The Mismatch - Instant Reaction to the Kings-Pacers Trade

Episode Date: February 8, 2022

Kevin O’Connor, Seerat Sohi, and Logan Murdock got together on Greenroom to discuss today’s trade between the Sacramento Kings and Indiana Pacers, which sent Tyrese Haliburton, Buddy Hield, and Tristan Thompson to Indiana in exchange for Domantas Sabonis, Jeremy Lamb, Justin Holiday, and a 2027 second-round pick. Host: Kevin O’Connor Guests: Seerat Sohi and Logan Murdock Associate Producers: Jessie Lopez and Sasha Ashall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Ring or Gambling Show is here to help you place your bets on the biggest sports around the world. Join NFL analyst Warren Sharp on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays with guests Chris Vernon, Ben Solac, and Joe House to guide you through the NFL betting landscape. Each week, they'll cover everything from spreads, game totals, and parlays to player props, futures, post-game reactions, and more. Check out the Ring Your Gambling Show on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is an emergency podcast edition because of a massive trade between the Pacers and the Kings. The full details are this.

The Bont of Sabonis is going to Sacramento with Jeremy Lamb, Justin Holiday, and a 2027 second round pick for Tyrese Halliburton, Buddy Heald, and Tristan Thompson. This is a big deal for both of these franchises, considering how long Sabonis has been involved in trade talks, considering how long Buddy Heald has wanted out of Sacramento. And to talk about it, I brought on Seart Sohe, and then Logan Murdoch from the ringer to talk about it.

And we recorded this live on green room. So before Syrit got on and after her and Logan got off, I took questions from the chat, brought people on stage. We had a Q&A, talked about a whole bunch of stuff, and I will 100% be doing more green rooms, either Tuesday night, Wednesday, Thursday morning. Who knows? I'm going to be doing more of them before the NBA trade deadline

at 3 p.m. Eastern on Thursday. So stay tuned to my Twitter feed for that. or download the Spotify Green Room app and that'll notify you anytime I go live. And some of those will be posted on the mismatch or the Ringer NBA show feed. But, you know, not all of them will be. So stay tuned for those.

And otherwise, enjoy this conversation. I imagine this has been very much discussed, but I'm very stuck on the Thai Halliburton of it all. What has you stuck? How do you trade? I don't just, how do you trade him? How do you trade him? Like, they just,

this deal like I don't know I'm excited to go through the nuances of it I guess but right now on the face of it I'm looking at it and I'm like wow like the Kings traded Ty Halliburton and Buddy healed so they could maybe try to make a run for the seventh seed

you know so one of the things that I asked Nakayas and like I don't necessarily believe this but playing devil's advocate with myself and everybody here listening with the Kings here we view Tyre's Hallibis Burton as 21 years old and the second year of his entire NBA career. He's just at the beginning. He's already so good. Fox is out last month and he's averaging 21 points and 12 assists and he looks

great. And it's just this fun player who brings life to the floor and energy. Like he's just a joy to watch. But right now, Sabonis is better. Sabonis is the best player in the deal undeniably. Undeniably, he's the best player in the deal today as a two-time all-star. If you're the king, I wonder if privately they think, yeah, Hallibur is a really nice young player, but he's not going to be a top 25 guy. He's not going to be an annual all-star candidate. I wonder if privately they feel that way.

Why not is my question? But is there any logic to that if Sacramento does feel that way at all? Is there any logic to that? If they feel he's going to cap out as like a nice player, a winning player, but not an all-star player, and that they might say, what's everybody talking about? We got the best player in the deal. I mean, they could definitely think that, right?

Like, that's, you know, it's the Kings, right? They could definitely think that. But the way that I look at it, and I kind of look at every King's player this way, or every Young Kings player this way, is that, like, Ty Halliburton looks this good on the Kings, you know? Like, rookies aren't really even supposed to look that good on teams that are that dysfunctional, honestly.

Like a lot of the times like, you know, just we know how important player development and all those things are. So I think this is a win for him, right? Like that's like I feel like he'll like this is this is a win for, you know, Rick Carlisle. He'll get to, you know, coach Ty Halliborne, who's also, by the way, like just seems on all account somebody who has like the right habits as well, who came into this team with like with the right habits. And, you know, perpetually like, you know, from what I've seen so far early in his career, like, consistently made like incremental improvements. He's improved on last year's numbers. And like he's a really great playmaker. He's a really intuitive player. Like he's just he presents things to you that I just don't think you can get from, you know, your average young prospect, you know, like,

just the potential that he has because of the way that he reads the game. Um, he's, he's, he's, he's already like, you know, 10 times smarter than a lot of a lot of veteran NBA players. Uh, so I don't know. I just, I don't think that there's really like, it's way too early to put a cap who he can be. And on the other end of it, like, I agree, right?

I agree. But like that's just, it's just like trading. It's, they traded, I guess, like, you know, the future for the present,

but it just, it just doesn't really make that much sense. Yeah. I mean, I think you nailed it when you said Halliburons made these incremental improvements as a player. And the big knock on him coming into the NBA out of Iowa State as well, I mean,

he has all these great intangible qualities, but can he create his own shot off the dribble? And he, And he's become a guy where, I mean, I remember that game against the Sixers about a week or so ago. And he hits like these two crazy sidestep dribble jumper three-pointers with a defender right over him in like the fourth quarter. And like he does that consistently. He's got the floater for mid-range. He looks so smooth pulling up, just a traditional pull up from two.

Like I said, you get the floater. He just can't at this moment. He's not a guy who like really penetrates into the paint and draw. falls or really even finishes at a high level around the basket. But his handle is so much tighter. He uses hesitations. He can pull up from anywhere from different angles, different areas of the court. He just, like, I think Halliburton, in my own personal evaluation, he went from a guy that you feel a high level of confidence that will at least be a good role player or a very good player who impacts winning in a starting lineup. He went from that to, at least for me,

I felt like a guy that could potentially be one of your two or three best players. The best player on your team? No, I don't think so. I don't think Subonis is or can be that either. But Halliburton can be one of your best guys. And that's why like it's just my overall thought here is just just subonis is good. But Nakayas said it earlier. If you're trading Tyreys Halliburton, it feels like you're going to be getting back a top 10 to 15 guy.

Like you're trading up to that level with a team. that's rebuilding and they want to blow it up and Halliburton's the young player they want back. And Indiana isn't necessarily in that situation. They're more in a retooling phase. They're changing assets. They're not rebuilding here. So I don't know, man. I just don't feel good about it.

I don't feel good for second. I think you nailed it there about how it was, you know, like sometimes you do trade the present for the future, right? It was just what they got back. And that's no disrespect to Subonis. He is, like you said, he's the best player in this deal. And he's also, I mean, this is for Fox, like, going to be a really fun pick and roll partner, too. Like, there's an on-court thing about this that's actually, like,

it feels a little bit irrelevant right now, honestly. But it could also be pretty fun. We can, like, we can hit that later. But I think you nailed it just, you got to get more back if you're going to make this type of move. Like, if the Kings feel like there's a level of pressure on them, then you know kind of you got to go big game hunting then

if you have a prospect like like Caliburton and that's like the mode that you're in and that's just not really what they did but do you think that like maybe like I don't know if you've heard anything but like do you think that maybe you know with with the looking like Simmons might not be available

to like the the horde of teams that don't have James Harden could have changed things I think that's probably part of it. That's definitely going to be part of it here. If you're the Kings, maybe you just sit and wait. Bradley Beal, Damien Lillard.

I mean... We haven't even talked about Buddy Heald, too. No. It's not like Buddy Healed was just like a throw-in, like, whatever part of this deal. I wonder if there's a chance he could get flipped. Because with Indiana now, I could see them keeping him, but they also have a glut of, you know,

guards and slash wings in their back court now. You got Brogden, you got Duarte, you got Halliburton now. It just seems like one too many guys, which are so similar to the same as that situation, Buddy Heald was in with the Sacramento Kings, even Lance Davidson for that matter, getting minutes for them. So, I mean, they get a lot of guys in that backcourt, and I wonder if maybe Buddy Heald a guy that they could try to flip elsewhere. The Lakers still have interests

in Buddy Heald, but now they've got Malik Monk who's killing it there. I'm sure other teams would like Healed, but I mean, with him, Heald's decision making still needs to get better. His shot selection still needs to get better. His defensive focus and intense needs to get better.

I want to see Buddy Heald in a winning situation, because I still remember that dude at Oklahoma who did everything it took to win, who played hard and hustled and just brought energy to both ends at the court. And not that he was necessarily some defensive stopper because he wasn't in college, but he brought effort at least.

And that just has all gone away in the NBA. It's all gone. And it's not the level that it was before. And I'd love to see him get flipped to a contender here. Is there, not that we've heard anything specifically about Indiana doing that, but is there any team that comes to mind where you're like, oh, yeah, I'd love Buddy Heald on that roster. Yeah, I mean, honestly, like, when you put it that way,

and that's also what excites me about Halliburton going to go to the Pacers, too, and not that they've been great this year, but, you know, I don't really mind seeing somebody like Buddy Heald go through, like, the, I don't know, the, I guess, Rick Carlyle School of Discipline, right? But, like, as far as, as

as deals go, I honestly haven't thought about it that much. The Lakers are obviously number one in that, but, like, what do you think that, What do you think the Lakers could offer for healed at this point? I mean, it'd have to include Taylin Horton-Tucker. It'd be complicated, to be clear. Like, you'd need a third team involved in that situation. Horton-Torkew maybe goes to Indiana.

Then you get other small salaries like Kendrick Nunn that could go elsewhere. So it's not, it's not impossible for them to get healed. I'm just not sure that, like, I'd even want him necessarily. I've heard there's still interest there. but you got Malik Monk who's killing it and you're going to have to pay him as well this off season. So I don't know. I mean, I think we will probably hear some stuff. Again, this is just my gut. I haven't heard anything specifically myself, but I'd be willing to bed. We'll hear some stuff about Indiana trying to flip Buddy Healed elsewhere. They just have too many guys. But that backcourt

though that they have now, you got Halliburton and Duarte. That's something to build with there. I like that combination of players. They compliment each other so nicely. Yeah, I think Peel just kind of falls into the place that the rest of the kind of veteran guys on that roster are where I think Indiana, especially after getting Halliburton, is probably going to be even more incentivized to try to look for other deals where they can get more young assets because, like, you know, this really got them on the road. Like the Indiana side of this is really promising, you know, like they had a really tough

season and now, you know, they have one of the better prospects that you can have. and they also they also got back healed they can throw him into a pile with you know just like

the thing I really like about Indiana situation is that every single one of not every single one but you know you look at Brockden you look at Turner you look at healed even

like those are types of players that a team that is on the upswing would want right like they are players that you can kind of have faith

in like the skeletons of who they are holding up in the playoffs. Like every single one of those guys contributes to a winning team. They're not just like, you know, sometimes like teams, like the Kings actually kind of in a sense sometimes teams like have

veterans that you kind of got to squint your eyes for a little bit. But, you know, I just think this is actually, this is kind of getting the Pacers in a pretty promising place. Adam Weber in the chat said, can we talk about the Pacers attempting to tank for the first time in over

30 years? Our highest pick. That's a very good point. Highest picks since 1990 has been 10th, according to Adam. This is exactly what the kings aren't willing to do. Yeah. I've been thinking about this a lot lately. I've been thinking about this a lot in terms of, you know, the Pelicans as well. And a couple other teams that just won't tank, you know, when they have.

And all these teams, like, you know, you, oftentimes, and the Blazers are kind of in this, in this pool. Obviously, you know, they've had dame, so, you know, duh. But, you know, like, oftentimes, I think, like, these teams that are not willing to ever tank, I mean, they get stuck in mediocrity, but I think that's heightened now in a league where there's just so much wheeling and dealing. And if you just kind of accept your fate, like kind of take the road that the thunder have,

even the rockets have, and we'll see how that one goes, a little less faith than that one. And you can actually just like, you know, you can actually, you have a good shot then to make that process go really fast and actually make it fun for fans too, where they have, you know, a couple years of just hoping, hoping and, like, you know,

rooting for potential and being obsessed with the draft and all that stuff. And, you know, kind of make a quick road to recovery, I guess. And these teams that just won't do it, I feel like they're more hamstrung than ever, because everybody else is kind of just in a place where they know who wants what, and they want different things, and it's easy to make deals. Yeah, and now they're going to be in a position with Indiana right now. now they'll have brogden who could another movable guy if they wanted to move him because now you got haliburton and duarte in that back court uh like they could they could next season

let's say they have some lottery luck they could have haliburton duarte paolo bancaro like that's a young big three to build with and have as your foundation that you're going to be you know building around moving forward because with the pacer's that they've they've always been in the playoffs always like i i don't remember a time of my i'm born in 1990 i don't remember a time in my life the pacers weren't at least competitive and like this is they've just never won a championship um but with the pacer's are always competitive i i feel like that they are on a path now with halliburton and a potential top pick assuming they keep sliding down and assuming they get some lottery luck where like this could this like you said they could turn it around fasts and become a competitive

team again that has, that's in the playoffs or in the playing at the least. And then if Halliburton becomes a top 25 guy, if their draft pick becomes a top player, suddenly we're talking about them as, you know, a deep playoff threat. Like, it can happen fast. Just like Memphis, we're seeing that right now, like how quickly things can change with the development of young players. Like, if it happens quick, things can change overnight. Yeah, I agree.

At Memphis is actually a team that came to mind for me. What are, like, what are kind of some deals that you like for the Pacers going forward? I mean, I love Miles Turner. I'd still explore what's out there for him. Some of the injury concerns are real. He doesn't rebound at the level that I would like. And I think also with him, the shooting is fine. It's not great.

He wants a greater offensive role. I personally do not think he has the skill set for that. I believe it was with Jared Weiss over at the athlete. he said something like, oh, I've had the same role for years. I want to expand on my game. I just don't think he has that. That's just like no, a note shade or hate towards Miles Turner hair. But like his best skill set is protecting the rim, blocking shots, setting screens,

popping for three or rolling to the basket. Like those are his best skills. It's not being a guy who creates his own shot. If he wants a higher usage, I get it. But if he wants more post-ups and more ISO opportunities from the perimeter, it's not your game, dude. And in that sense, I think, with Indiana, I'd be curious to see what they could get for him.

If it's just a pick. So there is that report this week that maybe the Raptors could flip Gorin Dragich and a first round pick for Miles Turner. Does that make any sense, in your opinion, for the Pacers to just continue selling, getting draft picks and having more ammo in the draft? Yeah, that makes sense to me. You know, on the Turner point, I think. You know, it gets complicated with big men when they're continuing to play a defensive role in a team that isn't winning games.

Like, I think they just lose the incentive sometimes. Like, I think putting him in a situation, like, Toronto is a great, Toronto would be a great example where they have, you know, good player development within roles. Like, they really do want players to expand their games, but they also have it working within a framework of, you know, first of, you ought to, you ought to play defense. and you have to stick within your role to some extent. I think that could be really healthy for a player like Miles. I think his touch, I agree, like, you know, when you look at kind of the things that you look for in a big man to see if they should be expanding their offensive game

and seeing if they could kind of be a real interior presence, I think his touch definitely leaves something to be desired. I think, like, you know, he's just a little, you know, his footwork and he's just, you know, just doesn't really necessarily have the grace of a guy that you would think of being of being somebody who would like, you know, isolate and stuff. But at the same time, like, those things never really develop

unless there's an effort put into it. And I think oftentimes what happens with big men is that when they start off and they like, and it doesn't go well in the beginning, like guards continue to get those reps and big men just don't. So, like, I like putting him in like a good developmental situation like that where he'll kind of get to consistently just, make slow expansions on his game because I do think that as like a side,

like as a utility piece, he has more to offer than what he's been able to. There was a comment in the chat from Greg Waddell saying Fox plus the bonus is a top blank duo in the NBA. We got response from Adam Weber says top 50. Mike Sweeney says top 30. Leo Cat. Top 20, my man, that's probably the only serious response there. I'm going to bring on our friend

Logan Murdoch, who also in the chat responded saying, please, please bring me on. Maybe he wants to give a response to how does this Fox Subonis duo rank in the NBA? I'm in a sick place right now, guys, because I have just gotten back from just a glorious hike. I went and I saw, you know, it was beautiful, cleared my mind, had some real great times. And I come. I'm back to my own and I see this egregious trade that the kings have made. What the hell are the king's doing? What are the kings doing? Okay.

I just feel like every single time they make a trade, I haven't even fully looked at it. I just know Buddy Hill is going to Indiana. I know Tyrese Halliburton is going to Indiana. By the way, you can check out a Tyrese Halliburton feature that I did on Theringer.com. You guys go check that out. But why in the hell would you? trade the farm for Subonis? I just don't see that. I know when the Kings have a real love affair with a player, they just get them by any means. But that is one of the most dysfunctional organizations

I've ever been around. I love some people in the organization. I do. But this is just egregious, man. I don't know if this is going to work out, but I don't think it will. There's so much, there's so much dysfunction right now. And I just feel for Subonis, why would they do that? Why would they get rid of a piece? I think they could have built with the guy like Tyrese Halliburton. They could have, they could have, I'm sorry, I'm just in a very bad place. Please, somebody help. Somebody just help. I'm not in a good place right now.

This is sad. This is a sad time. Is there like Kings fandom in you? No, there's not Kings fandom in me. I just, you know, the proximity to Sacramento and to the Bay has just, I've seen a lot of Kings games. I interned around, around Sacramento when I was a kid. I remember one time that when the Malukes owned the franchise,

when during a game, a advertisement fell onto the floor because they had to cover said advertisement because they didn't want, they couldn't get sponsorship deals, and it fell on the floor during a game and Coach Kewsmart had to pick it up during the middle of the game

to take it off of the court because it just showed how much dysfunction that they had in their organization. Sir, I am not a Kings fan. I did not grow up at Kings fan. I just feel for that fan base, man. They are just mired in mediocrity, and I don't think that it'll ever be better. I just don't.

At the beginning of this chat with Sierra and I was playing devil's advocate, I'm going to do that again here. I'll be having a Ben Kent. Ben Kent in the chat says, Sacramento is two games out of a playing spot. Not saying this is the smartest move long term by any means, but this is a win now move for the 13 seed team, question mark, question mark, question mark, question mark. It is a win now move here. and this is a team that has a mandate to get into the postseason. Does this make them better, though, Logan? I don't know if it remains to be seen if it makes them better,

but the Kings every year that they try to make a trade like this when they did it with Harry B to get him during the backstretch didn't really work out because it speaks because they're not building anything. They're trying to put Band-Aids on something that they... I think in a perfect world, they should break it all down and figure it out, but it starts from the front office. They're a dysfunctional group. And it shows when you hire someone like Luke Walton

who hasn't really proven anything as a coach in this league, then you don't make a decision during the off season after you get a new general manager and put Alvin Gentry in to basically be a lame duck coach. You know, and then now you're saying, oh, we want to go to the post season. There's never any plan in Sacramento. I think that that's the biggest thing that I'm struggling with KOC and Syrac

is that there's never really a plan. and I think this is just a band-aid to an overall bigger problem that they have. They've drafted a great guy in Halliburton that you can, I don't think he's a star necessarily, but those are foundational pieces that you could put together to, you know, to build something long-term. And I just don't see them even going to the postseason. They're going to do all of this for, what, a playing game,

that they're probably not going to make it into the postseason. This is just, this is not a forward-thinking move. in a franchise that never really has a plan. And I think that that was frustrating to me out of all this. I've just been perusing the King's Reddit for the last minute or so. Logan, if you're looking for more catharsis, I think that's the place to go and find it. I'll give you guys a little snippet.

There was one that was just, I got to give it to them for the creativity. There's a King's logo in the middle with, it says Kings. and then on on the left of it it's like it's F-U-C and then it's Kings and then T-U-P-I-V so it's like you know

fucking stupid with just using the King's logo it was it's truly it's it's an artistic masterpiece honestly like I've been I've been reading about drawing your anger and I think this this is just did it to a T hmm

that sounds like a very dark place Kings Reddit But yeah, thank you for your service here. That was rough. But that's been, the Kings aren't going to get any better off of this trade. I don't have to look at it on paper. They don't have a plan. They're not going to, I don't think that they're going to make it.

I don't think it's going to happen. I got a lot of love for people in the King, some people in the King's organization. I got a lot of love for the King's fan base. And I just feel sorry. And I'm just really sad for them. Yeah, that's all I had to say. I miss you guys. Hope you guys are doing good.

We're doing great, Logan. Well, thank you, too, for joining. I'm going to take some quick calls before we end this thing. But it was wonderful to talk with you all. Good times, guys. I'll see y'all soon. Good times, man. Thank you to Sir at Sohe and Logan Murdoch for joining.

This was recorded live on Green Room. Had a ton of great discussions, and I look forward to doing more of those. Let me know if you'd have any interest in hearing those get posted on these feeds with the Q&As that I do. I think they're a lot of fun. I really enjoy them. So yeah, let me know on Twitter, Instagram, wherever you're on social media. And thanks again for listening. Thank you to Jesse Lopez and Sasha Ashall for producing.

Really appreciate it. I hope you have a fun day. Enjoy the deadline. I'm fired out. I'm ready to go. I want a big blockbuster. I'm ready for Ben Simmons for James Harden. Let's make it happen.

Let's go, baby.