The Mismatch - Game 3 Keys in Indy and a New Kidd in New York? Plus, Tyrese Haliburton: The Low-Usage Superstar.

Episode Date: June 10, 2025

Verno and Jacoby discuss the expected Game 2 Thunder victory and how Game 2 was the best of the best of the Thunder and the worst of the worst of the Pacers. They discuss how the media is viewing Tyrese Haliburton and why the narrative around him might be misconstrued. They then dive into their expectations for Games 3 and 4 in Indianapolis, as well as the series going forward. Next, the guys examine what the injuries to Zach Edey and Darius Garland could mean for the Grizzlies and Cavs, respectively; what Atlanta’s front office changes signal; and whether Jason Kidd might end up coaching the Knicks. (0:00) Welcome to The Mismatch!(0:27) Thunder Take Game 2 Over Pacers: 123-107 (TIED 1-1)(15:28) Expectations for Haliburton at Home(31:18) Is There A Small Market Home Court Advantage?(36:33) Thunder [-5] vs. Pacers (TIED 1-1)(52:00) Zach Edey and Darius Garland Injury Updates(59:00) Hawks Hire New Front Office Execs(1:04:14) Knicks Flirting with Jason Kidd as Next Coach(1:12:13) Wemby: Shaolin Monk?! Leave us a message on our Mismatch voicemail line! [phone] Visit creditkarma.com or download the app today.The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Chris Vernon and David JacobyProducers: Jessie Lopez and Tucker TashjianSocial: Keith Fujimoto Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon and joining me to us every week from the ringer.com is Dave Jacoby-Cobie. What's happening in Verno? We had game two last night. Glad we had a day to digest it before we talked about. Yeah, now everybody has parsed through it. It's our opportunity one-to-one after the thunder evened it up by winning game 2, 123 to 107. The Indiana Pacers did not go the way of only two other teams in finals lore. The 90s, the 90s, the 92 Bulls and the 95 Rockets were the only ones that won the first two games on the road. So I think this was certainly expected, given especially the way game one went down, that the Thunder would be able to rebound and win game two. It is only a matter of how it happened and what that means for the rest of the series.

And so before I tell you what I thought about it, give me your initial thoughts. As it ended, did you feel like, okay, Oklahoma City has now taken control, or did you feel, and this is the way it should have been,

and Indiana was lucky to win game one, or did you think, oh, hold on, we may very well have a competitive series on our hands because unlike some of the other Oklahoma City foes, Indiana didn't get beat by 50. Yeah. I did something I rarely do.

I watched it again this morning. All right. entire thing, right, breaks and everything. I just wanted to, I just wanted to re-process what I saw because the first watch, to answer your question, felt a little more dominant from Oklahoma City than the second watch did. Because when you're in the moment watching the live game, you've got your eye on the score,

and it didn't really feel competitive in the fourth quarter at all. But watching it back, I forgot how tight the first quarter was. The Thunder didn't feel, comfortable in the first quarter. And I really, really think that they only started a case in Wallace in the game two because they started in game one. They didn't want to admit that they're wrong.

Because I thought that Hartinstein had the most impactful three-point game I've ever seen in my entire life. Like, his passing, you know, I've been a fan of his since before the Knicks since he was on the Clippers. And he could do so much. And I thought that he made some really good reads. He had a terrible turnover in the

quarter. But I thought that you're going to see, I think you're going to see a lot more Hartinstein moving forward in this series. Well, and he's one of those guys. I used to cover a guy just like this in Stephen Adams, where it didn't particularly matter what the box score said at the end. It's keeping balls alive and it is the all important screen assist. Thank you. As they call it, where it's like, this guy is getting this offense in motion. Jaila Williams slow start, and then Hartinstein came in, and he got him two. Because it's like, guys die on those screens. And if they say one more time, I swear, you know, as we get to the finals,

you've watched these teams play three playoff series. So you have heard the announcer say now 25 times everything that can be said about all of these players. It's very rarely a new wrinkle. If they say one more time how Mark Dagnall, says that's the best screener he has ever coach. It's like, okay, I heard that in round one. I heard it in round two. We're to the finals.

We know Mark Dagnall thinks that Isaiah Hartinstein is the greatest screener of all times. This episode is presented by Intuit Credit Karma. Navigate the world of credit cards with Credit Karma's tailored recommendations. It's suitable for anyone interested in taking control of their financial journey with cutting edge technology. start at credit karma.com to find cards that fit your financial lifestyle. Credit karma, finding the right card for you. Coming from the next series, when Carlinty Town sets a screen, Neesmiths would just go over.

He barely touches the defender. He barely touches the defender. And to see the way that SGA and Hartinstein, they will get a switch. They will have the defender die on the screen time and time again. I thought that was really important. Also, just the way he moved the ball. like I think there's a lot being made of the two big lineup

and they're only on the floor for like five minutes and they look pretty good together. But he's he's such an instinctual passer that I thought it was fantastic. Another thing is like I think Chet has got, he's scored the quietest 72 points I've ever seen in these two games. You mean SGA?

SGA, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He said Chet. He said Chet. I was like, Chet ain't scored no 72, brother. But to be fair, Chet, I thought... Yeah, he was good. The first half in particular, I felt like he knew he didn't play well in game one and wanted to make up for it.

But SGA has, you know, he had 34 and didn't feel like it. Like, he's just so consistent. Because it's not a highlight 34. It's a surgical 34. It's like, you know, just rising and firing from 18 feet. It's fade away from the baseline over an extended arm. I mean, he was... Absolutely awesome.

And I mentioned this today on my local show. I said, like, I always talk about if, you know, if you watch, like, say, like the hockey and you flipped on the hockey, right? And the finals going on. If you had never seen hockey in your life and many people, the only time they'll watch is when it's this high stakes, you turn that thing on. Bro, you're going to recognize Connor McDavid's better and faster than everybody in about two seconds, right? And last night felt like one of those, if you just had never watched basketball and you just set somebody down, your wife who doesn't even care about basketball, she would have been identify who the best player on the floor is very easily last night. Aaron Wiggins. Aaron Wiggins.

And she would have said, wow, why doesn't that guy get paid $250 million? Right. That Aaron Wiggins was great. But look, it's kind of odd that you say that after watching. it back because I felt almost on an island. And even after listening to several podcasts about it and reading about it, I did feel, and I didn't know if it was confirmation bias that there was a,

you know, there's a heavy sentiment going in that the thunder are going to kill them. And so then it was like, okay, well, that was a fluke in game one. But now we're back to the originally scheduled programming, which is the thunder taking care of this team. I watched that last night and I thought,

like this is it was only going to be the margin that was going to be decided right because i don't think anybody thought indiana's going and winning two there especially after they got the first one right you've got a 68 win regular season team with their backs against the wall in a place where they have mauled their opponents the sense of accomplishment is huge if you're Indiana coming out of there with a split, considering the teams that have won there are a game winner by Aaron Gordon and a game winner, you know, by Tyrese Halliburton. And now we're done with the list. Like they don't lose at that place and most teams get beat by a thousand at that place.

So nobody thought Indiana was going to win both of those. And so there's part of me that was going, that was expected. And then the other thing was, I thought they played extremely well, The Thunder. And I thought that was a great representation of Thunder basketball and especially their role players stepping up, Wiggins stepping up, Caruso stepping up, guys knocking down open shots. That 19 to 2 run, they went on in the second quarter, the keeping their foot on the gas, and never letting Indiana go on a big run in the second half to put it in peril or to make it be like, oh, God, here's the team that always comes back on people. Like, they kept their foot on their neck well and didn't let that thing get under double digits

and didn't give up that big run. And so I thought the Pacers did not play very well. Who played well for the Pacers? Yeah, it was not, it was not, I thought it was not a great representation of the best of the Pacers. And it was a great representation of the best of the thunder. And when those things to collide, to me, it was almost like I would have expected the Pacers to get run out like hardcore. I'm talking, we've turned a lot of thunder games off in the third quarter in these playoffs to where the rest is just a waste of time. Trust me.

Yeah. Trust me. I sat through that one. I'm watching the game. I had to see if Uki was going to get in. Especially rewatching it is, remember the first game I was texting you? I just kept texting you hanging around.

Hanging around. And you mentioned the 19 to 2 run. They made a 10 to a 10 to nothing run. The Pacers did sort of like, I think in the third quarter they got it down to like 12 or 13, but it's so different going from 20 to 12 than it is going from 12 to 6. you know what I mean?

Like, because then you feel like you're within distance for a miraculous finish. But they never really got it in single digits. Well, and there was a moment in the second quarter where there was a mini run by the Pacers. And then there was a timeout. And they came out and scored like six straight to push it back up, you know. And so it was 18 by halftime. And it's like, geez, man, I don't know if you're, you don't need to be in the business of trying to come down from 18 on the road. against the team with their backs against the wall.

So I never, once that, I'll just say once that 19 to 2 run hit, I never thought the Pacers had a chance in that game. It was just a matter of what the margin was going to be. They outscored the Thunder in the second half. A lot of it was garbage time. And I think if you're the Pacers, you feel pretty good on that plane home. I think you feel pretty good about your chances. You didn't get blown out.

No one played well. I can't think of a single pace around like, oh, they had a good game. I can't think of one. Well, look, Caruso and Wiggins outscored everybody on their team, both of them. Both of them had more points than anybody on the Pacers. So that should tell you a story. And look, the one thing I will say that is a positive for Indiana, go look through that box score, and you're going to see that it's like the same amount of field goal attempts.

It's three less field goal. It's three less field goal makes. the rebounding. Fast break points. They need to do better on that. Four fast break points to them. 15 turnovers and the live ball ones didn't kill you, right? And they lost by 10 at the free throw line.

So that's 10 of them. And more importantly, and sometimes this stuff can be so simple, we said if they can keep their turnovers low, and the one thing they have to do in this deal, and it's going to be very difficult for, them to do it four times over the course of seven games. But they got to win the three point line. And in game one, they won the three point line by seven made field goals.

And in game two, they were tied. Like, here's what we know, because they are never making hay at the rim against Oklahoma City. They don't have the guys that can drive to the basket well enough. Like, dude, they got into the bonus a minute and a half into that third quarter and never got to the free throw line. Never. Oh, interesting.

It was crazy. Like Chris Paul is rolling over in his grave, right? Because it's like you got to the, this is what you play for. You got to the bonus so early in that deal and then just could never get to the free throw line. The only time they really went to the free throw line, we're on shooting fouls.

And the closeouts were great. And it's like they made seven more. That's 21 points. difference, right? They won the three point line by 21 in game one, and they barely won that game. Oh, it was 14 for 40 for the Pacers and 14

for 36 for the Thunder. That can't be. That's not that big of a difference. And you've got to remember, you have to remember this, is that's Caruso and Wiggins having the game of their lives. Right. That's one of the things that makes me feel good if I'm on the plane and on the Pacers. I'm like, our guys are going to shoot better at home.

And they will. They're role players will for sure. Jordan Caruso are not going to go, whatever they went, you know, nine for 15 or whatever they went. Like, it was insane. Well, and right. Oh, yeah, Caruso Wiggins. And then Dorson did hit a bunch, but like, Obitopin couldn't make a shot to save his life in game two. Not right.

Like, that's the stuff that, that's the ebb and flow. And a lot of it is, you know, there's sometimes the common tropes are common tropes because they're absolutely true. And we see them every single year in the playoffs. role players play better. And when people are cheering for them, they start knocking down shots. 20,000 people cheering for you makes you feel good. It makes you feel great. And so here's what we know.

They can't, they've got to win the three point line by a good margin. And I would imagine that they will take more and make more in their home arena than they will in Oklahoma City. The other thing, you know, is after that game, and this is a discussion I wanted to have with you. So the Halliburton discussion. Oh, let's go. It's so strange because we go into, even when we went to the NBA finals,

we're like, it's weird. They don't really have a guy. like the other teams have a guy, right? Like the usage rate is so low for Halliburton compared to other guys that get talked about in that way. And see, Occam's like the leading scorer. And then there's Halliburton. And then Miles Turner's kind of at 16 right behind them. And then Nemhard gives you 12.

And then Neesmith gives you 11. And it's like, and they go nine deep and on and on and on. And he's had these heroics at the end. of games that have led to, and some monster games throughout these playoffs that have led to this, is he a superstar? Is he a top 10 player? Is he, you know, all of these type of discussions? And the way that team functions is so different than not only any team, the other teams in

the NBA, but also what we're used to talking about. Right. We talk about star players and we talk about coaches. And so we say, Donovan Mitchell and Anthony Edwards and Janice on Sancho Cumpo and Paulo Bancaro and I'm listing off all the top guys in usage, right? And it's drama rant and what's wrong with this guy? What's wrong? Brunson, sure. Okay. So again, they don't, they don't filter it out for, like for guys that just played even a couple of minutes. So, like, if you were to click on usage, what you'd find is,

don't connect in his four minutes at the highest usage of anybody. Okay. But even if we extract those guys or even if we add those guys in, which is not that many, you're still going to see all the biggest stars, right? Even SGA, even wherever. Well, you will not find Halliburton on the first page of usage rate for the playoffs. You got to go to the second page. And he's like 52nd and I got it.

They're throwing in. I don't know what it would be if you extract it all like the, you know, the Dalton connects and the Lamar Stevens is of the world. But the point remains. His is it like 20, 21, something like that, right? Of responsible possessions. Like he is. So most of these teams, it's like they hover around one guy.

And one guy makes a massive. A massive percentage of it happened, right? They're the engine. But then I keep hearing this over and over again. Like Halliburton's the engine. Halliburton's the head of the snake. Halliburton, it's like, we talk about the Pacers. And I think that even Carlisle, when you listen to him, can get a little bit frustrated with this.

When they're talking about he's not aggressive enough and he's not taking enough shots. And he only had seven shot attempts in the first three quarters and all of this kind of stuff. but it is odd throughout these entire playoffs and frankly throughout the entire season that team and he do not function like what we are used to when we're used to talking about this guy's got to do more you know the ESPN thing right like it's not a show unless somebody's on there going Tyrese Halliburton has to step up. You know, like Tyrese Halliburton has to be. And it's like you're talking about him like he's Anthony Edward. He's never played like that. Like he's just keep the ball moving one of the five guys

that every once in a while has big games and then has hit five of the most clutch shots you'll ever see. Before the playoffs, I mentioned Halliburton because my experience with him last season in the Knicks-Pacer series, And I said, you know, SJ has nine games where he has 30 points, nine games in a row. Right. He has 30 points. And Halliburton is up or down. He can have 35 and he can have five. And my question for you is this, because I'm glad I rewatched it because he had five shot attempts in the first half.

And he's the guy. He's their main guy. But I don't feel like he left a lot on the cutting room floor. Well, I don't feel like he had a lot of opportunities. He only had two more in the third quarter. He had seven through the first three quarters. All of his, all of his thing. Look, six shots in the fourth.

Twelve of his 17 points were in the fourth quarter. And that game was done. Like it was all. They're meaningless floaters. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. But I just don't. We went into this series saying they've got Kaysen Wallace in front of him,

Lou Dort for him, Alex Caruso for him. And who are you going to switch? Who are you going to? Who's going to switch? Here's the deal. And I was listening to a guy who I think's very good, who honestly, I wish was on more NBA broadcast.

Here's a take for you. Because I rarely hear people bring up his name. I think Greg Anthony is fantastic when I hear him talk about basketball. I just like him. I find him to be likable. And I think he's always making good points. And one of the things that I saw, I saw him on NBA TV. And he was like, they're asking him.

They're like, oh, you know, the shot. Attempts were so low for Halberton. He's like, he's like, I'm going to tell you the same thing that you probably hear from Rick Carlisle, which is it's not the shot attempt. But it is the aggression, right? It is the getting it. And Halliburton has said to himself, uh, you know, allowed, it's about getting into the lane, right? How many times can I get two feet into the lane? It's hard.

Because I'm collapse. That's collapsing the defense, right? It's not. It is key functions as to make everybody else. better. And if his shot is there, then he will obviously take his shot. But that is the problem, because going into the lane against Oklahoma City is unlike going into the lane against anybody else. Number one, it totally collapses. Number two, there's 10 hands, literally slapping at the ball around here. And the other thing is, they're very, very difficult to beat off the dribble, right?

Most teams, so the thing is, things have to be quicker, and he has to be able to get into space to where things are going fast enough to where he's able to take those extra dribbles because it's about it's not the shot attempt but it is about him being able to collapse the defense and then be able to make those kickouts to draw the extra defenders because he can't just be getting locked up one on one and not causing any extra attention to come to him that is the thing where He has a higher calling. He has to be able to create because those other guys are not create their own shot guys in many cases. And he is going to be the creator for them.

And therefore, he has to be more aggressive getting downhill in order to create for those guys. But he's a great player. I'd imagine he'll figure it out. But I also think it's been strange to hear the discussion surrounding him as if the Pacers depend on his performance so much more than they actually do. They don't. And when you watch a game, I don't even think he played that bad. They're just great defenders in front of him. Like, there's one possession where he gets a screen and Crusoe fights over it.

But they kind of have switched anyway to SGA. Halberton is a great, he gets past SGA, and then J-dub is there in front of him. And SGA does this thing where he reaches and rips the ball away, and then it goes into transition, he gets fouled. It was just like, they've got, I don't know, four of the 10 best defenders on the planet, and they're all in Halliburton's position.

It is going to be other players and other people. I do think that one of the things that he's celebrated for, which I am scared of as a Knicks fan playing the pace, is when he does the jump pass thing. Like he jumps in the air and he's done that since college. And he looks off the defender. He always spots where he wants to pass and then looks at another player. So the team,

so the defense can't help it, but kind of half rotate towards who he's looking at. And he hits a no look pass for a dunker at three. I need to see a little bit more of that. You know, because it's getting in the lane, getting in the air, and then sort of pre-reading who you,

who's going to be open and then looking the defense off. I think there could be a little bit more of that in game. three and four. Well, and I know how much you swear by plus minus, but I do think they're winning his minute. I know, but I do think they're winning his minutes. And the minutes with him and Turner on the floor have been very successful for Indiana. When you were talking about how they looked at the beginning of the game and you think about segments of the game. And frankly, they got run off when those guys went out of the game, right? Because that's when you you could do the double big thing because it's like, okay, now Turner's not going to play us out five wide.

And it's top. He's not hitting anything. Or it's Thomas Bryant. Yeah. Right. So what? So it's like, all right, now they're not going to be able to five wide us. But I think you're probably going to see, I bet you're going to see more Halliburton and more Turner minutes.

I bet what you're going to find for games three and four is that a team that has been. been so reliant and so successful with their depth has finally found a team that you're going to have to shorten it up against. Because even Oklahoma City had to shorten theirs up, right? Everybody was like, oh, Oklahoma City, they're so deep. They're so deep. And then you got to, when it was nut cutting time against Minnesota in the must win game. And it's like, all right, Caruso and Wallace played off the bench.

And that was it. Right? At Arrow Wigg, nobody else even played 10 minutes. it was like, all right, even Oklahoma City got down to seven. And so I don't know if they'll ever get down to seven, but I wouldn't be surprised they got down to eight. And I wouldn't be surprised if you play Jay Will. They don't even play Jay Will in these games.

Right, right. Oh, yeah. And you've got like just kind of, in Indiana's case, I think you're probably going to get some more, like, I think you'll get more Halliburton and I think you'll get more Turner. That's what I bet. I bet you get more of those two guys. Because those guys can present some defense.

With a team that's almost impossible to create any kind of defensive problems for, they can. Just because of the five-wide thing. And as long as they can rebound, they can get out and they can run. And then it's the chaos, right? And it's the trailing, Miles Turner can trail and not. You can see it. We've seen those in the Indiana game where it's like, okay, now they're far. line down the court. Now Knee Smith gets one in the corner, but they close out on him.

And here comes trailing Miles Turner who steps into a three from the top of the key or something. It's like, all right. Like that is a weapon that they have. And I think you're probably, you're going to get less of the depth from Indiana because you just, you just got to play your best guys the maximum amount they can. I think Indiana was in game two somewhat until the end. They won game one, and they haven't had a 20-point score in either game. Do you see that stat?

They've not had a single player score 20 points. Pascal Seacom had 16 in the first quarter of game two against the Knicks. Like, I mean, Seacom's one that they're going to have to throw it down to more. I think so, too. Well, because they also have to win the free throw line. Like that has been, that's been a problem in the first few games. That's another one, much like we were talking about the, Again, they're not the better team.

So they've got to win these extra things. And we talked about the three point line, and that needs to be a big win. They need to win the three point line in a big way. They need to keep the turnovers low. And the other thing is they've got to win that free throw margin. This is a team that does not go to the free throw line a great deal. SGA does. Nobody else does.

And you can't lose the free throw. throw line in a massive way to this team. That needs to be a Pacers win or at least even up. That can't be a big Oklahoma City win because that's not even what they do. They're not a team. They have gone to the free throw line. They're like in the low 20s in terms of free throw disparity. They routinely lose that because of the way they play because they got one guy that goes to free throw line a lot. He goes a lot. But nobody else does. And at the end of the game, you can't look up

and they've got 10 more made free throws than you. That can't be a win for Oklahoma City on a regular basis and the Pacers be able to sustain. I think looking at game three Wednesday night, I'm not going to see here actually I know who's going to win, but I think that oftentimes players will sort of like overcorrect. I think Chet didn't play well in game one, and you saw him in the first quarter,

he probably put up four or five shots. And I think he was like three for five or something. He was just like, I'm going to make an impact on this game today. I think Halliburton's going to do the same thing in game three. That's one thing that I think is, I think he's going to get five shots up in the first quarter. I think that they're going to make a point to get him involved.

I think the same thing with Siakum. The idea that no pacer has scored 20 points is insane. And I understand that the matchups are tough, and they're playing great defense. but those two need to score for you to win. We'll say one of the things that took place after this game, and I agree with you, was Rick Carlisle took to the podium,

and you never really know, especially when you're in the NBA finals and things are so high stakes. You never know how coaches are going to react to any manner of questions. But somebody posed a question to him and even asked him about Caruso and Wiggins last night. And I thought Rick Carlyle gave, like, the most measured, like,

a glowing review of Oklahoma City. Like, I'm just going to let you hear what Rick Carlisle had to say last night when he was asked about the way this game played out. And Caruso and Wiggins, I mean, both of them outscored everybody on his team. I mean, what can you say, you know, their depth? Obviously, Wiggins comes in as a big game for them. Caruso hits some big shots. I mean, how do you guys, how can you guys respond better to those things as far as you guys go offensively?

Well, first of all, you know, Wiggins and Caruso played great. Those guys played great. I thought, I thought the atmosphere, I thought their crowd was exceptionally great. And so as we go home, we're going to need our crowd to be just like this crowd was. I mean, these fans took it to another level tonight. And that's how Gainbridge is going to have to be, you know, for us to have a time. chance to be successful. And, you know, Caruso and Wiggins, as you mentioned, both those guys shot it well. They caused other problems. They ran well. They made plays. They got a great feel for

when to cut, and they hurt you in a lot of different ways. And so, you know, but, you know, Shea, you can you can mark down 34 points before they even get on the plane tomorrow, you know, for the next game. I mean, the guy's going to score. We got to find ways to make it as tough as possible on him. You know, Williams played really well tonight. All their guys played well. And so, you know, we're going to have to do a lot of things better. About as nice as you could possibly be about the way it all played out, right?

And the one thing that stands out to me is he went out of his way to talk about the environment that was there in Oklahoma City. You know very well, I am a champion of the small market, and I have covered many playoff games in a town like Memphis. And I have been to playoff games in Oklahoma City back in the Durant Westbrook days. Unbelievable environment. And I will say that while this is not the sexiest finals matchup in the world, I do think home court advantage in this particular series is bigger because small markets have more rowdy environments. They are louder. They are more intense.

It matters more. And most importantly, and you know this better than anyone because we did the show two weeks ago after you had to spend literally a small fortune to go by yourself to sit at the top of Madison Square Garden. No real people can afford that with like Oklahoma City. There's families of four. I told you when I went there, I went to the playoffs game and there's families of four walking in. And dad's got a Thabo Cephaloosa, Jersey, and mom's got a Stephen Adams. And the kids have Durant and Westbrook.

And then there's a little baby with a hardened jersey on. It's like they're all walking in as a family holding hands. And it's like the point is a family of four. I went to game three here when it was Memphis versus Oklahoma City. And Jacoby, I'll tell you, if I like, most years, including this year, like, I'll buy my, I'll buy my wife and two kids, both tickets just to go. Like I'll just buy them tickets. And it's not,

does it cost me a fortune for them to go? And they've got pretty good seats to go. And it's like anybody can do it, right? When you're in a small market, when you're not in one of these big cities. And so you get a lot of the, it's kind of like in the big markets, when it gets to the highest level,

you get a lot of times like a Super Bowl. crowd. You know what I mean? Where it's like the law firm, the partners at the law firm have seats. They showed up and they literally showed up. They don't have a Patrick Ewing jersey on. They've got their suit on.

They literally walked from the office. One thing that I really love about these two cities and going to games in these cities is you can walk from downtown to the arena. I hate it when it's a 45 minute drive or you have to take public transit or whatever. In these two

small cities. They don't have sprawling metropolises, but they've got a busy downtown central district and you can go to the restaurant. You go to the restaurant at 6 o'clock or whatever, you leave at 8, you walk right there. You just walk. No cabs or nothing. Four or five blocks and then you're in the arena.

They're downtown arenas, which I love about these two cities. Well, I remember vividly from this playoff run the night that you you FaceTime me because you had to do the Spotify event. This is during one of the Knicks twins and you had gone to a bar close to where Madison Square Garden was.

It was a road game too. It was a road game. Yeah. And oh, it was a road game? Yeah. And then you went outside and everybody. And it's like of the of all that is the rowdiest of all the rowdies. And I bet you 90% of those people never went into Madison Square Garden for a game throughout the entire playoff.

No. Right? They were all the working class fans that are out. there, watch the games. And the point is, everybody that's at games at small markets is working class, except for Jimmy Goldstein and the five celebrities, the five celebrities that are sitting courtside. Everybody else is like a regular dude.

Like, you know, like the guy, did you see that Instagram that was going around of the guy that was sitting next to Salome and Jenner during the, what's it called series? And he like owned like the biggest landscaping. company or whatever. He's like, he has a landscaping. That's what the guy has. And he looks like a guy that owns a landscaping company.

And he's sitting next to Timothy Shalameh and Kylie Jenner in the front row of the game in Indiana, right? When Pat McAfee is calling out all of the celebrities that are there via New York. Well, I love the, I love that the Bieber show up with Caitlin Clark. They've always got like, they're always like four, five deep. Like I love that in Indianapolis. Hopefully we'll get a Jalen Rose sighting. He might be at one of the games.

For sure. And you know, you see my guy Lance Stevenson, Lance Stevenson, love Lance Stevenson. He got beat by you see that. Born ready. Born ready, maybe we can get born ready involved. Hacker Lepacer Legend. I love it. But let's talk about game three a little bit.

One thing I saw in game two is Carlisle, he's a vet coach. You know what I mean? Like he's, he's seen it. Like he dabbled with a little bit of zone in the, the second half. I feel like he's testing the waters. Because we saw the nuggets be pretty successful with the zone against the thunder. And I think that's

like, it's like your third pitch as a baseball pitcher. Like, you know what? I'm not going to, not every badder's going to see it, but it's just a change of tempo. It's just a little something that I can throw out in a big spot. If we're down six in the fourth, I'm just going to throw some zone out there. I felt like he

dipped his toe in the zone water. And I think we'll see more of it in game three. Yes. I think judiciously they will try it, but I will say in the Minnesota series I thought oh God, Denver ruined this for everybody. They shot the wad and they struggled so bad

Oklahoma City struggled so badly against it that then by the time they got to Minnesota and they're like, oh, zone! All right, run from the baseline. Here's a dunk, here's this, right? And so it was like, oh man, like, you let him see it, right? Like, so now they, I just thought they have a counter. I thought by the time they got to Minnesota, it was like, oh, this trip this up against Denver. So for sure somebody else is going to try this.

Here's what we're doing when they do it. And to that point, I thought that Carlisle said something that a lot of people won't pick up on that I thought he was absolutely right about. And they actually mentioned this in the broadcast. Alex Caruso's cutting. Like, he's not just standing at the three point line. No. Knocking down catch and shoot threes. And again, that's a role that every team needs,

that every team has a guy except for the magic that just sits there and catch and shoots threes, right? But Caruso gets behind the defense. He times his cuts. He waits until the defender just takes his eye off him for a second. And his teammates are so good at finding him and he finishes or he gets fouled. I thought that his cutting was a key to this game. and against a zone,

it is that type of player that can make your zone look really foolish. He runs the baseline so well. It's kind of like Aaron Gordonish, but a smaller Aaron Gordon. It's like he's like a Dunker Spot King, a short king,

but Dunker Spot King. Well, and then he is, I mean, he's absolute death if he's going to knock down the open threes. Yeah, I mean, you're not. Because he's killing you defensively. You want, look. Let me look at what Wiggin.

was. I think Wiggins was like, I got it. Ridiculous. What was Wiggins from the floor, from the three? Five for eight. Like, what are we talking about? And Caruso was four for eight. Like, that can't, I mean, that's not going to happen again.

Five for eight and four for eight? You know, I was reading the thing this morning. Because we got the draft coming up in three weeks now, right? I was reading this thing about Aaron Wiggins, of course, every time somebody goes off in a spot that big. that it's going to be extra attention on him.

It'd be like, oh, if you don't know about Aaron Wiggins, he's the 55th pick in the draft. Jesus. He's a 55th pick in the draft. He's the fourth leading scorer on a 68 win basketball team. He's not the fourth-leading score. You see, yes. Per game in the regular season?

Yeah, I'm almost positive. I'm trying to think. I think he's fourth. Well, you've got Chet, J-dub, and S-G-E-S-E. And I think he's fourth. I'll go check against that. I'm trying to think of who else it would be. Just to make sure I'm right.

But I'm almost, that's when I was reading this morning. I was like 30 point games from time of time. I was like, I was like, bro, imagine you get your, I mean, that's how you do it. When you get the 55th pick to be that good. Like those are the ones that it's like, okay, yeah, you hit on, you hit on Jayla Williams. And of course, Chet was the number two pick of the draft. And was Caruso drafted? And then you got Nemhard who's a second round pick,

who's got the keys to the car and the final possessions of the game and game one in the finals. All right, just pulled it up. Gildes Alexander, 33 points a game. We'll round up on these. Right? I mean, this is for the season, for the season, 32.7. I mean, one MVP.

Yeah. Points. Jalen Williams, 21.6. Chet 15. Aaron Wiggins, 12. He's the fourth. He's the fourth leading score on a 68 win team. He shot 49% from the field, 38% from three for the season.

And again, I mean, he was the 50th pick in the draft. Been in the league for three years. Crazy. Imagine you hit, I mean, you, whoever, like, you, people have turned off the draft. Oh, hell. The hit rate on that is like so low. Oh, that's whenever they trade like second round picks. I'm like, that's insignificant.

It's like, oh, they trade such and such and such and such and such and such and a second round pick. I'm like, what, that's insignificant. Generally, second round picks are pretty insignificant. Okay. And you said that you watched it back this morning. You didn't watch the entire thing, right? No, I did. Oh, because I'm going to fast forward to commercial breaks.

Okay. I'm going to make a confession here. I'm making a confession. safe space I turned it off when Johnny Furphy came in Furphy

I did there's four minutes left I said okay I've seen Pacers games where Furfee's in like real minutes I got it I was like Rick

is and this I stand by I stand by this if you don't care I don't care I don't care I mean yeah

if you don't care I don't come on bro Johnny Furby like they and by the way it was that there was this weird overlap

where he put in Johnny Furphy and the crew and Oklahoma City still had their guys in so you had this moment where Johnny Furphy was Garting. I was like, okay, we're done here. I don't need that. On the call was like time of death, 936 Central.

Furfies in the game. Yeah. It was a classic game too when the road team wins game one. I mean, no one really expected them to go 2 and O on the road to start the finals. And I felt like it was competitive at the first half. And the Pacers didn't play well. So that's why. All right.

So you and I were a little bit on the same page here. I left that game thinking I'll be shocked if we come out of Indiana and it's three to one. Me too. I don't feel like the Thunder figured something out and now it's going to be Thunder in 5. I don't do that way. I don't. And I think we're at least we talked about this after game one

and game two did not change my mind where after game one we said look, we started these finals by saying hopefully we're watching a game six in Indiana and I think that tonight made that the truth. I don't think they're going to lose four straight games. So we're going to see a game six in Indiana.

And I still feel that way. I still feel like I would be shocked if it's three to one after these two games in Indiana. And honestly, I'm a little surprised at there, I think it's four and a half for game three. Oklahoma City's favor. Oklahoma City's four and a half. That feels about right. Well, just because, just because of the way they've played in game threes. I mean, I obviously the circumstances are a little bit different.

I know Indiana has lost some game threes at home, but extenuating circumstances, they won. Memphis game three? No, no, no, no, no. Remember that? No, I got you. But Indiana won both games in Cleveland and then lost at home, won both games in New York and then lost at home.

So those are different circumstances. One, one, going back to Indiana. And, I mean, we. We've seen Oklahoma City. They were down 27 in Memphis in a game three. They got beat by a thousand in Minnesota. Yeah. Right.

So I don't think that I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that Indiana is able to win game three. And then maybe we, I mean, these, we've seen a lot of the Oklahoma City template so far. I think that the Thunder defense is special, right? No question. They're much better defense than the Pacers have faced in any round previously, right? But there's a lot more that Siakum can do, that Halliburton can do.

And Nemhard and Needsmith can get hot from three. Like, I just feel like the Pacers haven't played particularly well. And I think you have to hat tip to the thunder for that in their great defense. But there's going to be a 30-point game for Halliburton or Seacum in the series. Well, and the devil's advocate is they've been down by 15, they've been down by 20, and they shouldn't have won game one, and game two was just like what we thought it was going to be originally. And I just don't, I don't know, I just don't feel that way after watching the way game one and game two went. I didn't, and I guess it's just the way me and you viewed game one. we always thought it was in range.

Yes, it was crazy that they did it. We've got the text to prove it. Yeah. It was all we never thought they were going to lose that game by 20. It was always kind of like, bro, if they just stick around here, there's attempts. Yeah, because they are not, you can't view them being down by point the same way you can view literally anybody else in the history of the NBA. being down points because it just hasn't matter. And I also think that in Rick Carlis, what he said is he basically said without saying it,

hey, Pacers fans, you got to show up and match this energy. And we're going to need you to carry us to the victory in game three. And it's going to be a completely different environment. And I think that rewatching the game this morning because I kind of forgot about the first quarter is the Thunder played kind of tight. They played a little fetusy in that first quarter. They were kind of like, we need this one. and it seemed like they were a little tight. And then obviously in the second quarter, they opened it up and went on that 19-2 run.

But I could see a world in which the pace is wire-to-wire win game three. Because you're not playing the Steph-Dremont-Clay Warriors or one of these teams, it's like, it's old hat or the LeBron teams from way back where it's like, all right, the finals have an Evan Flo, and we'll crank it up. And we've got to crank it up like the Thunder having to do this for the first time as well. this is all and this is going to be their first NBA finals road game playing in a this kind of stakes in a hostile environment and there's just no way that that doesn't affect you it affects even the best of the best and the ones that have done it before um you know we

we we've seen that uh over the course of time and so i don't know i yeah i don't know the way. I was surprised at the line for game three and maybe that should inform things. And maybe they did just catch on to something. I don't know. But I still will stand by. I will be shocked if we come out of that 3-1. I mean, I think we're getting 2-2. I don't love to predict the outcome of games. I mean, I do it

because it's part of the gig. But like a lot of times, I if I'm just like out in the streets or on the subway and someone's like, who's going to win tonight? I'm just like, I don't know, man. Like, I could see it going either way and I could. I think the Pacers win game three. I think they do.

I think the crowd, those shots that just weren't going in are going to go in. I think the Pacers win game three. Well, it's an adjustment thing. And also one of the things we can say for not only the Pacers, but Rick Carly, they have gotten better as these series have gone on.

Yep. The longer the series is, going on, the more they've figured things out, the better they've looked. Yeah. You know, they have not been one of those teams that, like, looked great at the beginning and then faltered as it went on. In fact, they looked stronger

as it went on. We ended up leaving series being more impressed with the Pacers after adjustments were made and things started to get figured out because they've got a guy that's great at figuring out stuff. I believe in Carlisle. I believe in Carlisle.

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All right, a couple other NBA notes that we've got to get to. some terrible injury news that's taken place. June is not a month where we should be getting bad news. No. We don't even, there's only two teams playing, and we ain't got nothing until summer league, right?

And it's not even like, like off-season injuries usually happen, like as you get like August. Yeah. Or September when people are like working out. This is like when people are like in the Caribbean or in Europe. Theoretically, except Zach Eadie.

evidently turned his ankle, and it's now multiple times. It started in Summer League last year in Utah, and then it happened. And then he didn't play, and then I was there in Vegas, and we're all excited. It's like Zach Eady in Vegas, getting to see him and show up at the game. Game starts, and he turns it again. And he's laying on the thing, and he yells, I just want to effing play. God. Right.

And then got into the season and he did it again. And then evidently he's done it again. And so that ligament is just shot. And so now he's got to get surgery to repair the ligament in his ankle. And that is not a short one. That's a six to eight month one. Damn, really? And so, yeah, he'll miss the beginning.

He'll miss the first portion of the season next year. And it's also a seven foot five guy getting an ankle. Slow heavy big guys with foot injuries have a long bad history in the NBA. Well, luckily, so I talked to my guy Jeff Stott, who's in street clothes on Twitter, and he's great. And he always helped dumb it down for me to explain the way this goes. And he said, and he's got a big database of all kinds of NBA entries. He was like, the big guys that he looked at that had gotten this done, it doesn't really apply because they had already had like pretty bad foot injuries before it happened. Yao Ming, Brooke Lopez.

But that's not ankles really. Those are more like planter fasciitis and stuff like that. But they had also had ankle issues as well. Dante DiVincenzo was one that he found. The 21-22 season, I believe it was. He went back and he found that DeVincenzo, a DeVincenzo. Devinchenzo, even then... Is that Buck Steven Chenzo or Warriors team Chenzo?

Yeah, 21, I'm sorry, 21-22 season said he missed six and a half months when he needed surgery. Still not a great comp because Devincento is obviously not seven foot five months. But it sucks. It sucks. And hopefully Zach Edie is going to be able to make a full recovery. But the Grizzly slow play injuries anyway. So next season will start and Zach Eadie will not be the starting center for Memphis

for a good portion of time because we're right now in June, even if he gets the surgery now, if you're talking about 6 to 8 months, I mean, longer than that, it's June. Yeah. I mean, so you're talking about, yeah, at best. So, I mean, you're missing a match.

And again, you're slow playing it. And the last thing on earth you want to do is bring back a 7 foot 5 guy with a surgically repaired ankle. You're not bringing him back. You're not bringing him back until he's 110%. Right? I thought Zach Edie's rookie year was exactly what you thought Zach Eadie's rookie year was going to be. There were certain times where you would just watch him just like, you know,

whoever job would miss a shot and he would just be the biggest guy down under the basket, and he would just get it and put it back in. And it just feels like, oh, that's an, look at unstoppable. there's other times where they would put him in pick and roll and he looked like he didn't belong on the NBA floor. And I thought that for a rookie, he was exactly who we thought he was going to be. Deris Garland, they announced that he's going to get toe surgery.

So that's four to five months. So maybe he'd be able to be back by the beginning of the season or close to. What's interesting about this one is Wendy is on the air saying that they're open to sort of offers or conversations about moving him. And then the next day we get this news, which those two things are connected. Because if you're not, if you're trying to make offers for Darius Garland, it changes everything if he's not available for four or five months.

He's got a toe issue. I actually would zag on that one. You think it makes it more likely for him to get moved? Yes. Because he needs a surgery. No, no, because he needs the surgery. Because he needs the surgery. So it's like, bro, I'm not.

No, he's going to fail a physical. If I trade for him, he's going to fail a physical. So go ahead and get this done. Like, you've got to get toe surgery, get the toe surgery, because we want to be able to tell everybody that you're going to be available for next season, which he will because he gets it done right now. He wants to be available for next season, and theoretically, whoever would trade for him wants him to be available.

And I told you about two weeks ago when I saw that rumor at one point, I was like, I don't even care if it's true or not. It makes all the sense of the world. That whole Suggs and Garland framework. Yeah, I was like, it just, it all makes too much sense. That would be perfect. And obviously because of Mobley winning defensive player of the year and because of the amount of money that Cleveland is paying for a roster

that did not make it to the conference finals and needs to make, and obviously does not have things that fit the best for playoff basketball. I wouldn't be surprised if they would make some. Mitchell and Garland really remind me of C.J. McCollum and Dame Lillard. Totally. Where two excellent NBA basketball players that are great, but they're just not meant to be the back court because of the defensive liabilities and size. Right.

And again, like I like Darius Garland. I think he's a good defender as well. but like it's just hard to have garland and Mitchell the same way it was hard to have Lillard and McCollum and be successful. Yeah, the perimeter defense is just, I mean, there's a, there's a limit to funneling it to two bigs. Yeah, that's what they were doing. That's what they were doing, funneling it to two bigs because they didn't have anybody on the perimeter that could stay in front of anybody.

And I think NBA players are so sophisticated now. The floater works, the pull-up mid-range works. Like, if you can't guard anybody, look at the bucks. If you can't guard anybody on the perimeter, your defense is shot no matter how good your bigs are in the middle. Yep. A couple other things want to mention. The Hawks bringing in Ansi Sala,

who is the general manager. He was under Landry Field, who they blew out of there. And he brought in Bryson Graham, who was in the front office for the Pelicans and Peter Dinwiddie, who's in the front office for the 76ers. And I don't expect everybody, you know, to have a keen awareness of all of those names. The point is this, when you are elevating one guy to the job,

and then he is bringing in two other guys from other organizations that have been evaluating and drafting talent at these other organizations or whatever else, you now have an entire contingent in Atlanta that none of them are married to that roster. Yes, rarely do things like this happen, they have a meeting and say, you know what, let's just stay the course. You know what? They're like, these guys don't get into a conference room and say, yeah, I love this roster. Let's just stay the course. The only question is going to be, are we still a build-out around Trey team or not?

And if they called your phone on a group text, they group text, you, Chris Burnin, we listen to the mismatch twice a week. I'm sure they do. We really respect your opinion. Yep. Should we continue to build around Trey Young? What would your answer be? Yes. In the meantime.

Yeah. In the meantime, I, come on. I don't think Trey Young's the problem. I know a lot of people do. I don't think Trey Young's your problem I don't think you're going to get

value for him that's going to be worth training I think I think I would look at it and I'd go I've got Trey Young I've got Jaylon Johnson I've got Trey Young

Jalen Johnson and Risa Shea. Yeah I thought Risa Shee showed some signs like he looked like he looked like a number one pick a couple times this year I would say I've got those three guys and we nailed it with Dyson Daniels.

So we got another one, right? I got four I care about, I think. This is just going off the top of my head. You could probably say I should care about a Congre or I should care about this guy or that guy. Honestly, off the top of my head, I would look at that and I would go, it's Jalen Johnson, it's Reese, Shea,

it's Dyson Daniels, it's Trey, and it's like, okay, like I've got, I don't think, I think I can still build out a roster around these guys and like, I've got good player. I've got some good players here. You know? And I think I build out around that first

before I would just decide, okay, I'm not married to, again, I don't expect you to be married to a roster that wasn't successful. That being said, I do think there's a way to build out. And I also think that if Jalen Johnson would have been healthy, they would have been a solid-ass playoff team.

That's what I think. I don't think there's a big gap between the Pistons and the Hawks in the Eastern Conference. And I also think there's a lot of opportunity in the Eastern Conference, which has been covered very well with who knows what it's going to have with Yannas and who knows what's going to have with the Celtics, that there's an opportunity where I can see them being a three-seed next year

if things break right for them. And you make a couple good deals, hit a draft pick, you know, you never know. I think Daniels and Young makes sense together in a way that like Garland and Mitchell don't. It's like, we've got the offensive guy. We've got the defensive guy. Right. You know what I mean?

It's like, that's what we got. We got the offensive guy. We got the defensive guy. Complementary pieces. Yeah, they're going to try to get Tray Young and switches. And you got some long wings that can score and transition and you got a good coach. And I just, yeah, I would, I would marry myself to a small core of guys that aren't on crazy contracts yet, except for one of them. And then I'd build out around that because I just don't think you would get the,

I don't think there's some kind of massive market for Trey Young anyway. And so I would. I think Trey Young doesn't get celebrated enough for what a good passer he is. His lobs, his pocket passes, his no looks. When he drives and hits corner three point shooters, like he's, he is a, he's a high usage guy, which is the quote unquote, heliocentric or hero ball or whatever you want to call it. So it rubs people the wrong way, but he's a great passer in this tribunal. I would, and here's again, I probably, I know there's a lot of people that wouldn't agree with me, but like, I look at it and I go, all right, I got a playoff game next year.

There ain't that many guys in the Eastern Conference I won over Trey Young that night. I'm sorry. There's not. It's not a, it's not. I have a name of you, for sure. No, a few, but I'm saying the Eastern Conference stinks. Five or six. Kay Brunson,

Adam, Janice, I got it. Mitchell. It's not that many, though. Yeah, I would rather have him

than Tyler Hero. I'm just trying to think of playoff, playoff teams in the East. He's had some playoff moments too. Oh, yeah, right here,

right down the street. All right. Let's talk about right down the street. What is this chasing kid shit? What? Who watched the Knicks and were like, we're Jason Kidd away from championship contention? What?

What? Did people forget? You think it's just a, you think it's just a Brunson thing? Like where it's like, you know, I don't know, dude.

It's like they, they'd be so comfortable with him. And you'd have to like trade for him. Like, I just don't understand how Jason Kidd's name is associated with this position. Why? Why? Why?

How did this happen? Who reported this? Is this real? Here's the other thing. It's like, what I love is the Knicks have, or, you know, the report was they're going to ask for permission to talk to, you know, Dallas or whatever. And it's like, bruh, you just fired Tom Tibado. you are asking permission to hire Jason kids or you are asking permission to hire they're not going to interview like there's no like to talk to him like hey Jason would you

hey Jason let's let's let you just sell them on the job like it's literally a hey man are you pissed off about the Luca thing do you want to get away from the dumpster fire that is uh you know, well, what's a guy's name? I just drew a blank. Nico. Yeah. Or do you want to coach Cooper flag and the rest of that group, you know, or I don't know. Like, I don't.

I don't understand. I don't understand why Jason Kidd's name is being associated with this job. And why would Houston ever let email you joke? It's honestly, it's like these people have contracts and jobs. Did you guys? It's just odd. Did they not know who they were going to hire? So I've had some time to think about this.

I got to believe it's just going to end up being Jason Kidd. I think what happened is in those exit interviews, a bunch of players were like, fuck Tom Tivodeo. Probably. And I think that after they heard it two or three times from important players in the starting lineup, they're like, I don't think we can run this back with this guy.

Well, and emotions are so high. Exactly after you lose to the pace. It's literally the next day. And you're pissy and it's probably like you haven't really gotten to think it through. I just, my inclination is to believe that we will see the report that Jason kids

going to be their coach. I can't believe that would all leak out like that. Like that feels like one of those things that had to have already been worked out. It has to have been. But do you remember how it ended in Brooklyn with Jason Kidd and how it ended in Milwaukee with Jason Kidd. It's like people forget.

Like, those he, those those were contentious endings. Well, and maybe. They went to the finals last year, but that was that was Luca ball. Luke and you know, the other part of it was,

you know who ushered in Janus to the NBA. Oh, that part is ridiculous too. How is, how is, someone show me a deal that makes sense for Milwaukee that sends Janus to the Knicks. Someone show me a deal.

Because I've seen, we all fall all the same accounts. We've all seen the graphics with the potential deals, the trade machine people that make it work or whatever. None of them, I'm like, oh, yeah, the bucks. They want to be in the Carl Anthony Towns business. Like, why? Why? Why would Milwaukee do that?

Why? Why? Trade Yonnas for Carl Anthony Towns and McHale Bridges? Why would you send that to the league if you're the bucks? Why? Look, it doesn't make sense. Oh, well, Jason Kidd and Janus, they got along for the four years. They were together in Milwaukee.

The only way it makes sense is if Janus asked them to. And they wanted to do right by Janus. And so they tried to figure out a way to make it happen. But let's game that out. No, I got it. Janus comes to me and says, I want to go to the New York Knicks. Janice, I really appreciate how open and honest you've been with us through this process. We appreciate everything you've done for the team in the city of Milwaukee.

but I'm not trading you for Carl Entry Towns, my guy. No, I got you. I'm just not doing that. I'll trade you somewhere else and get a bunch of picks and young players. I don't know. But Carl Anthony Town is going to make $61 million in three years. Why would you trade Janus for Carl Anthony Town? Dude, I'm just telling you strange things happen in the NBA.

Sure. By the time it was all said, and dumb Pat Riley probably hated Jimmy Butler's guts, but he still traded him for Andrew Wiggins. and some bullshit. Slow-mo. Kyle Anderson. It's like, why?

Why would you trade Jimmy Butler for Andrew Wiggins? And if you're the wrongs or the mavericks, why would you trade your coach for what? And why? I've just got to. The email stuff was weird.

I was like, what? I've got to believe that that was, that the kid stuff has been worked out. That just seems foolishness for it to leak out like that. Then for like, I mean, for them fire tibs.

It's like, okay, if you want Jason Kidd to be your coach and Jalen Brunson and they want them to be a coach and they want to play for Jason Kidd. Jason Kidd wants to come back to New York and he's, you know, he ain't got Luca no more, so he doesn't care about that job anymore. So I got it. Didn't Kyrie say he wasn't playing next year? I saw that report.

That was weird. You never know with him. But it feels like he should be available by like January or February, right? I got it, but he might have said that it. He's like, I'm playing. Really? Yeah, but who knows? He might have just been talking into the wind.

We're playing with a dream catcher in South Dakota when he said it. But there's a world. You never know. You never know. There's a world where the Mavs are like a really tough out next year. Yeah. Oh yeah. There's a world where it's like flag is like popping.

And you've got, you know, Anthony Davis, you know, and Kyrie. And like there's a world where the Mavs are like a formidable basketball team. There's also a world where a 34-year-old or whatever he is, Anthony Davis, He's never plays. Cooper flag is miserable. He's like 17 years old, averaging seven points a game going 314. And Clay Thompson's pissed off.

Clay Thompson's angry. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, there's a world where everybody on the roster except for Cooper Flag asked for a trade. Every single person, every single person. There's one more thing I wanted to hit before we go. Yeah, anything else stand out to you? Pictures of Victor Wimbunyama.

Oh, I thought for sure. you said pictures you were going to say of Luca Dantzich? No. Oh, he's looking lean. Dude, that's just camera angles, man. It's not. It's just angles. No, angles cannot make your face look that.

I'm so excited for the Luca Dantzic era. He's going to be ripped. He's Osepigd-you-Rip. Well, you go to L.A. I mean, come on. Yeah, you got to get that Osempic. He's going to have a face lift. I mean, hell, I saw a picture of Jonah Hill the other day.

he's 120 pounds. Have you seen those? Yes, I don't like it. I don't like it. So, I mean, hey, L.A. could do some crazy things, too. I lived a much healthier lifestyle

when I live in Los Angeles. You just end up like drinking green juices and eating salads. Yeah. And New York is just beer and burgers and pizza. All right, so what picture? Pictures of Victor Wimbunyama. This guy's at a Shaolin temple in China.

In monk robes. Hanging out with monks. Like, Victor Women Yama, he's, when he speaks, he speaks like he's like a 65 year old man. Like, he's just wise beyond his years. He's so measured. He's so put together. And the idea that like half of the league is on a yacht in Ibiza, you know, doing whatever they're doing over there, going to nightclubs and, you know, and Stefan digsing their way through their offseason. And then this guy's like, you know what I'm going to do?

I'm going to go to a Shaolin Temple in China and shave my head. and eat and sleep with monks. This guy has it. Oh, oh, you went, uh, you, oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. You love the Shaolin monk. I was Victor Luz Binyama for all October, all November. But the Shaolin monk thing, the idea that's what he's doing with his free time is like

sitting cross-legged in silence in a Shaolin temple. I mean, come on. 2026 champions I mean are you but are you talking out of both sides your mouth here is it totally dependent on the individual no it's also like if

if the Wu Tang never said the word Shaolin I would have been know what a Shaolin temple was okay how about this to be honest with you let's say same exact picture but it's Aaron Rogers total clown doing it for the gram total clown should probably retire

and we should probably never hear from him again. But the fact that it's Ficturebemba, yum. That makes it cool. That makes it cool. Yeah, I think you're right. And the part where they said he was eating with them, I was like, oh, he ate meals with the monks? Wow.

You kind of want to do it, don't you? Yeah. Yeah, I feel like you watch food. I do. I do. I wonder what they eat. I don't know. Oh, I'm sure they eat healthy things, protein plant plant based protein i'm gonna go i'm gonna go i'm gonna gogoal it right now while we're out of

what do mons diet eat no no shalyn do showlin monks eat all right hold on says chowel of monks typically follow a vegetarian diet that emphasizes simplicity and nourishment yeah rice vegetables tofu nuts and seeds fruit and soup they try to avoid meat dairy products, eggs, and processed food. And flavor. Yeah. They need some adobe. So they're like David Gagins.

Walter Gagins. Big, big year from Victor Wenbi Nami next year. Shalin Muggs. All right. It's going to do it for today's show. We will reconvene on Thursday night. Thank you to our executive producer, Jesse Lopez, as always. Thanks to our video producer Tucker and Jacoby.

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