The Mismatch - Free Agency Shuffles, Surprise Contracts, and NBA Draft Reactions

Episode Date: August 3, 2021

KOC and Verno rejoin after the draft and the first night of free agency to discuss the big trades and deals that went down. They start in Miami, where Jimmy Butler and Kyle Lowry got excellent deals (01:19), then move on to Chicago, which L.A. favorite Alex Caruso and Lonzo Ball will now call home (06:29). They also talk about their favorite surprise contracts out of the first night (19:50) as well as their reactions to the NBA draft (31:18). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O'Connor Producer: Steve Ahlman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Full Court Fits is the Ringer's new weekly NBA video series hosted by Big Waz, a.k.a. Wazney-Lambray. Each week, we take you around the world of NBA fashion and share can't miss style choices from your favorite players and keep you up to date on the latest news and releases in sneaker culture. Waz also talks to experts like Damian Lillard's personal stylists to give you behind-the-scenes looks at how the NBA's biggest stars choose their outfits. New episodes drop every Friday, so make sure you're subscribe to the Ringer's YouTube channel at YouTube.com slash The Ringer, so you never miss an episode. Welcome to The Mismatch. I'm Chris Varnan.

Join me as he does every Tuesday from The Ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, A.K., Kevin O'Bomber, A.K., Kevin O'Connor, Kevin O'Connor, Kavanaugh, Kevin O'Kee and Kevin O'Brien, Kevin O'Brien, Kevin O'Blessarian, Kevin. Berto! Wow! Free agency! What's up? Free agency has begun. It has been a long time since we have spoken, as we didn't have a show on Friday. And now, by the time we reconvene, free agency and the NBA began yesterday. And there was a ton of movement.

My first inclination is to say that the story of the opening of free agency was the Miami Heat. Do you agree with this? I mean, they signed Butler to the max. They signed Kyle Lowry, who was kind of the big fish in what was not a massive free agent class. They re-signed Duncan Robinson. And then the surprise of the night, adding PJ Tucker, which nobody really saw coming and there wasn't really a connection there. But the heater probably at top of mind and a team

that seriously, I think, moved the needle for themselves for the upcoming season. 100%. I mean, I think you nailed it there, Chris, because originally when we're talking about the idea of the Miami Heat getting Kyle Lowry. There was the stuff out there about maybe Lowry and De Rosen and De Rosen still hasn't signed yet, so we'll see where he goes. But part of the worry was that

who would they be losing to make all this happen? Would they have to lose Duncan Robinson? No. The answer was no. They are able to return one of the best shooters in basketball, now who can be in a back court with a point guard and Kyle Lowry who, it's not like heat culture needs.

any more toughness and grit from Lowry and Tucker, but them having that kind of organically the way they play and bringing it there, in addition to other stuff, Lowry isn't just the guy who takes charges or drives to the basket or facilitates. He's a really good shooter himself, both off the catch, off the dribble, coming off screens, regardless of the action. So for Eric Spolster now,

Miami's half court offense so often ran stagnant in past couple years. But now with Kyle Laurie, they're going to have a level of creativity they didn't have before. And you factor in the possibility of Bamatabio getting a little bit better, continuing to extend his jump shot range. If you factor in, you know, Tyler Hero after struggling as a sophomore, getting back on track to what he did during his rookie season during that bubble run, maybe Tyler Hero takes a mini leap as well. This heat roster, you know, adding Tucker 2 just feels really complete, Chris.

Like they still get to add some Minutum guys, you know, to round out the bench. But this feels like a really deep, complete roster overall. Well, and we are going to see who is sacrificed, but we were talking about Duncan Robinson. You wondered, especially during the season, you know, does it cost you Tyler Hero? maybe who I know had a down second year, but certainly I and many others still have belief in.

Didn't cost you Robinson, didn't cost you a hero, probably cost you, what, Kendrick none? And it could cost none, yeah. Okay.

That's it. Which you're okay with because you got Kyle Lari. Right? And, and Dragic. We'll see what happens. And Preciousa,

had to go back to Toronto as well and the deal. That's right. So, I mean, we'll see what happens with them with losing a couple of guys, But, I mean, all in all, you look at their roster. And if I'm throwing out, and let's just say I have Robinson as my fifth guy or hero as my fifth guy, whatever.

But I'm throwing out there, Kyle Lowry, Jimmy Butler, PJ Tucker, and Bam out of bio. I mean, good luck. You know what I mean? Look, you might win, but you'll be beat up and it's not going to be fun. Right? I mean, that's got to Rottweilers. I mean, like, you don't know if that team's going to be able to beat the Brooklyn Nets, you know, with whatever, like looking way ahead to the playoffs here. You know, like playoff series is so hard to project right now. These rosters aren't done. There'll be more moves made this off season. There'll be more moves made during the season. But like this heat team, it's a given that they will be tough. Whether they win a series or they lose in five or six. This team is built, you know, top to bottom to be a tough out. And, and like,

that Kyle Lowry, Jimmy Butler backcourt, I would assume like team chemistry is going to be at a high level too with those two guys. They're there. They're BFFs. So Kyle Laurie and Jimmy Butler playing together. That's going to add some nice balance that heat offense to instead of always, you know, needing Butler to be an initiator. Sometimes maybe he can be a finisher. And not only that, like we could see with Bam out of bio having the ability to handle the ball and create the way he does, like there's some room for some real positionless battle. basketball here with the heat with losing Lowry as a screener,

Baltimore as a screener, you know, guys being interchangeable in different positions on the floor, the heat could suddenly look from a stagnant offense at times in the half court to a pretty dynamic one just because of the piece and Kyle Lowry that was added. So we talk about these teams moving the needle. And of course, they were in the finals two years ago,

took a big step backwards last year and was not a great season. But now they're right back in it. And they're certainly going to be on the list of, legitimate title contenders after what took place yesterday. Not a legitimate title contender, but certainly a lot more fun to flip on throughout the season is going to be the Chicago Bulls, who went and added Lanzo Ball,

and they added Alex Caruso, really without sacrificing anything that mattered to me. I mean, it's Satiransky, Garrett Temple, a pick. You know, I told you a couple of weeks ago, I'd be surprised at the Pelicans let Lonzo go.

And that was only because I had read this article where Ingram and Zion were effusive in their praise about Lonzo, talked about wanting to build with Alonzo going forward. and very hopeful that he would get paid. They were obviously friends and fans of this guy. And it was my thinking that, all right, like the coaching thing has already been a massive screw-up regarding Zion. He's already going to be on a third coach.

So at least maybe some stability roster-wise and the guys that he likes, like maybe even if you didn't, foresee a circumstance where you wanted to bring back Galanzo at the number, which isn't a terrible number, by the way, you would just say, look, like we've kind of screwed around with this whole Zion first couple of years. We can't screw around anymore. And if we get rid of a guy that he really wants on the team, this could have a poor effect on us.

And so I was surprised, honestly. I really thought they'd bring him back. And I mean, obviously a loss for the Pelicans not to have Lonzo back. It didn't work with him. I can understand wanting to shake it up and change things there. But for the Bulls here, with Lonzo Ball, now it's Zach Levine and that back court. You know, Alex Caruso adding him, one of the better defensive wings in the league. They still have Vuccivic, you know, in the paint.

But like, there's no doubt this offense is going to be dynamic and it's going to be fun to watch and they're going to score a lot of points. The question is going to be, can they get enough stops? And without the, you know, great point of attack defenders, having Lonzo ball, who's great off the ball, great away from the ball, super dynamic. He's a playmaker on the ball is not a lockdown guy. Zach Levine has never been a lockdown guy. Adding a guy like Caruso's report, having Patrick Williams take another step forward, now entering a second season is going to be critical. I wonder if this team has enough defense to be more than like a six seed or a playing team

because the east is still strong up top. I mean, do you feel like this Bulls team is just kind of destined for towards the middle? And is that okay though? Because like you're a big market team. And if you have nice young players and maybe you're the team that suddenly the next star wants to go to, like, is that okay? Yeah, here's what I would say.

I would say you have built out to where you figure out what your team is at the absolute worst. You've got more good players that have value. So if you look at it and you say, all right, the best version of us might not be with a center that takes a lot of shots that is a, right? DeVosovich type. Maybe he's not the ideal fit with these kind of guys. Well, there's teams that will line up to trade for him, right? same thing goes with Lanzo. Caruso is going to have value.

I look up and down and I say, all right, even if I don't know what the ceiling is or what I expect these teams to do, I sit there and say, all right, are you improving your roster up and down the line to where if it doesn't take in the way that you want it to, that you have malleability, that you can move this stuff in order. to improve. And so I am for, if you are not one of these teams, there was nothing the Bulls were going to do that were going to get them to be a top three seed in the Eastern Conference. All right. That wasn't happening. And so what is your goal? Your goal to me is accumulation of talent. And I think they took a step forward in the accumulation of talent. Meanwhile, you know,

you look on that on that on that pelican side and i just wonder i mean maybe they believe a lot in nick nekeel who i liked maybe uh kira lewis you know who they drafted last year but i mean you're not rolling in there with satyransky as your starting point guard on that team that seems that seems ludicrous to me and the other thing is you know if you are i i just i would have figured you could gotten more back if you're signing and trading Lonzo anyway, you know, like something I really want in the deal. Well, I mean, you saw they gave up a 2022 lottery protected first round pick for the Vante Graham. Like that to your point, you're, you answer you would have been hoping for, right? Yeah. I mean, I would have gotten something, right? To somebody that want,

that really wants Lonzo won the team. Um, I just, I think that you have, maybe it doesn't all fit, but to me, it's a better problem to have, to have Levine and Lonzo and Caruso and Kobe White. And then, like, okay, what does this mean for all these guys? How are we going to play all these guys together? Like, you can thin out the roster and you can improve other areas because these guys are assets. And so, yes, you try to be the best team you can, but you also are dealing with asset accumulation when you're not a team that is going to ease. easily make this leap to one of the top seeds in the conference. I mean, with the Pelicans, that's kind of the, yesterday I tweeted out, what a bummer it is. You go from thinking about targeting Chris Paul or Kyle Laurie to thinking about Spencer

Dinwiddie or Devante Graham and then you land Tomas Atteransky in a trade. And a bunch of Pelicans fans are pissed at me like free agency's not over. Like, what are you saying trying to go from taking somebody? I'm not wasn't that wasn't like a hot take statement. It was just like what a bummer. Like you go from these star players to getting Sateransky in a deal and return for Lonzo. I mean, they did sign. Well, we react in the moment.

Yeah. I mean, so guess what? You know what I mean? You know, as they say, if it's, if it's sugar, sugar, if it's is sugar, if it's isish, it's and right now, you react to what is going on in the moment. Of course. If they swing a deal and they take Brandon Ingram and a bunch of other. stuff and they swing it for Damian Lillard and they end up with him,

then guess what? We'll be the first one to say, wow, oh my God, look at what they did. But as it stands right now, that team is not better? I mean, how is it? How are they better? They're different. You know, they traded away, you know, some of the defensive presence that Lonzo ball brings and in return essentially get more offense and in the form of shooting.

That's not what they needed. It's not what they needed. And I'm a Valatunis guy. But Valetunis, isn't a great fit next to Zion. Better than Stephen Adams, but not like the perfect fit. It's better than Stephen Adams in that he is,

might be able to stand out a little bit more. Yeah. Hit some mid-range. Maybe they have him shoot some more threes. Maybe, but not a better fit in Stephen Adams in that he needs shot. Yeah. Stephen Adams doesn't need shot.

How would you rank like Valen-Junis' defense? passable, would you say? I think the Grizzlies were very fortunate in terms of, and they made this decision probably despite the fact of who their opponents were. But they played against Golden State in order to get into the thing, right? And Golden State had absolutely no answer for him. He created such a massive advantage

and an advantage that they couldn't necessarily take advantage. of on the offense event as much, right? And then they played a team that plays a true center and wants to play a true center and brings in a center for another center in Derek Favors. And so the things, the Valentin is getting played off the court as he would have if you're facing the clippers. If you're facing a lot of these teams, you know, that didn't come up in the same way. He was still able to provide the advantage.

But there's no question. You get to playoff basketball. He's not the guy. I mean, they played him like they played Brooke Lopez in Milwaukee, which is where the coach came from. You know, they played a lot of drop coverage. He's never coming out past the three-point line. And so if you have a team that can really make you pay for a guy that doesn't leave the paint,

then, I mean, that's just that that's not the defender he is. He's not going to be up there and showing out a pick and roll and sprinting back and contesting something at the rim. He's not going to be a guy that's out there at the three-point line, you know, contesting something. I mean, he is, he's an old school five. That's what he is. You know, and there are limitations to that with the way people play nowadays. Now, I will tell you, he is as good a low post scorer as there is in the entire league. You give him the ball.

He is a bucket. But they got Brandon Ingramman Zion next to him. Like, where do you fall in on that pecking order? I mean, he was, he was a leading shot taker or a second leading shot taker on many nights. Part of this is, like you said about the Bulls, just bringing in some good talent. You know, isn't that part of it here for the Pelicans that you're bringing in some talent, you're biting your time, potentially waiting for a moment to strike with one of those stars who become available.

And maybe that star wouldn't have New Orleans on their list. Well, I mean, Damien Lillard, if you have four years left on your contract and come January, you're like you want out. You don't have a choice necessarily with where you go. So, for the Pelicans, I'm sure that's an element of it here. And with

Devante Graham, getting him late last night, that that's a nice player to add there. You know, with Devante Graham, he's adding some shooting for you, shoots 42% off the catch. the last two years. That's going to be important when you're running a lot of offense through Zion,

through Ingram to have a knockdown shooter off the catch who can shoot threes off of some movement actions as well. And then off the dribble, Graham isn't like some, you know, dominant, you know, super efficient three point score, but he does shoot and he can shoot off the bounce from three, which could create some situations that you're using Zion as a screener and creating that type of offense in the half court. So for the Pelicans here, I think that the fit is not necessarily like, it doesn't necessarily make them better, but makes them different. And I think that like that in and of itself does make them a more appealing team this year, even though they're nowhere near complete, nowhere near the level that they need to be in terms of talent on the floor or competency to keep like a guy like Zion Williamson incredibly happy.

Graham's a heater. Like he's not. I can't have him in my starting to line up. He's streaky. Yeah. I want him as my Lou Williams. I want him as my Jordan Clarkson. Those guys are intensely valuable.

He could end up that. That could be the long-term plan is having DeVonte Graham as your six-man, even if he ends up starting right now. Right. But when we're talking about, like, I guess the plan is to score 160 points a game. Because he does not help you defensively either. Yeah, I don't. I think, I think the defensive improvement, that comes down to Zion and Ingram.

I really do. guys got a buy in brandon ingram i've said that's a hundred times in the pod i love that dude is a player i didn't vote for him his most improved player his first year of the pelicans because he got worse on defense he got worse on defense than what he was with the lakers i don't see how somebody who gets worse on defense can be voted most improved player the year i'm sorry and unless that improvement happens this team isn't gonna go to the level that it needs to unless zion williamson continues to get better on defense like he did last year. To his credit, effort improved, focus improved, intensity improved.

He got better individually as a defender. He still needs to get way better than he was. And unless that happens from your two young stars to two faces of the franchise, the team's not going anywhere. It's on those guys to get better. Were there any contracts that were signed yesterday that blew you away or that you were shocked by? There was only one that when it came across, because I had the alerts on, and when I scrolled, I went, what?

What? The Zach Collins one. I was like, what? Zach Collins. I mean, I just, I mean, good for him. See, that one didn't make, see, it's funny. Like you said, that one didn't make me really respond like that. When is the last time you remember watching him play basketball?

Well, that's just the thing. Like Gonzaga? that's what I'm saying. His value is plummeted. But he got $20 something million. 22 million over three years. And I think that's kind of why I was thinking he's a guy only 23 years old that some team is going to take a shot on.

He some team is going to take a shot on him. And the spurs are the type of team that it makes sense. I mean, he played 11 games in 2019, 20, he did not play at all last season for Portland. Last time we really saw him. fully healthy was the 18 19 season and he wasn't great coming off the bench for the blazers he showed some of the potential that made him a lottery pick but i mean he's a guy that dealt with a lot of injuries early in his career and i'm and i'm not saying this will be a smart contract i'm not saying

it'll look like the right thing to do but i kind of get it just because we're talking about a young player who is compared to al horford you know as a big who can shoot threes and switch screens I get the appeal and at a risk like a team that the spurs are trying to take because it's very clear with their draft pick of Josh Primo in the lottery using the 12th pick, young raw player who may not do much his first or first or second year in the league before he can build up his body, build up his skills to compete at the NBA level. This seems like a team, you know, Rudy Gay is gone going to the jazz. DeMarter Rosen could be gone. Patty Mills could be gone. All those older guys. So long. It's in with the youth.

And a guy like Zach Collins kind of makes sense to me. I just, if I had seen him play basketball in years, I think it would make more sense to me. Well, that's the only reason, like you're getting him for $22 million over three years because he's never been in a position to show his potential

because he didn't play last year. Had he played last year, that deal might be, more, even if he didn't like pop necessarily. No, and that's the reason. That's the reason that I'm surprised, right? I mean, I figure you'd be a one-year guy. That's the kind of guy you give a trial run to. You've been injured, you know. I wonder if he wanted the security. A guy like that gets a one-year deal, a prove-it deal.

You know what I mean? I saw this. I wonder if he wanted the long-term deal. I wonder if they were opportunity. I don't know if they're what deals are on the table, but I wonder if there were opportunities to sign a one-year. 10 million dollar contracts and he's like, I want the security just in case, just in case I don't stay healthy anymore. Yeah. You know, I could see that. I mean, oh, no, no, no.

Again, I could see a hundred percent him wanting that. I am surprised a team gave him that without, you know, I figured he'd have to do a show me deal. I mean, you got to pay somebody ultimately. A lot of guys do. Well, they paid Doug McDermott, too. They did pay Doug McMurt, too. Doug McDermott as well. And I think for, you know, deals that surprised me,

um, the, the dollar figure for Duncan Robinson, uh, it's just amazing in the sense that three years ago, he's an undrafted free agent. And Miami signs him and now he's signing for 90 million dollars over five years. You know,

I'm not saying like that's too paying him too much. It's just amazing. Then three years. Somebody else would have done it for elite shooters for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Somebody else would have done it.

But that is a. it is a shocking number. What did you make of all the all the Knicks signings that came in? Obviously they brought back some of their guys. You figured they bring back Derek Rose, Alec Berks,

they brought back New Orleans, Noel, and then I guess the one that was on a different team that they signed was Fornier. Do you like that fit there? I mean, 78 million over four years of a team option

in the last year. It's a heck of a lot of money for Evan Fornier. But like, I think it's important to look at these deals in the context of what's the five-year plan. And if you're the Knicks, your plan is to acquire a star that becomes available via trade or, you know, in free agency. And Evan Fornier at around, you know, just under $20 million annually. And like I said, with the team option in the last year, it's not an untradable contract. for, you know, sign and trade purposes in the future, for flipping him for, like a Damien Lillard, or, you know, if you need to just outright trade him to create cap space. Fornier is the type of guy who can help you a little bit now and then become tradable down the line.

There's no guarantee those opportunities will become available. We've seen the next strike out before. But I do think what they did this off season so far with Fornier, even in the draft, in the draft getting like Grimes, this is a team that's going to continue to look competent and competitive. So they're going to maintain that status this coming season and in the years to come. But like in a vacuum.

I still know that you needed to spend that to get to have that level of competitive. Somebody, somebody, they were bidding against somebody because Evan Fournier for a couple of days, it was, I was being told that it was 54 million over three years with a team option on the third year.

That turns into 78 million over four years with a team option in the fourth year. The first number is much more palatable, Kev. Somebody else, somebody was bidding out there. Somebody was going after Fournier. And why wouldn't they, though? 28 years old, really good shooter can do a little bit off a dribble for you. Like, 40 is not a bad player. No, it's not, but I, but I just drafted.

I'm hopeful, I'm hopeful still that R.J. Baird is going to grow into something really special. I don't think Barrett and, like, I don't think they're, skills clash. There are different types of guys like 4nier and Barrett can play together. You're like, you've got to have good players to help develop your young guys. I'm not saying like it's a terrific signing. Evan Fortier signing of the summer for the Knicks. I'm not saying that, but like they have to bring in somebody.

They have to bring in somebody. And Fornier is not a bad option. If you're a Knicks fan, it's just unfortunate that that this wasn't a summer where there was a marquee star on the market. that wanted to go to New York. Kauai seems to be staying with the clippers potentially. Lowry, as we already talked about, went to Miami. It's not like a loaded class of stars from the Knicks to pursue.

So it's just kind of bad timing in that sense. I wonder if everybody just watched Evan Forney a torch Team USA. And so the price of business went up. He did do that. I'll give him that. He torched Team USA when they played about a week and a half ago. Do you, I don't know, well, I'm going to ask you, because you might have some intel on this.

Do you know if the kings sit around and say which shitty center of the last 10 years have we not acquired yet? And then they go after whoever it is because they signed Alex Len yesterday. I thought you were about, I thought you were talking trash

about my guy. Sean Holmes. Oh, no. Tristan Thompson. Don't you del at Alex Len. Like, Is there any crappy center that is not worn a King's jersey anymore? Like, is there anybody they could go acquire?

When they said, I saw that come across as like, Sacramento King signed Alex Len. I'm like, for what? Why do they all play every year? I swear the King signed another friggin bobo center. It doesn't make any sense to me. He's not a bobo center. Yes, he is. He stinks.

It's just like a couple years ago, remember all those Kings fans jumped on me about Dwayne Dedman. They'd be like cut him within three months. But like a Bobos, like no, he's not, he's not a

Alex Land center though. I mean, he's not saying he's great. I'm not saying anything like that, but he's, he's a rotation big. What? What rotation?

He can be in a rotation for you playing 10, 15 minutes on a terrible team. I suppose. What good team has he ever got minutes for? Am I, am I mistaking him for somebody else?

Yeah, I'm just saying like, Bobo Center. I mean, like Tristan Thompson. Like he like he's got his flaws, but he's not a horrific player. I didn't say Tristan Thompson. He stinks, but I didn't call him a bobo center. I call Alex Linne a Bobo Center. Well, I mean, well, let's focus on Rashon Holmes though. Our guy. By the way, shout out to all the Celtics blockers. Your team obviously really love Tristan Thompson a lot. I mean, I'm not one to rub it in. I'm not one to rub it. Great team chemistry guy. Yeah. Excellent team chemistry guy. That's for sure. I have a memory of an elephant as well. Well, he's on the first thing smoking out of the air. That was funny that time. But I'm like with Rishon Holmes, one of the first guys, Chris, that you and me connected on that's right in 2016.

And congratulations to our friend Rishon Holmes for signing a $55 million. contract to stay with the Sacramento Kings. I'm so happy for Rashon Holmes. I'm so happy for the Rashon Holmes jersey that you bought me way back in 2016. A six or's one. That's four teams ago. What a journey. What a journey for Rashon Holmes.

I'm excited for him. I tell you this, it was good for big men. It really was, because not only did Holmes get that, how about the bag that Jared Allen got? How about Kelly Olenick, 37 million, too? a lot of bays getting paid.

But Jared Allen, 100 mil, huh? Yeah, 100. Yeah, five years 100 for Cleveland. I like that deal a lot, too. I like Jared Allen, quite a bit. I like Jared Alan, Jared Allen a lot too. Defense has great hair, plays hard, likes Dragon Balls.

Big energy. Great, great fit with Evan Movley. I look forward to watching the Cavs, man. I really do. I mean that. A back court with, we'll see if Colin Sexton stays around but Sexton, Garland, and the back court, you got Okoro at the wing, Nance still in the picture right now.

And then a front court with Jared Allen and Evan Mowgli. Those guys can be versatile together. You know, you can play with both of them because Mowbly can space the floor, defend the perimeter, or you can play with just one of them. A lot of lineup flexibility popping up now for the cavaliers. So I like what they're building. That's a good young core. A lot of pissed off Laker fans yesterday, Kev.

Oh, bye-bye, Caruso. Well, like, he was kind of the last, I guess it'll be tailing Horton Tucker now, but I mean... And he should be back Horton Tucker. That's my impression. But of the guys that are like, you know, homegrowns, right? Like that you've always rooted for that have never worn another jersey. Like, that's our guy. He's always been, and he is synonymous with team.

And you've rooted for him for multiple years and throughout his journey. there becomes, as a fan base, there becomes a different connection to the players, right? That many times there are guys that, you know, you just say, I know, I know what the cost is for this guy. I just want to root for this guy, you know? Like, I want him on my team. I know there might be some better options, but I got more fun rooting for this guy. And I really got that sense yesterday, right? that there was there's a lot of criticism I saw on social media.

And I'm not talking about from outside. I'm talking about from inside. From Lakers fans. Yeah, they were mad about the Caruso thing. Because the Lakers could have paid him. Yeah, to bring him back. Like they wanted him back on that team because at least it would be some connection to this pre, you know, mercenary team as it were.

Right. In the end, fans still love a connection to the players that they brought in, that their team drafted, that they watched grow in that jersey and the Caruso and have those moments over the good and the bad. He was also the last vestige of the last connection to like pre-Lebron. Yeah. That's it. Like, there is no, is that it? I guess he was the end of the line. He was the only bridge between the LeBron era and the era before, which was not a great era, but that's the real fans. The real fans are the ones that lived and died with Alex Caruso every night when they weren't winning any games. Yeah, they're the fans that watch Andre Ingram, you know, get an opportunity with the Lakers, right?

And I think with Caruso, obviously for Lakers fans, it's disappointing to lose a guy like that for all the reasons, you stated. But, you know, when you're contending for championships, this is what happens a lot of the time is players come and go and guys get paid. They get opportunities with new teams and like, he got paid a good amount, 37 million over four years. And so for the Lakers being a luxury tax team, instead, they're pivoting to some of these veterans, Wayne Ellington, Trevor Areza on top of acquiring Russell Westbrook. So, you know, Dwight Howard, Dwight Howard getting him back as well. Um, so, for the Lakers,

Russell Westbrook, you and me, Chris, have argued about him a lot over the years. The lack of spacing they'll have with certain lineups is definitely concerning. And I feel like with some of the, some of the decisions they've made, like a reason,

like Allington, like Baysmore. It seems like they're trying to go with some cheaper veterans who can shoot to surround Westbrook, LeBron, and AD with. My question for you, is, you know, was it the right choice going for Russell Westbrook here rather than buddy healed and possibly bringing back Dennis Schroeder?

Do they take the right path here with their decision last Thursday to go for Westbrook? My concern would be this. Not as much the whole, I think great basketball players in many cases can figure it out. But my concern would be how do you get the best of LeBron and the best of Westbrook simultaneously? There is little to no evidence that Russell Westbrook can be an effective off-ball player. If you believe he can be, you are believing in something that you have never seen. and I worry that while both are amazing players, you never got the best version of Chris Paul when he was playing with James Harden.

I think we all freely admit that, right? We saw people were talking about it being the end of the line for Chris Paul. Chris Paul has lost that first step. He can't get by people anymore, whatever. He helped lead the team to the finals this past year, right? But can you, because Chris Paul at his best has the ball in his hands. He's running things. Russell Westbrook at his best is running things.

LeBron James at his best is running things. And so that would be the concern for me more so than can you, can this all work if you have flamination. them with a couple of shooters. It's more of how does it work? How do I get the best of these guys if they can't? Both have the ball in their hands. And I would have built around LeBron and AD differently. I would have.

And I say this is a Westbrook guy. I mean, I look at all those guys and I say, look, a lot of times out, You've got to have, you've got to have stars and role players. Now, I think that one thing, one thing that I could be very persuaded by, because this happened to them last year with the Westbrook thing is, what are the chances LeBron's playing 70 plus games? What are the chances AD's playing 70 plus games? Like, if there is one thing, Westbrook has been intensely durable,

And so now in the absence of one of those, even on a night that they want to rest, or if they miss 20 games, you know, or might be to that point in career, that you're in a lot better shape than you were last year when you lost those guys, you know, or you lost one of those guys. So it does give you some kind of insurance on that level. But in terms of both of them simultaneously being at their best at the same time, I have real doubts about that. no matter who the other two guys that you're flanking them with are yeah i mean russle westbrook you know improves everything you just said in the sense that like they need somebody who can help handle the wall over the course of the season so lebron and a d aren't worn down come playoff time and if any time those guys need rest you know westbrook is going to bring it regular season westbrook is going to be an important part of that team the question throughout

the entire year will be how does he evolve for come playoff time when lexburgh's LeBron James at some point inevitably takes control, as he should, as one of the best players ever. And will we see Anthony Davis play more center? It's been reported that he will, that we'll see more 80 at the five with LeBron at the four. But they did just bring back Dwight Howard after one year in Philly. Marcus Sol indicated that he'll be back. So we're going to see plenty of two big lineups as well for the Lakers, which could limit some spacing. with Westbrook

has there been any skill development as a shooter? Did he return to prior form as a free throw shooter as a spot-up three-point shooter? Will there be any evolution and his desire to do

the things that we haven't seen him do like you said Chris playing off ball would he be willing to cut to the rim stand inside it like at the dunker spot and be a finisher around the paint? I really believe

I truly believe Westbrook could do those things. I believe it if he committed to it. And I think it could be effective, essentially having Westbrook as your center and certain half court sets. Like we talk about positionless basketball all the time. Westbrook is equipped to do that

or facilitate depending on what the matchup and the situation really necessitates. Will we see those things? I don't know if we're going to see those things, Chris. I don't know. So, Kev, it's hard to foresee a circumstance. It's like, why do I not just put five guys with a foot on the paint?

well we're going to see that we're going to see that at some point why do I why do I why do I why do I why do I not we're going to see Wayne Ellington's going to bomb me out yeah yeah Trevor Lisa I mean we're going to see that and that's that's where the

the concern is and why I don't think there's a clear answer like in a vacuum you choose Russell Westbrook over Buddy Heald and then a Schroeder like obviously but basketball is not built in a vacuum like there's you know every detail we're talking about it's just the tip of the iceberg

with how you build out a roster and the discussion of the front office is happening. And the other thing is it's the choice to me because it's not about like, of course, if you're going to tell me you can have Dennis Trudey or you can have Russell Westbrook, I'm taking Russell Westbrook every time I don't care about the spacing and all that other crap.

The healed thing is the fascinating one to me because that was real. according to everybody in the free world, that was real. It was real, yeah. Is that a choice at his number that would be more prudent? And I would say yes. I would say yes. I would say yes, because I think that the best versions of,

think about how many guys, think about how many moments that guys like KCP or whoever had over the years, where, and you think about even the end of some of those games a couple years ago in the bubble, where LeBron's getting all that attention, he whips it over. And that's the reason they had Danny Green. Now, Danny Green wasn't making them. But the whole idea is, like, this guy's going to command all attention. He's going to make the right basketball play.

He's whipping it to the guy who gets the wide open three. And that guy with the wide open three is who? Those are the also-rans. You know what I mean? Those are the guys that you're just adding for. a very cheap price, 15-year veterans, Trevor Risa, and Wayne Ellington and and Taylin Horton Tucker, who's not really a shooter. And whoever, I mean, you, you just, you create yourself so many open threes when you play with players like this. And why would I not go and get

the best one of the top five shooters in the world in Buddy Healed? I just, I think that that would be a I think that would be a much better fit with LeBron and AD. To me, that's devastating because that really is, really? You want to try to, because if you don't double him, he's driving to the basket on you or he's getting fouled. And if you do bring that guy and he throws it out to a wide open buddy healed, that is a different world than throwing it out to a wide open Danny Green. Yeah. Because Buddy Healed is a bucket, you know?

No doubt about it. I mean, he's an absolute flamethrower. from three, you know, both off the catch. He does. And that's all he would have to do. Yeah. Only would have to do. I mean, Westbrook, Westbrook adds a different element than healed would, obviously, with his playmaking creation, downhill attacking.

He can create threes because of his ability to get into the paint. Well, Buddy healed. I mean, I wish we could have seen it. I think Buddy healed in this type of offense would just completely blossom. But one thing, it's still not out as a. recording, you know, 11, 48 a.m. Eastern right now that they could get healed. It would have to involve a sign and trade with a guy like Horton Tucker or Schroeder. It's been reported that the Kings don't want Schroeder. No surprise there, considering the fact they just drafted Mitchell

on top of drafting Hallibur and last year and already having Fox with a max deal. Why would they want Schroeder? But Horton Tucker, you know, I could see that. I haven't heard not heard a single thing about the Kings being connected to Horton Tucker, but I suppose it's still theoretically possible that the Kings could land Buddy Healed, that the Lakers could land Buddy Healed. But as of right now, it doesn't seem like that's going to be something that's happening. That's somebody that I thought, you know, there was a minor connection last summer. That's somebody that Philly should really take a look at. Buddy Healed, yeah, I agree.

Another perfect fit. Like, we live in an air where, like, you just saw there is a reason all these guys that could shoot the basketball got paid an absolute fortune yesterday, Kev. Right? It's the name of the game right now, and that's what people want. Duncan Roberts is getting $90 million. Evan Fournier getting what he got from the Knicks. Doug McDermott is signing a contract.

Tim Hardaway, Jr., who was shooting fireballs in the playoffs last year, gets another big contract. I mean, you can go up and down the list. If you can shoot the ball, you're going to get paid. nowadays crazy thing I was about Hardaway is I heard the Pelicans offered him almost 90 million over four years and he ended up staying with Dallas so I mean like the market for shooters was significant and for him to stay with Dallas shows you know he's happy there and wants to play with Luca and 74 million he took instead of 90 yeah I think it was 88 million was the number

that I heard oh wow yeah so I mean it's a big difference you know 14 million dollars but but I guess what's the, it's like, what's the difference between $88 million and $74 million in terms of quality of life? Well, you also have the, uh, low, no state taxes for Texas. I'm not sure what it is in Louisiana. The price of living. Oh, it is insane, especially now in social media, I am aware of what things cost in all of these different cities around the, around the country.

And every time I see something from Texas, it's like, like I said, $600. $100,000 I'll get to this house. There's like a gate and a waterfall and a butler. And I'm like, good grief. So maybe that's why Tim Hardaway stayed where you wanted to stay, I suppose. Other guys yesterday that we got news free agent-wise, a couple years ago, out of that that draft, guys were eligible for extensions. We had at least three maxes.

You had Shea Gildesis Alexander, got a five-year 172, which is rather unbelievable. Like, you think about where he was drafted just a few years ago and that he's on his second team. And he got a max. Of course, we knew Trey and Luca would both get their max extensions. And those are over $200 million. And so we do have some of those guys. There are still going to be guys. I mean, we'll have to look up and down to find out what guys from that class end up getting.

There hasn't been an 8-in-1 yet, right? No, not yet. He's the number one pick. Obviously, Jaron Jackson Jr. will be up for his. That was the other top five pick. Marvin Bagley, who knows what's going to happen? I mean, there were rumors that he was, that he's going to be traded. And maybe he could be part of a projected buddy healed thing that you were talking about.

So he may end up somewhere else, but the Gildes-Alexander won is a tremendous case study in, we're just a few years removed from that NBA draft where Gildes-Alexander made a very late push to get to where he was in the draft, had that amazing SEC tournament, and was not, he wasn't even the first Kentucky guy taken that year. Knox was taken ahead of him. and look where he is now. I mean, five years, $172 million. And certainly one of the guys with,

I think we would put on that list of the brightest futures ahead of him in the entire league, right? Yeah, absolutely. No doubt about that. And signing for that amount of money, I think a lot of these rookie extensions, like Gildes Alexander was, you know, it was reported by a number of different people offered for the number one pick,

with the sixth pick to get Cade Cunningham. but the season he had last year with O KC dude super underrated. It was. He was terrific for them before they shut him down. They had a bench. I mean, he had to rehab. Yeah,

keep him sidelines, you know, still rehabbing his injury because he was that good. Yes. He was that good for OKC last year. So with them building this thing out now, I look forward to seeing him continuing to improve because I don't know if you, every year he's got way better.

I mean, geez, it's not in this notebook. I'd have to go back and look, but I remember at one point in the season, we were doing the show. It was like, all right, why are they, why are they good? Like this is crazy. Yeah. And like they, like Rusillo pointed out to me, their record wasn't reflective of their net rating. Like statistically, they were bad. Record wise, they were average.

But like, they were definitely better, you know, than anybody would have expected. No, no. And it was, but this is, this is what happened. Because I watch, I can't tell you how many times I remember the story telling you that it became commonplace for me and my son to watch league pass at night. And he would pull out his little iPod touch and he would pull up the scoreboard. And whatever was coming down to the wire, we would flip on. Well, damn near every night, he would say flip over to the Thunder game because it's coming down to the wire. and the truth is they were the team that was expected to lose every night.

They were the underdogs virtually every night. Teams went in there and dicked around. And this is what teams do. And they say, we'll just turn it up when we have to. And they just kept catching teams over and over and over again. A team would just be like, all right, last 10 minutes, let's crank it up. and then Gilles Alexander would get on a heater or Lou Dort would go and score some points

or Darius Basley or whoever it was, like on different nights. That one guy, was it, Mo Brown or whatever? Moses Brown. Yeah, 20-something rebounds in some of these kids. It's like, all right, we were trying to keep these guys sleeping, and instead we got caught, and they did that over and over again.

But their record was not far off from, 500, I don't think, with Gilges Alexander in the lineup, which is just outrageous for a team that won, you know, that obviously lost, what, 30 of the last 40 or whatever on purpose? Mission, mission accomplished, except not on the lottery, unfortunately, for them. Yeah, they didn't get that accomplished completely. All right, give me any others that we've missed, Kev, that we need to talk on. Obviously, Chris Paul going back to the Sons, 120 million, four years. you know, great for them to get him back.

Mike Conley going back to the Jazz, 74 million three years. You know, good to see him getting a contract. Like you saw him when at one point with Memphis, it looked like, you know, how good is he going to look in the years to come? Nice for him to get that. Norman Powell going back to the Blazers for $90 million over five years. That's a lot of money. But he's a good player and they had to bring him back.

We saw Gary Trent going back to the Raptors. I saw the picture of him signing his deal. You know, great, you know, I'm happy for him getting big money after going second round. I don't,

did we miss anybody else? Kelly Ubrey, Kelly Ubray hasn't signed yet. Warriors did sign Otto Porter and Bialitza, so Ubre likely going elsewhere. Don't know where yet. Will Barton going back to the Nuggets as well.

I think that just about covers everybody. He adopted out. So he just got that. extra year basically on there. I think he opted out of 15 and he got 16. So he made himself an extra, you know, million dollars and another year, uh,

tacked on to that deal. McConnell as well, going back to the Pacers, paying six million annually, going back to the suns. Oh, Tyce. Tice going to the Rock is we didn't also talk about the bucks. Not paying PJ Tucker,

letting him go to Miami when they could have paid him. And I don't know, like maybe he didn't want to stay there another year. Maybe we wanted the sunshine in Miami. And then Bobby Porter just going back. They haven't necessarily added quite a lot right now. They've just gotten slightly worse, if anything. I wonder if there's more to come that just hasn't happened yet for the bucks. So going to withhold opinion there. But I would hope that they do something with their back court adding out of a point guard. I think we covered pretty much everybody. Jeff Green going to the Nuggets, new team for Jeff Green. Hold on a second. Hold on a second. Hold on a

second with the bucks. What are we missing? The buck signed semi-o-jolay. Oh, yeah. Of course they did get shemmy. They did get shemmy. They did get shemmy.

Yeah. Yeah, they did get shemmy. So there's their PJ Tucker replacement and they stole a yonah stopper from the Southlix. That's a big time move, Chris. You got to get shemmy-o-jolay. The yonist stopper.

You got like all of them? Yeah. Oh, I didn't know. That's it. I never heard that before. Forgive me. We have not spoken since the NBA draft. I listened to all the content that came out.

All four parts of the Bill Simmons podcast of me and Ryan. You did not. You were not a huge fan, Kev. The Memphis Grizzly said the 10th pick. You said this is the first thing. The first one that I really don't agree with because they have been one of the the darlings. Tell me why I'm wrong, Chris.

Tell me why I'm wrong. What is the Grizzlies's front office feeding you? Tell me why I'm wrong about Zion Williams. Or are you also not happy? Oh, no. Look, this is where I stand. I only, there was only a few guys that I loved in the draft. I said right off the bat, I would have taken Moody.

Okay. That was a guy I loved. I loved Moody and I loved Suggs. Right? But Suggs is not attainable. This was not a draft where I was married to players in the same way. And I'm not going to tell you that. So honestly, like outside of like them say moody, I would have been like super excited because I loved him and I wanted him.

Okay. Other than that, honestly, I got to tell you, I was not going to be like passionate about it either way. because in the end, when it comes to the NBA draft, for 15 years, I thought I was better than the team I rooted for at drafting. And I was. I mean, I would say who I'd pick every single year, and it would have been better than them. I don't believe that anymore. They deserve the benefit of the doubt.

I agree. I think that's fair. Right? I think they deserve the benefit of the doubt. And that is the fun part about rooting for a team that you think has, a good process, a good chain of command, the right, you know, there's not too many cooks in the kitchen that they come to this agreement on the players that they want at these given spots.

And so I will tell you that the kid made an unbelievable impression when he came and did his press coverage and everything. I mean, dad is a, mom and dad were both here. Both are military. Oh, wow. dad is legitimately a Marine and mom has been in the Army and the Air Force. All right. So like this is not, you didn't draft a goofball.

I promise you that. Yeah. A lot of discipline in the family. Really good head on his shoulders. You know, very, very thoughtful. You know, I didn't know the kid. And it's not like I watched Stanford games. I saw the stats and the stats aren't that good.

everybody that saw him in high school loves Zaire Williams loves him. Yeah. And then the kids, and then college, you know. It was a weird year for Stanford. It was a very odd year. I mean, this is what I was told. Put a mark through it. And now we'll see if that's legitimate or not, right?

But put a mark through it. They didn't even use their own facilities. They lived in a hotel. They didn't use their own facilities. They played all these random games. displacing that. They had a COVID thing. And then this particular kid had two deaths in the family during the season.

Like the whole thing was just a debacle, right? The whole thing was a debacle for him. And so again, we'll find out. Is that reasons or excuses? But he was the eighth ranked player and the number one small forward in that high school class. and so we decide how much do you want to evaluate the 25 games that he played or whatever it was at Stanford. Some of them very good, some of them are very bad. But I just wasn't going to get all that passionate about it, honestly, either way.

Because I'm just now, and I don't want to look, I am a huge fan of what you and all these draft analysts do. and it is not, that is not an easy job. And I also am very, very appreciative of everybody's opinion. I also know that in our league, it's the way things work, which is, you know, because you see reactions from fans and analysts, etc. on if a guy's going too high or a guy's going too low or whatever the case may be on draft night. And take, for instance, the boss.

Book Knight case, right? Okay. So that was, I believe, the next pick. So, and there were people that were saying, you could add James Booknight. They even, you know, I think even on TV, they said, you could add James Booknight, right? Okay. Well, so James Booknight, who I've been told can score in the NBA, and I don't know what kind of player he's going to be, right? But when we first started talking about the NBA draft, James Booknight is nowhere to be found. And then James Booknight is like, you know, kind of the lottery. Or he doesn't. moved up and it's like, hey, who's this booknight guy? You even remember, it's like a couple months ago, I asked you, it was on your board.

I said, who is this booknight guy? I didn't even said his name right. Buknight. I can't even remember how I said it. I didn't even know how to say his name. So he wasn't a thing at all. And then, from what I've gathered, Oklahoma City pulled, like, much like the 49ers did with the whole Mac Jones thing for the NFL journalism.

They pulled the wool over everybody's eye. Everybody thought they were taking Booknight at six. They scammed everybody and made everybody believe that. And Booknight was up at six or, you know, right around there in virtually every mock. And so they wanted Josh Giddy, which they got at six, which was shocking to everybody that he went there. Right. And so then Book Knight is not going six and he's not going seven, and he's not going eight, and he doesn't go nine, he doesn't go 10.

And it's like, why is James Booknight? James Booknight, in the minds of everybody who's taken in all this public relations and has been built up James Booknight. Why isn't James Booknight being taken? And if you didn't take James Booknight, you're crazy. When A, nobody gave a flying crap about James Booknight two months ago. he shows up out of nowhere, and B, his draft stock was artificially inflated badly because a team was leaking out there how much they love James Booknight.

And so everybody thinks he's going to go in the top eight picks of the draft. And so to me, it's like, geez, you passed on James Booknight? Well, like, if everybody in the mocks had James Booknight at 13, then nobody's saying that, right? It's all based upon our opinions are all based upon whatever we've seen in the mock draft. And that's why with Josh Primo. And where they're supposed to go? That's why with Josh Primo going 12th of the Spurs. There was, me included saying, ah, they drafted them too early.

They could have traded down and gotten him. But, you know, you evaluate the player individually. and it doesn't matter who has a player ranked where, where they're expected to go. You take the players that you think is the best choice. And for the Spurs, I didn't love the Primo pick, but clearly they view him highly.

And had they traded down, like my understanding is that, you know, maybe OKC at 16, you know, had they stayed there, could have taken him. Maybe the Pelicans at 17,

I'm told, like Primo. So for the Spurs are 12, you know, or the Grizzlies at 10 with Zaire Williams. Maybe, maybe he would have been there at 17, but no guarantees. And I think for all of these teams, regardless of where players are projected to go, whether it's giddy up at six for OKC when a lot of people expected him to go late lottery, or whether it's Primo who people thought would go in the 20s,

you just got to draft the guys that you think are the best because. Yeah, all it matters. Did you hit it? Doing the draft is such an inexact science. There are so many variables that are impossible to weigh. You don't know how players' personalities are going to change and given situations. Once again, millions of dollars. You don't know how that's going to change their work habits. There's so many variables that just come into play with opportunity and minutes and the right

coaches, the right shooting coach. Like, it's an endless list that plays a big factor in the success and failure of the draft. And not to mention, Chris, there's the randomness element. too. Sometimes guys just are late bloomers and then they pop. Sometimes guys stop getting better. Like the draft is really hard to do, which is why you were better at picking the draft than the Grizzlies front office who had access to way more resources than that you do because those resources don't necessarily make you better at the draft. And the other thing is there are like, so the Primo one is a great example, right, Kev, because people went.

what the hell because he wasn't high on anybody's list. And he wasn't eye at anybody's mock draft. But I will tell you, and you know this too, if there was a tip that got out there and all of a sudden, you know, Jonathan Cavonia, Mike Schmitz on the front of ESPN say, updated mock and Josh Primo is 12 on the mock. Then when it comes time for the draft that Josh Primo goes 12, nobody's going, what the hell?

Because they had an aware. of it, right, that this could be so. And so if you don't, right, it's all dependent upon where you are in the mock draft in terms of the reaction. And I get to come by this honest because I just did not watch. The reason I didn't have as many strong opinions about the draft this year is because, of course, I watched the entire NCAA tournament. But I watched less college basketball last year than any year in my, from the time I was

probably eight years old. Seriously. Because to me, what I love about college sports is the pageantry. I like the fans jumping up and down. I like the crowd getting on top. And yeah,

the bag, like the product is not great. It's not. It's not a great product. The encore product, you mean. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, the basketball.

Yeah. The basketball is not great. Sometimes even hard to watch. Hard to watch. So now you're going to put it in empty stadiums where the only thing is the basketball?

I mean, I just, to me, it just didn't have the same, I, college, college basketball was the one to me that it affected the most, the quarantine stuff.

I could watch NFL. I could watch college football, NBA. College basketball to me was affected the most. And the other thing was, there were elite players that weren't there in the same way.

Jalen Green. Camina. Green. giddy even that we're talking about top picks, you know. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I think I think with the drafts, you just got to draft the guys where every you individually evaluate them. And sometimes that means guys slip down the rankings who you disagree with. Like I think it's a shame that Garuba falls to 23, that Cameron Thomas falls to 27. But for those teams, because I rank those guys higher, I view that as a potential steal. You know, it's just all. all about the way we individually perceive these players and as teams and organizations, you, if you let the opinions of media and fans influence your decisions,

that's your number one mistake. You can't do that. You can't. You just have to do your own evaluations and stick to what you think is best for your own organization. Just in other sports too. I'll never forget. I was so like,

just like, oh, that is so boring. When I'm a Cowboys, And we took Zach Martin out of Notre Dame, a guard. Who cares, right? I mean, Zach Martin's one of the best guards of the line. I mean, he's literally an all-pro caliber guard.

And as part of one of the best offensive lines, you know, that ever was a couple of years ago. And it's like, okay, so on draft night, I didn't love it. And Cowboys fans were bitching about it. And a lot of them were bitching because guess he was on the board? Johnny Mansell. And the word goes that, you know, Jerry Jones wanted Johnny Mansell or talking about it and they overruled them, whatever. I mean, the only thing in the end that matters, did you hit it? The most excited, one of the most excited I've been was when they drafted the corner out of, out of LSU, Mo Claiborne.

He stunk. So the only thing that matters in the end, it doesn't matter what any draft analyst says or what your grade is or whatever. it's a zero-sum game. Did you hit the pick or not? If you didn't hit the pick, you messed up. If you did hit the pick, then good on you. And people sing your praises. And one day they'll say, I can't believe they got him that 10.

Yeah. You know? Or they'll say, see, no way should that kid have gone Ted either way, right? For sure. I mean, sometimes you, I remember back in the 04 NFL draft, I wanted the Patriots to draft Stephen Jackson, who went on to have an awesome career. And they took Vince Wilfork and I was disappointed. Vince Wolfork goes on to become one of the greatest nose tackles in the history of the NFL.

The next year, I don't even remember who I wanted the Patriots to draft. They got Logan Mancings. I'm like, oh, God, an offensive guard. Logan Mankins, who is this? And then it turns out Logan Mankins has an awesome career protecting the goat. because you are a Patriots guy and because it is the goat's birthday. He's 44 today. Tom Brady.

I'm going to leave you with this story. There's a great book. There's been a lot of them over the course of the last several years now that are like fly-on-the-wall type books, right? Where somebody was embedded with a team and wrote. Obviously, there's, you know, from the 70s breaks of the game by David Halberstam, which was the best of the best. but there have been several over the course of the past decade or two. But it's been over a decade now.

And I don't know if you know him or not. I believe he's still on the radio in Boston. And he was formerly, I believe, of ESPN. Michael Holly. Yeah, I know Mike Holly. Yep. Great guy. Awesome guy.

Michael Holly's one of the best. Michael Holly wrote one of my favorite sports books. And I'm not a Patriots fan, but it is called Patriot Rain. And Michael Holly was able to spend. a year inside. Like, Belichick let them in. It let him in. And he wrote this whole book.

And I will never forget a story from in there. So they got to the draft. They're all in the war room. And they are going to, their six-round pick is coming up. And they got all the scouts in there and they got the coaches in there and whatever. And the discussion they had in the war room

was do we take Tom Brady from Michigan or do we take Tim Rite from Louisiana Tech and they fought about it and then they landed on Brady and it's like the rest is history. What if they take Tim Rite? What becomes of Tom Brady? What becomes a...

What if Tim Rite is the best quarterback of all times? No, but I mean seriously, it's one of those... It's a sixth. round pick. It's not a huge deal. But that and obviously, like, when you get to the sixth round, they're, you know, they're picking nits

between each other. Like, all right, which, and then somebody wins the argument and they say, fine, take Brady. Like, it wasn't like they were married to. They were arguing as to who they should take between those two guys as another quarterback to bring into camp. And then he doesn't play much as a rookie.

Even though he's shining in practices, he drew Bletso still the starter entering the second season, and then boom. Mo Lewis, Knox Drew Bledso out, out of bounds. Tom Brady in and sometimes opportunity knocks. And Tom Brady has never let go, man, never let go. 44 years old, seven Super Bowls and more to come. And Tim Rite didn't have much of a career.

You know what I mean? It's unbelievable. It's a crazy story. I never remember like Drew Henson back in college when Brady's competing for snaps with Henson, whoever, like he's the hot shot. Everybody thinks me two-way pro star and. The whole thing. I'm really.

Unbelievable. Hey, look, there's going to be a lot more free agency news, and now we're going to get into trade season, where teams are going to start that, like once this free agency stuff starts to settle down later in the week, teams only have, you know, they're not that long to figure out their roster, you know? No, not long, quick turnaround again.

Going to get to see what they got in Summer League, see if they've got some undrafteds that surprised them, see if they, In fact, tonight, the Utah Summer League begins on NBA TV. So we're already be watching some basketball tonight. Right. Something to discuss on Thursday, maybe Thursday night, Friday morning. When are we recording this week, Chris?

Friday morning. I think Friday morning. Back on our usual schedule Tuesday mornings and Friday mornings. Yep. So I look forward to that. We may have to stay up late on Thursday night. Geez, it's going to be way late for you. What do we have Thursday night?

1215, your time. 1115 Central. United States, Australia. Oh, wow. That's the game. Thursday night. That's late. It's Thursday night.

I'm looking forward to that. Patty Mills versus America. Man, Matisse Stuybel. I know. That'll be a good game. That would be fun. It'll be a really good game. All right, Kiv, I'll talk to you on Friday.

Thanks so much to Steve Allman for filling in for us producing the show today. And we will talk to you later this week.