The Mismatch - Knicks and Pacers Move On, Who’s Getting the Blame in Philly, and It’s Time to Give Brunson His Flowers

Episode Date: May 3, 2024

Verno and KOC go through Thursday night’s set of elimination games, starting with the Knicks surviving the 76ers and advancing to the next round (01:07). They debate who’ll get the blame in Philadelphia (other than Tobais Harris), how Jalen Brunson remains vastly underrated despite putting up Steph Curry-like numbers, and why Tyrese Maxey’s emergence is enough to keep Joel Embiid around for at least one more season. They then move on to the Pacers eliminating the Bucks, preview Game 6 between the Mavs and Clippers, and their wish for a Game 7 in the Cavs-Magic series (27:54). They last share their excitement for the Nuggets-Timberwolves series to begin this weekend (50:03). Got a question for Verno and KOC? Send them an email at [e-mail]! Or you can send the guys a tweet @ChrisVernonShow and @KevinOConnorNBA! The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up everybody? It's Austin Rivers from Offguard, and I've got some exciting news. Offguard hosted by me and my guide, Pasha Gigi, is officially moving to our own podcast feed. We are now dropping two shows every week. Me and Pasha go way back and talk so much hoops already that we figured it was time to fire up the mics and let you in on these conversations. Every week, Pasha and myself will hit on the biggest stories happening around the league. Tap into the show twice a week on our new Offguard feed on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. Welcome to the mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon and join him as he does every Thursday night from Theringer.com.

It's Kevin O'Connor, A.K.A. Kevin O'Bomber, Kevin O'Colk, Kevin O'Connor, Kevin O'Conflict, Kevin O'Candyland, Kevin O'Fee. Eliminations tonight. How's it going, man? There were two eliminations. We will get to both of the games that were being played. We are recording right after an epic Knicks Sixers game. the series. What a series, dude. You tweeted out. Why couldn't we get 21 of these?

Just cancel the rest and let me watch those two teams play. So good. 21 times. There was a moment in the first half of this game where it was 33 to 11, New York Knicks. And I could not help but think about that quote. You may have seen it that was going around today a lot from Nick Nurse. where he talked about themes within the series. And this was the quote,

I've decided nothing matters. They kill us on the glass, it goes down to the buzzer. We kill them on the glass, it goes down to the buzzer. Joel scores 50, it goes down to the buzzer. Jalen Brunson scores 47, it goes down to the buzzer. And so there I am, while it's 33 to 11, and I've got this Nick Nurse quote in my head and I'm like, is this for real going to go down to the buzzer?

Because this looks, this looks like a runout. And sure enough, there we are at the end of the game. Buddy Heel. To the buzzer again. Buddy Heel, where the hell did he come from?

Rose from the dead. Yeah, and then he became dead on that last shot of the game. Oh my God. I don't know if he thought he was going to get fouled quick. And that's why. But he had time. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. He had time. He had time. He rushed it. They could have got a way better look with 3.7. The whole end game was weird. Like I get going for two and down three, but then like the weak trapping and then Bid falls out.

I mean, it's just like the whole end game was strange. Look, you know that you and I were looking at this as objective of view, objective viewers. I am super interested to see where the blame game goes with this. Because I think it's fair to say, you and me, and I think most fans of teams are sitting back and watching this and getting to take it all in. And if it goes, if it ends tonight, it ends tonight. Man, wouldn't seven in Madison Square Garden be cool. But there will be fans, certainly, of the 76ers that play the blame game.

and yet it's not a super obvious one. There wasn't somebody that just threw up some colossal dud. Yeah, Embed got gas at the end, but he gave you 39 and 13 in a must-win game. Maxi started out super slow. You knew he was going to get mega attention after what he had done in the garden. But the other guys stepped up on that team. You know, the bench scoring was a. an absolute bloodbath tonight.

It was 42 to 5. 42 to 5 in bench scoring. Tibbs only played seven guys. Unbelievable. I mean, you know, they already hate Tobias Harris. What are you going to do? You know, bitch about his donut? Well, I mean, he did get 29 minutes.

It probably should have been zero. It's probably should have been. It's just for a nurse. I mean, he does have a more. shallow bench. He probably feels like in his eyes that he needs that 6-8, 6-9 forward body out there. But he is a complete zero. It was a donut in literally every single way for Tobias Harris. Yeah, but I mean, like, nobody, that's so fun as blaming Tobias Harris, right? They all, they, they were booing him earlier in the series anyway at home. So,

so for Philly to spin it forward, though, it is going to be incredibly easy to find an upgrade over Tobias Harris, and that will help the team a lot next season. He has been terrible. It was quite the grand finale for a guy they already didn't like, right? A fitting finale, to be honest with you, he was terrible all season, all series especially. We talked about it before in the non-imede minutes. Yes, you can blame Paul Reed. Yes, and all. Like, Maxi could have been better in those minutes. Well, that's what you pay Tobias Harris $40 million for us to elevate his play and be more like the Clippers version of himself when he can get more buckets and he never did that. Yeah, and that outlet for the extra attention that Embed

or Maxi was going to get, those, I mean, I don't think you could have filled in any better than Baton gives you 16 and Buddy Healed rises from the dead in a huge game and gives you 20 and six threes off the bench. And I will say, I was watching the game with my son and he's been watching this series with me loves it, love the series, obviously, as did every sports fan. And he was asking me down the stretch when Brunton was just cooking them. He's like, why, why are they not, why is Batum not on him all the time? Why don't they have the length on him? He was killing Buddy Healed.

And it was like, you can't let this happen. like Jalen Brunson could score on Buddy Healed 98 out of 100 times. And then what's crazy is, and this speaks to Brunson's absolute brilliance. They did get the switch on defense to Ubre. And then he had the quick move into the middle, stopped, let him run over him from the back, and then put it in. And so it's like the answer was it didn't really matter. who they had on Jalen Brunson. Brunson, three straight 40-point games, and I could not help but think about a discussion that we had. You may remember me bringing this up about a month

and a half ago. He was going crazy. I mean, he was averaging like, for a week, he was averaging almost 40 points. It was like between 35 and 40, and one player of the week and all that. And I said, you'll remember this. I said, is it possible? We've, we've kept done saying that the Achilles heel is going to be that you, we know throughout MBA history, you got to have like a top five guy in order to get it done. I do remember this conversation. And I said, is it possible that this is happening and we're not willing to realize it because we've got five years in our head?

but if you lined up the numbers, he is putting up curry numbers. No one considers him Steph Curry level. And yet go look at his season that he just had points per game from the field, from three. It's like that was a curry season. And then we got to the beginning of this series. It's like, oh, you know, this is where he's small. and the length is going to get to him.

And then he dropped 43 games in a row. And it's like, is he so much higher on a best NBA players list than any of us ever accepted? I do believe he is. I think so. I do. I mean, he averaged 35.5 points in the series. And that's including a 22 points on 26 game and a 24 points on 29 shots game. two very inefficient games to start the series.

And since then, 39 points on 27, 47 points on 34, 40 points on 32, and then tonight, 41 points on 27 shots. I mean, like low turnovers, high assist, nine assists in the series to only 2.8 turnovers. And the dude is an absolute gamer, clutch shots from mid-range, clutch threes, clutch passes. He is just a gamer. He is a baller in those end-game situations.

on top of just the raw numbers. So I think with Brunson, it is, I mean, you said it, you're right. Is he actually what he appears to be, right? Is he actually this? And I think the same question is worth raising now. Is he actually great enough to be the best player on a championship team? The way in which he's performing sure feels like it. I will add this, though.

I think the only counter argument playing devil's advocate here is what happens in a series, say, against, you know, East Finals against Boston, where they're sticking a bunch of long-armed defenders on him that could be bothering him all game long, whereas Philly, that's one thing Philly's missing, where we're talking about Tobias Harris. And, like, he is not that long-armed defender. Ubre is a solid defender, but not a lockdown guy. And Nick Batum is a good defender as well. he's not elite. And I think that's the counter argument here that doing this against Philly, I do think Brunson is a higher ranked playoff player than a regular season player, though, and he should have been ranked higher in the regular season, and he continues to prove that over and over.

But I do think that's the only counter argument that people can really have at this point, because this guy's done it for years. Because he's going to keep smoking in the Indiana series. Oh, my God. He might average 40, right? And so we're talking about the East Finals against the team that's been together and has great continuity. And as you mentioned, long athletic, all NBA level talent and Drew Holiday to go along with that. Right. Not only to be able to.

Derek White. Yeah. Derek White, too. I mean, like Boston has everything you could ask for against a Jalen Bruns. So if he cooked against them, debate over. All I'm saying is, if he's not, if he shouldn't be ranked. extremely highly amongst the best player on a team you know superstar rankings

then what production would warrant it because this is if Steph Curry did this would be going bonkers and I told you this this is when we first had this discussion you'll remember for those that are big mismatch listeners you'll recall me bringing this up and I said it's

the craziest thing I've ever witnessed in my time watching sports that everybody gets wildly and massively overrated playing in New York. And yet this guy has not been. He hasn't been massively. He has been, if anything, we're having a discussion about underrated in terms of what he brings to the table. Like somehow, like even though we watched him towards Utah a couple years ago when he was without Luca. in Dallas, you know, there's a whole nation of people that are watching this series against

Philadelphia that are going, oh my God, this guy is amazing, you know? All right. So with that in mind, Chris, okay, of all the teams still standing. So everybody that's advanced already and then the clippers and the Mavs and the calves and the calves and the magic. So of every team still standing, where would you pick Brunson when you're lining them lining them all up against the wall. Where does Brunson get picked?

I think Yokic definitely goes first. Luca goes second. Luca goes second. And then after that, you have Anthony Edwards, Shegildas Alexander, Jason Tatum, Healthy Kauai Leonard, Jalen Brunson, Kyrie, like, who else is even

in that same discussion? No, he's in the... He's right there. Well, no, nobody from the Cavaliers and the Magic series. Nobody, exactly. So nobody from... You take him ahead of Mitchell.

I think Mitchell's on that next group, but not. And probably because he's a little more veteran savvy than some of those other guys. You know, they're going to have to prove it as well, right? Where, you know, Edward's going to have to deliver on this next stage and Gilgis Alexander is going to have to deliver on this next stage. I would say the only 100 percenters are, because I think that there's a lot of people out there that don't have, undeniable trust in Tatum, right? So I think once you get past Yokic and Luca, you can debate with this guy. You could take him third.

I think it would not be insane. Anthony Edwards has made a really strong case to be that third pick because he's not just an offensive, you know, juggernaut right now in the postseason. He's also a really good defensive player. So I think that's where Ant you could argue him with defense. Would Tatum that be the argument as well? He's a great defensive player on top of offering, you know, different traits on offense. I think I'd take Brunson ahead of Tatum, though, because scoring is just so incredibly value in those endgame situations.

And Brunson, even when he was in Dallas in those games minus Luca has proven he can be elite in those situations. Well, Kevin, here's the other thing. He does this, I thought it would show up in the playoffs. and especially maybe even a series against Philly, the whole not having Randall as just another offensive outlet. There is not another, I count on you, offensive outlet for him. No. It is him and then just as an offensive player,

who is the second player you're taking off the Knicks? O.G. I mean, it's probably Dante DeVincenzo because of the shooting. Okay, and he just had his first good game of the series. Yeah. I know. That's a tough question. That's a tough question.

So that's what he's up with. That's what he's got going. He's dug high, right? Just in offense. Like, we're not playing defense. Just I get this player as an offensive player. Yeah. It's probably, I mean, it's got to be OG or Devincenton has to be one of those two.

I think Hartenstein's, Hartonstein's finisher. Heart is scrappy, you know, connective piece, but not creator necessarily. I think it's, geez, that says a lot. That puts it in a great perspective. I know he's a bona fide gamer,

but how do you think with the game on the line everybody felt about Brunton taking the hard dribble left, Ubrae chasing, Batum chasing, throw it back up to Josh Hart at the top of the key? So cool. And that's a, I mean, it's like that's what happened.

When the guy got doubled, that's who he's throwing it to. It's like Kobe passing the ball to Ron Arte's in the finals. It is exactly like that. Kobe passed me the ball. Very reminiscent. Kobe passing to me. Very reminiscent. Ron Artest also Foxhole guy, right?

Yeah. For sure. You are not counting on him to hit the game winning three for you. You are, you are counting him to get the game, Game winning rebound. And yet game one, like, he hits some bangers as well. Oh, I know. Well, and a huge, a huge redemption after missing the free throw.

Oh, so cool. That could have given him a four-point lead. You know, it's, you know, Mitchell Robinson kind of got him off the hook with the goofy plays down the stretch. But Hart makes that free throw. They're up four, you know. Yeah. So you know he was kicking himself over that ever since. got his chance at redemption and made the most of it.

He made a really good play there, too, because you'll notice after Brunson passed him the ball, Josh Hart kind of pump fake to the right to DiVincenzo, and that caused Tyrese Maxi, who was kind of splitting between them to shade towards Devencenzzo because he's the better shooter, but then Hart, that little pump fake opened them up for the wide open three. There is no contest from Kelly Ubre, who, and there's impossible for him when he was trailing Brunson so tight. So like even in that moment, like you mentioned how heart grabs the big rebounds at the end of the games. He'll take the charge

and all that. Even in that moment, that basketball IQ that sense did pop up with that little pump fake, the hard pump fake to open up the shot for him. Like that's just the IQ is elite. And I just thought that was a really cool little moment in that play. And also, and this is going to sound wild

because he did not have like the biggest game in the world, but everything about the last like five, six minutes of that game is why there is massive, massive, massive reason for hope if you are a Philly fan, not something you want to hear today. But Maxie is a superstar. I know. That's the silver lining for the Sixers of the season and of the series. Maxie, he's got it.

He has it. When you're, when he's sitting on like two points and then five points, it just made no difference, right? Some guys just like, ah, it ain't my night. This dude was doing everything he could to win that game. What was that like leaning, layup, contested, contorted body. It was nuts. And it was all on Kim to get it done, right?

Like, I mean, he's going to be the one that makes it happen because that is the thing with Joel is like, he gasses out, man. He gassed out. He gassed out. He gassed out on both ends, you know. Devin Chanzo blow him he fell down on one of the layup attempts

then the next possession Devinchenzo just blows right by him and it's like golly's not mobile You know what Embed needs Embed has his MVP and this year obviously he could have won another but then he got hurt he needs to have his Yokocha off season

where he gets into excellent shape, excellent conditioning so that even if he's you know putting up 20, 25 shots he feels like he has energy at the end of the games. Well, and if they get an awesome wing score, right? He has had, he's got a dog in Maxi now. And obviously he went through that phase where it's like,

even if he does get tired, the perimeter guys are usually the ones getting it done down the stretch, right? Yokic is a very special circumstance, but you're still, right? Even with Yokic though, sometimes it is Murray. Of course it is. Of course it's still Murray. And so somebody that's already got the ball in their hands rather than having to receive the ball, right? And had to count on Ben Simmons, blah, had to count on James Harden, blah.

Maxie is the guy you can count on. Jimmy Butler was the closest he came. That's exactly the kind of guy they need, right? That's what he's best. Just a wing dynamic can create my own shot, perfect outlet for Maxi. And you would imagine they've set themselves up for this off season. 60 million in cap space. They have the opportunity.

They've set their self up. If you're Paul George, you've got to be thinking about it. Of course you do. Right? Yeah, because also you can fade into the, this isn't all going to be on me. Portion of your career. It genuinely is a perfect situation for Paul George.

Paul George and the Clippers, it's a good situation, but not the ideal situation from a basketball standpoint. Because, like you said, you are that third guy, but sometimes you will be the number one guy. Sure. You'll be the number one guy in the nights that makes sense that you're the number one guy. And I think with George,

I just can't fathom what it would be like going from Tobias Harris to Paul George. Oh, come on. You could have a bucket of diarrhea and it would be an upgrade. He's awful. Zero!

Zero! What a fitting ending. to the Tobias era Zero Harris era in Philadelphia What a fitting ending Oh my God Goosegg perfect

In 29 minutes O for 2 The spacer The floor spacer I guess Imagine going from that to Paul George Oh my God Oh no I mean let's just say

There's a lot of guys you could go to That could get you more than zero There are a lot of guys Hey you know I know I watched 35 guys played for the Memphis Grizzlies this year. I don't know if any, I don't think one of them

played 29 minutes and scored zero. I never saw it. In fact, there are guys you've literally never heard of that scored 12 and we'll never hear from again. Like, there were guys playing in Memphis that were getting autographs from the opposing team and like trying to do jersey swaps.

and those guys were getting you more than zero. And so, yeah, that they'll have, in fact, Philly, you obviously are not going to get to have a parade, but you might want to have a parade that his contracts, at least you're done with him, right? At least you can move on from Tobias Harris. That's worth celebration itself because he was a dud. But look, they've got a chance at Real Hope, obviously.

and I think that I do think Maxie's massive game in game five and then obviously showing that will to win in six and how great he is I think that completely pacifies

MBEed being like man I'm trying to get the hell out of here enough is enough right I'm not I'm not going to the East finals again I've tried I've tried We brought in different cast of characters. I think Maxie keeps Embed from being discontent.

And then obviously whatever they're going to do in this offseason. It's a critical offseason for Mori. It's probably even bigger than any Houston offseason. For sure. The biggest offseason of his GM and career, when you have this MVP and Juel Embed and Tyrese Maxie, who could next year be an all-N-BBA guy. Absolutely.

I think you could have made an argument from Maxie, is 13. He was on my list as a guy. If they would not have cratered without MB. Yeah, there's a chance. He would have been. Really, there is. Like, they could have two all-NBA players. If you can find a third or a borderline guy to add to this mix, and, you know, I think there, I think the Sixers rotation has a lot of the pieces you want. Like, I think Batum and campaign, even as like a spark plug.

I think the theory of Buddy healed, we saw the positive side tonight with what he could be. And we saw, like, obviously dreadful first three games for him. Lowry makes sense as a rotation guy. But finding the upgrade over Tobias Harris, that alone would make a dramatic difference. And they also do need to find a better backup big than Paul Reed or Mo Baba, who didn't get a chance over Paul Reed. But, like, that's the two priorities. So that both things alleviate pressure off of him beat.

And the one thing that I threw the name at you earlier in the week, but I want to throw it at you again. To me, Nick Claxton is a name that I'm thinking about because adding a second big next to him being who can play with him or without him, I'm just fascinated by what the idea of that could look like for Philadelphia because one of the positives with Ben Simmons was defense, adding more rim protection, adding more size on the perimeter. The difference between Claxton and Simmons is the fact that Claxton doesn't hog the ball on offense. And then on defense, he is a far better rim protector, a far better rebounder. I just think Philly needs to look at the positives from that Embed Simmons era and think about, well, what do we want next to him in that front court? To me, my dream offseason for Philadelphia is Paul George and Nick Claxton. Will you get that?

I mean, it's pipe dream. It is. But Paul George and Nick Claxton, to me, those two guys alone, that would propel them to a significantly higher level where we're talking about a 60s. plus win team during the regular season with the pieces to be flexible and versatile in the playoffs to get through these types of series. The point is this. They have a, they have a very bright future.

And I think that bright future is hint to not only Embed, but, you know, it's a bright future if he's healthy. Maxi's just going to keep getting better. It's a great future if it means healthy. For sure. That's always like the big,

biggest, to be a great team. I agree. Even if they get that other guy, a la Paul George, then if Embed has to miss time, you don't sink. Yep.

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So the team that the Knicks are going to be playing is Indiana, and it is much easier to see how Philly deals with first round lost disappointment than Milwaukee does because it's easy to just say, oh yeah, we didn't have Janice again. But I mean,

since they won that championship, they got ousted in the second round, then they got ousted in the first round, and I'm aware that Janus missed time against Miami, and you can always use that excuse. But here we go again. In Milton the other year, too. That's right.

They've had a lot of injuries. but that is also partly a function of having an older team, right? The oldest. And guys that, you know, look, it's freak what happened with the non-contact injury with Janus, but you lost Damien Lillard for some crucial games as well. He was able to come back tonight, not enough. Look, they got that, when they got that thing to seven in the fourth quarter, I, uh, or maybe late third, I think it was a fourth and maybe early in the fourth.

I was like, okay. Like they kind of got a run going and, uh, it looked like, you know, there's some veteran guys that are going to scratch a claw and he still, he was getting rest for M.B. or for, uh, Lillard. And then T.J. McConnell happened. T.J. McConnell hit a shot. Then he hit a, then Nemhart hit some free throws. than T.J. McConnell 3, T.J. McConnell 3. It was 85 to 78.

And within a blink. 105 third quarter, I just found it on the box score. 105. Hey, how about this? Within a blink, it went from 8578 to 9678. Yeah, wow. And that was the beginning of the fourth at that point when it was 9678. It ended the game. Yeah, yeah. Those first couple of minutes of the fourth quarter where McConnell,

McConnell had like 11 or something within a few minutes span. No answer for T.J. McConnell was Barry and threes is getting in the lane. And he was all fired up. That crowd was on fire. And then again, they got the hometown bump from some performances from guys that you wouldn't necessarily expect. like we were talking about with Buddy Heald giving it for Philadelphia. Obie Toppin. Is this like the most significant OB Topping game ever?

Easily, right? It's easily the most significant OB Topping game ever. I mean, to do it in a playoff game? And they needed him too because Miles was a dud after his amazing game. Yeah, and Obi Topping tonight, 21 points off the bench. Unbelievable. Definitely, without a doubt, his most impressive game. and, you know, filling minutes for Siakum as well, who was good again tonight.

Like Siakum had a couple, you know, average games after some stellar games earlier in the series. But like these, these Pacers, they are a fun team without a doubt. You're talking about future upside. You clearly see what they can become in the future, especially if Halliburg can tap into the early season version of himself again next season. But do you feel like they actually have a chance to beat the Knicks, though? Do you think that they have enough to get through New York? No. No.

It's a different level. I mean, you were watching both series. I agree. That next thing, that next thing was a different level. I agree. It's a different level of basketball versus this depleted Bucks team and this young Pacers team. I think for Indiana, as a Pacer span, the fact, even though the books have been missing their best player and missing Dame for a game and Dane was limited in other games, you still feel good about actually getting through the free consent. series and seeing some of your individual guys perform, like you said, Obie Toppin,

the cohesion between Seacum and Halliburton in the series, Turner having a massive performance as well and other good performances, too. There's a lot of things to feel good about for now and into the future, but the Knicks, like, that's going to be. It's a different deal. The Knicks are on a different level as a team. And it's nice to have Miles Turner. You ain't big enough for that.

You're not big enough when there's five guys. They're flying at every friggin' miss, including the guy that shot the ball. You know, there was one, I mean, like where OG like pulled up from, he pulled, like, he got to that little dead spot, you know, Mbid was in drop, and O.G. pulled up from the elbow. He shot it. It went in, but if it would have missed, O.G. and Ninobe would have gotten the rebound. He was literally at the rim when the damn thing went in the basket.

And I was like, this is what you deal with. It's like meat to the lions every time the ball comes off the rim. And I don't think that that level of physicality can be matched by the Pacers. I mean, no disrespect. That Buck's team without Janus would be lucky to win 35 games. Oh, I think they'd be lucky to win 25. Yeah, I mean, that's, well, they went 25. Come on.

But 30. I'm also factoring in like injured Dane too. Maybe so. But yeah, they, that team as was constituted without Janus, had no chance. And they actually made it,

they took it to six. They took it to six without Janus. So I just think the Knicks thing is a different level. I do. But great for Indiana. I don't want to take anything away from them. Obviously, look, getting to the second round,

is a great deal for them. You certainly, with the way that season played out with Halliburton becoming a much less a version of himself as the season went on, you know, you just got to stay in the mix and hopefully you get the right draw. And as the sixth seed, they were able to pull the bucks without Janus. And then, you know, a Lillard that got hurt. And you don't have to apologize for moving. on if we're just talking about

the next series though in fact I'm going to go check on Fandul I'm going to bet you I'm going to bet you that the Knicks are bigger favorites against the Pacers than Denver is against Minnesota we bet I'm going to check this

because they'll probably have the line posted already Pacers Knicks I got it pulled out Knicks minus 265 Pacers plus 210 and then in the West The Nuggets minus 205, Wolf's plus 164. So they're the bigger favorite.

They are. Yep. The Knicks are a bigger favorite. I mean, I think that's fair. I do. Minnesota is looking for real, man. Anthony Edwards has taken a real leap. That defense looks,

apps, it just looks unstoppable. As a collective unit, their ability to play different schemes and with different lineups, they look outstanding. I got some stuff on that. I got some stuff on that. We'll save it because let's get to the series. You don't want to get into Minnesota now?

Just the series that haven't ended first. Okay, okay. Clips, Mabs. I'm just, I just want Rudy O'Ber stats. I'm just enough. Feed me. I don't have any of those. I don't have any of his generation.

I don't have any of their stats. Okay. You'd be amazed. I'll have to pick some up. Hey, I got some James Hardin ones for you. I was at this game. What a disaster. What a disaster?

Three points. I mean, it was only the worst Clippers postseason loss in history. Bones Highland had more points in seven minutes than Russell Westbrook and James Harden did in their entire game. You had to throw Westbrook in there, didn't you? You had to. Why wouldn't I? He was horrific in the game. He was horrible.

He was a complete and utter detriment. Nobody's expecting anything from him. There was a point in the game where Russell Westbrook had 11 shots in like 14 minutes. That was more shots than James Harden and Paul George both had in like 30 minutes total at the time. Well, that's because he's the only non-shrinking violet they have. And that's exactly what it is. There's some shrinking violets on his team. And when that happens, he feels like, I got to step up and do something.

I'm the one who's going to bring it, except that only hurts you more. Of course it does. And you have shrinking violets. And you got Russell Westbrook throwing. up junk at the rim. Then you lose by 30. Perfect formula. The Mabs now have an 83% chance of winning the series.

Luca had 35, 10, and 7. He's clearly, you know, not 100%. He sprained his knee. He's playing through it. The shooting percentages have not been very good. 39% from the field, 27% from 3, yet he's still very productive. And you should have gone to the locker room after the game and walked straight up to Maxie Kleba and said, you're welcome.

You're welcome, Maxie. Wow. If listeners of this podcast, no, after game one, I won on this long thing with some stats about Kleba and how his shot is falling off a clip. Yeah, Jason kid trusted, but is it good for him? Because is he shooting different? Yo, I will say this. Anybody that watches, he shoots freaking lasers at the rim. Oh, my God.

shot is so flat. No, Mark. You should see it in person. Like the media seats are kind of like baseline, right? Behind the back, behind the net. And like you can just see it's a flat shot. Oh yeah.

And it goes in. Some outs going in. Yeah, he went 0 for three in the first game. And then since then two for three, one for one, one for one, five for seven came five. Including four for six in the first half when they really need. It was still a good game in the first half until that last spurt at the end by the Mavs. And then obviously the second half was completely out of control. Stomp them out.

Well, you know, and it was also kind of impressive that they were even in it because the three giveeth and the three taketh away. We saw them shooting absolute fireballs in game four. and then they missed their first 14 threes in game five in this game. And it's like, I think they've hit like 18 threes in the games they've won. Like you can pretty well look. I know that Greg Popovich bemoaned the fact years ago that, you know, basketball has just become, you could give me the box score, you can show me the three point percentage and I can, you know,

and the amount they made and I'll tell you who won the game kind of stuff. But it's not that first. far off with the clippers, right? Like, I mean, and if they're not making them, not only, it just, it felt like it took away all their aggression then, you know, those first couple, you know, when Paul George is seeing that ball go through the hoop now, all of a sudden, he's like super aggressive and feeling like I can do anything. And Hardin came out in four and hit a couple of them threes, and it's like, all right,

it's go time. I'm James Harden, former MVP, one of the best players in the world. And those first couple don't go in. And he just deferred the rest of the game. Just decided, all right, I'm not. And obviously, he has had many of those in the past, but two for 12 and four turnovers when they needed him the most. Like five is as pivotal as it gets.

And both him and George were terrible, terrible. Terrible. He is the strangest player, man. Like he's 33 points on 17 shots in game four, and he looks like his dominant self. Yes. And then he's two for 12 for seven points with more turnovers than made shots. What the heck?

He's done that his whole career, though. It's like, because people will always say like, oh, well, he's had good playoff games and always go look. Like, it's like amazing playoff game, one of the best players in the world. Unexplainable, horrendous game. great game unexplainable

horrendous game it's just bizarre yeah because we both watched it came on here we're effusive in our praise with him on Monday after we had watched

what he did this weekend it was like that was that's exactly why you got him is because if Kauai Leonard's out you still got two stars

that can do star stuff and both of them have that felt watching that that felt like one of those oh, this is why people have always jumped hardened. This is why people have already always jumped Paul George.

People, you. Why? But I had moved into the point where I like semi-trusted them. And then I'm watching that and I'm like, God, of course they folded. I mean, to get your ass kicks like that in a game five is pitiful. I mean, you witnessed it a person. To get run out of your own building? That's crazy.

That's crazy. I don't know. And now it sets up Dallas to move on. And are they, they'll have played, right? I believe before we speak again, when would game one be? Friday night. No, no, no. Game one of the next series.

I'm already looking ahead. Oh, so you think it's over with no matter what? I mean, I'm going to go with the 83%. No, I do not think the clippers are going to beat them twice in a row. Let me check to tell you if it's, if it's confirmed when the series will be. Yeah, when OKC will play their opponent. Game one, no matter what, is Tuesday. Okay.

Okay. Well, you will have the opportunity before then if you want to change your pick on Monday, but you know I'm picking the Mavericks. Okay. Let me just go ahead and say that. And I've told you from the very beginning that you will too, and we will see it. Do you want to see him one more time?

Yeah, I'll make my official pick on Monday. Okay. You want to see him one more time? No, no, no, I don't need to see him one more time. You already know my pick, but I'll make my official pick on Monday. Okay, fair enough. You already know my pick.

All right. What's my pick, Chris? The thunder. The thunder. You're, you're, the thunder. Yeah, my pick is the thunder, but we'll officially make that pick on Monday. Fair enough.

Cavs Magic, that's going to be decided. You know, 104, 103, game five win. Both these teams have been great at home, right? They've won. The home teams won every time. So I'm kind of thinking Orlando will show up, and then we can catch a game seven, that would be cool. I was disappointed, Franz,

and it passed the ball out on that Mobley block. Franz, I know he thought he's had a step on Mobley, but you've got to kick it out. You got to kick it out to Bencaro. He deferred to you. Bencaro deferred to Wagner in the prior game, and in that moment, Ben Carroll was 39 points, 14 of 24. Wagner had Mobley on his ass.

You've got to kick it out. Or try to finish with your left. I know. You're driving to the left. Try to finish it to the left. He goes right and that gave Mowgli. I mean, Mowgli might have blocked it no matter what. Might have, but here's the thing.

And I know Brian Winhorse has talked about this a lot. Obviously, he talks a lot about Cleveland for covering them for so many years. And I know he does radio bits there, but he's talked about one three one, that the best Cavs mode of operation is having a point guard, three guys that could shoot threes, and a big. And when they went on their unbelievable tear in the middle of the season, they kind of were injured into that. And then obviously Jared Allen was their second best player in this series to Donovan Mitchell.

In fact, those are the only two guys that had scored double digits every game. But then by virtue of him being out, it forced them to play Mobley at center. Mobile gets you 14 points, 13 rebounds, two blocks, including a game winning block. and you saw the spacing and you saw the ball movement and that's with frigging Marcus Morris who was brought in on a 10 day, right, at one point. So it's like, will they do the right thing? Will J.B. Bickerstaff do the right thing

if he has his full complement of players? He's never gotten away from Moby Allen even though it's what's best. is having one of them. And yet, you wonder, are they, they have been forced into being good sometimes. And that's just the way it's going to be.

I mean, I get it. That's a roster construction thing. It's not an easy thing to sit one of them or stagger them, right? When they're two of your, two of your best players that would be better off in different scenarios than the one that they're in. because Alan is obviously anchor of a defense and has been great all year. But Mowgli's going to, his destiny is to be a center.

He's never going to be able to shoot well enough and be that spacing guy to be a, he's just going to, you're not going to be a non-shooting for your career. And he can guard the rim too. And you saw him score right around the rim, two crucial ones, those dunked at the end of the game. And it's like, man, Mowbly. is, you know, we've all kind of developed this opinion of, hey, Moby hasn't progressed like we all wanted him to. And then you saw him like that. You're like, okay, he could progress exactly how you want him to.

You just got to have him play center and be the lone big out there. And so it feels like there's going to need some strategy there. They finally broke 100 and they did it when they didn't have the two bigs. on the backs of Marcus Morris. Right. Because it's a stretch, though. You know, we talked about, like, getting relief. Who's the guy you can kick out to and can make a wide open shot?

And we said they had gotten George Nying and Max Trues. And through the first, you know, four games of that series, they had hit four threes combined, combined. That's supposed to be your relief, your spacing. Mm-hmm. Who knew? Marcus Morris. Credit to Bicker staff, pulling the plug on Nying, who's a good role player, but like you got a value recency with decisions you make in the postseason.

And maybe at some point you do turn back to Nying. After you play every game this regular season, every game, Nying played all 82. But then you still get the guts to pull him and put in Marcus Morris, who was awesome in that last game. He also, but Morris is going to fight, try to rebound, and he has, and he has, and he has, and he has size. You couldn't, in the absence of Allen, you couldn't roll Nyang out there. It was the right move. Orlando's huge.

They're huge. You can't just have Mowgli by himself. Like, you got to at least have somebody else trying to bang down there with him. And so the Morris thing, uh, yeah, no, I guess. give him credit for doing it, but again, they kind of fell into it. Do we ever see Morris if Allen doesn't get hurt? No. I mean, we didn't see Morris for, you know, six, seven minutes.

Not like that. Not 25 plus, no. Right. Not like that. I hope Orlando wins the next game and we get a game seven. I hope so, too. I think that series deserves a game seven. I swear to God, that series has been like buried.

Yeah. buried in coverage too. Like, you know how they, like, I don't know if you ever go to NBA.com, but they do a really good job, like after the series. I'll read through like the, they do five takeaways from blank. Every time there's like one of those games

because they always have like cool little stats in there or maybe something I didn't notice. I type it in and try to like find, they don't even have anybody doing five takeaways from Magic Cavs game. Wow. Wow, I didn't realize that. Yeah, you could go.

and you can find anybody else's. And I find all these cool little stats and like what's happening and some maybe line up stuff or whatever. So like Michael Wright will write some of them and Ashburner writes some of them and Schumann will write some of them. And they're super interesting. But I've never seen a five takeaways from Kevin's magic. I look every time. And I'm like, all right, let me see what I've missed. I can't find it.

I swear to God, if it exists, if someone is writing that, they refuse to put it. on the front page or even on the sidebar. It's never there. It's like the games aren't even happening. And that's the league site. It's bizarre. I guess they just don't have anybody there, so they're not doing it, right?

They're not just having somebody write it up from TV. But I hope they get a game seven, and they get like a stage, and we can all watch them. Because I think it'd be cool for Paolo to be on that stage. Be cool to see Mitchell in a game seven. Like, If people have not paid attention to that series, at least they would for that.

We talked about OKC is waiting. We're going to get to talk about that on Monday, obviously. Minnesota, Denver, we are going to be recording after game two. Oh, baby. So game one. Monday night. I don't even realize that's Monday night. Game one is on Saturday.

Game two is on Monday. Let's go. That's great. I'm excited. Okay. First thing, since we need to talk about this before it starts, Denver's longest series in these last two years has been, six games. We know Phoenix

won two, right? They beat Minnesota last year. They won one. Phoenix won two. Lakers won zero. Heat one. They were 16 and four. So that's right. Yeah. Phoenix got two and Minnesota

and the heat got one. And that's been it. So they've had one series go to six games. Does this series become the longest Denver has played in the last two years. I'll say this one goes seven. You think it goes seven? It becomes their longest.

And home court advantage becomes a massive deal then. 100% for sure. I mean, Minnesota last year versus Minnesota this year, complete and utter different level. I mean, if you just look individually at the players, Rudy Gobert is so much better and so much healthier than he was last year. Carl Anthony Towns is so much better acclimated to this system, the roles and what's demanded of him as the four in this offense.

Edwards is better in every single way, better as a score, better as a passer. DeKale Alexander Walker is even better defensively than he was last year. I mean, up and down this roster from an individual standpoint, their depth is better, everything's better. and Denver, I do think that they have the upside to be better than last year with some of their younger guys, with what, you know, Peyton Watson could be filling in for Bruce Brown, filling in for Jeff Green and all that.

But right now he's not. And most of all, though, right now, Jamal Mari is not. I know he had two game winners in the series against the Lakers, and he was really good in that last game. but Murray for the most part still has been less consistent, less efficient as we've seen from him in past postseason. And I think that is something to monitor here early in the series against Minnesota, especially when he's going to be defended by Jada McDaniels or Nikale Alexander Walker or Anthony Edwards. Like at worst, it's going to be ants.

And he's really good himself. So it's going to be a much stiffer challenge for Murray in this series than it was against the Lakers. And I think that's the key to watch for is what? Murray looked like health-wise against these Minnesota defenders. Okay. I'm going to give you a couple others. This matchup is great. Obviously, this is a tremendous series.

The Tim Conley Ball, baby. That's amazing. Okay. You talked up Minnesota a lot. I will tell you, Yokic absolutely murders them. They, and your boy, Gobert. They played on a- everybody.

Everybody. Not like 41, 11, and 7 when they played on April 10th. and he averaged 33 and 12 against him, 33 and 12 this season. Porter Jr., while you talked to Murray and say like, hey, you know, he could be, we'll see if it can sustain. Porter Jr. was unbelievable in that Laker series. He averaged 23 points a game, 49% from three as the outlet for those guys, right, to give them some relief.

And the other thing is Minnesota absolutely demolished Phoenix on the board. The best defensive rebounding team against the wolves all year was the Nuggets. It's the one thing they took care of. And so can that size be a big problem against the Nuggets? Because you need extra possessions. And it was something obviously Phoenix had literally. nothing to turn to, nothing they could do. You're just going to get your ass beat on the backboard, and that's the end of that.

But Phoenix, if you want to call a regular season of playoffs, though, Chris, Phoenix was the best offense against Minnesota during the regular season. That's right. They might not mean anything. It might not mean anything at all. The regular season, it was two and two. Denver and Minnesota against each one. They did each win two games.

Yep. It may mean nothing. This is a great, man. something. I think it's going to be sensational. And the other thing is, it's still a wait and see on Edwards. Edwards just averaged 31, 8, and 6

on 51% shooting. It stands to reason that Denver will have a much greater defensive plan than Phoenix. Yeah. And better personnel and better team defense to be able to deal with it. And so

then who becomes the other guy? Now, on the other side, Minnesota's bench I mean could wallop them Kyle Anderson Nahl and Nas Reid It's like who are you counting on Is it Reggie Jackson

Is it Christian Brown? Is it Peyton Watson? Who are they getting? Because those minutes like When you're talking about a matchup That's this razor thin Close Those four or five minutes

Could decide the games right where you're having to sit some guys but they've got others that are coming in the game and are beating you down because it might just be a Nasreid night it might be one of those nights Alexander Walker gets you 15 and so they got some stepping up that they're going to need in Denver of guys that we are not sure are going to step up well I'll tell you what though when it comes to that rotation we saw what Michael Malone did and the elimination game against the Lakers. Aaron Gordon, 46 minutes.

MPJ, 46 minutes. Yokic, 41 minutes. Murray, 41 minutes. KCP, 33. He missed some time during the game. Reggie Jackson, 18 minutes. And then the last three guys, Brown, 6, Watson 5, Holiday 4. He pretty much went to a six-man rotation, plus a couple other guys sprinkled in.

But that's what you do in a game set. That's what you do. Yeah, like a elimination game. You know, not a game seven quite yet for that one. Game six, though. Game one, he'll play those guys and see how it goes. I would think he'll play it more, but at the same time, Malone does go with a short rotation sometimes.

Well, the other thing is can they completely neutralize Gordon with Gobert? Because Gobert is in front of the rim and everything Gordon's doing. Like Gordon's not going to, nobody's going to care if he wants to stand out at the three point line. Go ahead. So it might actually be you get more minutes with Gobert actually guarding the Gordon spot and just saying, dude, you don't get to do any of that dunker spot stuff. I'm not rotating. Yeah.

I'm not rotating. That dunker spot stuff, done. Now what? Outside of transition, you're neutralized. Go ahead. Go out there and shoot some jumpers if you want. But you're not getting dunks at the rim, bro. We're not rotating like that.

And it might actually work where you could pull that off because your point of attack defenders are so good. That's where it all gets thrown into motion is when you got guys that can't fight over screens or you guys that can't stay in front of defenders. Now it's a shuffle. Now everybody's moving every different, every which way. And so it'll be interesting to see how they decide to do this. It's going to be a lot of strategy in this. And God, do we know about Finch? Is he going to be able to do it?

Sounds like he'll be able to be courtside. Jeez. That was horrible. Not being able to stand up and run up and down the sidelines. I know. There was video of him, like, moving, like, very gingerly at practice. I wonder if they could give him one of those, like, you remember when that coached at, oh, where was it at the time?

Where was he coached? Where was Ron Hunter? You remember when Ron Hunter flew? off that scooter. Georgia, Georgia State. Yeah, yeah, yeah, when R.J. Hunter hit that three. Yeah, so cool. And Ron Hunter flew off it.

Maybe you could get one of those little, like, scooter things like Ron Hunter had, right? Where your legs is up. You see Mike Conley won teammate of the year. And Fitch said he called him to contest the boat. By the way, I did see that, which is cool. Mike Connolly should win that every year that ever exists. What the hell was the Hustle Award? I saw that headline during the game.

And it was like, Alex Caruso won the Hustle Award. I was like, I'm not going to argue it, but I never even heard of that. Yeah, I'm not sure who votes for that. Coaches, I think, because media doesn't know that one. I'm not sure. We didn't even talk about it. We didn't even place our vote for the Hustle Award. No, no Hustle Award votes here.

Oh, you know what? You know what? I heard. I didn't really hear. I'm just going to make up a fake story. I heard McConnell was super pissed about that, and that's why he performed the way he did tonight. Yeah.

Makes sense. Totally makes sense. He said, I got frigging robbed by that other white guy. Let Caruso cook like this. Yeah, I just buried the bucks by myself. Hustle that. Yeah. Try to make it the playoffs, buddy.

Yeah. DJ Bacado, hero of the night, for sure. I don't know. I think it would have been crazy. You probably could have got pretty long odds that we would do this podcast talking about two elimination games and then one talking about how amazing T.J. McConnell was and then the next Brunson could have been expected,

but the combo of McConnell Brunson probably not. I'm trying to find who and how the process happens for the hustle award. I'm not finding anything in the NBA's email that they send out to voters and media people, but I'm not seeing anything on the website either. It just says, has been named the winner, but I'm not seeing who voted it, who chose.

It was actually given out by Alex Caruso.com. Presenting sponsor. The House Award, presented by alicecaruso.com. Alexcaruso.com. Well, hopefully we get a game seven in Orlando, Cleveland. We will see how these other series round up.

And then by the next time we talk, we'll be talking about game two of Denver, Minnesota, getting ready for the other Western Conference semifinals. And then obviously talk about anything that has gone on in the east since we last spoke. But this is about to get really fun. obviously going to have less series, but hopefully we'll get some even more competitive ones in this next round. Thank you to our executive producer Jesse Lopez, as always. And Kevin, I'll talk to you Monday night. I can't wait, man.

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