The Mismatch - Eight Intriguing Observations From Preseason and What Kevin Learned About the Brooklyn Nets

Episode Date: October 8, 2021

Verno and KOC discuss what KOC learned after spending some time with the Brooklyn Nets, including Harden’s newfound leadership and the love players have for head coach Steve Nash (0:35). Then they get into their eight intriguing observations from preseason, such as Jordan Poole’s leap, Anthony Edwards’s maturity, and many more (28:00). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Associate Producer: Sasha Ashall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's me Kevin O'Connor. I wanted to tell you about one of our rebranded shows on the Ringer podcast network, and that's the Ringer Wrestling show. If you love the Masked Show, you'll love the Ringer Wrestling show. It's your guide for all things for wrestling. And this week, they covered the WRourkewerex. You can find the Ringer show on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to The Misholm. Welcome to the Mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon. Join him as he does every Friday from the Ringer.com. It's Kevin O'Connor, A.K. Kevin O'Connor, Kevin O'Con, Kevin O'Con, Kevin O'Con. Flint, Kevin. Burdo! What's going on this Friday, buddy? Well, the sample size is getting a little bit bigger for preseason basketball, not that it matters all that much, but what is important is that we are 11 days away from the beginning of NBA season as we are recording this, the 75th NBA season,

which is going to be a big deal this year. You wrote this week about the Brooklyn Nets, who have been center stage of a lot of conversations for good reasons and bad reasons to start off this season. So I want to start off with that. Look, you have all manner of topics that you can choose from to write these articles about as we are leading into the season. What particularly intrigued you about the Nets and that situation? Because you didn't go the angle of Kyrie Irving, is Kyrie Irving? going to play. Obviously, you have to mention it in the article, but you took a different

angle, which was to talk about their roster as a whole and kind of how they're building that entire thing there. So why the Nets outside of the obvious reasons that many people have them as a prohibitive favorite in the East this year, and they're loaded with stars? So the idea was basically just really a column for the Nets, just about their insane amount of depth they have, how I think Cam Thomas is going to be the steal of a draft, getting him at the 27th pick. I had Cam Thomas ranked ninth on my board. The Nets had him ranked in the low teens. I mean, I think the way he's performed in summer league, so in his one game in preseason, I mean, it's a great start for him. So, I mean, it was really just a column about the insane

amount of depth the nets have. And also just about the fact that they have this young guy that could help create a sustainable winner because that's what the last time I met with Brooklyn, the 2017-18 season. That's what Sean Marks, their general manager talked about, wanting to build a sustainable winner. And then we just kind of decided to make it a reported column. Go down to Nets training camp in San Diego and talk to some players, Sean Marks and Steve Nash and get input from them,

especially with the Kyrie Irving shenanigans happening now. So I look at it more like a reported column. It was an opinion, started out as an opinion idea about this deep team and then turn into a reported story. So yeah, I mean, my takeaway is from Nets camp or like I said in the story, I mean, the Kyrie Irving stuff could become a major distraction at some point once he starts missing games and he's in and out of the lineup or if he's ever sent away from the team for any extended stretch.

But as of now, it seems like the players and coaches and executives aren't at all distracted one bit. So I don't see that as a problem yet. We'll see if it becomes one. but overall still with this next team, even without Kyrie Irvin, Chris, this team is freaking deep, dude. But forget about Katie and James Hardin for one second. Like everybody behind those guys,

from the old guys, the young guys, this team is arguably the deepest team in all of basketball and has the best star power. That's a crazy thing to say. One of the things that I have wondered about, and I, look, as I mentioned,

we've got 11 days until the beginning of the season. Let's just touch on the Kyrie thing real quick. because this happens sometimes in other sports. I'll start thinking hard about this and whether or not Kyrie Irving has to be moved or if he's not going to get to play some games and he's only going to play half the games. I'll worry about all of that.

Once we get to regular season, game number one, and he's not in the lineup, because there's certainly a possibility that I don't want to do training camp. I don't want to do preseason. This is a good excuse not to do it. And then when time comes and the lights get bright, he'll get vaccinated and he'll be on the team and he'll be playing.

Right. Like, I mean, there is this. You can do the whole I'm taking a stand. I've done my research. I don't believe I should have to do this. And then there's the whole, and he's got, you know, a boatload of money. So if he's willing to take the hit and just say,

I don't want to play in the preseason. season anyway. I don't want to do training camp anyway. But when the regular season comes, I'll be there. Because otherwise, I know everybody is tired of getting asked about this with the nets and they're all kind of blowing it off and it's not a distraction. There's part of me in the back of my mind that just says, when it comes time, he'll be there. Obviously, we'll have a big conversation about it if he's not. But the idea that somebody that's a veteran player would be like, to hell with training camp in the preseason. If it costs me some money, it costs me some money.

But here's a good reason that I can put this off, sit this out. And then when the time comes, he'll get vaccinated so he can be part of the team. I really think that that's, I mean, I don't know, obviously,

but that makes a lot of sense to me. Yeah, I mean, look, the quote didn't make it into the story, but I asked Sean Marks, something along the lines of, uh, like using the regular season for rest for players for the playoffs. And he pretty much,

you know, admitted that yeah, like they're going to use the regular season to manage minutes for their top guys. So if Kyrie Irving is playing half the games, he only plays like 55 games every year anyway, Chris. Yeah.

So, I mean, for Kyrie, if he has to miss some time, that means like you, you might be resting him anyway. I mean, look,

like you said, Kyrie at some point, maybe it's midseason. Maybe. before the playoffs. Maybe it's early in the regular season. All he's going to do is show a proof of vaccination card to the league. Just show the card.

Just a card. One of the things that really stood out to me from your story was, and this is going to, I think you're probably going to think this is an odd thing to stand out. But as someone who has paid attention to Preps basketball for a long time, I did not have an awareness that Cam Thomas was the leading scorer in O'Kill

basketball history. And you have that as a note in there. And the reason that that is so significant because for those that are unaware, like, Jerry Stackhouse went to O'Kill and Ron Mercer went to O'Kill, and Cole Anthony went to O'Kill, and Carmelo Anthony went to O'Kill, and Stephen Jackson and Brandon Jennings

and Quinn Cook and Josh Smith and Ray John Rondo and like there's like, there's 33. There's like 33 at minimum. Oh, there's 30 plus NBA players that have played at O'Kill, including like Hall of Fame level players that have played at O'Kill, that have spanned the decade. I mean, you go all the way from Jerry Stackhouse to Carmelo Anthony to Cole Anthony, who's going in his second year in the, NBA. And the idea, like, that is not, that is not a small feat to be the leading score at that school. There's some schools you can be the leading score and it ain't that big of a deal. If you're the all-time leading score at Oak Hill, holy mackerel. And I think you said in the

article, he averaged almost like 32 points a game or something. And of course, that did translate. He scored a boatload of points and was one of the best freshman scorers that we've had in the last couple of decades in college. His LSU team wasn't that good, but the guy would, I mean, it's not like he didn't get buckets his one year at LSU. Yeah, exactly. I mean, look, the fact they got this guy at the 27th pick, we'll see how things pan out. But I'm incredibly high on him.

I am bullish on Cam Thomas. And I really think over the course of this season, let's just say Kyrie never shows a proof of vaccination card to the league. And let's say Patty Mills is starting a lot of games for the Nets. you're going to have Bruce Brown playing a little bit of guard, but he plays like a center for them. You have Javon Carter on the roster right now, obviously more of a defensive oriented player. I really think over the course of the year, as people watch this Nets team, like that aren't Nets fans, and then like they're on national TV a lot.

Cam Thomas is going to have a lot of opportunities to show what he can do. And it's not going to shock me one bit if he's the type of guy that pops immediately as a rookie on this team, if provided opportunity, which we'll see. like kairi could very well show up day one and say hey here's my card here's my card you know and then like there's not going to be minutes available but i'm i'm a believer in this kid and i think like talking i talked to him before the draft because originally we were going to do a story on cam thomas around draft time that didn't work out i wasn't able to talk to enough people in time because there's so many other things that was doing um but then we pushed it to now because he went to the net so it's like wow perfect he told me

before the draft. My favorite player right now is James Harden. I study his game all the time. He's like, I'm obsessed with Kyrie Irving's game. We talked about his at-room finishing package and the way Kyrie can finish. We talked about Kyrie's pull up and like Kobe was his all-time favorite. And it turns out like as I put in the story that him and Kyrie, who both idolize Kobe, that they clicked together over that. That's what kind of brought them together was their love for Kobe. And now Kyrie's like super tight with Kim. Like they text all the time, you know, they're talking. about basketball. And I mean, Kyrie, say what you want about him for,

you know, all the other stuff. But speaking strictly about basketball, pretty good guy, you know, for Cam Thomas to have in terms of learning some of the technical aspects of the game. Never mind once he gets to know James Harder, and never mind once he gets to know some of these other great scores.

Kevin Durant, Steve Nash. I mean, like it's an endless list of mentors on this Nets roster for someone who's a sponge like Cam Thomas just to absorb all the information. I think he's going to end up being the steal of this draft and he's going to absorb everything from these guys. Let me tell you something too.

And a name that you mentioned in passing because I know him well, which is Javon Carter. Nets fans are going to absolutely love him. Isn't he great, Chris? His defense. Oh, my God. And he really didn't get any clock during that run last year that the sons had. He was just, I mean, he was a win.

his protection at the end of that bench. But that is a sneaky, good pickup for them. And he is always going to be a fan favorite. People loved him in Memphis. Phoenix fans loved him when he came in games. And they will love him in Brooklyn. Regarding the camp thing, and you were talking about Kyrie Irving and that relationship, one of the other things, and you're talking about his like leadership ability,

one of the things that I found interesting that it's mentioned in your article and It's been a common refrain from anybody that's talked about the Nets with knowledge of kind of the inner working of the Nets is this new leadership driven James Hardin. Like they have really been effusive in praise about him since he has gotten there in the role that he has taken on. And you even mentioned him at one point there's a quote about him being talkative on defense. and helping young guys. And I really do think that with Hardin, there's a lot of bad PR that comes with the way it went down in Houston. And I think there's two things.

I think there is a reputation that he wanted to fix and not be so that he didn't take things seriously or that he wasn't the hardest worker or that he wasn't a great leader and that he was kind of him and everybody else. And the other thing is winning, obviously, right? You need the key is probably the best player in the NBA or certainly in the top three or four that has not won a championship. And so you've got a couple of these guys, both Hardin and interestingly enough, Westbrook in L.A.

That, you know, you hear these things about how they alter themselves as they get older because it becomes, maybe more clear to them, I can't conduct myself the way I've always conducted myself and achieve what I want to achieve. And some of that just comes with getting older and maturity that comes with it. But I've been rather impressed with the amount of people that have all come away with the same thing, which is that the Nets think very highly of him in a leadership role. It mattered to me because a lot of the time you hear, oh, this guy's been a great leader. And it's like, oh, why, why, why?

Give me an example. Like, tell me a story. And sometimes it's like, uh, uh, like, you know, like they don't have. And in this case, it's like they were just boom, boom, like coming out firing, you know? So it's that that's a good sign, I think when people, when you follow up like that and like, Daron Sharp's like, oh yeah, the other day in practice, uh, I screwed up on a rotation on a flare screen. And he was the first person to signal out to me what I was supposed to do when like then like, you asked Sharp for another one.

He's like, oh, he took a charge the other day, by the way. He just stepped in front of Bruce Brown driving to the rim. It's like, you know, other stories like that as well from other guys. But it's intriguing. I feel like, you know, anything in life we can all get better at, no matter how good you are, no matter how great you are at something or no matter how bad you are at something, you can go from bad to average. You can go from great to amazing.

And for Hardin, maybe before he was a subpar leader. It seems like now at least he's a tick above average. I mean, like he's not, you know, talk. No, he's not Tom Brady out there. He's not a leader by example like Tim Duncan out there. No, but I think part of it is it's sometimes you're best suited not to be the guy. Make no mistake. That thing is hinging upon and everybody knows that's Kevin Durant, right?

When you think about the net, you think about Kevin Durant. And when you are the guy and, you know, you read all the stories at Houston on the way out, how they catered to him so much. It was kind of James and everybody else. And that was difficult for Westbrook and that was difficult for Paul and that was difficult, right? Because he would decide when we're going to fly out somewhere. He would get to decide whether we're going to practice or not. Like, he ain't the guy there.

You know what I mean? Like, he's not the guy. Yeah. Yes. And so if you're in that position, it's a much different position than when you get to run the show, you know, because you, look, make no mistake. Regardless of who the owner is, who the GM is, who the coach is, James Hardin was the most powerful person in that Houston organization. End of story.

And that is not so anymore, right? And so sometimes you're just miscast as being the most powerful guy in an organization, right? That everybody looks to it. It's like you're saying now, Katie's the best player. You know, he's the leader by example. 100%. Hardin is not the guy who is, you know, face of the person. the franchise, he is like number two.

That's right. Now he's able to absorb some more leadership responsibilities as the vocal guy. I mean, he's a guy talking. And it makes it easier for you. Yes, exactly. I think that makes a lot of sense there. And also like he's, you know, in his 30s now. Maybe he's matured some.

And maybe he also realizes like what he screwed up in the past and where his shortcomings were. I didn't get to talk to Hardin for the story. But I'd love to read or listen to an honest. sit down conversation with Harden about where his shortcomings were in the past, both as a player and as a leader. And maybe it would be an illuminating conversation or maybe he maybe it would just show he hasn't changed at all. It's the same type of leadership. And for some of these young guys on the Nets, it's no different. But my impression from the people I've talked to is that

he has indeed changed as a leader. Because back in Houston, like the stories out there about him and the example he said, we're not necessarily good. So impression so far is, all positive for him in Brooklyn. It does seem like he's changed and improved even more. So, I mean, I'm picking this Nets team to win the NBA finals. I think health is the only thing that's going to stop them from rolling all the way there. There's some real tough challenges in the way. But I just think this Nets team with their star power up top with or without Kairi,

and the amount of depth and upside from the youth, Cam Thomas, Nick Clackson especially, yeah, they're my pick the winner at all. All right. Last thing I do want to ask you about, which is it's so fascinating that such a massive star and name like Steve Nash could get that job. And he's just not really a topic about the Nets. Right? The coach is really not a topic. Really not at all.

Yeah. Could you gauge anything? Not in my story, at least. I mean, I would have liked to have making more of a topic. But like, you know, in the 15, 20 minutes we talked. it's like Steve doesn't say a lot. Steve Nash just keep things close to the best. He also has not made himself a topic.

Exactly. He doesn't. Exactly. He doesn't at all. Trust me. Not even a little bit. Not even a little. Oh,

you got nothing. I mean, I mean, like there's some stuff we could have put in there. Like I asked him, what did you do the worst last year as a coach? And he gave me this story about early in the season in Cleveland. They were up three.

and he wanted a foul, but he didn't really install it in their defense ahead of time. They didn't signal it clearly during the game. And like ever since then they did it, like falling up three end game situations. Players, players knew to do it. That's a Colin Sexton game. Yeah, that was like the double overtime game, I think. College Sexton, like it was college sexton versus the net. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

That was the game. And so he told me that and that was good. Yeah. Yeah, Steve Nash definitely keeps things close to the best. Thanks. I asked you for something and you said one particular game where you didn't foul up three. Thanks, bro. One one. He probably thought he was giving you a really good answer, right? I thought it was a good answer. I thought that was a good answer. That was probably the best answer that I have in mind here. But that was the, I mean, but like when you think about like, hey, what's something that you thought you messed up in year one? Yeah, there was that one game against Cleveland right and file up three. Yeah, Steve, Steve, the Steve Nash is definitely beloved by his players. Like that, that's the one thing I did notice is when I was talking to Cam, Cam, Cam Thomas, the way that him and Steve Nash interacted, big smiles on their faces, big, you know, Joe Harris seems to really like him.

A lot of the young guys seem to like Steve Nash. Seems very respected. And that coaching staff, I'll tell you what, Chris, before we were recording. Sasha, our producer and I were talking about the first time we felt old at a concert. She saw this artist Princess Nokia in San Francisco. I saw a couple of years ago in Dallas, King Princess. That's the first time I felt old at a concert. The first time I felt old at a practice was last week in San Diego.

When I see Amari Stottemeyer, Kyle Korver, Steve Nash, some of these guys that I grew up watching as players. and they're all on the same exact coaching staff. And I'm just like, dang, dude. Like, I'm in my 30s. I mean, like, I don't feel old. I still feel super young. But in my head, like, just seeing the Marist daughter,

Meyer working with Dayron Sharp in a corner of then walk over and talk to another reporter. It's like, whoa, dude. This is weird. That's the first time I felt old was seeing the Nets coaching staff with all those former great players. You have no idea. the first time. Look, obviously, I've done events and I know Penny Hardaway well now. That was my favorite player when I was a kid. That Memphis staff must make you feel like an ancient Rashid Wallace. I mean, Larry Brown's like 100 years old. He's on the staff. Larry Brown being

there too. It's the craziest thing. And you know who I ran into yesterday? I ran into Mike Miller and Mike Miller, I don't know how many people know this. He moved in the off-sum. season. So he was a college coach at Memphis and then he coached his son's high school team. His son is going to Creighton this upcoming years. Very good. Mason Miller. And now he is an agent. And you know, he represents, yeah, because I was talking to him about, he represents a couple different players, one of which is a player that he actually recruited to Memphis that didn't end up at Memphis is R.J. Hampton. So he's in the agent world. now.

Mike Miller is in the agent world now, really? Real adult stuff. I know. You're talking like tattooed Miami Heat, Memphis Grizzlies Mike Miller. He's an agent now. Wow. I did not know that. He represents RJ Hampton.

I did not know that. I know. Very interesting. I actually ran into him yesterday. And all of those guys make me feel intensely old, right? I just Googled it. It refreshed my mind. He was training RJ Hampton.

He was. Now he's become his. agent. Okay. Correct. That's interesting. I think that's a similar, I mean, much different because Mike Miller is a former player, but similar in the sense to Deeran Fox's agent. Deeran Fox was formerly trained by Christopher Gaston for years. Those guys worked together. And then Chris Gaston created his own agency, family first sports. It represents Deeran Fox. I think Damien Dotson, who I'm not sure is with a team right now, but a number of different guys, including Fox. So I don't know, maybe that's a path towards agency, you know, from, go from trainer to agent.

At that time, see, Hampton was going to play at the University of Memphis. It really came down to Memphis and I think Texas Tech. And he was going to go to Memphis, but then he went overseas and played there instead. That was the decision he made a couple of years ago when he played for that New Zealand Breakers team. Yes. But yeah, now Miller is in the agent world. But it's guys like that.

Like you think about Mike Miller, you think about Penny Hardaway, you think about Rashid Wallace, like all these guys, they're all like agents and coaches and doing all this kind of different stuff now. So Mike Miller's working with Dan Frank, I see then. Gotcha. And Happy Walters. Okay. All right. So with catalyst then, I see.

Interesting. Mike Miller, bouncing around. I mean, Mike Miller's getting a lot of different basketball experience. I know it. Training. Agent. I wonder at some point, like NBA front office. it seems like he's dipping his toes everywhere.

That's a smart thing to do. He was offered at one point to do that. I recall a couple of years ago. I don't know if you remember this story I told you, but he had been asked at one point to come on as a, I don't know, maybe not full front office role, like daily being there because his kids were still in high school. but with the nets when they acquired Kyrie.

Because him and Kyrie are thick as thieves. They are big buddies. And so the idea was, hey, and this is before all the other guys came aboard, right? Once they had made the Kyrie deal, it was like, hey, here's a guy who has this kind of background who would be very good to have in the fold as almost like a, you know, and in between. Sure. Yeah. And somebody that could talk to him in a way that maybe management couldn't always talk to him.

And I think that's probably a reasonable idea from Sean Marks. Obviously, that didn't come to fruition, but it was something that was brought up. Somebody hands-on who could be like his guy. Somebody hands-on. That's important to have for a lot of coaching staffs. For sure. They don't. Yeah.

So I'm with you. Look, it is interesting, though, is I got done with your Nets article and you walk away. clearly thinking about what you already knew, which is that the Nets have a chance to be a very special team. On the other hand, it is that first part about the Karee, which is a question we will not have an answer to for a while. And that is, you know, I do look and you would say, maybe you could throw Miami or Boston or maybe you put them a tier lower.

But if we're talking about Philly and we're talking about Milwaukee and we're talking about the net. It is interesting to be. Milwaukee is the one with the no distractions. You know what I mean? None. Philly's got their stuff going on that could really sabotage stuff. And the nets, you don't expect it to sabotage stuff.

But given the health history of those guys and this chyrie thing that's hanging out there, like Milwaukee's the one that, like, they won the championship. They're coming back for this year. and there's no stories that you could even, that you would look at and you would say, this is something that could mess up a good thing. And I do think that they're, you know, they're the one that's going to get the least amount of talk, even though they are a returning champion. And yet, of the ones that would be considered favorites in the East,

they're probably the safest of the ones to bank on. Wouldn't you agree? Totally, totally. I mean, I think Milwaukee in some ways has been a little bit overlooked here. We're always looking for the fresh new team or player. But the Bucks brought everybody back except for PJ Tucker. I mean, replacing Tucker is important, the presence that he has, the attitude that he brings to the floor. I mean, I'm not saying, Shemi O'Jolaying, Grayson Allen and the war, are going to be like answers replacing him.

But, you know, you can do it by committee. and maybe some other guys get better. Maybe in this playoff run, Dante DiVincenzo is healthy. And maybe DeVincenzo gets even better over the course of the season. This Bucs team is still loaded. They still have Yannis who could still get even better as a player. No stop in Chris Middleton from making further improvements either. So with this Bucs team, yeah, Chris, they've been overlooked.

I'm not sure what else there is to say about them in the sense that they are very much the same team. There are a couple of things that have taken place in the preseason that have stood out. to us. We wanted to chronicle, and this is not necessarily overreactions, but rather things that have intrigued us about this upcoming season that we have gathered from what has taken place in the very small amount of preseason games that have taken, that have happened so far. All right, Kevin, do you want to start or you want me to? Yeah, I'll start off. We've mentioned them a couple times in recent weeks.

Jordan Poole, I really think a leap's about to happen. I do. I feel like all the evidence is there. We saw end of year two. As we talked about recently, he started a pop end of the season for the Warriors, dropping 30 regularly. I mean, he looked awesome. It's so far carrying over in two preseason games against the Blazers and against the

nuggets. And both of them, he looks spectacular on offense. He looked like he was playing a controlled brand of basketball and also firing away from three point range. I really think like the. the year three, C.J. McCollum leap that happened when C.J.

McCollum didn't do a lot, his first two years of the Blazers, like watching that Portland game against the Blazers, I was thinking, dang, is that about to happen here with Jordan Poole? And if it is, that changes everything we're talking about with this team.

If they have another guy who can go off for 20 plus on any particular night, not saying he's going to average that. But if he can do that on any particular night, that's a new X factor for that team that we're not talking about when everybody's saying Clay's the X factor. Well, Jordan Poole could be as well. This guy looks legit, very legit. Could be a most improved player of the year candidate. And one of the things that we've talked about in the past is when you are at games or you watch these games, sometimes if a guy has a spectacular game, then you are left with a different impression that isn't always reality, right?

Because the night you saw him, so you have an inflated opinion about a guy. And if there was ever one that was like that, it was Jordan Poole. Because as I watched him last year in person, he averaged over 20 points against the Grizzlies, including in one of the games, had 26 points. He was banging down threes. He was assist. He was everything. It was like he was.

doing a Clay Thompson impression. And as we had mentioned in our last episode, I knew some people connected to Clay, and he was, he'd been in L.A. working out. It was Clay and Jordan Poole. Those are the two guys that were working out together this offseason. And so the idea that in many ways, he would be able to mimic Clay or play in that same kind of way.

I mean, if you're working out with a guy every day and doing the same drills every day, you know, are trying to become, you know, trying to replicate the best you can. You know, Clay Thompson is one of the greatest shooters to ever walk the planet. And so that, of course, is probably a bridge too far. But I don't think it's irrational to think that there could be another step forward and possibly a major step forward for him, you know, playing in that role. No doubt about it. I'm with you. I'm with you. I could see that happening too.

And the result at the end of the season were good. And the results so far that we have seen in the preseason are very good. Looking really good. You just get such an opportunity. I mean, look, when people run out. He's going to start without Clay, you know? You also see people doubling the point guard at mid court. Yeah.

You get a lot of good looks. You know what I mean? You got to be able to knock them down. All right. My first one is someone that we have not mentioned or talked about. I was a huge fan of his coming out of college and then his rookie year. And it struck me the other night flipping around that this guy could actually play a major role in a contender. And I thought about it from an angle that I had not before.

And that is Tyrese Maxie. So Tyrese Maxie, who I think is extremely good, many people thought he should have played more during their postseason run last year. In the case that there is something, look, you're not going to get the full version of Ben Simmons. We know that for a fact right now, right? We know that at best he comes back and he's sitting around moping until they do something with him. Okay. They've made that clear from their end.

And so somebody's going to have to man these guard rolls. You don't know if they're going to trade for one. You don't know what they're going to get in return for this. They've been starting to shake Milton, but I think what you're eventually going to see is that Maxi ends up being the starting point guard for the Philadelphia 76ers, and that's on a team that wants to win right now. And this is the angle that we have not talked about that I did wonder.

Do you think that this is playing out in the exact, same way that it is if Clutch doesn't have Maxie. And when I say is Clutch doing the same thing, I mean this in the sense of they have what I believe is going to be the eventual point guard in Philadelphia. And so with the Simmons thing, if he gets moved, it does help two-fold, you know, because they still have the point guard there. And so now we've got Ben Simmons.

wherever we've got Ben Simmons, but we still have the starting point guard in Philly, playing with Embed, and now we know this kid is going to get the opportunity that we think he is not going to get if Ben Simmons is there for the next four years. Yeah, that's very interesting, Chris, because let's just say at some point,

Maurice, like, so Shom Sharani had a report today that the Sixers asked for three first round picks and three pick swaps from the Blazers, in addition to C.J. McCollum for Ben Simmons. Let's say eventually something along those lines happen. If you're clutch, you get Ben Simmons in Portland with Damien Lillard. What a perfect combination those two could be. Wow. That could be spectacular. Shades of Stefan Dream on on offense. And then in Philly, you get Maxie starting at a backcourt next to C.J. McCollum

with Joel LeBeed at Center. I don't know. That seems pretty smart. Chris, you might be on to something here. You know? I like it. I like it. Are you in Rich Paul's ear? No, you should be, Chris. No, Adele is.

That's a, that's a same. You see she's got a new album coming out? I can't wait. Are you an Del fan, Chris? I'm an Adele fan. I like Adele. She's got some real bangers.

Who does I love Adel? I'm going to say, Adele's one of those artists where I feel like you can be Larry Brown and you can like Adel. You can be 80 years old. 100%. Yes. She's just got timeless music.

Yes. If you met somebody and they say, I just hate Adele, do not trust that person. They're not trustworthy. It's not a trustworthy. It's somebody that hates Adel is not trustworthy. Who could possibly, right? She has timeless hits that are going to live forever. That's right.

But I'm not. She's always going to have fans. I love Adele. I am not the one in Rich Paul's ear. I'm just saying, I wonder if this is not. not a conspiracy. I'm saying you've got a guy who's unhappy, who's on what? He's on a four-year deal. We're going to get a text later. Don't just dare talk about my girlfriend. It's not, we love her. I know. I'm just saying. What I'm saying is it's you are standing in the way of

Maxie if you have Simmons on that team for four years. Yeah, yeah. It's smart. It really is. That's a, That's a big brain play. So now we got two. That's a big, big brain play. You could say, hey, we think Maxie,

because look, he ain't getting a Mac contract if he's playing backup point card for the next three or four years. And so now we can have Simmons in a better spot in our mind, and our guy's still going to be the point guard in Philly. Because I think Maxie is special.

I do. Yeah, he could be really good. And that's a great position to be in, too. And I think he's a great position to be in, too. he will supplant shake Milton sooner than later. You know. Yeah. I mean,

it was shake. Shakes more of an off ball guy. Like shake. Shake. He's a heater. He's a heater. Yeah. And then like what you know,

here and there have him run some pick and roll. But Max, he's more of that facilitator type. That's right. I mean, that balance makes a lot more sense for the Sixers starting five. If Doc Rivers eventually, you know,

falls upon it. Like Doc, like I said, always favors the vets. That's the way he's got Seth Curry and he's got shake Milton. in the starting five. I'm with you though, Chris, eventually Shake-Millan, even though he's only going to be 21

at some point this season, he should slide into that starting five. All right, quick 20-second timeout. If you're Portland, would you do that deal? So, CJ McCollum, three first-round picks unprotected and three first-round pick swaps for Ben Simmons.

I would wait. I would wait and try to get that price lower. There's risk in doing that. They could go the other way, because Daryl Borey very well believes that he could get Damien lowered at some point. So, like, he wants to hold out for that. He wants to wait. I reported this last week.

The Sixers want to wait until December or January to make a deal. They want to wait. Like, they want to wait for Damien lowered for the chance that Dame becomes available or Beale becomes available or someone surprising becomes available. But I do think that Blazers situation there also deserves some patience because, Because instead of giving up all of your picks for a guy who, you know, four years left on his deal and then what. And is that any guarantee to keep dame? I don't know.

I'm not sure about that. That could restrict you further. I think you get to wait it out if you're Portland as well. So both sides here, in my opinion, have real serious reasons, real reasonable, you know, paths here towards waiting. It's just a matter of how it unfolds in the way there. Because the one other thing in that Shams, Sean, your report today, like, it's. It's the way he phrased it. I'm really, you know, like he phrased it like this. Mori has had conversations with Rich Paul about bringing Ben Simmons back, but thus far,

Simmons has resisted. That's the language Shams used. Shams is very plugged in with clutch sports. That's the language that he used. And maybe Shams was just speaking off the dome. But parsing through those words very, very carefully, my impression. My impression from what the shop shams said is that rich paul and the sixers would love for ben simmons not to be fined hundreds of thousands and potentially millions of dollars ben simmons may be willing to get lose that money so we'll see how this plays out but that's that was something to something to keep in mind in the coming weeks all right give me your next thing that's intrigued you from the preseason so far let's go with uh let's go with this year's drafts evan mowgli on the cleveland cavaliers i mean

I just thought his defense was extraordinary for a rookie in his first week of preseason action. It is everything in more that you could have expected from him coming out of USC where this guy just seemed like a seasoned, grizzled veteran. He just looked terrific, rotating, altering shots around the rim. It was shades of green light, red light, and squid game where any movement, he'll get you, swat you away, he'll eliminate you. I just loved watching Evan Mowbly play defense, and it looks like the real deal for the Cavaliers.

And if you can't tell if you listen to this program, I have talked about Cleveland and Darius Garland a lot in recent weeks. We both love Colin Sexton. Chris, I am high on Cleveland, at least as a team that could hit the over. What's their over under, like 27 and a half or something like that? I think because of Mowgli's defense, the development of Garland and Sexton in that bad court, O'Coro is a versatile, switchable. defender. The Cavs have a lot of young talent. They do. And I'd be hammering the over for them.

You know, it was a few weeks ago, the great Jackie McMullen was on with Ben Simmons. And she had done this long interview with Steph Curry. And she mentioned in passing that when she was talking with Steph Curry about who the next guys are, that the one of the guys that he singled out that said is going to be a big star. And here's a little head. And here's a little heads up for everybody out there that's a big collector. If you want to rock with Steph, his answer was Darius Garland. Really? Oh, okay.

He was. He thinks Garland is going to be a big star in the NBA. And I'll tell you this, low stock right now, low stock in terms of collectibles. So if you want to, if you want to rock with Steph, usually, you know, there's the old phrase, game-recognized game. And I'll tell you, once upon a time, the first time I ever heard John Morant's name was after a Nike camp that Kevin Durant had been at.

And Kevin Durant went on with Bill and said, I love the kid at Murray State, John Moran. And it put him on my radar and I started watching all his games when he was in college. And so there's a little word to the wise. Jackie McMullough did mention that. People can go find that on Bill's podcast. that had Jackie on it a few weeks ago, but she said that when she sat down with Curry, that's the guy he talked about,

Darius Garland. So we're saying, listen to Steph Curry because he's going to nail it with Garland. Listen to Katie. He nailed it with John Moran. Don't listen to LeBron James ever about his player evaluation because of Chavez-Mapia.

Or Ben McClure. Or Ben McElmore. That's what we're saying here. Game does not always recognize game. Yes. All right. The next one. One other quick thing.

Kevin Durant used to do. I wanted to ask him about this when I was in San Diego, but his media scrum ended. He used to do some like videos on his YouTube channel, breaking down young high school basketball players. I just thought they were really cool. I thought they were great videos. And you want him to bring him back?

Yeah. Yeah. I was going to say to him, like, do you ever, have you watched any of like the young guys coming up? Chad Holmgren, Victor Wanban Yamah, like some of these international big, you know, big guys like, you know, Victor Dubb or like I said, Chad Holmgren from America. I was just curious. Yeah, if he had watched any of them. Of course he has. He's a basketball head.

Yeah, and I think he is too. I'd love to watch more Katie breakdowns of those guys. Next. Yeah, who do you got, Chris? The Bulls! Oh, yeah, the Bulls. Yeah. We wanted to see him.

I'm glad you mentioned that. I'm very glad. Look, we wanted to see them, and we wanted to see kind of what it was going to look like. We said that going into the preseason, you want to see what rookies look like. You want to see if some of these teams are going to, you know, try to get some run with the new lineups. That would be the circumstance in which veteran guys would actually get some run in a preseason versus some of the teams that bring back their rosters. So they don't play anybody, right?

You're not going to go to a game, but you're not going to watch a lot of LeBron and Westbrook and Anthony Davis running out there together a bunch. You're not going to see Milwaukee running out all their guys a bunch during the preseason. But you might see some more of teams that have totally new look lineups. And so we did see, I mean, their game that they started out with, Levine played 24 minutes, DeRosen played 25 minutes,

Lonzo played 25 minutes, Vucevic played 23 minutes, Caruso came off the bench and played 20 minutes. And so there were some guys that weren't in the lineup, but you know, you look up and down, their plus minuses when those guys were on the floor. And yes, we are aware it's preseason. but when the numbers are so extreme, you have to bear notice, right? With Zach Levine on the floor, they were plus 45. With Vuzovich on the floor,

they were plus 45. With Lanzo on the floor, they were plus 39. So, I mean, they beat the shit out of the calves when they played their players. You know? And it's one of those things

where it's like, all right, the best case scenario, is this is just so much offensive firepower. And if it can work together and play together, yeah, they're going to be defensive deficient in some ways. But you're going to have to score with them because they've got what? At least three guys, maybe four,

that on any given night, if they had 30 or 40 points, you wouldn't be like, oh, my God. you know, I mean, Vosovic could give you a 30. If Lanzo shoots the ball like he looked like on the Instagram videos this summer, you know, you never know what his point totals could be some nights. Obviously, Levine was one of the best scores in the league. DeRosen has been one of the best scores in the NBA for the last decade. And so is there a scenario where it just, it does all work?

and they're just a team that on a given night, you're going to have to put up 120 to beat them. Maybe, maybe. It certainly is intriguing, you know? And I thought their, I thought their defense looks pretty good. It's just preseason. I mean, we'll see how it lasts midway through game 45,

but I thought their defense looked pretty good, Chris. I do. I mean, I think individually, Zach Levine, we talked about him over the summer, how he stepped up for Team USA. Feels like that could carry on. Alex Caruso, terrific. Lonzo Ball looked better than he did in New Orleans.

That's for freaking sure. He fell off in New Orleans, just like Brandon Inger did after leaving L.A. But he looked great. Game one for Chicago. We'll see if this carries on. It's just the, we're running it out there for the first time. Here's what it looks like. And they were devastating.

Exactly. Like the first time, the first time we saw them, when those guys were on the floor, it was devastating. Yes. They look great. I mean, offensively,

and also one other thing about them on offense, they were screening for each other. That's a little thing, but it's really a big thing. Like they were, it wasn't stagnant. They weren't just running high pick and roll.

They weren't just, you know, taking turns. They were screening for each other in the half court, helping create some movement off the ball, helping create opportunities guys to catch the ball

and then attack against a rotating, you know, defense that's out of position. I thought the early indicators for the Chicago Bulls are that this is a team that will at least meet expectations and probably surpass them and will at the worst won't underwhelm. They won't underwhelm that this team like so far looking like they're going to meet or surpass expectations. I'm feeling good about them, Chris. All right. Your next one.

Let's go with another specific player here. All players for me. Kelden Johnson with San Antonio Spurs like it's not like he did anything new necessarily he just did more of it and looked more refined doing it in recent years Kelton Johnson

like Spurs fans have kind of fallen in love with him because he just rumbles towards the basket and is so powerful and strong and can finish so well inside for a wing I thought he looks slick off the dribble he had some nice crossovers and Euro steps he just looked more smooth, more fluid off the bounce. It just felt like an expansion of his game that we didn't

see as much in recent years on a higher volume. So for San Antonio, like, who are they? What are they going to be? What are they becoming? When are they going to be a playoff team again? Just watch their youth. And I think you look at the Spurs, whether it's Kelden Johnson or some of the other young guys, like whether it's Murray, White, Pertle, whoever it may be, Primo, who we talked about earlier in the week. I really like a lot of the young talent on the Spurs. I don't think they have a superstar unless Prima or to turn into that. I don't think Kelden Johnson is that.

But Kelden Johnson has all the qualities of like a guy on a championship team that just makes winning plays on both ends of the floor. I love him so much. I love Kelden Johnson too. According to basketball reference, Johnson started 26 games last season where he played between 30 and 39 minutes in those games. He averaged 16 points on 50% shooting, 38% from 3 with almost 8 rebounds. He's just really good.

It's not like we didn't see it, right? When given the opportunity, he put up numbers last year. And I just pulled this article I read on Hoops hype. One NBA executive had told Hoops hype, Johnson will have more runway this year with DeMardo Rosen gone. He'll entrench himself as a starter. when he's gotten minutes he produces, he's vastly improved his shooting. And then they go on to talk about how he had that opportunity

to play with Greg Popovich at Team USA in Tokyo. And that could reap tremendous benefits for him. We have seen guys after they have had that Olympic experience come back and it have a profound impact on their game. And so he is certainly one to keep an eye out for, Kelton Johnson, to say the least. He's a major talent. Yeah. My next one is the Rockets are making a run at the league pass team.

Okay. All right. All right. Number one, the Jalen Green hair is just unbelievable. We have not seen. We had the Kobe White, you know, and Kobe cut it all off. But there's always that guy that would you flip it on that if you're watching with somebody that doesn't watch the NBA, they're like, who's that guy with the hair? And so Jalen Green is not doing anything to not stand out. And you know that we talked about his chip on his shoulder. And there's only one guy drafted ahead of him. And yet he talks like, you know, there's 50 guys drafted ahead of him.

It bothers him so much. But I'm just saying in between him, Josh Christopher and your guy, Shengoon, like. Shengoon. They're ones to like go, like, sometimes there's these teams that aren't going to win a bunch of games. Everybody loved watching Cleveland, you know, in spots. You know, on those random nights where there's not a lot on and you're flipping around.

It's just the, it's the young guys that are fun. And I will say that the Shengun thing is. is fun and the Jalen Green thing is fun. Now, will they be at the top of league pass rankings as compared to other teams that have young talent? We talked about Orlando, you know, recently as a team that,

you know, if they're on, they have a collection of some young, fun players that are worth watching. But I do think that there are going to be, there's going to be times where, you wouldn't normally think you're trying to watch a team that's not going to win very many games, but just because of the individuals that they have. Not all rookies are fun,

but they got fun ones. And I do think that you're going to see some Jalen Green. My prediction would be you're going to see some Jalen Green 40 point nights this year. I think that's reasonable. I do. I really do. But that is on common. You don't see that from rookies. but you see like he's going to be the guy. He's going to be the guy. There's going to be nights where he's taking a bunch of shots. And so am I saying it's going to be common that he's scoring that amount? No, but he's going to score.

And there's going to be some nights where he scores a lot because he is, boy, he is talented. And the hair is just off the meter fun. I don't even know what it is. I don't even know how you get that hair. I mean, I wish I could. I wish I was that good look to pull something off like that.

Unbelievable. It's like not a flowing locks. Well, you remember how much we love Jared Allen's like perfect fro. Yeah. Right? His perfect fro.

You know, Jalen Green, not only the whole look, the swag, he also, I mean, he's going to score a ton of points. And then the Shenkoon thing

is just fun because you could see yourself yelling at the screen. Shang-goon! Jalen Green is going to score a lot. A lot. Somebody's got to. I mean, teams score 100-something points a night.

Where are they getting that? He's going to score a lot, man. He's going to score a ton. That's for sure. Yeah. Houston. That was my third one because I found myself going out of my way to watch them just because of them.

You know, and even in the preseason, I just want to watch them play basketball. who's your next one? Next one, Anthony Edwards and the Minnesota Timberwolves defense. I thought Edwards looked like a new man on the defensive end of the floor. His off ball defense, his attentiveness, his intensity, jumping passing lanes, helping doing the simple stuff, like helping inside on somebody driving or rolling to the rim and then rotating back to his man. I thought Anthony Edwards looked like a far more mature of player on that defensive end of the floor.

And we talk about him with his size and athleticism in potential on defense. It was merely just potential entering his rookie year out of Georgia. We saw flashes last season as a rookie, but he just looked like a more refined player to me in that single game. Again, one game, whoop they do. It's one game. It's one game, but one game that he had against the pelicans earlier this week. I came away feeling overall the T-Wolves look more connected on defense, particularly again, like I said, Anthony Edwards, he looked like a potential wingstopper

and a guy who could be relied upon off the ball. And that in combination with everything else with this team, with Kat, potentially taking a leap, with D. Lowe, maybe those guys will actually be healthy this year. McDaniels being as great as he is individually on defense, you know, bringing in someone like Patrick Beverly, add at all to, together and maybe finally Minnesota will look like a team that actually is competent and compete and can compete for a playing spot or a playoff spot. So I came away impressed by Minnesota, Chris. All right. The last one I'm going to hit. So we just talked about League

Pass last year. Everybody went out of their way to watch Lamello and Charlotte. That was a team. So I intensely watched Memphis play against Charlotte last night. And so there are some that could say this is an overreaction. But I'm telling you, this is not an overreaction. This is reality. And I know that our boss, Bill Simmons, he loves Charlotte and the idea of the Charlotte over. And Charlotte bets out this year. Let me just make a word to the wise to everybody, because I love that Charlotte.

team, but I'm going to tell you something that is absolute reality. Your bet on Charlotte this upcoming year, or wherever you predict Charlotte, this upcoming year, that is a bet on Gordon Hayward's health. If they don't have him, they will not be good. Trust me on this. They were terrible last year without Hayward. You remember, they were like fourth or fifth. He is the sneaky most important.

I really believe this, that Gordon Hayward, if you throw him in that lineup and you have him for the majority of the season, that's a team that much like last year is going to be able to compete. And many nights at a high level, because they've got a lot of pieces. But when you extract him and you put in Cody Martin or whoever you're going to put in, that team all of a sudden, it's a, it's a, radically different team. And they were like a fourth or fifth seed last year when they had Hayward. And then they hung on for Deer Life, got to the play in, and then they got their ass kicked when they got time for that. And whatever you think Charlotte is going to do this year, I'm telling you that that's a bet

on Hayward's health. If he's healthy, I again think that they could be. pretty good to possibly very good team. If he's not healthy, they are not going to be good. Like they, he is the weirdly, he is the sneaky, most important non-star, like superstar, is what I would say, superstar. And because sometimes we talk about it, it's what do you replace it with? And what they replace it with is, you know, when you're on the hook and you're paying

somebody like that. Obviously, Rozier got his bag. Like, he's got to be healthy. He's got to be available for you. And so just be careful. You're banking on Hayward Health. And if he stays healthy, they will hit winovers and they will be good.

But if he can't make it through the season, when you extract him from that lineup, it might be even more rough than it was last year. How much does James Book Knight, their rookie guard, who you like a lot? Yeah. Is that, that's not, it's too much to ask for him to step up in that role. And plus there's some positional and responsibility overlap with Rosier and Ball.

You also lost some depth, man, because Devante Graham is not there anymore. Malik Monk isn't there anymore. And I know Monk got hurt last year also. But like, you lost some depth on that, on that team. You know, Zellers now over in Portland. You lost some depth on that team. look past their top five, and you're going to start to realize that when Hayward's out of that lineup, it gets pretty rough, pretty quick. Now, Book Knight was mega impressive to me. He's going to

be able to score on the NBA level, and he is one of those guys that when you watch him with his length and athleticism and scoring ability, that if he reaches his potential, he could be a very special talent in the NBA, for sure. because he's got the, he's got, he's got so many athletic and advantages. And he could be very special. But again, he's going to be going through this for the first time. You know, it's not easy going through it for the first time. And you certainly can't expect him to replace guys that were third and fourth year players to play that role,

to be able to catch you the, you know, there were nights where Malik Monk could come in there, hit a heater and win you a game at the beginning of the season. Same way with Devante Graham. And it's just the way the ball moves and the way it all works together with Hayward in there. And so just watching it's a connector. Yeah.

He connects everything. Watching them last night, I thought to myself, God bless, this is rough without him in the lineup. And of course, look, it's not like I'm making some got a bold statement. They sucked without him last year. I mean, they went from a, a four or five seed to literally a losing team when he wasn't in the lineup last year. And so they need him.

And so they were before he would, they were 25 and 23 at the time Hayward season ended on April 2nd last season. So they were 25 and 23. And then they closed the year at 33 and 39. They won eight more games. Eight and 16. Yeah. And I watched what they looked like last night without him.

I don't care if it's preseason or not. I watched them in the preseason last year, and I was like, man, they bounced the ball around. They really share the ball. They got some heaters that come off the bench. And for what it's worth, before he was out for the whole year, he missed four games. There were one and three in those games. So not good. Not good the whole year without Gordon Hayward in there.

Not good. That's right. All right. So we have certainly noticed some things so far that have intrigued us for this upcoming NBA season. As I mentioned, Kevin, we got 11 days. Who's the most likely to pull an urban Meyer this year? You mean just get caught at a bar? I'm not sure what I mean.

It's just a thought of my mind. I guess I mean be irresponsible. and then say it's not my job to motivate or, you know, keep the team in line. I don't think we have any coaches like that. I don't think so either. I really don't in that sense. Yeah, I don't think. I think the NBA is free of that.

And I also think that they are, they're much more careful. These guys now have a spotlight on them from the time they're 15 years old and cameras on them and people watching their Instagrams and their TikToks and everything else. So they have an awareness of consequences for actions that sometimes guys that have been absolute kings of city. Sure. In college, nobody's ratting out the college coach that is the mega success.

And so you get this sense of power or this sense of I don't have to be as responsible as some of my peers because nobody's trying to bury me or look for what I'm doing. wrong, but that's a different deal when you, when you're an NFL coach that's losing. Yeah, dude. You're not King of City anymore. It's bad there down in Jacksonville. Poor Trevor Lawrence. Poor Trevor Lawrence.

Should have pulled an Eli Manning. He deserves better. Eli was on our program recently, 10 questions with Kyle Brandt and talked about like that decision, you know, to leave, you know, to push his way away from the San Diego chargers and go to the New York Giants and. How his dad absorbed some blame? And I mean, I'm not saying Trevor Lawrence should have done that, but or could have done that, I should say.

But he should have at least considered more strongly. It looks bad there, dude. You were talking about feeling old. You're talking about feeling old. Yeah. You can't feel older than I did yesterday. What happened? Eli Manning tweeted out,

I guess about this program that he's doing at ESPN, that it was great to sit down with Matt Jones, who was the former Arkansas quarterback. Oh, Matt Jones. Yeah, yeah. After, after, I liked him a lot. After 20 years, it's been 20 years since the Ole Miss, Arkansas, seven overtime, epic college football game. Kevin, I was on the field.

Really? Wow. I covered that game. 20 years. I was like, geez. Wow. What? What?

Seven overtimes. Seven overtimes. overtimes that game went to. And I will tell you that there's very few players. Matt Jones in that overtime, I mean, I was right next to the field. That guy was taking strides at the five and then taking another stride like at the 10 yard line. And I remember when I saw him up close, I thought that was the fastest football player I had ever seen like up close. And he ran like a four two or something.

I think when he was going into the NFL, they turned him into a receiver. Yeah, it didn't work out with Jacksonville. But he had some good moments. He had good moments. He was tall and he like strided like frigging Usain Bolt. That dude was so fast. That game was so amazing. But I can't but 20 friggin years.

You got to be kidding me. You think nowadays would Matt Jones be like a Taysome Hill? Maybe. His size, six foot six and his speed. Because the way New Orleans uses Taysam Hill is sort of like a, it's a formula for what could have worked for Matt Jones. If at the time the NFL was more open to like, you know, positionless players like that. That's right. I don't know.

I wonder, you know, could that have worked out for him? Maybe he was a dangerous player. Yeah, dude. He was, he was fast. He was six, six, six, seven. He's a tall receiver. He's big. But, I mean, when he was playing quarterback, I've never seen anybody run as fast in,

person. I thought it was just ludicrous how fast this guy was. But yeah, 20 years since then. I could not have felt older yesterday with Eli Manning. The years do go by quickly, don't they, Chris. Man, you tell them. They go by quickly. Jeez, Louise. Kevin, it is always a pleasure. We got 11 days until the NBA season is going to begin. We'll do some season predictions next season in preparation for said opening of the season. Thank you to our executive producer, Sasha Ashall, as always, and we will talk to you next week. Tuesday's going to be here before we know, Chris. Have a good weekend, everybody.