The Mismatch - How Will the Nuggets Respond? Plus, Pick Your Poison With Jokic and a LeBron Power Play?

Episode Date: June 6, 2023

The Heat even the series against the Nuggets, and Verno and KOC discuss how the Heat took Game 2, Michael Malone’s comment about the team’s effort, Jimmy Butler’s brilliant facilitating, and Michael Porter Jr.’s poor performance (01:31). While Erik Spoelstra downplayed the idea of trying to make Nikola Jokic a scorer, could this be a key to beating Denver (21:29)? Also, the guys debate if Kyrie Irving is truly trying to bring LeBron James to Dallas (37:22). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, friends, and welcome to a golf podcast unlike any other. This is Fairway Rowland on the Ringer podcast network. I am your starter. Joe House every week on Fairway Rowland. It is myself and our PGA tour correspondent on the ground, Nathan Hubbard, talking all things professional golf, amateur golf, amateur betting, professional betting, amateur drinking, professional drinking, my birdie buddies. If you want to hit them straight out there,

please check out Fairway Rowland every week, available on Spotify. Welcome to The Mismatch. I'm Chris Marnan, and joining me as he does every Monday night from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, a.K. Kevin O'O.C. Kevin O'C., Kevin O'Colns, Kevin O'Colm, Kevin O'Clymour, Kevin O'Chymns,

Kevin O'Findon. Burdow! How are you doing tonight, man? What's going on? I'm doing great. We've got a couple of nights without basketball, but I have thoroughly enjoyed this NBA finals thus far. It has been great.

It has been great. Last night, the Miami Heat tie up the series after they shoot 68.8% and score 36 points in the fourth quarter, a historic offensive performance in the fourth quarter that they went into down 83 to 75. They end up flipping the game. You could have them down eight, you can have them down 10.

Last night they had them down 15 at one point in the game, and it just does not seem to matter throughout these playoffs. You better put them away, put them away, put them away, because otherwise you are in for the fight of your game. life and sure enough comes down to a last shot last night and the heat get a massive road win in Denver. After that thing all wrapped up last night, what was your overwhelming feeling about what you had just watched?

We got a series. Miami, you know, they played an incredible game. Obviously, you know, X's and O's and scheme, as Spolster said after game one, don't necessarily win your games, you know, player performance. does when you shoot the hell out of it the way they did. But ultimately, Spow pulled the right strings. Starting Kevin Love, you know, we saw in game one Aaron Gordon using his size. Kevin Love, you know, deterred Gordon from being a factor on offense in a significant way like he was early on. Some of the off ball stuff that they were doing to get Duncan Robinson going in the fourth quarter,

you know, coming off screening actions towards the rim, opening threes, early in the game, slipping screens, you know, with Max Strues going to the corner. You know, they were just adding these little wrinkles, these strategic wrinkles over the course of the game that were highly effective. And going zone just helped kind of throw Denver off a rhythm in the fourth quarter. I thought once again, Eric Smolstrup pulled a lot of the right strings. And Jimmy Butler, you know, Bam out of bio, Gabe Vincent, especially those three, you know, executed at a high level.

And Butler, I felt overall, you know, you look at the numbers, 21 points on 19 shots. That's not what it was about for Jimmy Butler. It was the nine assist. It was facilitating the hockey assists that he created within the flow of their offense. I thought he was absolutely awesome facilitating from Miami. Both him and out of bio. I mean, you could run offense through one.

Yeah. You know, because Yolkits isn't coming all the way up there. He's just not. He's not coming all the way up. And so if you want to start with Bam, far away from the basket, he can facilitate from there or he can drive in and make a playoff of that. But they had a bunch of guys willing to make that extra pass. And as I mentioned, they're down eight going into the fourth quarter.

That is the fourth time that they have won in the playoffs, where they have been down eight or more points in the fourth quarter, which is not unsurprisingly the most in a single postseason that's ever happened. they are now four and five in those situations. Kevin, the rest of the NBA in the postseason down eight plus is one and 41. They're four and five. The rest of the NBA is one and 41. Wow.

In the postseason, if they're down eight plus points in the fourth quarter. That is freakish. Wow. I mean, for that not to matter, seemingly it matters to everybody else. Like, you just don't, you don't come back. That's what it has told us, especially in postseason. And yet, in the postseason, they have found a way in these fourth quarters. And that performance last night, I mean, shooting almost 70%.

Now, in fairness, Mike Malone, I don't know if you saw Mike Cole Malone. I don't want to make him any matter. This guy was super pissed off last night. I don't want him to get more upset by me calling him a name that he does not prefer. But in his post-game press conference last night, this was a very frustrated coach, to say the least. And he came in there and he was, I mean, he was mad about their effort. he was mad about their defense. He was mad all the way around, obviously,

about the way they played and was highly concerned with their effort in that game. And then like even the players when they were interviewed about it and what he said, you know, Jeff Green said that, Jamal Murray said that, that all of them were like, yeah, we can't be that way. you know, it's the finals. We got to come out. And he said, like, they started off the game 10 to 2.

That's against the starters. They started off the second half, like 13 to 2. Like, what are we doing here? It's the NBA finals. Effort should not be an issue. And what's crazy is, Kevin, it feels like everyone the heat plays ends up saying that. They have a way of playing harder than you.

Just a team full of dogs that make you look like you don't want it as much as they want it. You know, it's crazy. These are all NBA players. Do you think that's real, though? I know Miami makes it look like that they want it far more, but do you get the impression that effort was an issue for Denver? I mean, look, you had a team shoot 69% in a quarter, yes.

Yes. And that's where he was talking about. He said, 36 points. Was it effort or was it more focus and sloppy mistakes? Like, KCP had the falls on three-point shooters. Michael Porter Jr. had some, like, real laxadaisical moments on defense that looked like the old version of himself, not the guy that we've been raving about. oh, he's a new player, he's a new player, and all that. I wonder if it was just a couple of guys on the team making mental lapses

more so than an overall collective team effort. That's my family watching the game. This is what he said. He said, tonight the starting lineup to start the game, it was 10 to 2 Miami. Start in the third quarter, they scored 11 points in just over two minutes. We had guys out there that were just whether feeling sorry for themselves for not making shots or thinking they could just turn it on or off. This isn't the preseason.

This isn't the regular season. This is the NBA finals. To me, that's just really perplexing. It's disappointing. And, you know, and that is part of it. Like he said, they started the fourth quarter 13 to 2. To me, the wheels really fell off starting the fourth quarter. They were getting whatever they wanted.

Threes, layups. And that allowed them to, again, sit back in their zone offense, slow to game down and we had a hard time getting stops and then we had a hard time getting made baskets on the other end. Our defense has to be a hell of a lot better. That's two quarters. Game one and two where our fourth quarter defense has been non-existent because he was mad that Miami shot 60% from three in the fourth quarter of game one. He went in there and he said, look, we did not play well. And you guys are going to laugh at me, but we did not play well. We just gave that team all kinds of open shots.

And you remember, I mean, like all that second spectrum stuff was saying, the heat missed a ton of shots that they typically made. They did, yeah. I mean, we talked about it after game one. They had pretty much equal, you know, shot quality according to second spectrum. Right. You know, part of it is guys typically amp up on defense when they are playing well on offense, when the ball goes through the basket.

And that is a function of what happens. happens with the Miami Heat. Everybody eats. Everybody plays. Everybody, you know, gets a chance, has a role, right? And it becomes kind of equal opportunity. And with the way it played out last night, it's a lot of yokeach and not as much of the rest of those guys. Porter Jr. was pitiful. Caldwell Pope was pitiful. Pitiful. Both of those. I mean, KCP was terrible in all regards with the fouls of the three points. That's inexcusable. But even with Michael Porter Jr.

So far, I mean, in game two, he's two of eight from the field, one of six from three. After going five of 16 from the field in game one, two of 11 from three. I mean, so like you've got a guy right now that is three of 17 behind the arc in the series. And he's getting a ton of good looks, a lot of good looks. And like for Denver, you got to feel like at some point those shots, start to fall, but it can't affect his defense like it seemed to in game two. He wasn't rebounding as much. He wasn't putting in his great effort.

He was losing guys off ball. It's like his lack of scoring was affecting his defensive focus. And that just can't happen to Michael Malone's point. I mean, look, that picture, that screenshot that Herala Bob Bulgaris put out there last night. Oh, the pass. How does a guy average this many minutes and one assist, you ask? Yeah, I mean, that was a perfect example. He had two guys open underneath the basket,

one of them being a two-time MVP in Yokic, and he's jacking up a contested mid-range jumper instead. It's crazy. And you know what? Like, if you're worried about effort, if you're worried about guys getting like pushed around, who can't be punked out? Like, to me, I mean, you're going to have to like heat check on Porter.

But man, I'd just rock with Brown. I love him. Christian Brown or Bruce Brown? No, Bruce. Bruce is built for it. He's the kind of guy that fits in that kind of high intensity, let's get physical, let's get in each other's faces, type of energy. And I would bet I did not even look at his plus minus,

but I guarantee you it bears it out. Oh, he's a plus 14. Okay. Plus 14, which led the game. In the game, they lost by three, right? Yeah. Well, and in that first half, Denver's, Denver's. second unit that stretch they had without yokech was awesome it was one of the i felt like if denver had went up

went up to oh i was thinking okay well this is what we're going to be talking about this nuggets this nuggets bench unit which by the way even despite you know it being one to one has been tremendous and i think you're i think you're right chris and i think we did see that happen considering that bruce brown played more time than michael porter junior on the floor porter played only 26 minutes in the game down from 43 in game one down from 36 in the conference finals against the Lakers. He hasn't had under 30, you know, in the entire postseason, 36 against Minnesota, 30. 30.3 against Phoenix, 36.3 against the Lakers.

And then he dipped under 30 in game two. That's because I think Michael Malone, the guy he's talking about is not the whole team. It's definitely not the bench unit. It's Michael Porter Jr. You got to be better. If you're not scoring, you got to make up for it on defense, and he didn't. Well, I mean, it kills you. If your wing defense is poor, kills you.

especially when their best player is a wing. You know? He just had so many bad plays. Helping inside, you know, like late help, you know, helping when he shouldn't help off shooters, falling out of position, not rebounding. It was not that you're going to put all the blame on him. No.

But, I mean, he deserves a portion of it. He was a minus 15, the worst of the team. And I felt like it was clearly indicative. Like, plus minus isn't always perfect, but I feel like it was pretty good at showing the impacting game too. No, but if you're going to get in a dog fight, he's not a guy you're picking, right?

If we're going to go out in the middle and we're going to, I know we're playing basketball, but if we're going to scrap, and that's kind of what you need, you need the guys that you think you could go to the fight with. Brown's much more applicable to that than Porter is because he can be truly a shrinking violent as he was last night.

And, you know, you got, and we'll see what he does. I would imagine you'll probably see a lot more brown. We talked about it after game one. Love is, that's like the only card to play. It's like, all right, this team is obviously going to punish you for your size, right? The Celtics let you off the hook for it. But from the second that game tipped off, they started punishing them. And it was Aaron Gordon free for all.

He had 12 points before we got to a damn commercial break. it felt like, Yokic's got six assists, everything's easy. It's like, oh, you get to play Caleb Martin, though you're not. Because if you're going to play Caleb Martin, we're going to body you, and we're going to get switches and we're going to have, like, we're too big for that. So your only chance, you don't have anybody else sitting over on the bench. We said, like, you may have to just go with Kevin Love because while he is not what he once was, he's still a power forward.

He's still that size of guy who can really. rebound the position, move his feet well enough, and throw a couple outlet passes that get you some good looks, space the floor, maybe knock down a couple threes, and literally all of those things happened last night. He rebounded his position at an unbelievable rate. He kept his feet moving on defense, threw some great outlet passes, and knocked down a couple of threes. like it worked out great and that takes uh you know he's able to he's able to play these guys and not play these guys without them having a bunch of hurt feelings they come in they're ready to play like duncan robinson who had was in witness protection for most of the year and there's

kevin low who's very accomplished guy and gets back in the starting lineup it makes the most of it less than resent anybody for it. Great move. Great move. It was. I mean, it was tremendous. He not only defended Aaron Gordon and prevented him from getting in the paint,

but he also had some great possessions helping on Yokic inside. He's not blocking shots necessarily, but he's getting a position, getting his arms straight up, and putting on a good contest. And I think also, like you mentioned, how he doesn't play, he's benched for three straight games, comes back in game two. He's not sweating it. Even in the fourth quarter. He didn't play.

You know, he's, he's cheering from the bench. Other guys are stepping up because that's what the game called for in that moment when Miami went, you know, they, Duncan Robinson on fire in the fourth quarter. Eric Spols for sticks with him and he's going with that zone defense and the zone's doing its job. It's they're starting with the press. They're getting Denver into their half court offense later than they want to be. The zone is neutralizing some of the two-man game between Murray and Yokic. It's like their zone just plays on a string.

And they don't go with it a lot because you can't a lot. You just wears your defense out. Opponents can get used to it as well. But they're using it just a perfect amount it feels like right now in those fourth quarters and doing a good job of neutralizing Denver. I look forward to seeing what Malone fires back with. Is there something that he can use to kind of, you know, really take that zone away from Miami as an option? is there ways for him to exploit Kevin Love in ways that he didn't in game one? I just look forward to seeing that.

I feel like absolutely they will. And I think this is one of those where you've got these two teams who are trustworthy to look at the tape and make the proper adjustments. And also, when you talk about so much disappointment in the effort, the fire, the force, all that stuff, you know, it sounds like we got punked out on our home floor. I mean, I would imagine that you get a home run effort out of Denver in that next game. I think they go back, you know, they go, I bet game three, Denver is awesome. I would be shocked if they're not awesome in game three, honestly. And I think this could just go back and forth, back and forth, and then they'll make their adjustments,

and then Miami will have to adjust to that. And that we've got an extremely good series on our hands. It's almost time to crown an NBA champion. And Fandul wants you to be part of the excitement. Because right now, new customers can get a no sweat first bet up to $2,500. That's $2,500 back in bonus bets if your first bet doesn't win. In game two, the Nuggets head to the road and they're favored minus 270 right now over the heat, who are plus 220 in the game.

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I know that it can get a little simplistic in basketball analysis, the whole turning Yokage into a score. And, you know, I love Spolstrel. I think he's great. I think he's good at the media, the whole thing. I find the guy to be very likable. I've interviewed him before. I like Eric's Folshund.

I thought that was weak what he did last night on the Ramona Shelburne question. And then everybody's like dunking, like, you know, oh, he dunked on Ramona Shelbur, whatever. when she said, she asked the question, which was literally what people that are paid millions of dollars to analyze the game, say what you want about them,

but it's what they were talking about on the ABC post game show. Okay? At the same time. For it's worth, I didn't, I didn't get the impression that Spow was trying to dunk on Ramona. Oh, I know. I didn't either. I got the

impression he was trying to dunk on the idea of it. Yes. This make him a score. and look, he can say the untrained eye and, you know, he's just a great player. And nobody, when you say turning him into a score, nobody's taking away from anybody by saying that. That's not some kind of demerit. It is, and whether you want to call it that or not, backing up off him, staying attached to the cutters, being physical with them

and not giving them open lanes Kyle Lowry was even talking about it on the post game like all of those things Cody Zeller Cody Zeller said to Michael Pina we're excited he scored 41 yes in turn

he can say to the untrained eye or whatever but like you're backing up often you're staying attached to everybody else and you're saying this is how you're going to have to go about it and it's not the worst thing to happen. The assists number being four is a massive story. This is a guy that absolutely carves you up and wants to and makes all of his teammates better.

But if you're going to back up off him to win, last night, ESPN Stads and Info had this that they put out from second second spectrum. So he averaged, and this is like so shocking to me. He averaged 2.07 dribbles before he shot the ball last night, right? That doesn't seem like a lot. But it's a huge number for Yokic. He keeps the ball moving. He dribbles very few times. In fact, it was the third highest of his career.

And four times in his playoff career, he's averaged two or more dribbles before he shot the ball. They are one in three in those games. You've seen the number going around everywhere. They're 0 and 3 when he scores over 40. They're 13 and 1 in every other scenario this year. And look, their offensive rating was still great, and they still had a chance to tie the game at the end. But I think that when you watch them

and you say if you can stay attached and all those passes that he makes, as those guys are cutting to the basket, you can put elbows into those guys, if you can be physical with those guys, and you can prevent those guys from life being easy for them, and you just have to live with him mashing somebody up one-on-one, then so be it. It's not a demerit.

to say that. What it's saying is, you've got to pick your poison in some ways with him. That's the truth. Trained eye, untrained eye, whatever you want to call it. You got to pick your poison.

And they did pick it. I mean, I'm with you, Chris. I think ultimately, you watched the game. I was watching it back this morning and prep for this show for the Beyond the arc segment we did on like some of the yoke

stuff that we're talking about here. And it's like, they very clearly, as you said, were sending two at guys. Like there was this pick the side dribble handoff in the corner of the corner of the court where Yokic handed off the Bruce Brown. Cody Zeller and Max Drews kind of try to trap him in the corner to send it back to Yokic who scored. You know, there's plays where, you know,

Yokic would be posting up against Bametabio. Jimmy Butler would come over and help. He'd kick it out to Jumach. Murray, it'd be a tough closeout from Butler who'd give it back to Yokic, who would score, right? It's like, it's not like Denver wasn't getting buckets, but they were sending extra attention to Michael Porter, Jr. coming off of screens. Jamal Murray coming off of handoffs, Bruce Brown, it didn't matter. And I think that was a very clear, what Spolstra said, part of that is probably coach speak. Of course it is.

Part of that is probably just him. It's paying respect as well to Denver. he's right. Like, you can't, you can't dictate everything that they're going to do. Yokic was still finding teammates, but at the end of the day, I think they accomplished what they wanted to do, as every player in that locker room said that they wanted to do. They were the ones speaking openly about it. And that was, again, according to Second Spectrum, another stat that I found last night, Yokic, his passes led to only 13 shot opportunities by his Nuggets teammates.

13 is the lowest number of the entire postseason for Yokic. It is the second lowest factoring in every single regular season game with 12 being the previous, the all time low so far this season. So like he's passing the ball. It's not leading to open shot opportunities because of that attention that they're giving other guys. And we've seen it.

When you, you want to run doubles at him, night, nine, night. It's over. You're done. Yep.

The guy had six assists in the first two minutes of the freaking first game of this finals. Like, you got to do something. You know, he had six assists instantly. What do you have for the game? Like 14? I think you have 14. He had, what, four in this game.

In some respects, they are fortunate, though. You know, he has 41 points on 16 of 28. He shot quote unquote, only 57% from the floor. What I'm saying is that they're like with Cody Zeller tells Peanut that they're excited, he only has 41. You know, next time around,

Yokic on 28 shots, very well might crack 50. And if that happens, he's not taking a bunch of threes. So you still got the math in your favor as long as you're able to generate threes on the other end. Very, very good point. Yep, very good point.

Sometimes Curry, You want to mess around with Tim. That Joker might hit 12-3s on your ass. Yep, great point. And that's where, like, if you're, if you are doubling Yokic, it tends to lead to either A, open spot up three-point pointers,

or B, shots at the rim, either via a cutting player or it's a kickout to a three-point shooter who attacks a close-out and then finds a cutter, right? So, like, if you're doubling Yokic, it leads to those analytically happy shots. Whereas if you are not, if you're forcing others to give the ball back to Yokic, you're 100% right, Chris. It tends to lead to two-pointers, not threes, whereas Miami is jacking them up and making a hell

on a lot of them this postseason. You know, Max Drews, 4 of 10, Duncan Robinson, 2 of 3, Kyle Lauer, 2 of 3, Gabe Vincent, 4 of 6. I mean, they shot the heck out of it again. And that's just as they have this entire postseason. Like, I know what people might say with Miami isn't sustainable. Can they actually continue shooting this well after not doing? so during the regular season.

I don't see why not. It's only five more games at the most. They don't have to sustain success for five months. It's just five more games. And the guys that are playing are all very good shooters. And they're creating good shot opportunities as well. Miami's coaching and their players are executing. It's really a collection.

It's a group effort. You can't just give credit to one group here. But I just think the way these players are executing that SPO game plan throughout this playoffs, how they continue to shape shift is regardless of how this ends. It's remarkable to watch. This team is special as an eight-s- eight versus one again.

And Denver, like so many other teams, Kev, is so dependent on their defense for their offense. We talked about this so many times. They want to be flying up and down the course. They want to be pacing space and pace. They want to be getting fast break

points. That's where they dwell. You know, this Miami team, drags her ass down into the mud like it's the 90s and they get they could generate good shots out of the half court and they're fine playing we run a play you run a play basketball that lets them set up in their zone it's a lot harder to cross match and then you ain't set up in a zone off of misses most of the time you're getting to do that off of free throw stoppages in play makes and when they're not running and gunning and getting out in transition you know, that Denver team, the whole, when it's time for we run a play, you run a play.

Not that they can't do it. Of course they can generate good shots. I'm just saying that's not their comfort zone in the same way. You see, Miami to do this. I disagree. I disagree with that. Oh, you saw it with Boston. They drugged their ass into the month too.

No, all I'm saying is Denver is extremely comfortable in the half court. No, I'm not saying they can't get shots. I'm saying there's a lot of those guys that you're, the type of shots that you're getting and the way that you are able to get out and go off of a miss, I mean, Malone even acknowledge it last night. They're not setting up in a zone off transition. Like, you talk about all the zone, everybody's talking zone, zone, zone, every game. He drops in the zone at the right time. Like, you're dropping in the zone playing half-court basketball.

Can't do that off a miss. And not, of court, they're a great team. And I'd expect they'll have answers. But one of the big answers is kidding stops. They give up 36 friggin points in a quarter. That is insane. The offensive rating for Miami in the fourth quarter was like a thousand. Yeah, wasn't it like 185 or something like that?

I forgot the number off the top of my head. Well, and look, the possessions are so low. the more possessions favors the better team. So while they might be able to function in the half court, you want to play more. You want those possessions getting up. That's going to favor you if you're Denver. And when they're that efficient on that ridiculously low amount of possessions,

I got the numbers for you, Chris. According to John Schumann on NBA.com, The heat had 36 points on just 19 possessions in the fourth quarter. Come on. Which is 189.5 per 100 rating. That would be, according to John, the most efficient fourth quarter for any team in any game this season in the 10th most efficient quarter overall. That is absurd. Okay, Kev.

Absolutely absurd. The real absurd number is the 19. You times that by four, so that gives you 30. That's a 76 possession game. Come on, bro. 76 possessions. That's what that would average out to. Yeah, I mean, it would be one of the slower-paced games of the postseason, yeah.

What? What? Slower pace? I mean, 19 possessions. Yeah, it would be the fourth slowest pace game of the playoffs. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, fourth slowest.

That's where Miami. can make this a game. Any team, this is just like you see in football too, right? There's teams that can play defensive ball control and they keep the high-powered offense off the field. That's your best job. The best thing you can do is just drain it out. So you see the frigging Titans doing this crap.

You saw your Patriots do it for many years, you know, where it's like, you know, famously it gets the greatest show on. turf no less. But just keep them off the field. Same kind of thing. This Miami team just come play. Welcome to hell. We're going to play 19 frigging possessions. You better score on all of them because we're going to score on 70% of them. That's their speed, man. They're fine with that. And you've got to find a way to get out of that. I think Denver will. I think Denver will, honestly. Like I said, I'd be stunned to they don't come back with a huge effort.

Because I think a lot of this Denver team, I really do. But that was just, once again, Miami never ceases to amaze us, right? Not at all. We thought they'd have answers and be more competitive in game two, for sure. And you'd get a better Jimmy, and you'd probably make more threes. But I don't know if we foresaw them winning on the road in Denver.

They haven't lost there yet And they've probably played better teams than Miami Prior to this But they're unbelievable You change in your prediction at all? I said Denver and six before the series I'll stick with it I think Denver still lets a series

Yeah and six or seven I think it might go The whole way Seven I'd love a seven game series That'd be great, that'd be epic I could see that I mean, look, we're five at minimum now, and I don't think the heat are going to lose boat at home, okay? My guess would be Denver wins the next one.

The heat come back and win four. Five goes to Denver. Denver gets that one. So now they're up three, two, going to Miami. So it is just a matter of six. And so I'll just say Miami wins that one and we go to seven. and Denver wins the last. Let's go, baby.

Seven game series. That's what I'd guess right now in terms of the way it plays out. I think there's going to be a split in Miami. I think this game, this game three is going to be just so fascinating to see what Malone fires back with. Are they going to clean up some of the mess on their defense? Are they going to be sharp or are they going to continue to be sloppy on defense? Black focus, effort, however, whatever he wants to call it.

How do they come back firing game three in? Miami. I think they will. They better. A couple other stories that we've got to get to. What about this Shams report about Kyrie courting LeBron James, the Mavericks in the news during the NBA

finals? I mean, well, LeBron dominating the headlines again, Chris. You know, we get an off day. Hey, Michael Malone can't be too mad. We have two days off so we can talk a little bit trade stuff without affecting our finals coverage. this is something else

I mean I tweeted it out earlier today the Bill Simmons March 28th podcast with Kevin Wilds talking half-baked ideas and Bill Simmons says on that podcast he's getting you know some feelings that the Dramon Green could be going to the Dallas

Mavericks this off season to join Luca and Kyrie and then LeBron James would soon try to force his way out of L.A. to join them with Dallas at the time, you know, I hadn't heard anything about Draymond going to Dallas. I still haven't heard anything about Draymond going to Dallas. But the fact this comes out today you know, from both Shams Sharania and Chris Haynes

within minutes, they both dropped the story. Maybe this comes from Kyrie's camp. Maybe this comes from the clutch camp and if it's from clutch it could be like another way for them to kind of stir up hey Lakers do something big go all in

maybe this comes from the clutch camp I mean if it does maybe well it could come from the Kyrie camp oh he doesn't have a camp he's probably out in the woods what are we talking about you're saying you're saying Kyrie is literally camping yes

he's What are you talking about? Well, regardless, regardless. You think he's calling reporters and telling them to report something, you're out of your gourd? After going on Instagram live and saying, don't talk about me. I take, I read this as clutch saying, we have options. And if you don't go get our guys that we want, we can go somewhere else. So like, in my story after LeBron threatened retirement, I said, I speculated to be

fair this was not based off of sources or anything like that. It's only based off of the words from LeBron James himself. And based off what he said in the past about wanting to play with Stefan Curry, being best friends with Draymond Green and wanting to be teammates with him. That's what it was based off of LeBron James' own words. So I think what's happening here is clutch in all likelihood is trying to create leverage for LeBron James against the Lakers to say, hey, do what we want. or he can force his way out and you're going to be nothing about it.

A hundred percent, Kev, you're right. Life is leverage. He doesn't have any right now because Polinka made good moves. Everybody said the Lakers were stocked up that they had a team that was good to go and that they could win. And that he made a bunch of really good moves throughout the season that improved them. He didn't let LeBron be the GM. he was able to flip that Westbrook contract. He was able to get a good enough roster around LeBron and AD.

And then it fell short. And they got beat by a better team in Denver and they got swept. But at this point, you know, LeBron, the GM doesn't, you know, they were in that pickle because they got Russell Westbrook because of his desires. and they've required other guys because of his desires. And it's like, Blinka made good moves. Everybody's got to give him credit for that. And, you know, when people are talking about the moves that they made,

and it's like, all right, now here we go again. You better move those. Plinkin can't have to give up those first rounders in order to get off the Westbrook thing. And he got them stuff that could help them, you know, get to the point that they did. in the playoffs. And I think we all thought he did a good job. Made some very good and frugal moves.

But I think that LeBron's in a spot now where it's like everybody ain't saying oh, that team's not good enough around him. They sold him short. He ain't got enough with him. Right?

And so you've got to create that leverage somehow. So it's like, hey, this this guy in Dallas is recruiting me to come play down there. Like, come on, can we at least get something a little more believable? If I was, if I was the Lakers, I'd be like, give me a break. Fine. Tell me this.

Go to Dallas. I just, I'm not saying I disagree, but I want to understand why do you think it's not believable? Did Kyrie is recruiting him to Dallas? Yeah, why would he not be recruiting him from Dallas? I said how Draymond would be recruiting him to Golden State. We got Bill Simmons saying back in March, back in March, that was a long-ass time ago that he had been hearing rumblings about this.

If you want to attach your wagon to Kyrie Irving, you are the nudiest bastard in America. What? You not just see what happened with KD? I saw. I know. Not to see what happened with James Hard? Like, I don't care Kyrie's recruiting me.

Like, what are we talking about? But you're not attached. Chris, you're not. But you're not, you're not attached yourself to Kyrie Irving. You're attaching yourself to Luca. It didn't say Lucas recruiting him. I know, but that Dallas is sitting there going, well, then who the hell's going to have the ball? Well, Dallas is Luca.

Right. Who's just a younger version of LeBron James. All right. Okay. Can we play, you know, trade machine Picasso here real quick? Go ahead. Real quick. Okay.

Dramon Green opts in after threatening the warriors saying, hey, I'm going to leave unless you trade me to Dallas. Okay. So he opts in. He gets traded to the Mavericks from Maxie Cleva and Reggie Bullock. LeBron James demands a trade to the Mavericks to join up with his BFF, Dramond. His other BFF, his ex, Kyrie Irving, and one of the best players. in the world right now and Luca. The Lakers for LeBron

James get. All right, stop. Wait a minute. I'm not done yet. Everybody lives in this. I'm not done yet. I'm not done yet. Bertons,

Hardaway Jr., Josh Green, Jane and Hardy, 2023 pick number 10, and then the 20... It's all stupid. The 2020 7 first. What I'm saying,

Chris, wait a second. I know. it's dumb. It's dumb. It's dumb. It's fantasy basketball stuff. It's NBA 2K stuff. However, if Draymond Green and LeBron James wanted it to happen, the point is that there's a financial path to actually making it happen.

Okay. Can we stop? Just let me take a 20 second time out and be clear. We have spent the last three months saying that Dallas has got to find a way to get out. of the Kyrie business. You don't even think they should pay him in the first place. By the way, can we take a 20 second time out and say, he doesn't have a contract with the Mavericks.

He doesn't have a long-term contract with the Mavericks. Yeah, but if you're paying, yeah, if you have to pay Kyrie Irving and it means getting Draymond and LeBron James, then you're going to pay Kyrie Irving. So you're going to pay all of them? Yeah. And still not win. Probably.

It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. Come on. You do the right thing and you build out properly around Luca Donchich. Yeah, but then he, but if you don't, the pressure's on. You're giving LeBron leverage by giving this life. This is poppy cock. Chris, the pressure is on Dallas.

Brian is not going to frigging Dallas. No, Chris, the pressure is on. Chris, the pressure is on Dallas right now. If they don't start winning. Yes. If they don't start winning in the next year or two, he's going to demand a trade. That's what's going to happen. Oh, so go and make it a LeBron James operation.

That'll make him happy. Oh, I mean, you might start winning. Making the second biggest star. That's fun. But if you start winning, that's ultimately all that matters. Well, LeBron's really been winning. And it would be Lucas team still. Luca would be the best player on that team.

He'd be supported by Draymond on defense. LeBron James has shown, has shown the willingness to defer in certain moments of games. It's highly unlikely to happen. I don't think that team would win in the Olympics. I don't even think that team, I wouldn't want to take that team to the Olympics with Kyrie. All right. Well, I mean, the bottom line here is though, like I said, this is highly unlikely to happen. But I read this as clutch trying to create leverage for the Lakers to go all in the top season.

You and the rest of everybody plays right into it by giving LeBron this leverage. He has no leverage on this. It's freaking Kyrie Irving. It's not like he's being recruited by Kevin to run. rant. You know what, Chris, this is,

this is my point. Kerry doesn't have a contract, Kevin? Chris, this is the point that I had in my Warriors article when I said,

hey, what if LeBron demanded a trade of the Warriors? My point in that article was that the Lakers don't have to listen to

LeBron. They're in a position right now where if they wanted to, they could take back the best offer for him, get a hall, flip AD,

and go full rebuild. They just won a title a couple of years ago. It's not like they haven't won in 25 years. They haven't won in just three years now. So I think for the Lakers that if LeBron makes these outrageous demands, like you have to pay Carrie Irving,

you have to do this, you have to do that, LeBron James, he's going to be 39 years old next season. And granted back in January, he was averaging 33 points per game, looked explosive and all that. He still needs to prove that he can stay healthy

into April, May, and you hope June. So I think for the Lakers side of things, If this gets ugly, if LeBron makes outrageous demands, you don't have to listen. And that's where things get very, very, very interesting this off season with his future. Whether it's in L.A. and I'm happy. This is all him wanting Kyrie, bro. Uh-huh. Yes. But if they say no, if they say no, that's where things get interesting. If you start saying no to LeBron James again, that's where things get interesting.

And to me, that's the big story here. And what I'm largely focused on, which is why I do think it is worth considering, hey, there's actually a path to this other stuff, these outrageous 2K-style plans and theoreticals, there's an actual path there, or he could end up unhappy in L.A. and pouting the whole year, sad, unless he's going to watch his son, Bronte at USC, get 12 minutes off the bench. So I think that's going to be the interesting thing here with LeBron James is what happens. How dare you? If you don't think that there's a deal that he's not starting every game and playing 30 minutes, you're out of your mind.

I'm kidding you. That's built into the NIL, bro. It is built in. The clutch and LeBron has a lot of sway there at USC. Can I just say that the Mavericks then showed up in another report where Mark Stein reported that they are gauging Jeff Van Gundy in the interest there as an assistant coach? I read that and I mean, say whatever you want about Jeff Van Gundy, okay? The idea that you had hired Jeff Van Gundy as an assistant coach to Jason Kidd without everyone in the free world sitting there going, you are hiring Jeff Van Gundy as an assistant coach for Jason Kidd

because in the case that you start off four and eight, he's going to be the head coach. Like if you want to hire Jeff Van Gundy, to fire Jason Kidd and hire Jeff Van Gundy, don't do this song and dance. To me, I hate when teams do this, and it's always so obvious. It is always so obvious that we have your successor

sitting there next to you in the case that this doesn't go the way we think it should go. And so, well, all I'm saying is, if you want to hire Jeff Van Gundy to coach that team, more power to you, hire him, get rid of Jason Kidd. But don't sit there and say, we're gauging his interest as an assistant coach for the team to bring him in to sit him next to Jason Kidd. and then, like, he's going to leave the booth to go be an assistant coach for the Mavericks. It would only be because he thinks he's going to be the head coach of the Mavericks. And that's just wildly unfair.

I think there's another path to. I think it's, that's plan A. Plan A would be you take that job hoping that Jason Kidd gets the axe and you become the head coach of the Mavericks. But number two, Chris, he hasn't been an NBA head coach. since the 0-607 season. And he's been out of the league so long at this point that he may need to take an assistant gig to get back into the rhythm of things

before becoming a real candidate next year. He's been calling games and studying game film every week for the last 15 years. And he's done assistant coaching for Team USA and all that. I know I get it. But he has. But he hasn't been in an NBA locker room, traveling with the guys, doing pro-personnel scouting, working with players, connecting with players. There's a dramatic difference between calling games for ESPN and ABC sitting next to Mike Breen and Mark Jackson.

Then there is being in a locker room with other coaches and video coordinators working with new technology. To me, I think Van Gundy, if he actually does want to return to coaching, which he's interviewed plenty of times in recent years but hasn't gotten jobs. He hasn't gotten those opportunities. He's still only 61 years old. He still get a lot of energy and life to him. Maybe he does need to take an assistant gig to have a path towards it. Whether that's replacing kid in Dallas or whether that's getting a new gig in a year from now, I think he's going to have to take an assistant route rather than get a full head coach and get gig immediately.

There's a 0% chance. I think he takes an assistant coach. You would just keep your lead analyst job on ABC, in my opinion. Why not? Maybe he's tired. Maybe he's sick of doing it. Maybe he actually wants to coach. I covered a situation exactly like this with Hubey Brown. Hubey Brown hadn't coached in like 30 years.

And he was the biggest analyst. And Jerry West hired him out of the analyst boot. Walked into Memphis. Second year wins 50 games and wins coach of the year. Coaches are coaches. Coaches are coached. I get it. I know.

He needs to go and be an assistant is. ridiculous. Guys a basketball coach. I mean, like I just pulled up Huey Brown. He coached in 86, 87, then 0203. Right. I would argue the world changed a lot more between 07 and 23 than it did between 87 and 02, culturally, personality-wise, technology-wise.

So much more has changed. Basketball, relating to people, is still relating to people. I know, I know. And 90% of these coaches are. coaches go to clinics that guys like Jeff Van Gundy put on to teach them how to coach basketball. I feel you, Chris. I'm just speaking from a front office perspective or if I'm hiring a new head coach. Like if I'm in that position, maybe I'd want someone who was in the game more recently.

Look, the argument to me would not be about coaching. It would be about relating to players. That's exactly what I'm saying. The basketball is exactly what I mean. I'd want them to be Tips gets by though Tips gets by Yes yeah

But we don't have many of the old school guys left We really don't Yep Like the real like that kind of more gruff My Way or the highway kind Not nearly as much Because it is different coaching

There's a lot more young players that play for you now And you got to have a lot more patience now than you did A lot of teams were veteran-laden back then. You coached men with wives and families. Now you coach a bunch of kids. Your best player might be 19 now. That just was not the case ever back in the day.

You know, a couple other things real quick. You see that Scoot video that was passed around everywhere about him working out in Portland? Nope. Oh, my God. Find that one. I don't know how you pass on this, dude. I don't know. He is just a specimen.

And you know I've loved him. I went and saw him in person this year. And you know what somebody told me that my buddy Devin, who works on my local show with me? He said that the kid is a very good actor. Did you know he's in that new LeBron movie on Peacock? He's one of his buddies. and I guess he has to like really act

and he's like he's actually really good in the movie and I was like how about that? Who would have guessed it? But that video they put out the minute long video of him working out in Portland holy mother just like top

1% athlete and just looks ready made size and strength wise for sure and I think I think he's going to be special, special, special, special. Wendy's a whole other deal for sure.

But I don't think that, I don't think he's a booby prize. I think that guy's going to, I will be stunned if Scoot is not an absolutely awesome NBA player. Guys just don't look like that and jump like that and they're explosive like that. And he's been playing against grown-ass men. I'm waiting for the day where you move him up to two. It's coming. I mean, I had him at two and then I moved him to three. I know you did.

You're going to come around. I don't think he's going to move back up. I don't. You don't? No. I think he's going to stay at three or, you know, he's not going to go up to two. Go watch that video. Oh, I mean, I just pulled it up.

And I did actually see it. It's like hitting open jumpers. I mean, there's a bunch of nothing. I mean, I saw the video. You can see what he looks like and you can see that level of athlete he is. Yeah, he looks great. Yeah, we know you can dunk on the open floor. It's not doing much of anything on that workout.

And your love for Brandon Miller will never die. I mean, I like scoot hunters and a lot too. He's number three on my board in an impressive class. You don't love him like you should love him. You love Brandon Miller. I do. I like them both very much. They also both have their flaws as players.

I wouldn't call either of a movie prize is not one bit. I think both of them are going to be very good players, and I hope they get drafted to the two ideal situations, whether it's Charlotte or Portland or a team that trades into one of those spots. Screeks seems to improve as a shooter. I mean, straight up. That's the easiest thing to improve, though. And his, I don't think it's a lot.

You can't fix the other stuff. You ain't going to become that level of athlete. I don't care how many box jumps you want to do. You can do a million box jumps and you ain't going to be like him. And you ain't going to look like him and you ain't going to. Yeah. No. That physical, you can't change that.

Guys can get in the gym and become shooters. We've seen it a million times with some of the best players in the world. no less that were not thought of as shooters. And then they ended up being. Finals next game is going to be Wednesday night. So we will reconvene later this week. And by that time, we'll know who is up to one in the series.

Thank you to our executive producer, Jesse Lopez, as always. Kevin, I will talk to you later this week. I'm looking for a Wednesday game three, Thursday night podcasts, Friday night. game four and then next Monday Chris game five we'll be recording after that one in a week from tonight so get a lot of fun have a good one