The Mismatch - Don’t Overlook the Grizzlies, Who Gets the Blame for Phoenix, and Instant Reactions to Playoff Matchups

Episode Date: April 15, 2025

Verno and Jacoby break down tonight’s play-in games, starting with the Hawks-Magic matchup (01:44) and the Grizzlies-Warriors matchup (07:14). They then discuss tomorrow’s play-in matchups before debating the best possible scenarios that could come out of the play-in (16:32). Next, they get into the news of David Griffin’s firing in New Orleans (30:15) and Mike Budenholzer’s firing in Phoenix (36:37). With Joe Dumars expected to take over Griffin's role with the Pelicans, what will they do with Zion Williamson? Does Kevin Durant deserve to take some blame for the Suns’ disastrous season? Finally, the guys briefly preview the playoff matchups that have already been set (45:50). Leave us a message on our Mismatch Voicemail line! [phone] Walmart Express. Dinner, delivered in as fast as an hour The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit http://www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Chris Vernon and David Jacoby Producers: Jessie Lopez and Tucker Tashjian Social: Keith Fujimoto Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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welcome to the mismatch i'm chris vernon and joining me see us every week from the ringer dot com is dave jacobby huge night for the memphis grisleys this evening it's a huge night It's a huge night for the Memphis Grizzies. It's a huge night for the Grizzies and the Warriors and also Atlanta and Orlando, as we do have two play-in games that are going on as we were recording this on Tuesday

morning. We've got some playoff matchup set. We'll give our instant reaction to those. Obviously, on the Friday episode, we'll go in-depth with all of our picks for these play-off series. But we do have some news we're going to get to, but first we'll start with these play-in games. The early one

not as interesting as the late one, I think we would say. We've got Atlanta and Orlando. Pollo and Franz averaged 61 against the Hawks this year. And then we have one of the fastest teams in the NBA, the Hawks, which two feature Trey Young, who's got outstanding clutch numbers if it gets to a close game. And then you've got the slowest team in the NBA, Orlando, who did kind of find their mojo at the end of the season. They ended the season winning five of six.

They won 12 of their last 18 in order to get to 500. And then luckily, becoming the first division winner with a non-winning record, but at least it wasn't a losing record. That would have been super depressing to have a division winner, have a losing record. But they did end the season 500. And now, look, outside of analyzing this game in depth, let's just get on record in terms of this, whoever wins this game is going to be Boston's opponent.

And I know the easy thing to say is, well, you're just getting fed to the wolves, who cares? But which of these teams would you be more interested in getting a crack at Boston? The Orlando Magic. The Orlando Magic. Simply because Boston has Brown and Tatum, right? I mean, this is not, you know, We've seen these two guys wreak havoc in the playoffs year after year after year.

But with Paolo and Franz, you can sort of say to yourself, you know what? Maybe we can go toe to toe with these two great wings with our two great wings. I guess you'd call it Paolo a power forward. So that's why, and it's just the Orlando's defense and the way they force turnovers and just get after it defensively. It can really sort of muck it up. And I think they're better built for a playoff matchup against the Celtics. but like I said before in the east

whoever comes out of these playing whatever's are there just logs into the wood chipper that are the cabs in the Celtics and the West I feel like it's a little bit too I think you're right look interestingly enough both of these teams have had

some success Atlanta more than Orlando against Boston but you know that you're kind of with losing Jalen Johnson like they had these wings that actually like, you know, they threw a bunch of long wings. You either shoot Jalen Johnson, DeAndre Hunter, and, you know, and Reese Shea and these kind of guys.

Like, they have had some decent games against the Celtics in the past, but I don't know. I don't think it really matters. I mean, it's probably a little more fun series if Trey Young pulls off a win by himself or two wins by himself, something crazy like that in Boston. and he could make all of Boston Furious, much like he did New York, furious once upon a time. I will say it's probably a little bit better if we were to get Orlando winning this game

so that they're the matchup for Boston because we're going to watch Boston anyway. And I'm thinking about it through the prism of the other series, which is, I mean, I got it. It took a long time, but I watched Orlando. play Cleveland last year. I mean, I joked last year that NBA.com did all of these, like, recaps for all of the

games, like that I would read after all of them. Like, whoever was on site would write this in-depth recap about the series. There was like a series page and you could just go to it every day. There wasn't even a page for Cavs Magic last year. Like, you could go back and listen to last year's pods and I'm like, I kept. searching and searching. There's not even a page for this. Like they're putting the game on like Discovery Channel. This is crazy. I think just in terms of watchability, like Tray Young versus Cleveland would probably get a little more juice because, you know, Boston we're going to watch no

matter what. It's interesting that, you know, because I forgot about that stretch. I think it was like in December before Christmas when the Hawks beat like the Cavs and the Celtics. I know. The Hawks have some, like, big wins, because we always talk about our teams, the Grizzies and the Knicks, that have no sort of, like, signature wins. But the Hawks have put up some wins against the Celtics and the Cavs. So maybe they would be a better series than Orlando, but I just think Orlando's identity and defensive identity would be helpful. And the thing that sort of bothers me about this game, this evening, and the Orlando season, is we talk so much about the oblique injuries with Wagner and Vancaro, but it's the lack of Suggs.

Because with Suggs on Young, you have a shot. shot. You know what I mean? It's like it's and then with Suggs in a in a potential cab series, you can put him on one of their guards. But I just feel like without Suggs, uh, like, you know, Cole Anthony and Anthony Black and and I think they're going to have a tough

time with Young. It was nice to see Suggs last night. Glad to see he's getting out and around when his, uh, girlfriend Haley Van Litt got. I didn't know that was his girlfriend. I didn't know until yesterday. I was like, good for you, Jalen Sugs. Good for you. Good for you. So he was there with supporting his girlfriend, Haley Van Liff,

who got drafted by the Chicago Sky, has got a team back up with Angel Reese. Grizzlies Warriors. Okay. So let's start with, and I get to come by this honest, because I told you this long ago. Last thing I want to see is the Clippers.

So trust and believe on Sunday, when this is all playing out, and you kind of know the fate of the grizzlies that they're going to be playing in a play-in tournament, you have this game or play-in game. They have this game against the Clippers and the Warriors, and it's all coming down to this, and it's going to decide your opponent.

Interestingly enough, you've got the final round of the Masters going on. The Grizzlies are playing literally nobody versus literally nobody against the Dallas Mavericks. In a day game on Sunday afternoon. So I'm down at that game. We do the post game show. As the post game show is going on, there's a TV up in the side, and that game is now going to overtime.

So we don't know who the opponent is going to be by the time we even get off of the air. But when I tell you, I couldn't have rooted harder for the Clippers. Now, this could very well be careful what you wish for, famous last words. But because who knows if Memphis is going to beat Golden State. But I know for certain they would not have beaten. the clippers, right? That is like bad matchup supreme, grown men, men against boys, like all the stuff that you want to talk about. Whereas with the Warriors, you know, Jimmy got dinged up in that game. So who knows on that. And I just watched these two teams play. You and I chronicled this on

the mismatch about a week and a half ago where I watched a game where Memphis was up by two points with 3.30, I'm sorry, they're up by four, with 3.30 left in the game and then got run out the rest of the way. It's a game where Steph Curry hit 12 threes and had 52 points. It's a game where Jimmy Butler had 27 and 6 and 4. It was a game where Draymond Green had a triple double. And it's like, I mean, I just watched them play this game. And you can tell me if I'm nuts here. But I'm watching this game play out and I'm going, look, Curry had 52. Butler was unbelievable.

Draymond had a triple double. And you were still up four with 3.30 left. Like, to me, that makes you hopeful that in a one-game situation, you might be able to pull it off. because while Memphis has not beaten any good teams in forever, they still have their big three that can go up against the Warriors big three. Morant, they don't really have a great answer for him. They played Moody on him the last time, and he had 36. And so,

Am I? Memphis has a big three? We're putting Desmond Bay. What are you talking about? What are you talking about? We're putting Desmond Bay is one of the best shooting guards in the NBA. Okay. What are you talking about?

I just never really considered Memphis as a big three team, but we'll let you have that today. You know what? I apologize because I don't respect your basketball opinion on most things. But when it comes to the Memphis Grizzlies, I do definitely respect your opinion. Okay? And I will say this because I was getting ready for this game tonight. I started looking at the matchups because I remember that 52 point game. It was a huge game.

I think it was on a Sunday. It was just like everybody watched it. And it was a great game. as an objective basketball fan. But I also remember this, tell me about this game, because I don't remember this one as well. When Steph Curry had two points in like 25 minutes, and the Grizzlies had 144 and just like blew him out the building,

what happened in that game? And then I look again, like Steph has like, he had that 52, but he also had like 13 and 2 against the Grizzlies, which makes me feel that, again, it was pre-Butler, right? But what happened in that game? I mean, look, as I've said many times, there's always those games that take place throughout the year where it's like one team's got it and the other one doesn't and it's a perfect storm and they jumped on top of them very, very quickly in that game and then the rest of the situation. By the way, lowest plus minus in the history of the game, I believe, for Draymond Green in that game.

and so that was a good one to put on his resume. Look, they played great against them, and they have had, you know, this is also not the type of team. Like when I was talking about the clippers, the clippers have like too many wings. Like, right? Like they can, they've got 50 guys.

They could throw on Moran. And the same way I talk to you about when the grizzlies played against the Knicks, what you don't want is somebody be able to deploy the lewd dorts, the Macalbrews, which is the whoever, the OGN and Obes, whoever against you, and that way it makes, and be able to hide Jalen Brunson in the corner on Luke Kinnard or Vince Williams or whoever, right?

Like, because of the roster construction, the warriors don't have that. The other thing is, you know, they just played a must-win game that they lost. and I couldn't believe the stories after. Like I thought Camingo was like he must have been unavailable. He wasn't unavailable. Like, Curtis didn't play him.

And so now that leads to tonight, again, that you feel kind of like a must win because there is a huge goal between being able to play Houston and being able to play Oklahoma City. That's the point. So you are in a, you're in another must win. And one of your theoretically most significant bench players,

you didn't even play him. So like what kind of, what kind of mindset does, does he come with? Is this a, you know, now I've got a short rope if I make any mistake? Like, I mean, to me, that's somebody you've got to be able to get something out of. So a very strange decision to me to make in that huge Clippers game, especially with playing against a team that's got a bunch of wings, if there was a game that you thought Cominga could help you in, I would have thought that would have been, that would have sufficed.

But who knows? I mean, they just lost the must-win game. Butler got a little banked up. They've played in three different play-in games, and they're 0-3 in those in the past. Like, this is a, this happened a few years ago. Memphis played San Antonio in the 9-10 game and beat them. And then the Warriors lost, I believe it was to the Lakers.

And so this was for the eighth seed a few years back. And Memphis went there and John Morant was the best player on the floor. And they beat them and ended up, I think they, oh yeah, then they got the spot to play Utah. Utah was the number one seed that year. And so then they got that eighth spot. But, I mean, the Warrior season was just done. And so crazy, crazy deal. Maybe I'm talking to something, myself into something that doesn't exist, but I don't hate their chances.

I like this game because if you look at the top two seeds in each conference, you've got the calves and the Celtics in the east, and then you've got the thunder and the rockets in the west. And I would say that the rockets are the most susceptible in a seven-game series of those four teams. I feel like the other three series will not be competitive. But if you are the Grizzlies or the Warriors, and you feel much better about your odds against the Rockets than the Thunder, which makes this game so important for each of those teams. And I feel that the Grizzlies have been a bit overlooked in this

because it kind of felt like after the Warriors lost, it was like, oh, Warriors Rocket Series, here we are. You know what I mean? Let's get ready for it. Emaudoka. Remember he was talking to Steph. And I'm in Thompson, shut down Steph. It's kind of, well, let's let's have them beat the Grizzlies first.

I think they will, I think the Warriors will win the game. Their favorite to win the game by seven points. But I think it'll be more competitive than most. I think it's going to be a great game tonight. I'm excited about it. Well, it could very well be a shootout because these teams have been at the play shootouts in the past. And we just saw one a week and a half ago where. Or it could be a grenade throwing contest.

It could be, maybe it's not a shootout. It might be just like a grenade throw. Well, I made Steph Curry of 52 in the last one. I will say this. If you want to talk about being due, the Grizzlies are 0 for 8 in the state of California this year. That's right. You're either 0 for 9 or do you finally get one, right? Should be fun, though.

It should be a fun game. And it makes for good entertainment. We've got two play-in games tomorrow night, and I know you love the 9-10 games. I hate these. I hate these games. What do you mean? I don't even want to talk about them on the mismatch right now. I hate these four teams.

I hate these games. There's no reason to have them. It's just silly to me. It's like the, it's, like, especially the, the kings and the Mabs. The MAPs. I'll say this. I do think whoever loses these games tonight, whoever loses them.

So that meaning either the loser, the loser of Atlanta and Orlando, and the loser of Memphis versus Gold. and State, I do think that these not, whoever wins these nine, ten games tomorrow night, I do think that you've got to be really scared because they all do have players. The kings have firepower. The kings have firepower.

They all, all of them have players that could be the best player on the floor in one game. Again, you're in a one game scenario. And so the idea that Ty, who on the Bulls? Who on the Bulls could be the best best? Guy, getting. Where have you been?

Can Jacoby White? Josh Giddy. Where have you been for the last two months? Josh Giddy has been like one of the best players in the league. Guys, like averaging a triple double. He has. Ask the Lakers about him. Josh Giddy is a problem.

He is a real problem. And for sure, Anthony Davis. And for sure, like, Zach Levine. And I've seen the 38-point Tyler Hero night. Like, I mean, I'm just saying, in a one game, If you're just playing them for one game, they all at least sometimes these are just total fed to the wolves teams. But I think you've really got to be puckered up if you lose these games and you're having to face whoever wins those. Because while everybody else from those teams on down just basically punted on their seasons, like that's the situation we're in.

There's nobody that like almost got the tan. everybody pretty much. I think the Blazers would be the closest, but like, yeah, they weren't being very competitive. And Phoenix was in there until about a week and a half left, right? But if you're the warriors, it gets perilous really quickly. If you're the war,

let's imagine whatever happens tonight. Let's just say, I don't predict this, but let's say the Grizzlies win. And then you're the warriors and you're looking at a matchup with, let's just say the kings. And then you're like, wait a second,

we were in overtime against the clippers. and James Hardin scored 10 points in overtime to beat us in a very close game where Draymond missed a layup. And next thing you know, you're looking at Zach Levine and Demar DeRosen and Sabonis in a winner go home game. Like you could go from overtime to a guaranteed playoff spot to winner go home very quickly in the course of like four days. Well, interestingly enough for poor Nico Harrison,

watch it from the tunnel. You know, Sabonis was a real nemesis for, for Anthony Davis when he was in LA. Like, he's, he's not the kind of, that whole like brute force kind of player has been a bitch for Anthony Davis in the past now. But if, if I told you that either of those two guys had monster games for one game, it wouldn't shock you. I mean, these are great players, both Sabonis and Davis. And as you were talking about, you've got some of these guys on the, on the, on the perimeter as well.

I just feel like I actually think, I know you, you don't care about this game. I actually think that Dallas and Sacramento could be very interesting because I'm going to watch them. Their winner go home games. I got. The stakes is what makes anything good. Like there's real stakes to this. Somebody is done. Like their whole season is over when they lose these games.

And so no matter what the situation is, if you tell me that one team gets to keep on fighting and maybe make the playoffs and the other team is just done, then I'm going to be interested in it. Plus, I mean, Sacramento, it's going to be sub bonus in there fighting for every rebound amongst three guys. Like Dallas is all this size. And Sacramento has one guy. One guy. One guy over 6-8. He's fighting, just fighting for his life for every rebound. I actually think it would be pretty good.

The other matchups that were set up, so we got to give our, we got to give our instant reactions to what has been set up, because as we mentioned, those play-in games, those are going to decide the other matchups. Oh, by the way, before we move on, what's best possible scenario in terms of the matchups? Like if you could pick it and we get this team is going to play. So we talked about seeing who Cleveland and Boston would play.

How about if you picked a opponent for Oklahoma City and you picked an opponent for Houston? Well, the first thing I think about is this podcast, The Mismatch, right? So I'm going Houston Golden State and Grizzlies Thunder because you

all year long it's a disaster all year long you have been talking about how the young teams don't win on the playoffs and how the Oklahoma City Thunder they haven't proven anything

they've won one series as a group and we're already penciling them into the NBA final. It doesn't apply. You've been saying it all year long, Verneau. But beating the, beating the Grizzlies does not apply to that. What do you mean? What do you mean? Put in your, put in your hearing aids. Beating the Grizzlies does not apply to that. Sounds like someone's backing off there a year long.

Philosophical citing Hubie Brown. I need somebody. teams never winning the playoffs. They're making it the breakout clip and putting it on Instagram. How many players does Memphis have 30 or older? I'm going to say one. Zero. That's not beating a veteran team. Okay.

Like, why do I have to explain things like you're six years old? If you are a older veteran team. Okay, look. So, look, and I promise you this, beating Memphis, beating any of these teeth, it's not that big of a deal. Okay. What happened to the big three? Well, let's get to the Clippers in round two. Hey, no, you beat the Clippers in round two.

Now we're talking. Now I'm wrong. Now I'm wrong. Okay. I'm wrong if they lose to the Clippers in round two. Or Denver, for that matter. That's about to say, it might not be the Clippers. But yeah, yeah.

It's going to be the Clippers. Oh. Yeah, that Denver team, come on. What are you talking about? He just fired their coach. As I'm prepping everything, it's just like, I just feel like that that's the one. We'll get to it. But that's the series.

That's the series. That's the series where I'm just like, oh, man. Like, am I really going to pick against Yokic? Am I going to pick against a guy that averages a 30 point triple double? You know what I'm going to do that? Trust and believe. And here's, look, trust and believe. A quiet letter to the team.

You know what? And you constantly say that you have a dark heart. I do. But good grief. I mean, that is dark. The last thing, or that is my nightmare. I know what would happen in an Oklahoma City Memphis series, Jacoby. Oh, yeah.

I'm aware. Oh, yeah. And I don't think Memphis would score 80 points in game on that, I swear. We, I'm, all right, I'm going to divulge to you. On our group text, there is a real. real argument of if we lose tonight to the Golden State Warriors, would you rather lose and keep the pick? Oh, not just the pick.

It's just more just the vibes of just getting swept by Oklahoma City and losing game four at home. And that's your season after firing the coach like three weeks ago. Like that's your season after being the two seed? Also, they gave up their first round pick in the Marcus Smart deal. Oh, that's right. So you want to keep the pick. Oh, that's...

I am on the opinion. I just want to play in the playoffs no matter what. Of course. You want to win games. You want to lose to the Mavericks and have a season end. That would be... I am of the opinion you want to win because you're always an ankle turn away. Now, if you're playing Oklahoma City, you might be three ankle turns away.

A lot of ankles to turn. What? You might need a plane to go down. We need a staircase to collapse. But other than that, let's just look, we're going to focus on tonight. That's what needs to happen. But you're a real dick for wanting that to happen to me. Oh, I love for that to happen.

I would love for that to happen. Look, I never made the case that I made the case that Oklahoma City has to go through what Memphis went through, which is take your, take your scars. Oh, I thought Memphis was a young team. You were just talking about how everyone's under 30. They are a young team. Oh, okay, okay. What are you talking about?

But now they have scars. So they're scarred up young team. That's what we're doing? Correct. Okay. Okay. You don't, look, how many scars did Boston have before they won it last year? You tell me?

How many, how many scars did the Nuggets have before they won it? I mean, look, I hate that I am the only. person that gets to tell people about the history of the NBA in the media because everybody seemingly forgets every single year that veteran teams win. And then we get to the spot and everybody does it all over again and then a veteran team wins. It's always full grown men. That's who wins the title every year. Every year. It's not young teams. They don't win the title. So if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. And this will be the outlier in the 75 plus years of NBA history.

But my bet is that, you know, the young team will have to get some more scars before it's their time. This episode is brought to you by Walmart. Life gets busy and we could all use an extra hour or save one. With Walmart Express delivery, you can do just that. Simply place your order in as fast as an hour, it's at your door. Use promo code Express for free delivery on your first order. No hassle, no stress, just more time for what matters most. Visit Walmart.com to order now.

Promotion valid with first express delivery order. $50 minimum, subject to availability, restrictions apply. The mismatch is brought to you by Fanduel. We're coming down to the stretch of the NBA season. We've got the play-in set. We've got some playoff match-up set. This is the best time of the year. And the best place to get in on the action for all the best games is Bandwool,

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Before we get into the first reactions to the playoff matchups that are set, a couple big things that have happened to the teams that have already been eliminated. David Griffin gone in New Orleans. And Shams is reporting as we are recording this that Joe Dumars is going to be taking over. So he's going to be run New Orleans. And, you know, typically what takes place, whenever somebody new comes in, the worst situation of all of that is obviously taking place in Dallas. But when somebody comes in and they want to be responsible for it, they want their own guys, right?

I didn't draft these guys. I'm not responsible for this roster. And so the level of cleaning out deciding who to build around there is something that we cannot know yet. Like who is, is Joe Dumar is going to look at this and go, this is a Zion operation? And I've got to build out around Zion. Is he going to look at it and go, I've got Zion, I've got Murphy, I've got Herb Jones, I've got, and then the rest of it I'm going to, I don't know. I don't, the identification of what is the core in New Orleans and what is the,

how you're going to build that out is going to be super fascinating. I think it's like one of those flow charts. And I think the first question, the second you get into that office is, are we trading Zion? Are we keeping Zion? Is this a Zion franchise for the next five years? And if yes, then, all right, so how do we best maximize Zion? Let's just hope that he's healthy. And that's the bet we're going to make.

We're going to gamble on Zion being available and healthy. So let's build a team that maximizes our star, former number one pick. Zion Williamson. If the answer is, yes, we're going to trade Zion, then it's like, all right, what's our timeline? And what is C.J. McCollum doing here? You know what I mean? Right.

And is this like an E. Misi, Herb Jones, Tray Murphy, kind of like defensive Thunder Rockets 2.0 thing that's supposed to be good in 2027? That's really the question to me. Is this the Zion team? let's sort of like let's let's get everything we can for mccullum and zion and sort of restart this whole thing it also may be very dependent in fact i think crucially dependent on where that draft pick lands you know if you if you hit the lottery and you win that thing it's a different deal if you got you know what i mean and if your picks a little bit lower because i believe i had to

check on this where they are in the in the odds they They are fourth. They're four. They're four. So it's 13, 13, 39, right? Is that how it goes? Yeah. So they're, I mean, look, they're, they got the fourth best odds in order to, and so.

And this is, I want to say this isn't like the Wemby draft where I think everyone's calling this like the Cooper flag lottery, but there's a, there's a few impactful players. And I think it's not, it's not just like number one or you kind of missed out. And that's a, and that's a fascinating thing. The reason I say that is because, you know, when you're talking Ace. Bailey and you're talking about these, you know, Dylan Harper and you're talking about Cooper Flack, whatever. Like, those guys are not on the same timeline as Zion.

No. Right? And so it's going to be fascinating to see how they build out. Let me just ask you this. Let's just say they don't get the number one pick, right? So they get the top four pick, okay? Let's say you're Joe Dumars. Trading Zion.

Trading Zion. Trading Zion. Done. The first thing I'm doing. You would be done with that era and start over. I'm done. Yeah. And get the maximum amount of hope that he moved up.

I will say this. Somebody will have talked themselves into Zion over these last two months. Because he looked, I mean, he had the frigging fire hose vein running down his arm, looked in the best shape of his life, and was killing. He was killing. My brother, my co-host, Christopher. Theodore Venatius Vernon said he was out on Zion into a microphone, said, I'm out and I'm never coming back.

There is nothing this man can do to ever bring me back. No. And then two months later, you're like, I think I'm back in on. But then he had a better weight loss journey than Lizzo and I'm back in. I saw Lizzo the other night and I was like, wow, Lizzo? Does the league test for OZempic? Yeah, I know. Is how much, there's a league test for Wagoe?

Is that what Bobby Pornis was doing? it would be super funny if the guy played like 75 games next year and i mean i would love to watch those with david griffin and him be like six years like i tried to build around this for six years and so it's going to be fascinating look the joe dumar's taking over is super fascinating and you don't know how. And the fact that he is like an old school NBA basketball player makes it more interesting. Because if there's anybody that resents guys that don't play, it's old school NBA basketball players, right? You're much more likely to have like just a guy, you know, somebody that, you know, grew up in like law firms and grew up in front offices, you know, on the analytical.

side, those guys are probably a little more apt to put up with it than the guys that were actual NBA players that played in playoffs and NBA finals and, you know, played with all kinds of bumps and bruises their entire careers. They don't, they don't, they roll their eyes at the new generation that has to sit out all the time. Of course. Well, the first thing Joe Dunmore is going to do is trade for Kevin Durant. I'm not predicting. that. That would be a very bad decision to make. Well, look, speaking of Kevin Duran, he's going to have a different coach no matter what,

and it might tie in to what happens in New Orleans. Interestingly enough, I was going through some of like the son's blogs and reports and about like no, who could be the next coach. Like I was just looking at, like, who are they saying? Oh, I haven't really looked.

Yeah, and there's some of these names that come up, like Jared Dudley comes up. Some of the like the longtime assistants, like Dudley's obviously got a big son's connection. Steve Nash. Boy, imagine if LeBron lost another co-host. And that Sam Cassell, who's been a long-time assistant, obviously there are these

fired coaches and Taylor Jenkins and Michael Malone. But one name that came up because of the relationship with, and it said the relationship with Ishpia and the relationship with Devin Booker was Willie Green. Oh, interesting. So if there is a house cleaning that goes on in New Orleans and Dumars brings in his selected coach that maybe Willie Green could end up on the sidelines in Phoenix. I mean, look,

obviously, at this point, and now that you have said, this is a Devin Booker operation, you better figure out somebody that Devin Booker's going to be happy with, right? Did you see Devin Booker was asked about playing in the final game of the regular season? And his quote, and I, listen,

I'm known for reading way too much into quotes and reading in between the lines and between the lines, in between the lines and between the lines. But his answer to playing in that game was, you have to be a real Sons fan to be at that game. It could be your first time seeing me, or it could be your last time seeing me. After the year they've had,

after the last game of the season, he was asked about playing in the final game, and he said it could be the last time seeing me. Now, they've made it pretty clear that, like, I think everybody knows Durant's going to be somewhere. else. They're going to pray that Brad Beale can be somewhere else. And they've decided they want it to be a Devon Booker operation. Bradbill, no trade clause is the funniest thing in the MPA right now. I mean, the craziest thing, the craziest thing is the original sin is that when they fired Monty Williams

and they brought in Winn now Frank Vogel and then they did it again with Winnow Mike Boodenholzer, right? Like they didn't like, I don't know. Like that I think at first, I remember Simmons talking about this. And I believe the guy's now the coach at BYU. But the assistant coach, like Simmons said, look, this is who they're going to hire in Phoenix. And then they like kind of at the last minute, somebody convinced Ish me to hire Frank Vogel. Like that this guy, the assistant coach, I think was Kevin Young. He was the Booker pick.

He's the guy he wanted. And then they brought in Frank Vogel. Obviously, that turned out very poorly. Then they brought in Boudanthor. That turned out very poorly. And so it's interesting to see if we are going to, you know, how many of these guys are going to be filtered out? You know, we just saw Michael Malone.

We've seen Boudinosa. I mean, these guys are tight. These guys, but those guys have titles. You know what I mean? They have titles. Monty Williams was in the NBA finals with a chance to win it before Yonis-Ducco had

50-something points against them. You know, I mean, well, I also think the coach Bud won was interesting to me because they're down in the net series and just, myself included, I was just assuming he was fired. You know what I mean?

Because they were trending towards losing that series the famous Kevin Durant foot in the line series. And I was assuming that Coach Bud was gone and they would replace him with someone new. And then he wins the title. So that gives him a little more time. And that gives him the opportunity to coach in Phoenix. And now he's getting paid $10 million a year for three more years.

If the next Phoenix coach gets a five-year deal, I don't even know. And I think what they'd remember about Matt Ishbia that people forget is, I think it was, wasn't he, like, did he, like, wrestle over the ball with Yokic, like the day he bought the team? It was like the day he bought the team, and it was like wrestling over the basketball with Nicola Yokic. I mean, but you think about like, you go back in time, and it ain't that long ago that they're in that NBA finals.

Oh, yeah. And now you fast forward, and it's like, what the, like, DeAndre Aiton, like Tumani Kamara, right? Like, now it's turned into a real player. Miguel Bridges is playing for the Knicks. Like, you go back in time, and it's like, damn, man, they really. really screwed this up. Like, you had,

you had some young talent, you had some players and I think it's important when you talk in the microphones for a living that you're like honest with your own opinions. And I'm just going to sit here and not lie and say, I thought this team was pretty good going into the season. To be honest. Me too.

I was like, Devin Booker, Kevin Durant. I was like, Brad Bill. I was like, who's going to stop them? I was like,

this offense is going to be like a top four offense in the league. Also, also decent job working around the edges. Grayson Allen can knock down threes. They added Tyos Jones, who they needed a point card. And it's like, this is a debacle. I was looking at this team like contender in the West. Contender in the West. If they were the number one seed, you have to be honest about the way you felt before you watched it all happen.

If they were the number one seed in the Western Conference, I would not have been shocked at all. And now they're not even competing for the 10th. end spot, and it hasn't just been health. A lot of times when this happens, it's like, oh, you know, such and such was out, this person was out. You know, Durant did have a stretch where we missed like 19 games or 15 games or something, but, man, this team is terrible.

Terrible. Do you think this should hang on Durant in some way? Don't you think that we all love, we all love Kevin Durant so much. That's the problem. No, everybody loves him. That's a tough question. Though he has been intensely sensitive over the course of his career and act,

sometimes like a martyr like everybody doesn't like him. In fact, the complete opposite is true. And I think that if this were another all-time great, right? Like, you are responsible for that locker room and keeping this thing on track. We can't just keep blaming Frank

Vogel and Mike Boonehose. No, don't forget that. I also, I made excuses for Kevin Durant in every single stop. Honestly, I made excuses for him in Oklahoma City. I made excuses for him in Golden State. I felt like they didn't treat him right, and that's why he left. And then In Brooklyn, I blamed Kyrie.

I blamed James Hardin. And then he goes to Phoenix. And I blame the coach. And I blame Bradley Beal. And I blamed Evan Booker. And I never turned my blame lasers at Kevin Durant. But there's only so many times where you can just say, well, it's everybody else's fault. You know?

And there is, like you said, you are an all-time great. You are the leader of the team. You've got to lead the team to wins. We're supposed to win because of you. We're supposed to win because we have you. That's why we're supposed to. to win games. Well, and also this whole, and they also like, dude, it is your responsibility to hold it

all together when things start going. Like you are, you've been in the league for a long time. You're a veteran. And it's like, they can sit there and say, well, no, it's his team, it's his team. Like, I mean, you're the guy. Like, I brought you in here. Like, you're, we're one of the best players to ever walk the face of the earth. You have to take ownership over this.

You have to take ownership over this. You look at all of these teams and tell me who their best player is, and then I'll tell you what that locker room's like. It's the way it goes. That's the way it goes. Because they're not letting that thing go the wrong way in many cases. And so, I mean, look, it's going to be, he won't be there anymore. Like the whole Phoenix, Kevin Durant thing is going to go down as such a bizarre footnote. What was the Brooklyn?

What was the Brooklyn Kevin Durant thing? Well, that's going to go down. But that footnote's going to go on on, unrealized potential and a foot on the line. Like, that will be the footnote of that. And no, there'll be a lot of COVID stuff too. And vaccines and Kyrene. Yeah, like all that stuff.

Like, that was really messy. That it could have been different. Yeah. Yeah, that one could have been different. This one, there's no like, man, it could have been different if. And I don't know where he's going to go. I mean, I like Houston for him, but I don't know. I don't even know the list of teams.

We'll talk about it in the offseason, but like, I don't know. We'll get there. Let's talk about these matchups. Yeah, yeah, okay. So we got Cleveland, who doesn't have their opponent. They're going to start on Sunday. You got Boston who doesn't have their opponent who starts on Sunday. Nix.

Yeah, you requested this. Yeah. You requested this. So be careful what you wish for, Mr. Jacoby. be careful what you wish for. Listen, I'm a die-easy Knicks fan, and I've been down on this Knicks team all season long, and I'm preparing for this series,

and I'm very confident about the Knicks in this series. You know what's going to be interesting? I'm very confident about the Knicks in the series. Okay, I will say this. Does it concern you at all? After we had seen just maybe a week and a half ago, Amman Thompson make life an absolute living hell for Steph Curry in the game that both of us watched,

And we were. Does he have a twin brother? And there is a smallish point guard in New York. Right in my notes. I saw Thompson will give Brunson problems. And problems is in all caps and bolded. It's tough. It's tough.

I don't, dude, do you think this is quick? Yeah. It feels like at least six. No. You don't think the Knicks handle business. You think the Knicks are going to wipe them. I do. I feel very confident.

This is one of those tips preparing for the team. It was a great story, but it's a young team who like maybe they catch a game three on their home floor because they haven't been in the playoffs in 20 years or whatever. We've all seen the game four one, the game four wins. No, game three. It's game three. Oh, it's game three? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

The first, no, first home game. Oh, okay. Well, it's typically first home game. And then the other teams. like, okay, now we need to take care of business so we can close it out in five. Yes. I feel it's that kind of serious. Okay, my initial reaction is it's going to go longer than you think.

I don't think they're going to wipe them. Pick the pistons. Go ahead. I'm not picking. No, no, no. Look, I've got the Knicks, but I don't think it's going to be quick. I think the pistons are going to put up a fight. I think it's, I think the pistons are going to put up a fight literally.

That's what I think. I think the Pistons are going to literally put up a fight. The playoffs are about matchups, and I do think the Pistons have some good matchups in this. That's all I'm saying. Where? I just told you that the guy who has the highest usage rate, and literally you have said a thousand times,

is totally dependent on whether your team wins or loses, is Jalen Brunson, and he's about to have a frigging six-seven condor, you know, draped all over him. it's uh it's very concerning how how brunts and heavy the clutch minutes are for the nicks it's very concerning and it was and this isn't new either it's ever since he got there it was last year it was last i remember a game against the six was last year i think he shot the ball eight straight possessions going going down the stretch also though you were very down on the opportunity uh for

Wolf's fans to watch Julius Randall in high stakes games, I would imagine I will speak on behalf of Wolf's fans enjoy playoff cat because you're about to see you're about to see how much you love it.

It's so great because Julius Reynolds would play well lately. It's like you guys have no idea what's about to happen. It's like it's one thing if he was just kind of like mediocre all year long and then disappointed you in the playoffs. But then to have this little mini peak at the end of the regular season, that's what really sets you up for the Julius Randall disappointment.

This is just, this is a perfect Randall season for the, the Walsh fans to get the full Randall experience. Because you're only going to get one year Julius Randall after he flames out in the playoffs. I do not doubt that they are saying the same thing about you, like, oh, this sucker, he thinks he's fine. I mean, I was never a cat fan. Just because, no, let me say.

Don't do it now. No, this is what I say. This is what I say. say, as I was never a cat fan just because he changed jerseys. It doesn't really change the way I feel about him as a player. But I'll say this about the cat experience in New York City. He has fit

into this team offensively just seamlessly from game one. Like, seamlessly from game one. Here we go. And I'm ready for him to dominate in the playoffs. Well, I mean, listen, what a perfect clip. If your

offensive, if your offensive big is maybe the knock on him that he's a little soft and you're going up against Jaylen Dern and Bees 2. What could possibly go wrong? What could go wrong? What could go wrong? As they say, as they say, Kyle, turn on the TikTok

camera. You just gave us the best clip ever. What could possibly go wrong? What could go wrong? All right. We've got, look, Buck Pacers, which is going to start at noon on Saturday

is, well, one east. Noon for you. Yeah. Yeah, nude for me is, I can't wait for this. Like, I was reading this thing this morning saying that by the time this is done, that these teams will have played at minimum 19 times in the last 18 months. I was like, what in the world? Kind of crazy to think about. And there were so many things like when I was reading the previews that I had forgotten about,

I was there in Vegas, when Tyrese Halliburton did the Dane Time thing. And I remember that. But for whatever reason, I forgot that when they played again, Janice had the 64 points and there was ballgate. Did they argue over the ball? Yeah. They were going to give the ball to Oscar Tishibway because he had made his first NBA basket or whatever. And he got all pissy about it.

Look, Tyrese Halliburton, here's something to watch for when this one starts. And obviously, we'll be able to talk about it at length on Friday. But the Pacer started out the season, 10 and 15. He was averaging 17 points, 8 assists, shooting 42%. And they were five games under 500. In the last 56 games, of which they won 39 of them. So they were 39 and 17 in their last 56 game, He's averaged 19.2 points, 9.6 assists, and 50% from the field.

The Pacers did lose three out of four to the bucks this year. But Halliburton this year, when he scores 20 points, here's something to keep an eye up for. They are 25 and 3 when Tyree's Halliburton scores 20. And they were also 15 and 3 at home post-all-Star break. This feels like if the bucks don't get Damian Liller back, it is very, very difficult to pick them to be able to win. I'm not a doctor. I don't know anything about blood clots,

but I don't understand what's happening with Damian Lillard. Well, they also say travel can't fly on a plane, but I can't fly on a plane but might be available in the series. I don't know what this is. It kind of feels like football where they're just kind of like lying about someone's availability just to make the other team prepare for them. You know what I mean? Because I just can't, I don't know.

I'm not a doctor. I don't know anything about blood. I did watch the pit, though. Great show. But I don't know anything about blood clots. But this is just an odd injury experience for Dame right now. Yeah, because the only one that ever seems hopeful is Doc Rivers saying, like, you know, we're still kind of. Can't get in a plane.

Maybe I'll get the John Madden bus. I've got my fingers crossed. Yeah. To be for Indiana and Milwaukee, not that far. So maybe you can drive. I don't know. They're not that far. But my instant reaction is that this, especially given how great the Pacers have been at home post All-Star Break,

this one could very well come down to who has home court advantage in it, especially to take control of the series. And also, if it happens to go seven games, you catch that one on your home floor. So my instant reaction is that I've been much higher on the Pacers, though the Bucks did end the season on a very good streak. and Janus has been absolutely dominant. I'm excited for this one. I really don't know, but my instant reaction was this is going to be a bridge too far for the for the bucks if they don't have Willard. It is tricky. I didn't realize this.

The bucks shot the best from three point any team. There's 38.7 percent. Best in the league. I was pretty surprised by. Gary Trick Jr. I was pretty surprised by that. Derry, don't get Derry Bird. But they get wide open threes because you have to collapse on it.

I mean, it is one of those things. I'll say this is a tough one to pick, but I could see the Pacers winning. And then I could see the offseason being about what are the bucks going to do? Because there's a lot of like, if they go out in the first round to the Pacers, it's one thing you lose in the first round, you know, to the heat and Janus is hurt and Jimmy Butler, just scoring 40 a game. but losing in the first round with Janus again. Am I crazy? Hey, you know, well, and obviously we project forward. Am I crazy to feel like the Pacers would have a better crack at beating the cabs?

The Pacers have been playing well lately. It's, yeah, I think. Boy, that could be a fun series to watch. I mean, well, Mowgli and Janus would be fun too. Oh, I got it. I've just been so down on the bucks. Just bad. vibes.

Yeah. I just, I didn't like the vibe all year. But even with Dame. I know. I just didn't like it. I'd never like the, they,

as I told you, before even the Dame loss, I said on the mismatch, it's just been like a joyless experience of which I have just been stunned by. Like, I just never expected this wouldn't be super fun. All right.

So those are, those are going to be starting on Saturday. Oklahoma City and Houston, both going to start on Sunday. Wolves Lakers? Now this is this is prime time Literally prime time

It's 830 Eastern on Saturday night Oh much fun Oh my God I mean Luca versus LeBron I'm sorry Luca and LeBron versus Ant I mean it feels like Ant's gonna have to Absolutely stand on his head in this though

Well I had Listen I just can't see a world in which the Lakers Lakers lose the series I can't see it I just can't see it I really can't see it. I mean, I have the Lakers in this one.

I feel strongly about it. And I think that I was on the Chris Vernon show one time in Memphis. And I had a take so hot that they put it on social media before I even got out of the chair. And it was, it's just look back. Look back at Anthony Edwards final five games of the playoffs last year. Because we all remember him going up toe to toe with Durant. And we remember, you know, the start of the Denver series. But that Mavs series, he didn't shoot 50%.

He didn't shoot over 50% in the last five games in the play. In fairness, it is the Western Conference Finals. And he is the one guy that you are attempting to make life hell on. Yeah. So give him a little bit of a break on this. Well, again, that might be the problem is they have one guy that you make life hell on. And the Lakers have three. you know.

Sounds like somebody forgot about Julius Randall already. Playoff Randall. Yeah. Hey, by the way, revenge against the Lakers, a former Laker, Julius Randall. Oh, that's fair. Yeah. Yeah. Yep.

And I will say this. They also have big size, right? Like, we're going to see if the Lakers just go five small and make it impossible to play go bare. But, like, there are going to be times where whether it's Nas, what, I mean, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, are one of the few teams because they've got McDaniels, because they've got Alexander Walker, because they, like, they can, they can be big too. They can be big too. And so there's going to be a lot of, there's going to be a lot of six, eight and taller out on that floor. And a lot of times, you know, between those two teams in a way that you do not see with a lot of teams. The Clippers kind of fall into that category, too, where you can watch them and you're like, damn, man, everybody's tall. You're like, Derek Jones Jr. out there too? Yeah, right.

Everybody. And then they bring it 611 Ben Simmons off the bench. It's like, what in the world? I mean, I love McDaniels. I think this will be a big series for McDaniels. For the Timberwolves to be successful, he's going to have to really stand up in front of LeBron and or Luca and have an impact on the defensive side.

I think that that's like a really, really big one. And I think to your point, everybody says like, oh, the Lakers don't have a big, but they're big across the board. Well, guess what? Timberwolves are too. Tim Wolves are being across the board, too. I know. I think it's going to be a great series.

I do. I just can't see a world in which... But the wolves have played great over the last like 15, 20 games. They have... But they're not playing LeBron and Luca in a playoff environment. I got you. I got you. I'm telling you.

They did make it to the Western Conference Finals last year. They did. They did beat Nicolioch on his home floor. On his home floor in a game seven. So, I mean, they do have some bonifides here, right? They do. They proved to us last year that they can be a real playoff team. I think this will be a very difficult series for, for Ant.

I think it's going to be tough. I think that the Lakers defense is going to key on him. I think he's going to try to shoot his way out of it. And I think that it's not going to go well for him. I could be wrong. All right. I think it's going to be a long series. And then Clippers Nuggets.

Look, I gave my opinion on this one. No idea. I don't. I don't like the Nuggets chances. But you're putting a Quay-Letard, you know? I got it. I mean, look, I know this. Clippers won 13 to their last 14 at home, and the one loss was a two-point loss to Oklahoma City.

Damn. Like, that team has been cracking. I know. And, I mean, look, we very well make it look up, and it's like, is this a lot of? going to come down to Derek Jones Jr. and Chris Dunn open threes. Yeah, it is. I know, but look, Derek Jones Jr.

passed a test for Dallas last year. Well, it's all going to be, there's be Christian Brown threes on the other side, too, you know? I got it, but I mean, they have, like, they got wings on wings. And again, if this is the Kauai Leonard that, if the Kauai Leonard that we've gotten recently is the Kauai Leonard we get, he's able to stay on the floor, I think the clippers are just so intensely dangerous.

The more I think about it and the more I look into it, the more I lean towards the clippers. And I also think it's hard for, you know, I think it's hard for, like, they got new coaches there that it's like now it's like, you know, you just went through all of that tumult over the last week. And now it's like, all right, now we're going to prepare for a playoff series. It's like, well, I think there's a lot of attention on like, oh, well, you know, Booth wanted him to play the young guys and he wanted to play the very. veterans. But like I think one thing that we can't look past is one of the reasons that that decision was made was because there was serious problems with the group of people playing for the Nuggets and traveling with the Nuggets. Like there was just real tension and issues and infighting and favoritism and to have a season long of that and then to fire a couple

guys and then to go on a deep playoff run, that seems like a tall task. It seems like a tall task. It seems like it's also It's also literally two teams that have diverged Over the course of the last 20 games Right? Like you can't get Better vibes And better playing going into this situation

Than the Clippers And on the other side The Nuggets, Inability to win games against good teams To the point where they end up firing their coach With three games left But I'm laughing because I'm going to feel like such a fool if I pick the Clippers and James Hart goes two for 15.

Oh, I know. I know. And Colath Leonard comes up lame in the first quarter of game one. And I'm going to be like, what am I doing? You know what I mean? It's like I just, I know I'm going to feel like a fool either way this one goes, which makes it a good series because they're that evenly matched. But like betting against Yokic just seems foolish.

But then betting on a team that doesn't have the right supporting players around Yokic, relying on Russell Westbrook and a brand new head coach and the vibes been bad all year. That seems like a bad decision too. You sound like the guy that's on the hill in Princess Bride. I just watched Princess Bride last weekend. That's my favorite movie ever. Oh, let me tell you. I was like, my wife is like, what do you want to do on your birthday?

And I was like, I'm going to work out, and then I'm going to get a massage. I'm going to go in the sauna and I'm going to steam and I'm going to soak in the pool and then I'm going to eat dinner at flex muscles because I like muscles from this one place and then I'm going to, and the whole family is going to sit on the couch and we're all going to watch the same movie and it's going to be Prince's Bride. There you go. That's what, so the point where he's on the hill and he says, only a fool would put it in my cup, but I am not a fool.

Yeah, that whole bit. Yeah, inconceivable, that guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Before Humperdyke comes up and goes, iodide, I bet my life on it. Right? Like when he's doing the, he's doing the poison trick with Wesley. That's what it is. I can't very well pick this, but I can't very well pick this. That's how you reminded me up. Rewatching that for the first time in like 30 years. I was like, what is going on with this mustache? Like, how did they, how did he go through the whole movie with that terrible mustache? Amazing. Amazing. My dear Wesley. All right. Look, we have time. By Friday, we can change our minds on this stuff.

Official picks Friday. Yes, official picks on Fridays for the playoffs, but we gave our instant reactions to all of this. This is going to be fun. We got playing games Tuesday night, Wednesday night, and then obviously the playoffs are going to begin on Saturday. Before we go, I just want to say this. Yep, go ahead.

I'll be rooting very hard for the gristons this evening. Oh, look how sweet you are. Yes, I bet 20 American dollars on them as well. You told me that you told me earlier. in the show that they're going to lose. Yeah, they're probably going to lose. They're probably going to lose. Yeah, but I'll be rooting for it.

They're probably going to lose. You know that. You are, you have to, this is what's going, you are, the fates will have it that you will have a seven game series against this Oklahoma City team that you have been trashing all year long, that you have been downplaying,

that you've been egging on their fans. Trash, trashy. You hate the Oklahoma's home. How many times are I have to say how awesome they are? You disrespect them every time we get together and then they're going to sweep through your grizzlies. I can't wait. I cannot wait. If you guys can get past the Kings.

I really, I cannot tell if you're, I don't know if you're like bipolar or not. Like I swear, you literally went within 30 seconds to, I'm going to be rooting for the grizzlies. I am. And I hope they win and whatever. And then, and then within 30 seconds, you say, I can't wait for them to play against Oklahoma City Thunder and get swept up. Look, which do you want, bro? Do you want them to win tonight or do you want them to lose and play the Thunder?

Stop, stop playing both sides. Stop being such a fence rider. Come on. I want him to play against the Thunder, I think. Oh, shut up. You're the work. You're the work. It's going to be.

My nightmare. The best thing for the mismatch. My night. No, it's the worst thing ever. I'm quitting. They're going to lose game one by 40. Game 2 by 45. It's going to be the saddest Memphis Arena ever for game three.

No, no. No. John's going to do some new celebrations. By the way, the only reason the celebration thing ever even started is because a stupid Draymond Green. That's the only reason it became a huge deal in the first place because Draymond flipped out to the official and was like, what is he doing? What is he doing?

That's a good. The same guy is that's kicked people in the dick, put people in the sleeper hole. This is the guy that's, he's mortified by Jaws celebration. I mean, if there's any justice in the world, he doesn't get to win. He doesn't get the win. All right. I can't wait. Thank you to our executive producer Jesse Lopez, as always.

And Jacoby, I will talk to you on Friday. Must be 21 and over in present in select states for Kansas. an affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 over and present in D.C. Got a gambling problem? Call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-Help-Help.com. Call 1-88-78-98-98-9-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit MDGamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here.

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