The Mismatch - Describing the Grizzlies' Record-Setting Night, What to Do in Portland, and Changing the Thought Process for DPOY

Episode Date: December 3, 2021

Verno and KOC discuss the Grizzlies' record-setting night as they beat the Thunder by 73 points! Verno was there, and he describes the scene inside FedEx Forum throughout the game (01:58). After joking at the Thunder’s expense, they take a hard look at the franchise and debate whether stockpiling draft picks is the right way to go (07:22). After losing by 31 points to the Spurs and dropping below .500, there is a definite need for a change in Portland as KOC explores the real issues and speaks the truth on what the franchise and Dame Lillard need to do (13:31). The Suns are riding an 18-game winning streak going into tonight’s game against the Warriors, and the guys describe the defensive prowess of Suns wingman Mikal Bridges (30:12). Despite DPOY being known as a "big-man" award, the guys believe that Bridges should be strongly considered. They also take a break from hardwood talk to discuss whether they could live in a world without the internet (41:47). They lastly go around the Association and discuss the hottest stories going into the weekend (46:43). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The ringer gambling show is here to help you place your bets on the biggest sports around the world. Join NFL analyst Warren Sharp on Mondays and Fridays with guests Chris Vernon, Ben Solac, and Joe House to guide you through the NFL betting landscape. Each week, they'll cover everything from spreads, game totals, and parlays to player props, futures, post-game reactions, and more. Check out the ringer gambling show on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon. And joining me as he does every Friday from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, aka Kevin O'Bomber, Kevin O'Concert, Kevin O'clock. Oh, Klamer, Kevin O Conflict, Kevin O Camry, Kevin O'Killian, Kevin O'Conroversy, Kevin O'Conroversy, Kevin! Burn out!

Congratulations to you, my friend, Mr. Christopher Vernon. What you witnessed last night. Tell me about it. Tell me about what you saw in person last night. Now, there have been many times throughout the last several years where I have gone down to the arena with extremely low expectations, and last night was one of those nights. As you know, I'm a Dallas Cowboys fan, and they were going to be playing on Thursday night football. I had to work at the Grizzly game.

And so I'm going to try to keep up on my phone with what's going on to the football game because I don't expect that this is going to be an extremely competitive basketball game. I had watched the night before the Oklahoma City Houston game, and I had watched Shay Gildes Alexander have, I believe, 39, and they still lost their game. And now they're coming in out back-to-back. He's in Concussion Protocol. Josh Giddy's not going to be playing.

And I was kind of disappointed in that because I did want to see him in person. But it just goes to show, you know, I used to always say, every time you go to the arena, you know, there's a very good chance you're going to see something you've never seen before. But this was not what I expected. the record for the biggest margin of victory in the history of the history of the NBA. All different manner of players, all different manner of teams, wearing different uniforms. And there I am, and I'm watching it unfold. And it gets to halftime. And it's like 72 to 36.

And I'm like, this is ridiculous. It's ridiculous. But it never even dawns on me until the fourth quarter. Oh, my goodness, this could be historic. Like, they're not letting up. Like, this is, typically you get to, like, the fourth quarter. You've got all your bench guys in. They've got all their guys in.

And, you know, you play it even or something like that. And then the margin is, yeah, it's this devastating margin. but it's not 70, but with about six minutes off to go in the game, you can tell that not only am I looking it up on my phone, like, what is the biggest margin of victory ever? And it's 30 years ago, and it's a game between Cleveland and Miami, and the margin is 68. And so as it starts growing and you're in the 60s now,

you can tell in the arena that people, and this is the difference of basketball today than it was even 10 years ago, everybody's got a phone. And people can look this up. And as the score is getting insane, there is an awareness of this record in that arena. If you see, I retweeted Worldwide Wob this morning. I guess he had it from the broadcast. They're up by 60-something, and the crowd is all standing, chanting defense, defense. And it's like, holy crap.

Everybody knows that the record is like within reach, that this may really happen. And the final score ends up 150. to 79, and in fact, it does break the record. And it is the largest margin of victory in NBA history. Unbelievable. I still can't believe it happened, honestly. I cannot believe it's in this day and age where the three-point shot is so prevalent.

I mean, and again, like, you. say you get to the fourth quarter. I think they won the fourth quarter. 39 to 17. 39. 17. John Conchard was out for blood, Chris. No chill. I mean, he's dunking on people. He's hitting threes. This was a lot of these guys' opportunities.

I think Santi Aldama led the team in field goal attempts. 16 total. Okay, so at that point, the thunder have absolutely no excuse. Like you could say, Gildis Alexander was out and Josh Giddy was out and Derek Favors didn't play. The leading shot taker was Santee Aldama, which many people, when I posted the box score last night, responded,

who the hell is Santi Altama? Fair. I mean, he was drafted this year, played in a very small school, you know, it wasn't on TV, you know, unless you were a fan of international basketball, and under 18 teams, you know, you probably do not have an awareness of San Diego. And his team wasn't any good in college either. He was outstanding at college, but his team wasn't good.

And he was drafted in the last pick of the first round this past year. You're telling me, people aren't tuning in to watch the Loyal Maryland. No. In college, they're not watching them, Chris. They're not. I mean, look, just kidding. Just kidding. This is a disgrace.

Yeah, it is a disgrace. Isn't it Chris? It really is. It is. I mean, at some point, come on. I mean, you saw the players reacting last night throughout the league. Traymond Green said they should get fined. Yeah, that's funny.

And you know how I feel about fielding non-competitive teams. And look, I'll say this. Oklahoma City weirdly has been rather competitive by a lot. large throughout the year. They have. Like they haven't just full on, but this is where it shows up where it's like when there's a couple guys out of the lineup, holy mackerel. I mean, what they fielded last night is just, I don't understand.

I don't understand truly how you construct a roster like that in good faith. because you just had a couple of guys out. And I think that this does have a bad effect on young players, to say the least. And I don't want to make this some kind of overwhelming argument because this is just a crazy outcome that took place last night. But they now, in two years, have the biggest home loss in NBA history. they got beat by 57 on their home floor last year by the Indiana Pacers. And now they have the biggest road loss in NBA history, which was, of course, last night, 73. And I don't know, you've got Josh Giddy to show for it.

So I guess it's worth it. And maybe they'll get a high pick this year that could change their franchise or whatever. They did it last year. they did it last year and they ended up with the sixth pick in the draft. And so it's kind of like the, you know, what's the cost of doing business here? And I do think that, you know, if you don't end up with some kind of franchise changing caliber player, then you can really look back and you can say, my God, like, what are we doing here? And I just think it's, I think it's a disservice to the players on the team.

I think it's a disservice to the people that work at that franchise, and I think it's a disservice to the fans of that team. I really do because most times people don't see it through. Sam Presti might be able to see it through. He might. If he wants to. Yeah, probably will. But when you look up and when the team is finally built, those guys that got their ass kicked every night, they're not there anymore. And a lot of them don't even have careers anymore.

And those coaches, they're usually not there. there anymore. And those GMs, they're usually not there anymore. And so it all seems like a great idea to be non-competitive until you realize that everybody that made this great choice to be non-competitive doesn't get to see it through to when it gets good anyway. The only one was kind of Brent Brown, right? He was like kind of the last remaining guy for Philly that really got to, you know, that was there for all the crap. And then. and, you know, was there on the other end. And then, of course, when they didn't reach what they wanted to, they got rid of him.

But I don't know, man. 73 is just, whoa, whoa. And John Morant didn't play, Kevin. And Jada didn't play. I know. I know. Isn't that the shocking thing that this is the night it happens. And Jah Morant isn't even on the court for it to happen.

I mean, look, dude, to your, you know, bigger overall point, this OKC roster isn't deep. you know, there's a lack of talent. And very clearly, winning is not the priority there. Development is, you know, getting SGA and Giddy and Poku and Dort and, you know, Basley and all these young guys to become as good as they possibly can be. And like, if you're watching the Thunder from that perspective as a fan, last night's game is not a good example of that. But, you know, Basley's had some good games. Dort has gotten better this season. He's scoring the ball better than ever before. SGA is a star. Giddy looks good. So, like, you have some good stuff to root for in terms of development. But winning games, very clearly, Chris, to your point,

that is not this team's priority. But I think you also need to give credit to your team, Memphis. You do have to give credit to a team that even without John Moramp still has a heck of a lot of talent on it. Jaron Jackson Jr. in last night's game, granted it's against this crappy OKC defense. He looked like the full version of himself on the offensive end of the floor, coming off of screens and handoffs, jacking up threes, attacking closeouts, getting to the basket. he looked like a complete offensive player for Memphis. And like Bain, you got Aldemey, as you said, coming off the bench, like other guys contributed from 1 to 15.

John Conchar, DeAnthony Melton, like Xavier Tillman, Culver had some moments. And he's like a former lottery pick, like 1 to 15. Yeah. Memphis has players who could have, they have players who could get opportunity across the league, one to 15. So I think really with Memphis, like that fourth quarter, when like the lead is at 60 plus and the players are still busting their ass going hard,

I'm like, damn, the Grizzlies have a team full of a bunch of killers, man, like 1 to 15. Well, they have, they now, you know, and you see this sometimes with teams, it does, it puts an onus on you being at your best and really playing with a level of focus when your best player goes out and they dealt with it last year and I believe they were, I think they now have won their last seven games

that Morant hasn't played in. And it does speak to the depth that they have, right? And that they've got other guys that can step up and they can fill that void. And Jaron Jackson Jr. has been absolutely unbelievable for the last six games. For the last six games.

But, I mean, it was, I really can't, I still can't believe I watch that. I never thought a team would get beat by 70 points. I mean, it'd been 30 years, and obviously you have no awareness of that 68 point. It was 1991. It's not like everybody was watching. There was no league pass.

That would be like a thing that somebody made fun of on SportsCenter once. But now this will be the subject of all manner of debate shows today. It's headlines everywhere. because it's historic. Hey guys, just so you know, the conversation Chris Vernon and I are about to have about the Portland Trailblazers happened before news dropped that Neil O'Shea has been fired by Portland.

But everything we talked about stays the same, getting into their issue. So here's that conversation. Blazers last night, too, they should be saying, hello. Thank you very much. 31 point loss to San Antonio. Spurs. Spurs looked like the beautiful game Spurs, Chris. I don't know how much of that.

You probably couldn't watch it live, but watching it back, I'm sure they looked like the beautiful game spurs against that Blazers defense. That would be leading NBA topics today if it weren't for the OKC. Oh, there's no question that there should be tremendous thank you sent over from Portland to Memphis because that was at home too. Yeah, first home loss of the year. Yeah. And when you lose by that margin to San Antonio, all of a sudden today is it's Dane trade talk. It's where do they go from here? It just it did. It pushed it down. And maybe, you know, LeBron testing negative for the eighth consecutive time. That might have pushed it down a little bit too. So maybe they should get a- Ron was just like constantly taking PCR test, just stuffing them up his nose. I didn't think he does. He's just, he's actually out for tonight's game with a sore nose.

When David Minervan put that out of there, like he's at it. He's had eight consecutive tests. I'm like, eight tests. Damn, he was being pain. What are you doing? You into that? Yeah, anyways. Portland did.

They get to push it down a little bit. their news, which was a rather disgusting loss, to say the least, losing on their home floor by that margin. And you actually had, you probably were like, man, I must be living right because you had just done a video this week about Portland and about this, you know, back court tandem and about the defensive issues that they have. and then kind of parlaying that into Chauncey Billups and what he's doing with this team now.

So if you can't go from there, like kind of you do that video, you've thought about them a lot, obviously recently, and then you see a result like that take place with their defense getting shredded. Yeah, I mean, I thought last night's game against San Antonio was illustrative of their problems the entire season. Really, what Chris, last three years when their defense has struggled,

I mean, ultimately with them, Chauncey Billups, to summarize the video, I suppose, which is up on the Ringer's YouTube page about Portland and their struggles, Chauncey Billups gets hired to change the defense, Chris. They go from a conservative coverages under Terry Stott's, having

Nurcha drop to the paint to playing an aggressive scheme by having, you know, a blitz or show pressuring the opponent ball handler and pick and roll situations, and they did more changes than that. But that's like the easiest one to kind of comprehend here. and they do it more than anybody in the league.

They blitz and show against pick and rolls more than anybody, but they give up more points per chance when they do that than anybody else in the league. So they do something more than anybody, and then they're the worst at it. The only problem is, like Neil Lashay, the soft season says, you know, changing the system that's going to help our team out. It's not about the players we have in this locker room. It is also about the players in that locker room,

because whether they're playing this aggressive scheme or whether they're playing conservative coverages or whether they're just switching screens. This defense is getting shredded no matter what they do, no matter who's on the court. And I think Billups in last night's game, he said after this is an effort problem. It is partially an effort problem.

It is. It is also partially a scheme problem. It is also partially a roster problem that your defense is in the bottom three in defensive rating again, that your defense, no matter what coverages you're using, is getting absolutely owned by the opponent.

night in, night out. So for Portland here, what are the solutions? Is it a big trade? Yeah, it's a big trade. And whether that opportunity comes up this season or not, like, I view it as whether it's Olshe or whoever it is running this organization after that investigation's up, they got to do everything that they possibly can, take some risks and put the best possible team around Damien Lode. You said earlier about OKC, Chris, like it's kind of a disservice to fans when like you're putting the product out on the court for some of these players, you're saying that. I would say, like, with Portland,

it's a disservice to the Blazers fans. If you're not doing every freaking thing possible, when you have an all-time great, like Damien Loden, you're not doing everything you can to put the best possible team around him, that's a disservice to those fans of Portland. And I hope that they do something big this year.

It's just a matter of what opportunities might become available, and that should involve CJ McCollum. Well, and you told me a few weeks ago when I asked you about this, and I said, you know, their name has come up a lot, It came up a lot with the Ben Simmons thing as a viable trade candidate. And I asked you with all this investigation stuff going on and everything, like, who do you call?

Yeah, people don't know around the league. They're definitely, they're definitely, you know, running around with their heads cut off right now. Yeah, I mean, if a guy is going to be ousted, then he clearly is not the guy that you want to want. making massive future impact decisions. Right? I mean, these are things that are going to impact your franchise for possibly the next five to ten years. And whoever makes that decision, you want that person to be the person that you're

entrusting with the franchise going forward, not somebody that very well may be gone in a month. And then whoever is the new person has to deal with the repercussions. good or bad from the trade that was made. And so that makes it very, very murky. I will say this, on the Neil O'Shea thing, you get one chance to blame your coach. And they held their coach for a long, long time, Terry Stott's.

And it was, and I do think they did a reasonable job of convincing people that Terry Stott's was the problem. But when you replace them, and what ailed you does not get fixed and in fact may get worse, now maybe you just chose a wrong replacement or maybe it is exactly what you said, which is there's a limit to how good you're going to be

with what you've got. Yeah. You know, I mean, like there's, you can construct whatever kind of defense. You can do it any kind of way you want in the way the NBA's played now. you've still got, you know, a lumbering big guy back there and two smallest guards. Exactly.

On the perimeter. Like, I mean, there's a limit. Bingo, bingo. Tough formula to win with, Chris, right? It's a tough formula. Offensively, C.J. and Dame are one of the most brilliant offensive duos in recent years. I mean, they complement each other perfectly on offense. On defense, they're one of the worst backcourt duos in recent history.

It's like best on one end, worst on the other. And I think in the past, with McCollum, you could argue that they made the right decision every time not to trade them. You could argue that. Guys like Kevin Love were the names that were brought up. I would have loved to seen Aaron Gordon there, but I get not pushing for him. I get waiting. And also they didn't have people behind him. Now they have Norman Powell.

Norman Powell was a very, very good player. He's a better defender than C.J. McCollum, yet right now he's playing the three. He's defending guys bigger than him more often, which hurts his defense. It limits what he can do when he's defending guards. And you have Anthony Simons, who last night sprained his ankle, which is unfortunate, but he's come along a lot. He's been looking good for two years now as a young player. So you have two other smaller guards behind CJ and Dame. That to me makes McCollum very, very, very, very, very expendable, especially if, you know, as I noted in the video,

we can't forget, Chris. in early October, Sharm Sharania reported that Philadelphia offered Portland Simmons for McCollum and three first and three first round pick swaps.

Portland understandably said no to giving up six picks with McCollum for Ben Simmons. But those negotiations at the least indicated that Philly would be open to taking on McCollum as their veteran in return as long as they got enough draft picks. He's one of the guys.

He's one of the guys. He's one of the guys. one of the guys. And so for Portland, Ben Simmons should be one of the guys that you also are open to trading for because of his defensive versatility, because he could be used as a screener and handoffs, and pick and rolls. He can bring the ball up the court, initiate offense for Dame, push him off ball, allow Billups to get creative if Billups is capable of doing that, which I have questions about, Chris, because with this defense, you know, Haralaba responded to my video on Twitter yesterday, and he's right. He's like, they just shouldn't be blitzing as much.

It is a scheme issue because they should be doing more of what Stotz did when you have a guy like Nurkachankering the paint. And I think he's right. Like you said earlier, no matter what you do, scheme-wise, I don't think it's going to work. But the way in which Chauncey Billups has utilized Larry Nance Jr. Has me worried. It has me worried because I feel like watching, there was a couple moments before last week where he was being used in some creative roles more often. You know how much I love Larry Nance, Chris. he's paired with two of the best perimeter scoring guards in the league right now.

He never is used in actions with handoffs, rolls to the rim to get like a two-man game going. Defensively, he's put in these weird positions. He's very rarely used as a small ball five. I feel like on both ends of the court, Larry Nance is an example of a guy not being optimized in the type of role that I think Ben Simmons could be optimized in. So if it's not happening with Nance,

at any level, would it happen with Ben Simmons at the level that it can be or should be? Is Chauncey Billups, even to blame here when he's trying to learn becoming a head coach in this dysfunctional situation now where like the relationship with the front office, probably the communication isn't at the level that it needs to be? You can't point the finger any one person here in like in Billups, first year head coach, got to give time there. But that all speaks to just the problems here. There's just so much.

There's so many issues. It all starts with. There has to be alignment from ownership down or else it makes it so difficult to succeed. Because again, if everybody's pulling the same rope, then there is feedback that goes on. Right. There are people that are in an analytics department. They're saying, hey, we notice this, this, and this. There are people that are saying, hey, maybe we go and we try this combination.

And if your coach is open to it and by and large throughout the league, most coaches, are rather open to it now. But those are conversations that happen literally on a daily basis with franchises that are healthy franchises. And yet you see right now, as you said, you've got a guy who's just thrown into that job who's expected to win right now. And when you have your president of organization who's already been ousted, your GM, who's probably walking on pins and needles every single day, as is everybody else,

people around the office are getting interviewed about the other guy. Do you think they're having some kind of healthy conversations about basketball and how to fix what ails them, et cetera, et cetera? And I mean, it's toxic. It's all toxic. And to your point about the NERCITS thing, you remember we did this last year. And I kept saying, like, you know, their numbers, their starting lineup numbers are good. Their bench is just horrendous. But it was always contingent on NERCCH.

It was like when Lillard had Nurchitch on the court, those numbers were great. And I do think that it is, it's not because of the individual brilliance of Nerkich as much as NERCITs provides them insurance for guards that get beat. Yeah. And even then, I mean? And even then, not of the same level it was prior to his major injury in 2019. Like, he's passable in drop defense. There was a play.

I think it was in the second quarter in last. night's game that I thought about after Billups had mentioned the effort issues with the team. And it was like a simple handoff from Thaddeus Young to Doug McDermott. Norman Powell was trailing McDermott and got hit hard by the screen as the Young handed it over to McDermott. And Nurkich just kind of didn't do anything as McDermott turned the corner, glided his way to the rim, scored with ease. Nerkich wasn't around. He wasn't there. You let Doug McDermott drive by you easily.

And there's little plays like that where I wonder how much of this is fatigue, how much of this is energy, how much of this is effort, how much of this is awareness. But I just see moments like that from NERC specifically, and I'm like, damn, he's not the same level of Improtected that he was in the past, where I felt like he was feared at times on the inside. and he's what he's the best they have and they need him to be as good as he can be. But I don't feel like that he or anybody on this team is playing at the highest level if they possibly can. And part of that, again, all the pieces connect.

Part of it is this weird scheme that they're using where they're blitzing more often than anybody in recent years besides the Jim Boylan Chicago Bulls, which is not company you want to be part of. You want to stay as far away from that as possible. I think it's all of it together, Chris, and that's why ultimately when I look at this situation, I'm like, Dame, you are in an incredibly toxic relationship, and you are being loyal to the fans and to the city and to the franchise, and I respect that, but also you're 31 years old,

and this is the worst season of your career in many years. You're dealing with this abdomen injury that's going to have you out for 10 days. And who knows if those 10 days are going to be everything he needs, to get himself right, when he said this is a problem that he's had for four years, for four years, is this something that should have been addressed over the offseason? Is this something that could have been fixed surgically? We don't know all the details about this right now. Remember how bad he was at the Olympic?

No kidding. He was horrible. And he's had some horrible games this regular season. So I look at that and I'm like, Dame, you got to realize your mortality here. And one of two things need to happen. Either Neil Losey or whoever's running that front office making the decisions, got to do something big. You got to do something big to maximize DAME

or else number two, dude, get out of there. Get out of there. If you leave, it's not going to change your relationship with the fans. It's not going to change your relationship with the city. That is still part of who you are. It can't.

It can't. You've given this team every opportunity, more opportunity than anybody would give. You know how many people would have pulled the plug years ago? On this team, never mind today, he's still sticking through. it. So it's being loyal to the players and to your teammates, to the fans, to the city is different than being loyal to the franchise. The franchise is a totally different entity. It's a business.

And I think like unless this team does something big, it's pretty obvious that he should ask out. Like it is obvious. I think they'll probably end up moving my column. I think so too, Chris. It's just a matter of for what. I was shocked. I was shocked to see last night that, you know, It was just their second loss at home, but I did not realize they are one in ten on the road. Yeah, that is. Pretty weird, isn't it? That's incredible. Isn't that weird?

One in ten? Yeah, isn't that odd? Yes. Now, speaking of streaks, the Phoenix Suns have continued theirs, and we saw them knocking off the warriors earlier in the week, and now those two teams, as Phoenix streak is up to 18, are. going to meet up again tonight in Golden State. And interestingly enough, I mean, I would love to see the numbers on this. But I'd find it pretty hard to imagine that there's ever been a team on this kind of a win streak.

And I know that this is bordering on historical that is like a significant underdog, which they are tonight. Yeah, what is the spread, Chris? Do we have it? They are. I saw this morning. I saw seven. Yeah, so I pulled up a line six and a half Warriors favorite. I mean, they've won 18 games in a row and they're a six and a half point underdog. It's pretty weird. I mean, you consider they are coming off the second end of a back to back. They were in Detroit, but they had guys resting.

They will be, I believe, without Devin Booker, right? Yeah. So part of me gets it, but also for what we saw the other night. night, this Phoenix is a, is a collective. Well, and it's going to be fun. You know what? Bill Burgess especially. He's nasty. And see, and now we've had within a week's time, we will now have as that game was

Tuesday night, now on Friday night, it almost feels like you're in the middle of a playoff series, you know, because you get to see them play again so quickly and they're going to be on the other team's home floor. But the Bridges thing and the job. Bobby did on step. Steph had one of the worst games he's ever had playing basketball. Bye-bye Bridges. He was so good, wasn't he, Chris?

And we're about to see, like, is this one of the Steph, you know, that was a one-time deal? And now he comes back devastating because if he does it again, you know what I'm saying? And not like that, because that was extreme. And Steph was way, way off and just kept trying to get going. It could never get going. but let's say Bridges makes his life hell again. Now it's a different conversation, right?

You do it once. It's like, oh, wow, that was phenomenal. He's one of the best perimeter defenders in the league, yada, yada, yada. If you do it, you turn around and three days later, you do it again when you know very well Steph's going to be trying to get off tonight. now we're talking about even even as impressive Bridges was the other night if he repeats that performance now people start talking about hold on now they ain't got deva booker in there and they have got if this guy is really you start to get talk as the curry stopper you'd really do

you do you know like if you're the guy that just with your link and what you bring to the table that you can really make this guy's life hell. Now all of a sudden, as much as people have talked up, you know, the Warriors this year thus far and they still don't have clayback, I think people start talking about Phoenix and Bridges in a different way. Definitely.

I mean, after that Tuesday game, I tweeted out about McKell Bridgers and said how, you know, defensive player of the years, usually an award for Biggs. You know, Rudy Gobert, Draymond Green, those guys will be the favorites and they should be.

Draymond, today for me, at the quartermark of the season, would be my favorite for defensive player of the year when I cast my ballot. We'll see how that changes. But McKell Bridges should at least be in that conversation for defensive player of the year. Undoubtedly, this season, he's been a first team, all defensive team guy. Like, undoubtedly. He's been not just that Steph game.

He's been doing that night in, night. out. He's been a dominant defender at the point of attack for the Phoenix Suns. He's integral to their success as a collective unit. And, you know, I tweeted out how at the time Fandall had Bridges as plus 12,000 for

defensive player of the year. He was the 29th highest odds, plus 12,000. After the game, he moved up to plus 2,500, the seventh highest odds. That game moved the line significantly because it

put him on that radar doing that against Stefan Curry. And doing it again tonight, to your point, Chris, suddenly he's moving ahead of Embed, and AD, who I'm not even sure why AD's on there, to be honest with you at that point, ahead of Bridges, it doesn't make any sense to me. He could

move up even more when it comes to what people are expecting from him in terms of how people are talking about him. And I think for voters, I had a phone call with somebody after that game the next morning, somebody who works for a team, and they said to me, he's like, why are Biggs favored for this?

It's a perimeter game. Why are the players that aren't stopping or bothering or altering what perimeter stars do favored for this? He's like, what does McKell Bridges have to do to be awarded like Hawaii Leonard was a couple years ago? What are like the Jimmy Butler's of the world and the Paul Georges of the world? What do these guys have to do to be in the conversation for a defensive player of the year when they're the ones defending the most important players in the game. And I mean, it's an interesting thought that I'm just putting out there. I don't have the answer to it, Chris.

A major reason is because, and I know that you have expressed your level of discontent, as have many throughout basketball with defensive metrics, the defensive metrics favor the big guys. They do. Badly. And so, but as we have rebounding and block shots, all of that. That's why it's all changed, though. But those are just counting stats.

I'm saying even like the defensive rating stuff and on court off court. Yeah. Like those all favor bigs in a massive way. And look, I covered a team where the best defensive player on the team and if you asked the other teams who are you worried about tonight of the defensive end was Tony Allen. Mark Assault won defensive player of the year. You know what I'm saying? Again, that is the, that's the chasm.

And it was in part. him like Mark had an unbelievable season. But Zach Lowe won Mark that award. End of story. Because he wrote this huge article and it was all those numbers and everything else. And nobody really had some kind of strong opinion. And, you know, it was the best defense in the league. And here's this guy with these crazy numbers.

And all those numbers were, you know, all those numbers were incredibly persuasive. But if you go look at them every. year. You know, 538 did that thing that I mocked last year about Rudy Gobert having the greatest defensive season, whatever, in the history of basketball, whatever. And like, fourth on the list was Gorgie Jang from the Grizzlies two years ago. And I'm like, what the, like, bro, tear up your, whatever, whatever algorithm you used to come up with this shit. Like, you got to, you got to to tear it up. But they're all big guys.

Chris, I just want to make this clear. I agree with you. I agree with you. Like when you see Gorgi Jang fourth on your lists, rip it up. Yeah. I mean, they just like, but that just goes to show.

No matter what big you are, you're right, it is going to show up. It favors big. Look, and that's why a couple of years ago, it was Brooke Lopez. last year is Yacob Portal. And I go to the games.

Turtles really good, to be clear, but not all time great. He's very, very good. He's fine. I'm just saying you read how amazing they are defensively, and then you go and watch them in person, and you're like, okay,

I'm not exactly watching Bill Russell here. Like, let's get serious. Like, the metrics tell a different story than your eyeballs do. Chris, you said something in there about voters and like how Zach Lowe won that award for Marcus all with the article here wrote.

I think the NBA, with how powerful Twitter is, I think the NBA needs to make the votes private. And the reason why I think that is because the NBA doesn't need the public to hold voters accountable for doing goofy stuff. If some guy's going to vote Andre Drummond for a defensive player of the year, the NBA is smart enough to say that person's not going to get a vote again. But I think the element of public pressure and not one. wanting to stray from what everybody else is thinking they're doing is real when it comes to

votes. And I have not investigated this at all. It's just a theory I have in my head. I'm not sure the best way to measure it. But it just seems to me in recent years, there's more consensus. And I think that is an effect of the hive mind that develops through Twitter. Kevin, you could do this with like, if there's like a month left in the season and you now are a prominent enough writer within NBA circles that if you wrote an article for the ringer, why I'm voting McKell Bridges defensive player of the year, you absolutely would have tons of media members, especially ones that are intensely covering a team, right?

They're not intensely covering the league at large. And there's many that have votes that, you know, they're not seeing how many Phoenix games are they really seeing throughout the year, right? And understandable. Totally understandable. Because a beat writer is such a hard job. I mean, like, B-Riders have to, like, they are so invested in the team that they're covering. That's right.

That, like, it makes it harder to watch, you know, the Phoenix on a Thursday night against the Pistons. And they are dependent upon others' opinions. And so if you come out with a strong opinion, it can't sway people. And it's not because it's kind of like if you just don't have an opinion, on something. Like if you didn't go, if there's not some place that you go to get your haircut every time, right? And I said, I have got the absolute best place to go get your haircut. Now, if you didn't have a strong opinion on, you didn't have a, you're like, oh, you know what, I was looking for a place to get my haircut anyway. I'll go where you say. And that's the way

it works. That's the way it works, right? And you have, like, there have been many times in the past where somebody with a level of prominence in the NBA has gotten, you know, somebody in a ward. Bill Simmons still to this day will never forgive Jackie for getting Carl Malone, the MVP because she put him on the cover of Sports Illustrated and it was like, he will forever blame her. And like the magazines, like they probably used to be what influenced opinion in the past pre-internet days.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. And so he will forever believe that he, you know, she got him that MVP over Michael Jordan. Chris, you ever think you could go back to a world where we didn't have the internet? Do you think you could do that? Like, let's say, let's say tomorrow you were, you were offered the option. Like, you personally can have no internet forever. I, look, I could, but this is, this is why. This is why we could. Could you? Are you sure? This is why we are the misman. match though. But you've got to remember, oh my goodness, am I about to age myself to all of our listeners? It's okay. I did not have the internet in college. So you got to think, man. That's wild. I live my whole, I mean, you are. Oh, whoa. All the way up. I didn't have it in college. So, I mean, we had like, it like had just started and in my first couple of jobs.

it wasn't it wasn't part of the daily routine and it was Slack channels or anything like that yeah no and it wasn't it works over you go home and that's it

that's over well yeah and I didn't even but I didn't even have a cell phone in college so I mean when you say now again

I've lived the last 20 years a different way but I mean I just live so much of my life life, it wasn't how I grew up, right? It is what I am dependent upon now, like everybody else is. But I think I'd have an easier time than some people because I, for so long, it hasn't been

omnipresent in my life. Like my children, they don't know a world without it. They don't care about the television. I'm not kidding. A lot of kids don't. A lot of kids don't care at all. There are full dates where that TV could never be turned on.

Because they're on the smaller screen, right, Chris? Absolutely. It's not that they're not watching a screen. They're just not watching the TV. Yes. They're not watching it. You know what I mean? So, I mean, that is,

now for them, you know, if oh my god Kevin our power went out a week ago nobody they didn't even care about the lights you know what they were doing

they were fighting to who could use the hot spot off of my phone that's funny they didn't even care about the light so the way it is now as compared portable chargers like a one that doesn't need to be plugged in?

Yeah, but we didn't have any, we didn't have any charged up. So they need, and, but the, when the power's out, the internet's out, but they know I've got a hot spot on my phone because they used it in the car on

road. That's so funny. I know. Yeah. But so for me, could I go back to a time when there wasn't? I probably could. I could be okay.

I don't think I could. Not now at this point. I mean, I grew up at both worlds. Like I was born 1990, so I grew up without it. I didn't get a computer until I was like, 11 or 12, but I don't think I could go back to before then.

I have too many years of experience with the internet, and it's just being part of what you do. It's like you mentioned the game at the arena. Everybody's got their phone. Everybody knows what the record is. The access to information that you have in the palm of your hand with that little cell phone in your pocket there is just extraordinary. And never mind the fact that like you're like as a parent,

you're connected to your kids. you know, I'm connected to my mom. You know, I can FaceTime her at any moment. Like when I'm across the country, like, she'll be moving here at some point. But, like, being across the country right now, like, I feel closer to her. Just for being able to be outside and, like, I'm going to give my mama call, you know? It's like, like, the little things like that all add up for me personally, too. And now that I think about it, now that you say this, nah, I couldn't go back.

Because, like, if I think about the way being online changes everything, like, let's just say, like my son my son has a basketball game right and and it's at a school that we haven't played at before how would I get directions there like I just think about you have to pull up an action

remember pulling out physical maps Chris I used to hate that my dad always made mistakes driving one of those physical maps I think about something like that and I'm like how would I Yeah, I probably couldn't go back now. You'd have to write down the directions on a little index card. Something as simple as that, yeah, would be a different deal.

All right, let's see a couple more basketball things before we get out of here. That Phoenix Golden State game is going to be on tonight. They had moved off the Laker game, I guess, because they thought LeBron was going to be out. Before he was stuffing his nose with the PCR test. This is a way better game, though, anyway. Oh, yeah, definitely. Way better game. Even without Booker.

Like 18 win streak, you get to watch this game. The Lakers are a terrible watch. They really are. They really are. It's bad basketball. Yeah. It's not fun watching them right now. No.

On the other side, their old buddy Alex Caruso is part of some really fun basketball. The Bulls continued again last night and DeRosen. This season is just like a dream season of all. the free agent signings. My God, he has just been out of control great. And another fourth quarter again last night where he's just

a force of nature. And they have been, you know, they had to go that little amount of time without Vucci Maine, but they have been, they've been fantastic this year. And the DeRosen thing is truly

like, it's one of the good stories in the NBA for sure. I mean, I've said this a number of times, but he's a better player today than he was when he left Toronto. Yep. I think you've got to give credit to a guy who's 32 years old for getting better, even while in San Antonio when nobody was watching them, when they were an average team, and he was still getting better. Got to give credit to DeMarter Rosen for turning himself into what he has. He's even better than he was before. Yeah, and it also goes to, it also goes to show, and we saw this with a 36-year-old Chris Paul or whatever it was last year. We cannot

have you aged the same way anymore? No, not at all. Some of these guys are just, they can be at their apex. You know what I mean? Like, you feel like, oh, his prime or his better days are behind him, and that's just not so in many of these cases now.

Hopefully our boy Zion makes it to 32 healthy. Yeah, boy. Look, man, this, they were so weird about the injury. They were so weird about the surgery. They were so weird about when he's, coming back and then you get the seemingly good news, you know, a week or two ago, we talked about it. It's like, oh, he can start doing on-court activities before he ramps up and then,

you know, help is on the way for the pelicans. And then they come out yesterday and say, oh, he's had a setback and he's out. Now, now there are some. Soreness in his foot, right, Chris? Soreness. Well, there's some that will tell you that at the very beginning of all of this, when they said what kind of what kind of injury it was that like the fact that they were saying he was going to be back at some amount of time

that was soon was ludicrous anyway he was never going to be able to be back in that amount of time with the with after having surgery on his foot especially you know at his size the risk of that would just be severe and that it's typically something

that takes a long time to heal. And so, you know, there's part of me that has just rolled my eyes this whole time. Like, maybe he did have a setback. But it just feels like everything they've done along this way and talking about this has been convenient. You know, like, bro, he was never, he was never coming back for training camp. He was never coming back for the beginning of the regular season. He was never going to be on the court doing five on five. this week.

And like, just at the beginning, just say like, yo, here's what happened. He had surgery and he's going to be out this length of time.

But instead they keep on like teasing people like this guy's going to be able to come back when there was never a chance he was going to come back in the first place. And maybe he did have a setback. But I don't,

there's part of me that just says, that's probably cockamamie. I don't know. I don't buy it. There was an article that Scott Kushner wrote for nola.com and he's like it's time to stop

caring about the Zion health updates. After three years of this, it's made dupes of us all for expecting anything more. It's understandable to get fooled once, maybe even twice, but by now, there's just no faith left in anything that's said. And that's what was written by Scott Kushner.

And I agree with that. It's time to stop investing so much time into these updates about Zion. When he's back on the court, he's back on the court. Brooke Lopez had back surgery. That is something we did not know until, you know, now. And we talked about the Madden cousins, you know, a few days ago. There was rumblings that something could be up, you know, surgery-wise.

And there it is. Getting back surgery. That's scary. Especially when you're seven-footer. Yeah. I mean, Zach Lowe reported earlier in the week that there's optimism he'll be back by the playoffs. I'm not sure how there's any optimism in back surgery as we talked about.

I mean, that's scary. Hopefully he's able to get back, though. There was a story about the nets being open to trading Kyrie Irving. Cool. Who is trading? How many teams think are like? Who is trading for Kyrie Irving at this point? He's not playing basketball.

Like, the nets are open to it. No, thanks. Like, what do you think? You know what, guys? I'm sure that somebody is calling Sean Mark. And he is, he's saying, you know, hey, look, we'll talk to you about all manner of guys, but Kyrie's untouchable. Do you realize how outrageous that would sound?

The only guy, look, we can talk about the other guys on a roster, but Kyrie, it's a non-starter. Open to trading him. He doesn't play basketball. He's like post pictures of Indians and stuff every day on his Instagram account. Like he's not doing any, I don't know what he's doing. I really don't. I, I, he hasn't even referenced basketball in forever.

So maybe I was wrong about him. I thought that eventually he'd just show up. Are they still paying him? Yeah, they, they still pay him a lot of money, I'm pretty sure. Wow. What a deal he's got. All right. So here, here's the deal.

Brooklyn is unable to hold Irving's pay for away games. Um, so 19 million dollars, he's still going to get paid. So they don't have to pay everything. He's still going to get his money for away games. Wow. From what I understand, this is, this is from, uh, early October, early October that was reported. Because theoretically that was their choice. Yes, theoretically.

For him to not play in those. Yes, theoretically. Yeah. Yeah. So then they can't hold that money away from him. Right. Oh, wow. What a best.

Yeah. And then you have the Goren Dragit story, which I started reading it. And I was like, oh, man, I hope everything's okay. Because it said he was leaving, you know, the Raptors to deal with a personal matter. And I was like, geez, I hope everything's all right. And I'm not saying the guy doesn't have a personal matter. But I was reading the rest of the article. And like it was like all of these like really nice quotas.

He has been a model citizen and a great veteran for our team and whatever. and of course I'm rolling my eyes at all of that. But then it like ends the article and it's like, Dragha is expected to stay in Slovenia until a trade or a buyout. And I was like, wait, what? Like they have all these like this story about this personal matter and Gorin really needs to go deal with something. And then it's like this guy has been fantastic for the team and we will support. board him in his time away.

And then the article ended. It's like, Dragich is expected to stay in Slovenia until he's not on the Raptors anymore. And I was like, I guess they know it's a indefinite personal matter of which he needs to deal with. That was from Michael over at a sports net,

I believe, who reported that. He's always on top of things with the Raptors. But yeah, he said, I just found a tweet. Nothing is locked, but Dragich will likely remain in Slovenia, attending to Family Matters and training until trade deadline and or buyout market hits up. What is that?

Dealing with Family Matters. He's got an indefinite family matter. Until he's traded. Unbelievable. I thought that was funny. And then he says F you to the family. Dude, did you read that? Hello, Luca.

Did you read the quotes from like Masayu Jiri and whatever? And it's like, oh, he's been a great mentor for our young players. Why do we have to do this? No, and why do we have to put these quotes out there? We support him fully. I swear to God, I read the whole first part of the article. I read the whole first part of the article, like genuinely concerned for Goran Dragich and like, oh, my God. Like, did something happen with his family and whatever?

And then I read those quotes. And I'm like, oh, geez. And then I got to the end and they're like, he's expected to stay in Slovenia until the buyout market. And I was like, wait. Hold on now. This is outright. He never wanted to be there. And by the way,

like, I mean, I don't, we don't know what the family issue is, but like it's just, you know, the quotes about him being an amazing veteran and everything like that.

It's just like sometimes we don't need to go over the top with a, you know, part of what's happening. It's always been happening since the trade happened. He wants to go to Dallas. He wants to play with Luca, which is totally understandable. Those two are super tight.

They're from the same country. They've played together on the national teams. I understand. in wanting to play there. I get it. We're thinking of you, Gora. He's having a bad year, by the way, like statistically. I mean, he hasn't played a lot, but he hasn't been good. And you hope if he does get traded at some point, you hope that you're getting the

Goren dragage of like the pre-bubble, even what we saw last season in Miami, because the guy this year has not been good. All right, Kevin, I will talk to you next week. Thank you to our executive producer, Jesse Lopez, as always. Kevin, I'll talk to you next Tuesday. Looking forward to what Chris.