The Mismatch - James Harden on the Move, Kyrie Irving's Future, and the Next Bruce Brown

Episode Date: June 30, 2023

Verno and KOC debate where James Harden will land after he opted into his contract with the 76ers and now expects to be traded (01:10). Which interested teams are the best fit for Harden and what could Daryl Morey get in return for him? They also discuss the Kings' re-signing Harrison Barnes, which teams could give the Lakers trouble when it comes to matching an offer sheet for Austin Reaves, and which free agent has the best chance to be this year’s Bruce Brown (28:54). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming, please check out ringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You may find this hard to believe, but 60 songs that explain the 90s. America's favorite poorly named music podcast is back. With 30 more songs than 120 songs total. I'm your host, Rob Harvilla, here to bring you more shrewd musical analysis, poignant nostalgic reveries, crude personal anecdotes, and rad special guests, all with even less restraint than usual. Join us once more on 60 Saws that Explain the 90s every Wednesday on Spotify. Welcome to the mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon and joining me as he does every Thursday night

from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, A.K. Kevin O'Connor, A.K.K. Kevin O'Connor, A.K.K.K.O. Happy NBA Free Agency Eve. How are you? My goodness. Now, as we have been doing this together for seven years now, one of the things that we have learned is we are at severe mercy of news coming out at any given point. So hopefully there is an amount of you that are going to be able to listen to this before news breaks, the big news. We know that there's going to be a ton going on in free agency, which begins tomorrow. We're recording this at around 9 o'clock central time on Thursday night.

And Kevin, just a few hours ago, every thing. turned upside down and news broke that could have a profound impact all around the league and made this free agency much more fun and much more dramatic. And that was that James Hardin opted into his contract with the Philadelphia 76ers. And immediately after doing that, it is reported that he did that with the intention of Philadelphia finding him a different landing spot. And so now not only do we have free agency with teams trying to build their rosters, you have a 10-time All-Star that is out on the market.

And there have been teams that have already come up in conjunction with him. But let's just start with, it seems as if as recently as 24, 48 hours ago, everybody was like, hey, Kyrie Irving's going to go back to Dallas. James Hardin's going to go back to Philly. Things are pretty calm. We'll find out what happens with the Fred Van Bleets and the Brooke Lopez's of the world.

And now, as we're recording tonight, I don't think Kyrie Irving will be in Dallas, and I don't think James Hardin will be in Philadelphia. And it might be for each other. I don't know. And maybe in a couple hours, that's exactly where they will be. You know, we have no idea at this point.

But the fact is, this James Hardin News, you know, he opts into his contract. There's been rumblings of that this week of the possibility that, you know, with the Sixers haggling with him and trying to get a shorter term deal that he's like, okay, I just don't want to be here that. Give me my money or I'm going to bounce. And now he's opting in and all indications are, you know, Wodge says Clippers or Nix. Shom says don't forget the heat. And I think it's also worth, you know, wrapping in the Kyrie Irving stuff here, Chris, you said it with him where he could leave Dallas. There was a report this week that he's going to meet with the sons. They already have Bradley Beale. They get Katie. They got Booker. If he's going to meet with Phoenix, you would assume that that would

mean Phoenix would also still have interest in James Hardin, who for, you know, a month plus now, they've been considered the sleeper team. Windhorse reported that. I believe I said that on this podcast. Others have said that as well. So I think you have a number of different destinations, Clippers, Knicks, Heat, Sons that are all worth considering as potential new homes for James Hardin. But if you're the Sixers, you know, I don't know what you're really going to get for a guy who's going to be 34 next season, clearly on the physical decline and has only one year left on his contract. It's a tough position for Darrell Mori to be in. Also, a guy that now this is three teams in two and a half years that he has.

wanted out of. So that's not great either. And, you know, I heard Woja's report on ESPN, and he was saying that Hardin looked out at the market and probably the long-term deal that he wanted isn't there. And you know that as a function. Look, they lost in seven games in the playoffs. In the four games that they lost,

he never had more than four field goals in the games. He was 12 of 55 from the field in their four losses that took place. So, I mean, he had a couple of two really big games against Boston. But the four duds that he had cost him the series. You know, I don't want to put it all on him. But when you are putting that kind of cap, into a player, you've got to have that guy perform. And I do think if James Hardin plays great in those playoffs and they go down swinging,

then you could just say, hey, we lost to a better team. But you're now in a spot where you've got the reigning MVP of the league. And if you're Darrell, you've got to maximize that right now. And that was the big chance was last year in the playoffs. and to fall short then, I think was it's set up the stage for what we've got going on right now. All right, just hear me out. On those two fronts of the things that you mentioned, to me, the most logical things that could happen in all of this is that, yes, Kyrie Irving meets with the sons. And the reason he's meeting with the sons is to get some kind of trying to understand.

what they want, if that would be a good landing spot for him. And if so, at that point, we've heard that the Mavericks had had previous interest possibly in DeAndre Aiton. So that to me sounds incredibly reasonable. If they do want him, if they want him, which I do not think that having all four of those guys would be very wise. But let's just say that's their opinion. And if that is, if I'm Dallas, man, if I could get DeAndre Aiton and not have to sign

Kyrie Irving up to a long-term contract and I get Luca a pick and roll partner, I like the Aiton fit. I don't like Aitin or Kyrie. You know that. But I like the Ait and fit better than the Kyrie fit in Dallas. And if you can get something for it, because I thought they've been in a very tough spot where it's like, okay, here's your two choices. Losing for nothing or give him a contract that's, you know,

a contract you don't want to give him. And so there's that one. And then that Clippers thing that's come up, we know Daryl wants another star. He believes in multiple stars. And so if you could put together some kind of framework where you could net Paul George to go along with Maxie and MPED, and you could put together a, you know, a George Norm Powell type deal,

and you're giving out Harris and Hardin in that kind of a deal. Like where that's kind of the framework that you would go off of. I think that makes a lot of sense. I mean, to me, it doesn't make sense for the Clippers. But if you're, if you're Philly, the interesting thing to me, Kev, is going to be, is Darrow going to play hardball in this? Harden thing, the same way that he did on the Ben Simmons thing, where it's like, I don't have to trade him.

He opted in. I don't have to trade him. I know that's his guy. I know he hugs him off the plane every time he gets him. But I don't have to move him. And so if you're not going to give me a great return for him, then I'm not moving him. And I'll deal with the disgruntled star. I don't know, man.

This gets so fascinating. I mean, we saw Daryl Morey's game plan with Ben Simmons. He dragged it up until, you know, after the new year. Right. January, February, then they finally make the Ben Simmons for James Hardin deal. It's a huge win for Philadelphia to land Hardin. And, you know, Mori, you know, ended up being on the right side of, you know, that debate of wait or take a deal now for like a C.J. McCollum-esque player. And with Hardin at this point, I wonder how aggressive are these teams going to actually.

B, what is Daryl actually looking for? There was, you know, Brian Windhorst said earlier on Thursday on ESPN how, you know, Philadelphia, maybe now Kyrie Irving would want to take a look there if Hardin's going to go, as you said earlier. Well, they take a look at Damien Lillard. But does the Philadelphia even have enough for Dame? We're talking about Miami not having enough. We're talking about Portland wanting to drag things into the season and give it time with Dame or even just keep him and build a two timelines winner.

Philadelphia, they have Maxi. They can trade one future first. What are they really going to get back for Hardin? They're going to compile enough assets to make a strong dame offer. I don't think those necessarily, because even from the Blazers' perspective, you've got Scoot Henderson, you got Anthony Simons, you've got Shaden Sharp. I love Tyrese Maxie in a vacuum. I'm not sure I love him as much for what the Portland Trilbazers have.

So I think for them, I still think they would want to wait. And so that means for Philadelphia, if you're not getting, you know, star quality talent back in return, is it a collection of role players? Something like from the Clippers, you can get Terrence Mann back, a good guy who, you know, moving without the ball. He's never really, Tailu hasn't, you know, fully trusted him with a 30 plus minute per game. Is it someone like him with Norm Powell and Robert Covington? Is it a package of players with one future first? You don't think more he would do that.

No way. If Darrell moves him, he's getting a star. because he's getting a star. Yeah, but Hardin is 34 next year. And it's one year left in his deal and he's on the decline. I understand. Are you sure he's getting a star? Are you really sure?

Yes. He will get a star in return. What a star me? What type of star are we talking about here? Would you give up, if you're the Clippers, would you give up Kauai or George? No. Neither. No.

I wouldn't be willing. I'd play hardball if I'm the Clippers and say, you can have Terrence Mann, Norm Powell, Robert Covington, in a future first, and you can go home and be happy with it. That's what I tell, Daryl. That doesn't maximize MBEs. Well, what if Tyrese Maxie takes a leap this coming season with Hardinot there dominating the ball? What if Nick Nurse? See, my vision for the Sixers personally is that they integrate more motion.

We talked about this after Nick Nurse was hired. I think they need to take a little bit of what the Bucks do with Janus and a little bit. bit of what the nuggets do with Yokic and empower and beat in that type of offense and that requires the right personnel. Maxi is 100% the right personnel. That guy is awesome off ball. He knows how to move. He has feel. He knows how to cut. He does all those, you know, high IQ and tangible things on the floor. So Terrence Mann can do that. If you get another pick, maybe you can package those together and another type of deal. I don't know, man. I think if you do if you do trade Hardin for a group of players rather than an individual star.

To me, that says you feel a high level of confidence that Tyrese maxi is ready to be the second guy behind Joelle LeBid. And then it's about having a bunch of really good role players, a team that's eight, nine man deep. You know, I think that might be what they have no choice to do, because I don't think they're going to get a star back for James Harden, unless there's a surprise around the corner here. You know, maybe it's a, maybe it's something like someone we're not expecting. a Carl Towns type. I'm not saying they should do that or would do that.

I'm just saying somebody that we're not anticipating. We anticipate Paul George. We anticipate a Kawhi Leonard, but maybe it's somebody we're not thinking about. Well, because the other teams that are mentioned, you don't know. What about the Knicks? Why is that name out there?

In terms of assets, who would you want? And I don't like Hardin with Brunson. I love Brunson. No, I hate the Knicks fit. I don't like that. Why are they interested? I really hate the Knicks fit. I would not even be in for Hardin if I'm the Knicks

unless it's so like it's fake interest to drive the price up. Yeah, maybe so. Like that. But then you're helping Philadelphia in that regard too if you do that. So, I mean, Miami, I get it. Miami, I definitely get it. You bring him in with Bamata Bio and Jimmy Baller. Hardin has, you know, he doesn't need to lead.

He doesn't need to be a voice. The reason, let me just hear me out on this. thing. So Paul George has not been available. That's been the problem with the clippers. Neither of those two stars have been available in tandem, nearly at all. Kauai less than George. But George has got his own issues where you wouldn't necessarily, you say that like, hey, you can't get a guy like that, but I mean, he doesn't play enough. And he's not healthy when it comes time. I mean, you know, he's, when they got to the playoffs last, year, I can pitch about Hardin only getting you four field goals or less in some of those games,

but Paul George gets you zero field goals. So I don't know. And to me, I kind of think that James Harded is best when the whole thing revolves around him. And so I could talk myself into, again, you know my field. on him. But if I'm the clippers, I can talk myself into, like,

hey, here's a guy that could, like, he could, we could be hard and centric when Kauai plays. And so, we can still have a pretty good team when Kauai,

and maybe an awesome team when Kauai plays, but then when he doesn't, because we know we're only getting him for so many, that's a guy that could carry the load, assuming you think he can, assuming, you know, much like game one,

against Boston where we saw it. We saw Hardin with the ball in his hands four out. Best player on the team. And he looked like Houston James Hardin. And it's like, man, you might be able to play that way for a lot of the time because Kauai Leonard's not going to be around. I don't know if Ty Lou necessarily wants to do that. But, I mean, he has been more durable.

and where are you going from here if you're the clippers? I don't know. You might consider it. Again, I'm not in love with the guy. I wouldn't want to trade for him. But I understand. And I do think, I don't think Daryl's going to move him for role players. No way.

I mean, you could trade him for Ben Simmons. You get in to run it back. Hell, they won as much with Ben Simmons. as they did with James Hardin. The Hardin era in Philly has been a colossal disappointment when you consider it. Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's too bad. Because now you're looking and you're like finding a trade for him and it's a worst asset.

I mean, here's a thing though, Chris. I mean, like, you know, I've been a Hardin guy for as long as we've been doing this show. As long as we've been doing it. But I don't think for Joel Embeddard in his first. his best. And so this is a situation for Philadelphia where this could be a blessing in disguise for Joelle Embed and for the future of the Sixers if they can get the right return and build the right system that truly, I mean, I know the guy just won MVP, but takes them to an even higher level in a postseason setting. That's the key here. I mean, Embedde is a magnificent

regular season player. He's had some outstanding moments in the postseason, but, you know, we just watched Yokic get better in the playoffs. Joel and Bede has never gotten better in the postseason. So either that says a lot about him or it says a lot about the system. It's a little bit of both. To me, I think I lean towards more system. And that's why I want to see the personnel change. I want to see the system change. And that's where the opportunity is here with trading James Harden for whatever it is, whether it's a star or whether it's parts and integrating a new system under Nick Nurse. but the downside is that you don't get something that makes you better. And this is just another mistake in a long line, a long history of mistakes,

going back to taking faults over Tatum, everything that they've done over the years, giving the money to Al Horford, Joel and Abede has become an MVP despite mistake after mistake, after mistake, after mistake, by the Sixers. And this could be the beginning of the end if Daryl doesn't get the right return. and if Nick Nurse doesn't build the right system. So we're really at a big crossroads here. And, you know, really an NBA history, right?

Because this is an MVP we're talking about who's been with the Sixers' entire career, one of the longest tenured players in basketball, like we talked about on Tuesday. I hope they get it right. I love seeing Embed in Philadelphia, but I'm not super optimistic about it. Are you better if you're the clippers with Hardin and Tobias

than you are with Paul George? Oh. Oh, you're saying Hardin and Tobias for Paul George and parts like salary. And, and Powell, because they're trying to get off of Powell. Yeah. So, okay, so you're talking both now, not just Hardin. Yeah, you're moving off. Tobias Harris.

Okay. Yeah, I think you're better. I do. So you're getting Hardin and Harris. Yep, I think you're better. And they're getting George and Powell. I think both teams actually probably get better. I think so, too.

That feels like a more mutually beneficial deal for both teams. And like I said, I would want Terrence Mann and the deal if I'm the Sixers. To me, Terrence Mann would be he's, you know, I want him to get 25, 30 minutes per game on a consistent basis and not ever be in his coach's doghouse. So if you can get Man, Powell, and George for Tobias Harris and James Hardin, that's a big win for the Sixers in my opinion and for the Clippers because it's mutually beneficial. That's what they both need. Yeah, I just think it's easy framework if you're trying to get off that Harris deal too. Yep. And I think it's hard sometimes to come up with easy trades for these kind of players.

But this one actually kind of just fits. And I would be stoked if I were a Philly fan. Because now I look at it and I go, my three are, because I'm a Maxi believer as well. I've got Maxie, Paul George, and Joel M.B. Yes. Whereas in like the scenario we talked about earlier, Embed and Maxy and a bunch of role players, you're asking a lot of Tyrese Maxi.

For him to be the second star, that's a lot to ask for. Third star, that feels appropriate for him at this age and this year of his career entering year four. And I've got an awesome perimeter player to go along with Joel and Bid. And then on the clipper side, I'm going to get that Harris contract to fall off my books. There's one year left.

Just one year. And I'm at, because I'm at a crossroads on a Paul George extension anyway. And you want to talk about contentious. Wait till they go to the table and go, bro, you don't play enough. We're not giving you the full boat here. Whereas Philly may say, you know what, we're going to extend you.

We believe in it. And we're going to give you the money. At least maybe a better. deal than what the clippers can. I don't know. Like, I think that kind of makes a lot of sense. And it's an easy one if the clippers are truly, because where there's smoke, there's fire.

And the Paul George stuff started coming up during the draft. And it was like, okay, you're not against moving him, huh? Like, teams got the impression that they're not, they're not against moving Paul George. and so they're thinking about it. They're not against it. They're not against Paul George. He was involved in discussions with Portland. That's the best player.

I think that's the best player you could get back if you're feeling. James Harden and Tobias Harris. Yes. I think that's the best player you could get back in a deal is Paul George. Yeah, considering his age. Yes. He's 33 right now today. And he has the one year deal left guaranteed than a player.

option. Yep. Yeah, I mean, realistically, yes, that probably is the best you're going to get. That that is. Hardin, you know, in a vacuum is better than Paul George, just pulling up, you know, the NBA rankings that Michael Pina, Jay Kyle, Mann, and Rob Mahoney all vote on. They have Hardin 19, and then they have Paul George 25. Those guys are pretty close. You know, I think most people would agree. Some would take George ahead of Hardin and, you know, whatever, but those guys are close. Like, you're not getting Brandon Ingram for George. You're not getting No. You're not getting Darius Garland.

I don't know. I'm just scrolling down the list, you know, spitballing. You're not getting any of those guys. It seriously might be the best player you could get for either of them. Yeah. Like the best player you could get in a Hardin return, it might be the best player you could get in a Georgia turn. It's going to be fascinating.

I mean, and you would trade, you would do a sign and trade for Aiton, wouldn't you, if you're Dallas? Well, that's complicated because for Phoenix, they'd be hard-capped if they do a sign and trade. So technically that wouldn't work. They can't do it? Yeah, that technically would not be a viable trade in that situation. Even if they fit into the money?

No. Because you're hard-capped when you do a sign-and-trade. Because, man, that makes all the sense in the world to me as well. Some way for Kyrie to end up at Phoenix and Aiton to Wendon. end up in Dallas. It would have to be something more complex where it's like, like let's say Aiton, like Kyrie signs for a discount to go to the Sons.

And then Aiton is sent to a team in a regular trade like to Dallas or to Minnesota. You know, if Kat goes to Dallas, it gets really complicated. But a sign and trade is not doable. They can't just do that. Okay. Yeah.

So like basically the the hard cap, you know, it caps you at 171 million, which is the the tax apron this year. Which is like two, it was like two Phoenix owns spoilers. Pretty much. Yeah. I mean,

there are 130 million for Beal Booker and Durant alone. So, I guess incredibly complicated if you're doing a sign and trade. and then you're supposed to, you know, fit all those guys within $15 million. Like if you get Kyrie at $25 million for a sign and trade with Aiton, then you're at $155, you know, or if it's $30 million, then you're at 160 and you have four guys on the books. It's just the math doesn't work out.

So I don't know exactly how viable that is. It's not realistic. Why do you think Windhorst is bringing up Philadelphia for Kyrie? Why not? he wants money. Sixers want star power or at least want great players. I'd rather have Maxie going forward. I would.

Yeah. I mean, at what point are you not going to have a flake next to Joe L&B? Like, you had Ben Simmons, James Hardin, and then you go to Kyrie Irving? Like,

if I'm this guy, just jump off the brink. Ridge. Like, are you serious? The only guy they had who wasn't a flake was Jimmy Butler. That's it. And they let him go. And Maxie's a dog.

Like, I want Maxie. I want him long term. Yeah, I love Maxie. And so replacing that, you know, stunting the Maxie thing by going and getting Kyrie Irving just makes no sense to me whatsoever. I don't think Kyrie makes any sense for Philly either. Paul George does. Yeah, oh, for sure.

One thing I'll say is this, though, on that Paul George, Norman Powell trade, you still need a stabilizing point card. You still need something like that within your offense. Because Maxie's not that. Maxie is more of the off-ball guy, not the on-ball guy.

And, you know, when I was in Philadelphia last, you know, October, whenever it was, I interviewed Hardin and I interviewed Maxie and Embedde and one of the areas of growth that Harden talked about Maxi needs to make is as a playmaker. Maxi acknowledged that too. He's like, sometimes I need to slow down and read the floor and make better decisions. So unless Philadelphia feels like they can have kind of a multi-ball handler system where, again,

getting back to that same point about sharing the ball, motion, running through and Bede with DHOs, you got Paul George who can run pick and roll, Maxie who can handle sometimes. And then it's by committee, maybe then if that truly is the vision, then it could work. but if you're allowing a maxi to be your primary number one get the team into the offense, I think that might be a bit much to ask from him and it's not the best usage of his talents either. So I hope they run the motion system,

but we'll see how Nickners installs it. Yeah, the Clippers thing makes all the sense in the world to me just because of kind of where they are as a franchise right now, as interesting. I just, I don't get the heat. I don't get the Knicks. I get the heat. They're trying to win a championship.

You want to talk about the worst combination of heat culture. I mean, give me a break. Imagine him having to go to the body fat tests. Yeah, no, he'd fail it, but then he's still a good player. And the sprints. Yeah, he's better than what they have. And that's all you can ask for is an upgrade. It doesn't matter.

He does no choice but to embrace that when he's not out partying at the Miami clubs and having white linen parties. You can't have. have a worst combo. You're just asking for it. I know, yeah. You're asking for a guy to come in smelling like tequila every day. And then you're like, oh, you got to run sprints and take a body fat test.

Like, come on. It doesn't make any sense. It makes no sense. And like I said, I love Brunson so much. That just, the Nixon, that one, that doesn't make any sense. I'd be so crushed for Brunson if that happens. A couple other things that have taken place. We've got the Harrison Barnes deal that got done with Sacramento.

And that ends up being about $18 million a year. So they brought him back on a team that had a tremendous amount of success last year. Just like a totally solid role-playing veteran. And I understand it. Whether they're going to move it. Sam Amick reported that there's a 10% trade kicker. So I don't think they made that deal to move him. They made that deal to have him as their small forward.

And I think he's an adult who's played in a lot of games. He's been on winning teams. And he's kind of been the 20 point per game scorer. But he's also been the fourth guy on a team. And I thought he kind of fit in well with them last year. So, I thought that was a reasonable contract for him. You got the Josh Hart opt-in. You've got to believe that he was given some kind of assurance that in August they'll extend him.

And he'll get whatever, four years and $70 million or whatever he's going to get, right? Because he opted in. And that happened like right after the Hardin news, which made everybody go, oh, wow. Is this because they, you know, the Knicks are going out? after James Harden, I suppose. And then you've got the Lakers. Sorry about this, bro. But they're up to something.

They're going to try to, they got their whole mid-level now because they got done. They waved Baba. They waved. It's a bad day. It's a bad day. They waved who Shaquille Harrison. I think like they're just waving before.

Clearly the Lakers are positioning themselves to either be a cap space team where they'd have more than the mid-level to offer or be a team that is in cap space that is over-the-cap, re-signs their own guys, Austin Reeves, and whoever else, and, you know, DeLo maybe, and then they can use the mid-level exception. So it depends on what path they want to go here and expect them to go with the mid-level. And we'll see, you know, reports all this week, you know, that's saying how Bruce Brown, there's a high level of confidence that they could be able to re-sign him. Or not re-sign, just sign him to the mid-level.

The Pacers are in on Bruce Brown. The Mavs are in on Bruce Brown. There's so much Bruce Brown heat. Don't you think he's going to get above the mid-level? I don't know. I mean, which team is going to offer it? Is it like it could be a team that we're not talking about like the Kings? The Kings still have 17 million-ish in cap space after resigning Harrison Barnes.

There's been no noise about them going after Bruce Brown, but why not? he'd be a great fit with their existing pieces. Yeah, there's a bunch of this heat. Bruce Brown, Brooke Lopez, that's another one that's like the Lakers have been kind of tied to. Lakers also tied to Javon Carter, which I really like.

Yeah, I like him a lot. But somebody's going to make their life hell on the Reeves thing. Somebody's going to offer Reeves a huge contract, don't you think? Houston. You think Houston's a one? Yeah, probably huge.

Houston, maybe San Antonio. Bill O'Pines, Utah, which of course made me laugh so hard on two fronts. A, of course, the white guy, but B, Danny A. Danej trying to stick it to the Lakers, which would not be out of the realm of possibility, right? Like, who are they spending their money on? You could just see Danny Age going, all right, four years, $100 million for Austin Reeves or whatever the number is, $98 million, just to stick it to them. I can totally see that.

Well, I mean, let's look at the Capspace teams real quick. Utah has $14.1 million. Would they really want to use that space that they have, which isn't a lot on an Austin Reeves offer sheet that's going to get matched anyway and then potentially screw themselves out of somebody else? I don't think so. To me, it be somebody like Houston, they have 66 million or San Antonio with 42 million, somebody like that where if you sign him to the offer sheet,

it's only 12 million of your cap for the season. I had Utah at 47 now. You're way off. it's like 14. Jordan Clarkson opted in. They acquired John Collins. Oh, I'll update your numbers, baby.

Yeah, they got 14. So I think Houston, San Antonio would be much, much, much, much more likely. Yeah, this is the pre-Collins. Yeah, yeah. The Clarkson thing. Yep.

I mean, you never know what these other teams do, pistons, pacers, magic. Like, you know, you think Rockets, maybe everybody says the rockets are going to offer that huge contract to van vleet they can do both oh yeah what if what if van bleat decides not to sign there anyway that's always possible it is possibility and we didn't we talk about didn't we talk about reeves with the spurs yeah spurs would make sense as well point guard action with wimby yeah look they say they say the

lakers have said they're gonna they're gonna match anything i guess somebody's probably gonna test them though. I can't wait for all of this to play out. We've been thrown for a massive loop here at the beginning of it. And before we get out of here, because I know by time people listen to this, things have probably radically changed. I just

want to say, I saw your video about the next Bruce Brown. God, I love this. And this was good. The Io de Sune Mu, and you had all the highlights in it, and it's eerie. How much

Because you know I love the Soudon-Mu, and the guy is a dog, but I mean, the way you kind of outlined it as could this guy, everybody kind of searches for that, could this guy be the next? And I don't think that he's not, I think in the same way as Brown, somebody's going to get a bargain. Don't you? There's something there with DOSN-Mu. Like, it was kind of funny reading responses from Bulls fans.

There are some Bulls fans who were like, be quiet. We like, we don't drive up the price. And then you have other Bulls fans who are like, this guy doesn't realize that he sucks and got worse his second year. It's like, yes, I realize he got worse his second year. He wasn't nearly as good shooting the ball from three. Defenses were sagging off of him.

He didn't shoot 38% from three like he did as a rookie. And defensively, I mean, he was solid but not locked down like he was the year prior at certain moments. But I still have belief in him. he's only entering his third year in his career. It's been enough great moments with him that I feel like you've got to be invested in also. The situation in Chicago has not been perfect, right? Like you get Zach Levine and DeMarna Rosen.

It's not an offense that has a ton of motion or movement. That's the vision for DOSUNMU where he could thrive. And by the way, how many good players have left the Bulls and then had better careers? The list is getting pretty long of guys. So I think if you're betting on history, street. D'Sunu could be a nice bet for a team to make at a low cost. And the other thing is like, he's just, forget all the stat crap, right?

He's cut from the same claw as those guys. You know what I mean? Those are the kind of guys that I'm willing to bet on. He's cut from that cloth. He's a winning play guy. People can parse apart Bruce Brown, too, if they want to. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, we, for sure.

For sure. But, I mean, Bruce Brown could go away from Yokic and just be an average, you know, player. Yeah, I mean, like in Brooklyn, in Brooklyn, that's where you kind of fall in love. Yeah, you fall in love with Bruce Bruce Brown with what he's becoming in Brooklyn. And, but he's still not perfect. He's still a little bit undersized. He's still, like, he had his game where his floater just wasn't falling when he was playing small ball center for the nets.

And he was just bricking all those floaters. But then with Yokicch. It's just a perfect marriage of his talent with Yokic and Murray and everything there. It's a perfect fit. And I think with Dosunu, I just hope he lands with a perfect fit to give him an opportunity to truly become who he can be as a player. Because I think you still go back to at this stage of his career in year three, you still got to consider the college stuff. And what he was at Illinois, you know, with those teams where he was mostly like their lead ball handler. he was just yeah like he was a tone setter on defense that guy was awesome and both fans have seen

those flashes over two years where like the dives on the floor the chase down blocks that guy is tough so i hope somebody bets on him and we'll see it man like there's always those kind of under the radar guys that fall into good situations i think those soon move could be one of them all right last thing before we get out of here do you think the hardened thing changes the Lillard situation at all. Nah. I think Lillard is his own independent situation. You know Philly would want him.

One thing I'll say is this, though. Let's say Miami is unwilling to wait for Dame to make a decision. And they feel like they can get for Hardin at a good, fair price compared to having to give up everything for Damien Lillard. Maybe they say, you know what, we're not going to bother waiting. We're just going to go get James. I just don't think that, again, what's the principle, hero? I just think that Darrell's going to get something bigger than that.

I don't think you could do what you did with Simmons and then do the courting of Hardin and then get rid of your coach and then look up and end up with Tyler Hero in the end. Like, no, it can't be. I know. I feel you there. I do.

You know, because you'd go, man, for a second, it looked like I had turned Ben Simmons into something. But now it turned it into Tyler Hero four years later, like, or three years later, nah. Man, I can't wait to see how this all plays out. This is now going to super fun. We started free agency thinking James Hardin's just going to go back to Philly and Kyrie Irving's just going to go back to Dallas. And I don't think either those are true anymore. There's no telling what all we could see in terms of movement. And then we got free agency hitting and you got all the free agents signing places as well.

So this is going to be good. It's going to be really, really good. All right, we're going to get this thing up. So hopefully as many people can hear it before some huge news of a trade breaks and it ruins this podcast forever. Thank you to our executive producer, Jesse Lopez, as always. And Kevin, I will talk to you early next week after a lot of these rosters start to take shape. I'm looking forward to it, man. Free agency coming and Summer League.

Next week we'll be doing one in person at some point.