The Mismatch - Finding the Right Roles in Philly and Brooklyn, and Recapping the Trade Deadline

Episode Date: February 11, 2022

Verno and KOC recap the slew of NBA trades made yesterday, beginning with the one trade everyone was waiting for: James Harden for Ben Simmons (02:00). KOC still believes the Bucks are the safe pick to win it all, but the 76ers' potential with Harden can definitely carry them (10:00). Verno believes there is more pressure facing Harden in Philadelphia than Simmons in Brooklyn (20:00). They next look at the Celtics and debate their trade for Derrick White (32:33) before questioning the move the Mavs made in trading Kristaps Porzingis for Spencer Dinwiddie and Davis Bertans (38:48). Lastly, they give their thoughts on the rest of the trades made yesterday (49:02). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Benefer is back. Brad and Jen are friends again, and Paris Hilton is somehow still making headlines. 20 years later, we're living in the world that the 2000s tabloids created. On this series, I'm going to tell you the story of a decade of American life through the trash we love to consume. From Spotify and the Ringer podcast network, I'm Claire Malone, and this is just like us, the tabloids that changed America. Listen on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to The Mismatch. I'm Chris Varnan, and joining me as he does every Friday from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, a.K.K. Kevin O. Bomber, Kevin O. Camera. Kevin O. Conflict. Kevin O'Clymer. Kevin O'Killian. Kevin O'Candyland.

Kevin O. Burnow! Deadline. Day plus one. That's yesterday was so fun. And we've been together for five years now. And what I can always count on is that you're going to get mad at me today like you get mad at me after our free agency episode. There's two times a year that Kevin gets mad at me. It's after free agency and it's after the trade deadline. So buckle up, folks. Oh, boy. This is actually our sixth trade deadline.

Wow. All right. We get 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22. This is our sixth deadline. Unbelievable. How could you forget, Chris? Could never. Arguing already.

And this is what's crazy. So yesterday plays out, and we'll start with the Hardin deal, because that is the one that rocked the NBA. There had been a tremendous amount of talk over the course of, really, the last two years about Ben Simmons James Hardin deal. And what originally started with Philadelphia and Houston ends up happening with Philadelphia and Brooklyn. and all the while we have had one player who wasn't even playing this season and was willing to get fine to do it.

We've had another player who over the course of the past couple of weeks it became rather evident that they wanted out. So it wasn't exactly a feel-good story on any end, but it ends up taking place yesterday. I was listening to on my way in today, you on with Bill Simmons yesterday. So I know you have spoken about this already. You love this for Philadelphia, and you think Darryl Morey deserves massive credit for his patience paying off, and he gets to sit in a throne now. Is this fair? Do I have that correct? Yeah, he got James Harding.

After people said he should take Harrison Barnes or C.J. McCollum, yes, I do feel that way. Okay. I don't think anybody, it's a, it's a straw man to say that people said he should take care of some Barnes, but whatever. They kind of did back in October, you know. I don't think anybody said that. But what I will say is two things that have stood out to me over the course of listening to everybody speak on this for the last couple of days. I feel as if people have talked about James Hardin as if he were Ben Simmons and had not played 44 games this season. They've spoken about James Harden as if he hasn't played 44 games,

shot 41% from the field, 33% from three, and played no defense and quit on a team. It is like they just traded for Houston James Hardin, who was coming off 34 points per game and was one of the top five players in the NBA. It is a radical difference, what we have seen from the James Hardin that this conversation originally started with to the James Hardin that is now. And I am perplexed as to why people are acting as if Philadelphia just traded for a version of James Hardin that we haven't seen in quite a while. So I'll let you start with that. I'm not sure people are acting that way. I mean, I can only speak for myself here, I think it's quite clear James Hardin isn't his peak prime self.

And Philadelphia is undoubtedly taking on a significant level of risk here. The Sixers are taking on a guy who reports this morning to say he didn't even opt into next year's deal. Like he's about to get a large max contract when he does have a history of injuries. When he has doesn't look like the same level of guy. There's a chance that just this James Hart's. start an extension by year three or four of it looks like a bad deal. Like there's a chance of that. There is.

I don't, I don't, I mean, I can't speak for anybody else, but I acknowledge that. I just think for the Sixers, considering the situation that they're in, where they did indeed have a guy, to your point, that actually wasn't playing and didn't want to be there for a guy that just tanks his way out of his situation and doesn't look the same even before this tank job actually started happening. I mean, Katie and LeBron even joking about it yesterday during the All-Star draft. Like, that was one of the funniest moments. Unbelievable.

LeBron goes like, is he even healthy right now? He hasn't been playing. Charles comes in. What does he say, Chris? He's healthy now. He just got traded. And you know what? Throughout that entire broadcast, Katie had remained completely stone-faced.

Even when they tried to make hardened jokes, even when they tried to ask him about injury and then laughed about it when he wouldn't say a word about it. No matter what the subject, he just remained completely stone-faced. And not even he. When Charles Barkley got, I mean, he finally broke him down because that was so legitimately funny. You know Kevin Durant, you know Kevin Durant did not want to laugh. He tried it. You can see like his cheeks quiver

Even as Even as he was choosing Riego Bear, like his cheeks They stay at Stonehole They shifted slightly You can tell there's a smile being with hell He did not want to laugh And he couldn't help himself

But anyway Like Hardin is Kevin Durant One of his longtime friends Is unhappy with Hardin Okay, so like the Sixers are taking on an element of risk here They also gave up Seth Curry.

They gave up a first round pick in 2022 and 2027 and Curry and drumming on top of Simmons. Yeah. Like, it's a risk. But keeping Ben Simmons was also the risk at this point. And this was the type of deal that they were waiting for, a player worth waiting for, a risk worth taking. And James Hardin is a risk worth taking. I don't see how it should be any other way to be honest to you in terms of like, Philadelphia had a guy not playing. going from Seth Curry and Andre Drummond to James Hardin in a year in which that

Joel Embed is having a historic season, a potential MVP. Getting James Hardin added to that, assuming he was tanking the last month, assuming his role will be a little bit different, playing with Embed could lead to greater results. I just feel like realistically here for the Philadelphia 76ers here, this is a big win return for Simmons, considering what they could have done back in November, October, you know, around that time when maybe you're right. Like maybe people weren't saying they should take Harrison Barnes.

But the fact is, is that like those were the types of deals that were on the table then. At this time, Hardin wasn't on the table until now, until this month. But Wade and gave them this option is my underlying point here. Okay. This is where you and I absolutely agree. it's 100% a risk work taking. You did not have a chance at a title, and now you can. Now, the first thing I will broach is you're talking about it being a risk,

but yesterday you were on with Simmons, and I listened to it, and you said they should be title favorites. In order for them to be title favorites, you would have to believe that James Hardin is going to be a radically different player than what we have seen already. That's where that comes from, where I was talking about people are talking about him, and I'll include you in this, about him being a guy that unless you believe that this version of James Hardin gives you the chance and it would make you title favorites, that even with this version of James Hardin, but to me, you have to, in order to take that leap and believe that this propels you into, we can beat Milwaukee, we can beat Miami. To me, you'd have to believe that James Hardin is Houston James Hardin, or at least whatever, a lot closer to that than the 41% from the field, 33% from three James Hardin with very lackadaisical defense that we have seen in Brooklyn.

I mean, I do think you'll get a way better James Hardin in Philadelphia. Yes, I do feel that way. As for me saying Philadelphia out of that question, I mean, I don't really recall. if he said favorite or who's your pick in the east. But like in terms of upside, yeah, I think Philadelphia's upside is significant with what their ceiling could be as team in the Eastern Conference. Favorite, like the safe pick is Milwaukee.

Like they're the safer pick. I just think Philadelphia's upside. If Hardin does get back to some type of prior version of himself, if it maintains play. I mean, Philadelphia is undoubtedly not a safe pick. Embedde could get hurt in a week. Like it happens. Philadelphia's 76ers fans know the risks with Embed.

That's one of the reasons why Mori's making this trade to maximize a year in which MBB is healthy and having an MVP season. We don't know what it looks like three or four years from now if you wait. In the end, the deal, I think, is good for Brooklyn. I think it is good for Philadelphia, right? It's just how we got there. And I recoil, and we've talked about this so many times over the course of the past, two years. I recoil at

the Daryl Morey played this all completely right. And look at this. I've known Daryl, as long as I've known any GM outside of Chris Wallace, who is big buddies with him. I met him through him. I've been around him several times. He's been

great to me over the years. This idea that I don't like Moray is goofy. The guy is I genuinely really like him as a person. His acolytes have always puzzled me on some level. I also think he is a great GM.

I also think he is not a guy that can do no wrong. And I would look at it and say that in this particular case, he wanted James Hardin from the moment he stepped in Philadelphia. He had a role in screwing up the Ben Simmons thing. which I've always stood by, right? This is not, you know, Ben Simmons is the only one at fault. I absolutely hate the way Ben Simmons handled the entire thing, but on some level, I do understand getting to that point of frustration,

that people can revisit this all they want and say, well, Tillman Fertito was never trading him. the clutch representatives of Ben Simmons were told and felt strongly enough that a Simmons Harden deal was happening once upon a time that Ben Simmons was shopping for places in Houston. And then Brooklyn came over the top and got it. All right. So, and at that time, I believe it was Ben Simmons and the reporting was that Daryl said, you know,

if I'm giving up Ben Simmons, I'm just giving up Ben Simmons. I'm not giving up Matisse Dibble at that time. I'm not giving up something else in the deal because go find better because your guy is quit on the team and whatever else. So it doesn't happen there. In the process, Ben Simmons then gets alienated. It would be the same thing, Kevin, if, and so his lack of trust and his lack of being all in then gets shattered. It just does. And then, of course, we know the way it played out the playoffs,

and then we know about Doc and Nambide, and we know that Ben handled this very, very poorly from that point. But it all began because a Simmons-hardened deal, like people only go back to the playoffs. This all started with him shopping for houses in Houston, and then not being, you know, at that point, you're just not going to have the same commitment to the place you work.

Bill Simmons came to you today and said, you know what, KOC? We're moving you out. Zach Lowe said he's going to leave ESPN and we're moving. And so, but I've got you a gig at ESPN. And so go shop for places in Bristol or whatever. And then it all falls through. And then he brings,

and Zach just ends up staying or Zach ends up going to bleach a report or something like that. And, I mean, it just, be impossible for you to be like, oh yeah, go ringer. We're all in this together. You'd be like, F Bill Simmons, F the ringer. The second I could get out, I want to get out. I don't know. Yeah, you would. Yeah, you would. I would if that happened today because that's not what this industry is, but if you go into this, knowing the rules and the business that you can be traded, then that would be totally different for me. It's all about mindset and perspective and approach.

Like, but by the way, like plenty of Ben Simmons, Ben Simmons did get traded. Then he came back, some of his best basketball of his life. I mean, he played great after that. And I think also, like, from after that start, you're going to give Simmons credit because he could have folded and could have said, you know what, screw this. But he came back and played great for some time. I mean, I understand your point, and you're right.

Like, you would feel a certain type of way, but that happens with so many players that they're involved in trade discussions. And being in a trade discussion and knowing that the guy that runs the show doesn't want, is different. It's also George Hardin. I mean, you know.

I understand. But now, so I am perplexed as to why a year and a half later with a diminished James Hardin and a diminished value of James Hardin and a diminished value of Ben Simmons, that when Daryl ends up giving up more than what he would have had to give up Houston for a better version of James Hardin, he now gets the king's welcome. Like, he played this perfectly. We should, we positive, this is more? Seth Curry, Andre Drummond and two first round picks?

Yeah, I'm not sure this is necessarily more here. I mean, they could have been more to get hard in the first time. Well, I mean, the reporting was he didn't want to include Thibel. That was the reporting at the time. Yeah, even with this one, he didn't want to include Thibel. Like, that was a part of that. He didn't want to give him up. But in terms of the number of draft picks, I mean, it's at least comparable-ish.

Like, I don't even think about comparing the two, to be honest with you, Chris. Like, it's totally, I mean, like, I'm not trying to sidestep here. I'm just saying, like, it's totally different circumstances. With Houston, there's a lot of belief around the league that Houston wasn't going to trade Mori harder no matter what, that they were just using the Sixers as leverage in order to get the most they could out of the nets or another team. and in this case, the Nets were actually willing to dance. I think it's just different circumstances that I'm not really comparing for Philadelphia here. The circumstances are different because Joelle Labede is just wrecking teams right now.

The circumstances are different because you get Tyrese Maxie, who emerged as a player. He's nearing like becoming a 20 point per game guy. Everything's different now. And I think that necessitates some urgency on the side of the Sixers to actually take a swing here. And I like, that's really like all, all, the only way I look at this is I don't care what happened in the past. All I care about is the fact that you get MB having an MVP season. Here's a deal where you get a former MVP who could outperform his early season performance that actually gives you a chance to win a championship. That's all that matters. Winning a championship with

this crew. That's it. That's all that matters. And the way I look at it is these picks, Curry, Simmons, Drummond, it's worth it for the shot and the chance that James Hardin can be optimized with the players that he's going to be sharing the court with Philadelphia. I mean, that's the only place I'm coming from here. That's it.

All the other stuff to me, I think, is just kind of like, not... I'm just explaining why I recoil at the idea that Derek played this perfectly. I mean, perfectly, or like, can we agree on this, Chris? He played it better than you thought.

maybe not perfect, but better than you thought. I certainly did not expect the James Harden thing to play out the way it did, yes. So I guess it's okay. I mean, that's, that's why I've been saying since October, wait, because a player ends up, you know, disgruntled. But I, but again, I mean, and this is where we break ways. I wouldn't want Hardin. You wouldn't.

Yeah, no, I don't think. I don't think he's a title winning player. I think you need a killer. As we've argued for years about Hart. Yeah, I think you need a killer and I think he's not. When it comes time to win at the highest level, you need a killer. And that's not that guy. And he's also developing a track record for, you know, being a little bit of a quitter, too,

quitting on some situations, which right or wrong, like with Simmons, you can understand why. Yeah, but I see, this is why I actually. can talk myself into the Simmons thing a little bit more, hey, the price and the age. But look, and again, it's not like I'd be lining up to get Ben Simmons either, okay? So let's just be this clear. Like, again, both of these guys are intensely unlikeable in this situation.

They both quit on their teams, right? And one of them is 33 years old who has shown a propensity to not exactly take care of his body in the way that many of his peers have. And also, he hasn't played well this year as compared to superstar status that he has within the league. That being said, you know, Simmons, I look at it and I say, I don't need Ben Simmons to be my guy. I don't even need him to be my second guy in that situation, right? But Ben Simmons is my third guy, you know, playing defense, rebounding, setting up other guys. You know, if he's in the dunker spot, so what?

It's not as big a deal when he's in the dunker spot for Brooklyn. In fact, he will be in many cases as when it's Philly, right? Like, I needed, you needed him in Philly to be a guy. You needed him to be good. And you needed him to be able to, you know, make plays when it mattered most. and now those plays that he has to make when it matters most don't include going and getting me a bucket. He can probably will, but he doesn't have to. And that's the difference to me, right?

You, this is about counting on hard. It is. Because when it comes down and it's a, you're down by two with 12 seconds left and you got the ball, you can say you're going to run it to M-Bed, but in the end, we have learned over the years. When it's Kobe in check, that's Kobe's shot. When it's Wade in check, it's Wade shot. Like the perimeter guys are typically the ones that are going to decide the stuff.

It was Jimmy Butler, you know, when they had a killer in Philly, that almost got them to the next round if it weren't for Kauai Leonard hitting the rims 700 times and dropping in. So that's what I'd say. Like on the net side, you're counting a lot more on Hardin in Philly than you are Simmons in Brooklyn. Because that's Durant's deal. And I trust Kevin Durant a lot more than I do James Hardin in big spots. Sure.

I mean, look, man, I think the way you're talking about that there, that kind of captures why both things. teams do this in a way. For Philadelphia, they need a guy who's going to be the guy down the stretch of games. That's been one of their problems for a long time now because Embed can't do it all himself. It's harder on the low post. And for him, I mean, like this could help.

If you have James Hardin, if he's screening for Hardin, defenses are going to inevitably switch those screens and the games a lot. That's going to create a mismatch for somebody. Maybe it's Hardin. Maybe it's a bead. So, I mean, I think maybe you might see some more efficient. opportunities for Joel and Bede down the stretch of games as a result of hard. Like at all, like you want that guy to rely on. And whereas for the Brooklyn Nets,

it's the opposite. I mean, you're going to, you do want a guy to rely on down the stretch of games. Don't get me wrong because Kyrie's still a part-time player. There will be Knights Simmons is the number two, not the number three. But speaking strictly about the Knights that it is Kevin Durant, Carrie Irving, and Ben Simmons, which could be full-time. We'll see with the New York City, you know, vaccine mandate that could become full-time. time. But on nights where they are, Simmons slides into like this, you know, kind of glue guy role for the nets. And that could be more valuable to them considering Kevin Derry and Kyrie than having Hardin's because there's some overlap with the permanent skills with

Kyrie Hardin and Katie. Like that in many ways, it's a shame that we're not able to see what that team could be again. You know, another year with those three guys just wrecking defenses. But on the other, like the fit is cool. The fit is nice. I like it for them simply because we remember a few years ago when there was that Jimmy Butler, Joe L.M.B. Ben Simmons

triumphant. And nobody blamed Ben Simmons. He wasn't even a topic. He wasn't. It was not the reason that anybody pinned on them losing to that eventual champion

Toronto, you know. And, you know, I mentioned to you about three or four months ago on NBA TV, they re-ran one of those games. And watching Simmons Guard Kauai, who was, you know, in many people's minds, one of the top two, three players in the NBA at that time, he was unbelievable. He was unbelievable guarding him in that series. And that was kind of like what we were left with. He just wasn't asked to do much.

And those games were going to be decided by Jimmy Butler and, to a lesser extent, Joel Embed. And maybe, you know, another guy would hit a shot here or there. But it let Simmons be what he is, right? Which is a really expensive second or third best player. And you're probably not winning a title of he's your second best player. But he gets to go back into, and I say offense, third best offense. player on your team that just kind of gets to do what he's good at and not and and and and the light doesn't shine on what he can't do and Simmons needs to embrace that like Ben Simmons is going to have

to be like okay yeah I will be the Draymond Green the Blake Griffin the the Bruce Brown of the Brooklyn Nets he needs to take that on and fully embrace it and and maybe he will if he does I think this will be highly successful for the Nets if he says yeah I'll screen and roll and pick a part defenses. If I cut, hang around the dunker spot, as you mentioned earlier. It can work at a really high level. The net's one of the most frequent switching defenses as well. And he can help really bolster them their 21st in defensive rating as on Friday morning. Simmons should help there once he's back in a full basketball rhythm.

You know, I think in that sense for Brooklyn here, they become better not to mention Seth Curry. If Joe Harris is out for the entire season, which sounds like it, right? My impression from the people I talk to is that it's an unlikelyhood that he does return, at least during the regular season. I mean, we'll see, I mean, if he can for the playoffs, but it seems very iffy at all right now. It's in the air, which is why getting Seth Curry,

a guy who can do some of the similar things running off screens and handoffs. If anything, they become a little bit more dynamic with Curry, because Curry can do a little bit more off the dribble. He can run more pick and roll. He can attack the basket a bit more than Joe Harris. just now you get a little worse defensively in that role because Harris was better defensively than Curry. But I mean overall, though, I like this deal a lot for the Nets

considering the circumstances for them too. It's going to create two weird-ass locker rooms. There's no way around that. On both sides, right? Because you are now injecting James Hardin into that Philly situation, which has been all feel good up to this point. And they all love Curry too, right? So, I mean, it just has a,

You know, there's always, you know, a mental component to this and kind of a team chemistry thing. And the other thing is just a locker room where on one side is Gary Irving and another side is Ben Simmons and Katie's in the middle. I mean, it is all, you know, that is a part of basketball. These guys are on the planes together. These guys are in the locker rooms together. These guys are, you know, they become, you hope. friends, you know, and at worst, teammates that can function together very well. It's obviously better if they are friends off the court and sometimes that shows on the court and leads to teams

that you see great team chemistry with. But, I mean, there's only like 30 games left or less and you're now ejecting like a totally different deal into both of those locker rooms and eccentric personalities to say the least. And you know what? It's the same on the flip side. Like it's going to be a weird chemistry thing with the Nets as is with the Sixers. Like it didn't, for Hardin, it didn't work with Dwight Howard. It didn't work with Chris Fall.

It didn't work with Russell Westbrook. It didn't work with Kevin Durant and Carrie Irving. Well, let's see now how it works with Joel Embed. And if Joel Embed is like all of a sudden moves from top MVP candidate to you know, not producing at that same level, not being the same guy as he was, not being the man. He is

the heart and soul of that team. He is the voice of that team. He is all of those things. He is their best player. And so is hard and fine with being second banana. I do, Chris. I mean, he wouldn't have pushed for this. I mean, like, how much

of an ego could you have to look at the Sixers right now and say, oh, I'll go there and be, you can take the back of the spot. I mean, you've got to be really, really, like, delusional. I know, but you just can't, you can't figure out what, nobody can figure out what's going to make him happy. No, totally. No, no, no.

I agree there. I think the one thing I'll say is this about the fit with Philadelphia. Like, Hardin's going to have to buy in. It's going to have to be healthy. Like, all of those things. It goes without staying. But the fit with Embed here, Embed has never had a guy who can run a pick and roll and is a major threat that

shoot off the bounce. Like Jimmy Butler, I mean, that pick and roll combination, their year together, they scored 0.9 points per chance

running the pick and roll. And that's very low, league-wide. So with Butler as a ball handler, Embed as the screener, he's never had anybody like Hardin. I mean,

Fultz was supposed to be the guy that they drafted who would become their perimeter playmaker, the guy that, you know, would enhance Simmons and a beat

and compliment them on the perimeter. obviously failed. But even with Jimmy Butler, he's more of a slashing type. You know, downhill, get to the basket, draw fouls. With Hardin, it's going to create a different type of dynamic within B that we've never been able to see.

Yeah, it'll be fascinating because he's not, he's not the Capella. He's not a, I get into the lane. You know, Trey Young's really good at this with Capella now or John Collins now, which is very simple basketball. I get into the lane.

Now you're big's on an island. He's got to make a choice. If he comes up and stops me, then I'm going to just lob it over his head and my big's going to sneak him behind him and cram it. If he doesn't, I'm just going to beat you to death with this floater. And that's not what Embed is, right? He's like a slow, slow roller. He doesn't roll a hard.

Yeah, I mean, he definitely prefers to pick and pop. That's for damn sure. I mean, Hardin can play with a pick and pop guy, too. But as we've seen, going back to a Ryan Anderson, for example, totally different players, obviously, but you get what I'm saying. I don't know, man. I think there's going to be a lot to see here. How does Doc Rivers tweak his system around James Hardin?

How does he fill the Seth Curry? I actually don't think he hasn't tweaked that much. They do a lot of standing around anyway. They are slow as hell. Yeah. That's the way it can be with a post player. Like, Amid, where's the passing come off? of a defensive action.

If there's a double or a pressure, then the passing can occur. But I don't know, man. I just want to see how much more pick and roll they're going to run because you have Hardin now, how much more ISOs are you going to run with Hardin from the perimeter? I just think you're going to create a heck of a lot of mismatches

with the way defense's switch screens with Hardin and it beat is that combination. So I look forward to seeing how this team evolves over the course of the season. we obviously spent a lot of time on the biggest trade for certain talking through that. We are going to hit every trade that took place one by one as to that way nobody's going to message us like, hey, you didn't talk about so-and-so trade. So we're going to go through all of these rapid fire one by one.

And they are not obviously, when you hear what I start with, listed in level of importance. Okay. the Boston Celtics got Daniel Tice, the Houston Rockets, got Dennis Schrooter, Enis Freedom, and Bruno Fernando. I did chuckle when I saw this because there was that sentiment last year that Boston traded Daniel Tice because Brad Stevens was running like end of game, out of timeout, game winning shots for Daniel Tice. And they just had to like extract him from the situation. and that Danny A. Just couldn't take it anymore. Well, now we know Brad Stevens is the GM,

and I'll be damned. He goes and gets Daniel Tice back. He undoes what Danny H. did last year. I mean, remember we did a show where we goofed about how they got better after they traded Daniel Tice? We were like, all they needed to do was get rid of Daniel Tice. And things started turning up. So I don't know.

I was a little perplexed by that one. How about the Celtics other deal with Derek White? The Celtics getting Derek White. I actually liked. So Josh, they gave you have Josh Richardson, Romeo Langford. Their 2022 first round pick protected in a 2028 first round pick swap, which Bill Simmons tweeted about this morning. And while we're recording our podcast yesterday, we didn't know about it.

Like, we didn't see this detail pop-off. I didn't either. We didn't see this because it's hard to, like, see all the little details with trades while you're recording a podcast sometimes. And they're giving up a top one protected 2028 pick swap. I mean, like Bill said in that tweet, you never know. You never know. I mean, like, really?

Like, you've got to give that up, too. So they swap out with the Spurs. The Spurs will have the rights to swap picks, yes. The Spurs will have the rights to swap picks. in 2028 with the Celtics, which is a long time. Yeah, it is a long time away. And it's one of those things that we could look back and really does hurt you. But just on the surface, I don't mind acquiring.

I don't mind acquiring Derek White yesterday. And I actually think, I mean, he could play for them, for sure. I was texting with some execs about a couple of the deals. And with Derek White, I've had a handful of people say to me, they think he'll be way better in a new situation than he was in San Antonio. Like a couple, there's, like, he has his lovers across the league that think he has on tap potential

that the spurs didn't get out of him because of his lower usage playing next to Bessonte Murray, DeMarta Rosen in recent years. I mean, we'll see. I don't necessarily agree. I'm just throwing that thought out there to you that, like, there are people who think Derek White will level up in a new environment. Poor Dennis Schrooter, that is what ran through my mind

on that deal too. Damn, man. Went from the lake or something. I mean, he'll get bought out. You hope so? He'll get bought out and then he'll probably go to the Lakers. I mean, you hope he gets bought out because, I mean, geez. I think he will.

All right. Well, then you get to pick your team and it wouldn't be that bad. Yeah, I mean, but like Derek White is like the main player that's going to change things for the Celtics here. I don't know, dude. Like, I like Derek White. I do like Derek White. I do like him just fine, too. He's a good player, a great defensive player.

He can run pick and roll. He hits shot. off the dribble. He's very inconsistent. Like if he could find consistency as a shooter off the balance, it's like last year he shoots like 30% on dribble jumpers. This year he's shooting near 40% on dribble jumpers. But this year he's shooting like 32% on catch and shoot threes. Last year he shoots like 39, 40% on catching shoot threes.

Like he's just up and down, up and down, whether it's off the catch, off the dribble. Every year it's like that. Like it's always inconsistent. So with Boston, his role is going to be, playmaker first, which could be a good thing. Yeah, I just don't, I don't understand. Like, he is more of a combo type, as they say. Yeah, not your true.

And I don't understand what they're reluctant is to just get a traditional point guard, a guy like just set the table, get me in the offense, guy, like, they always get the combo guys, you know, whether it's going back, whether it's Kyrie or it's Kemba or now that Marcus Smart has the ball in his hands quite a bit. Or Dennis Schrooter or now Derek White. It's like even if it's not like, you know, the best player in the world, just somebody that kind of gets me in the offense, plays defense, and, you know, moves the ball around.

Well, I mean, I think I think maybe it's just never done it. Well, here's the thing. Like maybe he had to play more of a combo because he's sharing a court with Murray. He's sharing a court with DeRosen, is now in Boston, maybe they tell him to be, maybe they tell him to be more of like, you're our point guard, you are our playmaker, because he does have great feel in the pick and roll.

I mean, he's a good passer. I mean, like the pace he plays with the accuracy in which he delivers the ball. I mean, Derek White, he's a good point guard. Even in Colorado at college, like his last year, senior year when he kind of became a, you know, like a potential first round. pick or early second round guy.

He was asked to be the hybrid there too, as you're describing. But one of the greatest appeals of him was his IQ and his feel and his vision. And like that still exists for him today. But maybe in a new circumstance next to Tadam and Brown, the Celtic is going to be like, yeah, scoring for you, it's like situational. We need you to be the best passer you can be. We'll see. We're just projecting here.

We'll see over the next couple of weeks and months. how these new players fit into their new situations. But I am intrigued about how, like, Derek White has some of his people around the league who think he could pop. You know, it's just a thought that I'm keeping in mind about Derek White. Let me tell you who's not going to pop.

Well, maybe they will. Spencer Dinwiddie and Davis Bertons get traded from the Washington Wizards to the Dallas average for Chris Tapps, Porzengis at a second round pick. I mean, I was listening to you guys talking about this deal

and you're like, there just has to be another Dallas deal. Like there has to be something else. And it turned out there wasn't anything else. I mean, they announced they signed Dori and Finney Smith through a reasonable contract.

Congrats to him. You see the quote? He's like, now my mom can like quit her job and like still look comfortably. That's good, good for that family. I love seeing that. It felt like,

Hey, let's put out some feel-good news and signed Dorian Finney Smith to his extension today. So that maybe somebody will talk about that instead of our abhorrent trade. This trade is terrible. Terrible. That is terrible. Spencer Dinwiddie has been awful. And Davis Bertot in his contract, I mean, when he said, that day he signed, that was a free agency deal, I told you, this is the, this is the Chandler Parsage. regrettable deal. It's so obvious even before it ever takes place that they're going to overpay this

guy drastically for the good three-point shooting season that he had. If you want to do the whole, you know, it doesn't really matter. Lucas is the dude just surrounded with a bunch of shooters, crazy usage rate. It's almost like the old hardened rockets. You know, there were all these reports about them maybe moving off of Tim Hardaway Jr. You wonder if his injury just really stymied that and so that that might have been the move. There'd always been the reporting that Luca and Chris Depps were not exactly best friends.

I thought it was interesting. Haralabob. I saw him tweet yesterday. It's something like kind of cryptic but not too cryptic. I saw that too. Maybe he never wanted an A1 or a 1A. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Well, he didn't say Luca. He didn't say Luca. He just said he. Yeah. But everybody knew what you're talking about. Well, I mean, like, in response to that, maybe Luca didn't want a 1A who is always out injured. That's reasonable.

And in that case, I mean, like, that's why, like, with Dallas here, this is the deal people we're talking about around the league more than anything else. They're like, wow, KP for Dinwiddie and Perthons. Bro, you could have gotten better players. I don't care what you think Porzingis' value is. It is not Dinwiddie and Bertons. It's crazy. It really is shocking. And I mean, like in the end here, they gave up the two firsts, you know, to get Porzengis a couple of years ago.

And then two years later, you get Dinwiddie and Bertons. But it's not like they're expiring. No, they're not. So let me back up. On Tuesday, Wednesday, whatever day it was when we heard about Porzingis and the Raptors, the way that was, I was told,

for them, Dallas wants to get started on their free agency clock earlier. They want more movable salaries and all that. Here, like Dinwiddie and Bertons, it's pretty close to equivalent money over the same duration of time. It's slightly less because of a non-guaranteed deal.

But the way, again, it was explained to me for Dallas is having two contracts that are in a more movable range keeps them more flexible. But like let's take this for what it is, though. This is a straight dump. It is a we are giving up on you, Chris Stab's poor Zingis. That's what this is. We gave up on you because if you're trading Porzingis who this season,

offensively, his post-ups, the way he started the season, he was terrific. He's fallen off a cliff efficiency-wise. He's shooting below 30% from three. He is not the floor spacer people think he is. Defensively, he's been very good, though. He's been the anchor for that team, and you're going to give him credit for his performance on defense this season. But for Dallas, the trade him for Dinwiddie and Burton's unequivocally says,

we don't believe in you. That's what it says. If he's a salary dump, we don't believe in you. I'm going to give you an interesting scenario because for a while there, it was one of the things that we talked about even in Memphis. Now, Memphis is it three, okay? But one of the things that I talked about was the outside of Phoenix, who you know, that's who you're going to have to go through in order to achieve the highest level of winning in the Western Conference. In terms of matchups, they were the one team.

In fact, I want to say the only team that has held Memphis under 100, like two different times. They were a nightmare for the Grizzlies. Now, everybody hasn't been healthy for them on either side of that. But they play slow. You cannot speed Luca up. And Porzingis was just a matchup nightmare. He was one of the very few guys in the league that could match the length of somebody like Jared Jackson.

You didn't have an advantage with somebody like Jared Jackson Jr. With Porzingis out there on the court. You couldn't necessarily punish them. size-wise, and he was a guy that also could guard a guy. Like, he was another unicorn type. And I don't know, man, like that's just one matchup. And it's not exactly like, you know, if you're Dallas, you're not thinking, like, oh, wow, what would it take for, you know, what's best suited for us to beat a team like Memphis?

I would just tell you, do the prism of somebody who, a fan of a team that might have met them in the playoffs, they are infinitely less scary today than they would have been yesterday. like they were just a problem. Their problem. Sometimes teams are bad matchups for you. The way they play, the way they defend, the personnel that they have. And I think he provides them in some cases. Now, again, he doesn't provide it enough because he's out a lot.

But he's a real player when he's healthy. I know it has not been what you'd envision it being in Dallas. but they've also been, like, great for the last month, maybe even longer, six weeks. They've been great. They started off really sputtering. And so I just, I don't know. I don't know. I get it.

It is a dump. But damn, how much do you hate the guy? Because it's hard for me to see how this makes you better. Maybe Spencer Dinwiddie and then. Davis-Pertons will be radically different players there than they have been. I mean, well, here's the thing, though. Like, I said this on Bill's Pod yesterday. They're going to become a small ball team now.

You're going to become a team where you're playing Dwight Hall and Maxie Kleva at the five a lot with Luca. And in that sense, their whole personality is going to change. We saw Luca score 51 points last night on 26 shots. That's amazing. 51 points in 17 and 26. 28 in the first quarter. Yeah, and he's ludicrous. And, I mean, with all the spacing he'll have with Clebe out there or the rim running of Dwight Powell,

like it's going to change the way the team looks and they're going to be undersized on certain nights. It's going to hurt them defensively. But offensively, like the upside is there. If Bertons is able to return to become a 40% three-point shooter, if Dinwiddie, I mean, Dinwiddie has sucked this year, but it's also his first year back from a torn ACL. And for Dallas, part of this flexibility here is now it creates. some, you know, maybe you move Jalen Brunson during the off season and a sign and trade. You know, there was talks that they were going after Jeremy Grant now before the deadline

that didn't work out, obviously. Grant is still with the pistons. But that could extend to the off season where maybe you give up Brunson and a sign and trade with a pick or two and then you get him. So in that sense, like with Dallas, this deal isn't, like when we were talking about the Sixers and Nets, I'm in, like, that's about the basketball. With the Mavericks deal here, it's almost not about the basketball. It's about the roster and the flexibility and how you built this out. So for Dallas, we almost don't know. Well, and that was, yeah.

There's a hell of a response. There's a hell of a response. Yeah. By Luca. Hey, you trade this guy. And how about this? Like Mark Cuban, just a couple of months ago with KP trade rumors is like, we're not trading. You know, and why would you trade stars?

fans can't believe anything that come from teams. Steve Nash says we're not trading hard. You can't believe anything, a player, coach, executive, owner, whatever it is, you can't believe it. You have to always, always read between the lines, always. And look, I saw that Clippers team in person earlier in the week and then watch that last night as Luca was just eviscerating them. Let me just, just aside, though, this has nothing to do with our conversation today.

This Ty Lou is, after seeing them up close, And then seeing that last night, this Tailu is a damn miracle worker to have as many wins as they have this year. That team, you watch him, I have no idea how they have won. I sat there watching the game and I'm like, how the hell does this team, how does this team won as many games as it has? This team stinks. And they've wrecked up wins. I mean, they've been in the mix. And it is puzzling because you watch.

that's twice I've seen them in this past week where I'm just like how how do they get so when he wins this year so I guess kudos as they would say to tyloo Phoenix got air in holiday for nothing cash I mean the only thing is surprising about that I mean look it's just more depth the one thing surprising was that was a proper server gave up cash no way I was like it's more stunning than them trading like a real player

He gave somebody money for a player? No way. He won't give his own players money. He gave some other team money. Speaking of not giving players money, Tori Craig, they got back with the sons, who was helpful to them last year. They loved him.

Good locker room guy too and useful. Of course, he suffered that injury last year in the playoffs. But Indiana got Jalen Smith, who they refused to pay not even pick up his fourth year even after using a top ten pick on them and a second round pick and it's just the weirdest thing

bro they could have just signed Tory Craig why are they giving up their lottery pick from like a couple of years ago and another pick to get a guy they could have just given money to in the off season I swear It's the weirdest thing.

Even great teams can make mistakes. Very clearly we've seen that happen. That is wild. This one really flew under the radar. Montrez-Harao going to Charlotte and Vernon Carey and Ish Smith going to the Wizards. Ish Smith, that is now, his 29th team, he only has to play for one more to complete the end-a-kid. but he has played for like 16 teams or something. I think he has an old wizard's jersey,

so I wonder if he could just whip that one out if they haven't changed him. It's probably like a Reebok one, though. Montres-Harrell going to Charlotte. I like that. Charlotte needs another big. Probably would have been better to get a true center. But, you know, at the beginning of the season, When we were doing our predictions, I told you that I saw their record with and without Hayward last year.

We realized the insane level of importance, almost outsized level of importance and impact he has had on winning and losing there. And I just do not trust him to stay healthy. And so that's why I was lower on Charlotte than some of my peers. and I hate to say that that paid off, but I mean, he's done again. You really cannot stay healthy. He can't stay healthy. And he was essential to what they did. And so I don't know of Montrez-Aro.

I think it's just, you know, having another wing, having another guy that can play make outside of Lamello. You know, they got a bunch of guys on that team that aren't necessarily create your own shot guys. Ubre's been good for them, for sure. Lemo, gonna make an all-star appearance. But Hayward has been very important to what they do, and so I don't think it helps that cause. But, I mean, they got him for nothing.

I mean, it's just their backup point guard. I actually like this deal for Charlotte. I did. And that Harold thing, man, that didn't go well in Washington. We're pretty now far removed from that Montres-Herald Clippers version after last year with the Lakers,

this year with the Wizards, and so maybe he'll regain some of his you know. With Charlotte, I mean, he could catch he could catch Lobbs and he can run up and down the court. He's great in space. He is. He's dynamite. Lamella Ball is

second in the NBA and transition assists per game. I mean, like, Montres Harold is going to run the floor hard. He always does. He always has. So, you know, Lamello is actually first now in transition

assists per game. He has surpassed Chris Paul by decimals. So he averages 1.7 transition assist per game leading the NBA, Lamello ball is. And Lamelemaudor's always near the top of the league as players on the receiving end. So, I mean, those two are going to be a fun, dynamic connection leading the many highlight plays.

And then the half court, you know, you know who Harold can be. Maybe this does help regain some of his value. Maybe we see him excel like we did with Lou Williams. Because Lamello can be that type of playmaker. So I like deadline day for Charlotte too. My favorite deal of the day, Boston receives a future second round pick, giving up Bull Bull, P.J. Dozier, a future second round pick and cash.

And it is only because I dream of one day Mo Bamba and Bowl Bowl. together in a front court. I saw people yesterday saying people were rapidly going to pick up, go play with the magic on 2K. You got 2.7. You know, they tell me that Bull Bowl is like a damn cheat code on that game because he blocks shots at the rim. Like he is the version of Bull Bowl that you would want,

which is a guy that like, you know, he blocked a bunch of shots at the rims, but he could also bang threes and bomb the same way. I mean, this is, and then Isaac, this is maybe the future of basketball. Wendell Carter's been good. We could just go one small and four huges, right? Have a little Cole Anthony running around everywhere amongst the trees and then just they're paying and then spacing it out with seven foot two guys.

They need to go get taco. Where's he? He's the Cleveland, right? They need to go get taco. And we go Taco Bomba Bowl. he was in Cleveland and now and now he's gone now I believe

I believe that he was let go at one point let's fact fact check this real quick if a taco falls in the woods I mean I mean I didn't even know

he was with the calves and now he's with their G league team so he went to the Cleveland charge oh okay well then you still under contract probably.

I don't know. Is he a G-League contract? Do they wave him? Is he two-way? Two-way. Two-way. All right. They do have his right.

They do have his right. Technically with the calves, yeah. There you go. Toronto, got Thad Young, Drew Eubanks, a 22-second round pick via Detroit. That's actually a good pick. Is that right?

I miss that. A 2022 second-rounder from Detroit to be pretty damn good. It's Detroit's pick. If he got the Spurs got Goren Dragich protected 22-22 first-round pick. So they were able to find their deal for Dragage. It's really Thad Young is the one that they got. I mean, look, Ted Young can play minutes for you.

And that's what we were talking about the other day. He's another wing, and he can play minutes for you. They play six or seven guys every damn night. You know, he's going to run these dudes into the ground. They're playing every game like it's the playoffs. And they've been awesome. They have been awesome. Gary Trent, I thought he was going to go for 50 last night in their game.

But they just need somebody else to play for them. They need at least an eighth guy that Nick Nurse will roll out there because it's just unsustainable playing these guys 45 minutes every damn night. What do you think of what do you think about the flip? By the way, real quick, tackle fall does have a G league deal. It's G league only. Oh, so he said, go get him, John Hammond. Okay, yeah, go, okay. So, all right, but, like, with that Raptors first deal, like, yeah, I agree with you on the Raptor's side.

On the Spurs side, what do you think about their new look, their new personnel? Like, now you get Dejante Murray, Devin Fassell should be getting more minutes now that Derek White has been moved. Maybe even Kelvin Johnson's getting more touches for that matter. I think Vassel is the guy who you'll see his role change quite a bit. There may be even, even though you get Richardson, Primo, maybe. maybe he'll slide in by the end of the season could get more opportunities. We'll see there.

What do you think about everything that Spurs did? Getting Dragich was interesting. Yeah, I mean, they didn't give up anything necessarily that was helping them that that young thing has not helped them very much. He was only playing, what, 14 minutes a game? So what? If you're not going to play him,

obviously I'd rather have Gore and Dragich in whatever version of Gore and Dragich I could go out there and give me some minutes and play for me. And he could play with Murray too. And Mark Stein interestingly reported yesterday that the buyout might not happen immediately

if there's a buyout at all. Well, they have a previous relationship. Pop does with him. So, you know what I mean? He might be okay there. Maybe. Yeah, it could be. Maybe.

I think he wants to play with Luca. But then again, I mean, at least he's going to show, up. He didn't show up in Toronto. I mean, that's step one. He's going to show up. It appears he is.

So, yeah, I mean, I don't think that they are, I don't think they're probably going to make the play in. But did they improve themselves from what they were 24 hours ago? Yeah. Yeah. I like it better. They weren't using that. They played 14 minutes.

And they get a first round pick out of it too. So now, San Antonio, if the season ended today, the Spurs would have the sixth best lottery odds plus the 18th, 20th, and 42nd pick in the draft. And if you look at Tankathon.com's draft pick power rankings, which ranks like the amount of selections teams have, their value and all that, the spurs are right behind Oklahoma City in terms of value and draft picks in this year's drafts. So, I mean, for San Antonio, they have some good young talent, and they are in a great position to be flexible in the 2022 draft, having three firsts in the one second round pick. So I like the spot San Antonio's in.

If I'm a Spurs fee, I'm feeling pretty good right now. I'm feeling pretty good about the position my team's in. All right. Detroit got Marvin Bagley, the third freedom at last. Oh, yeah. Congrats, Chris. Thank you. Thank you.

We get to share. Let's go. and Bagley and Killian Hayes on the same team at once. I can't wait until they run a pick and roll together. It's Kay Cunningham. Kate Cunningham at Bagley, future basketball. Well, what about Killian and Bagley?

He fouled out in 12 minutes last night. Isn't that amazing? It really was. Truly remarkable. Almost impossible. That's why I had him wreck number once. I knew he could fall out in 12 or 13 minutes. I knew that.

That's why. Look, Bagley's got to pay off now for me. I've stuck with it through all thin. And I need him to show out. You know, look, you should be able to put up numbers on that rat team. The Clippers, they got Rodney Hood and Semi-O-Jolet because they are, they have this never-ending quest to just acquire every wing in the league. They got Robert Covington, Norm Powell, Rodney Hood, semi-Ojolay.

Like, okay, so I did, whatever. Dante DiVincenzo, Josh Jackson, and Trey Liles. to the Kings. Dr. DiVicenzo, who was once going to go to the Kings in a Bogdanovitch deal that everybody screwed up with Milwaukee before he ended up in Atlanta. I'm going to say something extremely controversial. Ready? I'm ready, Chris.

I don't hate the King's deadline at all. Me neither. I don't. I watched him the other night and, look. Look, let me be clear. Time will tell if they made the wrong choice in letting Halliburton go instead of Fox. Because that's really the choice, right? Like if you, you know, but the idea that they moved out Halliburton and they moved out healed.

And then who knows if it's just shot of adrenaline for one night. but watching it the other night, that was by far the best Davy on Mitchell has ever looked in an NBA uniform. It wasn't even close. I think he had 18, 7 and 7. Fox has been off the charts great since his return. Last three games.

He was awesome in that game. And Barnes was off the charts in that game. Like, it's, again, time will tell if they made a massive mistake and we'll see what Halliburton's career becomes. But I have always been very high on Fox and as I watched it play out the other night, it's like, I felt like you got better versions of these guards by extracting other guards from the situation. And the same might have been true if you would have moved off of like, say, Fox and Davy on Mitchell, right? It has been true. When Halliburton has gone and he has played without Fox, his numbers have been crazy when he's run the show. And so it was just the fact that they can't all play together.

They can't play all together. It was too much. And so you got to thin that out. And so they thinned it out by going again. getting one of the great big men in the lead. And I felt like people really took up piss on that the other day because it was just Halliburton this, Halliburton this. Oh my God, Kang's this, Halliburton this.

And it's like, it's not like they got some bum. Sabonis is awesome. He's awesome. And he's in his prime right now. He's like literally entering his prime. It ain't easy to average whatever he had, 20, 12, and 7, or whatever the hell he averaged last year.

Like, this guy is big time production. He can make other players better because he could pass her. And maybe it was just one night. But, man, I liked the way they looked. I liked the way they looked the other night. And I like adding DiVincenzo to the mix. Yeah, Devin Chenzzo is a nice little bonus.

I mean, look, I think with this deadline week for the kids, Kings here. I don't hate it. I don't love it. It's, you know, we'll see how it plays out here because of, like you said, Sabonis is a very good player and he's in his prime or about to enter his prime. It was really just the shock of dealing Hallibor. It was really just the shock of the deal that they actually did give him up. But, I mean, I think for the Kings here, that speaks to maybe the market wasn't as there for Deon Fox as they would have hoped for. Deals weren't available that made sense for them to do with involving Fox.

And I do think, to your point about Davian Mitchell, all season long, he's had like some great nights, horrible night, horrible night, horrible night, horrible, horrible, horrible, good. You know, it's been very inconsistent. There's been some flashes. But the last eight games, he's been way more consistent. It's as if things have clicked a bit.

And it's only a small sample. But last eight games averaging 18 points, five assists to only two turnover shooting 38% on seven attempts from three per game nearing 50% from the floor period he's looked so much more comfortable looks more like the guy that we saw at Baylor and maybe this is just a hot stretch for him but maybe not maybe not maybe like he's just things are starting to click for him and for Sacramento here I mean they they have a team where if Mitchell is able to continue a ending, you got your two guards.

And now you also have some bonus on top of that. And if Devencenzo can get back to the guy he was pre-injury, you got a really good, you know, three-and-e style wing. Devin Chats is a good player. And bars made every damn shot the other night. Yeah, I mean, like everything all together, the King's roster can be better if they get Devenzo back to his former self if Mitchell continues developing.

Maybe even Subonis, you can get more out of him than Indiana could. With his... Rashon Holmes? I mean, get your old... your old buddy, you know, back in the mix. Rashon Holmes was involved, like, in some trade, you know, discussions around the deadline. We'll see if, like, they keep him after this season.

But, like, I mean, he's still a good player, you know, put him in a bench roll or, you know, have him play against more backups. Yeah, I mean, we'll see with the Kings. I don't love their deadline. I think giving up Halliburne, he was the most valuable player in the deal, being in a second year of his rookie contract.

We'll see how this play is out over the course of time. But like I said, like the Wednesday emergency pod we did with Sir Rsohe and Logan Murdoch it's like playing devil's advocate here maybe the Kings feel Halliburton maxes out as a good role player.

You know, a guy who contributes towards winning, brings hustle and high IQ and playmaking and some shot making but not a star. Maybe that's the way they perceive Halliburton where Sabonis is already an all-star. Well, and maybe and maybe Sabonis is the best way

to unlock Fox and Barnes. Again, time will tell. Time will tell. But having a guy that you can throw the ball to and get you a bucket within 10 feet of the basket, and he's a bucket, man. And he plays hard. And he plays hard.

He plays hard. He gets you extra possessions on offense. And we'll see. Again, it might have just been opening night adrenaline. But, you know, even though I was one of the people were reacting the way I did on the day of the deal, I am a little surprised there wasn't more like, Hell yeah, we got some bonus from even Kings fans.

But I think even for them, it was the shock of giving up Halliburton. I think so much of it was that. I tell you this, though, I was watching that. I think sometimes we get swayed by what we see on social media, and we take that as how they feel. I was watching that game against Minnesota. That crowd was live. It was rocking.

You know, and again, it's just honeymoon stuff with Sabonis. But, I mean, like, you know, Sabonis was like, crowd was amazing. I mean, it looked like hell at the beginning of the game. And then it filled in, and they got raucous in that game. It was, there was a real energy in there that you could sense coming through TV. And, you know, DeAnne Fox is all happy. Everybody seemed happy. Everybody's running up and down.

It was a honeymoon game. Now, again, that doesn't last if you start losing games. but no. I certainly think they're, I didn't hate it because I do think that, you know, it's kind of on the track. I think Sabonis is kind of,

he's young, he's young player, right? And that is juxtaposed to, Lord knows, I got all kinds of hate about the friggin pelicans the other day. You know, because I said I didn't necessarily think that these moves, Valchunis, McCollum necessarily fit the timeline of those

other guys, right, in terms of building the team. And they're going in to try to get in this play in and whatever. And so Pelicans fans were all on my ass, and they were saying, oh, yeah, you don't know about Herb Jones. And if you think Devante and CJ are going to play

at the same time, you're crazy about what, and I watched them last night, and you'll never believe what I saw. Devante Graham starting in the back court with C.J. McCollum, they can't defend shit and Herb Jones can only defend one player and we'll see see the way it plays out you know I'm not gonna I'm not gonna bust them up for because CJ was having to travel it's all new there's always always an adjustment level especially when you're adding it somebody as good as

McCauley you know so it's not here there but in terms of you know what I thought it would look like and what it was. I mean, they got to figure out the defense thing, man. They got to figure out the defense thing. They got to figure that out. They got one Herb Jones. And I don't know. Like, we'll see what their coach does, Willie,

Willie Green, when if you do get Zion in the mix, but this whole CJ will play point guard and Ingram will play the two guard and Herb will play the three and Zion will play the four at Valchut. I mean, that's 2K shit. Most guys are going to have two guards. You know, C. J.M.com is not a point guard. I don't know what. He's never been a point guard.

Can he handle the ball? Yes, but I mean, he's not a point guard. Maybe Zion point guard. Van Gundy used that a little bit. You remember at the end that we all loved it? Maybe Zion could be the point guard. Well, he is going to be the point guard. That would be great.

He will be the point guard. But, like, I think for the Pelicans here, one of the thoughts on my mind with last night's game is, And I don't want to be too reactionary to like a strong, you know, a couple of weeks stretch for Alvarado, their backup point guard. But he's outperforming Devonte Graham. I know.

Around since mid-January, he's been outperforming. And I love him. Yeah, he's a good player. I love the energy. He brings to the court. Isn't he fun? No, you saw the mic'd up, right? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, the mic'd up with, uh, uh,

dude, yeah, I shoot. Yeah, I shoot, yeah. DeAngelo Rousel, did this guy shoot? Yeah, that's fine. Yeah. Yeah. That was really good. And you remember he is the guy that a couple of weeks ago, he was all fiery and he was talking crazy to Embed and they got into it.

Yeah, his energy is great, man. And then this story kind of flew under the radar. I guess some people probably know. But, you know, he was on what is the second 10 day at the time, I believe. And Embed, they both got text. because they were like talking back and forth or whatever and getting fired up. And Embed paid his fine. He paid his tech because even though he got into him in the game, he came up to him at the game.

He's like, man, I love the way this guy plays. I love how he talks so much shit, you know, whatever. And so he said, and I know, you know, I've got the money. You know, this guy's on a 10 day right now. That's a big chunk, man, where you got to pay for a damn tech because me and him were talking crazy to each other. So he paid it, which is a nice deed for sure. Yeah, it is. I'll tell you what, like there's been a lot of stretches this season where he's looked better than Devon de Graham.

And I just wonder if that's going to shift at some point for the Pelicans, if it continues, if it continues. Like, it's a small sample size. But he's looked very good for that team coming off the bench. And maybe that's why. And I've always like, yeah, and I've always like, I've like Graham in the heater role anyway. It's what I liked in Charlotte. Oh, yeah, for sure. I mean, we'll see about this team.

Like, it's, like you said, it was night one. CJ goes six for 21 from the field. They'll have better nights. They're playing the best team in the East, too. Yeah, yeah. Jimmy, Butler was off the chart. And it was crazy. If you go back and watch some of the highlights,

I was watching the Herb thing. They had Herb, there were times where they put Herb Jones on out of bio because he was killing him. And then they had times where he was on Butler. They had times where he was on Lowry. I mean, it's like, he just, But unfortunately, there's only one of him. So it's like he's running around.

He's trying to not get put into picking rolls and switches. He's a hell of a defender, man. Yeah, for sure. And it's unfair, too, because Miami's awesome. And Jimmy Butler just closed it out last night. Because I did watch the end of that game, just to see how devastating McCollum and Graham were as a defensive back court.

And it was about what I thought. Kevin, a bit of fun trade deadline. That's for sure. Now we will get to see how all of these players perform in their new uniforms. And I'm excited to see Halliburton play in Indiana, and I'm excited to see Hardin in Philly and Simmons in Brooklyn and all these different things that we're going to get to see play out over the course of the next week or so.

It should be a really good time. And then we got the All-Star break coming up next week. Thank you to our executive producer, Jesse Lopez, as always. Kev, I'll talk to you next Tuesday. Looking forward to Chris. Have a great weekend, everybody.