The Mismatch - How the Suns are Maintaining Success, Laker Woes, and the Continuing Uncertainty With Ben Simmons

Episode Date: January 21, 2022

We’re just past the halfway point of the NBA season and the Suns have yet to hit double-digit losses, so Verno and KOC detail how Phoenix has been able to maintain its success this season (01:47). After the Warriors lost to a banged-up Pacers squad, the guys discuss the recent issues facing Steph and the rest of the team (14:03). The Lakers have had several struggles this season, but the latest controversy revolves around head coach Frank Vogel (24:09). Will he remain the Lakers head coach? They also debate whether Russell Westbrook can adjust his game to fit with LeBron (32:39). Lastly, they discuss whether Ben Simmons could get traded to the Kings before debating whether Simmons should return at all to the 76ers if he remains with the team (48:36). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Top MMA voices, Ariel Hohani, Chuck Mindenhall, and Pizzie Carroll are live on the Spotify Greenroom app for every major MMA card with The Ringer MMA show. Hear the guys react to Wayans in real time and find out what they think of the fights the moment the final card ends. Plus, when breaking MMA news happens, they'll be live to talk to you about it. And if you miss the Green Room show, you can hear it as a podcast anytime on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to The Misfatch.

I'm Chris Varnan. Join me as he does every Friday from The Ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, aka Kevin O'Bomber, Kevin O Concert, Kevin O Conflict, Kevin O Candyland, Kevin O Camera, Kevin O Climmer, Kevin O Bomba, Kevin. Burdow, how are you doing this Friday morning? What's going on, man? I'm doing well. We've got a lot to get to. There was a very interesting game that took place last night. We'll cover some of the games that took place on Thursday night, one of which was the Phoenix Suns getting a very good win against a red hot Mavericks team. And now, Kevin, we look up and they have a three and a half game lead in the Western Conference. They are the only team that is without double digit losses. And it feels like

this was one of those games that they knew they were going to be playing a team that had been red hot. They came in with extreme focus. And while so many other teams are dealing with all kinds the problems, whether it's guys going on safety protocols, whether it's guys getting injured. The sons have kept on trucking, despite what would have been, you would have thought, a challenging first half of the season given the controversy that surrounded them at the beginning of the season with the story about their owner. And yet here we are past the midway point of the season. and they don't yet have double-digit losses.

This was super impressive because that Mavs team had really been humming along, and it felt like a bit of a statement and maybe a preview of a playoff series that we may be seeing in the second round this year. The Pacers, the past couple of days, did a nice favor for the Sons. They beat the Lakers, and they beat the Warriors, which we'll talk about later, helps, especially that game last night, extend Phoenix's lead. They face Indiana tomorrow. I would expect Phoenix is also going to smack Indiana

because they're smacking everybody right now. That's the reward for Indiana. You win two big games. Then you face the Phoenix Suns. Good luck to you because with Phoenix hair, man, they're even better than the last season. I mean, we've talked about it early in the year. This team is just playing at a higher level than they were

even during their finals run. Devin Booker, dude, this guy is, something else, isn't he, man? Oh, he's been fantastic. And here's a thing, though, Kev, we know how many times playoff games can come down to, you know, the last possessions of the game. And

one of the things that is worth noticing, and this has been true of Chris Paul teams throughout his career, but especially with this one, and you saw it last night, when they needed to get stops, they could just shut the water off. I think the Mavs went like three of ten.

The Suns forced four turnovers and they're able to salt that game away. This was last night the 18th clutch game for the season for the Suns. Okay. So that's within five points with less than five minutes left to play. They are now 15 and three in those games. They shoot 59% in the clutch and have an astounding. plus 42.7 net rating in clutch minutes. 42.7.

It says simply put, the destroyed teams when the game is on the line, and they closed that game out last night with a 22 to 6 run against the Mavericks. I mean, Kev, 15 and 3 shooting 52% from the field and a plus 42.7. I mean, you're just, you're in this. disaster land if you get in a close game with these guys. You better be up big. I mean, like you said, it's when you have those guys at the end of the game, like a Devin Booker, Chris Ball hits that sidestep three-pointer to move it from, I think,

two points to five points, essentially just clinching the game in the final minute. And also, I just think, like, with Phoenix, one of the key reasons all of last season as we talk about is the buy-in that this group has, the understanding of who has what role, and which player has certain responsibilities. I think there are certain times in NBA history, or in sports history in general, like a team makes a long playoff run. The next year, guys start button heads.

People want a bigger role. They want more responsibility. This team doesn't have, like, even an ounce of that. It's the same thing as last year, except better in terms of people embracing what their responsibilities are in the team. And I feel like one of the best examples of that recently is the fact that they haven't had DeAndre Aten for,

I think, all but four games. the last month-ish. He played four games, and now he's missed the last two. And Javelle McGee, just sliding into that starting role, taking on increased minutes, and the team just keeps on ticking. And I think that speaks to the amount of chemistry this team has on the court, off the court that you can survive without a D'Andre. And it also just speaks to the simple talent level, because McGee is something that they missed

last year, a backup big. Javelle Gaggie is a pretty good rotation player. He's turned himself into that in the roles that he has. And with this son's team, man, when you have Chris Paul getting 11 assists with no turnovers again, as we've seen him do for over a decade now, this team is going to win a lot of those close games. And McGee, with that length, I mean, you always have to project ahead. Obviously, you want to get out of the Western conference, and you're going to have to face some pretty good bigs. But most importantly, you think about the matchup if it were to happen again with Yon.

and how they were, I mean, Aiton was by himself. There's nobody else. The only other guy they had was Frank, and that's of no consequence, you know, going up, a knife to a gunfight stuff, and they weren't playing Jaylen Smith at all, right? And he's another one that's been plugged in and has been able to contribute, Kev. And I think you made a really good point about guys understanding the pecking order, of the team and playing within that because so many good teams can get ripped up. And I just, I think about that in terms of, I hear about all these Jeremy Grant deals

every day, right? Yeah, sure. So that's the difference, right? McKell Bridges, McCle Bridges, could probably go to Detroit and average 20-something points a game. Oh, yeah, totally. But he wants to win. And that is, and they had a chance, and that's the hard part. And I'm not trying to bang on Jeremy Grant for this, right?

But Jeremy Grant probably could have been a part of a team that makes an NBA finals. Could have stayed with Denver for a little bit less money, one less year on the contracts, and he could have stayed with the Nuggets. He could have, and he would not have had his bigger role, but he would have had a chance at a title. You know what I mean? Like, they could really use him there now, right? And in some ways, it's, you know, like, you get it. I mean, it's all, you know, he wanted to fulfill something that he felt like Grant,

know, he could do personally with the opportunity. And he's done a great job. You know, the last year and a half with the Pistons, he stepped his game up, he showed he can be more of a go-to-score. And if he gets traded, you hope he finds himself in a situation where he can be like McKell Bridges. And Bridges, I think, really just is that he's kind of a construct in the NBA. He's the type of three-and-d wing that you want. Isn't he? Because with Bridges, you know what you're getting defensive way every single night. You're getting a guy who can lock down on ball who's focused and attentive off the ball. And then offensively, he'll hit his threes, he'll attack his closeouts, he'll play hard, he'll make the right pass. But he can do like a little bit off the dribble. Like you said,

Bridges could average 20 on a bad team if he was given those shots. But for Phoenix, he can score 20 on those nights that he has a great matchup or the ball just happens to find him that often. or sometimes like the, you know, the ball finds you for on-ball opportunities, not just attacking a closeout. And Bridges has shown that he can do a little bit more of that increasing each year. It's not its primary role, but at 25 years old, you're in a situation now where it's about championships and winning at the highest level. Maybe when Bridges is 30, Phoenix will be able to give him those chances.

Maybe by then he'll be ready to take it or he'll go somewhere else. But for now, like this team is just all about winning. and I think the quote But McCle Bridges That's the thing though Kev I think he's happy being what he's being

And that's gonna lead To a very long Very productive NBA career Right Like there's stars A lot of winning A lot of winning

Yeah there's stars And there's role players And he is a great Not good Great role player And when you decide You know Hell

Trevor Oriza still has a job, Kevin. You know what I mean? You figure out, and I think that Bridges, I think he knows. You know, he fit in well with that, that Philanova team that was so great, right? It wasn't him every night. It was Devenchenzo that shined in the tournament.

You can't say no to Zaire Smith, though. Zaire Smith, how could you say no to him? I know, I know, but like... So athletic. That's tough. I'm a little surprised Zaire Smith. Look, sometimes players busts. Zaire Smith's playing only 13 games in his career, only 13 games.

That's shocking to me. That's really shocking. He's still only 22 years old, Chris. I thought, I actually thought that I was going to be watching him this year in South Haven, Mississippi, playing the G League, because he was added. He was added to the bubble team. and I thought that that was maybe just a, you know, a sign of goodwill. Like, hey, we're adding you to the bubble team even though you can't play

with the intent of watching him later down the road. But, I mean, he was never added to this roster either. So I don't know. I don't know if he's playing or not. I know that that was the last I heard of him. Yeah, I don't think he is. I just pulled up his numbers. And yeah, the last team he was with was.

the Memphis Hustle. They deactivated him February 19th last year. And not on a team right now. I don't know. It's too bad. Back to what you're saying about Booker. Yeah. But meanwhile,

like with the Suns do, like they're just continuing to roll. And the quote last night just relates to what we're talking about. David Booker said, I remember last year when a team would try to double one of me or Chris Paul and our competitive spirit comes out like, all right, all right,

you're going to double me. It just makes the game easier because we all trust each other to that degree. And I really think that's what this team has. I think that's a simple quote that sums it up. It's what your eyeballs see, that this team just has trust in each other. And they fully embrace what their responsibilities are.

And Monty Williams is a great coach. Chris Paul is a sensational leader on and off the court. I mean, this is just a complete team. And I think we're at a point right now where for a long time, year i've said that the warriors have become the favorite in the west i i think that might like the warriors still in a postseason series with drayron and clay and step i don't know man like it's really close between this phoenix team and golden state in the western conference but one thing's clear though they they're they're on their own though those two do you agree there with those two

yeah i mean i've mentioned it though many times that uh phoenix is the best team that i have seen out of the Western Conference, I thought, this year. Best team, capital, capital team, you know, T, E-A-M. That ability to completely turn the water off down the stretch is something that they possess. That's why they're plus 43 in clutch situations. You just get into these games where they just decide you're not going to score and you watch it. That Mavs team had been great recently. They're three of ten, four turnovers.

down the stretch can't score. You know what I mean? And then Phoenix gets where they want on offense too, and the Dallas defense has been top 10 this season. Yeah, that's a different deal. And the other thing is this, and we do need to mention, it's tough without Dremont. That was just a bizarre loss last night for the Warriors.

16 and a half. Strange game. 16 and a half point favorites. The Pacers are without their top four leading scorers. Sabonis is out. LaVerd is out. Brogden's out. Obviously, Turner's been out. And they're able to win this game against the Warriors. The Warriors have been hit or miss since Draymond has been out of the lineup. They have gotten Clayback, but it has not been a honeymoon. It's not been a honeymoon. Let's just say Clay is having a difficult time finding his bearings. And you hope as time goes on for his sake, I think just fitting back in the mix, getting back in on an NBA court, having a reduced amount of minutes when you're coming back in. I think it's all probably been hard for him to get into rhythm and get to playing basketball again. It's going to take a little while because look, you look at his numbers and it is nowhere near the Clay Thompson that we are used to.

Also nowhere near what we're used to. and this has flown under the radar because the record is so outstanding. Curry's field goal percentage is way down, Kev. He's at 42% right now. I mean, this has been a 50, 40-90 guy. This has been almost always above 45%.

I mean, it's been a pretty big drop this year. So he's shooting 40. You know, his three-pointers dropped off too. He's at 38.5% which is, oh, so, So low for Steph. No, I know, but these are career lows. Yeah, which is, you know, it could go down as his first time minus his injury season in 2019 that he shoots below 40% from three.

But he's also shooting a nearly 13 per game. Right. And the types of shots that he's taking it are absurd sometime because he needs to take them for their offense, especially without Dream on out there. We talked about, we got into a lot on Tuesday show with, you know, them not having Dreamline Green and the importance. horn to Draymont. So we don't want to repeat that necessarily.

The one thing that I was shocked by, I was at a bar last night watching the end of that game with some friends. And like we all screamed out loud when Juan Tascano Anderson's driving down the lane for the layup when he's taking threes in overtime. We're like, get the ball to Steph, get the ball to Clay. You know, it's like kicking out. Jay, she's kicking out. What are you doing?

It's a strange finish of the game. I understand like driving. You want to be a great. aggressive, but you get Steph Curry and Clay Thompson. Come on! What are you doing? And they were like one for 18 combined, Wiggins, Clay, and Pool. I mean, like, it's hard to win games when only Steph is hitting threes, six for 16 last night. Like, you're not going to win a lot of games.

Well, and as we've talked about, and we don't need to cover it again, he is the creation. Yeah, Draymond is their point card. You have a lot of guys that need their shot created for them. you know, on that team. He's just so important, man. They don't set up the other guys, right? You don't see those guys driving a dishing. You don't see those guys run a pick and roll as much.

You don't see those guys, you know, swinging it over to the corner. You know, just so much is central to what he brings to the table. And that's the thing. We talked about the back thing. It's scary, Kiv. You know, I would have much rather it had a leg that is a leg injury. but a leg that hurts because of a back injury, it just,

anytime I hear the word back, it scares me. Yeah, I don't, I don't like hearing about back injuries. Those are scary. But I don't know, man,

that Pacers team, though, getting back-to-back wins against the Lakers and the Warriors, just a weird, weird couple of days for them when they've struggled this season. They're like you said,

they do it without their best players. Like, yeah, just a holiday hit, The game tying three down the stretch. It's just a weird game. Duarte had 27 and he wasn't even in there at certain points. I mean, that is maybe the most anonymous starting lineup last night.

And I know the Nets have rolled out some wild ones with Kessler Edwards and the boys and David Duke Jr. And whoever, but I mean, that one is relatively anonymous. I mean, I don't know. any of those guys get recognized walking down a busy street without their jersey on really there's just no level of fame you know yeah i mean like keeper sykes you know yeah yeah no it's and it's the type of thing where this is how you make your name known with games like that on national tv over the course of time like then then keeper sykes and just in holiday and all these guys they become more of known names i mean that's how it happens keeper keper sykes busting iguadala's ass was

not a good look. Not a great look for Iggy. Might be a little past time. Good locker room guy. I'm not sure how much you can contribute to the cause anymore if Kiefer Sykes is busting your ass. Do you feel

any more strongly or different about the need for a move for Golden State? Any different about that? I think that yes. This has not been a team that has been encouraged to make off-season moves,

or I mean, in-season moves. That being said, I think there is a group of these teams that are in win-now mode, that with this thing's so open, you can make the case that you have a legitimate shot at the championship. And so when you have one of the best players in the world, and you want to best equip to take advantage around that. I mean, this has been the ongoing discussion regarding what's going on in Philly with Mbid.

It's what's going on with Yokic in Denver, just trying to give him some level of relief. You've got a minor move with the Bryn Forbes thing, and maybe you can do something else. But I think any time that you've got one of the, you know, an MVP caliber, one of the best players in the world, You're trying to augment it. And the best case scenario is that you get somebody that takes you over the hump and that you get help you win a title. I mean, and while his numbers were not something that you would write home about, that acquisition of PJ Tucker was big for Milwaukee last year. Right? Like it's not a, it's not a star move, but it's a periphery move that makes a big difference.

because when push came to shove and you're in big games, this guy's playing a lot of minutes for you and has real value. And so I think, you know, sometimes when we talk about moves, they don't always have to be major, but if you look at your team right now and you say, all right, as currently constructed,

I've got one of the best players in the world, and I can't win a title with what I've got, then I always think you should try to, you know, you should try to improve around that guy. Because you only get, So many chances, right? Especially when your guy's healthy.

We know how many times do you acquire a guy and then like it gets ripped away from you because they're not healthy? You think the Lakers thought that they're going to be, maybe they should have, but they don't have AD. So they got no chance last year. Kauai goes out. They got no chance once Kauai gets out. This stuff is so fleeting. And if you get a, if you got a healthy season going out of one of the best five to ten players, in the world, I'm always build the best possible thing you can around them right now,

because you never know. Yeah, no doubt about it. No doubt about it. I also think Steve Kerr needs to be better, too. I mean, like, it's a little thing, but it's a big thing. Where is Gary Payton the second on that possession where Justin Holiday ties the game from three? I mean, Steph Curry is a good defender.

Gary Payton is a great defender. Gary Payton probably does not lose Justin Holliday. on a simple cut move to get open for three after the inbound pass. Like, Steph just let him get open. And that was a mistake by Steph that I'm sure he's angry about. But, like, he gave just an holiday space to launch a three-pointer. I don't think Gary Peyton does that. And Kerr has to have him in the game there.

He has to have him in for probably all of overtime, not just some of it. Just some, you know, questionable decisions during this one regular season game, but it's not the first time we've seen Kerr make some head-scratching choices. In fairness, I'm not giving him a pass, but it's not like he's guarding Devin Booker. I mean, he probably wasn't thinking, oh, my God, I can't let Justin Holliday get open. I mean, Eric calls Justin Holliday. I mean, if your criticism of Curry is, how did he let, how did he not have his best defender in on Justin Holliday? I think you're a little bit of a breach, Kev, I'm sorry.

But, but, but, but, but Holliday, dude, but here's the thing, though. Listen, no, I disagree with you. The Pacers need three points, and they get a bunch of guys who a casual fan doesn't know on the court. Just a Holliday shoots nearly 40% from three on like seven attempts per game. Who's going to take the shot? Probably Holliday or Duarte. Or some guy that you didn't even know was in the NBA. Yes.

Well, that might be the case. But with Holiday, I don't know. At the least, you're going to have Gary Pee and. second out there. That dude's a The truth is, you shouldn't be worried about who's defending on the last position against the Pacers without their four best scorers. It shouldn't even be a thing.

That's a lack of focus. If you want to bag him for not having his team ready to go as a 16 and a half point favorite, they dicked around and they got caught. They played with their food. They played with their food. Frank Vogel's in the crosshairs in a big way, Kev, since we

last spoke. You'd think You think Frank Vogel is the coach next episode we do? I have no freaking idea, man. I don't know. I don't know. It's such a weird. If they lost to Orlando tonight, you even not make. Yeah, probably.

I mean, but what a weird situation that was Wednesday night where he benches Russell Westbroke the last four minutes. And that after the game, you get Dave McMedeman releasing a story saying Russell's benched the final. straw was because he sent Lavert to his right when they wanted him to go left, even though as Caitlin Cooper, a great NBA analyst put on Twitter, Levert likes to go left more. So either the scutterer report was wrong or something's weird there. Then you got all these reports coming out after the game from Chris Haynes and others. Vogel's job is not in

jeopardy tonight. It's just like, we're getting all these updates and you know it's inevitable. It's just a matter of when that they've pulled. the plug on Vogle. Is it by our next show on Tuesday? I don't know. But it doesn't it seem like that it will happen at some point. It's just a matter of when. I do think if you bench Russell Westbrook, you need to win that game. That's what you need that to play out your way. But when you bench him and you lose, that doesn't help you. You know what I mean? It doesn't help you when you bench him and you lose. And to it to his credit, Westbrook could, been, if you go read his quote, more than professional about it.

I actually thought LeBron about it was very good. He left without talking on the media on Wednesday. He left without talking on the media. Was that? There's no quotes to read that night. No, there are no quotes to read that night. But I mean, I disagree. I totally disagree with you, Chris.

I mean, I think he's had some respectful quotes, but he's also had some quotes for you, like, hmm. Like he had the one a couple weeks ago where someone's asking him about his role as a point guard. He's like, I'm a point. card. Like it was like this tongue and cheek response here, like kind of frustrated. Like I'm not the point card.

You know, I don't have the ball on my hands. And then, and then you have, he walks out, I don't know, wasn't it after being benched, no accountability after the game. I don't know. I mean, there's, there's some good. There's also some bad, in my opinion. Well, I mean, look, he asked whether he was surprised that he subsidies. He said, yes, I was surprised.

I was disappointed. I didn't go back in, but I'm more disappointed that we lost the damn game. I want to be able to own the floor to help my team. teammates and be able to help our team win in games like that, but that was a decision that was made. And he says, you know, obviously the guy, you know, Vogel had said, we're going to go with the guys that are trying to win the game.

He says, ultimately you have to be okay when shit doesn't go well and I'm okay. I've done everything that's been asked to me here and I'll continue to do so and ride this out as long as we can towards our ultimate goal to win a championship. We obviously have a bit fully healthy, but I'm committed to making this thing work. The communications are with everybody in the organization. there with everybody in the organization to make this thing work to make this team what we want in the future. I've accepted everything that's been asked to me, tried to do the best of my ability,

but I'm not the ultimate decision maker, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I mean, for an unhappy guy, I think that could have gone a lot worse. You know what I mean? I mean, that quote, that quote you read, that was from the Woage article, right? Correct. And that was Russell Westbrook told ESPN, like, that was directly to Woage. Correct. Like, that quote comes from Woage via Westbrook. I mean, it's very unusual that you get something like that straight from a player to a reporter instead of the media appearance. I mean, I wonder why, I mean, the only reason that's done in all likelihood is because Westbrook's agent is like, we need to get this message or this thought out there. So I don't know,

I just thought that was a little strange that he had that one quote. There's a lot of quotes about him trying to figure it out and trying to, you know, really wants to win a championship. And I know you just did a video about this. Yeah. Even in the article, Woj wrote these words. I pulled it up now. He said, Westbrook was unhappy with characterizations that he stormed out of the Crypto.com arena, locker room without meeting with reporters in a postgame news conference. Both Westbrook and team officials said on Thursday that the organization requested that he skipped the interview session. So this is like a story of trying to get it right. Not that he was angry and pissed

stop and he wants to leave. It's this reason. It's that reason. And here's my new quotes now that I've cooled off. And that does make sense that, you know, you've dealt with this too. You go to locker rooms and there's a lot of times where PR departments are just trying to protect the situation and they just say, all right, he ain't talking tonight. Yeah.

Like nothing good's going to come out of this tonight, right? And so it's their desire, right? Anyway, I mean, all I'm saying is, I thought the quotes, he's trying to say the right thing, right? Rather than, you know, I mean, I went through this with the guy, Kevin, years ago. And I loved Alan Iverson. I did. But, I mean, he was coming off the bench for Mike Conley. I mean, he never even played a home game in Memphis.

And they went on a road trip and they went to the locker room. after the game, and they asked him if he was totally healthy, and his answer was, no, I'm not. My butt hurts from sitting on the bench. You know what I mean? And that can't happen, and if Russ would have said, my butt hurts from sitting on the bench, I don't think anybody would have been all that shock.

I'm just saying it can't go that way with the guy with a lot of pride, you know, that it's not going his way anymore. And that is true of Westbrook right now. Guy with a lot of pride, it's not going his way anymore. Going team to team every year, too. Yes. He's been bouncing. Yeah, after, yeah, OKC for a decade, man.

You know, and now he is called upon to change the way he plays. And I watched your video, and I'll just say, you know, I saw the end. Is he ever going to change his mentality? Probably not. But we have seen him harness it in healthier ways. waves in Houston. It was an absolute shit show at the very beginning of the year. And then as the season went on, he went through about a two-month span where the numbers

were great, the efficiency was great, the clutch scoring was great, and he was leading the NBA in points in the paint. And then it was a shit show in Washington when he got there, first couple of months, and then came spring, and he really cranked it up. you know, and carried them to a chance of being in the playoffs. And so is he going to change? He's never going to change who he is or the way he plays. But I do think there is a, there's a track record here of going to new team, being horrendous.

And then as the season goes on, just starts going to the basket more, stop shooting the bullshit and becomes a lot more efficient. Now, is that going to be what can, take the Lakers to the next level. Does it fit perfectly on a LeBron team? Is he going to be muted? You know, in all those situations, he has had the ball in his hands when he became more efficient. I don't know. But that has happened, you know, and it's not a change completely of who he is. Is he still going to take some goofy shots? Is he still going to make some plays that frustrate people? Is he still going to get a little lack of desical on defense? Sure. But he has gotten

much more efficient for his teams as the season has gone on and a lot of that has been the choices he makes on the shots he does take which is he starts going to the basket and he is a problem when he does, you know?

You're right. 100% man. I think so yesterday after tweeting out the video naturally basically it's like the video was about a LeBron setting an example as the small ball center, right? Like LeBron, AD goes down, and LeBron sets the, really, I think, the tone for the team,

oh, AD goes down, I'm going to be the center, and we're going to be pretty good doing it. To me, I think LeBron became something that he's never been. Russell Westbrook, he said it to Woj. He had the quote, he says, the challenge is how to be the version of myself for this team. That's what I'm trying to figure out. I want to get better as the season goes on, and I'm going to take responsibility for these things I'm doing and how I'm making those around me better. We have a legitimate chance to win it all, and to do that.

I'll have to be better and I know that I will be. That's the quote that ended the article that Woj published this morning. And being the best version of himself for this team, that's all I'm asking for from Westbrook. And like a lot of people, like I said, with that video, some of the responses are like, yes, I agree with you. Like Russ needs to change. He needs to do this. You nailed it. Then there's a lot of people there are like, Russ is just never going to change.

You can't expect that. And one person asked me this question, what's more likely to happen? Russell Westbrook, you know, does the things you're asking him to do, like be, you know, more focused on defense, not shooting as many jumpers, you know, playing, you know, at the rim more often, focusing on D, or Ben Simmons shooting hands. Ben Simmons is switching shooting hands. And I'm like, it's very clearly Westbrook changing because Westbrook, he's shooting less this season than he has since his second year in the entire NBA, 16.1 shots per game. that's the lowest of his career since he shot 14.2 times per game in 0910. That's the last time he shot under that amount. So the third fewest amount of times in his career.

The last two years in a row for him in the postseason, he shot less than the playoffs than he did in the regular season. So Westbrook is trending in a direction where he's not shooting as often and he's shooting less in the playoffs. That to me are positive, those things to me are positive indicators for him. And I think, like, when it comes to Russ, he's definitely like hardheaded and he does things his way because why winning he got to this point of his career and wins an MVP, makes long playoff runs, makes hundreds of millions of dollars doing it his way. But I believe everybody's capable of change. I believe every human is capable of getting better and self-improvement and in their own personal lives and also as basketball players.

And I think LeBron James, like I said, he set the tone. this year, taking on that small ball center role and doing it well. He's got other guys in that locker room. Say what you want about them and their current flaws as players. Dwight Howard became a different type of guy. Carmelo Anthony became a different type of guy. Russell Westbrook is way better than those dudes are when they were 33 years old. Way better still.

Westbrook just needs to tweak who he is, and he can still be who he is, though. He can still be himself, that on-ball downhill guy who just, wreaks havoc against defenses when it makes sense to do. Do you think there's going to come a point where the arrow starts pointing at LeBron? And I only say this because we've been, I have listened to people defend Anthony Davis this year. I've listened or throw the arrows at Anthony Davis this year and it was all his fault. And then it was all Frank Vogel's fault. And now it's all Russell Westbrook's fault.

And now it's just fascinating to me. like, make the most thing he's running that thing. He's the GM. So, I mean, you know, like, it's on him to make this thing work. And I do think that not having role players. Poling is the GM and he's the one who, I think, means to stomp his foot down and say, we're not doing things here away, LeBron. Clutch.

Maybe so. We're doing things by the way. Maybe so. But, I mean, like, I don't think it's the easiest gig. And we have seen guys. It's definitely not. That it looked. No, no, I'm talking about playing with LeBron.

And I'm not making a, I'm not making an excuse for Westbrook or an excuse for AD. But at some point, we got to take a look because I remember years ago, people, you know, they buried Kyrie over it. They buried Kevin Love over it. You know, obviously Jay Crowder once upon a time, you know, got buried for it. I mean, it's not the easiest gig. And some of these guys have looked a lot better, like Crowder, like Kuzma, like some other guys in the league, have looked better. you know i mean lebron and four role players you know is kind of what you end up playing like in most situations and that's the biggest problem is is russell westbrook ever going to be able to be

a guy that just plays a role you know that's never been as you said how he has been successful or can he just maximize what role he does have because that is what you become come. And I'm not so sure that there is a star player that has played with LeBron that we thought more of while they were playing with LeBron. We thought less of Kevin Love, we thought less of Kyrie, we thought less of Anthony Davis, we're thinking less of Russell Westbrook. I mean, I'm just saying it's not the easiest gig. It is a LeBron show. It is. No matter how you want to slice it. That roster is ridiculous. And yes, you could win a championship with LeBron. But sometimes I think even what LeBron desires

might not even be the right thing. You need role players, guys that are comfortable playing within a role around LeBron James. And, you know, they've gone the star route. I'm just, I don't know how many people

we have thought much more highly of when they played with LeBron than when they didn't. And that is juxtapose versus we thought, like, just say like Tim Duncan, right? We thought highly of every player that played with the Spurs. And guys got paid a fortune. Gary Neal got a fortune.

That guy Jonathan Simmons or whatever's name he got up for. I mean, there's all kinds of guys, you know, that were better under those circumstances. Not so sure. I don't know. Maybe there are people that you've thought much more highly of alongside LeBron. I think people are higher on Caruso now than they were when he was a Laker. I know they are. Chris.

Here's Vernon. Verno, like, LeBron's playing 37 minutes a game. He's been playing center for the last month. month, he's averaging nearly 30 points per game at 37 years old and age 19. I understand. There's no blame. Zero. Zero.

Zippo. It is a team sport, Kevin. It's a team sport. It's not about what you're doing individually. It's not. You tell me, LeBron makes his teammates better, though. Who? What do you mean?

Who? I'm not sure. I'm not sure what you mean. It's like everybody. All of them. Who? Name them. Name one. Malik Monk.

The chemistry, those two. Malik Munk is not better this year than he was in Charlotte. What are you talking about? He's averaging like 20 points per game since Christmas. You think Malik Munk is having a better season now than he did last year in Charlotte? I'm just saying to you that he's playing the best basketball of his career ever since he started getting more consistent minutes when they put LeBron James at the five. Nobody thinks of Malik Munt as highly now as they did last year. He's averaging like 20 points per game this past month.

Yes, I think people think more high. highly of Malik Monk. Yes, the last 12 games averaging 17.5 points per game and 31.4 minutes per game, shooting well over 40% from three. Yeah, I think people do think more highly of Malik Monk because not only if they've watched the last week, if they haven't watched all season. More like more like the last. No, I mean like it's totally different circumstances.

I don't even think early season is comparable to what he's been doing since Christmas. It's a totally different role and level of responsibility. totally different. Everything's different than it was early in the years. He went from averaging 24 minutes per game to well over 30, getting way more shots. It's a completely different role than what he did early in the year. And a lot of that is partially because of LeBron James and the shot creation and the opportunities that he creates for Monk. All I would tell you is there is a list that is very long. Are you arguing that LeBron isn't making his teammates better? Is that what you're arguing? I'm telling you that it's not the easiest gig and that more often

than not, we think more highly of the players when they are in different situations and when they are with LeBron. That was true of Lonzo. That's true of Ingram. That's true of Caruso. That's true of Montres Harrell last year. That's true of Kuzma now. That's true of all manner of guys.

It was true of Kevin Love. It was true of Kyrie Irving. It's been true of Anthony Davis. People are lower on Anthony Davis than they've ever been. They're lower on Russell Westbrook than they've ever been. That's because the expectation is so much higher when you're playing on a LeBron James team. And I'm not, I'm not sure that's like necessarily true about guys like Caruso. Caruso was a meme for fans across the NBA, but for Lakers fans, they knew how great he was.

They knew how great he was. I made a video two years ago entering the bubble about Caruso was more than an NBA meme. Here's why Alux Caruso is actually a very important rotation player for the L.A. Lakers. Anybody watching basketball knew how good Caruso was. So just because he's some funky-looking bald white guy. But people think highly are more highly of him now that he is out of that situation. Because then in Chicago he gets more opportunity and because he's doing it without LeBron. Because he's actually, it's translating to a team without LeBron.

So I think that's why that's happening. I don't think there's anything to do with LeBron. LeBron and Caruso had such, they had a cosmic, you know, connection those two guys with their ability to cut and playmate for each other. they made each other better Caruso and LeBron James. That's how good those two guys work together. And that's what the Lakers are missing. That's what I want from Russ. I want Russ to be like,

I'm going to watch that bald white to Alex Caruso and take some of that and put it in my game. That's what needs to happen for this team. They're missing the Caruso type, who's just a connector on the court, on defense with his energy. That's my point. I do think when you play on a LeBron team,

you need LeBron and roll and guys that, know how to play their role. Yes, you can have another start, but I do think that that was, you could have LeBron and Anthony Davis and then fill it out with role players, right? Which is why it's on Russ to evolve. You're hitting it. It's on Ross to be like, okay, I'm going to be myself in these situations, but when I'm playing with LeBron, more often than not, I get a, I get to be different. I need to be different. And I don't think that's, I don't think that's a bad thing. I think that speaks to LeBron being one of the greatest players in the history of sports.

Year 19 doing what he's doing, yeah, it's on you to change. Yes, it's on you to change. Just like who was on Kevin Love, on Chris Bosch, on Dwayne Wade, all these guys from the past, yes, LeBron James is that great that it's on you to change.

If you care anything at all about winning. I mean, come on. Do you think Jay Crowder didn't care about winning? Is that what you think? I'm not sure what you mean. What do you mean? You think Jay Crowder cared about it's all that Jay Crowder's ever cared about.

I'm not sure what you mean, though. He was horrendous in Cleveland and just run out completely. He is your consummate role player. You know what I mean? It's happened a lot. It's happened with a lot of guys. And that is, so I'm just saying it's not easy. I mean, I just pulled up the number.

Jay Crowder shot 33% from three during the regular season with Cleveland that year. I understand. I mean, it's just a poor shooting year. for him. He's been more consistent the last two years of Phoenix. But he's still streaky. Like this year he's shooting only 36%. He's had so many up and down years.

I think Cleveland just got him on a bad year, personally. He's always up and down. It was difficult for, the only point I'm making is it's not, it is harder to play with LeBron than it is with some other guys. Maybe for certain types of players, it's harder. Certain types,

but certain types, it's easier to play. with LeBron. Yeah, bums. I'm kidding. Just get out of the way and knock down the shot when they throws it to you. Where LeBron can be blamed is for pushing for Westbrook overheeled. But even then, I'm still not convinced that that was a mistake. And that's from the dude that you've been arguing with on podcast the last five years about Russell Westbrook.

I've been the dude for years saying how he's overrated. He has these flaws, this and that, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. now I'm the one saying, well, you get Westbrook and Monk or you get healed and keep a couple other role players. I'm not sure which path was necessarily better, but I'm saying Westbrook, if he finds, as he said to Woge, if he finds the best version of himself for this team, I believe that they could have actually chosen correctly. If he doesn't do that, then they chose wrong. And thus far, it does look like they chose wrong. But I still believe that he's capable of tweaking who he is. I don't see why he can't.

I don't see why any player can't. I just don't. Maybe I'm stupid. We've talked a lot about players. And I think rightfully so. Because, you know, there's the old adage. It's not the X's and O's. It's the Jimmy's and the Joe's.

But the coach is the guy that you can most easily. Blake for lack of success. Do you think they'd be better off with a different coach? Yes. Yes. With Frank Vogel, I mean, some of the rotation choices, the schematic choices, like when you're playing LeBron at the 5, you should be switching nearly everything. They don't switch nearly enough with those lineups.

Some of the two big stuff that he was doing early in the season, get the hell out of here. Yeah, Vogel to me, it seems like we're at a point now where he's kind of lost the locker room and also when it comes to just pure basketball, there can be improvements. Whether that's Fisdale, I don't know. I mean, Fisdale, we'll see how much of a change that it is. But, yeah, I do think a change should be made purely for, like, the fact that it seems like something's off here. And like a change has to be made. That's the number one thing.

But it won't matter. It won't matter unless rush changes. Russ needs to change. Well, they also, the biggest thing is they need to get AD healthy. I mean, they cure. That cures a lot of problems. Totally. It's really like, really like in terms of the importance, it's like 80 getting healthy is number one.

Russ changing is number two. And then whatever happens with the head coach is number three, in my opinion, in terms of the biggest change that can be made. And after that, after that, though, like if you're talking about the rest of the roster, I'm not sure how much can really change. That's where, like, I don't know if there's like any, you know, needle moving decisions that they can make before the trade deadline. They just don't have many assets.

It feels like minor and then you're hoping for buyout market. Yeah, unless there's a team that's like, okay, yeah, we'll take your first round pick unprotected in the late 2020s because LeBron's going to be, you know, 40 plus by then, maybe not even in LA. you know, AD could be in Chicago or some other team by that point. Russ definitely won't be with the Lakers,

maybe even beyond this season. But like, so a team might find some value in a late 2020s first from the Lakers. But how much value? Not as much as a pick in 2022, that's for sure. I'm glad you brought up that buddy heel thing because I was stunned. And maybe I shouldn't have been

because Daryl's been very vocal in the past. asked sometimes too vocal, just gotten himself in trouble in different times, getting fined for different things. But he was asked about a deal with Sacramento yesterday in this Ben Simmons thing because he has a prior relationship with Mighty McNair, and he says, I can tell you for sure, there are deals with the Sacramento Kings that I think would work.

Will those deals ever happen? I have no idea. Are there just trade deals with the Kings? Probably not. But is it multiple teams? Probably. But for sure, there are deals that are possible that would go over our line. I do think with how great Joel is, our line has moved down a little bit because

Joel has lifted us into contention by his sheer will of greatness this year that does push the number of deals that we would do more likely if that makes any sense. It's more likely that we can find ones that get us into that top few contention because of how great Mbid is playing. So we're sitting right now on a better chance of a trade that actually helps Joel and the Sixers and Tobias and our whole team because of our great he's been. And he said trades are hard to do. It takes two, right? That's again why I feel the fans' frustration like just get a deal done.

Well, it takes two sides, right? And in this case, it's probably going to take three sides. It's probably going to take multiple teams. And whenever you're involving a big trade with multiple teams, the odds of the deal happening are just low. But I think I feel the Frans' frustration. Okay. So kind of fascinating that like head on, he said, yeah, there's King's Deals, but might be 3-team. You know what I was like, golly?

I don't know. That's such an honest interview, right? I mean, like, he's like, even, he even says, oh, maybe we'll take a top 40 instead of a top 30 player. I mean, it's funny. So, I mean, if you're a Sixers fan, all you've been doing. is coming up with three team king's deals, right? On the trade machine for the last 24 hours.

Look, if they could get Fox, that would be amazing. And I know there's that report that says, Kings aren't moving Fox. They're going to build around Fox and Halliburton. I kind of felt like that was leaked to push the value up even more. You know what I mean? I really did.

Like, I don't know if I buy that. You didn't read this one quote, but I enjoyed the quote where he said, there's a tweet by ball sack sports did you see him say that someone like made up a fake trade no it was like ball sack sports on twitter and people were like debating it thinking it's real ball sack sports yeah darrell morgan said that live on the radio ball sex sports tweets that's amazing that is amazing do you believe them do you believe them do you believe believe Mori. Like he said

all these things about made top 40. We have some potential opportunities, but he did say it's more likely than not that we don't trade Ben Simmons. That's what he said. More likely than not. Do you believe him? I think it's posturing too. But do you believe him, though, that it's more likely than not? Just simply

that. Do you... No. You don't believe him? I do believe him. I believe. Really? Because in that same interview, I'm telling you, man, people think I'm nuts. I've got so many messages just saying, you're just defending Darrell Mori, Ringer fan. Daryl loves the ringer.

It's like, no, I'm not. I'm speaking how I feel. Ben Simmons is the best choice for this team. I am going to, hey, I am going to laugh my ass off. I get down, what were those little dolls called when I was a kid? Those little things that like grandmas are that precious memories. You know, those little dolls that they would be the children that were down by their, they would be kneeling down and pricking.

Yeah, I get down like a precious memories doll now. Every night and I say, please, God, put all of my peers into a situation where Daryl's centerpiece for a deal that he trades for, his return is Dierin Fox. And every one of them has to try to go back and scrub all of their opinions on Dierin Fox and Bill Simmons podcast where they had a debate, is he the worst contract in the NBA? And on and on and on. And in order to defend the beloved Daryl who has attained Deerrin Fox, they have to somehow talk about how in the end, this was brilliant.

And he got Deeran Fox when everybody spent all this time talking about how Deeran Fox sucks and he's got the worst contract and everything else. That's my wish. I pray that he trades for Fox. that would be the absolute best case scenario. How do you like the Maxi Foxx? Maxi Fox. Is that ideal?

To me, it's not ideal. Of course it's not ideal. Okay, so why make a deal that's not ideal? I just don't understand. That's all more he said in the interviews. He said, if we make a deal just to feel better, that will actually hurt and beat in the team's chances of winning. So why make a deal that doesn't help your chances of winning?

Because you're not winning. If Ben Simmons comes back, he gives them exactly what they need, especially if, like with Westbrook, Simmons does some of the other little things that he needs to do to help this team win even at a higher level. But to me, like, if I'm getting all that other crap in return, Kev, if I'm getting that other stuff in return, if I'm getting Fox, if I'm getting healed, I'm getting Bagley, maybe I'm getting Harrison Barnes if I'm throwing in a Tobias deal. You know, maybe I'm getting Bagley in there.

You know, maybe I'm getting somebody else. You know what I'm saying? For what it's worth, I think it's worth thinking about two different contexts for the Twitter, for the Sixers here. Like on Twitter, like a lot of it right now is, as you just said, Harris plus Simmons, getting rid of the Harris contract, there's a chance to end up keeping him. I mean, that's a lot of money to unload in a deal. That's a lot of money. It might just be Simmons. So it might not be healed and Fox and Barnes, that type of thing.

it might only be Fox and, you know, one other piece. And that's a big difference than what you described there. You know, it's a dramatic difference with the return there. I want Buddy. I think Buddy is a great fit than an MB team. It's just another, some more shooting. I just don't get it, though. There's so much overlap with Fox and Maxi.

There's overlap with Heald and Curry. Simmons gives them what they need with a big, multi-positional defender who can play make. That's what that's what they're missing. They're missing Ben Simmons. That's what they're missing. And if Ben Simmons is watching this team at all, if he's paying any attention at all,

I don't see how there can't be a part of him that looks at this team like, damn, we could win a championship with me, and then I can get dealt this off-season. Like, I just don't understand. I don't get it. Like maybe, maybe I'm projecting my own feelings of what I would do in Ben Simmons situation here.

but I think that's perfectly okay to do that as a person. Like, why, how would you not look at this team and think, wow, Joelle LeBeed's averaging 33 points this last month and toying with opponents? He's playing the best basketball of his life. This is our most complete roster that we've had since I've been here. How can you not look at that and think I can win this year and then this offseason that I can get what I want if I still feel that way? I just don't get it.

I really don't get it. Why would you not return? Because he doesn't get trained. Why would he not return? Why would he not? You're a loser if you don't return to this team. Because he hates their guts. That's why.

He hates their guts. Because Doc Rivers said something after the game that was mildly against you after defending your ass the whole fucking year. Get out of here, man. You're a loser. He's a loser if he doesn't. If the Sixers don't trade Simmons and if he doesn't return, he's a loser.

A career loser. A career loser who will never win a champion. I'm telling you. He'll never win a championship if he doesn't come back to this team if he's not traded. I'm telling you. He's a loser. If I don't win a championship anyway. Chris, am I wrong?

Am I wrong? Look, I'm talking about the story. Tell me, let's say February 11th, Simmons is still on the Sixers. Should he come back? Look. Should he come back? Yes or no. Yes or no.

Should he come back? To me, that ship has sailed so. So long ago, I didn't even know why. Why? He's still in the team now. Why isn't he back now then, Kevin? No, not. Okay.

Forget about now. If we ought to argue about this, look, should he be on the team tonight? The answer is, of course, yes. Like, he's handled the thing all wrong. Of course he should be played. Whether it's after the trade deadline, before the trade deadline, of course. He should be playing basketball. See, I get it.

I get it right now because Clutch and Simmons, they're trying to, use their leverage at this moment. That leverage goes away February 10th at 3 p.m. It goes away. Over. It's done. Time to go back and play basketball and suck it up, deal with the booze, have some big games. Then the fans start cheering you.

And then everybody's talking about, holy shit, the Sixers have a chance to win the championship. That's what it's going to turn into. I'm telling you. February 10th, if he's still on the Philadelphia 76ers after that, if he ends up returning, like it's going to take a couple of weeks of weirdness. And then it's going to be like, or the Philadelphia. of 76ers. The NBA finals favorites next on first

take. That's what it's going to be. I'm telling you. If he returns. If he doesn't return, then they won't win a championship. That's why Darrell Morey is right playing at the way he is because Simmons, unless there's a deal good enough, is their best option to win a championship. That's what this

is all about. It's about making the most of Joelle and Bede, this dominant force, one of the greatest bigs that I've ever seen in my time watching basketball. I mean, this guy's ludicrous what he's doing on the court. He's even better than last year when everybody was talking about him as an MVP. It's about making the most of it for him. It's about putting the pieces around and beat. And Simmons is a perfect fit on defense. On offense, those guys have excelled together despite some of the flaws they've had together.

Morrie should want Ben Simmons back. The Sixers in that locker room should want Simmons back. Sixers fans might be pissed off at this dude. And rightfully so. You might always hate this guy and feel a certain type of way if he did return. but right now at this moment Simmons is the best choice right now he is I'd rather focus on the trades because I think he is gonna I think he's gonna get trade he's not he's never playing for Philly again I don't know why that is even it's still even a dream he's never why wouldn't it be why wouldn't it be though it's only it's two weeks till the deadline if you're gone this far you're not playing he's still on Philly I disagree this is a game and it's all about leverage and trying to get him out of there.

But if the Sixers don't trade him, again, like I said, why would he not return? Why would you not return? The same reason he's not returning now. Yeah, but you get a chance to win a championship, dude. He had a chance to win a championship last year. I mean, he has a, he knew that. He knows what team they have.

And he blew it, and he blew it. He knows what team they have. And he blew it last year. Well, I mean, Taibo missed the free throw. He did, and he also filed herder. I mean, there's a number of plays that explain why Philly lost that game and series. JOLMB has got completely off the hook for his second half performances in that. Totally.

100%. Totally. Like I said, it's not just on Ben Simmons. And it's very unfair that all of the blame was put on him. But he Stivel himself said that on the JJ Redick pod. You know, old man in the three. He's like, everybody talks about Ben. They don't talk about the fact that I filed Kevin Harder shooting a three-pointer.

I mean, like it wasn't just Simmons. but all I'm saying is this year's roster is better. Maxie's development, the way Seth Curry is performing, some of these young guys, the way Embed is, if Simmons doesn't return, he's a loser. A loser. I think Darrell's going to move him. It's going to be a three-team deal.

I think yesterday's interview and him being so vocal about it was a precursor. I hope he doesn't move him. I don't want to trade. I want to see if we're, I want to be living in the timeline where we get to see what happens if Simmons doesn't get traded. I want to live in that world because I want to just see what happens. Well, we both have our desires.

You want that and I wanted to get traded for Fox so that everybody has to act like Darrell got an amazing deal. I mean, like, dude, that wouldn't be a bad deal. Of course, Fox is a good player. It's just not the ideal. return, in my opinion. Well, look, we've been talking about this for a long, long time, but we got less than, what, we got like three weeks?

We're coming down. Two weeks, right? Yeah, home stretch. It's a 10th, right? Yeah, the 10th, yep. Yeah, we're coming down the home stretch here. We're not going to do that many more shows before something happens. And who knows, by the time we speak next time, maybe there's another trade, maybe there's

a new coach for the Lakers. this thing is getting fast and furious now to say the least. It's picking up, man. It's really picking up. Yeah, it is. That Brent Forbes thing was the first one, right? Big deal. Big trade.

Bowl, pull. Let's go. Let's go. Bowl ball! All right. Thank you to our executive producer, Jesse Lopez, as always. Kevin, I'll talk to you next Tuesday. Looking forward to it.