The Mismatch - Do the Heat Need to be Fixed? Plus, Doc’s Debut, Knicks Without Randle, and Yet Another 70-Point Performance

Episode Date: January 30, 2024

Verno and KOC discuss Doc Rivers’s debut coaching the Bucks, explain why Paolo Banchero will eventually be a top-five player in the league, as well as the Timberwolves' impressive win over the Thunder (03:24). As the Heat losing streak hits seven, the guys debate whether another move is inevitable, and discuss what Julius Randle’s injury means for the Knicks (19:50). Also, are the Cavs really starting to turn the corner? After Luka Doncic scored 73 points over the weekend, the guys debate if the high scoring offenses from the modern NBA are good or bad for the future of the league (41:08). Got a question for Verno and KOC? Send them an email at [e-mail]! Or you can send the guys a tweet @ChrisVernonShow and @KevinOConnorNBA! The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out http://theringer.com/RG to find out more, or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up everybody? It's Austin Rivers from Offguard, and I've got some exciting news. Offguard hosted by me and my guide, Pasha Gigi, is officially moving to our own podcast feed. We are now dropping two shows every week. Me and Pasha go way back and talk so much hoops already that we figured it was time to fire up the mics and let you in on these conversations. Every week, Pasha and myself will hit on the biggest stories happening around the league. Tap into the show twice a week on our new Offguard feed on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. Welcome to The Mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon and joining me as he does every Monday night from Theringer.com is Kevin O'Connor,

aka Kevin O'Bomber, Kevin O'Colk, Kevin O'Colmter, Kevin O'Brien, Kevin O'Brien, Kevin O'Feele. How are you doing tonight, man? What's up? I'm great. I am recording late in downtown Memphis as I went to the Grizzlies Kings. We are not going to get in depth on that one. but I will say that I did have a

Sabonis really really beat up on your team didn't he? Yeah, it was a at one point the Memphis Grizzlies had 18 rebounds

and DeMontas Savonis had 17 rebounds. That's true. Half time. At halftime he had 17 rebounds and the opposing team had 18 rebounds. It's crazy.

Anyways, the reason I'm bringing this up is because unbelievable mismatch moment tonight at the game. Of all things. Was there a Kings fan there? Was there a Kings fan who called me out? Oh my goodness.

There was not a Kings fan that called you out. Oh. There was a Kings fan of which both of us are a huge fan of and he happened to be in town, brought his mom in town and they were at the game tonight, came and found me. The absolutely unbelievable

dissect podcast on the ringer network and Spotify Cole Kushner was in town for the game that's awesome I had never we have communicated many times

over the years he's been a long time mismatch listener I've been a long time dissect listener and since before he was with the ringer and Spotify yeah I had no idea

I had no idea he even knew who we were oh yeah He's great. The radio head series that he did for the album in Rainbows is tremendous. Yeah. Well,

the way me and all my buddies originally found him was my beautiful dark twisted fantasy, the one that he did about the Kanye album. And anyways, I had never met legendary. I had never met

Cole Cusha in person. And so in what was, you know, the Grizzles had like eight guys. They were all hustle players. But that was a big, bright spot and I was super glad that I got to meet him in town for the game. Now, there was a bunch of stuff. Yeah, it was super cool. A bunch of stuff that went on around the NBA tonight. So let's

just go to that first. A possible NBA finals preview with the Nuggets and the Bucks. That was, those were my finals picks. We're the Nuggets and the Bucks. It's great to see everybody playing in that one in Denver. Nice for Yannis to play, uh, considering Joel and V did not over the weekend. And we'll get to that a little bit later. But this game went down to the end, fourth quarter. And it's like, I think Doc's just got some figuring out to do. There's a couple of things, you know, you see,

and we saw the Nuggets do this a couple weeks ago when they played against the Celtics. Like we pay attention to these super high leverage games when they play. And it's same old, same old. You know what it's coming. You know what's coming at you. It's Yokeach and Murray, and now you're dealing with it. And they're going to play off of that. There's going to be guys slip into the basket.

There's going to be Murray pulling up for shots. There's going to be Yonk. And that's what I feel like the bucks, they've got some figuring out to do because it's not nearly as defined as simple. Now, that is, of course, because they have not been through a million wars together. They haven't been through playoff series together. And so that stuff develops over. years and years of doing it, but they do have to figure out kind of what they're going to.

And the other thing is they've got to find a defensive guard that they could put alongside Dane, in my opinion. Because the hiding Beasley thing, you know, that's fine. But I can just see that, I can see that becoming a glaring weak spot. You know, they've got one spot to fill. The other four is going to be fine. But they got one spot to fill. And you could see even down the stretch, some of the defensive communication stuff still real clunky.

And, you know, there's no question Doc will improve that team. He's been very good at getting teams to play defense over his tenure, the majority of his tenure, whether he's with the Clippers or the Celtics or whoever it may be, Sixers. He had top 10 defenses. I don't know if he'll be able to make this one into a top 10, but it'll certainly improve from what they are. but you saw when it's like, okay, now it's you run a play, we run a play. It's a little bit smoother on the Denver side. That's kind of what I was left with thinking.

Yeah, I mean, I think like the Beasley thing, that is the same as it ever was with them. Like they need to upgrade Malik Beasley. Yes, he's been a lights out shooter for them this season, but you can't survive defensively with Malik Beasley and Damien Lillard as your back court. You need to find an upgrade there, whether that comes internally with one of the younger guys, Like Andre Jackson or Jay Crowder manages to drink from the fountain of youth and return closer to prime levels. But ultimately, it probably comes from a trade, which is why, as unrealistic as it is, you got Chris Haynes reporting that the bugs have interest in DeJante Murray.

Because in theory, Marie could tap back into his, you know, more prime version of himself in a winning situation and offer that type of defense and shot creation next to Damien lowered in the backcourt. But I do think, you know, for the first game of the Dark Rivers era in Milwaukee, it's like just game one, I thought, you know, he changed some of the rotations. Dame came out early in the first quarter, got a breather instead of playing the entire first quarter. Some differences there. I mean, like, it's tough to read into just one game of defensive game plans, a handful of possessions. But it did seem like they were being a little bit.

They were sagging off some of the weaker nuggets shooters more like, past Bucks teams did more so than some of the Adrian Griffin Bucks teams did earlier this season where they're aggressive up on the three point line against everybody. So just game one, some minor differences. And it's in Denver. I mean, right? It's in Denver. They were in it until the end. And I don't think whatever Doc's able to do with that team, this is going to be post-all-star

stuff. We're going to find out what they really look like. It's going to take time for anything to be implemented and really take hold. It's impossible, really. Like there's so little practice time. What can you really do besides minor stuff? That's right. Try to install what you can install. A couple other things that took place tonight.

Unbelievable Mavs magic game that came down to the very end. Powell Bank Hero had an unbelievable missed free throw at the end that gave them a chance. And Franz Wagner missed one at the buzzer. But the Mavs came down from 16 and won that game. But the reason I'm mentioning this is not to get in depth on that game because neither of us saw it in its entirety. it's that I did see the magic since we last spoke in person. And you know I love this team, this magic team. I walked out of that arena.

Joe Ingalls missed a three at the buzzer and Memphis won the game. But I walked out of the arena, I think of two things. First one was, there's no doubt in my mind that Bancares is going to be one of the five to ten best players in the league. And he's going to be one of those first. Wow. Yes. Yes.

I, he's, Kevin, he is absolutely awesome already for his age. I didn't see some vintage Bancaro performance either. But just watching him out there, I'm like, brother, when he gets it all figured out, this is a problem because the size, the skill and the tenacity to go along with it, he's got all the goods to be one of the absolute best players in the entire NBA. That's what I thought when I saw. Very rarely have I walked out of an arena and thought, whoa, now. Like, obviously it happened with Wendy after I saw him.

I'm like, geez, a wheeze. Imagine what this guy is going to look like at 25. But that's the feeling I had when I walked out. I'm like, what is this guy going to look like when it's, you know, the age that most guys are winning at 25, 26, 27, when he gets to 27. when he gets to 27-28, oh, there's no question in my mind. If he stays uninjured,

by the time he's 27-28, Ben-Caro is going to be one of the best five to ten players in the league, for sure. Everything you just described, Chris, is why I put Ben-Carrot number one in his draft class. Tough year. Jabari-Smith, a lot of people had him. Chet Holmgren, a lot of people had him.

But with Ben-Carrou, it's exactly what you said. Six-foot-10 with, like, guard like quickness and fluidity and side to side lateral ability just to move and change positions with a ball in his hands the passing feel he doesn't even have currently with the state of this magic roster that you know that two-man guy like now barns has quickly in toronto murray and yokitch in denver dame and yannis and milwaukee what happens when paolo ban caro at six foot 10 gets paired with a 6-4, 6-foot-5 sharp-shooting guard who can handle the ball and run two-man handoffs and pick and rolls.

They just need a couple of guards. They just need a couple of guards because he does what he does without them being, you don't have to honor them shooting. They're the worst three-point shooting team in the world. They can't hit any. They shoot like 30% from three. It's crazy. Like you get them some spacing and you get them.

them some guys that can just, you know, you don't, it doesn't even have to be guys. Like, you know, I texted you over the weekend. I'm like, even a guy like a Malcolm Brogden, just a standstill. Hey, I can throw it to you and you could knock down an open three for me, right? You could kind of organize me because they could run so much of the offense through Franz and Bencaro. But look, they've been really, really struggling. They need to get them some guys that can stretch that floor out. But, and I know, you know, everybody, always wants to win right now. And I hope they can get it back together and be able to be a playoff team. We have lamented the fact that we want more new teams, fun teams to be involved

and young guys to be able to take their lumps. But all I will say is it's going to be like, it's a long-term thing. And I think you do have to just enjoy the fact, like, hopefully you could have a good record this year, hopefully you can get to the playoffs. But man, if I'm an Orlando though, Fian, I am just absolutely over the moon about this guy because he is special, special, special, special. Yeah, for sure. And I mean, I think with them, it's the type of thing where Ben Carrow, he's doing this despite the fact that he's not a knockdown or even a plus shooter yet. He's an average, a below average shooter. Franz Wagner, even though Franz Wagner's still a guy hitting well over 80% of his free throws. He's at 85% again this year. He's still a 30% shooter from.

three. Once Wagner becomes, you would hope, at some point, a 38, 39 percent three-point shooter as he extends his range and it matches his free throw production. And hopefully at some point, Ben-Caro is better from the perimeter. I mean, like, can we talk about the need for a guard, right? And parent, like, but you do have Jalen Suggs. You do have Anthony Black. This is kind of a by-committee situation. It's almost not even a ball handling guard you need. It's more just a shooting guard that you need to manifest. It's because, because you're not even a by-comity situation. It's because you do have some of those smaller handlers to pair with them. It's just you need that knockdown shooting presence.

And maybe it'll end up being Jet Howard, who has had some good moments in the G League this year. Maybe it'll end up being him, but that could take a while. If you give them some space, though, if you give them some space, Katie bar the door, because he has got that. Yeah. Just get to the basket to him. Boy, special players.

I do want to mention that because I didn't get to see him since we last spoke. Look, I watched him in a loss and walked out of the arena like, Jesus, this guy is going to be something else for a long time in this league. It wasn't even one of his better games in the season, not even close. No, not even close. He had, I think he had 35 tonight in that Dallas game. Yes. But that speaks to it.

It's like this month he's averaging like 25 points, six assists, six rebounds. It's big time numbers, you know, just raw box score stuff. His efficiency is up and down. But his efficiency should improve as the roster around. him fits his needs to optimize his production as a player. Also, it's hard to beat Luca when he's scoring in the 40s. At least it's not the 70s, though. Understood.

A couple other things we've got to mention. Anthony Edwards, hilarious after the game against the Thunder, say, I'll take the fine. And then he said, if you see the video going around where he's slapping high fives with Gobert and he says, cheating ass reps. Cheating ass reps. That was a good moment But that's a good win for the T-Wolves Against the Thunder

I saw somebody post a stat That the Thunder Had this crazy-ass record It's like 30 and 1 or something When they're leading going into the fourth quarter But now they're 30 and 2 And both losses are to the wolves And so it's just something to keep in mind

Because you never know the way This stuff is all going to play out We may very well see those teams match up when it comes playoff time. But I do think the wolves are a bit of a problem. Obviously, they need to get Conley back, and a lot's got to rest on how they need to make sure he's got a healthy hamstring. It can make it through the long-term playoff run that they hope they have.

But, boy, it's size on size, on size. And that's the thing. Some of these teams that are either really physical or have a lot of size are kind of a thunder problem. And that's where when we get into the playoffs, it's like you might be able to, you might be able to overcome it some, but overcoming it to win four out of seven games is an interesting one. So I know you have been a proponent of the Thunder finding, maybe some more size to go along with Chet.

Down there, it'll be very fascinating to see over the next two weeks if they go for it and kind of where they view themselves in their timeline. Yeah, I mean, I think with Oklahoma City, it's the type of thing, Chris, like, they're young, and we're seeing some of the ups and downs with them over the course of the season. And Minnesota has a lot more experience on their side of things. Like, the defense tonight from Minnesota is extraordinary. Like, Oklahoma City came out of the gates fast in that game. I was watching the start of the game. They had, like, I think, 20, 20 points over the first five, six minutes, something like maybe in the first four minutes, something like that.

and they finish with 101. So Minnesota allows 81 points over the final 40-ish minutes of the game. Like, they're just clamping down. There is a possession with, you know, 30 seconds left in the game where Jada McDaniels feels like he's defending three guys at once. He's like shading towards SGA. He's closing out on Dord. He's helping on the corner all at one time. And like you said, with Minnesota's size, it just feels like they're everywhere all at once.

And like, we know their defense is done. I thought their offense was very good down the stretch despite not having Mike Conley. They were calling plays, getting good looks, creating quality shots. And I mean, like doing that against Oklahoma City, even though they're young, like I think on their home court, that's a very impressive win for the Timberwolves. And I think that's a sign of developments with what we saw from them with their offense down the stretch of that game. And hopefully it sustains because obviously they've, you know, fell into some real ruts in fourth quarters, especially like, late in games of their offense over the course in season. But the truth is, is both

Minnesota and Oklahoma City, they're in different trajectories and different timelines and places with where they are right now, but both of them in their own ways, could use some slight upgrades. We talked about Minnesota needing a better backup point guard than Conley, and with

Oklahoma City need more size. It's not just backup. It's insurance. Like, you need insurance. You get this hamstring thing now, and it's like, yeah. Yeah. That's a lot. That's a lot of hopes riding on a guy that's in, you know, 15 plus years in the league. It's tough.

He's just so old, man. And he said it's like such a long injury history. He's too old. It's one of my favorite guys in the world. But, yeah, you got to have insurance for that. Yeah, you've got to, man. I mean, I think for Minnesota, you don't have a lot of assets to do it. But, I mean, how many times that we said Tyas Jones.

the guy to try to go out and get. I know. He is the one. Fandall is putting the ball in your court for the rest of the NBA season because right now new customers get $200 and bonus bets with any winning

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Fandul, official sportsbook partner of the NBA. It must be 21 plus and present in select states. Gambling problem, call 100 a gambler or visit the ringer.com slash RG. $10 first deposit required. Bonus issued as an unlawful drawable bonus bets that expire seven days after receipts. See terms at sportsbook.fandle.com. All right. Let me ask you about a couple different teams.

This is really testing me, especially after our last episode, where I had watched the heat and I'm like, you know what, I'm not falling for this crap. We know it doesn't even matter to them what seed they get, whatever. Like they stunk again. They can't win now. And I'm like, okay, at what point am I going to actually be like, you know, is this okay? And I don't know how the hell they got rid of Kyle Lowry and got a worse shooter. But Terry Rozier can't hit shit. Well, tonight he did.

Tonight he was four of six tonight. Oh, he did. He was four of six tonight, yes. Oh, congratulations to him. All right. I mean, it's been a mess, though. It's been a mess. What are they sick? Is that six in a row?

Well, prior to this game with the heat, he was one of five, one of four, oh of two from three. So this was his first good shooting performance with Miami, his first good overall game with Miami. But I do think. And they got blasted. And yeah, they got destroyed by, you know, by. Phoenix. Granted, like Miami makes it go late. They lose by 13 because when everybody reserves are being late, they close. It doesn't matter. But they got smoked. I think Miami right now, one of two things need to happen. The hero, Rosier, backcourt either needs to be split up with

one of them going to the bench being like a super six man or another move needs to be made possibly moving Tyler Hero being like a good young trade chip possibly to some teams around the league but we just saw months ago when they were trying to go get Damien Lillard not a lot of teams wanted Hero but I do think Heroes made some progress over the course

of the season where perhaps at this time of the year more teams could have some interest to find a player who fits better. Teams are stupid teams are stupid if they don't want him because here's the thing. The guy could shoot the ball. He could shoot the ball at all these teams

when you get down to the playoffs, they all want shooting. They all need spacing for their stars so that they can work in space. And so hero to me is an extremely valuable asset. Hell, you know how good he'd be on that team we just talked about a couple minutes ago? He'd be great for Orlando. Orlando Magic. Oh, he'd be great for them. Great for them to have.

Like a guy that you just need, there's so many teams. you watch where it's like, man, they just need some guys to space out the floor because they've got some special individual talent that could beat guys one-on-one. It's just you can dedicate two to them. You can make them see two guys all the time. Heroes are those kind of guys are the types that, you know, they are honored. You have to stay out there and guard them. And that is a, I don't give a damn what a guy's individual stats are. That is, it's the gravity of And so, you know, I would, I would think he is a great asset for a team that he could really move the needle for somebody if it's not the perfect fit what they have because everybody needs spacing. And when it comes playoff time, everybody needs guys that can make shots.

How much with Miami, like Jimmy Butler after the game, he just said like, we're not guarding anybody. And that's the reason why we're losing games, right? Like, he just says, we're not guarding anybody. And that's true. Like you look at the amount of points they've given up over this seven game losing streak in order. 121 to the Raptors, 109 to the Hawks, 105 to the Magic, 105 to the Grizzlies. That's not bad with some of those. But then 143 to the Celtics, 125 to the Knicks, 118 to the Sons.

With them, how much of this do you think is, this relates to, again, Roseer, Hero, Duncan Robinson. and there's a lot of perimeter guys on that team who aren't stoppers. They don't really have that on their team right now. And obviously they're missing some guys. Richard Chen, Hakez, they're missing some guys. But those guys aren't turning you from having a bunch of turnstiles on the perimeter to a bunch of stoppers. This is where it comes back to, does Miami need to make one more deal to really round this out and to find better balance? Like have they gone too far without perimeter defense after?

some of their losses this off season. Seems like it. But then there's another part of me that goes, all right, they just don't give the crap and they will. Yeah, I know. Yeah. It's hard to know because, like, it's hard to bet against Miami.

I know. Because we've seen this play out before. I know. They look pitiful last year. And then as soon as it comes time for it to matter, they're clamping down on everybody and they're making life hell for you. And they've got a great coach that game plans against you, takes away what you want to do.

And next thing you know, Caleb Martin's knocking down every corner three takes. It's like, okay, this is stupid. Yeah. Right. You mentioned one of the teams that put up a big number against them was the New York Knicks. Now, that is something we do have to believe in. This is crazy because they're now without Randall for an extended amount of time. And nobody's got the elbow thing.

But they're like, what, 14 and 2 now, I think, since the OG deal. And I think they're 12 and one with both OG and Brunson in the lineup. They want to get Charlotte tonight. And now they've got, and those, you know, they got wins. They beat the Nuggets by 38, which we had mentioned. Wolf, Sixers, Heat, like, got really good wins. And they now are going to be without another guy in Randall for an extended amount of time. But they got a six-game homestand coming up.

And it's going to be very fascinating to see how they kind of navigate through the life without Randall. And if it even matters, because I'm just, I'm just a believer. I'm a believer. It's seven in a row now. So they've won seven in a row and the heat have lost seven in a row. But they won seven to a row after this win over Charlotte. Now they're about to have a six game homestand. And you'd imagine they'll probably have a pretty good record in that.

And so this is, it's something to monitor because you always got to pay it. attention to these teams that, like, their record is not indicative of what they are now. You know, we talk about this all the time with the Clippers, right? I don't care what their total record is. I've seen the Clippers, and I know they lost tonight, but they're like 27 and seven since after those first five games of Hardin. Like, that's, it's a radically different, I guess 27 and 8 now after they lost the night. That's a radically different team than you know, what would you be your normal four or five seed in the Western Conference? And the Knicks, do you think it's going to be a tough go without Randall?

Or do you think the results are just going to keep on coming? I mean, I think with them it's going to be, I'm not even sure it's about the results in a sense that it's about finding out what you have with precious Achua and finding out like what you have with some of these other guys in the rotation. Like, yes, it hurts not to have Randall on the Knights that he. he's on. They probably might drop some games because of that, but I think the overall aggregate benefit could be finding out what happens when a chew is getting that usage. It's two plus games in a row now of him getting 30 minutes.

I think some of these Nick's young guys, this A, shows that these guys are either keepers for you or B, could dramatically raise their trade value because a chew is a guy that people around the league have liked for a long time. Well, who's the one that just went on? It was Dante that went off, right? It's like,

it wasn't it, DiVicenzo? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think, yeah, so like all, all those, all those touches that Randall normally gets now

trickle to DeVanzo. It goes to a chew-up, like on transition operas, Josh Hart, or even guys like Miles McBride, who's been getting regular bench minutes for them. And like, I mean,

I saw tonight, like, I love Deuce McBride. I've loved that guy for a long time, but like tonight, I wasn't watching the game live in the fourth quarter when the Knicks were up 30, but I saw it retweeted on my timeline.

It was like this play where he just like, he's like just mirroring Caleb Martin on defense, just bearing every single movement just rips the ball out of his hands, starts a transition opportunity, and he ends up hitting a three on the break. He gets rewarded for his defensive effort with a 30 point lead. And it was just a cool, like, typical, typical Deuce McBride, just locking down on defense, hitting big shots. I just love that, dude. He's such a fun bench player, and it's cool to see him finally rewarded with all this

playing time after the quickly trained for OG and Anobi. It's just great because I love that dude. Well, and they gave him a contract. Isn't he the one that walked into the restaurant of Vegas with his jersey on? That was the guy. Yeah, that was him. Okay, I thought that I remember the name. He walked into Momofuku with his Summer League jersey on.

Absolutely true. Yeah, he walked into a moment. That's outrageous. I know. It was so cool. It's an outrageous move. I know. I got a picture somewhere in my phone. It's not great quality.

It's like darker in that restaurant. But yeah, that was awesome. That was such a cool moment. Yeah, he's great. That's crazy. That Knicks team's awesome to watch. Aren't they just so fun? They have so many likable players.

So look, and there's a couple Easter conference teams like this that are like, you know, on one hand we're sitting there going, all right, are we going to believe that the heat are really this rat team like they've been playing for seven straight games or are we just not going to get fooled by this on the other hand i swear it's every night i'm looking at the results and i'm like okay so like nobody's beating the clippers and now the calves get mowbby back and beat the clippers and it's like the calves i i was reading uh schumann's uh little uh recap of the you know his power

rankings thing he had a stand in there that the calves in the absence of the of Mowgli and Garland that their starting lineup with swapped out Garland and Mowgli for Isaac Okoro and Dean Wade has the second best net rating of any lineup that's played over 200 minutes.

It's like plus 18.6. I was like, what the hell? Like, we know Cleave was like, look, I know I'm always been one of those like, hey, you got to have stars and role players and it's got to balance out. Guys have to do the dirty work and guys have to be able to, you know, be able to play without the basketball. And it's not all about how many points per game you get and like, you got to balance this stuff out.

But that is just so extreme. In what world would you have ever said, hey, you can be able to swap out Darius Garland and Heaven Moble, two of the bright young stars in the league for Isaac Acoro and D.E. Wade and end up having one of the best plus minuses in the entire NBA. It's just crazy. And, you know, while the Clippers were 13 and 2 since Christmas going into this game tonight. So you got to give the Cavs a lot of credit. And by the way, the Clippers just killed the Celtics over the weekend.

Now they turn around and they lose to the Cavs. Like, I don't know. They got Moby back tonight. Obviously, you're going to have to get Garland back in the mix. I'm starting to become a kev's believer kev like this is just too it's it's happening too often and they're beating like you beat the clippers like who do i want you to beat for me to believe yeah i mean i think it's pretty much exactly as we talked about on last week's episode uh we'll see what happens when mowbly and garland are both back and how that affects the production of the team it's possible that they just found themselves it happened to happen while they were gone right and they can still continue on this same Hot streak, whence they're both back. But, you know,

I mean, we'll see Garland hopefully can get back soon. Mowgli, this is a game I only kind of kept an eye on time. I didn't, I can't speak on,

you know, the game itself. I was watching other games, but just generally, I look forward to seeing how these guys develop over the course of season with Mowbly's versatility.

Does he help their, does he further improve their defense without hurting the offense with the way they've been producing? And same with Garland being paired with, Mitchell were then both being smaller guards. How much does that affect the defense?

The pros outweigh the cons with how they both can assist in their respective ways. Garland being such a good shooter, Mole being such a good defender. How does that balance work out? Because the team feels very balanced without those guys. Ben Simmons came back and the net scored 147 because of it. And then after they asked them about it, you know, as soon as you came in the game, there was a fast break. and he said something like,

every time I touch the ball, it's a fast break. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go, Ben Simmons. Love the confidence. He was like a triple double.

I saw his box score. I know, it's pretty cool. I looked to go back and watch that one. 18 points. He had 10 points, 11 assists, eight rebounds,

zero turnovers. Pretty impressive. Turnup, Ben Simmons. Well, I know. The highlights were fun to watch. I look forward to seeing more of the game, how he looked defensively. all that. Utah is a weird

team on the other side of that. They oscillate between playing really well. No, that's it. But that's a team right now, and you see this with a lot of teams around the league. When you've got four or five guys all

knowing I might get traded, it's very tough at this time of year. You can see it. You know, Atlanta's going through it. Like these guys all are on hoops type every morning. agents talking to them. There's like, I mean,

friends texting them. Everybody. It comes from everywhere. Yeah, we're in frenzy season. You're just not going to know. You're going to see some weird stuff and you're going to see some weird outcomes. And you guys see some weird performances and some weird lineups and guys sitting out. There's just so much to read into it.

But more importantly, there's all these teams that have groups of players that, you know, It's just odd to have four or five guys. You know, you're worried about what you're going to do with your house. You're worried about if you're going to have to move. You're worried about where you're going to go. Like, they know. I was even talking to somebody with the Kings tonight and said they're, you know, they've gotten on this win streak, whatever, but they got three or four stressed out guys all the time.

All the time. Because they don't know if it's them or not, right? Might be them. Might be them going to have a new home in two weeks. And we're just kind of in that. it really gets to them, you know, about two weeks in. And then after the trade deadline, everybody kind of cools out, right? And then you can kind of hit your stride and decide you're going to be there.

But for these, you know, two weeks, it's tough because they all, they all read all the same crap we do. You know, like, oh, I might get traded. Oh, they're looking to upgrade me. They're looking to upgrade me. Like, imagine you're sitting there's a guy. You're like reading there. Like, damn, man. They're looking to upgrade Kevin Hurter.

You're like, geez. It hurts. Or Davion Mitchell or whatever, right? Whoever it may be. And so I think you're probably going to see that with, you can probably see some weird ones with a couple of different teams. We've gone a long time without mentioning the fact that I said there's no way somebody else is going to score 70 right.

And I believe I have. I said I'd puke if they did. And then we couldn't even make it to the next episode before someone scored 70. I guess we did make it to Thursday because M.B. did it on Monday, right? So we did make it to last Thursday night. But then over the weekend, Luca Dodger's had 73. And I give up. I give up.

I am of the opinion that somebody could get 100 at this point. Like, what the hell? Why not? Why not? Somebody break Will to record. Just go ahead and do it. It's so funny how much history repeated you're like years ago.

You don't see a lot of 50s. We can go back and look. That was, look, I remember it was Blake Griffin playing for Detroit. And it was like in October or early November. I was like, you don't see a lot of 50s.

And then it was just a frigging barrage of 50s. So now I say, a long time, Chris. I know. I know. Yeah, Blake Griffin's not even in the league anymore. And now I say, yeah, you don't see the last 70s. And we even went through like the historical point of view. Only this many guys have done it. Only this many times in history. It's happened. And of course, Luca within a couple of days does it. And so who knows. Kind of crazy. He did it against Atlanta, too. In Atlanta, the team that's not.

That crazy. They suck. I know, but the team that traded him on draft night, the team that is at the crossroads, with Murray potentially being on the move, Trey, who could be traded this summer. I think it's just fascinating that happens in Atlanta. Of all places,

Luca does that. Of all teams. Shouts to Boosie. I know you've got to be a huge Boosie badass fan, the rapper. He was on the front row. I don't even know who he is. He was,

he's on the front row in Atlanta. And he got the jersey. He had asked him preemptively, can I have your jersey after the game? I collect the jerseys. Wow. And Luca, true to his word, Boosey badass has the friggin' 73 point Luca Donchard's jersey.

Yeah, Boosie, wipe me down. All right, Chris. Way over your head. Do you think we see an NBA player score 81 or more this season? You want me to make it happen? There's no way someone will score. Or, no, no, let me rephrase it. Kevin?

Look, all right, I know I've said you don't see a lot of 70s, but you never see 80. Never. Probably be by next episode, these idiots. Somebody guard somebody. It's embarrassing to give up friggin' 73 points. Give me a break. I mean, is anybody, forget, you know, whenever,

you get all these old heads and I get it. And they all bitch about, like, I know defense is played anymore and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. To me, it's not even about defense. Of course, the defense sucked. It's like, have some pride, bro. Have some pride. You're professional.

Nobody should be able to score 73 on you. Double the hell out of them. You know, get chippy with it. Like, come on. That's the thing. It's not the defense as much as the edge. Where is the edge? Where's the competition?

It's like, instead, these guys, you know, yeah, they let the guy score 73 and then why don't you get his fucking autograph after the game? It's crazy to me. There's no edge to them. They're not competitors. That's what it is. To me, much more than the NBA's outlawed defense and nobody. plays any defense anymore.

And, you know, I know people tired of the old heads saying that. To me, it's the edge. It's like the competition. Like, hey, man, have some pride about yourself. Not, not like being proud to be on the DVD or whatever. The NBA TV replay the next day. Whatever.

I know. That was old. That was old. All right. VH. Yeah, on the laser desk. I just want to be on the. the laser disc.

All right. I admit that sounded old. And I probably ruined everything by saying I don't want to sound old and then I said DVD. I grew up with DVDs, Kevin. Yeah. I still own them. I still have DVDs. I don't think I have a DVD player, but I still got DVD.

Oh, man. I mean, with defense, though, I do think we all. are at a point now where the Kirk Goldsbury book Sprawball from four, five, or six years ago, whenever it came out is starting to become a real topic of conversation. This is something people are beginning to really talk about. What do you do with rule changes to help defense? Because I agree with you, to your point, there needs to be more of an edge. And that game, it didn't feel like the Hawks were really trying to resist at times,

especially when Luca was getting rolling. And like, they weren't, they weren't trying to stop him from getting over 70 points by changing their defensive scheme. They were just like, okay, the game is over. We lost. That's what it felt like. Okay? I agree with you. But at the same time that the NBA is in a position now, how much do they feel that the lack of defense and the high scoring games were teams routinely scoring 130 or 140?

Is this good for the quality of the game? is this good for the growth of the game? Because in that Goldsbury book, sprawball from years ago, Kirk argued that it is not aesthetically pleasing to have driving kick, driving kick, driving kick, driving kick, all like similar types of results in a half-court offense. Teams do it a little bit differently. They do, but it is a lot of driving kick in the league right now.

So I just, what does Adam Silver in the NBA one think about this, I wonder? It can't. There are too many teams that play alike and there are teams that do it with much more talent than the other teams, right? But there are a lot. It's a very homogenous on a game-in-game out basis. It's someone that goes to games several times a week. That being said, I would be an absolute hypocrite if I didn't tell you. So I was at Grizzly's Magic the night of that game.

and as I saw he had 50 something or whatever it was in the third quarter, I pulled it up on my phone and I watched the rest of it. I had it there on the table with me. So I can't be a hypocrite. Yes, watching guys score 73 is something I will always turn on and yes, I love it.

So I could still lament the lack of competitiveness and the fact that we have outlawed goons completely, basically. Like there is nobody to go hard foul somebody and say like, hey, man, you ain't, you ain't making a mockery of us. This is bull, you know, like, but I do love watching guys be that individually brilliant. It's mega impressive. And it's hard to do, even though every time I say it's hard to do, it appears not hard to do. Yeah. I mean, look, it's a, it's a dilemma for the NBA because the league is more talented than it's

ever been, in my lifetime, at least. I don't think the league has ever had so much talent. And the way, the way, you know, efficiency has driven teams towards valuing layups, you know, free throws and three-pointers. And it has opened up the floor for these brilliant offensive talents to be the only player to really utilize the mid-range. That's right. The mid-range has been removed for role players. You don't see PJ Brown taking a 15-footer from the baseline. That was something role players did in the past. Now, Bobby Portis is spotting up in the corner for the bucks. They're emphasizing threes and layups and free throws. And that's what's all

led to where we are now in addition to the lack of the rule changes that have prevented defenders from maximizing what they were maybe in the 1990s before hand checking was taken away. Yeah. And it's not. It's tough, though. How much could rule changes really completely curtail what efficiency has led the league to be coming. How much would the league actually have to change things? And it's possible it could also have negative effects too, like removing the corner three, as some people talk about. What do you do with defense of three seconds?

There could be negative effects as well. So it's a difficult place for the NBA, but I would hope personally that they in some form use the G League for some of these dramatic, dramatic, you know, potential rules. changes. They haven't hesitated to use the G-L league as a playground before. I know there's risk there. Teams to use that for player development as well. You don't want to make it too different, but

I think they need to experiment just to see what it looks like, even if it's for a portion of the G-League season. For two months, these are the rules. I don't mind. Like, I think that because of the way the game is played, because of the level of talent, offenses are

better than ever. That's what I believe. I also think, to me, and it's not necessarily about defense as much as it is. It always just comes back to, as I said, with the competition thing. And that's, it's exactly why I was mad about the Embed thing. It's like, I just want guys to be competitors, man. Like, they want to get out there. They want to play.

They want to get, not get embarrassed. They want to not be, you know, smiling and trading jerseys. Like, we have come on here and lauded. Man, I love seeing. Chet and Wemby go after each other. I love seeing the Pacers and the bucks starting to hate each other. I love seeing the sons and the Mavs getting chippy right in the, like right when the game starts.

Like I love all this. And then like on the flip side, it's like watching guys just watch guys score 70 is lamer and shit to me. And then watching MBEs sit out on an ABC national televised game that everybody wants to watch. it's like, bro, like, to me, that's what it all comes back to. It's all like being a competitor, being a competitor. I could accept, man, these offenses are hard as hell to stop.

If you're getting paint touches and kickouts and guys can knock down shots, like I don't, I'm not going to, I'm not going to lament. I don't think there's no defense because I watch the playoffs every year. You watch the playoffs every year. When it gets to playoff basketball, we just watch. just watched Minnesota okay okay C tonight Chris it tightens up that game yeah yeah that's tightens up don't tell me there's not defense play I mean over the 82 game season yeah there's a lot of baloney that takes place well and this ultimately brings it back to how the games have to matter

more like right now like bulk bulk has always been the benefit for the NBA if every team plays 82 games at what point does bulk become detrimental compared to to events. That's what the NBA has tried to create with the in-season tournament. That's what they've tried to do with Rivals Week. I mean, like, it doesn't necessarily work when you still have so much bulk and that these games

aren't significantly more important. Right? So it's like Rivals Week with Sixers Nuggets on a Saturday night. And then NB. Just threw feces at it. Yes. That's what he did. And if that game but if that game actually mattered to the

fixers to the standings if there were significant and a significant impact to the standings, if you lose that game and it matters, he'd be playing. He'd be playing through the pain, right? He would have been, for sure, just like he would have if it were a playoff game, a game one, a game two, a game three in all likelihood. So what can the league do to make these games matter more? And that's complicated. You know, there's money involved, broadcast rights, the amount of games you can argue in the way.

I'm not going to do that, though. I can pay $50, $60 million a year. your play, bro. Play. I'm not. I shouldn't have to make that regular season game matter more to you. You know why it matters? Because I pay you $60 million. That's why it matters. Because I've got an arena of 20,000 people that spent a fortune to go here and park and buy $10 beers and buy the popcorn. That's why it matters. You can't just keep throwing feces at the fans. You can't.

Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. I mean, it's, you know, I just can't, I just, I cannot. You are, you know, you were sounding real Adam Silvery. Like, how can I make this matter more to you? Yeah, now, come on, Kev. No. No, because, because, because I'm solution-oriented here. They don't need to make it matter more.

Because, Chris, because I'm solution-oriented here and being realistic. If this is the situation is what it is with the players, what can you do to make it better? What can you do? Stop! Stop kissing their ass every two seconds. Okay, all right. So, okay, so here we're going. This is part of what I'm trying to get into here.

Is it about making your salary tied the games played? Is it something along those lines? They're trying to do that with the 65 game minimum right now where you're not eligible for certain awards is the actual real step making it. Well, if you're missing these games, you just don't get paid. Is that really what's necessary? It shouldn't be what's necessary. I just don't think it was for made men.

you know i know and so like so that's a made man so what i'm saying is exactly that he's already made is 200 million what difference does it make if you make 60 million or 30 million it doesn't really make a dramatic difference it doesn't your quality of life is so insignificantly different if you're missing those games you make players are willing tonight anthony edwards is like i'll i'm gonna pay the fine he doesn't care he's making tens of millions of dollars the slap on the wrist doesn't matter they establish the culture where Adam Silver, the NBA

didn't care, and so then the teams didn't care, and so then the players didn't care, and now they're trying to, look, the cat was not out of the bag, the cat was out of the bag, and it'd run 10 miles down the road. And now they're trying to run

down the road, it dragged the cat back. And it's going to take time, and they're just going to keep on having to like at some point, somebody's got to be like a hard ass about it. They're trying to find teams or whatever else. But I mean, shouts to Mike Malone, who came out

after the game is like, this should be an investigation. All right. So again, I bring it back, to my question though. Okay. So how are you going to reverse that? Like what exactly needs to be done? Because it's such a, it's such an issue. What do you do about it? You have to make it

so that the teams are on your side. meaning the NBA. The teams are on your side. Not looking out for themselves and just because the team supports the player. They support the organization supports the player. That's where this all got a ride. The organization is fine with doing it because that's what's been established.

You have to get it back in line to say, you're in charge here. And so now the team is responsible. for this. Because do you think anybody with the Sixers cares whether the guy plays or not? No. The whole thing is set up for them to all bow at the throne of M.B. And kiss his ass and pray he doesn't want to ask to get traded somewhere else. Like that was that.

That's the downside of the player empowerment. I am not against player empowerment. It's when this all happens. And it leads to the fact that who has power here now. And the fact is, if you're Adam Silver, you need to get it back to where the teams are on your side. He doesn't have the teams on his side on this. It's fine for him and Joe Dumars to say, hey, you know what? We've got a new plan.

It's play basketball regularly. That was basically like what they had to say. Like, what the F? Here, you know, every, what is it? Like, I can't even remember what their acronym was. I mean, it was outlandish. But it was basically the new plan of the league was to encourage players playing. They literally have a topic about player participation.

And so to me, that's the step, right? The step is to get those teams to understand. Like, hey, man, we need you on our side on this, that you need to be making sure these guys play. because teams are all scared of these guys. They're scared of the employees. They're scared of the employees. It's that, Chris, but it's also the fact that teams aren't incentivized to push those players to play because there's no difference between being the two-seed

and the four-seed other than a home court in the first round, which is a less significant difference than it may have been many years ago. So, like, teams, the organizations, this is, again, as I've been arguing about for years, why I think the standings need to matter more. There should be a difference for the Sixers in being the two-seed versus the four-seed. The heat shouldn't feel like Jimmy Butler can take 12 shots a game over the course of the season and just get in as the seven-seed

and it won't matter. They should feel like, oh, there's actually an advantage to being the three-seed. We can choose our first-round opponent, whatever it is, like something along those lines making the standings matter more. Just little, like all these little things over the course of the year, I would hope,

I would hope change the culture as my point. Well, now that's all you need to know. And this is how you know, like, that now, watch M. B.

He'll sit out. He'll keep sitting out. Now to make a point, like, hey, I didn't sit out just Denver. No, he'll sit out more too. And again,

is it because he's hurt? Or because now at this point, he can't very well come back and play in the game. Because then they're going to get fined a bunch of money. They're going to get fined a bunch of money. They're going to get fined. If he comes back in place, they're going to be like,

what the hell happened in that? But if he did out, so now it's cost another arena of fans that signed up and wanted to go watch him play in person. Because now they have to stick to their guns and act like he's hurt. It's crazy. It's crazy. You got a job to do with that stuff, especially with this whole,

and they must already have their TV contract done, though. They must. Because they gave Adam Silver a, to extend them, yeah, yeah. There's no way they don't have that done if they extended them all the way through the end of the decade. And good to him. I mean, I figure it's probably some kind of Amazon TNT ESPN deal. That's what I'd guess, right?

And he probably got a fortune for it more than what people expect it to be, considering viewership has been down. You know, he's a good business, man. There's no way around that. he's made money, but it is not been, fans have not been the priority. And they aren't. And that's what you need to get back. Truly want to grow this thing out and max it out.

You got to start caring about fans more. You should be able to buy tickets to a Saturday ABC Nugget Sixers game and be assured that a guy who's not on the injury report is going to play. Tim Bontemps literally, said going into it. I talked to him in the locker room. He's ready to go. Nick Nurse said he's ready to go.

It's like, oh, our training staff watched him in warm-ups and get out of here, bro. Come on. Now, I spent the whole season, laud and this guy talking about this historical season, talking about how it's going to be a shame if he doesn't get to 65, but he can't win the MVP because he's that unbelievable. Now I won't shed one single tier because that's that's embarrassing. That's embarrassing. On the 65 game thing, just one thought.

I don't think we touched this when we brought it up last week, but let's say the 65 game rule didn't exist, right? And this weren't even atop of conversation. And Embed finishes with 59 or 61 games. Would he really win MVP over somebody who has got 77 games or 75 games? If Yokic has that or Yonis or SGA. You know how many games Yokic is missed? You know, like three, four.

games something like that one one only one really one one one one i thought he had a hell of that only one man that's crazy one wow and i don't think he cares about anything no yokech cares but he plays every night oh you hadn't seen all them videos i love those videos i i guess it got on my algorithm where the guys bitching about he's like man i hate this dude and they show him like warming up and he's like basically like just kicking a ball at the rim and then he's like take BS hook shots like he's just not even warming up he's just screwing around he's like I hate this guy this guy doesn't even take he don't even warm up he just shows up shows up gives everybody buckets and goes home and then

watches like horse races on his phone for what it's worth kawai's only missed four games So it's not like we don't have certain players that are playing a lot. I mean, I do think it's been better overall this year. It's just that Embedd situation just makes it feel so much more massive. And I think the guy that nobody really talks about either is the amount of time that Kyrie Irving has missed. Kari has a sprained thumb and he's been out for seemingly forever with a sprained thumb. that guy misses a hell of a lot of time

anytime he's got an injury. At least LeBrona Curry played. Give them that. And they put on a hell of a show that made people forget about how disappointed they were in the first one, not materializing. And Curry showed a little muscles by ripping a jersey. Not easy to rip an NBA jersey.

Dude, that game, that Lakers Warriors game was one of the best games of the season. Oh, yeah. That was unbelievable. That game was unbelievable. So many big shots. LeBron and Steph going at it, toe to toe again. Just unbelievable performance by both of those guys.

And like you watch that game on Saturday night for the Lakers side of things and you're like, oh, wait a minute. Are they starting to figure some stuff out? Are they fining themselves? And then they lose tonight on Monday to the Rockets and they just get absolutely destroyed. And you get LeBron side-eye. You've got to go. You've got to go back and see this. Because I, somebody said it to me in the, I think it's in the first quarter, maybe

the second quarter, the Vanderbilt ejection. Yeah. So he flicked Dylan Brooks in the back of his head. Oh, yeah. That's what I got. He's hilarious. hilarious. All right.

When is, when is Ham going to start that lineup from last? year man. What is he going to do it? Let's take a time on. He's got his big three at Delo and and LeBron and AD been cooking recently. I don't know they took a hell to Houston. But what what's his thing for Torrean Prince? What is what is this? Like what's what does he continue to starting him for instead of Vanderbilt? He played he played that five man lineup for 19 minutes on Saturday night. The LeBron, Ad. Dilo Reeves, Vanderbilt lineup for 19 minutes on Saturday after they played a collective nine minutes over the entire regular season when that was the five that they used the second half last year to make the playoffs and go all the way to the

West finals after that game on Saturday, AD was asked about like, do you think this is going to be when you're going to start going back with that lineup? And AD's like, she, like he's like smirk and he can't like keep the smile. And he's like, that's a coach question. It's like very revealing. I think I think Ham has completely lost the Lakers locker room. He has lost the trust of that team. What? Because they know

because they know the answers they know the answers that can help from within and that he's not doing that regularly. All right. Here you go. It's going to do it for our show. Thank you to our executive producer Jesse Lopez as always. Kevin I'll talk to you on Thursday.

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