The Mismatch - Hawks Take Game 4 and Giannis Gets Hurt. Plus: Chauncey Billups Controversy and Combine Talk

Episode Date: June 30, 2021

Verno and KOC react to the Hawks' Game 4 win and Giannis' injury (0:43), the Clippers impressive Game 5 win over the Suns (13:45), and the controversy surrounding Portland's hiring of Chauncey Billups (40:30). Then they discuss some of the standouts from the NBA Draft Combine (1:00:35). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O'Connor Producer: Carlos Chiriboga Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The postseason is here and the Ringer NBA show has you covered with real ones, group chat, the answer, and Ringer NBA post game. Check out the Ringer NBA show on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to The Mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon. And joining me as he does every Tuesday from the Ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, aka Kevin O'Bomber, Kevin O'Bomber, Kevin O'Bomberma, Kevin O'Bomboverna, Kevin O'Bomber, Kevin O'Bomboll, Kevin O'Brienness, Kevin O'Clyle.

I wish we had a better game to react to. Yeah, we are reacting to game four of the Atlanta Milwaukee series, which as it is counting down now, we are beginning recording on Tuesday night. And it's going to end up being a 20 plus margin in this game. And as I have the television on here, Clint Capella got hit in the face against the garbage time bucks. And it's like, really? Like, why not just go ahead and put the icing on top of all of this and catch another injury in this? Because this is crazy.

He got hit in the face. Hopefully he's going to be fine. The story of this game is obviously the loss of Janice Anta Tocompo for the Milwaukee Bucks. And we're left with wait and see. Yeah, wait and see. The Bucks announced tonight that it was a hyper extended left knee. His knee bent backwards after going up for a lob dunk, unfortunately landed awkwardly. just an unfortunate situation there. And hopefully for Janus,

it's just a hyper extension and nothing else. I'm sure we'll find out more Wednesday or Thursday. But this sucks, man. You know, Trey gets hurt accidentally like stepping on the raft. You know, he's out tonight. Clint Capella doesn't finish the game. Yannis has a potentially major injury. It just stinks, dude. There's been too many major injuries. It's unfortunate. And unfortunately, Kev, it is the story of this. postseason and really to this year for that matter they're trying to get in the season they tried to get in as many games they possibly could i heard rsillo saying he he and i may get this it's gonna it might

be a little off but it if it is it's close something to the effect of that the clippers had just played their 17th game in 32 days or something like that and when i heard it i was like oh my god and that's after right that's just since the season you're talking about 17 games possibly in 32 days. And I, just off the top of my head, okay, without looking anything up, I tried to start writing down names, just that I could remember. This is what I got. Trey Young, Kyrie Irving, James Hardin, Kauai Leonard,

Sergei Baca, Anthony Davis, Danny Green, Dante Divenzo, Dianzre Hunter, Jalen Brown and those are and I'm sure I'm going to miss some but I mean I just named you know like many of the best players that we have in the league and that's not to mention guys that weren't even involved anyway like the Jamal Marys Clay Thompson Miles Turner Oladipo like there was all kinds of guys like that that weren't involved but and now as we get further what you are hoping and that's not even to mention Devin Booker with a broken those and Chris Paul with a bum shoulder throughout this thing. It's like this really is going to be survivor.

Just who has the most guys that can suit up and play well together. I mean, it's a type of thing where, you know, we don't know what Janus's status or trace status will be the two best players in both for both teams in the Eastern Conference finals. It's like so it's it's impossible. Like, we can't talk about what will have happened the rest of the series. Because we don't know what the deal is going to be for Trayette. No idea. We just don't know. And it's just unfortunate that we're at this point.

And as you said, it's Survivor. And it's the teams that are the healthiest at the end of it after this long season with some unfortunate injuries, some injuries perhaps due to fatigue and, you know, the condensed schedule. But some of them were just unfortunate, like the honest one tonight. It's just an awkward landing. It sucks that that happened, man. And it puts a lot of pressure on your depth when you lose these guys. And let's just say this.

because I got to be honest, when we were watching game three, I thought Atlanta really had a lot of momentum in that game. They were sticking around after they were getting popped in Milwaukee. They're sticking around. I thought they were playing really well until the tray thing happened. And then it all flipped on them. And then, of course, Middleton just buried them in the fourth quarter. In this game, I was wildly impressed with,

how they looked without Trey Young. Oh, yeah. In the fold. Lou Williams, you know, how many times we talked about this?

We talked about this with campaign, you know, just a week ago, what is the drop-off? And of course, when everything kind of revolves around Trey, there's going to be a drop-off,

but can these guys get it done as a collective? And Lou Williams, who's longtime veteran, who's had some bad playoff runs, he comes in, mega-efficient, seven-for-nine from the, field, knocks down some threes, gets your eight assists, keeps the ball popping around.

He was great. Really good to that. Yeah. I mean, what do you want? Right. And not to mention, they hold Milwaukee to 88 points. Yeah. And speaking of holding them to 88 points, somebody who just got back from injury, Cam Reddish. Radish tonight, I thought had some excellent possessions defending Chris Middleton. And let's say Janus is out of the rest of the series, which, I mean, in all likelihood, he's going to miss at least a game. I mean, I mean, is he really going to be back after that hyper extension by Thursday night? I don't know. It's hard to imagine.

It's very, very hard to imagine that happening, which means a lot of pressure is going to be on Drew Holiday and Chris Middleton to generate shots, create offense even more than they were already because Janus's role sometimes in the half court is a screener or a finisher near the rim. So Cam Reddish did a great job on Chris Middleton, man. Like that's the thing. We talked about this when Reddish was coming back. You know, his offense has been up and down. It started really bad when he first got into the NBA last season. But every step of the way, his defense has been rock solid. It's been great at times.

So we saw that tonight in this game against Middleton. And for Atlanta here, you know, their depth just seems better overall. They have more pieces, more guys who can create for you, more guys who can get stopped. So, you know, we'll see what happens with the main guys. But for Atlanta, like, it looks great to have. Reddish performing at that level. I like your point on Reddish because when I was watching him tonight, one of the things that immediately came to my mind is D'Andre Aiton. And the reason is, because we have talked so much about how much Aiton has changed this year, he went out of his

way to talk up Chris Paul and the impact he has. That was a great quote. And it's one of those sliding doors moments where what does Aiton's career become if he's not with Chris Paul and in that environment this year? And I think the same thing can be said for Reddish because I was super down on Reddish after the first couple of years. But how do these guys react when you throw them in a good environment? You know, we've talked so many times about guys get drafted out of college and it's not unlike childhood. If I put a kid in a crappy school, guess what? The odds are he's not going to get the education. He's not going to like school. He's not going to have good teachers. And it's not going to be a great experience. And the exceptional

ones will be fine no matter where I put them. No matter where I put them, there's some kids that It doesn't matter what kind of environment you put them in. They're going to be just fine. But if I take some of the same kids that don't have the opportunities to go to good schools and I put them in a good school, watch how – then you can get the best out of them. And I really view it that way so many times in the NBA. It's like if you were on another rat team that loses 60 games a year, like you may lose Cam Reddish for a career.

His career might just end up being a disappointment. Same goes with Aiton. But these guys both got into winning situations this year. And it's like, you know, rising tide lifts all boats. And all of a sudden, this guy looks like a real player. You know what I mean? When you put him in a winning environment and... You're speaking to like a deeper societal conversation about your situation and

opportunity and education and all that. Absolutely. But like in terms of the NBA, for Cam Reddish, it's a great situation for him to be in Atlanta. It's like a, it's a role that emphasizes his strengths. Spot up, attack closeouts, make the right pass, play hard on defense. Like, it's very simplified for DeAndre Ait. And it's like, you don't have to worry about scoring 25 points now. Set strong screens, roll hard to the rim, rebound the ball, get put back dunks and whatnot. And then on defense, play hard every possession. It's simplified. And these guys are embracing their roles and performing at a high level.

And the major word that comes along with that, and I think about the, this when it was all these years down the road and you got the best out of Julius Randall. And Julius Randall talked about how Tom Tibido held him accountable. He said it's a first coach I've had that truly held me accountable. And Nate McMillan holds those guys accountable. They're not going to play. If you're camera, you're not playing. DeAndre Aiton, he is held accountable. Yeah. You're right. And so, and guys, crazy. that young players crave that kind of accountability that is required

and the discipline and so it's nice to see because it's a good story and I also don't want to I don't think it's fair to turn this one into a oh yeah well Janus went out A they're down double digits B the other team was up Trey Young

like they didn't play the whole game at least you had Janus for a half Hawks were playing a really strong game I mean you don't have any excuse to be fair like the bugs were starting to build a little bit of momentum start of the third quarter. But I mean, we've seen the Hawks take those types of punches all the time and then just fire back. They were playing great basketball tonight before Janus got hurt and after you got hurt.

They were sensational, really. All right. So go on the record. Kev, what's your prediction going forward? I'll tell you what. I can't tell you who's playing. How about, I mean, it's more likely we see Trey next game. That's fair, right?

Maybe. Maybe. I mean, but it's more likely, I think. I don't know. Who knows? You think that ref was standing there because he bitched at the refs all season? A sneak attack? Might have been.

Might have been a sneak attack. That guy didn't look remorseful at all. Did he? Usually you would think a ref would be like, hey, man. Like, you know. No. He's like staring him down. Like, what's wrong with you?

Like, did you just flop on a ref? Flopping again? No, I was like, bro, you better be hurt. You can't be laying out because you got stepped on a rep. I mean, I don't really know, Chris, but like I said earlier, Atlanta's depth seems stronger overall, the ability to withstand a loss and continue performing at a high level. We saw that happen tonight. We did. And I do worry about the, I worry for the buck side how good Reddish did against Middleton.

I know Middleton went off last game, but we've seen Middleton just get scorching hot like that. It happens regardless of who's defending him. Like nobody can stop that. But in our normal game, Reddish gave him some trouble, really good performance. Well, and what's crazy is the next game, which we don't know who the participants are going to be. And if Yannis, we'd imagine, just from watching tonight, it's very hard to believe that he'll be available. You'll hear it 100,000 times. The percentages in these series, when it's...

series is 2-2, the winner of game 5, like game 5 is the pivotal game. Historically, that is the game that has decided the series in, in more cases than not, at a very, very high percentage. So, who knows? I mean, it's, it's, it's hard to, it's hard to be able to predict anything when we don't even know who's going to be playing in the game, but God forbid, Janus really is out for the rest of this. And that's, you know, because it's, it's, it's, it's, you know, because it's, it's, It's like one of these teams got such a huge gut punch when it was announced that Trey Young was going to be out. And then the other one got a gut punch in the middle of the game.

And it's like your whole season, the whole season flashed before their eyes for every Atlanta fan. And then the whole season flashed before their eyes for every Bucks fan in the span of 12 hours because that's that's how fleeting this can be. Yeah. Unless you're the LA clippers, it seems. Because they now are in a very good position, Kevin. I view it like this. If you are the clippers, this is house money.

You know, if you lose, you didn't have Kauai. And everybody's going to say, man, and if they had Kauai, and if you win, you've done the incredible, truly, right? A three one come back without a former finals MVP. Right. One of the best five guys in the league, right? Someone who we would have said is absolutely essential to any success that they are going to have. But they ended up winning, you know, the game that they needed to in Phoenix. Now they get to go back home for a game six.

And then if you get to seven, oh my God, the amount of pressure on the team that's never been in that spot. You know, the Clippers are the much more veteran-laden team. And so I don't know, man. Like, I feel like Phoenix should have buried them. I feel like when they had the chance last night. and that could really, really come back to haunt them. You got a home game, you better bury them, and you didn't. You got to keep in mind, Kiv, the games that the Clippers have won, they bombed them out a couple times.

Oh, yeah? And the games that Phoenix have won. Miss two free throws and an eight and lob tip into the rim. I mean. Could be over already. I know. And then you get to last night. And I thought going into that game, when they announced Zubots was out, and look, I'm well aware,

Zubots has been good during this series. It interestingly still stands that they've only won one of the games, that he has played big minutes. But I am of the opinion that they are devastating small, that they have the goods to be able to play small. Well, look, they did, they won that way against Dallas. they won that way against Utah, and then they got to this series against Phoenix, and the general sentiment was, yeah, but you can't do that

because the other team has DeAndre Aiton. And that appeared to be a fool's errand. You know, you give Tailu credit for putting together the zone. You know, but let's be honest, the choice was made for him. I mean, it's hard to imagine he's not playing Zubach. if Zubotch is available. But what they did was run out there last night.

They made Aiton the Gobert character in that game. It was ball popping around. It was lanes open. And they demolished them in points in the paint. Because the truth is, yes, they have DeAndre Aiton, and DeAndre Aiton should, you know, Monty Williams should put them in a position to hurt them more when they play small. But he's the only big guy they have on the whole roster because they ain't playing at Kaminsky, you know.

And the other guys they have, those aren't big guy. It's bridges. It's Crowder. It's not. They're not the team. Sometimes you get these big teams that can really punish you for playing small. They're not the team that will punish you for playing a small lineup, in my opinion. And I thought you saw a lot of what you saw against Dallas, against Utah.

and then last night against Phoenix, where they've got enough defense and their offense can be just absolutely devastating. For sure. And I do wonder entering this next game, will we see some more situations in which they try to feed Aiton with a post-up to get him an opportunity to score on a smaller guy? Because there wasn't a ton of that, right? It didn't feel like he was fed that often at all. You know, with some of that they were playing drop deference with like some late switches or early. switches right at the top of the screen and it just was neutralizing that Phoenix pick and roll attack.

Well, here's the problem, Kemp. Nobody does it. Nobody posts people up anymore. Because it's an inefficient play for most bigs. Yeah. So you're like, you're playing the numbers. But if the clippers are shutting down what you do best, which is quick passes, you know, whipping the ball around the floor, a lot of assist. The sons throughout the series, their numbers per game in terms of passes translating into a sense. have dropped significantly. The cloverts have been a good job at, you know, turning that off. So maybe the key would be now and Kate instead

to experiment a little bit feeding aet and see what he can do against a smaller guy. I got to be honest, I was a little shocked that a Chris Paul led team looked that bad against the zone. Yeah, early on. It was a struggle for too long. That was too, too long. The other thing is they tried to

shoot him out of it. They got, they got some good shots out of it. Yeah, no. They didn't make a miss, but. What do he have six miss threes or something like that. Yeah. Like Chris Paul, he's not a three-point shooter, you know. It's not like he shoots a low percentage, you know, for his career, but he also is not a high volume.

He's never, that's not his game, right? You're trying to keep Chris Paul off the elbow, not away from the three-point line, you know, and Booker is still not right. Part of that is because of the defense, but it's just totally unfair to watch him and not freely admit that this is not the same player, you know. And we talked about the broken nose last week and I told you, you know, this is going to be very, very difficult.

Obviously, that mask was bothering him a lot. But they just, they need Booker to be awesome. And he hasn't been close to awesome. I mean, he's been bad. He's off. There's something off. And probably because of the nose injury, you know, like we've talked to them. Sure.

but I really do think with, you know, Aiton only had two post touches in that game. That's not enough. Hey, when you have a smaller guy on you, I wonder if we'll see more of that. Or maybe it's as simple as Devin Boker goes off, Chris Paul goes off. But ultimately, like, either way, Chris, you've got to give this Clippers team a heck of a lot of credit to even have a game six without Kauai Leonard. It's remarkable the toughness in the grit this team has up and down the roster. you really just have to tip your captain them to even be in this situation to have a chance to force a game seven. Let's tell him my buddy.

If you if you just had a guy that had been in a coma for 20 years and he came out of the coma and he was like, hey, you know, you're like, hey, let's watch this basketball game. And you just watched the second half of that basketball game. That guy would think Paul George is the greatest basketball player to ever walk the planet. Paul George was sensational. What a night for him, man. You watch him like that second half of that game, he really looks like the best basketball player you have ever seen. He's just ridiculous.

He's smooth. He can get to the basket. He could dish. He could cross you over and step back and hit a three. He can go to the line and get some, or he go to the cup and get some A and ones for you. and it's like, I just, it's unfathomable to watch him. You know, we saw him have a five for 20, just a few games ago, right?

And if you would have watched it, you would have been like, that guy's been, you know, that guy's going to be a Hall of Famer one day. A guy's made that many all NBA teams, right? And then you watch last night and it's like, that's why. I don't know if I've ever seen a better basketball player than this guy. He's unstoppable. He got whatever he was. He got whatever he wanted. And like, it's not like McHell Bridges was, you know,

letting him go by him. He, Paul George was hitting some tough contested shots near the basket from mid range everywhere around the court. And he made good passes too, right? Like he, he facilitated well as he has, even in the games he struggled scoring. But I mean, it was a sensational performance by Paul George. And it's just kind of great. Like, I can't get over the fact that they're in this position without Kauai Leonard. And then if they were to complete the comeback, they could be in the finals against a Hawks team or depleted Bucks team with Paul George's their best way. Like you never know what could happen the rest of the way. Expect the unexpected here.

Well, the other thing is we watch these games and you get so up and so down on these teams every single game. Right? Because we were, the sons were going to be there. You know? Like it's just a bridge too far without Kauai and, you know, how many times is Reggie Jackson going to be awesome and Paul George going to be awesome? I mean, the question is- A believer that Reggie Jackson just is awesome. I know.

I keep trying to quote, I keep trying to quote to people that thing that you keep saying on these shows about his, the ISO stat. Yeah, yeah. That he was like the best. Number one. Yeah. He's the best. When Reggie Jackson runs on isolation, the Clippers, like lead the NBA in isolation, scoring efficiency according to the Second Spectrum for the regular season and the playoffs.

Like all the names after him or the names you'd expect, Damien Lillard, James Hardin, Kevin Durant, Stephcar. It's like all those guys like you would guess who's number one. But Reggie Jackson is at the top. Force of Nature. It's nuts. I can't get over that. And you know what's so crazy, I should have just held on to my opinion.

because I told you it was 2014 that I saw, I covered a Memphis, Oklahoma City series, and in game four, game four was in Memphis, and the Grizzlies held Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook to 30 points combined, combined. And Reggie Jackson had 30 plus in the game. And single-handedly won them a playoff game. And for the next seven years, I thought Reggie Jackson, I was like, man, why don't people,

more people talk about Reggie Jackson? And then every time I would see him, he was going off. And I, like, had this higher opinion of Reggie Jackson than I ever should have. And it's all because of this one playoff game and then some subsequent regular season games. And then I was like, all right, fine. Like then obviously you're watching League Pass and it's like, okay, that's not what he's like all the time. Nobody has this opinion of Reggie Jackson. I should have just held on.

Yeah, you should have. Opinion of Reggie Jackson. It would have come back around it. I could have been like, I'd be telling people, Reggie Jackson. Verno Damos. I've been telling you. I've been telling you, this guy is the truth. Seven years ago, I saw him.

And now it's seven years later. And he's like just taking over playoff games. And I'll tell you what, it all happened because he, you know, the last two seasons fixed his three-pointer. He's shooting over 40% from three. He's improved his jump shot that's opening up driving lanes. He's always been a guy who could attack off the dribble, but he couldn't hit shots. That's opened up everything for him.

It really, like, it really does emphasize the importance of a reliable jump shot. That can, it can change everything for a player because it enhances all your other skills. Reggie Jackson is what the Lakers thought they were getting with Dennis Schroeder. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You know, this version of Reggie Jackson. One of the quick thing on the Clippers. Hey, well, hold on.

Before you go on, who gets more? Who gets more? They're both free agents. I'd go with a Dennis Schroeder. You think so. I think the clutch. I think Reggie might have gone ahead of it. The clutch Lakers, you know, connection there is playing into my reasoning.

Okay. But we'll see. We'll see. All takes is one. Hey, Reggie's made himself a couple bucks. That's for sure. No doubt about it. Rightfully so.

He looks great. Seriously. He looks great. Like an occasional, like, you know, silly mistake. But other than that, he looks sensational. What else were you going to say about the clips? I was just going to say, Paul George, 735 minutes played in the postseason so far, number one in the entire NBA.

Devin Booker is next closest with 605. Then Reggie Jackson, 585. I mean, it's just crazy. Like, Paul George is an outlier. 735 minutes. The only guy over 605. He's played the, I mean, almost three more games than anybody that. in minutes.

Is that right? Yep. Because you said it was what? The difference was 130? 735 for Paul George to 605 for Devin Booker. It's almost three games. That's wild. Dramatic difference.

I mean, it is three games. You play 40 minutes a game. You're pretty good at math, Chris. You get it. You get a, what's your GPA in math? It's from, I don't know. You get eight. You get eight.

You get eight. It's from GAT. Look, the reason I get to do the quick math is because of gambling. Not proud of that. Hey, I went and looked up. So regarding the small lineups, I went up and looked at this for just the playoffs, like because it was going to give me a bigger sample, right?

Because I said when it was Dallas, when it was Utah, and now Phoenix, whenever I see these small lineups, I think, man, this is such an advantage because they can really do this. And their offense is outstanding. And their defense is good enough. The second most played lineup in the playoffs so far for the Clippers. is this lineup. Reggie Jackson and Terrence Mann

with Batum, George, and Morris. Okay? That's the second most played lineup that they have. That lineup has an offensive rating

of 144. How many minutes total? 48 minutes. So what would be the equivalent of a game? Oh, okay. Wow. small sample, but, you know, it's the playoffs. Well, I mean, that's a second

most, you know, that they've used behind ones with Kauai. It's an outstanding number to have, like, regardless of sample size. And here's the point. Also, it confirms what you're watching with your eyeballs too. That's right. So like I say, the defense gets by. The defensive rating on that lineup is

126.5, which would on its own in a vacuum be horrendous. Yeah. Except they score 144. So, the net rating is plus 17. Yeah. So they just, I mean, they give up points, but they score at a rate that is just obscene. And if you go through it, there is only one Zubox lineup that has been good. Only one. And it's

with really four small guys. It's with Pat Bev, Reggie, Paul George, and Terrence Mann. And then, so one big and then four small guys. And there's a lot of the minutes where any lineup that Tim and Morris is a debacle. They can't do. It can't be. They can't play Morris and Zubots together. Chris, do you think the clippers are going to force the game seven? I get the sense that you do. Is Zubat's going to be out?

We don't know. If he's out, yes. If he's back in, no. Or if he plays, what is the number under 18 minutes? I mean, I think that's just relevant towards a lot of minutes. You know what I mean? I think that over the course of time, what we have learned throughout the season

and what we have learned through the playoffs. I mean, I think here's the big question, Kev. I do think the Clippers will win game six, okay, to answer your question. Assuming he's out. The big question will be, will you do the hard thing if you are Monty Williams

and it's not working with Aiton and just abandon it. I don't know if he'll do that. It did in Quinn with Gobert. They were just going to do it. You know, that's what they were going to do. They were going to play their big guy, and it just wasn't an advantage for them.

In fact, it was a massive detriment to them once the clippers went small. Are they going to force Phoenix to be small with them? Because you don't really have the option of being big, big. You could keep trying to throw post-ups to DeAndre Aiton, but you haven't done that all year. That's not how your team functions.

That's sometimes what happens in the playoffs is you do things that you haven't done that all-in-all- But he's not that guy. He's not that guy, pal. No, he's not that guy, pal. He's not a post guy, you're right. That's not his game. But, Chris, I, I, look, I mean,

if you're minimizing Aiton's minutes from 35 plus to 28, yeah, I could potentially see that, but I don't think you're going to pull the plug on 8. He's been sensational throughout the postseason, including in this series, in moments the clippers were playing small. Like, it just wasn't a great game. The clippers were sensational on both ends of the floor.

I think if you're the sons, you just need to figure out how do you get back to playing some of that crisp offense that you were playing earlier in the series and throughout the postseason? Because that's been lost. Part of that is due to injuries. Part of that is due to just, you know,

guys not hitting some of those open shots against the zone earlier in the game, but ultimately, I think for the Sun's team here, it's not any dramatic changes that have to happen, in my opinion. A lot of it is just due to what the theme has been throughout this. Devin Booker, not the same guy since the nose injury. Chris Paul, you know, been up and down since he got back. That last game, numbers-wise, was solid, but still only 8 for 19, still 0-4-6 from 3. Doesn't seem like he totally has his legs back yet on his jump shots, short a lot on

those, you know, you got to have your star players play like superstars the Clippers did with Paul George. He had a remarkable game. Chris Paul and Denver Booker did not. Sometimes I really do think it's that simple. I don't think you pull the plug on Aiton. If anything, maybe you lean more into Aiton and try to punish that. That's what Quinn did. No, he didn't. They didn't feed Gobert at all on offense because you can't feed Gobert. You can at least give Aiton the ball. Go bear, you can't. That's the big difference between us to guys. It's all rim runs. It's all rim runs. he's not posting anybody. Yeah, but you've never seen Gobert hit a turnaround jump shot.

Like Aiton can hit those. He had one of those. He only had two post touches, Chris. Like, Aiton's way too skilled on offense to not get four or five or six. I'm not asking for him to get 15 touches. But, you know, four or five or six touches, you know, let's see how it works. Let's just see how it works. Morris held up defensively.

Morris looked better than he has ever since he got back. The other thing is, it might be fair to say. that's it's an extreme outlier. Like Marcus Morris came into that game and yes, it's devastating when you can have somebody that forces you to pull Aiton completely away from the basket because he's making every friggin three he takes. Like if Marcus Morris misses those, it goes one for five or if Marcus Morris goes O for five, which is totally possible, you know, shooting those threes.

Maybe it's a different world, you know, but he didn't. He made him. And so then that, that opened up every lane. And you've got, when you've got ISO Reggie and you've got Paul George. I mean, it's not like the clippers shot the hell out of it, though. They were 10 for 30 total for the game, you know. Yeah, and truth be told, the Morris thing might be an outlier. He played huge minutes.

He got you 22 points. He took 16 shots. I misspoke earlier. He didn't hit five threes, but he took five and he made two of those four. first five and he had a huge first half and then Paul George took over the second half. But I mean, look, the other totals for Marcus Morris are four, eight, seven, six, seven. And then he had in two games against Utah, strangely, 25 one night to 24 another night. And so that's the thing.

Marcus Morris can be a huge problem by being able to play him at five against Aiton. and he's stretching the floor and he's kind of opening everything up for everybody else. I don't know. I mean, it would be a decision that had to be made because Aiton, you know, not only did they not get going offensively, I mean, they pulled them away from the basket. I think he had the worst plus minus, I think, by a pretty wide margin last night for their team. It's just a tough game. And that's the big part, Chris.

Like, that was the thing with Utah. You know, Gobert couldn't punish them on offense. so they were able to pull him away from the rim on defense because they weren't forcing them to go big. Aiton, if you're able to punish them inside, whether it's from Aiton, whether it's from, you know, attack and closeouts or Chris Paul getting to the basket, if you can beat them inside and force them to add a room protector, more minutes for Boogie Cousins. You know, I mean, or if Zubat's plays increasing his minutes, if you can do that, then you can get into what you want to on defense by having Aiton defending those pick and rolls, not just standing in the corner because he's defending Morris or. or Bertoum or whoever the big might be. So, like, you have to get inside. You have to get to the basket and punish them to make them make the change and adjust to you.

The other thing is Booker and Paul, those guys got to beat people off the dribble and turn him also make it easier for him. Let him be the Capella type. That's what he is, where you can finish because he could jump over everybody. But if they're not beating people off the dribble, they're not a driving team. They're a two, two dribble pull up team, right? But all you got to do is be able to get downhill a little bit to be able to set him up, roll into the basket on these hard rolls. And they haven't even been able to do that.

And part of that's because Terrence Mann and Pat Bev and that group, they have done an unbelievable job. Defending. Perimeter defense has been great. Yeah, I'm worried about Phoenix. Are you? No, they'll win one. So you think if they don't win, you don't think they're winning six in L.A.

I don't know. I don't know. I look forward to seeing the Zubots news on Wednesday. Oh. It is going to decide everything. I mean, it's going to make a difference for sure. It will. I think so too.

I got to be honest with you. If we're being like, this sucks. All the injuries. It just sucks. Yeah, I know. It really is deflated. me. Yeah. I know, especially the one tonight with Janus. Like that one just, you know, took my excited. I was so looking forward to doing this pod with you tonight. We were having a potentially,

you know, a good game, like Hawks were up. And then Janus gets hurt. Disappointed. Well, because at least with the Janus thing, if the bucks, you know, stood up and it's like, all right, they've lost DiVincenzo, but they're pretty full of strength. And you can say that they're a worthy team. People can forever say, yeah, well, Brooklyn would have been healthy. They would have lost. But, I mean, they got a two-time MVP on their team. And, I mean, if we get to the end of this,

Atlanta can really be in the NBA finals. That's a real thing right now. I know. If he's not back. There's a real chance right now. A real chance. Well, if it does happen, Kevin, I'm going to be very disappointed that you didn't pick Atlanta. Does I count on you to be the expert on all things at VA?

Do you think anybody picked Atlanta to be in the NBA finals? Atlanta fans. We picked Atlanta to lose to the Knicks. Yeah. They can't go to the finals. Come on. We had to lose it to the damn Knicks. That kind of here, Chris.

is that kind of year. There's been coaching news that has taken place over the course of the last couple of days. Look, this is not the way you want a new coach, a new coach's era to begin the way it is beginning for Chauncey Billups in Portland. First, we have a story a couple of days ago, since we've last spoke over the weekend by Chris Haynes about Damien Lillard and about his level of discontent

regarding the coaching search, the ability to build a champion. And then, you know, it felt like in some ways, you know, him paying attention to what fans were saying online and that it was bothersome that it was pegged on him that they hired Chauncey Billups who has this sexual assault allegation that took place in 1997, which I absolutely believe Damian Lillard he knew nothing about

and wanted to distance himself from the idea that he didn't care about this. He didn't know about this. And I believe him wholeheartedly because I'll be honest with you, Kevin. I have covered the NBA for the last 20 years of my life. Three days ago is the first time I'd ever heard about it. I mean, honestly, it just has not been a thing regarding Chauncey Billups, right? Like, you juxtapose that with the Jason Kidd story. Jason Kidd was an insanely famous player playing in the NBA finals.

I knew what his wife looked like and who she was. I knew what his kid looked like. and his name. And I mean, like, and he was in New York City. This is the epicenter of media attention. Twice when things happened, you know, on his record. And so that one was very well known to everybody. Chauncey Billups has been, it's not like he has been sight unseen.

He has been a national television broadcaster. He has been an assistant coach for the Los Angeles Lakers. and I understand that now when you're getting a head job, people are going to dive even deeper, but no lie. I had never heard of this situation until he got this Portland job. And so I believe Damien Lillard,

I can only imagine if you're Damian Lillard, you're sitting there going, well, hold the phone now, right? Like, if people are jumping on me for saying, I want to have a guy that has this in his past. That's not really fair because I didn't even know this. Fast forward to today.

They're doing the introductions. Chauncey Billups, rightfully is asked about it by Jason Quick. And public relations immediately shuts down the question causing just an incredibly bad scene for everyone involved. I think it's important to say the question asks, you know, in the introduction, Chauncey Billups said, you know, since 1997 when that happened, it was like an unbelievable, you know, life lesson for him. And, you know, it really steered the people

that he surrounded himself with, the choices that he made, you know, with friendships, with relationships. And Jason Quick's question was a follow up to that. You know, you said there was a lot of lessons in your life that you learned. It shaped your life. You know, what changed? And that was a question that got caught off. I thought it was a very, fair question to ask because, you know, having something like this on his record, um, there's so many other strong candidates in the NBA. There's hundreds of great coaches around the world who are fully qualified for a position. And Blazersedge.com did a great article last week, you know, talking to a lot of, you know,

their fans who are a woman about how they feel about it. They offer their, their thoughts and their opinions about it. And I believe one of them in there said, like there's so many qualifies. qualified candidates, why somebody would this on their record? And I think that's a very fair question. But I also think like the Jason Quick question is fair as well. How do you grow from something like that, from an allegation like that? And it's disappointing that Chauncey Billups didn't get an opportunity to answer that. I mean, that's the way I felt watching that. I just thought it was such a poorly handled press conference, Neil Lulshay throughout that,

not reeling any details of anything who investigated this. They said there's a team investigation it's just all been so poorly handled. It's just all of it's just disappointing. All of it's ugly. It is disappointing, but I will say, Kev, none of us even knew. But I understand this is the world we live in, right? People didn't know about something, and then all of a sudden it's the most important thing in the world to them.

And they're grossly outraged about everything that's taken place. I don't know what happened with Chauncey Phillips. I would imagine most of them. most people don't know what happened. I have always been one to say when it has come to matters of the law, like when guys do something wrong, if they are found to have done something wrong,

especially something is egregious of what he is accused, it is the job of a police department and it is the job of law enforcement to find these people, to make these people pay for their actions, right? They go to prison or they go to, you know what I mean? Or they have the punishment. Like, we have a structure in place.

I don't know what happened 24 years ago. And it would have been very worthwhile for him to sit down and explain. And maybe people would feel differently if he explained, you know, what happened. And I'm sure he never thought he was going to. revisit something 24 years after the fact. But I would just say that it is law enforcement's job to deal with something like that. All I can do is deal with what takes place after law enforcement deals with that and then have an opinion on that, right? He did not go to prison. He did not, it was not found guilty of this crime. There was a civil suit of which he settled

out of court in this situation. but... And the others involved in that did too. Ron Mercer also settled. He was part of that. And Antoine Walker also did. And I believe Antoine Walker's friend by the name of Michael Irvin,

no association with NFL Michael Irvin. That's right. And so it's hard because I have an opinion of Chauncey Billups. I didn't know about any of this. It's never been talked about as far as I know. It wasn't a thing when he was hired at ESPN. It wasn't a thing when he was hired at the Lakers.

And I understand the Clippers, I'm sorry. And now he is getting this head coaching job. It was never a thing when he was people talking about him getting the Cleveland General Manager's job. Like none of this. And now all of a sudden it comes up and people are outraged by it. But I mean, it's one of those things where I just learned about this. And I'm also, as I have gotten older, I just. just like it's not my job it's not my job to to judge people and i know that that's not the i know i know that's not the prevailing sediment around the world i understand that these kind of subjects are incredibly testy subjects that also uh people become very very passionate about

but i can't act like i'm an expert on the charlesy bill of situation what i do know is the way they handled that today was absolutely disgraceful. Yeah, they did. You know, he was ready to give his answer. His mouth was wide open. He was ready to give his answer. And you have to know that's coming and you have to be able to. And like, these are multi, this is multi billion dollar business. How are you not ready for that moment? And, and maybe just maybe his answer would have been wildly in, in a insufficient. It's very possible. No, and it might have been insufficient to me. Yep. And everybody else that's watching that, right?

Very well, could have been. Could have been also a powerful moment of growth, you know? It could have been something like that as well. Well, and because, I mean, what do you want him to do to if he, if his attempt is to clear his name and say, I want to be involved in, but he has been involved in basketball. He has. He was going to get the calves, job. He's been on ESPN for years. He's sitting on the sideline with the clippers this year. Like he has been omnipresent in basketball. We'll be on Wednesday night. Right? And so, like I under like with the Jason kid thing, we all knew that that was going on. But this is one of

those where we didn't even know. And so a lot of people have opinions of Johncy Billups that have been developed about the person that he is and has been for the last 20 years. Which is part of, I think, you know, the reaction here is that like for Chauncey Billups, the reputation, you know, for him as a player, as a leader, as a mentor to younger players, as both an assistant coach and when he was an older player, it's all, you know, great, right? Like, who could become a great NBA head coach? It's very similar to the way we talked about Steve Nash last year, right? when he was hired at Brooklyn, it's like this, you know, former MVP, a leader.

Like it checks all these boxes and similar for Chauncey Billups, right? Where he should, on paper, slide right in and become a great NBA head coach. And then this story is revealed. And I think it's true of a lot of guys. Like sometimes you have these moments where something comes up that happened, you know, in this case, it was 24 years ago. And if something I never, I never knew about, right? And so I thought this whole thing has just been a disaster for port.

I'll tell you what, Chris. I think, you know, to circle back to that Haynes report, right, of Dame trying to distance himself saying, I didn't know about this through the Chris Haynes report on Yahoo Sports. If you're Damien Millard here and you're watching that press conference, you're also seeing the dysfunction. you're seeing you're seeing how troubling this process was some investigation that we know no details of how it was handled you're seeing nil l's shay a couple weeks ago bashing essentially throwing terry stott's under the bus saying that the 29th ring defense wasn't because of the roster you know this and that if i'm damien lord i'm sitting here thinking to myself like am i on a sinking ship right now right you know paul allen long time owner of the blazers you know passes away now jody allen his sister is the owner um who others have reported is more hands off. Neil L. Shea seems to have, according to multiple Blazers reporters, and I've heard similar full control here with everything that's

happening, final say, if you're Damien Lord, I'd just be sitting here thinking, is this, like, is loyalty worth it? Is this, is it really worth it to be here? Well, and the other thing, Kev, is you see, this is supposed to be a great day. It's supposed to be a turning of the page. is supposed to be exciting. You're hiring Chauncey Billups, who a lot of people have thought very highly of for many, many years. As a head coaching candidate, a front office candidate, and everything in between,

as far as everybody knows, has conducted himself in an incredibly professional. And I can't speak to 24 years ago, but what I can't speak to is the last 24 years, of which everyone has developed their opinion. of this guy, right? And as far as I know, there has never been another

Chauncey Billups incident ever. Now, you could say, yeah, well, he was that guy way back when, and he did that, but it's been 24 years, and as far as I know, he's never had any issues with the law, right, since. And maybe you could say,

well, that he did this heinous thing, and then he learned from it. and, of course, he's walked the straight and narrow. But, I mean, people have developed their opinions upon what he is or what he has been for the last 24 years. And so now you have Damien Lillard, who feels like he knows this guy. And now you're getting blamed for him getting hired. You're watching that press conference today. Or frankly, you're not watching the press conference.

Maybe you are, maybe you're not. If I'm outside, if I'm within that organization or I'm even outside that organization, Kevin, The only clip that came from that press conference was that one. That's how bad they effed up. One clip. I know one thing that happened during an introductory press conference for that coach. One. And I saw the clip a thousand times.

And I saw a lot of people talking about it. Having very serious conversations. And they caused all that. by doing what they did, by stymying a reporter's question, because it just made it a hundred million times worse, right? And, I mean, it's supposed to be an exciting time for any franchise, and instead it couldn't be less exciting. It was a public relations debacle,

the likes of which is very hard to find in professional sports now. These teams are so good about this stuff. It was an absolute disaster. Absolute disaster. Yeah. And so we'll see. We'll see what takes place going forward. But Damien Liller trade, Damien Liller trades are hot and heavy. We were texting about one this morning. That's before this happened. Yeah. You know what I mean? And he may very well end up in a different uniform next year, Kiv. We'll see. There's a lot, a lot of time to go. I mean, we got, you know, Damien Lord,

to Ben Simmons stuff. Maybe those two could be teammates or swap for each other. I mean, Kauai's going to be a free agent. Like, we'll see what's going to happen. Yeah. I mean, if you're Chauncey Billups, your first call is to Damien Lillard. Yeah. And you say, look, I've talked to Neil.

Here's what we're going to do. I need you here. You're my guy. Blah, blah, blah. You know what I'm saying? A couple other coaching notes. Damon Stadamire, who I happen to know, I've known him for many years.

It was reported that he might get added to Ime Adoka staff in Boston. Another young African-American head coach being added to his staff. Now, I knew Damon was a college coach at the University of Memphis for Josh Pasterner, and then he was also a Grizzlies coach. And I knew him throughout all those years while he's coaching. He is one of the most impressive guys I have ever been. been around. And so when I saw that name, I was so happy for him. If he does take it, I know he's been happy at Pacific where he has been coaching college basketball. But I do think you're finding

a lot of guys, you know, that aren't as excited about being college basketball coaches as they once were, including Coach Kay and Roy Williams. Oh, yeah. You know, I mean, it sucks. You got to kiss these guys' asses by the time they're in sixth grade. You got to, you got to know everybody around them by the time they're in seventh grade. And then when you finally get them, they might go to the G League, they might get recruited by somebody else. The overtime league is now paying a $100,000 contract.

They might go overseas. Yep. You know what I mean? Like, because the other, so I think very, if he gets him, I will tell you, just from knowing the guy, that would be a very, very good hire for E. Mea Odoca. Some of these guys that I've been around over the years,

they just, and, you know, he was a point guard and an outstanding. one. They see the game at a different way. They see things you don't see. Um, and he is especially great with players because he was part of that jailblazers. And so you want to talk about a guy that can tell you, you know, talk about mistakes made and things that he did when he was young and he, he relates to these guys and they relate to him in a way that other guys, it's so hard, uh, to do. And he, and he, really has made it his life's mission to help young players not make some of those mistakes he made and also become great basketball players. Likewise, another former

point guard Penny Hardaway, his name was up for the Orlando job. For sure. And I thought, like, it looks like they're not, I mean, they weren't going to hire him. He put out a statement tonight that he's staying at the University of Memphis. But I wasn't going to be that shocked. No. I'm telling you, Kev. Nowadays, like, it looks. The last two big recruits Penny Hardaway had locked up, like I'm talking huge ones, were RJ Hampton. RJ Hampton went and played overseas. And then with the NBA.

And Jalen Green, who went to Team Ignite to go play in the G League last year. It's not the same game, even as it was a couple of years ago. And the other thing is he wanted to bring in coaching legend Larry Brown. and because Larry's had his own set of compliance issues, compliance is standing in the way, but in fact, they announced tonight Larry Brown is going to be Penny Hardaway's assistant coach at the University of Memphis.

That's something else. It's unbelievable, right? But you're seeing a lot of these guys get looks. And also, and I do think it's very, very good to have an infusion of African-American coaches in the NBA. It's something that has been brought up in the past. It was disgraceful how few there were. and I don't think that it is, I don't think it's necessarily coincidence.

You have teams that respond the way they do to Nate McMillan, Ty Lou and Monty. Monty Williams, three of those guys. You know what I mean? And so we'll see what takes place with these other jobs. I read somewhere that Kenny Atkinson was the favorite. Yeah, I saw that too, that he could be the favorite for the Orlando job. but that's still unclear at this point. That'd be a good hire.

Yeah, Kenny Ackinson's a really good coach. Well, I just liked that he took a young team and developed a real culture of a bunch of guys that really played for each other and succeeded. And that was one of the, I just liked that team so much. That net team was really fun to watch. That was a great Nets team to watch. They were. I got to ask you something before we get out of here tonight. So the draft stuff happened, the combine's taking place, right?

Yep. And I just want to ask you about a couple of names that I read about. So it seems like over the course of the last week, you see these different names coming up. I see people banding about on Twitter, different guys. Tell me about James Bow Knight from Yukon. It feels like he's been a real, he has been a topic of conversation over the course of the last five days in a way that I had never heard him be a topic of conversation before. So James Book Knight. Book Knight.

Book Knight. Yeah. sophomore, sophomore guard from Yukon. For him, you know, 6-3, 6-4, elite athletes, super explosive, speedy, you know, got springs in his legs, like that type of thing,

can create off the dribble for you. And the question with him, after his season at Yukon shot 30% from three, was, well, how good can his jump shot be? He shot over 80% from the free throw line, has good touch, you know, on those floaters and layups. Well, he shot the heck out of it at the combine. and looked so fluid, so smooth.

So we talked earlier about Reggie Jackson, about how having an improved jump shot has changed his game. Well, if Book Knight's jump shot is for real and this continues through workouts, I mean, it looked great. If that continues, Chris,

I mean, there's like no doubt he's going to be a lottery. So that's why he started getting talked about in a way. Yeah. It just had not before. It's like the jump shot activated everything for him. Right. Like if that,

if the jump was for real, everything else suddenly becomes way, way, way, way more appealing. Played for a good coach, hardly. Yeah. At Yukon, right? So, you know, he played for a guy that demands something. Other ones, just from Combine stuff, a guy that I was familiar with, Keon Johnson from Tennessee.

My God, when they posted his vert 48-inch. I was, now he had, people can go back and look this up on YouTube. For those of you that are big NBA fans, but don't really watch college basketball that much. He had probably my favorite college dunk of the year. It was in the Georgia game. So you can just type in Keon Johnson versus Georgia. And it is, I mean, you can tell this guy is a leaper that is uncommon

because he just rises out of nowhere and just spikes on a kid. Hell of an athlete, but God, I didn't know that. I mean, I think they said he set the record 48 inches. I think you've had him in the top 10. Yeah. Even before that happened, right? But, I mean, when you're talking about that kind of an athlete, fast twitch stuff, you never know how high a guy can get.

The funny thing with Keon Johnson is he didn't start playing basketball full time until he was in high school. So he's one of those types of guys who getting a little bit of a late start. well and he was also on a disappointed college team yeah right i mean like they they they fluttered out the other one was the moses moody wingspan like remember when i told you i saw mckell bridges for the first time i'm a person and i was like i've never seen anything like this this moses moody thing if you see the pictures of him like there's pictures of him touching the floor and touching the top of a doorway. At the same time, he's standing sideways and he is touching a door and the floor.

At the same time, his mom calls him the human selfie stick. Because his arms are that damn long. Now, I love that Arkansas team that Musselman had this past year. But, man, you get a guard. He's a good little scorer. booty is and that kind of wingspan, oh my God, there's a group of GMs that will absolutely go bonkers over that. They're salivating or a wingspan like that.

And he's the type of guy who can tie his shoes without bending over because his arms are so long. Yes. But those things, like, it's one of those things where sometimes they talk about like hand size or they talk about this or they talk about that. Like the wingspan thing matters a lot in rebounding, in defense, and also getting your shot off. because you could get the shot off like you're a damn seven footer, even if you're six, six, you know? So some of those measurements were crazy,

but the Moody would stood out, the Kea Jaws would stand out. But I don't know, how high could you see that booknight kid going? Because he, boy, I hear a lot about him this past week. Top 10 wouldn't shock me. Lottery is safer to say, but I mean, like after. He's the first one. He's the first one that's really like flown up.

after the top four, it kind of flattens out in terms of how teams are talking about these guys. Like, comminga has fifth on most people's boards, but we'll see. I mean, Scotty Barnes, you know, another guy who seemed to have a good week at the combine. It was already rising even before the combine on a lot of teams' boards. So maybe he slides up to five book night could fly up to. I mean, this draft after the top three, four guys, it's all a matter of taste. But you think it's very, very good. The drafts.

Yes. Yeah, I think there's a lot of talent. I think there's a lot of talent this year. And in terms of there's guys that are easily projectable into roles. You know, like Moses Moody, you mentioned him, it's so easy to project him into a 3-and-D role. Will he become much more than that? I don't know. I mean, like, there's a lot that he needs to figure out in his game, you know, in terms of generating shots off the dribble and everything.

But, like, there's no doubt about his ability to do that, right? Same thing with like some of the other guys. Like there's no doubt about like a Wagner being a solid defender who can hit threes for you and make the smart play. Can he reach a higher level than that? We'll see. Can Davion Mitchell be more than a six foot, you know, tough, hard-nosed, greedy defensive guard who hit some big shots for you?

Can he be a go-to guy? I don't know. We'll find out over the course of time. But you know what at worst he's going to be. You know what at worst he's going to be. He is a Rottweiler. Exactly. And that's the thing with this year's draft.

There's a lot of those guys where I feel like you know at worst what they're going to be. And that to me is a good draft. It's a good draft. Let me ask you real quickly. Any other Baylor guys? Because that was the big title team. I know Mitchell's real high. There's the other kid that's got the med flags.

So Jared Butler is the other main one there. And he was out because of the hot condition. He's med flag, right? Yeah. But we'll see if he gets cleared from that like he did at Baylor. Hopefully because, you know, he's super, super, super. I'm really a big fan of his game. I like Jared Butler a lot.

Yeah, usually there's at least three on national title teams that end up at worst getting a cup of coffee. And that Butler team was just devastating. I'm sorry, that Baylor team was just devastating. My God. All right. Kevin, who the hell knows who we're going to be talking about on Friday? Who knows who's going to be playing by the time we next talk?

because we're going to keep our fingers crossed that Janus can come back. Keep our fingers crossed that nobody else gets injured. Trey Yon can come back, Capella, nothing's wrong with him. I mean, like, hopefully that series did not get just napalmed tonight. And then on the other side, let's just hope there's no other injuries and at least get to finish out Clips and Phoenix. But both of these series looked... like they could be quick work, that they might be, you know, five game series.

And we know that neither of those are going to be five game series. And it would not shock me now if we get two game sevens, unbelievably. Wouldn't shock me at all. I'd sign up for that. Yeah, with two. Game sevens are always fun. At least you get two game sevens. Even if it is, by the time we get to that, it's going to end up being Pat Conantintern versus

Kevin Herger has the big showdown. Maybe ESPN can promote it like that. Tonight, Game 7. Trey Young's on the bench. Clint Capella's on the bench.

Yannis is on the bench. Middleton's banged up. But it's going to be Herder versus Connaton. Jesus. Oh, man. All right, Kev. Hopefully no more injuries.

I'll talk to you on Friday. I'm looking forward to it. Thanks to Carlos for filling in as our producer, and we'll talk to you later in the week.