The Mismatch - Giannis Extends with the Bucks, Grizzlies Options at Center, and NBA Season Predictions

Episode Date: October 24, 2023

Verno and KOC go through all the latest NBA news, beginning with Giannis’s three-year extension with the Bucks and how this solidifies Milwaukee's future (01:43). They then move on to discuss the contract extensions of Jaden McDaniels, Onyeka Okongwu, Josh Green, and Cole Anthony before discussing the Grizzlies' options at center after losing Steven Adams for the season (10:50). With the season about to get underway, the guys give out their playoff predictions for each conference, as well as the season awards (37:54). Got a question for Verno and KOC? Send them an email at [e-mail]! Or you can send the guys a tweet @ChrisVernonShow and @KevinOConnorNBA! The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out http://theringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What would you do if you got scammed? Would you suffer in silence, or would you do something about it? Well, I got scammed once, and this is the story of what I did. I'm Justin Sayles, the host of the Wedding Scammer, a true crime podcast from The Ringer. And for seven episodes, we're hunting a comment. A guy with a lot of aliases, a guy who's ruined a lot of weddings. And with the help of some friends, I just might be able to catch him. Listen to The Wedding Scammer on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome to the mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon. And joining me as he does every Monday night from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, a.k.a. Kevin O. Obama. Kevin O. Concer. Kevin O. Camer. A.k.a. Kevin O.

Conflict. Kevin O. Kavanaughan. Kevin O. Bleran. Kevin O. Kevin. Viras! The season. We're here, baby. Let's go. We have made it to the NBA season. There will be basketball.

football games on Tuesday night, the Lakers and the Nuggets, the Sons and the Warriors are going to be facing off in night number one. And then we will see all the rest of the teams within the next few days. A bunch of news has come out right before we are recording this podcast that we will get to. We will give our predictions for the upcoming season a little bit later. But the news that drop, not the least of which, is Janice Hans-Dacompo signing a three-year $186 million extension with the Milwaukee Bucks

through 2728 would be the player option, which at that point to walk away from $67 million roughly, probably not in the cards, but I guess you never know. Who knows what the numbers are going to be at that point? But three years, $186 million for the extension that Janus has signed.

He replaces that 25, 26 year, gets a raise for that year. And then obviously he's got two more years tacked on to his contract. Just a monster, monster win. for the Milwaukee Bucks to get this thing done before this season started, because I think most expected that this was not in the cards at this point, and that we would probably get to this next off season before something was decided. Were you shocked when that news came across? Not quite shocked.

I mean, we saw this story play out before. Drew Holliday gets turned into the Bucks, Yonah signs, and extension. Damien Liller gets traded to the bucks. Well, here we go. Yannis rewards the franchise back by signing an extension, giving them certainty with what to expect in the years to come. And from the way it was framed in the reporting is it sounds like this is kind of a long, long-term commitment with the way it sets up the next extension in 2026 and then another extension

in 2028. So even though it was slightly more financially lucrative in the short term to wait until next summer, he could have gotten an additional year on a contract if he waited until 2024 to sign a deal. It's not like it's a dramatic difference with an annual, a year-by-year basis. So for the bucks, they get certainty. Janus, again, shows what true player empowerment should look like, not this James Hardin's stuff, where you sit out and pout and cry and push your way out of franchises. This is the way you do it where it's about winning, it's about the collective.

They get Drew Holiday, he rewards him. They get Damien Lillard, he rewards him. And here we are with a small market franchise. You've talked on this pod for years, Chris, about how cool it is that a player, as great as Yonis, wants to be part of a small market team. Well, we got Yokic and Denver. Granted, Denver's on a smaller market. They're not like a premier big market franchise. You get Yolkich in Denver, Janice and Milwaukee, places that they want to be, and that they have a chance to win more championships.

It's a pretty great day, I'd say, for the NBA. It's great for the leave, right? To feel like you don't need to go elsewhere in order to achieve what you want to achieve or that you're not always thinking that the grass is greener because in some cases the grass can be greener, right? That you can get it done there and that you've got an ownership that is willing to get it done there. Like that's the trick to this, right? You've got to have the owner that's willing to do it because you, don't have some of the benefits that the larger markets do financially.

Now, that being said, I think you got to look back at that Lillard trade. And now that looks like the greatest trade ever, no matter. Because this is what it insured. It got Janus to sign that extension. And so no matter what you put in the deal, no matter what it, what it ends up being going forward, like, that is the biggest win possible. You get rid of that distraction completely. You don't have to worry if Adrian Griffin isn't the coach of the future, you don't have to worry about that. These are real things that you would have to, that was one of the things that we

talked about. It's like, hey, man, you don't have an infinite timeline with this. Well, now it feels like, you've got a very long timeline that he did one podcast appearance and one interview. And to your point about player empowerment, it got it done. And it wasn't, hey, if they don't do the right things, I'm going to leave. It wasn't a threat. It was a, hey, look, I want to win. That's what I want to do. And, you know, the future will tell how badly they want to win.

And they re-sign those guys in the off-season. Nobody, at least most people, did not think Brooke Lopez was going to be back there. You know, they re-up those guys that were on that team with him that won a title. And then they added Lillard to the mix. And they hired a coach by all accounts that he wanted. And now him rewarding them with the 3-186 and that extension. And just it doesn't have to be talked about anymore. right who's a long time yeah if ever if ever again like it may never be a i mean i'm sure

in some senses there will be people who always bring up where is yon is going going next is he going to go to the nix is he going to go to the warriors i'm sure that that may pop up again in two to three years but that's only natural when you're talking about a player of his magnitude uh in a position where he wants to compete for championships but ultimately though the bucks like in their 26-27 season, they only have Janus and Damien Llewood under contract for that year. So through 25, 26, I would expect we'll see a pretty similar core roster trying to run it back win more championships. After that, the bucks aside from Janus and Dame, assuming Dane wants to stay and they want to keep Dame, they could totally reshape this roster around Yannis for the back half of that contract extension.

he just signed and kind of started again and build another championship contender around him as he ages into his 30s. So it's going to be interesting to see. I think we kind of know what to expect the next couple of years with Brooke Lopez being back and Chris Middleton, hopefully being healthy and all that. But, I mean, after that, like John Horst, your best friend, time to get really creative. So I'm excited today to see what the bucks do in the coming years. But in the immediate future, I mean, obviously, I mean, it's all about what a Dame and the Honest look like this season right now. And I didn't like, and nobody liked the way it got messy in Portland with the Lillard thing. But if we go back, it wasn't, you know, Dame, not unlike Janice, was in that situation.

And I don't particularly like the way it all was handled. But he was in that situation where it was like, hey, let me be clear. I want to win here. Like, that's where I want to win. I don't want to have to go somewhere else. But I want to win. And so, you know, it's not about being in a bigger market. It's not about getting all the, you know, a glory of being elsewhere, you know,

maybe a bigger place than I am right now. Like, I want to win basketball games. I want to have a chance at rings. And if I can't have it here, then yes, I got to start thinking about going somewhere else. That gives me that opportunity. but given a choice, I want to win here. And so Milwaukee proved they're willing to do what it takes. They have this generational talent, you know, where you know, if you've got one of the five best players in the world, you've got a chance.

That is the history of the lead. And you typically do need to have one of the five best players in the world in order to win that thing. And they do. And he's still in his prime right now. Just a huge win for Milwaukee. And I do think it's good for the league. A bunch of extensions that were signed. We had that class of 2020 that was out there with a deadline before the season was going to begin. And we would see who would get extensions and who would not. We had already had some that had taken place, a lot had taken place in the office. season, whether it was huge ones like Desmond Bain and Tyrese Halliburton or even some on the

smaller end like Peyton Pritchard that had already taken place. Well, we had a slew of them come down this afternoon right before we were going to record. One started earlier today. We got the Jaden McDaniels one in Minnesota. That's a big one. Five years, $131 million. I mean, and it relates to our conversation we had on our show last week when I was rambling about Leonard Miller as an impressive rookie for the Wolf. Well, now you've reward Jada McDaniels. He's on the up and up. Every year he gets better offensively.

He's already an awesome defensive player and all defensive caliber guy. I think for Minnesota fans, we'll see how things look with that entire core this year. If they go deep in the playoffs, you probably keep it all together. But if you don't, suddenly Kat becomes the most valuable asset. on your team as somebody you can kind of flip for other assets and whether you stay over the second apron or not, which this deal does put them near. I wonder with Minnesota, what they're big, what Tim Conley assesses this team right now, Kat has to be the asset you're looking at on your roster and thinking, what could we turn

him into to become a championship contender if this current team isn't up to snop to be that? One of the things is that you've got a pairing with him and Edwards now. going forward with a young group that you can build out around. The other thing is I think that this is one of those moments where it's this recalibration of what salaries are now. And we had it twofold, right? Because on one hand, we're like, oh, Janus is going to get paid $67 million a year. And then you look and you go, all right, Jaden McDaniels is going to start at 22. and then by the end, that fifth year is going to be a tick under 30 million,

which seems crazy, but again, we've got to recalibrate. And honestly, like that price for a starting wing, a good one in the league is probably going to be about what you're usually spending if you've got an ingrained starter who's an elite defender that can knock down some shots. And so I think on the surface, I was like, wow, That sure is a lot. It's not a bargain. I didn't get a bargain for him.

But lock him up because you believe in him is what they're feeling. They obviously have believed in him because any time his name ever came up in anything they were thinking about doing. It was like, no, no, no, no, no. They are super high on him. And they believe that he can be a much better version of himself than he's even been for us thus far. and man, did they really bet on them with this contract? Other ones. So then, you know, you kind of, you juxtapose that with some of the other ones that come in.

That a Kangwu contract comes in. Now, that is a bargain. Big time. I can't believe they got him at that number. That's a major steal for the Hawks. Four years, 62 million bucks starts at 14. And then at 27, 28, he's going to average, well, it's going to be. be like right under $17 million.

In 27, 28, I mean, that contract has a chance to look absolutely unbelievable if he is, if he continues the trajectory that he has been on. If they move Clint Capella, like for you guys, you lose Stephen Adams for the year, unfortunately.

Right. If Memphis or some other team that's in need of a, you know, a tough interior. your center goes and get Capella. Well, for the Hawks, suddenly you're sliding one of the best backup bigs in basketball and O'Yakey Okongwu into a starting spot. He plays like 22, 23 minutes per game, and he's really, really good in those minutes. If he becomes a 32 to 33 minute per game player and this preseason, he started shooting

threes. I think that's something that's an underrated factor here with his own development. He's not just who he is. he's someone who gets better every year. So for the Hawks, like, this is an, this is, this is already a discount as is. What does he become if he offers you more minutes? What does he become if his offense continues developing? Like, this could be one of the best deals on all the basketball.

Ad stat Williams had a bunch of stuff about Akongwu, which had ranked in the top five an offensive rebounding percentage and second chance points after Quinn Snyder took over, did the Hawks. Also, he was, I believe, sixth in field. goal percentage? Great finisher. Top 10 in Allie Oops. And I mean,

that's the role. That's the job. No pun intended. That is the role. But it is also the role of that position for the Atlanta Hawks because you have this transcendent guard that consistently

gets to the free throw line extended and makes you make the choice of, are you going to let him shoot the little floater, Or is he going to throw it up over your head? Or if you step up, he throws it over your head. If you back up, he shoots his little floater. And we have seen that even be very effective when it's coming playoff situations.

And so when you have an elite level finisher, like a Kongwu, perfect pairing, perfect pairing. Yeah. And a perfect pairing with that skill set. Like this speaks to the point I made earlier. Like if he stays as he is for the rest of this contract, it's a great deal for the Hawks. He shot 32% on a high volume of threes and preseason. If that moves closer to like 35, 36%, it changes things that you can expect from Okongwu because he's got feel.

Like he can operate out of dribble handoffs. You could use him with Trey, with Bogdanovich, with Murray, all those guys with Kobe Buffkin. O'Kongwu, I think this deal could end up when we look back at it as a mistake. potentially to sign it. I have that level of belief in Okongue. That's where I'm operating from. He could completely exceed it. Of course he could.

And truth be told, like, just looking at their cap sheet, and I think most have recognized me as the foremost cap expert on Atlanta Hawks matters. It looks great on there. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

It looks great. For listeners who aren't on X, We got a lot of pushback because we have failed to mention that Murray sign and extension. I mean, whatever. Also, I don't think it changed the point that you were trying to make that. They have a lot of money coming up. And that he kicks in next year. Yeah, and that he's somebody who could make sense as, you know, a valuable trade piece.

I don't think it changes anything that you were talking about. But, you know, it is. I now, nobody knows more about the Hawks payroll than me now. Nobody. Trust me. You are on top of it. Nobody. I am the king of the Hawks Bailor.

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See full terms for both offers at fandul.com slash sportsbook with NBA league pass local blackout restrictions apply. All right. Other ones. Another bargain, I thought. Tell me if you agree. Josh Green, three years, 41. is great.

I know. I agree. Josh Green is way better than that. I think. It made me question if I have too high of opinion of him. Like, the guy knocks down shots and he's still, another one of those, it's still getting better. I just think much like the Akangwu thing, this is a guy that with more opportunity,

he's going to have more development and production. and that, you know, you get to, if you got to like maybe next summer, this guy's asking for $20 million or something, right? $25 million, whatever it may be. So I think locking that up right now was a great benefit, I think, to the math. I mean, he shot 40% from three last year. He's a good cutter. He's a good, you know, hard-nosed hustler, defender.

It's one of those kind of scrappy do-it-all guys. on one hand I completely under understand him locking up and getting the security but you're right Chris another one of those guys where it's like three years 41 million

I know it's really good deal for Dallas yeah and I like the Orlando again we're talking like right around the mid level Cole Anthony three years 39 million lock him in another guard like you know you got a guard the glut of them

but he's a heater. And there's nights where he's going to come in and be able to get you points and get you wins. And I like Cole. And I also like his demeanor. I think that his type of energy is good for a team. I think he's a tough guy. And I also think he can get better.

And I think as he moves into, you know, the next phase of his career and a role that is properly defined as to what he brings to the table, I think that could be a really good value, really good value. You know, I think that's his destiny, right, to be that guy that comes in. And, man, there's some nights where he just, he just drops 12 in a row on your head. Because he's playing against your second unit. You're like, geez, man, Cole Anthony's getting hot.

You know what I mean? He's on one. And we've seen a lot of those, like the swing the game guys, right? Your starters ain't got it. You're down by eight. he comes in at the six-minute mark of the third quarter and reels off, you know, 10 points in the next six minutes, and now you're in the game. So I like Paul Anthony.

I always have. I wonder how the magic kind of work out those guards. You got Fultz right now on an expiring, and he's, you know, the key guy in that rotation. Jaylon Suggs, you invested a lottery pick in. He's got two years left. You got Anthony Black, who's a rookie. you got Cole Anthony now who you just signed to an extension. You got other guys on that roster.

Like Bancaro's a big, but he handles a ball. Franz Wagner's a big, you know, but he handles the ball. But yeah, you want those guys initiating offense. And I, that is the weird thing. You know, we talk about fit and opportunity. I love Anthony Black. I don't like the fit necessarily. I know that I'm with you.

They love length. They love tenacity, like that kind of stuff. I get why they liked him, but he needs shooting, man. Like, all you got guys that can initiate the offense. That's why they got Jet Howard. They get Jet Howard for that reason. He ain't got to play him. Yeah, and with Anthony Black, I mean, it's a big, big bet that he figures out how to shoot.

Right. Like, that's what you need. You just need guys that can throw it out to because both those guys are just devastating. And they can, you run offense through them. So you don't have to have a point guard that kind of runs offense. Anthony Black would have been better for a team that he can kind of set the table for everybody. Those guys are going to have the ball. Well, with Anthony Black, that's on the flip side of that, just to push back a little bit.

I think that's what could make him a fit because he can be one of the guys who's handling the ball. We see teams across the league using, you know, smaller guards or big guards, including Black at 6-7, 6-8 as screeners. Black could be somebody who you have in the dunker's. and you get Wagner or Bingcaro on the perimeter initiating the offense. You can play inverted with black because he's so smart. He's a he's a hesy player. But I would rather have people who can shoot. Yeah, I think it's more like the Gabe Vincent type of role, you know what I mean,

where it's like, all right, get the, you know, most of this is going to be running through Jimmy and Bam. I need to be able to just get a kicked out to me. Yeah, I feel you. I can bang a shot down, right? And so anyways, I like to call him. Anthony thing just fine. Really strange that you saw.

There were a lot of guys that signed extensions. So 13 players signed rookie extensions before this season begins. Anthony Edwards, Lamello Ball, Denny Avidja, who we did not mention, but signed four years, 55 million. Obia. Obia. I'm sorry. That's okay. Devin Vassell, Vassel, Vassel.

Vessel, yeah. Vesel, man, I know people on, you know, social media were like, we got that much money. Like, the dude is way underrated, man. All right. Everybody's going to see it to share. Well, he didn't get paid like he's underrated. Because the Spurs know what they have in him and they know what he's becoming.

I think this year everybody's going to realize, oh, whoa, Devin Vassell. He's actually pretty awesome. Halliburton, Neesmith, 3 and 33, pretty good. I mean, he's a real player. Cole Anthony, Isaiah Stewart, Josh Green, Ziegnaji, Peyton Pritchard, Jaden McDaniels, Desmond Bank.

So those are 13. And then the ones that didn't get extended, the number two pick, James Wiseman. This is from the 2020 class. The number four pick, Patrick Williams. The number five pick, Isaac Okoro. The number seven pick, Killian Hayes. The number eight pick, Opie,

The number 13 pick, Cairo Lewis. 17 Alexi Pocleshevsky, 19, Sadiq Bay, 20, precious Achua, 21 Tyrese Maxi,

25 Emmanuel quickly, 29 Malachi Flynn. All right. Which one are you most surprised by? Killian. Just kidding. Stop.

I mean, surprise, surprise if we go back to 2020. Maxi is, Maxy's holding out for the huge payday. Yeah, well, that's why it's not surprising. You know what I'm saying? What about precious? I like precious.

Yeah, but I think some of these guys, it's almost kind of like it's the opposite of what we were talking about with what feels like a discount deal for Okongwu. Like some of these guys, Emmanuel quickly, you're just a sixth man in the year candidate. You could be traded potentially. I'd rather wait to see what kind of clarity I have next summer.

Same thing for Tyrese. I want the back next year. Precious at Chua. If you have a really good year, maybe a team views you as some super versatile forward big type of player and you get paid big time next year. So that's why I really like I have. It's weird, right?

Because you got to be careful on one cent. I look at it and I go, yeah, I'm sure these guys probably in some cases, I would say most of them probably got an offer. Like, hey, we'll sign you for this. And they thought like, okay. I can play this year and make and do a lot better for myself. But sometimes you can't, you know.

I mean, I just saw what was it the other day? Who was it that got cut? Kevin Knox? Hmm. Kevin Knox like he's just like he's waved the other day. And I'm like, man, how? Who knows? Kevin Knox is going to be around or not?

Or if he's got to fight his way back into roster. And it's like there's a bunch of new good players that come into the, league every single year. And so your your spot is not guaranteed. But and so I understand in some cases, just wanting to sign for, hey, I'm going to have an NBA career for three or four more years. Bingo. Yeah.

What if it goes wrong? What if I'm, what if I'm looking up and I ain't got a gig? Getting that long term security. I mean, like, yes, you might be able to get paid more. If you wait. But at the same time, like, your job could be up. You can get injured. And then you're out and you're playing over.

somewhere away from home and you're struggling to get another opportunity in the NBA because sometimes once you're out, it's hard to get back. And so I think Kevin Knox is a great name to bring up because not only did he get cut, he got cut from one of the worst teams in the league, like one of the youngest teams in the league, a team that you expect to invest. Yes. And this is another reason why we're ready for expansion. There's more than enough talent that's not in the NBA that is good enough to at least

get an opportunity. me. I mean, look, we're not ready for expansion because we need to find a team for Kevin Knox, but I understand what you're saying. Yes, for sure. Yeah, yeah. Well, it's, it's not that. It's because of, like, the 30 players that would be going to these two new teams, and Knox might be the 14th guy on one of the existing 30 teams. That's right. You know, I think, I just think Kevin Knox at his age, like, surprising he's not going to be on our roster. He's 23, 24 years old. Boy, that draft is a dud in terms of like, I mean, that's a lot of top 10 and 20 picks. Wiseman, Pat Williams, Akoro, Killian, Obi, Cairo, Louis, Poku, Sadiq Bay, Precious.

Those are all top 20s. Yep. That did not get extensions before this season begins. even aside from like if you go pick by pick Anthony Edwards at one has become a great player and he's seemingly only getting better Lamello really hasn't proven anything I mean he's had good moments

He's been an all-star already Yeah but he hasn't proven anything In a winning atmosphere or anything like that He's had some injuries You're out on Lamello? I'm not out on Lamello I'm high on Lamello but he still has a lot to prove as my point And last year to not

not go well for him either, his third year. What kind of odds? Hey, what kind of odds could you have gotten that draft night that we're going to look up in, in 2023, the three guys from the top 10 that have extensions are Anthony Edwards, Lamello ball, and Denny Abidje. Advijia. Advija. Now you've messed me off.

Denny Avdia. Avdia. Avdia. Avdia. You could have gotten big odds on that. who cares I care about him I care about him about as much

as Jordan Poole that was a great clip Danny waving his arms he ain't passing that shit Jordan Poole is going to have some massive games this season and some massive duds he's just going to be one of those good stats bad team players

somebody's got to score right somebody's got him and Coosman's was going to get buckets too Yeah. Boy, the wizards, the wizards are going to stink. It would be bad, really bad. So we had a bunch of this extension news that came down.

Also, my weekend got all screwed up on Sunday when the news came down that Stephen Adams is out for the season for the Memphis Grizzlies. How bad is this, Chris? Does this ruin their season? No, and here's what I would tell you. It is a huge blow. But there's a couple of things. Here's the good side of this. The good side, there is no good side.

Let me just be clear. There's no good side on losing your starting center who is essential to what you do before the season. Elite screener, elite rebounder, toughness, grit. Yes. He makes you the best offensive rebounding team in the league no matter what team he's on. That has been true in virtually every season he has played. His team is the best offense. of rebounding team. And there's a common denominator and it's that he's on it.

Also, essential next to Jared Jackson, Judah. That being said, a couple of things that went their way that now end up becoming of benefit. Because they signed, we were talking about guys that you end up getting a lot cheaper than you would have. They signed Jerry Jackson's extension after his injured year. So they got a hell of a deal that would have cost them a ton more. Then, while not good, Morant not hitting the all NBA bonus, like you could conservatively say they should have about $100 million more on the payroll than what they do from those two players. Okay. So you have the money. You have picks. You have trade exceptions. You're under. You obviously need a roster spot. But they be, and you didn't lose a guy that you pay 30.

$30 million. You lost a guy that you paid $12 million and that it happens right before the season. Like they have to make a move. They have to. They have no choice in the matter. They can't have a season where they've got Xavier Tillman and Santi Aldama and Jaron Jackson. And then your only other guy that has any size is Kenny Lofton and he's ill-equipped to play in an NBA game more than 10 minutes. So you've got to make it. deal here. And so here's I'd say I tweeted yesterday about the Time Lord thing.

Time Lord is a possibility simply because of the, now you may not want because his contract's long and he's not the beacon of health. Yeah, I mean, he's so injury prone too. I think now with this extension, the Capella thing becomes a much bigger reality. The two big names that

I, obviously I've talked about this a lot locally, the two big names were Time Lord and Capella as obvious is, like obvious guys. that might be attainable that are in a contract range that you can make happen and that a team might be willing to part with. And then so those are the big ones. And obviously I would think Capella is probably most likely, more likely.

If now they may not want to move him. And the asking price may be too big for somebody like Time Lord. But be not dismayed. Grizzlies will do something. They're not going to go. And now, that is the other benefit. It happens before the season. So you're not like at the end of the season. There is no like, hopefully you're getting back. Like you know, you don't have this player the whole year. That's a good point. Yeah. Now he has to be replaced. It gives you time until the February deadline to figure out who it is that you're going to go out and get. Well, and you might do it even

sooner than that. But I think the big one, the two big ones would be Time Lord or Capella. And then if you're stopgapping, the three names I put out there were Daniel Tice, Daniel Gafford, who's on that sorry wizard team. Again, possibly attainable for not much. Olinick. How about Isaiah Hartenstein? Yeah, Hartinstein, another one. You know, I mean, so there are guys out there. Those are stopgap. I'm not giving up a lot. Like you're, you're talking. Nick, Nick Richards with the Hornets, you know, if they're fully in on Mark Williams.

There's a handful of stopgaps. Yeah, you're talking about young player, or you're talking about first rounders or first and another swap or a second rounder with those big names I'm talking about. Like that's the kind of stuff. You talk with big names. What about what about like Jared Allen mid year if the calves are like, we need to split up,

more than that's a guy you can kind of splurge on with some picks. A possibility. What about a what about Rudy Gobert? Shut up. It's $40 million. I know. It's tough to match the salaries, but the player tight. I mean, look.

Can you imagine to the listeners if the Grizzlies got Rudy Gobert this podcast episode? I would. You will have. If that news comes down, I promise you. You will have heard the last episode of the Miss. And I'm moving in with you in Los Angeles. Become a Laker fan or something. Oh, my goodness.

That would be the greatest thing ever. No, it would be so great. Anyway, yo, Capella's 20. Hey, Capella's 21 this year and 22 million next year. And you know how I know that? Because I'm the king of the hawk's salary cap. That's how. Kevin.

Yeah, all those flash cards with William over the weekend, paying off. Good job, Verdo. Great job studying after those Hawks fans bullied you into it. They hate me, too. Hawks fans don't like us. They don't. Yeah, they don't like us very much. They have more than that.

Maybe four or five. Shout out, Gucci, Maine. All right, Kevin. We've got to make some predictions for the upcoming NBA season. Now, we're not going to go team by team who we have the one seat, who we have the two-seat who we have three-seat on and on. But we are going to say, these are the teams that we think are going to be locked playoff teams.

So that'll be the top six. And then we've got four others to play with that are going to, obviously seven and eight are going to have an advantage to get to the playoffs. But I've got it in the east. Let's just fast forward to where there could be possible disagreements. Boston, Milwaukee, Cleveland, Philly, New York, Atlanta. All right.

So that's your top six. We, we have a slight difference. I have Celtics. And that's not in order. Okay. Well, I have Celtics,

bucks, hawks, heat sixers is my top six. So you don't have the Knicks. Yeah, the Knicks is seven. Okay. Right on the cusp.

Okay. And then my other four then would be Miami. So you would have, that's where you would have the Knicks. Yep. And then I went Indiana. I got them too. Orlando.

Boom, we got them. Got them. Okay. And my last one was a debate on Toronto and Chicago. Hmm. I went Brooklyn. Both.

I have no idea what direction they're going. So it made it impossible. I mean, the three are definitely out on. Chicago's got good players. Like, and I like their coach. So I'm going with Chicago.

I'm going with Chicago as a player. I'm going Brooklyn. I'm going Brooklyn. Pet Simmons believer. Well, because they have no reason to bottom out because they don't even have their picks in the years to come. They have other people's picks. Toronto has reason to go one way or the other.

Chicago was reason to go one way or the other. Charlotte, Detroit, Washington, like they're not going to be in the play in or the playoffs. So those two I didn't even consider. I can see a world where Chicago's really. good. I could. But it's really good as in above average. That's what you're saying. Not really good as in they can make a run. In the six. But could they

make a run? I mean, they got the Rosen. They got Levine. They got Vucci Maine. They've got dogs in Dissoumoo and Caruso and Javon Carter and like, I don't know. I don't, I don't hate it. Patrick Williams obviously playing for a contract. Mm-hmm. I don't hate it. I actually think there's a world where they could be, like, you remember a couple of years ago when they started off like, Kyle's the Pounder, we're like, holy hell the bulls. And like every night there was a fucking another Demartarosen game winner. So I went with Chicago.

All right. Yeah, you had Orlando. You had them. Yeah. You know, I like the magic. I know you're not with me on Franz Morganer, but you will be. I'm not with you as one of the top ten players of this generation. Top 20.

top 20 of in the NBA, not the generation necessarily. Milwaukee Boston East Finals. I've got Milwaukee moving on. I get the Celtics moving on. But Buck Celtics in the East Finals, yes. And it might be a battle of buffoonery. We don't know with the Adrian Griffin, Missoula showdown. Yeah.

I mean, that's the big question with both those teams as coaching. For sure. They just got the better players. Oh, you're in health age. Brooke Lopez is older. Middleton will see what he bounces back to for Milwaukee. Boston, Horford is 80 years old. Porzingis.

He gets hurt all the time. So we'll see with Boston as well with their injury. And here's what I'll say. If we're right about like those teams at the top, if we're right about where the teams at the top finish, then those teams that are a little bit lower, this is where this could really, really, really, really, play into the playoffs. Remember I'm saying this. If we're right about the order, you could be

facing Quinn Snyder or Tom Tivodeau or Eric's Bolstrum. And it shows up when it comes playoff time. And so those teams, that is what's kind of crazy. The teams that we, if we're drafting coaches, are not the same teams as if we're drafting players that are the ones that we know have, they can put you in hell when it comes playoff time. We just got we get some real unproven. Obviously, Dick Nurse gets benefited the doubt because of, you know, what he was able to do. But his whole situation's a mess and we don't know what kind of players he's going to have.

The one thing I'll say about Missoula is like watch his postgame pressers, his, you know, media pregame stuff. He was wound up so tight last year. He like he feels like a different guy. Like he's so much looser. It's very strange to see the way his kind of composure has changed in front of the media. And like everybody that's covered the Celtics seems that has echoed that sentiment as well, that Missoula feels different. He's talking differently.

He seems to come with a different perspective after everything. So we'll see if Missoula figures things out because Brad Stevens, great coach himself, has proven to be sensational in that front office, making big, daring moves. And he's the guy who threw his support behind Missoula. after everything that happened last year with Udoca leaving, Will Hardy getting hired by the Jazz, and he goes with kind of out of nowhere Joe Missoula. If you trust Brad Stevens, I mean,

it'll be interesting to see if the big bet on Missoula pays off here. We'll see. Quick, I mean, all I'm saying is, Quid Snyder also gave him some problems last year, right? Like, if you look up and you're against

Quinn Snyder, you're against Tom Thibodeau, you're against their expulsra, even Rick Carlis. Let's not put Tom. Wait a second. Let's not put Tom Tibido in the same breath as Spolstra, Quinn Snyder. He doesn't belong in the same breath as them.

Let's relax. Tibado's team mauled Cleveland. They mold them. Yeah, but not with Spoe. It's not with Spow. I'm saying he's not, if I've got, if I'm bringing Joe Missoula or Adrian Griffin or J.B. Bickerstap or these guys to the table. Yeah, fair.

That's what I'm saying. But it doesn't belong in the same breath of Spoh. Well, Tomazula doesn't belong in the same breath as Tibido. And I'm saying, if you want to give me two teams, I know which coach I want coaching that series. I think this year will prove a lot. Okay. I will. And this is coming from me.

Like the guy, like the dude in sports media was criticizing the hell out of Missoula last playoff front. He was absolutely horrible. But I think this year or two will prove a lot for him. Just like with Adrian Griffin. Like he might stink this year for the bucks. Yep. Year or two will be more indicative of who he really is as a coach after you learn from your mistakes.

Yeah, I mean, and I also think his roster, much like Missoula's, like you could coach it and you're going to have a chance at the east side. You roll the ball out there with that offense. I mean, my God. If you got Brown and Tatum and you got Lillard and Janus. But it's mostly about those postseason adjustments, the type of scheme that you install, how you deal with injury,

over the course of the season, personality management, all that stuff. Totally. All right. Western Conference. Let's see. This is tough. This is really tough.

Okay. Denver. We are top six. List your top six. Denver, Phoenix, Warriors, Lakers, Grizzlies, T. Wolves. Huh.

So that's your top six right there. We have one difference if that's T. Wolves are top six for you. I have sons. I have Nuggets, Lakers, Warriors, Kings, Grizzlies is my top six. So I have Minnesota in my plan at the moment. Yeah, so I've got Sack and Minnesota right next to each other. And then Clippers. Right.

Yeah. It's really close. And then Clippers just because, obviously, I like the talent. I can't trust it. Yeah, they're in the plan. And then OKC in Dallas. I got the same. Okay.

So we have the same 10, unfortunately. We do. It's just, it's just we. have grisle, kings and Timberwolves flipped. Because my play in is Clippers Mavericks Thunder, Timberwolves. So missing the playoffs, I have Pelicans just can't. I didn't think they look good at all in preseason. I don't trust Willie Green as their coach.

Zion needs to prove it. He's got to prove it. You may change up, though. You may, look, my prediction is by Thursday, you're going to have changed because I, like, the home opener for Memphis is Wednesday night. Obviously, I'll be there. They may get 95 rebounds. with Zion and

Valanchunis against Xavier Tillman and Jared Jackson, Jr. Like, I don't know who's going to rebound. That's what I'm saying. Like, it's going to be sooner and later. They're going to have to do something because it's moments like that

where it's like, geez, Louise. But, you know, Dave. Yeah, they could. Pelicans could easily be a top five seats. That's the West this year. I think the only teams that would surprise me if they fell into the play-in would be the sons, the nuggets, the Lakers, and the Warriors. Kings, Grizzlies, Clippers, Mavericks, Thunder, Timberwolves, pelicans from five to 11,

any of those teams I can see end up in the top five. I mean, you could see it because the Warriors have been there recently, the Lakers have been there recently. It's health. Well, yeah, health, of course. That's the big thing for any of these teams. Well, the veteran teams. Yeah, for any of them. Yes, of course.

No doubt about it. misses a lot of time or, I mean, they're probably better equipped to deal with LeBron missing time now. Well, that's the thing. Like the Lakers, now you have Austin Reeves stepping up. You got D-Lo. You do have bodies that could, if LeBron's out for a month, you can deal with it. Same thing with the sons. The sons have superstar depth.

If K.D. misses six weeks, Bradley Beale and Devin Booker take a bigger role. If Bradley Beale misses time, you've got quality backups at the wing. Like Eric Gordon can step up. Grayson Allen can play a role. So, like, the Sons have a lot of depth where I think they can withstand injury as well. Nuggets, obviously, if Yokic were to get hurt, it doesn't seem like he ever does. They, like, it'd be detrimental to your team. But even then, how do things change with Jamal Murray?

Aaron Gordon can do more. They have high-level star support, too. Michael Porter, Jr. could play a bigger role for that matter. So I think, like, those teams, Sons, Nuggets, Lakers, Warriors, maybe less so, as you said. but everybody else in that conference, like it could be five to five or 11. I wouldn't be totally shocked at all. There's always a thing we never see coming.

So if there is one in either conference that you think like, oh, we're going to look back. And I could like last year, we would never in a million years saw the Utah thing coming, right? Indiana was the top, what, four, five seed for a good portion of the season until Aliburton, you know, got hurt. And so they were a big surprise. Kings, not being good, but being that good, being home court advantage level good, was shocking.

Is there anybody in either conference that you left out where you're like, man, if it all came together, like, maybe they could be a lot better than I'm giving them credit for. Nobody in the East. In the West, I think you can make the argument for a lot of them, really. I mean, I think you can make it for... The easy one, San Antonio. San Antonio, because Victor Wenjamma, if he plays 70 games, 75 games, he could lead one of the best defenses on all the basketball. I think I'm a big believer in Devin Vassell and Jeremy Sohan and a lot of guys in that team.

Popovich has done a good job of, you know, sapping out all the talent he can from his rosters historically. They could be a team that completely exceeds expectations. The Rockets, they added a lot of veterans. If you get some young guys popping, Jabari Smith, if Jalen Green elevates his play, they could be a team that does it. The jazz, like they could be a team that actually sustains a playoff spot this year. But they don't really count as a surprise for that reason. I don't think the world ones counts as a surprise. Rockets is a good one, though, because they've been so bad for so long.

And it's like, what if Udoka. I mean, plus, you know, if you don't think I'm going out of my way to check them out, because, like, this is like Godzilla versus Roday. when it comes to a guy that detests bad shots being taken and Dylan Brooks. It's like, oh my God, I can't wait to see this is going to, they might get the fist fight. Yeah, I think it's one of those teams. Yeah, I do.

What's your West Finals pick? West Finals. I had Denver Lakers. Okay. I think that's a good pick. I'm going to go with, well, the way I have it structured is it can't be Denver versus Lakers because I have the Sons as the one seat. Oh, well, I have Denver wiping the floor with the Lakers again. So I have Sons Lakers in the West finals because of the way I have my seating set up.

Oh, and because of Calvin Booth being mad at you. and and I have the Lakers in the finals Oh, wow, what a homer, Kevin O'Laker. Laker Celtics, of course. Jesus Christ.

For Banner 18, yep. All right. I've got Denver Lakers, Denver moving on. I've got Janus Yokic Battle of the Titans. Oh, cool. Wouldn't that be amazing?

get Denver, Milwaukee. And I got Milwaukee winning it. You got the small market finals. I got the big market finals. Yeah, you do. Lakers. And I'll go with the Lakers to win the finals. LeBron gets another one.

A.D. has a big year. Austin Reeves gets a vote or two for finals MVP, but LeBron takes it. They don't have one of the five-bed players. I'm kidding. I'm kidding about that last part. Look, I told you, NBA histories, you got to have. one of the five best players in the league. Well, or do they?

No, they don't. They don't. I'm sorry. Okay. Not right now. All I'll say is this. All I'll say is this. LeBron was one of the five best players in December and January last year.

Within a year ago, he was one of the five best players. Okay. And then he got hurt. So we'll see if he has that in him still. I believe he does. Of course you do You're wearing your jersey You're going to be wearing your jersey

I want to have a Wolfpack shirt on Don't take him for granted I'm not wearing a LeBron jersey right now I'm wearing a Volt Wolfpack shirt Don't take him for granted Do you know Wolfpack you ever listen to them? No They're a great live band

Really good MVP I've got Yannis Okay Oh we were gonna do look We're gonna do a favorite And then a long shot Yeah okay all right So the favorites

on Fandul's sports book is Yokic at plus 430. Okay. And your pick was who? Janus? I took Janus, plus 600. Okay. I'm going with Steph at plus 1,400.

Long shot. LeBron at plus 5,000. I mean, Lillard is 3,600. He's not going to win it over Janus, though. I'd be shocked. I know. LeBron at plus 5,000 is a really good value. You're ready for?

for an unbelievable long shot. Yeah, please. How about a little plus 11,000 when by Yama? That's, that's, I had him as a long shot for a defensive player of the year. The first guy to win rookie of the year and MVP in the same season since like Wes Unseld or something like that. I mean, that that's actually an interesting one though, because like what if the Spurs? What if they were good? Yeah, what if they're like the four seed?

What if? Yeah. And they were not any good last year. year. Yeah. Bad enough to get the number one pick. Yeah. What if?

And then he transforms the whole franchise and everybody loves him. Mm-hmm. It's a ridiculous long shot. It is. But everything about him is ridiculous. Kevin, let me tell you something. In the preseason of this NBA season, I have never, ever received more videos and text about an NBA player in my life. No.

It's daily. Some screenshot or some video or did you see this or how the hell is this real or some meme or something? I've never seen anything like it. And just to put his preseason numbers in context, sometimes what I like doing, the year Hardin won his first MVP, I thought preseason was indicative of what his new role was going to look like with his usage. I think I predicted hard an MVP that year or set it pretty early on. Per 36 preseason can at least be indicative of what your usage is going to look like. When being during the preseason averaged 33 points on 24 shots with eight rebounds,

five blocks, 2.6 assists per 36 minutes. He might not play at 36 minutes. He might only average 30 or 31. But the usage is so much there. that he might average over 25 points per game and get four blocks per game and seven, eight rebounds, pick up two or three assists per game. That's not out of the question for his rookie season at all. He's closing people out from 15 feet away.

The blocks that he's had on the three-point shooters are unlike anything we've ever seen. Untrue. Did you see the clip of teams practicing for him? Yes. The Mavs on Obed God, Sham God was using like long arms to close out on shooting. and all that. He changes the way you need to prep. I've had that same experience.

I've gotten more texts about Wembe. There'd be pre-seasoned I wouldn't get a single text from a friend about basketball. Nobody cares. Nobody cares. It's preseason. But with Wemby, it's like people are really, really locked in on him. Rookie of the year, obviously, Wembe Yama. He's minus 145.

I mean, you got to bet. You got to laid out. have more money, just went 100. Yeah, he's a long shot. Let's just move to long shot. Osar Thompson plus 7,500 with the pistons. Brother I wrote down is 5,000. I'm in.

I think one of those two's a good bet for a long shot. Keante George, 6,000? Yeah, I don't know if he's got. I don't think enough opportunities. Yeah. How about your boy Leonard Miller at plus 14,000? Don't burn your money. Don't do it.

All right. Defensive player of the year. Favorite is plus 500, Jaron Jackson Jr. That's the favorite to win it. I've got Bam, plus 200. That's a good bet.

I had AD at plus 850. He campaigns. Yeah. Like he's mad that he doesn't get it. So at some point he's going to get rewarded. He's a great defensive play. Well, AD at some point, it's going to win it too.

Maybe this is the year he stays healthy-ish and wins it plus 850. How about this for a long shot? the aforementioned to Kongwu, plus 10,000? Wow, that's an interesting one. If Capella gets traded.

Right? Huh. On a flyer? How about Nick Claxton plus 2,500? I'm not sure that quite qualifies his long shot, but he didn't even,

he didn't make an all defensive team last year, which he should have. I had him on my second team. I felt like he was, he's one of the most transformative defenders in the league. They're all long shots. Look, if you put down 100 bucks and win 2,500.

Yeah, for sure. Like, I think if the nets are better than a playing team or like if they're the five seed, then maybe Claxton is in that conversation. Coach of the year. Daggnault favorite. He's also my pick. I've had him for quite a while for that. Plus 750.

Long shot, Quinn Snyder plus 2000. Yeah, I had the ones I wrote down for long shots that I thought would be where that are Quinn and Tibbs. Yeah, those are good ones. If either of those are like, you know, top three record in the East. just because it all came together and Atlanta was awesome or New York was awesome then those coaches would have a chance at that.

Most improved player is probably the one oddly that I was like oh these odds now again it might not go the way but maxi at plus 1,100 and to me it's a long shot on here Paulo at plus 5,000

said this. I mean, you've got to think about who wins this award. It's already somebody, you know, it's not what it should be, right? We understand that. Like, it should have been Desmond Bain a couple years ago, and it was John Moran. It should have been, like, it's usually somebody that's already good and has already proven something, but has an awesome season. Maybe they take the leap from, you know, star to superstar or whatever they think it may be. That's why Mikhail Bridges is favorite at plus 1,000. He's already very good. He already averaged 25 points from January through

April. But it'll be the whole year for some reason. Yeah. I think Maxie and Pauli that was over half the year last season. I think Maxie and Paolo are the most likely. How about Franz Wagner at plus 3100? Of course, you would say that. As soon as I said, Paulo, you were going to say,

Franz. That's my pick is Franz Wagner. My long shot is plus 10,000. Tyler Hero. Oh. What if Hero comes back, Chip on his shoulder, Pat Riley lying claims

that he never wanted to trade Hero, never shopped him around. Hero average is like 27. It's not going to happen, but I'm not even going to dignify clutch player. I don't care. Oh, there's no odds up for that either.

Yes, there is. There is. Unfortunately. I didn't see him on Fandul. They're there. Really? Whatever. Yeah, they're there.

Plus players impossible to bet on. Impossible. I mean, like, you don't know at all at which teams are going to end up in that situation. Sixth man. Sixth man of the year. The favorite for Sixth Man of the Year is tied between Emmanuel quickly and Norman Powell at plus 900. This is tough. All right.

Well, is Derek White all the way down there because people think that he's going to start? Yeah, I don't know. That's what I was confused on because, like, Derek, White has started some preseason games. Missoula has said how, like, the lineup's going to change. So I don't know. Like, I'd want to avoid some of the Celtics players for that reason, because I don't know who's going to start.

Even Chris Paul is there is there at plus 1,700. Chris Ball's an interesting choice if you're. One of the real long shots I like, DeVincenzo plus 5,000. Again, big market. It's a big market. you know, like they got a big push with quickly last year. And you think, I mean, it would be kind of crazy if quickly doesn't, like, is not first guy off the bench and it's actually Dante DiVicenzo.

But I've always been a DeVicenzo fan. And is he a long shot? The Knicks have three guys on there quickly, DeVincenzo and Hart. So he's your long shot. How about another plus 10,000 on my end, Bones Island? the new new Williams for the Clippers. Okay.

Bones. I mean, Bones at plus 10,000. All right. That's a real long shot. That is a real long shot. So I guess we, I think we covered all the awards. Yeah.

No other awards we left. All right. And we have the, the only finals team we have different is you so rudely taking Denver out. well that's because I have them as the two seed you literally just wrote a dynasty article

yeah I mean but Calvin Booth himself in that article said it's not about going back to back it's about winning four out of eight three out of six he also tried to say you didn't want anybody to know what he's yeah Oh, is this why you're picking Bones Island? It's all coming together. I didn't pick bones.

I said long shot. Why don't you just say F. Calvin Boone, dude. Why don't you just do it? Get it off your chest. Dude, picking Denver to not make the finals and picking Bones Island to win. six men in the year. I didn't pick him to win. I said he's a long shot.

I guess. It's so good. Oh my God. Most improved player, Bruce Brown. It's so good. Oh, must have been. Oh, man. All right, I can't wait for this season to begin.

By the tomorrow night, we're going to be watching Lakers. Dude. Sun Warriors. Chris, this is going to be a great season, man. Oh, it really is. They're saying the players are going to play this year. Yeah, I know, right? Yeah, hopefully that continues.

but man like just going going through the predictions and thinking through like over the weekend who are the guys that are going to end up winning the awards and which teams are going to make the playoffs which teams are going to make moves like there are four or five teams that you feel like

oh yeah they're not going to make the playoffs that's right but like every team is going for it I don't know I'm I'm fired up man like I think I think more than any of the year I'm feeling excited for the season to come and I'm always excited for the year to come. I'm always fired up. There are so many great players. It's a fun rookie class. More than any of the year for sure. And plus, we get the in-season tournament. I can't wait to

see how that's going to pan out. The games on Tuesdays and Fridays. Yeah. And like I've seen, I saw when I was in, I was in a different city earlier this week, last week, and a player was being interviewed by NBA TV. And I saw them show like a court. the in-season tournament court that's going to be there in Vegas. It's like a purple court. It looks interesting. Yeah, so they're going to be custom courts there in Vegas for the in-season tournament. I look forward to seeing what the league kind of does there in Vegas for those couple of days.

But it looks like they're already getting the wheels turning on and making it into like an event, a place that you look at the video footage and you know where it was when it was. Yeah, but even by tomorrow night, you know, LeBron's going to be there while the Nuggets get their championship rings and Chris Paul playing against the suns. Like, good opening night. Oh, my God. Storylines begin. And Kevin, and Kevin Durant versus the Warriors. Oh, yeah.

Really good. Oh, man. It's a great opening night's slate, man. We will be back on Thursday. Thank you to our executive producer Jesse Lopez as always. And Kevin, I will talk to you Thursday night. Let's go, baby. Must be 21 plus in President Select States.

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