The Mismatch - Embiid's Future, Summer League Standouts, and Lingering NBA Story Lines

Episode Date: July 18, 2023

Verno and KOC discuss how impressed they are by the Summer League performance of Cam Whitmore after he fell in the draft, and take a look at other players who stood out in Las Vegas (01:35). After Joel Embiid said he wants to win a championship in Philadelphia or "anywhere else," the guys debate whether his comments are something to be concerned about (27:15). Also, the lack of progress on a Damian Lillard or James Harden trade, the Suns' unique roster construction, and theorize on why Jaylen Brown hasn't been extended by the Celtics yet (39:48). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Bill Simmons from The Ringer, and this is a podcast called The Rewatchables. We have been doing it. Really since 2017, it started with how much we love the movie Heat. We decided to structure a whole podcast with categories, most rewatchable scene. Who on the movie, Apex Mountain, what age the best? But here's the thing. If you want the full archive, you can hear them only on Spotify for free, by the way. So make sure do follow the rewatchables on Spotify.

Welcome to The Mismatcham. and join him as he does every Monday from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, a.k, Kevin O'Bomber, Kevin O'Climber, Kevin O'Chammer, Kevin O'Candleyn, Kevin O'Candleyn, Kevin O'Brien. How are you doing tonight, man? Summer League finale. We're recording before it. Don't know who's going to win the championship. Houston, Cleveland. Yeah, we are going to put a bow on Summer League, even though the championship game is yet to have been played. We're about to, as soon as this is over, we're about to hit the real dead time of the NBA. All these guys are going to be going on vacations.

And so anything that pops up over the next couple of months before they get to training camp, I think is going to be a bit of a surprise outside of possibly minor deals that are taking place. But as we put a bow on this summer league, you mentioned that the Cavs and the Rockets are going to be playing in this. I think a couple of things that are worth mentioning. Again, who cares what the outcome of this is. But what is interesting is that the Cam Whitmore story is a real one because we fast forward from draft night, which was one of the most shocking drops I think any of us could ever remember in an NBA draft. Most people had Cam Whitmore in the 5 to 10 range at absolute one.

worst. And there he is on draft night, just plummeting down the board. And then once he gets selected, you know, it's like, wow, he could really be the steal. And then people kind of parse through what happened with him and why did he fall down and people wondered about his love for the game. And people didn't like his interviews and people didn't, you know, whatever. Maybe he had a red flagged med red flags from some people. But the truth of the matter is, we saw him play of Villanova. A guy's a fantastic basketball player

or showed to be. And he has been absolutely awesome in Summer League. He was named the Summer League MVP today. We've seen him have a game with 25. We saw him have a game with 26. And more importantly than the 26, it made me think about years ago, you and I, this is how long we've been doing this podcast,

I had gone to a game where I saw Donovan Mitchell. Donovan Mitchell had 10 steals. And I told you it was like a 10-time All-Star had been plopped down into the middle of a game. It's like when you can get that many steals, you just end up looking so much better than everybody else on the court.

It's like here's this one amazing guy and then kind of everybody else. And there he is the other night. Cam Whitmore, 26 points, and he's got eight friggin steals in the game. And I had this flashback to that moment with Mitchell where it's like, okay, there's nine guys, and then there's one guy who's different than the other ones.

And so here we are. Surprise, surprise. Cam Whitmore has been awesome. And it at least makes you think, as we just watch Summer League, Kev, that like it's one of those that in the moment seems strange, and now at least through Summer League seems even stranger. Absolutely does. I mean, you know, draft night.

Like in the day, in the day leading up, you know, the conversation with him was, well, the medical, the interviews might have bad knees. He didn't really produce as expected for Villanova last season. And, you know, it's not like I had him top five on my board. Like the ringers Tate Frazier had him number three on his board. I believe I had Whitmore 10, 11 on my board, something like that. So I wasn't necessarily as high on him as a lot of other people were. but ultimately with Whitmore, falling to 20 still came as a shock. Going all the way to 20.

And the fact that Houston got, I'm a team that's young, that can take a gamble and miss, and it's okay, because of all the other young guys that they have, because they're still young in their process right now, it seems like at least from Summer League, the perfect situation for him to get that opportunity. And once he's playing with the big league squad, it's going to be interesting to see the way this all translate. He's been better defensively, as you said, that's starting to manifest for him with his great physical qualities. You know, the eight steals. He's had plenty of other great moments on defense as well. And I think offensively, we're seeing the scoring at the rim with his explosiveness,

seeing the mid-range potential, shooting only 29% from three, but it's on eight attempts per game. He's going to be shooting at a lower volume with probably better quality looks playing alongside the big league rockets rather than the summer rocket. So I think overall, you know, you look at him and, you know, winning MVP is at least representative of him playing every game and producing in every game. And overall, I think with him, what's most impressive to me is the fact that the defenses look good, you know. I think with him, some of the blocks that he has, the effort plays, he looks like a guy that's playing with a chip on his shoulder as he should falling to number 20. Well, we've talked about the Rockets' talent and how they've kind of got these kids, and now they've just got to figure out who the ones are that are going to be there for the future that they want to build out around.

Because you look and I went back through like, once the All Summer League teams were named today, I went back and looked through some of the other All Summer League teams to see if it mattered at all and to see if it told us anything. And in fact, I think it kind of does. And I'll get to that in a moment. But all those guys like Tari Yason and Jalen Green and Shengoon and Jabari Smith and Cam Whitmore, like these guys do all play well when it comes this time of year. Like they have performed well at Summer League and shown themselves to be better than their peers in this venue.

And now it's going to be interesting to see how Udoca puts it all together. and now that they have been flanked by some veterans because certainly drafting talent has not been the problem. They've got a lot of promise. And here's just another one. As you said, they were able to take a grand slam swing with Whitmore because you've got the luxury of having all these other guys that you've got under contract. And you see which one of them hit. And you just need two of them to become big time players. If you get three of them to become big-time players, then Katie bar the door in the future.

And I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that two or three of them do become. I know you're still very high on Jala Green. I'm still very high on Jabari. And that's not even mentioning Isson Whitmore and some of the others and Schengoon and some of the others. And did you see the interview with Shengoon a couple of days ago? No. He said he said he is now over 610. He was on some podcasts.

He was like 6'8 when he came in, and now he's over 610. And I was like, oh, my God. Like, he's still growing up. And that's a different dude. He said right now I'm 6'11 without shoes. Interesting. How about that? I mean, that's a different player.

Yeah. It's a different player. I mean, that makes a difference. A little longer, you know, a little taller. Yes. It's impressive. I mean, he's a talented player. I like shun doing a lot.

Like, offensively, there's no questions about who he can become, what the track he's on is kind of this floor spacing big if the shot starts falling with better consistency, dribble handoff actions, all that type of stuff. Defensively, he's just, he's going to get a lot better on defense. And hopefully that happens. I mean, being taller helps you a little bit for sure instead of being six foot nine, but hopefully he gets a little bit quicker too. On the other side of that championship game tonight, just one guy that I did want to mention.

So I actually saw the kebs in person while I was there. Evan Mobley's brother, Isaiah Mobley, has been good throughout this. Sam Merrill, who actually was in Milwaukee and then was in Memphis for a minute and then got his career derailed by injury. So he's never really able to appear. I saw him hit eight threes in a game. I mean, the kid can just shoot the cover off the ball. But the one is Imani Bates because he is such a fascinating story. You know that I covered him in his disastrous.

year at Memphis here. And of course, transferred, went to, you know, had some trouble off the court and then had that year at Eastern Michigan where you could probably make a highlight tape of it, but that team was miserable. And much like has been the case over the course of the last several years for Imani Bates, it was Imani Bates and a bunch of whoever's with his dad behind the bench and, you You know, like, and there I am watching him at Summer League, and I'm sitting there going, oh, wow, like, he's playing within the team. He's got a little chip on his shoulder.

There's no question he is a very talented kid. Always has been from the time he was supposed to be the next Kevin Durant. Now, that's not in the cards. But I have wondered. he was always, you know, moved from school to school, AAU team to AAU team, and it was always to feature Imani Vates, everywhere along the way.

And then when it wasn't like that, Memphis, it was a no-go. And so we went to someplace, and that's kind of how the dad's always done it. And I don't think that, you know, dad's a bad guy. I think he's doing it probably, you know, because he thinks it's best.

but it clearly has not been the best for his development. And I wondered as I was sitting there, like this is probably the first time that kid's dad hasn't been right behind the bench. I mean, his dad was at practices at Memphis. So he's always been able to call all the shots. And now he's a second round pick. And I would like to see that turn out to be a good story.

I really would. And there's no question it had to be incredibly humbling. You're supposed to be the next Kevin Durant. It's supposed to be the number one pick in the draft at some point in your life. and then you're picked in the 40s. And at least for Summer League, he's made the absolute most of it.

I know you had to evaluate him like every other prospect for the draft. Kind of where were you after you watch this stuff and then versus kind of what you think now? You think Bates can end up being a guy that has a career? There's a chance. I mean, he's shooting 41% on eight attempts from three per game. and hitting mid-range jumpers as well. And I think with Amani Bates,

what we knew about him for sure is that this dude is a bucket-getter. That's what he likes to do most. That's why he's fun to play. It's also why sometimes he'd be infuriating to watch because he wasn't playing within the team concept. And even in the summer league, he's still averaging 0.6 assists per game

to 2.2 turnover. So, you know, a terrible assist-to-turn-rature ratio. He's still not passing the ball a whole lot. However, it does seem like that there has been advancements with some of the shooting choices that he makes on the floor. And so that's at least encouraging for him that that's happening already right now in July. And if he gets opportunities, whether it's with their G-League squad or whether at some point it's playing alongside Evan Mobley and Donovan Mitchell and Darius Garland and all those guys, he'll have no choice but to conform at that point. So with the Monty Bates, at the least, he's showing some progress right now. And when you project him forward in this Cleveland situation, at least on paper,

it's a great opportunity for him to be forced to conform and do the things that are necessary to earn consistent minutes. It's a perfect example of what we always talk about, right? With the opportunity and fit. And it's like him, that is a kid that his best chance is going to a good team and learning good habits. and not just being able to play any kind of way. That would wreck his development completely. Because his whole life, he's been able to do whatever the hell he wanted to do out of a team concept, right?

You go to a good team, that's your chance, right? To be able to learn, like, where do I fit in? And maybe he's never going to be the best player, you know? But can you figure out how to not be the best player? Because he's been the best player on every team he's ever been on his whole life. And if he wasn't, they moved him so that he was. Right. And so I'm hopeful because he ate for, I don't want that to be like, we look up and there's some HBO doc in, you know, 10 years.

You know, one of these, the best that never was type of things, you know. Guns and bombs part too. Yeah, like the Felipe Lopez and the, you know, all these stories that you see. you know, of these guys that were like, the best high school player in the world, he was supposed to be the next blah, blah, blah, blah. The thing is, Chris, is, you know, with Amani, he still needs to, like, I don't want to focus too much

on the things that he doesn't do rather than the things that he does do well. Amani is who he is. He's never going to be some lead playmaker running your offense. But I do hope as he gets more chances with the Cavs, you know, come training camp and pre-sees. than the regular season with both the NBA and the G-League teams. I just hope there's some advancements even more so when it comes to his passing ability.

And over the course of time, that's going to be very important for him to prove that he can play within that team concept. No question. A level beyond just being a, you know, a tall, as Jake Hyleman called him, a tall Bones Island. Totally fair. So I've told you I went back and I looked at like who the, summer league teams were just to see if it means anything last year i mean is tarry easen good quentin grimes good good good man sandro mamu i'm not even going to try to say the rest you know obviously on a very good team so it doesn't get to play um kegan murray was the MVP very good omen and ended up being a

starter on a team that had its most successful season in 20 years cam thomas just totally built for Summer League, obviously. Big time, yeah. Yeah, I mean, even you get to the second team. By the way, Camp Thomas, Camp Thomas won MVP the year prior. Two years ago. Yeah, yeah.

Along with Davey on Mitchell was good. Peyton Pritchard, O.B. Toppin, you know, and then like, you go to the second team, Paul Reed, that showed us something. Cade Cunningham, Jalen Green, Ben Matherins made one. I mean, like, most of the players ended, it did end up becoming, like not all, not everyone.

Like last year's MVP was Trenton, Watford, and Portland won the thing, right? So it's not an end-all be-all. I'm saying these championships. But I just pulled up the Summer League MVP. Listen, you're right. Like, even going way back to 2006, it's pretty good. Randy Foy, Nate Robertson, Jared Baylis, Blake Griffin, John Wall, Josh Selby, there's a miss. Damien Lillard, Jonas Valanchunus, Glenn Rice, another,

Kyle Anderson, Tyos Jones, Lonzo Ball, Josh Hart, Vernon Clark, and then the guys we mentioned, Mitchell, Cam Thomas, Keegan Murray. That's a solid list. It's not like all superstars necessarily, but that's a pretty good list,

a lot of hits. And it's a lot of careers? Yeah, guys who made a lot of money in the NBA and won some games and played for, you know, some competitive teams. And I feel pretty good about the list that came out today of the All-Summer League that's the reason I mentioned that is because they listed who the teams were today.

I feel like we mentioned or talked about virtually all of these guys. Keante George, we spent a lot of time on. Sam Merrill, I just told you, I saw him hit eight threes, and he's playing for that cat's team. Orlando Robinson, we talked about in our pod that we did at Summerlee. Cam Whitmore, we just spent some time on today. The one we have not is Hunter Thompson, who I know you posted a video of. Hunter Tyson.

Oh, yeah, yeah, Hunter Tyson. I'm sorry. Over the weekend, Hunter Thompson. That would have been amazing. In Las Vegas, no less. No, Hunter Tyson, I saw your video of him. He was just making step back after step back. I'll be damned.

Calvin Booth hit all these picks. Dude, I mean, I mean, Nuggets fans on this podcast heard us raving about Jalen Pickett going there. And within that conversation, I believe, you know, I said to you, hey, they got drafted two potential MPJ backups, Hunter Tyson and Julian Strother. Hunter Tyson is looking like more than a potential backup to MPJ. He's looking like a guy that could be a heavy minute player in their rotation because the shot making, not just off a dribble as you mentioned, but the shooting behind the arc,

getting to the basket, the hustle on defense. That dude looks awesome. And Strother, too. Straother, he didn't shoot the ball too well in Summer League, but I think that's shot will fall for him over the course of time. The Nuggets, Calvin Boothman, you know, his second year drafting for this team after taking over for Tim Conley,

looking pretty good. He looked like one of the better drafters in the league. Where was Tyson from? Clemson. Clemson. Yeah, he was a fifth year senior. Who know? You never know. Yeah, so he's...

Watching him, it felt like, it felt the highlights you put up of him, you know what it felt? It felt Max Trucey. When Max Schrucy, when Max Drews went bananas at the summer league a couple of years ago. And I remember watching him being like, how the hell is this guy not in the NBA? You know, like he just looked. He was so good.

And it's like those clips that you put up of Hunter Tyson. I'm like, this guy just hit like frigging easy stepbacks and like, I mean, in transition and good dream. He's a great example of a guy. I mean, his fifth year at Clemson. In his first four years, he shot 33.5% from three, 75.2% from the line. Not the most impressive numbers at all, not even a little bit. Then its fifth year, he shoots 40.5% on double the amount of three-pointers that he ever took before, and 83.8% from the free throw line.

I wonder, is there some, because mechanically looking at his shot, I didn't see any dramatic differences when I looked at the old film versus his fifth year. but I wonder if there's something minor going on with his hands, the way he's releasing the ball. I'd love to talk to him about that because what happened that fifth year for him to shoot so much better was in an outlier year. It doesn't seem like an outlier year considering how actually shooting well with the Summer League team, right? So I think with him, it looks like something shifted with him in his fifth year. A good example of how development is never linear for young players and that at 23, going on 24 years old, you can still get better. You know who you need to talk to about that. Your buddy J. Kyle, man.

The reason I say that is because a couple of weeks ago after the first Summer League game, he texts me and he's like, hey, has Roddy moved his thumb? He's talking about David Roddy. Did you notice where his thumb was when he was shooting? This was like the Utah Summer League. And I was like, I have no idea, bro. And he's like, yeah, well, he's like, I didn't know if he had moved to thumb and that's why he was, you know,

it looks like it's a little higher. I can't remember what he said, right? And I was like, I'm on the golf course, dude. And he's like, oh, he's like, you mean, you don't want to nerd out talking about where David Roddy's thumb is on the basketball. Well, he ended up shooting 16.7% in the biggest summer league. If he did move your thumb back. Yes.

No, I think it was up his ass during summer league. He can blame Kyle Mann if Roddy screwed up his. shot. Yeah, Kyle may have probably showed up in Summer League. He's like,

hey, oh, David, did you move your thumb when you're shooting? Now the guy's, now the guy's thinking about it every time he shoots.

Where's my phone? Yeah, probably ruined a grizzly's prospect. Thanks a lot, Jay. All right. Other guys, the second team?

I feel like... I've never, I've never heard anybody call him Jay. Jay. You just called him Jay. Sorry. Jay Dot.

Yeah. That's actually pretty good nickname. That sounds good. It's like his rapper name, J. Dot. If you screwed up David Roddy, I'm going F dot. The second team guys, we covered all them too during Summer League. I feel like

we had, we were like probably the most informational, amazing podcast for Summer League fans. Max Christie, nailed it. Christy were all over him, yep, that's for sure. Hey, Javon Freeman Liberty? Who welts for Chris Vernon talked about him?

Yeah, where do you get these names besides the mismatch. Where do you get Javon Freeman Liberty? Imani Bates hit it. Jabari Smith hit it. Jalen Wilson, I don't know who the hell that is. Sorry. Who's that?

He made second team all summer league. I don't know. I've never heard of him. That seems like one of those guys you're going to make fun of me in two years and be like, you never heard of Jalen Wilson? And then Xavier Moon. I actually watched him play

I guess last weekend. I saw him. He played for the Clippers, I think. Jalen Wilson ended up going 51st to Brooklyn. Oh. Yeah, I think I had him ranked 40 something. Did I have him rank 40s or 50s? Let me see where I had that's draft value. I had him 57. That's where I had him 57. Not draft value, actually. He drafted too high. F plus. F plus to the Nets. Jaylon Wilson. Yeah. I think I think In the middle, one of my friends texted me, one of my draft night tweets recently. And it's like way too early to scratch your own back. But I tweeted out my favorite second round picks.

This was in the middle of the second round. I said Colby Jones to the Kings, Citi Sosoco to the Spurs, Maxwell Lewis to the Lakers, Jordan Walsh to the Celtics, Leonard Biller to the Wolves. That's like four or five right now after Summer League. I feel pretty good about Jones, Sosko, Walsh, Miller. Lewis didn't have a great summer league for the Lakers. We'll see how he pans out. But Leonard Miller, looking like a major steal for Minnesota.

I mean, that guy's awesome. Jordan Walsh, unbelievable two-way presence for Boston during Summer League. I really like both those guys in City, Susoko. Nobody could get by him all Summer League at all. He's playmaking out there in his final game. He started scoring a little bit. I'm super, super high on Sosko. I like those guys.

And hopefully, you know, Maxwell Lewis pans. I like him a lot too. Sosco is my local producer, John Roser. That's his guy because he calls Memphis Hustle Games. And he played on Scoot's team. Yep. And so, of course, everybody went there to see Scoot. And he was like, I really like that Sosco guy.

He's like, he's like super active and like you'll probably be in the league. And sure enough, like, yes. He knows how to pass, man. Like Sossoco's like, boom, boom, just instant decisions anytime the ball's in his hands. Like, he's going to be such a great fit in that spurs. half court offense. I'm excited to watch him. Yeah, one one was the Marcus Sasser game. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's fun.

Marcus, like, that's the kind of guy that is fun, where it's like a guard that just gets his opportunity to just be the man for one night and then makes the most of it. 40 is a real number, no matter what kind of game you're in. They moved up for him, too. They targeted him. They said, we want Marcus Sasser at 25, and they got him. Well, and that team was so awesome. That Houston team. Oh, so fun. I don't think it would be,

I don't think it would be outlandish to look back and go, you know what, man, somebody's Houston. The reason that team was so awesome, you know, in college is because they had some real players on their team, but maybe some of them, obviously the top one is,

we're not going to be able to say went too high or went too low. But maybe some of the others, you know what I mean? Sasser included that maybe he, that we could look back and he was he's drafted too low. He was one of those names

that we even mentioned as maybe like an older guy that gets overlooked and how many times have we seen this over and over and over again way too much including from ourselves

I mean we all do it you know I had it like 40 or something and what did you need to see you know last year who was it Nemhard Nemhard

Nemhart The N. M. Hard is a good example, yeah. Where it was like, oh, yeah, he's good. Surprise. The guy was like on an awesome team and showed he was good in college and now fast forward. And guess what? Andrew Numbart is good. And he's actually playing more than Ben Matherin, who they took in the top 10.

It was so crazy. And Nemhardt, I felt like should have made an all rookie team. Yep. And we got to, and we mentioned Pickett, but Sasser may be another one from Houston. It's possible. Let's get to some NBA news because it is about to be slowdown time. You know when it's slowdown time is when a story like the headline today comes out. And I was like, this is such unnecessary drama.

It's out of control. Are you going with either Dan Levitard says something about Damien Lillard or are you going with the Joel Lombie, I want to win a championship in Philly or elsewhere? Which one are you going with? I'm going with Embedd. Okay. Well, both of them kind of apply. I mean, that being the headline, though, going that Joel Embed, like, I guess at this

film festival for one of LeBron's things or whatever, like, I went back and read the quote, and I'm like, I mean, just one sentence that's like one minor misstep, which is to say whether it's Philly or somewhere else. You're canceled. It's like, oh, like, I want to win the championship. Okay, we all accept that. Noble, noble goal, Joel, whether it's Philly or elsewhere. And it's like, or elsewhere.

Like, Joel Embed might want to go elsewhere. Like, yeah, no shit. All these guys. Like, I think if you are Joelle and Bid, You're frustrated. For good reason. If there's any of these guys that deserves to be, Joella Bede's like, I think, near the top of the list.

You had Jimmy Butler. He loves Jimmy Butler. And Jimmy Butler's been in the finals twice since he left. And they were, you know, at a razor-thin margin, maybe a Kauai shot from getting there. His two biggest sidekicks have been all-time, Flakes, who now the same situation might rear its ugly head, which is the ever-patient GM with the upset player.

And so now you're going to make a choice. Do I make a deal now or do I risk a guy trying to sabotage our season or just not even playing at all? All the meanwhile, Joel and Bede, watching Jimmy Butler. playing two finals and he's been sidekicked with Ben Simmons and James Hardin and gone through the same thing again. And he just won an MVP. He's in the middle of his prime.

That team was close, really close to being able to play in the NBA finals this year. And still, now James Hardin wants out. So whether you want to blame Hardin, whether you want to blame Hardin, whether you want to play name Daryl, whatever the case may be, you know, it's still drama. It's still like not like, hey, let's tweak around the edges, you know, kind of shore up what cost us last year and take a run at it. Once again, it's like, here we go again. I'm going to be playing for a different coach.

I'm going to be playing with a different sidekick, more than likely. And so if he did feel a level of discontent, it would be totally reasonable. But I thought this was a pretty innocent quote that was made a big deal because it's July. What say you? I agree. He said, I just want to win a championship. I don't know where that's going to be, whether it's in Philly or anywhere else. I just want to have a chance to accomplish that.

I mean, it's pretty simple. I mean, it's obvious. the or anywhere else that's bothering people today and turning it into a story. But I mean, no kidding, of course. It's kind of capped an obvious conversation of the day. Yes, there's pressure on the Sixers and Daryl Morey to get things right. They have to get it right around Joel and Bede or come a year or two or three, and Bede could demand a trade.

Oh, it's a matter. Look, if he screws up the Hardin thing, yes. It's matter of time. 100%. obvious and I think the quote is kind of an opportunity just to talk about that possibility. But in Bid saying, and I don't think it's a big deal at all, yeah, I think it's great that he cares about winning a championship and that that's the next goal for him, taking the next step in his game, is how do I improve in the playoffs rather than have my scoring efficiency drop every year in the

postseason? That's going to be the focus for Joe Al-Labeed, because as much as we talk about the situation and the supporting cast for him, his numbers have dropped virtually every single year from regular season into playoffs. So for Embed, how does he get better so he can take that step in the postseason in addition to what is Daryl Morey actually going to do here with James Harden in it? And my understanding is really nothing new. Clippers and Sixers are far apart. There's nowhere near a deal last I heard on Friday or Saturday. You know, it seems like so far that they're still unwilling to involve Tyrese Maxian trades. I wonder if that indicates a bigger role for him the way Nick Nurse, their new head coach,

imagines the offense. I wonder if maybe they have a plan for Maxie to provide even more within their offense. But it seems like right now Philadelphia is looking at this like, we don't want to trade James Hardin unless the deal is something that allows us to stay in contention, as in players coming back for James Hardin, or if it's picks that they can then flip either immediately for players who keep. them in contention or come by middle of February at the trade deadline. I think that's something to keep in mind with

Philly right now is could they do a pick space package? The Clippers are the team Hardin wants to go to. Just like Dane wants to go to Miami, Hardin wants to go to the Clippers. With Dane, the Blazers are waiting on other teams to, you know, step up and make offers,

trying to drive up the price or make something that's acceptable for them. Philly's in a similar spot right now where the clippers aren't making an acceptable offer. Are there any other teams that come to mind to you that should have interest in Hardin or might have interest in Hardin that Philadelphia could kind of toy with later this summer? Because I'm having a hard time pinpointing who makes any sense. Well, and that's the crazy thing, right? No, I cannot either. And I think that's because, you know, he opted into that contract because I think he

looked out there and saw there ain't the interest that you would think. No. For him. And so he's not getting what he wants out of Philly. There's not the interest out there. So he opts in. And that does kind of hurt your leverage because, you know, if you want to do the whole quit on my team again, now you're never going to get that big time deal. And so, you know,

more he may know that and just be like, hey, I can play this out like I did the Ben Simmons thing and say, fine. If we're not getting what I want back, if I'm not bringing back huge return for Hardin, then it behooves me to just have him on my roster. And if he wants to quit on this team or not play or not report or whatever for this team, fine.

It's going to cost him $150 million. It really will. The difference is, see, Simmons had his deal. He had his deal. He had his money. And it was already locked in to a long contract. This is a one-year deal for Hardin at a, at a, at a, at a, at a, at a, lower price. And that would be the last big deal he ever gets if he fails on another team.

Because nobody's going to be lining up to give him a big contract or sign him to some kind of extension if he bails on another one. Absolutely agree, Chris. And the pressure's on hard on there too, right? Right. Is he going to end up, you know, putting on a happy face and go back if Mori decides to keep him? But I don't know. I mean, like, just to throw a couple of names out there, like if more he's hoping somebody else steps up. Miami, if they don't get to, game, maybe Miami, but then you're trading within your conference. You're trading into a team that also is contending for the finals. How about Chicago? Out of desperation, maybe, something like that.

I don't think it makes total sense. Toronto need a point guard, maybe trade Siakum. I just don't know if Toronto makes a heck of a lot of sense considering their system either. The one team that I do think I could kind of see, even though I don't like the fit, the Timberwolves, they're in the Western conference, upgrade at point guard. He could compliment Anthony Edwards in the back court. I mean, maybe it works with Rudy Gobert. I just don't see the fit necessarily. It's hard to find a team.

I feel like I'm grasping at straws, whereas with Dame, there's a lot of teams that make sense for Dame. It's just a matter of if they're going to do it. With Hardin, there's not many teams that stand out as, oh, yeah, they should go for James Hardin right now. Right, yeah. I mean, somebody that needs, like, a, it thinks that they're a star away, you know?

Yeah. The Knicks? Yeah, I just don't like the Hardin Brunson. Brunson, I know. Right. I like. I mean, you do if you're opposing backcourt that want to score. Yeah.

Minnesota is the one that makes sense the most to me. Minnesota. Well, that guy will make shitty trades. It's like, he's on the friggin' Mount Rushmore of that. Don't Don't slander Rudy Gobert No

Yeah, cat We'll see what he does with cat Yeah Maybe you pull a three-way deal With it maybe Or something

Maybe yeah Cat to a third team Assets to Philly I don't know I'm just trying to think Outside the box Who would be We're doing this with Dame

Who besides the heat Who besides the clippers I'm just trying to think out of I'm curious if the listeners Tweet us as well Their thoughts I'd be very interested that if there's anybody that were missing.

Well, I think, and this is just what happens in the offseason. There's always going to be the stars that are out there that look around and they're like, hey, this team's doing this like, hey, look, Milwaukee brought back all their guys to make Yonis happy. And Boston went and swung for it. We'll see how it works. But, you know, Grant Williams and Marcus Smart, who have been a part of that thing are no longer there. And now they bring in poor Zingas. And Damien Lillard wants to be in Miami.

me. And God forbid, I'm Joe L.M.B. And now I'm watching my buddy Jimmy Butler also have Damien Lillard in the mix down there. And it's like, and what are we doing? I'm just sitting here watching another sidekick be upset and not want to play here anymore. Like, enough with this stuff. And so I think that obviously, look, this is a huge, huge, huge moment because it couldn't swing the bounce because he's probably got what like maybe three years of being the best guy if we're lucky like three by the way he's also got a look at the peer that he beat for MVP just had like the one of the best runs in the history of the NBA going 16 and four or whatever the hell it was in the playoffs and breaking a million records and winning MVP

of the finals. And it's like, and now you're sitting around twiddling your thumbs and you're watching other teams around you get excited about the next season and you're watching your biggest peer go and carry a team

to an NBA championship and then you're sitting around thinking about what's going on with your career. Like, again, I guess we fell into it too with the whole quote, not meaning much, but it, I think that the real, that it did get extracted is because of conversations like this, which is like, I don't think

that that one meant that much, but I think it probably would not be unrealistic if he felt like, hey, what the hell? Yeah. Like, this isn't, this isn't fun. Other news, I am so fascinated by this son's thing. After they do the Bradley Beale deal, they got like no second round picks for seven years. now they've ended up with six second round picks and they've got four first rounders

but they've also got all these pick swaps so it's one of those things that if you aren't good in 26 and 27 of these other years where they've got the pick swaps it's like those could really come back to haunt you like a Jason Tatum situation years ago like the old Brooklyn Boston thing. And many people have drawn the parallels because that was a new owner that wanted to make a huge splash and whatever else.

But just the whole way they have done this where they drained out the picks. Now they've gotten the picks back in these nifty deals that could really, the swaps could really come back to hurt you. But they've got all these second round picks. And then you look at their roster and it is four monster, monster contracts and 11 minimum. months. That is unbelievable. It's something else. Like, is this guy changing the game?

Is this the way to do it? To just pay four monster deals, like no middle class. It is America. It goes from KD. 46 Mill, Bradleyville, 46. Devin, 8 and 32. Eric Gordon, 3. 11 minimums.

And now with my guy, Bull, bowl. They added bowl bowl bowl for the 11 minimum contract. I am so fascinated by this because there's never really been a roster like this where you just decided, okay, we're going to have four that we pay a fortune to, and then the rest of the roster is all going to be on minimum contracts. Like, even the ones that have been, like,

super expensive rosters, it hasn't just been all minimum guys. Even like the Warriors, right? When you had the Warriors, it wasn't like they had Clay and Steph and Draymond, and even when they had Wiggins, and then it just plummeted, and the rest of the guys are all minimum guys.

Like, there's some other guys on that team that were making money. Not in this one. and so how mad are they going to be? Like, I'm picking the sons to win the mid-season tournament because it will have the most profound effect on their roster because there's four guys that are made men, but there's 11 guys in that locker room

that desperately want that 500 grand. That's a great, that's a great. point. They are my pick to win the mid-season tournament. I don't think anybody's going to have 11 guys that care that much about winning that thing. Yeah, where do you, where do you, do they have odds up yet on fan rules for the in-season tournament? That's actually a pretty good bet, Chris. And one thing with, one thing with Phoenix with the campaign deal, he was traded through the spurs. And they ended up opening a $6.5 million dollar traded a player exception. That can be used before the trade deadline.

So Phoenix does have the ability to add one guy making under $6.5 million. Just something to keep in mind if they wanted to trade some of those second round picks that they ended up receiving. And we'll see what they could

kind of do with that. They could make one more move but it feels like for the most part though unless they deal Aiton, there's nothing big is going to happen necessarily with Phoenix. Don't you think they will though? Dealing?

It's such a, yeah. I mean. Well, look, I think they're going to give it a chance with Aiton. They're going to see what Frank Vowel can turn him into, a new head coach, a new voice, new circumstances, and see if you get more like that version of D.A. we saw when the Sun made the finals,

when he was grinding on defense, flying around the floor, looked like one of the best young bigs in basketball versus the guy last season where it was more laziness post-contract. I hate my coach. I'm not happy here. I'm whiny type of DeAndre Aiton.

I hope we get that version of Aiton from the past when he was awesome and he was fun and he was exciting because that would be perfect for their team and if not look dude then yes you have to move him to have any chance of winning the finals. Well and he had a bigger role and better chemistry on that finals team. Yeah I mean this was before

the relationship was tarnished with Monty Williams as well fair. That was part of it and I disagree on your note though about saying he had a bigger role he took more shots, average more points last season with Phoenix than he did that year they made the championship

and with Aiton, part of it is accepting that you're not going to get a lot of touches and be happy and do what's best for the team, especially now. He doesn't want to be a role player. Well, I mean, if you want to win a championship with this team, with KD and Book and Beal and all the shooters that they have, your job is catch, screen, finish at the rim, play hard on defense.

That's the things you can do to contribute the most to winning rather than post-ups and all that type of stuff. Yeah, I think he probably wants to be the man. But who knows? I mean, once you get in the mix with three guys that are clearly better than you. And I think you can be, you can be the man of the defense. I know, I know being the man means getting bucket, scoring, averaging 20 and 10, but if you're the anchor of a championship defense, it's never been this thing, though.

I mean, maybe, you know what? Maybe he'll be happy without Chris Paul yelling at him every day. Maybe. Maybe they'll help. And then clearly he didn't get along with Monty in the end. Right. No. I think, well, look, when you've got the point guard and the head coach on your ass,

and they were on his ass, bro. Both of them. I'll tell you what. He led the league in eye rolls. There's no way around that. To me, this is the perfect situation for DeAndre Aiden. And if he doesn't make the most of it, it's his own. vault so I hope he does. I'm room for

and I think he's a good kid. He's just, you got to keep hustling, man. You got to stay on him and that's what Booker's had to do a lot over the years and we'll probably have to continue doing. It's so fascinating. I can't wait to see what happens when you've got four monster contracts and 11 minimums. Oh yeah.

It's going to be awesome. Just as a laboratory experiment, you know, what happens? Because I actually don't I weirdly, if you didn't tell me that was the case, I don't think, I like, their roster is way better than I thought it was going to be, way better than I thought it was going to be when they got the Beal thing done.

And then they've got a kind of, their roster's better than it was. And I'm extracting Beal. Just the bench is better than it was, even like a year ago for last season. right. I don't know if everybody's just going to be going on vacation and this stuff's going to be dormant now after summer league's over. But it kind of does feel that way. Maybe we will be pressed into action. We're going to be doing these pods once a week throughout this off season unless something big happens, which we've got big names out there that could very well be moved.

And so. Dame, Harden, Siakum. I know. There's some stuff that's left unsolved.

And you also have the, you know, according to, I heard Winor saying that Jalen Brown's out of

the country. Yeah, he's out of the country. So that, that extension didn't get done, at least not now.

And so that's lingering. And so that's still hanging out there. And so, you know, if that gets contentious,

you never know. Yes, sir. You don't know. You do not know. You never know. All reports, everybody around the league is hearing the same thing that I am is that Boston thinks the deal is going to get done. It's just about the timing. They've handled other business first.

Janela Brown's handling other business first. I know. I don't know. It doesn't feel that easy to me. Something's up. If it's just a rubber stamp, then it's done. I know. It's the biggest contract in NBA history.

If you're Janelle Brown, you'd want that. signed now. Give me the money. Let's get this done. And why is it not? There's no reason to drag. One thing to note, if, let's just say,

if I were consulting Jalen Brown, let's say I were part of his agency and I was part of his team, I would say, Jaylen, if you sign this deal, you are set for the rest of your entire life at forever, and your family and the family after that too. However,

for you during your playing career, if you wait until next summer to sign a new deal, then you can demand a no trade clause because he cannot currently demand a no trade clause because he's not in his eighth year of service in the league. And he also, it's an extension rather than a new contract so he's not eligible to ask for a no trade clause. If you're Jalen Brown,

when you've been involved in trade talks for Kauai Leonard, Kevin Durantz, and a whole bunch of other guys over the years, I could understand if he wants the no trade as a show of loyalty. But if you're Boston, I'm not giving that. I wouldn't want to give him the no trade clause because if things go poorly this year, next year, whether he's signed or not, you're looking for signing trades if he's not signed, or if he had already extended you're open to trading him in one year if this season is a failure for the Celtics.

So for both sides here, I just wonder about the timing with Brown if he'd be willing to gamble everything and wait because he doesn't trust the Boston front office after everything in the past. I wonder if that's part of it. and maybe for for good reason, right? I mean, these are, these are kids that were coming into the league during the Isaiah Thomas stuff, right? So, well, he's experiencing himself. He's been part of talks all the time.

And you mentioned that if you were his agent, but if you, if I were him and you were my agent, you said that, I would be like, come on. Do you mean the money? No, I would say pay attention, Bozo. No one is ever getting a no trade clause again after the beach. Fiasco ever ever no one's getting a no trade slot I don't know I don't know maybe some players might Tommy Shepard is mocked in said that you're never no way no one else had one

but listen Chris that's the thing I think a team is not going to be willing to give it but players might be more demanding it and wanting it considering they saw how Beale so easily got what he wanted for such a mid-level return It'll never have. So I think if you're Jane LeBron considering your specific circumstances, I can see why you might want to wait. Is that what's happening?

I'm not saying that to be explicitly clear. I'm not reporting anything. We're just spitball in here. But ultimately with Jaylen Brown, I wonder if that's part of it where he'd be willing to wait. But everybody around the league is hearing the same thing. They think the deal is going to get done.

It's just a matter of time. But we'll see. And much like everything else, they're letting Jaylen Brown twist in the wind. The entire timeline. It is weird. It hasn't been signed. Uneniable.

It's strange. It's really strange. Like, why not? Yeah. You know? If everybody said, it's just going to happen. Would you be shocked, Chris? Like, let's just say in two weeks randomly,

at three o'clock in the afternoon, we see a Woj or a Shams bomb saying, Jalen Brown has been traded to the Houston Rockets and a three-way. trade Damien Lillard going to the Boston Celtics, picks assets to the Blazers. Would that shock you at all? I mean, the part of Lillard going to Boston would just because of what he said.

But the rest of it? Well, he didn't say it. Chris Haynes said it. But it, I mean, come on. I mean, he might as well have had his hand. He might have had his hand in his back then when he said it's up. Of course. I know.

I agree. But it doesn't matter what he says. It matters what the best deal is from poor on side of things. But okay. So that part of my. shock you. No, if Jalen Brown ends up on a different team next year, it's not going to be surprising at all to any way. It'd be

surprising, but I wouldn't be floored blown away, kind of like when Kauai and Paul George went to the Clippers. That was a big shocker. Yeah, not after they moved off a smart and Grant and Adipors. It wouldn't be. Especially with all the, everything that went down last year. And he played pretty poorly, you know,

in the playoffs last year, even though he was the best player in the finals two years ago, but it's all added up. It's all, I don't know, probably, it might be better for franchise and player for that to just move on. But you can't lose that asset for nothing. We know that. Anyway, look, if something big breaks, we will certainly be recording some extra shows

throughout this summer. But other than that, thank you to our executive producer Jesse Lopez, as always. And I'll talk to you next week, Kit. Have a good week. better.