The Mismatch - Davion Mitchell, Payton Pritchard, and the Knicks Picks Shine at Summer League. Plus: Joel Embiid and Marcus Smart Sign Extensions and Memphis Sends Patrick Beverley to Minnesota.

Episode Date: August 17, 2021

Verno and KOC start with all the news and movement around the league. First they dig into Joel Embiid’s supermax extension with the Philadelphia 76ers (0:30) and Marcus Smart’s four-year extension with the Celtics (11:30). Then they get into the Grizzlies-Timberwolves trade, which sent Patrick Beverley to Minnesota and Jarrett Culver and Juancho Hernangomez to Memphis (21:23). Finally, Summer League is coming to a close, so Verno and KOC touch on the upcoming championship game between the Celtics and Kings (34:25), discuss the team they think should be the happiest coming out of Vegas, the Knicks (38:54), and examine Luka Garza’s two-way deal with the Pistons (47:18). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor  Associate Producer: Sasha Ashall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The press box is here to catch you up on the latest media stories. Hosted by Brian Curtis and David Shoemaker, these guys have the insight on the biggest stories you care about. Check out the press box on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to The Miss Match. I'm Chris Vernon. Join as he does every Tuesday from the ringer.com. It's Kevin O'Connor, A.K. Kevin O'Bomber, Kevin O'Colmer, Kevin O'Coliner, Kevin O'Col, Kevin O'Candle, Kevin O'Candle, Kevin O'Candle.

You said O'Concer in there. I was at one. Oh, yeah? Sunday night. first one since November 2019. I saw Mount Joy. The last show I had went to was Mount Joy

at the Wiltered in Los Angeles in November of 2019. This show was Mount Joy at the Greek theater in L.A. It's been a long time since you got to use the O'Concert nickname, but it felt good to hear it at the show and hear it from me today. I'm glad that you got to go.

We have a ton of news. We were not suspecting that there would be this much news. Of course, there is a Summer League championship that is going on tonight. And we'll recap some of the stuff from Summer League. But a lot of NBA news has hit as of the time that we are recording on Tuesday morning. Most recently, there's been a trade that we will get to. But before that, news came down this morning that Joelle Embed had signed a Supermax extension with the Philadelphia 76ers.

It was announced that he signed a four-year $196 million supermax deal that will keep him with the 76ers through the 2026-27 season. The deal guarantees and beat a total of $261 million because he was already set to make $65 million in the next two seasons under the current terms. of his deal. So this is going to make Joel Embed a very, very rich man. Of course, he finished second in the Kia MVP voting last year to Nicola Yokic. And he was already signed through 22, 23. But he was eligible for this Supermax,

and they gave it to him. And so, what do you think? This is kind of news I was not necessarily expecting this morning. Yeah, it's very interesting. I mean, even Ramona Shelburne, you know, noted in there that he represented himself in the negotiations earlier this year. He left CAA. You know, for a beat here, good for him, dude. You know, congratulations getting that bag. No reason not to sign that deal now. Get that long term security. There was no reason to wait because he was already eligible for that extension. And, you know, there was always that talk in recent years, Chris, you know, if it ever becomes an either or question

for the Sixers is it Embedd or Simmons that you choose to build around. I mean, we're down that path already. It's all Joelle Embed. It's all Joelle and Beed. Ben Simmons is the guy that, you know, whether it's now or training camp or sometime during the season, that it seems inevitable that he will be moved. It's just a matter of for what, how much. And Embed now just 27 years old still. And seemingly, as long as he can stay healthy, he's still getting better every year.

I mean, this version of him we saw last season, there could be more to untap from him in a situation in which the pieces around him change. If you get him a great perimeter point guard, we may not even have seen peak Joel and beat yet. Well, not only did they have an outstanding record last year, just to put it into context, last season when he was second in the MVP, he averaged 28.5 points per game, 10.6 rebounds, and his splits were 51% for the field, 38% from 3, 86%. from the line. His 28.5 points per game were the most points per game by a center in 20 years. Shack in 2001.

So just to put into context, like it was a historically outstanding year offensively for Joe L. M. Bid, who also brings a lot to the table defensively. Look, we've had this conversation many times over the years. when Joel Embed is at his absolute best, he is on par with any great player in the league. And you can only say that about a few guys, but he's one of them, right? When he is at his peak of powers,

he can, for a series, for a game, be the best player in a series that includes literally anybody in the NBA. And so if you're not committing to him, I mean, to me, he's eligible for that Supermax. If he's willing to sign that deal, you sign him to that deal. End of story. You know what I mean? Like these are the kind of guys. Not much negotiation needed, right?

No, no, no. These are the, it's a matter of, does he want to sign it? We live in a day and age. And I do think, again, you never know the way this stuff is going to play out, but it is another guy that is, you know, not disenchance. with his situation. Now, things can always change, but he has not been, you know, playing in Eastern Conference finals. He has not been playing in NBA finals. And yet, he is not disenchanted and believes that he needs to go elsewhere in order to accomplish his goals. And I think that probably says something about him and his comfort level and how much he likes being in Philadelphia.

I also think, more importantly, it probably shows that he has a level of trust. in Darrell and the Brass at Philadelphia to build a team around him in the near future, you know, and not waste any more of these prime years. But, you know, he's got some level of confidence in the organization. And so it seems as if, much like the Yonah situation, people are going to have to come to him. He's not going to be going and trying to pair up with somebody else in a different situation in order to try to win at the highest level. And I think that's good for the league.

I think it's good for the league for the more guys to be spread out. Absolutely. I mean, yeah, no doubt about it. And I mean, for Philadelphia, we'll see how this Ben Simmons saga unfolds. Like I've said, I've long said, I expect this to roll in the training camp. I expect Daryl to wait as long as he possibly can to go for Damien Lillard. Whether or not Damien Lerd becomes available to the extent that the Blazers are willing to dance and actually make a trade remains to be seen.

But if you're thinking about, you know, the next stage of Joelle LeBeed's career and his development, it's what he has never had before. And that's a perimeter oriented playmaker. I mean, Jimmy Butler wasn't a knockdown shooter. He fit the role of a guy who could create from the perimeter, but he wasn't a shooter. If it's a Damien Lord or if it's a Bradley Bale,

or even if you end up settling for CJ McCollum, for that matter. Buddy He or buddy healed. A buddy heel even for that matter. I mean, in a Ben Simmons trade, getting somebody like that changes the things that you can do with Joel. and Bede. We have never seen him paired with a point guard that allows him to screen and roll hard to the rim. Like, we just haven't seen it. He hasn't had that partner.

So with Embed, if that's able to be something that he can do post-Benz Simmons trade, it could open up a whole new world of possibilities for him in the half court in terms of how he can get buckets and how. how he can impact the game. So I'm excited for Embed and Sixers fans everywhere. Pretty cool, you know, that Joe Al-Aid has turned into the guy that he has. Absolutely. And I do think that if he has a level of confidence in Daryl to be able to trade for a superstar,

it is well-founded because that's the, you know, that's the circles he runs in, as they say. Look what he did in Houston. attainment of superstars is his thing. He had Jason McGrady and Yao Big. He had James Harden and then paired him up with Chris Paul. Then he paired him up with Russell Westbrook. Like if there's one thing that he has been able to show,

it's that he believes strongly in the talent level and the attainment of superstars. That's what you have to have. You and I have both heard him talk about. this, that that's what you have to have in the league. And if the decision is that they don't think Ben Simmons necessarily fits that mode, I think you have nothing else to look at, but his track record, which is he has shown the ability to go and make things happen, to bring in and to attain multiple stars. And that wasn't necessarily, like, he didn't do that by getting someone to

signed there. He did that by trading for guys. He did that by trading for James Hardin. He did that by trading for Chris Paul. He did that by trading for Russell Westbrook. And not all of the deals are, worked out. But if we're saying, can he find someone to pair with Joel Embed if they don't feel great about the particular pairing that they have right now. I think there's no reason to believe he won't. It's just a matter of who. Yeah, just a matter of who and if that opportunity is there. And ultimately, that's what he's waiting for.

I mean, this offseason, they hired Phil Beckner as a coach and consultant. Beckner has long worked with Damien Millard. I mean, highly respected trainer. I mean, for one, you know, but why do you think Daryl Morey is doing that? You know, he's creating, he's creating that, you know, connection with Dame to help increase any possibility that he can that Dame has puts the Sixers on his list. Granted Damien Lillard in his position with four years left in his contract, he doesn't have a lot of leverage to steer his way to any particular team. But with Ben Simmons, being as young and as talented as he is, like, let's not, I mean, like, you know, you know what it is with Ben Simmons. Like, he can't shoot.

But he's an elite defender. He's a great playmaker. And in different circumstances, he could be even better offensively because he could limit his weaknesses if the personnel around him is different. So for Ben Simmons still has value and Daryl Morey still has a lot of his picks. We saw Tyrese Max. He looked really good this summer league. Still has some young talent on the roster.

Philadelphia, if Damian Liller becomes available, could put together arguably by far the strongest package, depending on how Portland feels about Ben's Simmons. So I think for Philly here, it's worth the risk in waiting for Dame to baby become available or be able to be able to become available. And if those guys don't, then you find the best deal possible. I mean, it's not going to go away. All right. Let's talk about a team that did not wait with one of their players. And that was the Boston Celtics. Brad Stevens now running the personnel show for the Boston Celtics. And last night, the decision was made to sign. Markis Smart to an extension. He ended up getting four years, $77 million. Of course, he was set to

become an expiring contract. He was $14 million on the books for this year. We went through a tremendous wave of Marcus Smart trade rumors last year. And I reported that when I saw the Celtics, there were many involved that believed that Marcus was just simply not himself last year because it took a tremendous mental toll on him, right? When you're a heart and soul kind of guy and you love where you're playing and you love your guys, whatever, he was paying attention to the news. He knew the news. People were talking about Marcus Smart Trades all the time, whether it was for an Aaron Gordon deal or whatever else.

to the point where Marcus had been resigned to the fact that he was going to be wearing a different uniform. And I think that anybody that watched him last year knows that you didn't get the full Marcus smart experience. So regardless of your opinion on him as a player, at his best, he is certainly a player that has shown the ability to affect winning in a big way. and also be that kind of heart and soul, life of the party, guy in the locker room, that kind of thing. And to be all in when you think you might be wearing a different uniform in a couple of weeks. And that's kind of how that season went was, I think, understandably tough for him now. Whatever the best of Marcus Smart is, I would assume that they will get that coming up because they took.

that worry for him off the table. Not really. They did. They did in terms of security, though, Kevin. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I know what you mean. When you're sitting on the last year of a $14 million deal

and they may ship you to Orlando, you know what I'm saying? And that was real. I understand. That was real. That was a thing. And then you're like, all right, then I'm going to have to go into free agency.

Who knows where I've got to play next or whatever else? At least, okay, I get your saying. At least now, bro, I got $77 million no matter what you do with me. Yeah, I mean, the reason why I say that is because just to, you know, I understand there's some confusion with the timing of the league calendar. My understanding is that the deal signed, let's say it's signed today. Today is August 17th. He will be trade eligible January 17th. So that would be ahead of the trade deadline for any Celtics fans who are wondering about that or any Wizards fans.

who might be wondering about that as well on the other side of any trade possibilities. But for Boston and Marcus Smart, you know, obviously you sign a deal with the intentions of keeping the player. And Marcus Smart is the heartbeat of that team and Long has been. He's a love of or hate him guy, right? I mean, I think we've seen, you know, Marcus Smart giveeth, Marcus Smart taketh away. And I ultimately think Marcus Smart in the right circumstances can make those. impactful moments in playoff games to swing a series, to swing an individual, individual game,

diving for a loose ball, rotating over, blocking a shot, constantly making hustle plays. And I think with the Celtics roster, as they build this thing out, if they can get Marcus Smart down from 11 shots per game to seven or eight, that's even better. You know, more passing, less shooting, more defense, even more defense. it makes Marcus Smart an undeniably lovable player. Because there's a lot of skeptics, understandably. So, because sometimes he takes too many shots.

But maybe now, like, you diminish that, you lower that down a little bit, and you get the best possible version of Marcus Smart. I have long been a proponent of players like him, though, that it does, I truly believe that it goes beyond the box score with him and that the profound effect that you have on your teammates, by being the kind of guy that cares deeply about winning and losing. You know what I mean? And you can say that everybody cares if they win or lose.

But it doesn't bother everybody the same way. And that's a guy that goes and lays his heart out there. And you saw, I mean, he was one of the guys in the locker room in the playoffs a couple of years ago that stood up and was screaming at everybody. Like that to have him as sometimes as a vocal leader, but always as a leader in the sense of when you look at him and you see how hard he's playing, I do believe it raises the collective level of play amongst his teammates. And that's what I feel like they didn't get last year, right? They didn't get that. The best of Marcus Smart is that all in, I'll dive in the fifth row for a. a ball, I will, you know, because not only did he not know if he's going to be wearing that uniform

in a couple of months, he doesn't know what his contract status is going to be in a couple of months and all manner of things that could have possibly distracted him or caused him to not be the guy that we have typically seen. But I think at his best, that is, look, he's been a part of a lot of winning there with young teams. And it's not like he was just an innocent bystander to their success. He was a significant rotation player to a team that I think probably outperformed their roster a few different times by making it to the Eastern Conference finals. And they were right there, you know?

And he was a guy getting big minutes on that team. And so I've always been a smart fan. I am. I'm a Marcus Smart fan. How could you not be? Like you rooted for grit and grind. That's right. That's what Marcus Smart is, right?

He has some of those qualities that, you know, Celtics fans have long loved. Love, love Tony Allen, you know, who helped bring that to Memphis. He might be the all-time Tommy points leader. Rest in peace, Tommy Einstein. He really might be the all-time leader in Tommy points. Because Lord knows Tommy. Tommy Hudson, man. I miss watching Celtics games with my dad watching Tommy Highton and Mike Gorman.

He loved Marcus Smart. Oh, my God, he loved Marcus Smart. You know what I mean? Yeah. Anyway, I think you probably get the best of Marcus Smart. And it's not a crazy contract. It's not. It's not a crazy contract.

And even if you are thinking we want to use him as a piece, I think you need to get the best of Marcus, you know, in order to make him, I don't think his stock right now is nearly as high as it could be. Because he's got a lot of fans around the league. but he also did not have a good season, and they didn't have a good season last year, right? There was a lot of people that truly fell in love with Marcus Smart

when they were making those Eastern Conference Finals appearances, and he was making game-winning plays at the end of playoff games. Like, that's the kind of thing. And they just, last year was just a, it was a disaster. It was. It'll be interesting to see how, with Udoka, how, what the offense looks like, and how balanced responsibility.

abilities are because you bring back Al Horford as well, who's going to be getting some of those touches, some facilitating opportunities around the elbows from the perimeter. I wonder, like, what is Marcus Smart's role going to look like? I would assume he's going to start over Schroeder. You also have Josh Richardson in the mix there now as well, Peyton Pritchard, who's had like an awesome, awesome Summer League. Granted, it's just Summer League. But he had a great rookie season as well as a late first round pick.

So you have a lot of guards in that back court, never mind Tatum and Brown that are going to get a lot of opportunities that are your star players. So you're going to see a lot of lineups with five guys that can handle the ball and facilitate. I mean, on paper, I know like the Celtics had an underwhelming season. They're only 500. But on paper,

I love what the Celtics have. Interesting. On paper. We'll see how it works out. But on paper, it's hard to defend a team that is five guys who can create. and they can roll out a lot of a lot of lineups they can do that a lot of combos in fairness they also have and we're going to get to summer league later but they have reason to believe that they might be able to get a lot more participation from and development from their young players that they drafted last year yeah whether or not you get pritchard yeah and whether or not you get grant grant williams to really contribute or you get romeo langford to really contribute if we're just talking about last year's guys knee smith and pritchard the idea that those guys would be able to contribute this year

is certainly after Summer League much less far-fetched if anybody found it to be far-fetched. And Pritchard, I mean, like I said, we'll talk about him later, but Pritchard, he had a good rookie year in his Summer League. It's just been, I mean, he looks dominant. Dominant, dominant, he says. All right. Another story we've got to get to is right before

we came on the air today. Another in the mold of Marcus Smart type player is Patrick Beverly. And Patrick Beverly had been acquired by the Memphis Grizzlies in a deal for Eric Bledso. When the first deal took place and the Memphis Grizzlies traded up to get the number 10 pick in the draft and moved Yonis Valentunis and acquired Stephen Adams and Eric Bledsoe, one of the things I talked about was, this is moves to make moves. And I do believe wholeheartedly that they really wanted Stephen Adams. They think Adams can be a, you know, a defensive quarterback. Adams is still young, shockingly young, considering how long it feels like he has been around. And how much he has changed physically.

I mean, it's just outrageous. I thought he was like in his mid-30s when they traded for him. And I'm like, what? Only 28 years old. Just turned 20, July 20th. Stephen Adams being 28 is outrageous. Anyway, you know, they feel like he can be that kind of defensive quarterback, a bodyguard for job, play pick and roll offense, set those screens. And you need a center for the nights that you got to go up against Nicolioch, you got to go against Joel Embed.

And you got to go against guys throughout the league. You need somebody formidable to put in there. able to deal with them and you can do a lot worse than him. It's also a big bet on the development and step up for Jaron Jackson and they think he's a very good fit with him and think that Jaron Jackson is going to be logging a lot of minutes at the center. He's going to be a five eventually and going to get a lot of minutes there. And so there's a way you can play two different ways. Bledso, within an hour of that first deal, it was already reported that Bledso was not going

to ever play at Bufus. So analysis of how he would fit in with the team wasn't worth a crap. And I kept saying, just let it all play out and we'll see. Because if there's one thing we've learned about the way the Grizzlies have functioned, it is when they made that Conley deal, it ended up, you know, branching off into about a million different things, you know, where they move Kyle Corver this way, and then they acquired De Anthony Milton, and they do, like they used what they acquired for something else. Same goes with this. They used what they acquired for something else. They

moved blood soap to L.A. They get back, Pat Bev, Rondo, and Daniel Otero. My initial reaction was Otero won't be in Memphis. I don't know where it ends up. Rondo, I would would be stunned if ever shows up in Memphis. Pat Beverly, I thought maybe, maybe. He tweeted out, Grint and Grind. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe he would. So much for that.

On the other hand, your best player and rising star in the NBA is a point guard. They've spent more money than most teams on a backup point guard. They still have Tias Jones on their roster. And so sinking in 20-something minors. million dollars into backup point guards is not, you know, something's got to give. Either Tyos Jones is going to be on the move, which he didn't give me any playoff minutes. So that's what I thought Mike could happen. But instead, this morning, they flipped Beverly to Minnesota for Wancho Hernan Gomez and Jared Culver. Pretty good deal. I like it. It's funny yesterday

on the Ringer NBA show, Jay Kyle, man and I talked about the Clippers Grizzlies. trade and we didn't really touch on the grizzly side all that much because there's there was nothing to discuss it's as you said this was a wait and see deal for the clippers you know we talked about that blood so maybe he you know in a contract year provides some upside or like we said with you know smart at some point with his non-guaranteed deal he becomes a trade piece like it's pretty simple for the clipper side of things for the grizzlies there wasn't much to say but now there is Jarrett Culver only after two years. You go from the sixth pick to this is your value for an expiring and Patrick Brevely.

For the grizzlies, like, hey, why the hell not? Why not? Look, Wachow Hernig Gomez is a player. He's a guy that can play. I like Wancho, yeah. Wancho can play. And I can't believe they got Jared Culver in this deal. Like, I still have my Culver stock.

I get to come by this honest. We've talked about him before. I told you when I saw Minnesota play in person, he didn't even get a minute. And I was like, I don't know, sometimes, sometimes guys get caught. Now, we'll see what happens with his career. But some guys get caught in the middle where he was, he was traded for, you know, on that draft night. He ends up going with the sixth pick in the draft. That was the Phoenix deal, right? The Sorich deal. He ends up becoming the sixth pick in the draft. He's drafted very highly. I mean, You have coaching turnover.

You have front office turnover. And all of a sudden, you have ownership turnover. And all of a sudden, you look up. You're two years into your career. You've had three different guys on the bench. You've had different guys in the front office. You've got different guys that are now going to own the team. And it's like, okay, who was the one that loved me, believed in me?

You know what's upon a time? And that guy's long gone, right? Like, you're not anymore sometimes. And I will say this for many different players throughout the league. And I'm even going to give you a little bit of you're going to like this. Whether or not Frank Nillikina would have ever become something better than what he became in New York. it is without question. Now again, some guys, maybe they didn't deserve to get the long rope and they wouldn't have developed into whatever.

But when you have that many coaches and you have front office turnover and all of a sudden, the guys that brought you in are no longer there, the guys that actually have stock in you aren't there anymore, but you've got a great chance of being buried, right? because what happened even to him was a few years ago, like in key developmental years, much like Culver, in key developmental years, who did they want to look geniuses by taking? They're starting Alonzo Trier. That's where they started because the guys that took Frank Nilekenna in the top 10, they ain't there anymore. The guys that went and found Alonzo Trier and want to look like.

geniuses for their ability to, right? They go and now all of a sudden, David Fisdale is starting a lines out tree every night. So all I'm saying is with somebody even like Nilakina, like he got caught in between where nobody is all that interested in making sure that he develops so that it makes them look good because sometimes the coach is responsible for you, sometimes the players or sometimes the coach is responsible for you, sometimes somebody in the front office. Sometimes it's the owner, but they're going to make sure that they exhaust every opportunity for you to reach your potential. And they'll stick with you through bad times in order for that to happen.

You know, once upon a time, I thought the Grizzly should have given up on Mike Conley. I'm honest about that. A couple years in. But everybody here, their coach, he's the one that stumped for him. so he was going to make damn sure that Mike Conley, whatever was going to become, he was going to reach that potential because he believed in him. But once the people that believed in you are gone,

your chances of succeeding are low. And I mean, ultimately, we'll see with Jared Culver. I mean, there's a lot of question marks with him. He's had some injuries. His shot has not developed in the way that you would have hoped for. Like sometimes when you watch the wolves, his confidence, had none of it at times. He would make a mistake on the floor and, you know, dip his head or get

frustrated. It just seems to me that, you know, whether it's the mental side or like I said, the production on the court with the lack of the jump shot, it just wasn't working in Minnesota. And it may not in Memphis. You know, Taylor Jenkins is a very good coach, a very great motivator. Hopefully that this is the right personality mix for Culver. But even if he gets confidence, he still needs to become a competent shooter. And for Memphis, that's going to have to be the thing for him right now at the stage of his career. He's only 22 years old, still super young.

Look, he's, he's an upside play. You're trading Patrick Beverly, who didn't even suit up for you. And you got Beverly with Bledsoe. You're essentially trading Bledso for- Jericho and-Colver and-Hen-O-Gomis. It's a pretty good deal. And, like, the Grizzlies now, like, how many guys do they? have under contract right now, like 17 or 18.

So this is going to have to be trip out. Yeah. So like there's still more moves to happen, whether these are cuts or whether there's more trades. The Grizzlies still have more moves to make to iron out their roster. But I'll tell you what, Chris. I mean, whether the team, whether the grizzlies are better or worse in terms of record, like that doesn't that doesn't matter this coming season.

Like it doesn't matter if they're better in terms of record. I'd say this team took a step forward in terms of fit. around John Morant and building this thing out because you mentioned it earlier with Stephen Adams. He's your big bruiser. And now you get a full season of Jaron Jackson Jr. who can not have to worry about rebounding. He can do his thing on the perimeter, splashing trees,

coming off screens, doing all things you see guards and wings do. And on defense, he's at his best as that mobile, versatile piece on the perimeter right now at this stage. So I think for him, it's for the best, for Jod's for the best.

And ultimately the development of those guys and Desmond Bean, you know, coming off the bench or starting, you know, getting these young guys to continue getting better. That's what the roster is all about. And, you know, would this fit, why not add Jarrett Culver into this mix and see what happens? Well, and they must have known that this was coming or a possibility. Yeah. Well, the reason I say that, right, yeah, set this up in advance. Oh, yeah. Because it was very curious that Grayson Allen started a lot of.

games for them. And I will tell Milwaukee fans, Grayson Allen, as someone who I was around him, I have never been more, I have never, I've never been more shocked at a guy that I had a perception of him, but then being around him was so radically different. What was your perception? And how, what was it like? I thought he was a

Duke prick that trips people. And probably like, extremely arrogant, whatever else. Grayson Allen is about the nicest guy you could ever meet. It is shocking. Trust me. And I tell you this as someone, like I know all the antics on the court. I know he's,

his teammates loved him. His teammates in Milwaukee are going to love him. And anybody that comes in contact with him ends up walking away, not believing that that's, because I guess I just thought he would be, you know, I don't know, a prick. He couldn't be less of a prick. And he'll help Milwaukee.

But anyway, they moved him for very little, like that Sam Merrill and nothing deal. So that must have been, okay, we know we're bringing in another guy that's going to need, that's going to log minutes, because you already got Desmond Bain,

you've already got to Anthony Melton, and now obviously Jared Colver, another guy that's going to be able to get some wing minutes. I love Desmond Bain. Talk about a guy that had a great summer league. I love this. This is why you got to let these trades flush out. When they move out,

Now, and we'll see what becomes of the Rondo or Toro, that kind of stuff. But you move Valchunis and the 17th pick, and you've got Stephen Adams, Zaire Williams, Jared Culver, and Wancho Hern and Gomez. That ain't bad, even so far, even so far as a return. All right, Summer League, the Summer League championship is going to be happening tonight. It is the Kings and the Celtics. I saw the Kings, got the Davion Mitchell experience,

and my goodness, is it fun. He at least certainly was as advertised as a defender. Also, I don't think he gets enough credit for his offense. He's got a bag of things that he goes to and can be pretty dynamic at times. And the shooting, which I know was a thing going into the draft as he hadn't really been a high percentage shooter, but shot a very good percentage from three last year in a short season. Just watching him shoot, I think he's going to make shots, Kevin.

I do. I mean, I think the guy, I think that's real. He does not look like a guy that got lucky that he made a bunch of three's first season. He looks like a guy that shoot to me because he could shoot off the dribble. It's not just like stand, set my feet, shoot stuff. He can do the stepback stuff. He can do the crossover and create some space and shoot stuff. He can shoot off balance.

Well, I liked him. I did. And I know you talked about some of the Celtics guys. So anyway, just those two that are going to be playing in the Summer League championship, I don't guess we're going to get to Pritchard left, right? Oh, he's back. He picked. Pritcher came back.

He went to hit like the pro am, scored 90. two points, the logo threes. But he's back to win a title now. Richard Mitchell is amazing then. Yeah, that's going to be great drama. Yes.

Really? Yeah, great stuff to watch tonight. Yeah, but yeah, Davion Mitchell, he's been great. Great to watch him.

I think his half court scoring efficiency, according to synergy sports, is a little bit lower than you might expect. But we're talking small sample sizes here. Like, it's nothing to read into. They don't play much half court bass. basketball in Super League.

Exactly. It's not much to read into with the numbers here because he looks dynamic. He looks very much like the guy we saw last season for Baylor. So Davion Mitchell looking great as a number nine pick. It's going to be very interesting to see. I mentioned this on the Ringer NBA show yesterday with Kyle. It's going to be interesting to see how they work out those three guard lineups. The Kings believe that, you know, Mitchell can play some three independent bigger guys.

I look forward to seeing how that works out over the course of the season. And still with Buddy Heel. We'll see if a move happens there too because they have a lot of guards and, you know, smaller wings on their rotation. And, you know, I also think on their roster, Kata, their second round pick, big man, I'm a big fan of Kata. I thought he had a good career at Utah State. I liked him before the draft last year when he took his name out. They didn't necessarily raise his stock maybe as much as he expected to. He still only went 39th instead of last year he was projected around like 45 to 50.

but Cada looks pretty good, man. Seven footer out of Portugal, played two years at Utah State, great shop locker, very, very, very, you know, mobile up and down the court, you know, in transition. I like his game a lot.

And I think he was a nice find for the Kings in that second round. So looking at their drafts with Mitchell and Ceda, they did a nice job there. And on the other side of it with Boston, you know, mostly a lot of, you know, second year guys.

We mentioned knee Smith earlier, who really sucked the beginning of last year, found himself late, continues to look good in Summer League here. He can really shoot. He can stroke threes, dude. He really can. And his defense has gotten better as well than it was in college

when I had some questions at the college level, but he's gotten a lot better there. Pritchard, we already mentioned here earlier. He's been terrific for the Celtics. And then also, I think some other guys like Sam Houser has had some good moments. I liked Hauser in the draft. I think I had him ranked in my top 60,

really good shooter. So, I mean, the Celtics have a really, really strong and deep summer league roster. Their second round pick last year, this year as well. Romeo Langford has been up and down still. Jan Madar has had some really good minutes as well on the defensive end.

They get a really strong in summer league roster. What is fascinating to me is that while it will be the Kings and the Celtics, and it's going to be fun to watch tonight. I think it's fair to say that the team that rightfully feels best about what happened in Summer League, and I know there's going to be some people out there that roll their eyes like Summer League, it doesn't matter, but it does in terms of a fan base that sees their young players, and it gives them a tremendous amount of hope that may be things. are looking up for those young players,

I would say that the team and the fan base that rightfully feels best about what took place at Summer League is the Knicks. Because Obie was fantastic, quickly was great. Last night, they got the kid from Houston that they took late, Grimes, hit six threes, and ends up with 26,

six and three assists. And then that kid they took 36th. Miles McBride, you know, had some real flashes of athleticism and production throughout this. And so that young group of guys, of course, the Knicks wildly outperformed expectations last year in their first year under Tom Tibodeau. And there wasn't a ton of, you.

You know, once you become, once you're good, you know, we talked about the, how difficult it is to serve two masters and develop young players, get those guys on the court while also winning games every night. And Tom Timitoe plays guys like Julius Randall and guys like RJ Barrett 47 of the 48 minutes a night. So there's only one minute available for somebody else. in at least two of the positions on many nights. And he's going to play Derek Rose, and he's going to, you're right. But quickly, it's fascinating because I thought he looked really good. I liked him a lot when I saw him.

And it would be interesting. They brought back Rose. They traded for Kemba. So who knows where he really fits in in the mix, rotation-wise, though he had a very good rookie year. And Obie was not in the mix last year. But, you know, I kind of defended him a few weeks ago, and I said, people have already decided what a guy like Obie Topp is going to be.

And like the story hasn't even begun. And I was glad to see him have some real success at Summer League this year. And maybe it's probably a little easier to see him getting minutes, more minutes and fitting it a little bit more. What do you make of the Quickly thing? And kind of, I don't know. With Kemba and Rose, I don't know. Quickly is built on his, his rookie year.

Obie Toppin has as well, you know, the Grimes and Grimes and McBride. And then not only that, I think the one guy that hasn't gotten a lot of, you know, mentions because McBride and because Grimes have been so good, has been Rokas Yacobatus. their other rookie drafted with the 34th pick. I think he's had some good moments. Granted he out, I don't think he's played in every game for the Knicks off the top of my head, but playing limited minutes off their bench, I was impressed with him as well.

He's hitting shots. He's a talented playmaker as well. So, you know, they drafted, I mean, draft night felt like a bummer for the Knicks because, you know, they didn't get the guys who expected with their two first round picks.

They traded down. But this is why it's so hard to assess these things on the night that it happens. And sometimes you have to wait for things to pan out to see how an entire draft unfolds, how an entire offseason unfolds. Because all three of those guys have looked pretty solid in Summer League. Granted, it's just Summer League. It's just Summer League. It's very important to remember that here.

But early returns, you know, first impressions of these guys. Nix fans have to be excited. We saw those guys get real minutes last year. Yeah. Of course, with topping in quickly, yeah. But what I mean with the rookies that they have? Grimes, I saw a lot of in college because he played for Houston. And so I saw him play against those Memphis teams several times.

He, you know, he was Kansas. He was Kansas recruit. He was massive recruit, like five-star. So that was a huge get for Houston that he transferred there. He was. Quentin Rives was supposed to be a lottery pick. years ago. He was a huge high school recruit. And you also get him Quentin Grimes

credit too because he's turned himself until like a 3 and D role player. No, and he can really shoot, man. He can. He can shoot it. He's an older guy. So I could see Tibbs actually giving him minutes and him being able to contribute quickly.

You know, you know, that's true. We've seen that with many four year players, right? It's a difference between whatever. Like, Rick Carlisle being willing to play Jalen Brunson some minutes, but not Tyrell Terry that they took from Stanford, right? Like some of those, the older coaches, you know, if guys that are just out of college or haven't played all that much,

it's a lot more likely that the seasoned college players are going to be able to get some minutes for the older coaches in the league that are less concerned about development and more concerned about winning every night. because somebody like Quentin Grimes could theoretically help you win games this year. No doubt about it. Especially, I mean, look, like I said, Quentin Grimes entered Kansas a totally different player than he exited Houston. He was more of a shaky and consistent shooter who was more of an on-ball guy entering Kansas out of high school as a top recruit. He leaves school as a guy who's a rock solid,

hard-nosed defender and a reliable high-end shooter. He made some tweaks to his shooting mechanics. He became a reliable knockdown shooter. He shot over 40% last year with Houston. He's shooting over 40% in Summer League with the Knicks on a high percentage. I mean, on a high number of shots per game. He's shooting nine per game in Summer League. This isn't like he's shooting two or three per game.

It's not like your auto Porter hate where he doesn't shoot a lot, where he doesn't shoot a lot of them. Grimes does shoot a lot of them and he makes him at a high rate too. So look at like a really good draft for the Knicks overall so far, especially McBride. McBride. McBride has been so freaking fun to watch, dude. Oh, my God. I mean, I've seen the memes. You've seen the memes going around of him flying over the basket? Like, good grief. This guy is posting TikToks. He's going to Momo Fuku and his jersey. He's already becoming a Knicks. Well, the other thing is this regarding that Grimes think,

Houston won a billion games the last couple of years, right? And how many times if we look back, I could be like, man, how good were they or how were they so good? And many times what we'll find is, oh, that's when so-and-so was there. And the guy was an outstanding, you know, ended up becoming a notable NBA player as time went on. And you look back and it was like, oh, that's when Quentin Grimes was there. They've been, they've been outstanding. I mean, boatload of games. And they had a couple of different guys.

throughout Summer League, honestly, that Houston team that was able to, that were able to play. Nate, Nate Hinton was a Houston kid that was on a team, Deke Jiroe was on a Houston team. Who else? Armani Brooks, that kid was on the Houston team. So, I mean, there's a bunch of them from the Cougars that ended up getting to play. But yeah, Grimes is good. And I think the Knicks, I think Knicks fans actually are rightfully. excited.

But all of it pales it compares to who is most excited. And that is you and I. Because... Why is that, Chris? Why are we excited? Because Luca Garza. Oh, Garza.

And our hope that Luca Garza could actually become a real NBA player that a guy that won collegiate player, player of the year and yet nobody wanted

and is drafted 52nd in the NBA draft what do you end up with 20 and 14 or something the last night he was he was outstanding again

he has now signed a two-way deal and so Luca Garza who knows how many minutes he'll end up getting for the Pistons but Luca Garza signed a two-way deal. He, of course, had a historic collegiate career at Iowa, but he was, you know, by all accounts,

a slow-footed big that played near around the basket, and so it was of no use to people in the NBA, and yet he made threes. He put up two huge double-doubles, and in their finale last night, ends it with 21 points and 15 rebounds, and got himself a two-way contract. So the Luca Garza dream is still alive after getting selected 52nd in the NBA draft.

He was good and he's fun. You know, he's a real throwback. But I love the idea of him becoming, you know, there's just been, there's, I went back and look, Kevin, there's never been a guy like him, like where this has happened, where a guy becomes the Naismith player of the year in college basketball and nobody wants him. Now, not all of them have panned out,

i.e. like the Tyler Hansborough's, but Tyler Hansborough was like a lottery pick. I think Frank Mason might be the lowest, and he was like, you know, at the beginning of the second round, nobody is not even close to being selected 50th, or 52nd, whatever he was picked. I'll tell you what, Chris. with Luca Garza, the offensive skill, no doubt about it, in terms of like what he can provide,

shooting, can pass, he makes all the right decisions, he's a good finisher inside, all of this stuff. The question still is going to remain, what level can he reach defensively? He's definitely better than he was in college, undoubtedly better. And I mean, I might be getting like ahead of myself here, but I do think he can at least survive on defense because he's smart, because he has good positioning. Because he can rebound. Well, he rebound to, you know, coming off the bench in a limited role at the least. I think he can provide that for you because you're not bringing him on the court.

You're not giving Luca Garza minutes because of defense. You'd be giving a minute because you want an offensive spark, right? A spark off the bench doesn't just come from, you know, guards. It's not just like a Jamal Crawford, right? It's not just that mold. A spark can come from a Kuzma. Right? You know, a six, six eight, six nine guy, or can come from a near seven footer like a look at Garza. I mean, it doesn't always have to be a guard. So maybe, maybe that'll be his role in the

NBA as long as he can survive on defense. That's right. That's going to be the question still. And as long as he can rebound the last line of defense is rebounding and he can rebound the ball well. He's always been able to rebound the ball well. Um, I view rebounding as punctuation, right? Like, it's what ends the possession. It ends the sentence. That's right. And he's, you know, He's a five that can shoot threes. Like you're going to have to come out there. And I don't know, man. If Frank the Tank can have a career, this guy can have a career.

You know, and Frank the tank got finals minutes for God's sake. They probably didn't want to have to give him finals minutes, but he did. And when you just drafted Cade Cunningham and you got some nifty guys, Sadiq Bay and whatever, having a five that actually does have to be honored. outside of, you know, the free throw line slash three point line. That's what everybody's looking for, creating space for their dynamic players. And I'm hopeful because I felt bad for the guy, right? The guy is the best college basketball player and nobody wants it.

Like, how does that happen? Like, it's never happened, ever. Not even close. There has never been an. amazing college basketball player like that, that won that award, that somebody didn't draft, like, in the first

35 picks or something. It'd be one hell of a story. Yeah. So anyway, yeah, we're excited. They end up being excited about Luca Garza. I have had, I thought the Summer League, look, I was terrified that when that first game got postponed.

But much like the NBA season, they were able to get this thing done, which is rather impressive, given you know, how scared everybody gets every time to turn on the news, right? Yeah.

Especially with everything that's going on in Vegas, but they were able to pull this off where they had the entire summer league and they had fans there. And we're going to get a championship game tonight. Peyton Pritchard versus Davian Mitchell. Amazing.

Amazing. All right. Well, look, we don't have much time until these teams got to get the rosters together. I was told by some of a month, a little over a month till training camp.

I was told yesterday, I think teams are getting their drafts of the schedule, which would make some sense because I saw Adrian was already putting out some different possible games.

Yes. The Christmas Day is supposed to be announced today. So by the time this pot is out, you'll probably know the Christmas Day games. Okay, well, because those are ones that don't change. So what happens is the league sends out their, they spend a lot of time putting together schedule. They send out their draft to all the organizations. And then the organizations have the opportunity to go in and say, hey, you know, we'd rather not have this or there's some kind of conflict here or there might be a possible conflict here. Is there any way we can move this or this or this? And usually very, very, very, very. little changes, which is why you will start to see reporting coming out in the next 24 to 48 hours about who's got games when, because it's supposed to be, from what I gathered, teams are going to get those within the next 24 hours, thus that being reported, because

as soon as everybody gets there, somebody's going to get the reporters on the phone and say, yep, we play this team then, we play this team then. And so you'll see those leaks of the schedule. I believe for the purposes of fans, you, me, and everybody else planning their upcoming season, I believe that Friday, because I looked it up and I haven't found anybody put that anywhere. But I think Friday is the expectation of when the schedule would then come out and everybody will be able to see it. And all we know now, according to Woj, is that Trey Young and the Hawks are going to return to face the Knicks at Madison Square Garden on Christmas Day.

And then we'll see the Nets and Lakers at Staples Center, potential finals preview. Ooh. Nets, Lakers is already... According to Wodege, those are the two Christmas Day, two of the Christmas Day games. That's amazing, though. They'll be more revealed.

The rant on Christmas Day? That could be great. Yes. This is going to be a great season. It is going to be a great season. And we'll see, you know, obviously we're getting a lot of news with contract extensions and trades and everything. It seems like every day now. And we'll get the schedule and then we'll get these teams.

Now that Summer League's done, everybody's going to flush out their roster and try to figure out who their 15 guys are. And training camp, like you said, just over a month away. Late September, early October, all these guys are going to be rolling up, you know, another season, another shortened off season. a lot of people around the league are, you know, looking forward to next off season already. Oh, really? A lot of executives. It doesn't feel, I mean, like a number of players have said this. It's felt like the bubble to last season was one whole season.

Just with a short little break. It's kind of similar here. But, yeah, I think it's going to be another great year. And I'll tell you what, though, we saw this last year with all the COVID stuff and, you know, some of the injuries. depth is going to be important with another shortened off season here. Some of these deeper, stronger teams, they're built to withstand

whether it's injuries or COVID protocols or whatever, more so than some of these shallow teams are. So that's going to be critical this year, more than any other. Last thing, you obviously did the quick trip to Las Vegas, had some meetings. When you were around talking to people,

whether it was agents or it was players or it was executives, whoever it may be that you were talking to. What did you sense that people were talking about the most? What seemed to be the most common conversation or things that people were buzzing about there? I'd say the Bulls and the Lakers. Those were the two teams that came up in every conversation.

Like how are the Bulls going to fit together? What's this team going to look like? What's their ceiling? Are they a phony team? They're like great on paper, but not going to be great on the court. A lot of talk with people about Russ and the Lakers, how he's going to adapt, how he's going to, how he's going to fit in there, what sacrifices he'll make or whether he won't have to make any at all. Yeah. So those two teams were brought up the most.

And of course, people are talking about what's going to happen with Ben Simmons. And everybody, everybody continues to feel and believe and think based off, you know, their information that there's. Sixers are going to wait on this until it comes a moment they have to make a deal. And if that means things are uncomfortable early in the year, I think Daryl Morey is going to be willing to do that because he wants Damien Lillard. It's simple as that. Darryl Mory wants Damien Lillard. Whether that works out or not remains to be seen.

But that's his plan A. We'll find out if he has to go to plan B, C, D, E, F-G or what. But what happens with Ben Simmons is the other big conversation. I'll tell you this, Kevin. blame him for wanting him. Dude, no kidding, right?

He's like one of the few best basketball players in the world. No kidding. And there's also a chance he's available in a couple of months. Yeah, right. Or now. I mean, who knows? Like,

we can get a wodgeball any day. Like, that could happen, right? That could happen. We've seen this happen before in the past where it doesn't seem like something's going to happen. And then boom,

it does. Yep. So, you know, hold on. You never know. We're like three more making jump shot. videos away.

Yeah. Oh man. A couple more NERC tweets too, right? You know, that that was brought up to me by a lot of people too. They're like, you're like, what's Nourgages problem? It was hilarious. Oh, my God. All right.

Kevin, have a good week. I'm sure there's going to be a million things that take place before we get to speak again on Friday. but I'll talk to you on Friday. Thanks to our executive producer, Sasha Ashall, as always. And Kev, I'll talk to you on Friday. Looking forward to it, Chris.