The Mismatch - Entering the Conference Semifinals, Hellacious Heat, and the Celtics' Cause for Pause

Episode Date: May 3, 2022

Verno and KOC recap the beginning of the conference semifinals, beginning with Heat-76ers (01:51). They question whether James Harden will ever return to peak form before giving the Heat credit for the defensive effort they've shown all postseason. They next recap the Suns' dominant Game 1 win over the Mavs and discuss Deandre Ayton’s performance (20:34). After sweeping the Nets, the Celtics drop Game 1 against the Bucks (33:32). The guys discuss what the Celtics need to do differently in Game 2 to win. They lastly go through the Warriors-Grizzlies series and discuss Jordan Poole's and Gary Payton II’s big performances in Game 1 (51:11). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, this is Justin Barrier. I'm Rob Mahoney. And I'm Big Wasa, aka Wazzy Lambray. And we are the host of Group Chat on the Ringer NBA show. Hey, did you guys know The Ringer NBA show, The Beat, now has shows six times a week. On Sundays, you can find me chopping it up with some of my favorite people from the NBA world on weekends with Waz. On Mondays, on Mondays, you can listen to Logan Murdoch and Roger Bell on real ones. And on Tuesdays, Jay Kyle Mann and Jonathan Sharks discuss up-and-coming talent in the NBA.

on Upside High. Wednesdays, you can listen to Justin, Rob, and myself on group chat. And on Fridays, check out the answer with Chris Ryan and Sirius Soe. So go ahead and follow the Ringer NBA show on Spotify. We promise you'll never run out of contact. Welcome to The Mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon. And joining me to does every Tuesday from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor,

a. Kevin Obama, Kevin O'Conert, Kevin O'Chammer, Kevin O'Champer, Kevin O'Candee, Kevin O'Candell, Kevin O'Candil. Burnow! How are you doing this morning, man? I'm great. We have a lot of conference semifinals that are going on. We had two game ones last night. So let's start with those. The first of which was Miami getting a 106 to 92 win over the Philadelphia 76ers. We're having to play these first couple of games without Joel Embed. First half looked like it was going okay for the six or second half. Miami kind of ran away with it. What did you make of what we saw from game one heat Sixers? A team that is just desperately missing its star with Joel and Bede. It's as simple as that.

You have Doc Rivers starting DeAndre Jordan, Chris, which was every Sixers fan's worst nightmare. He's a minus 22 in 17 minutes. Paul Reed, granted he can't stay on the floor without getting in foul trouble. Comes off the bench in that first quarter. Performs well. We don't see Charles Bassi. Millsap looks old when he gets in unfortunately still the Sixers don't have a lot of options but

going smaller going with more Paul Reed giving a rookie like Bassey a chance in that rim running rolling uh responsibility that Hardin likes in a center that to me seems like a better game planning game too that the DeAndre jorda who couldn't stop anybody on the ball who couldn't contain at the rim who doesn't offer the verticality that he did in the past either. It's just unfortunate for Philadelphia to not have Joe Lambeed without a lot of options behind him. But I think Doc Rivers is overthinking this in terms of using 32 different lineups in game one as Mode to Kill outline a Bleacher Report on Tuesday morning. 32. He's overthinking it. Time to simplify and go with what works. Small ball and no DJ. The DeAndre

Jordan thing is just absolutely unbelievable because you could trace this back. You remember that he was the source of get discontent with the Nets. And one of, I think, at least a reason that Kenny Ackinson, who had done a good job by most people's account, was let go. Because you remember they had Kenny Ackinson as their head coach. He was rightfully so in favor of Jared Allen being the starting center for the Brooklyn Nets and getting the lion's share of minutes because he was going to be good not only then. but also in the future. And it became rather obvious when they fire Kenny, they bring in Jacques Vaughn and they start DeAndre Jordan immediately.

You know, and so like we just had all that happen. And now DeAndre moves from Brooklyn to Philadelphia. And it's like these last two teams, people have been left going. And I don't know, maybe he's the coolest guy in the world. I don't know why these coaches. And sometimes, I suppose, in the Nets case, the players are so in on D'Andre Jordan being a part of these basketball games, of which he can have little to no effect and very possibly a negative effect. Yeah, absolutely. And it's a strange thing, you know, Chris, to be going with what.

And even after the game, he was asked about it. It's like, I'm going to continue doing it whether you're like it or not. Yeah. It's just, I don't know. I don't understand. I know there's not a lot of options. You go with a guy that you have familiarity with. He does bring some of the qualities that on paper you want, but he's not bringing those

to the floor in like in reality. It's just not the idea of DeAndre Jordan doesn't exist anymore, which is unfortunate. Like, he's a fun player to watch. Doc and DJ had great times together in L.A. But it's not there anymore. And so you have to go with the younger guy and pay. Paul Reed, who does give more versatility, still gives a little bit of pressure on the rim. You've got to go with more small ball lineups, which were at least effective in game one.

But the reality here is, Chris, no matter what you do without Joe O'Beed, it's not going to matter. Because unless James Hardin can turn back the clock and become the score he was on the past, that's what Philly needs now. Hardin has embraced the playmaking side of things ever since he left Houston with Brooklyn and now with Philadelphia. but right now he's not able to just do that. He also needs to be a score. And that's not there anymore.

He doesn't have the burst. He doesn't have the explosiveness. He's not finishing anywhere as well around the rim anymore. He's not finishing anywhere as well in floater range. Hardin's just not the same guy as a scorer at this point. Or he's hurt or both. Well, a couple of things. And those are, I mean, look.

That was music to your ears, huh? You liked hearing that. Yeah, but maybe it's not necessarily what I believe. I think there's a couple other things. A, it's the playoffs. So this is what happens. B, he took 13 shots last night. Since he's been with the Philadelphia 76ers,

I read last night he has not taken 20 shots in a game. That is unbelievable. He's averaging 13 in the playoffs. Well, and he averaged 20 plus in eight years with Houston. 20 plus shots. And he should be, he should be on the injury report. If something's wrong with him. Right. So every year somebody, there's more excuses as to why James Hardin is not showing up.

One year it was, he was tired. Oh, he played too many minutes during the regular season. Now it's, oh, he must be hurt or he's lost his burst or whatever else. Well, he has lost his burst. Okay. Sure. He is in, he is absolutely in worse shape than he used to be. Okay. That's for sure. they've also taken away a ton of what made him a devastating threat. And I do think that that has hurt his game tremendously. The fact that they don't give him the calls anymore. He can't just go in there, hook your arm up and flail. He can't come around the screen and then let you pile drive into him. All these non-basketball plays that he made an absolute limit.

off of don't exist anymore. And so when you team that up with not taking care of your body, getting a little bit older, yes, losing some first. The league has made a lot of these different things. Every trick that James Hardin would come up with to game the system, they outlawed. You know, and it's been over and over. And the other thing is... Just to put some numbers behind that for you, Chris, real quick.

This year with the Sixers, he averaged eight points. nine free throws per game. His last full year with Houston, it was 11.8. What was his MVP year? His MVP year was 10.1. 10.1? Yeah. So he went from 10.1, almost 12 a game.

Yeah, I mean, he had, he had between 10 and 12 between 2014-15 and 2019-20. He's also shooting more than he's trying to draw more files. I think that part is an aspect of it for sure. I still think like the physical decline is like you can pull up video of him, you know, his first step with Houston compared to now. Like he's just slower. He's just slower.

I mean, he might just be getting old because he's not probably putting in the care that some other athletes do when they get in their 30s. Like the results. Would you give this player a max contract? here's my thing. What other choice is there? Not giving him a max contra.

Well, here's the thing. What other choice is there because even though he's declined as a score, his playmaking is still terrific. Even though that happened, here's a stat. I have this stat in a video coming out this week for the void. James Hardin and Joe Al-A-Beed have the number one pick-and-roll.

combination over the last five years. They score 1.15 points per chance when they pair up in the pick and roll. And granted, it's a smaller sample size than many other combination. It's like 550 possessions. And it was in the second half of the season when offensive rating was higher than ever before. Teams aren't playing defense. It's statistically as much, okay?

So it's inflated. All of that said, I was surprised to see it number one over the last five years for pick and all combinations. that means it's more than like Aiton and Paul. It's more than like John Collins with Trey Young, Luca with Dwight Powell, or like Marant and Adams, Marant to Jackson, whatever it might be, better than all of them.

I was surprised by that. And the reason why is because finally, there's a guard who has unlocked what Joelle LeBeat has never been able to do, and that's roll to the rim. Hardin is the guy who brings that out of Embed creating those easy baskets. So with all that said, I think you don't have a choice here

when it comes to signing Hardin because of what he does for Embed. And I don't know if there's a better alternative than him for Philadelphia here where I don't know if there's a choice. I think they have to take the risk, even if that ends up being a bad deal on the back end because on the front end, those guys together, at least in a small sample,

given all the circumstances I outlined, they were number one in the NBA together. Very reminiscent, very reminiscent of the Darry Ben Simmons and Joe L. Embed on the court together numbers that had been that were disseminated over the course of the last two years. And it was like,

well, they're a great pairing. It works. It works together. And then I guess it just doesn't work in the playoffs. Right? Like, I mean, we saw all those numbers. The numbers with Simmons and Embed on the court together were spectacular. They were. They always were. Right? And that was, that was the

offense to, well, this isn't a natural pairing. This isn't the best fit together. And so, look, I'm interested in things that show up in the playoffs. And obviously, Joelle being out is not very helpful, but there is absolutely no way I would handcuff my franchise and have $40 and $50 million soaked up into a guy that's performing at that level. What makes you think that if you sign him up for $200 million that he's all of a sudden going to get in some kind of unbelievable shape? What is the motivation to get in some kind of, I mean, right now we saw it for about a what, three game, four game deal?

And then it just went away again. And this is when they need him most. They're playing against Miami in the playoffs and Embeds out. And you saw it last night. It's another, what, five for 13, four for 13, whatever he was last night. I mean, in fairness, Kevin, I think you can put a lot of people in a pick and roll combination with Joel and B'd and have a lot of success with it. Well, and that's the interesting thing. It's like, well, is there a replacement guard that they can be targeted who could be cheaper?

They could come in a sign and trade possibility where then letting Hardin walks is like more of an option. That would be the question. like a Jalen Brunson. Like if you could get Jalen Brunson in a sign and trade, something like that, in that case would then make sense to let Harden go. Like Brunson at 25 million rather than Hardin at almost 60 at some point. Yeah, that's a lot of money, too.

Like it's a huge risk. I agree with you, Chris. It's a risk. But I think the other side of things here is we also need to just say what heat fans are probably screaming out right now. Miami just also deserves a lot of credit. There's no question. We always talk about Miami's opponent.

It's always about how sorry, you know, Trey Young was in that deal. And now it's about the decisions that Doc made and everything else. And the truth is Miami is hellacious to play against. They are absolutely hellacious to play against. I mean, you watch them, as I said, at the beginning of the playoffs, when I watched that early in the series against Atlanta, I remember tweeting out. I said, man, like a locked in, a locked in Miami Heat team when they were passing off Trey Young to three different guys that are all a bitch to deal with.

I mean, that is a scary proposition. And because they've got, you know, one through five. And this is, they don't have Kyle last night. Hopefully they'll be able to get Lowry back. But those are guys that show up, come playoff time. and I didn't even think, honestly, Miami played well last night at all. Butler was way off. He's a 5 for 16 last night.

Of course, they'd get the really good scoring night out of Tyler Hero. And bam, bam, it was just pressure in the rim over and over. Best player on the floor by a pretty good margin. And then it gets to the point he's just showing off all of his skill set. We see the way he's improved from mid-range area attacking. Bam is becoming a more complete player where, like you said, Butler is only five for 16, but then Bam can have a pivotal role on a night like this and step his game up. And I also think, like, again with Miami, we see no Lowry.

We get Duncan Robinson with a DMP, but again, Victor Oladipo coming off the bench, 27 minutes, plays some important defensive possessions, defending multiple guys, Hardin, Maxi, showing off his versatility on that end. Didn't have a great offensive night, but we've already seen again pop on some nights, too. Ola Depot has absorbed those Duncan Robinson minutes off the bench where it might have been a weak spot with Duncan Robinson being attacked on defense. Now, like we've talked about with Boston not having weak links. I mean, it didn't look like it against Milwaukee necessarily we'll talk about. But now Miami has a rotation also without weak links on defense with Oladipo's emergence too. Well, and now, I mean, that game last night was just a debacle from three point land.

You have the heat who are nine of 36, and then you have the sixers who are even worse. There's six of 34 last night in that game. And, you know, the heat, I mean, it's Butler one for four. So you could expect that, you know, PJ Tucker's going to knock down a couple corner threes. But Gabe Vincent and Max Trues, who was your starting back court last night, they're two for 14 from three. You bring in Oladipo, he's 0 for five. I mean, so two for 19 between Gabe Vincent, Max Struz, and Victor Oladipo. That is one thing.

It's six of 34 for Philly, too. I know. It was a horrible shooting night. Somebody besides Tyler Hero better knocked out some threes for that team, though. It was an ugly game. It was an ugly game. It really was. But yeah, I think with Miami, the BAM out of bio factor plus 26.

he's just the person I keep going back to. There's just no answer for him without Joe and Labit. Without Joe Al-Bee, there's nothing Philly can do. Yeah, that's when it really sucks, right? It really sucks when you're going up against somebody that can expose it the most, right? It's one thing to not have Joel and Bid. It's another to have not have Joe L. M. B. going up against one of the best big guys in the conference.

Yeah. That's when it's troublesome. And so here's hoping we get a masked Joe L&B back, at least in this series. But certainly I think it's going to be a, it's going to be a tough hill to climb for sure. And I don't know about that doc stuff, man. I really don't. You've been getting kind of testing lately. And the whole digging in on DeAndre after the game last night is just bizarre to me.

It really is. Yeah. Like, he's terrible. And your team was like minus 1,000 with him on the court. What are we doing here? And just to be so indignant about the whole thing, I don't know. I don't know if that level of stubbornness is what's going to be very helpful going up against the 76 or going up against the Miami Heat. Yeah, not against Eric Spolstra, who is one of the most adaptable coaches in sports.

Spoe for years. I mean, we've seen him shape-shift the way he's utilizing his offense, the way he's playing defense, whether it's going to Zona. We did see, by the way, from some zone in that Philly Miami game last night, too. Nice to see. But I think with Spow, it's the total opposite of Doc. It's a total mismatch in favor of the Miami Heat. We saw that in game one.

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which was game one between Phoenix and Dallas? Luca Donchich had 45 points in 44 minutes. He ended up with 45, 12, and 8 in this game, and they lost 121 to 114. Honestly, the score was not that close. it ends up looking a lot better at the end midway through the fourth quarter that lead a balloon to 17 or 18

and all night the suns were rather in control of that game but a spectacular game from Luca and I did wonder is this going to be one of those really competitive series and that was a science of things to come because

Luca's going to really be able to get his or are we going to look back and say Luca had a really huge series no other Maverick particularly had a huge series and it was Luca versus the Suns and we know that he's got as high a usage rate as anybody in the league and

that they're going to they're going to have their success or failure dependent upon him And I don't know. I don't know. Did you walk out of that game thinking this is going to be really competitive? Or did you walk out of that game saying, yeah, Luca had a ton, but this still remains a bad matchup for the Mavs, who I believe I read have lost 10 consecutive games against that Phoenix team.

Luca always gives you a chance. He always gives you a chance. So that works in Dallas's favor. But the fact is, what I came away with is it's going to be a lot tougher for Jalen Brunson, Spencer Dinwiddie, to get going against this Phoenix team than it was against the Utah Jazz with the amount of depth they have on the perimeter.

Even like Devin Booker, watching Devin Booker defend Jalen Brunson compared to what Donovan Mitchell offered, Rudy O'Berr was 100% correct about the difference between, those two guys. Booker just so much more effort, so much better, period, fighting through screens. Aitin had a great game

as well defensively, and offensively, Aten, obviously the pressure he put in there, sort of like we talked about with BAM as well, against that Dallas smaller front line. So I think for, that's my main two things. Aiton is going to be a problem this series for Dallas,

and that's where the number one adjustment is going to have to come with what he's offering in the pick and roll, but also just the fact that for Brunson and Dinwiddie, the other guys creating offense for Dallas, it's going to be a lot more difficult for them as well. Well, and while Dallas goes on that five wide, one of the things that we talked about was, okay, so what about on the other end? So of course, Maxi Kleba, who's able to play in that five wide, he's knocking down. He starts, he kept them in the game in the first half of that game for sure, knocking down his first five. And it's like,

This is when you want Aiton in there for some rim protection, you're going to give something up. But Aitin can make you pay on the offensive end for being small. This was the Gobert criticism, right? It's like, okay, even if you don't want to blame him for what's going on on defense, we're not making you pay for being little. And Phoenix makes you pay. Aiton makes you pay for being small. And you see that show up in the rebounding numbers last night.

I mean, it's 51 to 36 last night. It's like, all right, if you want to run this out, which is good for your offense, Maxi Kleba and the rest, then here's what we're going to do. We're going to, we're going to decide that we're sticking with our guy and we're going to use him as an advantage. offensively. And that's why I think you end up seeing at the end of the game. Of all the, there's a great balance for Phoenix. Aiton ends up leading them in scoring last night. You know, like there's nobody,

there's nobody near his size. There's nobody near. I mean, I don't even know, even if you were the Mavs and you said, okay, we want to be bigger. Like, there's nothing to put out there. Right? Like, there's no, there's no way to just say, all right, we want to try to match up with this size.

They're probably doing what gives them the best chance at winning, honestly. And it was so crazy because after we watched that disaster of a three-point effort in the first game, there you're watching the Western Conference. And Dallas is 16 of 39. They're 41% from three. And the sons weren't far behind them. They're 11 for 28 from three. and they obviously just kill you from mid-range too.

They got guys all over the court that could just get to their spots and knock down shots. I was pretty damn impressed with Phoenix last night for sure. Absolutely. Chris, you highlighted Aiton again. I like just the combination with Chris Paul who played another great game, him and Devin Booker. Chris Paul, DeAndre Aiton, they scored 1.8 points per chance together in the pick and roll. that's the season high for those two.

They didn't run the most pick and rolls. They only ran 25 in the game. But that 1.8 points per pick and roll is number one for them the entire season. So I think that it's indicative of what we're talking about here too with just the issues this is going to present for Dallas throughout the series. Well, and I like the Aiton's gotten that little floater, you know, where he can stop up quick. It's very reminiscent. Honestly, of course, I watch all these Memphis games.

It's very reminiscent of watching how. Marant and Clark play it together, which is two guys end up being drawn to Morant. And if you're good at slipping, now you can either go straight to the basket and dunk it, or you can pull up about four feet away from the basket, five feet away from the basket, and knock that in. And that is something that Aiton has absolutely developed. And he's such a bigger problem than Gobert for that exact reason you're saying. Because he can do more than just dunk or lay the ball up.

after he can dribble. He can put the ball on the floor if he needs to. And he's got to touch. And that's really where he's killing it. Yeah. He does. He does. And Chris Paul is better than anybody at creating those easier opportunities too, of course.

I do think it's promising that Luca was so damn awesome. And that would make me feel like, it would make me feel like Dallas is going to make this competitive, honestly. I was way impressed with Phoenix. But I can't deny. I mean, geez. one of the things you look for in these games, in my opinion, is, all right, how were your best players able to perform in the games? And you see the way this guy performed?

Yep. I guess McHale Bridges. I mean, you see the way he performed. It's like, okay, I got a chance to make this competitive. If my best guy is going to be able to perform at that level, And I didn't think maybe I'm crazy. I didn't think there was anything like crazy about his game last night. I really didn't.

By crazy you mean. Like that you couldn't replicate. Yeah, okay. Is that, yeah. That's the way I took it. Yeah. Like a one off. Like a one off like, oh, wow.

You remember when McKell Bridges had 30-something points in the game? Like, yeah, that was amazing. But like, we know that that's not going to be common. even if Devin Booker's not in the lineup. Like he's not a guy that's going to be getting you 30 regularly. There was nothing, nothing that felt like wildly out of the ordinary. I agree with that. I mean, that's why that's why we, we opened this Suns Mavs talk just by pointing out,

you get a shot. You get a shot when you have Luca on your team. The question is going to be, what are you getting from everybody else? You got the three points shooting. As you said, Max and Cleaver was huge. huge five of eight, 41% as a team. You got the shooting in game one, but you didn't get the great individual game one performances.

Jalen Brunson, six of 16, he looked like the guy that Rick Carlisle cut the minutes of last year in the postseason. He didn't look like the guy in the first rounder was averaging over 25 points per game. He didn't look like the guy who was averaging 21 points when Luca was out in December. He didn't look like that guy. He has to look like that guy. Or Step Spencer Dinwood needs to start looking like the person.

he did at his best with Dallas earlier the season. He has not been good lately last couple of weeks. He needs to improve both of those guys. Need to look like the best versions of themselves, particularly Brunson, though, with the role he plays. And I will say this for the Mab's benefit. You know, I've been keeping up with my guy's shot quality throughout this. And they've been pretty on with, you know, they're just telling you,

here's who took the shots. Here's where they took the shots from in an average game. here's what is typically taking place in that game. And last night was actually a shot quality upset. The Mavericks shot quality score was 115 to 110. And the computer popped out that the Mavericks win that game 65% of the time. So it's something to just keep an eye on, right? We've mentioned this before.

And that has told a story about kind of the way. the game was played. It also was the case in the 76ers game, unbelievably, last night, that in terms of their shot quality score, that the 76ers would have won the game 65% of the time. And as we always say, look, these games are not played on paper. You know, they're played by actual human beings. But it's a reference point,

and it's something to at least keep an eye on, because as we've talked about it in the past, it in many cases has flushed out to where the team that is typically getting the better shots in the game, their shot quality is better. There's always a randomness involved, but over the course of a series, very rarely is a team going to lose the shot quality scores four times or win the shot quality scores that much,

but yet lose the series. And so maybe those teams performed a little bit better than we thought. It got better looks than we thought. But again, I'm just giving everybody the information. And it's certainly something to hold on to if you're dallas, you know what I mean? Say, all right, if we get those same shots, we typically win games. I mean, I'm always never sure about stats like that.

but it is intriguing especially with three-point shooting because that's such a streaky thing yes and i just looked up shot quality's twitter as you were mentioning the philly miami thing they they followed up with a tweet because they got kind of like you know hated on well how can you say this there's something wrong with your metric yeah and they responded and the 1,282 games played this season just five teams have underperformed their expected three points total more than philly did last night they scored 23 fewer points than expected from three based on their trends throughout the year and what they would normally shoot. So that's just that is something.

It's keeping in mind. That's not outlandish. They shot under 20%. Yeah. Yeah. Right. I mean, yeah, I suppose like another way to say it is like, oh, they had, they shot under 20%. That's all you're going to say.

You don't need the calculation. Yeah. Like, of course they were expected to get more than that. Shit. Imagine if you were expected to hit 18% of your threes. Oh, gosh. You have a pretty rough go of it. Yeah.

You're the process Sixers. Yeah. So here's hoping, here's hoping that both those series can be competitive. You don't want to make too many grandiose statements based upon game ones. And that is a perfect segue into Milwaukee Boston, which, in fair, I've not heard a tremendous amount of grandiose statements made regarding that, but I certainly think it was cause for pause on the Celtics fever that had been taking over. Yeah.

It's not like a radio host over there. Cause for pause. That was game one. Game one was cause for pause. Like a newspaper headline writer or something like that. Yeah. And it actually... Boston Globe.

Game one. Cause for pause. Perfect Boston Globe. Headline. Yes. Cause for pause. Yeah. It's pretty good. Also, enabled today's show to not be led with you asking me if I still believe in the Celtics.

So there's that. So I mean, like how much, how much is, so in that game one, Milwaukee wins that 101. How much of this do you think is... Let me ask it this way. What is your concern level? You said cause for pause. But what is your concern level with Boston after in that game one?

Tatum's contained defense... Decently high. Decently high. High. Yeah, and here's why. Anybody could go back and listen to our Friday show. There's two things I talked about regarding this particular series with you.

And I said, number one, we know that Yannis can be the best guy in the series. Who's going to be the second guy for both of these teams? Who's going to be the other guy that picks up the slack? Because it's even more important now that Middleton's out. It's not a natural. Here's the second guy. It was Drew Holiday. Drew Holiday was fantastic on both ends of the court in that game.

All right. So good, dude. That would be calls for pause. The second thing was, and anybody can go back and listen to it, I said, you can't make your living from two against Milwaukee. They are 30th in giving up threes. That's how you're going to have to do it. And does Boston have the goods to make them pay? And they were, that is out of character for them to take 50 friggin' three.

They took 53s in that game. And I know you had posted the stat. I mean, you're not making a living from two against them. It's just not. And can you make them pay for playing the drop coverage thing? We saw Atlanta do it. And a lot of it was those high picking rolls. Now you've got a decision to make with Trey Young.

He can stop up short. and knock down the floater or he can lob it to Capella behind him. Who's going to be that playmaking guard or wing that they're getting the ball to that can punish them for playing the drop coverage and or who's going to be the big that's standing out in the corner like Maxi Kleba style banging down threes to open that thing up because they were menacing in terms of guarding the line. the rim. You're not making it, you're not making it living at the rim against that team. So you better figure out how to do it at least get you some lobs, get you some duckins

where Robert Williams is, you know, in the dunker spot. And you can get him to come up, but, you know, you get Lopez to come up on you, lob it over his head, or get somebody out there in the corner that's just forcing him to be away from the rim. Because as long as you're going to let that guy stand in front of the rim. You know, you're going to let that guy stand in front of rim, you're in trouble. Remember last week we talked about who's defending Tatum? Will Janus have to defend Tatum? 74 matchups in game one, according to Second Spectrum.

Yannis defended Tatum for one of those. Wesley Matthews and Drew Holiday were the primary defenders against Tatum by far. To me, it's simple. This all starts with Tatum. If he's able to force Janus away from his position and help where he's just so destructive around the rim causes so many issues for Boston played into that Kurt Goldsbury stat you mentioned earlier where Boston is one for 25 or whatever it was when defended by Janus or Lopez inside the ark. If you can pull Janus out of that onto Tatum,

that changes everything for both ends for Boston's offense and Milwaukee's defense with the way they both operate and the things that they can do. Unless that happens, it's not going to go well for Boston. So Tatum really needs. needs to start making either Wesley Matthews or Drew Holiday pay using his size, scoring ability. And that's not easy to do. Drew Holiday is amazing. He's incredible on defense.

He can defend bigger guys like Tatum. And Wesley Matthews is very strong in his own right, too. You're absolutely right. I mean, because this goes back to the old, you know, Milwaukee when they're at their best. And In Janus is almost like a free safety. So he's just getting to cover up any kind of defensive mistakes that are made. So now all of a sudden. you drive past.

Let's say, let's say in this instance, Tatum just drives past West Matthews and he's going to the rim. Yonis just leaves his guy and goes and pins it against the backboard. Whoever Yonis is assigned to also has to,

they got to be able to make some shots. You know, make him, keep him honest. And part of that, certainly, it would go a long way towards if Tatum

can just start torching somebody that'd have to move him on to him. One thing that's also interesting, you know, like so Janus, he defended Jalen Brown the most statistically. 21 matchups against Brown, 17 against Horford, 13 against Robert Williams, 11 versus Robert Williams. So he defended a lot of different types of guys. Jalen Brown in the 21 matchups, the tracking data says he scored zero points. I can believe that. He, hell, he was two for 11 until the last couple minutes of the game, which were those meaningless two

buckets. Yep. I mean, for all intents of purposes, he was two for 11 in that game. Yeah. Now, that maybe be, you know,

I said golfs for pause. Maybe that's sign of, maybe that's something promising. He was awful. He's turning the ball over like crazy. Jaylen Brown was terrible. He's not that bad. No.

And, you know, is it because he got the honest treatment a lot? Is it because, he's a little nicked up, you know, what is it with him? But here's what we know. He was bad. And the same way we were talking about Janus and having that second banana and Drew be so good.

Tatum's got to have Brown be great because there is no other natural guy to step up and be the second best guy for that team. and that obviously went a long way towards their demise in game one because they can't have a bad jailer. They have to have a very good Jaylorbrow, much less a terrible one, you know. Also, uh, Javon Carter coming off the bench. Just want to highlight,

it's pretty cool to see him carving out a role on this Bucks team. He's pretty good. He knows how to steer the ship. It's my guy. He's a good player, isn't he? You don't think that, you don't think Brooklyn could have used him? Yeah. Just cast off.

Yeah. They're going to pay him. They're going to pay him to play for them. That's a true story. Brooklyn is paying for Milwaukee. It was an 1819. He first played for Memphis that rookie year. Yep.

Time goes by quickly, man. 1819. That's crazy. I still see his mom all the time. She lives in Memphis. So, of course, that was heartbreaking. when Javon got traded. He's played for good organizations.

He has. Yeah, good start for him. That Brooklyn thing was a disaster for him. Yeah. Yeah, that's going to work out. Memphis, two years in Phoenix, Brooklyn, Milwaukee. Well, you could go and find the clip. You know, Javon is cut from a different cloth now.

This is a, this is a Rottweiler, all right? Yeah, he is. Only thing that matters to him is winning, putting in the work, the whole nine. You can go find the clip. online of him yelling at Hardin. They had their headbutts. So he didn't he didn't take he didn't take well to, you know, showing up at practice smelling like tequila.

Oh gosh. It's not, it's not his deal. Yeah. This is a this is a guy that these are kind of guys you want on your team for sure. And he showed up in game one. He's a menace defensively. Yeah, polar opposites in terms of that intensity level. on defense approach.

Javon, Javon Carter's, like, that's why he's getting chances with these good organizations. You said his mom was upset with the trade getting... From Memphis.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, she lives in Memphis. So she still lives there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, I mean, yeah, that wasn't great. Yeah. I mean?

It wasn't great for him to get traded from Memphis. It was a dream for him to get drafted by Memphis. And then, of course, he got moved. from there. She rooting for the Bucks? Of course. I guess she's rooting for a Gris Bucks finals.

When they came in, when, when Milwaukee came here, they all went over, she cooked for the whole team. Oh, that's cool. Yep. They all went over, they all went over to her house and she cooked for everybody. Yeah. So I'll always, I'll always root for him. He's a great kid, great family.

And I was so happy to see him. He's, he's a foxhole guy. He is. A game high. game high plus 25. Yeah. Yonis is only plus 23. I don't know what that says, but.

Better than Yonis? Yeah, you know what it does say? I think it says that those types of guys, in fact, winning. That mindset, that approach to the game, that that's a perfect guard to have on a team with Yannis, isn't it? Because they're like-minded. All right. Let me ask you this.

Because it's, who cares what I think, Kevin? are you worried for the selfers? I mean, I picked the going seven anyway, so am I worried about it being a five gamer? Would you stick with that? Yeah, I'll stick with seven. Would you stick with that for $500? What kind of odds am I getting here? I don't want even odds here.

They don't want out. This doesn't seem fair. You don't want even odds. You reminded me of like Dr. Evil when he starts off saying a million dollars. One billion. But then he changes to a billion. That's right. What is that?

When he's making demands or something like that? Hey, look, when you said I don't want even odds, that was the true definition of cause for pause. Yeah. I don't know. We should do some, right now in the moment, we should do cause for pause rankings with the game one losers. Who has the greatest cause for pause of the four teams that lost? Number one pick, Chris Vernon.

Cause for pause. I think Boston, Boston felt the worst about themselves. Is that fair? Like, I'm talking about like the post games. Right? I think you heard that and it was like, we got punked out.

they punched us in the mouth they were so physical we weren't ready for that like you know all that kind of talk and Milwaukee Milwaukee also just like aesthetically Boston looked huge in round one against Brooklyn

Milwaukee looked huge against Boston in that game won didn't say the gigantic I think because I would just say that like that felt like just listening to them now I'm not saying that they can't rebound and if they won the night's game

by 25 points. It's not insane to think, right? Like, it can't happen. And we could be saying, see, we knew without Middleton. And that was just a one game thing. Like, we've gotten caught doing this so many times. Hell, we,

we did previews of the Clippers versus the Lakers. So you never want to make too drastic. Oh, I mean, that was really a season long preview. Yes. Right. You know what?

You don't want to make too drastic a statement. I'm just saying, like, watching the postgame press conferences from the different ones, I think Dallas feels like, hey, we can clean some stuff up and this is, we can be very competitive. Philly, you know, there's this, there's this. I kind of set them aside because they don't have their guys. Well, that is a cause for pause, though. Yeah, for sure. You might feel like, geez, we're going to go back to Philly down two oh.

Well, they all. Yeah, they are 100% going back to Philly Down 2. Memphis feels good about themselves after the game against the Warriors, because it went down to the very last shot, right? So number one is Boston for you? I just think the way they talked about it, you know, which was we were out physicaled, we were out muscled, we were out, you know. And I just think that I have just been inundated with everybody talking

about the Celtics like they were God's gift to basketball, and then they got humiliated, you know? I mean, I have had to sit here for two straight months with a co-host, berating me for saying I didn't think they could make the NBA finals. So, yeah, I'd have to put Boston number one, Keff. As that host berating you, I'll say that's a fair number one pick. It is.

Yeah. I just think that are, it's without Middleton. Yeah. I think, you know, what we, the way, I would say that one was the biggest surprise in terms of the way it played out. Is that fair? Yeah. Without question. So that's why it would be my answer.

I'm not saying they can't get it back together. I'm not saying they can't be more physical and figure out things that's going to exploit Milwaukee. And that that, they, I think they were caught by surprise. after they beat the crap out of the nets and that they weren't ready for it. But they're in this position for a reason, and I don't think that they, it is, I don't think it's a possible thing

that they could get it back together. I don't want to make any grand sweeping statements about that. But in terms of the game one results, that was the only surprising one. Sure, yeah. With the way Milwaukee just handled them, the whole game. Well, also just in terms of who won the game.

Milwaukee was the underdog. Yep, on the road. They're the only underdog that won the game. The Warriors were favored. The Nets were favored. Phoenix was favored. Like we said with Luca, Chris, always gives you a chance to win games,

has 45 in that game one loss. With Janus, same thing. He always gives you a chance with what he brings to the floor. And he's going to have a 40-point game at some point. He's going to have 50. In game one, he only had 20. 24 points on 25 shots, 9 or 25 from the field. But it just felt like, as we talked about,

defensively in control of the game, but offensively, too, his playmaking, he showed the progress there with his ability to create, generate passing opportunities for his teammates, 11 assists. He had some early turnovers, but once he cleaned that up, Janice, again, just showed his ability to impact the game and so many more ways beyond just scoring,

and that's why he's the best player in the world. And we also don't need to completely bail on, and I'm not saying you are, I'm just saying the world. No need to completely bail on Tatum as a guy that could go with you the games. Of course not. Because he is also a guy that,

if Jason Tatum showed up a 40-point game, it wouldn't be shocking to anyone, right? He established himself as a guy that could be the best player in playoff games. He just went heads up, and I know this is a different animal, but he just went heads up with Kevin Durant in a series, and he was by far the best player in the series.

So he didn't have a great game in game one. And his running mate was pathetic. And so I don't think it's, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that we have not heard the last of Jason. I'll tell you, that was just a bad game. Absolutely not. Memphis Golden State.

Obviously, I'll be there tonight after that Milwaukee Boston game is on. Memphis plays Golden State. What do you think about game one? I was thinking during the game if you were worried at all about the smaller lineups. Because I know we talked about it last week. It's a better matchup for

like Jaron Jackson. He played 31 minutes. Only had three fouls. That's positive for them moving forward. Like we're talking cause for pause. Yeah. I think like you're probably feeling relatively optimistic about the way Memphis handled some of the smaller stuff from the state. Are you? I think just with the

you know, like I was saying with the Luca, thing and this may be a fool's errand. But how did your best players perform and John Moran could clean some stuff up? It took him too many shots to get his points, but he has had a lot of success against the Warriors and I would imagine we'll continue to. And the fact that Jared Jackson was as good as he has been the entire season is very

promising. Meanwhile, Clay and Steph combined for 39. So you can look at that any way you'll want, right? The positive outlook is, hey, the Grizzlies guys, look at how they performed in that first game. And that's promising going forward.

The devil's advocate is, yeah, well, you should have gotten that one because how many times you're going to count on Steph Curry going for 24 and Clayton going for 15? I don't know. I mean, Jordan Poole was the guy that killed him. That was the guy that killed him. He

was unbelievable. and I do think it matters greatly. You know, they've got Desmond Bain, who got banged up in that game and just was not himself afterwards. They've got him listed as questionable for tonight's game. And that could be a tough loss, you know, because he has been sensational for them in the playoffs. No, I've never been concerned.

I've never been scared of. of the warrior's small, small lineups. That is one thing that the Grizzlies do have pretty natural matchups for. Because they got wings on wings on wings, and they've got a really athletic big. They got two mega athletic big guys. And so being able to play Clark and Jared Jackson together is shown to be very, very successful over the course of the season.

do we expect any chance of seeing size in this matchup bringing out Stephen Adams as like some you know curveball in a third quarter? Yeah. Like what cards does Taylor Jenkins have that he hasn't pulled yet? I guess is my question. Especially if Bain is out. Yeah. I mean, I know a lot of people were watching that game the other day. We're like, still not going with Adams.

Adams, he's on the COVID list. He's not available anyway. So they can't play him yet. I do think Stephen Adams will play See, is he back? Is he back now though? He's not. And now...

He's not back yet? Yeah, I don't know the way. You know, you got to test out three, two consecutive days. I think today would be the day if he could somehow, if he could somehow get the test, but they listed him as out yesterday. Yeah, because four days ago, April 28th was when he went in protocols. Yeah. So he's probably close. Maybe not today, but then game three in that case.

Yeah, yeah. He's not available. They listed him as a house. So he's out. Okay. He's still out. Okay. Yeah, he's out.

And maybe like the Looney minutes, right? Because Looney's not a guy that's going to stand out at the three-point line either. I know you could get him to pick and rolls and whatever else. But Adams has had some moments where he's really held up well against the Warriors in the past, both with Memphis. I mean, you can go back to the Oklahoma City days. He was able to stay on the court some. So, yeah, I think there, and he's a guy that can punish you offensive rebounding. He did in a game earlier this year.

year against them. You know, and I know Dremont got thrown out of that game. Well, that's what I was about to say. Like, we haven't even mentioned that yet. Dremon, Dremon gets ejected after 17 minutes. Yep.

Well, and I was texting with you and I said, but losing a game, Dremon doesn't finish. Isn't that the ultimate cause for Paws? Maybe, but he was terrible. He had five turnovers in his 17 minutes. And they were playing. so much more up-tempo, which is what he does.

He gets the ball off the rib and he goes. He doesn't have to wait for a guard. He goes. And the Grizzlies want these games to be up and down and up and down. And once they're putting out Looney and some other lineups, you saw a lot more half-court sets. We run a play. You run a play.

And, I mean, they are just, they put so much pressure under defense. They are so, it's beautiful basketball to watch. It really is. I mean, they're just cutting and screening and constant movement. There's a guy running the baseline, and there's a guy doing a dribble handoff, and it's just, then they're shot faking, but then they're stepping to the side rather than driving, and then they whip it over to pool after you close out, and he's shot fakes, but then he drives. And then he throws it out.

I mean, it's just, they're constantly. moving screening for each other. And the last thing the Grizzlies want is to be playing in a, we run a play, you run a play game. I talked about this against Minnesota because they got a lot more isolation basketball guys than Memphis does. Memphis isn't loaded with isolation guys and they're not loaded. There's one guy that's really going to consistently put pressure on you,

create his own shot kind of guy. And that's Moran. But there are guys that can just absolutely fly up and down the court, get in space, finish, dunk on your head, the whole thing. And so I thought the game slowed down a little bit. Honestly, when Draymond went out, not that they're better without Draymond. I'm saying it played into, they ended up being forced to play a way that actually was much worse for the Grizzlies hopes, I thought. at least in that game one. Yeah, in that game one.

Yeah, because he has, like you said, he was sloppy in that first half. Yeah. Five turnovers in 17 minutes. Game two, he might be really cleaned up. Yeah. Well, and they're not going to just magically grow a good matchup for Jared Jackson. He's big for Draymond, and he is too fast for Looney. You know, like they don't have a natural matchup for him.

So in the same way that Minnesota was just bad matchups all over the place for the Grizzlies, it's not as much. But I did come away. Certainly, Poole was awesome. And we were talking about Javon Carter earlier, like those kind of Rottweiler-type guys that the box score. If you looked at Javon Carter's plus minus,

it tells a story, but that's really where you need to look. Man, Peyton. Peyton is Isn't he something else? Oh, he's that guy. He's special. He's one of those for sure. He is one of those that you

You know, you're Picking teams at the park. You're picking him. You want that guy on your team because you don't want to play against that guy. He is, he's tough dude, man. And he's good basketball player.

Like he, he plays within that. You've got to be smart to play with them. You really do. You got to be a smart. I'm talking basketball IQ. You got to be high basketball IQ a player or else you're not going to be able to cut it with the Warriors and the way they play.

And he fits that mold too. A lot of times, a lot of times when you find the guy that's the, you know, the toughness or whatever, you can't just inject them and put him into beautiful basketball too, right? You put Tony down, and I'm saying this as one of my best friends in the world, you put Tony out in the Dunker spot. That's what you do. You know what I mean? Like that guy, that guy, your Rottweiler guy, he's not, he's not screen,

down screening and triple handoffs and flying around everywhere. And Peyton is just part of it. And meanwhile, he's just in your airspace. I love him. Defendant Jha, most on the team. Yeah, and like you said, he's doing it all offensively, crashing the boards too. Oh, God, every friggin missed three.

That long rebound, he's fighting you for it. Mm-hmm. You know, tough dude. Every pain does it all, man. And Poole was just freaky. I think, yeah, wait a 31, 9, and 8. something. Yeah.

Yeah. What a game. Off the bench. Yeah. I do think that's going to be, it's going to be a competitive series, though. I do. I think we'll probably see a, I'd be surprised if we didn't see a game six. I would.

You'd be surprised? Yeah. If we didn't see a game six with the way these teams have played against each other, you know, Steph is when John Morant missed the leg up, he was like clapping. And he walked, uh, he walked right by them like, underneath the stanchion. And it was like John Clark and whoever else, Sharon maybe.

And he was like, it's going to be a great series, boys. You know what I mean? I mean, Curry knows. I mean, these teams have played very good basketball games against each other. And I will say that. Being there, that was a great basketball game.

It really was. Yeah, that was a great game. Probably the best of the four. The theatrics Down the stretch and everything Yeah The game Yeah

Of the games that I've seen in person So far Playoff games Oh no no I mean of the Of game ones Game ones From this route

Yeah that was the best one right Of course Yeah not even close Yeah It wasn't even close Yeah It was a great game Yeah it's a great game

It came down to the last shot Those other ones Weren't nearly as competitive It's kind of amazing going from, you know, that game, Sunday night to Monday, Miami, Philly. And then Ross fight. Yeah, the difference in quality, but also the difference in crowds, that Miami crowd didn't seem to have the intensity that the Memphis crowd did. I also think the reps are getting a little bit, you know, obviously, look, when you get to this stage, you get better assignments. You get more of the veteran officials.

but I also think we're seeing a little more basketball too. Yeah. That first round was just mired with... Well, especially for Memphis. Just with every... I'm saying across the board. Hollinger wrote an article about it, which is like, what the hell is up with all these whistles?

Yeah. It's like every game you watched. A lot of free throws in the first round. So a little bit cleaner. A little bit cleaner. I'm excited, though. There's going to be some good games tonight. I kind of think Boston and Memphis can even up their series.

It is kind of backs against the wall situations for both of those teams. Because you're really in trouble. You go down 02. I know we've had, you know, different series that, you know, teams have come back. But you drop the first two at home. You're in trouble. Let's rank them then. cause for pause for pause ring is you get Boston number one I got Boston number one too

who's your number two well I mean look Philly's number one just because yeah oh yeah if okay yeah Philly's number one because I guess what's our criteria that we're factoring in the fact like you know we know they're going to likely go down too well okay so in that case Philly one yeah Philly Boston Boston ahead of Memphis for sure yes yes one of them lost on a missed layup at the buzzer the other one lost by double digits so fair okay so one Philly two Boston

uh street Memphis Dallas and Dallas and Memphis are the other two choices the only thing that would scare me about the Dallas thing is it's 10 in a row you know me that's a major trend like they just have not been able to beat that

team, regardless of Luca being awesome or not. You know, the confidence level can't be all that high. But I think you would have to say, I think you would have to say probably let's put Memphis ahead of Dallas just because at least Dallas is on the road. Right? I think that's fair. I'm saying, oh, I mean, yeah, Memphis ahead of Dallas. So I put Dallas last just because they were, they're on the road. They're playing at Phoenix.

So until you lose the home game, I don't think it's really fair. But Memphis and, so Phillies is because of the ambit thing. Boston and Memphis are because they've lost home games. And then Dallas last because their guy was awesome. And they haven't lost at home yet, you know. I think, I think those rankings are fair. I think you could argue flipping Boston and Memphis. What?

I mean, you could argue it. They lost at home when gold say they didn't have Draylon's. Oh, God. I know he started off poorly, but he's Draylon Green. I wish he would have been around. He could have had 10 turnovers instead of five. By the way, they were a plus two in his minutes still. Plus two?

Wow. Plus two? I know. What were they in Looney's minutes? What were they in? In Looney's minutes, they were a minus two. Oh, my goodness. Huge drop-all.

Yeah. One-point game. It was. It was a one-point game. I can't wait for these games. This is going to be great. And I'm very hopeful that these teams all tie up the series so that we get some really good series.

Because we only, we didn't have good series in round one. You know, we didn't have, we didn't have any game sevens. Nobody got pushed all the way to the brink. And, I mean, that Memphis, Minnesota was like one of the, was that the only game six? Did anything else even go six games? Maybe Dallas and Utah. I can't remember. Yeah, I did.

Yeah, Dallas and Utah. Yeah. just not a bunch of great series in that first round, not nearly as competitive. So hopefully now that the competition's gotten greater, the competition or the series of people. The game sixes, New Orleans,

Suns. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, and then Raptors Sixers. That was terrible. Yeah,

it's just the game sixes were forgettable. Yeah. That was, you could cut that thing off in the third quarter. That was, that was rough. We liked the, we like the Raptors chances.

too. That's tough. Tough spot. Well, hopefully. Jess, if you can, go back and delete that. That part where we were talking about, we like the mojo for the Raptors and all stuff. So you can find that pod.

Just delete all that. It'll be the missing audio chunk. It'll be one giant bleep. Yeah. Just one giant bleep. Or we can record something a little bit later that just talks about how much we're not believing in this Raptors thing. And we think the sixers are going to kill them. We'll record after everything finishes, we'll just record exactly what happened.

And I'll go put it back in the last pod. That way you guys sound like geniuses. You've predicted it 100%. Perfect. I would encourage you to do that with all of our podcasts if you can. Thank you to our executive producer Jesse Lopez as always. Kevin, I will talk to you on Thursday. Have a good one, everybody.