The Mismatch - Coach Verno, Scared Simmons, and the Latest Trade Rumors

Episode Date: January 13, 2023

After discussing Verno’s newfound respect for coaches, he and KOC discuss Thursday night’s game between the Celtics and Nets, specifically looking at Ben Simmons’s lack of offensive production in the Nets' first game without Kevin Durant (09:40). The Thunder blew out the 76ers, and the guys discuss OKC’s talented team and promising future as well as Chip Engelland’s impact with players like Josh Giddey (19:40). The guys discuss the recent rumors surrounding John Collins and debate what the Pacers should do after Tyrese Haliburton’s injury (35:52). They last take a look at the standings and predict which teams on the outside still have a chance to make the postseason (51:44). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Bill finally gave the ringers Philly crew a podcast. I'm Ben Solac. And I'm Shield Capadia. That's right. Just a couple of Philly guys with a new space to fire off some Eagles takes, get caught up in the Sixers, Chaos, and more. We'll be coming to you twice a week on Sundays and Thursdays, plus bonus episodes whenever we get breaking news or Philly drama. Join the fun and follow the ringers Philly special now on Spotify.

Welcome to The Misfatch. I'm Chris Vernon and joined me to see us every Friday from The Ringer.com. It's Kevin O'Connor, A.K. Kevin O'O.com. Kevin O'Camer, Kevin O'Climber, Kevin O'Clymouth, Kevin O'Candyland, Kevin. Burnow, or should I say coach, Bruno? Oh, for goodness sakes. Tell us about it, Chris. So the reason Kevin is saying this, ladies and gentlemen, is because earlier today, when we were chatting back and forth, I said, I have to go to my daughter's basketball practice.

I'm coaching her basketball team. And so what happened was the season began. So they had sent out an email asking parents to coach and nobody could. And because of my schedule, it was going to be really hard for me to coach the team. And so I was like, all right, I'm probably not going to do it. So some guys from like the athletic department had to do it. Like if you don't get the coaches, then people that run the league have to do it. And it's a stress on them to have to do it.

And so I went to like the second game. And I think they're third grade girls. I think they scored six. Kevin, I couldn't take it. Maybe the most frustrated I've ever been in my life watching a basketball game. I couldn't take it because they're all pretty good. Their spacing was terrible. They didn't know, you know, how.

had to beat the defense. They didn't know it. And I'm like, so I went to him and I was like, I'll coach him. I said my coaching days were over completely, completely. I said, I'm not going to, I'm not going to do this anymore. Years ago, they needed a flag football coach for my son's team, and I did it. I coached his flag football team. He asked me to.

And so I did it. And we were great. but I would get so excited and I would get so down over it. It was just too emotional for me. I mean, there's nothing like, you know, because I wanted to coach them well enough for him to have the success, his friends to have the success, and for them to have a great time. And it was an unbelievable season, but I said,

I'm never doing that again. I gained a total new respect for coaches and what they do. And that was, I believe that was his fifth grade year. But I was like, this is not, I'm not, I'm not wired for this. Well, what I'm really not wired for is being a fan and watching it. Because I don't like yell, you know, as I'm not, I'm not one of those parents. I just sat there, but I'm like, I can't take this. And so.

And you knew they needed a coach. They already threw. Yeah. I mean, yeah, they just needed. They just needed somebody, right? They just needed somebody that could be there, that could run all the practices, that could get them ready. So you stepped up.

And I, and I did. And I got to tell you, it has been wildly rewarding. They are absolutely dynamite. Dynamite. They're great. Are you having a breakdown Marvin Bagley film with you? I'm not. I'm not having a breakdown of any film.

No, Marvin Bagley. No, no Marvin Bagley. No, Killian Hayes. No, Killian. Killian's been really good. You should show him, Killian. That pull-up jumper, the effort on defense, that's a good player to show them, Chris. I'll tell you this.

You know what's crazy, and this is something I did not expect. So I know my son and all of his friends are all in NBA, Jiam Moran, the whole thing. That has absolutely been true with the third grade girls. Nice. That's good. All of them. they're all in on it. They,

they were like, hey, uh, we saw the game last night. They all wanted to talk to me about the Spurs game that went last night. They're doing, they're doing like, this is wild.

They're doing like, I saw Luke Cornette come off the self-expansion. Yeah. They're like, they're like, how about that jaw dunk? And I'm like, what in the,

what? Like, it's great. It's great. Because I don't even know. I don't remember. I don't, I don't think.

there was like even that level of passion when my son was in third grade. But yeah, I'm back coaching. I got the whistle back out. Oh, yeah. Now, you want to hear something hilarious? Yes. I wear a whoop strap, okay?

So what it does, you know, are you aware of it? It shows you in strain what you are doing, right? So like, let's say I go out and I walk and run for 30 minutes, right? It'll give me a number associated with the strain. That hour of that game, game was one of the highest strains I have ever had. Wow. And I've been wearing it over a year.

If you see my heart rate going up and down, up and down, the entire hour. And all I'm doing is coaching. I ain't running. I'm not doing anything. It's wild. And I'm like, no wonder these guys look so old, so fast. The stress. Again, these guys, that's why.

I said I gained a whole new respect for coaches. Some guys are built for that. And I know we got a lot of coaches that listen to us, you know, and we'll message us on Twitter and whatnot. And whether it's on any level, high school coaches, college coaches, women's coaches, men's coaches, overseas coaches, the whole thing. There's a lot of coaches that listen to this show. And let me just say, I gained a whole new respect years ago when I was coaching the football team.

But now, basketball-wise, you want them to do so well. You try to drill into them what you want them to do. And in the end, it is out of your hands. And that is what, to me, is so hard. It's so hard that I can't really control it. You know, I could do what I could, I could say what I I can say I can try to tell them what to do. But I mean, I can tell my daughter, when they blitz you, don't pick up your dribble,

she's going to pick up her dribble. Like it's just, and I can't do anything about that. You know what I mean? Like, because it's just, it's all new. They're learning basketball as they're playing. But man, my heart rate, God, I'd love to see a coach wear one of those things. And just to see, maybe some of them. of them are just wildly even keeled.

But let me just say, on my behalf, I was not. I'd love to see the data at all. Which current NBA coach would be the most even keeled? Which one would have the highest, you know, variance in heart rate, you think? Of all the current NBA coaches. You know, they did this in golf and it was great. Oh, for like clutch moments, you know, big cuts and all that. Yeah, like a putt.

Yeah. Standing over a putt and they posted the guy's heart rate. And what they were. Do they still do that? When they were standing every once in a while. Yeah, okay. That's pretty good. I like it.

But they have done it before. It was great. Absolutely great. Yeah. And so anyway, yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I love doing it.

I love the connection with the kids. And I love the fun of youth basketball. You know what I mean? Like I do want. I'm around. it all the time now. And one of the things with my son's deal, not to get too in depth, but one of the things with my son's deal is, you know, there's times where we've gotten in the car and I'm like, yeah, I'm like, yo man, this is supposed to be fun. It's supposed to be fun.

That's what sports are supposed to be. It's supposed to be fun. There is no pressure. You don't have to win every game. I don't remember. You don't have to make every shot. Like, I don't remember any of my games from my childhood. I couldn't tell you who we beat. I couldn't tell you who we played. I couldn't tell you where. I couldn't tell you the name of the kids on my team when I was your age. But it just feels like even at a young age, it's all like life and death.

So the big thing is I want them to all love basketball and have fun. But man, the stress of it, sheesh. Can't do it. Coach Verna. Yeah, Coach Vernon. You're going to get your first wrinkle. When you come in town, if you're going to get your first wrinkle. If our season is still going on, you'll have to be my assistant.

I love Phil. That'd be fun. I watched Boston versus the Nets tonight. This is our first chance to see the Nets and what life's going to be like without Kevin Durant. And not a great team to start off against, considering the Celtics are the first team in the NBA now to 30 wins. They are first in offensive rating. They are first in net rating. They are second in three points.

They are second in points per game. And, you know, it is a close game. And then in the fourth quarter, Boston just strangled them out. Brooklyn ends up with 16 points in the quarter. And you wanted to see, like, kind of what it's going to look like. And there were a lot of things I thought that Brooklyn did where it was, okay, we're down a guy. We really got to do this together as a unit. And so assist number was good.

steals and blocks number were good, you know, trying to get activity and get out on fast breaks. And so they did some of that stuff. They got absolutely mutilated on the board, and that's going to be a problem with Durant out. And then you can't have nine for 24 from Kyrie Irving. Like, he's going to have to be amazing for them to be able to get wins, especially

wins against good teams. T.J. Warren had 20, but it took him 18 shots to do it. And then we get to the big one, which is Simmons. Yep, Ben Simmons. We did call the T.J. Warren thing. That was kind of an obvious one. That's right. Yeah, but Ben

Simmons, I don't know. 13 assist is great. Nine rebounds is great. They cannot have him going over three zero points. Especially like that play that's going to stick in people's mind from the fourth quarter where he's getting Luke Cornett contesting a layup and he passes out of it. I mean, you got to show some aggression, man. Well, and here's the other thing. Because of their just ridiculous lack of size, Gert, to be able to, you know, rebound. And Durrant, not only do they lose Durrant, they lose a Durant that was playing like 40.

minutes every night throughout the season and it only missed, I think, one game this season. You know, they need him to grab those nine rebounds and they need him out there with Claxton, but you got a problem on your hands when it comes to this. And I saw John Schumann put this in his notebook this week and I thought it was super interesting. He had this stat that said Claxton has had a terrific season and leads the league and field goal percentage, but has made exactly one shot from outside the paint. Can you believe that?

Yeah. That was shocking to me. Lack of space. Which is funny because with Claxton, he was shooting threes. Granted, it was a low three-point percentage back in college. You know, and when he first got into the NBA, the Nets tried that out. It was never developed for him. All right.

So continuing, Simmons has shot a career high, 59% from the field. Yeah, with everything at the round. rim. How many shots do you think he's made outside of the paint? I told you Claxton's got one.

Zero. Two? Oh, okay. Was his foot like just outside the paint maybe? I don't know. I got to go back

and watch them. I'm trusting John Schumer here. It says in today's NBA it's tough to play two guys who can't shoot from the perimeter unless you have

Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving who don't need a lot of space to score, which is absolutely true. Which is a tough problem to have. Because you need that. That's the challenge.

You need them defensively. Like Ben Simmons and. And rebound. Yeah, Ben Simmons and Roryso O'Neill did a solid job on Tatum tonight. And like, so you need them on one end of the floor, but you also need Ben Simmons to, despite Nick Clackson not spacing, still be an impact player on offense. And they, like, they had him screen more often tonight, you know, according to Second Spectrum, he set 14 on-ball screens.

You know, that, that ties a high since back in November. you know, in a game against the Grizzlies when he had 22. So he's had 14 once since then. So he hasn't been screening nearly as much as he did early in the season. Maybe we'll see more of that with Kyrie Irving. But that only works. But he doesn't even like roll? Yeah, I know.

He doesn't roll. Exactly. There's no aggression behind it. He screens and he kind of, you know, dilly dallys around. He doesn't move. He doesn't roll hard. Well, he does weirdly create great shots for other guys. And that was one of the things he did bring to the table.

3rd is a great number. He had some great passes in transition. You know, gripping down defensive boards, pushing the pace. You know, when Ben Simmons has the ball in transition, if you run, he'll reward you. That's where Ben Simmons is at his best. The issue is with him in the half cord. It always has been in Philadelphia. It still is the concern now with Brooklyn and Les Katie and Kyrie are on the floor

just drilling over 50% of their shots from the perimeter. So with Simmons right now, he's still going to excel in dribble handoffs. but if they're going to find a way just to get him going in those pick and rolls, if they're going to have him screening for Irving Moore, which he did tonight against Boston,

he needs to show his athleticism on those rolls to the basket. And whether it's in that situation or it's a cut to the rim, like, dude, you got to be going hard at the rim.

You can't be nervous about getting fouled. If you get fouled, so be it. But Simmons has always been an efficient score around the basket. And if he gets filed, like, whatever, man.

Like, you might clank both free throws off the brim. You might, but whatever. You have to be an aggressive athletic score around the basket like you have in the past. That shot in the fourth quarter against Cornett when he passed out of him, they turned it over. That was a lot like the one that kind of ran him out of town in Philadelphia. When he has an open layup underneath the basket, that one was a more open layup against Atlanta and the playoffs. The Cornette was there.

But it was just emblematic of everything that's been an issue with Simmons. for years, though, with the fear, the lack of aggression, that's what it needs to change from him more than anything else, and I'm not convinced that it will. Yeah, it just makes you wonder that this is the perfect opportunity if you weren't going to unlock that Ben Simmons offense. And again, we're not talking about, you know, him scoring 20 points every night.

But this guy was not a guy that wasn't scoring at all in the NBA. This guy, I mean, he plays, Like PJ Tucker now. He obviously does more. Six shots per game. Six shots per game. Just doesn't. His career average is 11, so nearly half.

And you wonder if we're done seeing him shoot the ball. But, well, I mean, maybe, like shoot the ball? Like jump shots, yeah, he should be done until he switches shooting hands and tries to work that out to see if it helps him. And it probably, and it might not. Like, it might not. But he, I remember back in the day, he, He, like a lot of guys that had troubleshooting, whether it was Westbrook or whether it was John Wall. He took him.

You know, what they did was guys would back off of them. Yeah, but the thing is, Chris, he saw those at like 33%. No, no, no, no, no. It was never an efficient shot. No, no, hold on. I'm saying, I'm saying what he would do is he would use that space effectively as a runway. And he's so big. Scotty Barnes was doing that.

man. Scottie Barnes is doing that for Toronto where he's doing what Simmons used to do, where they give him that space and he just, you know, he taxed that space, draws a help defender because he's going hard at the basket trying to score a layup, spins in for layup sometimes or kicks it out for three-pointers. He doesn't do that as much anymore. And I think that's, you're right, Chris. That's something that Simmons is going to have to do more often without Kevin Durant out there.

LeBronne probably scored 18,000 of his points like this because that was the thing. pick your poison. We'd like to keep this guy away from the rim. It's a bailout if he pulls up as a jump shoot. If we can make LeBron James a jump shooter, it's the best thing we could do that night. And he would just use that space as a runway, and you're dead. Are we picking too much on Simmons? Like him being a plus 10 tonight, leading the nets, or are we ignoring the plus minus considering all the bigger issues we're talking about the fact he's only made one one free throw since November 25th. He's only made one free throw.

It's just startling that the first night without Durant and they've got to replace 30 shots. He takes three. The lack of aggression going to the basket, the fear of getting filed. Yes, I agree with you. Because here's the thing. I just want to raise that point, Chris, because he was a plus 10. And I agree. I'm with you.

I get it. He wasn't plus 10 tonight. But in order for them, and all they've got to do is hold down the fort, just go 500 until you can get Durant back after a month. And in order to do that, I promise you, they ain't doing that offensive and just taking three shots every night. Because these teams, they won't beat good teams. They might get their wins over, you know, the softer part of their schedule when it comes.

Granted, OKC's tough. OKC will run you out of the gym if you let them. But, like, maybe that's a game you win. Correct. That's a tight. But you're talking San Antonio on Tuesday, just looking at their upcoming schedule. They could get that. I mean, possible.

Yeah. But they could also lose those games. Their schedule is pretty tough coming up, really. I'm glad you brought up OKC because they did it again. They ran Philly off the court. In Philly. 133 they put up. We just saw them put up.

You look at their month so far, Kevin. And it's kind of wild to look at what they've done throughout this month because they had that 150 that they put up on the Celtics, which was just, I mean, startled everyone. That was the first game of the new year. And then they lost in Orlando. Then they dumped Washington. They beat Dallas by double digits. I know Luca didn't play in that game. It took all 35 of Jimmy Butler's point for them to lose to Miami.

And now they just dump Philly at Philly. SGA's got 37, 8, and 6. And they had absolutely nobody that could guard him. And it's fascinating to behold, you know, Maxi was a dead man walking trying to guard him. And so it's like, well, then you look over and it's like, well, what are we going to do? Put Hardin on them. Like that is one of the downturn. turns. If you've got a guy that Maxi can't deal with, you really don't have, you know, if you want to have your

best players on the floor, it can get defensively exposed a little bit. And so he had tonight, as I mentioned, this 37, there are only two players in the NBA with 25 or more 30-point games. and they are Luca Donchich, who is leading the NBA in scoring, and Shea Gildes or Alexander. That's incredible. Special. And you know who else is special on that team? We've talked a lot about SGA.

Josh Giddy. He's really coming along, Chris. I love him. Ever since December 1st, shooting 41.9% from 3, 93.1% from the free throw line. He's been talking very often. And ever since training camp, way back in October, about the stuff he's been doing with Chip England. And as his shots improved over the course of the season,

he's been asked about it more, going into detail about some of the little things they've done with his hand, moving his thumb off of, like, touching the ball as he releases it, in a certain weird way he was doing it before, the mental aspect, you know, with a next shot mentality, not worrying as much. And, like, I'm buying it because Giddy's always had touched near the basket. He's always had touch on like those weird little layups and floaters and leaners and

you know, left-handed, you know, layups with English off the glass. He's always had touch. It's just the shot has never worked. And the fact, he's hitting over 90% of his free throws in addition to hitting pull-ups from mid-range, in addition to hitting three-pointers up to catch, if he continues, whether it's 40 plus percent or whether he settles down at 36, 37 percent, this dude has all NBA teams in his future because he's already, already a magnificent passer. He's such a good headsy defender. You know, like he's always in the passing lanes.

Great help defender. Giddy, SGA, Chet Holmgren as your current big three with all your other young talent, Jalen Williams, who might be on one of their all rookie teams this year, maybe all first team all rookie. Poku coming along earlier in the season as a guy, you know, with a spark club.

All right. All right. You had me. Okay. All right. I had a throw in. The first four. Okay.

And future picks, Chris. They have a mountain of draft picks coming up. Yep. So, I mean, this team's future is bright. I talked to somebody from Oklahoma City when they were in town, and I said, we're at half time of a game. And I said, man, I said, with the way SGA could collapse any defense, I said, y'all just need some shooters to go in them.

And the guy responded. And this is early in the year. Chip England. That's why we hired Chip In. Yep. And he's like, he could turn guys into shooters. You know, because a lot of those guys all knew Chip because Presti's guys, of course, are guys that he met in many cases in San Antonio.

A lot of San Antonio links. Yeah, there's a lot of San Antonio links. So they knew, right? I mean, they've seen guys that were not good shooters at all become. I mean, And Gwai Lennar, by no estimation, was looked at as a shooter coming out of San Diego State. And next thing you know, he is the best player in the world for a small amount of time. And a finals MVP and a guy that was, you know, best player, best team for sometime before the injuries hit him.

Guys like Tony Parker, another one with Keldon Johnson, or Carlin. and a current player for the Spurs has, you know, really worked with a lot over the years. We think about all those guys. I mean, look, I thought tonight there was a huge shot made by Derek White. You know what I mean? Like, you just think about all these guys that are around the league, you know, whether it's the Gary Neals or it's the Derek White or it's the anybody.

Anyway, there's all manner of players all over the NBA that have been worked with and made shots while they were in San Antonio. And so, yeah, they've got a very, very bright future. And look, even just this year, I think, and you would have think they would have gotten people's attention last year. But the psychology of a lot of these NBA guys is they'll really focus when they see the big names on their schedule or the national TV games on their schedule. And then they'll go in and they'll say, oh, we'll just, we'll crank it up in the fourth

quarter, and I talked about this earlier in the year. This year, more than any I can remember, I see teams doing the, we'll just crank it up in the fourth quarter, and instead they just get their ass kicked. Because some of these teams that are there with the bad records, the Orlando's, the San Antonio's, I think a lot of people took Utah and Indiana lightly to start the year, they will catch you this year. And in Oklahoma City's case, they'll bomb you out. We've seen them put up 150 and 133

respectively on Boston and Philly. That ain't easy to do. Not at all, man. For any team to do. You know, if you take them, if you take them for granted, if you just walk into the game and think you'll crank it up, when you need to. Because Philly was down, like in that game tonight.

They were down. They came out in the second half, and they started off on like a seven or 10 to one run. I mean, then it was like, oh, okay, they're going to turn it back up. And then the next week, Oklahoma City doesn't stop playing. And you know what? It's been on the top of my mind because I just witnessed three games like this

that Memphis played. Utah, San Antonio, and San Antonio. Like all three of those games, they made you win the game. They don't stop. They just keep playing. Like, they might be, quote, tanking. They might end up losing a ton of games. But when you are watching the games, they compete.

And they pop the ball around. And they don't have enough talent, but they make you win the game, right? They don't just lay down. No, not at all. No, they play hard. And Mark Dagnall coaches his ass off, too. Mm-hmm. And so you see some.

somebody like that. And I'll get Philly a little bit of a past because I think, I do think Maxie's a big piece to put back in. And I know he's been back for a little while now, but you're getting Maxie and then be back at the same time. You're getting the lineup kind of together. You've got a lot of those guys, you know, from Melton to Nyang to Montres. Like as the, as roles change and roles evolve throughout the season, sometimes that can be very difficult because you kind of got used to you're in the groove. Here's who I'm playing with. I just got used to playing with these guys. Now I'm back. Instead of playing 34 minutes tonight, I'm playing my 15 because the starters are all back in the lineup. And then the starters still

kind of got to get a groove back together. So I'm not saying that, you know, I'm just saying if a team is doing that, either getting used to each other without a major piece like Brooklyn was tonight or getting used to being back together as a full unit, it is unsurprising if it's not fully formed or they're not playing their best basketball. And I do think there's probably going to be a little bit of growing pain, just getting it all back together because they kind of got used to being really good the other way. I think you're, aren't we seeing that with Golden State? I mean, we are.

Now we got Steph back. But, I mean, they won those first, you know, games at home. And they're like, they've had some bad losses. Three in a row, right? Yeah, they had the loss against Detroit, Orlando, and then against the depleted Phoenix team. Yeah, I mean, those are bad losses. And they were really great at home, really great. But again, everybody's role changes.

You get used to playing that way. All right, now we got to change back. Well, now they go on the road. They got a little road trip coming up here. Tomorrow night. Five games. Tomorrow night's the game in. The Alamo Dome.

Yep, the new record for a crowd. So it's going to be 68,000, I believe it said. I think the article that I read said 68,000 that they were going to have in the Alamo Dome, which is 63. I'm sorry, 63.5. Tickets sold. The Bulls and the Hawks had 62,000 in the Georgia Dome in 1998. So this is going to be the most.

Now, the most for any game is. the All-Star game when it was at Jerry World. There's like a hundred and something thousand people there. But for a regular season game, this is going to be the most. And have you ever been to Almodo? No. I went. It's a huge sprawling, you know?

It does it feel like a gigantic arena when you're in there, like it looks like from the pictures. Look, you're going to be a part of history by going to this thing. So I don't want to talk anybody out. Look, they've already sold all the tickets, so it doesn't matter anyway. I went to the 2008 Final Four. Interestingly enough, Memphis played against a loaded UCLA team. Darren Collison, Russell Westbrook, Kevin Love, that team. I mean, they mauled them in that game.

And then they lost the most heartbreaking national championship in the history of the world. That was Kansas on the other side. Mario Chalmers, Dorell Arthur, that team. I was there for that. I was there that whole week. And that Memphis UCLA game, I didn't have a media pass downstairs. So I got tickets from, I don't know, either CBS or an agency or somebody. I can't remember how I got them.

Somebody that I met and they were like, yeah, we've got some extras. So they gave them to me and they were in the upper deck of the alma. Kevin, when I tell you it was, I might as well have been watching. I hate Dome Basketball. Like, detest it. It was her. I absolutely wish I would have watched it on television. To this day, to this day, I wish I would have watched that on television rather

than where I was. I mean, you have no idea how far away from the court I was. Yeah. No, I mean, it was, I was in the upper deck of the Alamo don't. And it's a little dinky basketball court in the middle of this massive arena. Oh, it sucks. Have you never been to a Final Four? No, maybe this year.

I'm thinking about doing it this year. I can't. It's just, look. Well, that's why I haven't even considered doing it for it. Oh, come on. You're Kevin O'Connor. You'll get an unbelievable seat. I don't know.

Unbelievable seat. I don't know. Yeah, you will. You'd get a good seat. I don't know. I mean, maybe. I hope so.

Back in those days, I was a local radio guy. I mean, they weren't, you know, they ain't taken care of me. And so I ended up just getting in this with tickets to go to the game.

But I hated it. I thought it was awful. Really. Just, I just don't like basketball and football stadiums. It's too small, man. That court looks so tiny.

and it's so far away. Well, I don't even love going to NFL games. I'm not a big live NFL game guy. I've also never had amazing seats at a football game, but, you know, I've had good seats, and I prefer watching at home for football. The only time I went to AT&T, I went to Jerry World last year for the first time,

in my life, in fact, for my birthday. I went with my family, and it was absolutely amazing, amazing. Are you, just the stadium was the rain. But not, now, to keep in mind, a week ago I went to an NFL game, or two weeks ago.

I went to Titans Cowboys in Nashville. Yeah, it was terrible. Terrible. I mean, the game wasn't any good. Are you already mentally prepared for Tom Bray to rip your heart out this weekend? So let me explain this to you real quick. This is a good aside.

I'm a professional sports fan, Kevin. Okay? And what that means is a professional sports fan can talk themselves into anything. So I have convinced myself fully that I am in a 100% win-win situation. If the team loses, there's absolutely no shame in losing to the goat.

Not at all. You wish you would have done better during the season, but you had to play them on the road. And if you lose to Tom Brady, there's no shame in that. And guess what? Mike McCarthy gets fired on Monday and Sean Peyton gets hired on Tuesday. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And if they win, then they won, and I'm happy.

But I really can't lose. I can't lose. It's now that Sean Payton's dragging this out. He ain't taking that Broncos job or that Carolina job or whatever. The Dolphins job was rumored, right? Yeah, until he finds out. But if the Cowboys lose, they'll run out McCarthy, and then he'll, that'll be the coach.

And then I'm set. There were rumors about Peyton and Brady still going, teaming up with the Dolphins. No. No, they won't too much. I guess it's possible. They've got the same agent. Yeah.

So, I mean, anything's possible, as Kevin Garnett once said. Yeah, but I don't. I've convinced myself that I can't lose. What's the worst thing that happens? That's a good mindset. You've got to be facing Tom Brady. Oh, come on. That team stinks.

Yeah, Tom Brady. They stink. Yeah, they, I mean, needed everything to beat that Carolina team who did knock off Sam Darnold. Might have to wait till next season for Tom Brady to win his eighth Super Bowl with the Raiders or something like that. Some news. Jake Fisher reported about Indiana being a buyer. So this whole season began with so much talk about,

Buddy Healed a Miles Turner, buddy healed a Myers-Tunner, and what's Indiana going to do? Yeah, there was uncertainty of whether Indiana was going to be a buyer or a seller. Yeah, and now they're the six-seed. And Jake Fisher, right, they want to be a buyer, go power forward hunting. Now, you do wonder how much this Halliburton thing changes that because he's got the busted elbow, he's got the busted knee, and they did the,

we will reevaluate in two weeks, which is always a bit ominous. As someone who covers this all the time, it's ominous because what you typically want in a situation is, here's what happened to the guy. Here's the diagnosis of what happened to the guy. Here is the scheduled amount of time that he is going to be out, that he's going to recover, and then he will do rehab,

and then hoping he can return by blank. But anytime they do, we're going to check back in on this in two weeks. My experience has been you don't check in two weeks and go, hey, lucky us, everything's great. I mean, the guy was out crutches last night, for God's sakes. Yeah, it's too bad. It feels like putting off, right? when you give yourself two weeks of time, and I know the article said that they were going to go around

and they're going to get other opinions, you know, that's another thing. I'm not crazy about having to go find other opinions of what's wrong with me because you would much rather be a little cleaner in this situation because that guy was going to be an all-star for the first time this year.

Hopefully still will be, and then, you know, they can replace him. But he was having a unbelievable season and has been the absolute catalyst for why they have been, I think, now with the Utah, you know, kind of going the wrong way so fast or right way, in your opinion. But losing a lot of games, Indiana's been the best story of the NBA in terms of a team that we did not think would be where they are right now. No doubt about it. And at this point of the season, that Halliburton injury comes at a really unfortunate time. Because if they do indeed and intend on becoming buyers, the one silver lining, Chris, is like Miles Turner having a career season. Fisher also had in that report how they've kind of, you know, stalled out, you know, Turner wants more money.

They're not offering it right now. Over this next, you know, however long Halliburton's out, we're going to find out a lot about how Miles Turner produces without his. Haleburn's playmaking brilliance out there. And that could help dictate what Indiana wants to do and what Miles Turner wants to do. If he says, you know what, I'm going to walk away and wait until free agency. If he keeps crushing it, despite not having his

all-star point guard out there, that could change things in these contract discussions as well. Never mind what happens before the deadline with the Pacers' intentions to potentially be buyers. Well, and as Jake kind of talks, about that they were looking for a power forward to go alongside Turner. John Collins' name has been out there for two years now, it feels like. And another name that was kind of thrown in there was PJ Washington,

which is interesting because that team is legitimately awful. That's a guy that I thought was a rock solid power forward, who might actually be better if given a new lease on life. I could see PJ Washington going somewhere and like being better than what he is right now. Yeah, he might just need to need a change of scenery. Yeah, change the team. Yeah, coaching staff, all that, yeah. Yeah, and so that's an interesting one.

And I guess the names that are kind of thrown out there, they've got a bunch of draft capital. Duarte. Yeah, what are we, where are you at on Duarte? I hadn't thought about him in so long. Doesn't he feel like he's out of the picture at the moment after getting drafted, just last season. I know. He's the lottery pick in 2021,

but his shot has fallen apart this season. He's not performing well with limited minutes off the bench. He goes from averaging nearly 30 minutes per game down to 16 minutes per game. He's buried on the bench behind Matherin and healed and other guards

and wings on the roster. He just doesn't seem like he's fitting as part of their future right now. And the tough part is for Indiana, he's already 25 years old. He was an older rookie draft pick. He was selected with the intentions of being someone who could help your team

right away. And that just hasn't happened. That hasn't manifested. That shows like sometimes when it comes to the draft, like you draft older, it doesn't always mean your guys ready. Everybody's on a different developmental trajectory. So with Duarte, I don't think he has a ton of value around the league

right now. No. I mean, it would be, you'd have to find somebody that was high on him in the draft. He's the throw in. He's the throw in. That's what he is. He's the sweetener. Chris is what he used in the deal. I get it. And look, all I'm saying is sometimes,

sometimes, those throw-in type of guys, you do end up ruining the day that you got rid of them. Once upon a time, guess you got thrown into a deal? Chris Middleton. Yeah, sure. Of course. You're 100% right. You're right, Chris. You're right. And that's

why a team would say, if they're negotiating, they're not going to say, we want Duarte. They're going to say, you know, we need Duarte and the steal for ownership to approve it. They're not going to reveal that they loved them in the draft, that they actually really want him and they're still high on him. He's just a sweetener.

Like, his value is probably equal to a future top 10 protected first round draft pick. That's probably like around what the value is for him, if that. No way. You ain't getting a first rounder. No, no, I'm just saying. Oh, as a ass hat. Yeah, it's like, you know, it's as if you're getting a distant future top, you know,

lottery protected pick. pick where it's, you know, it's not going to be any high pick. There's no chance of it. It's kind of wild how fast, right? He might have made, he might have made the all-rokey team last year. He was all-rokey. He was. He was a rookie, yep.

A second team all-rokey. Yeah, it's kind of crazy, right? Yeah. That's what I'm saying. Like, I don't think his value is dipped enough to be, you know, just a second-round pick, maybe a high second-round pick in terms of equal value. Do you think that that him and, and draft assets,

that's not enough for Collins. It's probably, that's like a PJ Washington deal. If you're Indiana, do you want John Collins with Miles Turner? Is that a fit you like? It sounded like they did.

But do you, but do you like that fit? If you're, if you're analyzing that deal for the Pacers. I like John Collins. I like John Collins too, but I don't,

man, I could see John Collins finishing a lot of Halliburton L-EUPS. Good. It'd be a really different dynamic than the Subonis Turner front court. Yeah, college can shoot too. Yeah, not this season as much, but.

But there's a sample size. Yeah. He's not, he doesn't have to be next to the basket to be affected. Yeah, I mean, this season he's at 23%, but three years prior, he was at 39%. Yeah. I mean, like I said, there's a sample size to me. Yeah.

Well, I don't know. Maybe that goofy finger he's going to, got every once in a while somebody posts a picture of that thing and I'm like, God, I don't know how you do anything with that. It's like a mangled hand. Yeah. Maybe, I don't know, maybe that's the answer for the 23%. Is it a shooting hand?

It could be right. Yeah, it was a shooting hand, I believe. You see that thing? Yeah, that was last season, right? People type in John Collins' hand. Look at it. Oh, yeah. I just looked it up.

July, yeah, picture from last July. Scary, bro. Yeah. He injured it in Detroit. So I wonder what his shooting numbers are since that game in Detroit. I kind of want to look this up now since last season.

That's interesting, Chris. I had a thought about that in quite a while. I hadn't remembered the finger until just now from last season. I only did when you said he's 23%. Okay. So last season, that night in Detroit, he was two of five from three.

He played two more games. He was 0 for 8 from 3. And then in the postseason, he was 36%. So slightly below the averages. And 50% from the free throw line. And then this season, his free throw numbers are near career averages, 80.7% and has not affected him there. But maybe behind the arc from distance, it is affecting him.

That's possible. For people that don't know what we're talking about, just do you can Google image that? And you'll be like, ugh. Basically, his ring finger on his right hand has like a huge bulge. Yeah. Like right on the joint, kind of. Yeah.

It looks freaky. And for what it's worth, his career numbers, or the last three seasons from mid-range, from 16 feet and out to the three-point line, 46%. This season, 33%. So his numbers are way down from mid-range, from three, but not the free-throw line, not near the basket. All right. So if I'm trading for him, I've got to get him a new finger.

A new finger, yes. A new finger. Yes. Yeah. Speaking of Collins, there was that, you know, everybody was goofing about that story that came out that they wanted like a Gobert or Mitchell return. Everybody's like, oh, come on.

It's ridiculous. Stop, stop this public negotiations. Okay. Jake Fisher had in his article, Utah, discussing a package with them with Beasley and Vando, Vanderbill. And I'm thinking to myself, okay, look, I like John Collins.

I would love to have Malik Beasley and Jared Vanderbill. Like, what? Am I crazy here? Like, I like both those guys as, you know, again, they're role players that know their role players. And to me, those guys have real value in the league. If I'm trying to be a really good team. And the other thing is Malik Beasley shoots like a thousand threes.

So everybody needs those guys that can stretch the floor like that and that are like willing to shoot them. I've always been a Malik Beasley fan. And I have really liked Vanderbilt over the course of the last couple of years, especially that kind of breakout that he had with Minnesota. Just hustle, energy. Like, I don't know, those guys, to me, I was kind of surprised that it's a package with those two

because I think if you package those two together, get some pretty good assets. I think you'd get something pretty good. And I guess John Collins is good, but I think, I don't know. I don't know, maybe I'm crazy. Would you rather have, wouldn't you, would you rather have Beasley and Bando?

I mean, I think it's worth considering the other aspect in that report by Fishery. He said, although Utah has lobbied Atlanta for a first round pick in addition to Collins. So they're asking for draft capital on top of John Collins. At that point, it gets ridiculous. Yeah, at that point, you're like, okay, if you're the jazz, I understand doing this for sure. Yes.

I mean, you're not, look, you ain't getting a first rounder back in a Beasley vando deal from anybody. With Collins. Yeah, much less with Collins. I'm saying you wouldn't get a first rounder for those guys. You might. Nah. Yeah, maybe Beasley. Maybe you might.

I think for Beasley and Vanderbilt, yeah. I'd want a first round pick back for those two. Not with players. Not with John Collins. I mean, we're going to look up in Danny Hange. We're going to look up in the 2007 draft is going to be Utah, Utah, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma City, Utah, Houston, Houston, Houston, Oklahoma City. Like, that's just going to be what the draft looks like. When we look up in 2020, 27, it's just three scenes that can get everything.

There's no tell it how many. he's going to eulate after all this is said and done. Maybe so. Maybe he can. I mean, hell. If you can get five for Rudy Gobert, I guess you can get one for Vando and be asleep. Other guys that he mentioned,

you know, it's fun that this stuff is kind of getting going. The trade talk was that Rishon Holmes is available. Your guy, because he hasn't really been in the rotation in sack, and that the bucks have been shopping Grayson Allen around. I mean, it's not that surprise. Our old friend, Chris,

Ashon Holmes. Yeah, old friend of the mismatch. You know who I heard? Another old friend of the mismatch. I heard Mo Bamba is another guy that could get moved. Oh, really?

Yeah, like Orlando's not giving him a lot of minutes right now, which is disappointing for me. You know, I love Bamba, see him possibly get moved, but I kind of wish he hadn't re-signed there. He's just buried on the depth chart. Bull, bowl is taken over.

Wendell Carter. carved out his role. They have Ben Carroll, obviously. Isaac's playing in the G-League, right? Yeah, not a lot of opportunity for him right now. So maybe, like, with some of these bigs that are available on the market, maybe the team that misses out on John Collins,

maybe they go for a Mobamba type for a lower price point. I can certainly see him, you know, he's not going to be somebody's starting center, but he's a guy that can be very valuable as a second stroke center. Yeah. Right.

I mean, you could have a long career doing that. Gorky Jank has had value for a long time. Gorky Jinks still getting checks, right? He's still getting checks. You know, be a good teammate. Keep your head on straight and be productive when you get your opportunities. Oh, for sure. I mean, he's, they got, they just, the problem, look, his problem is they got 20 guys that are all 610 and over.

Oh, exactly. They don't be in size. But when Bomba's been on the floor, I mean, last two seasons, he's shooting 38% from three. His rim protection numbers are really good. I mean, like, the hustle is not a concern. And like the hustle early in his career,

when like Bomba was disappointed, the thing that, you know, pissed me off the most was the inconsistent effort. His effort's been better since last year. So I think if he gets a new chance with the new team, I'd love to see what he looks like. It's like you just said earlier with PJ Washington, Chris. I'd love to see him get a fresh, you know, clean slate on a new team.

I'd love to see Mo Obama get that too. And especially if it's a winning atmosphere, see what he can do there with a bunch of energizers around him. Yeah, I mean, because for anybody that's there, I'll never forget seeing him get interviewed in college. And I'm like, this guy should be the president. Yeah. He went to slow.

His interviews are unbelievable. Yeah, yeah. He's so measured and smart. All right. Standing. We're really at, you know, some of these teams have. played more than 41 now, and I know we did a lot of mid-season stuff earlier in the week. We were talking about individual players and awards.

Standings. It's kind of where we stand, right at the midway point. Boston and first, Brooklyn and second, Milwaukee, and though they have struggled recently, they're still third. Cleveland, four, Philly 5, New York, 6, and then the play-in in the east. Indiana, Miami, Atlanta, Chicago. Okay. So are there any of the teams that are below that line that you think will be in the play in?

Toronto, Washington, Orlando, Detroit, Charlotte. I guess Toronto would be the chance, right? They had a win tonight. They won by double digits against Charlotte. maybe Washington get bail back let's yeah like let's say

Chicago decides to pull the plug did you see that Levine shot the other night down three late in the game he takes it too strange if Chicago decides to pull the plug and blow it up as they damn well should maybe maybe Washington's got an opportunity

to sneak up Orlando could they stumble into the plan could you see that Chris they stumble in by accident I mean it just so depends on any chance of that I think you would have to If

If Chicago and Toronto If Chicago and Toronto became sellers Then they get a shot Yeah, then they'd have a shot. Which I don't think they want a shot. I think they want to be young and competitive, not young and in the plan. It's hard to see Indiana

staying around. If this guy's on a long house. If this guy's on crutches and it's two weeks and it might be a lot longer. If it's not a lot longer, longer they'll stay around. But if it if it is a lot longer than no, I think they'll, they'll fall. How? Well, just, just two weeks. When you take him out of it? I know, but they don't have, look, they're there because of the spectacular. I mean, they do not have the talent to hold down

the fort. I'm with you. I'm just saying it's only two weeks. I'm just saying it's just two weeks. Until they reevaluate the situation. Of course, but if he's out for two months, then yeah, They're going to free fall down the standings without Halliburn. Halliburn has been unbelievable. It'll be hard for them to get wins. Halliburne is so central to what they do. He's like top of the league and touches per game. He runs everything on their offense.

I could see them be the one dropping out and then like maybe Toronto ends up in there. Which by the way, wouldn't be the worst thing in the world for Indiana. Like for some of these teams, like let's just be on. that's making the plan, you get slapped around in the postseason. Yes, it's cool. You get the experience, you get the reps. But for Indiana, you already know what you get with some of this young talent. If Aliburton has to miss two months, three months, it's not the worst thing in the world.

And maybe they'll do better than I think they will without them. In the Western Conference, it's Denver, Memphis, New Orleans. Sacramento at the midway point in the season, it's four. Sacramento is a home court advantage team. Pretty cool at the halfway point of the season. Then Dallas, the Clippers, and then the play-in teams, Phoenix, Golden State, Utah, Minnesota. Portland and the Lakers are the first two on the outside looking in. And then the Thunder, who we talked about earlier.

Thunder, just a game back from Minnesota right now. So you got to think Utah has fallen out because, I mean, it's the trajectory. They probably will, yep. And they're going to be a team that's very active. Danny will be very active at the trade deadline. They'll probably get worse at the deadline. And as this season, the farther the season has gone on after their unbelievable start where they were the best story going,

you know, they've come crashing back down. So they'll fall out. Phoenix is the fascinating one. I mean, they've got to get poker back. And, you know, but the idea that Phoenix and Golden State are two teams that could be in the play in. I mean, Golden State, I do not think they'll be in the play in, but they have been so bad on the road with or without Curry.

They just, it's unheard of how bad they are on the road. And so they got to get that fixed. And the truth of the matter is, Kevin, they were not very good last year in that second half of the season. And then they hit that run in the playoffs. So I think it's going to be interesting. They're sitting right about 500 right now. I don't know how high Golden State can get in this deal.

It's hard to see them becoming a home court advantage team, right? Yeah. I mean, home court is difficult. I think it certainly went on the road. I mean, I don't think it's hard to see them becoming. It's just difficult, but they're only two and a half back, Chris. It's not like impossible. They're two and a half back from Sacramento.

Yeah, from home course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. No, it's not a pie now. All these teams are bunched up. Yeah. All these teams are bunched up. But, I mean, they have to do, they have to play much better, certainly on the road than they've played thus far.

For sure, big, big test coming up for them. They get some road games. It's some easy games. San Antonio, Chicago, Washington, but then they close at Boston at Cleveland. So starts off easier, gets tougher. Can you imagine if they were eight in your freaking Denver

or your Memphis and that's the eight one? Yeah. Wild to think about it. Certainly they should have a better record than the 20 and 21. Speaking of that, Chris, I was on Rice-Sariki Sanchez this week with Spike Eskin and we were talking about, you know,

how much, you know, the NBA playoffs when it comes to seating right now. Like, these games matter. They matter, but what you just said there about if they're the eight in Denver or Memphis, whoever has to face them in the first round, don't you think if you're the one or two seed after an 82 game regular season,

this is what Spike and I talked about, that you should have a greater reward up top other than just, you know, four games to three games. I get a game seven in my home court if it gets there. Yeah, like Spike said, maybe it should be five home games to two road games. And I said, well, what about having the top seeds

choose their first round opponent? There's so many different ways you could organize it or think of incentives for the top seeds, but don't you feel like for these teams, like we're talking about, like Draymond Green a couple weeks ago says it doesn't matter what seed we are. We can beat

anybody, we can get through anybody. That's true, but why not make it even harder for those teams that are a six, seven, eight seed? and reward the teams that end up, you know, winning the regular season. That can make the regular season matter more. Yeah, it can. I guess I would be more inclined to have the discussion about it

if it's been a problem. We've not had a problem with it happening. But just because there's no problem doesn't mean it can't be better. The problem is that Oklahoma City slaps around Philadelphia tonight, and it really doesn't matter. Well, look, do you? you think that it would matter if you and the TV ratings have pretty much been half in the past half decades so your opinion your opinion would be that the Oklahoma City game matter that

the Oklahoma City Philly game would matter I look when you've got how do you make a game but how do you make it matter more is the question and like I'm just saying if it if it comes to like Philly being the four or the five is actually a really big difference instead of being the one or the two. Like a big difference. Not just, okay. You have to go on the road. I say this is someone who's like a Cardinals fan.

Like, I'm not sitting around in the baseball season, thinking about where they are and where they're going to have to, like, the standings and all. It's just not, the season's so long that it's, I don't think that there would be some Philly fan tonight being like,

oh my God, now we might not get the five home games because we lost this game to Oklahoma City. Like, I just don't, I don't think that, like, for instance, tonight would, that doesn't, wouldn't make any difference. So maybe that speaks to really just the length of the season. Yeah, it's just hard to get 82 games for there to be a passion about it. But look, the truth is this.

I do think that the NBA, the NBA is different. It's more like the NFL in the. that, like say with hockey and with baseball, I care about my teams and I do not have a great awareness of what is going on elsewhere. And I don't watch random games of other teams much. You know what I mean? Like if you told me, you know, maybe the Angels are playing the Yankees. and so Tautani and Trout and Judge on the other team. And it's on. It's just like in the background.

I'll watch it because I'm a sports fan and I'll watch it. But I don't go out of my way to watch any of those. Like the same way. And I know I'm doing a NBA podcast. But honestly, if we weren't recording tonight or I wasn't doing this podcast, I would have watched Boston Brooklyn. Yeah. I would have.

Right. So do a good job on that. But so the other sports have become like hyper localized. And that's kind of what fascinates me. So the truth is this, there are people in Philly that were mad about that game tonight. They were. I guess the trick I would say is getting more hardcore fans in the local markets. Because those are the only people that are going to give a crap on a game in, game out basis.

Totally fair. They're the only ones that are going to care. are the ones that live and die with one team, you know. And so getting the maximum amount of people to care about individual teams in the local market that I think that makes the regular season matter more. Because you can get to the point where, like, you know, we could wrap it up by how we started the show. I walked into a practice and of third grade girls, all of which had an awareness of John Morant dunking on the Alka portal last night. well, that's just because he's that guy now, you know? And like I said in passing there, how TV ratings have fallen over the years, but social media is way up.

Way up. And I'm sure a lot of those girls saw that clip, not from SportsCenter, not from anything like that. They probably not even probably local Memphis TV. They probably saw it from TikTok. 100%. Right? That's probably where they saw. Or YouTube.

YouTube. Yes. They're on that YouTube shorts now. YouTube shorts are really popular. That's, yes. So I will tell you, as a parent, they kicked all the kids off TikTok. They kicked them all off. Yeah.

Like, even the private channels. So I, at one point, they begged, beg to beg to beg. I'm like, I'll let you have one with you and your six friends. But the thing's private, nobody can follow you. I don't want no, you know. But if you just want to make the videos because you like the videos, go ahead. and like got the message. And I mean, I okayed it.

I set it up like just so she could have some fun with it. And I was watching all the what she was doing. They're all goofy stuff with her friends. And it was so her and her five little friends could watch each other's little videos, but they kicked all of them off. Maybe rightfully so. I mean, again, I can't. Who kicked them off?

Oh, TikTok did. Yeah, yeah, the age thing. I mean, I didn't try to skirt anything. I put it in her age. Okay. And yeah, anybody. under whatever the age was. Huh.

You know, and I had all the restrictions on the thing and whatever. TikTok even had like an age minimum. So all those kids that she like followed because I mean, I could see who she liked to watch.

Yeah, yeah. And if I thought that if I monitor all of it, um, as to not have them watching crap, I don't want them seeing. Sure. But all those kids,

they all ran the YouTube shorts. Oh. Yeah. So that's where she had to go find them. Reels, Instagram, too. That's where she had to go find them. So that's what they're on now. But yes, I guarantee you my daughter

saw John Morant's dunk on YouTube shorts. You should ask him next practice. You know, like, hey, where'd you find the clip? Oh, TikTok. Oh, YouTube, shorts. Yeah. IG Reels. Vertical video.

It's the way. Yeah. Well, and truth be told, a lot of them, the game would just be on in their house. Because, I mean, basketball families and all that, yeah. Yeah, well, look, the number one team in the West. Yeah, they are.

Well, actually, actually, they're tied with the nuggets. Trust me. I need the nuggets to lose because I have to take a screenshot before they lose every night when it says they're number one. All right. Good for the show today. Thank you to our executive producer Jesse Lopez as always. Don't pitch it us for not talking about Dallas, L.A.,

because we're recording this late Thursday night. and that games at a half time and I think Dallas is up right now Double digits anyway So for those of you that are going to inevitably be like What did you talk about the Dallas?

We've talked a ton about them Dallas and L.A. We'll talk about them, I'm sure, next week. Thank you to Jesse Lopez. Kevin. I'll talk to you next week. Have a good one, everybody.