The Mismatch - How Far Can Embiid Take the Sixers? Plus, the WTF Bucks, the Randle-less Knicks, and the Warriors Came to Play.

Episode Date: April 5, 2024

Verno and KOC discuss the 76ers' impressive win over the Heat (01:30). How deep of a run can the Sixers make with the returns of Joel Embiid and Tyrese Maxey? They then turn their attention to the Bucks and debate whether they can still make a Finals run despite their struggles (14:46). Also, the guys discuss how far the Knicks can go now that Julius Randle is confirmed out for the season (24:01). Next, they discuss the Warriors' huge win over the Rockets, as well as their excitement for this weekend’s Final Four (33:14). Got a question for Verno and KOC? Send them an email at [e-mail]! Or you can send the guys a tweet @ChrisVernonShow and @KevinOConnorNBA! The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out http://theringer.com/RG to find out more, or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Have you ever wondered about the meaning behind your favorite song lyric or why certain melodies make your skin tingle? I'm Cole Kushner and these are the kinds of questions I try to answer on Dissect, a podcast that dives deep into one album per season examining the music, lyrics, and meaning of one song per episode. I've dissected full albums by Kendrick Lamar, Radiohead, Tyro the Creator, Beyonce, Kanye, and more. Our latest season just launched all about M.F Doom's Mad Villany. Listen to Dissect wherever you get your podcast because great art deserves more than a swipe. Welcome to the mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon and joining me on this Thursday night from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, A.K.A. Kevin O'Bomber, Kevin O'Connardt, Kevin O'Brien, Kevin O'Connorne, Kevin O'Brien, Kevin O'Brien,

Coach of the Year. Enough already. We'll talk about the what-to-half bucks later in the show. But what we need to start with was this game that I just watched intently, which was Philadelphia and Miami, which was absolutely positively. Playoff intensity, great. And I am ready to be full-fledged prisoner of the moment that Philadelphia team, which we had not seen since January 25th with Maxi. and Embed in the lineup. That is a long time ago. So we went from January 25th to April 4th. We got to see them back in uniform tonight.

They were absolutely off the chart in the first half. Maxi had 24, 7, and 5 when they got to halftime. They had scored over 60 points in that first half, 63, in fact, which the announcer for the Miami Heat said was the most first half points that Miami had given up since a January game against Boston, where Boston, as you may recall, threw up 77 on them in the first half of a game against Miami. But this was all, the reference point was the last 10 games, the heat had been absolutely swallowing people. people up defensively. They've been great. And now you have Maxie and Embed both in the lineup.

And they looked at peak of powers, both of them, in that first half. And at the end of the half, it's like a 20 to one run, the end of the first half. And then you get a couple late buckets from the heat. It was like you'd be blown away with the Sixers. and then it'd get to the end of the half or the end of any quarter and the heat would just score in bunches and make it look a lot better. So you're looking at it and they're like down 16 and now they're down 8. And then you look in there down 16 and now they're down 7.

Or at one point they flipped the score and Kevin loves grabbing every rebound and throwing outlet passes. And then of course in that second quarter a phrase I never thought I'd utter, which was it got to half time, and I was like, oh boy, where would they be without Haywood Highsmith who had like 12 points in the second quarter? You know, he'd come out, impose their will in the third quarter, and then ended up being a great fourth quarter, which saw Philly just run away with it at the end. Outscore. They are down 102 to 94, and the next thing you knew, they were up 107-102.

So they went on a 130 run. I believe they finished on a 15-3 run in the game. And Kevin had me believing in Philly. I don't want to be too much of a prisoner of the moment, but watching that, and I'm like, oh, my God, Buddy Heel didn't even make any shots. Max, he's flying around, and Bede looks good. They're throwing the kickouts.

Kelly Ubrae's knocking down corner threes. I was like, holy, man. mccle, you better watch out for Philly. And Embed looks spry. He looks mobile. He had a play in the first quarter where there were three heat players around him. I think it was his last bucket of the quarter where he kind of ripped through two guys and hit kind of a finger roll slash floater in the lane before the shot clock went off.

And in the fourth quarter, he had like a couple of plays offensively, corralled Terry Roseir late in the game. He just looks, he looks like he's picking right back up where he left off. He does get a little more tired in the second half, which is understandable. Sure. He's just coming back from a long absence, but I think when he's on the court, you know, in those moments where he's energized, he's still getting his wind back, but he looks mobile. And for the Sixers, like you said, Heald didn't even hit a shot. I know. We haven't seen an opportunity here for Buddy Heald and Joelle Labede to develop chemistry together.

Those two guys could have a great two-man game once Heald starts draining jumpers. I think for the Sixers team, man, it's kind of interesting. Like they did successfully throughout this entire stretch without an bead. They didn't plummet. I mean, they're the eight seed right now, but they're a half game back from the heat for the seven after this win tonight. They're only one game back from the six. And they're only three and a half back from the Knicks.

You're unlikely to catch them with so few games left. But you didn't completely free fall to where the getting a six. seed is unreachable here. They could catch the pacer's and guarantee themselves a slot in the playoffs. So I think for Philadelphia, you know, obviously they struggled without MB, but they didn't completely struggle so much that they don't even have a chance at the 6th. And I think Embed through two games so far looks good enough that you got to feel confident that they have a real shot here getting that and making a deep run in the playoffs once they're

in. Well, and the other thing is this, Kev, it's more important than the Embed thing to me, obviously, you wanted to see that he is mobile and he can move and he can do Joel Embed things. It's the Maxi thing. Oh, Maxi's awesome. The perimeter, like, what you couldn't count on with Hardin last year is what I feel like you can count on with Maxi this year, which is that dynamic. dynamic perimeter guy to go along because you talk about the two-man game with Embed and healed. Like,

you see how much better Joel Embedd's presence makes Maxie. Oh, my goodness. And he is devastating. He truly, this is his first game back. He is going a different speed than the other nine guys when he gets a ball. And, you know,

there's so many times every game you watch, there's some announcer for the opposing. team that's playing against the sixers saying this guy's like a one-man fast break because he's down to the other end making a layup on you and there were three guys between him and the goal it's absolutely awesome and i like trust him i think he's a gamer i you know i've loved maxies since the first time i saw him and by the way did you also see the the hardened stepback that he had tonight in the first quarter like i think it was a you know a couple minutes left late just He can slow down and decelerate when he needs to as well.

Like the dude is awesome. Now, on the other side, we do have to take into consideration that it felt like an incredible anomaly for what happened to the heat down the stretch of that game. They scored one field goal in the last eight and a half minutes of that game. I mean, and they had a three to ten. take the lead, that Jimmy Butler missed. Jimmy was not like they, you know, they would run these doubles at Jimmy. It should try to get the ball to his hands. I mean, there's a lot of Terry Rozier dribbling.

Yeah, a lot of dribbling. That heat offense can go from looking beautiful and spectacular to completely ugly within the same game. And night to night, it's like that as well, which is a great frustration, I'm sure, for heat fans following every single game. I know. But I think from Miami, like it's encouraging you get Kevin Love back recently.

He's been very good off that bench for them all season long with the spacing he provides, the ball movement he provides. And still, it's like we've been saying all year long, they're a different team when Jimmy Butler is in playoff mode. And the one difference this year that Heat fans can look forward to is Bamato Bio shoots threes now. He's doing like one or two, three, pointers a game. He's been shooting over 50% on threes ever since he started shooting them on a

nightly basis. That open three at the top of the key. I'm just intrigued. I'm intrigued by this late season development from Bam. It just reminds me of many, many years ago, Chris Bosch when he started adding the corner three. That's one of the reasons why the heat beat the Celtics in the playoffs. Bam adding this is a new ingredient. Will he start shooting even more of them in the postseason rather than just one a game or two a game. And if he continues making them, how soon until defenses start actually respecting that shot and closing out on him and then allowing Bam to do what he does best as a big, put the ball on the floor and attack and face up.

And that creates a whole new different ingredient for that heat offense in the half court. So it's one little skill that he's added in the past six weeks or so that I think is worth monitoring when it comes to thinking about the heats playoff. folks. Yeah, and I think it was one of those weird games. I did not walk away thinking less of the heat and how dangerous they can be. I'm with you. They're probably getting a hero back.

And it's one of those in heat culture, in SPO we trust, which is you're going to get to the playoffs and now you're game planning. You think he's going to have the right game plan and he's going to push the right buttons to make your life hell. Right. Whatever you do that beats them one game is not what you get to do the next game on and on. It's sometimes like against Denver. They'll just be overmatched. But, you know, we've seen them be overmatched on a talent level before and come out victorious. So they are one of those that we just always set aside and we know that you typically get a very different product when it comes to playoff time.

To me, it was one of those weird games where I did not think. less of one team, but I did think more of the other. Because you just want to see it in action for it to take place. And I mean, if I'm, if I'm Boston or if I'm Milwaukee, I think I walked into a lot of this going, we talked about it last week. It's like, you're just hoping that Miami gets up to six because you don't want to have to see them. You don't even want to have to mess around with them being seven or eight.

and it's like I mean there's no great option right there's no great option here because that Philadelphia draw is a bitch too

because they are just they look like a team that is a team that we put up there with those other two you know they were kind of in a group by themselves

you know where it was like it was going to be Boston there's going to be Milwaukee and it was going to be Philly. And then we always give Miami the credit that it deserves, but that if you would have given us those four teams, you say there are Easter Conference Finals representatives coming from that group.

And as of tonight, we just watched two of them. There's no other team you think could make the finals. Is that fair? Than those four? We're talking Celtics. Celtics, bucks, heat sixers. Knicks aren't healthy enough. Randall out for the year now.

Magic too young, too inexperienced. Caves, don't trust them. Don't trust them. Mitchell's also not, you know, proven that he can maintain his all-star level, you know, production since he got injured.

And then no Indiana, no one. Too young, not going to enough. Atlanta or Chicago. So, yeah. That's it. So it's only those four. And two of them are going to be like six and seven or seven and eight or.

Yeah. literally all four could be the first round matchups. Right. And unless the bucks continue to slide because they're only a game and a half up on the Cavs. The issue is, I mean, I guess there are only two games up on the Magic and the Knicks as well. Right. So the magic could catch the bucks.

But, you know, we'll see how it all shakes out. But point being is that the Celtics and Bucks could be the one and two seed. and potentially the Sixers in Heat could be the seven and the eight. The thing is, is for Philly, their final five games, they have Memphis and San Antonio on the road,

and then at home they have Detroit, Orlando, and Brooklyn. They could win all five of those. For sure. And they could finish the season on a seven-game winning streak. And maybe that gets them the sixth seed,

possible. Maybe I cannot see it getting them the five-seat just because the amount of games remaining. like I think at five the Knicks would really have to just freefall and they win tonight on the road against the Kings. That's a big win for them. So they stop their losing streak and they have some tougher games but also they face Chicago three times over the remainder of the season.

They should at least win two of those, one of those. So I just don't think the Sixers can get up that high. But the 16 is achievable from Philadelphia for damn sure. Which then makes it all the more important. The bucks better get their crap together, Kevin. I mean, they've been 15 and 15 since Doc Rivers took over, and you're putting yourself in one of those situations now where you say, hey, there's not that many games left. If they continue to play 500 basketball, it's going to get flipped on them.

Because if I'm playing 500 and you're playing two games over 500, you flip it on me. And they better get their stuff together and get their stuff together quickly because the fact that this is even a conversation after their last two games have been against Washington and Memphis is crazy. Crazy. I get it. You're down Middleton. You're down Dame. So you took a loss to fill in the blank.

Even down those guys, there is absolutely no excuse to be losing to Washington and Memphis. You can't use the they didn't have. Damien Lillard and they didn't have Chris Middleton against Memphis, who has Jaron Jackson and like Jordan Goodwin and guys that people have to look up. Who's your starting center? Trey Jemison. Yeah, do you even know who he is? Yeah, I know.

But they have to look these guys up on two ways. I know, exactly. You guys have 30 players suit up for your team this year. Is that the number 30 right now? How many is? They broke in the record. They actually, hey, actually this week, they broke the record for the most injured team in the history of the NBA. Wow.

I'm telling you, Taylor Jenkins coach of the year. He deserves top three consideration. Maybe so. If we're going to vote, Wemby. They say that Dagnol's running away with it. Yeah. I think he deserves it. I mean, him, Jamal Molesley with the Magic 2, he should be top of ballots as well.

If you're going to give Taylor Jenkins one, we need to retroactive. give him two years ago and take that thing out of Monty Williams' house. I mean, I think I'd forget who I voted for that year. It might have been Jenkins I voted for that year. You'd probably voted for Monty Williams. I did not. I did not vote for Monty Williams. And now, no, I didn't.

And now Monty Williams, like, I mean, you might as well have been coaching him as much as he stuck with Killian Hayes for as long as he did. It's a, it's a worst coaching job in the history of basketball. Maybe I was coaching him. Maybe you were. Anyways, the point is Milwaukee has no excuse. You can't say, oh, well, we didn't have our guys. Like, okay, like, you played freaking Washington and Memphis.

And this is now like... I did vote Taylor Jenkins. I found it, by the way. I had Taylor Jenkins first of my ballot that year in 2022. Yeah, I did. All right. Well, you did give him a vote once upon a time. I did.

I did vote Taylor Jenkins that year. Well, anyway, the Bucks. Yeah. Back to the Bucks. That loss, those two losses, that's terrifying for them. Dispicable. It is despicable. And I've really went back and forth with this team this year where you go from saying,

they need to fire their coach or they're not finals contenders. Then they fire their coach and they start off a little slow with dog. But then they started clicking. The defense was playing at a high level. They were changing schemes each game. Things were looking great. Janus and Dame were running way more picking rolls. things were trending up.

Middleton wasn't even back yet. And now it's at the point where you look at this team and they seem like they're a mess. They just, things don't seem like they're functioning, right? That's a weird team. They don't feel like they're playing,

they're playing down to their opponents. Janice is dealing with a hamstring injury right now. Dame is dealing with a groin injury. And Brooke Lopez, he might be the biggest issue of all right now in that he is nowhere near as close to his mobile as he was last. season. Brooke Lopez looks like a diminished version of himself, and that was clear in that

Memphis game. It's been clear even in some of their wins. Jared Jackson cooked that dude. I know, but and that's the thing. Brooke, I think, would have been better suited to defend a quicker front court guy like Jaron Jackson last year. This year, like he's never been super nimble, you know, moving laterally. But he was quicker last year than he is right now. And that's why Doc Rivers has occasionally closed games with Bobby Portis. But Bobby Portis is not the guy you want to be closing with. It just feels

like maybe this Bucs team just isn't good enough. Well, here's the thing. This is a great conversation because this is why I'm so torn. And you and I have both been very high on that. We both pick them to make the East Finals and then the NBA finals. 100%. There's

still the other side of me that goes, here's the devil's advocate. Their numbers with their line. and their best lineups are still unbelievable. Outstanding. When they have their lineups, their numbers are incredible. Their numbers with Lillard, like they have a loss almost every time they've played without Damien Lillard.

So we know his importance. Last night they didn't even have Patrick Beverly. So if I'm throwing Beverly and I'm throwing Lillard and I'm throwing Middleton and I'm throwing the three eight-man rotation, including my second best player in the mix, and my third best player, by the way, in the mix. Two of my top three players and a very essential bench reserve for me that's going to be getting playoff minutes. I throw them in.

And the record against top seven teams is still outstanding. Their record in clutch games still outstanding. So that's why I'm so torn. I just want these idiots to look awesome for two weeks straight, which we're never going to get this season. we're never going to get them like, holy mackerel. Look at that team, which is basically what the Celtics have been all season. Unless we get it now.

Unless suddenly they go on a streak here. They have New York, Boston, Orlando, OKC, and Orlando again to close the year. Plus that's Toronto on Friday. If they got their guys back and that's the ramp up. Because Yonis' numbers going into last night had been downright scary. I mean, the guy was averaging. damn they're 40 and 17 over the five games

going in. I mean it's crazy. I know. I know. Despite the hamstring injury. He's still dealing with that hammy and he's still dominating. But there's like, so there's the one side where I see those numbers and I see the clutch numbers and I see

their record against the top seven teams. And it's like, yeah, they have showed me why they deserve my respect and why they are. team that we thought they were. And yet the results are the results. They play 500 basketball for 30 games. It's not a small, that's almost half the season. Yeah.

And you're a 500 basketball team. That's what you are. There's all kinds of these teams that play without players all the time. So you can't use that. And I'm not, the thing is, though, is for all the reasons you just stated, I'm not giving up on them. I still have belief in the bucks. I'm not changing my pick yet.

That could happen, but I'm not doing it yet. The Bucks to me still have a bunch of championship ingredients. And for all the reasons you stated and come playoff time, that could bode very well for them. We're in every single series in the East. They do have the best player oftentimes in Yannis, especially this season with the level he's playing. I would take Yannis over Embed right now.

We don't know how Mbid will get back. He does need to get his win back. And B. He looks good. He looks mobile. He does need to get his energy back and prove he can stay healthy. Janus is absolutely on top of his game this season. He's better than he's ever been, in my opinion.

So I think for the Bucks, if him and Dame can get going, if they can get into some of those good habits we saw this past month where they were changing defensive schemes, trying different stuff out, switching some nights, playing drop coverage other nights. You got a shot. But ultimately, there are some concerns that you have to talk about. But I think for the bucks, you can't give up on them and rule them out. I think that would be incredibly silly. Fandals putting the ball on your court for the rest of the NBA season,

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Must be 21 plus and present in the select state's gambling problem. Call Warrant of Hurt or gambler or visit RG-dashel.com. First online real money wager only, $10 first deposit required. Bonus issued does not draw a bonus bets that expire seven days after a seat. See terms of sportsbook.fandul.com. And as we go down a little bit farther in the stand, as we talk about teams that have been without guys, the Knicks have been just ravaged by injury,

you know, including this major piece in Nidobie that they had gotten. We finally got the news, and you and I talked about it earlier this week, where I brought up the Josh Hart quote, and I was like, Kevin, I don't like this. I don't like this.

There's never any positive news about the Randall thing. It's just a bunch of guys talking around it, and we're hopeful, and if we get him back, It'll be pleasantly surprised. And it's like, dude, this guy's not coming back. And then finally we get the news that he's not coming back and he's getting shoulder surgery. But this is dragged out for a long time to be hopeful for no reason.

You know, they tried to do this. They tried to do that. Like, it's just the guy wasn't going to be able to play through it. And I feel like, you know, they had so much success after the end of OB trade. They'd won those 12 of 14. The numbers were crazy. The numbers with OG and Brunton have still been outstanding, but obviously they've had to be navigate without OG and Ninobe.

You know I love that next team. You know, I thought they're super dangerous. They need Randolph. They do. And it's the, on a game in, game out basis, you can fill it in with Josh Hart, you can fill it in with Bogdanovich,

you can fill it in with all those guys. when it gets playoff time and now it's sell out on Brunson time it's like I do need another guy that's going to be able to go get me bucket and I know he's had some playoff struggles but I get it, Kev I get it 15 games in the next with the playoffs

for the Knicks 34% from the field I got it, 28% from 3 a thumbs down to the crowd a bunch of stinkers I got it but Kevin there are five guys in the NBA that have averaged 24, 9, and 5. The other four are literally the MVP list.

It's Yokic, it's Yonis, it's Luca, and it's M.B. I know. And Julius Randall. I know. So, I mean, it's a lot to lose. And I just think that, I think that during the regular season, you can navigate without, but you need a release valve, man,

even if it's not. And I do think that, you know, maybe he would have a better chance. I think even then, you know, when we've last seen him in those playoffs, he is miscast as a playoff Batman. There's no question he would be the playoff robin to Brunson. And so my hope would be

that he would have been able to be more successful with a elite level Jalen Brunson. Which Brunson is right now? With another release valve in Ananobe. Like they got better players than they had when he has played in those playoff games. Go look at those playoff rosters and then tell me that Julius Randall stinks

and he should have carried the Knicks. And it's like, I mean, he was terrible in the playoffs. I got it. He was horrible. Those teams weren't good. Yeah, but he was terrible. I got it, Kemp. I got it.

You told me the same thing about Drew Holiday, too. Drew Holiday has been bad in the playoffs offensively. That's a fact. I got it. But I believe in him, too, when it comes to, you know, I don't think he's going to be terrible. Because he's an excellent defensive player. And he's also in a different role right now for Boston than he was from Milwaukee, too. That's a completely different thing.

Look, Julius Randall is wildly miscast as the best player on a team. Yeah, I mean, we agree. and we agree that they are better off with him. I'm just saying that for the Nix, he's been horrible in the playoffs. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying anything else. He's been bad in the playoffs.

I'm not disagreeing with you. Okay, but you think they need him. Look, in order for them to pull an upset, which is what they would have to do in order to get to the East Finals, I think with Randall, if they had Ananobie, Randall, and Brunson, they would have a chance of going to the East Finals. I think without Randall, that chance does not exist.

That's what I'd say. Their numbers when they had those three were crazy. What if I told you that you would have gotten the same version of Julius Ramble you got in the past two post seasons? Do you still think that this team minus that guy, that there's not a chance that somebody else steps up in this case, like listen here? Okay.

Like Miles McBride, the way he is improved offensively. you got guys like Di Vincenzo who are getting more shots, more three-point opportunities. Is it possible that if OGM-N-Ovi is the guy who comes back with him getting close-out attacking opportunities, stuff within the flow of the offense, more on Brunson, is it possible that the Knicks are better off in the situation that it could actually end up a blessing in the skies that you don't get Randall back? Because there's no guarantee that you don't get that Randall again. You might have gotten that Randall again if he came back. of. Now, there's might be who he is in the playoffs, or he just craters.

He might be that guy. I saw them with Randall and Adobe and Brunson. I know. But I'm giving you this scenario. Is it possible that this could end up being a blessing of disguise for this Knicks team? No. Okay. All right, so you don't think so.

And I was in love with the Knicks, but they needed Randall back. Their number with those three guys on the court, Kevin, were insane. And Randall is required. to do less when they have the three of them. So I would not expect him to be a playoff nothing because he's got guys with him and is required to do less and get less attention. They had like a plus 26 net rating

with those three guys on the court. They were devastating. It worked perfectly. And so you need it. Again, and I'm not talking about like a first round series if they play Orlando or they play Cleveland or whatever. I'm talking about when you get to, you know, for the most part of the season,

they've been in that four or five slot. So if they got out of that and had to play Boston, that's when to me it shows up that you don't have somebody else. If I'm going to stick, you know, if I'm going to make Jalen Brunson's life hell, who is that other guy that could be the release valve that gets less attention

and can make me pay for getting less attention. It sucks. It sucks for the Knicks. I mean, it was a bunch of guys tried against the Kings. They blitzed them, trapped them, got the ball out of his hands, and everybody on the Knicks ended up benefiting for it.

Josh Harko, 14 of 19 from the field, your guy, 31 points. Love him. I mean, that's what I'm saying. Like, I think their chances are diminished without the ceiling that Randall could provide. But I also think that the Knicks do have a lot of talent on the roster,

that there's a chance here, that if they were to get the version of Randall who's detrimental to your team, which is especially possible after such a long absence. There's no guarantee he would have helped this team. It is possible that other guys can step up. And you could be better defensively,

which is what Tibbs, and you may just grind out these games. Right? You're not putting a worse defensive player on the floor than him. I just worry about the scoring. That's all. That's what I worry about.

I don't doubt that the Knicks are going to be able to grind you down and make your life hell and make it hard for you to score, I just don't know if they can score enough when it comes down to it. When they've looked bad, they've looked really bad. Yeah. Offensively. Sure. If I'm just game planning against them for seven games, I think it makes it a lot harder for that.

I'm with you. I mean, like, we're on the same page. I just think that there's a chance that this could be a silver lining for them for this particular season. Too bad Randall got hurt in the first place and we didn't get to see them healthy and they still need to get OG. Yep. So, I mean, like, they get a lot. I mean, also the tests tonight against the Kings are not exactly going against the 86 beers. You're going against a subpar defense in Sacramento about to fall to the nine seed and potentially lose against the Warriors and have them end your season for the second year in a row.

But this time in the plan. So for the Kings, it's unfortunate that they're in this position, monk out for the year, hurt her out. that's, I mean, it's just unfortunate the way, you know, they could, they might not even make the playoffs. They might not. And, you know, we'll see. There's still a handful of games left. There's still only two games back from the five seed,

but they're also only a half game up on the nine. And two games up, by the way, only on the 10 with the Warriors. Well, the Warriors, it was a big statement tonight. Huge. They had to win this game. They talked about it. It's over. And then they went in and secured their spot to where they're going to be able to play in the play at 133 to 110 over Houston.

And it was a turn back to clock night with the splash brothers. It really was. Clay, 29 points, 11 for 15. Yeah, 11 for 15, 7 for 11 from 3. So cool. You still got it in him every once in a while, huh? I know, yep. you know and then they've got that that that block dream on had the other night on gafford at the

rim after rotating on kairi driving into the paint that block was unbelievable unbelievable dream on can still be an elite defender as well you can't you can't you can't like count out the warriors when they have draymond still able to do that on defense and steps still able to have massive nights on offense despite that being the 10th seed they had that four-point loss against Minnesota on the 24th of March. And that was like the beginning of a road trip. And so then they lost that game by four against Minnesota. Then they went at Miami win, at Orlando, win, at Charlotte, win, at San Antonio,

win, at Dallas this on Tuesday, when, and then tonight at Houston, when. and then tomorrow night they play again at Dallas. I mean, this has been, this has been a run, and this has not been against a bunch of bad teams. This has been on the road, and they have oddly, and Steve Kerr has no answers for why they have been so much better on the road that they have been at home.

But they have been. They've been the road warriors, as it were. And, you know, it felt so many times throughout this where it's like, is it too little too late? Why are they still talking about trying to develop habits and all this stuff, but they have rallied it together to now where Steve Kerr,

I thought the most confident he has been all year. And he's like, love the way we're playing, love the things we're doing. We've been locked in defensively. The group has really come together. And I'm just hoping that we can play our waves into the playoffs because I think if we can, we can do some damage. So he's feeling,

he's riding high right now and that was certainly a big statement tonight to fend off Houston completely and really end that conversation and you got to give Steve Kerr credit as well he has found the right rotations here trace Jackson Davis empowering him in the starting lineup Jackson Davis has been tremendous off the bench I think you're Chris Paul he's found the right role for him Moses Moody getting opportunity with comminga out right now Moody is shooting the heck out of the ball. He's playing good defense. Pods continues to beat.

There's a major, major positive guy coming off the bench getting 20 plus minutes per game. Steve Kerr has effectively found a good mix of vets and youth empowering them. And earlier in the year, I ripped Steve Kerr how he wasn't playing the young guys, how he was being too political for the veterans by not diminishing their roles and all that. while he's finally given Trace Jackson Davis the keys over Kibon Looney. He's given these young guys opportunities, and the veterans in that locker room have embraced them as well. So credit to Steve Kerr for finding the right mix, giving his team a shot.

And we'll see how it develops over the course of the year. It'll be very interesting to see when commingo returns, because comminga's been very good. What do you do with the starting five? How are you going to restructure things? Because right now these guys are playing really good. Yeah, this is going to be unpopular. This is going to be unpopular order. I'm about to tell you.

Caminga is really good. And everybody loves comminga. And Caminga has been very good. Individually. Individually, he is very good. But you think the team's better without him? I think that ball moves and I think they've got better spacing. I think they should bring cominga off the bench.

But he should be the backup to Dremont, essentially. The next great assist, Jonathan Caming. has will be the first great assist Jonathan Kaminga has. You have never seen a Jonathan Kaminga assist highlight in your life. It's never happened. It's never happened.

He also shoots 30% from three. He does not have to be honored. He does not have to be honored. And when you've got a bunch of guys that can't create their own shot, again, he individually brings an athleticism. I get the stuff that he brings to the table.

It's just the way they function as a team. have to set up each other. Curry's the only guy. And then Camingo is the other one that like, it's like throw the ball and maybe he could go and create his own shot. They don't have a bunch of shot creation guys on that team. What they do have is a bunch of connective guys that can set each other up and then revolve around this two man Curry,

Draymond thing that's been going forever with, you know, Clay is the kickout. And I don't know. Like I do think that it's tough to. whittle him back into the mix, especially as a starter. I think it's tough to whittle him back into the mix as a starter.

When you found this groove with what you've got going. I'd like to see them keep Jackson Davis in the starting five. I really, I've loved him since college. I love him even more now. He's a perfect fit with that team.

He adds verticality. He adds rebounding. I don't think you can bench him. I think he's very important to that starting five and he looks perfect next to Draymond Green. they've actually even gotten some Wiggins performances I know Wiggins has been much better lately

right he's looking more like Andrew Wiggins I mean I don't know I think it's hard I think it's hard if you because when they were doing the Thompson off the bench thing too Kev they had one guy that could really shoot the ball now he can shoot it from half court but they have one guy that could like shoot the ball

who else are you honoring the rest of them you were just like go ahead shoot it. You know? You watch something like tonight, or you watch some of these things recently? And it's like, damn, man. Every once a while,

you'll be watching it, you'll be like, Curry, Clay, and Draymond, same as it ever was. Mm-hmm. And it's like you got two other guys and you can pick the two. What are the two other ones

that fit the best? I think I would just focus on that and write it out. Seriously. Whatever it takes me, takes me, because it's probably the last run. One quick thought related to, this playoff race here.

Because with the Warriors right now, they're the 10 seed, but they're only a game and a half back from the Lakers for the 9, and they're only two games back from the Kings for the 8 seat, right? With Sacramento, if they get out of the play and they'll get smoked

in the first round. They will get smoked, okay? So for the Kings, their first round pick goes to the Hawks. It's top 14 protected. for the Kings, are you actually better off missing the playoffs here and getting like the 12th, 13th pick in the draft? You get a lottery pick.

Any year where there's a lot of good role players, guys that you can add to this existing core you have, if you're the Kings, to me, I think at this point, you're better off missing the playoffs. And I'm sure there will be a lot of Kings fans, you know, Deuce and Moe might be in my mentions, they might be mad at me. But to me, if I'm a Kings fan right now, I'm saying a step back this year, missing the playoffs is more beneficial for us going forward into the future.

It gives us a better trade asset. It gives us a better option to draft the player, potentially if we keep it, to add to this core. To me, that's the better path for the Kings, rather than losing your first round pick to the Hawks for the herder trade, and then you lose out on that asset. what do you think i would never punt on a season but like what's the benefit is my point you never know the way this stuff is going to play out you could say they're going to get their ass kick if anthony edwards

twist his ankle in game one it's a different world but but but chris i mean you play it out you lost you lost you play to win don't give a shit about the 12th pick and a shit draft you you lot i know but it's a I don't think it's a shit draft in terms of the fact that... It is a shit draft. How many times when we talked about this, Chris?

For the Kings, a team where you have Fox, you have some bonus, you have some core pieces, adding another core piece. The draft is a solid draft for a team like the Kings. It's a solid draft for your Grizzlies. I would rather make the playoffs than get... And lose your pick. I'm going to lose my pick at some point anyway, Ken?

Yeah, I know. Then it's top 12 protected. next year, then it's top 10 protected the year after that. So you're going to lose one of them eventually. But my point is that could it actually be more beneficial for you to keep it this year? I think it could be. And when you look at the guys that could be available in that range, it could be more beneficial this year. All right.

I am always trying to win. End of story. Except, of course, not when it comes to my idea of choosing your playoff opponent, because then you get these teams like SGA resting for the thunder. you know, all these top seeds resting their guys because there's no reason to win right now. I tell you this. You know,

there would be reason to win and all these games would matter significantly more if Adam Silver listen to me and let the top seeds choose their playoff opponents. And all by the way, that would also make the games at the bottom more important because then the heat wouldn't want to be a playing team even more so because you'd want to get a top four seed.

Because right now it's like, okay, whatever. Like the standings are the standings. But if you, now if you look at the, if you, if you, did let the top seats choose their opponent, the heat would be eventually selected potentially into a situation where it's a less than ideal opponent for you in the first time. You want to avoid that. You want to choose your own destiny.

It's always about winning if you have that incentive at the top. It's always about winning. I know who super loves your idea. And that's Celtics fans right now. Oh, I'm sure they do. And that's Minnesota and Oklahoma City fans. Oh, yeah, I know. All the top seats.

Hey, I wanted to get on board last year with the Grizzlies drew the Lakers. Damn, let us pick. I know, I know. Let us pick somebody different than this. It sucks. I think Dylan Brooks would have come out and said Lakers. He would have, he would have gone full.

How did he do tonight? He would have gone full Leroy Jenkins and said, we're taking the Lakers, made the pick for on behalf of the franchise. How do he do tonight? Oh, clean three for nine minus 22. Oh, worst plus minus on the team. You don't say.

That's crazy. Anyways, before we get out of here, I have to ask you about this NBA draft. I saw your draft board. Okay. What did you think? Kevin O. Convinced by the NCAA tournament.

So we talked a lot about how the tournament can drastically affect draft stock. And again, you know, years ago, I sat with Mike Conley, who ended up going fourth in a draft because his team played against Florida in the national championship game. And if you remember,

you might be too young, but when Ohio State with Conley and Odin went on that run, the very beginning of the tournament, Ron Lewis, a guy, they still show it every time March Madness is coming around. There's like a late,

Conley pushes it up, drops it off to Ron Lewis. Ron Lewis hits this three against Xavier. They move on. The rest of the story is they go to the final four, then they go to the title game. Mike Conley never in his life considered going to the NBA draft.

At the beginning of that tournament and prior to that Xavier game, no one had Mike Conley as a draft, like, much less a top 13, 10 guy in the in the draft. And then they went to the title game. And of course, his teammate Greg Oden went number one. And Mike Conley went number four. and it's always that I remember talking to him many times. He's like, I've thought about it so many times.

It's that sliding door moment. If Ron Lewis doesn't hit that shot, Mike Conley is playing his sophomore year at Ohio State. Ron Lewis hit that shot, and next thing you know, Mike Connolly's going fourth in the NBA draft. So this is nothing new. That's back in 2007, 2008. It feels to me like Klingin is the big. biggest benefactor. Is that fair? You've got him in the top five. I see mocks with him in the top five. Everybody knew who Donovan Klingin was.

Gavoni moved him up to three. I moved him up to three. No ceilings. A bunch of drafts websites, evaluators have moved him up. Here's the thing. There's a difference between your personal big board and your mock drafts. Because if you look at the teams with top 10 draft odds right now, there are very few of them that you say need a center. Go up and down. Detroit, they have Durran, they don't really need a center. Washington, they could use a little bit of everything. Charlotte, they have Mark Williams. San Antonio has Victor Wenban Yama. You could make the argument that Wembe and

Klingan could coexist, you know, Wembe at the four. You could also argue against that, considering how poorly Collins and Wembe have gone. Portland is invested in Aiton. Toronto just re-signed Pertle. Memphis, they need a center. Utah has Kessler. They have a bunch of guys in that front court. Marketing, I can't imagine them drafted in Kling in Houston. Invested in Schengun, granted that pick would be swapped if it did move up, unlikely to.

Atlanta could use the center. But that really leaves Memphis. But this is always the mistake, though, Kevin. If he's great, you take him regardless of what you have on your roster. But he's more likely, like, look, the guys that were going to go one, two, three this year would normally go. seven, 10, 12 and of some of the more recent draft classes that we've seen, including Klingin.

Like, I really like Klingin. I move Klingin up because I think in a draft with so much uncertainty throughout, including at the top, Klingin is the guy that provides you a foundation where he can be a great room protector, he can be a great rebounder, he can be a great at-room finisher and screener

and connector on offense with his passing. And then on top of that, if he continues developing his post-game, way better on the post as a sophomore than he was as a freshman, then maybe he provides you a go-to scoring. If he continues developing as a shooter potentially, he moved from 51% at the line to 57%. He's a guy who shot threes in high school and didn't shoot them well, but there are some scouts around the league that think he can become a competent shooter that he has a natural touch that is just going to need a tweak of mechanics. Maybe he offers you more on offense. So I think

with Klingin, he offers a high floor. And then there's also that theoretical ceiling that unlikely, but there's a chance. And so I think that's where I feel he deserves to move up. I also move Dalton Connect up from Tennessee for similar reasons. Connect might be 23 years old. Yes, he's older. And there's always concern there. If you look at the history of guys, the last 10, 15 years that are 23 years old drafted in the first round. It's a, not a great history, but the guys who have succeeded are typically guys who are shooters. Buddy Heald and Cam Johnson were 23-year-old first-round draft picks. Buddy Healed was 30.

Might have been. But Connect, 23 or 30, Connect will come in as a rookie and provide you great off-ball movement, cutting, shooting off the catch, off of handoffs. He can handle the ball a little bit, provide more than just three-point shooting. I think he has a high floor, and then if the go-to scoring develops, in the same way that it did at Tennessee, then you get a long-time NBA player who's going to be one of your top two-three

scoring options on your team. So regardless of age, I think he provides that safety for certain teams that might want to lean towards safe rather than, you know, mystery box. What are we going to get from this guy? Zachary Risesche, what is he going to be?

You know, like some of these guys that are going to be drafted up top, but you don't know what they're going to be. So I think maybe a little bit of safe selections in the top 10, but we'll end up seeing where those guys actually fall considering team needs and priorities. So Clingon's already very high.

I got to ask you about these two others because the final four is coming up this weekend. Are you going? I will be going. I'm leaving tomorrow. I'm leaving the less than 12 hours. So I guess here's the two scenarios. Mark Sears does unbelievable against Yukon.

And so Mark Sears then moves up even higher or somebody like that. The other one is, what if Zach Eadie demolishes NC State and then demolishes Klingin on Monday? What's the highest you could see Eidie going? I think if Eadie did that, like Purdue wins at all, you're going to see a lot of people catching up with Gavoni who has him in the lottery.

I have E.D. ranks 17th, I believe, on my board 18th or 19th. But DuGvone has him in the lottery right now. And I was texting with a draft evaluator recently about that because I saw, because I got like some messages from people saying, how can you have E. He ranks so high. Are you crazy? Like, you guys are nuts.

He doesn't have a chance in the NBA. I got some emails about it, some text messages about it. And I'm like, I feel like we're watching a different guy. He's gotten way better this past year. I didn't like Edy that much last year as an NBA prospect. Nobody did. That's why he did back at school. I know.

I think he's a lot better this year defensively. He is more mobile. Yes, he's not going to be switching screens. He's going to be a drop guy. But if you're drafting Eadie, you're drafting Eadie feeling like he's a great fit for your team. And if you're drafting based off of. fit. I would think in theory that means it is beneficial

for him for his development in terms of covering for some of those weaknesses that people are so worried about. Rather than, like, it's like we're just talking about, oh, he's slow-footed. He can't shoot yet. Instead of the stuff that he does really well, which is inhale rebounds around the rim, dunk everything when he catches the ball inside, set strong screens, solid

passer. He's also got some dog at him. Yeah, I know. He's tough. And his teammates love him. Yeah. That block he had on Connect, man. I mean, I know people like, I tweeted out saying, oh, what a block by Eadie on Connect. The people were like, he should block.

Yeah, he should block and he said it before. But I was like, yeah, but like, look at how far he outreached his arms. Yeah. Like there's certain moments in games where Eadie just doesn't try to block shots because he's trying to avoid foul trouble. But then there's the moments where you see him go for blocks. You're like, hmm, hmm, maybe, maybe. maybe there's something there.

It would be crazy to me, though. If they, you know, they're, they're the favorite, so they're suspected to be NC State and Yukon is the favorite. So it would be a collision course with the guy that everybody has moved up to the top five clinging. Oh, man, I hope it happens. Vers this whole E.D thing. I want a big man battle for the ages.

I want it. I want it. I mean, I know it would be super cool to see NC State. and DJ Burns move on or it has to be cool to see Mark Sears drop 45 points against Yukon and move on. That would be great. I'd be very entertaining, but purely from a draft evaluation standpoint, I want Klingan versus Eden.

It would be awesome. Battle of the Biggs. One quick little draft story that you were going to love. Okay, so several weeks ago, when we first started talking about the NBA draft, I broached a conversation with you and I said, hey, who should I keep a little bit? out for this is still when the regular season was going on before the conference tournament and you were going down your draft list and you missed matches the different names jacobby walter baylor check out this guy check out this guy and he said but i've got a guy you

are going to love you said i know the kind of players you love and go watch devon carter at providence and i did i took that very seriously and i went and watched devon carter at providence And you and I have been together for, what, eight seasons now? You know me, and you knew exactly who I would love. And my God, I love him. And I think he is low on every board. There is zero chance, zero, that there are 13, 12, 10 better guys than him. There's just no chance.

and so I've already got this opinion of him I had fallen in love per your recommendation you sent me down this path it would be like if you like you know if I was young again and then you said hey I think you might like this girl and then I just fell head over heels right next thing you know I want to marry her

so I'm all in and there I am at the Grizzly game a week ago and I've forgotten to tell you this and I'm sitting there before the game and I'm talking to somebody there about the draft. And they're like, so what do you think about this guy? What do you think about this guy?

Who do you not like? All this kind of stuff. And they're like, what do you think about AC's kid? And I was like, what? And they're like, you watch AC's kid? And I was like, who is AC's kid? Anthony Carter. He's Taylor Jenkins' lead assistant.

He was the heat assistant. He was the Heat assistant coach for years. I had no idea that the guy that I had watched and fallen in love with is Anthony Carter's kid. I didn't know when they said that, they were like, do you like AC's kid? I was like, who is AC's kid? And they're like, Devin Carter? And I'm like, hold the phone. What?

I mean, they don't, look, for anybody that has not seen Devin Carter, Devin Carter's got like, he looks like the rapper, us. He's got the big, long, flowing hair that he pulls back at a pony. He does not look like Anthony Carter. Nothing. It looks nothing like Anthony Carter. And so when they said that, they were like, do you like AC's kid?

I was like, I, I'm sorry. I didn't know Anthony had a, I didn't know he had a kid in this draft. And they're like, his name's Devin Carter, plays for Providence. And I'm like, shut up. That's awesome. They're like, yeah, that's his kid. That's so good. You know what's crazy is it happened a couple of years ago, obviously,

but we all knew. So then I start telling people around the office. I'm like, did you know that AC's kid is that kid at Providence? And they're like, what? Like nobody knew. Whereas like a couple years ago, Nilele Ivy, who is now the head coach at Notre Dame, Women's, everybody knew her son was Jaden Ivy at Purdue. Like, it was a thing.

all year. I had not even heard ever that Devin Carter was Anthony's kid that was playing at Providence, but I love him. And now I love him even more, because his dad's awesome. And his dad is

in large part responsible to turning Gigi Jackson awesome. He taught G.G. Jackson, how to shoot. Who knows? You guys could draft DeVitt Carter. He'll be in position to do it. I can't imagine positional, you know, fit-wise with John, smart,

and Bain and all that. But Devin Carter is the type of guy who could fit on any team no matter what you ask him to do. It doesn't matter. His dad was a undrafted free agent that, what, I think he had a 14-year career or something crazy like that. And Devin Carter inherited that dog in him. You know what he's made of. Yep, exactly.

Yeah. You know what he's made of. Yeah. Crazy story, though, huh? I got Devin Carter ranked 14. Sometimes I look at that. I'm like, damn, like, how do I get him higher? But there's certain guys because of age

You might have them ranked lower Than some of the younger guys Who do you just take a swing at So it makes the draft top Like every year Yeah, here's what I know, Kiv Don't overthink this Hey, led the Big Easton scoring

Third in rebounding 38% from three And three steals and blocks a game His defense is awesome You can't overthink this stuff, man I know The defense and rebounding I know

Dribble pass shoot Like, there's nothing he doesn't do well. I know. So that's a no fail. In a draft of a bunch of whatever's, he's a no fail. And now I know that his dad's an NBA assistant coach. The first edition, a first player on your annual prospects who will not fail, Devin Carter. Well, I mean, come on, the Kentucky guards aren't going to fail either.

And that's just like, you could just close your eyes every year. Yeah. If they're first round talent, so I'm not talking about Tyler Ulyss or Andrew Harrison or any of those guys. Their first round talent, not Diolo, not, you know, yeah. I don't know if there's one that was a first round talent. Maybe Ty, Ty, Washington. I think you went in the second round, even. Like they've just been the safest bets in the world, you know.

I did like your little, uh, I got, actually, it's. some Kentucky friends, you had had Reed Shepard to the Grizzlies in your mock draft, and they were sending me that because they loved, A, they loved the idea that Reed Cheper could be a grizzly, and B, they loved the shot that you took at Calipari. I mean, Taylor Jenkins coach's circles around him. That one went over well. All right, Kevin, it is always a pleasure. Thank you to our executive producer, Jesse Lopez, as always, and I will talk to you next week.

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