The Mismatch - Embiid Returns, Brunson Shines, And Celtics-Bucks Deep Dive | The Void

Episode Date: May 7, 2022

Hey it’s Kevin, thank you for listening to The Void. The Ringer’s Rob Mahoney joined first to recap Friday night’s games and previewed Game 3 of Grizzlies-Warriors. Then I brought on two friends from my days covering the Celtics to go deep on Boston-Milwaukee ahead of Game 3: Jay King and Jared Weiss from The Athletic. Here are today’s timestamps: Rob Mahoney (01:51) - Joel Embiid’s impact (07:42) - Should the Heat be worried? (13:03) - On Mavs-Suns (22:05) - Grizzlies-Warriors preview Jay King & Jared Weiss (31:37) - Differences for Celtics in Game 1 and 2 (35:33) - Grant Williams and his defense  (50:41) - Can Giannis do anything differently? (01:02:38) - Predictions for rest of series  Host: Kevin O'Connor Guest: Rob Mahoney, Jay King, and Jared Weiss Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's popping, everybody? This is Logan Murdoch, and I'm here with my co-host for the Real Ones podcast on the Ringer NBA show, The Incomparable, the realist, the man who invented the pregame Red Bull Snow Cone. Raja Bell. Thank you, Logan. You're far too kind, sir. Did you know that the Ringer NBA show feed now has six podcasts a week?

Six. Every Sunday, Big Was has a different guest from the NBA world on weekends with Was. And you can find me and Rajah every Monday and Thursday on Real Ones where we cover all the most interesting NBA storylines. On Tuesdays, Jay Kyle Mann and Jonathan Charks discuss up-and-coming talent in college basketball and the NBA. And on Wednesdays, you can hear Justin Barrier, Rob Mahoney, and Big Was discuss any and everything going on in the world of hoops.

Man, and on Friday, Chris Ryan and Syrac so he asked the big questions on the answer. So head over to the Ringer NBA show's Spotify page and take a listen. There's so much to dive into. And while you're there, just go ahead and give us a follow too. Thank you for listening to The Void. My name is Kevin O'Connor. And joining me today to recap Friday night's games is Rob Mahoney from the ringer.com. What's going on, Rob?

Not a lot. Took in some good basketball tonight, caught up on another great game. So it's been an action-packed night, to say the least. So you were in Philly for the great return of Joel and Bede. And we saw the Sixers make this a series. They won 99 to 79 over Miami in Game 3 and Beathead. 18 points on 5 at 12 shooting, 8 of 10 from the line. made obviously a significant difference in the game to have Joel and beatback.

How much of a difference, Rob, wasn't for Philadelphia having a beatback in the series? I mean, a monumental difference. Just a profound change from the first two games of the series on both sides of the ball. And that's kind of what you would expect of a player of Joel's caliber. But it's another thing to expect it. It's one thing to expect it and another thing to see it, especially against a team like the Heat, who are pretty smart, are pretty clever, play really hard. they just had nothing they could do with Joelle in a lot of instances,

or in some cases would go out of their way to try to prevent Joel from getting to certain spots and would oversell and then leave openings for Tyrese Maxie or James Hardin or so many other guys to get involved. And then defensively, I think, is where maybe even the biggest difference was the Sixers defense. And what it looks like with, you're not going to believe this, how different it looks with Joel Embed versus D'Andre Jordan in the middle. Who knew? Yeah, DJ through those first two games. Part of the understands Doc going to the veteran, the trusted vet that he'll coached for years over Paul Reed. Paul Reed, he also had his own struggles to the first two games too.

And you can only go small for so long. But having Joel and beat back, I mean, the big difference, like if you're really breaking down to as simple as it gets, points. Bam, game one, 24 points. Game two, 23 points. Game three, he scored nine points on two of nine shoots. bottled up by Ambide. He wasn't able to get those easy drives down the lane, easy rolls into the paint.

Embed's difference in the defensive end was really, like, enormous already in his first game back. And he should be and can be even better offensively. I mean, that's where you're, if you're a Sixers fans watching tonight's game, I think,

you know, I'd be feeling like, okay, we didn't get 8 plus Embed, and we still won by 20. do you feel like this is suddenly a brand new series where Philly is right back in this or is there any reason to feel that

you know, this is just a one for Philly and Miami gets right back game four. Well, there's just less margin for error because you're starting down O2 but the dynamics have completely changed. All the matchups, as you mentioned, Bam off the top. I thought Bam was the best player in the series

through the first two games and he was rendered pretty much irrelevant by Joelle and Bid being there. I really want to go back and watch in the fourth quarter. He tried to run a bunch of Kyle Lowry, Bam, pick and roll. And they just weren't getting anywhere with it.

Like, you know, Bam was kind of short rolling into the paint and Joelle's in front of him and there's nothing he can do. Like, all the shooters were covered. Lowry was, I think, a little bit reluctant. This was his first game in this series after coming back.

And he wasn't great injury. He really wasn't either. You know, he's going to, you know, take time to settle into things for sure. And they just, like, didn't have options against Joelle in those situations. And to your point, This is not full speed, Joelle.

This is not 100% MVP form. This is a guy who while he was doing warmups had to stop two or three times hands on his knees to catch his breath. That's where he is conditioning-wise right now because when you're in the concussion protocol like that, you can't really do anything. He hasn't been running.

He hasn't been working out. He's basically just been completely on the shelf and they dusted him off, threw him out there, and he was a dominant player in this game. Absolutely. He was incredible, especially given the circumstances, as you said, and just his mere presence opening up opportunities for teammates.

We saw Danny Green go 7 of 9 from 3. Tyrese, 5 of 6, and Green hit some absurd shots from 3, too, like coming off screens, changing his body, midair. It's what we've been saying all season. The Sixers only go as far as Danny Green will take them, you know, 7 of 9 from 3. I mean, especially coming off of games 1 and 2, he was 2 of 14 combined in those games.

Danny Green was. So there's a little bit of an ebb and flow. There's a pendulum effect happening here for a good shooter who's going to make shots at some point. But that's kind of what this series has been. If the Sixers had made some of their threes in game two, they might be up in the series right now. And

because the heat couldn't make shit in game three especially on their threes, they just really didn't have a lot going. Some of that is, I would say, not by design, but kind of how they're structuring their lineups and intentionally leaving some shooting on the table for the sake of playing better defenders. You know, Duncan Robinson, not a factor in the series so far, has not

really played in the series so far. Maybe that's a guy who gets some burn because they just need a little bit more room to breathe offensively, I think. Miami does. Yeah, and Miami's offense is where I have my concerns about what they can be against Milwaukee or Boston next round if they were to advance. But we've already seen some of those concerns in this single game here against Joel Embed, him being back on the court. With Miami, I just, feel obviously Jimmy Butler goes off and has a great game. He had 33 tonight. But besides Hero as like a perimeter creator, other than him,

Lowry hasn't proven he's anything worth worrying about like he was in the past. And all season long, Kyle Lowry wasn't his full self. Part of that I wondered like, is that just like managing? He's, you know, the easing off right now. Is he saving it because he's older? but coming off the injury, he did not look anywhere near his full self. There's little reason to believe that he can get back to Toronto, Kyle Lowry.

So that puts a lot on Ola Depot, who's not necessarily a knockdown shooter off the dribble. It's a lot on Tyler Hero. It's a lot on Jimmy Buller when he's a guy that goes downhill into the paint and then you're met by Joelle and B. That feels unsustainable for potentially the rest of the series. Like is this, how worrisome should today's game

actually be for the heat moving forward in the series, considering what we're talking about with some of the lack of the creation and even the lack of the shooting and some of the lineups they've been putting out there. I think it's pretty worrisome because you're leaving a lot to chance all of a sudden. You are putting a lot of this series up to, is Max Struz going to go three for 11 like he did in this game, or is he going to go five for 11? And is that going to be kind of the difference in the game?

Just because they don't have the support structure right now. And you laid it out perfect. like how much is falling on Jimmy's shoulders is not great. And after the game, you know, when he was doing his postgame comments, when asked about that third quarter was basically brought up that he, he thought he didn't do enough to set other guys up to get other guys involved. I think that's somewhat true. But it's not like, you know, it's not like he wasn't passing out to open shooters, per se.

It's just that they don't have very many shooters on the floor. There aren't a lot of guys that the Sixers feel like they have to cover at a given time. and Bam was completely stifled. And Hero, I think, is worth talking about, too, because there were two things that were worrisome in this game for me, for Tyler Hero, who ended up with like an okay, 14 points on 15 shots, not what you want, but passable.

But I think his performance was actually a little worse than that because two things happened. One, the Sixers started trapping him a little more, he's showing him a little pressure, and he did not deal with it well. No. Maybe that's the kind of thing that you see it on film, and it works out better the next time for Hero,

like he knows where his reads are. maybe that's what happens. But the other thing is the Sixers started running a lot more kind of like three-man Spain pick-and-roll type action to get Hero involved and really just like dislodge Miami's really good pick-and-roll defense, you know, get Bam out of the play, get PJ Tucker out of the play, get Hero involved in it more.

And the fact that they're finding more ways to loop him in, not great when he's, I mean, he's really the one-week link in their lineup and their rotation defensively. what's your current assessment of James Harden, Rob? I think he's been okay when they have needed him to be great in the first two games. And in this one, again, was more of a table setter than anything. And, you know, it's tough because I think he really did have a part to play in the first two games in terms of drawing attention in a certain way that allowed a guy like Maxi to thrive.

For example, as a second side player, as a transition player. But to me in this game, it was more about Joelle. doing that and Hardin running some basic pick and roll with him, getting stuff set up, finding guys in the right spaces. Like he's still a tremendous passer, but he's just not,

he's not the creator that they're going to need him to be in certain spots. And so if, if Joel has any hiccups on this way back, whether because of, you know, his, his concussion state or his face hurting or his injured hand,

less we don't forget about that on top of everything else, they could be in a tough spot. Like, that's why this series is so tough to call. Like, both of these offenses feel a little bit wobbly. Yeah. I mean, I mean, in reality, like, I ask about Hardin right after you talked about

Hero there because it's like that ultimately could be what determines the series. Can Hero find himself? Can Harden find himself? And when you think about the Eastern Conference, you know, later in this pot, I bring on Jared Weiss and Jay King from the Athletic to talk about the Celtics Buck series. And Chris Middleton being missed in that series, right now, three of the four, Eastern Conference team still out there, either have a guy limited, just getting back from injury, like Kyle Lari, or Hardin, not looking like his full self, or just out entirely like Chris

Middleton is. It's a worrisome thing for all three teams in different ways. With Miami and Philadelphia right now, though, who would you project as the more likely player to find themselves within this series, given everything we've seen so far? Is it Hardin? or hero? I think it's probably hero because I think he's had moments in this series where he's had moments

in the series where he looked like the most dynamic pick and roll player on the floor. And I think they'll learn his tendencies a little bit. Like I thought Thibol gave his best minutes of the series so far in game three.

Like he was actually kind of plugged defensively. Did he get booed when he first got subbed in? Did he? I didn't even clock it. Frankly, the Philly fans will boo literally. Yeah, yes.

I got to give him. credit man like the game ops here in philly are tremendous anytime p j tucker hit somebody or held somebody or there was a heat foul they just play that clip on loop until the crowd starts going insane and just yelling at everybody it's it's really an ingenious kind of feedback loop they have going on here but to answer your question i think it is hero because hard and i think i think we have reached a point where we understand what he is at this stage at least in this season with his current injury or non-injury state, whatever it ends up being. But we've got a good sample of this status quo from him versus here I think is a little

more variable and I think has more of a chance to get back on track in a meaningful way. Are you staying for game four? You're going to be there for energy in that crime? We'll see beyond that. I'm kind of hoping, you know, hoping things get interesting enough to stick around for the long term, but that's currently the plan. So hopefully, hopefully this thing gets tight because I love a swing game five. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

and we could potentially get one of those with the Sons Mavericks as well. That was the other game tonight. Dallas climbed back in the series as well with a 103-94 victory over the Phoenix Suns. And the big story tonight, you know, on the Dallas side of things was they get Jalen Brunson going again. And it's game one, he runs five pick and rolls. In game two, he runs 12 pick and rolls. In game three, he exceeds that basically in the first half. He ends up with 21 total shots with 28 points.

And the big stat from tonight's game is this. Jalen Brunson logged 26 drives to the basket tonight. He had 23 combined in games one and two. He's just getting so many more opportunities with the ball in his hands and he was making the most of him. I think Brunson realized tonight, they're not, Devin Booker's not stopping me when I go all the way to the basket when I try to play bully ball. Jalen Brunson, Luca Donchrich, we just asked the question with Philip. Philadelphia, Embedde returns. They're back in the series.

Jalen Brunson showed up tonight. Dallas made some adjustments. Do you believe they're back in the series against Phoenix? Or is just setting up to be five or six with the favorites in Phoenix? I think they're definitely back in the series. But what gives me the optimism, I would say even more than the Brunson stuff, is how good they were defensively. Oh, fantastic, weren't they?

And that's the team they've been, right? Like, they've been a good collaborative team defense. They're a team that like jams into jams up actions that gums up space really, really well. And a lot of that is Dorian Finney Smith. A lot of that is Reggie Bullock. Like those guys are great. And I thought, you know, Bullock in particular, I think he's just having an incredible playoffs. Like really one of the best all around role player performances we're seeing so far.

Really sensational stuff from him. But to hold them to 94 points in this game, to hold the Sons to 94 points, that is the headline to me. Suns scored 121 in game one, 129 in game 2. I mean, that's a recipe to get blown the hell out, you know, really to get swept out of this series or to lose it in pretty short order. So the fact that they're

able to get their defense a little bit back on track, get the sun's under wraps. Like, that's really optimistic. Really, a really positive sign for me. One of the things we saw Dallas do in the first half, I mean, Dwight, Dwight Powell for the whole game only played 10 minutes. We saw Dallas go small to maintain their

lead. They did it again in the second half with Burr-Bertons, Burr, Frank Nila Kina minutes. But with Luca, we saw in game two when Phoenix is attacking over and over and over and over and over again, they were switching a lot of those screens. And in game three tonight, they were showing more often on those trying to get the ball out of Chris Paul's hands. And they did.

It was affected. So I think for Dallas, this is the type of thing where it worked tonight. Phoenix is going to make their adjustments. They did get some quality looks out of that with short roles, whether it was to McGee or Bridges. but overall though like isn't like isn't like isn't that something you're going to continue doing anyway if you're Dallas is that that that has to be it rather than switching with Luca right after everything we saw in game too yeah you just can't leave him on an island like that right um I thought Luca actually was a little bit just more competitive and a little bit more mobile in this game seemed challenged like it didn't seem like especially at least compared to Phoenix Phoenix Phoenix seemed off like their energy defensively they had some sloppy closeouts to the perimeter Dallas was able to get to the middle of the floor a lot of the time. I don't know. It just seemed like Dallas was the more locked in team right from the jump.

That's the way it goes when you're up to oh sometimes. Like sometimes you let your foot off the gas just a little bit, especially when you see something like that, like that Luka matchup and you take for granted, oh, we're going to be able to score so easily every time we get that switch. And it's like, what happens if they stop switching? What happens if they do

start showing? What happens if they are pressuring Chris Paul more and kind of bogging him down in the game a little bit? So, all that stuff kind of layering on top of each other. I thought worked out really well for the Mavs, but the Sons are not a team I would want to play against with a film session, with time to prepare, with time to rally, and change course.

Chris Paul is obviously great with that stuff, but Monty Williams has proven to be a really great adjustment-oriented coach as well. So I'm anxious to see what they come out with. Can I ask you a general question here? This doesn't necessarily relate directly to the series, But we had two big contract situations coming up for Brunson and for Aiton. With Brunson, I want to start with him. We opened up the Phoenix, you know, Dallas conversation about his performance tonight with 28 points.

He dominates the Utah Jazz. He helps lead the Dallas with Luca out, just like he did way back in December, helping keep them afloat when Luca was missing games. He struggles through the first two games here against this Phoenix defense. Devin Boker did a good job on him. tonight I came away feeling like maybe Booker isn't the best guy to have on Brunson if they're going to give him this type of usage

where are you at with Brunson what is your evaluation of his game and especially because is there a better barometer for him than Phoenix this is the best barometer to know who a guy actually is I guess is my general thought here yeah I think especially as we see if they do change up the matchups

because that's really the one question with Brunson all the time is how does he deal with length you know, is he able to create a shot against bigger, longer defenders? Utah was kind of a cakewalk in that way. Like there was no one with the size to really challenge him. But if they decide to, you know, give Bridges stints on him, to even put someone like Jay Crowder on him, you know, that's the key is like Brunson is so strength dependent sometimes.

Like he needs to be able to bump to create that angle and then work his footwork. So if you don't have a smaller guard on him, or you have someone who just has even more of a height advantage or length advantage, what happens to him then. These are kind of the variables you want to see before you give a guy tons of money. But as it is now, I just think that great things happen for the Mabs

when they let Jalen Brunson cook. And it's not as an end in itself. It's so much more about creating that healthy offensive dynamic, getting your offense to a point where it's not just Luca scoring and creating every time where, you know, like Dorian Finney Smith and Reggie Bullock outscored Chris Paul in this game.

And you don't do that by Luca going ISO or mismatch hunting at the top of the floor every single time. You need that balance, and that balance comes from empowering guys like Brunson. It comes from doing something that on a possession-by-possession level, you know, Luca is going to be the most efficient creator you have, and you want to extrapolate that as far as it can go. But you have to think holistically when it comes to playoff basketball. You have to play the long game.

And the long game is, first and second quarter, Jalen Brunson has to be a more active participant in the offense like he was in game three. That's how when Luca goes out of the game without trouble, your offense is already in rhythm. You know the ball movement. You know the spacing. You know exactly what you need to do when he's out of the game. It's because they got those reps early in it.

I think that they were so effective in kind of holding onto their lead. 100% agree with you. And I mean, you said it earlier. It seemed like Luca was more engaged as well. Part of that is, you know, maybe because early in games, he's not running every single pick and roll, every single isolation. Yeah. More reps for Brunson.

And the other thing with him, last two seasons. This is a second spectrum stat. Last two seasons, there have only been five players who ranked them the top 15 in isolation scoring efficiency in both years. Those players are Nicole Eokic, Steph Curry, Kevin Durant,

Drew Holliday, and Jalen Brunson. Those are the five that were both in the top 15 in ISO scoring efficiency the last two seasons. So he might not be necessarily a primary, but if he's your number two, or number three behind a guy of the caliber of Luca. You nailed it, man. You got to empower that player in this type of setting

and force Phoenix to say, okay, I guess we can't put Devin Booker on you. I got to say, you know, NBA skill set, bag, Twitter just started sobbing uncontrollably that the five guys you listed are all like the ball movers, basically. No, Kyrie Irving, no James Hardin, no Kevin Durant. Oh, no, Katie wasn't there.

I'm sorry, Katie's in there. Katie's in there. get Steph Curry, of course, Jalen Brunson. You know, this is exactly what you would expect it to be. And one last thought on the Suns Mavs game. Chris Paul could not have picked a worst night to perform the way he did 12 points on nine shots, seven turnovers in the first half. His career high in the postseason is eight set back in 2012 against the Spurs back

when he was with the Clippers. Paul really struggled, wasn't able to get to his shots. And that's a lot to do with Reggie Bullock, who I thought was probably the unsung hero for Dallas tonight with his individual defense. In addition to what we talked about with Lucas showing on those pick and rolls, I'm sure Monty Williams is going to come back with adjustments, but I thought it was just interesting.

We see that in Friday night's game with Dallas being a little bit more aggressive on defense. We could see that on Saturday with Memphis in Golden State. And with this game, it's going to be the first game back in Golden State, away from that Memphis home crowd, which, by the way, was awesome. Memphis was great. That energy was amazing.

Grizzlies, one of the best home environments in the playoffs, one of the best places to catch a game. I'm hoping I get a chance to get out there. I'm hoping they hang on so I can get out there to catch a game this one. You've been to Chase Center yet? How is it compared to Oracle, like atmosphere-wise, in the arena? See, this is one where, you know, someone like Logan might be a better barometer because he took in so many more games at Oracle than I did.

I kind of got into the bay right towards the end of its lifespan, which was nice, but like the Warriors were already in, they were already kind of attracting a different. kind of clientele. And then the move just cemented it. So I think, you know, we'll see on Chase. I think it's going to need to find its playoff legs over the course of this run. But there's no question when Steph is doing his thing. It really doesn't matter what building he's in.

Like, even the visiting arenas get caught up in that. Are you trapping John Morant or blitzing? Just showing some type of aggression on pick and roll defense of your goal instead. Are you doing that in game three? I am trapping him. But I kind of think the Warriors will, not still, and I think they'll still win. You know, it's, it's just like a very warriorsy thing that they're going to like stick

to their principles. They just have a hot shooting night, right? They just have a hot shooting night. And sometimes that's what it is, you know? I think a lot of the time, that's what it is, Rob. A lot of the time. It goes pretty damn well when you have some of the best shooters in the world on your team.

What were their numbers in game to combine? Steph Curry in game two was a three for 11 from three. Clay was two for 12. Jordan Pull was one for six from three. The Warriors are as a team are seven of 38, 18.4% from three in game two. They lost by five. And a lot of those were open shot opportunities.

I don't think they have to reinvent the wheel to beat Memphis at home in game three here. But it's at least an intriguing strategic wrinkle to watch for. Yeah. Like are they going to pressure driving around? What else are you watching for in the game? Well, especially from that perspective,

like there's such a there's such a philosophical battle with teams in this stuff and it's it's i will say it's one thing for us to be watching at home on a tv setting and say oh my god you should obviously be trapping this guy like it's so it's so clear watching from tv but sometimes again the heat of especially in the heat of playoff games dramatically shifting coverages away from the way you play all the time i think it's so much easier said than done it's so much easier said than done in terms of like getting your whole team on that page and wavelength immediately. Now, when you have Draymond Green and a bunch of players who have been to NBA finals and been on long playoff runs, it's maybe a little bit easier.

But I don't know, those dramatic, like, shifts like that, I never take those for granted in terms of doing it within a game. It's a different thing when you have a shoot around, when you have a practice, when you can talk through it as a team. But, I mean, there's a reason why some of the most brilliant basketball minds on the planet go into games and their best laid plans go to absolute shit within five minutes. And it's like sometimes within these competitive settings, whatever you think you want to do can just get torn to shreds. So you're Steve Kerr.

What do you think you want to do replacing Gary Payton in game three? That's the tough one. I mean, I think lineup wise, yeah, because who is their next best option to guard Jai, do you think? Well, I mean, Andrew Wiggins probably guards Jod. from the starting lineup. That's what he did after Peyton went out. But we'll see if they go with it again.

Who's getting more minutes? Is it Cominga? Is it Damien Lee? Are you just trimming the rotation? I would love to see Cumminga get more minutes. This is a series where I feel like he should. That athleticism, the energy. He matches the profile of it so well.

And then moreover, I just feel like this isn't the kind of opponent who's really going to work him. We've seen, we have seen Jog get a, little bit annoyed when Coominga has tried to guard him, just like I can't believe you're trying to guard me with this guy kind of way, which I respect and understand. But Memphis is not a team that is going to execute to the ruthless efficiency that is going to make Cuminga unplayable.

So I would like to see him stretch out a little bit out there, see what he can do, see how many different guys in the series he can guard and make sense, like how many lineups he can complete. that's a guy who I think could make a lot of sense because yeah I just don't love some of these other options in terms of what you're getting defensively in some of these lineups and Looney I think has his place in a limited role

but unless they're playing Stephen Adams a lot Yeah exactly It just gets a little bit awkward in terms of some of the matchups The real key there is you know containing Jot the rim He's logging 10 driving layups per game and absolutely ridiculous amount

especially for the postseason and Caminga adding a little bit exercise with an interior help defense would be helpful as well. Let's do predictions for Saturday's games. Warriors, Grizzlies, who you got, Rob? I think Warriors win.

As I laid out. I don't think it's going to be a dramatically different tactical game, but they're just so good. And I just think, especially Steph is, like, some of those shots that Steph got are shots he kills teams on. And in this game, he was like missing the rim.

You would just hit wide back forward. I don't know what was going on with him. And credit to the Grizzlies, because I'm sure part of that is just throwing him out of his rhythm and off his game. But Steph doesn't say that way for long. I think the Warriors are going to win this one. I'm with you. I pick Warriors like a, you know, 6 to 10,

not like a buzzer-beater type of game, but, you know, pretty good win, a good win. And then we also have Celtics bucks. That's the first game. Any thoughts on Celtics bucks? Any number one thing on your mind? This series is so weird. Do you have a good feel for it?

I don't know. I just, I feel like maybe game one just threw me off so much that I'm having trouble recalibrating. Well, I enjoyed the conversation coming up with Jared and Jay. We get into Grant Williams a lot. Deservidly so. With the job he's doing against Janus. My goodness, Grant Williams. What a defender, man.

Yonis at some point, though, is sort of getting to get angry enough and do something. I mean, he already didn't have the backboard dunk in game one. But that's not all Grant's fault. How solvable do you think that element is? I mean, I'm sure you guys get into some of that, but that's what I'm trying to figure out is how much does Janus have to do with a guy like that? Because Williams is so solid in his positioning,

so strong just in terms of being immovable, that takes a lot out of Janus's sales when you have a guy who will do both of those things at once. And if you blow through him at the wrong time, he'll take a charge on you. He'll punish you for your aggressiveness under the right circumstance. is I still am a little uncertain about Boston's offense at times.

And if the series tilts, I think it's going to be on those grounds. And maybe this is going to be one of those series where, like, Drew Holiday's offense is going to come and go. And it's going to overwhelm kind of an awkward night from the Celtics at this time or that. For some reason, my gut is that Milwaukee wins. Well, one of the things related to what you said, we didn't talk about the specific stat here with the conversation with Jared and but the number, we did both agree, we all agree, as spoiler alert, you get to get Yonah's screening more for Drew Holiday. You know, you got to see what you can get out of Drew Holiday.

Together, so far, the series, Drew has been the ball handler with Yonis as a screener only 13 times through two games. I'd like to see 13 in game three on the Milwaukee side of things. I am picking Boston, though. I think the lack of Chris Middleton is a serious problem for Milwaukee, and we're going to find that out again. Yeah, huge problem. I will say one thing that's just coming to mind is like the,

the success that Milwaukee had clearing out doing side pick and roll with Yonis of the screener for like to your point Pat Conitin, like what happens if we put Drew in those situations and how far can that go? So empty side picker roll. Yeah, empty side.

Man, empty side pick and roll having quite a playoffs overall, I will say. That seems like the magic button that a lot of these coaches are reaching for. It can be a go-to pick-and-roll, period. You know, that's what you want to go to end-game situation to get your matchups. Yep. To get your big rolling or popping.

Like it is, it's the, it's the, it is basketball at its most basic. It's beautiful, isn't it, Rob? Absolutely. What a beautiful thing, Kev. Rob, thank you so much for joining the void, man. Hey, thanks for having me. Joining me for a special edition of The Void, breaking down the Celtics Buck series are my old friends from the Celtics beat from the athletic, J. King and Jared Weiss.

We have like eight days off between game two and game three. Between games one and game two, it felt like a lot changed between those two matchups and game two, Boston won 109 to 86 after dropping the first one, 101, 89. When I think about the difference between those two series, my mind goes straight to Boston's movement, the cutting, moving the ball side to side. Where does your mind go first, Jared, when you think about the difference between game one and two for Boston? And what does it mean moving forward? Yeah, I mean, not turning the ball over in the backcourt, so Yonis could get like 50 transatlantic. points definitely helped them win that game. But it was just that like game one, they looked like they were playing surprised and

like they were reacting. Game two, they looked like they knew what their game plan was. They knew what Milwaukee's tendencies were. And I think the big thing was they were pushing that side-to-side movement, one extra swing. A lot of the time, they would get that first side-to-side action. A guy was open enough that he'd shoot it. And he'd take the shot, and either it was someone Milwaukee wanted to leave open, like

Derek White, who also didn't hit a shot in game two anyway. or it was just someone who had like a Bobby Portis closing out at them. Someone's super big closing out at them. And they just played Brooklyn where it was like Patty Mills or Seth Curry closing out at you half the time. Or Blake Griffin jumping in his wheelchair so we could, you know, card on out to try to close you out. So it was just Milwaukee's speed and length just really threw them off.

And it seemed like they kind of figured out if they kept just being patient and they didn't take the first thing that they were given by the defense, they could eventually get Milwaukee to overcomit to one side of the ball and find something completely open. Yeah, I think the full, core pressure from Milwaukee really threw Boston offense game in game one. That was the worst the Celtics offense has looked in months. And guys were rushing shots, guys were challenging Brooke Lopez at the rim for no reason whatsoever. Guys were just kind of, as they said, sped up.

And I think as I talked to some people around the Celtics, like they mentioned just screens, like just screens. Because especially against the bucks, like if you, if you, if you, if you, you can get a good screen. That means Drew Holiday is off Jason Tatum's body. That means Bobby Portis needs to step up more than he wants to. That means Brooke Lopez needs to step up more than he wants to. That means you can take advantage of all the space that those guys give you. And so I think that's part of it.

And then all the other stuff, the off ball movement, the passing. Especially in that first half, the seller had just a lot of ball movement passing. and the constant over the two games has been the half-court defense. And to me, game two, it was limiting Janus, but also holding the Bucks to 18-3-point attempts. So you're not only limiting Janus, but taking away all the threats around him. And that's where the Chris Middleton thing is like glaring

that the Bucks need another guy to puncture Boston's defense, and it's just not available right now. Yeah, in game one, the lack of Middleton wasn't felt as much. I mean, you could notice it. But in game two, there were so many moments, I'm like, damn, it sure would be nice for Milwaukee to have the ability to go with a Chris Middleton, high pick and roll, with Yannis rolling down to the paint. You mentioned holding them to only 18, three-pointers, Jay.

Jared, was there anything Boston did in terms of its rotations, helping on Yannis when he had the ball that did influence the amount of three-pointers that were available from Milwaukee, but also how Janus wasn't able to finish at his elite efficiency inside the paint that we normally do see from him. The main adjustment I saw was that they actually collapsed before the play a little bit more.

So Boston's defense would sit closer to the paint when Janus had the ball. And they were kind of like, whether it was Grant Williams or Al Horford, they were welcoming Janus getting a little bit more speed to hit them with that first point of contact. But that way, they didn't have to be spread apart and then guys have to then sink in.

and then try to recover. Because Janice, what he did so well in that first game was, when he would draw two guys in, he was passing that ball while the help was coming to him a lot of the time so that the defender that has to recover would have to stop and turn around and then try to go out. The Celtics were just having those guys sit in the help position already so that if the ball gets moved,

they're already sprinting towards the shooter when the ball is on the move. So that's how they were able to limit so many three points. Is Grant Williams a defense of God? he's growing so much since last year he had a really solid rookie year and then came back for his second season it was just really rocky for him and he got he got beat off the dribble too much uh he said he got in much better shape this year but his first two rounds he's hitting threes he guarded kevin durant really well and and now he's guarding yonis really well. Contract extension talks coming up.

That dude is doing well for himself. Why does it work for Grant William so well against Janus, Jared? He's an ox. He's basically what's behind you right now against Janus. And I don't think Janus sees that's a brick wall. This is actually, no, that's not true. This is a fake brick wall right here. It's just covering up a green screen.

That's what is. So what did the green screen to work for the brick wall anyway? Well, you should use the green screen and just show photos of Grant Williams Batman means. I know. I probably, I probably should just do that instead. Brick wall.

I really thought that was real. It is not a real brick wall. It's, sometimes it works better for like zooms and, you know, meetings and all that than using a fake, you know, assume green background.

Well, Grant Williams is a real brick wall. Yes, It's a real big of all. He's exposed brick everywhere. And, okay, what he has done well in this series is the first point of contact with Janus, Yonis bounces off of him. With Hortford, not quite so much, but Horford is just good with his hands and he's

able to move the right spot that usually Yonis isn't flying by him. Grant's the one where like, Janus is straight up bouncing off of him. I thought the funny thing was that, that self-value upe that Yonis had. Like, that actually was a great defensive play by Grant where he just bounced off of Grant like three times and then did that most like gigantic ball fake and pivoting. I don't think anyone the world's going to be able to defend that one. So Williams has been just super reliable at being able to take the contact without fouling. And then he's able to continue to lean in the honest.

Then when Yonis uses his counter move, he's not really hip checking Yonis and committing a foul that way, the way that he probably would in the past like Jay's talking about and the way that most other strong guys usually do. They just don't get the angle and the timing to be able to start moving off of that bracing for contact well the way that Williams is doing. And what did he do? I mean, in the first round, just to look back at that, like it is a bit surprising considering where he came from, the development. And yet you look back at what Grant Williams was at Tennessee.

He was a late bloomer in college. It's not like he popped to one and done as a freshman. It took a little bit of time for him to develop. Same thing now in Boston, where we see him successfully defend Yanos through two games so far, and we'll see how the rest of the series goes. We see him do well when matches. up against Kevin Durant. Where does his game go from here?

As we do kind of just spin it forward real quick with Grant Williams, I go, what does he turn into as he continues to age in his 20s through that next contract? I mean, the name that guys have always said with him from the time he got to the league was PJ Tucker. And I see that as a pretty realistic career path. Is he better than that, though, Jay, offensively? Shooting. I mean, the three-point shooting a-up.

Above the break has been different. Like, PJ Tucker was always a corner guy, but Grant, in his overnight shooting transformation, has become an above the break guy. But I think, you know, part of why PJ Tucker was limited in that role, he was on teams that just asked him to do that. I think even this year in Miami, we've seen him do a little more. Yeah.

And he's got a little bit more to his game than we used to see in Houston, for example, where Mike Tantoni didn't want guys cutting. That's a great point. And I think now as people start to close out to Grant Williams, because even this year he was shooting in the mid-40s for a while, it took teams a while to close out. It took teams even longer than that to close out hard. And now he's starting to find avenues where he can beat close-outs

and then show off the IQ that I think was really impressive at Tennessee, which was one of the reasons why the draft experts like you loved him while he was at Tennessee. one guy who hasn't been shooting the ball well in the rotation is Derek White. And with Boston right now, like he's come in, started for Marcus Smart, did a good job defensively, as he always does. Playmaking always does a great job. 14 assists to seven turnovers so far in the postseason. But scoring wise, 7 of 17 from 2 point range and 3 of 18 from 3.

I wonder like when it comes to Boston, this is a team, no weak links. like there's nobody so far that you're picking on defensively they're able to execute different schemes at a high level with these no weak links but offensively I wonder if there comes a point where Milwaukee just says you know what we're not going to defend Eric White until you prove that you can actually score with any level of efficiency

and that's maybe where they try to gum up the Tatum and Brown offensive sets that Boston's running I thought that kind of happened in game too right that already happens they took Janus off Jalen and just had guard Derek White and obviously Janice guarding someone who does not want to shoot is shooting

really badly during the playoffs and has never been a great shot like he's a force and so that's an obvious obvious glaring concern that could hurt the Celtics at some point I do think like Derek White he sort of has some Sean Livingston to him where even though he's not

a three point threat like just the intelligence, the way he attacks you, how he knows angles, everything like that, he's able to keep the ball moving in a way that doesn't kill your offense, even though he is that weak link from the three. And I thought, you know, a lot of those great offensive possessions that the Celtics had, he was part of it, driving to the paint, finding other guys. But it is like, it's something that every team is going to game plan. Like, okay, Derek White's on the court. We need to find a way to take advantage of that because we don't trust that he can shoot threes. I don't think he trusts right now that he can make threes.

And that's definitely like something that the Celtics are going to have to figure out if he continues to shoot three for 18 or whatever the bad, bad percentage it is. Jay, you're alluding to like he's still able to make plays even though he's not getting the defensive attention that you might hope for if you're Boston. Jared, you had a play in your article where I think Derek White cut immediately after passing, if I remember correctly. Did you know the play that I'm talking about from your article? The Tatum relocation.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, the Tatum relocation. Can you explain what was happening there? Yeah, so since White can't shoot and they're just sagging off of him, he's using that space in front of him to attack. And so usually when a guy attacks a closeout, he's looking around him to spray it out somewhere. And then Milwaukee's great and really shut this down in game one of letting guys attack the closeouts and then having hands throughout the paint

so that there's not really any room to kick it. And we saw the Celtics a few times, like jump in the air and find someone to pass it to and basically turn it over because they couldn't find anybody. And so White, credit to him, he doesn't really do that. And he never was able to find the person who wanted to pass it to. So what they did was when somebody would swing it or kick it to White,

they would have that person then loop around and replace White from where he had just attacked from. And the defense obviously is sucking in from that area. so the defense is abandoning that area. So Tatum had a huge three on that one. We saw Al Horford get a couple open threes because he was stepping into a place wherever White was attacking from. So they're basically going to decide to use White as as soon as the ball hits his hands,

we want him moving. So at least Milwaukee has to move and shift guys around, and then we can at least find the space to fill in behind him. Yeah, this isn't like Andre Robertson situation. Or like we saw Tony Allen in the past years the way defense has helped off off of him standing in the corner. If you're going to ignore Derek White, you still kind of need to, like, pay attention.

And he will shoot. He will. He will. He, although reluctantly, more reluctantly these days, I would say. Is he in his own head? Like, what is the cause you think right now for Derek White? He's never shot worse than he has right now.

He's never had great numbers. And then I think also, he just probably had the ball a lot more in his hands in San Antonio. And I think when you've seen him be more of a point guard, I don't know what the numbers are, but I would bet that his pull-up three-point percentage is better than his catch-and-shoe three-point percentage in Boston.

And I think the Celtics, when they got him, thought, okay, with better looks from Tatum, from Brown, with all the openings he'll have, those numbers are going to go up. And I think it's kind of gone the other way where maybe the catch-and-shoot hasn't been. what they expected when they traded for him. Is there a chance he gets trumped from the rotation at one point?

Yeah. I mean, I don't think it will be a regular thing, but we saw it in parts of the Brooklyn series even when IMA O'Doka went to five shooters with Richard, Jalen Brown, Jason Tatum, Al Horford, and Grant Williams, and said, we're going to spread these guys out. we're going to give Tatum and Brown as much space as possible. But at the same time, so I do think it's possible.

But he does a lot. He's a really good defender. He's really smart. He's not going to make bad decisions. The shooting is bad. The scoring has not been good. But I think he still is doing a lot for the Selva. And I thought it's fun.

because he was 0 for 6 with zero points and four assists and four rebounds in game two. I came away from that being like the shooting's bad. The shooting is an obvious issue, but like he was okay. You know? I didn't think he was terrible in that game at all. He's one of those guys where it's not just about the scoring. It's everything else. And in some ways, you know, Marcus Smart is a supercharged version of that where it's like

the points are a bonus on top of the playmaking and the defense and everything else he brings to the floor. Before Al Horford's season here now in Boston, plays in Philadelphia as a forgetful year in Oklahoma City. That actually didn't happen. It just feel like it happened. Half of it didn't happen. Yeah, it happened.

He's told him to go home. Jared, is Horford the same guy that he was during his first stint with the Celtics? Or has his game changed at all as he's aged into his 30s? because it feels like he's just the type of guy who can continue playing for a long, long time even moving forward now. His games changed a little bit, not a ton. He's not creating off the bounce as much as he did before. And I don't know if this is just a utilization thing or a schematic thing or if it's him,

but they don't churn him through high pick and rolls and pick and pops the way that they did. But he was here the first time. Part of that is because he was playing with a great pull-up point guard when he was in Boston. the Celtics don't have that in the same vein. But also Jason Dayton runs a ton of pick and roll and pick and pop. So I don't know why they're not doing it quite as much as they did before. But Hartford is doing most of the stuff that they needed from him the first time around. And the big thing with him that makes him always going to be useful is that his reads, moving the ball,

and he finds different spots that get to on the court where he can move the ball are just so good for a big. There's still as good as it gets for a big. So he's always going to have a role offensively. And then we're seeing in this playoff run that, like, the dude still moves well enough to defend again, like not just be a pick and roll defender, but be an isolation defender, take on opposing stars. So the stuff he's doing right now makes me think he's so going to be a useful player for a few more years. And at the very least, it's going to be worth this contract next year. I felt like when everyone started talking Marcus Smart for defensive player of the year, Robert Williams for defensive player of the year, I felt Al Horford should have been looking around. like, what about me?

Well, I don't know. I deserve to be. You look at the isolation numbers, and they switch him all the time. Robert Williams, there's been a lot of talk about his versatility, how the Celtics use him on wings, use him as a helper. The reason that works is one, because Marcus Smart is tough enough to box out big men and stay with big men, but also because Al Horford can guard guards. He switched on to John Morant. and was guarding John Morant regularly.

Like, he guarded Kevin Durant sometimes in that series. Like, they trust him to do so much. By the way, Horford, this season, according to Second Spectrum, he defended 344 isolations. He defended more than anyone in the league. Most. And Grant Williams, number two, 307. And both of those guys were over the top.

Robert Williams is way up there too, right? Yeah, yeah, exactly. And both of those guys were. near the top in terms of points allowed on those isolations. They were both dominant. And that's because they all, they all work together. Like, it's, it's not a one-man operation when Al Horford is on an island defending against Jod's. Well, he has Robert Williams on the wing helping off. It's Tatum in the passing lane helping at the nail. If it's a pick and roll, whatever, like, it's a, it's a group, it's a group effort. Yeah. On defense. Yeah. I think his ability to play the

four this year. I didn't know he could play the four anymore. Two years ago, it was a disaster when he played the four next to Joel Embed in Philadelphia. It just didn't work. And now he's been playing the four. He's guarding anyone. And it's just really impressive the defensive stuff that he's still able to do at that age. It's really, really impressive. So with Boston, we know they can defend. They've defended, you know, at an elite level for months. now. Jared, is there anything you're anticipating in game three and beyond from the Milwaukee side of things given, as we've talked about, no Chris Middleton. How do you get Janus going more, getting him scoring more efficiently? Is there anything Milwaukee can do? They can make him the

role man more. We saw it in a second. Yeah, not just with Drew, like with Grace and Allen as well. They even did it with Chavon Carter a little bit, but when he got going in the third quarter, I mean, the main reason he got going to third quarter was he started getting pissed off and just wanted to beat the crap out of Rob Williams, and it worked a few times. But they started using him for pick and roll down on like the sides. And the Celtics had the drop so far off the ball on those to stay in his body that the bucks were able to get the ball pretty deep into the pain. That's when they actually had a really good quarter. And so Boston adjusted. It also just like you can't run the same play 50 times in a row in the playoffs.

So that eventually kind of died out. but if they can find a way to just get Janus Warrenful involved as a role man, kind of like on the side, like out towards the size instead of down the middle, because there's a lot of it down the middle early on. That way, the Celtics have to really commit to help

and you can actually try to get them to overload to one side, and then you actually can start passing ahead of the rotations, which Milwaukee just couldn't really get any of in game two. I just feel like Janice has to be like just while Middleton is out, he has, like everyone else is just relying on. him and he has to find ways to not just score a lot but but do it more efficiently and create openings for other guys like they rely on him right now to get looks and and i do think that the bucks might have found a little something with him as a role man but also some of it is just like

he needs to kick ass to the point i don't know if i can say that on this podcast you can say he It's a kick-ass to the point where Boston sends too much help. And then the Grayson Allen's, the Pat Connittons, all the guys who need him to set them up get free. Taking eight threes and a half, taking 18 threes in a game just isn't going to be enough against this Boston, like just not going to be. And it's probably unfair to put that on Janus, but it has to be on Janus because, I'm, I mean, Drew Holiday can do a little bit of the creation stuff, but there's really not much else out there to create and get guys open. One of the, I think, kind of underrated storylines of this series

is the fact that Milwaukee pulls out this three big lineup last round, highly effective with Janice, Brooke Lopez, and Bobby Portis. It has not worked against Boston. They've played it for 23 minutes with those three on the floor at the same time, getting outscored by 26 points per 100 possessions. Why has that been less effective for Milwaukee? Because they're not starting Kobe White. Sometimes it's that simple, Jay.

Sometimes it is. I think, like, there are very few hiding spots in the Celtics starting lineup. And if you're guarding Robert Williams, you've got to be constantly prepared for the lot. If you're guarding Al Horford, well, they can go pick and pop with Al and take advantage of a guy. Even, and when they do start that lineup,

they have Janice, who they don't really want on star players, like, as the primary defender. They have Brooke Lopez who doesn't want to be in space. He's amazing, just an incredible defender, but in space, he has some limitations. Bobby Portis, they don't want to switch him at all. So there's just not a ton of versatility.

And so I think the cat and mouse game between the Celtics trying to force the bucks into those weaknesses and the bucks trying to just hide those things has been pretty fun. But it's really tough to hide when you're up against a starting lineup that doesn't have a ton of just total weak spy. Derek White, you can say maybe. But even if you leave him, he's going to take away that space and find somebody else and keep it moving. So they found some ways I felt like to kind of put Portis in the action. They were running some screens off the ball to get Portis in the action. And Milwaukee just doesn't want to switch.

Some of those screens, teams with versatility, it's easy to switch that. But if you're not going to switch it, then Jason, there's just so much. West Matthews and Drew Holiday to stay attached to guys and be great defensively and and not lose bodies and like that's really hard to do like they're just really really hard there's a lot on those two guys especially we haven't seen a lot of Janus defending Tatum in this series we primarily he's defended Al Horford Jalen Brown Grant Williams he's only logged four possessions matching up against Tatum according to second spectrum tracking data. Is there going to come a point, Jared, where Milwaukee does need to just say, you know what,

we're putting Janus on Tatum or even putting Janus on Jalen Brown full time? What are we anticipating from, I guess, that standpoint with what Milwaukee can do to try to slow down the Boston offense and cut the head off the snake? Well, we saw when Janus was guarding Jalen in the first half in game two, Jalen was just running him through screen. Janus wasn't that great at getting around them and he was getting picked off. Exactly.

He was getting open looks. So yeah, if Janice can completely glue to Jalen Brown, he's the one guy who's likely to really neutralize Jalen Brown shooting. Jalen Brown shoots over Tykin tests usually like it's nothing. He did in game one, did it the game two though, at least. Then with Tatum, if you do that with Tatum, I think Tatum's going to bring him into high pick and roll.

And you're, I guess he at least can take away Tatum's pull-up game when Brooke is in that drop. but if Tatum can attack Brooke Lopez straight up and Janus isn't there to help at the rim, I think he's going to be able to find a way to score on Lopez or at the very least, spray it out and you don't have Janus recovering on those sprayouts. Like a lot of the time,

especially in game one, they could kick the ball out, but then Janus is the one closing out and Janus shuts that down. Bobby Portis is a good job with it. He's just not Janus, and the rest of the bucks aren't really that impactful with the way that they close out. So I just feel like if you take Janus out of the center field role, you're just, you're already a defense that overloads so much.

It needs to be really smart about overloading and getting out of it and recovering, stuff like that. You're taking away your player that's best at doing that. I just feel like, well, the Boston's going to be able to pick that apart. Jay, I feel like the way that we're talking about Celtics bucks right now, like we would not have been having this conversation after game one, is my point. And after game two, with the way everything transpired, here we are ahead of game three.

And we're talking about all these flaws with the, bucks all of these concerns no chris middleton how boston just seems so much more prepared like everything was decisive from boston in game too but there was also a patience with what they were doing with the way they're moving with the way they're rotating i can't help up feel maybe i'm overreacting here but i can't help but feel like that things just shifted entirely and that this was why oh this is why i picked the seltics to win the series because no chris Middleton. We're just seeing everything and fold a game too.

But if things flip, like, why would things flip back the other way for Milwaukee in Game 3? What needs to happen for the Bucks aside from a huge yonis game? But even if it is a huge, honest game, like, how do you get that huge yonis game?

It's like the question on my mind. So what needs to happen? To me, this series is, it comes down to can the Celtics work hard enough and stay committed enough to the offensive game plan to attack Milwaukee's weaker links. Because I think especially without Chris Middleton,

it's like there are flaws in that Milwaukee defense. The guys behind Drew Holiday and West Matthews, whether it's Grayson Allen, Javon Carter, who I love Javon Carter, he works so hard, he's such an agitator. They're smaller. Even Pat Conninton, if you have him guarding Tatum, guarding Jalen Brown,

He's just giving up a lot of size. And the other guy, like Portis, Brooke Lopez, they don't want to be guarding at the three-point arc. The Bucks don't want them guarding at the three-point arc. So there are flaws. It's just hard to get to those flaws against Milwaukee. And that's why they're so great defensively is because they are able, like,

if you're not super committed to getting to the stuff that they don't want you to get, then you'll fail. And you'll make bad decisions at the rim, and Janus will block your shot and get going the other way. And so to me, like, I don't know if Milwaukee will ever be able to score against Boston in the half court without Chris Middleton. But where the problems would pop up for Boston is if, like, in game one, they turn the ball over, they take bad shots, and their offense ruins their defense at the other side. Like, that should be their big concern. think, Jared? I think the best offensive segment of either of these teams in the series is Milwaukee in transition. We saw that in game one. If Milwaukee can get lots of defensive rebounds and run off

of turnovers, they are going to get so many easy buckets and Janus is going to draw a lot of fouls. So if thinking mostly comes down to Boston's offensive discipline, like can they get, can they get rushed again like they were in game one? Can they get, can they get pressured into running their sets discombobulated. Like we saw it was, I think it was a lot easier to understand. I think for everybody what Emeo Doka and the team meant when they said they were getting rushed in game one,

when you watch game two, and you just saw how their timing on all of their sets was just way more on point. They, like, they also weren't barely getting over the half court line and, you know, and then like being all flustered. Jason Tatum wasn't just like literally waving off plays and ignoring plays to try to attack what he thought was an opening. Like they were on the same page.

and especially like Drew Holiday. Drew Holiday's had, I feel like Drew Holiday has had a Drew Holiday like series where he's been really, really good, but doesn't feel like he's dominated yet. And I feel like there's a game or two of those coming from him. Because honestly,

Drew Holiday, the greatest post player in NBA history. Like, he looks like in his first couple of games. He's so strong. He's so strong. He made Al Horford look like, like Grace and Allen defensively.

Like, when he backed him out, it was unbelievable. And he's, And his hands are amazing on the perimeter, but we haven't figured out, like, who's going to, like, is there someone on Milwaukee's defense that can, like, strip Tatum and Brown when they try to get through traffic in the lane and force turnovers that way? Or is it really just going to be, like, the pressure decides whether or not Boston's going to be out of rhythm. But if they can find that extra edge to turn Boston over and get those leakouts with Yannis, that's when I think Milwaukee can seize control of the series again. Yeah, absolutely agree with you guys.

I think that's, that has to be it for Milwaukee. It starts there on defense, getting those stops, creating transition. The tough part is, though, is like even if you are forcing the ball out of Tatum's hands, if he's kicking it out to somebody, that's Derek White catching the ball, attacking a close out, making the right pass. It's Marcus Smart. It's Al Horford, Robert Williams, it's Robert Williams making a quick decision. Everybody talks about his rim running, the lobs, that block shots and his defense.

But that dude can pass the ball too. Everybody in this Boston rotation. He also hasn't played that well so far. in the series either. Yeah, he hasn't been his full self yet. But Boston has really no weak links on either end of the court besides Derek White's shooting. What is your prediction for the rest of the series, Jay? It's going to be a slug fest. I think there's going to be a game where both teams are in the low 80s in this series. I think my prediction from the start was Celtics and 7. I'm going to stick with that. But I just think,

there's going to be pain on both sides. It's going to be physical. These two defenses are awesome. I look out on that court. I just wonder, like, how do teams ever score against these guys? How do you ever score when Brooke Lopez and Janice are both doing everything they're doing? How do you score when it's the Celtics and they literally don't have anybody who's not like a really good defender in isolation? It's just so tough.

and both the teams are huge. So my prediction is low scoring and a long series Celtics and seven. Before the series I had Celtics and six, now with Celtics and seven, really seven and a half. It's that close. And I think that we still haven't seen Tatum find a rhythm near the rim, which I think he can find eventually, although we could say the same about Janus.

Yonis feels like he's got a 45 and 10 game coming at some point here. But, you know, Tatum has not really found a rhythm scoring. He has a couple of these spurts. That's pretty much it. The thing that I am worried about is Jalen Brown seemed like the hammy was bothering him more throughout the game. Bit of a red flag that Udoka wanted to pull him with a few minutes left, although I understand his logic. Like his answer made sense. It was like, well, the game was kind of in hand, so made sense to just get him out at that point.

But that's concern. And then, you know, they had the whole the whole Ewing theory thing with Smart going out where like that rallied them to bounce and win that game. But then when Smart comes back and Smart probably is going to be playing at what 80% or something like that for the series and they lose that jolt of just like bouncing back from the loss and making all those adjustments and playing without Smart and having that rally, can they still muster the like attention to detail and energy that it takes to beat this team? I think they probably can.

Like that was that was a huge bounce back in game two for what was basically their first real loss in months. and they played like their usual selves, and so I think they can do that enough to pull out three more in the series. And the only thing else, one of the thought is there was a medical update from the Bucks on Thursday afternoon

that really wasn't much of a medical update at all. All they said is that he continues to make steady progress from his left knee injury rehabilitation, the left knee MCL sprain. So no indication, that he could be coming back early, the surprise return for the bucks. I picked the series to go seven.

I'm starting to feel more like six. But we'll see. We'll see. Yonis is capable of the magnificence. He can do literally anything. And there will come a moment where, like you said, Jared, he's going to get a 45-point game. He's going to have a game where he punks Grant Williams.

It's inevitable. It will happen. It's just a matter of when. And if not, though, that's a testament to Boston's defense and how amazing they've been all year long with their ability to contain virtually anybody, no matter of the type of opponent. If they do contain Janus after what we saw him do to the Phoenix Suns last year in the NBA finals, that'll speak so highly about what Boston's defense is. I've heard a lot of people say like the Celtics defense is one of the all-time great defenses and like the best of the generation, whatever. I mean, they're awesome for sure. but I think they're jumping the gun on that

but if they manage to hold KD and Yannis to like 35% shooting two series in a row then they actually like go all the way with it then I think that that level of hype is probably starting to become pretty warranted like that would be I can't really think of any any defense that was able to shut down like two MVP caliber players pretty much at their peaks like that

in a row like that. This book's defense has or bucks offense has no talent like without Middleton. There's just, it's true. Even holiday is limited somewhat. Like, that's not his best thing at creating. And then you look at the other guys and you're like,

who scares you out of that group? Javon Carter looked a little scary there for a few minutes. Javon, I love Javon. I really am the biggest Javon Carter fan in the entire world and always have been. How can he not love Javon Carter with his hustle? The heart he brings to the court.

Those players are universally loved, right? Does anybody know? Not like Javon Carter. No, that's an NBA Pyrist star right there. He's a maniac. I'll tell you who could have used him. Brooklyn could have used him. Yeah.

Brooklyn got rid of him. They got rid of James Johnson. They could have, like, could have those guys. Absolutely could have. Well, here we are. Tide 1-1. Game 3 on Saturday. Jay and Jared.

Are you guys going to be there? Are you going to Milwaukee? You going on the road? Yeah. Yeah, buddy. And now, 5.30 a.m. flight. Can't wait. Cheese curds in my stomach. Cheese curds at 5 a.m. in the morning?

No, not at 5. But after I got to Milwaukee at some point, he's buying cheese curds in Boston, so just to get prepared for being to Milwaukee. Jay, Jared, thank you for joining the void. My minute. Thank you, brother. That was a good pot. I enjoyed those conversations with Rob,

Jared, and Jay. I hope you did as well. Thank you so much for listening to The Void. I'm looking forward to a good weekend of NBA basketball. We got Celtics and Bucks early on Saturday before later Warriors Grizzlies game. I'm fired up, man. We've been waiting since Tuesday for these games. Tuesday.

That was forever ago. Anyway, thank you for listening to The Void. We really do appreciate it. Please give the mismatch podcast feed a follow if you're not already. Share it with your friend if you think they might enjoy listening during the NBA playoffs, whether it's to the mismatch or to the void. I'll be back on Tuesday with Chris Vernon, and I'm excited for that one, especially because we got Memphis Golden State on Monday night. We'll be reacting to that. I'm fired up. So be sure to stay tuned for that next week. Thanks again to Jesse Lopez for producing. Thanks to Jared, Jay, and Rob for joining. And I hope you have a great weekend.