The Mismatch - First Impressions After the Trade Deadline: Not Buying Into the Mavs, the Lakers' Ceiling, and More

Episode Date: February 14, 2023

Verno and KOC discuss their first impressions on some of the traded players from last week’s deadline, beginning in Dallas with Kyrie Irving and their loss to the Timberwolves (04:46). It’s hard to believe the Mavs are true contenders with all the issues they have, including their lack of defense. In moving on to the Lakers, they discuss last night’s blowout loss to the Blazers, talk about LeBron’s strange injury, and debate what is really going on with Anthony Davis (15:29). They discuss the debut of Jalen McDaniels with the 76ers and Josh Hart with the Knicks before diving into Jalen Brunson’s rising star power and Jacque Vaughn’s comments about Ben Simmons (35:01). Also, the guys talk about the nearly nixed trade with the Warriors and Blazers centered on Gary Payton II’s failed physical (48:45). *The Ringer NBA squad is coming to Salt Lake City for NBA All-Star Weekend! Get your tickets here!* Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's popping, everybody? This is Logan Murdoch from Real On I have some big news to share. On Saturday, February 18th, the Ringer NBA show will be hitting the road for All-Star weekend for a live show in Salt Lake City. You heard that right. We are taping the pod in front of a live audience in Salt Lake next month and we want you to join us. Pull up on us at the stateroom in the heart of downtown Salt Lake. You can grab your tickets now at thestateroom.com. That's the stateroom.com. Doors open at 9 o'clock. Show is at 10. It's going to be a 21 and up event. Come hang with the gang and chat, midseason updates, draft preview, and even have a Q&A with us. Space is limited, so grab your tickets while they last at the stateroom.com or click the link in the description of this show. Hope to see y'all in there.

Welcome to The Mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon and joining me see does every Tuesday from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, A.K., Kevin Obama, Kevin O'Connor, A.K.K.O.K.K.O.K.K.O.K.K. Kevin O. Kavana O. How is your Tuesday going, my friend? Everything's great. We are now past the trade deadline. We are hurtling towards the All-Star break very, very soon. A couple more games that we will watch before the All-Star break and All-Star Weekend that comes up this weekend. But what we have today is an opportunity to talk about some of our first impressions. You know, the trade deadline saw a lot of guys change jerseys, some more significant than others. But the fun part about the trade deadline and when there is a tremendous amount of activity is that then when you're flipping on league pass, you're seeing all of these guys now playing for their new teams and for sure get a new impression of them. It takes a while for things to come together. And a lot of these teams don't have very much time for it to come together. So let's just kind of dive into it.

The biggest fish was Kevin Durant, and we're not seeing him yet, okay? But the first huge news surrounding the trade deadline. Isn't it still weird to see him wearing that practice jersey, though? Like, that's taken a little getting used to. I'll tell you what's weirder. What's weirder is everybody talking about Phoenix and that huge deal and talking about Kevin Durant like in the present tense and, you know, that they're now the way. West favorites or you've got to put them up at the top of the West.

And somewhere along the way, it never was like part of the story that he's not playing right now. You know, like it was kind of like, oh, yeah, Kevin Coran got traded. And then you just expect that you're going to be able to flip on the suns and see what the suns look like. But there is a maximum amount of games that they're even going to get to play together before we see them in very high-stakes basketball. basketball and who knows what Durant is going to look like when he first comes back.

Usually when he comes back from anything, he looks like Kevin Durant and he's good to go. But with this particular injury and the fact that he has had some knee issues before, it's surely worth monitoring how it kind of holds up when he does try to come back because they'll have what, probably 20 games, less than 20 games. then they'll be going straight into playoff basketball. You've got these other teams that are trying to figure it out. Usually, you know, teams, you try to figure it out at the beginning of the season, even when they threw together the heedles, even when we saw Chris Paul and James Hardin,

whoever, like there is an amount of time that it takes to get used to the new way you're going to play with another great player on the team. And so one that we were wanting to hone in on for sure is Dallas. and seeing what it looks like with Luca Donchich in need of help, getting help in the form of Kyrie Irving. I flip it on last night and they're getting stomped. And I'm like, well, this isn't going well. I think they're down 18 by the time I flipped the game on.

And then I kept it on. I was like, you know, I know they're down like 20 going to the fourth, but you never know. maybe they clamp down, maybe somebody catches a heater. So I just kind of left it on. And I'm glad I did because Kyrie Irvin went absolutely nuclear in that fourth quarter. They ended up coming up short. It was not enough to overtake Minnesota. But you saw a small bit of the fact that they've got two guys now that could do this to you at any given moment.

I kind of left it thinking, though, man, you're going to have to get that to happen a lot in unison, Kev, because they are small and they are crap on defense. They're going nowhere in the playoffs. 124 points to Minnesota, 133 to Sacramento. I mean, I think their offense is going to be an absolute juggernaut with Luca and Kyrie. If those guys click on the, you know, a 10 out of 10 level, they're still developing chemistry. you know, they're sending doubles at those guys early in the game. Part of the reason why Minnesota built a lead, there's going to be some adjustment in terms of figuring out the chemistry there

and how those guys are going to work together and maximize each other. But you're right. Like when one or both of those guys get hot, they're impossible to stop. No matter what you're doing on defense, no matter what Minnesota did in that fourth quarter, you know, as good as Anthony Edwards and McDaniels were all game long, they were fantastic as they have been for quite a while now.

it doesn't matter when an offensive player gets that hot. I just don't think that Dallas team, everybody talks about them as some sleeper contender. I don't see it, Chris. I don't think they're big enough. I don't think they have enough bodies on defense. This team is built to score a lot, not built to get a ton of stops. Even right now, like they have Dwight Powell, Javale McGee, were playing ahead of Christian Wood this past week. Wood played 23 minutes last night against Minnesota had another great game.

It's just a weird mix right now. They're trying to figure out these different combinations since Christian Wood isn't your, you know, he's not an anchor on defense. They're trying out Powell. McGee hasn't worked. I just feel like they're throwing darts trying to figure out their defense and they're not going to end up with answers. Well, and it's going to be fascinating to see how they play too

because these are getting up and down the court, flying up and down. And one of the things that I've always found to be very difficult rooting against Luca is that he just controls the pace. You're playing the game at whatever pace he wants to play that game. And it feels like they're going to have to outscore people because they're not going to be able to get enough stops. And I don't think it behooves them to play more half-court basketball simply because of the personnel.

I mean, they were already bottom 10 in the NBA in defense. And they lost their best on-ball defender in Dorian Finney Smith. And he's not replaced. with anything. And so, I don't know, man. Like, it almost felt to me last night, especially when Kyrie went off, like a worst defensive version of what I saw with the Nets,

where it is going to be these two just extraordinarily brilliant offensive players. And then you hope the other guys can knock down open threes that it's around them. So you're going to have to have Tim Hardaway, Jr., knocked down open threes and Reggie Bullock and the rest of these guys. But you saw even with Gobert last night for all his foils, I mean, they couldn't do anything with him in terms of keeping him off of the glass. They finally got him off the court by spacing it out in that fourth quarter.

And, you know, Finch decided to just go small against them. but there were segments of that game. Chris, I just want to interject. I don't think Minnesota did that because Goberra was getting exploited, though. I think that for Minnesota was about, you know, also about the offense event. Kyle Anderson was playing really well. It was about spacing on offense from Minnesota, I felt, too, to give them a little bit of juice, too. I'm that Goberra.

Offense, I mean, he should be the advantage. You could just throw him the ball every time. He's got a six-foot guy on him. Yeah, I mean, we know that Gobert is not going to knock that guy, though. however though I mean he was all you have to do is turn and dunk yeah he was perfect yeah that's not his game though he was perfect in the game though nine of nine him and mike conley conley already making such a difference for go bear on offense their pick and roll chemistry looks just as good as it has been the last two years in utah

per second spectrum there scoring 1.27 points per pick and roll when conley and gobert link up together that's best mark of the entire year for the minnesota timberwolves with go as a screener. Already it's an upgrade from DeLo and I mean, Anthony Edwards as well. I mean, that dude is playing like a top 15, top 20 guy right now. Well, in the defense, at the end

of the game, him and McDaniels. Oh my goodness. In unison. Ferocious. I mean, that's handcuffs. Handcuffs. Yeah. Even some of the shots, Kyrie was hitting where it was Ant or, I mean, it was different guys to Finney Karee. Austin Rivers at times, Anderson, a couple, you know,

Anthony Edwards sometimes, no matter who it was, Sometimes they still had really good contests on Kari Irving, and yet he was still, you know, drilling shots. You know, I love Kyle Anderson. I've gotten to know him and gotten to root for him for four years prior to that. What a great free agent signing for them. He has saved their ass this year. Oh, he's been so good.

Especially in the absence of towns. He has been so good and so essential. And last night hits two huge shot down the stretch. And also, you know, that the pickpock of Luca with the whole game on the line. Crazy. Kyle Anderson's been amazing for them this year, kind of holding that thing all together

and being able to withstand some of the injuries and some of the controversy that has gone on because he's just a good all-around basketball player. He can do everything well. He just does it all slow. Yeah. I mean, his nickname going back to college. His nickname going back to college.

was slow-mo. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he doesn't, he doesn't, he does it all well, though. And again, it's a first impression. I just feel like Luca and Kyrie are going to have to score so many points. And I just don't know if they can play that way and win 130 to 125, you know. You got, you got bad defense, bad depth, bad coach. You're not winning anything in the postseason.

Yeah, they can't, and they can't play those two and Wood together with. without giving up 150 points it doesn't feel like. I just don't see it with Dallas. I don't see it. I don't see a championship formula. Like I see second round upside. Maybe they sneak into a conference finals, but there's no way in hell of this team is winning the NBA finals.

There's no chance. It's just such a weird situation top to bottom. I mean, like, they're searching, like Jason Kidd said the other day, he's talking sarcasticly. He's like, oh, defense, you know, it's not a support. Now we're all about offense and outscoring teams. It was a very tongue-in-cheek comment from J. Kid when he said that. But it's just so strange how this team, like all year long you have Christian Wood playing very, very well on offense.

And then you make the Kyrie trade, the trade deadline hits. And he goes from playing 35, 40 minutes a night to 19, 17, 12, 18, 23. It's just such a strange, strange situation in Dallas right now that I have a hard time figuring out watching from afar what's actually going on there, why they're making some of these decisions, why Javille McGee is suddenly back in the rotation despite getting roasted early in the year, why Dwight Powell is starting games, even though he offers no spacing on offense, no interior defensive help on that end. It's just weird what they're doing there. and I don't totally understand but also I don't necessarily think that even if Christian Wood's playing 35, 40 minutes that they have enough answers on defense anyway. I think they have limited

outside. I think we've got it both on the same page. Our first impression of Dallas not great to say the least. Well, fun. Fun with the scoring, just not championship level basketball. They need a dominant interior guy for their defense and more wing

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And West Virginia, it's at 1800 gambler.com. Regarding the late game, Lakers, Portland, getting to see what they look like. Now, the Lakers, with their new-look team, minus LeBron, not very impressive, certainly not very impressive, going up against Damien Lillard, who tried 30 in the first half of their ass. And then you have this,

Anthony Davis frustration that like boils up again and then there's a story that comes out by the morning about him deleting his Instagram and I don't know I don't know what to make of it you know my producer on my show today he said he was like I would not be surprised he's like

did you see the video and I did see this I think you probably saw too remember when he didn't get up and celebrate whatever but there was also that video of like LeBron, like, putting his arm around him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know I love you.

You know I love you and whatever. And I had not thought about this. And I haven't heard people bring this up. My producer was saying, I bet he heard they shopped him. And I was like, now that would make sense. That's what that tweet said. Someone said, like E.D. said, you know,

they're trying to trade me. But I listen to that a hundred times. And I can't, I couldn't hear anything in there about. You think about the way this is all played out. Not being into it with the rest of the guys and happy about the LeBron thing. LeBron doing the, you know I love you, you know I love you. Then you get the whole like deleting of Instagram and being upset about the whole thing. Like something happened and I, you know, he said the other night, he tried to make you go away.

You know my relationship with Braun and you guys were making a deal of this. I was just mad because we were losing to the thunder. blah, blah, blah. And it's like, man, something is up. Something, something is up. And obviously he's very frustrated. They lose that game. And something like that game,

like that's one of their peers that's going to be fighting for these play-in spots. Like, they need to beat teams like the Blazers. And likewise, the Blazers need to be able to beat teams like them. And I think there was some sentiment that LeBron was going to play in these last two before the All-Star break. And then he didn't play last night.

And then there's this, it's his foot. And then the Lakers, I think, reported it as an ankle. But then there's other people reporting it's his foot. But then there's other people saying he's going to be a participant in All-Star weekend. And he'll be there at the All-Star game. And it's like, what the hell is going on here? Like, what do you mean he's going to be in the All-Star game?

Like, he's not playing in these games against critical games that, like, his team needs to win if they're going to be able to have a shot at the play in? And like, how does he know is? I don't know. They want to, like, over the weekend, it's like his foot is more serious than it was let on. There's people saying he's really playing through injury and his foot really hurts. Okay. Cool.

I accept it. And so then the next game he doesn't play. But then I hear like, yeah, he's going to, yeah, he's going to be at the All-Star games. How do you know his foot's going to be okay by Sunday? Like you're just going to play the whole story? Why isn't he playing in these games? I'm just so confused about the whole damn thing. What do you make of it?

They also play way too many three-guard lineups. You think? Yeah, I mean, that's just another thing I'm throwing out there too. There's a whole lot of issues from the Lakers. I mean, look, I think with L.A., man, we can't judge what their upside is until LeBron James is back on the floor. That goes without saying. Without LeBron James, one of the ten best players in basketball,

it's hard to judge what the upside of the team is and what the actual relevancy is of the new additions that they made. But in some of these games, you can still look at Anthony Davis and say, he's either loafing out there, moping, sad, or playing through some injury still. That's limiting his play. He looks like he's not as quick,

as fluid offensively. Defensively, he's not making that all-work. impact that he did earlier in the year when he was playing like a top 10 guy. And that's the major source of concern that I have here with Anthony Davis. What level is he actually going to be playing at here? Because all year long, even going back to last season for that matter, Chris, Russell Westbrook deserved a heck of a lot of blame with the Lakers. But 80 last year was not the same guy he was during their run to a championship.

He's not the same guy this year. He continues to either get hurt or have to play through injury. and the mentality that he plays with as well, whether it's influenced by physical issues or what, it's just not at a level of the Lakers need to climb back into the playing tournament, never mind the playoffs. They need AD. I mean, I don't know, Kim.

Look at the guy's numbers. So it's just not indicated by his numbers? It's not like he's having some cramps easy. He started an all-star game. Yeah, I know. Yeah, because he was unbelievable earlier in the season. And then he was really good even last week. But then he's...

Even last week, so I mean, we're just talking about last night. Yeah, but like it goes week to week with AD. Like, he's dominating last week. And then this week, he can't out hustle, outplay Eubanks. Again, they're winning as the Warriors. He was only 5 for 19 from the field. He was a poor scoring performance for him. He's got completely punked by Janus last Thursday, the night of the deadline,

completely punked by Janus. Like, he's just not playing at the level that he needs to. And I think, you can, yeah, you can say he was dominant, you know, in December. He was dominant in November. That's why he's an all-star. Even in early February, he was dominant. But right now he's not.

He's not right now. I don't know, man. He played 30 minutes last night. He had 19 points, 20 rebounds and three blocks. Yeah, but he's still not playing at the level. No, I'm not saying it's his fault. Those guys suck. Chris, I'm not, when did I say it's his fault?

I'm saying that he needs to elevate his play. How about the other guy needs to play? and not like make everything about the scoring record and then it doesn't feel like the season is nearly as important as the other stuff. Both things can be true. You know, I'd be mad.

Both things can be true. And he might have tried to trade his buddy. Chris, both things can be true. What? And why would they not try to trade Anthony Davis when whatever issues he's having continue to plague him? We don't even know if that's true.

We have no idea if that's true. I've personally heard no indication of that. I mean, I wouldn't trade him because he's averaging 26 and 12 on 56% from the field. I mean, he's played 43 games or whatever it is. I mean, you can box or watch if you want, but. I mean, the guy almost had 20 and 20 last night, Kevin. What are we talking about? He's the problem. I never said it's the problem. You can continue to take my words out of context or you can reply to what I said. That is what you said. They need Anthony Davis to be better. then 20 and 20 Yeah, if LeBron, yeah, like I said, you can box score watch or watch Eubanks completely punk him last night, Yannis punkum last week.

I mean, I don't look at the Lakers and them throwing this together and sit there and say Anthony Davis is my big problem. I'm not saying he's the big problem, Chris. I'm saying he's one of the problems. And without LeBron James out there, you expect more from him.

The other issue I mentioned the three-guard lineups. You don't have enough size on defense, puts more responsibility on the Lakers, put more responsibility on him as the five out there to have to get stops. He needs more help too. Darwin-Ham probably needs to play fewer of these three-guard lineups as well. There's a lot of issues for the Lakers right now. I mean, look, DeAngelo Russell, Troy Bound Jr., Hachimura, Dennis Schroeder, I wouldn't want any four of those guys starting for my team.

Literally. You wouldn't want D-Lo starting for your team? No. You want to talk about box scores? The guy's been averaging like... No. No? He has never been a winning player to me.

He would be a... I think he'd be an outstanding backup. But, I mean, I don't think that DeAngelo Russell's ever going to be the starting point guard on an awesome team. I would be surprised. You know, I mean, I watched him get bench in the playoffs last year. And you're going to laugh at me here. I already... I'm prefacing what I'm about to say.

You're going to laugh. laugh at me here. The other thing the Lakers need to consider here is putting 80 at the four and having him be in the Robert Williams role that we saw in Boston last year, and they need to have either Bamba or Vanderbilt at the five. By putting 80 at the four, you allow him to roam more on defense, be more of a disruptor and still maintain some size and room protection inside, whether that's from Bamba or whether that's from Vanderbilt. So I think for the Lakers here, when Bamba returns, that's something they should experiment with, with less of those, you know, three-guard lineups, maintaining size, putting AD at the four.

The Celtics last season, when they did that with Robert Williams and Al Horford, granted different types of players, different levels of players, that elevated their defense. So I think for the Lakers here, that's something that they're going to have to do once they get Bamba back. But LeBron coming back is the main thing. Like, that's obviously the main thing. They have to get him back. But there's a long list of problems here for the Lakers. And I also, I mean, there's nothing any defense could do.

compared to what the Blazers did in that game last night. Nearly 50% from three. Matisse Thibel having one of the best shooting nights of his entire career. Damien Lillard, completely unstoppable. There's nothing you can do about Damien Lode when he's playing at that level. He's having, Dames having arguably the best regular season of his entire career. And this comes a year after we thought,

oh, this abdomen injury is this going to limit him? No, he's better than maybe he has ever been ever before. And I think for the Blazers, they just shot the shit out of it. Matisse Theible, obvious mismatch listener. This is what goofed on him last week. Four for six from three. That is not what we thought he'd be bringing to the table. And I could not help but laugh last night because I had the Knicks on against the Nets.

Josh Hart also shooting threes. I think he was four for six in their game. Josh Hart was banging threes on one channel. and Matisse Tybal banging threes later in the night. And I'm like, hold on a second now. Thival, like the non-shooters, knocking down four threes. And Josh Hardoo wasn't shooting threes at all ever in Portland is now knocking down threes for the Knicks.

You figure it out. But, hey, Thibble going to go in there. If Thuyah was going to go in there and knock down four for six threes, you might as well just get in the car and go home. Yeah. You got a big problem. I think the other thing the Lakers need to do is with Anthony Davis, having him bulk up, that's what sapped him of his burst.

I know you're so impressed by the numbers, but he just doesn't have the same fluidity, the same quickness that he had in the past. And I think that's the other thing they're going to have to consider as well, is do we want 80 to be bulked up like this? Do we want him heavier or do we want him leaner? I mean, look, I'm just defending him because this is the same shit that goes on with literally every player that's ever played with LeBron, everybody. every good player.

It's the worst gig in the world. Rasillo did a whole pod on this. It really is. Because when you're good, you're good. And LeBron gets all the credit. And then when you're bad, you get all the blank. And it's happened with Kevin Love. It's happened with Chris Boss.

It's happened with Dwayne Wade. It's happened with Kyrie Irving. It's happened with everybody that's good that plays alongside. So that's why I'm a little sore about the Davis stuff. It's because, like, look at the rest of that team that's there. And when it's LeBron and putting up those numbers, you don't say, I don't call you box score watcher. You sit there and go, so LeBron's fault he at 30 and 8. What do you want him to do?

It's all these shit players with him. You always do that. Literally always. Every time I blame LeBron, that's what you say. With Anthony Davis, it's not LeBron's fault that his shot fell apart, he's shooting below 30% for three, for three straight years, or that he's not the same level impact defensively, or he plays only. only a third of his games. I mean, with Anthony Davis, these have been things with AD going back to New Orleans, Chris.

This is nothing new. We've been talking about AD the same way for 10 years. This has nothing to do with LeBron James. Zero. Nothing. Nothing. The point is what? What doesn't have to?

Nothing to do with LeBron James. Has everything to do with Anthony Davis, and it's been the same conversation going back to what he was up. Here's what it has to do with it, Kevin. Anthony Davis, like everyone else. There's no one that has played with LeBron that we end up thinking higher of unless they're a role player. There's nobody we think higher up. And in fact, most of the time when they leave, we think higher of them.

What's your opinion of Cusma right now? It's a lot higher than it was when he was playing with LeBron. What's your opinion of all those guys? I don't think that's necessarily true with Chris, Chris Bosch. I think Josh. With Bosch, he put up much bigger numbers with Toronto. Oh, my God. But then in Miami.

killed. But then I know he did, but I wasn't on NBA podcast at the time. I wasn't in sports media at the time. I wasn't on sports media at the time. I'm talking about me as a Celtics fan at the time. I gained new respect for Chris Bosch when I was watching those Celtics heat battles over the years. Because Chris Bosch became a three-point shooter. He started knocking down corner threes out of nowhere from Miami in the conference finals.

He started playing the five for them. He started doing the things that were necessary. Part of the reason why the league has changed the way it has was because of Chris Bosch's evolution. So I wasn't in sports media at the time, one of the people blaming Bosch. I was a Celtics fan getting pissed off because Chris Bosch was dominating my team. So I don't think it's necessarily true. Just because these narratives and the way media talks about these things, I don't think

that's necessarily true. I was more impressed with Chris Bosch the way he evolved in Miami than compared to what he was in Toronto where I thought he was a great player, an all-star, big numbers guy. but he started having championship qualities while he was in Miami. So I don't agree there with Bosch. You might say that with other guys with Kevin Love, maybe. You can say that fit in, don't fit out. You might be able to say that with Cairo Irving.

I don't think so with Dwayne Wade either. Those guys were he rightfully took a back seat behind LeBron James and still dominated doing all the things that he had to do. Those Heidel teams were amazing. I don't think that's true with Miami at all, especially not with Bosch, from my perspective in my pre-sports media days. all of those lists that would come out. If you were talking about Chris Bosch was,

and look, he was not going to be the best player on a title team, but people thought more highly of Bosch as, I mean, just because of his role, he was the third guy. When you go to Miami and you're the third guy, you're not going to be thought of as highly, just like Kevin Love. Again, same kind of thing, actually, because Kevin Love was putting up 20s and 20s in Minnesota. I mean, he wasn't going to win anything.

Bosch was winning more in Toronto than him. But, I mean, the numbers were big time for Bosch and Love. And they're making all-star teams. And even if they were on not so good teams, you know, it's just like Ray Allen. When Ray Allen was the man playing for the Sonics, people thought more of them than they did when he was playing with Garnett and Pierce. Doesn't mean he isn't great for evolving and turning into something different. But when you're the guy, when you're the best player on a team. Did people really think less, people thought less of Ray Allen when he was in Boston?

I'm saying you think the most of a guy when he's the first option. That's just always true. Yeah, I mean, I guess to an extent. I mean, every team has different needs in terms of what's necessary to impact winning. And with those Celtics teams in the late 2000s, you know, KG, Paul Pierce, and Ray Allen, they all mutually agreed how much those guys were going to have to sacrifice. I mean, Ray Allen still could have put up 25 points per game when he went to Boston, but he didn't. He decided to take, you know, what was it, six, seven, eight less shots per game because that's what he had to do to win. No, it's noble, for sure.

Makes him a winning player, makes them a great player, and it makes people, you know, these guys are Hall of Famers. I'm just saying when you are the man, someone is always going to think, you know, those guys were getting a lot more accolades. I mean, let's be honest. The main issue with the Lakers is health, like LeBron or like desire, whatever it is. whether it's desire to play through stuff or whether it's health, like if the LeBron injury is legitimately more concerning. I don't know if I said this on this show or what with you, Chris,

or if we were just texting, but January 30th, someone told me that LeBron's injury is more serious than people believe. So that's like a source that I'm not sure the level of, you know, trustworthiness, but it is interesting that I was hearing that back in late January when I'm not like the most tied in,

I'm not Chris Haynes with clutch. I'm not Shams with clutch, one of those guys. But it is interesting that I was hearing that. You can look at that one of two ways. You can say, I'm hearing that because it was trickling out that it actually is a more serious issue, or I'm hearing that because they're just laying the groundwork for him just to sit out once he gets past the record,

and he's going to act hurt at the end of the game just to set up, you know, not playing. It's one of those two things. We'll find out after the All-Star break. When him and AD gets some rest, that's when it's really going to matter and we're actually going to be able to fully judge this new look Lakers team when they have all of their guys back, you'd think. Is it fair to say if he is seriously hurt?

If it is worse, which has been reported, and you said you heard a long time ago, that there's absolutely no way he should be playing in an All-Star game. Oh, yeah, for sure. I agree. If he is actually hurt, yeah. And yet they have already said he's planning on playing in the All-Star game. Yeah. So I guess he knows that that's going to heal by then.

Pretty strange. Pretty strange. Is there any chance he plays Wednesday? Yeah. Pelicans? Is there a chance of that? Everybody said he was going to be playing like at least the LA reporters were acting like he was going to play the two before the All-Star game.

Okay. So maybe he'll play the one. So he's supposed to play Wednesday against the Pelicans then. Yep. Okay. Boy, that was a weird one too. Speaking of the Pelicans, your Pelicans. Flip it on last night and crunch time seeing Josh Richardson out there,

I mean, I guess I was wrong. I thought they had just detained Josh Richardson. I guess they needed him. He's out there. He's out there on the court, like with the game on the line and making super-hedy plays for them when it mattered most. You know, they've got some young guys out there, Trey Murphy, and, you know, he really can't, you know, he doesn't have ballot chunis ever out there, really, with the game on the line, usually. But, yeah, Josh Richardson out there, another guy. And I know you wanted to mention the Sixers, McDaniels,

which is kind of the other side of the whole Thibald decision. What do you make of the McDaniels deal on the first impression? I mean, it's kind of funny saying this after Thibel has, you know, a hell of a shooting performance, and he's flying around everywhere on defense for the Blazers last night, you know, with their wings, Cam Reddish, I see her little playing 28 minutes. And, I mean, they looked great last night, Portland did.

But for Jaylon McDaniels with Philadelphia, a pretty clear upgrade, I think, so far, based off their needs, what they need from that position. He's a three-level scorer, scoring at the rim, pulling up from mid-range, banging threes, and still making an impact defensively. To me, he's a pretty clear upgrade for Philadelphia with what they need on both ends.

The next next, all right, two things here. First, Tibado's in love with Josh Hart as we knew he would be, talked about his competitive spirit. Guys just got a winning competitive spirit. And that has worked out famously. I mean, Brunson has his unbelievable 40 piece and I think Hard at 27. I'm a huge Josh Hart fan.

He's fit in perfectly with that Knicks deal so far. And I think the Knicks probably just going to keep on moving up the standings. It'd probably be like, they might very well be in like a four or five game or something. And they added another dog to the mix. And clearly Brunson loves having his budget. there. And they work very well together, and it was crazy to watch, as I mentioned earlier, Josh Harton hit shooting threes again. I don't understand why he was never shooting threes in Portland, but he wasn't. And he wasn't, he had gotten to be a pretty good three point shooter before that.

He had like, he was like in the, you know, mid-30s up to 40 percent from three in seasons prior. And then this year just in, it's 2023 and the guy's like not shooting threes anymore. Just kind of being a great perimeter rebounder and, you know, that kind of keep the ball moving, blue guy. But you're shooting threes again, at least in New York so far. Yeah. It's nice to see that. Small sample size, six and nine from three, which is nice. Amazing.

Yeah. Really nice. Yeah. Come on. 12. On the net side. I got to be honest. Wait a minute.

Your guy Josh Hart, Chris. The best player in America. It is nice to see him excelling. And him and Jalen Brunson, boy, oh boy, Jalen Brunson is, he's a hell of a ball player, isn't he, man? You know what? They could use him in Dallas. Yeah, right. I really could.

But you're not wrong, though, Chris. Like, he's, like, the run he's on. The run he's on, his last seven games, 37 points. It's 41, 21, 21, 25, 30, 38, 40. They have completely empowered him as the star player and giving him 20 shots a night saying, hey, Brunson, go out there and be the man. That's what they told his ass.

He wasn't an all-star. Well, and listen, though, like with Brunson, the thing is, if you look, I forget, I don't have the numbers offhand here, but statistically, he was one of the league's most efficient isolation scores and pick and roll scores for a couple of years in Dallas.

And now the Knicks, they're giving him star level usage. The efficiency numbers have not dipped. They have maintained. So I think he very well might be an example of a guy where even when given that responsibility and opportunity, the efficiency doesn't drop off. So if this is indeed the case with the Knicks and it's sustainable over the course of time, you know, he's averaging 20 plus shots since really in the new year, around since Christmas time is when they gave him that huge bump.

if that maintains, that definitely changes some things when it comes to assessing what the Knicks are and what they can be, not just this year, but in the coming years as they build this thing out. Well, and with playoff basketball, we saw Randall have the all-pro, all-NBA season, and then vomit all over himself when they got into the playoffs. Yeah.

We have seen, we don't have to wonder what Brunton's going to look. like when the stakes get higher. Because that dude did it without Luca last year. I mean, when it mattered most, he was at his absolute best.

That's how we got the $100,000 million. He was, so you don't have to worry, like, is this guy, what's going to happen? Yeah, okay, regular season points, what's going to happen when everything gets a little harder and you're in the playoffs? Like, that dude was a bucket.

He was one of the best playoff performers we watched. last season. He was better than he was during the regular season. And so it's kind of freaky to think about. What if he's even better than this? And now you pair him with Bronson, they're one of the league's best pick and roll duos statistically on second spectrum. You look at the top combinations. They're right up there. So now maybe Randall can, you know, when everything ain't focused on him to shut him down, like his all-NBA year, maybe then he can become the performer that he's been during the regular season because Brunson's the man.

They have kind of morphed this during the course of the season and it's for the betterment of that team for sure. I actually think they're going to be a tough out for one of those good teams when it gets to the playoffs. I think they're going to put the fear God into somebody if they have to face him.

Because somebody good is going to have to face it. It's because they have Josh Hart. For sure. You're a guy. They could really use him in New Orleans. Let's talk about the nets. So I wanted to see what the new look nets, and it's just, you know, as we knew,

it's a bunch of wing guys, whatever. I'm really resenting this now that I'm seeing in person. I wanted the Cam Thomas thing to keep going. I know. And it's just not going to happen. They cut us minutes and half. He's just back to the bench and going two for seven. How boring is that?

Yeah. That was super fun for like two days. Yeah. Three days, I guess. And now, yeah. Like it's like a bunch of role players all playing together that are like, you know, the Spencer Dinwiddie show, Chris. I know.

He was a lot more fun when it was the Cam Thomas show, right? I know. I like Camp Thomas a lot. We do. We love Camp Thomas. He's just fun. He's just fun. The guy's fun.

And yeah, he's just relegated now back to the bench. And there he has to, now he has to check into the game with freaking Ben Simmons. Hmm. Stuff. Jacques Vaughn's quote about Ben Simmons last night. Says it all. All right. For those that do not know, this is unbelievable.

Somebody asked him, does the lack of having stars drawing the defense around him make it more difficult to figure out the best ways to use Ben? This is what Jacques Vaughn said. It's going to be something we have work that we have to do because you just have to take a look at what the lineups could potentially look. like. You put another big next to big, then you, Ben, then you got to figure out what the spacing is around him. Then you put another playmaker next to him. Then you got to figure out what Ben

looks like without the basketball. Then you go small with Ben. Then you have to figure out, can you rebound enough with him? So the challenges are ahead of us. We'll look at them head on. We'll figure it out. We'll figure it out. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I mean, he literally outlined every scenario in which you can play Ben Simmons. It said none of them are great options. It's a way to, it would be like if you said, give me a super long-winded answer for why Ben Simmons is unplayable chat,

GBT or whatever that's called. Like, you could have just said he's unplayable. Instead, you had to come up, with like all the challenges. Like, yeah, dude, we know. So the problem is, if we play with a small guy, and then the problem is if we play with a medium-sized guy, and the problem is if we play with a big guy,

it's like, we're kind of out of options. You've kind of named the small, medium, and large-sized guys. Who exactly is he a fit with? Tough. And the challenges are ahead of us. Kevin O'Connor for Jacques Vaughn I don't know what you do

I mean well first off I think everything Jack Vaugh cry you cry well that was that was the benefit of him playing with Joel Ambide

because Joel Embed you know was the perfect teammate for Ben Simmons and Bid could space the floor he could dominate in the paint

he could protect the paint on defense he was everything that you need next to Ben Simmons and that's why those guys worked

so well together for years when Ben Simmons with the Brooklyn, my source of excitement was, wow, he's going to play with Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving. We're going to get to see Ben Simmons in the Draymond roll, dribble handoffs, pick and roll hard to the basket, Draymond Green style. Simmons has not embraced that in the slightest at all. He does scream more often. He does do more DHOs. But when it comes to everything around the basket, and this happened again last night, the last play with Philadelphia, passing on the

open layup. He still does it time and time again where he, I think there's a fear within him of getting fouled. I think that's why he doesn't roll hard to the basket, why he doesn't try these layup attempts. He's shooting worse than he ever has from the free throw line. He spends a year and a half away from the court despite having people in his life, coaches included who want him to switch shooting hands. He has the stubbornness not to do it. He has been unwilling to change over the years. I think all of the issues you're seeing, with Ben Simmons today have been self-inflicted because of his stubbornness for years going back to his time in Philly and LSU, or when Jonathan Giovanni was still running at Yahoo and said

how everybody on the Australian national team wasn't a fan of Simmons or his mentality and approach to the game. This is a Ben Simmons issue that he needs to resolve himself with his mentality and approach to the game and embracing who he really can be as a player, rather than thinking of himself as some LeBron James level player who's a victim of circumstance. No, you need to figure out who you are as a player and the things you got to do to play winning basketball. Because this guy right now, like, you're a goner. You're going to get traded this offseason to a team that views you just as a salary dump,

not as a contributor. If you're Ben Simmons, you get to figure it out, man. It's like, it's honestly really sad to see. It really is. That guy was all NBA, all defense, all. everything. You know, we talk about it. Like, the bum of all bumps.

Like, he was awesome. He was not a score, but, I mean, he could still get you 17, 18 points. I mean, it wasn't like a, and he could still go to the basket and drive. He was aggressive. He was aggressive going to the basket. Led the league in a three-pointer assists. Like, he was driving kick monster. And, like, he was driving to the basket and not fearful of getting.

followed. I genuinely think there's something like mental here. There's a mental block with Simmons here that he has not been able unable to get over more so than a physical aspect. I'm sure there is a physical element here. They go hand in hand, but ever since that happened

in Philadelphia when he passed on the open layout, he does that so much more frequently than he ever has. It shows up in the numbers. He's shooting at 43.9% from the free throw line. on 1.4 free throw attempts per game, he is not willing to draw contact with the basket

because he doesn't want to get filed and get put at the line. And that's why he's unable to do some of the things that they needed him to do, the Draymond style screen and roll, where he's in the short role, picking apart defenses as a passer or driving all the way to the rim.

He just doesn't do that. He sets screens and he, you know, dilly dallys around three point line, and that's it. it's so infuriating to watch this guy when you know what he was in Philadelphia and what he could have been in that situation with Katie and Kyrie. And now it feels like he's in basketball no man's land where this is not a situation for him. There's no lineup that works for him.

You can't play him next to Nick Claxton for the reasons Jock Vaughn said. There's no guard that you can pair him with on the team because he's unwilling to roll. And if you play small with him, he'd rather just have Claxton out there because Claxton is one of the best shot blockers in the whole league. Ben Simmons doesn't rebound or block shots like that. He's a center style player, but he doesn't play like it. And I think for Simmons right now, he needs to do a lot of self-reflection and figuring out what are the things that I need to do to be a winning basketball player moving forward,

or do I want to be out of the league? Because right now he looks like a guy that doesn't belong. Let me ask you about the trade that lasted the longest, which was a story that came down over the weekend, that the fourth. team trade that had Sadiq Bay going to Atlanta and it had Gary Payton the second going back to the Warriors and it had James Wiseman head to Detroit and then all the second round picks going to Portland, that that was possibly in peril because of a medical condition that was found by the Warriors training staff, which was said to, you know, keep him out for

months, but that he had been playing while getting shot up with Torval or whatever for Portland. And so, man, it was just a super weird story. And then you know that this happened like right at the deadline. And the main story that we talked about with it was this saving $130 million or whatever the hell it was with the Wiseman deal. So like, you're almost in this impossible situation, aren't you? Because that's what I was thinking. It's like, all right, if we say this is effed up and we nicks the trade, then James Wise is back on our roster and it's super awkward and we're going to have to pay a hundred

that's going to cost us $120 million or whatever it is in luxury tax bill. We have to have this trade go through even if it is kind of screwy. And I imagine they'll probably like, I don't know, maybe make Portland give them something else or maybe they get penalized or whatever the case may be. But I don't know. Have you talked to anybody about this? And what the hell went on here?

No, I don't know anything else is beyond what we know what's been reported here, that there's clearly a disagreement. The weird part is the Warriors mentioning how they think the league should also look into the Larian Ants deal with the Pelicans from last year, you know, bringing that back up too. Yeah, and look, I, you know, I'm a big sports collector.

I actually bought one of the things that when you go to some of these sports card shows or whatever, there's always like the guy that's got like all the old sports illustrated. And so I'll go through the box and I'll try to find like cool covers or maybe like a cover article about one. And there were three that I bought the last time I was around something like this. I got like the Dr. K one with Gooden on the front. I got the Herschel Walker where he's wearing like a million gold chains on the cover of Sports Illustrated. And then the other one was this like sad Bill Walton sitting with his knees all wrapped up on a bench. And it's the cover Sports Illustrated.

And I was like, like the cover is not that great. I just want to read this. And then I go in and I read the article. And the whole article, and imagine this. This is like obviously in the late 70s about him. suing the team and suing the doctors for the team, like in Portland, whatever. And I'm like, I couldn't help but think about it this week. I'm like, bro, there's been some kind of weird doctor crap going on in Portland for like 40 years.

I mean, the Greg Oden stuff, the Brandon Roy stuff, the Sam Bowie stuff, the Bill Walton stuff. And it's like, this is a minor as compared to some of those. But what a weird deal, man. That is so bizarre that like once upon a time the cover of Sprague. Sports Illustrated was about the medical staff in Portland. And now you fast forward and it's, you know, damn there's 50 years later and we're having a discussion about the medical staff in Portland. And there's a team bringing up other possible shenanigans.

And I don't know if you saw this, but I guess he never tweets and I had forgotten to unfollow him after he was gone from Memphis. But Justice Winslow was like, showed up on my Twitter feed. Are you going to follow players who leave the tan? Well, I just don't. You just dump them like any. No, no, no. If I don't know them.

If I don't know, I didn't know him. You know what I mean? I don't care. Like somebody like Kyle Anderson, like, of course I don't unfollow him. Like, I want to see what he's up to. I know the guy. But like, you think I care what Justice Winslow is doing in Portland? But anyway, he, do you see the story came out about this?

and Justice Winslow, who is on the team? He's on the team now, currently. Yeah, he put up the Kermit T-A-M-O-G. The Kermit, yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah. Which is the, you know, nobody asks me but, or what is it, don't mind me or whatever the Kermit emoji is? I don't know, man. I mean, Justice Wenzuela was probably like the last one.

going to to get, to say it's a medical staff fault, but he hadn't played too much basketball, but I did find it interesting that there's a guy, his team just had a possible failed trade and he's putting the Kerman emoji up.

Don't mind me! I just pulled up the tweet, just I scroll on the replies. Andre Wadala, get the eye emoji's reply in there, just seeing if there's any other players responding. No, that's the only one I see.

Iguodala with the eye emojis. Crazy, right? Interesting. Well, Kev, a couple of things real quick. We got the Zion news over the weekend. Terrible. Really terrible. At least Brandon Ingram's playing unbelievably.

Yeah, another mismatch listener. I made the Andre Ingram joke when he first came back, and now he's, I think he's scored over 25 the last, I mean, pretty much every game they've had, over the last week, and he's been like over 50% for the field, right? Yeah, every time. Ever since he made that joke.

Yeah. Josh Hart, mismatch, listener, Brandon Angram. Yeah. All those pelicans guys. Yeah. The old school pelicans guys. Yeah, Zion, and there's no light clarity on this, right?

It's like, yeah, it's going to be sometime after the All-Star break. I don't know, man. Are we even going to get this guy back for the playoffs? And what's so crazy is this all just feels like this is what the way. Are they even going to make the playoffs? Yeah, maybe not. I mean, that'd be a tough go for some of the treats I favored it. They're only, they're only.

That would be wrong. If they don't make the playoffs. The Pelicans. Oh, no. The Pelicans are currently the seventh scene. They're game back. They're three games back from the three seed. So they're three games back from the Kings for the three.

But they're only four games up from the Lakers for the 13 seed. So like, could go either way with them right now. They could plum it down out of the top ten. A team with a better future than Memphis? It can't go the wrong way. Just you wait.

Come on. For what? For what? You're going to be waiting forever. You dummy. Yeah. Okay. Only because Zion's help. Just you wait.

Hopefully Zion can get back. The Pelicans in the finals. You know, Chris, I don't know if they're even going to make the point. Yeah, well, that was all about... Hate to see it. That was all about the health of style. We can giggle or we can cry.

Oh, I forgot. Nobody else has been injured. John Moran didn't... It's nearly a laugh, but it's really a cry. No, it sucks, man, because he's the... Look, and it's virtually all these teams. But we still have... After the All-Star break, and you think about teams,

legitimately, Kevin, all joking aside, teams that would really put the fear of God into anybody. We have not seen Durant yet with his team. team. Curry is expected to be back after the All-Star break, but we don't have a timetable. He said no timetable. We don't really have a timetable on Zion, right? There's three already.

And LeBron's out right now, and there's reporting that his foot is worse than let on. So, I mean, these are all-star starters that are. are the best players on these teams and all out right now. And so it does feel like the Western Conference is going to come down to like who's who's got their guys and who doesn't. Because I think right now we've got like a question mark on we're going to get past this All Star Break. And a lot of these teams hopefully we'll get their guys back and be able.

But you're not going to have that many games to get under your belt before you get to playoff basketball. And I guess we're going to test the whole, can you just throw it together without being in a bunch of different game situations? Does talent just overcome? Sometimes it does. I mean, look at what Milwaukee's doing right now. We can't go to the whole podcast without mentioning that they're in a 10-game winning streak.

You know, Chris Middleton, you know, he's had some up and down games, but he looks like he's mostly back. He looked great the other night against the Lakers. had a really good game last week against the Miami Heat. Yannis over the last 10 games, ever since he got back, the Bucks are undefeated 10-0. He's averaging 37.3 points, 13.4 rebounds, 5.5 assists. He's a dominant force on defense.

He is having the best stretch of his entire year so far, an MVP caliber season. He is the best player in the world, and the Bucks with Middleton back. over that same exact stretch he came back the same game Janus came back

they look like the best team in basketball right now but that's it to me but that's to me that's a continuity thing and I think we saw last year we talked so much about it

with the Warriors and the Bucks and the Celtics for that matter you know with all the minutes that those guys have logged together all the wars that they've been in

and I think that's true of Denver in spades you know, in Denver. Those guys have played a lot of minutes together. It's something that Memphis obviously is betting on too, and we're going to find out if it matters, whether or not continuity matters greatly because you've got some of the best teams right now.

I think that's their advantage. Now, it may not become an advantage when you get into the playoffs. That may not matter as much. The continuity and the minutes logged and the amount of games you've been in together, may not matter as much but I mean that's we're about to find out

this talent win because Phoenix has got the they got the they got the guys I still think Boston and Milwaukee are better than everybody in the league I think you're right

like a level of their own I think I think Milwaukee to me is I just hear too many boss of people being scared about the Missoula thing

whether that's founded or not and maybe that's just Bill you know what I mean? He seems worried about the Missoula thing and what happens when you get to the playoffs and is he going to be able to be like IMEA was and make that correct. It's not just EMEA though.

It's Will Hardy. We talked about it at the time. Even before all that Udoka stuff happened last year, losing Will Hardy. Everybody I talked to had said Will Hardy was integral to some of their adjustments that were made in the postseason. And we see what he's

done this year with Utah. I mean, like, they keep trading guys away. They trade away Mitchell and Gobert. They win. They trade away Conley and Beasley and Vanderbilt. They still win. It just doesn't make a difference. You know what? I'm going to see them tomorrow night

in person. Oh, yeah? Yeah. Get ready for an L. It might be. Yeah, Walker Kessler, Rudy O'Ber, 2.0 going out there. You know, Colin Sexton's always running out of a cage foaming at the mouth every time he gets a chance to start.

Yeah, Colin Sexton's awesome. Right? So you got him? You got like, you got all these guys that are going to go hard. Yeah. And man, hey, regarding like, we always try to find out at this point the season like, who's just going to basically not quit, but like punt.

Pretty clear what we got going on in Indiana. Yeah. This weekend when they gave up 83 in the first half to Washington. I was like, okay. Maybe they'll get Wimbabayama. Wemba Yama with Tyrese Halliburton would be a hell of a deal, huh? Oh, my goodness.

If they could hit the lottery. Oh, boy. But it does feel like them, and they're the only ones that, like, it started with the Albert Day, but it's kind of like, feels like they had their mind made up for them when they went on that. I think they've won two of their last 18. So at this point, it's like that. The race at the top is pretty, pretty.

fun. There was that great double overtime game between San Antonio or Detroit the other day. San Antonio's lost 13 in a row. Poor Detroit winning that game by accident. Then Charlotte, they have 16 wins on the year. Three of them against

the sad, pathetic Hawks. I mean, my goodness. And the Hawks gave up 130 plus in all three of those games. Around 120 plus, I'm sorry. Forgive me, I've been a mistake, 120 plus in all three of those games. What an embarrassment they are. 100 what was the number 144

Mark Williams blocking that Trey Young 3 in crunch time at 144, 138 they put it 144 on the Hawks embarrassing Trey Young losing track of Gordon Hayward off of an inbound to get an open 3 then a minute later losing track of Terry Rosier on a simple cut to the basket absolute embarrassment

that team's never winning anything 144 is severe. Yeah. To the Hornets who have three wins against the Hawks this season. Three of their 16 wins. Terrible. Three of their 16 are all against Atlanta? Yeah.

That's amazing. I know. They scored 120 plus, 120 plus on all of them. Humble. All right. Well, it should be fun. We got the All-Star game coming up later this weekend. to get a all-star break. We will talk to everybody later this week. Kevin, I'll talk to you on Thursday.

Have a good one.