The Mismatch - Harden’s Big "Meh" Debut, What the In-Season Tournament Is Missing, and Sophomore Check-ins

Episode Date: November 7, 2023

Verno and KOC discuss the Monday slate of NBA games, including James Harden’s debut with the Clippers, before discussing how they felt about the new in-season tournament that began last week (01:38). Will the tournament grow on fans? The guys discuss the latest injury news around the league, headlined by Robert Williams III, who will miss the rest of the season (25:20). KOC discusses his article detailing the rise of Shaedon Sharpe, Jeremy Sochan’s development, and more (33:08). Also, with college basketball starting up, the guys discuss which players to watch for this season (50:42). You can read KOC’s article here. Got a question for Verno and KOC? Send them an email at [e-mail]! Or you can send the guys a tweet @ChrisVernonShow and @KevinOConnorNBA! The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please checkout theringer.com/RG to find out more, or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What would you do if you got scammed? Would you suffer in silence, or would you do something about it? Well, I got scammed once, and this is the story of what I did. I'm Justin Sales, the host of the Wedding Scammer, a true crime podcast from The Ringer. And for seven episodes, we're hunting a comment. A guy with a lot of aliases, a guy who's ruined a lot of weddings. And with the help of some friends, I just might be able to catch him. Listen to The Wedding Scammer on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome to the mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon and joining me as he does every Monday night from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, aka Kevin O'Bomber, Kevin O'Connor, Kevin O'Brien, Kevin O'Brien, Kevin O'Brien, Kevin O'Brien. Congratulations, my friend, your first victory. I told you that the Grizzlies would win a game. Oh, yeah, you said at least two. They play 82. They play 82.

You're getting one. Want to know with Bismag Bianbo as the starter. Aldama's back. One and O'O. With the Kevin O'Connor mocked Santi Aldama. Oh, please. You know, I like Santhi Aldama. It's a Monday night.

It's just not the savior. There's no games on Tuesday night. So there were 12 tonight. A lot of games. We are recording as there are still some that are going on. lot has already taken place earlier in the evening, not the least of which, I must address right off the bat. I said to you, when we recorded last week, that 150 points is extreme, Kevin, and watching

the Celtics trash the Pacers like that and get 150 that early in the season was crazy, and you just shouldn't have the amount of time that it takes to score that much. And yet, here we are where one team did score over 150, the aforementioned Indiana Pacers, no less. And another team could have easily gotten to 150 if they would have kept the pedal down. And that is the 76ers, who had a... 146, right, they finished with? Sixers ended up with 146, yeah, so two short or four short.

The wizards are terrible, man. Terrible. And Embeddeed had almost a 30-point quarter in this gang. Like unheard of. He's 10 for 10. 28 in the third quarter, right? Oh, my God. 10 for 10 from the field.

And poor Mike Muscala, who looks like he is a time traveler from 1992. and some basketball card that I got. It's just, I mean, he's out there having a guard. It's like, this is wild. The lizards in their losses this season, they've given up 143, 126, 130, 121, 146. And don't worry, Chris, we'll ignore the game that they won.

Please do. Please do. But you had the Pacers put up 150. 52 against the spurs. Yeah. Shot over 50% from three. Yeah. And then you had that 76ers team that scored 146.

You also had some very good games. It's a very good performances that are worth mentioning. One that stands out in particular is what turned out to be a very good Heat Lakers game, the Heat were able to hang on after the Lakers just miss every open shot, LeBron generated down the stretch. Reeves missed two wide open ones. And then, of course, the game winner with Reddish in the corner, he misses another one. A.D. not out on the floor.

He was banged up in the middle of this game with groin spasms, they said. So it's certainly something to monitor. Sorry, I'm immature. Yeah, I know. Groin spasms, huh? You know, the heat had these games every once in a while where it's like, Their guys could really show up. You had bail out of bio.

He had a 20-20 game and 10 assists to go along with it, no less. He hit a three. I mean, that is a crazy stat line to go, to get 20-20 and 10. And then, so that game went on. The Nets played the bucks all the way down to the wire. Cam Thomas going nuts again. I mean, this is now four games that he's at 30-plus. already this season

and just, I mean, he is an absolute bucket Cam Thomas. He got blocked at the rim. He got blocked at the rim. He's a classic, isn't he? Like 90s, 90s, early 2000s type of score, the type of buckets he hits. It's a joy to watch, honestly.

Man, and they're down by three. They come out of the timeout. They go for a quick two. And I don't know, like, of all the shots that Cam Thomas hit tonight, I don't know about driving to the rim and getting packed by, Janice at the very end of that game.

Obviously, Lillard goes the other way, knocks down some prethrows. But, you know, they were a game team. And Camp Thomas had some big time, big time scoring performances already this season. And then the one that was center stage that everybody wanted to see how it was going to look was the Clippers Dudd against the New York Knicks.

It was going to be James Hardin's debut. they were going to be playing at Madison Square Garden. And look, I think everybody has a differing opinion on how well this is going to work, what level of success it can have, putting all those guys together as a group and playing them. And they were all in the starting lineup by night number one. And I think, if anything, what we see is this is going to take some time. Like this is not going to be some kind of seamless transition. We've gotten a little bit spoiled because we've seen somebody like the Celtics add two new starters.

And it's been a very seamless transition. This just adding hardened into that mix and kind of figuring out how this is going to work with the four of them, who have got a ton of all-star appearances between them. It's going to be a real work in progress. And I got to be honest with you. My first impression was, man, I read this article the other day saying the clippers had two of the best net ratings lineups in the entire NBA. And, you know, you got to have, there's stars and role players. There's guys that just play the roles and keep the ball moving and, you know, don't have to have a lot of shots.

And then there's, or I mean, the role players that do that. there's the stars and those are the guys that are going to be taking the shots. And virtually every time throughout NBA history we have seen successful teams, we can call out like, okay, those are guys are obviously the stars, there's two or three of the stars, and then there's the role players. And the guys that kind of fit in with it. And, man, that's a tough go because you don't really have, you got one role player in that starting lineup.

And you're asking guys that have always been stars to, assimilate into roles. And I think it's going to be a very, very hard task for Tyloo. And just when you see it out there on the court, and it's like, man, who is the guy that doesn't need the ball? Like, you can't turn Paul, Paul George can't turn him into a role player. He can't turn Kauai into a role player. And so it's like, how is this going to work?

I do think what you're eventually going to see is, and probably Westbrook, but Westbrook or Harden, one of them is going to have to go to the bench. and run that bench unit. Because that's what happened tonight, Chris. Zubot is the only one. Hardin did run the bench unit. That's exactly what happened in tonight's game. And the bench unit, they staggered their lineups.

Hardin dominated the ball with the bench unit in the first half. I'm talking about starting and closing these gangs, right? When it comes down to it, keeping those four guys off the court, who's the guy that's not the guy? I think it's going to be. I mean, I think, I think you're right that it's going to probably be Russell Westbrook that ends up taking a backseat. And Les James Harden completely adapts to playing off ball, which tonight, I didn't feel like he did. I mean, in the first half, Russ was the primary ball handler and you had Hardin kind of just, you know, hanging out by the three point line in the corners or by the wing.

But he didn't, you know, do much with that opportunity. He didn't cut to the rim. Even in the second half, he had a kickout pass that might even from Paul George. George, if I remember correctly, where he's wide open when hard and received the ball. And instead of taking the three off the catch, he pumped faked, let the defender go by him, did a side dribble into a three that he clanked off the rim. It's just like, why are you not taking these spot-up threes? Why are you turning a wide open shot that you practice every single day into a lower efficient look?

It's strange how he does that. In the second half, I'm sure Clippers fans were annoyed by the Dante DiVincenzo offensive board, when he flew over the entire defense, past James Hardin, who didn't think to box him out, relocated behind the three-point line, and Hardin didn't rotate back over. He left DiVincenzo wide open for three. Mike Green and the Knicks call said, bang, rightfully so,

because it was a great play by DeVenzo, but it was an equally bad play by James Hardin. And then those are the things that, you know, Hardin, if you're not being the guy who's averaging 25, 30 points per game and dominating the ball and making such a significant indifference with everything on offense. You need to make up for it in other ways, whether it's the plays where you don't have the ball spotting up or whether it's all those defensive possessions. And I felt like first impressions for the big four here were a big meh, a big meh at this point so far.

But it's only game one. It's going to take time. Yeah, it's going to take time for these guys to figure it out. Hard and running the bench unit makes sense to me. it does make sense, but at the same time, like the first impressions, it just felt like a lot of your turn,

my turn, your turn, my turn, guys just going back and forth and not a lot of cohesiveness, which is exactly what it was like for the Knicks. I mean, they were dominant defense,

number two in the NBA in defensive rating so far this year. They looked like the quicker, stronger, tougher team. The team that, you know, quote unquote, cliche wanted it more. Like,

that's what the Knicks looked like and offensively, they were a team that looked like they were really clicking well. not so much for the clippers. Yeah, well, and they finally, you know, much better Randall game than the beginning of his season, which has been a disaster.

It's best game, really, so far. Yeah, it's been a disaster so far for him. And even then, he was only 9 of 21. It's not an efficient night, but still probably his best overall game. Yeah. And they, you know, it's, they know who they are. I mean, they know, they know the guys that are playing. They know the guys they're playing with.

They've got a lot of long minutes together now. And the clubbers have not. no log minutes until tonight. And so it's just going to take a little while. I'm not sure how it's going to end up looking, but at least the first impression, it does, it's like,

man, could you ever imagine them having a five pass possession? I don't know. I don't know if we'll ever see that. They don't know. They have to. But just the idea of that ball like popping around to pass up good shot for great shot.

that we see a lot of the really good teams do. Not sure how often we're going to see that with that crew as currently constructed because they've all been stars. They've all been stars. And they're all obviously capable of still having those big, big nights, probably Russ less than the others. But Russ could still, if you told him, if you said, hey, Russ, go get me 40 tonight.

He could probably go get you 40. It might take a million shots. but he probably can still do it. Yeah, kind of clunky. So that was the, that was first night out for that Clippers team. Since we last spoke, you are and have been a huge proponent of the in-season tournament. We saw it with the, with those new courts, which gathered a lot of conversation. Some thought the new courts were cool.

Some thought the new courts were very distracting. Some had no idea what the hell was going on and why the courts looked that way. But at least for that first night, the basketball games, I do think they got very lucky in that the competition level and the slate of games turned out to be extremely good. I don't necessarily think that's because it was for something or because it was the end season tournament. But I do think that you go out on the court, and even if you're a player psychologically, it does feel different just because you can't help but notice this isn't your average night when the court looks so crazy. And it's going to think a little getting used to on that, but I do think that if conversation was what they were looking for, they certainly got it. I felt it as a fan that the games had elevated meaning or a different type of meaning,

whether it was because the courts differentiating it from the normal games, or like you said, we got fortunate with a lot of close games. Like there's an overtime game to end the night for your Grizzlies and the Blazers, the thriller with the Warriors and the Thunder with the call at the end that was a controversy. Oh, yeah, that's when you really knew it mattered more. Is when they gave the Warriors that win. Felt just like the playoffs.

But I felt like all these games were intense, maybe because they were close. And Friday, there could be some blowouts and we'll feel differently. But that's no different than the playoffs. I just, like for me, from my perspective as a fan, I was having like more fun than I usually do, having multiple screens open, keeping tabs on multiple games.

And it makes me, more excited for this Friday night with some of the matchups that are coming. It makes me more, like, more excited for next Tuesday and Friday. And I hope, I hope game by game it keeps building as we get closer to that fourth and fifth group play game where the teams are actually feeling the pressure to play in for one of the spots and the quarterfinals and then a spot in Vegas. I would hope it keeps building week by week, but first impressions are great. I loved it. I loved it. I was listening to Sunday's Ringer NBA show, group chat. Chris Ryan was a special guest with Rob Mahoney and Justin Barry or Waz was out.

He's normally on that show. And Chris Ryan is like a huge soccer fan. He's followed soccer, you know, as long as I've known him, probably far longer than that. And Chris has watched these competitions overseas with, you know, soccer clubs playing in this cup and that cup and how teams sometimes stringed together different championships and different cups. Some teams are known for success in certain cups, but not in others and all that. And it builds over the course of time. And they were just talking about how like this is an opportunity for some of these young teams to carve out of something or for Denver, a team that just won the NBA finals to then win this. It's like, oh, okay, they're continuing their dominance. And then they do it through the regular season. It's just like it's another marker of success in games that are on a, that are elevated. And I'm happy the NBA is doing it. Granted, I wish the NBA went further.

I wish they carved out like a two-week chunk of the schedule and said, these are all tournament games. We're focusing entirely on the tournament. Everybody's in. I wish they did that rather than going from tournament games to normal regular season games and all that. But that one step at a time, I suppose. And maybe if this continues to be a success, they'll build towards something like that. But first impression is very, very strong.

Do you feel the same way, Chris? because I've always been, you know, pro in-season tournament, pro-playing. And you've been more like, well, I mean, open to it. Yeah, I just want to see it. Look, I have never been against it simply because there's no reason to be against it. People are not, their attention is not towards when it's November 6th, November 7th, November 10th. Like, that's not when people's attention is turned towards the NBA yet. That really doesn't happen.

Like in many cases, the casual fan is going to be. really start paying attention when it gets to around Christmas time. And that Christmas Day is such a huge center stage day, even though they kind of lost that now because the NFL's having Christmas Day games. I do think that it is something that, as I've said, I think that you, for the fans, I am of the opinion that they need to add something for the fans. Something for me as a fan to care that my team wins that or is successful in that. Beyond just the team is going out to Vegas, the team has a chance at this mid-season cup,

which frankly means nothing. But what do you get for winning the finals? That's what I'm saying. That's what I want. I want something like the players get, what, 500 grand apiece? Yeah, but what do you get for winning the finals besides winning the finals? it's the championship. Yeah, and I know it is, but like, this is the in-season tournament championship.

Yeah, and who cares about that? Why should I care if they win the in-season? Because you care over the course of time. Like, like we've talked about before. I've got to win four playoff series to win the finals. I know. Yes, that means more, but I'm... What?

Are you trying to compare this to the NBA finals? No, I'm saying, but that doesn't mean that this means nothing. Okay, just tell me why it means. It's the meaning that you put on it. It's the single elimination tournament. It's a marker of this stage of the season for who is the most successful team. And like, yeah, I give them a guaranteed playing spot or give them a 31st pick in the draft. Sure.

But like I'm happy that the league is starting out with nothing for the reward from the team side and just simply sticking to the financial reward for players because then you can change it from here. If you do feel like there's timid interest, if ratings aren't elevated for those games in Vegas, if seats aren't filled for those games in Vegas or whatever metric you want to use to assess the situation, then yeah, sure, you can add on top of it. But I think for year one, I'm perfectly fine with keeping it as is, making it strictly about basketball, and seeing what the response is. That's my feeling on it.

And then if it turns out that people are like, who cares, then add something. I think if my team won it, I'd go, cool, my team won it. Like, that would be the end of that. Yeah, but like, I'm glad those guys got 500 grand. But if those games in Vegas are highly competitive, where starters are playing 40 plus minutes, there's an eight-man rotation, and you're seeing these teams resemble what they would look like in the postseason. normally I would say games in October, November, December, January, even February for that matter, sometimes have zilch meaning when it comes to assessing the playoffs.

But what I'm saying, I know what I'm, I know you're not, but I'm just saying don't those games, if those teams are doing that, doesn't that offer something in terms of if the teams are putting their best out there, if they're game planning heavily for that, for that semi-final game, for that finals game, and they're doing that shortened rotation, I think that gives it inherently more meaning and from our perspective on the outside assessing those teams it does have some more increased value

for assessing what that team might do come April, May June. I would laugh my ass off if guys rested. I don't think they're gonna. It'd be the most NBA thing ever. I don't think they're going to say, ah, it's too many games in two. I'll play the

first one, but I can't play the second one. That would be horrible. It would be the worst thing if that happens. I don't think it's going to happen, but it would be the worst thing if that. Also, it would be really dumb. If players and teams were to do that, it's really short-sighted because this is, the in-season tournament is something that the NBA will want to sell as a package to Amazon, Apple, or one of the networks, like, hey, you get our, here's what we're going to evolve this.

You do three weeks in-season tournament, all on NBC, right? Like that type of thing. Oh, I would love to see a single elimination. like that includes a bunch of teams. Yes. I agree. And I think that's what the NBA will build towards. That'd be great.

When the NBA expands to 32 teams in 26 or 27 with Vegas and Seattle, I think you'll see single elimination involving all 32 teams at that point. And that would be dope. So I think I, like, that's why I'm not overreacting to some of the things right now in terms of, hey, I wish they did this or I wish they did that. I wish they went all in with this. I think from the political standpoint within the league office and how they have operate with all 30 teams.

Yes, you could say Adam Silver needs to be a tougher owner and demand everything that he desires with this tournament. But I'm not so sure how realistic that is and part of it is they do have to take these baby steps towards making it a full-fledged 32-team tournament or whatever shape it takes. And I hope that's what it eventually moves towards.

And I think it will. Did you like the courts? I do like the courts. I think they differentiate it from the normal courts, It's like they get on my other monitors right now. It's like, you know, it's a basic typical court. That made it feel like something different. It was cool.

It looks better in the arena than it did just seeing the court itself, like the images of it that were posted online. We were goofing about guys sitting out, but we have already had some pretty tough injury news that has taken place. Wait a minute. Did you like the courts? Yeah, they're fine. Some of them.

Some of them I liked. Some of them I thought were too. busy. I feel that way with the normal courts, too. Some courts I like, some I don't like, but ultimately, I don't care. I don't care about the court. I just care about the products on the court, the game being played. The court is, the court almost just becomes background noise to me. I thought on some of the games just distracting. I don't want to be distracted by the court. I didn't feel that way, but I can see how it was. I can see how it could have been. That's what I say. Some of them I thought were good. Some of them were just too busy for me.

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Restrictions apply. See full terms at Fandul.com slash sportsbook. NBA league pass local blackout restrictions apply. So regarding that injury news I was talking about, we got McCallum with the collapse long. That's no good. And hopefully that's not something that's going to keep him out for a very, very long time.

But, you know, if it keeps him out the same amount of time they did the first time when he had a similar injury, you know, you're probably talking about like Thanksgiving before that happens. Um, interestingly enough, while we were recording this, the Pelicans are playing against the Denver Nuggets. And the Denver Nuggets got really bad news on Jamal Murray. Um, you know, even Michael Malone said, this is not like a one or two game thing with his hamstring. This is going to be, he used the term perceivable future for the perceivable future. And so, you know, that's, that is a massive, massive loss for

possibly a good length of time for Jamal Murray. He had had this hamstring tightness, you know, in the preseason, coming into the season, and now he's having to set down with it. And we've been through this before. In our eight years doing this podcast, how many times have we heard about either, you know, hamstrings or groins? And we talk about it all the time. Anytime you hear it, you perk up and you get a little scared,

quads as well, like any of the muscle injuries. And it's like, geez, these guys are never. back sooner than what they say. It is always longer, always. And it's like, oh, every year we get to the playoffs and it's like they hope they have the guy back for the playoffs and they can't come back. So who knows how long Murray will be out with this. But that's a team that's not necessarily going to be desperate to rack up every regular

season when they can. And so I imagine they'll be very, very cautious with this. But that's a big time player out for a long time. They should be patient and they should take this opportunity to develop some of those young guys. Like tonight, Reggie Jackson, a veteran starts the game, but they have Julian Strother getting increased minutes. Their rookie late first round draft pick, Colin Gillespie, a four-year player out of college, undrafted player out of Villanova. He's getting minutes off the bench for them. Maybe at some point you see Jalen Pickett, our guy.

We love Jalen Pickett, get an opportunity. So for Denver, yeah, it sucks Jamal Murray's out. and hopefully he can come back and be 100% and pick right up where he left off. But the silver lining could be that some of these younger guys get an opportunity to develop. And in the same way, Christian Brown just ran with the opportunity last year

once his minutes increased following the Bones Highland trade. Maybe some of these guys, particularly Strother, gets an opportunity to carve out a serious, consistent rotation role with Jamal Murray being out. The other one is Anthony Davis, who I mentioned at the beginning of this podcast. It's just something to keep an eye on what happened in Miami with the groin. And, you know, he's been playing a lot of minutes, playing a lot of minutes to start this season.

And again, we don't know prognosis on him. Hopefully, it was just precautionary with him not coming back in tonight in that game. And then the worst news by far, injury news that we've had over the course of the last 24 hours was Robert Williams, who is playing for the Blazers. I just watched him play in two different games against Memphis. He is a name that I mentioned as a possible trade target before the Beambo signing took place, but still somebody that was out there as a,

you know, playing backup center in Portland and maybe acquired. And he heard himself, he went out of the game, he went down the tunnel last night, you know, anytime Robert Williams goes in the tunnel, I think there's always that feeling of, oh, no, And sure enough today, they say that he's going to get surgery. He's basically going to miss the season. And, you know, you just worry.

My first reaction, if I'm being honest, was I went through this, obviously, back in the day with Chandler Parsons. And my first reaction was, man, when your knees are shot, they are shot. And it's just hard. It's hard to make it through. and the kid battled and battled, you know, to play as many games as he possibly could. Maybe he regrets that. Maybe he doesn't. You know, but he had a chance to win an NBA championship.

And you remember he came back for the Celtics? I saw Isaiah Thomas mocking that. You know, that tweet was going around everywhere about how, yeah, they told me that, too, saying the Celtics said, it's not going to do any further damage to him or whatever. And who knows? But the kids had need problems for a lot. long time and he's had her knee trouble pretty much his entire basketball life and like the Celtics over the years this is not me defending them as just stating the facts they used to limit his minutes a lot

like he like as a guy who felt like he should be playing 30 plus minutes per game he'd be playing under 20 and that's because they were limiting him with his potential injury risk it's unfortunate considering how talented he is and you know hopefully he can come back again because it seems like no matter how many injuries that he has, he doesn't lose any bounce. I know. He doesn't lose athleticism, it seems. So hopefully he's able to work his way back.

It's just tough to get cut on again, you know? I know, dude. I know. And, you know, still a young guy. 26. Yeah. Still young players. Just turned 26 in October.

He's really young. I just think it's good, you know, that was my immediate reaction. Like, as soon as he went down, I was like, oh, my goodness. I'm like, here we go. and it just some some guys their health betrays him you know and he has certainly been one of those that's been through a lot and with bigs it's always scary with bigs that's right um so that was that was that was a bad word for sure all one of the thing chris on the injury side with mccallum jordan hawkins there was some question about who's the guy who's going to step up without mccalum

jordan hawkins their rookie is the guy tonight that stepped up with a bigger role mid-game 26 points, 21 points, 5 of 10 from 3. I believe we might have mentioned him in passing last week, if I remember correctly. He can shoot it. Yeah, he can shoot it. He's had some up and down games, but the highs have been very impressive. So, again, like, similar to what I was saying with Denver with the young guys, McCallum out, maybe Jordan Hawkins can develop some amazing chemistry with Zion

and Ingram and those guys and carve out a role for them. The other thing I liked about him, I watched him one game where he missed everything. And that kid just kept on shooting. Like they've empowered him. They have empowered him, you know, to be able to just keep on pulling, which is a good on Willie Green. And I do think that that can serve a real purpose with young players because I'd much rather have that. And maybe the green light is abused sometimes. But I'd much rather have that than the guy that is timid to make a play.

Oh, yeah. You know, when you're trying to fit in and it's like swing, swing. the ball gets to you and you're not like this kid will pull it now and he if he's one for eight he's one for eight he's one for ten he's one for ten but he'll he'll pull it and he's you know he is a huge part of that just devastating yukon team that was so good that yukon team was so damn good and hawkins is a real part of that and so it'd be interesting to see if he can get a little bump here obviously you want to see him get some production when he's given this opportunity and So far, so good.

Not the easiest way to go either, right? When you're getting that opportunity, you get some nuggets. So when I was talking about Robert Williams, I said that I watched Portland twice over the course of the last couple of days because Memphis played two games there. And in the first one,

Shaden Sharp made some big plays down the stretch. He had a great game, dude. You highlighted that. And you also highlighted Sharp. in a bunch of these second year guys that you had been keeping an eye on and have kind of gone one way or another. So you wrote about Shaden Sharp and Pollo and Matherin and Jalen Duren and Keegan Murray and Mark Williams and Jeremy Sohan. Which of the blurbs stood out to you the most or were you most ready to write about? let's talk about first

Shaden Sharp and then Jeremy Sohan I think those two are the most interesting because with Sharp you saw him those two games that that game on Friday the three-pointer that he blocked at the end of regulation where he kind of lost track

of Luke Kinnard and then recovered like I don't know how he blocked that shot overtime I felt like the overtime showed the growth of his game compared to the most of last season he was under control on the pick and roll. He went at Jaron Jackson Jr. He had the pull up three. He made some nice passes throughout the night out of pick and roll. He looked like a more seasoned version of himself.

Sometimes I think with Sharp, he kind of, you know, gets a little invisible at times. Like you kind of forget he's out there. But when he's, when the ball's in his hands and he's empowered, I'm really liking the progress that he's shown this season overall. It looks like somebody that's going to be taking a leap. Another one of those guys that we just like, we never got to see him in college because of that weird Kentucky situation. And so he was all brand new to us as a rookie and just had some crazy highlight as a rookie. Like you can see this this guy is a special athlete. And when you team up being a special athlete with the level of skill that he has and you think about the age that he is right now,

you could certainly foresee a circumstance where he develops into a really special. player and you just think about what a guy like that can look like in, you know, four years from now. And he's got a very, very high ceiling, very high ceiling. Hopefully they build out around him. Hopefully they've got, you know, good structures around him. Hopefully him and Scoot can get some chemistry and it works well together. I do think they were served well, obviously, with Scoot being out for those two games against Memphis and Brogden being in there. just kind of calming influence, run the show.

You know, it's always going to be a little bit of a mess, right? Anytime you got a rookie point guard. But, yeah, I'm a sharp fan as well. And also, big, big Cajonis, makes a big place when it mattered. Your guy, Anthony Edwards, just hit two huge shots against the Celtics and overtime just now. Two massive Cajonas shots, two pull-up jumpers, intense, pounding his chest. after the makes that like those are after they both i've got this on in the background minnesota and uh and the celtics both missed uh game winning shots yep yeah

before this game we had both had a possession to go into overtime yeah edward just pulled up twice gave him a big lead and so now uh wow it'll be the Celtics first loss wow so those are the timbrel's taken down the undefeated this season because the Celtics and the nuggets. I mean, in Minnesota, number one defensive rating in the entire NBA with Rudy Gobert looking like his prime self again after a down year last year. Rudy, Rudy Gobert has been absolutely sensational. Well, and their perimeter defense, man, those two, those two could swallow you between Edwards and McDaniels. Oh, my God. And it just hit a crazy-ass turnaround. Yeah, the turnaround from the paint, right?

Seven straight. Or wait, no, is that eight? I guess it's eight straight, right, that he's had the end of this. McDaniels, he missed the start of the year, and even in the games he's played, he's had some foul trouble getting back. But I posted a stat on X earlier today from NBA.com's tracking data. Opponents are shooting only 33.3% from two-point range when they're defended by Jada McDaniels. That's it. I'm sorry for laughing.

You know, this is, he did this in TV USA, too. Oh, he just missed the goal by 20 feet on a pull up three. Right when you were saying that.

I'm like, come on, dude. Come on. Come on. Just a tremendous air ball. Crazy. After the clutch moments.

When he gets cooking, when he gets cooking, he gets cooking, though. It's so funny. Yeah, but Ben, but McDaniel's,

you know, on the perimeter, next to Edwards and they have some other good perimeter guys too. Alexander Walker, Solay, like Conley competes even though he's a smaller guard, as you know, with him. Kyle Anderson competes. And then you got Gobert playing some of the best defense that he ever has with some of the best perimeter defenders he ever has. And you get to give cat credit, Kat's hustling out there, doing what he can. I still think, I still think the wolves

to maximize who they can become and become a championship team is going to require a cat trade. I don't know, man. I like them. They are, even you see this closing lineup against the Celtics. Celtics make a lot of teams look small.

And their massive. Minnesota team is huge. Minnesota is huge, especially when they got Anderson out there. They got like Mike Conley and then everybody else is big. Oh, man. On the team. McDaniels himself.

Oh, my God. He's good, dude. Yeah. I think I'm a little hint of you on the. the feed, but he just had a huge pull-up. Spoiler alert. Here's another guy that you wanted to talk about, who was another guy that we thought could be a defensive standout for sure.

Instead, he's kind of mired in the slump to start the season, and they tried him at point guard, and a guy that we really liked, Jamry Sohound, tough go at the beginning and not necessarily the role that we think he's, going to be, I, I don't know why they're playing him at point guard. It just doesn't make it. Yes. Did you read it?

What do you? So what do you think about what I put in there? You said, you said that you don't know why that he's playing point guard for the spurs. You think that there's a reason is that they're not ready to. So it's like a developmental thing. Yes, it's a developmental thing. What I wrote in the article was, was this right here. Popovich, the Popovich quote, first of all, he called Sohan starting at point guard

their quote, official, 23, 24 experiment. Okay, that's what Popovich himself said. And I have somewhere in there saying how, like, in the same way that you're developing Wembeyanama by letting him take isolation shots and Devin Vassell, you know, taking some crazy pull-up threes and all that, you're letting those guys be scorers. you need to let Jeremy Sohan develop some guard skills, considering that they view him as a, not necessarily a Draymond clone, but a Draymond-esque player as a big ball handler, one of the guys in your offense is helping facilitate for your team.

Because for the Spurs, it's not about winning games in 23, 24. It's about winning games in 2026, 27, 28. So by developing Sohan now, you're investing in your, your future later when it comes time to win championships. You get to find out what you really have in him. If he's a keeper moving forward and for his own sake with his own development, you get to let him work through this and develop these skills when the stakes are low, which they are right now.

So yes, Tray Jones is a better point guard today. But the Spurs doing this with Sohan isn't about today. It's about the future. And I just don't think his destiny is handling the ball a lot anyway. I disagree completely. I think it's maybe the word a lot that's like handling the ball a lot might be not the case. Maybe he's a role player. Yes, but he's not going to be a high usage basketball.

But he's one of the guys who will handle the ball. Maybe he doesn't handle the ball a lot, but he could be one of the guys who's handling the ball in important situations for your team. So this is getting him to work through that and improve. That's where I kind of fall when it comes to his usage. Why can't you serve two masters? Why can't you play the best basketball that your team can play, but also develop guys? You don't think that that's possible? No, because I think you know what you have in Trey Jones.

He's a solid backup point guard, and he's going to get touches, which he does. But Jeremy Sohan getting minutes out there with Wendy and Vassell and Kelden Johnson and those guys and developing him is important. Unless it gets to a point that it feels like it's detrimental to them, which thus, far I don't think is necessarily the case. I mean, we're recording on a night they just got beat by 50. Yeah, they did just get beat by 50. I mean,

what the hell you want? The Pacers just beat it by 50 frigging points. It's not detrimental. But that's not necessarily the fault of the offense. It's the fault of their defense to give it 152 points. I mean, I just think with Sohan, he's a

unique player. I don't know who that's good for. But this is why I liked him out of college, out of Baylor. At Baylor, he showed off good playmaking instincts of the ability to be a mismatch nightmare for opponents. With him, it's about developing a shot and developing some of his decision making. And if you can get that out of him by investing in him now, to me, it's worth it. Even if he's a worst point guard than Trey Jones, we know he's a worst point guard than Trey Jones. And also for the Spurs, it's not the worst thing the world to be a little bit worse and drop some games if it's in the

in the meaning of developing for your future if you get up you know missing the 10 seed playing and you get the 12 or 13 because you had sohan get heavy minutes of guard all season long i view that as an overall win uh in the grand scheme of things for the spurs i mean all right i look time will tell we just look at it so much differently i just who are we to look at greg pha but i don't i don't what he's developed a piece of crap. He's doing nothing. That's not true.

What game? What game is Jeremy? The game against the sons. The game against the sons. What the eight point seven rebound game? No, no, the game where he had nine assists and like no turnovers,

one turnover, whatever it was that he had. The game against the sons that they won, the Wemby coming out party when it was last Thursday, the night where we weren't able to record. That was the game. That game was.

when Sohan was at his best and showed the potential when he was out there facilitating, playing with pace, creating quality shots for his teammates, playing good man-to-man defense on the perimeter. That's the long-term vision with him as a player. And that's why the Spurs are investing in him right now. So yes, I get it. When you're tuning in the Spurs games, you're like, who is this dude, this Dennis Rodman impressionist handling the ball running their offense?

And then you see Trey Jones, who's like cool, calm and collected, just running a tight ship. Like, why straight Jones? They're getting the ball? Because the Spurs aren't worried about getting a win on a Tuesday night in in 2023. They're worried mostly right now about investing in a team that they feel can contend for championships in 26, 27, 28, and so on and so forth down the line.

Because if Sohan does work out, if he develops, if you can pair Victor Wenbanyama with a 6-9 versatile defender who's a mother effer out there as a rebounder as a tough guy and he's a selfish selfless passer on the court, that's a good fit next to Victor Wenban yama. It's worth the investment. I like what the spurs are doing even if it's leading to some

more losses in the short term. I think it helps in the long term. All right. Well, this is where we break ways. I develop into what he's going to be is an NBA player. I think I think there's there is some logic that sometimes throwing him out

into the pool, putting more on his plate. then he will someday leave. This is summer league stuff. This is what you do with Summer League. You go out there and let the guys go do that. And then the, you know. Yeah, but Summer League doesn't mean shit. Why not be the best?

You are, you are not being the team that you could be. You are sacrifice. You are developing one player. They're not, though. They're still developing LEMB. They're still developing. But you could be developing. all those guys in a better way by somebody that can deliver the ball and play real basketball.

Yeah, but like, yeah, but your future, I don't think it's going to be with Trey Jones either. Trey Jones is a six foot one, a 180 pound career backup point guard who's a game manager that comes off your bench. Say that. If you're getting his net rating, go looking so hot. I don't care. If you're giving 30 minutes to chair. I don't care. I'm telling you.

I don't care. Okay. If you're giving 30 minutes. about the results, but they're way better with Tray Jones. That's doing exactly what you said. You just said, well, why would you play the guys that aren't going to be doing things in your future? I don't think

Tray Jones is going to be part of your future. Trey Jones is a guy to have off your bench that helps run things and manage things and smooth them out. But Trey Jones might not necessarily be that guy in the long term. He's a solid backup point guard that at some point some team might try to pluck away that's

in need of a guard. But like Jeremy Sohan is the guy that you feel has a chance to be a fixture in your future. So yes, you are investing in the guys that you feel can be part of that. They'll ditch it. And then you'll agree with that too. I don't think so. Yes, you will.

Yes, you will. I don't know if they will. I'm not sure they will. It was actually smart for them to ditch it. Like, you'll agree with whatever they do with him. No, I don't think so, not necessarily, unless he completely stinks it up and it's horrible. And then it because, I just said to you earlier, if it becomes detrimental to the development

of the other guys, then yes, you ditch you. it, but I don't think it's detrimental so far. I think the flashes... They lost my 50. Yeah, but they lost my 50. That's not the fault of the guy who's running point. He's not detrimental. What are we talking about here?

What are we talking about? Trey Jones, one for five in the game of minus 21. Oh, Trey Jones, detrimental. It's not that. It's not all that. It's not all because of Sohan. Let's be serious. Let's be real.

I'm just stupid because it just so happens to say something's not detrimental on a night where they lost by 50. I know, it is funny. It's a tough night to make this argument, but I'm doing it anyway. And by the way, quick change of topics. Denver Nuggets up 10 middle of the fourth quarter. Julian Strother, just circling back to the point we were talking about earlier, 21 points off the bench for the rookie Julian Strother, their late first round draft pick. boy, oh boy, did Calvin Booth nail the draft, didn't he?

Another casual dub for Calvin Booth. Boy, he's good. He is good. I'm serious. I'm dead ass. Like, the dude's for H.E.M. He's really good at drafting. Oh, bad.

Yeah, Strother. He's a bucket getter, man. I love Strother. As he said, it's a lot of shots and a lot of opportunity that's going to be available in the absence of Jamal Murray. and also a lot of down the stretch, you know, game on the line stuff. Because, I mean, boy, if they, you know it's all running through Yokic, but you get a war with them and you know you're about to,

you're about to just see this pick and roll come right at you over and over again. And you've got to make choices. And other guys are going to have opportunities at the end of games. And that could actually serve them, serve them very well as time goes on. with getting these guys a lot of reps because it is not Michael Malone's typical mode of operation to play young guys a lot. Brown was kind of the exception last year, Christian Brown. But some of these younger guys, whether it's Peyton Watson, whether it's Strother, whether it's, you know, guys we've talked about might get that opportunity now as the, as a

rotation needs a couple extra guys to get in the mix. I meant to ask you, college basketball all started tonight. Now, I know all of our attention was certainly on the NBA, considering there's 12 games going on. But I was looking at, who was it? Uh, Gavoni put out his, like, list of like 25 prospects or whatever. And I think there was like four college guys or something like that, like in the top 10. Like there's all these like, there's a G League ignite guys and international guys. And I saw a couple of highlights from, uh, DJ which makes me feel oldest crap considering I covered his father, Dwan, in college, when he played at the University of Memphis and now D.J. Wagner's playing for Caliperia

at Kentucky. Anyways, he was a little further down that list, DJ Wagner, who is obviously an outstanding high school player. You know, I've seen some of the names. Isaiah Collier at USC and some of the others. I think there's some kids at Yukon. it seemed like there was like guards and bigs kind of amongst most of the like very, very early rankings or mocks that I've looked at. Is there anybody that you think, you know, college basketball wise that I should for sure go out of my way to check out early this season?

Because there's a lot of actually good non-conference games that are scheduled early in the year. I think one of the early games, I think it's late November, early December, UCon versus. versus Kansas on the Yukon side. You got Donovan Klingan, who could have been a first round pick last year. And then Stefan Castle, their freshman point guard. Those two guys together, both could be top 10 picks. They were both top 10 on my board that launched back in August. I'd have some updates since then.

And then on the Kansas side, this guy, El Marco Jackson, freshman point guard. They're kind of a big guard. intriguing player worth keeping an eye on and plus they have a bunch of returning plays like players like mcculler who i really like kind of a two-way wing so i think i think kansas yukon is the early season matchup but that might not be yeah that's not till december first so not quite an early season game but kansas does face kentucky on november 14th kentucky you just mentioned with wagner um they have edwards another potential top 10 pick so that's probably the first game like between you know, some potential top 10 teams, Kentucky, Kansas on November 14th to keep an eye on

that comes to mind on my end. But you're right, Chris, like, you know, there's not a lot of call of prospects that could be number one picks. Like, I think one guy that I really, really like who makes his debut on Tuesday, Jacoby Walter out of Baylor. The question is, how much is he actually going to play? They have some returning guards and wings in that rotation as well, so he's going to be competing for minutes. Duke has like three different point guards that are all competing with each other for minutes. Proctor being the guy that kind of has the advantage in that situation as a sophomore. But Jared McCain, very talented player as well. Foster, another player as well, three guards in that back court. Philopowski returning as well for them in his second year. He's solid.

He's solid. I don't, I'm not like head over heels. People thought he was going to go out in the draft last year. Yeah, I'm not, I'm not like head over heels in love with Philopowski, but he's a solid player and his development this year, like, will be far, far, far more telling and figuring out where he's going to end up becoming as an NBA player. But it's an interesting year. And like in my neck of the woods here in L.A., I mean, I know everybody's focused on USC with, you know, all eyes on Brony who may or may

not play and Isaiah Collier, their freshman point guard. But at UCLA, they have a number of international prospects as well to keep an eye on, too, with UCLA, especially Adai Mara, their big seven-foot center. He's a very, very interesting player. And Bona returning as well, their sophomore center. I was at UCLA practice about a week or so ago and talked with their head coach as a part of Media Scrum. Cronin? Yeah, Cronin was there. He's good.

He's good at the media. Oh, he's great. He's really good with the media. gave some great answers. But, yeah, UCLA and USC, college basketball right here in LA, pretty good. A lot of guys. Yeah, you got to go over to USC's going to be like the,

they're going to be the draw, right? If Brony plays for sure. I hope. People love that, Isaiah Collier guy. Yeah, he's really good. I hope Bronny returns maybe December, January, something like that. Is that what they're saying?

I hope so, something like that. All right. Well, there are no NBA games tomorrow. which is Tuesday when most people are going to be listed. A lot of college basketball games, though. There are a lot of college basketball games, so flip around. I'll try to find some prospects over the course of the next couple of weeks. Watch Baylor.

Watch Baylor Auburn. Just, I want to see Jacoby Walter. That's the guy I got my eyes on in that game. Baylor is facing Auburn. That's an ESPN game, too. It's a national game. Oh, okay. Yeah, look, every time I look at the college schedule,

Like a lot of these teams, they play these very good non-conference matchups at the beginning of the year. And in some cases, like the best competition that they will play. I mean, it happens very early in the year. But then you go back and look and it's like, how many times did they face, you know, highly ranked teams? And a lot of times, especially if their conference isn't delivering that particular year, it was those non-conference games that might tell you the most about how they look against teams that they'll end up having to face in the NCAA tournament. But it was kind of crazy

to look at that top 10 and be like, damn, man. They ain't in college no more. They are spaced out. I think three of the top 10 were on that G-League Ignite team. Yeah, yeah. I'm going to get to see them twice this year because they're coming to,

they'll come play against the Memphis hustle. So I'll go watch them. Yeah, I have Almanza, Holland and Buzellas in my top 10. I assume Gavoni had the same probably that Almanza like it said like he was like MVP of the under 17 under 18 under the guy has been under 15 under 17 under 18 like he's just been this international tournament monster oh once is really good really good yeah like some really really really high achievements yeah i see gavoni has Ron Holland number one right now so that's the number one I probably have him one at the moment as well. Ron Holland.

Yeah, I think so. I moved him ahead of Bozellis. Bezellis had not a great week against the Perth Wildcats. I like Bozellus still don't get me wrong, but... But you like that kid from Perth? Alexar, yep. Yeah, Alexar.

Alexar, really, really good. Lord knows, you love to fall in love with the French. I sure do love the French, man. You know it. It's all paying out. By the way, speaking of the French, Killian Hayes tonight. One of his best games of his entire career.

You saw it? Yeah. You saw? 21 points. I saw those track marks Curry left on him too. 21 points, 8 of 12, 7 assists, no turnovers. Yeah. It looked like the best player on the Pistons.

It was really weird. I actually watched the fourth quarter of that game. I had it on. And, like, Kay Cutting game just didn't even have the ball. It was so strange. I know. I'm like, this game is like coming down. I'm like, this game is coming down.

Like, I figure, I don't know. Like, they're, they're kind of a mess. It's kind of too equal opportunity for me. And I know he was out for injury or illness, whatever, but the burial of Ivy is just friggin' crazy. And like, I just, I don't know. It's just a poll, just a poll from that Nuggets article. Calvin Booth talking about overlap.

when he talked about his goals with the nuggets is to avoid overlap. Think about that construct when it comes to Detroit. They are the epitome of overlap with all the ball handers that they've invested in.

Cade Cunningham, Killian Hayes, Ivy, Thompson for that matter, like over and over investing it. Marcus Sasser, they traded up for Marcus Sasser. And they're playing it. Yeah,

like you got all these guys that are best with the ball in their hands. Like, it's weird. It's a weird situation there. And never mind all the bigs that they have, too. It's like they have a ton of guards and a ton of bigs, but not a lot of anything in between. I think they get a lot to figure out.

They do. They have to make some trades. And I think reshuffle the deck here. And I guarantee you there's another team out there that's like, oh, I'd love to get Ivy or, hey, let's take a shot at Killian. Or, oh, can we get this guy? You know, like, I just, I think they have to make a move. balance out this roster, not the spurs.

The spurs are the team that has balance. The pistons are the team that needs to worry about development right now and figuring out how to shuffle minutes and touches here. Last thing before we get out of here, how mad were you that you couldn't goof on me anymore? And that the Grizzlies finally broke their six-game losing streak. I don't know. I mean, there's still a lot of time to goof on you.

There's 25 games without job. there's 18 more games without Jabberant and then there's going to be the reintegration period once he comes back. You didn't see they found. They found something. They found something. Diombo.

Oh, no, look, here's the thing, in all seriousness. Beambo does put Jaron Jackson Jr. in the place that he's supposed to be. Biombo is the placeholder at the five. I know they were playing Portland. You know what their defensive rating was with Jackson and a Biobo on the floor together?

probably like 62. 68. Wow. You can't score. Wow. Where are you going to go? Want to know with Beyondbo? Where are you going to go?

But here's why I'm not worried about not having the ability to goof on you, though, Chris. You want to know why? Because it play the heat on Wednesday night. Heat, Utah. Yeah, sure, those are both winnable. But then Clippers, Lakers, Wemby and the Spurs, Celtics, the red hot Houston Rockets, Suns, Timberwolves.

There's some tough games coming out through Thanksgiving. You never know who's going to play, though. That's the crazy thing. Every time I look at the schedule, it's like, I don't know who's going to play and who's not going to play on these teams. You end up facing them, and it's like, okay, is Anthony Davis going to be out for a while? You know, you got a game against Denver now, and it's like, okay, is Jamal Murray going to be out or against the Pelicans? It's like, Ingram had been out.

Now McCollum's going to be out. It's like, geez, you just don't know. It's Phoenix. How many times have we seen the big three, as it were? Oh, P.S. If there's one thing on our first episode that we got to take back, I'm taking back my Dallas analyses and my soft prediction, semi-boldt.

They're fine. And you got to take back the Nerkich thing. He stinks. And what's he shooting around the room, like 40%. He's like 40%. That was a one-man. Night wonder. One night wonder. He's like 40% at the basket right now.

I told you. I told you all these years he stinks. LeBron just driving right past him. Yeah, I don't know what happened to you. You must have been on some of them Aaron Rogers drugs one night when you started thinking this guy was good. No, I stand by this point, though, that Aiton wasn't the guy for the sales. Trust me. I just got done watching. again for two games. He's so lame. He's so lame. Well, that's why, but Chris, that was my argument. It wasn't that Nirkich is some no, he's still better than Nirkich. I know he, yeah, but my argument wasn't that he's not

better than Nerkich is that is better for the sons. I know. You just can't on principle. You can't like, I, I can't sit there and go. And they never get beat up over this. It's always the Kings that get beat up. But, it's like, it's like, you. bro, that's the guy you took over Luca Donchich. You just traded Luca Donchitz for Yusuf Nurkich package. Come on, bro. It really is crazy that that's how it resulted, isn't it?

Isn't that something else? The guy you took over Luca, you ended up trading him for like washed up Yusuf Nurkich. A package that includes Yusuf Nerkich is amazing. And to see her little. Isn't that something else? Like when you really think about it through that context, through that lens, man. What could have been, dude?

I mean, granted, they went to a finals and there are this team that has finals aspirations. But boy, you'd rather be building right now with Devin Booker and Luca and have that core moving forward and growing together. Because Luca is ball dominant as he's become in Dallas. I wonder what Luca would have looked like developing alongside Booker. Maybe they would have clashed and maybe there'd be friction. Who knows? But I think those two guys are competitors enough and high IQ. few players that they would have made it work. But alas, they have Kevin Durant, and they have

Devin Booker, and they have Bradleyville possibly coming back Wednesday or Friday, and we'll see how it all looks when they got their whole supporting cast together for a team that has title hopes, despite some of the mistakes, including Jalen Smith over Tyler East Aller. And it's just another one. So it's like, like they've made some critical draft mistakes, and yet they're in this position. Just like the Warriors, they drafted James Wiseman with number two pick. He's, he can't even grab rebounds against Moses Moody in tonight's game. He's getting out rebounded by Moses Moody. The Warriors make one critical mistake, but yet like Caming is seemingly working out, Moody's working out. You can get over mistakes in the draft. It's just, boy, it makes things

easier if you're like the nuggets and you get Christian Brown and now Julian Strother and maybe we'll see with these other guys. It's much better to have success in the draft than it is to not, no doubt. There's no way around that. It is always always. It's a pleasure. We will reconvene on Thursday night after we've got a lot more NBA action that's taken place. Thank you to our executive producer Jesse Lopez as always. And Kevin, I'll talk to you on Thursday. I'm looking forward to it.

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