The Mismatch - Gearing Up for the NBA Draft, Players on the Move, and Potential Sleepers

Episode Date: June 21, 2022

With the draft just days away, Verno and KOC discuss whether the top of the order is set in stone, or if we should expect moves to be made (00:56). Anything can happen in the draft, as KOC mentions some names we could see on new teams next season (10:00). The guys discuss how teams use numbers to scout players, and potential low-risk, high-reward prospects (20:07). Finally, they go through Dyson Daniels’s NBA potential, Paolo Banchero playing football, and KOC gives his thoughts on some of the lesser-known prospects (40:16). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, Rob Harvilla from 60 Songs That Explain the 90s here to inform you that we are back with 30 more songs because the 90s were super long and had a ton of rad music. Please join us every Wednesday for more 60 songs that explain the 90s only on Spotify. Welcome to The Mismatch. I'm Chris Barney. Join me see does every Tuesday from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, A.K. Kevin Obama, Kevin O'Connor, Kevin O'Conner, Kevin O'Cannibus, Kevin O'Cannibus. Kevin O'O. Hurdo! It's draft week. It is NBA draft week, and I know you went on with Mark Stein yesterday in a Spotify deal.

And I heard the beginning of it. I'm going to start with that, where Stein said he has a mock draft, and it goes to three. And he said, Jabari Smith is going to go number one to Orlando. Chet Holmgren is going to go number two to Oklahoma City. And the number three pick is going to be Paulo Bencaro going to the Houston Rock. And then after that, who knows. But he said, those three things I am confident of. And I immediately parked up because it is one thing for everybody to do mock drafts.

It is another to say, I'm confident of these things taking place. Because as word filters around the NBA, there does become some level of confidence of what's going to happen with these picks. Do you feel the same? Would it be surprising to you if those three picks were not the picks in that order? I mean, I think that'll be the order.

I mean, there's always a higher percent chance of no trades than trades. Sure. But discussions have been had between Houston and Orlando, Houston and Oklahoma City to move up to either one or two to assure that they get the guy that they want. and theoretically Orlando could move down to three

and still get Javari Smith the guy that they want. So maybe those players end up on those teams, but somebody could shift spots to assure that they get a certain player. But I think generally, I just do think that that is the most likely scenario, that that's what happens. It's really at number four with the Kings pick. Everybody's trying to move up to number four to get Jaden Ivy.

So that's really where things get interesting, but we'll see what happens in that top three. Things could shift slightly. Yeah, let's get to four because most people have Jaden Ivy going as the player. But I think very few think that that player will be with the Sacramento Kings. That the Kings could use that as an asset that is the pick rather than whatever player you would get there. And while there is some level of interest, obviously from Detroit, who is right behind them in Jaden Ivy, who Jaden Ivy said he has worked out for Detroit and he has worked out for Orlando. So those are the team.

He had not. He hadn't with Sacramento. He hadn't with Oklahoma City. He hadn't with Houston. So Ivy had, you know, I guess the simplest would be a 5-4. depending upon if there's anything there in Detroit that they would be willing to give up that Sacramento would want because Sacramento evidently has some interest in Keegan Murray, that if they kept that pick, they might not even take an Ivy anyway.

So this whole draft starts with the Kings, and the Kings are a very likely team to maybe move out of their pick rather than select a player there. what do you think it's going to take to get that pick? A mixture of proven players and picks. That's what the Kings want. They're trying to make the playoffs, but they're also still trying to develop some young players. So, you know, like if it's Indiana,

if Indiana moves up from six to four, they're throwing Brogden around in every single trade discussion they have. So maybe it's six plus Brogden plus something else to get the number four. It's Oklahoma City from number 12 that moves up to number four. Maybe it's something like Lou Dort with Kendritch Williams and the 12th pick and another future first to move up to number four.

So I like the Kings just want players, good players, guys who they feel like they can rely on as part of their rotation around Deerne Fox and DeMontasabona. So for them, they're in that position. I mean, I don't know if they'll end up moving the fourth pick. They very well might just stay there. And Jonathan Gavoni from ESPN reported that Jaden and Ivy, his preferred destination is not Sacramento, which I've

consistently heard as well. I believe it was reported the other day that Dyson Daniels canceled his pre-draft interview with the Kings at number four. Forgive me, I forget who reported that. I might have been Cunningham in Sacramento who reported

that. So for the Kings, they're in a spot at number four where, unfortunately for them, there are still some prospects who don't want to go there. But whether it's Idy or whether it's Daniels, I'm not so sure the fit with the Aaron Fox. And after draft Devion Mitchell last year makes all that much sense for those guards anyway. So we'll see what they do.

We'll see. They have a lot of different options. A lot of teams want to trade up the number four, Chris, for Jade and Ivy, who you like, right? Yeah, I love Jayden Ivy, for sure. I think he's one of those guys that's going to be a much better pro than he was even at college. Because his level of athleticism and explosion is very, very rare. It's rare. and I think guys like that have they got good heads on their shoulders have an unbelievable chance of being not only good but great in the NBA.

I think the deal, I think with, I think Stein reported that the Sacramento thing with Ivy was that he's like reped by the same people that rep Halliburton. And so obviously that's a, that's a sore subject. right they just traded haliburton out of out of Sacramento where he was like he's like the one guy that was like I want to be part of the solution I'm putting down my roots here they haven't made the playoffs

15 plus years and I'm gonna I'm gonna be part of fixing that and then you know unbeknown like he was legitimately crushed to get traded and for what it's worth he he's with they don't have the same same agent, but they were the same agency.

CAA. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is, you know, a lot of players. Sure, right. And so I guess it says the reason that he may not want to be there. It hasn't been a great place, Atlantic spot for draft prospects to say the least. I wonder what they're going to get. If they do move it, maybe they'll just stay. Is there anybody that's in the top 10 that you are convinced won't pit?

in their spot. Or you think it is highly like outside of the king. If there's anybody else that you don't think that they're going to use that as a pick, but rather use that as an asset. I'm not sure what you mean? Just the, you mean... Anybody else in the top 10

that you think will use that as an asset in a trade rather than to select a player. Moving out of that top 10. do you think Portland just takes a player at seven or do they try to get up and then if they can't get up, now they're moving it for something. I mean, if you are going to try to build around Dame in the short term,

isn't it more valuable to use that seven as an asset than whatever player you could bring in? All of these teams are having, you know, different trade conversations right now. And like New Orleans is the team that comes to mind that you mentioned. They could be a trade down, but not out. I mean, I think Portland would be the only trade out candidate at seven, but even then, unless it's Ogen and Obedee,

I just don't see them trading that pick. And I don't see the rappers for it's worth trading this OGNanoby for the seventh pick either. So I think that's just the type of caliber move they'd be looking for to move out. Other than that, it's teams that are trying to trade up, you know, into the late lottery or into the mid-lottery. Like for Charlotte, they have 13 and 15. team, they'd love to move into the top 10. Maybe they are able to move into the top 10 at New Orleans at number eight,

something like that. But ultimately, a lot of these teams that have multiple first round picks, Memphis included, Denver as well, at 21 and 30, 22 and 29 for Memphis, those teams are trying to get into the late lottery. So, I mean, it's going to be, there could be a lot of movement on draft night, but there's always a lot of discussion and then sometimes nothing happens. but this year it definitely does seem like in kind of a draft class in which

the guy that you like at five another team might have him at 14 the guy that you have at 15 another team might have him at 28 so in that type of year where there's kind of like these large chunks of prospects that you can throw into a single group you know of near equal value

you're going to see teams doing their best to shift around in that area to maximize the value they get while also getting the prospect they still I saw where John Wasserman said this morning that, and this is a continuation of a lot of the news that has come out, that when you talk to people around the league, they think it's going to be extremely active and there could be a massive amount of player movement. And he said he thought that once it gets to like 11, like 11 to 30, there is not what he senses this tremendous amount of confidence in that 11 to 30. and so if teams can't get their guy, whoever they target, that they would be maybe more likely this year than another years

to try to get a pick for next year because people are in love with the 2023 draft. Have you heard that sentiment out about, clearly we've talked about the big French kid, who is the prize of prizes? But this idea that the 2023 class has a chance to be very special, and maybe a better draft class. So if you can't get the guy that you target,

I could see that. I could see, you know, people liking next year's draft class better than this one. And so if they can't get their guy, they're willing to move it for a pick in next year's draft. What do you think? Yeah, I mean, especially because there are six teams of more than one pick

in the first round too. So some of those teams might be in a position where, you know, they end up wanting to move one of those and just, you know, parlay it into a pick next year and then have multiple first rounders in 2023 instead. So, yeah, there's a real possibility of that. You know, we'll see. Like there could be a lot of movement. I mean, it definitely does start at 11 with the Knicks.

Like a lot of teams are trying to move into that spot. The Knicks also are trying to trade up. They're trying to get up to number four to get Jane and Ivy. But they also might be a team that could be a target for your Memphis Grizzlies or the Denver Nuggets. to move up to the 11 spot, and then they get two first rounders instead of one. So, I mean, yeah, I mean, there could be a lot of that movement with teams training out, out, up, down.

It could be fun. I hope it's fun. I like trades. Who doesn't like trades? Oh, everybody loves it. It's going to be a tremendous matter. And I think part of it is that you've got, you know, we said this a few weeks ago,

there are a few teams that aren't competing, that aren't trying to win. And so if that is so, then you have less, you have more teams that are trying to fix their roster between this, you've got two chances the draft and free agency

and the draft is where more trades take place so that you could really revamp your team over the course of the next two weeks and with not as many teams unloading players to try to rebuild.

There's very few rebuilds that are going on. Teams are trying to acquire even good players. And that's why we talked about the Kings at four. What about players that could be on the move? A lot of John Collins buzz that's out there. O.G. and Inobes' names come up.

The Pacers guys, Brockton, has come up. Maybe Cozma with Washington has come up. Is there anybody that you think likely could be involved in a trade on Thursday night? I don't know about Thursday night, but there is a lot of Rudy Gobert stuff out there. You know, the Chicago stuff has been out there. I've heard Minnesota likes Rudy Gobert. They also like Clint Capella. Minnesota does.

So, I mean, there's a lot of Gober stuff out there. And I mentioned this on the Stein Spotify Live that we did on Monday. But I've heard like with Clint Capella, that's another big that teams are trying to target in trades in Atlanta. with their first round pick is also, you know, trying to move up. I've reported earlier in the week that they're one of the teams that has called up a number four pick, you know, and a pair Ivy with Trey Young. So maybe if the Kings, you know, I don't know, the Kings and, you know, and Hawks could be a match. Maybe it's John Collins that could go to Sacramento.

So, I mean, there's a good amount of names out there right now that are already in the NBA. Some of them are going to have to wait until free agency. I mean, maybe go bare well. but it's just something to keep in mind on Thursday night because that's where for a lot of these teams, like with Minnesota, they have the 19th pick. It's more easily tradable at that point. Rather than drafting the player than waiting 30 days

after they sign their working contract to be eligible to trade them, which is easier to do on draft night. So we'll see. You mentioned Gobert and Capella. Let me ask you about another big. Do you think D'Andre Aiton's going to be a Phoenix Sun next year? No. No. I don't.

So that's going to be one. but that's a little more dicey, right? Because you're going to have to wait until free agency to do something with it. Yeah, I wonder what the Sons are going to do there. I wonder, because do you think, let's say with the Sons, I don't want to go away from the draft here, but should they be going for another big,

like Flip Aitin for another big, or should they go for like, I don't know. Like, let's just say I mentioned just now, the Wolf's like Gobert. I have not heard that the Wolf's like Aiton, but let's just say they did. If you're the Sons, would you have interest in D.Lo and draft picks? No.

No. Okay. I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just throwing a name out there. So no. Yeah, no. So what would you want? I would not have, I would not have interested in that? So what would you want if you're the Sons then?

Would you want wings, guards, another big? Like, what are you looking for if you're signing, trading, DeAndre Ate, and to another team, whoever it might be. Yeah. And by the way, it's Detroit and Atlanta that seem to be the most connected to DA. Yeah, I mean, I don't think that I don't need more high price. I don't need another high priced big. I think that's what I'm getting away from, right? If I'm deciding not to pay.

I mean, and some of that is about the player himself, but a lot of it is just, is there right now, is it a fool's errand to spend a fortune on a center that's not Ambid Yokic Janus level. You know what I'm saying? Like one of those guys is that are you better off

with the the Clay Capela's the Brooke Lopez is the you can go on and on and on. The Kevon Looney's of the world, right? Or even in the draft, the Jalen Dorens, the Mark Williams, right? Like guys like that, you can draft them on a rookie contract and hopefully they can

contribute when they're young. Yeah. I mean, look, I would want, another guard for sure. Like I clearly you want to get the best players. But not ideal though. No. No. Okay.

I just don't, I think you've established like a real culture there. And I'm not sure that he's going to be a bench fit. Right. Chris Paul and Devin Booker is your all NBA caliber backboard. And so he's not going to be starting. Is he, I don't think he. He's probably to the point in his career where he's comfortable being the come off the bench guy.

I would doubt that. I would be concerned about that. And so, yeah, I mean, I think if you're Phoenix, you could go the route of spending a little less on big guys. I want more wings that can shoot for sure. You know, you got the Camp Thomas thing. Kind of came along. But Jay Crowder was hit or miss. Bridges was hit or miss, right?

I want some more stuff that can stretch the floor, too, because especially with who I've got in my back court, I like the pace and space idea with those guys. Another big that could, you know, they did all kinds of bigs that came in there and played like real minutes for them. Successful minutes. Javall McGee played good minutes for them.

Hell, even Biombo played good minutes for them. You know, I think you could just have that kind of rim runner or whoever. And then, I don't know. I don't know what you're going to get in an Aitn deal. I would think I could do better than DeAngelo Russell, though. That would be my initial opinion.

I think I could get a better player than him. It's a sign and trade, though. I mean, so in that case, you know, you wouldn't have a ton of leverage. But, I mean, we'll see. The only way you have a ton of leverage is if you've got multiple suitors. Yes.

Exactly. That's what you have to have. You have to have multiple suitors for them. You say, fine. Then we'll just move them to this team. Because we can get something good from them. And for what it's worth, I mean, like I said, I haven't heard that the wolf's like, Aiden.

Right. But I have heard they like, O'Bare. So, you know, maybe there's different combinations of deals there, you know, that that could be constructed together for something big and fun that's like an NBA 2K-style deal. Man, that would be an NBA-2-K style. I mean, you can't, you can't roll anything out in the NBA. How many crazy trades have we seen

Chris that seemed unreal, right? Yeah. I mean, there's so much turnover. Teams get so creative. Stars are always on the move. It'll be fascinating to see, especially with Utah, though. Because with them, they have Gobert and Mitchell. Gobert

there's a number of suitors for him. Mitchell, it doesn't seem like they're active in trade talks involving him despite some of the noise a couple weeks ago with him like, what's going on here? What's going on? Why is Quintyter gone? which we've known about for months, by the way,

that Quinn Snyder would have he packs. Maybe he just wasn't paying attention. With the jazz, though, they do seem like the team that they could go into rebuild mode, or at least retool mode, a younger team around Donovan Mitchell and try to make it work with him.

And, you know, maybe in a couple years, he ends up demanding a trade, but they're not at that point here where they want to move him. The NBA finals may be over, but Banduel Sportsbrook is still here. here to help you make every moment more with all your favorite sports and teams, including NBA futures and draft props. Right now, new customers can get a no-sweat first bet up to $1,000. Just sign up,

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In Arizona, call 1-800-8-8-8-9 and in Indiana, call 1-8-7-7-7-7-7-7. In Indiana, call 1-8-8-8-8-8-8-8-8-8-8-8-8-8-8-8-8-8-8-8-8-8-8-8-8-8-8-9. In West Virginia, visit 1800 gambler.net. All right, let me ask you about the draft stuff because every year, there are, there's at least one player, sometimes, it's multiple guys that start, as a draft week comes along, they start getting down-talked, right?

Whether it was Lonzo, or I'm sorry, Lamello a couple years ago, there was a segment of people that were talking him down. And then last year, there was, there's a big wave of the comminga talk, right? People were talking down Comingo. Like if you, you know, you would go down the draft and you would start talking to different people

about all these different guys. And you started to hear bad stuff about different guys as it got closer to the draft. Who has been the victim of down talk in your estimation? Like, where it just becomes group think and, you know, one guy says it, then the other guy says to another guy, and the next thing you know, everybody's saying it to each other. Is there anybody this year that has been victim of in your opinion?

No, don't think so. Where it's like, I don't know about him or I don't know about this guy, red flagged this or character this or whatever. I mean, there's always that stuff. Bad interviews. Yeah, I mean, there's always a lot of that stuff. But nobody comes to mind kind of in the context that you're asking about, no. How about higher than people that you feel like have caught a wave or players that have caught a wave recently where it seems like everybody really likes them?

Because I've been fascinated. All the Mock's have this Matherin kid like in the top fives now, top six now. So it seems like Matherin's one of them. Who else? Yeah, but like we talked about last week, Matt, Catherine's one of the ones where you're also hearing, well, what about this? What about that? He's a quiet kid. And it's just like, okay.

But Dealin Terry out of Arizona, Jaylon Williams out of Santa Clara, there are two guys that are, you know, definitely solidified themselves as top 25-ish guys. So those two, I'd say, come to mind most that have risen upboards. Other than that, I mean, I think you can see some guards fall. Like, you could see a tie-tie wall.

Washington out of Kentucky or Kennedy Chandler, but like some of those guys got like some mid-first round height. Maybe they end up falling to the back end of the first round. Eason out of LSU and LSU or forward, it'll be interesting to see where he falls, you know, somewhere after 17, I think, for him. But some people had him as like a late lotto guy. Maybe he's, I'm not so sure about him as a lottery guy right now, though. Yeah. I'm interested in the whole, you know how our buddies, John Hodg, Kevin Pelton, they do all like the analytics with all that. And so then they just, right, it is what the computer says.

And it pumps it out. And then they combine that with the scouting. And they decide where these lists go. And sometimes they like line up. And there are some guys that the stats are higher on, some guys that the stats are lower on. One of those that I've been interested in. And the reason I'm interested in this is because teams now, as you know, Kevin, there's a lot more John Hollinger's and Kevin Belton's in front offices than there was five or ten years ago.

A lot of the Sloan Conference guys in these front offices. And so I do wonder how much the analytical analyses of players is going to play into this, one of which that I know the numbers were not all that favorable for, yet is in everybody's lottery and is in a damn Taco Bell commercial. is Johnny Davis. And I don't understand, you know what I mean? Like when the numbers are the numbers. And the numbers don't always tell the story. You know, the numbers, no, nobody was more hated by the numbers than Jalen Brown

when he was drafted third out of California. So it is clearly not the end all be all. But what do you make of the analytics being a part of this now? and kind of what numbers you would trust in terms of what you think matters towards the next level, or are we still just in the infancy of using those numbers to figure out how much you translate to the next level? I mean, it all matters. Every bit of information that you have matters, whether you're gathering intel, you know, anecdotal, you know, pieces of information that teams, you know, gather up talking to people for their high school, their families, friends, whatever else,

coaches, or whether it's like giving a personality assessment test that, you know, spit out a number. Like, everybody knows about Myers-Briggs is like a more mainstream test, but there's so many of them out there. It's a 16 personality factors, among others, that, you know, are used to assess personality. That stuff can matter and be integrated into a draft model as well. I think for teams, I mean, I'd love to take a look under the hood and see what teams are doing with their draft models to see what type of information they're putting in there

because it's not just like box score stuff. It's not just pace adjusted per possession data from Synergy Sports tracking. It's not just it's not just manually track data points that they have their interns go through and track like the number of times, you know, this player's screened and rolled successfully since we don't have second spectrum tracking data for that, right? It's everything. So I mean, I'd love to know how much like some of the personality stuff is integrated in. But teams don't talk about that. Because I'm so fascinated on just even like the raw numbers

when they're small sample sizes. Because I love that Ologer's like back in the media now. So he prints this stuff out because you do wonder, is this what your draft board would look like if you were still at an NBA front office? Because he had a kid that I covered and watched this past season that played for Memphis who was not like, it wasn't a Monty Bates.

It wasn't Jalen Dern. and it wasn't one of the big names on the team. He wasn't a starter, did not play that many minutes. Josh Minot, who was a great kid, always great in interviews, kind of like a fan favorite when he would come off the bench because he'd play with a lot of energy. He's got this crazy frame and all this guy's stuff. He's got him like 10th on his prospect list.

He did so little. And when I'm reading that, there's part of me that's going, what in the world? And on the other hand, I'm going, is this the kind of guy? Because I look at all the mocks and he's second round everywhere. Including on mine.

I have him 44. Yeah. And he's second round in everybody's. Everybody's. And yet, here's a guy that was in a front office of an NBA team who has him 10th.

And I'm like, are there going to be guys that are out there? Like, do you think there's any, is there any player that's like that? Maybe it's not my not, but another player that you think is like a big swing type guy. Like maybe the track record is not huge or maybe necessarily impressive and yet you think you could see, we saw it with Primo from Alabama, right? wasn't like some kind of jump off the page stuff

and he got drafted higher than people thought. Is there anybody like that that you think in the draft where this maybe if I looked at their numbers, maybe if I looked at their track record, it's not going to tell me why they're going to get drafted where they are. I mean, I guess you know one of those players last year, Chris, with Zaire Williams, who top high school recruit, but struggled at Stanford,

you know, a really disappointing year for him still goes in the lottery. Maybe this year a version of him could be somebody like Patrick Baldwin on a Milwaukee who, like Williams, was a top high school recruit,

came into college with great expectations, goes to Milwaukee to play with family, and he stunk. He was horrible, suffered through injuries, was no good even when he was on the court. You know, a lot of concern there with the way he produced.

And yet you can say, oh, he's six foot nine, and he can handle and maybe he can become a multi-positional defender when the mind catches up with his body. So, I mean,

maybe somebody like that you could end up being a surprise top 20 pick, top 25 pick, even though most people say second rounder. And you're just banking on, yeah,

what I saw. You can just roll the rest. Yeah. That was one year I'm willing to overlook it. This was my whole Cole Anthony thing, right? I'm not going to hold

this North Carolina goofy year against him. This guy played he was Jordan All-American MVP. He was McDonald's MVP. Like, they play a long time as they're being evaluated growing up, and they are evaluated as the best of the best in that class. And so, do we think that they just fell off and maybe they were overrated, or do we think that there's some kind of circumstance that led to their non-success? And it's interesting you bring that kid up because he was eighth in that class.

When I went and pulled up 24-7s, because the top 10 high school kids has been a pretty good, you know, risk to take. This is how I ended up with my Honey Badger's jersey because we brought this up regarding Duval. He was a top 10 high school kid, Trayvall Duval Duvall. And top 10 was Chet. Palo, Shaden Sharp.

Number four, I got to ask you about this guy. Because I was told he was dreadful in the G-Leat. Jaden Hardy. Yeah, he struggled. What do we think on him? Not much feel for the game. Not much of a playmaker defensively, uninterested.

But the dude's a bucket. He can create space off the bounce. He's fluid with the ball. his hands is fun to watch score is not fun to watch make decisions as a passer so with Hardy I'd love to see him fall into a situation kind of like Jordan Pool

with the Warriors or it's like you're not playing unless you start making your teammates better or doing at least intent doing things with the intent of making your teammates better so he he needs a good situation like that to fall into but you know

I think with guys like him late first round do you It's the question. It's the best thing for his career, though, if he goes like first round, right? Exactly. It's like, if you're that player or our team,

certain teams, like, let's just say with the Warriors. I was on the Light Years pod with Sam and Andy, the great pod they have yesterday. And we talked, they asked me, with the Warriors,

should they go for a proven player or an upside pick, like a Patrick Baldwin? And I think, like that's going to be the question, like say with Memphis, right? You guys have, if you stay,

with those two late first round draft picks and aren't able to trade up like you did last year with that Adams-Vallantuna's deal when you got Zaire Williams. There's no way they trade up those. No way. No way they keep both picks you think.

They're going to consolidate. It's just a matter of where they move to, you think? They've traded up every year. They traded up to get Brandon Clark. They traded up to get Desmond Bain. They traded up to get Xavier Tillman. They traded up to get Zaire Williams. It's what they do.

They attained those assets with that in mind. Whether they consolidate or just trade out of one of them, maybe they keep the higher pick and trade the other one. Who knows? Maybe they're the team that trades into 2020. Oh, no, I think 22 is the one that could move the jazz pick. 29, they love that pick because they went, they used,

they went and got Bain with one of the last picks in the first round, and then they went and did it with Santhi Aldama last year. They tried to get that pick. it because you get, if you hit it, you got a cheap player for four years getting paid a million bucks. There's a real asset. But like with Memphis, these teams that are good already

or contending already or have a lot of depth, whatever it might be, the question is, do you want to take a swing on a Hardy, a Baldwin, or do you go with kind of a quote unquote safer prospect that can play early minutes for you, like a Bochamp out of the G league, a safer, you know, a prospect, like a Wendell Moore out of Duke, like that type of guy.

I think it depends on what your window is. And I would say that it's different depending upon your team, wouldn't you? Who do you want the Grizzlies to trade up for? Let's just say they're able to find a trade. Oh, look, I had a eight-hour erection after the Mark Stein, uh, Jaden Ivy at four talk. Let's let's just, let's say that's, not available.

What do you mean is not available? Let's just say it's not. Let's say they move up to 11 or 13, late lottery. Ivy's off the table. Is there a prospect in that range where you're like, ooh, not, I think, honestly, it would have to be like one of the guys that drops. It's good. It would be one of those that is, that's, that's the, that's been the mode of operation.

How about Duran out of Memphis? Duran out of Memphis, Soman. Yeah, somebody that people expect that is going to go higher and then you're going, why the hell was he available? That's been how they have gone and acquired.

That's what they did when they got Brandon Clark. It's what they did when they went and got Desmond Bain. You know, other teams could, you know, like, you can do it. They target a guy, and this guy, this guy is dropping down the board, we got to get to that spot. And so what I would guess is it's not somebody that's in a mock draft right now between 11 and 15. It's somebody that's in the top 10 right now, more than likely.

That you're like, hold on now. Why is that guy still available at that spot? You know, the guy that drops down a little bit more. You don't think the Kings would take Dylan Brooks and Brandon Clark and a couple of picks? You don't think so? You don't think so? For four in Harrison Barnes?

Maybe a three-way. I wonder how many future picks you're going to give up to move all the way after number four. It was surprising to sign, you know, reported that. They need players. Yeah, they do. Right? And Memphis has a lot of good players.

So you would want Ivy and Morant in the back court together? Oh, no. My dream is that he's now the new Oak City Hardin. Oh. Yeah, dude. So you want him. Yeah. So you do want Ivy with Moritz.

Oh, sure. And you want him starting off, coming off the bench. Oh, by the way, they're dick as thieves and have worked out together. Really? Ivy's mom was his favorite coach. Nilele Ivy was a Memphis assistant. It is wild. He was at the playoff games this year.

Jade and Ivy, I mean, he's been around. He's been around. So those two are tight. They're tight. Yes. Yes. Could you imagine? That's downhill, brother.

You want to talk about, you want to talk about some highlights? That eight hours might turn into 80 hours. Oh, brother. It would be troubling. Very. troubling. But anyway, no, like I, I think that they will probably move up, but to the original point on, like, say like the Warriors, if I'm the Warriors, I think I'm more apt to get, I'm not trying to take home run swings. I'm more apt to get someone that can help me right now, probably, than I would be

because I think my window is winning titles right now. I'm winning titles, literally, in these next X number of years. I'm going to have a couple more. tracks that. And so getting players that are useful towards that and can help me in that window, I think, especially with all the money that you're spending, if you could find, like, actually players that could help you for low prices with those late picks, it's, I mean, that's how you become champions. The way you become champions is by getting the Jordan Pools, on crazy low contracts that are wildly outperforming them. You know?

And so hopefully I can find somebody. You might just say Moses Moody's going to be that. Cominga's going to be that. And we can throw another guy in the G League and we can build this thing out for the next two years and the next 10 years. It's possible too. A lot that can change, Chris. A lot can change on draft night. Oh, I mean, I fully expect this to be wild, this NBA drag.

I hope it is. I think there's going to be a tremendous amount of player movement that goes on. Player movement too. Yes, player and pick movement that takes place during this. Because I think that, you know, there's just so many teams that are trying to compete. And there's so many teams that want to try to change their roster around. and there's so many players now that would rather be in a different situation and powerful agencies, you know, that, I mean, God, I'm sitting around yesterday, Kevin, and I scroll through

Twitter, and I saw like a headline, and it was like, Kenyon Martin Jr. has gone to the rockets and said he wants to be traded. I'm like, all right. This is what you brought on, LeBron. How about we just have a Kenyon Martin Jr. decision? How about we go to rent a Boys and Girls Club in Houston? And we get Jim Gray's ass down there and we get a Kenny Martin Jr. make a decision. I mean, Kenny Martin Jr. requests a trade? What are we doing here? What is going on?

Really? What's going on, Kevin? What's going on here? Kenny Martin Jr. He said, I want out. He walked straight into their office. Trade me or else. Is that like a, is that like Shaq's son?

Well, you can't go to Italy? Sharifo, Cherifoneal demanding a trade. It's from a Gileet team. Get me out of here. I'm not part of this rat operation anymore. In five years, Bronny James. trade me from Fort Wayne Let me finish this top 10

Chet Palo Shaden Sharp Jaden Hardy 5 Amani Bates Oh my God Oh boy Brother Dude I was told that they were Like the dad and them I don't know if this is new

So God bless Go ahead and You can aggregate No They were all over at Memphis yesterday I think the kids like out of options Like he was going to transfer and then like the other places

like filled spots and whatever he's still not anywhere he's still not anywhere as a transfer he's not like going to like some league or something I think the kid may end up back at Memphis somehow I mean interesting what a S show seriously

yeah I got a text yesterday that they were over at Memphis and I'm like you've got to be kidding me you've got to be kidding so crazy He might have made a mistake going to college, Drew early. What a crazy story. Anyway, he was number five.

Six was Jaylen Dern, seven was Jabari Smith. Eight was Patrick Baldwin, as you mentioned. These are the rankings in the high school class. Nine was Kennedy Chandler. Where are you on Kennedy Chandler? I have him late first round. By the way, Memphis kid, who I saw in high school, obviously left his senior year and went and played at like a prep school in Kansas.

so I didn't see him that year. Saw him last year playing for Tennessee. What kind of prospect do you think he is? You think he's a long-term NBA player? Yeah, I mean, he could have a role for a long time. I mean, he's a quality point guard. He's just tiny. That's really the main reason why I have him lower is he's smaller,

and also there's just a lot of guards in the NBA, and there's guards every year in the draft. So, I mean, there's quality Kennedy, Chandler S guards that you can find in every single NBA draft. So I think for a guy like him, that's why on my personal board, I have him, you know, I think late 20s, early 30s, even though he might end up going in the top 25. One good thing for him is, I think he set the high market for vertical leap. There's one way to make up for being six foot.

Yes, he's small, but he's a leap, yeah. He can move. It's over 40. I was like, God bless Kennedy. And then 10 was a kid that's not in this draft. He's in next year's draft. Scuda Henderson. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. I guess he's playing his second year. So that's the 10. Yep. Yep. One of the guys that went to the G League. And he could be a top three, five pick next year behind Victor Wenban Yamah. Yeah.

Oh, and then those twins that I just saw a couple weeks ago. Yeah, the Thompson twins. I mean, oh, I can see how people like love 23. as a potential draft, right? Because there's a bunch of really good players that are in that. Do you think your opinion is going to change from now until Thursday on any of the top players? Is there anything can be done or is it what's done is done at this point? Like if you had the number one pick, you would take Palo.

End of story. I mean, I think the Jeff Welman, the Magic general manager, he said the other day, it's still early in the process. That was the code he gave. Is he been in a coma? Yeah, the quote is... Hey, Jeff, you've had this pick for like two months. He said it's still early in the...

Last Monday, he said it's still early in the process. Dialogue is always ongoing. But most importantly, we get to do what we want. That's the real benefit of having the number one pick. It's not early in the process, but it's never too late. It's never too late to change your mind. That's the one thing I've learned over the years, Chris.

It's never too late to change your mind. And if you want to change your mind, you should. Even if you've kind of dug your heels in and had Killian Hayes ranked first for months. And if you start hearing in the days and weeks leading up to the draft that maybe, maybe this Intel is growing stronger about Lamello. Maybe you should just make that change. It's okay to, it's okay to change your mind. But today, you know, two days from the draft, I don't expect to change my top three. I think he'll keep Bancaro number one,

Jabari number two, and Chet number three. But all three of those guys, all of them are worthy number one prospects. I mean, like, it's really one A, one B, one C between them. Well, and you are higher on Shaden Sharp than some. Yeah, half him four. You have him four on your big board,

and I just told you, he was the third, right? He was behind Falo and Chet. Those only guys he was behind, and he didn't play. And by the way, he might be one I'd slide down to five. number six. I mean,

it's close between some of those guys. I haven't made that final determination yet, but for now I haven't met number four, yeah. Yeah. So, and I mean, the comps,

my God, Paul George, tall Bradley Beal, Jalen Green. I mean, that George Cox probably remove. What?

Yeah. That George Comp can probably be removed. I need to edit some of the, the comp comparisons in there, before finalized on Thursday. A couple other players I do want to ask you about, because it's guys that I've just not seen nearly as much. Tell me

about this Dyson Daniels. Because you've got him seven. Played the whole year in the G-League, struggled with his jump shot, shot below 30%, looked much better shooting the ball and everything pre-draft. But like with that dude, it's the playmaking that you want. That dude

like with Giddy last year out of Australia. There's like some pretty good guards coming through, man. Giddy, Daniels now. This guy can pass. He's has real creativity. He's the type of guy who effortlessly can throw those kickouts to corner three-point shooters and throw the lobs. Just a reliable creative player.

Like you know how some passers, they have a knack and a flare from making those tough passes through tight windows, but they make silly mistakes. Daniels is the type of guy who makes all of those passes while also limiting turnovers. So like the fact that the shot looks better through pre-draft, that's encouraging for him and his, really the driving factor behind his rise to up draft boards from like a mid first guy to, you know, mid-lottery. Tell me about Usman Jang.

Might be the sleeper of the drafts. Could be the steal of the draft if all things work out. But like he's a swing, right? And he could end up being a player that doesn't work out because he's so raw. He has not been great production-wise playing in New Zealand last year. But 6-10, his best skill is his ability to handle the ball.

He's a good passer for his size. a willing, you know, hard, you know, hardworking defender. So, you know, if all that, that's a baseline for success, right? 610 long, versatile can pass. It's a matter of what level does he reach as a shooter, you know? So it's not just like, you know, a million dollar move, 10 cent finishes. What level does he reach as a shooter? But also defensively, the awareness, like for many young players.

And he's one of the youngest in the draft. Just getting smarter on the defensive end of the floor. But I like Jing a lot. I have him top 10 of my board. And if I'm a team like the Pelicans. So maybe he's the Grand Slam swing. Yeah, I think he is. But like if you're a team that already has a lot

and you don't necessarily need anything at all, I'd love to take a swing at Usman Jang. Like the idea, and when I say that just the idea that it's, even if it's low percentage, there's a percentage he could be amazing. Right? Yeah. Exactly. That's what I'm talking about.

That idea that there's, okay, I know that some of those guys, like, they're not going to be amazing. But with the kid like that, if it all went together, look, this happened once upon a time with Janus, where somebody looked at him and said, man, now obviously he grew. But if it all, if it all works, this guy could be. And clearly it worked out a million. unfold when you're talking about becoming one of the greatest players of all time. But that worked out better but like the best case scenario.

Yeah, that's more than a grand slam, right? Yeah, but like even even the realistic best case scenario for Janus, you know, pre-growth spurt was still a high level player where you're like, ooh, you know, six nine can handle the ball. You know, he plays hard,

versatile. I mean, even that best case scenario was impressive. Same for James. Could be very special. Yeah. Yes. If it all came together. You think that's true of the Jane kid? I do, yeah. I like him a lot.

All right. Now, let me ask you about a couple other ones that I don't know as much about. Malachi Branham, Ohio State. An unexpected one and done. He's a bucket getting guard more than a passer. I like him. Good mid-first-ish-round draft pick. All right.

The ones that you have next, I know Mark Williams. I know Tari Eason. I know more about those. I don't know as much about the kid from Santa Clara. Jalen Williams? You said he's a riser? Yeah, you should check him out. Plug his name into YouTube.

Watch him, Jalen Williams. He led Santa Clara and assist the last two years. That's not going to be his role in the NBA. But I think for a guy like him to display the passing chops that he did in college, bodes well for his ability to play in any type of system because he can handle on a pitch for you. He can primarily be a good spot-up shooter, hit over 40% of his catching shoot threes.

He's a smart, high IQ player who puts a lot of effort into the game. There's just, like, what can you not like about Jaylon Williams other than the fact that he is sort of unproven against top-level competition? That's it. That's like really the main knock that you can have on him as he's unproven. So we talk about it every year where we say, hey, there's those guys that were, they were penalized for age. They were penalized for the fact that they did play three or four years in college.

And then we look up and we say, all these teams passed on Jalen Brunson, for instance, right? He's probably going to make $100 million this summer. If there is a guy like that, that even we're seeing it now, that maybe even yourself, you feel like maybe I am too low on that guy. The guy that is that people are being agist with that's highly successful. We know he's a good basketball player, but not. maybe as intriguing on the next level.

Hmm. Is there one of those guys that's like an upperclassman type? I mean, I don't know if there is on my board this year. But like maybe

somebody like a Christian Coloco. I have him 21 on my board. But like there are a lot of people who talk to around the league that are like, hey, he's the second round pick. He's 22 and he's still raw. And he was a junior in Arizona. But I really like his game and I'd be willing to bet on him in the 20s.

He was a late bloomer. He got a late start playing basketball. I mean, I think it's understandable why. How about David Roddy? Oh, David Roddy, one of the weird body all-stars in the draft this year. But he's like, conference player of the year, got this football body with the seven-foot wingspan.

Like he's got, and he obviously was good, right? He won the conference player of the year in his conference, which was a very good conference, actually, this past year. Maybe him? Yeah, I mean, he could be another one. He'll go in the 30s, I think. I'd be surprised if he fell out of the 30s. Do you think with a guy like him, he should go higher with his amount of skill level?

He's just a weird player, though. He's 6'5. He just feels like one of those guys that we'd look back on. And, you know, yeah, he was good. Like, what did you need to see? Like, he was a lot better than a lot of those other college players. He's a strange player. six five two hundred and he played quarterback in high school.

Now he wasn't a line when he played quarterback. Did you read that thing about this morning about Paulo being amazing at football? Not at it. Where was that? I was like, what the hell? Polo Bankero was like, could Paulo Bancaro been an NFL first round pick too? And I'm like, Paula Bankero play football? Not only did he play football, he was like awesome.

I'm like, that's crazy. Okay, so that was at Sporting News. Stephen Nell wrote that. Before starring at Duke, top NBA draft prospect had first round potential on football field. That's crazy. You know, I love guys to play football. Yeah. And I told you when I was around this guy, he's huge.

Like, he is. He's a full-grown-ass man. I think Paolo's going to be really good. I think Paolo's going to. I love that, dude. Next year, if I had to bank on who's going to score a bunch, be ready to play. next year, I think I'd probably say he'd be at the top. Yeah, like he'd be your rookie of the year pick, right?

Huh? He'd be your rookie of the year pick, right? Yeah, I mean, I think if it's not from, yeah, assuming it's from one of the sorry teams, yeah, I mean, I think he could come in the league in every, if he gets drafted by Houston, he could average 20 points next year without trying. He's that big, bro. Ben Carroll played quarterback too. Yeah, that's right.

I remember that. Yeah. Yep. I'm also a little surprised. Like, this hasn't been a bigger pre-drafting, Paolo Bencaro. I like football guys. Yeah.

I like guys that played football too. You know what I mean? And that plays into the whole David Roddy thing. He looks like a football guy. He really does. Do players make so much money now that we're not going to see any multi-sport professional athletes? you still see those stats about guys that are in the pros,

like over 70-something percent were multi-sport athletes or whatever, and you see so many of them preach that and so many of the greatest of all time. Because I do think that you learn. I know, but I mean at the pro level, though, at the pro level, I'm saying, like growing up, yeah, having range is great. No, I'm saying at the pro level,

you still will see those statistics come out. saying. No, but I don't know what I'm saying is playing multiple sports. Oh, can you play? You know, Danny Aange. I go, you know, that range of players. You don't think we're going to see that anymore because it's too much money in it, right? Like one sport you can change your life and your family for generations.

I mean, it looked like Kylo Murray might do with this year. It looked like Carla Rue who was done with the Cardinals. He'd be the best chance. You want to talk about something that hasn't gotten it up. play. The fact that some of a bitch could have gone one in both drafts. Or what did he go in the baseball draft? Did he go one to the A's Kyler Murray? He certainly went in the top five. I think he might have gone one. I know he went one in the NFL draft. But that is

freaky stuff. He was ninth overall. Oh, ninth. Okay. Ninth. Yeah. So selected ninth in the 2018 MLB draft by the A and then first in the 2019 NFL draft by the Cardinals. I mean, that's outrageous. Yeah, that's amazing. So the A's must still hold his rights, too? Or do those rights expire? I'm not sure.

But they, you know, I think part of why he went ninth was people thought it's a possibility. You know what I mean? You might not get him. So he was flirting with that this year. I wonder if he'll ever make that switch. Oh, that would be crazy. I know.

because he was amazing at baseball. Not like good and not good enough to be a pro. Like projected to be one of the best baseball players. And yet he can play NFL quarterback. It's kind of crazy. But yeah, I was trying to find any of those guys that might be, you know, those player of the year type guys that we look back and like, that guy turned out to be a lot better.

Is there anybody that you're scared you're too low on? Johnny Davis. Maybe someone who really underwhelms their freshman year in college, like a Peyton Watson out of UCLA. Somebody like that where it's like I have him late first round, that might be too high. It might be too low. Right.

I'm not saying, yeah, like, keeps you up at night. But if I told you, Kevin, that guy's going to be a star that you wouldn't like fight me too thin nail about it if I had a conviction about some player that was low on your board you know

that you could see it happened. How about like a Max Christie maybe somebody like that out of Michigan State? You could see it. Yeah. Someone like that.

Where we look up and Max Christie is a factor. Yeah. Because he's 666, 6 and he can pass and create. Yeah, guys like that. I know you have, look, let me just say this before we get out here. That draft guide, I know it can be the bane of your existence,

but my producer was telling me today, he was commenting on it, and everybody I talked to around here about it, everybody loves that draft guide. That draft guide is unbelievable. It really is. Thank you. It's an insane amount of information. and the graphics and everything, like, it's a 10, bro. It really is.

That draft guy, by far, like, it owns, I think it's your corner. I really believe that in terms of the guy because everybody kind of updates to try to find mocks. Like, it's so interactive and the damn thing works on the phone too. I really value it. Yeah, the art team does an amazing job putting that together. It's cool for me. the first one I published was in 2014.

I did it all by myself in Microsoft Excel. I designed the template and put all the information. And at one point, the file crashed. I had to redo like 15 different profiles, inserting everything from my doc into the Excel sheet. And so now in 2022, this is now the six-year-ish or so. We had the ringer doing draft guides and working with our team, starting with Juliet Lidman back in 16.

And having the same designers over the year, that have continued to enhance this thing and make it work. Like, it's for so much information, the page works so smooth. It does. It blows my mind how well this thing works. And it's really a credit to the whole team. The people who edit the guide and make all my changes behind the scenes, you know, Matt Dollinger's really taking control doing a lot of that this year.

He's a great editor to work with. And I love our team. It's fun to do it. I love the guide. It takes a lot of work, man. But it's fun to do it. I love it. I know.

But you should be. proud of it. Thank you. I appreciate it. I think one day you'll look back at all of them and you'll be like, you know what? That was worth it. Because it lasts forever, right?

Yeah. Some of them you want to delete. You know what I mean? Yeah. Or you can just go in like, just do like Chad Ford did and edit that shit. Do we know the true story with what happened there? Let's move,

Killian down. Let's move it down. I had him. Nah, I embrace my mistakes. Of course. You know, but you grow from them. You don't think I want to delete my Marvin Bagley article.

It is what it is. All right. We all make mistakes. Thank you, our executive producer, Jesse Lopez. I'm so excited for the draft on Thursday night. It's going to be a fun one for sure. And Kevin, I will talk to you. Maybe Friday, maybe next week.

Who knows? We'll talk soon. Yeah, we'll talk soon. Have a good one, everybody. Enjoy the draft.