The Mismatch - Grizzlies Impressing, What to Do With the Lakers, and What an In-Season Tournament Could Mean

Episode Date: December 28, 2021

In the final episode of 2021, Verno and KOC discuss Monday night’s Grizzlies win over the Suns, as Ja Morant hit the game-winning floater in the final seconds. The guys debate whether the Grizz can finish with a top-four record and discuss the team’s ceiling going forward (05:47). With the Western Conference being weaker overall, KOC believes that LeBron and the Lakers will eventually turn it on, but Verno has lost all confidence with the team and doesn't believe it can make any kind of noise (15:19). They also revisit the idea of a Russell Westbrook–for–John Wall swap (20:33). The Bulls are currently sitting at no. 2 in the East, and the guys discuss why they are so good this season and what pieces they need to truly compete for a championship (26:51). The discussion of an in-season NBA tournament returned over the weekend and the guys are both in agreement that this could be an exciting move for the NBA (39:53). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Ringer Gambling Show is here to help you place your bets on the biggest sports around the world. Join NFL analyst Warren Sharp on Mondays and Fridays with guests Chris Vernon, Ben Solac, and Joe House to guide you through the NFL betting landscape. Each week, they'll cover everything from spreads, game totals, and parlays to player props, futures, post-game reactions, and more. Check out the Ringer Gambling Show on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to The Mishmatch. I'm Chris Vernon. Join Macy does every Tuesday from The Ringer.com. It's Kevin O'Connor, a.k. Kevin O'O.com. concert, Kevin O'Climber, Kevin O'Candyland, Kevin O'Cristmas, Kevin O'Conflict, Kevin!

Boono! Happy New Year Week for us! It is a happy New Year week. Hope everybody had a very good Christmas holiday. And every time we flip on the NBA, Kevin, you know it became a joke. Many years ago when you and I were doing this podcast, where I said, who is Rashon Holmes? And then last year, I remember it was, who is? is Nathan Knight.

These guys are like Wiley veterans who of course I know who they are now because every time you tune in a game now, it's like, who I have spent more time looking up players

in the last week than I have since we began this podcast. Many times it's guys in the starting lineup. I believe as of yesterday, the NBA set a record for 541 players appearing in an NBA game this year. And that was Greg Monroe, who I was very familiar with.

Dude, did you see Greg Monroe after the game? He scores 11 points off the bench his first time playing in like three years against the Celtics. And by the way, embarrassing loss for Boston last night. And just absolutely embarrassing. but Greg Monroe's asked like, do you know your teammates? And he's like, not going to lie. You know, Jalen Noel had a great game with 29 points, but I have no idea who that guy is. Even Greg Monroe.

It was reminiscent of, you know, that guy that started for the Baltimore Ravens over the week of Josh Johnson said he had played on 14 different NFL teams. And I remember at one point when Washington had signed him years ago, he, there was this story. that came out that said he went and played Madden so he could learn everybody's name on the team. He didn't know anybody on the team, so he went and played Madden. So Greg Monroe should have gone and played 2K. Some of these guys are going to have to go play 2K to try to figure out who's on their team. But yeah, Greg Monroe became the 541st player to appear. There are more players as of this morning that have gone into protocol, not the least of which is Montres Harrell. And that their number, I believe the Wizards who had gotten ravaged by COVID last season.

I think their numbers up to seven now. You have teams just signing guys to 10-day contract, signing guys with a hardship waiver to try to get by. And it's rather clear the NBA is just going to try to power through this. And they've changed some of the protocols in the last 24 hours. So maybe a shorter stay out of the lineup if you are not symptomatic. But here's just hoping that the NBA can power through this, despite some reporting that executives are a bit miffed that they're having to field teams. Have you talked to anybody about this? I can understand the frustration of fielding teams right now that are absolutely no representative of.

the team that you built going into the season. Yeah, I mean, I've had some conversations. I mean, like everything else, it's mixed opinions. You have some people who are frustrated, some people who totally understand and aren't all that worried about it, you know, that say it is what it is. We're just going to move forward with whatever the NBA tells us to do. They're kind of the Bella Chick-chick type of approach, you know. It seems like most people tend to lean on that side where, like, they understand that this

is just the circumstances that the NBA isn't going to, cancel or pause, you know, all these, they're not going to pause the season and cancel a bunch of games. So, I mean, just having to deal with it. And ultimately, like, for a lot of these guys, whether it's people that are from the G League or former veterans like a Greg Monroe or Isaiah Thomas getting opportunities, for a lot of these teams with guys out, what type of opportunities are being created maybe for some of their younger players to get opportunities to play, get consistent minutes. They're trying to make the most of it.

And I think that the Golden State Warriors win that we saw over the weekend, I guess the Phoenix Suns is really a great example, you know. Some of the guys that they have missing and they slide Auto Porter, another one of our guys into the starting lineup. And it's like, damn, I mean, granted he was signing over the offseason, but some of these teams that made the acquisitions over the summer or doing it now that have depth, it's showing the importance of pro personnel scouting. there's no question.

Yeah, that starting lineup the other night included not only Auto Porter, but also Gary Payton, right? Who was starting in that game. Last night, the best game was the Sons and the Grizzlies. And to your point, there was no, there was no Jay Crowder, there was no DeAndre Aiton as early in the afternoon. It was announced that he was going to be entering protocols. And like you were saying, young guys getting the opportunity, it was a career high for Jaylen, Smith last night who like never plays it feels like I feel like I feel like I never see that even pick up his contract for next year yeah he's he's there last night uh with a career

high he's getting a little opportunity obviously Memphis has played all manner of players including John Conchar in the starting lineup I like Conchar Chris oh he's a player now he's good yeah he's a player really good And like you were saying, with the scouting and the pro personnel, Memphis got up 18 on Phoenix last night, looked like they could run away with it, and it just wasn't the sun's night. And next thing you know, that lead has totally disintegrated. Devin Booker hits a top of the key three to go up one with about five seconds left to go. and then John Morant goes in, drives on everybody, hangs in the air, and hits a game winner for Memphis.

They became the first team this year, Kevo, to beat the Warriors and the Sons. Nobody else has done it. Nobody else has done it. And look, the Grizzlies are right now in the four-slot, which is rather unbelievable. You know, everybody's gone. through losing a bunch of players throughout this last few months. Look up and they're in the four slot as a team that would be getting home court advantage unbelievably.

What are the chances in your mind that they could hang on to that? That we could look up at the end of the season and in fact Memphis is four in the West. I think there's a chance. I mean, this is a good team. It's a good team. And like you look at the teams behind them. The Clippers right now, they're in the fifth slot. Paul George is out.

Obviously no Kauai Leonard. The Nuggets in the sixth spot, Jamal Murray not due back until at least February. Dallas at seven. They've had guys in and out of the lineup. They've been incredibly inconsistent. Then Minnesota. I don't see them necessarily keep catching up at Memphis.

Lakers at nine. You could see L.A. with LeBron and AD and Russell Westbrook catching up. You could see that. It's a long time without AD though. It is a long time. Spurs, Blazers, I mean, at this point, I mean, there's really after Golden State, Phoenix, and Utah with those top three spots, I mean, Memphis. It's wide open. I mean, very well Memphis could hold on to that four spot.

And I think with this Grizzlies team, they showed during that stretch without Jommer, Grant just kept on winning. We talked about it. The depth this team has. There's no bad players in this rotation. When guys are out, they can slide John Conchard into the starting five, and it doesn't feel like you're losing something. They have Taylor Jenkins and his coaching staff have just done an outstanding job

as well as that climbing and the front office and building out a full roster where guys can be missing. And this is so important during this COVID year. Guys are going to inevitably be out of the line of whether due to the injury or protocol. And the Memphis Grizzlies have a way of just sliding people into the rotation. So that, to me, when you assess who's going to hold on in the four spot or even just just holding a top six spot, that gives Memphis a strong edge. Is that surprising, Chris?

Like, are people within the organization surprised that the Grizzlies are this good this soon? I think that there was a feeling amongst many that what was discounted in, preseason projections is something that is very, very difficult to assess, which is how much do your players improve? Morant, Bain. It's a very difficult thing to do. Well, and the Bain thing is another level, right?

He said another career high last night. He's getting better. He's better. Like, he's getting better. Since the middle of November, he's been the best three-point shooter. in the entire NBA. He had 32, I believe, to set the career high last night. It's not outrageous for him to have over 25 on any given night.

I mean, even recently, he had that 29-point game at Dallas. He had another 28. Last night he had 32. And these are against, I mean, this was against Phoenix last night that he's able to do it. And so that's one of the things that's very difficult to assess is to try to figure out. you look at teams rosters and it's like, okay, who takes a huge leap? Who is so much better? And Grayson Allen has been very, very good for Milwaukee.

But they cleared the way for Desmond Bain to be able to start for them by moving Grayson Allen, you know, and you never know. And like there's even guys, I'll even tell you, Stephen Adams is. He has been outstanding. He has been so much better than he looked in a New Orleans uniform. The way they use him, the match he has with Jackson. And he is a much better passer than I ever thought. I think last night he had over five assists again.

And that was the most he's had. I mean, he's already surpassed the amount of assist he had. is a great screen setter for guys that either can get to the basket or make shots. So I think it's just how much do you, your coaching staff deserves credit for putting guys in the right position. But one of the things you never know how to assess is how much better are guys going to get. And I think that while, yes, they probably felt confident that these guys would all have improvement. you can't even somebody that's very high on Bain and you were you're not expecting in year two for him to be dropping 32 on the road in Phoenix.

Hell no. You know what I mean? No way. That's not in the cards. No way. Like me and almost everybody like who follows the draft and NBA draft Twitter love Desmond Bain. Like, you know, everybody loved Desmond Bain.

And I don't think anybody could have expected what you just described 32 points on the road. scoring in the manner that he did against the team that just a couple months ago was in the NBA finals. I don't think anybody could have expected that in year two doing it in the manner that he has. You mentioned Stephen Adams. He looks rejuvenated in this role with the opportunity that he has, with the point guard that he has with John Moran, with the guy that he can use in some dribble handoff actions with Desmond Bain. My favorite play, you mentioned his assists. My favorite play from that win last night for the Grizzlies was a John Moran, Stephen

Adam's pick and roll. Stephen Adams rolls down the lane. John Moran delivers him the ball. And Adams, I think he took one dribble and then immediately kicked it out to Bain for a wide open corner three. There's just a great wraparound pass to kick out to Bain for three. And it's like, he just fits. He just fits. And people compared Morant to Westbrook in the past in terms of like downhill athletic point guard. I don't think it's that accurate of a comparison for a lot of different reasons. But in terms of the downhill aspect, Adams has that again with Morant. And that's really activated his passing that we haven't seen since OKC. It's just, it's, I don't know, man, this Grizzlies team top the bottom on the roster. They're not a championship team.

They're not. Like Phoenix, Utah and Gold State aren't another level from everybody else in the Western Conference right now. The Lakers and the playoffs with LeBron, AD, Westbrook, and whatever other changes they might make, they still need to be considered threats because of the roster. but Memphis, it's pretty obvious. They're next. I think they are better now than anybody expected them to be now. And I think the West is just much weaker. The one team I would say as we were going through those is if Denver gets Murray back,

they could hit a big run. I could see that. They would be that they deserve the respect with Yokic playing how he has been playing. this year. He just needs somebody to run with him. I mean, this guy, everything is on him every night. If they got him back in time where he's playing, you know, a large part of the second part of the season, you could see them having an outstanding record. 100% of the rest of the way. They would be, and they deserve the respect. I mean, they've got the, they've got the best guy of those behind him. I, you know, you mentioned L.A. and you said, you know,

it wouldn't surprise you they made a run. I'm at the point it would surprise me. They stink. Really? Yeah, they're not any good. They're not any good. Look, I shouldn't be talking about this. It's the star power, Chris.

It's the star power aspect that I, you know? I get it. It doesn't fit. So you're totally out. But I think the reason why I feel that way is because for the reason you stated, the West is weaker. With this roster I'm out. With this roster I'm out.

And I think they're going to, I think they are going to, I think this roster for the Lakers is going to look radically different post-trade deadline. That's what my guess would be. They know they can't roll with this. I mean, look, I've said, when you go into the playoffs with LeBron and AD, I still love your chances. I'd still rather have that duo. The problem is the rest of it. They don't have like just role guys, you know, guys that know their role and just keep

the ball moving. I mean, when all that tom foolery about Caruso is the greatest team LeBron's ever had. Like, there is, like, while we goofed about it, there is some truth in the fact that, yeah, the reason that it works is because it's going to be a LeBron James show. And you've got to not take bad shots. You've got to cut to the basket. You've got to defend your position. And you've got to keep the ball moving. and that's it, you know, and it feels to me like they don't have guys that just do that. Those guys, the other ones, I mean, KCP, Kizma, Caruso, you know, I didn't think it was all that good. I thought they could certainly improve from that, but those guys knew their place within the team.

And it's not one of those situations it used to be for so many years. years. If you went out there and took some goofy-ass shot, LeBrono just look over at the coach and say, get his ass out of here. Like, you can't do that with Carmelo. You can't do that with Russell Westbrook. You can't do that with Avery Bradley. Like, that's not the guys that you say get his ass out of here. I mean, what you're touching on, Chris? It's like, just to compare the Lakers to the Nuggets here, the Nuggets getting Murray back, that fixes some things. They are outscoring teams by 186 points with Yokich on the floor. They're getting outscored by 197 points with Yokach off the floor. You stagger Murray and Yokich. That should

help those minutes where you don't have Yokic. The Lakers, the fixes are a lot more complicated because of the roster fit issues. I think with Denver, it's a bit more seamless. With the Lakers, you mentioned how this roster might look totally different after the trade deadline. My question is how? Because who is the player that you're trading that has value? Who on this team is getting you something in return that actually enhances what your team is? Because Horton Tucker, at this point,

people I talk to around the league before the season, they're thinking, yeah, maybe could be a piece for the Lakers. At this point, he's shooting 23% from 3, below 40% from the field. He has not been good. He has not made progress with the office. opportunities that he's been provided. His value is down.

Everybody else in this roster, like Carmelo isn't going to get you anything? Malik Monk, Ellington, Bradley, Baysmore, Austin Reeves, quality young guy, you know, but he's not getting you anything. Rondo, DJ, Dwight Howard, Arisa, where is the value on the roster? It's not there.

Where's the value with draft picks? They can only trade. their 2026 first rounder or their 2028 first rounder. They cannot give both because of NBA rules. So they can only trade a first round pick in 26 or 28 in Horton Tucker and then a bunch of guys that are older that really don't have any value. So for the Lakers here, what is the move? Who is even somebody that could be moved? What can be done here?

I look at the Lakers and I feel like they're kind of. stuck in the improvements need to come from what that's why i'm on russle westbrook chris the pieces have to change within well and they'll be a they'll be a buyout team like like they always are right like you know there will be you're always surprised but there'll be a buyout team there'll be a couple guys that latch onto them you know who's on the buyout market right now anyway like fad young maybe but san antonio can find a fad young deal absolutely that's not a hard deal will find. Right. I agree with you. John Wall. There's always guys.

But do you want John Wall with Russell Westbro? You want both of them? No. That's the that's the deal. You want both? Can you imagine that? I'm hoping they run it back with another deal, which would be absolutely hilarious. Chris, I'll tell you what, you were the first person to ever bring up

Westbrook for Wall part two. First person on planet Earth, I believe. Sources tell me that you're the first. that idea makes more and more and more It's that crazy week to week It makes more and more sense I was speaking it into existence

I even put it in my article this week Did you see that? I did I did I mean because here's the thing LeBron James and Clutch they know everything there is to know about John Wall's condition

They know everything there is to know about his mentality because John Wall is a Clutch client They know everything They know if it's worth going after a John Wall. Absolutely. Let's assume that Clutch believes John Wall gets in the court and he's going to be really good.

John Wall said to me in 2020 before he got traded for the first time for Russell Westbrook, how excited he was to play with Bradley Beale, how excited he was to take a backseat because for years he always had to be the guy running the offense. He wanted to do more spotting out, more cutting. He wanted to alleviate his workload. And I believe him. Sometimes you talk to players. and like they say things and you're like, you're full of shit.

I believe John Wall with that conversation that I had to him, because we talked for a long time about it openly and honestly. But let's say health-wise he's good. Let's say mentality-wise, he's willing to take a backseat to LeBron James. If you're LeBron, like, LeBron's smart enough to think like, damn, like this could be a way better fit with Wall, a better shooter than Westbrook, a more committed, focused defender than Westbrook,

a better cutter than Westbrook. a guy who in the past has done more of the little things more consistently than Westbrook. Hold on that. It makes some sense. It makes some sense, Chris. Look, I'm just saying because this is weird, because I'm not going to talk about how much better John Wall is than Russell Westbrookie is not. It is a better fit because it's a worse. Nope, because it's a worst player.

You need somebody. There's a reason why. Yeah, somebody that knows they're not the one. You need somebody bad. It's a better fit because he's a worst player. I love it. It's genius. It's genius.

But that's what we need. We need somebody worse than Russell Westbrook right now. Typically, typically he's worse. That's right. You know, you know, like it doesn't make any sense,

but it makes all the sense. all this is all this is the world. So I'm not going to tell you how much better John Wall is. I think it's a better fit because he's a worst player. And he would know, and he would know theoretically his role with him. They would know. They would 100% know. But it is a risk, though, because John Wall's played 40 games the last three years. His injury concerns are way more worrisome than Russell Westbrooks are. And also, the fact is, is that you would lose the upside of Russ. I knock Russ all the time.

Russ frustrates the hell out of me, but he's an unbelievable player. And, I mean, he was an unbelievable player, not so much anymore. And the upside that he can provide on one night to lift you up, that would be lost. And for the Lakers, that's why they got him

in the first place. And it just hasn't worked so far. And also, when I tweeted about that trade idea with the article the other day, Rockets fans were like, no, no, we don't want Russ back. What else are you going to give us? Because they want the worst player.

They also want the worst player who's not playing right now, by the way. They want the guy on the bench. Whatever that story like three weeks ago that John Wall was going to start playing. Yeah, what happens? I haven't seen anything reported there. And I personally haven't heard a peep. It was odd. Since that.

It was like John Wall's about to, he's about to start playing for the Rockets, and then it was like, oh, actually he's bad. And they wanted him starting, but he wanted to come off the bench. I think that's when I made my Garrison Matthews joke.

But Garrison Matthews has been really good. One thing that stood out from last night was the Bulls do keep on rocking. Vucevich had this crazy stat line last night. And they are now, two behind Brooklyn. And I think that we were all sitting back

going, you know what, if it does work, it could be really good, but I think they have much like we were talking about the Memphis team earlier, they have greatly exceeded whatever our highest expectation was of it all

fitting together. And no small part of that has been both Levine and DeRosen being simultaneously awesome this year. The fact that that has worked so well, you know, has been rather impressive. And the whole thing, and I don't think it is, I don't think it's crazy to think that they're going to be a top four, that they could be a home court advantage team.

And like I said, we didn't really know without seeing it. it was hard to know how it was all going to work and how it was all going to fit together. But Billy Donovan deserves some credit for sure. And the team being better defensively than we would have expected and certainly can be devastating offensively. And they've been able to do it with guys out of the lineup, which speaks to some of the depth that they have. It's not just their big stars on that team. The Bulls have been a really great story, and you look here now, we're at the end of 2021, and they're sitting as the second seed in the Eastern Conference.

What do you make of it? I'm a believer, Chris. I'm a believer in the Bulls. I mean, before the season, the whole deal with them was, well, this offense is going to click if these guys are sacrifice, if they play together, and they've done that. I mean, Caruso and Ball are not just the only guys in this team who are screening. and cutting and spotting up and doing the little things. You're seeing that from DeRosen. You're seeing that from Levine.

Those guys are scrapping and playing hard and playing selflessly. I mean, on multiple occasions this season, you've seen DeRosen willingly say, hey, Levine, it's your turn. You're failing it tonight. You have the better matchup. Or Levine say to DeRosen, it's your turn. You have the better opportunity now.

Those guys can trade off being the man. And that level of sacrifice that they have is the reason why that offense is clicking. Defensively, they've just been very, very good all year long. And Lonzo and Caruso are big reasons why they did not play in that win against the Hawks last night. But you mentioned Bukovic. He has been way, way, way better offensively the last couple of weeks after a sluggish start offensively with Chicago. The game he had last night was really kind of a symbol of what he's been doing.

lately. I'm not sure, Chris, I haven't put together by early all-NBA teams, but Vooch belongs on the pile of guys that will be in consideration for that third-team spot, because obviously you get Yokic, you got Gobert with those first team spots for center,

but... Hold on now. How about Embed? He's still there, yeah. And B, I'm just saying he's on the pile. Like, it could be a forward spot. I don't know how the NBA is going to list them. But I'm just saying Vouch, if you're considering the fact, his role on this Bulls team, if he's able to maintain nearly 20 points per game for the rest of the season.

The level of responsibility he has on the offense as a facilitator, his defense has been so good this year. It's been his best year of his career defensively, the rebounding. He's just checking all the boxes for what the Bulls need. Well, he also deserves massive credit for his response last night. So our buddies over at Stat Mews put out that he had 24.17 rebounds, six assists, blocks and four made threes and that no player in NBA history has ever had or exceeded that stat line. And so they went and asked him in the locker room and he says, it's nice to hear. But when it comes to those stats, I feel like you can make up a stat with anything nowadays.

Then he said, I feel like stats at general should be like 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 games. So it's consistent. Obviously, it's hard to find the same exact stat as I had. is random. 17 is random. It's nice, obviously. I'm glad I played well, and I was able to do a good all-around game to help us win.

But as far as that, it's nice, but I don't necessarily care to be the only player to do that. That's a great response. It's unbelievable. They're like, do you know that no one's ever had 24, 17, this,

and he's like, what? Those are just random-ass numbers. He must not love the Bill Simmons podcast. Oh, it's so funny, though. It's really, it's really funny. That's funny. Also, like, with him, just to be clear here,

Embed would be ahead of vouch for all NBA. I'm just saying, like, if the NBA does what they often do, listing guys of center as forward, he belongs in the pile in consideration for a 13th spot. He's been that good. Well, and he's also shooting, you know, I mentioned the three-pointers being a part of that stat last night. He's 36% now. I mean, that's moved up.

And, you know, the shooting from the field hasn't been as good, but that three-point number is just a tick up of his career percentage. But that was lower, and he's gotten that up. So, man, with his ability to stretch the floor with the two guys that can get to the rim at will, the space that he provides by being able to knock down threes just can make them really a tough guard. It's so important, man. I mean, like, I was on Ryan Russela's spot this week, and we talked about really the only missing piece that they have

is that big, burly defender, you know, a guy that you can throw on to Janus, a guy that you can, you know, a lengthy defender that you can throw on to KD. Patrick Williams, if he's able to get back with the wrist injury that he has, sometime toward the end of the regular season or during the playoffs, getting him back or some type of equivalent type of player. That's really all that I feel like Chicago is missing. Other than that, with the Rosen and Levine, you got the scores.

Lonzo and Caruso, you've got your wing defenders. Vouch is such a great versatile defender. They have other quality pieces that fit around all of that. They're just missing that lengthy defender. If they can find that, they have all the pieces that are required to win a championship. So All-Star voting started. Vucevic, as you mentioned, he's going to have a chance.

I mean, they would have a chance of maybe getting three simply because of Deroza and Levine are going to make that team. So as we know, they better make that team. 50% goes to the fans, 25% of the media, 25% for the players. This is possibly the strangest year I can ever remember. You have so many big time stars in the league that have not played or are now injured. You have a lot of guys that have missed a lot of time. Guys that are mainstays on all-star teams that their spot might not be their spot anymore.

We know there's two back courts, there's three front courts, there's seven bench guys. And I was kind of going through who are locks for this. and there's not as many as I would have suspected. Clearly in the West, Curry, Chris Paul, and Donovan Mitchell, Devin Booker will be there too. He'll make that team. But I don't know about Luca.

I don't know about Dame. You know, these spots that I would have at the beginning of the year just marked in. Those guys are going to be all-stars for sure. And then you're going to have, as I mentioned, Booker and then you've got Morant, you've got Anthony Edwards, you got some other guys that could be first timers, maybe dependent upon what happens over the course of the next couple of weeks. But you do have, you know, there's no Kauai.

Paul George is now going to miss a lot of time. Anthony Davis is going to miss a lot of time. I mean, this is going to be strange this year as to see how these All-Star teams are constructed and as I said, they started the voting. But if you gave me a ballot right now, it's hard to come by. So I just tried to like write down first timers. I think Morant will get there. I think Lamello has a chance.

Fred Van Vlead has a chance. But I would say Garland has to make it. There's Garland. He has to make it. You know, the Locke's Durant, Janus, Embed, for sure. I think De Rosen, I think probably Jimmy Butler. But I mean, you have guys that were last years. Who knows on Vooge?

Julius Randall, Sabonis, they may be out. I mean, I just, as they announced this voting, Kev, and I'm thinking about this, I'm like, man, this All-Star team could look a whole lot different than last years and the years before, where we're just used to penciling in. Those guys are All-Stars. I think there's going to be a whole new crop. What one name you didn't mention is how about Ben Simmons? How about him?

What is he? Did you see Clutch Sports tweeted out on December 25th at 3.20 p.m. Retweet to vote for hashtag NBA All-Star at Ben Simmons 25. No, they didn't. Yes, they did. It has 15,000 retweets, Chris. What the heck? 15,000 retweets.

All-Star? Clutch sports tweeted out all of their players. all of their clients like Anthony Edwards us on their brain in Boston Cam Reddish Darius

Basley has 40 retweets Darius Garland 871 retweets Ben Simmons has 15 000 retweets

and those those all count as votes they all count as votes well that's not going to matter oh I'm saying all I'm saying is

you know what let me go look let me go look the east front court real quick. Durant, Janice, MB, they'll have it for sure, probably Tatum. I imagine DeRosen, probably Jimmy Butler. They'll probably get the other ones. And then maybe one of the Cleveland guys, like an Allen or a Mowgli,

could at least get some love, given that that team has been spectacular this year. The weird one is that, you know, the West, and you have LeBron and Yoke But, I mean, all those other guys, perennial guys like Anthony Davis and Paul George, both have big injuries. Kauai Leonard, Zion Williamson. They're completely out. Both of them were on the All-Star team last year. And this matters a lot to guys. Guys do want to make All-Star teams.

It is a feather in their cap. And it does, they want to be recognized. Say this, like, there's some of these guys that might have a chance. And Katie barred the door, when I say this, because you may, I don't know what you're going to do, but I was looking through it. And I was like, damn, man, that is a lot of dudes that are out. And I was like, who's going to make this? Well, you usually get a bunch of guys off the best teams. So you've got Paul and Booker for sure.

They're going to get it. Aiton will probably get there. But if they have three, then they'll probably get if the Warriors have three, it might be. Andrew Wiggins All-Star. It's not out of the question. He was asked about that yesterday, wasn't he? He was? I think so, and he's like, if I make it, I make it,

you know, I'm not worried about it. I'm pretty sure he was asked about that. I mean, he's averaged at 19, 4 and 3bounds, 2 assist. I mean, Curry and Draymond will make it for sure, but they may get Andrew Wiggins. I mean, don't you also have to consider as well, Chris. There will be guys who get named All-Stars, and then they either

choose not to go to Cleveland for All-Star Weekend, or they themselves get caught up in COVID protocols and a replacement player for the All-Star game needs to be named. So, like, instead of 24 guys, the 22 All-Star team could end up being like 35 players. It could be. So that could happen as well, too. The interesting thing is going to be like the fan voting because you can't do anything about that. And I do wonder if it's going to be.

percent. Curry is for sure. Well, no, it counts 50%. 50%. Media is 25 and players are 25. But, I mean, in terms of the starting lineup, that's going to be, it's going to be votes. Ben Simmons.

Ben Simmons. Hey. Vote him in. Vote him in. Retweet that clutch tweet. Oh, that's outrageous. This is unbelievable. 15,000 retweets.

That's got to be bots. right. It's got to be bought. It's hilarious, Chris. I saw that on Christmas Day pop up in my timeline and I just couldn't stop laughing. Like, Zach Levine, Zach Levine has 1.5K retweets. I'm fully deserving All-Star. Benz, it says 15.

I think it just speaks to people who wanted to be funny. Exactly. Right. He's going to get voted in. I'm telling you, when the NBA unveils like the top 10 at each position, you're going to see Ben Simmons on there for the fan vote. He's going to be in the top son. It's going to be funny.

It's going to be hilarious. It is going to be funny. If Ben Simmons is really on the top 10, there's no way. 50,000 is not that many. What if he gets voted in and he returns to Philly or gets trained? They would stop it. Adam Silver would stop. Remember when Caruso was in the top three at one point?

A couple years ago? Yes. Good stuff. of Adam Silver here was a topic that I didn't want to touch on with you because we were not able to speak on this. Yeah, yeah, let's talk about it. I love this. Thank you.

I'm glad we agree on this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You've got this in-season tournament and the first thing that came to mind when I was reading Woj's article about it. So let me just clear this up. Adam Silver's plan for mid-season tournament is gaining traction. And the

proposed format would be December pool play, a pre-Christmas finals, and, and this is one of the things that I've wondered about, which is how do you get players to really care about winning this? I think giving them a million dollars each is exactly a great way for you to get everybody to care. If you told guys that they were going to get a million bucks, forget the professional pride, personal pride. Every time you want to play, you want to win. Like all that stuff.

Like you got all that. And then you say, oh, yeah. And everybody on the team is going to get a million bucks if you win the thing. I promise you, you are going to get a very heightened level of play. and these poor referees that was one of the things that came to my mind I mean this is this is millions of dollars on the line

for these guys but man I couldn't be more excited about this idea I think it's great and I think you have I think they have figured out a way to make people to make players care

even if they wouldn't normally, no matter what team you are, if you know you've got a million bucks on the line each personally, holy, holy, I love it, I love it. Yeah, so I feel like there's a lot of, any time Woj tweets about it, there's a mixed reaction. Anytime Shams tweets about it, there's a mixed reaction.

Like, why screw up the regular season? Why change the way it isn't? People can feel however they want about it. I understand change could be scary, but I'll tell you what, man, like personally, I get fired up about the idea of early regular season, factoring into tournament seating,

and then you get this midseason tournament. I think about it in the long term here in two different ways. A, let's say this year, let's just say, I don't know, let's throw out the Sons. Let's say the Sons won the mid-season tournament. and let's say they got best regular season record. And let's say they won the NBA finals.

That could be a rarity in NBA history for an NBA team to essentially have like a triple crown. You won the in-season tournament. You got best record and you won the NBA finals. Like that could be a historical thing that develops over the course of time. That becomes the new tradition, a team that was dominant throughout the entire NBA calendar year. You're going to have instances where teams maybe suffer. a traumatic injury in the playoffs that derails their odds of winning the NBA finals, but they had an unbelievable year winning the in-season tournament.

Financially as well, this is going to be something from people I've talked to around the league the last couple of years. The tournament will be something that is packaged and sold to maybe Amazon. All games could air on Amazon streaming services. Something like this could be a big financial boon for the NBA, which could raise player salaries over the course of time, bringing even more than just a million dollar reward for the winners of the tournament,

but more financial rewards for everybody across the league that has felt for many, many years to come. And think about the financial losses the past couple years through the pandemic, this could help regain some of that and make even more of it. And just from a fan perspective, I just get excited about games mattering early in the season.

And like that, that's what the plan did. Games matter more late. games can matter more early with the in-season tournament, and they still matter for later because they all count towards the regular season standings as well. Because the NBA has something a different issue than the NFL. So the NFL, because of fantasy football, because of gambling, they get interest in games that people would not normally have interest in. And I'll give you an example. The other night, my son and I, whenever it was an Eagles game that was on, he has a fantasy football team with all of his friends at school.

He was playing against a guy that had Dallas Goddard on the team. The guy had Dallas Goddard on the team. And so he needed Dallas Goddard to not get X amount of points. we had that game on until the very end because at the end of the game, I think it was a game against the football team. So it was two weeks ago. But the way that game played out was Dallas Goddard got the ball at the very end of the game. And he went and he kneeled.

He kneeled down before the two-minute warning. Probably could have taken it to the house. Now, I wouldn't care. I hate the Eagles. I wouldn't care at all. certainly my son wouldn't care at all, but they got us watching until the end of that game just to see if he was going to lose his fantasy football matchup.

And it speaks to how sometimes with that sport, there are reasons to care about games that don't involve your favorite team. All right? Take Francis last night. If I didn't host this podcast with you, there is no chance I would keep up with anything that wasn't just the Grizzlies and the Suns. And I certainly don't expect.

For last night, who gives a crap who wins these games last night? I mean, honestly, who cares about the Jazz and the Spurs, regular season game? With all the guys out, you mean? With all the players out and everything. Even if they were all playing, Kevin,

it's game 33. Who gives a crap? It's one game. It's by the wayside, unless something historical takes place. There's no, there's no level. in that. I've got no skin in the game. I don't particularly care who wins the game,

but if you gave that game stakes, now all of a sudden last night, there's no chance I'm missing Jazz Spurs. If I know that it might mean the Jazz could get knocked out of a tournament, or if the Timberwolves win over the Celtics meant something besides it being embarrassing to the Celtics. Like imagine if that knocked them out or something. Like, yeah, because guess what? They're going to play another game tonight. And, you know, there'll be a whole new set of storylines about the team and about who got the opportunity to play and whatever else. And so I'm just all for giving things real meaning.

It happened the last month of last season, which would be the dog days. It happened because of that play yet. You and I came on here a thousand times and said, that game last night was so much more meaningful because, and now we cared about the standings and who's in 10 and who's in 8. And oh, my God, this team might have to win twice. And oh, geez, are Curry and the Warriors going to make the playoffs? Oh, man, could the Lakers have to, you know, just scratch their way in?

Like, all those games the last month of the season mattered. And so I'm all for, even if it's this way, finding a way to make games matter that wouldn't normally. 100%, Chris. I mean, the playing is kind of the opposite here. Like, late games mattered more because more teams were in it because the 6-7 spot. When you're 6, you're locked into the postseason. When you're 7, you got to win a game with the play in. It made it matter.

Those teams that were on the bubble 10, 11, 12, 13, like this year could be different than last year. This year could actually be more exciting. When you think about last season, there was kind of a differential. Besides New Orleans and Sacramento, nobody else was even close to the playing in the Western Conference. This year in the Western Conference, there's like five games of separation between the five seed and the 14 seat. And that'll stretch out over the course of the year. But maybe not. Maybe this will be a year where remember last year we talked about?

The incentive in the plane is if a team has an early season injury, then they'll be. that guy comes back mid-year, you still get a chance. You're still in it. Your season's not over. Zion Williamson, if he's able to come back and stay healthy, if Ingram can get back from the sore Achilles, they're not out of it. If OKC were to say, you know what, screw it, we're going to trade for some bonus and get better. Maybe they push in for the playing. I don't know if that's for the best long term, but every team can feel like that they're in it. And with the in-season tournament at the beginning of the season, it just creates incentive for those early games

to matter and have stakes to be relevant for fans that are investing their time and money into these games. And like, if you're a Spurs fan and it's during pool play and you're thinking about your potential opponent, you might tune in for that Hornets, Grizzlies game that you otherwise wouldn't have.

And that game is going to, it's going to count towards the regular season standings. So it does matter for the traditional regular season standings for the traditional playoff standings, but it also matters for getting into the in season tournament, which is where the money is for the players, which is where the single elimination is. Single elimination is fun, Chris. Who doesn't love single elimination? Because you have to come up with ideas as a how to create interest in, it's an 82 game. season. And people can say, well, these guys are paid millions of dollars and they should play

hard every single night. The level of play you will get in this thing will just be different. It's going to be. You think the Celtics lose to the, like, all right, maybe they would have. Maybe they would have. But I promise you this, you think you get the same effort out of that, out of that Boston team last night. If I tell them there's a million bucks on the game, You think they lose you think Jordan the well goes for 29? I mean, maybe he does. He did Greg Monroe,

who signed three hours before comes on as busting their ass? I would like to guess that if, and you could say, well, they shouldn't have to incentivize the guys to give it their role every night. It's 82 games. It's just impossible to have the level of focus, energy and everything else.

And that's another thing, right? The NFL, they only have 16 games. So every single game, is a high leverage situation and could make the difference in your season. That's just not so.

It's just one of 82 games the other way. But now you've found another way to make at least a patch of that schedule really matter. And people care about it and get a heightened level of play in the middle of the season. I wish they do it.

I mean, I hope they do. I hope it happens by next season. I hope it all is able to happen. It could. Woj did say it could become part of the calendar for 2022, 23, or 23, 24. So it's next season or the season after that. I hope it happens sooner than later.

Like, why wait? Why wait? Just do it, experiment. And like with the plan, there's going to be a mixed reaction. But I'm willing to bed as soon as this thing happens. People are going to fall in love with it. And here's my one question about it, Chris. Will there be any more incentive? besides the money.

Will the NBA have these games count? It would be an eight-team single-elimination tournament. So let's say you win the whole thing. Do those three wins you get count also towards the regular season standings, as in like their bonus games? So they are money for the players, but also it would be three extra wins into the standings that could give you an edge,

for playoff seating. So, like, that would be the reward? People say, why would teams have players play? Why would players not rest in this? They don't care about the million is the dollars. John Wall is making $45 million. This guy's making $40 million. It would matter if you get three extra dubs in the standings that help you out.

Like, to me, that is something the NBA should consider with the playing, with the in-season tournament games counting. Do the losses count? No, I don't think those would. I think only the wins would. only the wins would something like that I'm just speaking

aloud here you know just spitballing yeah could give them maybe maybe you could give a draft pick

but the problem is a 31st pick like a compensation pick something like that give them the 10th pick man why not well the problem is

because then maybe after the lottery we got a whole bunch of guys in your team like hold on now I'm trying to win so somebody could take my job

yeah how about 15 right outside the lottery 15 yeah right outside the lot that's not bad really

I think 31 is fair. If you're just trying to incentivize it, I mean, it's too early to make it count for a playoff spot or something. I don't know. You could.

I mean, you could guarantee yourself as a playoff spot if you weren't a playoff team. I don't like to guarantee. That's too much. That's why I think, like, if you win each of your games, that should count towards the standards. I tell you this.

Those guys would rather have a million bucks anyway. I don't know if you. You might not eat anything else. No, I don't think you do. I don't think you do. I guess the question would be like, while those, that eight team single elimination tournament is happening,

what are all the other 22 teams doing? Are they getting a little break? Are they playing traditional regular season games? Are they, I don't know. I'm just wondering what happens during that stretch. I'm sure it all has to be flushed out. All right.

Kevin, as we are wrapping up 2021, one piece of news before we get to our final thing, the nets are getting guys back. We are going to see Kyrie Irving play basketball, which is good. I'm looking forward to watching them play. My son got a pair of Kyrie 8 that just dropped. Kids love Kyrie shoes.

It was one of his Christmas gifts. Oh, let me just say this. Basketball-wise, players, anybody that plays basketball, like there's a lot of basketball shoes that are made for like fashion now. more so than basketball. The Kyrie's are great, like, basketball shoes. He loves his. Absolutely loves him.

And the new ones look cool, even though I haven't seen him on Kyrie Irving. Who would have thought that my son would wear Kyrie 8 before Kyrie? But anyway, we are going to see him on an NBA court. I would imagine in his new shoes. And I feel like we're going to get to see Harden Durant and Kyrie Irving on the court at the same time. But even as Kyrie is going to be available. Oh, I guess they're saying Durant's out too, huh? Yeah, Durant's out of protocol.

Steve Nash did say last night, one to two weeks for Kyrie to ramp up. Okay. Hopefully by that time we could, you know, nobody gets hurt. We could see them all in the court at the same time. But yeah, Aldridge, Durant, and Kyrie all out of protocols. As we wrap up 2021, I was trying to think of everybody always does those like year-end list or whatever. And I was just trying to think, let me see if you agree with me. The best moment of 2021 NBA-wise was the Janus 50-point performance.

Yes, 100%. And it's like not even close, right? couldn't even think of anything in the same hemisphere. Yeah, that was special. I don't even know what was even close to that. Like that, that's forever. A couple good Poku moments last year from his rookie season.

That time Killeen Hayes hit a shot. Yeah, that time Killeen Hayes hit a jump shot. Yeah, that was great. Yeah, that made me happy. Well,

we can hit mine too then. When Luke Walton tried to put the Marvin back in the game and he said, nah, I'm good. That was another special moment in 20, 2021. Giannis ordering the 50 piece nuggets, not 49, not 51, 50. I want 50.

That was so good. Well, we certainly do want to thank everybody for listening to us throughout 2021. It was unbelievable to see so many people sending us their Spotify wrapped, et cetera, over the course of the year. And I saw a thing that people like downloaded and listened to us in 115 different countries. Wow. That's unbelievable. 115. How many countries are there? I don't know. Don't ask me. I'm stupid. 115 different countries. I was like, yo.

There are 195 countries. How many? I just Googled 195 according to Google. All right. So we got 80 to go in 2020. That's our goal. Who are we missing? I don't know. I don't know the 80 were missed. I just saw that it was 115. But anyway, thank you so much to all of you that spent time listening to us and have spent time listening to us throughout 2021 and a happy new year to everybody. Yourself included, Kevin O'Connor. Thanks to our executive producer Jesse Lopez, as always. No show on Friday, right? No show on Friday, but we'll be back next Tuesday and Friday moving forward in the new year. And I'm looking forward to it, Chris. I'm very excited. I think this time

a year is challenging for everybody right now and for the NBA as well. But basketball is going to be very good in 2022. I can feel it. Hopefully brighter days ahead. And we'll see a bunch of players that we know. Like a bunch of players we know. Yes. I do. I did see. I did like seeing Greg Bono back in the floor. Oh, I love I love too to get some of these games and I'll be like, I'll be damn. There was a guy last night. If you if you watch the John Morant game winner last night. The bench is going insane. And there is a guy on the bench.

And my son turned to me and he said, who is that? And I was like, I don't know. Now you got to remember, I'm part of the post game crew. I was like, I don't know. I was like, William, I don't know who that is. So yesterday, they. had signed a guy that I missed, Xavier Sneed. And he was in like the warmups and he's going crazy on the sidelines.

And I had no idea who it was, Xavier Sneed. He was from the Hornets G League team. And he's from St. Louis. And he played at Kansas State. And I don't know what. And there he was. He's celebrating this great moment. And he said,

Who is that? I don't know. I think a stranger just stole a warm-up. I don't know. How about Brandon Knight coming off the bench for the Mavericks and scoring 18 points against that horrific, sad, depressing Blazers defense? 18 for Brandon Knight. Amazing.

Brandon Knight. What? Yeah. Brandon Knight. Oh, my goodness. What a time. The resurrection of Brandon Knight. Unreal.

Kevin, it's always a pleasure. Thanks again to Jen. Jesse Lopez, our producer, and we will talk to you next week. Happy New Year, everybody.