The Mismatch - Grizzlies-Lakers Analysis, Draymond’s Suspension, Bucks Cruise Without Giannis, and Potential Playoff Adjustments

Episode Date: April 20, 2023

Fresh off the Grizzlies’ Game 2 victory over the Lakers, Verno and KOC discuss how the Grizz were able to tie up the series despite not having Ja Morant (01:19). They move on to the teams in the East, as they discuss the Bucks bouncing back against the Heat while still being without Giannis, Trae Young’s playoff inefficiency, and why Caris LeVert is a luxury for the Cavs against the Knicks (20:03). After the Suns tied up their series against the Clippers, the guys agree that this matchup will be more fun than anyone could have expected (36:53). Also, the guys debate whether the NBA made the right decision in suspending Draymond Green and briefly touch upon the Nuggets taking a 2-0 series lead over the Timberwolves (45:26). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Sean Fennessey, one of the hosts of the Prestige TV podcast. HBO's Barry is back for a fourth and final season, and that means I'll be back recapping the show with co-creator and star Bill Hater to dive deep on the themes, scenes, and major moments in the series. Bill will provide insight into how every episode was made and why it's ending. New Prestige TV Barry recaps will go live every Sunday night when the episode ends, so make sure you're subscribed to the Prestige TV podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to The Mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon.

and joining me earlier in the week than he usually does is Kevin O'Connor from the ringer, aka Kevin O'Bomber, Kevin O'Connor, Kevin O'Conflict, Kevin O'Candyland, Kevin O'Clymer, Kevin O'Carriks. Kevin O'Hourne! Look at you. You got a red tie on, all fresh from your Grizzlies post-game show, celebrating the victory. You got a grizzlies towel from the game. 20, 23 playoffs,

round one, game two, waving the towel. Look at Chris. He's so happy right now. I can't even hide the smile on a space. That was a fun game. It really was.

Let me tell you why I have an even bigger smile than usual. And it is because of this very show. Oh, yeah. I'm sure it is. No, we'll get to that. Trust me.

Mr. Kevin, oh, it's over. After I got done, As I was leaving the arena, there was a guy after I got off the air that was standing there. And I could tell he was waiting until we got done, super, super nice guy. And I walked up and he's like, hey, Chris, I wanted to introduce myself.

And he said, my name's Mike. And I flew in here from Hawaii. And I was like, what? And he's like, I flew in from Hawaii. And I was like, you're a Grizzlies fan from Hawaii? And he was like, yes. He's like, I've got league pass. And I'm a huge Grizzlies fan.

So I flew in for these games. And I was like, how did you become a Grizzlies fan in Hawaii? And he was like, listening to the mismatch. Wow. That is awesome. Listening to the ringer. He goes, I've been listening to you guys for years. He's like, I'm a huge fan of you guys.

And I didn't have a team. and I started watching, and I've got League Pass, and so I flew in for these games, and I wanted to take the time to come by here and say, hey, and he knew we were recording tonight. And I just left the arena to walk over here and record. And that was like, that was one of those really, like, cool moments. The guy was beaming.

He was so happy after that game. And I was like, what in the world? Grizzly fan from Hawaii. So shout out to Mike, who's been a longtime listener. of the pod. It made me feel good right before we're about to record this. Shout out, Mike. That is so cool.

All the way from Hawaii, what is that? Like a four connection flight to get to Memphis? Oh, God, there's no telling. There's no telling how long it took him to get to Memphis from Hawaii. That's so cool. I love it.

But yeah, he was there at the game tonight. It was very good atmosphere to say the least, and the Grizzlies did even it up against the Lakers tonight. You know, there were a couple major things that I, was left with when I was watching it. You know that it's going to determine what a series is going to be based on what you see many times in game two. You know, the team that wins is not going to make

nearly the adjustments that the team that loses makes. And so if you have teams that are both good teams, you expect that there is going to be a give and take that goes on throughout a series, that teams are going to correct the things that hurt them badly and the reason that they took that first loss. And there are sometimes where that game two, if it's no closer, like what we saw in, say, Hawk Celtics, it's like, okay, like it doesn't matter what they do. Okay. And I know that people could say, well, it doesn't matter. You know, the series doesn't start until the home team loses a game. Like, all you had to do is watch that.

And it's like, when you go in and you try to make adjustments and then you come back out and you get pasted again, you're in trouble. And so I certainly expected that the Grizzlies would be able to play a much better game in game two. And then the series kind of levels out as it goes on once two teams have won games. And one of the things that we had talked about after game one was, I said, I don't know how you do it, but you might just have to go small. You've got to get Davis away from the basket.

He's just too big of a defensive menace. You can't just allow this guy to play drop coverage. And so what you saw tonight was, surprisingly to me, Taylor Jenkins sticking with Tillman because he needs the muscle. And Tillman ended up being the leading scorer on the team. Fantastic tonight. Best player on the floor, genuinely. He was. Well, and this is, you've talked about this so many times in terms of strategy of basketball, and that is if you are the guy that is not respected, how can you make yourself intensely useful? And so in this particular case, what you saw all night was they would bring the ball up,

And you've got two of the best three-point shooters of the last decade in Kennard and Bain. And Tyos Jones would dribble handoff to them. Now Tillman sets a screen for either Conard or Bain, and you have absolutely no choice. If you're Davis, you have to be out there. And then it was just slip, slip, slip, slip, slip. And he's just barreling towards a basket, and it's a layup line. And it's like finishing. It's finishing.

It left side of the rim, right side of the rim didn't matter. And how many times do we see the guys that aren't respected, many times don't get involved in the offense like that, right? What is a way that they can make Anthony Davis have to, if he's not going to respect Tillman away from the basket, then you make him respect Bain or you make him respect Kinnard or you make him respect somebody out there. And so really good strategy and it ended up that Tillman, and ends up having the game of his life because he's the guy that like, okay, if you're not going to pay me mind, how can I become super useful?

The other thing is, this game had like virtually no fast break points in the entire game. A lot of half court, yeah? Yeah, that that is not in the Grizzly's favor to play that kind of basketball. You said that all year long with Memphis, you know,

something like playing, when you play their style, they have the advantage. Right. Ultimately tonight, Taylor Jenkins came with such a good offensive game plan. And you know, you mentioned the roll into the basket by Tellman, but, you know, he had some post-ups as well, like against Vanderbilt in the first quarter.

He had one against AD, you know, sealing him off inside in the first or second quarter, if I remember correctly. I mean, like, it wasn't just rolling to the basket. He was, like, using his body and overpowering those guys inside. I mean, he was sensational tonight. I think for Memphis tonight, I mean, obviously, you know, like I tweeted out the stat, I saw you tweet, people can't make the story about, oh, they're bitter without John and all that.

But this is another example of how deep this team has been and how good their drafting has been. It's kind of the opposite of what we've talked about with the Warriors, with how poorly they've built with Stefan Curry and all their youth. The Grizzlies now 33 and 17 going back to last season without John Morant. When people will say they're better without John, that's like, ha ha laughs. You know, Jha raises their ceiling.

But that success without Jha, 33 wins out of 50 games. And also 2 and 2 in the playoffs of those 50 games as well. Like they win one last year, blow out the Warriors, and they just win this one tonight. That is a testament to Tyos Jones' best backup point guard in basketball. He just does not make mistakes. Eight assists to one turnover tonight.

He is such a good, you know, he steadies that, ship so well running the show and all these other guys that can step up i mean david roddy john conchar he had the two blocks on ad but he was also in the area on so of the other misses by 80 around the basket this entire team up and down the roster this is you know it's not just john moran it's a top down roster and that's a testament to their drafting and how these guys like you said with tilman embrace their roles well and they their guards were not good tonight for the lakers no i mean Russell was Delo was a mess

I mean offensively 2 of 11 but then defensively you know he had that play I tweeted out where like you have on the strong side he just leaves Luke Kinnard who you rightfully said one of the better three-point shooters of the last decade that's just a fact you know

that they don't necessarily have the big name he's not Clay Thompson but statistically Kinnard and Bainer both way over 40 plus percent in their career they're number one and number two in terms of guys that have taken like over 300 attempts in the last couple of years. Absolutely. And so like you leave him on the strong side of the pick and roll.

And then you have this lazy close out to him. It was just a terrible defensive game by Russell, a terrible offense of game, kind of the inverse of what we talked about after game one, where, you know, Rui had another good game. They still got, you know, I read that he has the highest three point percentage now. I think in playoff history. He's like 16 of 24.

It's crazy. Yeah, well, I mean, you know. The guy shot 29%. He can't miss. Chris, there are 82 game players and there are 16 game players. And Ruehachimura is a 16 game player. Very clearly. He really might be.

Who knows? What if he's one of those guys who just turns on in the playoffs? You look at his year with Washington two years ago. He was 9 of 15. unbelievable. He hit like a move of like a two dribble pull up where he elevated and hit an elbow jumper. I'm like, is this guy frigging Kauai?

I know. What is going on? I thought of you when that happened. I was like, Verno must be losing it right now. But really, though, for like the Lakers side of things, though, yeah, Rui, you know, was good. Delo stunk.

A.D., man. A.D. Like, he was good defensively. He did his job considering what you said they made him do, pulling him out. but four or 14, not crashing the boards, contact adverse. Every time he touched the ball, he's fading away, fading away. And like only 14 shots, that can't happen on a night that your team can't score.

You've got to give him a little break, though. Like, after you get your soul snatched out of your body by John Conchar, it's hard to play the rest of the game. Oh, I mean, he had. Soul snatch. I know you're joking. But he stunk before that. He stunk after that. He just wanted to quit basketball after that.

Maybe he knew it was coming. Like he just did, tonight's the night John Contra steals my soul. I saw the vision in my dreams last night. I actually thought it was a pretty good LeBron game too for them. Yeah. I mean, it was not a bad one. Are you aware?

He was so tired. Are you aware of the Dylan Brooks quote? Oh. Are you aware? Am I aware that LeBron James is going for 40 in game three? So you are aware that I saw it right before we went on the air. He doesn't, Dylan Brooks said after the game, he's old.

I poke bears. I don't respect someone until he gives me 40. And he said also, what are the chances LeBron doesn't go for 40? Well, he also said, I wish I got the chance to defend him in Cleveland or Miami. Oh, no, you don't. No, you don't. When he started out, look, look, when he, his first, like, half of the first quarter, when he was one for six, Kevin, when I tell you, I was losing my mind. Oh, my God.

Oh, yeah, I bet. And they're all bad shots. All of them. Oh, he hit the two big ones. Like some wild-ass drive, some pull-up in transitions. Like, what are you doing? This can't happen again. He is something else.

Thank God he had some foul trouble. He really is something else, man. Like saying, like you're, you straight up are calling LeBron James old and saying it would have been a harder task. It would have been a harder task to defend him in Miami or Cleveland. I mean,

what a way to call him out and set up for game three on Saturday now back in L.A. LeBron James. He's ridiculous, man. Look, you know he's ridiculous because how about when he hit that three at the end and then just acts like he's, Oh, God, I love it.

Like he's been burying people all game. I love, I dude, I love that stuff. Oh, my God. That is the funniest thing to me. And also, just the way he looks, you know, just Dylan Brooks has like such a troll villain look to him. And then you add on the way he dresses on top of that. This is a true story.

He's such a troll. I love it. We were at dinner tonight before the game, and I told my producer, I said, that dude really thinks. he's better than LeBron James. Like, if you asked him, there are some guys that, like, you know, put on the front or whatever,

and of course, that's assonide, right? But I promise you, if you asked him, he thinks he's, he thinks he's that level. Yeah. And that's why he is who he is, you know what I mean? And there's a,

he brings a lot of good to the table, and he'll really fight on defensive possessions for sure. and he'll really antagonize and he can bring a lot of energy but my God, some of the shots he takes are honestly Kevin in 20 years of covering the NBA they're some of the worst shots I've ever seen they're just absolutely heinous

heinous but they're able to get that win and so now it becomes as we talked about after game one and I told you I'd panic after two if there's you know if things don't get corrected but at this point i always think of these series like this once it's a one-to-one series yes you have uh give it up your home court advantage but you've got to go three and two against a team the rest of the way it's the way i always view it

you're not going four and one against them so it becomes a must win you're not winning four out of five against that team or against any team that is a real peer and worth their salt. But, I mean, I just listened to three straight days of everybody putting L.A. in the Western Conference finals and putting them against the Warriors in the next round, even though the Warriors probably aren't going to be in the next round. And so it's going to be fascinating to see how everybody turns after this game, or if there is a turn. Do you still think the Grizzlies are in big trouble against his team?

I still think they need Jha to win the series. Yeah. he'll be back by Saturday. I think so. Will he be effective, though? All reports say he troubling, like gripping the ball, dribbling the ball, shooting the ball. I mean, once they announced that it was a pain tolerance thing, I don't care. He'll play with pain tolerance.

But will he be effective? To your point, yes, the effective thing. He will not play if he thinks he's going to be ineffective. and you just got a long time. I mean, if you hurt the thing on Sunday, game three is not until Saturday. Remember how we talked about before the series? You said to me,

the deeper this series goes, the more advantageous it is for the Grizzlies with the time off. It turns out the time off could actually be helpful for Memphis early on here. It is advantageous. But now it's at least going five games at minimum, right? It's at least going five games. and there's going to be another game in Memphis.

But those 5, 6, 7 are a day apart. And I don't know if you were why. The third quarter, LeBron was like calling for sub, calling for sub. And they could only put them on the bench for like a couple of minutes. And the other thing is they are getting smoked on the non-A.D. minutes. Oh, for as bad as AD, you know, can feel versus what he can be. he can be the most dominant figure on the court.

There's still like, plus 70 something in his minutes and minus 20 something in his non-minute. They still need him defensively. He's still effective. And he was affected tonight, I thought. It's just he was an absolute zero offensively. It was terrible. Yeah. So that one is Saturday night.

Are you still going to go? Saturday night. Yep, I'm going. I'm going. Saturday night. So you will be there. And I would not be surprised if you see Moran. for that game.

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I'm watching this going. on my phone as I'm at this game. And I'm like, they got 81 at halftime. That is an absurd number. Absurd. Brooke Lopez had more shots in the paint in the first quarter than he did in all of game one. The Bucks had more shots in the restricted area in the first quarter than they did in all of game one. Do you remember when we were at the very beginning of the season and I had seen the heat in person and I told you, they got nothing alongside Ben,

Damn. I know. They have no size. And Capella totally exposed it in that game for the play in with Atlanta. And then it was not exposed by the Bulls, you know, and then they get to this one. And it's like, you know, make them too little. They don't have. Damn has to do everything himself.

And he's not some hulking giant. No. And by the way, bam. because of that, as you just said, because of that, BAM by mid-season was not like all defensive caliber. And that's because he was tired. Of course. He had to do all that over the course of the season.

He had to do all the banging inside. He had to handle all those tough matchups boxing out and all the responsibilities of a five when really, Bam would be better in that, you know, Jaron Jackson, Janus, Robert Williams-style role where he can sometimes play the five, but a lot of the time play the four. and roam off ball and just wreak havoc.

He can't do that in Miami. This is how Ibaka was, you know, long ago, too, for those Oklahoma City teams. I mean, yeah, we've seen it a million times. Or Toronto, Toronto, the Gasoli-Baka front courts with those two guys together. Sure, take the guy that can and let him fly around, and he can be that helpside defender over and over again. The thing is, though, Chris, is like, it's so much easier said than done to build a roster like that that can be effective. And this speaks to the greatness of Brooke Lopez. There is only one Brooke Lopez.

There's only one Brooke Lopez who can, on nights like game two, carry your offense and dominate inside the paint like he did during his prime years in Brooklyn. He, on most nights when Janus is healthy, there's nobody else who can also happen to be an effective shooter from deep behind the arc. There's nobody who can anchor your pick and roll defense as a drop coverage guy. and still be effective even when Yanis is off the floor, because he's what empowers Janus or Bobby Portis to play off ball and wreak havoc, particularly Janus. But Lopez, there's only one of him. He is a one of one in the NBA.

And again tonight, you know, I think the Bucs showed, they don't need Yonis to beat the Heat. And if I'm the Bucs, I don't play Yonis until the Heat win again. Because that might not happen. I mean, when you see seven guys go into double figures, and you got 25 from Lopez, 24 from Holiday, 16 from Middleton, 16 from Grayson Allen, 13 from Bobby Portis, 22 from Pat Connison off the bench, and 17 from Joe Ingalls. Oh, I mean, they shot the lights out.

So, I mean, like, that's part part of it. Like, are they going to shoot 51% of them three again? probably not, but I don't think... Probably not. But the thing is, though, is like the game wasn't even close in any way. I mean, I know it ends up 16 that feels close, but the Bucks dominated that game and every single facet in the paint behind the arc. It didn't matter if they shot 25% from 3.

They were still going to win that game and hold on. I mean, to your point, the game lands on 16. The heat outscored him by 17 and the 4.4. quarter. Yeah. So they're down 33. Well, and the heat also made a run at the beginning of the third quarter and cut it to I think 17 or 16.

And then the bucks turned it back on. They're like, oh, we better not fall asleep too early here. And they put it back over 30 in a matter of minutes. Like, they just dominated any, they could have won that game by 50 if they wanted to. Unbelievable. Unbelievable performance. All right. Let's backtrack a little, some of the others.

We talked, you know, in passing, I mentioned what is the response in game two? Pretty feeble response from the Hawks in game two against the Celtics. They're done. That's over. It didn't give you much hope that that can be anything more than five at max, right? Like, if you get the, it usually even in the gentleman sweep games, it's game three, the first home game for the team. They're all amped up. They're in their arena.

and the other team has got the cushion. And so if there's one that, and then they go ahead and then they win game five, or I'm sorry, game four, and then they go back home and close the thing out. That's typically the ebb and flow of a dominating series. You know, we don't get a ton of sweep. So if there's one game, but I think anything more than five games in that series, especially just after seeing when Derek White has 25 points

in game one and then you go and make your adjustments and Derek White comes back out and has 26 in game two like what exactly are you taking away from that team

and it just seemed like they're just ill-equipped you know they're ill-equipped to deal with them and obviously that Even the back court, I mean, those two guys, it's just, it's not enough. Like, they would have to just get mammoth efficient Trey Young nights, it feels like, in order for them to have a chance.

I mean, yeah, sure. Like, you can, you can say, you know, they need a mammoth, you know, night from Trey Young. Here's the problem, though, Chris. He goes nine of 22 in that game, too, against the Celtics. Here are his last eight playoff games. 9 of 22 last night. 5 of 18, 2 of 12, 3 of 11, 6 of 14, 10 of 22, 1 of 12, 4 of 17. Those are his last eight playoff games.

Trey Young has not been an efficient player in the postseason, aside from some of the highs, the big game he had against the Bucks, some of the games against the Knicks, the lowly Sixers who were near an implosion. with Ben Simmons. You know, the Hawks get to the Eastern Conference finals two years ago. That Knicks team was not good. The Sixers team was on the verge of blowing it up with Ben Simmons. He was imploding on the inside and he hasn't been anything since.

And then they get smoked by the bucks. Trey Young, going back to last year against Miami, this year against Boston, has not been an effective offensive presence for a guy who has a reputation of some mega star as a scorer. He is not that. And he has yet to prove that he can be a highly effective. score from the perimeter, even over the course of the entire regular season for that matter. So I think it's wishful thinking from the hot side of things, you know, to be expecting that,

unless it's one of his outlier performances. Maybe you get that. But even then the Celtics team has so many ways of just destroying that weak defense. Like Atlanta's defense made so many mistakes with rotations, back cuts, like the poor rotations. Like, they were terrible in game too for a team that you feel like. you know, like you said, Chris, Derek White's going off, and that's partially on trade too.

And the other thing is that front court just does not have to be honored. No, you're right. Yeah, well, Kongwu too. They don't have to be honored. Yeah, from the perimeter, you mean, like behind the arc. Anywhere outside of four feet from the basket. Yeah.

John Collins doesn't make shots anymore. No. And so it's like, geez, Louise. you know, you got to make yourself, we harking back to what we just watched tonight. Xavier Tillman, like you got to be. Carl, one of seven in that game too, by the way, from behind the art.

He hadn't made a shot in two years. Yeah, he has like, if you. He was a good three-point shooter. I'm telling you, it's that goofy finger. It is the finger, but I'm trying to pull up his numbers right now because he had like a stretch where he hit like 35% of his threes this year. All right. Okay, so he hit 40.3% of his threes from March 8th to April 7th.

4.2 attempts for a game, he hit 40.3% of his 3s. So for like a short while, it felt like the shot was, oh, my God, is it back? But now he's 1 for 8 in the playoffs against Boston, and it does not look good again. You can't shoot with a goofy finger. Yeah, that finger's all screwed up still. Yeah. Knicks Cabs. This is the series that we were going to be

most looking forward to in the Eastern Conference. In fact, the only one in the Eastern Conference that we thought would be a very good first round series. And another team that made a response with Cleveland making a response against the Knicks who have really struggled virtually any time Jay LaBrunsen's not on the court. And Jay LaBrunsen, even himself last night,

it's 5 for 17. Like, Brunton makes that thing go. And R.J. Barrett, like, his, so far in a very young career, his playoff track record has been just abysmal. Yeah. Offensively doing nothing. Yeah.

Just nothing. And, you know, really, really good stuff from the cabs. Obviously, they got Garland cooking last night. And he drops 32. and that front line, again, really good, adds up for 23 rebounds. And they, you know, O'Coro's only out there for two minutes. And Lavert was great. That worked out to be a blessing in disguise for them, Chris, not having O'Cora out there

because he was a zero in game one offensively. Right. And so is Levert just that guy? And look, there's been a lot of times where Levert's plays. with that group and it's been really, really good for them. I mean, it's just a, it's a spacing thing and there are those nights like last night where that guy can really get you bucket and a guy that it's a luxury to have a guy that you can have that's on your bench.

It can give you a 39 minutes in a playoff game for God's sakes. For sure. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And when you can create that space, we talked about that exact position all year for them. Who's going to be that guy? Because you have two super dynamic guards back there. And you have really good pigs. And so that moment where you've got to make the decision, it's like the guy

comes around the high screen, am I going to stay with him? Am I going to pinch in from the corner? Most of the time they do. Or are they going to make me pay for doing it? And all they need is somebody, there's tons of open shots that Garland and Mitchell can both create. Somebody's got to be able to knock him down. And obviously, Lavert was very well equipped, at least for one game. And I kind of think that, I got to think you're going to see a lot more of it as time goes on in these playoffs. I mean, Lavert is such an up and down offensive player. Yep.

But he's up more than Isaac O'Coro is. and sometimes you fall into things and for Bickerstap in that game, you know, O'Coro gets two quick files within three minutes and you pull him and you don't put him back. That says to me that Bickerstaff was already thinking and that coaching staff was thinking heading into the game, there's a chance we pull the plug on O'Coro here

and we just go with our other guys. Just somebody to create the spacing too, Kev, because that's why they dusted off Danny Green. It's like even if Danny Green doesn't give us, much. You still got to guard him. Well, that speaks to it, man. You dust off Danny Green after he doesn't play at all in game one rather than go back to Isaac Okoro.

Right. That's because you see how well your offense was playing, especially in that second quarter when they built their lead. Because sometimes it's not even how effective the individual player is. it's when you get into the playoffs and everybody's game planning against you, that guy that is not going to be honored destroys the spacing. For sure. And sometimes, even if the guy's not that effective,

just having him out there at the three point line and somebody having to guard him out at the three point line can make your offense go. And the thing is, it's like with Okoro, think about what they're spacing on the floor. With Okoro, they park him in the corner. Right. And in that second quarter, they had situations where Mowgli and Allen are inside the paint, which as they, you know, inside the ark, as they usually are.

You got Osman in the corner. But then you get Karis Levert setting screens for Garlands at the top of the key with guard-guard screens. New York's defense with Grimes and Brunson was all mixed up. And you get Levert, just either slip in that or pick and pop in that. that and draining threes from above the break. Okoro's not shooting from out there at all. So it just, it changes the placement of your players on the floor and improves that, especially for Garland, his space to operate and the type of creativity that they can use him in offensively.

Because those guard, guard screens were really, really tough for New York to stop in that game, too. And that's going to have to be the big adjustment for them entering games three now. How do you respond to something that we didn't see at all in game one? moving forward in the series when it seems like something that you're going to see Cleveland continue to do because why wouldn't they? I still think that's going to be

a fantastic all the way to the end series, but a very good response from Cleveland, for sure. It sure was, man. I hope it's a great series because both of those games were great like in terms of, you know, obviously Cleveland smokes some more in game too, so it's less entertaining

down to the end, but it was entertaining from like a response standpoint for sure. Suns Clippers, man, I got to tell you, Kev. We're about to find out if the anti-Darrel

Mori can win. Because we live in a world where basketball has become, in many cases, some people find it to be boring with it just being lay it up or tray it up. That's the deal.

Do you find that? Who Who do you, like, do you hear from in your life that they say the game's boring now? Like, do you have friends or like college friends? I mean, I know. I heard Haralabob. I heard Haralabob on with Bill Simmons yesterday say it. Yes. Bill Haralabob, like, but I'm saying like, but what I'm getting at is I have some friends in my life who are more, yeah, I'll watch on the playoffs.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of basketball fans. And they're like, yeah, there's just a lot of them say there's too many threes and too much flopping. are the two main complaints you hear from casual fans who are held back from wanting to watch basketball more often. I'm just curious about in your world, if that's similar. If they don't like flopping, they should flip on these playoffs. We got guys stomping each other in the heart. Flopping. I know, flopping. What are you talking about? We got a damn wrestling moves.

Yeah, I know. I mean, then he's just talking with the crowd afterwards, too. You need to call you call your friends and tell them to tune in. I know, yeah, come on. Well, here's the thing. Too bad they can't watch him on Thursday night. Oh, I suppose so. So lay it up or trade it up basketball has become commonplace, right? We can look at points in the paint.

We could look at the three-point line. And, you know, this was a big gripe of even Greg Popovich a couple of years ago. Look, I can look at the three-point percentage. I can tell you who won the game, you know, like in many cases. You could just show me one stat now because that's the way basketball is played. And I'll be damn. The sons, not only do they not drive to the basket and bury you with points in the pain, they don't shoot threes either.

But my God, the shots they make in the level of difficulty of those shots between Booker and Durant, you sit there and watch it. And there's part of me that goes, this is just not sustainable. Like, you're just, on these nights, it looks spectacular. But damn, man, you really got to make a shit ton of twos. And you're doing it, you know, in this spectacular fashion. I mean, when Booker gets on a heater or when Durant gets on a heater, it is something of just basketball, I mean, euphoria to watch them and the shot making. but it just goes against all the math that that is something sustainable over the course of a series.

And we're going to find out because even like last night, I had my guys over at shot quality send it over to me. And I mean, that score is not that score, right? The Clippers and the Sons based upon the shots that they took in the game. And again, that's the math. Here's what happens when you typically take these shots. Here's what happens when you typically take these shots. But those guys can, they feel like they're, you know, they're a glitch in the matrix because a two-point shot from Kevin Durant or, or Devin Booker, no matter what degree of

difficulty it is, feels in many cases to be a more high percentage shot than it ever should be. they're just, they're spectacular. It's a lot on them and it's a lot of twos. And they responded against the clippers. But I didn't walk away from that going, okay, they figured it out and this is going to be, you know, maybe the, you know, the shorter series that many predicted it to be.

I think that thing's going to end up being a war and be down to the end. It'll probably end up a longer series than I expected. that's for sure. I mean, we'll see going back to LA now at one to one, but I think Monty Williams, he's after, you know, throwing darts in game one, looking for the right guys to play off the bench. You know, he really tightens the rotation.

Jock Shokoggi gets 15 minutes off the bench, Bisbach-Bionbo, 15, Landry Sham at 14. You know, he basically plays an eight-man rotation the entire game. Well, more importantly than all of that is eight-and-stop playing like such a wassy. Yeah, he did. Yeah, I mean. Seriously. Like, I mean, that's,

anybody that wanted an offensive rebound could get an offensive rebound in game one. And it was like, he might as well have been me down there. Yeah, I mean, he definitely stepped up big time. And I thought like just related to Aiton, Monty Williams at one point, well, Ty Lou at one point during the game put Kauai Leonard on DeAndre Ait, understandably so. Like, Kauai is such a stellar defender. He can handle Aiton's size.

And that meant Zubots was defending Tori Craig. but to keep Zubots in pick and roll, they started using Tori Craig as the on-ball screener. And that created good opportunities for the Phoenix offense and the half court for Brooker, Durant, CP3, whoever it was. So I thought that was like a nice little minor adjustment there and also speaks to Tori Craig's versatility. He's been through two games. Like again, Monty Williams making the right call, you know, riding him in these games for heavy minutes. And he was shooting the hell out of the ball. We'll see if that sustains.

knock down three-point shooter for them, but also an effective screener. And he's going to be open. Yeah. You know, I mean? Like, there's so much attention that you've got to pay to the other ones. Likewise, those other clipper guys are like somebody's got to be the guys that step up because it appeared that by the time they got to that fourth quarter, they're like, all right, dude, we're not doing this.

Kauai gets to play anybody one-on-one. This is not going to be the Clippers mode of operation. Because there's, I mean, he can torch anybody. Yeah, turn him into a passer. Yeah. Get the ball out of his hands. Just run a second guy. And if Terrence man and if whoever else on this team wants to bomb us out, then so be it.

But we're not letting this guy play one-on-one basketball. And so they started running two at him. And you just want that, you know, his field goal attempts got lower because now he's got to make the right basketball play. And so that extra attention, that's. That's where the George thing really shows up. It's like, okay, who's going to be that other guy when, when, if they're going to dedicate to Leonard, especially when it matters most, then who's going to be that guy that makes them pay for doing that?

And I don't think that, you know, you have to, you have to command respect, you know, it's much like we're talking about in that series that I'm covering. If you're going to run two at Anthony Davis, Rui Hachamura might just, just, make every damn three he takes. Sure. Somebody's got to do that for the clippers or else they're just going to run two at Kauai and make sure he doesn't get to beat him. Well, and that's where, you know, it's like we were talking about with Cleveland

a game two. You've got Leverd screening for Garland, those guard guard screens, and how tough that was for the Knicks to handle. And game two of Suns Clippers, you're running, you know, wing guard screens. It's like Eric Gordon screening for Kawhi Leonard a lot of the time. and they're throwing two at Kauai, like you said, the clippers did not handle that well at all. They didn't produce well out of those actions one bit.

So that's where their adjustment is going to happen. And Phoenix is going to have to be ready there for those guards to release out quicker and get easier opportunities rather than just settling for, you know, what felt like a switch a lot of the time, getting gourd in the ball. Yeah. And obviously, Durant and Booker especially, just like I said, the shot making. Those guys are stupid those. I just think it's hard to do that over and over and over again.

I know, I know. But at the same time, all three of them got hot in that game. But it's the type of thing where one of them is probably going to get hot, sometimes two, sometimes all three. Those guys are special talents. There are three of the best mid-range shooters in all the basketball.

Oh, my goodness. I mean, again, you can have the, I mean, they elevate with a hand of their fate and still bury it on you. while they're fading. And they've got these spots that they get to on the court. That being said, you know,

the Clippers, I do think have some stuff that they will, they've got a really good coach, so they'll adjust. And I do think that that ends up being a long series, much, much, much better job on Zubat in game two, much better.

because he was rather dominant in the game before. I mean, in game one, he was 12 points, 15 rebounds in that game. And they did a much better job on him. The guy ends up with eight points at six rebounds in game two, four of which were offensive rebounds. So, I mean, he wasn't. Now, in fairness, there wasn't a ton of rebounds, especially in the second half,

because the sons were shooting frigging fireballs. I mean, that was, they are. They're special when they get going. But anyway, that one is, I think that's actually a fun series, for sure. Not much fun is the 76ers and the Nets. Again, Nets have the opportunity to adjust and then there's nothing he can do. So we did our last pod after King's Warriors. And the light the beamers had gone up.

2-0. Yep. And now we have seen that Draymond Green is suspended for game three. What do you think? Is that the right decision by the NBA? I never like guys getting suspended for playoff games. I thought the penalty was already handed out, a flagrant two thrown out of the game. Yeah.

I just, I don't like guys getting suspended. I think, I think, what did we talk about, like, a couple weeks ago? We talked about the technical and flagrant, you know, rules that they have in the playoffs, where the guy gets suspended after a certain amount of those. What is the point of having those when you're just going to do it here? It seems like a reputation penalty more than anything else. And I get, you know, I actually, I was talking to one of my buddies today. and I was like,

they didn't suspend Yokic, did they? And he was like, yeah, they did. And I was like, oh, they did. Remember when he trucked the Morris twin? That was during the regular season, though, right? Wasn't that during the playoffs? I believe that was during the playoffs. He trucked the guy.

And he ended up getting, he ended up getting suspended. That was November, that was November 2021. Oh, forgive me. So, yeah, that was during the season. Okay. Well, I mean, I just think the penalty was the flagrant to him being thrown out of that individual game. And I'm honestly surprised that I'm on the side of a lot of media here.

Like a lot of media has been saying, like, here's Stephen A today on first take saying that the NBA made a mistake here. A lot of people are saying the NBA made a mistake. Oh, I understand why they did it. And look, he had. I get it too. I get it too. Because he stepped on the guy. He lifted his foot and stomped on him.

The thing is, it is hard to tell how intentional it really was. Oh, come on. No, no, it's not. No, it's not. The revision is history on this is bananas. And my favorite is the, they, he grabbed his leg guys. He grabbed his leg, right? To me, it's the equivalent of, if somebody grabs your arm,

but I, what I'm saying, Chris, I think he did it intentionally. I think he did it intentionally. Let me make that clear. But I'm just saying, is it definitive enough and like an egregious enough of acts to put another penalty on top of the flagrant two that you already handed out when you couldn't send you a massive fine? And by the way, forget about the Warriors here, forget about Draymond, forget about the Kings. I feel like the fans are who get screwed the most here with what should be the best first round series, one of the most epic and interesting. entertaining and thrilling first round series, going back to Golden State,

I think you're limiting goal and state chances so much that the fans more than anything else are the ones you get screwed here. You and me are listeners, fans of any other team. Never mind Warriors and Kings fans. You want to see them equipped. I don't know. You just want to see these teams at a high level. I don't know, man.

It's like you already got sons, Clippers and Warriors Kings playing on TV at the same freaking time. I'm going to be honest, Kev, I was shocked at the Dumars quote. Well, Joe Dumars, who worked for the Kings the last three years from 2019 through 2022. Okay. And you get Ramona Shelburne saying that they didn't talk to Draymond until after the decision was made.

That's strange. Isn't it? So you could bring up that Joe Dumars worked for the Kings, which is more important. He was also literally a mentor for. wait for it, Draymond Green. When was this? Their sons played AAU together.

They're close, close. Close close. Yeah, their kids played AAU together and Dumars was a mentor for Draymond green. You can find the stories about it. It's not like it's a guy in an office in a suit handing down the punishment to somebody he doesn't know. That's why it became so shocking because he said it's because of all the other baloney that he's pulled before. That if it were someone different, it might have been treated differently. That's how that reads.

I'm Googling this now. I'm just, I'm not finding the stories about how close their relationship is over the years. I mean, I can't help you find the stories by Googling it. But that is fact. Joe Dumar's kid and Draymond Green were on the same. AAU team together. And Joe Dumars was a form of mentor for Draymond Green

coming up. They know each other. Yeah, I'm just, I'm looking for the story. I'm not finding like this, this puff piece from 2017 about Joe Dumars and Draymond. I'm not seeing it.

I mean, I heard, who wasn't that just told this story the other day? Okay, I got, I got one from 20s. Mark's Fierce told this whole story on Zach Lowe's last podcast. I got one from 2012.

From 2012, MLive.com, the Detroit Pistons unequivocally have Draymond Green on their radar, even if the former Michigan State basketball star likely will fall. And then Draylon Green, here's a quote. This proves everything you just said correct.

Draymond says, me and Joe D talk about everything. We talk about life in general. That's like a father to me. It's always more than just the process. It's about everything. It's about life. It's never just about basketball.

We can start out talking about basketball and then end up on something completely different because we're far beyond a basketball relationship. That's not where our relationship came from. It didn't come from basketball, so it'll never be just about basketball. All right. Case close.

You found it on Google. I did. I found it. I had to make that up. I had heard it. I don't know. I'm not saying you made it up. I'm just saying.

Which is more important. Joe Dumar's work for the Kings or that he was a friggin' father figure for the guy he just suspended. Come on. It doesn't make the decision correct, though. I mean, look, there's people that hate their dance. Oh, God. No, it's crazy, though. It's crazy.

And him saying that it's because of things he had done in the past. The other thing is, standing up on a chair and yelling, yeah, P-word to a crowd, getting caught on national TV. That was funny. I found it funny. Of course. The antics are, it is, it's real restless stuff. I mean, there's a guy in the crowd throwing double birds at Draymond. Yeah.

Did you see that? That's not exactly. It's not exactly showing any level of contrition. I know. While a guy is like on the ground holding his sternum. Yeah, but those, yeah. Well, those fans were... Oh, and everything that's followed is just so...

Those fans got the thrill of a lifetime. They're going to remember. Remember when we went to game, too? Oh, yeah. And we're going at it with Draymond. They got a show. That's fun. That's for sure.

Adam Silver sitting across in the arena. Mortified. Balling his eyes out, crying, shivering. He's got to be mortified. His glass is fogging up from all the tears. You do wonder if he wouldn't have acted that way after, if he would have, like, showed some contrition for it or checked on Subonis

rather than turning into full professional wrestler mode. I think I really do. You know what I mean? It would have been viewed differently. I really do think it would have been. It's like, yeah, I stomped his ass, and I don't care. You know what I mean?

I'll stomp you too. How about them putting a bonus on the injury report and that can't drop like 30 minutes after the suspension got it out? The Sabona's injury report, Draymond saying he wants to get his ankle checked, and then the warriors putting out there that they're mad at the NBA officials because they think Sabonis, quote,

uses the basketball as a weapon. What was that? What? Slinging his elbows right. I can't fathom. I honestly, and trust me, I covered a series last year where their righteous indignation was at 10 out of 10. I can't fathom how you're a franchise that employs Traymond Green,

who literally beat the shit out of his own teammate and runs hot and does crazy stuff, how you can, like, constantly with a straight face, talk about the antics of others. It's just outrageous. Like, you know, they're a guy, like, I'm not saying that what Sabonis did, of course, he should have been penalized for grabbing on to a guy's leg. But as I said,

if I grab onto your arm, you can't just wind up and punch me in the face. That's not the response. And you've got to just really, truly lie to yourself to see it any other way if you want to lie to yourself, where are you on his foot to land?

Oh, he was slinging clay down. Like all the stuff that you've just got to lie to yourself. Bro, your player stomped the guy. End of story. He stomped him. He's mad. He runs hot. That's why he's the player that he is

because he runs hot. Sometimes the guys that run hot do crazy-ass stuff. What's your, I mean, So if this is the end of the Warriors dynasty, I mean, it feels like a fitting way. If it's the end, it feels like a fitting way for things to end with Draymond on, you know, double-edged sword all throughout his tenure with Golden State. If he leaves the soft season and this is part of the end of his story in some ways it's fitting. But I still expect him to win without him.

Okay. That's what I'm saying. So I was about to ask you for your prediction because this could also set up Thursday night, Warriors down, 2-0 for the first time. in the Steph, Clay, Draymond era. Going back to their home and you got Draymond out, this is either the end of, the beginning of the end of a dynasty of the series,

or it's setting up for a moment by Steph and Clay. I think you'll see those, yes. And look, there are guys that haven't given them nothing. The guys that haven't given them nothing, the Kamingas of the world and the pools of the world and the moodys of the world, like all those guys, they were a great home team this year.

A great home team. They were also a pitiful road team. And if Andrew Wiggins hits an open three in the corner, they win game one. These games were close. Fair is fair. Fair is fair.

So I would, I still expect them to win their home games. I think that's just going to be a super long series. Would not be surprised if we see seven in. I know that every time anybody wins, we start talking sweep and they're going to get mangled and I'll believe it when I see it. I'll believe it when I see it.

They're a tough team to beat at their place. Yeah, can't you just see Steph putting on the show of shows? I can. Yeah, me too. I can. I can. Yeah. And so it'll be interesting to see.

If it is the end of the dynasty. Oh, my God. I look forward to seeing how Steve Curry utilizes Stefan Curry in that game because, you know, game two, he ran 40 pick and rolls. And that's an abnormal number for Stefan Curry. He's usually, he averages, I believe, 27 on the season. And he ran only 40 plus five times all year according to second spectrum. He ran 40 in game two, 28 in game one. And the Warriors are scoring 1.2 points per step pick and roll.

That's a great number. That would have led the NBA. Like Luca, Steph, all these other guys are at 1.1. Will they lean on Steph even more in the pick and roll this year, this game three, more and more for potentially isolations if the Kings switch those screens. If the Kings are blitzing, you know, like we saw with Kawhi Leonard in that Sun series, you know, they're trying to get the ball out of his hands. Can Looney or Kaminga or whoever the screener is make plays off the dribble with a man-advantage?

That's going to be the key in the series because you're going to see them, you know, lean on Steph. I think more than they have in the first two games, which is a lot. But even more than that, they're going to have to have. This is setting up for Steph to have a moment in game play. Well, and as you say, so many, and this is why Wiseman couldn't function there, because your typical Golden State play over the years has been, Curry brings it up. We bring two or shade two at him.

He throws it to Draymond, who's at the free throw line. are at the top of the key, and now Draymond's playing three on two from there. And it's usually a kickout pass, right? That, if that happens, like you're saying, look, to me, it's not that hard what the Warriors have to do. And we talked about it after that last game. And I said, this is why, when everybody keeps saying that, wow, this King's defense, were they just not good, you know, how are they doing this?

It's like, well, one of the major reasons their defense was crap this year was because they have no rim protection. Golden State has got to put pressure on the rim. End of story. If they do, they can expose why Sacramento was in the bottom 10 in the league defensively. They were in the bottom five and points in the paint they gave up. Golden State has not exposed that at all. I don't think that Draymond being out will hurt that cause offensively, you know, because a lot of that is he's not driving to the basket a lot.

And so you've got to find some guys that are going to put pressure on the rim. End of story. And make them, you know, subonis is what they've got back there. They don't have rim protection. But if you play a game that doesn't require them just. protect the rim, then, and I bet you're going to see a lot more of them going to the basket, a lot more points in the paint by the time we get to game three. That's a fix that they will make.

I can't fathom them going out like this with, I mean, I think they've had like 40 points of the paint last game or something. That's crazy against the Kings. You can't play them like that. You got to punish them. In the series, when DeMontas Sabonis is defending a pick and roll, the Warriors are scoring 1.29 points per chance. I just said a couple minutes ago, Steph is scoring 1.2 points per pick and roll, 1.29 against Sabonis. Wow.

But they just don't just don't do it a lot. And they may have to now? They might have to now, but that goes against what Steve Kerr has always done. like we've talked about this here and there throughout the years like well Steve Kerr you know would they get wise men or they're going to run more picking roll with wise men you kind of understand now why they didn't he's just not that good and he wasn't a fit with their style of play with quick decision making yeah playmaking off that role but with sabotis just to give that number some context they're going at subonis 26 times per game

through the two games you know al horford is getting attacked 36 times per game Zubots 35.5 and Bede 32.5. So I think, you know, get that number over 30, push for 40, you know, just go at Subonis and exploit their weakest defender and do everything you can, even if it's outside of your norm. They did go outside of their norm in game two. 40's a lot for Steph. So I would expect more of that in game three and beyond. As we are recording this, because we're recording this late on the night of, the Grizzlies and Lakers game Wednesday night,

Timberwolves and Nuggets was going on while we're speaking. So we might as well mention that it looks like now with three minutes to go, the Nuggets are up by double digits. The Timberwolves did make a game of it by coming out and having a monster third quarter and putting 40 up on the Nuggets. But it looks like they're going to go home down 02. the one great thing about that particular game, just looking at the box score,

is first amazing Anthony Edwards game in a long time. He's going to put up a big number. Now, unfortunately, the guy on the other side of him has put up so far in that game, an even bigger number in Jamal Murray. First huge Jamal Murray game in a while, too, right? Jamal Murray, like we didn't see a lot of the second half as we've been recording here,

but, you know, first half, Jamal Murray, he was just on fire against that, Minnesota drop coverage. Like with both towns and with Gobert, just playing drop. And Murray exploited that. And from the pieces that we have seen in the second half, Michael Porter, Jr. really helped build back that lead in the fourth quarter for Denver. I'm going back to this season.

This is the highest total for Murray the entire year. He had a 34-point game against the Lakers. I'm sorry. He had a 41 against Atlanta. So this will be the second highest scoring with whatever number he ends up with. He had 41 against Atlanta earlier this year. But this is a big, big Murray game for sure.

And, you know, at least they got Edwards on track. And maybe just maybe they can have some competitive games in Minnesota. Yeah. I look forward to watching this game back. You know, you see Minnesota, then to see any of the third quarter, which is when they made their big run 40 to 23 in that quarter. I look forward to watching that back to see how exactly it happened.

Because, yeah. Also, just looking at this box, Anthony Edwards, three blocks and two steals. Yeah. Have a game, aunt. Yeah. Gobert, 19 points, a plus six, seven of 11 from the floor three assists. Nobody cares. I'm just, all I'm saying, Chris, is as we currently look at the score here,

he's the only Minnesota Timberwolf in the pluses. Is that right? He's throwing that out there. Yes, he is. Well, I tell you this. LeBron James was minus 17 tonight. Sure. Oh, and also, by the way, from the first half, Jeff Green, just.

The ageless wonder. Oh, he is something. Unbelievable. I can't wait to be talking about these games as it goes on. And you will be at game three of the Lakers Grizzles. the next time we record will be Monday night after. You know who else will be there? Game four.

Who? You know who else? Bill since. Jesse Lopez. Oh, really? Jesse Lopez. Our executive producer Jesse Lopez is going to the game. Yes, he is.

Jesse Lopez. Oh, wow. We sit side by side. I'll have my father drawn Misty Laker's shirt on. Oh, you guys are going, you're going as a Laker fans together. I'm not going as a Lakers fan. I bring Jesse, who will be, I'm sure, equipped in Lakers' care but I got my- Oh, but you're not going on a media pass.

No, I'm going as a fan. As a Laker fan. No, I'm going as a- You got your purple and gold laid out. Oh, you need them to beat the Grizzlies like that game three. Father John Misty, they get some great, great gear. And they have this shirt that looks like the Lakers logo. Perfect.

Oh, yeah, I'm going to have that on. So it's father. I've had, I've like, been at stores wearing that. And people have been like staring at my, shirt and they said that doesn't say Lakers does it? It's like, oh, it's this father John Misty. Who's that? She's just this really good indie band.

It's a way for me to be a sneaky Laker fan without having to say I'm a sneaky Laker fan. No. Unbelievable. Kevin, it is always a pleasure. Thanks to everybody for checking up to show. You see the picture? You see it? I just sent to them in Zoom chat. You see that? It's not sure.

Oh, I see it. It's a lake. Your shirt. It's a Father John Misty shirt. Yeah. You know Father John Misty at all? Chris? You ever listen to them? I do.

You do? You listen to Father John Misty? They do our intro, and so of course I went and downloaded it all. I know. I'm just making sure. Yes. Dan and John drums and piano from Father John Misty. They've done our intro.

They did. It's beautiful. And they make beautiful music with Josh Tillman. They do great stuff. And then you're going to get to it. Why don't you, why don't you just get the Austin Rees jersey that you want? You don't have to wear that shirt. Or your Rui Hachamura.

I love that shirt. That's probably more popular right now. They can't keep those on the rack. The thing is, I think I said this Tuesday on that episode, but I'm not sure if it fits me. I get it. What, your Rui Hachamura jersey? No, no, the father John Missy shirt because of the way they gained. I'm not sure I've lost enough yet to

Oh, sure you have. Come on. No, I'm not sure that I have yet. I got to find out. You're a couple of Peloton classes away. Maybe I'll have to. Just do it. Go get on that bike right now.

Off to fast all the way until Saturday or something like that. Well, I hope that you and Jesse have a horrible time Saturday night. I can't wait. We'll be doing the show next week. Thanks to everybody for checking us out a day earlier this week. And thank you to our producer Jesse Lopez always. Kevin, I'll talk to you next week. I'm looking forward to work, Chris.

Have a good week.