The Mismatch - Dealing With COVID, the Lakers Are "Two" Top-Heavy, the Issues in Portland, and GOATs Don’t Dance

Episode Date: December 7, 2021

Verno and KOC discuss Joel Embiid’s return to the court after COVID-19 (02:59) and discuss how the virus could potentially derail a team if it's not safe (06:05). The Grizzlies are undefeated since Ja Morant went down with injury, and Verno points out a very interesting stat during their current five-game win streak (08:10). The guys just cannot believe how good Giannis Antetokounmpo is and both believe that the Bucks are the best team in the league right now (27:44). Verno fully believes that the tandem of LeBron James and Anthony Davis are the best in the league, but the Lakers' issues are more deeply rooted (32:52). The guys debate whether Ben Simmons is the answer for the Blazers (40:28) and wonder whether the 76ers would take a trade package centered on CJ McCollum. And as Klay Thompson nears his return, the guys joke that Steph Curry is out to break Klay’s record for most 3-pointers made in a game (55:03). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Football is back, and so is the Ringer NFL show. Coming at you five days a week with wall-to-wall coverage from recapping the Sunday games, giving a player perspective, deep dives, and previewing the coming slate. Check out the Ringer NFL show on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, on today's episode of The Mismatch, Chris Vernon and I recorded before news drop that the D&E interpacers are potentially rebuilding. They're looking to trade Karras Levert and DeMontas Savonis or Miles Turner, according to the athletic sham Sharania.

Chris and I did not talk about that on Tuesday show, but we will on Friday. Also, on announcements. On Wednesday, I'm hosting a podcast called The Void. We're turning my video series into a podcast, and it's going to run every single Wednesday on this mismatch podcast feed that you're listening to now. Chris and I talk about that more at the end of this show.

So let's get to today's episode. For The Mismatch, I'm Chris Vernon. Join me see it as every Tuesday from The Ringer.com. It's Kevin O'Connor, A.K. Kevin O'Brien. climber, Kevin O'Connor, Kevin O'Connor, Kevin O'Candyland, Kevin O Blasarian, Kevin. Verno! What's out this Tuesday? Hey, man. Well, NBA is in full swing and unfortunately, we have a string of COVID announcements that have taken place since we last spoke. You know, hopeful that, especially as the vaccination

numbers were so high, that. maybe a little bit out of the woods on this, but just as of right now, you have Lamello Ball, Terry Rozier, Isch Smith, Mason Plumley, Jalen McDaniels, all from the Hornets, Demarta Rosen, Kobe White, Javante Green from the Bulls,

Bull, Bull, Austin Rivers, yeah, and Bones Highland from the Nuggets, Justin Holliday from the Pagers, I mean, pretty high number, Honestly, Kevin. Yeah, it is. You know, it's very hard to gauge some of these teams and some of these games. We've had a slew of injuries, so guys are in and out of lineups.

And now with the COVID thing, you got guys in and out. Even despite that, you have last night Philly playing the thriller against that Charlotte team and Embed with a season high 43. And so the games are still going on and guys still have to perform. And it was nice to see the best of Joel Embed. I mean, both ends, too. I mean, huge block when it mattered most. And, you know, Embed, who had a really, really rough go with COVID.

And coming back from it, it's good to see him getting back into Joel Embed, one of the best players in the league form. Yeah, for sure. I mean, just first on the COVID stuff, it's too bad. you know, the vaccines don't necessarily stop transmission. There wasn't an expectation of that necessarily, but, you know, for the NBA, it's in all sports, it's still something just dealing with here. But ultimately, they do stop serious, you know, illness for the most part in most cases.

And for Joelle Abed, he did say he was affected by it and still dealing with it when he first got back in the court. But bam, you wouldn't have known it watching him against Charlotte, Chris in that game last night. Granted, it was against the Hornets team missing a lot of guys, missing, you know, starters, missing size. But for Joel Labede, you know, he also had a great game against Atlanta. But he didn't look better in quite a while. Maybe Minnesota, was it a couple weeks ago against Minnesota? He had a really good game. But Joel Labid looked more and more like himself, the dominant two-way force that he is.

Yeah, and then one of the names that I passed over when I was going through that list is, is the guy who has been, I think, one of the top two or three stories of the NBA this year, which is the free agent signing of Demar de Rosen. Yeah. And then his performance, and he's coming off like a six-game stretch where he's averaging over 30 points a game. Bulls humming along, you know, look like a home court advantage team in the Eastern Conference. Wins Easter Conference Player of the Week yesterday. It's announced he and Donovan Mitchell in their respective conferences,

and then it's announced that he's entered COVID protocol. And the Bulls are still able to win without him against the Nuggets, but it just sucks, man. It sucks because all of these teams, you know, with the, I guess I'm just struck, Kev, by there is such a small margin between these teams that the majority of them, their seat is going to be decided by two or three games. And that could be the difference between drawing an epic opponent in the first round of going home early

or drawing somebody that is intensely beatable and being able to move on. And 10 days or two weeks, whatever it may be, or this length of time for even, say, Charlotte, without their guys, could really cost teams at least playoff seed. Sure. And at worst, the playoffs or the play in completely, you know. And that's why this is so significant because the margin is so small. A lot of times in many years, if you had a couple, if you had a two-week stretch where you didn't do so hot, you could overcome that.

This year, I mean, it's going to be very difficult to overcome. simply because the margin is just so small between these teams. Yeah, I mean, in the east, the difference between the Nets at one and the Nix at 11 is only five games. Yeah. It's really tight right now. I mean, to your point, Chris, like we see how the dramatic difference in teams just without one guy. It makes depth during the regular season of the utmost importance to have the ability to replace somebody. But come playoff time, I wonder if in the...

this kind of world that we all have to navigate in right now. If at that point, you're just not going out, you're not going out to restaurants, you're not going out to dinners. If you're a team, you're not doing anything that risks, you know, being around groups of people at all, like some players might be during the regular season like anybody is, you know, living their life after getting vaccinated. But maybe during the playoffs, it has to go back to the way it was, you know, last year for a lot of players where you're kind of living in your own bubble to a little.

avoid transmission because if you get a positive diagnosis and even if it's a false positive like LeBron James, you might miss an important game three. And if it turns out that it is indeed a positive diagnosis with or without feeling any symptoms, you get a miss time until you get those two negative tests and you can miss an entire playoff series and that can change everything. So it's like this brand new variable that teams are still having to account for. And having depth or guys that can elevate their roles in a specific way, like for Chicago, you're talking about scoring, somebody who can take on more of a scoring load. Levine would have to do more. But it's really hard to replace even role players, never mind star players.

I do think that speaks to Chicago and the job they've done. Yes, they did sign DeRosa, but you've had Caruso's been banged up too, who has been essential to their success. throughout the early season. And so to still be able to get wins despite missing a couple of extremely important guys at any point is certainly impressive. And that leads to this Memphis team who now has won five games in a row

since losing their best player. Now, it wasn't the COVID. It was to a knee injury. So it wasn't the COVID, but not only have they won five games in a row, they have never been behind. How is that possible, Chris. Any of the game. How's that possible? Well, I'll tell you this. How about this one? You're ready for this cap? Last night, so it was never been tied or behind. Last night, the Grizzlies Miami score was 2 to 2. Oh, wow. That's when it was tied. Really? That's it. And then from then on, so they have been, so it was they had not, so now the stat moved to they have not surrendered the league, right? Right? Like, they have not surrendered the league. They have not surrendered the league.

lead, but I will tell you it was two to two. You gotta give, this is a weird stat. I saw at Grizz Analytics tweet this out. You gotta give Stephen Adams some credit for this. Stephen Adams has won an NBA best 24 jump balls in 29 opportunities this season, and he has a nine-game streak of winning the opening tip for the Grizzlies. So Adams is winning jump balls.

Now, I don't want all the books to catch up to this, but I should have. Oh, really? No, no, no. I know I should have mentioned this last week. I had a guy run up on me in the Jersey game, and here's what he told me. He said, Stephen Adams wins every jump ball. Okay? So you go look it up.

He does lead the league. Yeah. Okay. So on these gambling sites, you can bet first basket of the game. So Desmond Bain on many cases was like, say, like a plus 800 or a plus 600 or Dylan Brooks. And so what these guys were doing that I ran up on, they were spraying the board with the grislies. And you win like hell because they score the first bat.

Like you get these long odds. But if he wins every jump ball, you're going to at least get first crack at it. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you get pretty good odds. Pretty good odds. If you get the ball first, that's a major advantage. Of course. And then, so some of these guys had been betting like Desmond Bain,

who had these big first quarters or whatever. And so there's a little trick, and I don't know if the lines have evened out now. Maybe the world is going to catch on to it. But not only Stephen Adams, he's also anchoring a defense, which I believe I read this morning, it's the first time in the last two seasons that a team has held their opponent under 91 points or under in four straight games. Now, that's insane.

These are some wild stats, man. They were the worst defensive player. They were the worst defensive team in the league. They were 30th. 30th. Yeah, this season, this year at one point, they were. A week and a half ago. Exactly.

They got beat by Minnesota by 40 frigging points. They couldn't stop anybody. And then they flipped it. Now, they have, in fairness, they played. Toronto at Toronto without, you know, Gary Tred Jr. was out for that game. And then they played Sacramento, who was down a couple guys. They were down Harris of bars. Okay, C, another.

Obviously they beat OKC by 73. And then Jimmy Butler has absolutely, he tried to play last night. He had no business on a basketball court. For anybody that saw him, and he ended up like in the third quarter, I mean, he was, he took a fall and I guess he fell on probably on that tailbone. but he was limping around the court. That's not good for Miami. And then he sat down, well,

especially because Ardabio is going to be out until, you know, at least mid-January. And Baller's been an all-NBA guy this year. I mean, he's been terrific. And well, look, we all chalked up the,

last night was actually the very impressive one because it's on the road against Miami. Miami still has a sore spot. They drilled the Grizzies earlier this year because Morant hit a game winner over Jimmy Butler last year and did this whole call call 12 thing where he put the phone up to his year and celebration so they came to Memphis earlier this year and beat him by a thousand and I think there was a even though they said Jimmy Butler was questionable everybody was like he

is not missing that game because he was barking at Dylan Brooks in the first one telling the bench to get him off of him he can't guard me and I mean they had they had a little they have a little beef. But the biggest thing is you take a very young team. And after they win at Dallas, they go and it's a Sunday night that they're off in Miami. And then they turn around and they're playing Miami on a Monday. Like, let's just say, I chalk that one up as a schedule of loss. I mean, you got a bunch of 22-year-old millionaires and they get to go hang out of Miami the one time that they get to go down there. And it happens to be a Sunday night. Like, probably. Probably not going to get the best effort the next night.

Instead, I mean, they held Miami to under 91 and they win again. And speaking of the whole you can go on a little run, they won five games. They're the frigging four seed right now. Chris, their defense goes from 30th until November 28th from the five-game winning streak starts to first since November 28th. Is there anything different that's happening for Memphis to go from worse to first to first? defensive reading. Granted it's a small stretch of games. It's still five street games. Staying in front of people, communication.

They have had some guys out there playing out here Williams a ton and he's been out for some amount of time. And again, that's not a knock on him. It's just it's hard to play rookies. And you have guys that have played together communicate. They had gotten a little better defensively when Dylan Brooks came back anyway. And I do think that, you know, after a while, it kind of takes time to figure out everybody's role.

And certainly that front court of Adams and Jackson can be devastating defensively. Yeah, Jackson's had some unbelievable moments on defense this year, especially defending on the perimeter. I mean, he can move laterally for a big. Adams gives Jackson the ability to do the Janus thing sometimes, which is help. Rome a little bit. Yes, yeah, yeah. Yes, help.

And so, you know, they've been part of its opponent, too. Come on. Of course. And here's a major thing. And this is the ultimate regression to the mean. If you looked, yes, they had the worst defense in the league. They were also dead last in opponent three point percentage. Teams were shooting mid-40% against them for the season.

Yeah. And now nobody can make an open shot. So, and some of those shots are there. still, right? But everybody made everything against them for the first month of the season. Like, you didn't catch any breaks. Even if your defense broke down, they still just made the shots. And for teams as a team to be shooting like 43% from three, there was inevitably going to be some regression to that. But it does play a part. They were shooting first, you know, 19 games until November 28th, like I said, teams were shooting 40.

That's unbelievable. From three against Memphis. As a team. As a team. 40.7. Yeah. And not just one team, but 19 games. And by the way, teams shoot like 43s a game.

Yeah. So when you're running up against that and everybody's hitting 40%, you're dead. It's a little bit of opponents they're facing now. It's probably a little bit of, you know, effort and communications better. It's a lot of factors, but boy, it's also three-point shooting because now teams are shooting 27.7% against Memphis over the last five games. The reality is that they're not the worst defense in the league. They're not the best defense in the league.

They're probably somewhere in the middle. And when you're job back playing in an MVP level, that's fine for where this team is in their trajectory right now. Well, and I'm going to speak to this because they are fourth right now in the Western Conference standings. and I think that while I'd love to tell you that says everything about Memphis, they went on a five-game run and now they're fourth. Everything can change so drastically within a week.

I do think this is what it speaks up. There's three really good teams in the West Cove. There is. There's three really good ones. And then the rest are fighting. I really believe that. You've got Golden State, you've got Phoenix and you've got Utah. I think that's very, very fair, Chris.

And then there's everybody else. Yeah. And so it's just going to matter on who can play well, who can hit a run. And their win before Miami, when you were talking about all of these teams having to make it with depth. And Memphis is a great example of making it with depth, given that they're winning without their best player. I watch Dallas without Dantzich. They're Rambors without Dantzit's been atrocious. But they're without Dantzich and they're without Porzengis.

and it does expose, you know, what they've done. Now, Desmond Bain had 29 against them and said, they had the 18th pick in the draft. And they didn't say they liked me. He said, I don't think Josh Green played tonight. That was something else. Damn, that's tough. That's tough.

I love some good trash talk. I'm going to tell you something. And because Luca covers everything up, right? I guess it just never don't. on to me until I'm watching that game. And I'm sorry, Mavs fans, because I'm sure this has been a long-time topic that you've groused about forever.

Their draft history is abominable. Yeah, they've had a lot of wiffs, Chris. I'm talking 20 years of it. Like, 20 years. Just you go up and down their draft classes, and it's just incredible, The Luca is obviously the, you know, the one clearly since Dirk, really. I mean, they had like a job, I think Josh Howard made an all-star team that drafted him, the back-have.

Now, they haven't had a, they traded a lot of picks and they haven't had a lot of high picks, but my God. I mean, and it just goes to show that when you have your best player out, kind of, what else do you have? And especially in the absence of Porzingas, they're just, they're just, they're, is not much there. And I don't know the path, you know, in order to getting to getting more. It's like Jalen Brunson in recent years

was a good one. Not much, you know? It's unbelievable. It's like stuff from the 90s, like J.Kid. You know, it's stuff from the 90s. It's really good. Yeah. I know. 30 years ago. I mean, and then you have the tractor trailer

for Dirk Trey, which was amazing. Of course, yeah. And then you have the, trade for Luca trade, which is great. But, I mean, that's in a long period of time. But you win so much and you have so many 50-win seasons and it just covers it up. I mean, I covered a team just like this, right? They had seven straight playoff appearances and screwed up the draft for 10 years

and it wasn't as big a deal because the team was good. But when you see now, and now you have the whole build-around Luca thing, which is their charge to do. and it just, when you see it without him, it's shocking. Yeah. You realize what he brings to the table, right? Yeah, I mean, I think for Dallas, you bringing up their picks is interesting, is I think that year with Josh Green and Tyrell Terry, in theory, those picks made sense.

I mean, with Terry, there's some other factors that are influencing his career in a negative way, don't basketball stuff. But with Josh Green, it just hasn't worked out. I mean, he came in as a raw player, but in theory, it made sense with him as a three-indy guy who could hit spot-out threes and defend multiple positions. But in hindsight, drafting the more sure thing in Desmond Bain would have been the way to go. Because with Desmond Bain, you could say all the same things like, look, everybody, everybody on NBA drafts winner like Desmond Bain. Everybody. Because everybody, because Desmond Bain was so obviously going to be at least a quality rotation guy.

It turns out he could be much, much more than a quality. rotation guy. It turns out that maybe he's not an all-star, but he's one of those guys who's competing for you, night in, night out, influencing winning with his ability to make plays all over the court on both ends of the core. I mean, Desmond Bain,

what is your son thing about Desmond Bain? What do kids think about Desmond Bain? They love Desmond Bain. And here's the thing. They, development-wise, he played point guard for the Summer League team. They gave him the ball. They did.

At TCU he could handle, but he's gotten even better, like more skilled with his dribbling. He now makes a ton of plays going to the basket, dunking, cutting. He's gotten more athletic. Yes. I mean, he was, but he's gotten even better at all those things. And a much better ball handler. Yes. Much better ball and theator.

Who can initiate offense. He was more straight lines at TCU. He's like doing like some hezies, changing directions and shooting off the bounce. And that's the big thing for him, really. He could shoot off the catch last year now. doing it off the balance from mid-range two, not just from three. Yep. And while the Grizzlies have won these games, the hottest team in the NBA is not them, Kevin.

No, it's not. It is the Houston Rockets who lost 15 in a row and have now won seven in a row. You will never believe this. That's never happened. A team that lost 15 games in a row has never turned around and won seven games in a row. And look, I had, I had. had my rant a few weeks ago after seeing them in person thinking it was doing a colossal disservice to their guys. And I will say, as they always say, sometimes you're an injury away

from being much better. I mean, it's the serve two masters things, right, which is what is good for player development, what is good for competitive basketball, and can you get those things to a line. And one of my grand issues, while there were some Rockets fans that were mad at me saying, like, well, they're trying to see if Kevin Porter can play the one or play, you know, if Jalen Green can be the guy that initiates, because I was saying they didn't play with the point guard. Well, now, you know, they're playing Garrison Matthews, who's got some years in the league. They're, Aaron Gordon's playing like 30-something minutes a game. Like, they are, they, they, Deshaun Tate, who's been outstanding for them. I love Tate. Is in the lineup.

Like, they have guys that they can play in order to make them competitive. And so this to me, this is the path. You're still not going to be that good. But if you can instill some confidence in those guys, if you can on a regular basis, be in game, play competitive basketball against teams. While you can't serve two masters like that, you still, and now Jalen Green has been out. Right. But they have these guys. You also are probably doing a lot towards increasing the Gordon trade value, who was a complete non-asset. You know, it screwed him up last year because he got hurt right before the trade deadline. And so you know they were going to move him. And he had some value. And now he's playing well and has some value for a team out there, right? That's somebody that's going to be looking for a two guard. that would be able to take it on.

Eric Gordon still got basketball left in him, but for the meantime, you know, Christian Wood has exploded. They've gone less with the two big thing, and they played some guys on that team that can play, and those guys are getting minutes, and you're always going to be the team this year, especially given last year,

that another team comes in and says, we'll turn it on in the fourth quarter. Yeah. People did it to Oklahoma City a million times last year, and Oklahoma City was catching so many of those teams that they had to actively try not to win at the end of the season because they were, they were like, you know, teetering torch 500 for God's sake.

Now, I don't think Houston has any chance of that, but I do think just putting these guys in a competitive environment, having some success while winning. some games does so much more for their development than just rolling them out there to give them 35 minutes while they're playing, you know, 30 minutes of garbage time. Yeah, I mean, I think for them also when it comes to playing more competitive basketball, one of the things they're just simply doing more is one of the things that they're most efficient at, and that's just using Christian Wood as a screener.

Before they won that first game of this win streak, Christian Wood was setting 20 picks per game, 20 on ball screens per game. He was setting in the game since then, 39, 45, 36, 9 in a 9-minute game when he got hurt early, 36, and then 27. So he's averaging well over 30 screens per game, nearing 40 screens per game. They've pretty much doubled the amount of time they're saying, hey, Christian Wood, you're a lob threat. You can pick and pop for threes. You can attack, close us. you were one of the best screeners in all of basketball.

We're going to do that more. So they've basically doubled it and their offense has been significantly better. Christian Wood is looking more like the guy who was averaging over 20 points for a game last season, simply by having him do it more. So I think that's a part of it. And that's why Chris, you were saying like with John Wall, let him play, let him play with Christian Wood, because they can get even better results out of it by putting a point guard like him. But ultimately right now, I mean, we kind of poke fun.

I poke fun at them starting Gary. Harrison Matthews over John Wall. Garrison Matthews has been pretty good for them. The team that is the one that has impressed me the most probably over the course of the past couple of weeks, because, you know, things like the Rockets thing, the Grizzlies thing, like those things can come and go throughout the season. But when we're talking about the best teams, obviously we've got to watch the Warriors play against the Suns. and they, you know, evened that up against each other. But one thing that has happened maybe a little bit in the shadows is after what was kind of limping out of the gates, I think started six and eight or something.

To me, Kevin, the bucks look like the best team in the Eastern context. Oh, yeah, they do right now. They finally got all their guys. And when they have had Janus and they have had Middleton and they have had holidays, they've been devastating. Devastating. You know, they get to do it for all. You know, they have that chemistry now with each other

after being through it, after playing in the playoffs, after going and winning the finals. Janus, I think he had 27 and 27 minutes on his 27th birthday. And you know the most shocking thing of that? When you sit there and you take it a consideration that he's 27 years old. and getting better every year. I mean, that is, it's almost implausible

to think of him as a 27-year-old to me. Like, given his, given what he's done already? Winning a finals MVP, two-time MVP, defensive player of the year, given all that. And the fact that DeMargar Rosen is at the peak of powers at 31. Yeah. What the F is this guy going to? to be like the idea that we haven't seen the best of when he had maybe i think it was the

either top one or two p er seasons these last two seasons have been like two of the best in the history of the NBA the idea that he could be even more effective than he has been that we have not seen the best of him is frightening yeah downright frightening. Like, this, what we've already seen might not be what he is capable of. He had 50 in a closeout game in the finals. That's typically everybody's apex, right? But I know the age is 27 is usually when guys start to hit their prines.

he is quite clearly the best player in the NBA right now I mean I mean like it's it's quite clear right yes I mean I'd say for a little while there was an argument about who it was I'd say him and Durant and Yokic and Curry

yeah it's kind of those four right now that are I think probably a step above everybody else Is there any chance LeBron can play himself back into that? Do you think LeBron still has that gear in him during the regular season or during the playoffs? Like this is regular season basketball, LeBron's on Coast mode. Do you think LeBron still has that gear in him to be like, yeah, no, actually, I'm the best player, not just on a single night, but period. I'm just still just the best player.

I think that, how do I say this? I think that in one-offs. Like one night, LeBron, like LeBron can be the best player on a given night, but he's not the best player over the course of a year. That's what I say the difference is. In one-offs, absolutely. There will be those nights.

He'll have a 36, 12, and 12, and everybody will be like, see? The difference is the Janus's and the Curries and the Durants of the world, they can do it. it the whole time. So when you ask me in these, yes, for a game, maybe even a series, you know, possibly, could you be the best player? What people, you know, can he have that gear?

Of course, right? I'm, I will never doubt. Oh, yeah. That being possible. On the other hand, the consistency of greatness is now something that is, that's for the younger guys. To me, you know what I mean? And that's how he was. That's how he was. for 15 years for God's sake. Some of those younger guys are still pretty old. Durant is 33. You know, so it's not like

those other guys were talking about are all super young. Yokic and Yonis are I mean, what is Yokic? Yolkich is 26 years old? Yeah, 26. So he's really young too. And Yokic Yolk is another guy. He wins an MVP last season and he comes back even better on the

defensive end of the court. I mean, what was it? Two years ago people were still talking about Oh, well, Yokos is a great offensive player, but defensively, he's a liability on your team. Last year he becomes a good defensive player, quite clearly. This year, he is in conversation for all defensive teams' second spot. I'm not sure he'll end up getting it, but he's at least on the list of guys who deserve consideration

for one of the 10 spots on those teams. And I would just say this. In the series between those guys that we mentioned and him, I would be surprised if he was the best player on the first player on the floor for the course of a series. That's how I think of No, no, no. LeBron.

Oh, over the course of a full series. Over the course of a series, I would be surprised if he is the best player on the floor in a series that included Janus. See, that's, that's, I would be surprised. I'd be surprised if he's the best player in a series that includes Curry. That's a change, Chris.

That's a shift. Yes, yes. That's a massive shift. If that's something that you and many, many people, do I have the best player on the floor? Do I have the best player on the floor? player on the floor in this series. Going into a series, would you rather have

Janus or LeBron? You'd rather have Janice right now. Would you rather have Curry or LeBron? You'd rather have Curry right now. I mean, so that's all we're saying. Exactly. But we are saying that. And what does that mean for the Lakers? What does that mean for them? They're 12 and 12 right now. They've been pretty... I mean, yeah. I mean, they've been pretty good with LeBron when he's been healthy.

But he hasn't played the whole time. He had the COVID thing and all that. What does that mean for them? You yourself said earlier that Golden State, Phoenix, Utah, clear three. The Lakers, what moves can they make? They don't have many assets in terms of picks or players?

Are they just a cut below? All these other teams in the West right now, do they have their one year winning the finals? And that's it? Or is there something the Lakers can do to get back on that level? Because this wasn't supposed to be the way it feels at the first.

moments. At the moment, it doesn't feel like they're on the level of the Warriors' sons or jazz. Is there anything? The thing that's disturbing to me about their trajectory is I think for a lot of these teams that have been put together, you say, look, just give it time. It's going to take a while. They're not used to playing with each other. When it gels, it's going to be devastating. This was the lesson of the heat many, many years ago, right? I just don't see. those guys falling into roles in that way. I have a hard time believing that it's all going to come together and they're going to be devastating for a run

like that heat team was once upon a time many years ago. Because those guys kind of fell into, Wade fell in to his role, Bosch fell into his role. And then the role players that were around them that never particularly got credit. Like, they're really good role players around them on those Miami teams.

Those role players, A, they're not necessarily role players on that Lakers team. And it's just hard to see AD and Westbrook falling into roles around LeBron in the same way. Now, saying that, in the end,

we know it's a talent league. And if you have a healthy LeBron and you have a healthy Davis going into the playoffs. Again, as I said, I would rather have those individual players, but as a tandem, LeBron and Davis are the best. I'm sorry. They're the best tandem. Now, I don't know how Westbrook fits into that.

But in terms of if you gave me any two guys to go into a playoff series with, any like if you said forget the one guy give me two guys and i could go into the playoffs i'd still take them if they're both healthy i'd take them over any duo i would take them going it again just for the playoffs i'm not talking to regular season when most of the time they don't give a crap even over CP3 and booker even over yes go barren mitchell even over step and one hundred percent clay yes even over Paul George and Kauai Leonard returns and he's fully healthy. Any of them. Even now, you take 80 in the bond over all of those duos.

They're not the problem. The problem's the rest of it. They eft the whole thing up. They effed it up. They really did. The Caruso thing, the moving, you know, they had some trade assets. And they moved it for Westbrook. Who was never, I mean, anybody that thought that was an idol,

deal fit. That's one of those like, here's the talent, now figure it out. Yeah. I mean, we even talked about that, how the regular season was about getting it to work. And maybe that's still what it is. It still could be that. I mean, I think it's important not to lose sight of that that we like literally in early October, we're saying, oh, the regular season for the Lakers is about figuring out how to get things to work with Russ and AD and LeBron. This is what they were though, Kevin. They were amazing defensively, and now they still. think that's the difference. And you say

they were the number one defense. You're saying it's everything else, but is 80 also not defensive player of the year of caliber 80 right now? I don't think he's the same level at the moment. LeBron at the moment, like last year, LeBron,

again, he's in the big pile of guys who were like, okay, I'll consider him for one of the forward spots on an all defensive team. Like, LeBron was in that conversation. Very good. I don't feel like either of those guys are defending at the same calibers we've seen them do in the past either.

Well, and they're not going to during the regular season. And it might be Coast Mode from the two most important defensive players, but also, like you said, losing all the other guys that you did from Kuzma to Caruso, that undoubtedly makes a massive difference. Because defense is more than one or two people.

It's five people. There's every once in a while, though, where you see both of them totally locked in. I'll be interested in seeing there's a game tonight. They're actually, they're playing the Celtics. Yeah. And so there are the flashes when you watch them every once in a while when they're totally locked in for like a five-minute span.

And I'm talking even if you just got those two guys totally locked in, it's a massive problem. They're both just so big and they're both and they're on both levels. You know, LeBron and the playoffs defends in a way that he does not defend her the regular season. You know, he plays with that. Last year and the year before, he had some really. good moments on defense. Yes. And he can be pretty devastating as a defender when he wants to. Yeah. And so that's all I'm saying. But I don't trust the ancillary part anymore. Yeah, I mean, we'll see. I mean, I think the last win the Lakers had against the Kings, 80 second half on

defense, he looked like Anthony Davis, the guy who's in defensive player of the year conversations. And so that was one of those moments where you see him defending Sacramento all over the floor, where you're reminded of, oh, this is what AD can be on both ends of the core, where he's putting up 25.7 rebounds, three assists, two steals, two blocks, not turning the ball over, scoring with efficiency, and dominating on defense. They still has an end-a-law. They are capable of it. Yes, they are.

There's no question. It's just hard when it's Avery Bradley and Carmelo Anthony and Bobo Malone or whoever they put out there. Bobo Malone. I'm a big fan of him. I got his out-worker-year card. Holographic, actually, Chris. The Shams and Sam Amick story about Dame. Oh, boy.

Oh, boy. So you had done the void last week on this particular topic and about, and now we have seen as Dame's been out with the abdomen thing, McCollum has been a little banked up, and Portland's dropping games. Then the news came down Friday right after we recorded that the Nieloshe thing was over. and that they were getting rid of him. And, you know, you have these topics about this, which is basically it gets leaked out.

Oh, Dane would like to be in Portland, but obviously he wants to have a chance to win a title. He has absolutely no chance of winning a title with the roster that they've got. So he's open to guys, you know, being moved, and he'd like to play with Ben Simmons. Okay. Like, it's all, it's all, so we know that they had talked prior about a Simmons McCollum framework. Okay.

Here is the big thing, though. Like, how fast are, is the Allen family, Jody Allen got to go and get somebody to run this organization? You know, not on an interim basis, but the hiring and then implementation because nothing can happen until. that happened, right? There's been some names that have come out, but I would imagine you've got to do that quickly. Yeah. Because they are in the middle of it.

You got your star saying it doesn't, and you read it, it's like, it doesn't sound like, Dame doesn't want to leave Portland, because otherwise you would just have it printed out. He's done, he's tired of Portland. He doesn't want to leave. He wants to stay.

No, he wants to be there with better players around him. You know, that's the kind of the pressure, being put on, right? Yeah, exactly. You think we're just hurtling towards what felt as a logical trade over a year ago, which is some type of framework with Simmons and McCollum involved. We'll see.

I mean, we'll see. I don't know. I mean, I don't know how that's going to play out. Daryl still wants Damien Millard. How does that play out? I don't know. How much does he really want C.J. McCollum when you get Seth Curry playing at a high level.

And McCollum's a better player, to be clear. I feel like McCollum, through all of this, has been a little bit underrated in some ways. This is a guy who can get you a bucket in a playoff series in a late fourth quarter when defenses are locking in. He's proven that. Like against Denver when he won the damn series? Time and time again, McCollum has proven he can give you that.

Seth Curry is not. I mean, it's a different level in terms of the on-ball scoring ability. Seth Curry and McCollum could be actually. quite fun to watch together if that were to happen. You could go watch old Portland tapes if you want. Yeah, you could, yeah. That didn't last long, unfortunately.

But yeah, I mean, I think it makes a lot of sense on paper for both sides, Chris. I do. I mean, I don't want to beat a dead horse with Ben Simmons in Portland here, but I think he could play the Dreamon role. Just put that aside here. On the Philly side,

McCollum has never played with a big like Joe L. Embedde. And Joe L. Embedde has never played with a perimeter scorer like C.J. McCollum. And Embed has some flaws in terms of a screen and roller. He doesn't roll hard. He's not necessarily a lob threat like some of the traditional

seven footers. But it'd be nice to see him with a guard who can actually run that at the level McCollum can. So I get excited about the potential of that in Philadelphia. But for them they, for now there's no reason to rush into making a deal because

of McCollum's flaws that everybody's been talking about recently. Maybe there is, though, Kev, because as we just talked about, the margin is going to be so small, and you're basically a 500 team who just had your best player go for a season high, and you won by three against the Charlotte team with nobody. And for Portland, they're falling apart. They've lost three games in a row, six of their last seven. So there is actually on both sides to me of significant, pressure. You could. You could say that, yeah.

You could really, look, if you're Philly, you could really screw this thing up to where you have to face Milwaukee in the first or second round, you know? I mean, I would- Or you have to face one of these, one of these bare teams at the, in the first round, because you played, you know, a quarter to a third of the season at 500, you know? I would just say this, though, Chris, when it comes to that pressure, it feels. like pressure in the moment right now, but in reality, Philadelphia, despite the fact that Bedsmas time, is still only three and a half games back from the Nets for the number one seed in the east.

It is so close and so compact between all of those teams in the Eastern Conference that I'm not sure that pressure really exists. You watch them. There's a lot of basketball left to be played this season. You could still wait till February. You still could. They're not elite in their current state.

Yeah, I know they're not a home court advantage team. If they just played this out with this roster, they would not be a home court advantage team. Oh, yeah. I mean, they might not be. I think that's very fair. But I'm saying between now and February, there's still a lot of games to be left to be played even after February,

where you can make up some ground if you do wait until then. So the pressure is definitely increasing. But I still don't feel it's at a point where Philly needs to throw themselves into a deal. Unless it's to a point that, you know, it's, you can't say no. Well, it feels like, you know, Portland's at the center of so much of this. It's going to be really funny when the Simmons deal happens elsewhere. And we've been talking about a Portland Philly deal forever.

And we don't even, like, again, we still don't even know who is going to run Portland and then what their ideas are. you know, that everything on that roster is Neil Losey's roster. That's 10 years, you know. And he put that old thing together. You hire somebody, especially if you hire somebody from outside, they get their own ideas about Portland and that roster. They're going to want to change it up. I mean, inevitably.

Everything, everything has already changed with Portland. Paul Allen passes away three years ago. his sister, Jody Allen, takes over. Neil O'Shea, who ran the team for 10 years, is getting replaced. McGowan, their former CEO on the business side, he steps down during this investigation. Terry Stott, longtime coach, gets changed for Chanty Billups. The only thing that hasn't changed is the core of the roster. And you can look at what Jody Allen and Bert Cold, their vice chair, is doing with the Seattle Seahawks right now.

there's reports this week about maybe changing the front office in Seattle. Pete Carroll's time could be nearing it in there. The Seahawks have their own disgruntled star in Russell Wilson who flirted with demanding and trade this offseason. Maybe there could be changes in order to that front office, to that coaching staff, to that roster with their other professional sports team in the Seattle Seahawks. So there's a report this week from NFL Network that Jody Allen is very involved with what the Seahawks are going to be doing.

We haven't gotten that reporting. with her involvement in what's happening with Portland, to my understanding the person underneath her, Burt Cold, is taking on a lot of those kind of responsibilities of running things there. So we'll see how things play out here. I think you nailed it, though, Chris, when you said, they get to find whoever it is that's going to run this organization,

run the front office, they get to find that person fast. Whether it's Cronin and Cold and this collective of the front office of a past regime kind of working together to build something new, or whether it's bringing in someone externally, they've got to find that person fast and figure this out because there's the two paths. I talked about this with Bill on Sunday's pod. You can go down a blow-it-up route, trade dame,

and go down that path. You can go down the path of, let's do everything we can to build around this guy, and they should go down that, let's do everything to build around dame path. It's just a matter of what moves are actually going to be there. Form a column when there's not a lot. There's not a lot.

Well, and just two things more. on the Nealoshi thing, which you did not get to talk about last week. Number one, if you were having the guy investigated and you knew this was, you know, if you're there at the organization, you know this is coming down the pike. That's why this not being a very quick turnaround is surprising to me. Now, maybe inevitably our luck is it'll get announced who's running the port of the trailblazers, as soon as we get done reporting this podcast. So let me just say that in advance.

But you've known, I mean, you were doing this, and theoretically, you had somebody investigate this, you got the study, you found out, okay, are we going to be able to fire this guy and not pay him without a huge lawsuit that will lose? That's the way this stuff goes. And so you've known for a long time that you didn't want this guy running the organization,

you brought somebody in hoping to find, you know, nefarious things about him, which you did. You should have had whoever you're going to have run at the place lined up. Unless they do. Honestly. Unless they do, Chris. What if it's just Joe Cronin and Bird Cold? I don't know. Come on.

Could be. There was already names that had come out. Yeah. Nayshanne Prince came out. Agents for coaches and executives text you all the time like, hey, oh, yeah, my guy's a candidate for so-and-so. And, like, sometimes they are. but sometimes they're not. A lot of those names come out,

and they probably will be interviewed and maybe they can be candidates, but maybe their favorite is Joe Cronin. He could be the favorite. They want a clean house. Wouldn't you think they want to clean house? They got rid of the president, now they got rid of the GM.

What do you still want? You just want to start anew. That's what I would think. They didn't clean everything, though. They still got Bert Cole is there from 1988. He was college roommates with Paul Allen. They ran the Blazers together. They ran the Seahawks together.

They ran Vulcan Paul Allen's company together. And now he's taking a prominent role underneath Jody Allen, helping steer their ship here. So not everything's gone. Not everything's gone. And maybe they like Joe Cronin. I mean, I don't know a thing about him. I don't know anything about him in terms of if he's actually good, a talent evaluator, how he runs a front office, how he is with people.

I don't know anything about Joe Cronin. But maybe they like Joe Cronin. And they'll probably do their due diligence interviewing around, but maybe they do already have their guy and we just don't know it yet. And let me just speak on this because it was something that I had forgotten to mention that I did get a call about a few weeks ago from somebody that was listening to the podcast that's involved in the NBA that said, I had mentioned about the whole, you remember that story came out? I think Woj reported about basically the GM's putting together. it's not a union, but a collection, like somebody to represent them in order to, you know, protect themselves from being investigated from outside sources. Getting fired without having to get paid off.

And someone called me and said, hey, man, let me just give you a heads up. This is getting publicized because Neil wants that out there, like that this is being thrown together now because he's being done wrong. But this has been in talks for a long time from everybody. This is not something that's come about because of the situation. This came about because of the Dennis Lindsay situation. And I was like, uh, and so it was kind of like all under wraps. All the, you know, the management guys had all been talking about this for a long time.

But then it became almost like a news story as like, oh, yeah, well, the GMs are now forming this thing to get protection of each other. But that had been in talks because, I don't know, it sounded to me as if some within the NBA were a little resentful of the whole, oh, now this, now everybody needs to know about this because Neil wants everybody to feel like he's being done wrong. This all started when everybody got freaked out by the Dennis Lindsay stuff, which was a he said she. said, or he said he said, in that case, you know, situation where a guy was trying to, you know, bury Dennis, right, at the time. And so by saying he said horrible, horrible things. And so anyways, I just wanted to, I just wanted to mention that because it was something that we talked about on the show as a, hey, here's something that management guys are doing because they really don't have protection from or representation as everybody else in the NBA does.

You know? Yeah. The coaches have a guy and the players have a guy, but the GMs don't really have a guy. Question for you, Chris. Is Dennis Lindsay a Warren LaGerry guy? I don't know. Warren LaGerry, for listeners who don't know, is a guy who runs the Las Vegas Summer League for many, many years. and he's like a super agent of a ton of coaches and executives across the league.

Oh, tons. Including old Shea. I don't know. But there was a time where Warren represented an insane amount of guys. Warren Ligari has a lot of power. He's like one of the names. He runs Summer League. He goes around shaking hands and all that.

Warren Ligari is a powerful guy in the NBA universe. No question. Last thing, Steph Curry is now 16 off of Ray Allen's record for career three-pointers. He said 16 in a game is not out of the question. You know how bad he wants to break that record because Clay holds it. So for those that are unaware, and I don't think it's a very, you know, well-known record, the most threes anyone's ever hit in a game is 14. And that's Clay Thompson.

Clay Thompson also, interestingly, holds the most threes in a playoff game, which is 11. But for years and years and years, I think the number was 12, and that was Danielle Marshall and Kobe Bryant. Okay? And now it was 13 with Curry and Levine as actually hit 13 threes. but number one is Clay 14. And so what would be more

unbelievable? That would be the best record-breaking performance that you could possibly have. That to me would be up there with years ago Wayne Gretzky was a huge thing to score 50 goals and 50 games. Wayne Gretzky in the 39th game of the season

scored five goals. to get to 50. Right? So he did 50 goals in 39 games. No one will ever touch that. Guys don't even score 50 goals in a year anymore for the most part in the NHL. But he did 50 and 39 games. If Curry broke his buddy's record, you know that burned him up,

that Clay Thompson has the record for most three-pointers in a game by one. All right. And he's got a home game here, Chris. Wednesday night against Portland. Well, you know, until he hit seven last night. But before that, based on his pace this season, how many he had hit a game, he was on pace to break that record in Madison Square Garden. Now, that probably got screwed up by a minute seven last night.

It could happen, though, Chris, if he doesn't play the Indiana game next Monday. So they have Portland on ESPN Wednesday night. Philadelphia on Saturday on ABC, Indiana on Monday on NBA TV, and then Tuesday in Madison Square Garden on TNT, and then Friday in Boston on ESPN. So their next five games are all on national TV or NBA TV. And they're all on the road,

except for this first one against Portland. They're all on the road. Here's the question. What is the most you could fathom him having in a game? 20? Yeah, I could fathom him having 20. me, Chris. That'd be sick.

That'd be sick. Yeah, I could fathom Steph Curry hitting 23s. Of course I could. How could you not fathom that? He's Steph Curry. Well, where does it cut off? Come on.

I mean, look. I think around 20 is where it cuts off. I think around 20. But if you went into a game and say, hey, guess what? Tonight, we're going to get Steph every shot. We're going to go for Kobe's 81. If that was the game plan,

like, I'm serious. If that was a game plan, And it's like you watch professional war zone streamers when they play war zones. Sometimes they do tasks. They don't go for a traditional win. They'd be like, we're going to use the sniper all game. We're going to use the Riot Shield all game. They do something for fun for strategy reasons.

The Warriors could go into a game and say, we're getting step, 30 three point attempts this game. It's only one of 82. All right. So I didn't look. Who is there? That's fun. I'd love to do that. Who's this next game?

It is... Who did they put... Versed Portland, so they're at home at Chase Center. Portland. And I'll tell you what, Chris. With no McCallum, no Lillard?

Well, Portland's defense stinks, but the type of defense they play with blitzing and showing, it's meant to get the ball out of Steph Curry's hands. So they're going to be doing what they can to force it out of Steph's hands. With traps. All right, hold on. Let me see who is in terms of opponent three-pointers. I just want to see real quick before we get out of here.

Opponent three-pointers made per game, right, this season. The most, it appears to be, is Oklahoma City at 14, 29th is Portland at 14, 13.9. They have the second most three-pointers made against them this season. Yeah, and it's a lot of corner-th. with their style. But like a lot, they do light up a lot of three pointers.

Because they get, so it's like, if Steph gets it, it'll be he gets trapped, throws an outlet, relocates, gets himself open, warriors find him again.

It'll be a lot of those types of threes, if it did happen against them. There would be nothing better than him hitting 17 to break Ray Allen's record. That would be insane. That would be,

that would be, that would be, that would be, Gretzky-esque. I like, I liked you bringing that up. Yeah. It would be Gretzky.

17. 17 3s in one game. And he shatters Clay's Mark. Of 14th in the game. Did you ever play Wayne Gretzky's 3D hockey? Back in the 90s? Okay.

It was probably the first hockey video game that I ever played. It came out. I looked this up just now. In 1996, Wayne Gretzky's 3D hockey came out. That was my first exposure to playing a hockey video game.

Just curious. Yeah, no, no. At your age range, I figured maybe you might have played about that. Well, no, I know about all that stuff because, A, I grew up playing hockey, so I had all these like hockey VHS tapes, and one of them was called The Great One, and it was just a Wayne Gretzky video. Okay. I watched it 100,000 times.

And the other thing is when I was, he played the year for the Blues, of which my father took me to all the games. And so, you know, then that year that he came over and he played for the Blues, then I became hardcore into Gretzky and Gretzky history. You know, because he was on the team. You know. Heck of a player. I don't know much about hockey.

I feel like hockey is my weakest sport. Has been my whole life. He is, let me just say this. He is by a wide margin, the, quote, goat that is least talked about. It's not even close. At least in the United States. Kevin, they, look, he, so, you know,

in hockey they have points, right? Which is goals and assists. Yep. Yep. Okay. And that equals points. You could take away all of Wayne Gretzky's goals. And he would have the most points in NHL history. That's wild. If you took away the gold.

That's wow. I believe that's still true. I mean, I'd have to go look. But that was true, like, it was true my whole life. It was like the record that will never be broken, right? Like, because he had. You got, you know, you got points for, you bought points for goals and you got points for assist. And I remember it being that if he, if he never had scored a goal, he would still have more points than anyone in NHL history. All right, he has a thousand more points than the second place guy who is Yarmir Yager.

He is 2857. Is Yager still playing? Is he like 60 now? And Yager has 1921. You got a little hockey on this show today. Yager is 49 years old. Okay, so he retired in 2017-18. That was his last season.

Unbelievable. Is there anybody like other hockey fans nowadays, Chris? Like we have NBA fans who argue LeBron over Michael Jordan. I don't know. People were arguing that when LeBron was in his 20s back in the late. 2000s. Is there anybody saying like Connor McDavid could be better than Gretzky?

Is that a thing at all? Does anybody say that? Isn't he the best player in hockey right now? I don't think it is, I would have, I cannot speak to this because I don't know about the hockey conversations that are going on now,

but I would say that's insane. It's, I think it's on. Okay, so you know, I think it's on challenge. So you're not totally plugged into that then right now. No, yeah, but I think it's on challenge. Okay. I mean, come on, bro.

If there are any hardcore hockey fans listening to the mismatch, in the, If you're a hardcore hockey fan listening to our pod after an hour still right now, and you're listening to us, tweet at us. I want to know. Are there any players right now, because Austin Matthews is another name that I know. I don't know very many names.

But are there any players that people are like, oh, he could become the coach. Bro, you just told me the Yarmier-Yager is 49 and retired in 17. Okay? So that's four years ago. So he's 45 years old. All right. And he, so he played until he was 45 freaking years old and is a thousand points. A thousand.

A thousand points behind number one. And he's number two. He's a great player. And he played until he was 45 freaking years old. And he's a thousand points. short? Bro, I don't think there's those discussions

going on. Just curious. I'm just trying to learn. I mean, imagine if Kareem Abdul-Jabbar had 50,000 points. You see, you see Kareem.

And like second place was Karl Below. You see Kareem, he's doing YouTube videos now. Kareem's a hell of a writer, but now he's doing YouTube videos and he criticized LeBron for doing the big balls dance.

He's like, Go, Go, Go, Stone Dance. He's like, for me, winning was enough. I thought it was just funny. I love Kareem. He's a hell of a right. Did he get the old man yelling at the clouds

GIF or something for that one? I mean, I'm sure a lot of people responded to him with that. In my day, Barry Sanders just handed the ball to the referee. All right. So good. That's going to do it for today's show.

Kevin, you got a podcast coming up this week. Yeah, so every Wednesday, we're going to be doing a void. version of the podcast. So the Void video series that we've been doing in the Ringer's YouTube page for over a year now. We're going to be doing a podcast version of it on this podcast feed, Chris, on one of our off days on Wednesday, the Void podcast is going to be running. Get a great conversation tomorrow that focuses a lot on the Phoenix Suns, talk about the calves a little bit, talk about the wolves and some other teams too. But that's coming out on the off day tomorrow.

We're basically like you and I, Chris, we do a lot of deep dives. We do news of the day. games that happened the night before, big overarching themes. This pot is going to focus more on like some specific teams or specific players and topics or thoughts and get a little deeper on that. So it's running on the mismatch meet on Wednesdays. That's what the ringers having us do. So I'm fired up about it. It'll be good.

And Chris, people can still hear you every Monday talking NFL and gambling with Warren Sharp. So what does that mean? Four days a week. Yeah. We got a lot of. We've filled up a lot of days. tomorrow. So for the first time, keep a lookout on the

mismatch feed. You have been trained to look for a pod on Tuesdays and Fridays. Look for one tomorrow. It will be up on the feed tomorrow. Kevin's new edition of The Void. Thank you to our producer Jesse Lopez, as

always. Kevin, I'll talk to you on Friday. Take it forward to it.