The Mismatch - Finding Hope in Detroit and Looking Back at the 2021 NBA Draft Class With Nick Henkel | The Void

Episode Date: January 20, 2022

Welcome to ‘The Void,’ where Kevin O’Connor brings you deep inside the NBA with the people who know it best. In today’s episode, KOC welcomes Nicolas Henkel, who covers the NBA and the Pistons for Piston Powered and Wave.TV. They discuss Cade Cunningham’s improvement before debating whether anyone else can win Rookie of the Year besides Evan Mobley (09:03). Looking back at the draft, the guys are in agreement that the Bulls got the best steal with Ayo Dosunmu (20:24). They next debate whether Killian Hayes and Cade can coexist (29:45) before discussing the best fit for Jerami Grant (43:24). They last look at the NBA landscape and debate who’s going to the Finals this season (50:39). Host: Kevin O’Connor Guest: Nicolas Henkel Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Ring Your Wrestling show is getting you closer to all things pro wrestling. The Masked Show with David and Kaz drops every Thursday on the feed, along with the new show hosted by pro wrestling superfan Evan Mack called MacMania. Plus, hear instant reactions to all the biggest WWE pay-per-view events with our post-paper-view shows. Check out The Ring Your Wrestling Show on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, thank you for listening to The Void. Today we're talking NBA rookies, Detroit Pistons, Jeremy Grant. It's a great conversation with Nick Henkel, who covers the...

the NBA for Wave TV. He also is the co-host of a great Pistons podcast called Bun and Cardigan with James Edwards, a really great Pistons writer over at the athletic. Nick's got his start on YouTube well over a year ago. He's funny. He's insightful. I really enjoyed my conversation with him, which was recorded live on Spotify Green Room. And we got into NBA rookies, Cade, Mowbby, Ayodosum, Herb Jones, Franz Wagner, a bunch of different guys. Then we talked Pistons and the potential ripple effects of a Jeremy Grant trade as well as the teams that should be going for him. I really love this conversation and I hope you do too. Here's my conversation with Nick Henclan. You did say you grew up a Pistons fan, right? You're still a hardcore Pistons fans today.

Oh, of course, yeah, whether it was like even after I moved to Chicago and now living out here in L.A., it's like, yeah, like till I die, I'm a Pistons fan, of course. The through line for our conversation today, I mean, is the Pistons. So we're going to talk rookies, talk a little bit of Detroit later, and then some teams that should be going for Jeremy Grant. Nick, so we're at the halfway point of the season right now, and I want to take the temperature of the rookie class. And by handing out some awards,

rookie of the year, most obvious future All-Star, biggest steal, stuff like that. And we saw on Saturday night, we've seen a lot of good rookie performances. Evan Mowgli coming up, big down the stretch for Clemen, Omer Yertziven, just rebounding everything possible. Again, Bones Highland, having a great night for Denver.

So there's been a lot of good rookies this season. start with rookie of the year. Right now it has to be Evan Mobley with his defensive versatility scoring and playmaking. What is impressed you the most about Mobley's rookie season in Cleveland? I think the craziest thing is, I mean, one of the knocks on him kind of coming into the draft was people get really antsy over frames, and I think rightfully so, especially when you're a big. Like, if you're a guard, then you can rely on your speed, like, you know, it's passable. But it was always just a matter of like, okay, what is and isn't going to translate for Evan Mobley at the next level? And it turns out everything is. Like, just, it just,

everything. And I think with Rookie of the Year, it's, it's more of like how good the calves have been. Like, it's just an indictment on like the record and, and how integral he's been to the whole operation. And the one thing that I feel like not a lot of people have pointed out, so we have the, the tandem of Evan Mobley and Jared Allen. And like these two super mobile bigs who can play together, who have this like, this super athletic guy at point guard and shout out to Darius Scarland, I feel like you kind of can trace this back to USC with Mobley a little bit. Like, he ran a lot of two-man stuff with his brother. And, like, just being able to play with another big in that way, they were good in the Pac-12

tournament. There was the Colorado game that they were both good, a game that Isaiah Mobley was arguably better than Evan Mobley in the tournament. They were both good. So, like, just dating back to college, like, Evan Mobley can play with another big, as long as they're mobile, as long as they're not just sitting in the paint, like, Evan Mobley can do it. He's got the handles. He's got the ability to shoot over.

over the top of anybody. He's a better passer than I thought he was going to be this season. Obviously, one of the best fourth quarter defenders, not just among rookies, but just like across the league, period. So, yeah, everything works for him. It's insane. Yeah, I mean, it's pretty unusual to see a rookie come in right away and just be so reliable. I mean, like, you can give him the ball in any particular area on the floor on offense and feel like he's got to make the right decision, whether it's as a score hitting mid-range jumpers, he's continuing to extend the range of his game, whether it's his playmaking ability to make the right decision. And on defense, just the level of versatility that he has as a player is so unusual. I mean, if you look at

the matchup data on second spectrum, like with the type of players he's defended over 20 times in a game, it's guys from Scotty Barnes more of a forward to Miles Turner, a perimeter big, to Jaron Jackson, AD. It's to guys that are smaller, Jared Vanderbilt. It's guys like Derek Jones, Jr., more perimeter-oriented players, smaller guys, bigger guys. It's such a range that he's able

to defend. And the versatility that gives you in your front court next to Jared Allen, I mean, they support and enhance each other at just such a high level, because when Alan's out there, he can be that rim and interior enforcer. Mowgli can be on the perimeter. When Mowgli's just out there

with, say, Lari-Marcanan or even Isaac O'Coro in the front court. Mowgli can be that guy in the paint. They can take on different shapes regardless of the lineup. 100%. There's a world where rookie Evan Mowgli is still better than this entire rookie class in year two, which is a pretty tall task, which is like it's insane to think just because of how good this rookie class has been.

And I don't honestly believe that it'll be true. But I don't think it's entirely out of the realm of possibility to believe just because of how effective he's been on a basketball team that is. is I don't want to say like overperforming, but there have been years recently, like post-Lebron. Last year was a great example where the season starts in the first month were like calves, and then we're like, oh, no, okay, not calves. So this year you kind of had to like take it with a grand of salt.

You were like calves, and then another month passes, and you're like, oh, yeah, calves. And Evan Mowgli's a huge reason for that. Is there a chance rookie of the year ends up as Cade Cunningham or somebody else other than Evan Mowley? Is there any chance of that? I mean, and I'm not trying to put anything out there, God forbid. The only way that that would happen is if Evan got hurt.

Like, that's it. That's literally it. So, no, I love Cade. Cade has shot up the ranks. He's easily number two. I don't think it's close. I think it's Evan won, and then Cade's right there, especially recently the way that Cade has been able to put the team on his back

and deliver in these really clutch moments. He's been incredible. Everything is advertised, if not a little bit more, this early in his career. but no, it's Evan this year for sure. Yeah, and I think for our next, you know, award we'll hand out, most obvious future All-Star. Evan Mobley, again, is probably the guy there, but besides Mobley, who would be your most obvious future All-Star?

And why is a kid cutting him? And why is his kid? Yeah, I was going to say, like, I don't mean to, like, just pretend that these are the only two rookies that exist, but, like, I mean, you know, yeah, it's definitely Cade. And I asked the question the other day, like, And I'll actually, I'll just flip this on you super quick. If you had to guess the earliest that Cade will make his first All-Star team between like years two and five, what year do you think that that would be?

I mean, probably year three, four, probably year three at the earliest. I don't see year two. Three was the consensus. I think a lot of it has to do with just the simple fact that that's when Detroit is going to be sort of around the area of like not bad but not. good, maybe a little good, but not bad. You know, so there'll be an easier case to be made for him to actually be an All-Star, where, like, it's not inconceivable

to think that Evan Mobley in year two is going to be an All-Star, assuming that the Cavs stay on the trajectory that they are. So it's definitely, Cade. One of the knocks on him coming into the draft, if there was any to be found, was probably the athleticism that he played with, or maybe lack thereof.

Some people had some questions about that. Hasn't really been that much of a concern. Maybe in, like, the first two weeks when he was handle. How about his ball handling ability, the ability to create against, like, some better defenders, has that been concerning at all? What we've seen recently, especially in these last three weeks from Cade, is whether or not it's predicated on his ability to handle the ball, the way that he, as a 20-year-old,

is able to put, like, 90% of NBA defenders in the basket is, like, unparalleled, unless your name is Evan Mobley. Like, it's insane. So I don't really question his ability to generate a shot for, um, not just himself, but for anybody around him, and that's something that I'm sure we'll talk about in just a little bit. But it's definitely Cade, and we haven't even factored in just the leadership aspect, and the shot-making ability from pretty much anywhere on the floor.

It's Cade. How have you seen Cade improve over the course of the season? Obviously, he missed the start with the injury that he had, but there was a slow if he started for him, but he's had a lot better games as of late. Yeah, it's definitely his ability to effectively hit the three ball. I think that would be the main thing that you would point at, Because it was the aforementioned two-week stretch where he was like, I think his first like 21 attempts he had hit like one or two.

Like it wasn't pretty at all. So if we're, you know, taking the obvious one out of it, I would also throw in there. There has been a very noticeable switch in the way that he approaches not just the end of the games. Because when we like, and we saw it at Oklahoma State. We saw it at in high school, AAU. When it's like crunch time in the fourth quarter, it's Kade. We know it's Cade. Give him the ball, even though sometimes this year it's inexplicably been Jeremy. Not inexplicably because Jeremy's great. But a lot of fans selfishly are like, give the ball to Cade.

What we've seen is a lot of times through the first three quarters, him do this switch of I'm hunting shots for other people. I'm trying to get the ball to this guy to, no, it's got to be me. It's got to be me who takes the shot on this possession four minutes into the second quarter instead of me trying to find Sadiq in the corner. Some of that has been because of people in health and safety protocols. He himself was in it for like a week and a half. Some of it has been because of injuries. There are a myriad of reasons, but he's definitely been a lot more aggressive with his shot as the season goes along, as evidenced by the 22-point comeback that we had over the Utah Jazz, where he had a career high 29 points.

When he goes into kill mode, it's terrifying. And I think it's also important with Cade. You mentioned him going into kill mode and having the opportunities to be the guy with the, with Detroit, like when you're comparing Cade's situation compared to Evan Mowbly in Cleveland or, you know, a number of other rookies like, you know, Scotty Barnes and Toronto, right now, the Pistons aren't, are in a position where they are thinking about targeting veterans to get to possibly 50 wins in a playoff run like Cleveland is. They're not a position where they're making a run to the potential top six seed like Toronto is right now with a lot of talent on the

roster with the pistons. They're just not close to being in that type of position as a team. And that's probably going to hurt Kate's play early on. With that said, though, I mean, there are other guys that are, you know, very clear potential All-Stars, Scarty Barnes, dealing with a knee injury right now for the Raptors. But, and I think that's hurt his play a bit. But defensively, he has shown that level of versatility that can make him an all-D guy in the future. Offensively, I had Will Lou and Blake Murphy from Sportscent on a couple weeks ago. And, I mean, we just were just like raving for 10 minutes about how Scotty barnes can be used anywhere on the court offensively. I mean, you can use him as a guy who's bringing the ball up the floor. You can use

him as a screener. You can use him on the inside and the dunker spot. You can use him spotting out from threes. He can be in any single type of situation that you want. And I think that alone, that level of versatility that gives Barnes such a high probability to be, you know, a winning player for the Raptors for many years to come. And also just one of those guys that, regardless of his role and what the team demands from him, he's one of those players that can shine at a high level and always be in that All-Star or All-NBA conversation too. Yeah, I definitely don't disagree.

I think with Scotty, it's like if I had to put a hand up and say that I was wrong about something, it's not that I definitively thought that Scotty would be bad. I just didn't think he would really be able to score in the NBA. Because at Florida State, it didn't really seem like that was his main forte, it didn't really ever seem like he was like, I want to score the basketball. But he does.

And I think he definitely, I don't know if he's like really the prototype of that like the five by five guy, you know, I don't really know that we're going to ever see that from him. But he just strikes me as a guy because of the fluidity that he plays with. And like you said, the versatility. He seems like he's good for like when he really starts to hit a stride and when he's like really Scotty Barnes in a couple years, maybe by the time his second contract hits. Doesn't it feel like he'll be good for like five or six triple doubles a year?

Yeah. Yeah, I think so for sure. So yeah, he's been great. It just obviously across the board, it's the thing. This is what sucks about the rookie class this year is like, I hate that it's such a lock for rookie of the year. Because it would be so fun to really have discourse over it. I think it's probably maybe the only award that if it ended today, there's not that much discourse over it. Like, you're like, it's mobile.

Oh, okay. It would have been nice if it was kidding. You know what I mean? But the truth is that there are so many guys, whether it's, um, Whether it's Mowbly, Cade, I don't really know if we can throw Jalen in there just because he missed as much time as he did. Also, because Stephen Silas just inexplicably will not play him in garbage time. If they're down 40s, like, I'm sorry, Jalen Green, you can't play in this basketball game. You know, you have Giddy, you have Franz Wagner even, you have Scotty Barnes.

So just across the board, like everyone is just so good and they're getting good so fast. There's so many. And for the next award, we'll hand out defensive rookie of the year. Again, it's probably Evan Mowgli. Yeah. But I guess maybe it makes more sense to build like an all-rooky defensive team, because then you'd have Scottie Barnes on there again. Then we'd be talking about guys like Io Dosunmu or Herb Jones from the Pelicans.

It's kind of remarkable that with each of those guys, Jones and Dosunmu, there's two tremendous, tremendous, like straight up defensive players, period, not just as rookie. Jones and D'Sun Mu are awesome. Yeah, I think Herb Jones is like the interesting case. He also is kind of like, and I use this comparison super loosely, it's just the principle of it where it's like one of the reasons why Utah's defense is as good as it is, is exclusively because of Rudy Gobert, like just how impactful he's been for Utah over the last few years. That's kind of what I feel like with Herb Jones, where it's like, the Pels don't have that

many good defenders. Like, Mowgli at least has to the advantage, you know, to his left is one of the best rim protectors in basketball, and he himself is also already one of the best room protectors of basketball. Like, Herb Jones is Herb Jones. That's what he's got. You know what I mean? So if there's any, like, praise to be found in the Pelicans defense, I feel like it's always consistently going to be him. And the other thing that you see is he's always keeping guys in front of him. And my favorite thing is, you know, you'll see this like five or six times a game.

Someone will make a pass to whoever Herb Jones is guarding. And they'll immediately just pass out of it because they're like, Like, I'm not going anywhere. Like, I can't put my body into this guy. There's nothing that I can do. He's so shifty. His hips are super quick. He's great.

And if I had to say, like, and I'm not saying anything. I'm just saying, like, if you wanted to make the argument that he's a more impactful defender, no, I don't like this take. We'll move on. Herb Jones is really good. He's the second best rookie defender in this class. What was your take, big? I was going to say, I think there's like a slightly compelling argument to be made that Herb Jones is more impactful defender. than Evan Mobley, but it just doesn't feel right coming out.

So I'm not going to stick myself to it, but if other people like it, they can like it. It's wrong, though. Well, I mean, I think when you, it's different types of defenders that you're comparing. Mobley, like I described some of the guys that he defends on a regular basis earlier. Like a lot of bigs, a lot of, you know, the Miles Bridges types. Herb Jones is defending typically the best player on the opponent, night in, night out. It's sort of like comparing Rudy Goberta Ben Simmons for defensive player of the year. You can try to do that, but you're really arguing about apples and oranges with the types of

defensive players there are in the responsibilities. And with that said, though, there are advanced stats that do back up. That type of impact that Herb Jones makes B-Ball index. Does a great job using NBA advanced stats tracking data to kind of put a number to the types of situations defenders find themselves in. And Herb Jones is number one in the NBA and their stat, defensive. impact, which factors in, how are players performing, how players are shooting against those defenders, and then would match up difficulty again. Herb Jones is in the 99th percentile in terms of the

quality of opponents that he's defending. And like you can see him battling against Biggs on switches. You can see him against go-to scores on the perimeter that are smaller like guards, bigger like wings. And for him to be doing that as a rookie, the Pelicans are in a situation right now where obviously no Zion and there's missing pieces there, guys still need to get better, but I feel like they do have a lot to work with even aside from Zion, with Ingram performing at the level that he is and having a defender like Herb Jones, that can change everything for you in a postseason series sometime down the line.

Is Brandon Ingram an All-Star? This season or in the future. This season. Again, I mean, he's probably in the borderline, right? But I think Ingram was playing the best basketball of his life, the last couple weeks he's certainly trending up and defensively i think again you have to give him credit for putting in way more effort than he did last season it was honestly literally i've said this a hundred times on podcast but like i'm the i'm the dude i'm one of the dudes who had ingram ahead of simmons in the drafts i was one of the people saying that the lakers should consider not trading

bernan ingram for a star because like he could be really good but i was also one of the people that didn't have Ingram in their top three for their most improved player either. And like, I think, I think with Ingram, like, I got a lot of criticism from Pelicans fans for that and understandably so because of what he turned into offensively with that. But he got worse on defense when he went to New Orleans. He got worse on defense, period. Like, he was good the last two years of the Lakers, especially that year with LeBron. And like, I think with him, this season, the leap that he's taken with more offensive

responsibility and still being better defensively than he's in the last two years. That to me is like, that's, that is more impressive than what he did from Lakers to Pelicans. I know that might sound silly, but like, I'm very impressed. I think like with him, it's the same conversation that you have about Joyce Randall. It's the same conversation that you have about Lonzo. Like, it's the whole, did they need to leave L.A. to become what they actually ended up becoming. In the case of Ingram, it's like the last month that he was a Laker, he kind of started to show us who he actually was. And the Brandon Ingram of today, like, we finally kind of saw at the tail end

of the Lakers stint. I do remember, though, just an argument that I was making with myself for like two days before I decided to make a YouTube video about it. And this was like two years ago. It's archived. You can't even watch it anymore. I can, but nobody else can. I made a video where I was like, who's closer to an MVP, Jason Tatum or Brandon Ingram? And I talked myself through it for like 15 minutes before the last 30 seconds, I was like, oh, I forgot Brandon Ingram doesn't play defense and Jason Tatum does. It's Jason Tatum and the video ended. But now it's something to revisit. I mean, we didn't see Tatum play some great defense down the stretch against Demar de Rosen on Saturday against the Bulls, which is what you want to see. I think that to me is the mark of a true

elite star, somebody who impacts the game on offense and defense. I owe Dosunmu, to me, he's probably the guy that I would choose for this next. one, biggest draft night steal is the 38th pick, the Chicago Bulls, a team that now has NBA finals aspirations and a legitimate shot to win the NBA finals. They have a rookie in Ayodosunmu, who is the 38th pick in the draft, and he's come in right away and been one of the better point of attack defenders in the league, especially as a young player, not just as a rookie, but as a young player. And offensively, he does his job. He, he hits. spot-up threes. He's hitting over 40% of his

threes. He's a smart decision-maker of moving the ball within the flow of the offense. He's a good cutter. And when you give him opportunities to handle the ball, he can do that in a pinch for you. I mean, he's had some high-scoring game. So with Dosun-Mu, he's, for him to fall

on a 38-pick, three picks after Herb Jones, for I-O-Dosumu to fall 38 and make the impact he is, he's the biggest deal of the draft to me right now. The other thing that I really like about him is I love dudes who don't look that strong, but are incredibly strong. Like, he gives dudes the Heisman pose like every other night when he's going to the basket,

if he's in transition, if he's grabbing a rebound. He loves his off arm. And it's incredible. He's just such a strong body. And you wouldn't totally know it by looking at him. But being the integral piece that he's been on a team, like he said, that does have championship aspirations, being a second round pick in year one. And we haven't even mentioned that he's the hometown kid, right?

So there's this additional invisible element of like, oh, man, that's really cool. So, yeah, I can't really argue that the Bulls got probably the best value, not just in the second round, but in the entire draft. Who are some other guys that could qualify as the biggest draft night steel? Cam Thomas at 27. There's an argument to be made there. Jeremiah Robinson Earl, been decent for the Thunder. I don't think that's a bad one. I was convinced that Jared Butler was going to be the best pick of the draft.

And then I was like, but it's Utah, so that's going to be tough for him. So yeah, just looking down the list, I think Io is definitely definitely, I mean, Luca Garz has gotten some minutes for us, but, you know, no. So, yeah, we'll just go to Iowa. How about the biggest draft night mistake? The Josh Primo pick was stupid on draft night, and it's stupid today. And when you had Duarte and Moses Moody and Shengoon and even Cam Thomas go 14 picks after that, it was always dumb. And I know Josh Primo has actually been halfway deep. for the Spurs in the last week and a half since he's been starting games for them.

Pretty sure he was the youngest player to ever start a game for the Spurs, I think. And it's like when it works, it's cool. He's kind of flashy score. It's fun. But you have to look past the eight to 12 shots that he missed in that game. Like he'll just go like four of 11. And like it's not fun for me. Like the experience is fun.

Like I love Colin Sexton. I'm one of the biggest Concexton guys in the world. But to me, Josh Primo just feels like the quintessential embodiment of what diet Colin Sexton would be like as a score. Damn. And it's not fun to me. If I'm Greg Popovich and, like, I wanted Josh Primo, I could have traded down for him. You know what I mean? So I just, I don't pass.

I still don't like it. Well, so with Primo, it's really interesting because a lot of people around the NBA were surprised that Primo went 12th to San Francisco. Antonio. And the way it was explained to me on draft night is there was like a threat of either maybe the Wizards or Thunder or Grizzly. Grizzlies at the 17 spot. Obviously the trade it out of that pick, the Pelicans got that. But I think that range 15, 16, 17, some of those teams were threats to take Primo. So had the spurs traded down, they might not have gotten the guy that they perceived as right or wrong, that they perceived as a lottery pick next season. Like you're getting the guy one year too early.

That's what San Antonio's take was. And I criticize that pick on draft night. He has not performed well in limited NBA chances thus far. But some of the G-League flashes and Summer League and some of the little things that he does, it makes sense. But some guys are just G-League players. That's it. Like sometimes, and I'm not saying that that's it. But it's like, you know, like I loved K. Feldar.

I thought K. Feldar was great, especially because, you know, I was a big K. I loved K. And you know where he was really good. was the G-League. That was it. Kayfelder. I've ever heard Kay Felder's name in quite a while now. You like that cut? Would you pull that one from? Well, because he's an Oakland guy. I'm from Michigan.

So he played in my backyard, so that one was easy for me. To add on to the Primo being the biggest draft of stake. I think the only other one that people are even arguing about right now would be Cominga over Franz Wagner. But in the case of Cominga, it is still so early and way too early to judge his value to Goll and State with what he either becomes there or what he could potentially be in the event of a trade this season or down the line. Like the coming up, Wagner right now for Orlando is just the obvious better player

at the moment. The thing with Wagner, I mean, we see him right now for Orlando. He does a little bit of everything. He defends, again, versatile defender offensively. He's shooting the ball increasingly better from three every single year going back to Michigan. And he's shooting the ball better than ever right now. He's doing a lot off the dribble for a hit for them. I wonder, it's similar to what I said earlier about Scotty Barnes. With Wagner, I feel like there's a chance that he's one of those guys that can do just everything for you.

It'll be interesting to see how that plays out over the course of time. And I think overall, with 2021, I mean, you had your passionate thing about Primo with the spurs, whether it's commingo over Wagner. I mean, like, other than that, it's got. like Austin Reeves going undrafted. It's Aaron Wiggins going 55th. It's not a lot of obvious, you know, Clears Daymas. Maybe Book Knight could be another one. But there's not, there's not a lot of them unlike 2020. I mean, 2020, James Wiseman over Lamello, Bain at 30. And who's the big one in the lottery besides Wiseman? It's our guy.

I mean, it's our guy, unfortunately. It's Killian Hayes. It's Killian Hayes. I get what you're doing. I get what you're doing. It's Killian Hayes. Detroit, on draft night, there was the talk about maybe it would be Halliburton. It was Killian Hayes. That was the other one. How are you feeling about Kill, Nick? How are you feeling?

I'm not feeling great right now. So I know we're going to get to this in a minute, so I'm just going to speed past it. On draft night, the worry was the few days leading up that there was some sort of a smokescreen that the Pistons were going to take Patrick Williams at 7. And we were like, no, no, no, no, no. Like, Killing Hayes is going to be there. He's going to be there, just draft Killing Hayes. So when they ended up getting Patrick Williams, it was like this big like, oh my God,

Killing Hayes is going to be on my basketball team. So obviously year one's tough. He has the hip injury, seven games into his career, sidelines him for three, four months, comes back, plays 20 games, two dozen games, whatever it was. Looks a little bit better. There's still some tentativeness. He's still taking a lot of sidesteps and stepbacks, and you're kind of like, okay, those aren't really that.

They're fun if they go in, but they don't really go in. They don't really go in that much. No, they don't. They do not. You come into year two, and you're like, okay, the idea of him and Cade coexisting, sharing the ball, it worked in Summer League, it was fun in Summer League, we loved it, especially on defense. But him specifically this season, I think we really started to see him become a little bit more aggressive. And some nights, it's more than others, where he'll take that, you know, that middy pull up on the elbow or along.

the baseline that he wouldn't have taken a year ago. He'll hunt his shots a little bit more. It's really strange to see somebody like Killian who is as decisive as he is with his passing and as indecisive as he is with his scoring. I don't know which bleeds into which more, but there's such a tentativeness that he plays with. Defensively, I got no questions.

I'm not worried about that at all. That end of the floor, he's good. Him and Cade love doubling together. He's a pest. jumps passing lanes like nobody's business kills great on defense love it no complaints there it's really just the scoring aspect

and you have those like baseline runners will he'll just throw it up with his with his off hand or sorry not with his off hand because I wish he was able to I mean you remember it coming into the draft people like he can't finish with his right it's like he can

still doesn't but he doesn't he just won't do it like he will make the shot like angle more difficult by using his left hand. And that's what's so frustrating. And even though he is cutting out a lot of the aforementioned sidesteps and stepbacks, it's like sometimes they're still there.

You know, he's actually a really, really strong shooter from the corner this year off the catch in the way that I'm not worried about Cade creating a shot for himself or others. I'm worried about kill creating a shot for himself. I'm not worried about him doing it for others. Can Cade Cunningham and Killian Hayes coexists? I was very alone.

when like two weeks ago this came back up because I really believed that we had kind of arrived on like the conclusion that they can. It's just a matter of it will Killian Hayes shoot the ball, which is a really difficult thing to watch when it's on your basketball team. And it's your favorite player on your basketball team. Again, not to go back to the well, but defensively, yes, yes, I totally believe that they can. Because of the frames that they play with, I automatically have a soft spot in my heart for, guard that's over six five, both of them are. So no questions there. What gets frustrating is on offense when both of their unselfishness will lead to an unproductive possession. And that kind of goes back to what I was talking about with Cade earlier, where sometimes he'll be like, if nobody

else is going to do it, I'm going to do it. We've really started to see that. And I said that he goes into kill mode. I'm still waiting for kill to go into kill mode. Like we just don't really see that from him because it doesn't really seem like it's something that he's comfortable doing, which is fine because if he's one of those point guards that it's like he doesn't need to impact the game by scoring, it's like on this team, he kind of does, though, is the thing. And, you know, when he's bricking, is like, we don't, I don't really want to sugarcoat it anymore. Like, he's bricking everything. And, you know, you'll look at the box score and you'll see, okay, my starting point guard had,

you know, five, seven, and eight. It's like, okay, well, that's pretty good. Again, he was able to fill the stat sheet, impact the game in ways that supersede scoring. And then you see that he kind of tried and he shot 12 times, but only like two of them went in. Like, it's really discouraging for him sometimes. And you kind of wonder where it's going to go with him. I don't think it's outside of the realm of possibility that in a year, Killing Hayes isn't on my basketball team anymore. But we'll see.

I think, I feel like, for somebody who believes that they certainly can play together, I feel like all I've done is explain that maybe they shouldn't be together anymore. But I think, I think if anything, it should just be a first and second unit thing. Well, I mean, I think with Killian Hayes, it's important to remember that he's still only 20 years old right now. Yes, who has only played 50 games. Yes, only 50 games. And with him, I think the injuries, some of the inconsistencies with the role on the team, like it's possible that it just hasn't. translated yet. He does have some foundational skills. He has good touch from the free throw line. He's 80 plus percent from the line for, you know, five plus years in a row now. He has the defensive ability.

He has the playmaking sense. It's just about developing the handle and figuring out ways to score. And will that ever happen? It might not. It didn't happen for Frank Milakina. Frank Nilakina, similar type of thing where he comes in another French point guard with the Knicks. he's got the defense he's got the passing and he occasionally showed the ability to hit spot-up threes but the creation and the overall scoring from multiple areas of the floor just hasn't developed at all and now he's kind of a defensive specialist for Dallas with killion hayes maybe that's his destiny and that would be disappointing for the seventh pick in the draft a guy that i loves in 2020 it's possible that's what he's going to be but i still think there's a chance there's something

still in there that could develop on the offensive end of the floor. And I hope we see it. I hope he at least becomes like a, at least more than 30% from three, at least more than higher than 40% from two point range. Wouldn't that be nice, Nick? That'd be a nice start. I wouldn't hate it. I wouldn't hate it.

I remember when you guys did your live draft reactions and... Steal the draft, baby. I remember I was driving from... From Chicago back to Michigan, and I was like, Kevin O'Connor's a good guy. That's a good guy. Then you fast forward. Then you fast forward because that was in, what? That was in November of 2020 or 2000.

Yeah, 2020. And then we fast forward to this last July. I was listening to the same show. And Bill hated, not hated the fact that we got Cade, but I remember what he said to you was, oh no, what about your guy? And you had to spend the next few minutes defending like, no, no, no, this is. I remember getting so frustrated. I remember I was in Chicago.

I was walking down the street. I remember where I was going. But I remember almost like yelling at my AirPods, being like, no, this is actually really good for him. Like, this is going to be really good because it's going to take the responsibilities of handling the ball all the time off of him. And I think that there are times that it shows that having a little bit less responsibility and playing off ball a little bit more. We saw it at the end of last year. We would just like incessantly run Spain pick and rolls with Killian Hayes and he'd be the dude cutting up the top of the floor. And it was working.

And like he was hitting some shit off the catch. Like, it would work. It's just, it's a mental game with him, man. Like, that's really all that it feels like. You have your jumpy guy, the lob threatened Diallo, a three and these type of guy in Bay, Energy Big, and Isaiah Stewart. You need Killian Hayes to figure out how to score. But there's some pieces next decade that are making some sense.

With Sadiq Bay, I mean, he's averaging over 20 points, seven rebounds, three assists, 38% from three over the last month with Jeremy Grant. out. Sadiq Bay got off to a really bad start to the season, but as of late, he's looked like a guy that's going to, that would be a keeper for Detroit. Yeah, it's one of those things where he's, even though he was only a rookie last year, like he did make first team all rookie, broke the Pistons franchise record for most three's made in a season by a rookie.

He broke, I think, like literally 15 franchise slash NBA records last season, just from a three-point perspective alone. So he was obviously incredible. And when he started this season in the slump that he was in where just nothing was falling for him. You know, every shot that he took, you still felt like this is where it's going to start to turn. You know, and those first few weeks were tough, but it's like we never really wavered on him in terms of our confidence. Maybe some people did, but you always knew that he was going to turn it around. Did we know that that was going to be as soon as he started wearing a headband?

Headband Deak? No, we did not know that. But ever since then, we saw it a little bit in Summer League, you know, feeling a lot more comfortable with the responsibility. of having the ball in his hands and having to be more decisive with all of these injuries and all these guys out. So right now it's like a year ago,

365 days ago, a lot of the damage that he was doing was off the catch or maybe off of one or two dribbles, maybe it was off of a cut. But this year, even though it is largely still those things, you don't hate the idea

of Sadiq Bay creating his own shot and letting him go out there and dribble six or seven seconds out of the clock or something like that. defensively, another guy who's just awesome. Like I think his defenses like Patrick Williams asked, like same draft, like they're both really, really good. I think Sadiq Bay is certainly, I know that we've come to the conclusion,

especially over these last few seasons, that these young cores that we grow to love are made to be destroyed. They're made to go get that big fish, to go get the Anthony Davis. Like that's the formula, especially when you're a small team. like Detroit. So I think out of everyone that we have, he seems like the guy who you kind of got to keep. You don't have a choice.

You got to keep Sadiq Bay. Because even though there are three and D guys in every single draft and free agency every single year, Sadiq Bay is like the quintessential embodiment of a guy that you need to win a championship. Does he make Jeremy Grant more expendable? This one's tough because I don't have an answer for it.

I don't really believe either is wrong, but I don't believe either is correct. I just mean if you are, you one way or another, I'm going to agree with you. I'll shake my head and be like, I understand the perspective. It's something that, like, my barometer for it is, like, I'm super lukewarm on it because I think compelling arguments could be made either way. I think this season especially, we've seen Jeremy play a lot of ISO ball, and he'll, I say,

you know, every few, every, you know, a couple times a quarter, maybe you're okay with Sadiq dribbling a couple seconds out of the clock. It's like, but that just feels like the constant with Jeremy, and it's not a slight towards him because I love him and he's definitively our best player. Well, I don't know. Is he our best player anymore? But, you know, he took a chance on us. He picked us. I hope we do right by him, which I know we'll get to in just a minute. But I think it's easier for fans to enjoy Sadiq Bay more because they're not paying him $20 million a year. And he's still just... He's not ball stopping either. Right. I mean, he's he's complimenting Cade. He's not getting in the way of his development.

Yeah, and that's it, and that's really it. So I'm in on both of them. If we don't trade Jeremy, that's fine. Him and Sadiq can still be, they can coexist. It's fine. But I'm cool with it. I think it's a definitive, yes, that Sadiq Bay makes Jeremy Grant more expendable, but it's not just Bay. It's just the collection of all the young players.

It's the fact that now you also have Kate Cunningham. You also have him. You also have Bay who deserves those opportunities a couple of times a quarter to create and get those reps. And I think the other side of it is, and we'll see how the trademarker develops over the next couple of weeks before February 10th. But I look at it like,

if you're another team, and we've seen a lot of teams that have been mentioned as having interest in Grant, it's been, we've seen hawks, nicks, grizzlies, bowls, blazers, pacer, Lakers, wizards. It's been a lot of different teams that have been mentioned for Jeremy Grant.

And I think that's because we've seen with Jeremy Grant, what he can do when he's the, man, and he's very good. Like 20 point per game guy, the last season and this season with Detroit. He's versatile with his size. In Denver, we saw what he could do with a role, like half the size on offensive offense. He was elite on defense with good spot-up shooting and attacking off the catch.

And I think with Grant, the reason why we're seeing so many teams have interest in him is because they can put him in his ideal role, which is somewhere in the middle of what he's doing in Detroit versus what he did in Denver, somewhere in the middle of that. If Grant is like your fourth best player, he's one of the best, fourth best players that you can have because of his defense, because of his versatility. And his shot making too, in those advantageous matchups, which can bring a ton of value for your team. But what do you think about that with what Grant could bring to a team that actually has playoff hopes or even championship hopes? I think in an ideal world, if you are Jeremy Grant, you don't want to be the fifth or sixth best player, depending on the moment, depending on who's healthy, who's not healthy. like he was in Denver.

Like, you do want to be that tertiary guy, but you want to be a little bit higher in the food chain. So you said fourth, I was going to say third. Like, you want to be like the third or fourth best player on that team? 100%. Now the question becomes,

okay, well, if he goes to Chicago, he's not the third best player. Maybe, well, I don't know. If you went to fourth,

like, are you putting, is that a dumb question? Like, I would take Lonzo over Jeremy Grant, right? And you're taking DeMar, and you're taking Levin.

Are you putting Vooch over Jeremy Grant? You know what I mean? Like, so the Chicago, fit on paper makes sense, but the pecking order might get a little bit weird, is all that I mean. Yeah, I mean, the pecking order could get weird there, and that's where sacrifice is going to have to come into. And that's anytime you're bringing up Jeremy Grant, there's somebody who understandably, so says, well, is he going to accept playing a lesser role? And I mean,

I don't see how, let's just say theoretically, the Bulls did get Jeremy Grant. They trade Patrick Williams and salary fill, and they get Jeremy Grant back, and they're like, we want you to be our four. We want you to defend the best player. that we want you to do this. We want you to be a guy who attacks when the matchup is in your favor. Why would he not do that? Why would he not?

Like, that's a championship team if the bowls get Jeremy Grant. They check all the boxes if they get Jeremy Grant. He's not going to go somewhere that he doesn't want to be. If there, even though he doesn't have a no trade clause written into his contract, there is a mutual respect between him and Troy Weaver. And we've seen this in the way that Troy does business

with teams and his own players and coaches, whatever it is, where he's going to do right by them, for the most part. And with Jeremy especially, because they have a pre-existing relationship that dates back to not just Oklahoma City, not just Syracuse, but AAU. So they've known each other for 15 years. Long, long time. That's why he came here in the first place. We offered him the same money as Denver, and he chose us because he wanted to bet on himself.

And he appreciated what Troy is as a person and what he was trying to. to do with the Pistons. And he wanted to be the spark that ignites that fire. So I would say, if you're a Pistons fan, you're like, oh, I don't want to trade Jeremy because it sets a bad precedent for free agents in the future who, hey, if you come here and play really good, we're just going to flip you. There is a mutual respect between them that Jeremy will not be traded somewhere that he does not agree to go. So if you end up with Jeremy Graham on your basketball team, congratulations. He's in. He's bought in and he wants to be there. With that in mind, then, You know, factoring in what a team can offer for Grant and also the fact that, you know,

theoretically he would accept being there and be happy to go there, which team do you think is the best match for a deal for Jeremy Grant? There are a million. I mean, I think the ones that are weird to me are like the wizards and the Pacers and even the Blazers one, even though, listen, I want Norman Powell and Ben McLemore. I want it real bad, but it just doesn't make sense for Jeremy. It doesn't seem like something he would green light. So you're with Damien Lillard out for possibly the rest of the season.

Exactly. Yeah, it doesn't. It doesn't make sense. I would then shift my focus to obviously the Bulls, the package there that people, Pistons fans and Bulls fans alike have both thrown out, has been like some combination of like Patrick Williams. But that's the conversation of, are you giving? I saw you actually asked Kenny Beach him this the other day. Are you giving up Patrick Williams for Jeremy Grant? And it's a polarizing question.

And in that, it's tough. It's really tough. You're obviously trading for a guy who you're not getting for the rest of the year. You're not going to see him until next season. And so that's why I was saying earlier, the whole smokescreen thing, it would be really funny if we ended up with him anyways. Do you get Derek Jones Jr. who's out for what, four to six and then what Matt Thomas, whatever filler is in there?

Or do you go to Atlanta? Because I like that fit a lot too. Now, the Cam Reddish thing is now off the table. We heard that the Pistons were interested in that. Are you looking at Dianzre Hunter? Are you looking at John Collins? Are you looking at Oneeaco Ocongahu, a guy that the Pistons were looking at in the draft

to begin with during the Killian Hayes draft? So I don't think they're a bad partner either. I think the Kevin Herder one, I'm pretty sure his extension kicks in next year and him and Jeremy make the exact same money. So it's like, is there something there? That would be kind of weird and kind of clunky because we already have some wings that can kind of shoot.

So I don't know, maybe. You look at the Knicks and it's like, I like it. And I think that Leon Rose, I like Jeremy's fit in New York, I should say. And I think that Leon Rose is going to continue to be aggressive in the trade market. Cam Reddish is not his last move. If he can trick.

The Knicks will be aggressive for sure. There you go. Hawks too. I think if you're the pistons, it's similar to what it might be for the conversation with the Philadelphia 786ers and Ben Simmons. It's what team is going to get desperate and make a stronger offer than they're willing to right now? February 10th, trade deadline day, which team? team is going to say, we have to get into the playoffs. Atlanta, New York, teams like that, Washington,

even possibly Portland, if they were to lean in that direction. I mean, like, it's which of these teams is going to say, we got to get in. We got to get in. So, like, we always talk about the same teams, though, right? Like, we always talk about New York. We talk about Atlanta. We talk about Chicago in regards to Jeremy Grant.

And sometimes people bring up the Lakers, which, no. Lakers don't have enough. It's not even close. The Lakers, the Lakers don't have anything to offer. They just don't. And I think it's too bad for the Lakers because everybody, the reason why everybody talks about, like, what are they going to do with Russell Westbrook,

which there's also not many things you can do with Russell Westbrook. But like it's because there's not much else that you can do, period. There's like Austin Reeves and Talen Horton Tucker that are younger guys with any value. People always throw in like Kendrick Nunn in there too. Kendrick Men does not have much trade value. He's more valuable to the Lakers with what he could provide with his smart buck scoring. Like, legitimately,

Kendrick Nunn could be an important player for the Lakers, and there is a legitimate chance that you will see none finish a game over Westbrook. There's a chance that could happen. 100%. If you'll indulge me,

why don't I throw a team into the mix with reasoning that I think is pretty decent that I haven't seen anything about. Yeah, who's this? What if I told you that there's a point card who's going into unrestricted free agency?

He's been really, really effective for this team this season. his name is Jalen Brunson. Oh, interesting. And if I told you, I'm Dallas, and I'm going into this trade deadline thinking, we either have to move him because we're not going to be able to pay him, or we're just straight up not going to him,

or we hang on to him because we're going to pay him. Do I think that, like, Dwight Powell and Jalen Brunson and stuff, whatever it is, or, I don't know, did they throw on Tim Hardaway? Probably not. Dwight Powell, Jalen Brunson, and stuff. for Jeremy Grant, then gives Detroit Jalen Brunson's bird rights so they can pay him more than anybody else. And that's a guy that we know that we know now is high on the Pistons list this offseason. Ooh. You have Arn Tellum. Oh, Arn Tellum's from Philly. Jalen's from Philly.

Sadee Bay went to Nova. Jalen went to Nova. So what I'm telling you is if I'm thinking I want first dibs, I want to get ahead of this, I want to be ahead of the curve. Do I help Dallas out, a team that's not in my conference, for a return for a player that I know can benefit me long term, and I can pay this summer with the money that I do have. Go get Mitchell Robinson this summer, too. You get what I'm saying? You get where I'm going with this? I think there's a conversation to be had that Dallas makes sense. Also, if you get Dwight Powell on the deal, there's another big for you. And you're pretty close with salary with Powell and Brunson for Jeremy Grant. There's one more guy that Dallas would have to give up in the deal.

Tyrol Terry. I don't know. Tyrol Terry. I really wish things worked out for him in Dallas too. I think Dallas, Dallas makes a lot of sense also because they're a team that's going to be active. I've heard their team, their name a lot when it comes to some of the names that have been out there. I know I think it was Mark Stein and his substack. had John Collins from Atlanta as a target for Dallas.

I've heard that as well. So, I mean, Collins and Grant are different types of players. But I think for Dallas and the role that they would envision for those guys, they could be complementary, whether it's going for both of them or just for one of them. Dallas is going to be a team that's active. I think a team that we haven't heard that much about is the Miami Heat. But I'm intrigued about them as a team that could. go for Jeremy Green. I have not heard them

connected at all, but just thinking about it, you know, logically, Max Struce, his emergence as a sharpshooter for them. That's a hooper. I mean, that guy can play. And he could make Duncan Robinson, who's making a hell of a lot more money expendable in a deal. Duncan Robinson might be

27 years old, but with his shooting ability, I think from a developmental standpoint, a fit standpoint, next to Cade, that's one of the types of veteran guys that you would want next to a Cade Cunningham. And then from Miami, if you theoretically were to get at Jeremy Grant, you add another gritty wing defender with PJ Tucker. It moves Tucker to the bench.

You get Grant in that starting lineup with Bam out of bio. I think whether in Chicago or Miami or some of these teams that are going to be in the mix in the playoffs, to me, Jeremy Grant is such an obvious guy to go for. He can fit on so many different teams. And with Miami, I mean, they've been really. really, really good as of late. I think teams like this need to capitalize on an opportunity to potentially win the finals. How open do you see the finals race being in the east right now or in the West for that matter?

Not very. Not very open. Interesting. Not very open. I sold myself in August. I was like Milwaukee's running it back. Can we just hit Sim season? And the, yeah.

Really? So you're all in on Milwaukee as well. Because if the big three's not playing, they don't lose games unless it's to Detroit, which did happen earlier this month. I just want to remind everybody that that is a real thing that happened. The big three played and the Pistons beat them for the first time since 2017, 16 consecutive losses. That's because the Pistons are winning the championship. There you go.

We all know that. It's, of course, it's open. I think we are in a point right now where the parody, just going over the last like 10 years, is this the most parody that we've had in basketball? In how long? When was the last time that you were like, I don't know who it's going to be? Because I think I know who it's going to be, but you don't know. You know what I mean?

Who do you think it's going to be in the east and west? I think it's going to be Milwaukee Golden State. Okay. And so how many teams have a chance of knocking them off right now in the east and how much in the West? Chicago? Yes. Brooklyn? Brooklyn, yes.

Miami need a move? No? Do they need to move? Does Jeremy Grant make them a team that can have enough guys to slow down Janus? Jeremy Grant, Jimmy Butler, Kyle Lowry, Sixth Man of the Year, Tyler Hero, scares me a little bit. That would scare me. PJ Tucker. B.J. Tucker, of course.

Bam. I mean, that's a lot of guys. Of course. That's a lot of guys you can throw at Janus. You can build a effing wall, as Stan Van Gundy would say, with those guys. Yeah, I don't think that's, shoot, that would be scary. Yeah. Make the Jeremy Grant trade, Miami because you'll go to the finals.

Yeah, no. I feel like Jeremy Grant, like it changes things. Chicago, all they're really missing, you know, from a roster standpoint for the postseason. and they got their go-to scores. They got their DeRos and they got their Levine. They got their glue guys who can defend multiple positions who play hard and Lonzo and Caruso. They got their big who accepts his role in Vouch.

They have so many pieces on that team. They have upside guys like Dosunu and Kobe White even has been much better. They just don't have Patrick Williams or what Patrick Williams could be. And Jeremy Grant just fills that gap for them in such a big way. I don't know, man. I think Milwaukee's,

the favorite in the east, but there are a number of teams that could knock them off in the postings. I can see it. Yeah, I mean, if anything, maybe I was being a little hyperbolic, sure, because the more that I think about it, I'm like, well, what about this team? Well, I guess maybe this team. I guess maybe this team. So, yeah, I still think it'll be Milwaukee. I think that the, you know, Bill's theory of like winning a championship unlocks a certain thing, or even playing in the finals will unlock a certain thing for a lot of different players throughout NBA history. You go to one and it totally changes the trajectory of your career. I think we're seeing that with Janus.

I think, you know, you look at the MVP race, and it's like, this might be the best iteration of KD we've ever seen. This might be the best iteration of Yokish that we've ever seen. I think it actually is. And I think that this is definitively the best iteration of Janus that we've ever seen. And what's crazy is like he didn't have that much time off, and we see how much not that much time off is affecting Chris Middleton. Now, granted, he also played in the Olympics.

So that kind of messed him up a little bit too. But, I mean, even with Drew Holiday, who also played in the Olympics is like borderline All-Star. So I guess, you know, but Grayson Allen's been great. Like Bobby Portis coming back. Brooke Lopez, whenever he eventually comes back, it's hard for me to shake the belief of Milwaukee, especially Janice winning MVP.

And how about in the West? I mean, we had Rudy Gobert last week saying how the jazz aren't contenders right now and how they need to be better defensively. I would agree with that. Utah, Rudy Go Bears are only great defender. They need to get him help on that end of the floor. It's nobody else in the perimeter can get stops. It's too much on Rudy Gobert.

I would not put them in the contender category for that reason. The Grizzlies, they're interesting. I mean, they're not a contender. But they beat a lot of good teams. They beat all of the good teams, all of them. Memphis is definitely trending up, but I think they're closer than people might give them credit for since they're new and they're a fresh team. But when is the time for Memphis to strike?

Is it now? I mean, is it really a Jeremy Grant? Or is it time to be patient? And let this thing be fun, but not push it too much too fast. It's like a relationship. You're starting to date somebody. You go on a first date, a second date. Sometimes you get to slow things down and build a foundation first, a friendship.

And with Memphis, I wonder if they're in a position now where you don't want to rush things and go too fast. It almost sounds like we're talking about Memphis as if they're Bruno Koboklo, where they're two years away from being two years away. You know what I mean? I think with Memphis, in the entire NBA, there are two teams, capital T teams. You look at Phoenix and you look at Memphis. Because with Memphis right now, Jha has the injury and he's out for however long it was. And they don't lose a game and they're playing the best basketball. They've played all season.

And people are like, are they grisly better without John Moran? It's like, no, they're not. Is that your Chris Vernon impression? Did Verna say that? And then you like, and then, okay, so a week or two ago, the Dylan Brooks injury happens. And it's like, okay, is this the tailspin? And then they rattle off what 11 in a row.

Well, it was in the middle of the windstreet that had happened. And they finally lose to the maps because of Lucas triple double. But there's still like the best team in basketball. So it's like, do you do anything? Because I thought originally when the Dylan Brooks thing happened, I was like, this gives Detroit a lot of leverage in the Jeremy Grant trade. Like, give me De Anthony Melton and Zaire Williams and whatever else. I'm here.

Like, let's do it. That's going to be my favorite Pistons trade of all time if that happens. I love Zaire Williams. I'm in. give me slow-mo for all I care. I'll take Kyle Anderson. They got some stuff that I want, right? I don't think they need to, though,

because they are like, them in Phoenix, are the quintessential embodiment of Next Man Up. And I think just let it ride. If something emerges this off-season, let's see how you fare in the playoffs, because they're not going to go to the finals. Of course, they're not going to win. But I think you kind of let it ride,

see what your Achilles' heel ends up being this season. instead of trying to get ahead of it, you know, preemptively and end up messing something up. So I'd wait, but surely there's a move to be made somewhere. I don't know, Kevin, you're a Celtics fan,

right? I grew up a Celtics fan. It's changed over the years. I, you know, I see my Facebook memories, you know, my Facebook memories from like 10 years ago

when I, like, type and go Celtics in all capital letters or FlaGron in all capital letters. I see all my Facebook memories and it's, like, it just changes. My fandom is not, it doesn't exist anymore, which is sad because I miss that. You know, sometimes I think about if I ever have a kid, like if I'm fortunate enough to be a father

someday, maybe then my kid will like basketball and then I'll root for the fan. I'll be a fan of the team that they root for. That would be nice to have that sometime of my life again because I miss being a fan. Do you think you would let them pick or would you be like, hey, I would let them pick for sure. I'd let them pick. No, 100%. If they chose to become a Lakers or Clippers fan, I'd be happy.

You know, if we lived in LA, that would be really sweet. Where I was going with that, though, is just very simple. You are a fan of a team. Do you want to trade for Ben Simmons knowing the repercussions of that? I mean, like, if you're a Celtics fan, do you want Ben Simmons? Sure. Yeah. No, I don't think so. Not for Jaylon Brown. I don't. I don't. I do not think so. I feel like the Tatum Brown stuff has been kind of blown up a little bit too much with how, I mean, look, there might come a moment where you do have

to split those guys up. Like, there might come a moment in 2023 or 2024 where that happens. It can't, like, but to 20, 22, this calendar year, hell no, I would not trade. I would split those guys up? And nor would I do it for Ben Simmons. I don't think that necessarily makes you better than what Tatum and Brown can be together with. You mentioned Jaylon Brunson earlier, a guy like that.

A good game managing point guard will make the world a difference for those guys. I think it comes down to, like, your. any fan or you're a general manager, executive, it doesn't matter. You're like, do I want to give up my best or second best player for Ben Simmons? Does that make us better? For a lot of teams, the answer is going to be no. But I think if you look at a team like San Antonio who has one of the more interesting asset piles in the league, I think that there is a compelling argument to be made for that. Dejante Murray, Derek White, Kelden Johnson, I mean, the list goes on. They have a lot of good young players. They really do.

Lonnie Walker's another guy that's going to be. I believe he'll be restricted, though. But yeah, he'll be in free agency this year. I'm imagining he'll probably be back. But, yeah, we'll see. How are you enjoying living in L.A.? What's life like in L.A.? How old are you? I am 23. I turned 24 in June. 23. What's it like being 23 years old in L.A. covering the NBA during the pandemic right now? It's really wild. I'll get to go to the Lakers Pacers game on Wednesday,

which I'm very, very excited to do. Yeah, I've gotten to be at Staples a few times this year. Yeah, it's super cool. You know, every day is beautiful. I will say because today, I live in Santa Monica, so today it was a little bit cloudy, and I was like, why do I even live here if it's going to be cloudy? You know what I mean?

I was like, that's not why I'm here. If I don't see the sun for it. And also, if it rains here, then everybody freaks out. Yeah, it's like it snows when it rains here. Nobody knows how to drive. The streets. You can't go outside. Well, it's like, to people's credit about not being able to drive when it rains here, I think there's, like, actual science behind that.

It's because of how infrequently it rains in Los Angeles that when it does, it, like, brings up all the oil that's, like, in the roads. And so it actually makes them more slick. So, like, when people are, like, tentative drivers and a little bit more like, it's like they're not just being super West Coast, like, bleh. It's actually because it's a little bit harder to drive. It's science. That's literally what it is. So that's what I've learned about that. It's cool.

I basically, I've played GTA 5 before. So, like, I've been here. Even before I moved here, I got here. I was like, yeah, I've played Grand Theft Auto. It's literally the same. I could definitely relate to that feeling, man. Driving around L.A., sometimes it's like I've been here before just because of Grand Theft Auto.

But we'll have to hang out soon in real life in L.A. again, go get another dinner. Nick, I appreciate you joining me this week on the board. I appreciate you having me on, man. Super duper appreciate it, and I think we achieved a lot today. Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of The Void. Thank you to Nick Engel for joining, to Jesse Lopez for producing, and to you for listening to this week's episode.

It would mean a lot if you're able to give us a five-star rating if you're listening on Spotify or on Apple, as well as subscribing and following. If you're not already doing that, to the mismatch podcast feed, it really helps the show out a lot. Thank you so much. I hope you have a fun rest of your day.