The Mismatch - Kevin Durant's Dominant 49-Point Game Gives the Nets a 3-2 Series Lead. Plus: Chris Paul's Playoff Run with the Suns and Young Players Adjusting in the Playoffs

Episode Date: June 16, 2021

Verno and KOC get together late Tuesday night to discuss the Nets win over the Bucks in which Kevin Durant played all 48 minutes and scored 49 points (1:08). Then they get into the adjustments Trae Young needs to make moving forward in the Hawks and Sixers series (26:35), the success of Chris Paul and the Suns (39:40), and the Jazz and Clippers' tied series (56:45). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O'Connor Producer: Carlos Chiriboga Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What If the Len Bias story hosted by Jordan Ritter-Kahn is the ringer's latest narrative podcast. You can find new episodes every Wednesday on the Book of Basketball 2.0 feed. Here's a quick trailer. You've heard his name, Lynn Bias, 1980s phenom, second pick in the NBA draft. And then, cocaine, tragedy, one of the most shocking deaths in sports history. 35 years later, Bias' legacy is still making an impact. From Spotify and The Ringer Podcast Network, this is What If, the Lynn Bias story. I'm Jordan Ritter-Conn.

Welcome to The Mismatch. I'm Chris Barney and Jordan Bcd every Tuesday from The Ringer.com. It's Kevin O'Connor, A.K., Kevin O'Bomber, Kevin O'Brien, Kevin O'Brien, Kevin O'Brien, Kevin O'Brienness. Kevin O'Hourne, on this late Tuesday night as we record, we just witnessed an all-time great performance by an all-time great player and Kevin Dorett. That was unbelievable. I'm in shock seeing that. It was just special, just special. That was downright shocking to watch a player, number one, play 48 minutes of a basketball game. Two years after he ruptured Achilles. That did not go to overtime. When he came out to start the fourth quarter, I thought, this is about to happen. We're about to watch a guy play 48 minutes.

And I, in fact, said to my buddies, I'm like, you know, if something happens to this guy, you do wonder if it's a different coach on the sideline outside of Steve Nash, if he's getting beat up for this, right? I don't think so. I get it that seasons on the line. I get that it's a big game. But, I mean, this is a guy that has logged a tremendous amount of minutes and had what we thought at one point, was going to be more than likely a career-altering injury.

And it has not altered that career at all. This was his masterpiece. You could tell at the very beginning of this game very quickly that James Hardin is going to give it a go. He played in an enormous amount of minutes. And he was a decoy for 46 minutes. a decoy that the bucks didn't attack enough when he was on defense. And they had Drew Holiday on him when he was on offense.

What a waste. What a waste. And, you know, they get done with that first half. And at the end of the first half, they go back to, uh, to TNT during the halftime show. And they're putting up these numbers. And it was Kevin Durant and Jeff Green, 33 points. the rest of the team 10. Kevin Durant

and Jeff Green 10 for 16 field goals rest of the team 4 for 24 Kevin Durant and Jeff Green free throws 9 for 11 rest of the team zero. That was at halftime, right?

James Hardin zero points 0 for 6 2 turnovers 22 minutes and it's like, all right, this is just not sustainable, right? You're not going to look up at the end of the game. I mean, they've got 43 points at halftime, and it's like, you can't go the whole game

with it just being Kevin Durant and Jeff Green and getting nothing from everybody else, including James Harden. But I'll be damn, Kevin. They damn did. and Durant turned up in that second half in a way that we have not seen. A lot of people were likening this and taking great joy in this. You saw all the memes after they lost that game, the last game in Milwaukee game four.

And it was like people were sending out the memes like a little baby, you know, who was atrocious in that celebrity game. and it would be like Kevin Durant without, you know, two Hall of Famers next to him. Or there would be like a meme. I saw another one and it was like, oh, without two of the greatest scorers of all time. Here's Kevin Durant. There was a pitcher of Harrison Barnes. And it was like- Such a joke.

People were delighting in the idea of Kevin Durant having to be in the position that LeBron was in. you know, in different years. Here it is. Here's what he goes. Curry was just in in other years. And so, you know, it had been a long time. Like really, I mean, you got to go back, 2016, really the last time we saw him in this kind of a spot where, you know, he's, it, he doesn't have the loaded team. When he was by far the best player on the team, the 2015-16 season.

Yeah. And he's, and he didn't have. Not even close. had another guy, but they weren't loaded. You know what I mean? And since then, he's been flanked by two amazing guys when we've watched him play basketball. And so this was the, all right, now you're the guy. You've got to put the team on your back.

You've got to make this team. You've got to make everybody better. And he ends up, as I said, with this masterpiece of a game where it looks like they're dead to right. Not only does he play 48 minutes. in the game. He ends up the counting numbers, 49.16 of 23

from the field, 4 of 9 from 3, 17 rebounds, 10 assists, 3 steals, 2 blocks. Unbelievable. And not only that, Chris, not only that, he was their best defensive player. Yes. The whole night,

anchored the defense, was switching on to the perimeter, getting stops, regardless of the matchup. So on top of all the counting stats, you know, with the three steals, the two blocks, he was watching the game a very high-level defender individually.

It was one of the better individual performances. I mean, I think I've ever seen. You know, you mentioned the help he got from Jeff Green who finished with 27 points. Blake Griffin ended up with 17. But the Nets are up in the series, 3-2, despite Kyrie now missing a game, despite James Hardin being limited after missing all first four games besides the couple of seconds in the opener. Joe Harris losing his shot the last three games. It feels like he's shooting 0%. I believe he's hit only three of his last 22 or 23,

three-pointers after hitting nearly 50% catch and shoot on the season. Some of their guys, like even Bruce Brown, who's been very good besides the end of the game clunkery he had. His floaters not fallen. And yet, despite all that happening around Kevin Durant, he had a masterful, masterful performance, making every single right decision in the pick and roll, every single right decision as a passer getting the ball to Landry Shammin at times who made some nice plays off those passes.

It was, I mean, it was one of the most complete performances we'll ever see. For those that were hoping for him to fall on his face when he was without two of these guys flanking him, look, Hardin, a shell of himself is not even applicable at this. I mean, that was not James Harden. And you could tell immediately in that game. He ends up one for 10. You know, Kevin Durant, when we ask superstars to be those guys that prove I'm the best player on the floor, I'm about to elevate this team to a level that they shouldn't even be at. When your second and third leading score are Jeff Green, who's on a nothing contract,

say whatever you want about Jeff Green and his talent level, he's on a nothing contract. he's on a nothing contract and he's played for 50 teams and Blake Griffin, who was a buyout. That in the end, those were the second and third leading scorers on this team that just won an Eastern Conference semifinals game against a outside of DeVincenzo fully stocked Milwaukee team. And that was because one guy. That was, I will impose my will. I am the best player on this court and everybody will know at the end of this game and that was just that's ridiculous man

just ridiculous truly I mean yeah absolutely look he didn't have his guys he didn't have Kerry and he didn't have Hardin he had whoever that imposter was wearing a James Hardin uniform but he didn't have Hardin

for this game you know to help him and with that you know in mind the fact we've only seen Hardin one full game throughout five so far in the series. Kairi now having missed one, I can't help but think even if the bugs were to win these last two, I don't feel any confidence in their ability to get to win the finals here

against either the Sons, the Clippers, or the Jazz. I mean, maybe they could get past the Sixers if he beat is limited and all that, but this team is an embarrassment on the offensive end of the floor. Their inability to create easy shots, their inability to adjust mid-game. Like, where was the attacking of James Harden? He couldn't move his feet. He had that one nice play poking the ball away from Yanis on an ISO near the right elbow.

But other than that, his feet were in sludge. He couldn't move. So why are you not bringing him in to set the screen, be the screen or defender, get him on an ISO from the perimeter of Chris Middleton or Drew Holiday, an attack? It wasn't happening. Where is the creativity? What took so long for Bud to pull Brooke Lopez out of the game when Kevin Durant was just picking him apart, taking pull up after pull up after pull up? Why wasn't Yannis defending KD at all? Not once.

Where was it? Switch it up. Throw different guys at him. It's a joke. I have no faith in this Bucks team to win anything. It's the one guy that we've ever seen block a Kevin Durant jump shot. In the ever. In what 15 years?

We've never seen somebody block a Durant jumper outside of Yonis. And you're right. On the Lopez thing, like it's one of those, you know, that's a juxtaposition too, Kev. It's like you know that. and this is how Nash thinks because of how many pick and rolls he ran over the course of his year, if you put somebody out there, like the second you're going to put that dude in the game, we are going to attack him until you pull him out of that game. They can't play Brent Forbes.

They put Brent Forbes in. It's like this guy, he's got the scarlet letter on his head, right? Like, and same thing, but you flip it to the other side, and it's like the nets, they sit there and they say, right, where's our advantage? Now, we're going to put the screws to you with this over and over and over again. If you're going to lead this dude out here, this is what we're going to do. And on the flip side, it's like the bucks, like, they don't exploit anything.

They don't exploit anything. I mean, there we are again. Game on the line, like this is nip-tuck stuff, and Janus walks in. to a brick three, which carombed over to Brooke Lopez, who, like, he wasn't in rebounding position. That ball was such a halacious brick. It shot off to him in the corner. And then they got that, you know, the, the bump foul on Hardin

because he can't move his feet. Like, he should be able to move his feet. Like, Hardin was consistently just trying to draw calls because he couldn't move his feet. And he can't move laterally like he needs to be able to move laddering. And you saw even all those times where Janus had the ball at the top of the key. And it's like Hardin was just standing there inside the free throw line. Like what are you going to do, man?

Like I can, like I got one leg, but I can stand here. You got drive past me? Like I at least try to steal the ball for me or knock it off your foot or whatever else. And just bizarre. Like, you know, they tried to run that side pick and roll with him at Holiday. Nothing. Holiday air ball in there. I mean,

God, I didn't, they didn't replay it. I hope somebody hit his elbow or something, because what the hell was that elbow airball? I mean, these are in like the, I mean,

how many times do we come on here and I'm chronicling like the critical possessions and the ones where you just need a bucket and some of the shots they take and what they get, just the kind of, of shots they get. And this Brooklyn team, they are making them look much better defensively than they are.

They really are. The Brooklyn team is not, the thing is not loaded with defenders. And they should be able to exploit this Brooklyn team. And they just can't. And, you know, Janus, again, he's got the big numbers in this game. And I've listened to people beat up Janus over the course of the last couple of weeks. And I'll just say this. I do view it a lot.

Dude, the prism of, and it probably, you know, it just colors my judgment a little bit when I told you, I did that whole bit last week about guys being 27 or older. Yeah, yeah. And he's 25, you know? And I do think to myself, like, because I even heard they were doing all the player, their, ranking all the players. They're talking about guys that could take you to a championship or whatever else. And this is Rissilo and Bill on their Sunday night pod. And he was talking about who he would take Janus behind. One of them was. And I mean, it was all guys that were older. Everybody. And so like, you know, and now I'm hearing those names and I'm thinking, yeah, they're all been in

the league longer. And, you know, in two years, hopefully we'll look back and we'll be like, man, that's not what Janice was two years ago. I can remember people thrashed and beat two years ago. Yeah. Like I don't know what it is. I don't know why. I'm not a psychology matter as to why it all matches up. And so many times the great players in history have been 27 or older.

And that includes LeBron. That includes Jordan. That includes Curry. It includes all manner of guys that I chronicled. But Janus will these, he's still learning from the, experiences he has been so good so fast he's won two MVP's at a very early age but he is still he is still younger than then then the guys that usually are the best guys on the teams that win the whole thing and still younger there's still room to improve Chris that's right I mean

in two years you would assume he's a different guy than he's like we say that as somebody who like he's one of defensive player of the year he's one to him to that's three MPs Tonight he had 34 points on 14 of 22 from the field, 12 rebounds. It's not like he had a bad night. It's not like he had a bad night, right? No. But it's the little things. It's the fact that sometimes when he has a post-up situation,

late in the game in that fourth quarter, he's posting up James Harden. He goes to a turnaround jump shot. That's right. Like, where's the power post moves? Be Shaquille O'Neal. Be tough. Be strong.

Be a bully. That's the next step, in my opinion, for Janus is developing and honing his footwork on the low post in order to just destroy anybody who is smaller than him. Destroy them. He should crush James Hardin. I don't care how good of a post-defender James Hardin is. No.

Yonis needs to have a better move than a turnaround jumper. And that goes for every situation for him, too. And look, Budenholzer is one of an awful lot of games. Sometimes I think the Budenhouser stuff can be unfair, right? Anything good that happens is never credit to him. Yeah. Anything bad that happens, he's the worst coach ever, right? It's like not always his fault.

It's the position he is in now, but he is now in that realm of the guy that anything bad that happens or they lose, it's the coach. If they win, it's not the coach. I mean, I'll tell you what, Chris. But you're in that, he's in that zone. I'll tell you what, Chris. Like my understanding is some of the top coaching can. candidates out there, the names you're hearing, Achonty Billups, you know,

they're waiting to see if that buck's job opens up. So like until we find out what happens with Milwaukee and Boonehouser, it's, you want me to tell you if it's going to open up? Sure looks like it might. And we also in the coming days might have some huge coaching knows elsewhere too, so we'll see what happens. Oh, really?

Interesting. Wow. I'm going to tell you this, Kev. Butanholzer, you look at that team and how they have performed offensively, and it's just not, you cannot. Look, you can't excuse it. You can't. You can't excuse it, and it has just not been, this has been a worst of.

You know, they have a wounded team that they're going up. against that they have not exposed. I got to read you a tweet, Chris. I'm sorry. I have to. Okay. From Reggie Miller. Okay.

I'm just going to throw this out there to see what the responses will be. If you're Steve Nash and the Nets, would you sit James Hard and Kevin Durant in game six because of the heavy minutes tonight and push all your chips to the center of the table for game seven? So like you mentioned earlier, people might talk about the minutes load. There you go. There you go, Chris. From Reggie Miller, NBA Hall of Famer.

Look. What do you think about that, Chris? What do you think? I want to know your response. I said, number one, that's asinine. Did he get hacked? Maybe not. Maybe not.

You never know. Probably not. I don't think so. Number two, I said this at the beginning, Kev. And, you know, I do think that another coach, it would be a bigger topic in the moment than I felt like it was. Because he's a former player and because he's been through it because he's done it. He's also intensely likable. And he's also brand new.

You know what I'm saying? We don't really have a track record on him. Right. But if you would have had, it's just the situation that Durant is in right now. So you're saying he's not Tibido. If you were Tibido, I'd be like, he's running in the sky. Kevin Ray, Torr's ACA, Achilles two years ago. Oh, you're playing this guy for 40 minutes, 48 minutes.

You shouldn't have a job. Maybe the Tibador. I'd fire him today. Is that what they would say? Maybe the Tibbs thing is a little extreme just because there is a track record of guys having their careers altered. And many have blamed that on the extreme amount of minutes, you know, for Noah and Rose and dang and there's a litany of guys, right?

Heinrich, there's a lot of guys. I played a lot of minutes for Tibido and didn't play as long as many of their peers. So he may be extreme, but, you know, I don't know, like another coach running just him specifically, right, out there for 48 minutes. It's just that it's the full, I don't think, I don't think people understand how rare that is, you know, to not have any rest.

You know, because sometimes you can, you know, you sit them, even if sometimes at the end, it's like they played 45 minutes, which is extreme. It's like you caught him a minute rest here, a minute rest there, but it's a huge game. And so, yeah, they're playing damn near the whole time. It's just that it's Kevin. And by the way, he didn't stay healthy this. year. This isn't just about coming back from the injury. Chris, he didn't stay healthy this year. On that note, that's the thing. The Nets were overly cautious during the season because they were

still winning games. Right. You know, like you're going to play it safe until it matters. So they played it extra, extra safe at a time like everybody's understandably complaining about the fact that we're missing out on a lot of stars. Stars are missing games. They're sitting out. It's disappointing. People pay, you know, obviously there weren't a lot of fans. You know, obviously there weren't a lot of in the crowd this season, but when things are normal, people pay money to get in the stands. They pay money for their cable package, their TV package, to watch these great players. So it is disappointing. But that's why the Nets do it is because so when it comes to the point where you got to play your guys 40 plus minutes,

you can on a night you need a win and you're depleted. Like Steve Nash said in the sideline interview between quarters, you know, we need it tonight. And Kevin, the way he was on, like if you're a coach, sometimes you're just going to go off your gut, go up with a vibe. And Kevin Durant, the way he was playing tonight in complete control did not ever once. Did Kevin Durant ever seem tired? I don't think he ever seemed tired on offense or defense, the entire freaking game. You know what I think he was?

I think he was tired. I think Kevin Durant was tired about hearing about PJ Tucker's when he's tired of. Yeah, that's what he, yeah, you're right. He was actually very tired just in that way. He was exhausted. I think he was tired of hearing about PJ Tucker and how difficult PJ Tucker made it on him. Totally worn out. That's for sure.

And so look, this is the, the, the bucks, it's a game six, it's at home. No, they, they get certainly, it's hard to believe that we're going to get a good, great, whatever you want to call James Harden, right? Like James Hardin, he's not going to be back and available to be the guy by the next game. Right. We've only got a couple days between this. So by the next time they go out there, it's hard to imagine. He's also gained some weight. You could tell. You know, I mean, you fall out of basketball shit. Yeah. Well, you got to stay off your legs. You know what I mean? Yes, exactly. You got to stay off your legs. Um, it's very scary. Really watch it. It's got to be terrifying for the bucks. If, you know, Hardin is. I mean, what was he? Like 25%? 30% of his normal self tonight? Maybe. Maybe. Anywhere close. If you get like, like, anywhere close. If you get like, like, like, you get, like, like, like, like 60%, 69, 70% James Hardin. No way. That's nice for the Nets and very bad news for the bucks.

Very, very, very bad news. But after watching him tonight, there's no way they get 60, 70% James Hardin. There's just no way. Not in two days. I mean, he was one for 10 and he couldn't move. And he was not going to drive to the basket. And he, I mean. Early season Hardin with the Rockets when he's just tanking games, not really trying.

He wants a trade. He still even had some great performance. So, like, you could still have James Harden. I mean, he had eight assists tonight. It's not like he can't pass. If he hits a couple more shots, a couple setbacked three. And he had a couple of rebounds and he had a couple plays. Yeah, he had the poke on Janus.

He had some moments. But for the most part, I was just, I'm still flabbergasted. I'm flabbergasted by Boon and Holzer and that staff not going at Hardenmore. Where was it? I don't know what happened. And they're going to look back at the film and see a lot of missed opportunities. Yeah. And maybe they will go at it.

him the next time around. They do have another crack at this. They do. Yeah, they do. I don't think the series is necessarily over. I don't. We've just done this. We've done this back and forth five times now, right? It looked like they were going to get buried. But let's keep in mind, this went down to the last possessions. Yeah. Six-point game. And Kevin Durant just had 49, 17, and 10. Like, that's what that took. It took at home, 49, 17, and 10. So I, I, I don't want to do the burial of the bucks. But when you got that kind of a lead, you got to put your foot on somebody's neck.

And they were up huge. They were up huge. They played a really good first half. But they just got deranted in the second half of that game. Let's move to some of these others. The other one in the east, you know, I had said I wouldn't be surprised of Atlanta. I got one of those home games.

But if I'm being honest, I probably thought it would be game three. And then after game three, I thought, there was a big part of me that thought, you know, second half of game one, they found something here. You know, they let Danny Green stop getting tire marks on his back. And they put Thibald and Simmons on tray to make it a little more difficult on him. There's no DeAndre Hunter for Atlanta. And it's going to be a really tough road to hoe.

And so after game three, another 16 point victory, I thought, oh, geez, maybe they did just figure this out. I mean, they're clearly the better team. They've been the better team all year. But that they figured out how they want to do this. And now Atlanta is in big, big trouble. Latter resolve for Atlanta, because it looked again last night like they were about to get run out of the building. And not only did they not get run out of the building, they made. mounted the comeback and then

we're able to get the win down the stretch. Tray Young with their crazy 18 assist. One of the kickouts he had when he kind of like went up for the layup and then kind of brought it back down and went back up and made the wrap around pass to the left corner three. That was a

just an absolutely gorgeous pass. That's one of those plays like that makes this game of basketball just so beautiful. Such an extreme number 18. And only two turnovers. Just two. Two turnovers.

Yes. He's a special passer, man. He really is for a, like, we taught, like, there's a lot of great passers in the NBA, LeBron James, you know, Luca, you know, a lot, like, a lot of them are bigger guys, Ben Simmons. Trey Young is tiny. It's harder for a small guy. Like, this is what makes Chris Paul so extraordinary. Chris Paul, a smaller guy for years has just picked apart defenses.

He knows how to use his body to his advantage. Trey Young has some of those similar qualities as well where he doesn't let, his size be a limitation to him. Like he plays bigger than his body as a playmaker. He's a special passer, man. I love watching that guy play basketball. Well, and I'm going to tell you, there are these kids that are now coming up that we have, and I remember us talking about this, maybe it was, I don't know, probably three weeks

ago now. And, you know, it was in reference to Devin Booker. It was a reference to John Morant when he got to play Golden State and then five days later play them in a play-in game. We talked about it with Luca. We talked about it with Trey. And it was these guys, when they get in these high stakes games, they are, you know, what happens after they run into some real problems?

What happens when they run into some struggle where a team decides, okay, you don't get to do it that way anymore. And you have seen every one of those young guys that we talk. talked about. And obviously this has happened with Mitchell, too, in Utah. There's a lot of young players in this league. I'm talking about the under 25s. But the ability for all these guys to have prosperity, another team decides, okay, we're keying in on you. We're keying in on what you want to do. And we're going to make your life hell. And they do. And then these players, every single one of those ones, Kev,

have adjusted and figured out a way to be effective. That it happened with Morant, it happened with Luca, it happened with Trey, it happened with Booker. You remember the Booker? You know, it was like, oh, look, now they're making it hard on Devin Booker.

You know, they figured out how they want to guard Devin Booker, and it's like, the marks of great players is when you take your, lump when you get shut down when another team decides this is how we're going to make your life hell and then they're able to come back they get to go back and they say all right now i'm going to change my way i want to play i want to change my way that i'm going to attack and across the board we've talked so many times about how the league is in good hands but these young stars and the ability to be good get shut down or struggle and then be great again,

I mean, that is the mark of great players. We just saw it with Duran. That is what this is all about. That's when you're great. You're great when PJ Tucker gives you problems, when you flail around, you know, in the second half of that game four, and it's just a struggle for you all night,

and then you come back and you set everybody on fire. You know what I mean? Like with Hell's Fury. Like Durant, he took his lumps in that game five or a game four. He came back and he just, he melted everybody. And you see these young guys, though, doing it. And it's crazy. Yeah, for sure.

Over and over again. And Trey was the last one. It's like, okay, they figured out Trey or Trey's not going to be that dude. Look at the freaking numbers again. I put up last night. That's freaky. And then it gets a number one defense. Yep. And then sometimes some of these great young players,

Joelle and Bede, have stinkers. And Bede was played maybe his worst half of basketball. I mean, he did not look right. He did not look totally healthy. And if you're the Sixers here, you know, in this tight series now, you better hope you

have a healthy Joelle Lombie if you get by Atlanta for next round because you're not beating the Nets. You're not beating the bucks if you have knights like this from Joel Lambide. And it's like it's a shame he's dealing with this meniscus injury. But he still had like what, 20 rebounds. He had 17 points, 21 rebounds, four assists, but he was on four of 20 in the field, four of 20. So, you know, you got to get more from Joel on beat. That was a horrible second half for him. And, you know, maybe you will. You know, it could have just been an aberration. Maybe he just wasn't feeling great.

But he admitted after the game, he's obviously dealing with the pain, dealing. with it. But this is what I've talked about, though, right? Like, this is, this is what we're seeing with these guys. Would it shock you at all if Joel and Bede came back and had a 15 for 20 night with 43 points and 19? That's the crazy thing. It's like you get to do it against them, but then they come back the next time around and they figure stuff out for themselves. And I do think that's probably in the cards.

happy for the Atlanta fans to just get to see a home playoff win in a high stakes game. And they got some gamers on their team, man. I can't help but like it. I mean, like, you know, I love Dynovich. I love him. He is just. Oh, can you imagine him on the Bucks? Oh, my God.

I'm sure they do every day. I'm sure they do every single day. It honestly is kind of unfortunate. that secondary ball handling presence who can hit clutch shots off the dribble contested who can play off ball who is fearless who can make smart passes

fits great alongside Trey on this Hawks team it sure would have looked great alongside the Milwaukee Bucks. I'm going to tell you something though Kevin Holiday has been an immense letdown for me I'm a holiday guy

I'm a holiday guy I love holiday I remember how awesome he was in that series against Portland when we finally got to see him in the playoffs. And it was like everybody started giving him his flowers because him and AD and they ran the Blazers off the court. And it was like, oh, Drew Lowe, he's like an all defensive guy. Andy's awesome. He's one of the most underrated players in the league.

I mean, good grief, man. Do something. Give me a 25. Give me a, like, come on. Like, I know that he's not like focal point of the offense. or whatever, but like, good night. He just, he has not been. Like, that's why you stay underrated, man.

Like, you gotta be, you know, you want to be, you want to be rated where you should be rated? He's an outstanding defender still. There's no doubt about it. The guy is a great defender. But in terms of offensively, I mean, I need one of these nights for you to go big, like big, big. he has always considered himself a two guard.

Do you think that's part of it that like this Bucks team, like they're starting five, Drew Holliday, Brooke Lopez, Chris Millington, Yonis Sende de Koumpo, P.J. Tucker. There's no, there's no pure playmaker on that group. There's nobody who's a pure passer. And not that you need that. You don't necessarily need that, but you got to have somebody who can step into that role and do it at a high level. And Drew Holiday has never been that guy.

He's always been at his best when he's sharing. the back court with another guy who takes on those responsibilities primarily so he can do what he does best, focusing on defense and also being a spot-up shooter, cutting to the rim, and attacking secondary guys off the dribble. And in this situation, he doesn't necessarily get those chances quite as much. There's almost too much on his plate. But that's to your point. I mean, sure would have been nice to see a higher level to his game.

But if anything, he's just looked worse with the increased opportunity. Maybe, you know, I've never really thought about this. but you know how, you know who else had a lot, who has, you get the best out of them under those circumstances, is the guy, he's obviously not playing because he got hurt, is the guy across from him in Kyrie. Yeah. Right?

Maybe you're miscast as being the guy that's got to run everything, you know? It's not like he does run everything. No, no, no, but I'm saying like you're the guy like that. He runs enough. You bring the ball at the court the majority of the time, right? Yeah, and you want more from him. Well, and he said, look, he said seven, 13, 9, 14, 19.

Those are the numbers in these games. So he hadn't had a 20-point game in the series yet. This was the biggest one tonight, which was 19. Would he end up 7-4-16? He's gone to the free throw line five times in the series. Five. Better bring more. Against a team with no rim protection.

Better bring more game six. You know what I'm saying? Like, I think this guy's a gamer. I think he's a player. And it's like, I mean, look, if I give anybody 37 to 45 minutes, they're getting me 14 points. You play anybody in the league. That's replacement level stuff. If I'm playing you 40 minutes, like surely.

Yeah. I mean, anybody is going to get me, you know, those kind of numbers. Like, come on, man. We'll see what he does in game six and game seven potentially. Yeah. But some guys just reach their limits. And it's about situation. Sometimes it's about opportunities.

Some guys thrive with that, like Donovan Mitchell, who every step of the way seems to get better and better and better. Granted that series is tied now, but sometimes people stop getting better. Others don't stop getting better. Well, and I didn't want to skip over. We'll go back to this Atlanta affiliate thing. Do you think that obviously this is going to be so much based on Embed and health? The Sixers, you know, not only was Embed not very good. they had what a 17, 18 point lead in that game?

And then Atlanta got back in the game at all the confidence of the world. And I mean, look, Trey Young, we talked about the 18 assist. He had 25 points on 26 attempts. So they made him inefficient again. Collins had some big shots down the stretch. Big step up from the past game. where he didn't do enough. Yeah, he did.

But I mean, I don't know. We talked so much about what could be replicated. And I guess it's going to be dependent on the NBA. That's like an all-time bad Embed game. That really, that might be, I mean, I would imagine, I have not, I haven't looked this up. There's no way he's ever been four for 20 in a game. Yeah.

Ever in any game he's ever played in his life, including the first time he learned how to play basketball. He probably wasn't four for 20. There's no way. I believe he had a offer once. Not for 20. Not on 20 shots. No, no, not on 20 shots.

Four for 20. No, not on 20 shots. This is abysmal. You know what I mean? Like, at his size, there's just no way. I mean, you almost never. Yeah. I bet there haven't been many, I bet there have not been,

somebody could look this like basketball references, seven footers. I don't have time to put in all the parameters, but seven footers that have had, that have, that have hit four or less field goals on 20 attempts. I wonder if it's ever happened. Like seven footers just don't miss.

Maybe it would be like one of those, maybe one of these perimeter guys, like a poor Zingis or something. That's, I'm talking about a center though. Joel and B, like his worst game prior to this was probably November 25th, 2019. He had zero points on a,

11 shots against the Raptors during a regular season game. So, of course, that's regular season, not playoffs. It's Marcosol, by the way. I just thought I'd mention that. Yeah, the guy who didn't play enough for the Lakers in the playoffs, right? Yeah, I mean, he definitely did. They may still be in it. That could be.

And so we get the bright now sons. How about that, Chris, huh? Hey, look. Pretty cool. Pretty cool. You got to admit, it's cool. There's no question. It's cool.

look when I saw Chris Paul do his speech about him being counted out and about two years ago people write me all talking about worst contract and all this kind of stuff and then seeing Monty Williams Oh my God post game

Yeah just talk about He was you know Chris was with me In the darkest times of my life And that's heavy That is heavy You know I've been I've been trying to work on some more features lately, like different feature stories that

should hopefully be out in the coming weeks, depending on how the playoffs go. And like, you know, just doing those. It's the relationships that people build that are most powerful, right? In this sport, there are any career you have. It's the relationships that you build, you know, that are lifelong or sometimes that are meaningful for a brief amount of time in your life, right? Sometimes people come and go in your life. But those relationships along the way, they all turn.

you into the person that you become. And to see Monty Williams and Chris Paul talk about, you know, kind of come in full circle, you know, being together again to have a moment to achieve this after so many years. And they've, in their own respective ways, been through different types of adversity. I don't know. It's powerful stuff, man. Like I said, it made me tear up watching that Monty Williams, you know, riff that he went on about just his life and, you know, the relationship with CP3. It's a cool thing to witness that group, accomplish so much already and still have so much left to do. Because that's different.

You know what I mean? That's different. That's different. You just feel different. You feel different when it's him, when it's him getting to experience that. That's not Mike DeAnon and James Hardin. That's not Nick Nurse and Kauai Leonard.

That's not, you know what I'm saying? This is, this is a different deal. That's, that's as close as you can be with somebody, you know, experiencing what Monty went through

and Chris being there for him and by his side. That's different than your normal coach player relationship. And let me just, let me speak on Chris Paul real quick. So I was like everybody else. Chris Paul coming out of Wake Forest took the league by storm. He was very good immediately. He was on some not great teams and was an all-star rather quickly.

And I liked Chris Paul, just like everybody else, like Chris Paul. And then Clippers Chris Paul made me sick to my stomach. I mean, I could not stand him. I, because look, as a Grizzlies fan, we have wars with them. He was like the guy along with Blake and DeAndre that were the floppers. And these floppers that flop around and there's these wars and whatever. And he's always complaining to the reps and the antics. And he's just a rival, right?

Like, you know how we talk about? I never hated the guys. Like sports, I always respected the guy, right? And then as time went on, you know, Houston, I was more on the Chris Paul side, the James Hardin side. So that got a little odd because I'd never been really a Chris Paul guy. And then I told you during quarantine, I had to do all these film things. And a lot of them were going back and watching those games. and partly that, watching him throughout those, but more so, and I've never, like,

disliked him, like personally, by any means he's always been super professional guy, and I've been well aware of how awesome he truly is the whole time, whether I couldn't stand him or not. I watch those tapes, but then more, and I really, you know, you start to warm up to him. I'm going to tell you something. My opinion changed so dramatically in some ways, and my feelings changed so dramatically some ways last year. You know, that doesn't end the way he wants it to end in Houston. He gets traded to Oklahoma City.

And this is the moment, Kevin, especially when he's 35 years old. This is the moment if you're Chris Paul. You're like, man, F this. get me out of here get me out of here I'm 35 do you like look at my look at the amount of time I got left how much basketball I got left in this body

I'm gonna spend a year in Oklahoma playing with Danilo Gallinari and Gilderce Alexander and Stephen Adams like where where we go Lou Dort like that's who my that's who I'm playing alongside that's what's happening here and he didn't say nothing

Nothing. He didn't make a peep in an age where we watch Blake Griffin bail on a team. James Hardin, bail on a team. Kevin Love just embarrass himself bailing on a team. They're paying these guys $30, $40 million. They don't do shit. They just, they dog it, literally dog it just so they can try to. So hopefully you'll buy me out or get me out of here or whatever else. And Chris Paul could have gone about that all different ways, and nobody would have been out there blaming him because they would have said he's 35. He didn't want to play in Oklahoma City. He could have said, get me to Milwaukee, get me to Miami, get me to a place where I got a chance to go win a title. And instead, he put that team on his back. They were the best fourth quarter team, best clutch team in the NBA.

He was the best clutch player in the NBA. and carried their ass to a game seven in the playoffs, turns around and signs with Phoenix, his buddy Monty Williams, who hasn't done anything in forever, over a decade, and elevates them to a point where they're in the West Finals. And we got to go back and think, New Orleans, then you go to Clippers.

The Clippers for 30 years were a rat organization. and he got them to a spot where they made the playoffs every single year and had a chance, you know, at making runs. And to do that in L.A. And to do that now in Phoenix and to elevate that, you don't think Chris Paul could have gone to San Presti and said, yo, I'll be a good soldier, but get me to where I want to get. His choice was to go to Phoenix.

That's where he wanted to go, you know? And I'll do it there. I'll do it with them. I'll do it with Devin Booker. Not the obvious. You know what I mean? He could have gone and tried to team up with two other guys like everybody else does. He could have gone and dogged it until Oklahoma City just has to send him home like Al Horford or get rid of him or whatever.

Instead, I mean, he put a team on his back in Oklahoma City and gave it everything he had, got him to a game seven. And then he goes to signs with Phoenix and look at him, man. He's in the damn Western Conference finals. And I think, you know, we're talking about Chris Paul, the player, Monty Williams, the coach. We also have to mention James Jones, the general manager. Absolutely. Who has put together this team who has assembled an entire roster of smart, hardworking individuals who are selfless and work together for the greater good. They embrace their roles.

They lift each other up. They have complementary skills. James Jones, you know, there is some good stuff. from the pass regime, a lot of bad stuff. He got rid of all the bad stuff and brought in a lot more good stuff and has helped create this roster for Monty Williams to work with and install a system and bring in players and put them in positions to succeed at the highest level. And this son's roster, I mean, I don't know what's going to happen in the Western Conference.

We don't even know their opponent yet. But for them to get to this point in their first year with Chris Paul with this new group together. It already is a season for the ages for any Suns fan. This is a memorable team, and it's really the start of something because of how young all these other guys are. And the fact, Chris Paul doesn't look anywhere near the end, does he, Chris? He still looks like he's ready to go for as long as he wants to. It's something else watching him. But kudos really to that entire organization, James Jones, to Monty Williams, to Chris Paul, and that entire roster. It's sensational what they've done. I agree with you. He is a guy that Jones, who obviously,

obviously has to be trustworthy. You don't have a guy like that. This is, yeah, it looks like Chris has got a lot of basketball left, but it also doesn't look like, you know, we're not talking infinite time here, right? Like, in terms of being the guy and I can take over the game, and by the way, that was his last game, their closeout game was an absolute masterpiece for him. It's as good as you will ever see him. If you told somebody he's 22, they believe it.

He was that amazing in that game. Athletically, too. I mean, he's just creating his space, getting to where he wanted to on the court. But, you know, you've got to be able to trust James Jones. And the other thing is this. One of the sneaky, unbelievable signings in all a free agency is Crowder.

And you can go back and you can find these stories. Crowder was a free agent after Miami where he played in those finals last year for them, right? Crowder was asked about how many you know, how many teams they heard from.

It was over 20. There was over 20 teams that won a Jay Crowder in the all season. I mean, he could have chosen anywhere. So why? You know what I mean? You obviously, you, you, you, you, This is a team that two years ago won 19 games.

And to have Monty Williams and Chris Paul and flip this into a thing where a guy that's got offers all over the NBA is willing to say, you know what, I'll go there. I'll go play there with that group. That's what I'll do. I interviewed Jay Crowder for the story I wrote about the Sons earlier this season. And he told me a story about how, you know, I mean, clearly Miami did low ball. him. They couldn't offer quite as much as Phoenix or other teams could, but he said, you know,

when Devin Booker first called him, he was unsure. He's like, this team hasn't done anything for years. And he says he thought about it more, talked with a couple of people. And he's like, you know what, being part of this potential thing, you know, with this group can be special. It can be meaningful. This is a group that's hungry, a city and a fan base that's hungry. And he wanted to be part of that. I know this is like some cliche sounding stuff. I wanted to be part of something special. But I totally buy it. I totally buy it. He's always been that type of guy. He's always been about the team and always been about making winning plays. And Devin Booker, the way he made that pitch, maybe he had some idea that Chris Paul might be coming too.

You know, he made the right choice. It's a perfect situation for him. It's a perfect basketball fit. And look at where they are. Western Conference Finals, a chance to go to the NBA finals. That's right. And players always, every coach that never gets hired, you know what they come in and they say. they all say the same damn thing they all talk about the culture they're all going to establish the culture there needs to be a culture we're going to create a culture here whatever let me tell you what creates culture players that's who creates culture you know what i mean it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's telling me that the way he learned about being a professional was when he was a rookie he showed up to practice and duncan and genobley were already there

now the impact that has on a young guy the impact that has on a young guy the impact that has on a guy, right? A young guy looked at that and he goes, wait, hold on now. I can't be here after they are here. They've been in the league for 15 years, right? And that's how it has to be. And so when Chris Paul and the Jay Crowders of the world, when they walk in that door and they're the guys that are, you're not going to outwork them and you're not going to, they're not taking, you know, the night off. And they're not going to, they're always going to fight every, every game. And they're also going to practice, every practice, you know, and they're not going to try to get the coach to cancel practice.

And like, it's right place, right time. And, you know, I see this a lot with children, too, obviously, as I have some. So many times people nowadays think that these kids, and they're overly aggressive and bad guys that can coach, right? I'm well aware of that. But I will say in terms of like the hard on them and the discipline and stuff, I've watched it with my own eyes and I've watched it with my own son. They crave that.

They crave that. They really do, you know. They don't want the substitute teacher that just lets them do anything. They want somebody to teach them. They want somebody to show them the way. They want to be a part of something. And that's not. That's the human condition.

And I can only imagine the Devin Bookers, the DeAndre Aitens, the other guys that have been around, you know, that when they walk in, they see that. And it's like, you know, maybe like a Blake Griffin and DeAndre Jordan, they're more like kind of peers with Chris. So when Chris is yelling at them back in the day, it comes off like, man, I have this guy. And they resent him. these guys, they don't resent him at all. They couldn't resent him less. And you see the other night, they were playing Denver,

they were running out on him. There's 18 seconds left. He was yelling at him. Chris Paul. I mean, that's the kind of stuff that the Clippers guys were all like, man, shut up. Sometimes, sometimes.

He was alone, right? It's too much. Sometimes you need friction. Yeah. Sometimes you need somebody who's criticizing you. Yeah. Criticizing you, directing you.

directing you. And like, it's about oftentimes how you take it and how you respond to it. Because, like, nobody's perfect. And if you're criticized, it's not necessarily some indictment on your character and who you are. If anything, there can be some truth rooted in criticism. Not always. Sometimes it's, there's nothing to it. But, like, you know, if you're a player on the court and Chris Paul, a future

Hall of Famer is telling you this or that, like, maybe there's something there and something I'll learn from. And, you know, this is a guy who's won at the high. level is not won a championship. Maybe he will. There's still a lot of time for him. And with this son's team, they could. But he's been through it all.

And if you're not going to listen to that guy, I'm not sure I'd want you on my team. If you're not going to listen to Chris Paul's feedback. Well, truth be told, he's probably, I'd say two things. He's probably better about communicating with guys. Because he probably improved too. He's older, wiser. Because he's learned.

Yeah. And I'm sure that even when he's tough on guys, there's probably some good cop, bad cop that goes on with him, and Moni. Yeah. You know what I mean? For sure. Where it's like usually there's the play.

It's almost like a switch of roles. Usually it's the player that, you know, it's the player that does the, hey man, it's okay. It's okay. And that's Monty here. Yeah, right? It's almost like usually it's the player that has to walk over. Camera Pee goes to Monty's office. Chris yelled at me.

Yeah, right. Yeah. It's okay. It's okay. Just keep on. It's all right, man. Right. Yeah.

And then he finds a way to take Chris Paul's criticism, shows him some film and say, here's what Chris was talking about. That's right. Good cop, bad cop is a real freaking thing, dude. Oh, 100%. It's effective. Absolutely. One last thing on them.

Chris has got a great matchup either way. No matter who wins between Utah and the clippers, he's got a very good matchup. Chris Paul versus Jazz drop defense or just facing the clippers. Chris Paul versus the Clippers would be some drama, huh? Either one. All right, Kevin, you got to explain something to me. What's that, Chris? What's going on?

Taking off your glasses. Yeah, this friggin' tie lou. I mean... What's going on? Look. What's bothering you now, Chris? No. He's not bothering me now.

I just don't get why it's taking two games twice. He gets to the right thing. He does. But it's like somebody men in black zapped him for like he forgot the Dallas series. So he turns around and he goes back with this Zubots thing and not playing Terrence, man. And it's like, wait, didn't we just watch this? And of course we'd had. And so that's what he does against Utah.

And then by the time they get to three and four, which were, you know, in Dallas, the last series, but this time they were in L.A. But by the time they get to three and four, he's starting Baton, he's not going big anymore. He's doing this interchangeable thing. Terrence Bans did the rotation,

and it's like, hold on, man. Like, why? Like, we've seen the numbers. We see how devastating they can be with this group. And it took him, you know, a couple of games before that got figured out in that first round.

And what's just so odd to me is it's like literally the same stuff. Like the same stuff just happened in the last series. And now it's happened in this series. And like I think what we said from the beginning. They've got the goods. It's just bizarrely like, I don't know, tried. tried something that remember there was no Luke Conard even and Luke Canard

literally beat Dallas in a game by hitting the shots he beat them and he wasn't even playing it was like no Luke Conard and then they come out last night again they're starting Baton Rudy gets played off the floor with fouls Kauai you know is murdering Derek Favors at the rim

the Clippers and George and Kauai are both unbelievable simultaneously two games in a row. And I just can't, I can't figure out why it takes him a little bit to get there. But he does get there. He does. I mean, so do I give him credit for getting there? Or do I still get frustrated with the fact that you pissed away two games for no reason?

It's just weird. I mean, he got to that point and, you know, maybe they'll have to be another adjustment again. Right now what they're doing, like nothing specifically is working against Donovan Mitchell. He has elevated his play to the point that there's no scheme that works against him. He always has something to defeat you. But them going to the blitz, throwing it in there randomly, occasionally trapping and doubling and he has an opportunity with the ball. It's working to just, you know, screw with their rhythm and what they're doing. but if Mike Conley returns, that changes everything because Conley and Gobert have that connection

in the pick and roll that could open up things up there. And then you have Mitchell in a situation where there's another primary guy who can create shots for him away from the ball, bringing him off handoffs and screens and cutting opportunities. If Conley's return in the series is the key. You know, if Utah gets Conley back, I feel pretty good about their chances. Maybe he'll give it a go. like we saw with James Harden tonight. I'd be a little bit surprised if he didn't. This is a must-win game, man.

It's time for Quinn Snyder to raise the minutes of his starters, 40-plus minutes for these key guys, time to ramp it up, play your best players, time to run your best plays, and time to get Mike Conley out there, even if he's a little bit limited. You need his playmaking. You've got to have him.

I know, but I just think, I think there is a possibility that a hobbled Conley actually hurts you more. And I say this as big a Conley fan as there is in the world. Because you could throw out Hobbled Hardin tonight and he got to the eight assists and he got to the five boards and he could at least stand in the paint so Janus doesn't just mow him over and be strong, right?

Boy, you want to talk about targeting somebody. And you got Conley on a bum wheel. you know what I mean like him holding up defensively and he is a guy that is that's what he does he's not the you know cerebral just kind of run like he's he's fast he's always been quick he's always been one triple pull up type guy he's always been beat you to the spot type of guy and a hobbled mike Conley, you know, again, just with a guy that's always been a quick guy, I think I don't know if it helps you in the same way because he doesn't, he doesn't provide the decoy that a hardened does.

You're right. And he's also struggled. So he's got to be good, you know. And he's struggled severely in the past when he's been limited. Remember when he had the Achilles thing a couple years ago? Yeah. And he looked like a total shelf. as former self. He looked nothing like the Mike Conley. We've watched Dominate in the pick and roll for

years. So to your point, you know, maybe you give it a try in the first quarter. If he doesn't look like himself, you pull the plug. And maybe that screws up your rhythm, you know, screws up your rotations. But to me, I think it's worth it. I really think it's worth it because that's when the jazz are off your best. When you have Conley in the starting five, you have Joe Engels coming off the bench. So that way you're not relying so much on Jordan Clarkson off the bench. Ingalls coming off that bench is when Utah is at their absolute best. I'd love to see them go with that. And not only that, Chris, you know, if the pick and roll with Gobert screening is going to be neutralized, let's see some stuff with like Joe Ingalls on the short roll. Set some screens for

Mitchell from like 28 feet out, 29 feet out. Get creative, get Ingalls on the short roll. Get Royce O'Neill on the short roll. I'd like to see a little bit of that, some new stuff from the jazz in this situation with the way the clippers are defending them. I think there's even if without Conley, there's a little bit more stuff that they can do on the offensive end. But even then, though, the clippers, as you said earlier, they're potent right now. They're looking with this group.

It goes on both ends of the floor as well. And they're just putting so much pressure on the jazz, even if you want to, you know, if you want to complain about the refs, and I'm sure there's a lot of Utah fans that are. I mean, you can't put the clippers on the line 38 times. And the one thing that is a little troubling, is, you know, in many cases, when the jazz lose a game, it's like, they just didn't hit their threes.

I mean, they were 17 to 42. They shot 41% from three and lost the game. I mean, I, do they ever not shoot 40%? I know. Pretty wild. I know. Almost every night. What would worry me is Kauai and George both being awesome,

simultaneously twice. It's one thing for them to do it once. And in fact, I heard Rosillo had this number the other day. And I was more in line with what I believe Simmons guessed than what the answer was. It was how many times have they both scored 30 in the same game since they've been with the Clippers? And I think Bill guessed like 22 or something like that, right? The answer was like five. They both scored 30 in the same game.

Like they have not been able to be simultaneously awesome. And yet these last two games, they have been simultaneously awesome. And that's troubling if you're, if you're Utah, right? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That one's a tough one. This is set up so much better. I thought these series were hurtling towards being pretty crap. And it's actually gotten way more interesting, partly because of injury, but however we got there, we got there.

You know, there was the one runout series with Phoenix. but the other three, you know, they're all in the balance. Is there anybody, I think Atlanta, that would stun me. That would stun me. There's not a winner in either of the other two series that would stun me. Clippers Jazz, no, and Bucks, Brooklyn. I think those, neither of those series, if any of those four teams won their series,

it would not stun me. If Atlanta did and Philly, you know, fell apart, I'd be stunned by that. That would be the one. That would. Yep. And if it does happen, it's probably because Embed isn't himself again. Yeah. I think that's fair.

It should be a very fun week. We'll have a lot of stuff to talk about by the time we come back on Thursday. I look forward. We'll be recording again Thursday night. So on your feed late Thursday, early Friday, depending on where you are in the world. Big thanks to Carlos for filling as a producer again this week. Appreciate everybody listening to Mismatch.

We will talk to you on Friday. Have a fun week, everybody.