The Mismatch - Dame’s Future, KAT Trades, Wemby, and Underrated Free Agents

Episode Date: June 27, 2023

Verno and KOC discuss all the latest around Damian Lillard, who remains a Blazer for now (02:08). Can Portland finally build a championship-caliber team around Dame (10:37)? The guys discuss the Hawks finally trading John Collins, the thinking behind the Timberwolves re-signing Naz Reid, as well as Victor Wembanyama’s decision to skip FIBA and the hope to see him at Summer League (22:13). Also, what to expect from this year’s free agency, which begins on Friday (39:00). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming, please checkout http://theringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Bill Simmons from The Ringer, and this is a podcast called The Rewatchables. We have been doing it. Really since 2017, it started with how much we love the movie Heat. We decided to structure a whole podcast with categories, most rewatchable scene. Who on the movie, Apex Mountain, what age the best? But here's the thing. If you want the full archive, you can hear them only on Spotify for free, by the way. So make sure to follow the rewatchables on Spotify.

Welcome to The Miss Matchable. and join him as he does every Monday night from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, a.k, Kevin O'Connor, Kevin O'Connor, Kevin O'Conflict, Kevin O'Clymer, Kevin O'Candyland, Kevin O'Cillian, Kevin O'Brien, Kevin O'Blessarian. Kevin. How are you doing today, man?

I'm good. We now can turn our eyes towards not only free agency, but also Summer League is right around the corner. As we got through last week's NBA draft, you wrote about to start off the week, one of the most pressing stories in the NBA, which is what is going to happen with Damien Lillard? Damian Lillard, of course, has been rumored for some time, especially given the plate of last

year's Portland Trailblazer season to possibly go elsewhere. That became even more in focus after they got the number three pick in the draft, and it was assumed that they would draft a player there, but there was also a brief thought that maybe they would use that to improve their team. A deal was probably not on the table for them to improve their team greatly using that number three pick as an asset. So they took a boy card in Scoot Henderson. And so now the attention turns towards what is going to happen with Dane.

Quick update before we get into your article. I don't know how much we can take from this, but Chris Haynes tweeted out this evening that there was a statement from GM Joe Cronin saying, I met with Damian Lillard and Aaron Goodwin this afternoon, it's his agent. We had a great dialogue. We remained committed to building a winner around day. Now this is part of what you wrote about, the idea that maybe you just stays there. Take me through the article after you kind of collect all of your thoughts writing that

and then see this statement that comes out tonight, kind of piece it all together for me. So, I mean, the article is basically just about, you know, we know the podcast two weeks ago where he says, you know, the heat and the nets or the two teams he'd be interested in than going to if he were traded because of his friendship with Bam out of bio and the kelpridges respectively. Within this article, I kind of went through the 27 other potential teams to be traded to and said, hey, how many options really are there for him? How many teams are there that could be potential destinations that need a 33-year-old point guard that's going to make $60 million?

How many are there that have the assets? There's just not a lot of teams. And I think a couple of them, you could say the Celtics, Chris Haynes had said, previously that Dane doesn't want to go to Boston. You know, the both Los Angeles teams, I don't think they have the assets to get a deal done. The Bucks don't have the assets to get a deal done, neither do the Sixers. The Warriors, theoretically, if they wanted to flip Chris Paul, they have the young players,

Jonathan Cominga, Moses Moody, Pajimski, who they just drafted, they have future picks they could give. But there's just not many teams, unless you really want to stretch it out to, like, the the situation where Paul George goes to Oklahoma City or Hawaii Leonard goes to Toronto, where a team that is definitely not on his list, but has the right assets, makes a move. Like Utah, New Orleans, Orlando. I just don't think that is fathomable at all. Boston, Golden State, or even those two are stretches in a lot of different ways.

I just don't think there's many destinations for Dame. And so for the Portland side of things, I think part of what's going into this state, here, Chris, from Joe Cronin, and part of their resistance to trading Damien Lowe at this point is the fact that Miami can't really offer that much. Like, the best Miami offer is not that good. It's like Tyler Hero, who's redundant with Shaden Sharp, two guys who are, you know, six, five, six, six guards, score first guys. You know, they're not much of a defensive players or playmakers. Kyle Lari or Duncan Robinson is a salary filler,

Hame Haquez, and, you know, two first round draft picks, two swaps in the distant future. That's not a great value deal for Damien Lourd, who just had the best season of his career, 32.2 points per game, 64.5% true shooting, both career highs for him, dominant across the board and offensive categories. I think for the Portland side, they're like,

we're not getting fair value back from any of these teams. Let's just hold on a game. That's what I think's actually going on here. Because with any of those teams, right? So even when Brooklyn does the deal with Phoenix, you go, man, those picks are so far out. This is an older player and they may go down the wrong way. But with anytime you're making a deal with Miami,

you can never count on those picks ever turning out to be anything other than middle of the pack or low. I mean, they just never have a high pick ever. I mean, you go back to Wade and five, and I guess Hero would probably be, I mean, I was just trying to think off the top of my head. They just don't draft highly. I mean, Bam was at the back end of the lottery.

Hero was number 13. Yeah, I know, but that might have been the highest in, I mean, oh, Beasley, Michael Beasley. Remember that one? They had the number two pick that year when they took Michael Beasley. But few and far between is the point. This is why that Brooklyn deal is far more interesting. You mentioned the deal that they made with the Sons.

Well, they have the Sons picks in 25, 27, and 29. They have a swap in 28. They have a Mavericks first in 29. They have their own firsts in 28, 29, and 30. The Nets have better young players. is a deal. They have closer to expiring salaries or outright expiring salaries. I don't think the Blazers would want Tyler Hero. I don't think he makes any sense for their roster with what they have, whereas I think if the Nets were to give, you know, expiring deals, that would be a clean slate

for Portland. Or if they were to give Ben Simmons, who has only two years left as the big salary filler in the deal, I mean, yeah, he has no value at this point, but it's only two years left. And if it just so happens that he's able to tap into some of his former ability, that's a big, win for Portland to take a shot at a guy like that. I think the Nets can offer the best overall trade package for Damien Millard, more so than what Miami can offer, even more so than what Boston or any other theoretical team could as well. I just don't know if that's going to be enough for Portland to say we want to trade Damian Lillard, who just had the best season of his entire career. Let's see what we can do to play with the two timelines here. They're not going to trade

scoot. They're not going to trade Shaden Sharp. We know that already. It would be shocking if they did it and about face at this point and traded those guys and went totally all in. But I think they're going to try to go to the two timelines route, at least at this point, at least at this point, unless some other teams make significant offers or deem just all right pushes his way out, which maybe that's the next step from here. Well, because there's no way to describe how much he means to that franchise and to replace him. If you're not bringing back huge, huge return.

It's not worth it. I mean, there's people, right? Like, I was looking, you know, we talked about the Marcus Smart deal last week. And Marcus Smart was the longest-tenured Boston Celtic. And I saw the outpouring of love for him from many Boston fans. I had a lot tweet me and a lot message me and people that had covered them there. And you realize how much these guys can mean to teams when they've been there for that amount of time. It's nine seasons.

I rooted for players like this in Memphis, where it was. was Mike Conley and it was Mark Nassau. And having players on your team for that amount of time, especially in this day and age, is such a blessing. You know, and there's something special about that. And right now you've got Steph Curry, who, of course, has been with the Warriors. He is the longest tenured. As Haslam has gone off into the sunset, now we have Stefan Curry,

who is the most. the longest tenured player with one team. The next two longest tenured players with a team were both from the June 2012 draft. And they are Damian Lillard and Brad Beale. Brad Beale's gone now. And we just saw Brad Beal go. Next after that is Janus with the Bucs. Joel Embed with the Sixers

Marcus Smart was with the Boston Celtics of course Yokic is 2014 with the Denver Nuggets. So I mean you're talking like it just doesn't happen all that often. You've got

Booker and towns and those guys that were in the 2015 draft but it's hard to have a player on your team for that long, especially one that's still good and as you mentioned just had his just had a fantastic season. The trick is, I guess this is the big question, Kevin.

Do you think they can build a winner around Damien Lillard, given their current state? How far are they away? Are they a player away? Two players away? Are they, you know, those timelines don't match up. And would they have to use those in order? I'm saying use those young players in order to build out a round. We say two timelines, and I'm not saying that either of these two guys are going to be like Wiseman.

But the return on Wiseman would have been a lot better than it was after they played him. I think we'd agree on that. After the return just was no good, considering. And so would you use those young players to build a win now? Jimmy and Lillard is ready to win right now. Those players, even if they're spectacular, early in their careers, you're still a couple years away. So it's not those guys that are going to be the ones that deliver them to be a big winner soon.

It's going to be whoever they bring in or add. Do you re-sign Jeremy Grant? Do you go and try to use assets to try to get you a big? but then you've still got rookies and second year players surrounding him like I what's the path to building a winner in Portland quickly

well 33 Sam Sam Amick in his article today on the athletic Chris he said within there he said here's one solution that is known to be a dream scenario from Lillard's vantage point resign for Jeremy Grant and add

four time all-star slash four-time champion Draymond Green and free agency. Does that make you a championship contender? No. You still need other moves. Is that a start? Sure. It's a start.

You're a playoff team for sure. Yeah. And then you're in the mix. The issue is, you know, the salary cap is 136 million. You know, after you sign Jeremy Grant to say 20, 25 million dollars annually, whatever it is, you're really pushing against the amount of space you'd have left for Draymond Green unless you move Yusuf Nurkich. Maybe you make it a sign and trade with Golden State.

Maybe you dump Anthony Simons into space elsewhere and get other assets back to create a bit more space to make a super competitive offer for Draymond Green. I think that's the path. I really do. I think Sam nailed it in his article there. We've known for years, Portland has always kind of been a flirtatious destination for Draymond Green. So I think considering the fact they could create some of them.

amount of cap space and then it's just about creating some more after that with a couple of other moves to me that feels like the start of what portland would go for if draymond wants to go there that remains to be seen if jeremy grant wants to resign there that remains to be seen uh if they can find a new home for anthony simons that's a big question as well but i think that's the type of formula that damien leward would have interest in even if it means you know sharing the floor with a rookie a 19 year old guy in Scoot Henderson and the other guys they drafted. Maybe for Portland, that's enough.

Maybe for Dame, that's enough to go with the two timelines approach. I don't think it leads to a championship, but it can at least maybe keep you in it and be part of the conversation. Whereas for him, from Dame's perspective, look, I know the heat, you know, went to two finals in recent years. I know they were

just there, you know, this month. A couple weeks ago they were playing in the NBA finals, but them getting Damien Lord does not make them absolute favorites in the Eastern Conference. It doesn't with the way Boston improved with Chris Daps, Porzingis, Marker Smart Trade. It doesn't with, you know, Janus and Chris Middleton, if the bucks are able to bring their guys back and get healthy. It doesn't make them favorites necessarily if the Sixers make improvements too. They'll be in it if they get Deemian Bullard. And they'll be

even more competitive with Dean, but they're not favorites. And that's something, you know, I put in my article today that Dean said himself, he said, okay, so I get traded to a team that everybody says as a contender, but what did they have to give up to get me? If the heat trade for Damien Lulid, that's their final move. They don't have any assets left. They're done. Dame is the final move. That's it.

So I think for him, maybe Miami has a fit less of years. But then you got three awesome players. And if there's anybody that can fill in the blanks, it's Miami. But that's it. But that's their final move. So I'm just saying from Dame's perspective, I can see the hesitations with Miami. And I can see the hesitations with Brooklyn, where, Whereas with Portland, maybe he feels like, you know what, if we can sign Draymond,

if we can bring back Jeremy Grant, at least we can be super competitive being the playoffs, and then we'll be in a position where, hey, if we are actually in championship contention, maybe that's when the Blazers front office makes an aggressive move and trades a shade and sharp deadline time or next summer rather than right now. Maybe right now it's about the two timelines, but then come deadline time. And maybe he's just being sold this, and he ends up being the guy who, who gets dealt come deadline time. But I could see it from his perspective why he would wait as long as they make additions.

If they don't make any big additions, then I don't know what the point is and waiting. But we'll see what they do. Well, yeah, we'll see what they do in free agency and possibly the trade market and what their roster looks like going into the season. You know, you bring up a reasonable point. Are they just selling this? Life is leverage. to me this is a team that's going into their next phase.

Like, you're building out around scoot and sharp and what you got going forward. And I don't think that they are a great pairing together at all. I don't think you're ever going to get the most out of either of them in tandem. It's all fun to think about. Yeah, it's too, it's cool. for it's cool for 2K. I mean, it's two six foot two guards.

I mean, I love dame. I love Scoot. I love both those guys. Together, it doesn't lead to like winning basketball at the highest of levels. It just doesn't. Well, and Scoot's not a stretch of floor guy like McCollum was. We already saw this. You know what I mean?

With the two smaller card back court for so long. And so, you know, I think you probably have him mentor, Scoot. Scoot tries to soak up as much as he can from him. And I think you're probably right. I think maybe now they create the leverage so you're not like desperate where you say, hey, we're keeping him. We're keeping him. Right.

Maybe offers keep getting better. And then maybe his opinion changes as time goes on. And maybe he just play it out for a couple of months once the season starts. They realize, okay, like unless they make some kind of big move that has made them a winner, like they have to be like a real winner immediately next year. or else this all starts all back over again. And it's like, what do we even doing here? Right?

And so they're either going to make a big splash this off season or we're just going to be hurtling towards that again. Well, along those lines, Chris, you know, with what you just said about, you know, kind of waiting a little bit here for Dame, seeing if his opinion changes. I think for Portland, right now, with the amount of years he has left on his contract,

this coming season, $46 million, and then $49 million, and then $69 million, and then $63 million. No, I know. I mean, it's a lot of money. So I think that the length of the contract, you could say on one hand, gives a team confidence to trade for him if they are a team that isn't on his list. On the other hand, the length of that contract with a new CBA and all the challenges to come for a guy who's going to be 33 next season, that's very scary. So I think for Portland, if they wait, let's say come,

January or February, their middling 500 team, it's very clear that the best situation for the franchise is to trade Dame. The best thing for Dame is to be traded. Dame is going to have as preferred destinations at that point. However, the factor I wonder about from the Blazers perspective is how much do they actually care about that list? Come January, come February, if Oklahoma City is, you know, the four seed, or New Orleans is the three seed, or Utah, the two seed, these teams with a bunch of assets, if they say, let's go get Dame and make a run of the title, and they dump a bunch of those picks in a trade offer for Damien Lillard. I'm not sure Portland at that point is going to say, you know what, Dame, we understand you want to go to Miami for two first-round draft picks on Hamay Hakez. Well, we're going to take the six first-round draft picks and send you there. And maybe at that point, Dame is willing to accept the opportunity to compete for a championship with that new franchise. Whereas right now, I think it would look ugly for Portland. Those offers aren't even there at this point. I just think by waiting from the Blazers

perspective, they could end up getting more for Dame while also buying themselves time to say, you know what, maybe we can add some winning players and do both. So I think I like you kind of talk yourself into it where it makes sense from Portland's perspective. I always look at things to the front office lens more than anything else. I think for Dane, he should probably push now, personally. But for Portland, I think I'd want to wait at this point. It's also honestly, like, good timing fan base-wise because it's on a much smaller level. But as much as everyone where I am lived and died with Mike Conley, you knew that as soon as they got the number two draft pick, that that was going to, you had the new guy. You had the new guy and the new guy is, you get to walk right into it.

it. It's like, you know, it's like when Peyton Manning walked away and they get to root for Andrew Luck immediately when Mike Conley's time is coming to an end and now it's John Morant. And they have that natural like, okay, this guy is going to take my love attention and adoration now and something to get excited about that I haven't gotten excited. I mean, it's very, it's very similar in that way where you get that high, that super high draft pick that now, there's nothing more fun than rooting for an awesome rookie. Nothing. You get to do it one time and it's all new one time and you're excited about literally everything that they do. And then it becomes old hat, you know, before too long. But they've kind of got that right now, right? They're going to have

that massive honeymoon. And to your point about the whole maybe they could wait, you know, there's always that fine line of did you wait too long? Do the, if they're not that good and he's and he's got a level of discontent about it and he's looking down at the clock and he's going, hey man, now is it possible your offers are better now than they will become? It is a, again, it's a fine line. Next story we're going to talk about, Kev, is the trade that has happened since we last spoke that happened this morning the John Collins deal.

How many times could they have traded John Collins for something good? We've been talking about a John Collins trade for three years. Almost every time it was better return than what they got today. By the time they finally deal with nothing. Nothing. Literally nothing. They did get a big trade exception. I think that's worth pointing around 23.6 million or whatever.

it was. Oh yeah. Trading for flexibility. That always gives fan bases an erection. Like, that's fun. The great unknown. I'm not saying that it's not useful. I'm saying it's so lame when you do trade for it. It's like, oh, all right. We traded for possible space. And then if that space ends up getting used one day, you know, then the GM always says, well, we were able to do that because of that deal that we made. But like, we talked about John Collins, like getting like, getting like, like real return for a long time. And then by the time it finally happened, it's like you didn't even get a, you didn't get a late first round pick. You didn't get, like,

you just got some, some financial freedom. This is what you got by the time you end up getting it done. Three years, 78 million was remaining. And so it frees them from that. Why do you think Utah did this? I mean,

he's 25 years old. He'll be 26 next season. add another guy in there front court and maybe he figures out his jump shot again like he did for, you know, certain stretches last season after his. They got amazing hand surgeons in Salt Lake City. Yeah, maybe, yeah, maybe they can heal him, you know, through prayer or something like that, you know.

They don't, they just need to straighten that thing out. I know, that's what he needs. He needs like, he needs a miracle is what he needs to fix that, you know. He just, well, why don't, surely you can straighten that thing out. That won't know. he's got. I think I'm serious when I say that. I think he needs a miracle to fix that finger. This guy

had become a 40% three point shooter and what do you shoot this year? Like 29? Something like that? Yeah, 29% this year. Yeah, John Gron Ghos I want a 30 for 30 on that finger. I know. He did. What if I told you? A guy

was a dead eye corner three point shooter and then his finger got mangled and he couldn't make a shot. Yeah, he was, for the first five years of his career, here is 37.6% from three, fell down to 29.2%. And, yeah, I mean, even if you look at last season, the 21, 22 season, his numbers fell off after the injury happened. So he needs a miracle. Maybe Utah can find some upside with him at this point and restore some of his value. I think that's why Utah does it.

They traded Rudy Gay, right? I know. I mean, they traded Rudy Gay, who had no place for on the Jazz. anymore at his age for Atlanta. They get the salary cap savings with the trade exception. I think it makes sense for both sides at this point. And you know what's hilarious is

Will Hardy will get him playing like the best basketball of his life and that Danny's going to flip him for something good. That's like 100% well I'm thinking. Isn't that exactly? Like they're going to just restore his career like they did Laurie Marketing's

last year. I loved John Collins. Like the young John Collins, it was like, well, because he's perfect for the modern NBA. He rebound and he fights. And he was like, he was a weapon all the way out to three point range. Throws down lobs. He's a fun player. Yeah.

John's a baddest. Yeah. It's so much good going for him. And it's just all been, it's just been like talking about John Collins' trades for three years. It's been so strange. But I used to really like him as. a player. I just pulled up his basketball reference.

His nicknames on there. The Baptist, Duncan Deacon, J.C. Yep. It's a pretty good set of nicknames. John the Baptist is a great nickname. It really was. It was a great one. You know what I mean?

And I always liked him, but like now, and you got to imagine that Travis Link's gone in Atlanta, and now Landry Fields gets his chance along with Kyle Corver and Quinn Snyder, They say he has a lot of, he's got a lot of say in personnel. And so they get to walk in there and they'll remake that roster.

You know, as soon as that Collins deal went down, they kind of made it clear that this is one of many possible moves in a remake of that Atlanta roster. You know, Quinn Snyder got a very short amount of time to evaluate it, but I'm sure he's got strong opinions. and everybody that comes in that gets that job wants to remake the roster in their own image, right, so that they're responsible for it. And they're responsible for the guys that are on that roster.

And so it's going to be very interesting to see. I don't know, you kind of find out which ones probably Landry Fields was in big favor of, you know, that he probably endorsed somewhere along the way and other ones that were more decisions made by others because you'll see those you'll see those guys head out but they got a remake to do there in Atlanta and this was

feels like the first one and there were these rumors about a Capella deal that possibly could have taken place you know around draft time and so think a very interesting offseason for Atlanta and especially with how they remake that roster for Quinn Snyder and also

what they do on the Trey Young DeJante Murray front, you know, do they like that as the backcourt pairing? Like, I really don't know. I mean, that's a, that's a fun one to monitor because I think that's going to change a lot. I think they made it clear it's going to change a lot. And this was just kind of the first step of that, right? Yeah, I think so.

I mean, pretty much everybody that you could imagine was evolved in with trade talks prior to the draft, DeJante Murray included. So for you, for Atlanta, I mean, we'll see what other moves they make. They should use that exception. whether it's now or during the season. So they have suddenly quite a bit of flexibility now to make some changes. And I look forward to seeing what they do around Trey Young. Yeah.

Nas Reid got a contract. And I was a little surprised by this simply because I really like Nasreed. Let me just go ahead and say. I like him. I don't know why he wasn't extended during the season. Remember that got kind of little contentious during the year where it was like, they're not going to extend Nas Reid and Nas Reid's going to go into free agency.

And then they decided on Nas Reid. It made me wonder, are you really given Nas Reid the, what was it, 42 million, I think it was? I read something like that. Are you giving him that if you're sticking with Towns and Gobeyer?

I got to think no. I got to think no. That's a hedge, right? I think so, too. Nasreed signing is a hedge because otherwise you've got $400 million sunk into your sanders or, you know, because he played very well as a stretch five when Gobert was out. It's like $95 million annually, which are committed to them roughly,

depending on incentives and all that. So I just think from Minnesota with the cap at $136 million, if you're committing that much, almost $100 million to those three, it doesn't make any sense. So that raises the question of who are you going to trade? Well, you're not trading Nazare. you just signed them. Rudy O'Bair probably doesn't net you as much as Carl Anthony Townswood, considering the age difference, the offensive skill gap. I think towns would have a lot more

suitors around the league, but how many of them would be able to offer something that makes sense for you? Is that your Portland deal? Well, I mean, Portland, you know, the cat, I forget who reported it, but, you know, Paul George was the big name. People mentioned that was involved in talks for three. Kat was the other. He didn't. ain't get as much attention. So they did have talks. I don't think they're trading scoot for Carl Anthony Towns, but maybe you're trading Anthony Simons and future picks,

but why would Minnesota want Anthony Simons in a back court with Anthony Edwards? I don't think that makes any sense from Minnesota's perspective. Zach Levine's been involved in talks. Same thing there. Levine Edwards, don't think that makes a lot of sense for you. DeJante Murray? DeJante Murray, you know, DeAndre Hauner or something like that from Atlanta.

How about a grant sign-in-tree? with Portland Yeah That's interesting That's interesting Get Carl Anthony Towns For Jeremy Grant in a sign and trade situation Then maybe sign Draymond Green

Something like that That's interesting Maybe Oh my God Draymond Green would hate Cat With the fires I know I know he would hate him

How about how about Paul George Do you think the Clippers would have interest In flipping George for Cat Uh I suppose nothing is out of the question. Maybe, maybe something like that. How about the Warriors

flip Chris Paul for Carl Anthony Towns? No way. Why not? I mean, is you talking about that? That's all you're getting in a Towns deal? No, no. Like Warriors like a non-aggregate deal or as an expansion of the Paul pool deal, which still isn't 100% you know, locked in official yet.

So, I don't know. Maybe something along those lines. Maybe that That town's thing I could see actually happening, right? I just felt like that as soon as I saw that Nas read, I was like there's just no way they're going to carry all three of those guys. Something's got to give here. Doesn't make any sense. I mean, unless they take it to the deadline.

They're all three best suited to play center. Yeah. How about the Knicks? Nicks can offer picks, you know, Randall. Well, they got his guys, right? Yeah. CAA. No, no, no.

but I mean they've got all those Kentucky guys right that old proof you know Leon Leon's got all the Kentucky guys over there so that that was like the original thing like oh they're going to get the Kentucky guys remember when it was like oh they're going to get Booker there they're going to get Towns there they're going to get all these

old Kentucky guys there yeah it's possible I just feel like I don't think you're signing Nazaree and again I mean towns has got to go somewhere so he can change the history of basketball right because I mean I mean I mean I know he hasn't had the impact yet in Minnesota.

I don't think that they're going to talk about how he changed the game. So maybe he's got to go somewhere where he can change the game. And that's what they'll be talking about when he goes into the hall of whatever he goes into. But yeah, that Nazaree thing. To me, to me, when I saw the Najee thing, you know what I thought of, right? I thought of Windhorst putting up the fingers and him going, what is going on in Minnesota? Why would the Timberwolves sign Nazary

a third center for $42 million? Why? Why? Yeah, it's what I. It's writing on the wall to me. I agree. I agree. I agree.

Story about Wemby, not playing. FIBA this offseason, obviously anybody that's that important to their home country, basketball-wise, it's not easy for them. But I was absolutely blown away when I was reading this article about it. And it said, he said an interview that the Spurs would have supported whatever decision he made, but that he came to this choice himself after consulting with his personal medical staff.

And it was about the volume of games in a two-year stretch. It said he played 62 games with Metropolitan 92 in when they made the French League finals, including his first season with the spurs and plans for the Olympics. They calculated he was looking at playing 170 games in a 24-month span and the World Cup made it seem like too much. That was wild.

170 games in 24 months. That's a lot of games, especially for a guy that's 7 foot 5. Those pictures of him over the weekend were just, I know you've seen him in person. I know a lot of people I trust have, but I got to see it in person to believe that that's just not just a whole

CGI'd. I need to almost like reach out and touch the guy just to make sure that's a real human being. I mean, I see him holding baseball. I see him dunking with no jump. I'm like, come on, bro. How is this real?

Crossing over. I've seen it with my own two eyes, Chris. It's real. I can't believe it. It's going to be like seeing a monster in person. He's as real as it gets, which is Unbelievable. And I do think we'll get the chance to see him in Vegas.

California Classic, I'm not sure if that's going to happen. I know the Spurs have two games there before they head to Vegas for Summer League where all 30 teams are playing. I think we'll see him in Vegas. How many games, I don't know. But I'd be surprised if we don't see him at least one. I think we'll see him in that first one for sure because the NBA is promoting one versus two. Oh, no kidding. If he doesn't play in the first one against Brennan Miller and the Hornets, that'd be such a major bummer.

I feel like, Kevin, it'll be a lot like that year Zion was there. And of course, Zion went out with like an intro. Yeah. Right. But yeah. That was the night of the earthquake. If we only knew, um, what a foretell that was that you went out of that game. But I mean, that place was slammed for the Zion debut.

That was a great crowd. Yeah. I was, uh, speaking of foretelling, I'll never. forget, he played in that game and they played against a Knicks. And Kevin Knox came down with a rebound and Zon. He ripped the ball away. Ripped it from him. Give me that ball, bitch.

And I really think he ruined Kevin Knox's career. I think Kevin Knox never got over that. It was the worst thing that's ever happened to someone on the first time they've ever put out an NBA uniform. Just terrible. You know, that's true. I was leaving the arena. the earthquake happened, so I didn't even feel it.

I didn't see the Jumbotron shake or anything like that, because I was constantly moving during the earthquake. I kind of felt like when I was standing outside waiting for my Uber or my taxi, I felt like the last thing rumble, but I was like, I didn't know it was an earthquake until I read it on Twitter, you know? I was like, oh, I was. Okay. I felt it.

How about this? I was in the aria eating pizza with Jaron Jackson Sr. and the table started moving and our bar store started moving and he was like, that's an earthquake. And I was like, what? He's like, I've been in one before.

You know, and he's like, yeah, he's like six, six, huge guy. And I was like, what? What are you talking about? He's like, it's an earthquake. And you could see like, that was your first, your first earthquake. Chandeliers were rattling and stuff.

I was like, oh my God. I didn't know what to, I didn't know what to think. No, I had never been in an earthquake before. You never been in one? In my old apartment in Hollywood. I remember I was sitting and my guitars that were hanging from the wall started swaying back and forth. That was my first earthquake. And the only one that I've actually

felt. They're terrified. Yeah, they are scary. You just don't know. It feels so uneasy. You know what I mean? That was the problem. By the time we speak again, we got free agency coming up this Friday. And Kevin, I was looking through free agents. And there's always so much focus on the big names for sure. We know there's Chris Middleton,

a Kyrie Irving, and Draybond, and even like Fred Van Fleet, Jeremy Grant, just got mentioned, you know, get down notch and it's like Vucevic and DeAngelo Russell and that whole group. But man,

I was looking through like all the restricteds and unrestricted and you can really get a, a lot of good players in this upcoming free agency. I feel like there are going to be a boatload because we know there's not that many teams that have a lot of cap room. There's rockets, jazz, spurs, kings, Pacers, Paisers, Pistons, Magic. I feel like it's a good time to have cap room. If you want to, if you just want to get like really good players and you want to, like,

add in that eight-man rotation, I just feel like we just. saw somebody like Bruce Brown swing the finals in spurts. And even $6 million at the time felt goofy that he was only getting that. But looking through all of the different names, I thought to myself, I think there's going to be a lot of guys. There's so many of them and there's not that much money to go around that I think you're going to, this is like the summer of getting really good players at great contracts. I really do because of how much the price has gone up for the stars.

And, you know, I think we'll probably have a lot of sign of trades in order to make this happen to fit guys into different teams. Because other, that's really the only way it can happen. I think there's going to be a bunch of teams. I think you're going to see immense amount of sign in trades maybe more so than outright signings.

Let me ask you about some of these restricteds that I that I have pulled up and wondering if they'll get big, big offer sheets, okay?

Rui Hachamura No. Cam Johnson. Maybe. Dante DiVicenzo. Probably not. P.J. Washington. I'm intrigued.

Possibly. Grant Williams? Possibly. Austin Reeves? Possibly. Like, I mean, which of these guys in the restricted things? Because then the other ones, you got to imagine, are going to get offers. And it's just going to, you know, in some of those cases, in fact, more than a few,

you're in a situation where teams got to make a decision like, oh, God, we're going to lose this guy because otherwise we're going to be paying him. You know, this, it's like the, it's like losing, oh, what's the guy's name, the Lakers. Oh, sh, Caruso. Caruso. Yeah. You remember? Like, they lost him and everybody was pissed about it.

But it was like, the Lakers kind of explained it like, yeah, well, that's because it was going to cost us a bazillion dollars. Because not only are you paying him, you're paying what the overage is. And now with the second apron and everything, it's like, geez, if we. if we try to match that offer for Austin Reeves, if we try to match that offer for Dante DiVincenzo, if we, like, so I wonder which one of those guys is going to really benefit and which one of them,

because there's a bunch of unrestricted as we mentioned, too. So somebody's, there's going to be quite a few of these guys that are good players. I think you perked up at about four of those. There's going to be a lot of these guys that, like, the money's just not there. Because are they spending their money on these unrestricted? They'll end up more in the mid-level, you know, 12.2 million range.

That's what I think you'll see a lot of those guys end up as. So, I mean, I think for a Grant Williams type, maybe that's what he ends up as. I know Yossi, who from Hoops Height, he posted something about with a projected salary cap. And then he had the non-tax mid-level team. So like the salary cap teams, Houston, San Francisco. Antonio, Sacramento, Indiana, Detroit, Orlando, OKC, Utah. But then the non-tax mid-level teams, just to rattle those off real quick. Hawks, Nets, Hornets, Cavs, Mavs, Lakers, Grizzlies, Wolves, NICs, Blazers, Blazers, Rappers, Wizards.

Those are the teams that I think you could see make kind of, you know, that 12 million mid-level offer for a Grant Williams type, for a PJ Washington type. All it takes is one team to go over for those guys. I really like PJ Washington. I really like Grant Williams. I think they could offer, you know, quite a bit to a contending situation. But, you know, the contenders don't have cap space except for, you know, you could say Sacramento if you want to throw them into that category. But I think Sacramento is, you know, going for bigger fish.

But maybe a backup plan is a Grant Williams type or a PJ Washington. But like, yeah. Just listen to all these names. You got Christian Wood, Brooke Lopez, Kyle Kuzma. You got these player options on guys like Jordan Clarkson and Josh Hart that decisions are going to be made on. Who else? You've got. Jack Landale, Trey Liles, Jake Milton.

Those are the really like guys who are, you know, sleeper types, Wantsanabi from Brooklyn. Bruce Brown again. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Dante DiVincenzo, as I mentioned. Dante DeVincenzo was in the seven-man rotation for the warriors. There's a lot of guys. biggest games.

I think this class is pretty good with, like, pretty deep with solid role players. It's not, it's not the top half, the top, you know, of it is not great. But, you know, for back end of a rotation, you know, in a playoff situation, I think there's a good amount of guys. We just saw Trey Liles play some big minutes in place of Subonis for Sacramento as a small ball five. He could do that for sack next season or for somebody else. Yeah, and you wonder, like, guys like him, guys like even, and I know we had a crap, finals, but Max Truce. Yeah.

I can't, like, what kind of, what kind of contract does Max Trues get? I have no idea. I have no idea. Austin Reeves was like, amazing for the Lakers in the playoffs. Yeah, does somebody give him the $100 million? Oh, God. A hundred million. Maybe.

I mean, I can't imagine that. But what I'm saying is, Cam Johnson? Kim Johnson's like exactly what people. need, right? I would have told you, Cam Johnson's going to get $20 million from somebody for sure. Yeah, but then Brooklyn matches that probably. No, but I mean, he couldn't get his deal, remember with Phoenix last year? Yeah.

And now, like, he kind of risked it and played it out instead of signing for what he did. Same with a lot of those guys, right? They didn't want to, Grant Williams didn't want to sign the offer they gave him. PJ Washington didn't want to sign the offer they gave him. And so now you wonder who's going to. who's going to like buck up and really like throw the money out there at those guys. Is there any one of those guys I mentioned? Is there anybody you think gets a massive contract offer?

Do you think it's more likely that somebody like Reeves gets one or somebody like Cam Johnson or PJ Washington? Both of them. Oh, you think they all do. Yeah, I mean, I'm not sure about PJ Washington, but Cam Johnson, I think will get a good offer sheet. and Austin Reeves, to be determined, I've heard mixed things. I've heard, you know, some of my sources have said, yeah, it seems like Austin Reeves is going to get a big offer sheet.

Others have said, no, the market's just not there for him as much as his team expected. So that's still a little bit of lack of clarity there. I think the Reeves camp is probably hoping for San Antonio to be the team to make that big offer sheet. But we'll see what the Spurs end up deciding to do. I think those other teams that have money, Utah's kind of run out after getting John Collins. I don't love OKC as a fit for Reeves. Orlando's got a bunch of guys in that back court already.

Detroit already has Cade and Thompson and Ivy and Killian, they're not going to go after Austin Reeves. Indiana, like they have a bunch of guys. Yeah, but didn't you bring up San Antonio? San Antonio is the one. Or Houston. Houston, San Antonio, Sacramento, maybe.

But I don't think Sacramento would run a kid. commit their $33 million in cap space to a restricted free agent. The spurs or the Rockets are really the only two teams that I think are serious threats to make a big offer sheet for Austin Reeves, which is why I tend to believe the side of the people say that market's not there that they hope for. And that could be a good thing for the Lakers when it comes to matching a deal for him. So let me ask you about one unrestricted. Like we're now confident.

Traymond's getting money from somewhere. So I'm not even going to cover it. I think Bambly it's going to get a fortune from somebody. Jeremy Grant will probably get a really good deal. Kairi will probably get his deal from Dallas. That's what everybody expects. What do you make of the Middleton thing? And what kind of contract do you think is out there for Chris Middleton from somewhere other than Milwaukee?

Like if he went somewhere other than Milwaukee, You think somebody's giving Chris Middleton a $100 million now? No, I don't know. I don't think so. Didn't he just opt out of 35? It's like 35 he just opted. I think he's going to end up resigning with the bucks for a lower annual value. And it'll just be more money long term.

So he just trades it in for $4 and $80 or whatever. Yes, that's what I would expect to happen. You know, Mark Stein published an article this afternoon about Houston. like who do they actually want and he mentioned the middleton interest in there but he said he said within that article on his substack that league sources see fred van bleat and dylan brooks at the top of the rocket rocket's wish list not middleton so that's somebody else told me brookelopez yeah for what it's worth i don't yeah he meant he mentions brookelopez in the article but not as somebody at the top of the list, he just said,

other free agents that various reports have linked to the rocket. So he's not sourcing it himself. He's just citing those other reports that link Lopez, Middleton, Bruce Brown, Cam Johnson, Austin Reeves to the Rockets, but he's not reporting that himself. They're certainly going to be able to put together. I mean, look, they got the money to go throw it out on veterans. They just got to pick the ones they want, right?

I mean, they've got the chance to make big offers for guys. if they really want them. Just picking the right ones. Yeah, I don't know about the Middleton thing. I just don't know what the market is for him outside of Milwaukee. If somebody out there is throwing huge bucket to cash at Middleton after the way the last two seasons have gone, you know, post them winning that championship, man, I'd be worried.

And then he was having surgery just a couple weeks ago. There was that report, right? I don't know. But it's a big, big name for sure that's out there. This free agency, I think, is going to be great. I have no idea what's going to happen. And you do have those teams that have not been good teams that have got a lot of cap space. And so they're going to be throwing around money at guys that we'll see who they can end up with.

But like I said, I think you could, I think, like you were saying, much like, And these are the things that can swing it. Because we just talked about the Bruce Brown thing. It's like, didn't get a ton of attention when it happened during free agency. And then you look up at the end and it's like the Bruce Brown signings for $6 million, that's the kind of stuff that takes you to a different level. Truly. You can find a player that can contribute like that for that amount of money.

And I think there's a lot of those this year. It's just a matter of who it is. And frankly, it's a question of who gets underpaid. That's what we're looking for, right? We focus all the time on like, oh, my God, I can't believe that guy got that contract. What an overpay. We don't focus nearly as much as the underpays.

But those are the ones that are probably going to swing it the most. I can't wait. It's Friday, this Friday, right? Yes, sir. And it would be a bunch of trade rumors beforehand, because I think there's going to be a ton of sign-in trades too. Yeah, Chris, yep. We'll be recording Thursday night, the Free Agency Eve, which is June 30th on Friday at 6 p.m. Eastern.

So we'll have a final free agency preview, rumor reaction, whatever else is going on. Maybe we get a big trade Thursday night. Look forward to it, man. I would not be surprised, especially leading into free agency, because this is when all the rosters are going to start to get all figured out. Thank you to our executive producer, Jesse Lopez, as always. And Kevin, I'll talk to you on Thursday night. Looking forward. We're having a good week.