The Mismatch - Do the Wizards Have a Chance at the Playoffs? Plus: the Timberwolves’ Future, All-Star Reserves, and More

Episode Date: February 23, 2021

Verno and KOC are back this Tuesday getting into the Wizards’ overtime win over the Lakers and five-game winning streak that raises the question of whether the team’s newfound success will last (0:30). Then they talk about what the Timberwolves can do to salvage this season and their future (17:00), whether Houston should rebuild or try for the playoffs (25:30), their picks for All-Star reserves (37:00), and more. Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O'Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Football season is never over. The Ringer NFL show has got all your football needs covered from free agency to the draft and so much more. Check out the Ringer NFL show on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to The Mishamatch. I'm Chris Vernon and joining me as he does every Tuesday from the Ringer.com. It's Kevin O'Connor, A.K. Kevin O'Bombermer, Kevin O'Connor, Kevin O'Connor, Kevin O'Conflict, Kevin O'Cannibal, Kevin O'Kennie. Kevin O'Kennie Land, Kevin O'Kennie. Kevin O'Rtoe. What up.

Here they come the Wizards, Kevin. come. The ride of the winning streak, baby. We waited on them, but now after a big win in overtime against Los Angeles Lakers last night, they won five games in a row. And you look at that, it's wild to look at the Easter conference standings, you know, even when you see Miami who just went, I believe, four and three on their road trip, but, you know, have been better than they have, than they had been to start the season.

And these teams are, you're like never more than three or four games out from like being a home court advantage team in the Eastern Conference. And so it certainly was not too late for Washington. We'll see how many they can win out of 10, how many they can win in a row. But, you know, we were much higher than they have performed. We were much higher on them than they have performed this year. and you know, I think this is, obviously we didn't expect them to be winning five games in a row, but they're at least capable of winning games, which they had not shown to be capable of for the majority of the season up until this last two weeks.

I mean, do you mention the standings how tight they are. They're three and a half games back from Indiana who currently has the four seed. And Washington right now is in the 13 spot. And they're only a game and a half back from Miami for the 10 seed, a playing tournament spot. So you have three and a half game separation between the four seed and the 13 seed in the east. Anything can happen, man. It's still so early in the season right now. With Washington, you know, we kind of joke about, you know, putting our guy Mo Wagner, the starting lineup and putting Garrison Matthews in the starting lineup. But it does show, Chris, that having the five

best players in your starting lineup doesn't always mean that's the best thing to do for your team in terms of responsibilities, in terms of where shots go, in terms of the defensive impact, the guy might have. And Wagner and Matthews and their own respective ways have brought some energy to that starting five. And it's reshuffled the deck, moving certain guys to the bench that have better balanced that team. And I think it's also just the fact that this is the first time all season long,

they've had a continuous run of guys being healthy. Yeah, they did have a bad break. And they missed a lot of time for COVID. Exactly. And the other thing is it was nice to see, or it has been nice to see Bertons who they spent the fortune on the off season rise from the dead

because he was just, I mean, he was miserable the first 20 games of the season. And now over the course of these last like 10 games, he's shot like 45% from three, like he's a weapon which is what you spend you know, the money on is that

when you've got Brad Beal and you've got Russell Westbrook, these guys are going to command detention. These guys are going to be able to go to the basket. You just need to. him to be a guy you can throw it out to, and when he's open, he knocks it down. And that had been an impossibility for the first part of the season. But now, I mean, that's what he does.

You know what I mean? I still think it's an overpaid to pay for a guy that does that. But he proved last year he could do that and he could do it at a high rate. And so, you know, it's more fun that they're not horrible because they got two big, big stars on their team, and they get a lot of attention. and they get a lot of talk. So I'm glad they're at least making this fun because that was really rough to start the season, to say the least.

Yeah, and you know what? I think last night some of the players talked about Rui Hachamara's defense as well. And you have certain guys stepping up in different ways. I think Denny, as a rookie, has been really good on defense as well. Rui Hachamora has shown positional versatility on that team, and he's really locked in there. So it seems like the Wizards right now mid-season after just a horrific start dealing with the COVID stuff and all that. Some other guys being in and out of the lineup,

Russ included, they seem to be getting in a good rhythm being healthy and some of their guys that may have been struggling earlier and now stepping up. So it's all of these factors coming together that have the Wizards playing at a level that some people expected them to before the season. I liked the idea of what the Wizards could be when you have Russell Westbrook and Bradley Beal together. So, you know, they're riding this five game winning streak right now, Chris. they've beaten the Lakers, Blazers, Nuggets, Rockets, and Celtics. Those are some good, tough teams in there.

Are you buying this turnaround with them? Yes. You are? I just say, I think what we find out is as the season goes on, and especially with teams that are having to figure it out on the fly in a strange year, you know, we were at a spring, or at a summer league deal where Darry was giving his

impassioned speech about like it's stars it's a stars this is the the bill simmons podcast right yeah yeah yeah it's a star's lee and the stars it ends up working out right and like you're seeing as time goes on the teams with the best players start to figure it out you know and if you've got two out of your five you know it's hard to believe that you're going to be bad, right? If you've got two outstanding players of your five guys, at minimum, you know, you should be able to fill in the other three. There's very few examples of teams with two awesome guys. And I know that, you know, there are people that will argue Westbrook's not awesome anymore, but two awesome guys that have a crap team. And that team was a crap team. So

do I believe that they are the five and O team? No. But do I believe that they are much better than they performed at the beginning of the year. Yes. And I do think that, you know, we just talked about, and it's one of the hottest teams in the NBA, Phoenix. That didn't look like it does now, you know, the first 15, 20 games of the year. It just didn't. We were sitting there going, are we going to get the best out of Devin Booker? It's kind of become a Chris Paul team where they, you know, they play like one of the

slowest paces in the NBA. What are they going to be? But like, they figured it out. and I do think that there's, you know, some of that that's going to go on with Washington. We saw it last year with Houston. The Westbrook Hardin thing looked crappy at the beginning. And Westbrook was terrible.

And then that, you know, once it got from about January until they stopped the season, that Houston team looked awesome. You know, and then, of course, they came back in the bubble and it was a debacle there. But I do think that we do need to pay some mind to, if you add in major usage guys or you add in guys that are going to play a key part on your team or you've switched out your roster quite a bit, that this stuff always takes time, always.

And they had a harder road than usual because of sitting out for the amount of time they did, guys being in and out of the lineup, losing guys to injury, whatever it be. But I mean, so I look, I thought they were going to be a, at worst, a play in team. And I think they will be a playing team. I do. Yeah. I think they'll end up with one of the top 10 seeds. I mean, like, it'll be interesting.

I can't Orlando ahead of them. I wouldn't bet anything in Orlando. Atlanta, Miami, Charlotte, Chicago, New York. That's, you know, going up. That's a 12 through seven. We'll see. I mean, New York's really continuing to battle. Their defense is great.

I don't see any reason to doubt that the Knicks will, you know, continue to try to compete and win games. I don't see them falling off a cliff. Chicago, I've got to feel similarly about them. They get some good talent on that team. It's not a perfect fit, but they get a lot of guys playing well.

Charlotte, same thing. Miami should continue to get better, seven and three in their last 10 games. Atlanta, they're going to be competitive. So, you know,

with Washington in there. Are they? Yeah, I mean, they're going to score points. They're going to have high scoring games. You know, anytime you have Trey Young,

and we'll see what happens with John Collins, if they keep him through the deadline or what. But they get talent. on that team. So there's like a lot of teams battling for four spots. There's a lot of teams. Let's talk about the flip side of that Washington game, which is the Lakers losing. This is life without Anthony Davis. They lost 127 to 124. LeBron James insisted he can handle the workload that's being asked of him. It was another 40 plus minute night. It's the fourth time this month that he has done that. And his quote after the game was, I think this whole narrative of

LeBron needs more rest, or I should take more rest, or I should take time here, it's become a lot bigger than what it actually is. I've never talked about it. I don't talk about it. I don't believe in it. We all need more rest. Shit. This is a fast turnaround from last season, and we all wish we could have more rest, but I'm

here to work. I'm here to punch the clock and be available to my teammates. And if I'm hurt or I'm not feeling well, that we can look at it then. But I have nothing but honest people advising me, but I'm also honest with myself and well, as well. And me having a love for the game of being able to be available for my teammates is more important than anything. Of course, he played 43 minutes last night against the Wizards. It took responsibility for missing the free throw.

I got to make the free throw. You know, blah, blah, blah. What do you think? I mean, nobody's going to tell him what to do. Yeah. You know what I mean? Nor am I. That's pretty clear.

that's pretty clear. I mean, I would think that the Lakers know what they're doing with his minutes and that if there was reason to arrest him that they would. I mean,

it is worrying anytime you have a guy in their mid to late 30s with those amount of miles on his body playing him that much. Lakers are doing what they're going to do, though. I mean,

I'm not super worried about them long term, but I don't like LeBron playing 40 minutes every night. But if that's what they're going to do, I think they have the science and they know his body better than anybody. And LeBron knows

his body better than anybody with the amount that they invest in him to do that. So you know, it's kind of funny hearing him say that about himself when so many people are worried about the minutes and on the flip side, like with the Clippers, you have Paul George on a minute's limit not closing the game. So many different

teams and players handle minute situations so dramatically differently. It says for the first month of this season, or actually, I'm sorry, prior to February, LeBron was averaging 33 minutes a game. That is 43rd in the NBA.

Since the start of the month, however, he has averaged 38 minutes per game in 11 games the most in the NBA. It is unbelievable to think a guy in his 18th year is playing the most minutes.

Forget all the production. He's playing the most minutes in the NBA. There's 19-year-olds that don't play 38 minutes. Yeah. He's been in the league for 18 years. Like I just, and you and I talked about this when AD went out. You've got to be willing to take some losses and just say, look, if we're totally healthy by the playoffs, come one, come all.

But that obviously is not going to be the case if the guy's playing 43 minutes against the frigging Washington Wizards on a Monday night. you know. Well, it's like I said, you get the Clippers, resting Paul George in pivotal minutes to close a game to nurse, you know, the fact that he had a toe injury and he's coming back and if they want to ease it back in. So it's just the two LA teams are representatives of the whole league. That was so annoying.

It was so annoying. There were two and a half minutes left in the game. Mm-hmm. Really? I know. It's annoying, but it just shows how differently teams view you know, minutes and load management and all that.

It's different ends of the spectrum. Can we talk about that game real quick? That was the game from Sunday. And it was a huge marquee game. Look, I heard Rosillo and Simmons yesterday, and they were going on and on about Brooklyn and about how good Brooklyn is and about how, you know, the problems with the clippers

and all this other stuff, right? That went on. And like, you need to get buckets down the stretch. and this is a team that, you know, has got these three of the best offensive players ever. And, of course, Durant wasn't playing in that game. And I was, I have to be honest with you, I was stunned listening to it because I watched that game and thought, A, they blew a huge lead. Huge. Like, that game was over, and they didn't step on the Clippers throat.

B, it was, down the stretch, you had the one Kyrie layup that he made. But Hardin got found and he missed the free throws. Their bucket that they got was the most outrageous, miracle D'Andre Jordan tip-in that, like, you could do that a billion times and it would never go in. And yet it did. Meanwhile, on the other end, Kauai Leonard, who was without Paul George, who had been awesome in the game, they had no answer for George.

Kauai was going to the basket, and he was getting buckets down the stretch. They took to bad shots with the game on the line. But I didn't watch that and think, oh, my God, Brooklyn is so devastating. I thought, yo, they just yacked this thing away. And if it weren't for, you know, the hardened flop at the end of the game, Kauai ties that up right there. And then, you know, all bets are off. I don't know.

I didn't look at that as a demerit against the clippers watching that game. I actually thought that they showed a lot of heart coming back in that game. I don't think it's a demurit against the Clippers, but I don't. I don't see why it's a knock against the Nets. They beat the Clippers without Kevin Durant. I understand. But I'm talking about the way they were, it wasn't like they were just, oh my God, so devastating. How can you stop this team?

They be one of the best teams in the NBA without their best player. I understand. That's why it was impressive. I don't take any issue with that comment. It was about what they are. They got Kyrie, they got Hardin, and they were able to knock this team off. Kauai was getting to the basket. That's what I don't know.

I mean, look, I get it, right? It's always the clippers are never going to get. The only mention of Hardin is that Hardin flop, not the 37 points with seven assists running the orchestrated. Well, that's the end of the game. I mean, that's how the game ended. I know. I know, but I'm very impressed by what the Nets are doing. And I love the way that they use Bruce Brown as like a.

a small ball center on offense, but he's still defending guards and wings on defense. It's just intriguing. Like, it's intriguing position on his basketball. I'm really excited to see what they do and how they develop chemistry and what type of sets they install on offense, how they operate on defense when Kevin Durant returns.

Like, they're a fascinating team to monitor right now. There's no question that they are a fascinating team, and they are absolutely devastating offensively. I was just saying I didn't look at that game as a demerit of the Clippers. And that being said, I don't understand with Ty Lou, like, he's got to figure out what they are.

Like, he doesn't, he goes big when I think he shouldn't go big and he goes small when I think he shouldn't go small. It's the damnedest thing. Like, he put Zubatch in there and he just got, I mean, they just like, you might as well of, like, put a red suit on him. It was crazy. They were just going to attack him and attack him, attack him. And it's like, you know, sometimes this guy, like, decides.

he's not going to play big guys. And then other times he throws in guys randomly. And then a team like that, I mean, you're just, you're throwing, you're throwing slow big guys to the wolves against a team that can drive and kick like they can. Anyways, as we move on, that was the Clippers game over the weekend. We have since we last spoke, Kevin, had a coach get fired. and that was Ryan Saunders in Minnesota. I told you earlier this year, when I watched them play, I just didn't get it.

I didn't get it. I didn't understand if they are where they are in their timeline of what they want to be. I think they fancied themselves as a team that was going to compete for the playoffs. That's obviously not going to be happening. But I just watched that team, and it felt like they could do whatever they wanted to do.

Russell could do whatever he wanted to do. Towns could do it. I mean, like, they just didn't have accountability and could just play however they wanted to play. And so many times just felt like five guys out there doing whatever they want to do. And whoever got the ball, Billy Beezer gets the ball or Towns gets the ball or whoever. And so I am unsurprised that, you know, they let go of Ryan Saunders. And I just thought that team was a mess.

watching it. Strange circumstances, though, with replacing a coach. It's pretty well. In the way that they did. Yeah, it's pretty odd the way they did that as has been covered on our website and our podcast. But yeah, man, it's the type of thing with Minnesota getting Chris Finch now. It's a very odd decision.

I do think it's worth noting he was a top candidate for Indiana and New Orleans. So he is a guy that other teams that baby firing their coaches in the coming weeks or months will probably go after. So it seems like Minnesota just wanted to get their guy right now. But the circumstances are weird. And like I, it's going to be very interesting to see the way the team dynamic is. Usually the first game after you hire a new coach,

the team plays well. They're going hard on defense. They have like their best game of the season. You're feeling good. But this is so unusual. I'm sure there are players on that on that roster that would have rather have had an assistant get the operas. opportunity. And you have this new guy coming in midseason with a totally different perspective.

It was like, hey, here's what you guys are doing wrong. We're changing everything, even though there's no practice time, even though you don't have time to make those wholesale changes. So with Minnesota, I'm very, very intrigued to see how they actually operate and what goes on with them moving forward because this is, you have a new coach permanent. He's probably going to try to make some big changes. And mid-year, that's not easy. And as you mentioned, Kiv, I mean, this guy is highly regarded. It's odd circumstances the way this all took place. And, of course, you saw Damien Lillard and C.J. McCollum stump for their guy, Vanderpool,

who they didn't just move over on the bench. Another highly accomplished assistant. Hopefully it's an opportunity at some point and likely will. Here is the odd thing with the T. Wolves, though, in this situation. Typically, you finish out the season with an interim coach, and then you get to the offseason, and you decide, okay, who's the best to lead our franchise going forward? And especially if your season is going like absolute crap, which it is. They got what, six wins this year?

They got seven and 24. They got seven. They got to give them that seventh. Just like Tom Brady. They got seven. I apologize. They got seven wins. Seven wins. So they have seven wins.

Doesn't this feel, though, like a team that they are out of it, whether they want to admit it or not? Yes, they're out of it. and whether they want to admit it or not. And so it would be especially given that you have talked about this being a good draft coming up, there's no fans in the stance. If there was a time to just punt a season and, Lord knows, they're experts at doing this in Minnesota, given their history.

But if they did, if they did punt or like they, you know, they tried to develop. all their young players. They're playing Jared Colvert to find out what they've got in him. All that stuff. Then maybe, right, like they get a high draft pick. They hold on to their draft pick, right? Because that was going to be a debacle. Real quick, Chris, on their draft pick, this morning, I was texting with Jay Kyle Mann and Jonathan Charks co-host on Ringer NBA University because on Wednesday show, we're doing a big thing about Minnesota. We're going to spend like 20, 25 minutes just talking about the Tim Rulves and breaking them down. And Charks, you know, and Kyle were texting back and forth about their draft pick.

Exactly what we're talking about. Yeah. It's critical to keep in mind. If that pick falls out of the top three, Golden State gets it. I know. So even if Minnesota only, even if Minnesota has the number one odds, they only have a 40.1% chance of keeping their pick. So they have better odds of losing their pick even with the worst record than they do of keeping it.

So with them, man, it's tough. Better bottom out, baby. Better bottom out. This is why this becomes such a fascinating case study. Because on one hand, you have, there is real motivation to bottom out. On the other hand, why in the world do you bring in your next and new head coach and then theoretically saddle him with all of these losses and have him a part of this losing-ass culture to start things off.

I've got to believe that there are two things going on, and maybe Rosas is sitting there going, they made the Russell deal. They don't want towns to be the next guy to say, get me the hell out of here. They paid Malik Beasley. They drafted Anthony Edwards, obviously. and they don't want to,

they need to show that they can be competitive. They need to show that he actually knows what he's doing because truthfully, if you're that GM, you might not survive if you just, you know what I mean? God forbid you punt on the season and then you don't get your pick too, right? And you lose it and all of a sudden, Golden State has that pick.

So I don't know. It feels like a GM. making a move to say, look, we're probably out of it, but I'm going to get a real coach in here, my guy that's going to prove that this roster is much better than what it has played like and to prove that I am the smart guy you think I am, right? Like that's what that hiring in the middle of the season feels like, like that it's a GM that is not saying, let's just tell with it,

let's just punt. It's a GM that wants the owner to see that he knows what he's doing and that the coach was the problem. It doesn't take a genius to see that it's not just the coach. That needs to be changed with that roster and that team and everything else. But hopefully for Minnesota, it's one step forward because they need a whole lot to change there

in the coming month. and years. And they are a fascinating case study because it feels like they're going to try to play this out. I mean, they still may, they're going to suck anyway, but it's not unless Chris Finch is like, you know, Red Arbach incarnate, he comes in. Yeah. All of a sudden, Minnesota's a really good team. And Gerson Rosa has to stand it up everywhere saying, I told you, I told you this team

wasn't crap. We'll find out what happens. With that said, if they are not a tank team. They are a tank team. Okay. Their competition, it appeared, Cleveland's lost 10 in a row now. So that was a fun thing to start the season,

but Cleveland's gone the wrong way drastically fast and has basically just fallen out of this thing. So they are going to be there when it's all said and done as a competition for, those lottery, Detroit, for sure. I saw them in person last week, Kevin. I mean, it is holy. It's bad.

It's bad. Buddy. I mean, I, it is hard to remember a team that like, where I went to the arena and it was like, oh, I'm excited to see so and so, like where it was, like, it was Sadiq Bay, who actually has been very good. It looks like they nailed it. No, they nailed it in the draft. You could argue that the Nets should have kept the pick and chosen Stique Bay.

You could make that argument. He looks not good. Oh, for sure. He was Easter conference player of the week, for goodness sake. Which is kind of weird, but that's a different. I don't really care about arguing about who should be player in the week, but it should not have been Sique Bay. You don't think it should have been Seneke Bay? I don't.

And we started the show talking about Washington. Look, it's really Detroit Cleveland. Detroit and Cleveland are the only ones in the Eastern Conference. and in the Western Conference, Minnesota, and then Oklahoma City is still being competitive, but is taking a little bit of a downturn. They were closer to 500. Now there's seven games below. The other one that is fascinating, and I'm interested in your opinion on this, is Houston.

And Houston was a team that we talked about, like, oh, this is just going to be a rebuild. You know, it's not a bad year to have a good draft pick. But then they came out, and it was like, yo, Stephen Silas, this team looks. like they got good chemistry. They got one of the best defenses in the NBA there for a short amount of time. They've really gotten it together. And they have had a friggin

free fall. I was at the game. Christian Wood got hurt. And he turned his ankle. Yeah. And they blasted the Grizzlies that night. And I walked away like, yo, this team is on a string.

Like, I loved the way they looked to Sean Tade and, you know, wall looks good and they got a new Eric Gordon since the Hardin deal and this Christian Wood is just kind of everywhere on both. And then Christian Wood went out of that game. And since then it has been, I mean, it is odd when you have seen Christian Wood and DeAndre Hunter go out and their respective teams go into absolute friggin freefalls. You know what I mean? Richard Wood was a borderline All-Star. I mean, he was going to be one of the many guys

that were in the conversation for an all-star spot. But that team was like a great story in the NBA who had really good numbers. Like, Krisha Wood should win MVP in retrospect. They can't win. They can't win a game since he went out. Yeah, the favorite over the Brown. Maybe they've won one game since he went out.

I mean, it was the Memphis game. They've lost every game. They won that. won and then they've lost every game since. So nine in a row. Yeah, nine in a row since, since Christian Wood. Eight in a row. So they beat Memphis that day and then they've lost eight in a row since.

My God. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, and Oladipo has missed some time during this little stretch too. And I mean, look, with Houston, I said this at the time that the Hardin trade happened, that their team that very well could make more moves. And Ola Depot is somebody where he still wants to go. to Miami. I've reported that since the offseason.

We'll see if that interest is mutual. I would expect teams like the Knicks or the Mavericks to sniff around with Oladipo and see what the potential trade possibilities are there. And same thing with PJ Tucker. Reported this on Monday that the Milwaukee Bucks still like PJ Tucker, just as they did last November when those conversations were first happening about Houston maybe blowing things up. And I would expect many other teams to have interest in B.J. Tucker. So with Houston, in a market in which there are not a lot of teams that are looking to be sellers, Houston is a team that could say, we're going to sell and get more than they otherwise would have.

Because this is a, this is not a market in which that teams looking for additions are going to be able to find it. So Houston could provide that. And the fascinating thing is do they get married to what they were when they did have Christian Wood and sit back and say, look, Golden State's in the eight seed right now. We're four back from that. We're not 10 back from that. We're four back from that. And so let's just fight our time. This has been a rough go.

We get Christian back and we're going to win our share of game. So like I don't, I don't know. I think that's the wrong thing to do. They are a team, Chris, and I look at them and I'm saying, you want to go south. You want to go down the standings here. You like competing for a playoff spot.

It's just worthless. It's worth us. It's hard to do with a bunch of veterans, though. It is hard to do. They're doing a good job at it right now. It's usually, they're not doing it on purpose. No, they're not, but they're doing a good job. Right.

It's just, it's hard to get, like, you would have to move off a lot of those guys. You know what I mean? Yeah, I mean, not too many of them. I mean, I do think like once Christian Wood comes back and you have him and John Wall, even if you do remove Oedipo and if you remove PJ Tucker, Christian Wood and John Wall with Jashon Tate and some other talent on the roster We're going to lead just to some wins. But I think to your point, you're also saying, like, if you want a full-on tank,

you also have to move Eric Gordon, right? You also have to do something like that. And we'll see how far Houston goes. I'm not sure how far they need to go. Because you mentioned those other teams of bad records, Chris, Minnesota, they're going to be bad. Detroit's going to be bad. Cleveland's going to be bad.

OKC is sort of in that middle ground spot right now, right? Where they're going to be competitive. They get some talent on that roster, too. but the other teams above them, the Kings, they've lost seven in a row, but they want to make the playoffs. I don't expect that to change. Orlando, I wouldn't bet on them to make the playoffs in the East,

like I just said earlier, but they're trying to win games. New Orleans is trying to win. Atlanta's trying to win. Miami's trying to win. Washington, Charlotte, all these other teams above them in the standings are clearly trying to win.

So there's like a pocket of four or five teams, Minnesota, Detroit, Cleveland, Houston, and OKC that can just say today, we're not going to, you know, do things to try to win the playoffs. We're going to not full on tank, but not try to win. Right. Those teams can easily, easily get those high lottery odds if they want to because there's 25 other teams that are trying to get to come to Cunningham as a franchise changer.

Yeah, they do. They do. Evan Mowgli, the center from USC is another guy that people view is a potential franchise changer, both of them, Cunningham and Mowgli. And then there's other talent. Jalen Green's killing it in the G League right now. Jalen Suggs at Gonzaga. It looks like a steady, reliable guard playmaker for your team.

So I just wonder on the franchise changing. You know what I'm saying? Like people project that NBA superstar. We didn't project any of the – we didn't project Anthony Edwards as an NBA superstar. You know what I'm saying? He was like a guy that had like the low floor high ceiling. Like he's a risk. He's a risk.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like nobody was sitting there saying this guy is – this guy's got to be an NBA superstar. Yeah. Right. Like a no brainer star. No. Yeah.

I mean, people, people have thought that a lot. I mean, look, all we have to do is go back a year. Everybody thought Zion was going to be a superstar. And he, I mean, he's averaging 26 points and he still hasn't played 100 games. Doing a Thursday's video is going to be about Zion, Chris. Oh, it is? Yeah. It's about Zion.

Yeah, I don't think you'll like it too much. Oh. Uh-huh. I won't. I don't like you well. Why? You don't like Zion. I do like Zion.

Do you? Yes. Are you sure? Yes. Okay. What are you talking about? Okay. Man, if you knew how much I have invested in Zion, you could lose your mind.

Who wants him to be better than me? Nobody. I've got my money. My money's where my mouth is on your, your cards and your top shots. Man, what? In between cards and things. top shots. I got a lot more invested in Zion than most of the people

that claim to love him. So I am in. My criticisms are the same as they have always been of Zion, which is there is a different level of averaging a million points and be whatever and being a winning

basketball player that impacts winning in a big way. And you have to do that on both ends. And there is no reason. but getting better defensively. There's no reason he shouldn't be a dominant rebounder and defender. Yeah, he's getting better. Him averaging seven rebounds a game is an absurd.

Slowly but surely he's getting better at the defensive end of the floor. We're seeing signs of him like doing the stuff he did at Duke. But he is a force of nature. I love Zion. Yeah, me too. How can you not love Zion? I don't. I, it's funny when I watch them and this happened in the Boston game,

I was screaming at the telehealth. just give him the damn ball. Like, I don't understand that team, like, half the time I watch them, I'm like, look, you don't have to have Lonzo Ball, Eric Bledso, uh, Nikiel Alexander. You ain't got to have these guys have the ball at all. They don't have to bring it up the court and take the risk that he may not get it. He was like one for four at half. of that Boston game.

And you know what happened in the second half? They give him the ball at the top of the key. They just say, here, you, you initiate it. They've been doing a much better job of that. That's what Thursday's video is about. You initiate this. And he is unstoppable. I mean, there's nothing you can do when he's 25 feet away from the basket.

And he's just going to decide to go to the basket. And that frigate tomato chest of Tristan Thompson was ridiculous. Tristan Thompson Thompson is a full grown-ass man who's been in the league for a decade. The dude was in the fifth row. So, yeah, I love Zion. That team is confusing and disappointing. They are confusing. To say the least.

And their defensive metrics are trash, and he is responsible. He just is, you know? Not totally, but one of the reasons, yeah. He's a major culprit of why their defense. is so bad, even giving their personnel. All-Star Reserves are going to get named tonight. Now, I kind of jotted this down, Kiv. I think this is going to be quick work in the West.

All right? Just hear me up. Donovan Mitchell's going to make it. Rudy Gobert is going to make it. I don't know. I think Conley's probably going to be on the outside looking in, because I think those two will make it, and I don't think that team's going to get three.

They might. but Donovan and Gobert, I think, are locks to make it. Lillard 100% lock. George, 100% lock. So that's four of the reserves. Chris Paul and Anthony Davis, they're going to make it. They'll be in. Well, maybe Chris Paul.

We'll see. Devin Booker could. We'll see what happens there. By the way, with AD, though, he will make it, but it will be an injury replacement. So he'll make it tonight, but then eventually it will be replaced. Yeah. And that's six. So, I mean,

it's really like one spot that'll be filled in and that will be the debate. Whether that's Zion, whether that is, Fox, Conley, I mean.

DeMarter Rosen, another guy. Gilded as Alexander. I don't expect SGA to make it. Devin Booker, too. Yeah. I mean,

and there will be, there's going to be one argument spot, wouldn't you say? I think it would be ridiculous to think that anybody would argue over Mitch's, Mitchell, Gobert, Lillard,

Chris Paul, Paul, George, or Anthony Davis. Like, those guys have to. I'm with you. I think the West is easier to figure out than the East. The East is really tough. But the West's, yeah, I think we're mostly in agreement. I think there will be some tough choices there.

On reserves in the East? You're going to have some fans who are pissed off tomorrow morning that their guy to make it. That's really one spot. Yeah, one spot with like a number of guys you could get it. No, the East, I have no idea who these seven guys are going to be tonight. I assume Jalen Brown and James Harden.

I assume those two will be there. I assume Chris Middleton will be there. After that, my assumptions are done. I'm not kidding. Yeah. Like you could, there are people that have made the case for Levine. Tatum, Tatum, you mentioned him. Yes. Tatum, Levine, Randall, Bam.

Bam, Butler. Ben Simmons. Ben Simmons. Ben Simmons will get there. I think Simmons will get there because they have Julius Randall, Vucevich, Sabonis, Jeremy Grant, Trey Young,

he'd make a mess. Zach Levine, Brogden, Holiday, Lowry, Van Bleet. There's a lot of guys. I have no idea. Like that? Gordon Hayward.

A lot of guys. Is it fair? Is it fair? All right. So you think Tatum for sure. So let's start. Tatum does make it. Okay.

I don't know. I mean, we'll say. Oh, you don't know. Okay. Then how about this? Nothing would shock me. Like, I don't know what the coaches will do here. Okay.

Do you agree Jalen Brown, James Harden, Chris Middleton? Those are the only three that I would be shocked. I'd be shocked if Tatum doesn't make it. Okay. I don't know what the coaches will do, but I'd have Tatum there for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So I'll agree with you.

If Jason Tatum is not named an All-Star, I would be shocked to. All right. I agree with you on that. So then, there's really three. Like those are the only four that I, if they didn't make it, people would be like, what the hell is going on here? Like, why are these guys?

Why, how can you justify so and so being in and this guy not being in? And then the other ones are kind of fun ones. Because it'll be like, you know, Randall would be making an all-star team or Levine would be making an all-star team or, you know, Van Vlead, as you mentioned. Like, who knows, right? But there's three other spots. The West is way easier, I think, to pick. And who knows where the coaches are going to go on this Eastern Conference.

But that is getting announced tonight. And so inevitably, people are going to come up with fake arguments regarding. We mentioned Middleton. We think he's going to be there. Obviously, Janice is going to be there. You wrote an article about the Bucks, who last year we're taking the world by storm until, you know, the season got halted.

The bubble, they were not the same team that they were that we saw during the year that looked like they were going to win, you know, 65 games or more. And they weren't that same team in the bubble. They've come back this year. They've altered their roster, Drew Holiday there now. Eric Bloodsoe gone. We wrote about where they kind of fit in in the mix here because Philly has been the class of the Eastern Conference, not the Bucks, who were so great last year.

So putting together that article and thinking about what the Bucks could do, could alter. Walk me through it. The article is pretty much just about their defense and the decline there. This season, they are ranked 25th in defensive rating against teams with a top 15 offense. Last season, they were sixth against top 15 offenses. The year before that, they were first against top 15 offenses. And so there's been a slippage against teams that are playoff caliber opponents on the offensive end of the floor. And that's because Milwaukee is getting exploited in different ways.

Brooke Lopez made an all defensive team last year looks a few steps slower now. It never was a quick guy, but he looks even slower now. Teams know what the bucks are going to do. The way in which they defend pick and rolls, teams know that they can deny a screen and get an open shot. they know what the Bucks do when it comes to dropping Brooke Lopez into the paint, how they're going to overhelp to clog the paint and prevent at-room shots. And the bucks, that's what they've done a great job at in recent years, is preventing shots near the rim.

They still are. They're still doing what they want to do. The issue is as teams are taking advantage and getting open three-point shots with quality shooters. And that's something league-wide this year that we're seeing a difference with. Over at NBA.com, there's an article about how in the NBA this year, there's a negative correlation for teams that protect the rim best. They are now doing worse on defense,

whereas the last two seasons, the teams that were best at protecting the rims were the best teams on defense. So that's because teams are, offenses are likely adjusting there in terms of just picking those apart and getting open shots. And so from Milwaukee, you know,

everybody talks about Mike Boodenholzer, how he's always been stubborn, doesn't want to make changes and all that. But this year he is making changes here, Chris. Like they're installing more. switching than they have in the past. And they're doing it more often when they have Janus at the five, which they don't play a lot. But they are even doing it when Brooke Lopez is on the court. And Janus said recently how they're using these games as practice to figure out

their switching scheme. So they have it ready in a couple months from now for the postseason. And with Milwaukee, I look at that and I think that's encouraging that they're doing something like that. But I still look at the personnel. And it's just like we've talked about throughout the season, Chris. There are some holes on that team. There are some holes. And like granted, you get Drew Holiday, you have a guy like him that helps you a lot. But the depth behind him, as we've seen with Holiday being out, like DeVincenzo is not the same level defensively as like a West Matthews. You had guys like George Hill and Eric Bledsoe last year who have been replaced by Bryn Forbes and DJ Augustine.

There's holes on the team. And if you're, let's say you go with the honest at the five in the postseason and you're playing that a lot, that's going to put more strain on the back court depth. and so I look at the bucks and just like we talked about a little bit earlier, I think they got to make a move. I'd like to see them make a move try to go after a PJ Tucker or some other wing or guard out there who can add positional versatility on the defensive end of the floor. So they're making some positive changes with the switching.

The production is not the same and the personnel is not the same. So they're in a very weird spot right now. I'm very curious to see what they're going to do over the coming month, but they don't have a lot of assets to trade to make upgrades or fine upgrades. You know who they could use Bogdanovich? Yeah, they could use him.

What a disaster that is. I watched it play with the Hawks the other night. And I'm like, you know, this is, it would be better for him and it's better for the buck. He doesn't answer the defensive question.

No, he would help, but he wouldn't answer the defensive question. He would have made DeVincenzo, you know, I guess Devinchenzo would have win the trade. But I think part of the defensive question

will also, you know, the more they can get, on the floor, the better, because he is an outstanding defender in his own right. And their perimeter guy's got to hold up more. You know, these last couple of years, it's fascinating what you say about teams that guard the rim aren't holding up as well because they could just set Brooke Lopez near the pain. And then Janus was pretty much just playing free safety. You know, if you make him guard, where he just can't roam around and help everybody

and just use that frame to get in, to screw up everything, to screw up your passing lanes, to screw up your, you know, now you're taking these crazy floaters instead of, like, if you can make him guard all the way out,

which teams now trying to do, now, you know, that defensive scheme, you know, I can see how they've got to, they've got to switch it up and be better for sure. And I don't know,

God, it's hard to, it's hard to know what they have, you know, the last time we thought they were making a deal. It was like they were moving Devinchenzo and what, DJ Wilson,

I think it was, right? I think those were the guys that they were moving in that Bogdanovich deal. I don't know, like you said, how much you can get

out of, out of that roster in order to upgrade it. The other thing we got to mention before we get out of here is the Utah Jazz have continued to

keep on, keeping on. very shocking to see last night Lamello ball hit the too little move on Mike Conley calling you too little but Charlotte was game there for a while and then Utah did what Utah does

which is blast people and I told you if it were not for them so much of the attention would be on these Phoenix Suns who have also continued to win at a crazy rate. And we wonder, you know, outside of the two L.A's, if we say Utah and Phoenix and the two L.A's,

if I gave you those right now as the top four seeds in the West, would you take that deal? Say, I'll give you the two LAs, Phoenix and Utah, top four seeds. And I get everybody else. So in other words, you're asking, will the suns drop out of the four spot? Or any of those? I mean, you know, they got a long time without AD.

Lakers have a long time without AD. I think I'll stick with the top four. You would? You would take that deal. You would say the top four? Yeah, sure. I'll stick with them. Yeah.

Okay. I mean, it's hard to imagine Denver or any of these teams that we were high on going into the year kind of busting through there. There's a lot of time left, though. A lot of time left. But it feels like there's a pretty good divide. that has started, you know, because we thought the two LA teams were the best. Utah's been the best, and Phoenix has been out of this world.

And so it feels like there's a pretty big divide that has started over the course of these last three weeks between those teams and then everybody after them. It's kind of like what we were talking about at the bottom. Like there's kind of a divide with some of these bottom teams towards the group above, the teams up top are beginning to separate. Yep. All right, we are going to do a mailbag on Friday. We'll at least take some questions.

And it's also, it's video game week at the ringer.com. So, you know, send us some video game questions about maybe games. I'm playing or games. Chris's son is playing. I play, you know,

we got snowed in in Memphis. That's true. So I became a 2K guy playing against my son. And this is, So they have all these classic teams, everything on there, right? And I heard a phrase come out of my son's mouth that I never, in a million years, thought I would hear come out of his mouth. And it was the following phrase,

Who is John Crotty and why is he beating me? John Crotty, backup point guard for one of the classic Miami Heat teams had to come in. because Tim Hardaway was in foul trouble. And he's what hell. I mean, just wore him out. Just wore him out with John Crotty. You know who I used to be really good in 2K

was just like a random name? Aaron Brooks. I was always good with Aaron Brooks. I was just the timing with his jumper. I was awesome with him. I tell you this, man. These kids nowadays, it is a different world in terms of their,

I credit that, that game, because you just end up knowing about like literally the history of the league by playing that thing. You know what I mean? Because we'll play games with like the frigging whoever, 71 Lakers versus the 68 bucks or whatever. And you just start learning all these players

and have the end up with this knowledge of all these guys. There's some of these games that I'll be in and the bench comes in and I have no idea who these people are. Some of these like 80s teams. I'm like, who are you? but it's super fun to say the least. So 2K is the only one I've been playing. Oh, well,

and I'm the master at that PGA game. PGA 2K. Okay. All right. I play that. I play the golf game. Hell yeah. Yeah.

Do you play anything besides Warzone? I play war zone and we play NHL sometimes. Oh. We play in NHL and I like playing as a defenseman. Really? I've really embraced that role, Chris. I used to like playing, you know, a forward spot and being on the attack. But it's all.

all about mentality with with with with with with with chel like i i get off on getting stops you know get back in the defensive zone and like poke checking or getting a hit like i try to take on a dream on green mentality and get my team going with some energy it's fun i like playing shell it's not a great game at all um it hasn't really changed too much since i last played in like 2011 or 2012 but yeah it's still fun you know once a week play that with your boys get some dubs It's a good time. And you got the hockey beard. I do have the hockey beard.

You have a defense man now. Yes, I do. You look like an enforcer. All right. Give them the mailbag address. The mailbag is NBA mailbag at gmail.com. So over the course of the week, Sasha and I will look through that and find some questions for Friday show and we'll answer those towards the end, including this week

some video game stuff. But ask us anything. Ask us about life. Ask us about music. Ask us about food. also definitely ask us about basketball too but send us anything you want um one other quick thing chris spoon by h my favorite restaurant in los angeles announced on monday night that it is closing its doors on saturday um so if you're in the los angeles area order spoon by h this week it'll be

one of the best meals of your life and they're closing because you know the pandemic it has affected many small businesses many restaurants local restaurants in a very very negative way. They're not exempt from that just like anybody else. The thing that really annoys me is that it's been like a lot of fraud charges and a lot of people who have deliberately went at them and really buried them because the way it works with credit card companies. I don't want to get too much into that. But with Spoon by Age, that's a place that it became a home away from home for me. The year my dad was doing chemotherapy with his cancer diagnosis, when I was in LA away from my family, like, that's the place I wanted to go with my friends and have good conversation

and have laughs and forget about all the crap happening in my personal life. And so that's the truth for a lot of people that go there. It's a place that made you feel at home with the love that Yunjin and her family put into that place, building that up over the years in Los Angeles and for it to get, you know, taken down after this year because of some scumbags and because of the the failures of the government to support small businesses and restaurants. It's really just infuriating. And, you know, I cried last night after finding that out. I don't feel good this morning while doing this podcast because it's like losing a close friend.

That's what it's like finding that out with Spoon by age. And so I would encourage me. There's a miracle, you know? I don't know. We'll see. We'll see what happens. I mean, ultimately with Spoon and with Junjin, I'm confident like her future is bright. And she's going to be able to come out bigger and better than ever someday in the future.

but for anybody who lives in LA order some food by age this week and for no matter where you live I encourage you support your local restaurants support your local businesses because they're in a time like this they need to help so many of those places are just hanging on by a thread

and so just support them this week maybe there's a here's hoping there's a miracle out there for them and that the story is not completely written and I know how important that place I mean, you've mentioned it many times over the years.

I mean, anybody that's listening to this podcast, I've heard you mention that. And Isaac, our former producer. Isaac Lee is the first person who brought me there. I remember, like, Isaac said, hey, like, we're going on this place, Spoon by H. You know, I want you to check it out. And I forget who was there that night. But I had, like, 20 plus dinners at Spoon By H that entire year. I think it was, like, 25 dinners I had Spoon by H.

And I wasn't in L.A. full time that year because I was back home, you know, helping my parents out and everything all the time. But that place became a home away from home. And it's kind of hurt going back to Los Angeles and not being able to go there and just enjoy that amazing food to see Junjin and Joseph and her family and just to feel just to feel the love that they put into that place. It sucks. It sucks and it hurts. And that's why I would encourage anybody, like I said, support your local restaurants because they need the help. Well said.

Thanks to producer, Sasha, as always. Send us email to the mailbag and we will talk to you on Friday.