The Mismatch - Early-Season Surprises: Steph Remains Electric, the Feel-Good Raptors, and the Elderly Clippers

Episode Date: November 18, 2025

Verno and Jacoby recap the Monday night slate of NBA action before sharing six early surprises from the season so far. (00:00) Welcome to The Mismatch! (01:56) Jalen Duren fuels the Pistons' 10th straight win (05:00) Multiple Raptors step up to beat the Hornets for their eighth win in nine games (10:08) The Bulls hold off Nikola Jokic and the Nuggets (14:13) Giannis hurt in the Bucks' loss to the Cavs (16:53) Heat survive, as the Knicks can't complete a comeback (20:05) The Sixers rally behind Tyrese Maxey’s 39 points to beat the Clippers (23:31) The Wolves blow out the shorthanded Mavs (28:02) Early-season surprise no. 1: Historical perspective on Willie Green's firing (32:05) Early-season surprise no. 2: How bad the Clippers are (39:26) Early-season surprise no. 3: Steph Curry is still the most exciting player in the NBA at age 37 (43:56) Early-season surprise no. 4: Abundance of star player trade rumors (49:32) Early-season surprise no. 5: The Raptors have the second-best bench in the NBA (52:12) Early-season surprise no. 6: Total Thunder domination and draft assets The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Leave us a message on our Mismatch Voicemail line! [phone] Hosts: Chris Vernon and David Jacoby Producers: Jessie Lopez and Stefan Anderson Social: Keith Fujimoto Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon. And joining me as he does every week from the ringer.com is Dave Jacoby. Jacoby. Verneau, nothing will match last Monday's buzzer-beater after buzzer-beater after buzzer-beater. But we had a good night in the association last night. This was a great night. So I had two TVs going. One had the Monday night football game on because my family's Cowboys fans. And then the other one, my son was in charge. And so we're just flipping from game to game to get. We did it. have a lot of good games and a lot of good endings that were going on last night. And so let's start with outside of the Oklahoma City Thunder and they're 14 and one record and we know how great they are. Who would have guessed that we would be talking on Tuesday, November 18th about

the two hottest things cracking are the Detroit Pistons, the Pissus win again. Pissus win again. This is winning game. And the Toronto Raptors, my Toronto Raptors. You're listening to The Mismatch, presented by Fandul. Fandul now displays your bets directly on your phone's lock screen. And with the latest updates to the live events and player pages, it's never been easier to be part of the game. And Missouri, get excited because Fandul's coming your way December 1st.

Download the Fandual Sportsbook. app now and play your game. Remember, you must be 21 and over and present in select states or 18 and over and present in D.C., Kentucky, or Wyoming. Gambling problem, call 1,800 gambler, or visit RG-dashhelp.com. Call 888-78-9-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. Let's start with the Pistons because this one was crazy. This is when you really have to perk up in a way that you have not perked up before.

and I mean as an NBA fan because we know we look at the standings and we see this Pistons great record that they've got going so far. But then a game like last night where they're playing Indiana. And I know Indiana's record is crap, but they've gotten Emhard back and they've got Matherin back. And Seacom's still in the lineup. So like they're starting and McConnell's back. Like they've gotten their guys back. And you get a 15 point win by the Pistons with no Cade Cunningham. No, no Tobias.

Harris, no Asser Thompson. Like, they're doing it with a starting lineup of Dennis Jenkins, who has been chronicled on the mismatch. It's crazy. Duncan Robinson, Ron Holland, Isaiah Stewart, and Jalen Duren. I mean, it is incredible what's going on there. And it's one of those times where you certainly have to peak, perk up and go, oh, this isn't just a, this isn't just a Cade operation that he's thrown this organization

it on his back and if you got him, you got a chance. Like, there's something special going on there when you can win with that group. I mean, 10 in a row and Duren was just dominant in this one, like absolutely dominant down low. They lead the league in scoring in the paint. They lead the league in dunks. They lead the league in percentage of dunks. Like, they're just getting the ball to the rim and there's nothing you can do about it.

And I absolutely love the way that they look on offense. And this Dennis Jenkins thing is just indicative of sort of this season that they're having. Doesn't seem anyone wearing a business uniform is just going to play over their skis. The Jenkins thing, and we talked about him last week where I put him in my loves, where, you know, the same way that we had talked about Will Richard with the, with the Warriors, it was like, stay ready so you don't have to get ready. And these guys, they dream their whole life and then they're given the opportunity. And again, last night, the guy's got 26 points.

It's crazy. He's got 26. he's had game tying shots. He's had winning plays. Last night he's starting and scoring 26. Like, where do they find this guy? This is the, and for those that missed that last episode, four different colleges,

ends up at Iona with Rick Patino. Patino loves him, takes him to St. John's with him. Last year's playing in the G League. This year, by virtue of the Ivy and other injuries. Like, this is one of those guys. that could have very well never gotten this chance as a two way, right?

But he's gotten it. And now this guy's going to get, like he's going to have an NBA career out of this thing. It's great. Oh, yeah. And it's not, we've all seen sort of like guys have one big night, but he's been consistent.

Since he's gotten in there, he's been consistently scoring 20 points a game. It's really, really impressive. I absolutely love this Pistice team. You know, I was terrified of them in the playoffs last year. And I picked them to do,

well. And I'm not going to start taking a victory lap yet, but I know you're going to take a victory lap because of your Raptors. So why don't you just go ahead. I mean, it's eight of nine, eight of nine last night, game winning block by Scotty Barnes at the rim after, uh, some big Brandon Ingram shots down the stretch. The notorious B.I. Three. That's what my guy Matt Depplin kept saying last night. The notorious B.I. 3. Matt Devlin, who I love, the Raptors, play-by-play voice. Interestingly enough, and you will have situations like this in your life,

I met him when I was an intern for the West Tennessee Diamond Jacks, AA baseball team. And I was the PR, like, assistant. And so in minor league baseball, I really had to do, like, I thought to say how much media is there to deal with when you're with the West Tennessee Diamond Jacks. This is this is this is how ridiculous this gig is. Okay. I hated it.

Hated it. This is what I realized. Okay. I want to be involved in sports, but not like this. This is how old I am. When the game would be over and I would have to go into the I would have to be the last person there at the office because they had. list of like a hundred outlets, okay? And I would have to fax the box score.

And I'm like, none of these people care about this box score. Like, I need to send it to the Jackson's son, which is the local paper. And that's it. Nobody else in the world cares about this. And this is, but this is the way things were done. And so anyways, we host the AA All-Star game that year. and it was on like this Fox affiliate and Matt Devlin

was like super young play by play voice and he showed up and he was the only one like kind of near my age and he was super cool to me the entire like week while we were there and I made friends of them and then unbelievably he became the first voice of the Grizzlies on TV.

He was the first he was the first, he was the first one. And then obviously, as time went on, he moved away and he got that Toronto Raptors gig. But I love, you know, it's, I know the guy. So I love the, I love the guy. And I know how excited he gets. And listening to a broadcast of a team that has unbelievable vibes and is doing something like for the first time is such a treat. Because it, it, the enthusiasm comes through.

right when quickly's making a play when barnes making a play when ingram's making a play and they've won eight of nine and you watch them interacting with each other and it's like oh man this this team's got some really good vibes going and look at their schedule this is not getting worse this is going to keep getting better here for a little while because their schedule is soft and so the raptors are going to be a thing they're going to be a thing for sure and darko is super fun i mean we uh we We celebrated him after the first win of the season. But like, you know, the postgame chain for Brandon Ingram. And he just seems genuinely authentic in his enthusiasm.

Like you can't, you can't fake that stuff. You know, sometimes are rah-rah. Some people are rah-rah guys and, you know, give the speech and scream and hug and get fired up. And other guys are more stoic on the sidelines. And he seems to be genuinely enthusiastic and excited about his team. And it is nothing, you know, when you win eight and nine, it's a lot to be excited about. The other thing, on the other side, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention,

on all of these like rookie ladder things and whatever, I haven't seen, but my son actually mentioned this to me last night. Because Con Canipal hit another shot and we were like, and he had like 20 something. And he's like, how come he's not in any of those, right? It's always, you know,

coward and edgecombe and flag and even Cockbrenner's gotten some love recently. Con Caniple, go look at his numbers for a rookie. The numbers are great for a rookie. Usually there is a longer, there's a longer amount of time it takes for you to find a comfort zone and be able to, you know, score double digits and shoot good percentages.

But he has been a revelation for the Hornets so far. It looks like that's a hit. And he's a good opportunity too. You know, when you have guys injured like that, you have an opportunity as a rookie to put up 20 points and shoot high percentages and he has. It was a great looking game last night. the court and the uniforms.

It was just like, it went down to the wire. It was just a really good basketball experience. Oh, that wood court with the huge dinosaur in the middle is unbelievable. Probably the best game last night was the Bulls winning in Denver, which this can't be overstated. That they just played double overtime. Did they not right before? Yeah, against the jazz. There's a back to back.

So they're coming off a back to back and traveling. And it was overtime. The trap of all, double overtime, trap of all trap. In Denver. Altitude everything. That is a loss. That is a schedule loss. And they won.

Shock. Yeah. And their bench was absolutely mauling the Nuggets bench. But get to the fourth quarter and it felt like the Nuggets are just going to walk them down. Right? Okay, here comes winning time. Now we're going to walk you down.

And they did. They did walk them down. And then took the lead. And then the Bulls made some huge plays down the stretch. Iyo made a big one. Vucci Maine hit a huge three. They made some big plays down the stretch. But they outscored the Nuggets bench.

We have talked about like, hey, really like what the Nuggets did this offseason. And they've got some more fortified than they were in the past. They get their bench got outscored 66 to 9 last night. I saw that stat and I had to look at it again. I was like, wait a second, this can't be real. I was like, let me check this out. And I thought that, I thought Murray played well, Yokish played well. Cam Johnson sort of had a breakout game.

They've been sort of, they've been winning so much that no one's really talking about that Cam Johnson hasn't been playing that well. But he was five or seven from three and played well. And this one was, I was, when the Nuggets started to come back in the fourth quarter, I was like, oh, here we go again. Of course. This is going to happen. And the Bulls have not, the Bulls started hot, but I think they lost like five in a row

or something going into this one. Like they were not on top of things. I thought it was a gutty performance from the Bulls who needed that win. On a back to back too. And we say a million times, it's not how necessarily an individual player's loss. Individually is what can be so tough.

It is how it affects the group. And the Brown thing just makes you lighter, right? With Christian Brown out, now with team you're counting on. And now guys are moved out of, their roles and it has this domino effect. Next thing you know, and the other thing is like Valatunus,

who we both really like, I mean, it was unplayable. He played last night, Jonas Valentinus played four minutes and was a minus 15. What? That is impossible,

how? How? How? How many possessions can there be in four minutes? How can they're being? To get down 15. And unbelievably, he wasn't the worst.

Spencer Jones. Go look that name up. Spencer Jones played six minutes and was minus 16. I mean, it was like they couldn't even go with these guys for four minutes. Four minutes. Jesus. I mean, it's like, okay. And again, it's one night.

But that Bulls group, I also want to give them a little shout out. The bench they bring off the. The group they bring off the bench is dogs. Like DeSumu comes off and then Carter, Javon Carter comes off. And it's like, herders making plays that Patrick Williams is now trying to fly around. And they got like this group that like really. You want them to change the pace. You want them to like do something.

And they do. Like I kind of like watching them. They're kind of fun. The Bulls. And Giddy is like an absolute revelation this year. He's awesome. He is awesome. He is like a, he's like a James Hardin style like engine of an offense.

It's really impressive. And what's wild is their bench got slaughter. I mean, sorry, their, their starters got slaughtered, but their bench was just so much better than the nuggets that, that won them the game. And so shout out to the Bulls bench. Other ones we had, what a bummer for Janus to go out in that it was a close Cavs Bucks game. Mm-hmm. That's a good game. At half time, I was like, oh, this is going to get good.

I could not take the court in the Jersey combo. Oh, my God. What are we doing? What are we doing? What are we doing? Whose idea is this? Who signed off on this? I want answers.

I would, listen, FBI, if you're going to investigate gambling and everything, investigate this court. Investigate the design. Who designed it? Who signed off on it? Who painted it? There's so many people that need to be held accountable for this ridiculous. Remember we talking about good the Raptors game looked?

This game was at true. just looking. I don't, it's the combo, though, right? I sent you a picture of it while we were watching it last night. It's a combination of the two. If you had white jerseys, I can get down with the orange court. That's fine. If you had like blue jerseys, the orange jerseys and the orange court is just entirely too much. You're doing too much. It's terrible. And the court was bad. The game was tight, but the Janus thing was just such a bummer. Because right on the back of the wimby news,

you know, it's like Wimby's out with a calf. They say a few weeks, who knows how long that's going to be. But Janus, in, it didn't, like, I watched it so many times the replays. And I can't really figure out what happened, which is more concerning. It's almost like a non-contact injury or something. Yeah. And these soft tissues, it's gone on

around the league. We're starting to see them pop up. And to wit, wait to you see tonight people's reaction when they're going, what the hell? Why is this on? NBC flexed in the Spurs Grizzlies game tonight because they didn't have Wembe much. And now no Wembe and no Morant on NBC. They're going to be like, yo, is there like a war and order rerun we can put on? Who?

Who? The calls that are going to be made. tape. Because you know, you know, at NBC, there's going to be some like non-sports fan

and he's going to be texting around, like some executive, he's going to be like, what the hell are we doing here? What is it? Who, who chose this? Who chose Jock Landau

versus who had it? You know, what's the guy? Luke, Cornet or something. Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

Cornett's just start. I know. Start. Starting. game. That's in Memphis, right? And those are, no, it's in San Antonio. Oh, it's in San Antonio. Yeah, and both those guys have the cab injuries.

The heat beat the Knicks. Oh, I can imagine, I could, I imagine if I was at the bagel shop this morning, I would have heard, why don't doze just pass the ball? What is just doing? What is doing? What is dudes doing?

What is do you doing? Throwing a board a cat. That's exactly right. Why, why doesn't cat have the ball. Why is Deuce taking a left-handed floater off the top of the backboard with like 10 seconds left in the game and we're not getting Carl Anthony Towns the ball? It was so frustrating. I mean, they, they were down like seven with like a minute and a half left and they, you know, they hit some big shots just to get in that position. But the end of the game was just

so awkward with this, this phantom goaltending call. They just called goaltending. It was clearly not a goaltend on where and then there's like a the ball's bouncing around but the whistle blew so then it ends up being a jump ball and deuce what do's had a great game he did a great game he did a great dunk this is a guy look i understand it and this is why i do not understand make me understand it make me understand that shot please okay because the great of deuce miss bride is the no conscience right this is like these are the guys that bill sim as you saw always talk about with the Eddie houses and the, you know, and the, uh, Ricky Davis is and whoever, right?

And so he looks around and goes, Jalen Brunton ain't here to save us. It's doosh time. It's too. I think it wasn't Mitchell on him. Huh? Wasn't off night on him? Like, what are you doing? He couldn't care less who was on here.

That's his time. Bridges can't get the ball. I'll get us home. I'll get us home. That's what he said. God. He said, get us home.

Did you catch his dunk? Do you catch his dunk? Yes. I would love to see the sports science on how high Kalilware was fully extended jumping up to block that shot. Like it had to have been 14 feet in the air. I love that was crazy. Yeah. He had a big dunk at the end of the game too.

It was so crazy that the ref was like, that had to be. He just blew the whistle. Yeah. It's just like, I don't know. That looked weird. I don't know. I don't know what rule was broken. I saw something strange and I blew the whistle. I'll figure it out in the replay. Let's just have a jump ball. My bad. Inadvert. Look, you're just going to have to hold the fort down while Brunton and O.G.

It's O.G. The O.G. part is tough, too. And one of the things about Brunton being out for a month and a half, two months last year that was so nice was O.G. and Bridges sort of found themselves in the offense and in his absence. And it doubly hurts to have O.G. out at the same time. Hyman's Brunson because they can't sort of make up for the lack of offensive production. But good game from Deuce. Bad shot from Deuce, good game from Deuce. Yeah, and it was a fun game to watch. Like, they gave us an entertaining game. Did you see Landry Shammon had 36 over the weekend?

Landry Shamet, 36 points. Not on the season in a game. Stay around. Keep getting contract. We had the Sixers beating the Los Angeles Clippers. This one went down to the wire. as well. And at the beginning of the season, I opine to you.

I said, Maxie next superstar? Oh, yeah. Look, this is the conversation. 39 points. Oh, go look at his numbers this year. This is like he has gone from, hey, he's one of the better guards in the Eastern Conference, you know, probable All-Star, you know, for years to come to hold the phone now. Is this going to be the net, like, are we going to be looking up?

It's like Tim and Cade and this like Brunton, this group of Eastern Conference point guards that are just the best player on their team. Easily. Like I don't know if going into this year people thought Tyrese Maxie is going to be the best player on it, can be the best player on an awesome team, right? And at least through the first 12 to 15 games of the season, he has made those questions like irrelevant. Like he for sure can. He is over and over again

the best player on the floor. And he plays with such speed and force efficiency. Like to go that fast and to score with the efficiency that he does is unfathomable. The floater is just unstoppable. And when he's in transition, there's absolutely nothing you can do. Well, and what a deal with obviously MBE having no legs and the George thing working out.

beyond miserably. If you're Daryl Mori, you're sitting around and you're going, all right, how do I best build out around Maxie and Edgecombe, right? I've got this group right now. Now, how, like, the way you look at your team

for the future, like somehow a team that was expected to have a dismal future given their plight and what's happened with these two big money players, now they look like they have an intensely bright future because the edgecombe things looks like you nailed it

and what maxi has become, which is star of stars. I mean, this guy's what, he's got to be in the top five in the league in the league and scoring right now. I haven't checked on this morning. He was leading the league. I think Lucas is leading the league now, but I think he's second.

He's got, like 33, 33 in game. Lucas got him by like 0.2 points or something. 33, almost eight assists and almost five rebounds. Yeah, it's, it's unbelievable. The eye test is crazy. When I watch him, I'm like, I think he's the best player in the league. It's like, it's unstoppable.

Yeah, this guy. Unstoppable. Once he shooting from three, like 43% or something. Right. And on the other side, you want to talk about not only a bleak present and a bleak future that Clippers team that they were able to walk down last night. But Maxie, again, best player on the floor. Paul George came back and it was insignificant.

Yeah. Absolutely insignificant to the six. That's right. Two other things. Paul George's back. Who cares? As expected, the thunder just kept on rock and you see the Pelicans game. It's not even I think they're up. They're up by 30 in like

seconds. I didn't even turn the game on. I was like, what is this? It was like 40 to 10 or something. It was ridiculous. That is, that's just fed to the wolves on that one. Speaking of the actual wolves, they played the mat. What a weird deal they've got going on?

So, I don't know if you've noticed this, but if you were to pull up the Wolf's schedule, they have lost to everyone good, and then they've beaten everybody bad. Go look at that. It's very weird so far. And so now the trick is going to be, I think they play Oklahoma City. That's going to be a very, very good

barometer. Just got to see where they are. This is a team that's been in two consecutive Western Conference Finals. But if you look so far at their season, their losses are to the Lakers, Denver, the Lakers, the Nicks, and Denver. So they've played good teams, but like those are their losses. And then their wins are like Charlotte, Brooklyn, Utah, Sacramento, Utah, Sacramento, Dallas last night. And so I just don't feel like, you know, some of their metrics,

some of their defensive metrics are certainly down. They're doing the whole no point guard thing, you know, where they're kind of running Dante out there. Yeah. Bring it Conley off the bench. But they later, I guess we're going to have to wait until next week, honestly, because they've got Washington at Phoenix at SAC or their next three. So they're probably able to run that up.

But next Wednesday, let's circle that one so we can see them play against Oklahoma City. So it's a weird record just so far. Like they have, they've got a good record, but they're the only team in the league. that has beaten everybody under 500, but has lost to everybody over 500 that they played. If you remember the Knicks were like that last year, the Knicks were like this last year. They'd lost,

they got swept by the calves. They just like any sort of formidable opponent they could not beat. And, you know, it's, we'll see. I think it'll be good to see them go up against the thunder. And I'm not saying, hey, they need to win or whatever, but at least have a good showing, keep it close. And make shape playing the fourth, please.

Also, just let's see. the bar, like that'll be the barometer. It's actually a week from tomorrow. And we'll just kind of see because that's, we have not seen this team. Like, it's kind of, we know the outcomes. They are way better than these 500 or less teams. But they don't have a good win yet, right? And so that would be obviously a spectacular one at Oklahoma City if they were able to pull that off. So. Or a signature ant game. We haven't really had a signature aunt game this year either. Not yet. That is kind of what went on last night. The mismatch is brought to you by Fandul.

Get in on NBA action at any time with live betting on Fandul. From the first whistle until the final buzzer, Fandual is your home for live betting. And we've got some games this evening. Verno does not listen to the ad reads, so I'm not even going to pay any attention to that Grizzly Spurs game with no John Morant and no wimby. But I do have my eye on the magic.

and the Warriors. The Warriors are going to be on the road. Steph Curry, still one of the best shows in the league. We'll go up against those primitive defenders for the magic. Let's see if the Warriors can get a win there. And the Hawks and the Pistons, two of the surprise stories of the season thus far. They go head to head in Atlanta. I have the Pistons win again in that one as well. And that is what I will be focused on on my Van Duel app, because Van Duel is giving new customers, $150 in bonus bets if your first $5 bet wins. So just visit Fandul.com slash mismatch to sign up today. Play your game with Fandul, official sports betting partner of the NBA.

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Call 888-889-777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. We have three early season surprises each from what we have seen thus far. You want me to start? Yep. All right. I'm going to go with the Willie Green. dismissal and not because Willie Green got dismissed.

You expect, when you get new management in that didn't hire the guy, your team stinks anyway. Like, it's not Willie Green's fault, the Pelican stink, okay? So, you probably got a little bit of a raw deal here. That being said,

I am just, I'm always a little surprised, but I guess it's like, okay, well, let's just run him out there, and then we'll see how it goes. Like, if you already knew that this wasn't the coach that you wanted. Because it happens so quickly. It happens 12 games into the season.

But I went and looked and I was like, I wonder how many guys have been fired in less than 12 games. Huh. Jacoby, I am here to tell you. I saw some stat. Someone got fired after one. This is a record that can never be broken. Never.

Dolph shades. legend was coaching the Buffalo Braves and they played their first game and they lost by 33 to the Sonics and he got fired one game one so then I was like well that's crazy and obviously the owner hated him right and the owner was super impulsive got mad and fired the guy

I tried to find like old articles about it and that's basically what happened that this guy was like a You know, he was one of those guys that had a very short fuse anyway. So here's the owner, goes to the game. They lose by 33. He's like, the hell what they? We're getting rid of the coach, right? Buffalo Braves.

Yeah, Buffalo Braves. I was in stunned disbelief because I was like, oh, okay, well, that's a crazy story and whatever. There's been a bunch of guys fired in less than 12 games. in 2012, 2013, Mike Brown, the head coach of the New York Knicks, the Lakers started off one and four, and they canned him. Earl Watson,

three games for the 2017-2018-2018 sons, and they canned him. Okay? Gene Shue, the 77, 78, 76ers. They started off two and four. That's not that bad. I mean, you can get back to 500 pretty quick.

They canned him. Paul Westfall, the 19, I'm sorry, the 2011 Kings, seven games. Oh, that's right. Earl Lloyd, the 72, 73 pistons, seven games. Dr. Jack Ramsey, the legend, the ESPN legend. the 88 Pacers started out 0 and 7 and they canned Dr. Jack. Oh, and 7 I can get. The 2 and 4 is tough.

And then this is crazy. A team that I covered, the 2002, 2003 Memphis Grizzlies fired Sydney Lowe after eight games, 0 and 8 to start the season. Oh, my God. And they fired him. But like, if you're Willie Green, I don't know. I guess just I wanted to give the historical perspective because I wanted to give the historical perspective because I was thinking, damn, man, it can't be that many guys that have been fired

in less than 12 games. It's actually happened way more than I thought it at, way more. Recently, too. A lot of that's this century. It's not all in the 70s. I mean, if you're Willie Green, you're like, hey, at least I'll last to 12. At least I'm not Dahlshay's one one game in Buffalo, too. Unbreakable sports records. It's never mentioned. But Dahl's Shea is getting fired after one preseason game. We can break that. Maybe. All right.

So obviously, that was my first surprise. So my first surprise, and this is something that I'm generally taken aback by, is just how bad what a complete disaster of the Los Angeles Clippers are. And because I'm just months removed from them being the hottest team heading into the playoffs last year, to them having like what second and defensive rating to james hard and feeling like all right you've got him and a couple scores norm pal making a leap and you know kawai if he's healthy remember you came on here we had a kawai game we had a kawai game where you're like if kawai is back and if he is the playoff performer that he once was this team can make a championship run and now they just look

so bad they've lost eight of their last nine They blew a double-digit fourth quarter lead last night. They're four and ten. They're tied with the Grizzlies. No, that's bad. They're only above the Mavericks, the Kings and the Pelicans. They're on a seven-game road trip, and it's not going to get better. There's no Kauai.

There's no Beal. Now Derek Jones is out. And if you look at their bench, like, we all knew they were old. Chris Paul, Bogdan Bogdanovich, Lopez, Hardin, Leonard. they just feel so old and slow and bad and I don't see how they get better

and to top it off they owe their picture of the thumbback. Okay, two things on this. Shockingly bad. But there was a moment where I was watching the Amazon crew, which, 20-second timeout,

I'm falling in love for whatever. 20. I'm following a love with them. Yeah. I love it. I do. I called it. I called it a couple weeks ago. Rooks, Dirk, Haslam, uh, Blake. Ash. Oh, I love it. I do. I just, I like all the personalities. I like all of those people. I really do. They're not just having yucks either. They're giving you real exes and those breakdowns. And there was a moment where I was watching the Amazon crew. And I was like, oh, God. And, because, of course, I was high on the clippers going into the season,

or at least thought that they could be a very good team. Blake Griffin said that he would be the fifth oldest player on the Clippers. Oh, my God. And I almost fell off my couch. Would the Amazon crew beat the Clippers in an NBA basketball game? I was like, there's no way. There's no way. And then he, like, listed him off.

He was like, Paul Battoom. Yeah, Lopez. I was like, what is going on? I guess you just never think about it in like a context like that. But Blake Griffin's sitting on the couch and he's like, and Blake has been cooked for like four years. What in the world? He wouldn't even be close.

He wouldn't even be close to the oldest. It's wild, wild. And then the second thing is, and I, here's a question that is worthy of conversation, I think. Do you think? that all the off-the-court stuff has some effect. No. I'm saying all the aspiration stuff.

And then Pablo going on, no, saying that Tyloos at every poker game that's ever been played in his best friends of Chauncey Billets. Like, I don't know, man. I do feel like your head might be, like if your owner's all stressed out all the time

and Lawrence Franks all stressed out all the time, and then Tylo's like, damn it, when is Pablo Tori going to, report the next. I don't know. I do think that there might be something to just a, it's been catastrophic news. When you're in Philly in the fourth quarter, you don't care about aspiration carbon cutting, tree planting. No, no, no, no, no, no. You don't care. It's the fourth quarter you're in Philly or a basketball player playing basketball. I don't think just as any effect. I think thought of law and then tell me what's hurt on Kauai Leonard. Is it his ankle or his foot or both?

Or his knees or what? Everything's always hurt on Kauai. Just Google it. See what's hurt on him. It's something new every day. I'm upset. Chris Paul's getting DMPs. I don't think the,

I don't think the poker games or the circumvention or aspiration or Wong or bomber, any of that, any of that is anything to do with this. They're just bad. And look at the coaching. Everyone's telling me that Tailu is one of the best coaches than the league. I've heard that for a decade now. Here's what I'm going to say. I think

that they would probably be bad either way, right? Not this bad. But the age, the year they're having this year is the year that some expect last year where people were saying they're too old, right? And so they're going to drop like flies. And then when they do drop like flies, you know, there is no Norm Powell to come. Norm Powell. I think Norm Powell is very important for them. Of course. It's a big loss. He made you forget that Kauai Leonard doesn't play basketball, right? But Kauai didn't play last year. We played 30-something games last year. All I'm telling you is when I start the podcast,

we're talking about, man, like there's something about good vibes. And Raptors have the good vibes going right now. And the Pistons have the good vibes going. I'm telling you that building that everybody goes to every day has a cloud over it. When the owner is in that, it had this going on, When the GM has had this going on, when the coach has had this going on, it does affect things. I'm not talking about the fourth quarter against the Sixers in a, you know, win or lose game. I'm talking about the big operation.

And it's very hard to have good vibes. I'm telling you there's going to be a stress level that's going on around that that permeates. I believe that. That's true. And they might not have been good anyway. I'm just saying I do think that off the court things can have. have an effect because I've been in an NBA building. And I know what it's like the day after somebody gets hurt or the day after.

And like this thing. Or your star player says, why don't you ask the coach why they don't want me in the game or something like that. Right. Right. You've been around that sort of environment. It just permeates things, man. It does.

Everybody's like, you know what I mean? And I'm telling you, especially because the owner is involved. And he's omnipresent amongst that organization. Well, we celebrate teams like the Sons because they're getting the most out of like Royce O'Neill and Devin Booker. And these role players are sort of like taking a leap. Or you look at someone like Duncan Robinson in Detroit or Jalen Dern in Detroit and all these. Like the opposite is happening with the Clippers. Somehow Zubach, it's night and day this year and last year with him.

And, you know, and Leonard's not even there. Derek Jones is hurt now. And you look up and down the roster. It just feels like it's just not working, and I don't see how they turn it around. Next surprise. How is 37-year-old Steph Curry still the most fun player to watch in the NBA? I mean, that show he put on over the weekend against the Spurs,

shooting over when, and 95 points in two games. Like, it is unbelievable to me that, like, it's just that we're this far into it, 37 years old. And he, if you did not know what year it was, like we all, in the Olympics a couple years ago, like that was like the greatest thing ever. Oh, yeah. I mean, it really was. It was the greatest thing ever to watch that unfold.

But still, at when he is going, when he is at his apex, when he's like feeling it, there's nobody. There's still nobody like him. There's nobody more fun. to watch him. And I'm no Warriors fan. But my God, I respect it. And I watch him and I'm like, dude. It's so crazy.

The shot making is insane. Well, for me, it's the level of just physical output that he puts in night after night. If you look at older players like Dirk, he's just seven feet tall, he's shooting a fade away. You look at LeBron. He's just using his strength and guile and intelligence.

But Steph Curry is just putting miles on the odometer, running in circles, cutting off the ball, giving up the ball, cutting away, running around, running around again, going off of this screen, dribble hand off, and then off of this, and then shooting like a one-footed off-balance three, and then running back before he even sees it goes through the net. Like, he puts so much energy and effort into every game

that it is unlike other older players where you see their age. Oh, my God. I mean, you think about 37, and you could just have a list of guys that are like his age. and that's just not what it like we have just broken this in between LeBron and now him we've just broken this like what you're supposed to look like well look at Vince Carter on the Hawks

he was like a catch and shoot corner three guy you know what I mean like he completely changed his game whereas step I mean he looks a little bit older sure but it doesn't feel like a dramatically different step than it was 10 years ago I mean I can't and then like those spurs games

I mean, it's 95 points. Like, he looks like the best part in the world in those games. Yeah. And it's like, how, how are you still the guy? How? It's honestly, truly crazy when you think about, like, Mike Conley's 37. Eric Gordon is 37. They look 37.

Like, these are guys that are 37 years old. And if you look at the roster, there's not a ton of help on that roster either. Right. It's crazy. It's crazy to watch and the fact that he can still take over games and be the guys. I'm going to the oldest guys in the NBA, Chris Paul's 40, Lowry is 39, Garrett Temple's 39, Al Horford's 39. Obviously, I already mentioned LeBron.

Jeff Green, 39. All those guys look and feel old though. Steph does not. Oh, no, that's why I'm listing them. Joe Engels, 38. Mike Conley, 38. Steph Curry, 37. Everybody else on that list looks and feels like an old man playing basketball.

Outside of LeBron. Outside of LeBron. Look at the minutes that those guys play. No. And then, okay. I'll go further. Brooke Lopez 37. Like, no minutes.

Right. He's the next one. And then, uh, Kevin Love. Who's like none of these. Kevin Lopheme are, except for LeBron. LeBron is in, you know, he's in now, whatever. Well, and Duran. No team.

Durant is 37. I would say outside of LeBron and Durant, those players are not being relied upon by their teams. They're there to be a veteran presence in the locker room. Kyle Lowry and Kevin Love, like what are we talking about? How amazing both Curry, LeBron, and Durant are at their advanced age is like, like take a moment because that's, you know,

we keep on saying we need to pass the torch. And I'm watching those games over the weekend. I'm like, Berlin. If I'm putting a game on TV, this is the dude to put on TV. Him and Wemby, honestly. It's like him and Wemby, except Wemby's like, you know, 14. Yeah. And her.

That's good one. So here's one thing that surprised me. And it's not that it's happening, it's how early and how loud it's happening, is the star player trades that are flying around and we're in like week four of the season. And I've already seen a million different Anthony Davis destinations. I've seen a million different trade. Oh, now we have to trade Tray Young because the Hawks are winning games. Now we have to trade Tray Young.

And John Morant, oh, no, we've got to trade John Morant. It just feels like these, those three examples to me are surprising because it's so early and there's still so much season left to play for those three teams that it's like, all of a sudden, like, oh, we got to trade these guys. There's realistic trades out there, like the Zion, Sabonis, Marketing, Those sort of makes sense to me. All the kings? Yeah.

All the kings, all the pelicans. All the grizzlies. But young Davis and Morant are just sort of like, is how we're doing now? Like we have to trade Anthony Davis. We have to trade Moran. We have to trade Young. Yeah. Is that we're doing already?

We just, we started early. It's November. You know what I mean? It feels like it was a Halloween a week ago. And it's like, oh, Trey Young, got to trade them. Why do we have to trade, Tray Young? Because the Hawks are winning games. Okay.

Look, I guess. You're, all right, is your ceiling higher with or without said player? Come on. Well, also, all these players have huge contracts. So what is the market? Like, who's like, oh, you know what I want to do? I want to take on a $50 million player that somebody else doesn't want. That's what I want to do is in my franchise.

Anthony Davis, oh, you're the fat hurt guy. Yeah, $50 million. We've got an option for like $62 million in three years. Yeah, I'll take him. I'll put together a bunch of draft assets to trade for him. You don't like that. You don't like the trade talk already? I just don't,

I just don't see it happening. Like, who's trading for Anthony Davis? Who? Who? Where is Trey Young going? Right. Where?

Right. Where? The Timberwolves? Like, no. Just as soon as they started winning some games, right? And obviously, uh, their ceiling gets much,

much higher if they have Trey Young. I mean, like, I don't, sometimes people that talk about this stuff don't understand playoff basketball, right? It's a different world.

When you have the guy that can garner the attention that he has to garner, he makes everybody better. Even despite his flaws. Who are you giving the ball to? They ain't doubling. I'm telling you, they ain't going to be doubling. Jalen Johnson. Yeah.

Dyson Daniels, do you give him the ball? Like, no, Trey Young is he's Trey. And if you want them doubled, you know what's going to happen to you? You're going to turn out to be Julius Randall with the Knicks. It's like, you're not equipped to do this. right that's a different breed the different breed like you and they may they may put up bad numbers but they are the gravity make no mistake about that when it comes to playoff basketball you better have somebody that's offensively talented like that or else that guy you think is

offensively talented in the regular season he's getting shut out yeah because he ain't built for that he ain't built for all the attention when a team builds their regular season they build in their defense every night to stop you. That's not the way this goes. But so, yeah, pause on the, on the Trey Young thing. Let that thing play out, right? Because it went some games without him. The Anthony Davis-Kyrie stuff I kind of understand just because

the Mavericks are falling apart in the time lines and your GM's gone. And he's a constant reminder of the worst moment of your life. Yeah. Every single day. And he's bad now. But like my thing with Anthony Davis is does make sense for them to sort of like move off this two timeline thing because they're not competitive as

currently constructed. I just don't see a market at all for Anthony Davis. Like what GM is going to, like you know what I really want? Anthony Davis on my roster. Right. No one. Yeah, Carl Anthony Towns for Anthony Davis. I heard that. I was like, what are you talking about? Oh, why? Why would the Knicks do that? Why?

My last surprise. What about Jha? Can we check in on Jha? Mental health checking. He's out. How are we doing? I know. He's out. He's out. He's out. Two to three weeks. How's the city? What's going on? What are you talking about?

It's a mess. Just watch the Spurs game tonight. It's a mess. No one's watching the Spurs game tonight. Let me tell. I almost I almost ran into traffic over the weekend. On Saturday. Hey, not that anybody was watching except for me.

They played the Cleveland Cavaliers and Zach Eadie was back. And everything looked different for six minutes. He's setting the same. screen and a guy's dying on it. Morant's turning the corner, throwing a lob to him. Jaron Jackson Jr.'s not having to do all the baloney. So he's going off. And I'm like, it's not the individual player.

It's how the individual player affects the group. And it's like just not having Jock Landau in there and having this monster. When you see Eady on the court, you'll see him tonight. He's 7'5, bro. I mean, it's, it looks freakish out there. And he takes up all manner of space. And then six minutes in, Morant gets hurt. And I'm like, okay, I'm running into traffic.

Like it was, it was a fun. I got to have fun for six minutes this season, six minutes. The same thing happens in the playoffs against the Thunder. Remember the game three? Unbelievable. It was awesome. Unbelievable. Game three was amazing.

My, my happy, my happiness is so short lived. It's unbelievable. So now my last surprise, what I do to be happy. I just watched Raptors games. And the Raptors Ben. being the second best bench statistically in the NBA is one of the wildest things ever. That's when you know you got vibes, bro, because this bench, Jamal Shed, Grady Dick, Murray Boyles, Mahmoo, Jacoby and Jacoby Walter, right? Who spells it much different.

And then they got these other guys, right? Like battle and loss. But the guys that like play and the fact, the number one bench in the. NBA is who do you think? Come on. So this is what, just points per game production? Yeah, yeah, net rating. Thunder.

Like, you know, I win. Yes. Thunder. Yeah. But yes, they are for sure the best. Meaning I play, we play out 100 possessions, does my bench win or lose? So the thunder to wit going before last night's games were plus 5.7 net rating, which is awesome for a bench. That's amazing.

If your bench wins on a regular basis is great. The Raptors are second plus five. I mean, not what you would have expected. Well, because the Thunder Bench also plays with a lead a lot too, which I don't think helps you in this stat. Right. Because you're not in pressure situations where you feel like you have to score. It's kind of garbage timey, getting up and down.

Right. Last night, notwithstanding, the Nuggets Bench has been performing well in their time. and then the Rockets and then the Sons, who were a surprise so far. But I just don't think that the Raptors, it felt like a team that we were going to look and we were going to go, wow, they got Brandon Angroom and they got Scotty Barnes

and they got quickly and they got RJ and they got Porto. Like they got good players, even though they still haven't figured out the Barnes-Engram together thing and they're better staggered. But we figured it was like top-heavy. I wasn't looking,

You're not looking at the Raptors bench and going. This is the advantage. Here's our advantage tonight. But it has been like a big part of their win streak or winning eight out of nine has been their bench has been a massive advantage for them. Maybe they all just want that huge chain that darko gets out. They probably want the chain. Maybe that's what it is. Yeah.

It's what it is. Branding him spin the chain. So good. The notorious B.I. brain. So mine, this is not, I'm not breaking news here, but what has been so surprising to me is just how frustrating it is to watch the Thunder games.

Like this Pelicans game last night was like, they run out. They run out, they had like a 20 point lead and it was like 8.15 Eastern. You know what? It was just like, what? And then they get up.

So they had a lead by 10, less than three minutes into the game and 20 before eight minutes had a lap. And then they had it on one of the TVs at a rec league game. So I was watching all the games at once and watching one of the TVs. And they've got Brooks Barnheiser in the game. Brandon Carlson's in the game playing big minutes. And then I started talking to one of my buddies. I was like, they don't even have their number one pick from the last two years available to them.

Topich and Sorber are not playing. topit testicular cancer and sorbara has got an ACL. So those guys aren't even available. They're going to have, there's a million ways that this could play out, but most likely they're going to have three first round picks this year.

So their last two first round picks aren't playing. They go deep as all hell. You just mentioned they've got the best bench in the game. You can't score on them. SGA never plays a fourth quarter. Chet is, again, like, taking a leap. Hartenstein is the best rebounder in the league. it's so frustrating to watch them

and to think this team will just never go away. They've got their two number one picks for the last two years, not available to them. They're going to have three number one picks this year. Think about that. P.S., we're going to look up

and there's going to be like, you remember how we looked at like, you look at that old Thunder team, and you're like, they ended up having three NBA MVP's. And we're going to look up, and it's going to be like, Gild is Alexander, Holmgren, Williams, and A.J. Mitchell, all the game, league MVP's. AJ Mitchell just comes out of nowhere.

Oh, he's unbelievable. And everyone just focuses on offense, but, like, they just, like, the Pelicans just look terrified. They just look terrified every time they had the ball. They could not do anything. Yeah, we just got to wait until they, like, lose guys. I don't, I don't even know. Well, no, because of the, like, how all of them have. have increased their value so greatly that if you put them out on the open market now,

the Kaysan Wallace's of the world, the Lufors of the world, like all of them are going to, like, and they're not going to probably be the same player in another uniform. No. But it's like you can't, you're not going to be able to pay all these guys, man. This is crazy. And but then you're not even going to need to. But then they're like, they're restops with picks. Yeah, we just have guys.

Let's say you can't pay Ludo or whatever. Lutor, by the way, is like somehow hitting shots this year. You can't pay Lou Dork, so he walks. Guess what? Case what, Kaysan Wallace is right there. Right. He's right there. Or Caruso.

Yeah, Cruz-J. Mitchell. Yeah, one of these guys, like, they're just, they've just got, it seems like they've got three waves of players. Barnheiser. That's just making a mockery of everyone. I'm watching this. It was in garbage time. I'm looking over, I'm like, I don't even, what is happening? It's like four white guys on the floor.

I'm like, what? And they're still winning. They're winning those minutes. I'm like, who are these guys? Those are our surprises so far from the early season. I do want to mention real quickly, just a funny story. So at the beginning of the podcast, I talked about the whole Matt Devlin thing and how I met him so many years ago.

The one thing that I remembered, I hadn't thought about this in so many years until last year with him doing the whole deal with B.I.3 and everything. So at that AA All-Star game that I was talking about, it was like the biggest deal. Like they had, we had like a legends game and like Dave Parker showed up. No. Gay Lord Perry had like a jersey. Gaylord Perry was 380 pounds and had a jersey with every team he had played for on it.

George Foster, who was part of the big red machine, was like 40 something. And he hit a bomb at the end in the legends game. Really? Yeah, he was ripped. Like, so some of the legends looked amazing and some of the legends look like crap. But it was the biggest deal that the game day host was Wink Martindale, all right? Wink Martindale, who was the game show host. Oh, no.

Oh, yes. Not that Wink Martindale from the Ravens. Wink Martindale who hosted Tick Tick Takedo, which was one of those shows that we would watch when we stayed home from school, right? The game show. What was the other one I love? The No Whammy's, No Amies, No Amis, No Amis? Yeah. Press your luck.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I've never been more excited to meet someone than Wink Martindale. Like, he shows up and he is like, he's a game show host the whole time. That's not an act. He's just that guy. Nice to meet you, you know? Like, that's how we talks to people. And I'm like, this is awesome.

I can't tell you how many days I stayed home sick from school and watch frigging tick-tack dough, right? But Wink Martindale's there. And so anyways, I hadn't thought about it like 25 years. And I went and looked it up, bro. He died in April. Wink Martindale. Oh, no.

He died. And then, this is the reason I'm saying this. It said when I looked it up, poor guy, he was 90. So he lived a full life. Sure did. It said, winked Martindale died April 14th or April 15th, 2025. And I was like, I'll be damn. I was like, I didn't even see that news.

Poor wink. You know, I would have certainly done thoughts of prayers or something. And so anyways, he passed away. And then like the next like Google thing, it said tick-deck-do makes its return to the game show network. Hand to God. Tick-Tac-toe? Bro. Yeah, that was the name of the show.

Is it coming back? No, it did come back. Hand to God. Reruns? No, with a new host. And it said it came back April 14th, 2025 and I went no way. The day before he

passed so he watched Tick-Tac Doe come back and said my job is done here on this planet. I think so. Wow, Wink. What a world. It said that. It was the next article.

It said Tick-Tac Doe makes its return. The show once famously hosted by Wink Martindale and then I went and like checked it again. And I was like, no way. It premiered. It's on. Game Show Network. I didn't even know.

Tick, Doe is awesome. You have to answer questions and then you get to put your X or your zero. But there's also like a dragon that pops up that can block it. That's the blocking dragon. I love the no amies one.

Press your luck and I loved. Yeah. I loved. I loved, love connection. With the, who was it, Chuck Ulrey? Yes, yes. We'll be back in two and two. It's such a classic.

We'll be back in two and two. No one else in the history of television has ever gone to break with that. We'll be back. At Summer League, I went and found a pressure luck slot machine because I was like, oh, this is awesome. It's like my childhood. Oh, you want to talk about crushed buddy. You pressed your luck?

I pressed my luck and it did not work out well at all. I have a confession. Before we end the pot, I have to confess something. Every time I go to a casino, I see all of these like old people and old ladies just pressing the slot buttons and pushing the slot buttons. and every time I'm like, how can these people figure out how to play these things? And I have no idea how this works. I do not know how to play slot machines. I'm too dumb.

I'm literally too dumb. I've sat down there before and I've tried to read the rules or whatever. I've put my money in and I do not understand how it works. I am too dumb to play slots. You can figure it out. I mean, look, you need to be retired. It takes time. I guess so.

You need to fetch time. It takes a little time. Or you could have got, like, I'm, like, I'm just, you can't. sure that's what happened to uh did you see the monday night football gave it all a little bit it was just a there was a blowout or whatever yeah it was but the first series was very strange because cowboys got the ball and george pickens and cd lamb were not out on the field why they didn't play the first series two touchdowns why not were the suspended or something the rumor was that they were in the casino what they put in the raiders yes they're big buddy

That was the rumor that they were out of the casino and they stayed out like super late. I'm telling you, you can get caught. You can get. Once you're, once you're there, you're there. Right. And so then by, by like the second quarter. And the funny thing is. So even if they were out like super late and they were like at the casino, like I think

Pickett's had like one. I saw pickets score two touchdowns. Oh no. Yeah. They had like. It was untackable. That one play on the left sideline. They had.

There was like seven raiders. trying to tackle him. He was like, no. They had like 220 yards and three touchdowns between them. So I guess the punishment got there. And Brian Schiaenheimer's like hugging him on the sidelines.

But yeah, he held him out of the first series of the game. I was like, that was their punishment. And that was the rumor. I mean, what else were you doing a bait, right? If you figure guys got light punishment for being out in Vegas, I'm surprised that that's not a massive advantage for

the Raiders. They just must really be horrible. Well, the thing is just they get no home field advantage because everyone picks that as the weekend that they go with the road trip with the boys to follow the team. Like all my friends go to a Giants game every year. And if they play the Raiders, it's like, oh, let's go to Vegas.

You know, so it's like half. It was like the Knicks game last night. It's three quarters Knicks game. I'm talking about opposing teams gamble. Oh, we always thought that was going to be a thing once they move the team to Vegas. Yeah, like staying out real late and like, you know what I mean? It's hard to get not get caught up. It works for George Pickens. Man, what?

Those guys are built for it, right? They are built for it. They were playing Prestier Luck. They were playing the Pressier Luck slots. Yes, I think that's what they were doing. You can't win on that thing, by the way. You can't win. Thank you to our executive producer, Jesse Lopez, as always.

Jacoby. I'll talk to you later this week. Must be 21 or over and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 and over and present in D.C., Kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem? Call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-Helph.com.

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