The Mismatch - Is Jokic Having the Greatest Season Ever? Plus: Best Outcome for the NBA Cup, Who Could Be This Year’s Breakout, and Trade Rumors.

Episode Date: December 10, 2024

Verno and Jacoby briefly go through Monday night's Knicks win over the Raptors, Nikola Jokic’s absolute monster season so far, and the recent news about a new possible league in Europe (01:06). Next, the guys have five questions about the NBA this season, including the best possible outcome for the NBA Cup, and their first thought when thinking about Chris Paul, who just passed Jason Kidd for the NBA's all-time assist record (20:12). They then discuss the latest trade rumors involving Brandon Ingram, Jimmy Butler, and more (01:01:48). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Chris Vernon and David Jacoby Producer: Jessie Lopez Social: Keith Fujimoto Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Okay, this is a true story. I have a friend who once faked his own death so he could have more time to watch his favorite TV show. In my new podcast, Truthless, I'm talking to people about the lies they tell, from forging new identities to taking their love of Game of Thrones a little too far. From Spotify and the Ringer podcast network,

I'm Brian Phillips. Listen to Truthless on Spotify or wherever. for you get your podcasts. Welcome to The Mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon and join a me as he does every week from the ringer.com is Dave Jacoby. Jacobi. It's NBA Cup season, Berno. NBA Cup season is here.

Oh, you're ready. City's on fire. Everyone's taking tomorrow off of work. It's crazy. Well, let's get to last night first. We'll get to the most recent things first, which is you threatening to do harm to yourself if your beloved Knicks lost to the Toronto Raptors, such a swing of emotions

where on one hand, you have R.J. Barrett, who you once had love for, having a 30-point game and making some plays. You have a guy named Jacoby having his breakout for the Toronto Raptors, and yet you were in absolute misery even after a Knicks win in the only game

that was going on in the NBA last night. good teams beat bad teams right that's what's something that like we always say about the NBA but really good teams don't trail for the entire damn game and then pull it out at the end against the bad team it was a very frustrating experience Jacoby it's cup week it's a perfect look ahead game look ahead game that's what it works look at look at head game all right can we talk about what you guys have done to Carl Anthony towns what has happened here to where this guy is making two huge plays down the stretch, hitting a dagger,

and then going over to the Toronto crowd, popping his jersey yelling effing New York, to like random businessmen, like in their 70s sitting in the front row, and they're kind of pointing at him and laughing too. They're like, what, why is he yelling at me? Why is this man yelling at me?

I was hoping it was Drake. It evidently was not Drake. No, it was not. It was not. It was just like, old white dudes with their legs crossed and like hard bottom shoes on being like, uh, this is odd. Okay.

So is this, let me just say, one of the things that ran through my mind last night as a fan of a small market team, watching that play out, watching him hit that dagger, watching him run over to the sideline, pop in the jersey, yelling at the New York.

that would break my heart if I were a Timberwolf fan. It would. I mean, the best example would have been like Martin Assall when he went and played for Toronto and they won the title. Or Mike Conley when he was playing in Utah or even now Minnesota or, you know, Zach Randolph or Tony out, like any of those guys. If I would have seen any of those guys that I spent a decade watching every night caring about, walking over, pop in the jersey saying, yeah, New York, New York. Oh, my gosh. Well, he didn't show that sort of love for Minnesota, and he spent a decade there. You know what I mean?

Like, it would drive me crazy. Well, listen, he's in a huge market, and it really helps that he's playing well. You know what I mean? It really helps that he is sort of like unlocked his game to another level. And it felt like, I think in his mind, and this is just him speaking, and his own narrative in his head is, they held me back in Minnesota. And now I'm being optimized. Look what I can do, Minnesota. New York, biggest stage, one of the biggest cities and one of the marquee franchises of the NBA, I'm hitting big shots to bring them to wins.

This is me. This is the real me. This is the real Carr Anthony Towns that you've been missed. That's how he feels. That's how he feels. It feels like a wrestler act. It does. A little bit.

He does have trouble with authenticity. Like it's not, well, this is not our first encounter with Carl Town. He's been around for a long long time. But look, he's feeling it. And look, no matter what he said, the guy is playing absolutely out of his mind, out of his mind. And the confidence, I mean, that was a catching shoot. I'm winning this game. I'm like alpha dog in this.

It was crazy. I mean, I'm like, the whole experience has been wild. He has been so far and above anybody's possible expectation of how it would go in New York. And like you said on the last pod, just a seamless integration, an absolutely seamless integration. And when he gets those catch and shoot threes, I'm shocked when he misses them. And I remember, remember that before the three-point contest, he actually came on Jaylon and Jacob. He was like, I'm going to win the three-point contest.

And we were like, oh, hey, I love the confidence, whatever, but kind of snickered when the recording was over. And he won the three-point contest. Like, I don't know. It's a great start, and I feel great watching him. I don't feel great about watching this team struggle to beat the Raptors. But, you know, there's only one game on. And the football game was pretty good, too.

So I was kind of clicking back and forth between the two of those. But it was a good win for the Knicks, build some momentum to a huge game against the Hawks, which we'll discuss. later in the show. All right. So. One more thing I need to get to before we move on.

This is very important to me. There's something happening in Toronto that has been fascinating to me and has not been discussed enough. It's not R.J. Barrett. And it's not Scotty Barnes, who heard himself look pretty bad yesterday. What's happening in Toronto that we need to discuss

briefly, because we're at the top of the pod, is Bruce Brown's cowboy outfits. Like, what is going on? So I looked at this and I was like, Is he from Texas? Did he grow up on a ranch? He's from Boston. He's from Boston.

He dresses like, he dresses like an Elmer Fun, like a cowboy. He looks like someone who moved to Dallas and, like, wanted to fit in with the locals. He looks like, he looks like someone in Los Angeles that's going to a theme party. But it's awesome. He looks awesome. I love him. I love him. I love him.

I love him. since we last spoke, Nicola Yokic had played in two games, Jacoby. He had 104 points, 30 rebounds, and 16 assists.

One of those, yeah, one of those was a loss to the Wizards. One of them was a 30-point win in Atlanta. By the way, that is coming off of his Thursday night performance against Cleveland, where he had 27 points, 20 rebounds, and 11 assists.

His averages are now up to 32, 14, and 10. Oh, my God. And I went and looked at it years ago, my friend, John Holliger, before analytics became all the rage. And now we have come to the point where people poll coals in player efficiency rating. And they say there are much better things in order to judge a player by than P.E.R. But John put together this formula for PER. And I've always thought it is a reasonable gauge. Sure, it has its faults.

But also, when you would look up and down the list, generally what you would find is it was a good indicator of who had the best seasons. And even throughout history, who had the best seasons, like for a long, long time, the number one season. of all time was 1961, 1962, Wilk Chamberlain, right? And now you have looked at,

and I went to go take a quick look. Number five for the best season ever on that list is Janice Antecoe in 1920. Number four is Janus in 2021. Wait, Janus played in 1920? No, no, no. 2019, 2020. Janus in 21, 22 is number four.

6162 is number three. Yokic in 2122 is number two. And the number one season of all time in P.E.R. so far is Nicolaeokic 24, 25. He is having the greatest season ever that has ever been played, at least through the first quarter of the season. it is absolutely bonkers. And as someone who watched Washington, the next night play against Memphis, it is unfathomable to me how they ever got a win

against anyone ever. There's a wire to wire win. It was a wire to wire win. I mean, it was like, it got to get down to like eight points in the fourth quarter, and that was it. Yonukes had 56. I have no idea.

honestly, I must tell you, not really locked into Wizards basketball. But as I watch, I mean, Memphis didn't even play John Morant or Desmond Bain. And if they wanted to have won, if they wanted to win by a hundred, they could have won by a hundred. It was crazy to watch. And I'm like, how did this? Who? How? I almost feel like I need to go back and watch Denver versus, Denver versus Washington.

just to see how that happened. There used to be a 30 for 30 about it. What if I told you that a guy would have 56 points against the worst team ever but lose? I'd watch it. So it's really a function of Aaron Gordon and Jamal Murray not be available. Because, I mean, the nuggets, we've discussed this, and it's a known thing.

They're not exactly the deepest team in the NBA. And with those two out, there just aren't too many bucket getters. there. But one of the things watching Yokin's performance in this game and against the Hawks that stood out to me, which you're going to love, Bruno, there's like some real chemistry between Westbrook

and Yokich and these pick and rolls. Like, Westbrook understands the assignment. He's like, I've got a nuclear weapon here. Like, I'm just going to do what I can to get him the ball in positions to shoot. And he had 12 assists against the Wizards, and I'm going to guess

that nine of those were to Yokin. I'm going to guess 10 of those where to Yokic, and he had 11 assists against the hops. And I think that without Murray in the lineup, Resbrook was basically like, let me help this man because he is the sole driving fuel in this engine.

Let me help him get his buckets. But Yolkish taking 39 shots in the game, which is what he took to get to the 56, I just never thought I'd see it. I mean, it's obviously a career high, but it's just like not what he's put on this planet to do on a basketball court. Their record is good with

Westbrook in the start of lineup. I'll just leave that at that. I know you love Westbrook. There's real chemistry between those two. There's real chemistry. I just like, I've always had a thing for guys that I believe raised the collective of play. So many times people look at this individual and they say, here's what he's doing individually, without acknowledging the impact that he has on the rest of his team.

And what I have found to be true is that Westbrook, is one of those guys that is playing so hard and cares every single night whether or not he wins, that it has an impact on the others, that it is very hard to see guys dogging it when they are playing alongside him. He has incredible faults. There's no doubt about it. But I've also felt like he's never gotten credit for the impact that it has on other guys around him, that he cares. He cares. He cares what happens that night.

And it's hard for that not to be contagious. And I feel like Jamal Murray is, you know, he's coming back from an injury and, you know, not playing up to the sort of championship level that he was a couple of years ago. But I feel like Jamal Murray tries to help Yokic by taking on some of the scoring burden. And I think Westbrook tries to help Yokch by making his scoring easier, by feeding it to him in good spots. and I think that they could each bar a little bit from each other. But we don't need more of Westbrook shots. But I did like in these two games, just the way that Westbrook was like,

I've got the best player in the league on my team. Let me help him be the best player in the league. A couple other news items that we need to get to. There's a story that came out about the NBA and FBA in talks about maybe putting together a basketball league. I guess some things have fallen apart on the FBA side. and so now Adam Silver is involved in this, and they're saying it's very serious talk,

so there would be basically an NBA endorsed. Now, the one thing is, it's interesting. FIFA does the player development thing better, and it's actually one thing that Adam Silver kind of acknowledged. You know, that the benefit of this is, on one end, it's money and exposure for Euroleague basketball, right? Getting the NBA involved and getting their brand bigger and promoting their brand and all of the things that the NBA can bring to the table.

On the other side, it seems to me that not only with the globalization of the game, but also a pilfering of how do y'all do this is something that is interesting to Adam silver because they've already tried it with the Nike and the USA basketball, whatever else, but it's like you guys are unbelievable at identifying potential professional basketball players, teaching professional basketball players, and then accentuating their talents. And that's why so many of them are so much more skilled and so much better at playing team basketball. And I've read a lot about this in the past. And one of the things it's always fascinating to me to hear coaches talk about is to say, we've got it all backwards. Like there,

they practice five, eight times. And then they have a game. We play five or eight games and then might have a practice. Ask any retired NBA player how they feel about the AAU development system. And then you can just lay out the next five minutes to listen to them rant about it because AAU is now being branded as like the problem with developing American basketball players. And one of the things that they do out there in the Euro League that have sort of an academy style thing. Like, you know, you can be like on Fibonacci when you're like seven years old. You know what I mean?

Like you'll you'll have like a, like a, you know, a Madrid jersey and be 10. Like one of my buddy's kid is good at soccer. And this summer, he's like, oh, he's going to go train with Arsenal in New Jersey. And I was like, what? Arsenal, New Jersey? He's six years old, Verno. He's six. And I think that one of the things the NBA is studying is this sort of, you know, academy-style development system.

Because I don't know enough about developing professional athletes. You know what I mean? But people hate the way it's done with AAU. And there's so much focus on individual scoring. And as you mentioned, games, not even winning games, just playing well in games and being recruited and getting into the system and getting noticed and getting scouted, and there's not a lot of focus on actual fundamental player development. I think that they're going to make an adjustment here in the States.

But in terms of these like negotiations, I don't know exactly how the EuroLeague works, but it's like a conglomerate of 18 teams. And I think like there's a bunch of them that are fixed 13 permanent teams in it, and then five wild car teams that play in. But I also didn't know they're kind of like in the contract year the Euroleague is. So I think the- Two of the teams that are coming out. of it, then letting it expire.

So Silver sort of sees an opportunity, sort of like using chaos as a ladder. I think that getting that NBA logo around the world would be very savvy for the NBA. And something tells me that we'll see something like that. It would be interesting to see the way it plays out. A couple other things that we do need to mention is over the weekend,

you were texting me while the Grizzlies were playing against the Boston Celtics. I have many times. I'm not going to go into the, this very much, but I mean, it was weeks ago while they were, I think, 11th or 12th in the standings. You laughed me off the show for saying they'd be the number one seed. I think they've won nine of 10. They've, I think they're in second place right now, already in the Western Conference and a win over the Boston Celtics with one of the most unbelievable Jammarant

dunks after we reported on the show Friday. He had said he's not going to dunk anymore. He instead chose to do the most awesome dunk. Moran, behind the back. Bain steps back. Moran, ball fake. Oh, the reverse flash. What did we just see, partner? He said, I'm not going to dump, but he threw that one through.

That's like when you wake up after a big Friday night on Saturday, you're like, I'm not drinking tonight. Yeah. In the morning, you're like, I'm not drinking tonight. You know. And there's six o'clock rolls around. You're watching college football. I'll have a couple.

Why not? That's what it felt like. Yeah, that's what it felt like, I'm not going to dunk. I'm not going to dunk. good for me. But when he sees the opportunity, he sees the opportunity. And I did laugh at you and you said they'd be the number one seed. And I did look at their recent success

and say, not exactly the stiffish competition. You know, they'd be like the kings at home. And then this Celtics game was really like, all right, let's see what you have. And Berno, what did we see? What did they have? I mean, John Moran almost had a triple double in the first half.

Against one of the best defensive teams. Darren Jackson couldn't be stopped. Nine possessions in a row. I mean, I don't know. You tell me, I tried to get you on the train. I tried to. I tried. So don't ever say I didn't try.

No. We'll see. It was a big win. I think that's a really, really, really good win for a team that needed one. You know, because I think there was some people looking at their sort of recent success. You know, you go through the wins and you're, you've been, you've seen every single one. You know what I mean? You've seen every single one.

It's not exactly, like, you know, not a lot of, like, teams are in the playoffs last year. I'm going to tell you this. There's 10 of them in a row. row, nine of which they won, and the one they didn't win, the other team got 26 free throws in the fourth quarter. So, okay. Could be 10. Just data.

Just data. I'm just telling them. Just data. It's just facts. It's not your opinion. It's just facts. Just reporting the facts. Let's get to five questions.

We got the NBA Cup beginning tonight, Jacoby. Question number one. What would be the best outcome for the NBA? in terms of the way this plays out. We have Thunder Mavs, Bucks Magic, Tonight. We have Knicks Hawks, Rockets Warriors, tomorrow night. The best case scenario for the teams that then end up meeting up in Las Vegas is what? Well, in the East, the magic, unfortunately, you know, with the injury to Franz, the oblique twins out there, it's just a bummer.

And, you know, I don't think they're going to put up much. I mean, listen, I'm not going to say upsets are impossible. We've all seen it in sports for our entire lives. But it will likely be the bucks that will advance there. And I think for the sake of the league, it could not have been better to have Trey Young against the Knicks in the Garden. But I think that having the, you know, the orange and blue of a resurgence New York City backed Knicks team is who they want to come out of the east there. And I think in the West, it's clearly sort of, as you said, like, for the league, for interest, or significance for ratings,

Steph Curry against the Knicks. Is Steph Curry in the last few years of his career going up against the Knicks under the lights of Las Vegas playing for the cup, I think would be the ideal scenario for this tournament for the league. Is that what I personally want to see? Not exactly. But I think that would be ideal for the league,

which is a question you asked. You think the Curry, I'm sorry, the Knicks market stardom, as it were, is bigger than the Janus stardom. Because it's fair to say, the biggest star remaining in the Eastern Conference, if we're doing the star thing, is Janus. Yes. And Janus and Lillard were there last year. Obviously, they got beat by Indiana. Yep. And I think the way LeBron was the rising tide that floated all the.

boats and the interests, I think that Steph Curry can do the same. He's one of the biggest, probably the second biggest world round star in the league, second to LeBron. And so to have him involved in that. Also, having a, having a California team wouldn't hurt in terms of maybe, and a team that has

both of those teams, I'm actually going to agree with you on this because I was there last year. And they, I thought got super saved by the fact that the Lakers made it. Because the Lakers are a worldwide brand and people could come straight from California to Las Vegas very, very easily. Oh, yeah. And go to the game.

And so that was one of the things that I thought. And so it's like the big, because if it would have been, because you had other teams there, you had Indiana there, you had New Orleans there. And it was like, man, this is like, I mean, the arena was like the Lakers invitational for sure. And you're going to have a ton of Lakers fans. But I will say because it is in Las Vegas and because you're trying to make this a big deal on a big stage, how many Dunder fans, Mavs fans, Bucks fans, Rockets fans, you know, are you going to get there? Whereas, like, the Knicks and the Warriors have big national brands that would both be able to pack out that arena. And I think you would have a good mix of both of those teams.

I would just say they've made it very, very hard for you as a fan. Let's just say you're in one of these markets. I wouldn't feel comfortable buying a ticket right now. Right. Say I'm a big thunder fan. I mean, I've got to plan a trip to Las Vegas. after this all plays out, right? Like, I mean, I got to figure out what I'm doing my job.

And you're just never going to get. Not only that is it, there's a, you don't know, there's the 14th and the 17th. And you don't know if your team is going to play in both of those games either. Right. Right. And there is the danger of the 16th, the off day. I can't stay in Las Vegas for three days anymore. It's just not, it's not good for my help.

I might not make it. I might not make it out. And like the two off days for this fan base in Vegas. So do you have to plan a trip to Vegas last second? You have to have a contingency plan to stay in Vegas longer. Oh, I used to have to do this. I used to go to the NCAA tournament every single year. I would follow the Memphis Tigers wherever they went.

And I can't tell you how many years they lost in the first round. And it was just the absolute worst. I would drive to Tulsa, Oklahoma. I would fly to Auburn Hills to Detroit, Michigan. I would go to wherever, wherever they were. Columbus, Ohio. The worst was Columbus, Ohio. I went to Columbus, Ohio, and they lost in the first round.

And then we wake up on Saturday, you know, because your game would be, it's like a Friday, Sunday deal. And so you're there. You know, you get there on Thursday. Now you got the game on Friday. You're watching all these games. And then on Saturday, you just got to turn around and come back instead of sticking around until Sunday until the game's out. And like you said, I mean, it's going to always be hard. And so the bigger national brands they have, they got bailed out last year by the Lakers making it all the way to the end.

They're Laker fans everywhere. Oh my God. Oh, my God. Bro, if that would have been Indiana versus New Orleans. Well, if you get Rockets Hawks, something like that this year. Oh. I mean, just for making this a big deal. I mean, look, they make it all dark.

and they make it look like a stage and everything. But, you know, you want there to be an environment. Did it feel like an All-Star game crowd or did it feel like a sort of a fan? It felt like a Lakers crowd. Yeah, I bet it did. Yeah. The Warriors could bring those out too. Well, look, the first game was amazing, but it felt very weird.

It was in the middle of the afternoon. and there was like, yeah, it was a, that was Indiana, Milwaukee, which was a great game and the Halliburton, you know, barking at Milwaukee and all that. But it was like in the, you know, it was in the middle of the day. And then they kind of clear out the arena and then you go back and it was night and day. Truly night and day. You walk back into that arena and it was just purple and gold everywhere. I mean, it was a Lakers home game.

against the Pelicans. And they beat them by a thousand. So I didn't realize this until Sunday night. The Lakers have beaten the Rockets 15 straight times. I'm sorry, the Warriors have beaten the Rockets 15 straight times. And that's the matchup in the West. 15 straight games. Well, and you have that whole Tari Easton-Dremon Green Smoke now.

I love it. So the idea that these teams could end up, like, what you want is for these teams to be highly competitive and for this to start some real smoke between these teams, whether it's Thunder Mavs, whether it's Bucks Magic, like all of these teams, we don't have some kind of

outlier unless you want to count the Hawks as an outlier. But we've already got, but with that one's already built in because we've got it. And you had the Thunder Mavs where it was a seven game series last year. And then, you know, Rockets Warriors, there's a, is sort of like this big brother,

little brother thing where the little brother's kind of like You know, when there's two-year gap between two siblings, and they get into their teens, they're late teens. It's all of a sudden those one-on-one games look a little different, and that's sort of starting to feel like it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, we still never beat the Big Brother, but like, we're getting better and better, closer and closer. And that's what it feels like.

I think there's a lot of intrigue in this tournament beyond just people like us that are obsessed with the NBA. And I've noticed that amongst my friend groups who are just like sports fans. And you isolate these games on a Tuesday and Wednesday night, where you're not going up against the NFL. There's only two games, one game at a time. It feels bigger. National TV.

It just feels bigger and better. And I can feel it not just amongst myself and NBA nerds like us, but amongst sort of casual sports fans, it has been growing momentum. And I'm excited about the games. It is such a colossal bummer what's happened with the magic. I mean, it's... That's the done.

Is oblique transplants a thing? Is it like a kidney? Can we do something? It's so crazy because that is generally a baseball injury. And we have seen, you know, Desmond Bain did it first. And he has not been the same since he has come back from this oblique injury. When did he have one? Was it last year?

No, this year. Oh, well, he came back. He, correct. But he had one. And then everybody was like, that's kind of a baseball injury. It's very weird. We don't really have much of a database for it, whatever else. Paolo did it the next night.

The next night, he did his oblique. And then obviously this past week, we've got Franz Wagner. My only history with obliques is it's bizarre. I've got love handles. So it's like we've been working out. You've got to work those obliques. Get rid of these love handles. You need some more core training, I think.

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All right, question number two, if there is a Halliburton, meaning a massive breakout that the Emirates Cup provides us, you know, look, when I landed in Vegas last year, I was in shock disbelief as I walked around town, And I mean, there were just these huge, like, building sides posters of Tyrese Halliburton everywhere. And I was like, whoa, they were really making a bit, you know what I mean? Like, he's the one they're pushing, right?

He's the new, he's the new thing. If there's a Halliburton, like a breakout guy. And this is the other reason that the magic would apply to this as well. A couple of their guys would apply to this, right? This could be the big palo coming out party outside of, you know, what happened in the playoffs last year in their series against Cleveland where he had some good games. But if there is a Halliburton, who are some names it could be? So you mentioned the magic.

I'm going to take them off the board, right? I don't think Jaylen Suggs is going to score 40 in the next couple of games. By the way, did you read that article about Jonathan Isaac after the Franz injury? No. So Jonathan Isaac, you know he's like a minister, right? Yeah, of course. But called a team meeting, a player's only meeting, and said, look, we're going through, it right now, we've lost both

Paulo or lost Franz, this team's got to rally behind Jalen Suggs. I love it. That's the guy and all of us. Right now this is, we, you know, when it was Paulo, when Paulo went down, right? Obviously

Franz was able to carry us along and now that we have lost now that we've lost Franz too we need we need to all rally behind Jalen Suggs in this moment. And then they beat the Sons. The Suck.

And Suggs had 26. Huge game. But he had an all-around team. And somewhere in the back of the room, Goga Potazi was like, this is bullshit. This is my team now. I'm the captain now.

To answer your question, if you look at the team, they're in this. I took this seriously. Like, who's going to be a breakout star? The Hawks are powered by Trey Young, right? So I would think Jalen Johnson would be a possibility there. But it's a Trey Young team. Yonis, you know, it's a Janus Dame team.

And we, and it's a cat, it's a cat Brunson team. So I just took the east off the board. And then you can kind of do the same thing. It would be, it would be a Trey reintroduction. Because he is falling. He is falling back, right? Lost the shoe deal. He's, you know, not made the All-Star team, not made all NBA.

Like he's fall, you know, he's kind of, if he like threw the hawks on his back, did it in the garden, then they would make a big deal out of him again. Yeah, I can see that. A reintroduction. You can make a case. Allow me to read. Well, that probably isn't the week to sing that. Just move on. Yeah, we'll move on.

But I think that's, that is a possibility. And then if the warriors, you know, like comminga maybe, but I landed on Alpern-Shingdon. Oh, come on. Stop. What do you mean? Come on. You answer the question then. You said Trey Young.

Like he's not an all-star every year. He's not. He's falling off. Oh, please. You said Trey Young. You said a breakout star. I did not. Okay, fine, break-out star.

A breakout star. Shangoon. Okay, then it would be Jalen Johnson, right? Would be the breakout. Yes, Jalen Johnson. He would be the guy for the Hawks. Yes. If he caught a bunch of lob,

hit a bunch of threes, blocks, and, you know, and put up some highlights. But I think Shangoon has got an aesthetically pleasing game. He is a basketball nerd guy. And that's how you break out. The general public is never going to care about Alper and Schengen. That's why he's the answer to this question, Garno. No, if they're going to care about something, it would be Jalen Green. Jalen Green has the opportunity to be the one that kids won.

I've been waiting for Jailen to Green for so long now. I really have. Who are you, who are you, Raphael Stone? I really, it's just like some of the efficiency numbers on him, I'm like, oh man, I'm really trying to back this guy.

You kind of pick guys that you love. He was one of the guys I picked that I love because the highlights are amazing, but when you watch the games, all of his highlights come in transition. Like, he just doesn't really have a half-court game. If you look at efficiency numbers, it's like, oh, this is not great.

You know, like he's great on Twitter. He's great algorithm. He's great on Instagram. He also has the opportunity to jump over a guy. Yes. He's a great Instagram basketball play. Yes. Like if you don't watch games and you just like sort of follow accounts,

you'd be like Shail and Green. He's an amazing Instagram basketball player. It's like Ben Simmons every summer. But it's tough sometimes. Sometimes it's tough watch like in a half court set and he tries like operate. But I have Shangoon because he has the, you know, he's having a career, year. His numbers are up in everything. And he has highlight passing ability. And he can give you 30 a game and have 10 points in the last four minutes of the game. All right. How about on the

other side of that game? Maybe comminga. Caminga would be the one. He's had some huge games recently. And so if this was like a, okay, the Warriors don't need to go find a third star. He was hiding in plain day, you know what I mean? Plainside all along. that would be if we should we know we should we should we should pull out a candidate for each team i think it's johnson we can't do the magic sugs for the magic so i can see that happening yeah um the dairy bird dairy bird on milwaukee stop i just wanted to say dairy bird into my girl a j green they're calling dairy bird up there i don't i mean milwaukee's gonna be there's not one for Milwaukee. And for the for the

Knicks it would be Oji and Oby. For the Thunder. You think OG? I mean, just to break out like Cat and Brunson have broken out. You know what I mean? Like no one's going to be like, wow to just this Brunson guys better than I thought. And everybody's and everybody's well aware of bridges. I don't think there's anybody from Milwaukee.

Maybe Miles McGraths. Miles McBride of my baby. Oh, yeah. That'd be fun. Yeah. If he popped off. Thunder? Who did you pick for the Thunder? Wait, wait. You didn't pick. I'm surprised you didn't pick the leading three-point shooter in the NBA for Milwaukee. What if this is the big breakout for Taurine Prince? I don't think so.

I don't think so. I don't think that's going to happen. When someone said he was leading the league in three-point percent, I was like, really? I had to look it up. I was like, is this some sort of like attempts thing that we're moving? He's shooting 54% for three. The guy is auto. But on like four or five attempts a game, too.

it's not just two attempts a game. Yeah, Tari and Prince, automatic. Don't leave him open, right? If I was thinking Thunder, Thunder's tricky. Oh, no, it's Jay-Dub. Jay-Dub, yeah, yeah. It's J-Lynn, because he is not by any means a household. That's his whole name.

Yeah, I think that's fair. And if he had 30-something, right, in a couple of these games, then he would, he would break out. Mavs don't really have anybody either. No. Lively. If lively, just, I mean, but he was not just in the end-in-down. When you're in the finals. Yeah.

And also if you're in the NBA finals. Lively is a, his buckets come from Kyrie and Donchich. And they're, product of that. You know, it'd be really fun to get a rematch. I just thought of this now.

A rematch of the Mavs warriors would be electric. In Vegas, after that last game, we just saw between those two in San Francisco. That would be, I'm rooting for that now all of a sudden. That would be so much fun. I'm excited about the cup.

I can feel the cup has been a good experience to start to finish this thing. All right. Well, we got the game starting tonight. All right. Number three, right now, the team outside of the top eight in the standings in both conferences

that you believe in the most. So this was easy for me. There's only one answer per conference for me. So I'm going to put it back on you. For me, this is like, there is only one team that qualifies. in each conference for me personally. So I want to see if you agree with me.

See if you can spin it for me and sell me on someone besides my two teams. Well, you sent me yours, so I picked different ones. Okay, good. Well, for me, it's like it's Sixers and Sons, and it's not even a question. I think watching Embed's game back was an experience. It was like, he was like 0 for 7 to start the game. And do you remember that game in Memphis? What'd you say it was like the quietest 35 points you've ever seen?

It was like he started off bad. Remember he missed every shot short in that game? He was doing the same exact thing. And he had the brace that you've been talking about from upper thigh to lower ankle. He looked like, you know, he looked like he had a robo leg and it started off bad. But then what happened was they ran this, they spammed this high pick and roll with Maxie dribbling to his left. and Embed on like a short role. It wasn't a pop, but it wasn't a role.

He just kept getting these like 14, 15 foot jump shots over Butchibich, your guy Bucci made. And it was just like, I don't know if it was bad defense or just an unstoppable play, but bro, they did it like 15 times. And Embed didn't hit any threes. He tried in the beginning. But this mid-range operating from the nail thing, which is one of the places that I thought he was best when Doc was actually the coach,

but he used to kind of post up at the nail. but he gets the ball there facing the basket and he can shoot over anybody and he got to the point where Busevich kind of got hit to it he would just jab step in that shoot and he was like shooting like I mean I don't have the numbers of front of it was like seven for 10

from like that three throw area though that's the thing how many games is he going to play look he told Tim Bond temp's you know after that game this is not this is not a new injury which swelling many people can sit back and they can say, oh, well, that's good.

Like, I looked at it, the complete opposite. Like, oh, this is just, I can't play because of maintenance. Yeah, right? It's like, this is an injury. This is who I am now. This is the, we're trying to figure out how I can play without it being debilitating every time. And I'm like, geez. But listen, you're talking about a team outside of the top eight in the conference.

you've got Paul George, Tyrese Maxie, Joel Embed, Jerry McCain. Well, and the East thinks, so you got all kinds of time. Like, that team to me is the only candidate in the East for me. Who do you pick? I threw Detroit on there, who just got their first win against New York since 2019.

I could not believe that. I couldn't believe they have not beaten the dick since 2019. they did on Saturday night I just feel like they've been in they're half a game out of the eight seed right now and I feel like they've been in a million of these like early in the season they've already played a season

worth of thrillers seems like so many of their games and I know you look those can go one of two ways but I do think that I saw you know Kate Cunningham posted this thing on Instagram after that New York game and this is one of the things I love

I love when all the team then start commenting underneath it. There was even a story about this, right? And it was about, it was just, you know, it was just like glory to God type thing. But it was all the teammates are in the mentions. And they're all like there's a chemistry they've developed. They play really hard every night.

They've got some fun young players. And I do think Brooklyn's going to fall back. And so there's going to be some team that able to pop up. There's going to be a few. There's going to be a few that pop up. But I just, I like the vibes. And look, they're not ready to win big or anything. But as a team that you and I both kind of thought could be in that, you know,

eight to 10 mix and maybe get a chance at that play in. And then who knows, you're playing 48 minutes. Maybe you could have the game of your life that one time and be able to get yourself into the playoffs or maybe twice and get yourself into the playoffs. Feels like all those guys have got a good little bond. they got good vibes and they all loved and they love the best player which is Cade who's breaking out. He's missing games. He's missing games but he's had a good season.

Yeah. And if you were going to say, I believe in the Pistons more than the Sixers, you could make a really good case of being like there's consistency and continuity on this Pistons roster. There's a new coach who's invigorated this team and the Sixers are literally their three best players have played like 40 minutes together, the entire season.

So I think you can make a case. You can make a case for this. So I just put them in there because, you had already taken the Sixers, which is, look, the Sixers is an obvious. You're not that far out of it, though it's been a disaster thus far. And it's only,

I think we both agree, it is only a matter of how many games they get out of those guys. When they step on the floor, literally against anybody, more often than not, they're going to have three of the best players. Correct.

Three of the best five players on the floor. In the West? In the West? It's easy to me, too. Sons. That Kevin Durant. he's like doing some contact stuff now he's going to be back soon and i mean again it's just kevin durant man like you think he can't climb you know you get what like don't forget how good

he is when he's there like uh well here let me explain it to you oh please too they're 11 and 2 with kevin durant in the lineup let me look at their record look at their record they lost opening night right no look at their record they're 11 and and two with him. Their record right now is 12 and 11. So they are one in nine. They are one and nine

without Kevin Durant and they are 11 and two with Kevin Durant. How many times have you heard about the on-off numbers with Yokic? This is like equally sort of like demonstrative of the importance of Kevin Durant.

One and nine. They're one and nine without Kevin Durant and they're 11 and two with him. I'm trying to think what the win was. I'd have to look at it. But it was probably like the Wizards or whatever, the Jazz.

I bet it was the Jazz. I was going to guess it was the Jazz. I still kind of believe in Sacramento. What you saw recently. It gives us the opportunity to shout out our guy, Mike Brown, head coach of the Sacramento Kings, who wanted to make sure that the Sacramento Kings did the right things

and did them over and over and over and over correctly. I mean, they're 12 and 13. They played like crap. They've had injuries. And a lot of these teams at the beginning of the season are able to win a lot of games with defense.

But they're offensively inept. But their defense has been so great. those teams over the course of the season will start to fall back. And the teams that are able to score every night are going to be able to make a push. In the end, they still, it's a talent thing, like you were saying, it's a talent thing. There's nobody more consistent than Sabonis. There's Fox, and then you got DeRosen. And as time goes on, like it's been a kind of bumpy first 25 games,

but I could see them getting right. There's something happening that no one's really talking about, that our friend and colleague, Kirk Goldsbury, had a post about sort of three-point shooting and the most, the hottest, and the coldest. I was pretty surprised to see Keegan Murray as one of the coldest three-point shooters in the league. And that was one of the selling points about his game,

is that he could knock down threes. And you could say, this is a real problem for the Kings, or you could say cold start regression to the mean, that's going to help this team get better because they have some bonus to Rosen and Fox who can all get their own bucket. They don't need help getting a bucket. And if you have a knockdown shooter around someone

that draws that kind of attention, it can change the geometry of the floor very quickly. They need to figure out how they're going to get the role players back in the other two spots. You got three guys. You need two role players to go along with them. They're experimenting with the monk thing in the starting lineup. he needs to be your bench heater, you know.

And so as time goes on, maybe they'll be able to figure it out. And then when they do, again, number one issue for bad record is lack of, lack of talent. They don't have a lack of talent. It's just been bumpy the first 25 games. And I do think that I am a believer in their talent. And so they'll be in the mix. They'll be able to. They'll hit a run at some point.

Fourth question, Chris Paul. congrats to him moved into second on the all-time assist list moved past Jason Kit when I say Chris Paul you think of point God is the first thing I think of right and one of the things I found so significant about this I loved watching get emotional when they gave him the cool plaque with all the names of the team whatever the people that he's assisted to

is you celebrate being second on this list because first is just so far off like that's like right now like it's kind of like when james hardin was asked about being second on the three point shots made he's like well step doesn't count so i consider myself number one because they they make that plaque and they give them that ball because you are not going to get to number one so we'll celebrate you as number two but point god is the first thing i come up with and like a true definition of the position um a settler a scorer a fiery competitor manipulator and I think that he it's very safe to say that he's not

going to win a championship. He's not going to be a major player on a championship team. He could sign with the contender next year, but he's not going to be sort of like one of their best players. But one of the main memories I have of his career is that Warriors Rocket

series, when he got hurt at the end of game five, a game they won, this is the KD Rocket. I mean, it's KD. Warriors. This is K. K.D. Eddie, Steph, Clay, Draymond. Like, the Rockets had them up against the ropes, had a game seven at home and missed 27 threes.

And I think in Chris Paul's career, that was the championship year. That was the one. Like that Rockets team with James Hardin being the best he is in his career and the shooters they had around him and Clint Capella was not the Klingapella that you're watching now on the Hawks.

and I really think back to that because I always want these players, these Hall of Fame players, to get A ring, and I really wanted that for Chris Paul, and I felt like that was the year. I remember where I was. I think everyone remembers where they were during that game seven,

watching three after three after three after three be missed. And if he didn't get hurt at the very end of game five, they're winning game six or game seven, and they're going on to play the caps. feel like it always came down to the end where it was like it was a groin, it was a hamstring.

It was some kind of reason he could not be the fully formed version of himself. And you just wonder how many times over the course of an unbelievable career if he just could have been himself for entire series against people, even when we got to the Phoenix series. against Milwaukee.

That was another unbelievable. I mean, that was an NBA finals. There was an NBA finals, right. That was an NBA finals. God. And it just feels like over and over again. I covered it when he was with those Lob City Clippers.

You know, because they had just absolute wars against the Grizzlies in those years. And that turned into a real like rivalry. Yes. Where everybody hated each other. Yes. but hell of a competitor. There's no way around that.

Congrats to him. It's also worth mentioning the veto of the Lakers trade. Oh, yeah. Because that was just not really, that was like a commissioner of a fantasy league just be like, nah. You know what I mean? His whole career is like more so than many others, I think.

Riddled with what ifs. Yes, sliding doors moments. Yeah, it's just riddled with what if. Like you said, sliding doors moments is one after another after another. And also remember him and David West just being unstoppable. At the very beginning of his career, like people think of David West, like on the Warriors or whatever,

but like David West and Chris Ball had a real thing going once upon a time. Also, I, one of the things that comes to my mind when I think about him is I have always lauded him. The year that after that whole Houston thing happened and he ends up going to, they sent him out to Oklahoma City. That's a good way of putting it. They sent him to Oklahoma City. And it's just us. Like, we're in this, we were in this.

realm of I don't want to be here trade me force trade whatever else right instead he took that whole like just thrown together team this rag tag group that you know with danilo galanari and that whole group with Oklahoma City they had an issue at that point and just but just drug them to being like a real seed with a chance to win in the playoffs oh yeah like you know he didn't want to be there. You know. That was like, wait, what? And instead, he like totally embraced it and became the guy and led them to being so much better than they had any business being.

And Phoenix was exactly a juggernaut before he got there either. He wasn't ring chasing. When he went to Phoenix, he was not ring chasing. And that team was in the finals. And in retrospect, he deserves Monty Williams coach of the year trophy. That's great point. That should be revising history. Yes.

Monty should just give it to him. Yeah. That plaque. Last one. We've had some more fines that came down. We had Anthony Edwards, I think, was one of the most recent ones where he got 25 grand for using profanity. We've had some profanity fines recently in the NBA, whether it's for walkoff interviews or

in press conference or locker room situations. And we've had. fines for I've seen gestures this year, a couple different times, whatever. Zach Collins is going to get one. I'm sure you saw that. The best reason to get fined is. Well, first of all,

I did a little research on this one, it's sort of historically great finds. And the bubble certainly brought us some good ones with our friend Lou Williams and his trip to Magic City. Amazing. And Daniel House, the alleged shenanigans that happened there

with some guests coming into a hotel room and those sort of things weren't allowed. But the best fine that I could find is from one of my favorite players. And if you look up, his highlights on YouTube, it will blow your mind some of the athleticism

that this man showcased early in his career. And that is J.R. Smith. I think a lot of people think of Nick's J.R. Smith and Cavs J.R. Smith, but Nuggets J.R. Smith was like J.R. Smith or Anthony Edwards. I'm telling you. But J.R. Smith, this is my favorite fine of all time. This is my answer to your question. Untying his opponent's shoes during the game. No.

Yes. $50,000. Wait. Who's shooting the untie? I don't know exactly who that was. Like I said, I did research, but not like real research. But it was $50,000. It was the thing was with the Knicks. And it was, it's just, it's just so on brand for J.R. Smith. And I think that, I think people sort of like revered J.R. Smith's sort of goofiness. But I think they really forget what a great player he was.

Like he was a goofball, but he was also a super athlete, a great shooter. And later in his career, a key role player for those Cavs teams. But man. Wait, hold on. Now, I found an old article. This is from 10 years ago. And it says NBA finds Nick's J.R. Smith, 50 grand for repeated shoelace stunts. Okay, good.

Yeah. It said the NBA did not find J.R. Smith's shoelace stunts very funny. After a warning proved insufficient, the NBA fined him. That's even better. It's even better. recurring instances of unsportsman like conduct. Even better. After he twice tried to untie an opponent's shoelace during games this week.

By the way, there is an entire YouTube compilation of this. I love the idea that the league calls this man is like, stop untying people's shoes. He's just like, hold my beer. Imagine being worn to not untie your opponent's shoes. And that doesn't stop you from untieing your opponent's shoes. from untying your opponent's shoes. I found it. Smith successfully untied the shoelace of Mavs forward,

Sean Marion, during a New York victory over Dallas on Saturday. The NBA then warmed Smith not to do it again, but he attempted to untie the shoelace of Pistons Forward Greg Monroe. Oh, Greg Monroe. Mike Woodson spoke directly about Smith's antics on ESPN, New York, 98.7 on Wednesday. I've always said, I don't condone that.

And I know you shouldn't do it. No, I'm not happy about this. He was warned, comes back and makes the same mistake. It's not right. I just got the information. I'm going to address it on Thursday after he comes to work. It's unacceptable. It really is.

It's unprofessional. That's the only word you can use. It's really funny. Funny is another word. Really funny is another word you can use. Hey, Smith, apologized on Twitter on Wednesday. Huge apologies to my team, to the league,

and most of all, all you fans. It said the first untying incident occurred when Dirk Nevinsky stepped to the foul line during the second quarter. Smith, who had just checked in the game, lined up alongside Sean Marion, occupying the third stall on the right of the paint. as Dirk went into the free throw motion,

Smith bent down as if to check his shoes before reaching over to untie the shoelaces of Marion. Marion looked down, apparently catching Smith in the act, but by that point, he was jockeying for a rebound position and there was nothing he could do. I love it.

I don't know he was a repeat, a hitchvichral line stepper. I mean, this is great. But one thing I just want to say about Smith, when you're done YouTube looking at his untying shoes and then all of his great dunks from his Denver days, just maybe put in J.R. Smith's dirty play. There's just results for that too.

He might have had some anger management issues as well. I think we can agree. Okay, so I'm agreeing with you. That's obviously the best reason to get fined because it's, I mean, it is beyond hilarious. The worst is for sure flopping, which is why I'm glad they have instituted it. Flopping is the worst.

Because not only have you flop, Now they're charging you 20 grand or whatever they're charging you for a flop. Horrendous. And it's also kind of like. Humiliating. It's, yeah, the humiliation aspect I like a lot. You know what I mean? Imagine having to write a check because you flop, you overflopped.

Yep. I've always wanted to find out where all the fine money goes at the sack. Out of silver's pocket. Yeah, no, there should be like a, like a Rashid Wallace Center in Detroit or something. You know what I mean? just like a community center that's just like got a statue of him outside. Not a statue outside of where they play, but outside of a children's center,

there's a Rashid Wallace statue of him flipping off an official. One thing to quickly mention before we get out of here, Shams Sharani have put up a big like notebook type insider article this morning talking about some trade stuff. He brought up, of course, names that have been out there, Jimmy Butler and Brandon Ingram, saying that Jimmy Butler, he's just something

to keep an eye on that he's got a $49 million this year, a $52 million player option next year, but the idea is, hey, don't trade me. And the agent says, hey, don't trade him to here, here, here, because he's not resigning.

The expectation is he wants to get another contract to sign up for long term going forward. But the agent evidently has said, Rockets, Mavs, Warriors Are teams that he would be open to? Oh, teams he would be open to. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I listened, you know, I think it's clear. You mentioned Kaminga earlier that the Warriors need a second shot creator score. Bad. Mavs, I don't see it. Rockets is interesting. We've discussed at length about how they have the pieces to make a trade,

consolidate pieces for a one trade. But I don't know. The Warriors is the best. I mean, in terms of that one that would scare me the most if I'm the rest of the league. If they added him to Draymond and Curry. And so what are you sending out? Camingdon's.

No, I mean, it's all dependent upon how, you know, the opinion on Cominga and whether or not you think he's going to be a big star. Now, Yeah, you've got Steph Curry. This is it. Yeah.

Right. We always talk about how old LeBron is. Like, Steph is like three years younger than it. But if you think in three or four years, Kaminga's going to be a big star in the league. Do you, though? I don't. I don't. I don't.

I don't. I don't. But also, like, what's the motivation for the heat? They basically saying, like, we're going to, we're not going to resign them. Yes. So we'll take 60 cents on the dollar. We couldn't come to an agreement. So we're going to get them.

We'll take 60 cents on the dollar. Right. For our main guy, drag us to the finals, we're toe to toe to with LeBron. Right. I don't know. Same way with Ingram, again, you got to try to find him a landing spot. You know, I know that Minnesota's name came up in the summer he mentions. And so who knows with that?

Obviously, things have not gone very well for them. Well, I think Ingram is interesting to me. I'm not in love with that just because I think they need to create more space. And that doesn't really create more space. Ingram is interesting to me because I could see the pelicans are not. not contending. Like the heat are a team. If they're getting the plane

and they're the 8th C, they feel like they can beat the 1C. They feel like they can make a run. They've done it before. They have a history of competing and contending, whereas the Pelicans are very clearly not competing contending this year. So they would be willing to take a package

with salary dump plus picks plus young prospects to rebuild. So I think the Ingram is much more likely to end up on a team. Yeah, they can't afford Ingram. You know, so he's going to end up elsewhere. Yeah. He looked great.

he was my player that I love last pod. Yeah. And so Warriors also are mentioned as, you know, they've got De Anthony Melton, who unfortunately tore his ACL, they've got his contract, they got some draft capital that they may shop, they may be moving that around. They've shown some interest in Brooklyn's guys, Cam Johnson, Finney Smith, Dennis Schroeder, those kind of guys, right? Those are all veteran guys as well, right, that you could add to the mix to try to bolster what you've got going. and maybe, you know, you move off of some of your younger guys for win now guys.

I think that there's certain players that you just like more than everybody else. Kim Johnson's always been one of those guys from me. Interesting. I've always liked him. I've always just been like, I don't see what's wrong with this guy. Tall, shoot, defend, pass, dribble and shoot. Like, what's the problem here? Shams also mentions contenders expected to pursue Kyle Kuzma.

That name obviously came up. And then you're the three Portland guys. William's Anthony Simons, Jeremy Grant, or some other names. So the reason this is relevant now is because starting on, I believe it's Sunday. The 19th, yeah. The 15th. Okay.

The 15th is when teams, players that signed contracts. Oh, no, I was like the night. He mentioned the 19th is the G League showcase in Orlando. Right, right, right. But the 15th is when some of these guys can move. Can be moved. But I like this. I always like the idea that like everyone gets together to watch the G.

League Showcase, but really it's we all get together to talk trades before the deadline. And they all start talking and then things start to move a little bit. All right, that's going to do it for today. We will reconvene later in the week. I will talk to our executive producer Jesse Lopez

as always and I'll talk to you later this week. Jacoby. Make it. Must be 21 and over in present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 over and present in Got a gambling problem? Call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-Helph-Help.com.

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