The Mismatch - Congrats to Kansas, Playoff Standings, and Gearing Up for a Wild Finish in the NBA

Episode Date: April 5, 2022

Verno and KOC begin the show congratulating Kansas for beating North Carolina in the NCAA men's national championship before discussing whether any players elevated their draft stock in the game (02:02). Going into the last week of the season, the guys take a look at the current playoff bracket. They dive into the wild stat about Donovan Mitchell and Rudy Gobert (19:35). Is there any hope for the Lakers as they fight for the final playoff spot in the West (27:17). They next go through the standings in the Eastern Conference. Who is the easier first-round matchup, Bulls or Raptors (36:50)? What are the chances that the Nets will lose in the play-in (48:28)? And can Joel Embiid sway KOC’s vote for MVP (53:57)? Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Listen now. Welcome to The Mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon and joining me as he does every Tuesday from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, a.K. Kevin O'Bomberma, Kevin O'Bomberto, A.K., Kavanaugh, Kevin O'Colnsk, Kevin O'Cannibal, Kevin O'Cannibus, Kevin O'Han. How are you doing this Tuesday morning, my friend? I'm doing great, and it's kind of crazy that as we talk... This Tuesday, we're in the last week of the season. I mean, a week from today, we are going to be talking about playing matchups,

because those are going to be going on April 12th through the 15th. And then, of course, two weeks from this past weekend, the weekend of the 16th and 17th, that's when the NBA playoffs are going to begin. And it's going to be fast and furious to the finish line, Kibb. There's 12 games going on tonight and a ton to still be decided in these playoff standings. Before I get to that, part of the reason there is a monster schedule tonight in the NBA is because there were zero games last night because they didn't put anything up against the national championship. Congrats to Kansas and Kansas fans. they won the national title,

the biggest come from behind halftime deficit. And it's crazy because in the first half, one of my buddies texted me and he's like, man, if you just watched North Carolina in the tournament,

you think they're one of the best teams ever. And I was like, yeah, except for like those 10 minutes versus Baylor. And the same kind of thing goes with Kansas. I mean, you can watch them kind of struggling. with Creighton. It's not like they mashed Providence.

You know, they didn't have a really tough road to get where they were. They ended up, you know, playing against Miami. And then there was about that 10-minute stretch. And it extended, really, the whole half against Miami, where they just looked devastating. But I really didn't know what to make of it. It did kind of feel like North Carolina with their achievements was a little bit of a team of destiny, but not meant to be Kansas.

ends up getting the national title. I know you're very high on one of their draft picks. Do you think that this Final Four slash national title game helped anybody's draft stock immensely? Not really. Like, Baji and Brown, Christian Brown, were the two guys that really have a chance to be first round picks on the Kansas side of things in that game.

And, I mean, Brown had a pretty good second half, transition buckets and it was good to see him light it up. Attacked a lot of Caleb Love, the guard of North Carolina, who had a really tough night after some great moments in the tournament. And then Abaji, maybe he's a mid-first-round pick already. I'm not so sure that his stock has thoroughly changed, that he has the skeptics around the NBA,

he has the supporters around the NBA. But that's true with almost every prospect after the top 10, 15 this year's class. it flattens out pretty quick in terms of how teams are valuing a lot of these guys, it seems. Yeah, it's hard to tell. It's hard to tell with him because there's certainly glimpses where. Like that's my talent. There's six five long, good versus.

He's got those. Yeah, he's got the glimpses. You know, you can watch him sometimes and you go, yeah, I could see. If somebody was, if one of these talent evaluators in the NBA, came to me and said, no, no, no, no, no, you're off on him. He could be really special. He's that kind of like middle ground

where if somebody, I could be persuaded by somebody that had a fervent belief he could be special. On the other hand, I could also be persuaded by the guy that says, that's just a role player in the NBA. He's fine. You know what I'm saying? Like, he is, it's going to be interesting to see what happens with him. I'm not convinced of either at this point, but there's no question. I feel like you watch

him and you could come away with either of those opinions. And that's not true of everybody where somebody could just tell me he's a whatever. He's going to be, he's going to play in the NBA, but he's going to be a role player. He's fine. Or somebody could say, no, no, no, no, no. watch his game against so-and-so, you know, if he gets in the right system, this kid can really be special. Like, I don't know. I can see it kind of both ways with him. Yeah.

I mean, ultimately with a guy like that, I think that the best odds are just he's going to be a solid role player. Yeah. I mean, I'm not sure he is the shake or the handle necessarily to be a go-to guy at 6-5. But, you know, with his size, his motor, his toughness, his improved three-point shooting, if the three-point shooting is for real after some inconsistent years in college, then he's going to have a good long career as one of those three-and-d type of guys. And that's good.

I mean, that's great to have. You want to have guys like that on your roster who make the right decision, who play hard. And that's what Abaji is. And for Kansas to have that comeback, my goodness. Congratulations to them. But also, what a run for North Carolina, too. Getting past Duke. I mean, it's comical.

That's how Coach Kay's career ends. It's so hilarious, Chris. It's sad, but also, like, Like for him, you know, after his long career, like it's disappointing. But for fans, non-Duke fans, it's just kind of funny as well. I made the, I made the joke the other night that like his retirement was going to be shorter than Tom Brady's. And I was thinking, I was thinking as that's playing out, I'm like, man, if Carolina wins this thing and he has to just marinate that until the day he dies, like he's not going to be able to take it. It's going to be, it's going to be, John Shire's going to be Conan O'Brien, right?

Jay Leno's going to say, he's going to get Jay Lenoed. I want my spot back. Yeah, he really might. He really could. False alarm, John Shire. I can't. Hey, look, I hope you understand. I know we did all this celebration and everything, but we're running it back.

It's kind of like how Tom Brady's last pass with the Patriots is an interception. Yeah. He didn't retire after that, though. He went to the Bucks, and then he won a football. Coach K, is he really going to retire? I guess he is. I'll tell you what, though. 50 and 50 in his lifetime against North Carolina,

that's pretty cool. Yes. I mean, if you're coach K, that's the part you have to sit back at and say, you know what, do I really want to come back just to get back in North Carolina, maybe? Well, because then what a career?

What if you go? What if you lose a couple of them, and now you're 50 and 52. Now you can't retire. And next thing you know, you're coaching it to your 98. years old. All to get back

over 500 against North Carolina. I got to get back going 500. I can't leave like this. Shiner retires before you do. That's right. They just keep ruining it. Yeah.

You know. What a career. Tough on the other side for Hubert Davis, who will inevitably learn from this. But you never like to see guys getting Doc Rivers comparisons in the big moment.

because he was this live action, Tracy, this live action. There was a lot of Doc Rivers energy, you know, run it up and down the court. And then there was some Doc Rivers energy in the second half with a, just a monumental collapse. Was that something on Twitter during the game where people call him Doc? A little Doc Rivers-esque, you know. He's very animated.

He was very loud with this Tracy Wolffson. The Candice Bukter's tweet says, why does Heber Davis do his best Doc Revers impression for his in-game interviews? Yeah. Others say Josh Josh I believe. Heber Davis sounds like Doc and warm-ups.

Okay, I see all the tweets. You did see that. Well, especially because, you know, when he grabbed that microphone at that first time out, it's live action, Tracy, it's live action, Tracy, you know. And Grant Hill said, I thought we were listening to Hulk Hogan. Unfortunately, he did a Doc Revers' impression in the second half, not through speech, but rather through strategy. Wasn't WrestleMania?

Supposedly, I didn't watch any of it. But I saw some tweets saying it was one of the best ones in years. Oh, it was amazing. Really? Amazing. Yes. It was great. It was great.

Seriously, that's cool. Yes. Why? Why wasn't it so amazing? I don't know much about wrestling. The matches, Stone Cold Steve Austin coming bad. Pat McAfee on Twitter. Pat McAfee.

That was hilarious. I mean, show stealer. Yeah. He was amazing. Him drinking the beer is he's like on the ground. So good. It knocked out. It's great.

So funny. Absolutely great. He's a natural. He's so good. So we got 12 games going on tonight. We've got a ton of games this week. And as I mentioned, there's a million things to be decided. This is what we know for sure.

Phoenix is going to be the number one seed in the West. And as of now, would play the winner of Pelicans and Spurs. Well, that's kind of the matchup right now. Right? and then obviously those teams would have to win after that. But that's kind of how it lines up. Whereas Memphis is the two-seat and the wolves and the clips are going to have to play each other. Now, the clippers are locked in at eight.

And so, you know, as of now, it's the wolves and the clippers. But there's a slight possibility that the wolves could jump the Nuggets and push them down. And then it would be Nuggets versus the Clippers playing against. each other. And so we really don't know. We don't know who Phoenix is going to play. We don't know who Memphis is going to play. The only thing we know for sure is that the clippers are locked in at 8th.

And then it gets all muddled because the warriors need one more win to ensure that they're a top four seat. And they would lose a tiebreaker to Dallas if they end up tied. So that one, you know, as long as they get one more win, they're going to ensure themselves home court advantage in the first round. But I think it kind of feels likely that Dallas is going to jump them. Just the fact that that tiebreaker may really come into play. Because Dallas owning the tiebreaker against them is a big, big advantage for sure. And so what's wild is started off this season, Golden State, just unbelievable

Steph Curry, the MVP, and look how things have changed. Now we're to the last week of the season, and we're talking about how they need one more win just to ensure themselves getting home court advantage in the first round. Yeah, it's something else how everything developed this year. The Lakers outside the plan,

the Warriors collapsing, mid-season with all their injuries and everything. These teams still get a shot, though, ultimately. They still have a chance, the Warriors said, it's not the Lakers. But like you said, these last three games here, Lakers, Spurs, Pelicans, for the Warriors, Pistons, Blazers, Spurs, the Maverick. That's the problem. Yeah.

You're playing three teams that are, like, their seasons on the line. Yeah, exactly. See, just the way it breaks, if you looked at that, you know, even a couple of months ago, you'd have been like, oh, well, they got an easy schedule to end it, but it just so happens because of this play-in situation, they're facing three teams that need those games so badly. And on the other hand, I think they desperately need to win, Kevin. And one other quick thing, though, with those games, because the Warriors faced the Spurs second on Saturday. and then on Sunday, do you have the Mavs facing them?

It's possible that Sunday game for the Spurs actually isn't a must-win. It's already locked in to the 10-spot. So that could be a rest day for the Spurs, and then that helps up the Mavs. Yeah, it could be. And they staggered all of these kind of on purpose, you know,

and I know this just because of this schedule where I am, Saturday and Sunday, those games, so the Grizzlies play Pelicans, Celtics to end it. Those were TBDs. Those until just recently, until I didn't find out until yesterday

when those games are going to be. Yeah. And I think they wanted to stagger them as to prevent if they could. Teams from looking up at the scoreboard and then figuring out what they wanted to do based upon the way things were playing out. If it was possible to prevent that. But that Dallas Golden State thing, it may be the biggest thing to monitor, Kiv, simply because, as we talked about a few weeks ago, the reason that matters is because four feeds into one.

So you just got to get away from that. And, you know, I love this Grizzly's team. but you want to try to stay away from Phoenix as long as you possibly can and if you're Dallas, that is true and if that is and if it's Golden State, it's true. So that one, oddly, that one might change the playoffs more than anything.

Who would you rather have in that second round matchup as the Grizzlies, they're the two seed right now? Would you rather be on a road to face the war? Warriors or the Mavericks. The Warrior. You'd rather face the Warriors at this point. I said that on the real ones months ago. So you'd rather face the Warriors and the Mavericks at this point with the level

Dallas is playing with Luca averaging like 31 points, 10 at rebounds. It's all matchups. Four months now. It's all matchups. Now, in fairness, Dylan Brooks didn't play, and he's obviously the guards Luke. I'm not saying that that would, you know, look, Luca's torching everybody. Luca torched Kauai Leonard and Paul George.

So that's not the end. And he will torch everybody. Yeah, but it is a, it is a big guard that you could put on him, a big perimeter guy, right, that at least is going to try to hassle. Porzincas was a real problem for Memphis. And he's not there anymore.

And so while that trade has been great for them, I don't know if it's great, for that matchup because he was one of the very few people that was a real problem for Jaron Jackson because there's just not guys that look and play like him and it's almost like mirror images in some ways. He matches the lane. He matches the, you know, plays outside, comfortable playing outside.

He can also drive to the back. He's just a problem. He's a condor too. So, but here's the problem. Memphis wants to fly up and down the court. Memphis wants to turn you over. Memphis wants to get offensive rebounds. Memphis wants to do all that stuff.

Those are all things they can do against Golden State. Golden State gets sloppy with the ball. Golden State is small. They only have one center on their team. And yes, they have the pedigree and everything else. But there's a lot of questions with them. Steph's having to come back from injury. They haven't had a ton of games logged together with the three and the ancillary part.

So it might sound crazy, but I've watched that Dallas team turn that into half-court basketball against Memphis. We run a play, you run a play. You cannot speed Luca up. You're playing at their pace. And that's not the pace you want to play at. And Golden State, they'll fly up and down with you. and by the way Memphis knocked them out last year

you know they've had that's a bad it's not a good matchup for the Warriors it's just not whereas that Dallas matchup has been very difficult for Memphis I mean they there's a streak

people could go back and look where Memphis scored over 120 like every friggin night they played Dallas they couldn't get to a hundred it's just the you know they play this kind of slow down, grinded out basketball that makes it more difficult on them.

It's just a, it's a, it's a style thing. And so I would, yeah, Dallas is, I've said from the very beginning, I don't want to see, I don't want to see them. I would, I would rather that be Golden State. Not that they beat Golden State. They would certainly be the underdogs. It's just matchups, though. And I think they would tell you that, too. I think the players will tell you that.

I think they have immense confidence and would not be scared of playing Golden State in the least. Whereas they know Dallas gave them a huge problem. And it didn't just happen once. It happened multiple times. We'll see what happens. We will see what happens. These races are so close.

Even the Utah, Minnesota thing at the edge of the top of the plan, four games left for Utah, some tough matchups, three games left for Minnesota, some easier matchups. The Wolf's goal 3 and 0. and the Jazz go two and two. That means Minnesota would take the six. Utah would end up in the seven. Well, and you also have Denver in there.

Then your first round opponent. We'll see. That could be a crazy collapse. And Denver's tough one is that they lose tiebreakers to both. Yeah. So they get fallout too. Well, they can move up. Yeah.

They would lose a tiebreaker to the T-Wolves if they're tied. They would lose a tie-breaker to the jazz if they're tied. This jazz thing has gotten wild. Yeah. because it's just, I mean, it's falling apart. Did you see that stat that was going around yesterday? Yeah. About Donovan Mitchell passing it to Rudy Gobert twice a game?

Yeah. There's some other stat I looked up this weekend. That was interesting to me. Rudy Gobert, like the reason why they don't pass him the ball is because Gobert, like, you know, he's not a threat on the post with the ball on his hands, dribbling. He shoots below 50% after dribbling at least once. it's since like 2017.

That's one of the lowest percentages of big men. But the fact that he shoots that low percentage and also shoots as infrequently as he does, he only takes one shot per game after dribbling at least once. By comparison, his teammate who plays half the minutes and Hassan Whiteside takes 1.2. You get MoBamba with 1.4.

You get Jared Allen with 3.1 and beat up to like 12 per game after dribbling one time. It just shows how infrequently Robin Lopez shoots 3.5 times per game after dribbling at least once. Robin Lopez is shooting more.

Robin Lopez shoots more after dribbling than Rudy Gober does. So that just goes to show the level of infrequency he ends up being in positions where he needs to make a play off the dribble. And he wants more of that. He thinks he should get more of that.

And I think the, the low numbers since 2017. This year he's at 54%, which is below average, but it's not horrific by any means. So for him, he said he worked on it before the season when I talked to him.

It looks like maybe he did a little bit, you know, it's the ceiling guys off underneath the room. Maybe they should pass him the ball more. Mitchell throwing him the ball only twice per game, which is a stat you mentioned, only twice per game. Wouldn't you think at least two lapsed?

Well, considering the fact, Yeah, considering the fact that Gobert sets more screens than anybody in the NBA, he screens 45 times per game according to all of these stats that have said today, our second spectrum. 45 times per game, that's number one in the NBA, considering how often he does that, Chris, only twice to get the ball. That's something else, isn't it? There's a video going around yesterday from the Golden State game where he seals Clay.

Yeah, underneath. He's one-foot position. One foot from the basket And fire on the ball Luca would get him the ball Chris Paul would get on the ball Right there right Mitchell looked right at him too

Yeah But like a great point guard Doesn't Luca or CP3 Get him the ball there? Yeah oh I mean it's it's purposefully I don't know you say that But I mean there was a video That went around all last year

Of Porzingis You know rolling to the basket Two guys guarding Luca and Luca Just like looking at him be like Yeah I ain't doing it to you I'll tell you what, though, here's the thing. Gobert has... It's not a basketball thing.

It's a personality thing, Kevin. I think it is. He doesn't like the guy. I think it is. It is. Action speak loudly. Actions speak loudly, don't they, Chris. It's not a basketball thing.

That's a... I can't stand this guy. I'm throwing you the ball. We are inevitably going to get a report by somebody in the coming weeks or months about some friction within that law. Oh, you don't need one. You didn't see the thing. last week where after they blew it to the clippers, you have Donovan say what he says.

Exactly. You have Rudy. We don't need it. You have Rudy. You have Rudy people calling people out. Then Quinn Snyder says, yeah, I wish Rudy wouldn't, you know, would keep that stuff in the locker room. Then the reporters go back to Donovan Mitchell and they ask him, you know,

did you see Rudy's comments or what do you think? And he goes, it's childish. It's absolutely childish. I mean, I was like, oh shit. Like, they just, that is a fractured thing going on there. And I was listening to Tim McMahon who a couple of weeks ago, when he was in Memphis, I talked to him about it. And he said that he had not written about it yet. You know, he's covered that Utah team very intensely.

And he knows all the characters involved. And one of the things that he talked about, well, he dropped the mother load on Zach Lowe's podcast last week talking about him. and he was pretty adamant. He thinks it's not for long with Donovan there, but he also brought up the Rudy thing and saying that Dallas would be very interested and the interest would be mutual with Rudy Gobert. So it's funny you bring up Luca. But, I mean, he just, I mean, he was like,

this is going all the wrong way. He talked about how, you know, they really miss Joe Ingalls. you could see maybe how he could be a connector between, right? I kind of feel like... Skills and personality. Yeah. Mostly personality, right? Yeah.

Just the leadership, veteran, been there. Game two, though. Game two, six, seven. He was a personal defender, good shot maker, shot creator. And I think that just you, like somebody in the locker room that's not scared to talk. And I think if you probably pulled Donovan Mitchell aside, he'd tell you, I love Joe Ingalls. And I bet if you pulled Rudy aside, he'd say, I love Joe Ingalls. And so that kind of thing, you know, once that is taken away,

you don't really have any other guy like that there. And so that's gone the wrong way, and it feels like they just can't wait for them to not be playing with each other anymore. Even Mark Stein last week reported that Quinn Snyder after eight seasons with a jazz could be fired. candidate for the Lakers. We have Jake Fisher at Bleacher Report this morning reporting, like Stein did, that Snyder could indeed be a choice for the Lakers. Fisher also said Doc Rivers was a name as an option for the Lakers if they indeed fire Vogel, which

he says they plan to do. Doc Rivers. Well, it wouldn't surprise me and it wouldn't surprise me if he could just do that and land on his feet because if they lose early, Daryl's not going to, I mean, He was there before Daryl. Oh, yeah, there's no way. So it's not a handpick thing. No way. Right? He's got to go try to dig up Mike Dantone from somewhere.

I wonder if that would be the plan. Can you imagine that? Just run it all back? Yeah, Hardin, Dantone, Mory, again. I mean, they had D. Antonio in Brooklyn last year. And it went a lot better than it did this year, right? For being fair. You know?

And he wasn't doing it this year. Wouldn't it be funny if it worked out for Philly. that they should have taken McCollum and picks for Simmons back like in October instead of Hardin in February. I mean, I don't want to rehash that one.

I was told that they did a masterful job. I still think they did. It's on Hardin to come through, though. He is what he is. I think process-wise, I do not use the word process because trust the process.

I just came out. But process-wise, I still love what they did. But we'll see. McCollum looks nasty with the Pelicans. Nasty. Well, they are up one on the spurs. In the case of those two end up tied, the spurs would win the tiebreaker in that one. So those are the 10.

We do have 11 teams alive. I mean, the Lakers, like if you were looking at the meter, they almost flatlined. There's like a blip here, a blip there. They're gasping for air. They're two back with four to play, and the Spurs have the tiebreaker. So they need to run the board. I mean, the only way they can flip it is if they go four and O and the Spurs go one and three. That's really the only way it can take place.

And I looked at that Spurs schedule and, I mean, I know it's a long shot, but... No way. It's not happening. I don't know, Keev. I'm not sure that... I know it sounds crazy. I'm not sure that they're going to be favored.

They're not going to be favored in a game. All right. So for both these teams... Nuggets. T. Wolves. Warriors. Mavericks. I mean, they... But the Lakers, though, Chris, they have at suns, at Warriors,

verse thunder, at Nuggets. That's going to be really, really tough, too. They can't beat anybody anyway, but yeah, you're right. But I'm just saying they could oddly get what would be, I mean, and this would be the perfect ending, right? They get the spurs, you know, the desired outcome on that end, and they still can't get it done. Yeah.

Right? because, I mean, look, the spurs are not going to be favored in any of those games. Nuggets, T-Wolves, Warriors, Mavericks? Yeah. I mean. Yeah, that's true. It's possible. You never know.

You never know. Here's the problem. The problem is the 4-0 for the Lakers. What have they done at all? Exactly. That's the tough part. You can't trust the Lakers. You cannot trust them to go 4-0.

That's for sure. You can't trust him to go, I mean, one and four. If they, if the Lakers go four and out, the Spurs go. Oh my God. How fearful do you think Suns fans end up being in the first round if the Lakers go four and oh to still playing spot at all, even a little bit? No. A tiny bit.

I mean, more fearful than they would be if they have to play the Pelicans or the Spurs. Yeah. That's a good way to put it. That's a great way to put it, yes. Yeah. But I think Suns fans are rightfully, extremely confident. I agree. And I do think the Suns would beat the crap out of them, too.

I mean, I think the Suns are going to kill any of those teams. I agree. If any of those teams won two games, I would be surprised. I'm with you. Is that fair? Unless, like, Kauai comes back for the Clippers. Yeah, but they're not playing. Well, yeah.

Well, they could lose one. They could, they could be. But I'm saying, I mean, I guess the Lakers. Minnesota could be, too. You might face the club for a strong. That's always possible. It's possible.

We'll see how it all shakes out. Yeah, I mean, it's actually, it's actually kind of fun. I mean, which one would you be most scared of? If I were the sons? If you were sons or Memphis, like seven and eight of the way those shake out. I mean, I'm paranoid about the idea of Kauai coming back.

I'd be nervous about the idea of Zion coming back, but I know. Zion. John. I know what Minnesota has, so I wouldn't want to face the wolves. I wouldn't want to face the wolves. I'm just saying with the others, it's theoretical. Like the idea. Would you rather face the wolves or would you rather face Denver? Because that's a real possibility that they flip that. It's possible. I don't see Denver falling into it. But I mean, I'd rather face Minnesota than Yokic, just because it's Yokish. I think that Minnesota thing is pretty dangerous. It is really good, dude. Yeah. They're clicking. They figured out a lot of things. Chris Finch, he's on the pile of potential coach of the year candidates for me.

Yeah, so I wouldn't including them. If they dropped back and somehow ended up eight, there's a scenario, especially with that whole Patrick Beverly, Chris Paul thing. You know, they got towns, I think, could have a good matchup against Aiton. I think he could have success there. Yeah. I could see, like, I'm not counting them as one of those, like, I don't think they could win two games against Phoenix. I was talking about Pelican Spurs, Lakers.

And Lakers would probably have the best champions. I know that sounds insane. I know. But I don't. It's more of a credit to Phoenix than it is to, you know, a demerit to the other teams. And who knows? It's so unlikely, but we'll see. You know, crazier things have happened.

I mentioned coached the year real quick, Chris. What do you think about these six names for the first? those three spots. Tailu, Chris Finch, Taylor Jenkins, Monty Williams, E-made, Udoka, Eric Spolstra. I think Udoca is probably the first to drop off that list because of the slow start. That's the only knock, really, despite how the finish was. Right. But he's still on that list, in my opinion, of the six for three spots. I say this, I think if Monty would have gotten it last year, which you could argue he should have.

Let's forget about last year. It doesn't matter. No, people don't. I know, but I'm not, I'm not talking about it. about other people's balance. I'm talking about mine. Taylor Jenkins. It doesn't matter. Taylor Jenkins, it's going to be a two-year award for Monty Williams. It is.

You think that's what's going to end up having? It's a two-year award. Yes. Because they didn't give it to them last year. Which I should have. I didn't give it to him last year. I still can't get over the fact tips won that award last year. I mean, it was deserved in some ways, but I don't know. That was the wildly outperforming expectation.

Even expectation. And that's typically what it happens. Memphis has blown through every expectation. And they have won with all manner of players. And they have won without John Morant for what? A third of the, a quarter of the season. 18 and 2 or something like that, right? It's 19. After beating Phoenix without four starters. Isn't that that game or something else? He's worked. He's been amazing. He's been amazing. I wish. I wish Monty would have gotten it last year because it would be Taylor Jenkins award. Yeah, and it was close last year too. You know, there was, there was 42, I'm sorry, 43 first place votes for Tibbs, 45 for Monty.

So, like, Monty. I actually got a text on Saturday night when that game was going on from our buddy Chris Manix, who said, if he doesn't get coach of the year, I hope he gets something. There should be something. There should be something he gets, and I said they should give him coach of the century for this. As that game was going on, I was like, this is the craziest thing I've ever seen in my life. He's winning with Santi Aldama, for God's sakes. I mean, against Phoenix playing all of their guys.

Xavier Tillman, Santi Aldama, John Conchard, De Anthony Melton, and Dillambrux, and Xavier Williams. I mean, they sat four starters and beat a team that, had 62 wins. I mean, he's, but I understand it. I think history, history would not look fondly upon Monty Williams having this run these last two years

and being the, and they're the best team by a wide margin. Yeah. I think it's eight and a half better than everybody else. And by the way, like the argument for Monty is also very strong because the same things that worked last year have worked this year. He also has allowed a team. to continue to push, continue to play hard consistently.

He's despite not, despite going to the finals, there's no hangover for their long run that they had. This team still continues to click. They've added more layers offensively, defensively. They've allowed guys to experiment.

He's had one hell of a coaching year, as has Taylor Jenkins, as has Chris Finch, as has Ty Lou. For the Clippers to be in the playing with out Kauai. Oh, I know. With Paul George,

I mean, like, wow, what a performance. by Ty Lute coaching his ass off in that staff. I was going with Miami, Udoka with the something. There's so many great coaching candidates for coach the year. It's nuts. You're not going to get me to say anything bad about Monty Williams. No kidding.

The only thing I can tell you is I wish they would have given it to them last year in reference to this year. Same here, Chris. Trust me. I feel the same way. I do. I forget what my top three was last year. I just pulled it up. last year.

I had Monty won, Tibbet, O two, Snyder 3. Yeah. And Tibbs won because of second place votes. That's what gave him the edge.

So it's your fault. I was part of the problem. Come on. If you didn't have him first, he should be second last year. He did an amazing job last year. He did. He did great.

And maybe he could do great in year three. Possibly. We'll see. We'll see. The East. You got Miami, Boston, Milwaukee, and Philly. They're all going to get top four seeds unless something just insane takes place.

They're all going to get top four seats. Five and six, that's going to come down to Chicago and Toronto. And the Bulls have the tiebreaker in that. The Bulls need one more win to clinch a top six seed. Now, their schedule, these last couple games is pretty daunting themselves, but they just need one more to clinch themselves at top six seed. five and six. I mean, I think it's looking at the schedules,

it's very possible Toronto jumps Chicago. I mean, they're tied right now. So I guess that Toronto would get five all alone, which would be an amazing job done by Nick Nurse, as we were talking about good coaches. Which of those is more dangerous to you? Like, if you're a first round team,

let's say whoever's in third, right? you're going to draw, you know, you're going to draw six. Would you rather that six be Toronto or Chicago? I mean, I think it depends on who you are. It's tough, right? Yeah, I mean, Chicago hadn't beaten anybody. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, we give them their respect because of the players that they have.

They started off great. But, damn, the record against anybody good is pretty miserable. Yeah, come playoff time. Maybe you'd rather be facing Chicago at this point with some of the guys that they've had out and some of the shortcomings they've had on really both ends of the court. But ultimately, though, if you're facing an offensive talent of DeRosen and Levine and Vouch, maybe you'd rather face the younger Raptors team that doesn't really have that high-end scoring talent. In that case, I could see why if things slow down in the postseason, you might rather face Toronto over Chicago. Chicago, it's really close between those two teams.

But it is a flip, though, right? Because Chicago was amazing, you know, the beginning, first half of the season, and then has just fallen off completely. Yeah. And the reverse is true of Toronto, right? Whereas Toronto was, you know, they were down there near the play in. And now we're looking up. They got a real chance at being fifth, for God's sakes. And so that's the question.

You know, if you're one of those top three seeds, which one? I think they're both kind of dangerous, just because you could see them both playing really well. It's certainly more likely that Toronto plays well, though, because they've just, it's been a standard now for the last couple of months. They've played well. Whereas Chicago, when was the last time you watched Chicago and were like, wow, they could be a real problem for somebody. Like, they just, every time they have a big game, they lose it, you know, feels like. By the way. Toronto, like you said, it's been a couple months now,

and especially since early March, they've been one of the best teams of basketball statistically. I think 11 and 3 in their last 14. I think you kind of feel like, at least I do, let me tell you if you, or let me see if you feel the same way. I kind of feel like the way Toronto, and we saw this coming after the Jared Allen injury.

The way they flip the standings on Cleveland, I think is aligned with Barnes flipping rookie of the year on Mowgli. Mowgli was the overwhelming favorite. Like, I mean, I remember we talked about this after the All-Star break, and he was like minus 400 or something crazy, like if you wanted to try to bet on this thing. And Scotty Barnes and this Raptors team, they end up with, you know, fifth or sixth,

in the Easter conference, which is what they're going to end up. And Cleveland, you know, is playing in the play-in. I was reading this last night. Our buddies from Stat News posted this. I don't know if you saw it. Scotty Barnes is the first rookie since Donchich, and only the 22nd rookie in NBA history, to average 15 points, over 15 points,

seven rebounds, and three assists in a season. Every single rookie to achieve that over the last, 10 years has one rookie of the year. That's crazy. That's a great stat. 15, 7, and 3. Every rookie that's done that as one rookie of the year. Doesn't it kind of feel like he flipped it?

I don't know. I look forward to seeing how that boat shakes out. I'm fascinated by the rookie of the year vote. I don't know what I'm going to do yet. We still have a handful. I don't know what I'm going to do yet. I don't because we didn't even make. mentioned Cade. Cade is in that conversation, too. It's one of those three. But I look forward to

seeing how this vote shakes out because people are going to be anchored to Mowbly as well. Because he was the frontrunner for most of the season. He was the guy mid-year. He was the guy even after the break. Things changed around the time of the Jared Allen entry. That's when people really were like, huh, Barnes. Cade starts exploding. But will people, will voters stay anchored to Evan Mowgli? And I don't think that's necessarily the wrong choice. Mowbly had a sensational season. No can't be wrong. But I just look forward to seeing

what my peers end up doing. I'm excited, Chris, with this year's coach the year, rookie the year, MVP, all NBA ballots. You got Bill Simmons telling Ryan the other day, he's not going to put both Yokic and Ambide on his first team ballot because he doesn't want to bend the rules with the center forward thing.

Other voters are going to do the same thing. Some voters, maybe, including me, are going to put both on their first team. It's just going to be madness to see how this vote ends up shaking out. I wish the NBA would release it this month. I don't want to wait. I don't want to wait until later in the year. Just release it this month.

With the rookie of the year and the MVP, there's absolutely going to be the scenario where three different guys get first place votes. 100%. 100%. There's going to be three guys. And defensive player of the year, too, who nobody knows who to vote for. Yeah. Could be five different guys getting first place votes for that.

Six, seven. Could be a lot. How many people do you think get voted as a top five MVP candidate? And without a reference point from past years, this is hard to put a number on it. I mean, I just think there's a top five vote. I think there's going to be a huge goal from three to four. Yeah, but how many total get a vote, though?

So in the top, like, there's five slots on MVP ballots. Yeah, I don't have the statistical. I don't have a historical. Last year, last year there was 15. 15 guys got MVP votes? The year before there was 12. The year before there was 12. The year before there was 13.

11. 10. Well, how many do you vote to? Five? Five, yes. 12. The most second fine was 17 and 24. Do you have the names? Who the hell got MVP votes last year?

Last year? Yeah. All right. So in order, I'm just going to rattle off the names. Rapid Fire. Yokic, Embed, Steff, Janice, CP3, Luca, Dane, Julius Randall, Derek Rose, Rudy O'Bair, Russell, Westbrook, Ben Simmons, James, James, Cowan, Leonard. Derek Rose, got a first place vote. What?

Russell Westbrook. Wow. Wow. So, okay, then I have no idea how many, that's my answer.

After you just read me that? It was the NBA fan vote that gave Rose the first place vote. I just looked it up on the balance. It was the NBA fan vote that gave that I will not Say the name of the person in Westbrook on there.

Yeah, tell me the name. You could look it up. Who was it? Max. Who? Max who? Max Hopped from DPA. I'm unfamiliar with his work.

I'm not sure of the organization. Okay. All right. Max hops. It's a bad vote, Matt. It's probably an overseas publication. Is that right? Okay.

Yeah. Big Westbrook guy, Max. That's tough. That's tough. All right. So I think it's going to shake out where Toronto's five and the Bulls are six. Cleveland, Atlanta, Charlotte, Brooklyn. It's like impossible to figure out how that one plays out.

I think anybody has russ on their ballot this year? I mean. The votes get revokes. That's going to have. I don't think so. There is a matchup left between Brooklyn and the Cavs. So we do have that where that could be decided. That can be very, very significant.

By the way, that ballot had no Yokic or in B. The ballot was Steph, Luca, Westbrook, Simmons, Ben Simmons, Janus. That's the top five on that ballot. Look, you got to take his vote away. You have to take his vote away. End of story. I know. That's a,

just being honest. We're not being mean here. We're just being honest. You can say, you can say I'm being mean. No, you're not being a mean. You're just being honest.

It's like, Kevin Drummond on defensive player of the year. That's making a mockery of the MVP voting. Ben Simmons! What are we doing here? Yeah, no, no.

He didn't have it. He didn't have MP'd? No. He didn't have MBEat. No. Zibbitt. He said Ben Simmons is the real MVP of Philly. Jesus. This guy. Max.

This guy. I look forward to seeing who has ballots this year because I've heard, you know, Ryan Rissillo said he got a ballot this year. I believe Chris Herring. Somebody else recently said they got a ballot for the first time. It's escaping me at the moment.

But yeah, it's a new group. So I wonder what this year's ballot looks like. I'm just excited to see how this vote breaks out. And we get the season Sandings. too. He was just discussing and I just interrupted you. I'm sorry. Yeah, I mean, look,

I was talking about the bottom. It's Cleveland, Atlanta, Charlotte, and Brooklyn. We know those are going to be the last four, more than likely. We know that Brooklyn and Charlotte are going to be 7 through 10. But here's something that I,

you know, just dawned on me, you know, looking through all this stuff today. You know what? You know what one thing that no one has considered that who's absolutely in play because of how awesome their offense has been and because of how pathetic the Nets defense has been. I know it's just a, you know, a given that you're not going to bet against Duran.

Like, Charlie could catch them in a one game. And then Brooklyn, who's got the second best odds at the frigging title. if you want to go bet it in Vegas. Like, what if Brooklyn doesn't even make it? Like, I think everybody's just thought, like, hey, man, they're going to get there. You know what I mean? Like, I would never bet against Durant. But I'll tell you this, it happened last year with Curry.

It was the whole, I'd never bet against Curry. Next thing you know, they're not even in the damn playoffs. They lost to Memphis. It's 100% possible. Charlotte. Charlotte is not. I mean. Yeah, they're pretty.

I mean, they can explode offensively. Yeah, but even if Brooklyn beat Charlotte, then you get Atlanta or Cleveland. One of those teams can end up catching them. You never know. If they got Jared Allen back, Jared Allen's revenge, you traded me, and now I'm going to have 75 rebounds. And it could turn out that you do face Cleveland. Could. You could.

It could. That Atlanta team, that one, I think, you know, we were talking. talking about the Toronto, Chicago thing. I mean, I'm not so sure that, especially with the way Trey's been playing over the course of the last couple of weeks, like, that's no picnic. We know that they did win playoff series last year, right? And so that's why I think it's really, really hard.

It's impossible to jockey for this. We were doing the whole, hey, you really want to stay away from Brooklyn. I feel like that has changed. you? I feel like I'd think I'd be more scared of Atlanta than I'd be scared of Brooklyn and hell.

I don't know. Charlotte, if they get Hayward back, they're a lot better team. They are. And it's a one-off. You know? As you said, Chris,

you're not betting against Kevin Durant. I'm not. You're not. Yeah, but also, we were saying that at a time the anticipation was that Ben Simmons would be back by now. That's right.

And that's exactly like that still hasn't happening. It still hasn't happened. Where's Ben Simmons? Well, and now, if you heard Rasillo talking, the, the, the Kareen numbers have come back to Earth when he's playing every game. It's not once every seven, eight, nine days. You know, it's, he's playing every night because that man, because the, the mandate thing was lifted. And he's able to play, and the numbers are a lot more pedestrian. And just defense. I mean, certainly you would think in a one-off, I still would bet on Kevin Durant. Yes.

All I'm saying is last year, it's what everybody said about Steph Curry. Yeah. And his team wasn't that good. The same thing goes with this Nets team. Yeah, it's one guy, but the team ain't that good. Like, I've kept waiting for the Nets to turn up, especially after, you know, the Kairi full-time thing. They haven't turned up at all. you have no idea.

They had a competitive game against Milwaukee, but they lost that game. They've been average and their defense stinks. It's bad. I don't know. I'm going to get a bunch of stops. And maybe, you know,

we could get surprised you brought up the Zion thing, Ben Simmons thing, the Jared Allen thing. Gordon Hayward thing, God forbid, the Kauai Leonard thing. So many things. Any of those guys being plugged into their situations like greatly alters their team's opportunity. And we still have Steph coming back.

And we'll see, you know, if he's just, you know, supernova step. He really has not been supernova stuff throughout this season. you know, like the force of nature, unstoppable guy. But you get the benefit of the doubt when there's somebody like him, for sure. And he still puts fear God into you.

I'm just saying, you look at the way Trace played. And over the course of this last week and a half, and it's just been ridiculous. Totally ridiculous. I mean, yeah, he's been on. an absolute tear recently and all season long ultimately he's had a he's he's he's tough to keep off all NBA uh like I've been I've been I always play devil's advocate with myself with these things I'm having a hard time keeping tray off yeah I think he'll I think he'll end up on my

all NBA team 28 points per game this year 10 assists his career best season shooting from 3 38 percent. As you said recently, the run that he's on is ridiculous. Tray's been something else. Yeah, he was just, I guess he got that player of the week in the NBA this week. But yeah, he has been outstanding. One last thing I want to ask you before we get out of here, and this is about the envied comments. You know, everybody kind of politics here at the end of the season for the different awards. Skyser asked about the... them for sure. And then they, you know, they say what they think.

M.B., I mean, he did the whole, yeah, it matters to me a lot. And if people don't vote for me, I don't understand it. And I feel like they hate me. As a voter, are you persuaded to let Joelle M.B. know that you don't hate him, therefore voting him, MVP, it says if winning MVP happens great, if it doesn't,

I don't know what I have to do. I'll feel like they hate me. I feel like the standard for guys in Philly or for me is different than it is for everybody else. I would say to Joel Labede, the standard is not different, at least in my book,

I can't speak to any other voters, but like for Embed, it just so happens that this is a year where Yokic and Yonis are also having absolutely spectacular seasons. I mean, we are so blessed as NBA fans to have Embed, Yokic, Yonis, doing what they're doing, Luca, Booker, I mean, Jaws, so on.

There's 20 guys that could end up on the top five of this ballot. In a normal year, those guys might be actually winning the MVP. But as basketball fans, we have Embeded, Yokic, and Yonis having all-time great seasons, looking the part of MVP's, looking the part of all-time grades, we are lucky. We are lucky that we're lucky as fans to be witnessing this. Chris, when I was a kid growing up, I didn't have as many bigs as you did.

You're a little older than me. But I had it in the 2000s with guys like Duncan and KG. And for it to go away for a while was disappointing. But the way it's come back with all of these bigs, dominating and the way they are, it's just the coolest thing. It's the coolest thing to see it come back. So I hate the fact that it becomes all about the award.

I really do. It becomes all about who's going to win MVP and who's not going to win MVP when really it's like we have all of these guys that are deserving as MVP. Well, it's like MBE is not about hate. It's really about love. Embedddd is really the frontrunner for a long time. I mean, heading into the final week of games, he is second and scoring, sixth and rebounding, ninth in blocks. And the only other player that's in the top 10 and all those is Yannis. he also has 1140.10 rebound games.

The only two players that have ever recorded more of those games in a single year are Moses Malone in 1982 and Russell Westbrook in 2017 and both those players did win MVP's in those years. And of course he, you know, I mean, he's got the whole narrative thing of the, you know, in the midst of all the Ben Simmons drama. he carried that team. But, I mean, the cases are great for everybody. Everybody.

They are. I mean, I could listen to you, persuade me on the Yokic thing without Porter and Murray and the historical stuff he's done. Curse, you know how many times I've convinced myself that Yokic is the MVP, that Abed is the MVP, the Yonis is the MVP? A lot of times. A ton. And I will continue to until I submit my vote. No, I just gave you those stats. You can do it for all of them.

Exactly. Because Yokin is the only player in the top 10 in the NBA in points, rebounds, and assist. Yeah, I mean, you can give stats, you can give the narrative, you can give the story. Like, there's arguments for all three of those guys. All three of them are deserving as MVP's. Only one of them can win it. That's the where I feel about it. Is that too much gray area or nuance for an MVP debate?

Like, should I dig my heels in and say one of these guys? I say this, though, definitely not one of them. There's not much nuance. month's debate going on regarding the the betting on this though because if you if you were out at

you know at the sportsbook in Vegas Caesars right now has it Yokic minus 300 meaning you'd have to bet $300 just to win 100 Mb'd plus 270 Yonis plus 600

so that is a overwhelming favorite in Yokech. So, I mean, we say that there's a bunch of debate over this, and it could be anybody, but that's not what the gambling line says, as of right now with a week left. The gambling line says that one guy's going to run away with it. Maybe so. Do you think he ends up running away with it?

I'm just saying, like, that he wins it. I know, but do you think he ends up? Oh, I don't think anybody's going to run away with it. especially when you got three guys getting first place votes. Yeah, I mean, Bon Tamps and his last... I know, but that's changed. Right after that thing came out, Janus boned the nets and then the Sixers both on national TV.

Yeah. And everybody was like, what are we doing here? That's the best player in the world. I mean, I get it. You're, you know... I don't think it's crazy to think that if somebody... If one of these guys had like a 60.17 rebound game,

which is on the table for all three of them, like that it could have a profound impact, even though there's only like five games left. We are persuaded by that stuff. 100%. Recency bias is a real thing. And it will influence some percentage of the voter population in terms of who wins this award.

And it's also, I don't think it's necessarily a detriment to factor in what happens the last one. week of the season, but last week of the season matters. Of course it does. These game do matter. And these teams do have implications in terms of, you know, how they perform, winning games, trying to get a play in spot for Dendor, trying to move up in the

standings like for Philadelphia and Milwaukee. These games do matter. I don't know who I'm going to vote for, Chris. I'm confused. You really don't know who you're voting for. I don't know. For rookie of the year or for MVP? Or defensive player of the year, or coach of the year.

I don't know yet. I think all NBA is probably the easiest. I have like 12 guys locked in. It's the last three spots where it's, I have no idea. I mean, it's going to be a coin flip between so many different guys for so many different ballots. All defensive, you know, similar

there. Last spot's tough to figure out. But the awards, it's also tough at the top. I don't know. I don't know. It's going to be fun. And this last week could end up deciding a lot of things, not only the standings in the playoff matchups, maybe even some of

awards. It's possible, even if that sounds crazy. It will. It will. It will. It will. It's down to the wire, man. Found of the wire. Well, and we're also to the season where somebody, one of the, you know, there's a lot of good basketball writers, thinkers, et cetera, and somebody, somebody's going to make like a real case for different guys for different awards that is going to be persuasive. there are different media members that can't swing this stuff. Why so-and-so should be defensive player of the year.

Why so-and-so should be MVP. Why so-and-so should be coach of the year, whatever. And I think that, you know, it's just human nature to be able to be persuaded. And, you know. How do you think that people would talk about awards that this is not possible? If the NBA had a way to ban award talk, like, let's say we weren't allowed to talk. Like, let's say we weren't allowed to talk about Janice Yogic and Mbiz

in the context of MVP. Oh, geez. You want Elon Musk to invest in the NBA too? Elon's about free speech. I know. You're talking about banning. You're talking about banning speech. It's the opposite here.

I'm trying to be Twitter. You're banning speech. If you could ban. That's what I said. Elon's going to come in and start buying him here. If I could ban how do you think that would affect NBA discourse if we couldn't talk about awards

if we couldn't talk about it? If Nick Wright, our good friend of the show, couldn't talk about Yokic's MVP on his show. Oh, that would be amazing. Yeah, but I'm just saying, how do you think it would change NBA discourse? I mean, it's hard to fathom. It's a centerpiece.

Yeah, if everybody just came up with their own independent opinion? Yeah. No, instead of just talking about it, in the context No, I mean, like everybody just came away with their own opinion that was not... For the vote, too, yes, exactly. And they weren't, you know, well, I don't know, shit. You could end up with somebody voting Ben Simmons and Russell Westbrook.

That guy doesn't watch anything. He hadn't seen a debate show in his life. He thinks Ben Simmons is the MVP of the single. he thought Russell Westbrook. So I guess there's your answer. There's your answer, Kiff. Yeah, you're right. It'd be wild.

That's what happens. It'd be a wild vote. Hey, so I'm voting for everybody does discuss it with each other in order to get to a better solution. Because what happens when you don't pay attention to what everybody else thinks, it ain't pretty. Shout out to Matt. whatever your name is. It's the worst ballot I ever heard of. All right.

It was brutal. I know. I'm just, I was saying, I got through an alley-up. It's tough. And you just, you just dunked it,

and then you celebrated. And then you got a tech. Yeah. In true Russell Westbrook fashion. In true, Russell. Yeah. All right. Thank you to our executive producer,

Jesse Lopez, I'll talk to you on Friday. I'm looking forward to Friday show, Chris. I'm sorry to Pistons fans that we focus so much today on Scardy Barnes versus Evan Mobley. We did overlook Kate Cunningham a little bit. We talked about him a lot on Friday show last week. If you want to go back to last week's show and listen to that, we love Cade.

We'll probably talk about it again Friday. Have a good one.