The Mismatch - Dissecting Why Malone Was Fired and Gearing Up for a Wild End to the Regular Season

Episode Date: April 11, 2025

Verno and Jacoby discuss the scorching-hot Timberwolves, who beat the Grizzlies last night 141-125 after scoring a league season-high 52 points in the third quarter and 44 points from Anthony Edwards (01:08). They also discuss the goofiness around Ja Morant’s new celebration. Next, they detail why they think the Nuggets cleaned house and fired head coach Michael Malone and GM Calvin Booth (18:42). Are the Nuggets the biggest wild card in the playoffs now? The guys then discuss why last night's Knicks-Pistons game wasn’t as important and will likely be the same as tonight’s Lakers-Rockets matchup, Pacers clinching home-court advantage, and why the Clippers could be the scariest team in the first round (42:15). Lastly, the guys discuss Luka Doncic’s epic return to Dallas and debate if Nico Harrison can leave any kind of legacy that doesn’t include trading away Luka (57:36). Leave us a message on our Mismatch Voicemail line! [phone] Walmart Express. Dinner, delivered in as fast as an hour The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Chris Vernon and David Jacoby Producers: Jessie Lopez and Tucker Tashjian Social: Keith Fujimoto Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Welcome to the mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon. And joining me see Dust every week from the ringer.com is Dave Jacoby. Jacoby. What's going down in Augusta, Chris Vernon. Well, first we've got to get to what's going on in Memphis because I went to the late TNT game. last night between the Minnesota Timberwolves and the Memphis Grizzlies. And there are many times over the years that I have said, if you go to an NBA game, you may see something that you've never seen before. In fact, there's a reasonable chance you're going to see something that you've

never seen before. And did I ever? A 52 point third quarter where the Minnesota Timberwolves were 18 of 21 from the field. of eight from three, nine of ten from the free throw line, Anthony Edwards had 18, Julius Randall had 14. This is just in the third quarter. And the wolf scored 52 points. And I guess the bright side is I saw history.

That is the most points. Anyone has scored in a quarter all season long in the NBA. And I was there. I bore witness to this last night. Not the greatest basketball viewing experience I've ever had in my life. I mean, I had to go look up what the real record is. What do you think the most points anybody's ever scored in a quarter is? Do you know offhand?

I don't know offhand, but I would guess it'd be in the 60s. I thought 52 was going to be. I mean, there shouldn't be time to score 52. My God, you got to score over four points a minute. When you said the 18 for 21, I don't remember the misses. It just seemed like they hit every single shot. And it's also a 17 to nothing run in there. It's like not only were they scoring 52 points.

They were shutting down Memphis at the same time. The record actually happened in 2023 in a regular season finale between the Warriors and the Blazers. And in the first quarter of the game on a Sunday, the Warrior scored 55 points. Oh, 55. They ended up winning the game 157 to 101. But when we are looking at last night's game, when Memphis can shoot 52% from the field and 50% from three and still get run out, you know there is a massive problem. And there's no doubt that when people are looking towards the play in and the playoffs coming up,

that those teams diverged a great deal over the course of the last month. and that includes last night because Minnesota has been fantastic. Going into last night's game, obviously I've got to do a lot of prep for it. They have had the second best offensive rating over the last 15 games in the league. The only one that has been better is the Clippers. And that's offense. Net rating, they're in the top five. They are behind only the Clippers, Oklahoma City, and Houston for net rate.

over the course the last 15 games. So if we're looking for teams going the right direction as we get to the most important segment of the season, Minnesota certainly applies. Well, when you look at this massive teams in the Western Conference vying for these secured spots, four, five, and six, and in the playing, the Timberwolves have a remaining schedule after beating the Grizzlies last night of the jazz and the nets. they first play the Nets and then they play the jazz. So you can pretty much, I mean, they're going to win those games.

It'd be shocked if they didn't win those games. I know. But this is the crazy thing. The crazy thing is I agree with you. They should. But like two nights ago, there's been so much that's happened. Oddly, there's been so much that's happened since we last spoke. One of the things that has happened is that Golden State was a 17.5 point favorite

against the Spurs. This didn't make big news because it happened so late. And I think most people just said, well, that one's not even worth watching. But the Warriors played the Spurs as a 17 and a half point favorite a few nights ago. And Harrison Barnes hit a three at the buzzer to beat them. Like, as someone who charts this stuff every day, allow me to say, I had that marked down as a 100% win for the Warriors. Oh, hell yeah. Oh, hell yeah. And it wasn't just a three. It was a crazy three. A crazy three. A crazy three, right? And one of the things that's sneaky about this is and it's one of the things we've got to watch over the course of the last couple of days is you've got these teams that have been tanking a great deal as they've gone down the stretch. But if you

look at the tank standings, like you could just go to tankathon.com. And they've got them all listed. If you look at those, now these teams are oddly at a point. There are several of them where they're not going to change their standings in that. So now they're trying. It's like, bro, we just spent a month with you not trying. And now you can't change the tank standings so the coach can coach, the players can play. And next thing you know, you've got the spurs beaten the Warriors because it doesn't affect their draft slide.

It's a really interesting point because we all. always talk about, like, well, the calves are solidified as the one seed, so maybe the rest some players down the stretch. But the reverse is also true. If you're solidified in your terrible record positioning, then winning doesn't hurt you the way it did a couple weeks ago so then you can go out and maybe win a game. That's a good point. And then everybody just goes out because they're like, this team ain't trying to win anyway.

And next thing, you know, they catch a little wave, but they're like, hell, it doesn't hurt. Nobody's going to be mad at us if we win. and in fact, I'm not going to get pulled out of the game because that's been the mode of operation as to try to get Adam Silver off their scent as if it works. Okay, so Scotty Barnes is killing it through three quarters. You're not playing the fourth. Colin Sexton plays a good first half. You're not playing in the second half, right? So they silently, you know, they soft quit, as Tom Havershrow called it.

And so now at the very end, when you look at those standings, it's like, all right, like the coach may actually coach the game. The players might actually play the game. And you came in expecting this team to just completely lay down and that it would take the literal minimum amount of effort in order to win your game. And then you get caught. And it's like, what just happened? Like we're in the dogfight in the standings and we lost the San Antonio. Well, I can see it because we always, we're going to talk about the second, the Grizzlies having to. fly to Denver to play their game this evening.

But the Timberwolves have to fly back to Minnesota and they've got the Nets. And as you mentioned, the Nets, they're feisty little team. You know what I mean? We never know. And they need to beat the Nets and the Jazz. But to your point, they could lose to the Nets tonight. It's possible. I don't think it'll happen, but it's possible.

But I see them winning out and solidifying their spot, which is a huge turnaround for this team and not a team you want to face in the playoffs. Well, and here is the massive difference between those. two teams. There's not one team in the Western Conference that doesn't want to face the Grizzlies. And now, if you're looking at it, you want to face or you do not want to face the Timberwolves. No. Right. You look at the way they have played over the course of, as I chronicled, the last 15 games where this is a team that you have thought of as an outstanding defensive team because of their perimeter defense, obviously Rudy Gobert on the back line. but their offense has been otherworldly as they are heading into the playoffs. And, you know, a moment to talk about Anthony Edwards, who, I mean, it looked like he could have had 60-something points last night.

If he would have just, if he would have kept his foot down on the gas, there's no amount of points he couldn't have scored last night. He was unbelievable. And he said he's been watching Michael Jordan videos. Yeah, he said, someone's showing him Michael Jordan videos. He's just like, have you not seen Michael Jordan play basketball before Anthony Edwards? He makes it sound like it's like wilt or something or like Dave DeBusher. Like some, some, there's this guy, Michael Jordan. I watched it play basketball before the game.

You guys familiar with Michael Jordan? Six is tongue out. Where's 23 for Chicago? And another thing I just want to say to Timberl's fans is like, I know Julius Randall's been playing well lately. But, whoof, I guarantee you Julius Randall will disappoint you. I guarantee you. Oh, he was great last night. Oh, he was fantastic.

He was fantastic. But this is where he builds up the expectations and the hope. You can't be disappointed by someone who doesn't sort of like perform well to begin with. So this is what he does. This is his okey doke. I've seen it before. Trust me, Timberwolves fans. He will disappoint you in the playoffs.

This is spoken like a true Knicks fan. Oh, he will disappoint you in the playoffs. I guarantee it. Well, they are on a heater right now, and certainly one of those teams that you look at as you head into the playoffs that is not going to get a home court advantage seed more than likely. It's still on the tape. I mean, it's still possible. But even if they don't, they're one of those teams that there will at least be a segment of people that pick them to pull an upset over one of the. And if you are one of those top four seeds, not a team you want to see right now.

No. Not a team you want to see. No. I mean, if it ends up being the Lakers, I would pick the Lakers over them. But, you know, I think they've proven to be a tough out for the Nuggets, which is another potential matchup for. I mean, who knows what the matchups are going to be at this point, which is what makes the next three days so much fun.

But they're playing well. They're peaking at the right time. I will tell you one good thing that happened as I went to the arena last night because I did watch a team have 52 points in a quarter, which was. have looked good. First half looked good. And evidently, look, so I can't speak to the television broadcast, you could. But I will say this. This was one good thing that took place. So before the game, I get a message from a guy

that I have talked about on this very show before, who I do not know at all. I get a message from Brian Anderson, the play-by-play guy for TNT. And he's like, I love that. the master's updates. Yes. I'm calling your game tonight. Come find me before the game. And so I got down to the arena early and I'm like, I got to go meet this guy. I love this guy.

Of course. Brian Anderson calls. I mean, he has great calls, basketball, baseball playoffs. He's actually, he does Brewer's games on a regular basis on TV as, I guess, his day job usually. But I'm a big Brian Anderson fan. So I went and I met him and he says to me, he's like, I need to tell you this story. And I was like, all right.

And he's like, the way I found you, the way I came about you years ago with the master's update, he goes, I was calling the match on TNT. You know how they put together those. It'll be like Tom Brady and Brooks Kevka versus Peyton Manning and Roy. Watchable. Those are oddly watchable television events. I find myself checking on them and then like 40 minutes later. I'm like, why am I still watching this? So Brian Anderson calls those. And he's like, years ago, I was calling one of those matches in Arizona. And we're riding around. And Trevor Emmelman, who by the way, is the broadcaster along with Jim Nance for all of the majors on CBS now. He has taken Nick Fowler's spot. Trevor Emelman. is also a former master's champion. Okay? He's like,

Trevor Emmelman said, you've got to see this guy. And I'm like, okay, okay. This might be the coolest thing that's ever happened. I was like, this is crazy. So the only reason this guy knew me was because Trevor Emelman,

former master's champion, told him, you got to see these master's updates. And he's like, and I've loved them ever since, and I wanted to meet up with you, and he could not have been cooler, absolutely the coolest.

Now, I wasn't able to see the broadcast, but I heard on the broadcast, a lot of Joss celebration talk. What? That's what I heard. You think? I mean, was there?

So here's what's happening. So I can't, I don't see what they're talking about. I don't know. Oh, it's all anyone was talking about. Honestly, they scored 52 points in a quarter. Anthony Edwards looks like the best player on the planet.

And it's a huge win. Playoff implications all over the place. But all the discussion at halftime was about Jaws new celebration. And I love to hear what you think. Listen, I know you've seen it. So stop playing, okay? You've seen it, all right? He throws his words into the crowd and then blocks up the noise.

Here's the quote that my friend Chris Vernon is referencing. After we've seen the grenade celebration. Everyone who's listening to this has seen it by now, right? And here's what he said about when he's asked about it. Quote, listen, it's not what you think it is. I'm taking my words and I'm throwing them out there. I'm speaking jaw. I'm being jaw.

I'm going to take my words. I'm going to throw them out there. And then I'm going to block out the noise. What's going on, Chris Vernon? people don't think that's funny I just that is a legitimately funny thing to say

it is I just like here's what I think is happening and you tell me where I'm wrong I think John Moran I think he's very upset about the $75,000 fine I think he's pissed

and I think he's like oh you're going to do that he's I think he's going at the man he's like oh you're going to find me for the for the gun celebration, well, now I'm going to do a grenade celebration. If you find me for that one,

and then I'm going to do a flamethrower celebration. If you find me for that one, and then I'm going to do a bow and arrow. And if you find me for that one, I'm going to do a crossbow. If you find me for that one, I'm going to stab somebody.

Like, he's just going to keep going and going and going. Can we be fair here and say nobody would care if they were winning? No one would care if it wasn't job. I think it's just because it's a job. That's what it is. I don't care.

I really don't. I don't get what he does anymore. You don't think it's fun. You don't think, am I crazy here? I tried to remove myself from the situation as much as I can and say, what if this were happening elsewhere? I would think that that's funny that when he is asked about it to say,

that's not what you think. I'm throwing my words into the crowd. And then he's covering his ears to block out the noise. Because when you're at home and you hit a three-point shot. You want to block out the noise. Right. You don't want to hear all that applause and cheering after you hit a shot. You've got to block out that positive feedback.

And so, look, I mean, we're to the point now where, I don't know, the high horses are extreme. There's no way around that. And obviously, look, if you do it and you're winning, nobody cares. If you do it and you're losing, you're immature, and it's too much to deal. with and this and this and this, right? Like, I mean, we understand. And again, if you want to argue that because you're not in a winning situation, because your team has faltered a great deal, that you shouldn't be doing anything that

draws attention to yourself, I suppose we could have that argument. But, I mean, again, I have thought all of this has been goofy. I think the idea, I think the idea that we are making celebrations a topic. is goofy. Yes. And I think that if you're like, if you're going so far as to say that he's celebrating violence and he's got this checkered history and influencing children, I guess you could make that argument. But counterpoint, it's a basketball game. You know what I mean? It's like, it's a basketball game. Can we just like have fun, please? I get what you're saying and you're not wrong. But counterpoint, he made a three point shot in an NBA basketball game.

That's what happened. The next game that Memphis is going to play is against the aforementioned Denver Nuggets. And it is the fired coach bowl because since we last spoke, the Denver Nuggets ousted Michael Malone. In fact, it happened about three hours after we recorded on Tuesday. and I was absolutely in stunned disbelief that this happened. There is a sentiment that Memphis crawled so Denver could walk. And I do think that there is, I do think that there is a very valid argument

that if Memphis would not have ousted Taylor Jenkins, that Michael Malone would still be the coach of the Denver Nuggets, that it is so, but theirs was even more extreme because, A, their team has a better chance of winning big, and B, he's won a title, and there was only three games left.

Oh, don't forget, C, they also fired Calvin Booth. That was the part. I was shut. I was like, how do you fire Michael Malone? And then you see the follow-up report. It's like, they also fired Calvin Booth. That to me was like, just, I was like, floored by that information. And it really reminded me of like

when two of my kids are fighting over something and I'm just like, you know what? I don't even care who's right or who's wrong. You're both in trouble and I'm taking away whatever you're fighting over. That's what it felt like Cronky did. He was just like, oh, you guys can't get along and you guys are causing tension and problems

and this serious fracture in the franchise. Well, you're gone. And guess what? You're also gone. Nobody wins later. I was shocked. Well, and then there was the report. that he wanted to do this at the All-Star break,

but what ended up, they were kind of, like there was an eight-game win streak in the mix. And so then the idea, and then it was one of those things where it feels like, all right, um, I'm thinking about breaking up. I'm thinking about breaking up.

I'm thinking about breaking up. But man, we're so happy right now and everything's so good. But then the next time something goes wrong, it like conjures up all of those. reasons that you wanted to break up in the first time. And so it's like this is now, like, it, as he said, winning masked it. But once you have those feelings of, yo, I don't want this anymore.

And then you, you've, and that and then you question yourself, then as soon as it goes bad again, that's when it's, that's when it's like now the crucial time. and you've just decided like, yes, my, your first feelings were valid. That's what I'm saying. It almost felt like he was upset about the winning streak because he wanted to fire Malone. And he was just waiting for any reason, just anything, any blip in the radar, a couple losses, weird press conferences. And when he got it, he pounced. Because it was a four-game losing streak and a couple of weird comments and, you know, Malone's style.

And it just seemed like he was like, oh, cool, now I can do it. And it feels like there is some causality to me firing it. Well, and one of the things that has been drastically different between these two was, look, as someone who was in Memphis, I was waiting for the reporter's notebooks to be unloaded, as our buddy Brian Curtis would say. And it's like, oh, now you tell us stuff, right? Like, here's all this stuff. And in the case of Memphis, right, Ramona Shelburne wrote a big article about it, like inside how

it ended with Taylor Jenkins. And it was like, John Morant, you know, touches were down and their record versus good teams and their defense had faltered. And it was all like pretty standard. We all knew all of that. Oh, yeah, right. This reporter's notebook stuff on Malode is otherworldly. I mean, it's the Westbrook stuff. It's them fighting about the use of Westbrook.

It's everybody in the place was miserable. It's I saw and forgive me I don't know the podcast So I'm telling you off the bat Forgive me because it's one of those things And this is I should be more responsible And I should just stop

And I should write this stuff down But I get into the whole Just scroll through Scroll through scroll through Thing There was like a Denver podcast That showed up on the On the feed as I was scrolling through

And this guy I didn't really perk up Until this guy is telling this story About how how much Michael Malone, like, resented Jalen Pickett? I guess that that was the source of consternation, one of the sources of consternation between him and Calvin Booth, right? The GM says, hey, I draft all these awesome players,

but you don't play them, develop them, whatever. And so the premise of the video was this guy saying, here's a story for you. he would set up practices and the teams would break up but then Michael Malone would change it to set up in order to make it like totally impossible for Jalen Pickett to do anything but be terrible and then he would like actively mock the things that he was bad at like dribbling the ball high or whatever it was

and I was like okay like when we're to the point where you're unloading you know somebody is now leaking out stories of the coach be raiding the young player on the team that the GM wants to play or whatever. I'm like, this is getting pretty salacious. And so it's crazy. It's crazy. The Westbrook thing is wild to me because I honestly think if he makes that layup, Malone is still the coach.

If he makes that layup against the Timberwolves, Malone is still the coach. Because imagine you have these feelings. Or if he doesn't foul Nikile Alexander Walker on the three. Yeah. I mean, because if you think about it, if there, all these reports are basically about the tension between Booth and Malone and Booth drafting players, picket, swather, whatever, like that he thinks should get more run and have more a chance to play. And Malone, this is like, this is a tale is old as time. The coach wants to play the vets. The, you know, the GM wants, this is like not new.

But the idea that that he supports Westbrook in this way and that the franchise in the front office does not. and there's this fracturing, and then you're in this huge game in the standings, national TV, double overtime, and the guy who you think should not be playing, the guy who you think the coach puts too much faith in as a veteran, misses a layup and boughs and jump shooter to lose the game? Like, I can only imagine what happens behind the scenes.

I can only imagine what the conversations are like between Booth and Malone doesn't sound like there's many, or Booth and Cronkey after that, because I'm sure Booth calls up and says, this is my point exactly. Right. And now Denver has to try to win games the rest of the way. And all these clips were seeing like, Yokic is taken over.

Like he's on the bench with the whiteboard. I love it. There's a Yokic quote I found interesting about after the firing. He said, quote, I knew a little before everybody. And he told me, quote, we made a decision. I'm sure he's talking about the owner. So it was not a discussion. it was a decision, he told me why,

and so I listened and I accepted it. I'm not going to tell you what he told me. I'm going to keep that private. Now, I'm not going to read too much into that, but I do know when you're in a professional environment, when the boss comes and tells you something and asks you something. And it sounds like the boss wasn't asking Yokic for his blessing. He was telling Yokic what happened.

That's how I read that quote. and well there wasn't going to be much of a discussion i will say this though you know if you're josh kronky you know you know if how this is going to be taken you know that there is going to be public comment one way possibly but you're not making this if you think it means you're losing the faith of your best player completely I don't think you're doing this. I think you have to know. And part of that is, look, okay, so they don't need to have some kind of discussions

and they don't need to have some kind of sit downs. All you have to do is these guys talk to the agents. They talk to the agents. There's always a way that they have an awareness of how these players feel. And it would be beyond irresponsible to not go to the agent of said player and other you have a myriad of ways. Whether you are talking to the player directly or not, you have a myriad of ways of knowing how your team feels

and how this will go over amongst them. What is very clear to me is what we see is the four game losing streak, right? That's what we see. But reading everything that I've read about this decision and these two people losing their jobs, it sounds like all-time bad vibes team. Like they said it was miserable. It just sounds like it was miserable.

So if you think about that, like think about we see the two and a half hours where they play the basketball games, but think about the flights, think about the practices, think about the pregame speeches from the coach. If it's just so broken and fractured, we always say the quote,

losing the locker room, but it just seems like everyone was upset and unhappy. So I think if that is the case, If you are the owner and you're talking to Yokic, I don't think Yokic is going to push back that much because it is so obviously broken that change needs to happen. And people say like, oh, no one's ever been fired this late in the season and how can a contending team fire their head coach?

Because there's so much going on that we don't know. And I'm not going to sit here and say that I spoke to five guys that played for the nuggets. But you can just tell decisions like this are made because there is such a fracture in the franchise that they're trying to salvage anything. And they need to make a change. Well, because you have to be very careful. I mean, with any of these type of situations, you have, and especially when you start to double down on youth for your team and whatever is the next, whatever is the next step for your franchise, one of the hard parts about that is now you are dealing with personalities that don't know how to handle a change in role.

on a regular basis, right? They're finding their way within the league and now you have a coach that you don't think is necessarily on your side or particularly, your rope's not very long. I might play six minutes tonight. I might play 20 minutes tonight, whatever. So your roles are less defined.

Whereas you could go back in time to their championship year and it's the Jeff Greens and it's the Bruce Browns and it's the DeAndre Jordans. You've got a bunch of bets. The young guys, the young guys, Those become the minority on that team, right? So there's only a very few amount of guys that are sitting there trying to make their way in the NBA that are going like, man, this dude doesn't play me, this dude doesn't like me, this guy, whatever. As that number grows, it is very difficult to be that way, right?

Because now there were two guys in the bus that were bitching about their plight. and now there's eight. Yep. Right? You got a 15-man roster. So when you go into the locker room, there's eight guys that aren't happy with the way things are going for them. That makes it very, very hard to have a cohesive team, a happy team, and quote, good vibes. When you see the teams with good vibes, they are the ones that one through 15 knows exactly what's expected of them.

those are the teams that know exactly what's expected of them. You know, I bring this up three times a year. It was one of the things that I told you about Hubey Brown many years ago. He used to say, you have got to have the best player on your side. So I always think about that in any situation where stuff like this happens. So that's number one. And number two, the reason that he always played, he had a 10-man rotation. And at that time, there were 12.

guys on your roster in the league. And that was the basis of it. It was because 10 guys are going to get up and they're going to know exactly what's expected of them that day and that evening. They know they're going to play their minutes. They know what's expected of them. And he goes, and then there's two that don't like the way this is going for them. But the 10 totally drown out the two.

Right? So those guys are either going to. going to get on board and be okay with their situation or they're not, but it's only two of them. I got 10 guys that are content and know exactly what's expected of them. And that's what I would tell you, when the nuggets were great or whatever team you're going to look for, they've got an extreme amount of guys that know exactly what's expected of them and are content with their situation. But what happened in this spot to me is Calvin Booth then said, all right, I want people. Peyton Watson. I want Christian Brown. I want whatever. The coach doesn't want to do that.

And so now your number of discontented players grows every single year. And then you get rid of KCP. So now you add another one of a guy that's not going to be thrilled with this spot. And then you're going to have Russell Westbrook come in. And so he's going to now take the spot of whoever, whatever young guy thought he was going to get his chance. And so, you know, it's still crazy to fire a guy three games left in the season. It's crazy. And it's also like to your point, there's these reports that Malone treated like Murray and Yokic with special treatment.

Guess what? Yeah. One is the best player in the world. You're going to treat him differently than everybody else. And the other one was the second offensive engine that brought you a championship. And then I started looking at the roster. And I'm like, so who is it? Who's upset that Malone is treating them?

with this special treatment because it's not Westbrook. It's not DeAndre Jordan. So is there this faction of like young players that you mentioned like Brown and Watson and Pickett that they're like upset about this and then vocal about it and fracturing the locker room and making everything miserable? I don't know what's going on there. Well, and the crazy thing is I don't think it's necessarily has to be some kind of I don't think they're vocal about it.

I'm thinking like it's a vibe that goes on, right? If I'm all, like I was watching this video the other, uh, the other day about the, the pistons, right? And pistons that are,

they're taking their team pitchers and they got their team belt and they got this boom box in the whatever. And it's like, you can tell the teams that's because there's 12 guys or 15 guys and they're all in this like huddle and they're all doing their dances and they're all in line and they're all like and when that number when there's six guys excited about what's about to happen that night and nine that are like I don't even know if I'm playing or not and the GM it keeps telling me that he's supporting me and that he I should be playing but the coach

won't play me it's like it just leads to you're right like that's why we have moved especially in this day of age to front offices hiring younger coaches that can all, that they decide they're going to pull the same rope, right? Basically, the whole, we're all on the same page. We're not going to fire you because you're developing a player. We don't have to win every single night if it means that we're getting to do this and whatever. And so somebody that they can, I don't want to say control because that gives the negative connotation, but somebody that they feel like this is a real partnership.

Because Michael Malone is from the old school, which is, you're not a basketball coach. I'm a basketball coach. You get the players. I'll coach the team. Leave me alone. Not only will I coach the team, I'm good at coaching the team. So leave me alone.

And that's just not, I don't think, Michael Malone is one of the very few that is left of the Let me coach my team. Leave me alone, guys. Well, his dad is like a legendary coach here in the city. Like his dad, they won, his dad won championships in high school.

He went on to coach in the league. But like the Malone family is like a family of basketball life for coaches. And he's not going to want to hear that he's not going to want to see Calvin Booth come up on his phone and pick up. up the phone and hear that Peyton Watson needs to play more minutes. You know what I mean? It's like that is not your role. I am the head basketball coach.

My dad was a basketball coach. I've been groomed for this lifestyle and these decisions and I will make them. Thank you very much, Mr. Booth. Well, and you wonder if this all actually started with the whole Tim Conley going to Minnesota, right? Like once it becomes an arranged marriage, like you have to have a relationship with that kind of guy, right? So you have to know and have a relationship with Rick Carlisle.

Because then you can be on the same page. Or you have to know and have a relationship with Tom Tibido. Because then you can be on the same page. You know exactly what you're getting into. But you can't have an arranged marriage with a guy like that, right? That has to be somebody. You knew exactly what you were getting into when you hired this guy. You knew he was going to be a leave me alone kind of guy.

but you've got the relationship where you can get through to him. But guys like that, it becomes very difficult to have a range of marriages with. And it cost both Calvin Booth and Michael Malone their jobs, which is crazy. One of the things I think back to is Michael Malone was enjoying himself at that parade after they won the championship. No question. He was enjoying himself. And we saw a side of him that he doesn't present to the cameras and microphones very often. And I remember him promising that they were going to bring back Brucey B.

Remember that? He's like, Bruce B, we're going to bring you back. And anyone who knows the implications of that, I was like, wait a second. Well, the salary cap is what it is. And he's played really well. He earned himself a pretty good number with this championship and the role that he's been playing on the team. And you have to wonder, like, when he gets the information after saying Bruce B, we're going to bring you back, that Bruce B is signed somewhere else, it just starts to show you that like the winning can mask.

a lot of problems and fractions. And I think that that championship glossed over a lot of philosophical differences in that franchise. But the further you get separated from that parade and the more sort of things that happened, it sounds like this was truly like a him or me situation. Like if you work there, you're either team booth or team alone and there's no straddling that fence. And the owner's just like, guess what? Now you're team nuggets because there's no team booth and team alone anymore.

And I get it. So we will see not only when Denver plays against Memphis tonight with a massive game with playoff implications, but also how they close out their season. And they, to me now, like we were just talking about Minnesota and how the vibes are so good and the feelings so good, despite their collapse against Milwaukee, after what they pulled off against Memphis and the way they've played generally over the course of the last three weeks, has led you to believe that they're a more dangerous team. than maybe you previously would have. Denver's got to be the biggest wild card.

We have no idea. How do we know what? I mean, I don't know what to expect because things have changed so much. And it's like, what are they going to look like as a playoff team? And because we don't have enough time to evaluate, hey,

here's what the Nuggets look like without Michael Malone. Like, I don't know. Don't forget that. Before Malone was fired, there was this information about Jamal Murray's injury. So when you talk about a wild card, like I could see them being like an easy first round exit if it's just Yokic and a bunch of dudes.

But like I could also see them as like, guess what? Jamal Murray's fine. And they have the best player in the world. He put up a 41, 20, and 15 game and dragged them to a series victory over the Lakers. Like it is the sort of like lowest floor, highest ceiling team that we have throughout the playoffs in both conferences. This episode is brought to you by Walmart.

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those where how are you feeling on the nicks a possible matchup with the pistons i uh listen you know i've been pretty vocal about not being very confident in this nix team um and watching the game last night i was terrified when brunson went out because you were at the get you were at the grizzlies games i don't think you saw but brunson like tweaked zank a little bit he ended up being fine He didn't look great throughout, but it was a really impressive performance from Cade, who was just like, listen, I mean, saying that like Cade Cunningham has had a breakout season isn't, you know, groundbreaking. But he's controlling that offense and getting what he wants and just really is the conductor

of the orchestra that is the Pistons. And between Beefstew and Jalen Duren, they're just so strong underneath. Like, Jalen Dern is just so strong. He was nine for nine last night. It just seemed like there was just no answer for him. And there's one little aspect to this series that seems like a very small thing, but it's worth mentioning little report out of Detroit. The forgotten Jaden Ivy has been approved for basketball activities.

Now, listen, that might mean he never sees the floor for the rest of the season. But I think a lot of people while celebrating Detroit, and I've mentioned on this show before, forget just how important he was to this team and what a great season he was having. as predicted by my friend and co-host Chris Vernon. He was my breakout player. If he could come back, if he could come back, that's a, that's a series changer right there. No way. Oh, yeah.

I would be, no, I'm saying I would be stunned if he could come back. I would be too. But basketball activities, that could mean, that just might mean that he's just prepping for next season. You know what I mean? Well, and there was no An Anobie last night, right? Yeah, it did feel like, it felt like one of those games where neither team wanted to really show what they, were going to do in game one of that potential series. You know what I mean?

It just felt like a little bit like a spar than a fight. You know what I mean? I did see the precious dunk on beefs too. That's one of those where it's like you go and you hammer it down. And then you're like, I don't really know how I should react to this moment. Because this guy might, right? Like I don't. There's a lot of guys that you could like, you know.

And it felt like they both just turned around and started sprinting the other direction. Like, let's just act like this never happened. Exactly. Yeah. It was like the brothers of White Lotus. But I honestly, like, the most shocking thing about that dunk was that it didn't end in a fist bite. I know. Because when they ended up tangled up in the stanchet, I was just like, I was holding my head like, oh, my God.

This is, this is going to change the rest of the next season. You know what I mean? I was like, this is going to. I was like, I was just shocked. And then they, what happens, the Pissons just quickly imbounded it. And I guess they both just ran back on D-Bond. No, they just ran the other way. Yeah, yeah. There was the most surprising

thing that's happened this entire season. Forget Michael Bologne getting fired. Forget everything. Forget the Luca trade. The Luca trade is second to that not being a fight. Yeah, it is precious that you were slamming it down on B-stew and then them just turning and running. Yeah, yeah.

It's like, uh, the cabs have or I'm sorry, the Pacers, have clinched home court advantage with their win over the Cavaliers. And there have been many times over the course of the last several months that we have talked about the Pacers. And, man, since the calendar turned, they have been a radically different team. We've talked about Halliburton. We've talked about Siakum. Obviously this year they bring Matherin to the party.

And one of the things that we said throughout the beginning of the year was, man, is that old Tyrese Halliburton, is he still in there and we're just not seeing it? And eventually it'll come back around or was that a flash in the pan, the first three months of the 2024, 2020 season? And the answer is it was not a flash of the pan. And he has been absolutely fantastic. they've got their rotation down. They've got their guys. They bring some weird stuff to the table because they really do have like change of pace guys that they can bring off the bench.

Sometimes they bring Matherin off and he can create the change of pace. Obviously T.J. McConnell will have like a 12 point quarter every once in a while to get you these three extra weird Jose Alvarado-esque steals. And then Obie, who we've mentioned, like can swing again by coming in and getting buckets for you. And so I think NMR needs to be mentioned too because he'll get you on both ends of the floor. Yeah. And I mean, look, they're, they had a lot of holes poked in their Eastern Conference finals performance or rather attendance last year.

But I think it's fair to say the calves are going to have a bitch of a series in the second round no matter. no matter if they draw the Pacers or the Bucks, you're either seeing that Pacers team who has been fantastic. And so I think it just adds another really good playoff series that maybe we weren't counting on that I don't think, I think if either of those teams were to come out of it, we're getting a hard fought series either way. And that has been at the beginning of the season, we always said, it's going to be the Cavs.

Well, once the Cavs, we realized that they're, we're devastating. At the beginning of the season, I did not say the Chats are going to win 70 games. Right. Well, honestly, we thought Philly was going to be there at the time. Right. And we know how that went.

But the Cavs, Boston, the Knicks, and then Milwaukee. But what has happened is the second half of the season, certainly the Pacers have moved into that area. And with home court advantage against the buck, You know, honestly, I'm just, we have set our sights on probably not seeing an upset in either the two or three seed. And so there would be a collision course with the Celtics and the Knicks. But that second round Cavs versus series could be absolutely fantastic. Well, it's worth mentioning that the Bucks play the Pistons twice.

If they lose both of those, they could end up as the six seed. but that's unlikely to happen. It's fair to say, but it's worth mentioning. But in a Pacer's Buck series, I don't, there's any other permutation of a first round series, there isn't another one that I am more split on. I would not be surprised if either team swept the series.

Really? I would not be surprised. That's just how close it is to me. Like, it's like, I see it being a long, hard-bought series, but it's just one of, this is the one where I'm like, I don't have a handle on who I,

I would pick to win this series. And I think one thing is also worth mentioning, because I'm sure a lot of people are... A healthy, Yonis team is not getting swept. Fair, but I wouldn't be shocked. What I'm saying is it's a tight series, all right? Yeah. Don't nitpick me, all right?

Chris Barney. I'll say this, though. One thing worth mentioning is a fold familiar face popped up recently. Bobby Portis. And remember, he's not coming back from injury. Right. He doesn't have to, like, work himself back. It's not like, oh, are we going to get, you know, a game ready Bobby Portis.

When you're suspended, you're ready to go. You know, he's not, he's not like coming back from some surgery or something. And I think he's a difference maker. And unfortunately, it doesn't look like we're going to see Dame, though. It doesn't. Even though about a week and a half ago, Doc Rivers made it sound like we would. That was odd. It is, especially when you're talking about something that is life-threatening.

Yeah, like, I don't, I've never taken blood dinners. Hey, we got good news and he's going to be able, like, what? Yeah, it's like, oh, he had a great workout yesterday. It's like blood clots and blood, I don't know. I don't know. It just seems odd. It just seems odd. But, you know, I don't, I don't know what the, there's no one that can really stop Janus.

But I don't know if Sechakram is the guy. I don't know if Miles Turner is the guy. I'm with you. That's what I said. I think it's going to be great. I don't know what they do with Janus. I don't know what they do with Janus. We have absolutely no way of being able.

to project the Western Conference. And that is the good part about this last weekend of the season that we've got coming up. Obviously, you can take a quick look at the schedule and understand. I mean, Clippers Warriors on Sunday with massive seeding implications is just crazy. As I mentioned, in the last 15 games, and you could probably extend this even further, the Clippers have the second best defense by defensive rating in the entire NBA. they are second to, and this is going to interest you, only Orlando, whose offense sucks, but they did get their defensive mojo back.

I understand it can be function of schedule, but they have performed as they have performed, which is they've performed very well defensively, right? And we know they're big team, and they are certainly offensively challenged, but at least they won all their games at the beginning of the season with defense too. They sucked, you know, offensively at the beginning of the year, but they were so high on defense. But anyway, the clippers are number two on defensive rating in the last 15 games. They are number one in offensive ratings. I'm shocked.

The last 15 games. And they are number one in net rating the last 15 games. So per 100 possessions, they have outscored their opponents plus 17. So if we're looking, if we're just extrapolating, and again, I understand this can be scheduled dependent. Of course. The top five teams in net rating the last 15 have been the Clippers, Oklahoma City, Houston, Minnesota, and Boston. But the Clippers, five points better than everybody else. And so now they face the Warriors coming up on Sunday with massive seeding implications.

I mean, look, anybody could go back and listen to the old. I told you the clippers are going to be the, they're the scary one. A healthy Kauai Clippers is the scary one. It's almost not fair. It's just you don't know what you're going to get from Kauai Leonard. And we talk about the Pacers being a hot team going into the playoffs. And I mean,

number one in the offense, number two in defense in the last 15 games, and they're fighting to secure a playoff spot. Right. This could be a, this could be like a de facto playing game. basically. Yes. Between the two of them.

Oh, yeah. And I mean, look, depending on how this goes, it's not the clipper game that is going to stick in the Warriors Crawl. It's the... It's Harrison Barnes. It's Harrison Barnes hitting that shot.

Those are the ones. It seems like Harrison Barnes was the most surprised person in the building that that went in. Honestly. We have a great weekend. Because, I mean, we've got Lakers Rockets. I mean, again, you don't know

who's going to play. you don't know what these teams are going to show. And you also, as this is what's made it so good, but yet so impossible to predict. And maybe it's just one of those things where that was just such an extreme outlier that it's not fair to say that that could happen again, kind of like the lucet trade or something, where it's like, that doesn't mean that stars are just going to get traded, right?

But the Spurs thing, and as I mentioned, you already solidifying your spot in the tanking rankings that some of these tanking teams, because you see the Lakers still have a game against the Blazers and the Warriors still have a game against the Blazers. We're talking about this Warriors Clippers game, but the Clippers have to beat the Kings. Right.

You know what I mean? I'm just kind of like assuming that's going to happen, but you can't make these kind of assumptions, especially after that Warrior Spurs game. And as you said, with the wolves, they've got the nets and the jazz, which we mark down as wins. But it's like if those teams don't have to purposely lose because their spot is already secured, and you walk in with the mindset of we're playing a tanking team, like these tanking teams are pulling the wool over people. You know what I mean?

Like they're, it's like they've played possum or something. Like, yeah, we were trying to lose and we did suck for the last. That's month and a half, but, like, we ain't got to lose now. Like, we can go ahead and win and have fun and maybe take a good vibe in. When the Timberwolves score 52 points on a nationally televised game against the Grizzlies, you, like, you feel good about them. And, you know, you've got the Nets and the Jazz left. And you're like, oh, yeah, those are wins.

But this is also the same team that was up. Were they up 25 on the bucks in the fourth quarter and lost? It's the same team. Like, so, Judge Tide, tell me, they can't get beaten by the Nets. They were up like 25 in the fourth. I think it was 10. I think it was a 10 point lead with like four minutes left to go last night. Memphis had gone on like a 16 to 2 run.

And then when it was 10, they had like a wide, they had an open three that they missed that would have cut it to seven. And it's like, bro, are the wolves doing this again? Are they playing with their food again? Like, you literally just did this. You just played. And then they obviously got back on track and mangled them the rest of the way. But there was a moment where it was like, are you seriously going to, like, you seriously

just going to let a team come back from? They were down. Nymphis were down 20. And I got it. It's a game of runs. But like, that thing, if, if I think it's Bain, like, if he hits that three, it's seven with plenty of time left and the freaking roof comes off and it's like, I can't believe this.

Instead, it went the other way. Randall hits a shot, 12, then they hit another shot, whatever, 15, it's over, right? But yeah, it's so impossible to know how these things are going to shake out because, I mean, we can't even count on the tanking teams not trying anymore. You look at the Timberwolves, you've got the nets in the jazz, and you're like, they should win each game by 40 points. They really should. They really should.

If we've learned anything, it's that we know nothing. So obviously this will all be hashed out by the weekend. One thing we do need to mention before we get out of here, I got legit, like, I don't want to say emotional because I'm not emotionally tied to it. But I will say melancholy

watching all of the Luca video. Like, dude, that was hard to watch. It really was like, I mean, I hate to do another breakup analogy, but like, somebody got broken up with and they never wanted to get broken up with. And then they walk back in to the bar or the house, whatever. And then all of the friends love that person so much. They love that, right? You know what I mean? The whole friend group loves that.

Your mom is mad. Yeah, it's so upset. How did you ruin this, Jacoby? Yeah, this is, everybody, everybody's so upset that y'all aren't together anymore.

And then they're going to play a video and you're going to have to sit there as the person broken up with and you're just going to ball your eyes out because I never wanted this. And this was, and then you got the friends crying, and you're crying.

and it's like, no, this is the worst. I've never experienced anything like that before. And then for him to come out and score 31 in the first half, just hitting everything. And then the fans are chanting. The whole thing was just surreal. But as from like a human emotional element, I did feel bad for Luca,

but I also feel bad for Nico Harrison. It's like, no. I do. No, I don't. this guy. I'm just like, I just imagine being him because I think when he pulled the trigger, I don't think he thought this would be the result.

Like, I think in his mind, he was like, I'm making a basketball decision and I've got sound basketball reasons. I will express those to our fans and they will be on board with this. And it's not how this is gone whatsoever. The only

excuse I will accept at this point is I was super hammered. And it's, Palika took me out in the town. He must have put something in my drink. I don't know what that was. I thought we were getting coffee, but I don't know what happened. It's, it's nuts. It's absolutely nuts.

And to have him scored 31 in the first half, and it's just crazy. And what is, what is weirder than him standing in the tunnel while everybody in the crowd? I mean, it was so loud that Mike Breen on TV was having to ignore. it. Oh, yeah. And you know they don't want to. You know they don't want to acknowledge it. And then they show him like standing there in the tunnel.

And I'm like, I mean, there's part of me and you were the same way where we're both, we both care what people think about us, right? Like you don't want, I don't want people to ever get the wrong impression of what kind of person I am or what I'm all about or whatever. Like I do care, right? And I think most people do. do. There's part of me that's like, I will say a little, I don't want to, envious. I don't wish I had all of that, but I do wish I had more than I have of whatever Nico Harrison has in absolute

spades, which is you have to truly not care, right? You have to truly not care what people think about you and you have to not care about what people think about you forever. Oh, yeah. Like, till the end of time, you have to not care what people think about you. You are the guy that traded Luca Donchitz. And you're also, like, four months removed from being this brilliant basketball mind that brought in Derek Jones, Dr. Gafford in Washington. Like, you remember how celebrated he was?

Like, let's not forget that finals. run, Nico Harrison became part of the story because of the brilliant moves he was making. I mean, you can't even go to, like, the store. You can't even, like, go to your kids game. There's nowhere he could possibly go without looking around and people either saying something to him or, at best, is doing, like, the whisper thing. Oh, yeah. And it's like, that's going to be your exact.

You have to be so confident that you don't care, that that's just going to be your existence. The idea that I, like, could it go to my kids' games or walk into the store, you know, this weekend or go anywhere without people like, he dissing me or really dissing me all the time would be, I can't fathom that. I can't fathom that. It would drive me crazy, everybody hating me. He could cure cancer. He could cure cancer and he would still be the legacy would be the guy that traded Luca Donchage.

That's who he is forever, the guy that trained Luca Donchish. Even in other areas of life, right? Whether we're talking politics or anything else, there's going to be a percentage of people that love you. So at worst, you could surround yourself with them, right? Yes. Who loves him? Like, nobody, like Anthony Day.

Andy Davis don't even love. Who? What's the hypothetical scenario in which we all look back and be like, Nico was right. He knew all along. Like, what is that hypothetical? I can't even imagine it. I cannot imagine it.

Does Luca Dongeon show up to camp next to your 400 pounds, smoking a hookah? And then the Mavs make a run to the finals again without him. Like, that ain't happening. That ain't happening. I do not see any way that this works out in their favor. I cannot see it. right now.

Was it the 45 points after the guy was bawling? It was the 31 points, dude. Forget the 45. It was that first half. With the guy is literally breaking down on the bench and then comes down and scores 30. Was that the moment where you're like, you know what? I don't think this is going to work out for the mammary.

Not only that is the Lakers clearly, because one thing I have appreciated is there's certain, there are certain nights where they just decide to play. defense. And the Lakers clearly, they knew some of Anthony Davis's weaknesses, and they were just like, we're going to double him. And we're just, and he's just going to completely fall apart. So not only is Luca got 31,

Anthony Davis just looks like he doesn't even know what to do with the basketball in his hands. It's just a mess, an absolute mess. This is going to be an unbelievable weekend ahead. And by the time we speak the next time, we're going to have the play-in set and the majority of the playoffs

set. And the Grizzlies are going to be a part of it, my man. I mean, there's a chance there are not, but it looks, it's trending like the Grizzlies are going to be in one of those games. I have done, I can actually say I have covered a play in game before.

I've watched two, because they won. They beat the Warriors, right? Ended the Warrior season. Yeah. On their home court, the great forgotten moment in play in history.

also it is it is great forgotten the great forgotten moment and then they beat the San Antonio Spurs they beat the San Antonio Spurs undefeated play in history for the I think they are undefeated and play in history The problem now is that they give up 150 points to teams

so I don't know if that's going to be able to hold because I'm told that if you play in the play and you actually have to play against somebody that has a pulse. And with the way they have performed against anybody with a pulse over the course of the past six weeks, it seems far-fetched to believe that they would be able to... I mean, you're going to have to score 130, I guess. You might be able to hold somebody to 129.

I'd say the 8-seed is just you're... You are just lamps to the slaughter. But the 7-Ced, you know, I can see the Rockets. you know, I could see him faltering a little bit with their lack of playoff experience, but I think more importantly, that was an interesting one this weekend. If you are the Rockets and you're locked in, I wondered about this. They've got the, no, the Lakers and the Nuggets. The Lakers and the things.

And this is one of the things I thought about, right? It's almost impossible for any of these teams to jockey for a position. But if you are the Rockets, let's just say, you say, you know what, we want to get to the playoffs healthy. We don't care who our opponent is, whatever. We can't worry about the second round. But if you could knock the Lakers down and let Oklahoma City deal with them in the second round, it would behoothe you to win that game, to not go all out because you're locked in, because you would be doing it going, the farther we can knock.

them down, then Oklahoma City would have to deal with them if we're able to win our first round series. Because now we're playing the winner of somebody else that is much more manageable than L.A. I don't think it would be crazy to try to get away from L.A. So all I'm saying is the Rockets don't have some kind of massive reason to play this out in a hard way, unless, of course, you were like, hey, man, if we can pop them down to four and somebody can jump them, then Oklahoma City's deal. dealing with them when we get to the next.

Then you're really, you're, I got it. Then you're rooting for the trailblazers just to beat them on the final, them to lose to the trailblazers for them to go down to four, which is just not happening. They just have to beat the trailblazers. They need one more win to be the three. But this game tonight reminds me of last night's game between the Knicks and the Pistons. So every once in a while, I go to Queens and I watch the U.S.

Open, right? In tennis. And before, one of the things that blew my mind is before they play each other, they like warm up with each other. The tennis players. Okay. You know, they hit it back and forth. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's just weird. And that's what I felt like the Pistons Knicks game was. It was just kind of like, yeah, we're hitting the ball back and forth, but we're not really trying and we don't want to show you too much. And I feel like the Rockets Lakers game is going to be a little bit like that. Because if the Rockets were truly like, oh, maybe we can knock them down a peg, let's throw the kitchen sink at this one. I just don't think they want to do that because of a potential second round matchup.

So it is going to be like the tennis players. warming up before the match starts. It's going to be a little hitting the ball back and forth. We don't want to show too much. Like the Knicks and Pistons game last night. And the other thing is most of these teams don't chalky because you never know the way it's going to play out, right? Yeah, it could turn, like you do that.

And then next thing you know, not only is Jamal Murray back, but Jamal Murray is completely healthy and awesome. And LeBron turned their ankle. And it's like, wait, what? What did we just do? Like, you know, you don't know, you don't know over the course of these next, you know, six weeks, how this stuff's going to play out.

And so sometimes jockeying for any kind of matchup can be a fool's errand, unless you're doing it in the immediate. If the Bucks sat Janus for the next two games against the Pistons and ended up as the six to play the Knicks, that would guarantee a Knicks series victory. It would just guarantee it. You know, I can't see it. I can't see it happening. But it's going to be a really fun weekend. And I'm going to have to explain to my wife why. I'm not parenting any of the children on Sunday

because there's too many NBA games for me to watch. I call it work. I have to work. Is everything with the baby good? Yeah, man. Everything is to be with the baby, you know? Once you're the number four, right? Yeah, but it's just like you forget,

I forget that they don't, they don't respect daytime and nighttime. You know what I mean? I really want this young child to respect. Respect the sun is out during the day. That's when we are awake. And when the sun is gone and it's dark out. that is when we sleep.

And I've been trying to explain this to the two-week-old, but it's just not, I'm not getting my message across. I've lost the locker room. I've lost the locker room in my house. I think I'm about to get fired. You're Michael Malone. But don't forget, the Chris Vernon Show, Masters Updates. Oh, no.

Go out of your way for that. You get one more. It is one of my favorite pieces of sports media content. And it is honestly the thing that made me fall in love with you years ago. And literally, I think I texted Bill and I was like, I need Chris Vernon's contact information. That's what I texted him. And they sent me your contact information. We started texting because I was just so enamored with the Chris Vernon Show Masters updates.

I do remember back in the day, the first thing you ever sent me was, hey man, this is Jacoby. I just have one question. And then you like didn't tell me the question. And finally I was like, what's the question? And you just typed in all caps. What's going on in Augusta? go town in Augusta. Come on, man. That's how

the friendship began. Thank you to our executive producer, Jesse Lopez, as always, and Jacoby. I'll talk to you next week. Must be 21 and over in present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino, or 18 over and present in D.C. You got a gambling problem?

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