The Mismatch - Kyrie Irving, Ben Simmons, and Zion Williamson Developments, Plus Eight People to Keep an Eye on for the Upcoming Season

Episode Date: October 12, 2021

Verno and KOC delve into the developments of Kyrie Irving’s situation in Brooklyn, with the Nets releasing a statement saying he will not be practicing or playing games until he can be a full-time member of the team (0:52). They also discuss Ben Simmons’s return to the city of Philadelphia (11:30) and the news that Zion Williamson has yet to begin running again after getting foot surgery (28:33). Then they talk about eight people to keep an eye on this season, including Klay Thompson, Deandre Ayton, Jason Kidd, Russell Westbrook, and more (35:31). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Associate Producer: Sasha Ashall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Kevin O'Connor, co-host of The Mismatch. I wanted to tell you today about one of my favorite shows on our podcast network, the Ringer Fantasy Football Show, our fantasy football experts, Danny High Fids, Danny Kelly, and Craig Horlebeck guide you through each fantasy football season. And last week, they covered week five, including some must-ad players, shark tank prop bets, and awards. I love this show, not just because of their information and their takes. It's their chemistry. Like, these guys have fun.

They have a good time. They have great conversation. and I always learn something from it. You can find the Ringer fantasy football show every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. Welcome to The Mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon. Join the means he does every Tuesday from the Ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor,

a.k. Kevin O'Brien, O'Conflict, Kevin O'Candyland, Kevin O'Crient, Kevin O'O'Brien, Kevin O'Hourne. Verdo! No, no Obama there? No. No Obama? Come on. No Obama today. No Obama today.

even though he has been the, a star of the preseason, the Mobamba Revenge tour is on. Our friends, Chris. Come on. We have a budget. Get an old Killian in there, but not an old Baba. Well, I'm done. I'm out of here. These are the choices we make.

I saw Killian Hayes last night. And it was memorable. It was memorable. I saw the falls three in a minute. in in 30 seconds or something like that. Tough scene. Tough scene. I was busy writing an article last night coming out later this week.

I'm looking forward to it. Did not watch. I didn't see any preseason last night to be honest with you, Chris. Well, I can't. Oh, well, you really missed a hell of a performance out of Hayes. But MoBamba is a massive star and it is the revenge tour that has begun. Watch every minute of that. While those have been stories throughout this preseason,

They are overwhelmed by the stars of the league. And we have three major stories. In fact, right before we're about to record this morning, the Nets announced that Kyrie Irving is not going to be able to participate in practice or playing games. Sean Marks put out a statement, the general manager of the Nets, given the evolving nature of the situation and after thorough deliberation, we've decided Kyrie Irving will not play or practice with the team until he's eligible to be a full participant.

Kyrie has made a personal choice, and we respect his individual right to choose. Currently, the choice restricts his ability to be a full-time member of the team, and we will not permit any member of our team to participate with part-time availability. And it goes on through there, and it talks about sacrifice,

and it talks about them wanting to win a championship. But while there have been a lot of statements from the Nets that have not been, you know, they hadn't been drawing a line in the sand on this. It's like, yeah, we'll see. We know, he'll play when he plays. You know, Steve Nash the other day,

I've come to terms with the fact that he's not going to be available for every game. This is absolutely a line in the sand. And do you think that this is, do you think that they are putting pressure on Ky Reid now? And they have just decided, okay. you're not going to be a part of this team if you're going to do it part time. So now this will encourage him to go get the shot. Or do you think that this is a pressure in that, hey, we're drawing the line now,

go get it. And if he just sticks to his guns and he says, I'm not doing it, that they really will go through with him not being a part of the team at all. I mean, there's things that could change here. Like you said, he could get vaccinated. New York State could change the rules and regulations on, you know, who's allowed to do what, where, and when. Obviously, this past week, they did say it would be okay if he practiced but still couldn't play games at the arena. So maybe at some point, the Nets are banking on New York changing that rule and he'll be allowed to play as an unvaccinated player at home game.

So things could change by his own choices or by what the state decides to do. So I think the Nets are banking on that. When I was in San Diego, we talked about the story I wrote last week. I asked Sean Marks, like, if he's missing games, isn't that an opportunity for some of the young guys to play to get, you know, to get Cam Thomas minutes, to play with different lineups, different stuff to do? And he's like, yeah, that's certainly something on our mind, you know, to take advantage of whatever ends up happening here. because the Mets were undecided when they were in training camp. And very clearly now, they've decided they want consistency early in the season, if not throughout the entire season because Kyrie may never get vaccinated or get a vaccination

card or New York may change the rules to make it even tougher for and to play and practice. That's always possible too. So we don't know how this is going to change like we haven't known a thing about this pandemic since it really hit us last March and the United States. So I don't know. I don't know how things are going to develop here, but all I do know here is the Nets have chosen consistency early in the season.

And maybe this will pressure Kyrie Irving to get a card. Yeah, you know, it's kind of like when Kyrie last year, you remember he was like, I'm not doing the media stuff. And then all of a sudden you're going to lose some money and you're going to get fired for it. And next thing you know, you're doing the media stuff, right?

Like they allowed this to play out the way it has. And I think they didn't really have a, choice in the matter. You can't have a part-time player that's a massive part of your team. I agree. And then let it- It's the right move, Chris. I'm with it. Yeah, because then you let it carry out. And then what? Like, this team has championship hopes, right? Like, you can't have somebody that's a high usage player playing every once in a while, not going on road trips with or going on road trips with the team, but then not being at those games in the home arena, playing differently for half the games, then you do the other half of the games.

And like I said, with Championship Dreams, let's say, who knows, maybe all the mandates get lifted, hopefully they do by the time we get to the spring. But let's just say they don't. What are you? You're playing in, you're playing in road playoff games? Yeah. You're playing in the, every other finals game possibly? Like, I mean, you know, I'm all for.

Kyrie Irving can do whatever he wants to do. But when your job is in a team sport, then you have to deal with, like, if you want to say consequences to your actions, like you're not going to get the money that you thought you were going to get. And that is a boatload of money in his case. And you're also not going to be able to just pop in, pop out whenever you want to, right? Like, I think the Nets had to do this. It'll be very fascinating to see. My guess would be that he'll get vaccinated to play his basketball, but he is the one guy that I would reserve judgment and say,

I mean, I'm not, I wouldn't put a, I wouldn't put a ton of money on it. I don't know what this guy's going to do. Ultimately, with Kyrie Irving, I agree with you completely, Chris, everything you said there. It's like for the Nets, they're in a situation now where it would be incredibly challenging to, you know, have him in. and out of the lineup for, you know, who knows how long, then it would be just to say, you're out until you're in.

However, however that happens, whether it's what New York decides or Kyrie decides, whatever it might be, it's easy to integrate Kyrie Irving into your starting lineup, knowing the chemistry that he has with Katie and Hardin and the talent that he brings. That's the easy thing to do. So in a way, the Nets are doing the easiest thing in a tough situation here. And throughout this process early in the season, They are still going to resemble a championship contender because they have two MVP candidates and Kevin and James Hardin with the deepest teams in basketball, talented young players. So it's like

for Brooklyn, with or without Kyrie, they're a finals contender. Obviously, you're better with a 50, 40, 90 player in Kyrie, but this team can still be a dominant force. So I mean, to me, this choice was an easy one to make. And however things work out with Kyrie is however they work out. He's a bonus. Also, look, it's an easy choice because it's not like there's four or five guys, you would be making special exceptions for one player on the team. And the only reason you'd be doing it is because of his extreme talent. It's also like it's not happening around the league. You know, you go into a locker room.

Every single guy has done one thing and one guy has decided not to. And you cater to the one guy at possibly the expense of. of the team. And I think that's probably the discussions that they had. You know, what are we doing here? Right. You've got these 14 guys that are going to be in the foxhole with each other for the entire length of the season.

For sure. They're going to be playing in all of these games. They're going to be in that locker room every single night. And we're going to cater to one guy that has made the decision not to be in the same group with these guys. And again, you're allowed to stand up for whatever you want to stand up for, do whatever you want to do. But I think it's incredibly understandable for them to say, come on, this is ridiculous. We can't make a decision.

We can't cater to one player. You know, like I said, it'd be different if there were more guys. It'd be different if it wasn't 98% of the league vaccinated right now. Yeah, it's a super, I mean, like, it's a really high number. And part of me wonders if that's what Brooklyn's banking on here is that. you know, the league is well over, you know, 90%, what are there? You said 98% right now? Yeah, I mean, is that, is, I know C.J. McCollamer or the NBA PA had said 95%. So it's high.

Whatever the exact number is. It goes up every day. Yeah. Cases, you know, hospitalizations and deaths right now are thankfully plummeting. And, you know, I believe 46 of 50 states in in America. So, you know, hopeful, like this seems like COVID goes in like two months way, two month waves, you know, up and down. That seems to be the trend. So hopefully it's just down, down, down, down, with this wave we're having now. So I don't know. Maybe at some point, New York will lift that mandate and Kyrie will be able to rejoin the Nets and play without being vaccinated. That would be my prediction. My prediction is he'll end up getting vaccinated. Yeah, we'll see. We have another big name that my God, have we spent more time talking about Ben Simmons over the

course of the last couple of weeks, months, years, then maybe he is worthy of. It was stale. It just got fun. Yeah. And Ben Simmons shows up in Philadelphia last night. And according to Adrian Wardenowski's report, Elton Brand didn't even know he was there. Yeah. So clearly the communication has been great between the 76ers and Ben Simmons. he's going to show up over the weekend.

You had reports of games in Ph. Ben Simmons. I think they were doing it again last night. And I think it became a reality to Ben Simmons and his agency that they're going to be losing a lot of money, hand over fist, by sitting out. Once push came to shove and you were going to start losing game checks as well as losing part. of, you know, he had this thing where he had big payments split into two. I think it was two eight million dollar payments and they had withheld one of those eight million payments already. And so he wasn't getting that. Of course, they say, hey, we want to get that money. The 76ers say, you're not getting that money. Are you out of your mind? You're not

even around. So he shows back up in Philadelphia and Kevin. Oh, my goodness. Is this amazing? We have this morning, we have, I pulled up the Philadelphia Inquirer because I wanted to know what was going on in Philly. What are they saying about this? Ben Simmons is showing up last night. And the columnist is Marcus Hayes. And this is when you know it's going to be amazing, Kevin, is when you read like the little subheadline. It said, if he had a tail, it would be curled tightly between his legs. I'm like, oh, this is going to be good.

Oh, this is going to be good. Listen to this. It turns out the only thing Ben Simmons is more scared of than shooting is losing money. That is the first line. Oh, this guy kills him. If he had a tail, it would be curled tightly between his legs. Reports say he's back in town, if only for a little while, as his fines exceeded $1 million. One league source hinted at the NBA faced with the dire precedent.

might have gotten involved. Clutch my butt. Simmons, who turned down a dunk in game seven of the Easter conference semifinals, subsequently refused to report to work three months later. He and his agent, LeBron James mouthpiece, Rich Paul, who runs powerful clutch sports,

tried to force the Sixers to trade him and to do so with his lowest worth the lowest it could possibly be. He made Carson Wentz look like a principled hero. Oh, my God. Hey, listen to this one. Rather than face the team he betrayed, and the fan base he estranged,

he told the Sixers they had to trade him. And he didn't care how bad the deal was. He just wanted out. And so it says that part hasn't changed. You'll probably never play another game in the Sixers uniform. He lacks that sort of courage. He lacks that sort of character. However, he's back in Philly, so he won't be fined.

$360,000 a game anymore. This isn't a change of heart. It's a realization that Sixers President Daryl Morey is nobody's punk. His article is unbelievable. That's something. That's something. I mean, I'll tell you why. That last line there is true.

The Sixers and Mori called the Clutch Sports. it's bluff of him, you know, sitting out into the season and losing millions and millions and millions of dollars. It's that as a bluff. And also once those checks stop coming, that's when that realization sets, they're like, ah, maybe I'll play in front of some fans who absolutely hate me right now. Because you know what, Chris? All it might take is a couple of games with 20 points, 13 assist, 10 rebounds, some great defensive plays. And then all of a sudden, Wells Fargo Center, Sixers fans are going crazy. Championship. We're winning in all. Yonah is coming for you. That's you have nothing on us. We're coming. That Sixers fans are going to go crazy. He's not

going to play. Or maybe they're just going to boo him no matter what he does. I think he's not going to play. You think that you think he's just not going to play? Yeah, I think he's there. So he gets his money. So you don't see my fantasy happen? No. of Sixers fans falling back in love with him? Absolutely not. You don't see that happening? Here's the thing. Because even last season, half of Sixers fans wanted him gone.

Half of them love them. Let me split. All right, let me reassess. Hold on, down, because obviously we're doing this on the fly, this conversation. All right, I've reassessed. I give that a zero percent chance of happening, Kevin. Nothing. Zero.

No. How about a large chunk of Sixers fans? Absolutely not. No? No. You think they are just done with him. Done. Even if he comes back and has some great games.

They're chanting F. Ben Simmons. His jerseys are 50% off at stores. They're done. But now it does mention in that particular article that I cited, it says maybe waves of maturity engulf him and he already, and he decides to earn the money he's already been paid. The Sixers gave him 25% of his 2021 salary in July or, 8.25 million. That was the number I referenced earlier, but held the 25% due on October 1st in

escrow as to assess him the fines he deserves. So that's what was taking place here. Instead of him getting that $8.25 million, they put that into escrow and then the fines were just going to come out of that. And so you quote, literally did not get the money from your contract and that money is being held and is just lowering in value every single day that you're not a part of the team that you are not participating in games and to watch $8.5 or $8.25 million with your name next to it get reduced every single day. That's not, that became a reality.

One of the things that is fascinating, though, is in this article, it mentions the NBA getting involved. And I do wonder, you know, I think there's a lot of Clutch tried to push around to get their way, and then they realized they're not going to get their way, and he had to go crawling back to Philadelphia, and that Daryl Morey stood his ground, and he's not going to give him up for some crap deal. And so they had to just figure it out. And next thing you know, Ben Simmons shows up unannounced last night.

I do wonder about the whole NBA getting involved. I think it's possible. You know, we had talked about this a couple of months ago. It's not what you want if you're the NBA. Guys with three and four years left on their contract just saying, I'm not playing for that team anymore. Trade me. You know?

And I'm sure with the NBA, and the 75th anniversary, and they're trying to get everybody excited about this upcoming season, it's got to be intensely annoying for this to be such a massive story all the time. I mean, look, we're going to start off a podcast about the NBA talking about three major stars, two of which, it's self-inflicted, you know. I mean, their controversies are self-inflicted. Kyrie Irving could go and get the shot tomorrow, and that's not a story anymore. Ben Simmons could have showed up at Sixers training camp,

played a good soldier and said, find a trade for me. Let's get on the same page here, right? Because if you're Darrell, you've got to be saying, look, bro, I can't trade you for, my job is to fix the Sixers and to make the Sixers the best team I can. You guys have put me in a position

where I can't get proper return for you. Then I'm not going to be able to get proper return for you with you doing it this way. And so the best move is to come back, be a good soldier, and, you know, maybe we can find a deal. You can be happy. I can be happy. But what I'm not going to do is just move you for whatever because that's what you want, because my loyalty is not to you, the individual player.

My loyalty is to this team. And the deals aren't there right now. Now, because of the playoffs and then the off season, which has driven your stock so abysmally low that I can't find a good deal. 100%, Chris. I mean, it's exactly that on a human level in many ways, you know, a guy wants to go. You understand, you know. Yeah. It happens all the time.

Any job, any job, no matter if you're an NBA player or office worker, whatever it is, people want to go. but ultimately Darry doesn't want to go and if he makes a bad deal he will go in three, four, five years. So will all the people

that work underneath him and so the entire organization will all be out of jobs and their families will be in positions where they don't know what's coming next. So he needs to make

the best decision for the Sixers and ultimately this could end up being the best for Ben Simmons too. Let me tell you I thought about last night because in so many years covering the league we have seen so many different times that when push comes to shove or something like

this happens that owners can get involved and then they just do what they want to do. The player or the agent goes straight to the owner. And I think the Sixers owners of Josh Harris, they deserve some credit in this because they've stood by Daryl. Because in many situations, We just covered a story two weeks ago that was so you would think it's rare, but it's not that rare, where Russell Westbrook heard about the other deal that was going to happen with the Kings, and he went straight to Ted Leoneses and said, yo, get me to L.A. Next thing you know, Tommy Shepard's trading Russell Westbrook to Los Angeles. I saw it here 15 years ago. Powell Gasol, who just retired, went to Michael Heisley, the owner of the Grizzlies, and said, trade me. Find me a trade.

I've tried to be a good soldier here. I don't want to be here anymore. I want to be elsewhere. And Michael Heisley made that happen and got him to the Los Angeles Lakers. It happens all the time. Tillman Fertita, we'll never know, you know, if it was why some of the deals that have happened in Houston over the of the past couple of years have taken place, and there are many that have opined that he got involved. There's tons of owners that have gotten involved in this situation and just said enough

with it. And this is one of those where the owner of the Sixers really could have gotten involved. And instead, he's clearly standing by Darrell in this situation. And I, you know, I praise him for that because there have been an awful lot of times, and especially with these billionaire owners that many times are, they're huge fans of the league and they're fans of these players. And they don't, and they want to do right by guys. And so they decide,

hey, like, let's just do right by this guy. And then they tell their GM whatever to do. Yeah. Because they want people to like them, you know. Yeah,

exactly. And in this case, they dug their heels down. and didn't move, didn't fall for the bluff. And now we wait. And we find out if Simmons is going to play in games, how Sixers fans are going to react,

how this develops if Ben Simmons looks better offensively. How Sixers fans are going to read. This guy is going to get booed so bad. Yeah, I know. We know how they're going to initially react. It's going to be booing from Philly fans like we've never seen before. Santa Claus never got anything like Ben Simmons is about to get.

We're at first. it'll be like that. How will it be week, week two, week three, week four, week five. We'll see if things change

a little bit there. There's a slim chance. There's a slim chance. Some relationships get back together. I don't think it'll happen. I expect the trade to happen, December, January, like I've been saying for months now.

We've been talking about this for months, Chris. December, January, February is the time when a trade is most likely to happen. That's when, half the league can become available to be dealt. That's when Darry and the Sixers are going to have the most leverage possible to get the best deal possible.

Well, the other thing is, but before then, we'll see how things develop. We'll see. Does he pull a heart in and just play like crap on purpose? Just constantly just shoot three after three after three. And then nothing but shoot now, Chris. Yeah. And then they just bench him. So now, you know what I'm saying?

He's getting his money. So when everybody says, oh, they won this. one. I'm not so sure they won this. I don't see that happening. I don't do. I don't see him tanking. No. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't see him tanking. I don't know. I mean, we just saw it. What if, what if let me, let me propose this. This is like a middle ground here. I'm not saying he won't tank. You're saying what if he does? What if it's somewhere in the, what if it's somewhere in the middle? And like he's taking a lot more jumpers trying to show what he can do. but it's just not working because he shoots with the wrong hand.

And he shoots a low percentage on it all jump shots, mid range. It's hurting the Sixers offense. And he's working through it, trying to do what he showed at the highlight real videos that his trainer always posts every offseason. It just hurts, though. It makes them worse than he was before offensively.

Maybe that's what happens. Or in his head, he thinks he's doing what's best. But in reality, it ends up hurting the team. What if that plummeted his value even further? Because teams are like, we don't want this version of Ben Simmons.

We want the version of Ben Simmons who never shot at all. That's always possible, Chris. We don't know how this is going to turn out. My guess is that he just doesn't even play. Just doesn't play. That's my guess, yes. I don't know. It seems like we're heading towards him playing, though.

Because if he's there, if he's there, then he's not losing his money. I mean, if we are to believe what he said, which is basically this, all this is beyond repair. This has been tried to be repaired all summer. Yeah. Now, I understand that I don't think he's showing up for any other reason. I don't think he's had a change of heart about that. I think he's had a realization is this worth millions of dollars to me.

And the answer is, I mean not being there. And if the answer is, okay, all I got to do is be there. and at least I'm not going to lose millions of dollars, but I'll eventually still get my way and not be a part of this anymore, then I'll show up. How bizarre does that story that he just showed up with nobody knowing, though?

Yeah. I mean, what? That should tell you all you need to know about the relationship. Yeah. Yep. He's outside? And even like in the Woj report, he wrote,

it's currently unclear whether Simmons' intentions are to merely report to the, team or truly rejoin it. Woj, who knows everything. Yes. Doesn't know. He doesn't know. He doesn't know.

Yeah. My guess is that we are not going to see Benson's playing for the 76ers, but that, I bet we will. He doesn't want to lose. I bet he's going to play and it's going to be a scene. It's going to be a scene. Oh, I can't imagine what he checks in. Holy moly.

It's going to be a scene. Another big name throughout the NBA is Zion Williamson. You see him in all manner of commercials, even for this upcoming season, and we have not seen him yet in the preseason. And yesterday, Willie Green spoke on Zion, and he said, quote, he's going to get some scans in the next day or two on his right foot, and they'll proceed from there on what's next. Williamson has not yet started running.

They are waiting on scans for that. He has continued to shoot and do some dribbling. I mean, we're a week away from the season, Kevin. You think two weeks ago when they said they're optimistic, he'll be ready for the opener? They were just trying to sell more tickets. Probably. Yeah. He's not running.

He's not running. The season starts in a week. Yeah, he's not playing. I mean, it said Williamson has not started running yet. They are waiting. on scans for that. Yeah. They're going to let a 300 pounds six foot six guy who has a major injury history

playing a week. Yeah, right. He's not playing. He might not be playing until November, December, January. Who knows? Who knows him Zion's going to play? They put him in bubble wrap a couple of years ago after he had an injury. Well, and now you've got the scans, right?

And you have to be really careful with this, too, because any sign of mistrust. that comes along with the dealing of an injury. Yeah. Becomes... Look, it's the contract here. This is now extension time at the end of next year. It's extension time. And so the guy is, you know, it's the third coach that he's had already within that

rookie contract. You got everybody in the free world talking about he's the guy that's going to turn down the extension, just going to end up elsewhere. and so now you have him coming in not healthy for this upcoming season once again having to have scans done and you've got to make a decision. On the other hand, you're a team that you're winning now. Like they want to be a playoff team this upcoming season. And, you know, it's long term, short term when it comes to how to deal with a guy like this. God forbid, you know, he comes back and he hurts himself again or something.

But on the other hand, you know, what are we doing here? Like, this has all been so strange. We didn't even know he had surgery until Media Day. We didn't even know. Right? Yeah, didn't know. Well, he may not know it now, but he didn't report it. I mean, it's one of the most famous basketball players in the world.

And we didn't even know that he had. that he had had surgery. So now you're a week away from the season. They're saying the guy hasn't started running yet. Yeah. I mean, when people are making their season predictions for the Pelicans, that has to be taken very seriously into account.

I don't know what the over under is, but I'd be taking the under just because of this weirdness, just because of the history with the way they've responded with past injuries, and rightfully so with this guy. Like I said, 300 pounds, 6 foot 6, has gotten injured a bunch throughout his life since he was in high school. And he's this jewel. He's this potential savior, a cornerstone of your franchise.

Of course, you're going to protect them as much as you can for the long term hope for him and for your franchise. So I don't know how this goes, dude. I just, I think about Pelicans fans. I just feel sorry more than anything else. I just feel sorry for him, dude, because it's like you have Anthony Davis, one of the best, bigs of this generation. He bounces for the Lakers. Then you get Zion and it starts out like this and you hear nothing but people on podcast and TV talking about how he wants to go to the Knicks ever since his rookie season and it's going poorly. It's not what you expected. And that talk's just

not going to stop as that contract year as you said approaches Chris. And by the way, like I know Ethan Strauss on his new substack had an article like I believe when it first launched that said like how like the CAA, which is the agency Zion works at, you know, CAA represents a ton of people who work at ESPN and like there's this incentive and agenda and all that and the trading of information within. And it made Pelicans fans feel like, oh yeah, like the ESPN's against us, you know, the NICs are, you know, conspiring. But the, but the truth is is that there's a real chance Zion Williamson wants to go to

the NICs. There's a real chance of that. Like, that's real. Everybody in the NBA knows it. That's why everybody in their mother in media talks about it. Like that's out there, period. Okay. And with Zion here, I just think about it like this, Chris, with all these injuries,

is he really going to be the guy to not sign the rookie max extension and change his family's life forever? Is he really going to do that when it comes time to? I don't know. I mean, no, what you probably do is what everybody else does, which is sign it and then force your way out. Yeah, try the, try that approach. Try that approach. That could be what ends up happening. And maybe if the New Orleans can turn things around and become a really good

playoff team, which they very well could. They have a ton of talent on their roster. And in a year or two, maybe Nikiel Alexander Walker is even better. Lewis is even better. Like, this team could get good. It's like not unfathomable. They could get good. It's kind of wild, though, that you, when you mentioned about the whole ticket sales thing,

because you went the entire offseason with never reporting it either. off season. And then as the season approaches, you still say you're optimistic. I get it from a business standpoint. And now we're a week away. And now we're a week away from the season and they're saying he's not running.

Yeah. Now hold on now. Right? You didn't. Yeah. Nobody alerted us to this. I just, like, I just wouldn't, even that, I wouldn't be, I feel bad for Pelicans fans. I do. I really do. I feel like you're not told about your star player who, is why you're going to games is probably not going to play until who knows when.

You're buying tickets for your family. The team could lose this guy in a couple of years. He's always hurt. You don't know if he's ever going to be healthy because he's so big for his size and so powerful. I guess he's an abnormal player unlike we've seen in decades in the NBA. You just, you feel good that you feel horrible. It's, I don't know, I just, I feel bad for Pelicans fans. That's my main takeaway from this whole.

freaking saga going back to 80. Well, we have these three interesting guys that we have started off the podcast talking about Kari Irving, Ben Simmons and Zion Williamson, whose plight this season is certainly going to be a

talking point. We have four others that interest us for this upcoming season. For other people that are intriguing to us for whatever reason for this upcoming NBA season. You want to go first or you want to me too. Yeah, I'll go first. O.G. In In Inobie and Obie and Obey in the Toronto Raptors.

OG looks like an improved player in preseason. Sure. It's just preseason, Chris. Just preseason. We can couch everything we're going to say with that. But this guy has made improvements every single year of his career on the offensive and of the floor. First, becoming a good spot-up shooter, becoming a guy who got a tat closeouts, becoming a guy who could do a little bit off the dribble, better passer, better decision maker after being so raw in college. So raw as a rookie. Now he's crossing over defenders,

using his body and his strength to get to the basket and draw files. He's taken sidestep three-pointers. I'm not saying OGN and Obie is going to be some superstar. Sometimes he still looks a little, you know, funky when he's doing these moves. But the fact is, is that he's doing it. And he looks more fluid and smooth than he ever has, doing it and it's working. So I'm at least putting him high up my most improved player of the

year candidates list. He looks, he looks fantastic, dude. He really does. And it's not and it's not out of nowhere, it follows a trend because he's gotten better every year going back to college. I'm upset over this. Why, Chris? Why are you upset with me? Because this is like a, this is like a commercial for cyberbullying. You and I, got a tweet saying that if we did not talk about OG and Ninobe this week, that there was going to be a reckoning. And these Toronto Raptors fans, cyberbullying has worked in this case. They threatened us. They threatened us.

They said we had to talk about O.G. and Nobie. And you cave. You made him the first frigging guy. I don't want these cyber bullies to exist. Hey, hey. No, no. Chris. You ain't bully at me. Toronto.

Chris. I've got some stories planned for the season that have long been the works. One in particular that I'm very, very excited about that I hope involves the Raptors. And then we have a video coming out next week for Ringer NBA Palooza. I don't know if that's been announced. I'll see it. Whatever. We're having a, we're having like a day of a bunch of videos. Yeah. On opening day of the NBA season. We're doing like an extra show for that, right? We'll be doing like an extra show next week for NBA Paloosa. And also I get a video coming out that day.

That's like about guys that I want to watch. Basically our topic or conversation now. So, OG's on that. And the tweet. Yes, you're after France. Here you go. Are you happy? I would have. O.G's awesome. I love O.G. I also love Scotty Barnes. I want to make it clear. You can bully Kevin, but you ain't bully in me. You ain't bully and me. All right, next one. And I didn't have to get bullied to say this. Karen Jackson Jr., right?

No, this is easy. It's Clay Thompson is the first one on my list. No, yeah, no kidding. Clay Thompson, because, you know, there is a mystery as to when he is going to be coming back. He could be coming back in December. He could be coming back in January. Maybe they hold him out a little bit longer dependent on. how the season is going, but there's a couple things here.

We saw, you know, he was already coming back from injury when he had this injury. So this is different. You don't know what type of player you're getting. You don't know what percentage of Clay Thompson you're getting. You go back and you look at guys in the past. I feel like we've gotten intensely spoiled with Kevin Durant and how he came back. Yes, he had an extended amount of time off, but he came back at peak of powers, right? And there was, you know, we can do revisionist history now, but everybody was talking about, what's he going to be coming back from Achilles?

I mean, there, and there was a track record of guys and what they were when they came back from that injury. and he just made us forget about all of that because it was if he had never gotten injured. That's how amazing he was. And so now you have Clay who was coming back from a knee injury, then coming back from an Achilles injury, and now hasn't played in a competitive basketball game in forever, and what is their record by the time they get him back?

How much are they able to hold the fort down? by the time they get him back. And when he comes back, what is he as compared to what he was prior? Because if he is the full Clay Thompson experience, they're a championship contender. Everybody knows that. And if he's not, they're nowhere close to a championship contender.

So, I mean, a player like that matters so much. And also, I think you want to be this is another one of those I don't know how many Clay Draymond Curry core years you have left right? Like that you have a chance at the title.

This is one of them and it's going to be another Curry prime year where you've got him. I mean it's hard to say he's not in his prime considering what we watched him do last season leading the league in scoring. But yeah, Thompson,

when he comes back, what their record is when he comes back and then what he is, you know, as a player, because I don't think it's fair to set Kevin Durant as the bar for what players look like coming off of that injury. That's not fair at all to have a Kevin Durant level expectation. But yeah, I can't wait to see Clay, which leads us to my second on our list here, Chris, because it's just the Warriors in general, the Warriors period. I've talked a lot about Jordan Poole on this podcast.

Otto Porter Jr. My guy. Oh, God. You're a hater. He looks fantastic. Shooting the hell out of the ball. They were tweeting me. Even the you claim he's the non-shooter. Maybe you should listen to the bullies, Chris. They were tweeting me Auto Corner Jr. Hey, hey, you know who they did this with last year?

Kelly Ubrae. Okay. Yeah. Well, congrats. Anyway, so here's the interesting about. How'd that work out. How'd that work out. here's the fun part about the Warriors here, Chris.

So in preseason, they've attempted 93 shots per game. 57 of those shots and three pointers, 57 of 93 shots per game have been threes. 61% of their shots have been threes. For reference, last year, the Utah Jazz attempted 43, three-pointers per game out of 88.1 shots per game, 48% of their shot attempts. the Warriors are shooting threes at a pace that would shatter records historically. I'm sure, like as happens every year, preseason three point rate drops in the regular season, and then it goes up a little bit in the playoffs.

But maybe this year, Gold State is just going to come out shooting flames from three, just like they did way back. Remember when they were ahead of the curve and they were the team shooting more threes than anybody and then everybody caught up and surpass them, maybe now the Warriors are going to be way ahead of everybody else again. And that's something that I'm watching out for is how much does their preseason style play where they are just launching, like everything possible, translate over to the regular season. That just overall is just something I'm watching with that team.

All right. My next one is DeAndre Aiton. And the reason it's D'Andre Aten is because, look, we don't. know if a deal is going to get done or not. But as we know, as of today, a deal is not getting done. And there were ominous stories about how they just, I'm not accepting anything but the full max. They said, we're not giving you the full max. And that's that. And then it can be revisited. and I think that there is a very good possibility. And I don't want this to be so for the kid.

I think there's a very good possibility that this could become a major cautionary tale. And I'm not saying this because I don't think DeAndre Aitin's good. I just think you're taking a lot of risk into when somebody puts, let's just say, at worst, he's going to make $150 million, right? Like at worst, there is a piece of paper in front of him where he could probably sign it for $150 million today. Tough life. I don't know.

I don't know. I think it's going to be hard for his stock to go up. That's what I'd say. I think it's going to be hard for his stock to go up. You played in the NBA finals. You had an unbelievable playoff run. You know, if you come back next year and, you know, somebody gets injured for 50 games or something happens or what, there's a million things that can happen. And you're in the mix, but you're not a prohibitive favorite by any means.

Like the idea that you could get knocked out by another good team early in the playoffs next year after you made a finals run, it's not crazy. We see it happen literally all the time. the Lakers weren't around last year as the as the playoffs went on. The heat weren't around last year as the playoffs went on. And so there's part of me that thinks, man, you should get the full amount you can get on extension right now and strike while the iron's hot. Because we've seen these cautionary tales before where stock is really, really high. Everybody's thinking one way about you. And then you get to next off season.

And. you can bet on yourself. You can. I'm just saying in his particular situation with that run they made, the run he made, and playing in the NBA finals, I think you're probably at the peak

of what your future value is going to be. I think it's going to be hard for people to think more of DeAndre Aiton after this season. That's what I'm saying. That's certainly possible. this year we could come out of it sons lose in the first or second round to a great opponent

and DeAndre Aiton is no better than he was last year, maybe even a little bit worse because he was so great in that playoff run. But I do think it's also possible that the stock does increase Chris. It is. It's possible because with DeAndre Aten, he has

become a better defender every year to reach a great level. He has become he is a great rebounder. He has become a great screener and roller and finisher around the rim. He's become a very good passer. What he hasn't been asked to do is what people thought he might do coming in. That's be more of a score, post move, shooting threes, shooting from mid-range. In preseason, he has started to shoot some threes. We'll see if that carries on to the

regular season, but they have asked him to show some more dimensions of his offensive game. maybe it won't look that good. And that will hurt his value because teams will be like, eh, maybe he's just, you know, the runner, the roller, the defender, not a guy you can get a bucket or create a shot for you. Maybe teams will realize that, but it could help. So with DeAndre,

and I fall on the side of that I'm betting on him to continue getting better. I think he's in a great situation with a great coach, with great leaders and mentors around him. And I think he himself has really bought into that. We just know how you think about guys depended upon. You know? I'm betting on DeAndre Yaten. I would bet on him.

So I get it. Think about how we thought about Jimmy Butler in the difference in a year. Yeah. You know what I mean? But what do you mean? What Jimmy Butler was wherever people were going to rank Jimmy Butler, wherever whatever the perception of Jimmy Butler was, was never higher than he single-handedly winning an NBA finals game and dominating.

You know what I'm saying? People were talking about him as a top 10 player. Yeah. To your point. And then a year later, you hear everybody talking about Jimmy Butler and Jimmy Butler and how amazing Jimmy Butler is. I mean, it's just the way it goes. Where was he ranked on those like ESPNSI player rankings?

I'm sure it's dropped. I don't know. I can't tell you offhand. But I just know that the way people were talking about Jimmy Butler changed dramatically in a year's time. I don't think he's a radically different player. I think he wasn't on the biggest stage performing at an insanely high level. And DeAndre Aitin was on the biggest stage playing at a great level for a large part of three months last year. And that's just hard to replicate for any team.

You know, it really is. Totally. I understand, Chris. Is your next guy? Next guy here. I mean, do I, can I say, old bomba? Oh, I knew it.

Do you think this is not just a preseason thing? I think he's shown these flashes since this rookie year, man. There's been moments. Yeah. There's been glimmers. And now there's more glimmers than ever. In preseason basketball where, you know, effort isn't the same for every player,

but clearly it is for him. I'm encouraged. He looks terrific in preseason. He's getting stops on defense. He's hustling. He's rebounding. He had that great block from behind. He's scoring, doing stuff off the dribble, finishing around the basket.

He looks like the, you know, the best version of the guy that people imagined when he was drafted a couple years ago. So I'm definitely encouraged. And I think now that he's out, you know, Steve Clifford's Big Red Doghouse, now Bamba's got a chance. he's set loose he's looking good he's got to get a lot of youth around him good young talent around him now I like this magic team just in terms of the fun factor they're not going to be any good

no you see Jalen Suggs diving on the floor the other night yeah I mean there's a lot of effort on this team there's just a fun little it's a football player yeah it's just a fun group yeah it's just a fun group they're not going to be good but who cares

I want to be fun my next one is wait wait a minute do you believe in Baba from what you've seen. I'm serious. Do you believe? Believe in what? Like that he's what?

Believe in him being like a good rotation player on a team. A guy who can help a team win. A guy who can help winning. Like all star. A guy who can help winning. No, not All Star. Like a good player. Worthy of the six pick?

Where people don't just think of the song. I'm serious. Like, do you think he can be a good player? not an all-star not some okay good i'm glad we're on the same page there i'm happy that makes me feel good chris he has talent he has talent and he's got a good head on his shoulders and so if you give me those two things and bigs have been slow to develop slower than their guard or their perimeter peers i don't think it's out of the question at all i don't it's only 23 years old it's not of course it's not out of the

quite look at how big he is and he's not a dummy you ever listen i mean the kid sounds like he could be the president of the united states if you listen to his interviews you ever listen to his interview the guy is crazy impressive yeah i remember years ago when he was in high school he went to the sloan sports illenics conference and like it wasn't just a flex like look how smart i am it was like oh i actually have interests in it yeah i mean he's a giant too yeah seven feet he has like the same dimensions as Rudy Gobert, seven feet tall, seven foot nine wingspan. He's just lighter than Gobert. Gobert is like nearly 260.

Bomba still, I believe, only two, 30, 240. Look, so he's still needs to get stronger. The world is a better place if Mo Bomba is awesome. Let's make no mistake about that. Again, like you were talking about fun, it's fun. He's got a, like an all-time great name. Yeah. Moamba.

It's an amazing name. And giant guys doing fun things on the basketball court has been fun since the beginning of time. You know? And so the world is a better place if Bobba is good. I want Mo Baba to be very good. I want him to be good. Oh, I know you do. I think he will be.

I know you do. All right. My next one is it's not as fun. It's Jason Kidd. An extremely good Mavericks blog is Mav's Moneyball. And they had written an article in June that, no, Jason Kidd should not be the next head coach of the Dallas Mavericks. And it said, you know, record is troublesome, both on and off the court. And it kind of chronicled everything.

And so I find it interesting that, you know, as you're moving on from Rick Carlyle, you've got one of the top five players in the NBA, 10 at most, no matter what your list is. I mean, this is a guy that everybody agrees is going to be an all-time grade and could absolutely be the best player on a title team. He is coming off a summer where he damn near carried his country to a gold medal, right? So he was amazing the last time we watched to play basketball. He's almost beating the clippers, you know, a couple of years. So he's got this guy.

and it's another year under, you know, the low contract. It's the last year under the low contract. Then you're going to be feying him a fortune from here on out, and it makes it tougher to build your team around it. And so Rick Carlisle, though he has not had this playoff success in the last 10 years, he has, by all accounts, been an extremely good basketball coach. You ask other basketball coaches who they think is a good basketball coach, and Rick Carlisle's name always comes up, okay?

So I will concede to them. Now you're replacing him with Jason Kid, who has an under, 500 record as a head coach. And it's ended badly when he's left, right? It has ended badly in both cases. And you have a fan base that wasn't happy about the guy getting hired in the first place, given, you know, the unfortunate stories that have come out about their, the workplace environment of which they've tried to correct. And then you have a guy that has the personal history that he has, you know, it's just they didn't. It's one of those things where if you have the personal history,

people unfortunately will overlook it if you are unbelievable at your profession, but nobody has ever thought Jason Kidd is an unbelievable head coach. In fact, you know, look, say what you want. He left Milwaukee, Budenholzer, who nobody is sitting there, putting in their top three, five coaches in the world. Boonewser won 60-something games with roughly the same roster. So it's hard to look at Jason Kidd and what he has done as a coach. Never mind all the anecdotes.

Like in a more and fader book about Yannis. I mean, that's right. Yeah. And to make the big. And then so you have a fan base that already wasn't incredibly enthralled with the hire. And, you know, you've got. Luca. And I think that you are probably a 99% chance that you are downgrading your head coach, but that head coach might be able to have a great relationship and get the most out of Luca and get the most out of Chris Stas.

I'm not leaving out of the realm of possibility that he does a great job and that a different voice and a different scheme is good for Dallas. It's totally possible. It's also possible they get significantly worse because of who they hired. And that's a rarity. You know what I mean? Let's let's talk about that different scheme real quick because Jason Kidd had a quote last week that went viral around Mavericks forums and Twitter and all that. And he said, we're not going to shoot as many threes as we have in the past.

Last season, the Mavericks were fourth in the NBA and three-point attempt. according to cleaning the glass. 40.8% of their shot attempts came from three point range. Those fourth in the NBA, like I said. This year in preseason, their last, last. Only 31.3% of their shot attempts

have come from three point range. And where are those shots going? Are they shooting more mid-range jumpers? His kid trying to bring back 90s basketball, 2000s basketball? No. No, he's not. They're not shooting any more mid-range. It's identical to what it was last season. What they are doing,

is taking far more shots at the rim. They went from 28th and at-rim frequency last year to fourth in the preseason. Small sample sizes, et cetera, we know. But the fact is that they already are indicating what they're going to be. They're not going to be a team that launches three-pointers. They're going to be a team that attacks the basket, tries to live inside the paint, tries to get to the free throw line. How does that change the dynamic and the real personality of this Mavericks team?

that remains to be seen. Like we don't know, Chris, as you said, it could be better. Maybe this increases what they are and what they can be in the place in the playoffs. But it could also hurt because like the way they could bomb teams from three was a major threat. Like it made them a threat to set offensive records. That's what they did. They set records with offensive rating. Well, and that's what you do.

You build the team and you say, all right, what do we want? Well, Luke and four shooters. That's the ideal situation. Yeah. With any of these guys. when you've got one guy that's going to be ball dominant and he's going to be throwing it around the perimeter.

Guys that can go and knock down shot. And I mean, this is how Tim Hardaway Jr. Feasted. You get it. He gets you a million open threes. And so, yeah,

the whole kid and that whole scenario, it's weird. Usually fan bases are excited about who's taking over for a franchise. Yeah, it's true. And they're not going, They're not excited going into it. And so, I don't know.

It's certainly going to be an intriguing thing to watch. What's your last one? Davian Mitchell from the Sacramento Kings. Just another guy who just fun to watch, dude. He's looked good in preseason. He's had great offensive moments looking like his progress in college is translating thus far. And his defense is just a joy to watch.

It's just fun to watch that dude. Get down in a stance, move laterally and give guys, tell. It's just another guy to have in the league that's just a joy to watch play basketball. Very rare to find a guy that people tune into to watch them defend. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's a pretty good thing for the Kings, right? Yes, for sure.

A guy like that. That's what they've needed for decades. Especially with so many perimeter, amazing perimeter players nowadays. My last one is, who do you got? Your favorite guy, Russell Westbrook. I don't want to be the one to bring up the Lakers. just because just because we always talk about the Lakers. The reason this is the most intriguing, though, is because no matter what team Russ has been on,

he's dominated the ball. And whether he was, and it's not like he has played without stars. He has played with Kevin Durant. He has played with Paul George. He has played with James Hardin. He has played with Bradley Beale. He has played with all of those guys. But he hasn't played with like two Hall of Favors in a lot because hard.

at their peak. Hardin. Hardin was a sixth man at the time. Correct. Now you've got LeBron and you've got A.D. And guess who else is dominates the ball? LeBron James. And so where does Russ fall into all of this?

And does he become the, the Laker fan whipping boy? You know what I'm saying? And the same ways that a lot of teams fans have all and in love with Russ, and I suspect they probably will too, you know, and then you'll forgive some of his, some of his failings. But just in terms of how it is going to work with Russ and LeBron and watching, you know, it took, it took Wade and LeBron, you know, wow, to figure it out. And no matter who he has been on the court with, and we're talking about the best of the best,

players. He still always had the ball. And so is he going to have the ball for the Lakers? Do you think when they take the ball out of bounds that it's Russell Westbrook dribbling the ball up the court? Sometimes. Making the decision? Sometimes it'll be LeBron.

They're in the regular season. I mean, my question ever since the deal happened is the same today. The preseason hasn't changed the thing. It means like come playoff time. Is Russell Westbrook going to be shooting four for 21? or is he going to be shooting four for 12 because he's not shooting as often because he's passing more because he's focusing on defense and everything else that he can do to contribute to winning all russ really needs to do is shoot less often shoot less pull up jumpers and let lebron james and ad handle that how about him playing off the ball how does that work is he going to cut how is he going to shoot spot up threes because russ is a far worse spot up three point shooter now

than he was before. Like his show, like free throw, far worse free throw shooter than he was before. So we'll see. He did make some tweaks to his mechanics this off season. We'll see if it helps. But I'll tell you what, Chris, like the turnovers, Lakers fans are kind of panicking

about how sloppy he's looked early on the season. I wouldn't worry about it too much now. He hasn't even played yet with LeBron James and Anthony Davis. That's going to happen Tuesday night. So tonight against Golden State, we're going to see him play for the first time with those two, with Anthony Davis at the five, by the way. And that's when I think we're really going to get an indication for the first time how this is going to look.

But I do have my concerns, as I have for many years about Russ with his turnover issues, with his shot selection. Hey, you know what? This would be a hell of a one for Phil Handy because you remember Rondo crediting him. When Rondo was making all those threes, they talked about how much he helped. helped him and that he is the reason that he became a guy that could reliably knock down three-pointers. He talked about jumping, not as high, jumping less on his three-point attempts. That's what Russ is trying to do. He still jumps high, but not as high.

Yeah, but Phil Handy, he really did transform Rondo and Rondo gave him all kinds of credit. Boy, would that be a trick if Phil Handy could turn Russell Westbrook into a guy that knocks down threes. yeah no kidding even if just off the catch like that that's all he's going to do he doesn't need to be a dominant guy off the bounce from three he doesn't have to be like just just be efficient off the catch yep Kevin it is always a pleasure um I will talk to you again on Friday thank you to our executive producer Sasha Sal as always and I'll talk to you at the end of the week