The Mismatch - LeBron’s All-Star Achievement, the Unmotivated Heat, and Did the Bucks Screw This Up?

Episode Date: January 26, 2024

Verno and KOC discuss the Heat’s recent skid, losing five straight; OG Anunoby’s impact with the Knicks after blowing out the Nuggets; and the Pacers' impressive win over the 76ers despite not having Tyrese Haliburton (03:25). Next, everyone’s favorite game: That’s True, That Might Be True, or That’s Ridiculous (12:44)! They discuss LeBron’s 20 All-Star game appearances, Doc Rivers to the Bucks, this year's Olympic team, and, of course, Bill Belichick. Got a question for Verno and KOC? Send them an email at [e-mail]! Or you can send the guys a tweet @ChrisVernonShow and @KevinOConnorNBA! The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out http://theringer.com/RG to find out more, or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Did Don Draper really buy the world of Coke? Did Tony Soprano really die? Or just order more onion rings? The finales of our favorite shows can make us argue, make us cry, and make us crazy. From Spotify and the Ringer, I'm Andy Greenwald, and this is Stick the Landing, a new podcast where we'll be telling the story of modern TV backwards, one fade out at a time. Find Stick the Landing on Wednesdays on the prestige TV feed, on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to The Mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon and joining me

he does every Thursday night from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, a.k.a. Kevin O. Concer, Kevin O. Climer. Kevin O. Cameraman. Kevin O. Conflict. Kevin O. Candyland. Kevin O. Blesarian. Kevin O. Sphere.

Kevin. How are you doing, man? Look at you. For the people listening to the podcasts, we are not all on video yet. However, we do put out social clips and you have a new crystal clear HD4K video.

You're looking sharp. We're just, we're coming up in the world, Kevin. We're really, we're really coming up in the world. Shouts to one of our listeners who we met at our live show in Memphis, Jack Hampton, who has become a very successful YouTuber with his YouTube channel Hampton Sports. He's the one I, after we had met him at our live show, I had watched his videos and I said, man, your videos look so good. What do you use? And he sent me all. all the links and I was like, I'm in. I'm in. So maybe I'm just going to become video guy now. You never know, Kev. You never know. I would love to mismatch for our all on video every episode. I think that'd be cool. Yeah, free the mismatch. Why are we not on video?

Yeah, Spotify's good video. Why not? I feel like it's because they think we're not handsome enough. And, you know, they're probably right. They're probably right. I think one time when I asked, they said, you are clip handsome. You're not show handsome. So we are worthy of 30 max, like, minute and a half clip. And I know you try to, you try to really go over the edge and you just post your own clips and do it natively. But I just want everybody to know, Kevin does that on his own.

Nobody at the ringer does that or Spotify or that. They would never let us be on camera for longer than a minute and a half. So Kevin just goes. There's a max of 30 seconds. Yeah. The clips our social team does is a rule 30 seconds only. Kevin goes rogue and does them himself. All right.

We are going to play everybody's favorite game show. And I swear, I mean, the people have been clamoring for that's true. That might be true. That's ridiculous. And so we're going to give the people what they want. We're going to play that in a little bit with a lot. lot of different subjects included. Everything that's kind of taken place through the week is included in this week's episode.

But first, there were a couple of games before we are coming on tonight. The Celtics mashed the heat. Now, I watched the heat last night as well because they were playing against the Grizzlies. And it was basically not the Grizzlies. It was basically the Memphis Hustle. And it wasn't even the Memphis Hustle that has been like together because Scotty Pippen Jr. who just got on the team like a couple days ago, he's playing like closing minutes against Miami. And it was part of it, which was like, wow, this is a great effort by a bunch

of young guys that are getting their opportunity. On the other side, I thought, my God, this heat team, like, I'm never falling for it again. The like, what's wrong with them? You know, do they have some issues, whatever? Like, we've just, if nothing else, we learned our lesson last year when they got into the play-in and next thing we know they're in the finals. They just, you really never know when they're going to come out and give a big effort. And I felt like, like I was texting much of my buddies and it was like, all right, they're going to turn it up in the fourth quarter and then you're either going to make some shots and not let them come back or they're just going to get every stop.

They're going to start treasuring the ball and playing like the game matters. but they're going to give about 15 really tough minutes to you, or 12 probably. And you're going to have to navigate through those. They'll try at the end of the third. They'll try at the first six minutes of the fourth. And if the game's in range, then they'll play it out. If it's not in range, then they'll just cash it in. But like, I just thought that's a veteran team that doesn't care where their seed is.

And so they are, to me, the absolute hardest by a wide margin to judge or evaluate during the regular season. Because we've just seen this a thousand times. And that is a credit to Boston who does not do that. Like on regular occasion, they give big effort. And they go in there and they smoke Miami tonight and run them off the court. And so, you know, I'd like to think, you know, that that is super indicative of what would happen if they play big stakes basketball. But just after what I saw last night, it's hard for me to believe because I'm like, man, this team, they just, they give it everything they've gotten the playoffs. But it is so few and far between that you feel like they give it all they've got until they get to that point.

I mean, you said it. Like that last year they were, they almost got eliminated. in the play. They were just in the play and they were down in the fourth quarter to the Bulls. Like it was almost all over in the middle of April before the playoffs even began for them and they, I mean, who knows?

We'll see how the standings fall for the remainder of the season. If they slip to seven, they'll, they'd be in the playing again. It's not impossible that happens. But I think for Boston they are, you know, clearly in we are trying to run through everybody during the entire regular season mode.

They're not letting up, except for resting poor Zingis, which, I mean, he turns his ankle tonight. He said after the game, he's fine. It looks worse than it actually was. But I'm sure he'll be resting even more often moving forward. But aside from that, Boston's been going full throttle. Miami's doing the same thing they've been doing for years now. I do think it is interesting how Jimmy Butler, after the game said, like, we have to get back to having fun. We have to find joy. How much of that is the fact that board during the season per usual or how much of that is there is maybe something different chemistry wise compared to recent years where they actually did make those runs that's just something

that I'm you know keeping tabs on after he well and I and you know what and it's jimmy can say whatever jimmy wants to say i think that fee that team feeds off him greatly and like there's a lot of these games he may shoot the ball 10 times things that are never happening when the game has high stakes, right? He'll just kind of coast. Yeah, yeah, that's true. He had 11 shots tonight. He was 7.11 from the 4.

What do you have? I don't know if he had 10 last night. He was 4 of 10 last night. Here's his numbers during the losing streak. I'll just give you all five of the losses in a row. 6 of 11, 8 of 10, 5 of 10, 4 of 10, 7 of 11. Perfect. That's why you can't judge anything they do.

because during the postseason, he's shooting double 20 times per game. That's his average last year in the postseason 20, the year before 19. So, I mean, that's like a dramatic difference, Jimmy Butler's usage. So, I mean, in that sense, like you're not reading into it that much. But they are really on a serious skid here. Well, and you know what you notice? They miss Hawkes. Yeah.

Oh, Hawkes is great. They miss him, though. Like, it's just another guy. Once they lose him in the rotation, it's another guy they're down. And it's like he has been so outstanding for them. The shooting percentages, he's just not always even so good, he's been so efficient. And so when you're extracting that from the lineup, it's just inevitably going to less efficient players than he. And then they got to, now they got to try to figure out the Rozier thing on the fly as well, which is.

going to take a minute. Of course. Yeah, integrating any new player. Hard to take anything out of it. Super impressed with the Knicks. Like, I got a little blowback after talking the Knicks up and talking about their crazy stats. The other day, they're like, hey, why don't you wait until they play somebody? Okay, they play Denver. Is that good? And they crushed them. They destroyed them. Right out of the gates. Is Denver good? Is that a good enough one? Like, who you want them to play? Yeah. Like, if you've seen what you've seen, and I'm I had seen that team in person. I was like, and I saw him without Brunson.

And I'm like, man, they got the goods. Like, as we've been saying, like, I think that Nick's team, I think they're really good. And I think that they've got a bunch of guys that they could throw at you. They've got wing defenders. Like, and they got a plethora of them. They got wing defenders. They've got a guy that could get you buckets, you know, whenever he needs to get you buckets. And then they've got guys that could come off.

bench and do some stuff for them. And so, and they've got the, the bigs and they didn't even have, you know, I think this is, it's interesting, they didn't have Hartenstein tonight. Yeah. And so, of course, they're down Robinson. They're down Hartinstein. And you wonder if in some ways that was a better, it forced them into what might have actually been better against Yokic.

And I know Yolkid's always going to have his numbers. He's always going to have his numbers. He's always going to be efficient doing it. But in terms of being smaller, getting out, going, all that kind of stuff, like, you know, there's no great answers for Yokic. Teams try to go small. They try to go big. But I don't know if you for sure would have played your big guy a lot if he's there, but you didn't have a choice in the matter. And so you end up having to play small in this game.

And it was amazing for them. Amazing. I mean, and also, I mean, O.G. and Ovi showed his values throughout the entire game. I felt like, I mean, offensively, just the basic numbers, he had 26 points in the game on 18 shots. But defensively, he was the primary defender on Jamal Murray. And I thought he did a tremendous job defending Murray on the perimeter. He made things hard on him.

He showed his versatility throughout the game, as he has in literally every single game, ever since he was inquired by the Knicks. But I thought it was like really OG's best overall game for the Knicks when you factor in how well he played on offense. But that dude's been a massive difference maker. And I think you look back at the time of the trade, the analysis, you know, it was like, well, could the Raptors have actually won this trade?

Because quickly could, you know, pan into something. RJ can get better. And that's 100% true. But it wasn't talked about a lot like, well, what could OG turn into? And OG is like, In that defensive scheme, in that situation, he feels like an even more valuable version of the guy that we've seen for years with the Raptors. Yep. Another thing worth mentioning is the Pacers really good win against the Sixers, without Halliburton, no less.

And I think one of the things, they can be very balanced. And then they've got another guy that could do the 25 plus thing now, right? in the absence of they got another guy that could get you that 25 plus that you really need. And 10 assists tonight, the creation. Isn't that what we talked about all year? Oh, they need another guy who can create. We'll see. I can tennis is two turnovers tonight.

He was really creating for Indiana. Yep. All right. You ready for the game? Let's play the game. I don't know if you're ready. I don't know if you're ready, Kevin. I don't know any of the questions per usual.

None of them. None of them. Any of them. I know nothing. I know. That's true. That might be true. That's ridiculous.

All right. We will begin with the following. LeBron being a 20-time All-Star is his most impressive accomplishment. It's ridiculous. It's the 10 times in the finals during the modern era, in my opinion. Going to the finals 10 times in this era of basketball is his most, incredible achievement of all, for sure. Getting to the finals is difficult,

regardless of what you want to say about the Eastern Conference through some of those years. It's an incredibly difficult accomplishment year after year after year after year after year to do to always be playing until June. An All-Star game, yes, it's amazing. But you have to be healthy. Like, you have to be available.

You have to be healthy to be available for 10 all-stil, 10 finals as well. Until June. I get it. But Kevin. you like his 20 his 20 all NBA's is more impressive

than his 20 all stars 20 is like impossible though yeah but he also but he also he will at the end of the year have an equal amount of all NBA appearances too

that's more impressive than all stars because that's 15 roster spots take this into consideration so this is ridiculous like right now

Janus has been to I think eight yeah so he would have to go to 12 more in a row and that would put him like in his 40s. And to get to 10 finals, he'd have to go to nine more. I know you don't know about the finals down there in Memphis yet,

but maybe someday you'll see you will. And you know how hard it is to get there. What's his record in those? Four and six. Okay. I was just checking. There's only four guys. in the history of sports.

You'd rather get to, I know you wouldn't, you'd rather get to the finals and lose than just not make it at all. It's better to make it. I think that's true. Gordy Howe, Stan Musial, what is this? LeBron.

These are guys that have been to 20 all-target. Okay, all right. Gordy Howe in hockey, Stan Musial, and I think Willie Mays as well, LeBron, and then Hank Aaron is like 25. 25 all-star games.

I mean, that's, come on. Yeah. 25. 25 is just absurd. But that's in all of sports. In all of sports doing that. So I think you're, I know,

I know you're on as nuts about the finals thing, but. You know, how many players have been to 10 championships? What's the list for that? Did you compile that? I don't know. It's pretty short.

How many guys played in 10 finals? Yeah, it's not many. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know how many guys had to get past Roy Hibbert. Oh, my God. I'm kidding. Come on.

Come on. I think there were some other guys on that team. But Roy Hibbert was the big one. Literally the big one. He was. Literally. Seven foot two. Let's see here.

So we do have the, okay. Let's just stay with the All-Star thing. New York should be ashamed of themselves for not getting Brunson into the All-Star game because of the fan vote. Yeah. What is Dame in Milwaukee, does Dame's team and the Bucks, you know, all of Wisconsin, they have bots or something? Or Nick's fan is just lazy and not realizing that they all had a vote to get Brunson in. I think it's a- I saw you say it's a crime.

Everybody complaining about it, and I think rightfully so. Brunson should have been over-dain. There's nobody to blame, but the fans. Everybody else did right on this. the fans didn't do right on this and they are in media market number one there's no excuse for this

no excuse isn't that something else like you know they're the big one of the biggest markets in the world New York City and Brunson was sixth who was the guy that got in because of the K-pop fans

who was it a couple years ago it was egregious and you defended it oh it was Andrew Wiggins oh it was Wiggins gross Andrew Wiggins starting in an all-star game was embarrassing. Yeah, Wiggins. What an embarrassment that was. Yeah, after a from a K-pop star helped promote him.

Yeah, maybe Brunton said it started like a K-pop. Bam-Bam. Bam, bam is the K-pop star who assisted Wiggins. Yeah, that looks great in retrospect, doesn't it? Yeah. Yeah, I heard you on Simmons pod saying that he has to be attached to something to get traded. It's full on off. You guys started the All-Star game two years ago.

Now he's got to be attached to something to get rid of him. What in the world? I agree. Jayla Brunson should be starting the All-Star game. Crazy. But he was sixth, sixth. And fan voting. Wow.

Dame. And Dan was... And Dame was fifth in Meteor rank. So you didn't even answer. Are you saying that's true? New York should be ashamed? I mean, I don't know. I think the fan voting is, I don't know.

I just, I just think it like there's, no, no, I don't think so. I don't think, no. Say it. Say New York should be ashamed. That might be true. That might be true, but it's not ridiculous and it's not true because I don't like the fan voting process. Like they have days where votes count times five double votes.

So I don't know. It's just online. There's a lot of bots on social media. Had everybody else get it right? Well, I mean, did it? Was everything else perfectly right? For the fan vote? Next question.

Every other All-Star is absolutely right and worthy. No, I mean, I think AD probably should have started over LeBron. So I'd say that might be true. I mean, I'm not going to argue against LeBron making it. Sounds like you are. But 80, 80 should be the choice over LeBron for starters. You're going to give him his captaincy too? And I think that, so just looking, let's go through it.

LeBron stands, get after him. Let's go through it. Just so people who are listening, they may not even know the All-Stars. In the West, the guards, Luca and SGA. That's true. I think people got that right. No Curry? Correct.

SGA and Luca deserve it over Curry and over, and for that matter. In the West, the front court was LeBron, Yolkich, and Kevin Durant. over 80, Kauai, Paul George. I mean, I think, you know, Yokic is obviously correct. You can make arguments against Katie. I had him on my ballot.

I did go with 80 over LeBron, if I remember correctly. And so I'd say that might be true. It's close. In the east, the guards, Halliburton and Dame, we just talked about Dame. He had the tiebreaker over Brunson

because of the fan boat. Halliburton's the correct choice over Trey, Mitchell, Maxie, White. In the east front court, I had the identical ballot. Thomas, Tatum, Embedd, that's correct in my opinion. So overall, that might be true.

People did a good job for the most part, I'd say. How about Halliburton being number one across the board? Isn't that something else? That must be in Indiana that has the All-Star game factor as well. Fans are motivated there. There's probably seeing billboards around the city and all that. I also think that the NBA did a very good job in accentuating his rise to star through that entire in-season tournament thing.

Totally agree. You and I were both in Vegas. There are damn billboards of Halliburton all over the place. And they made that a very big event, and he was so great in two of the games. And so I remember the pod we recorded in Vegas, and it's like, this has been, the story of this is this ascent to super. that is taking place in front of our eyes because he just mowed Milwaukee. We had just watched that game and it was like, dude, that was superstar stuff. Like, I'm the best player on the floor of this game.

And he was doing, memories doing the dame time stuff and tapping his wrist. And it's like, whoa, now this is a big coming out party. And it just kept on carrying over. And I was super impressed by that. I get it that they're having the All Star game. Of course, their fans are going to be super enthused. But Halliburton was not a, he was not a guy that transcended the hardcore fan to the casual fan. And this year he just broke through that completely to the point where he's now, he's now a big name in the league.

And it all happened rather quickly. It really did. and it was some huge games on national TV. So I think for star making, because that's not a team that's on national TV a lot. So people saw him on the in-season tournament. They're like, Jesus, this guy's awesome. That was his first TNT game.

Right. Right. And you see what an impact it had. You know? I was happy for him. Get in on all the NBA buzzers, ankle breakers, and Tomahawk jams with Fandul.

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$5.000 pre-game money wager required. First online real money wager only. $10 first deposit required. Bonus issued non-durable bonus bets that expire seven days after receipt. See terms at sportsbook.Fandle.com. All right. Next one. The Milwaukee Bucks screwed this up by hiring.

Eric Doc Rivers. Here's the way I'll put it. I'll say that's ridiculous, and here's why. You're going from the worst coach in the league to an above average coach. Is he the worst coach in the league? We know Griffin.

Griffin was one of the worst coaches in the league. Griffin was terrible. I mean, a 30 and 13 team just fired their head coach. The team was a disaster behind the scenes ever since training camp. That's why they fired their coach when they were 30 and 13. They knew he was a disaster. And so they had to pull the plug and hire somebody who's reliable.

He knows how to gain the respect of his team. This is a veteran, mature group of players who can take a straight message from him and he knows how to at least install a system. Making adjustments in the postseason, that's where it can become a mistake because he's been slow to make adjustments in the past. We saw that. I think Doc does deserve a bit of credit for making Embed and Hardin work. Embed was not a screen and roller until they got hardened.

He became an MVP. He was optimized during the regular season. They did not implement enough motion and movement. They have better motion movement players this year, which has helped nurse install that system that should have been installed in past year, is under Doc. But I think Doc is, look, I've always been critical of Doc. I know you have. I'm asking.

I always have, but I still think in some regards, it's almost like. Which don't you like? Is it the 32 closeout games that he's lost? Or is it the seven series where he's been up three to two? Or is it the 10 game sevens? Or is it the 12 series when he's held a series lead? That's exactly what I don't like and why I always have a past. Because he is so charming and so cool.

That's the truth. everybody knows that. But I don't think I've ever given him a pass. I've always been super critical of Doc and said he's not great enough as a coach for that team. So then how can you not think they made a mistake here? Because they went from 30th best coach to like 14th, 13th best coach. It's an upgrade. They had to make a move.

They had to. And they got the best guy available. Who are like who's who are going to hire a guy from another team? You're going to go get Kenny Atkinson from the Warriors? Are you going to hire Jeff Van Gundy who hasn't coached for over a decade? He isn't coached for a decade. They said the ones they talked to, right, were Van Gundy, McMillan, and Doc.

That was the report I saw. He was not as good as Doc? Like, who's the candidate you're going to hire mid-season? Well, I mean, he is actually responsible for one of those blown series leads when the Hawks beat the Sixers. The mistake was interviewing Griffin

in the first place, making him a candidate for Janus to enjoy. He had 13, he himself said he had 13 head coaching interviews before the Bucks. He was this 14th interview. 13 teams said no thanks. And then the 14th one gave him a chance.

That was the mistake in the first place. Giving the interview and hiring him, that was the mistake. But they're trying to reverse that and make up for it by hiring a coach with decades of experience who's respected around the league and can at least, at least improve on what's been there. You'd hope.

Did you read that thing about my best friend, John Horst? Did you read that thing about his dog? No, I didn't see this. Was this published this morning? His dog is named Griff. After Adrian Griffith. I got to change that dog's name.

No, but it's like an old dog now. They met when he was just working. Wow. He had gotten a job with the Bucks. Adrian was like working as an assistant coach with the Bucs. And they lived in the same business. building. Wow.

And they named the dog Otis. And then they were on the elevator one day and talking. And he's like, no, the dog's name should be Griff. He was one of my favorite players when he played in the NBA. He loved how hard-nosed he was or whatever. And I'm like, this is crazy. This is crazy. And then the damn thing went on to say that they got, they whittled down the guys for the job.

and that Holiday Middleton and Janice all interviewed the candidates. They all interviewed them. The different guys. And so that's how, like, so this was a

player's thing. And then it kind of goes on. I think it was a Collier's article on ESPN.com. I think that's the one that this was from. And then it goes on and it says in there that basically he had this plan of this attacking defense with Toronto that he had brought there and whatever.

And then they got rid of holiday. And so it was like, he wasn't coaching the team that he thought he was going to be coaching when he made his pitches and he got the job and whatever. And then obviously struggled to adapt on the fly. And that's why the players immediately went to him and were like, oh, we suck on defense. Can we please change this? Yeah, he lost to back to what we're used to. Everybody in the locker.

That's right. That's right. Well, and obviously the Stott's thing was the debacle. Of course. Having that thing go down. What about Terry Stott? That would have been the craziest move to hire Terry Stott. That'd have been like to hire the guy that got berated at practice and quit.

If he had stuck around, maybe he would have been, he probably would have been hired his head coach. 100%. That's why they installed him. Yeah. And that's probably why there was tension there. Yeah, because Griffin felt like he was being undermined, even though Stats had a, I think I was just trying to be an assistant coach and help, which is what he was hired for. That's why the Bucks brought in Doc to be a consultant.

They're like Griffin needs help. He needs a better. I'm going to miss Doc River so much on Simmons Pod. I am. Doc became really good. He's great. He's great podcast guest. Yeah.

But I mean, he gets a pass on his playoff. Does he though? I don't know about that, Chris. I've been critical of him on this pod, on social media. I've been critical. Who was ripping? Did you see anybody ripping the hire? I get it.

I don't know. I don't know. It's just because it's Griffin. But honestly, people went out there going, bro, you can't fire Mike Boodenholzer and then go to Adrian Griffin

and then Doc River. Wait a minute, though. But Chris, like, I tweeted about this bunch over recent days. I wrote an article about it.

I saw a lot of people replying to me saying, but they hired Doc. There's a lot of people saying that. I'm saying media does it. fans will. Yeah, the media loves Doc. They always...

I can't speak for any other media. I don't know. But I mean, his playoff record stinks. Yeah, I know. He's blown tons of leads over the years. It's been slow to make adjustments. That's why it's worrisome. That's why you got rid of booted holes during the first place is because even though he could install a great system and lay the foundation, making the tweaks on the postseason was often too slow

with some of the in-game decisions, management, some of the game-to-game adjustments were too slow. So I think with Doc, that's where the concern is. And we'll see come postseason time. But all I know is I trust him to fix some of the wacky decisions that Griffin had installed on defense. Like having Janus and Portis switch as much as they do, some of the still aggressive perimeter defense rather than playing more conservative, like in past years.

Offensively, you can still run way more Dame Janus pick and roll like you did with Hardin and and Bede. Like there's still more things that they can do to be even better than they've been. And here's the thing. It doesn't even matter. He's good with stars. Stars love him. Yeah.

And you got Damian Lillard and Janus. You're going to have a chance at winning the whole thing if you put. Adrian Griffin was going to have a chance at winning the whole thing. Anybody was going to have a chance at winning the whole thing. I'm not sure about that. Yes, they are. He's 30 and 13. I know.

And he stinks. You're going to have a chance. Yeah. The schedule gets harder. in the second half of the season for them, though, as well. I got to, but what's the worst you could see them being, seriously? I think I can see him being a first round exit. We just talked about Miami.

Like, what if they slip to the seven seed? The bucks could have been a first round exit. Sure. Really? Yeah. I don't know, man. They were last year. I got you.

They got Damian Lillard now. And I know everybody's like, oh, yeah, okay, Damien Lillard. And he doesn't deserve to be an all-star. Damien Lillard is still friggin awesome. And if you get to a playoff game and it's the last three minutes, I want him. We're choosing guys, I want him. It's funny. My week with Dame is like I'm arguing with Bill back and forth about Dame, like being the right choice for the bucks.

And then today I'm like Brunson should have been an all-star over him. Dame, Dame should still be an all-star candidate. But I don't think he should have been the starter over Brunson. But the fact is, is Dame is still awesome. And I hope Doc finds ways to really get him going more. more like Portland did. Like, there's still more that I can do with him creatively in the half court on offense.

I want to see some more, like, take what the Blazers did a little bit. Next statement. Janice and Dame saying that they were shocked by the Griffin hiring is believable. That's ridiculous. It's the clearest lie ever. It is such a lie. Yo, they were acting. Did you see the dancing?

I know. They were so happy. a good time and no no we didn't know about it i have nothing to do with it media makes up these narratives yanna says he said i invited him to my wedding that's what he said so funny and then they say uh yeah it was it was actually to uh serve the hors d'oeuvres but i did invite him i mean what are they talking about how can they come out there with a straight face and like all these headlines everywhere today were yonis and Lillard shocked by Griffin firing.

Like, shut the hell up. Then why were you guys dancing like it was the biggest party ever before the game? I guess they're just showing unity or whatever. And you don't think John Horst, my best friend, went and told them, give me a break. You don't think that they had any input. I get it. Zero. They don't want any blood on their hands.

But can we slow down on the, I was shocked as you. We didn't see this. This is out of nowhere. I swear to God, there's an article like that. I think one of the headlines, let me go look this up real quick. It's like, does, do they think we're stupid? It's like, Janus multiple times this year has complained in front of the media. We don't have a plan.

We don't have a strategy. The coaching needs to be better. The players need to be better. The equipment manager needs to be better. Remember that quote? when he tried to cover up for himself after saying the coach needs to be better? Look, I just typed this in.

I typed in on Google Janus Shock. Janice Antecoopo denies having a hand in the firing of Adrian Griffin. Janice Antecoopo discusses Griffin firing. I loved the guy. Janice Ante Coupo says the firing came as a surprise. Quote, I loved the guy. And then the, I mean, they're all,

it's all the rest of the stuff, right? and then he said, oh, this is great. It says it took one game without Adrian Griffin for the Bucks to rediscover their mojo. They erased a 126 or eased to a 126-1-16 win over the Cleveland Cavaliers, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Adj de Koumpa had reportedly, quote, lost faith in Griffin amidst the Bucks defensive struggles this season. But the Greek freak told reporters following the win against Cleveland, he was not responsible for the coaches firing, and has less power in the organization that some people think, which, by the way, I just told you there was a report,

he interviewed the coach. He literally interviewed the guy. How can you sell me on you have less power than I think you do? What? Next, Andre de Coupa told reporters that he loved Griffin, even goes so far to invite him to his wedding, and said after that, After all, the Bucks remained among the NBA's best teams,

despite some of their struggles defensively. At the end of the day, I trust the ownership decision. I trust the front office. They've never done me wrong in the past. They've always created blah, blah, blah, blah. We did very, very, very well with Griffin and whatever. And then he says, Yonis and company may have been shocked and saddened by Griffin's firing.

But there's no denying that there was some jubilation. Bucks players were shown dancing on the court together before the opening tip. The vibe seemed happy, if not celebratory. And then, you know, these guys, yeah, they're all dancing around and everything. So, geez, Louise, those guys, they had no idea what was happening.

All right, another job question. Kevin, the wizard's job is the worst job to have. That's true. I mean, the goes kind of goes without an explanation, right? Would you like to tell, what's the guy's name?

I apologize. If you're ranking, if you're ranking the best assets, Brian Keith for what it's worth, is the new interim head coach. But if you're, if you're ranking like best assets in the league,

Wizards are 30th. So yes, it's the worst. You would say, they're ass. Yeah, the Wizards are ass. Their ass. The Wizard.

I mean, shots to, what was his name? Keith. Brian Keith. How about my man Wes Huntsel Jr.? He didn't get fired? He moved up to the front office. Again, I get probably an upgrade early. That's amazing.

That is amazing. I don't know. That Wizard's job. That's a tough one, bro. No, no. Like, at what point do you think you're winning? Maybe they'll hire a Belichick. Somebody needs to.

There's a question a little bit later. We'll get to him. Okay. All right. A Bull's Pistons-Lavine deal would make sense. No, that's ridiculous. Why would the Pistons trade for Zach Levine? Hold on.

I'm about to tell you. What would they do that for? This is reported by the athletic. But it doesn't matter what you say. It's ridiculous. The Pistons and the Bulls have discussed a trade centered around Zach Levine. It's desperate. it. The Bulls

would like a return of Boyan Bogdanovich and one of Cade Cunningham, Asseur Thompson, Jaden Ivy, or Jalen Duren. See you later. Hanging up the phone. No, thank you. Here's what's happening. One of two things are happening.

Either A, this report and interest that we've heard from them about, like, DeJante Murray, Siakum, and some of these veteran guys are looking for help, and now Zach Levine, it's either A, they have genuine interests or B,

they're just trying to make Cade happy to make it seem like they're trying to make adjustments to get the team better. I hope it's B. What are they doing? Because if it's A, I don't know why you'd be going for Zach Levine. He doesn't help you be it like a team

that's going to make a sustained run. He literally did this with Jeremy Grant a couple years ago. And it's like, for what? Like, why? So, that was cool. Jeremy Grant came there and averaged 20-something points of game and they lost every night. Fun. And then they moved it off of him.

Yep. And it's like, they're constantly like talking about guys that don't fit a timeline. Like, tear that they, they've already torn it down. They've gotten these high draft picks. Now get some real vets around these kids.

Teach them how to win and move in this direction where that was this, you decide which of these guys you want to be in your core. And then you grow them together. And then by the time they're 23, 24, 25, they're winning something. Here's the thing. And here's the real problem with the pistons. And this is what the pistons need to sort out. They're young guys don't fit.

That's the real issue with Detroit right now. You've got a bunch of non-shooters. Thompson, Killian can't shoot threes yet. Duren's not a three-point shooter as a big. You got these guards with overlapping skills. Ivy's a below-average shooter. you drafted in four consecutive years, Killian, Cade, Ivy, Thompson, four young guys,

and you traded into the first round to get Marcus Sasser. So you have five guards that all deserve the ball and deserve touches and developmental opportunities. And a lot of those guys can't shoot. You need to figure out the mix of young guys that you want. So to me, if I'm Detroit, I'm not going after veterans. I'm trying to flip those young players. either for one of two things,

other young guys currently in the league that you feel like fit more, or on draft night, targeting another rookie specifically that you feel like is better suited to fit against the guys you want to keep. And by the way, just to put it out there,

Cade would be one of those guys that would also be open to moving. I think Cade's been spectacular. I wouldn't want to move him, but he's not an untouchable in my eyes if a team's willing to go way over the top and make a severe overpayment. So I just think that thought is important

to put out there, that there are no untouchables on the pistons. I'm open to anything as long as I'm building young and not trying to rush things. It's ridiculous. Stop doing this. You never know what their plan is. You know what the plan is?

It's something dumb. Okay. I take it back. You do know what the plan is. Next, Jermann Green not being on Team USA in the pool of the Team USA is crazy. That's ridiculous.

us. What? It's a new era. Is it? Tell LeBron. He's assembling the Avengers for this. I'm being serious. If we're having to go in there and we're trying to win this for the country,

you don't want Dremont on that team? Maybe. Really? That might be true. That might be true. Who do you want? Like, you just saw. Don't you want him?

Yeah, what happened of Jared Jackson Jr. last year? How dare you? This isn't about Jared. Yes, it totally is. They played the same role from the team. But seriously, like for international basketball, you wouldn't want to have,

you wouldn't want to have Braymond Green in the mix on that? That might be true. That might be true. Grant Hill was saying his suspensions did, like that basically it's a reason. Yeah. It's not over completely, but like he's not on that list.

Mm-hmm. This is an interesting one, because it's one of those where we do have to separate ourselves from whatever our personal thoughts are about the guy or the warriors or anything else. Like we're all rooting for TB USA. So if I'm trying to put together a team that can go and win, like, man, I do want some dogs on there.

I do want some hard-nosed guys. They, Chris Paul still on the list. Dude can't even get to the rim anymore. Let's be serious. Bam, out of bio, Jared Allen, Paulo Bancaro, AD, Embed. Oh, yeah, I forgot Embedd's playing with us. Okay, we don't need him.

Chet, Jaron Jackson, Jr. Yeah, I forgot about the Embeddick. Walker, Kessler. I don't know. To me, I lean. I mean, it might be true. No, no, no. The Embed thing changes everything because I forgot about that.

It only might be true in the sense that, like, Draymond is such a character. He's liked by some of the veterans on that team. but I lean towards that's ridiculous you know need him to win gold you should be winning you should be winning gold anyway I told I forgot about the NBA thing

because I look I don't want Jared Allen going in there against a you know you know like you saw like the big brutes these teams all have these big like brutes like bringing arms on or hair on their shoulders and they're just push you around if you're not

If you're not, if you're not going to be physical, they play a physical brand of basketball, and they punish you down low. And I certainly want some size there. AD's gotten a lot more physical. And so that, but, so I'm not particularly worried about it. But I did find it interesting that his, that is something that his antics have cost him. Because guys do take pride. And this is going to be, it's going to be a very serious team that they put together for this last go-round.

It's going to be a hell of an Olympic team. Yeah. It is going to be a great honor to be a part of that. Whatever the 12 guys that end up on that team, it's going to be a great honor because it's going to be a who's who. Because they're taking it seriously now after what took place. And especially after losing to Canada the last time around. Next one.

Luca was being soft with getting a fan kicked out of the game last night. Oh, that's true. That's true. Without a doubt. Did you see on TNT, he said. When I'm wrong, I'm wrong. And I shouldn't have done that. I was surprised that he did that, though.

Do you think it was genuine? I think he felt the backlash. Yeah. I think he tried to turn it into everybody making it about him and Timmy McMahon. And that didn't go. It basically turned into, bro, stop. This isn't about negative stuff written about you. This is about a guy yelling at you in the crowd and you wanting to get him kicked out of the game.

And if he were cursing and saying something that got under your skin terrible in the first half, then you would have told him in the first half to get him out of there. If he had crossed the line then, but he was frustrated with the game. They were losing. And the guy just said something rather innocent that pushed him over the edge. And so he got mad about it. And you got the guy, you know, I guess the guy did not. I guess the guy just relocated.

He didn't actually get kicked out of the game. The guy kind of left at his own volition from what I gathered today. But yeah, I think he probably felt the blowback from that. And it was like, all right, I probably shouldn't have done that. Right. But I get him being frustrated. I've been going to games for over 20 years. I don't, I've seen it happen maybe three or four times, like ever.

it's usually like something deeply personal family related whatever I saw I saw Westbrook tried to get guys removed from the front row of a game last year they wore Westbrook shirt and this is like right after he had been real sensitive about it and he tried to get him removed from the game what I saw JJ Reddick get a guy kicked out one time Really? I don't know what he said.

I don't know what he said. But I've seen, I've seen, I've seen, I've seen it happen a very few times. Very few times. Usually, I wonder what the JJ one was.

Usually if the trolls, like, you know, I'm saying the in person, it's usually a drunk guy. They're usually yelling. And usually if the players interact with them, like they usually claim up pretty quickly.

I told you, years ago. I'll never forget. My favorite one ever was this guy was standing up. This is like the end of Mark Jackson's career. Mark Jackson, you know, the TV guy that everybody knows from TV.

Obviously a great player, one of the great assistant in the history of the league and Nick's Pacers, etc. and then also he's been a major part of our lives in the broadcasting side for many years. He was at the very end of his career. and drug guys stood up in the crowd

and he's just screaming at him just screaming at him and finally it's like real quiet in the arena and uh Mark Jackson like gets fouled and then he's kind of like doing the old man walk you know a roundabout way to get back to the free throw line whatever and the guy's like

Mark Jackson why don't you just retire you're too old you're too old Jackson just retire Like he's like standing up at the crowd. He's the only guy standing up. And Mark Jackson walked straight over to like the edge of the crowd. He looks, he stares at the guy and he points at him. He goes, you shut up.

And the guy was like, okay. He just slung back down in his seat. But it was like a man had just told this guy. Like he acknowledged it. He told him to shut up. And the guy was like, okay, all right. This is the most powerful thing I've ever seen. And that totally disarmed.

the guy most of the time. And I will give Luke a credit. When fans started jumping on him, when I saw him in person this year, he would joke back with them. Like, or he would he would jive back with them. I just think, you know, that whole, that whole suns, Mavs thing has some real heat now. I love it. Yeah.

That was fun last night when it felt like the Sons and the Mavs have got some real heat and Chet and Wemby have some real Yeah Like that was Some real rivalry potential with these teams Definitely well and now we got that and we got that bucks Pacers thing yeah on that other side right Where who was it was a Mali Beasley that was

Saying we they don't want to see us in the playoffs or whatever I mean they got me in 4-0 I do wonder how much of the Pacers winning those games that we had talked about, I wonder if the Bucks weren't 0 and 4 against the Pacers if the Griffin things happens. And I know that was not like one of the most recent losses, but I just think it like, okay, you saw that same team four times

and like it just did not instill confidence that you were going to be able to get that done, right? And that's the Pacers. It's like, all right, we've got to play teams better than them. And they just worked us. Indiana has been really good against the top teams of the East. I know. Beat Philly tonight.

They've had competitive games, everybody up top. All right. Last one, Kevin. Bill Belichick is a Tom Brady creation. No wonder nobody's hiring him. That's ridiculous. He's a defensive mastermind. He is an innovator of system and pushing the limits.

Pushing the limits. In the early 2000s, going from 4-3 defense to 3-4, his bringing back nose tackle. Belichick is one of the greatest coaches of all time. The decisions that he made, not calling the timeout against the Seahawks and the Super Bowl letting the clock run, sensing pressure on the opposing sideline, sensing panic. He always had his finger on the pulse.

He was an excellent head coach. He made difficult decisions in the front office, letting go of star players, whether it was lawyer, Molloy, or Richard Seymour back in the day when big paydays were coming and having replacements ready to go. He's a magnificent coach. He always has been. Kevin, Bill Belichick's record without Tom Brady is 83 and 101. I'm aware.

Got to have a quarterback. Got to have a quarterback. and that's where he's failed in recent years. His drafting has fallen off a cliff. He has not been able to find offensive weapons. It's one of the reasons why Tom Brady left for the bucks. He has not drafted well at finding a replacement quarterback. So, I mean, here you are.

Brady going and winning hurt him. It did. It hurt the perception. We'll see if Belichick can go win without Brady. He's not going to have a job. He's going to be working for the ringer. He might be. I'd love that.

get a Belichick-Savon podcast. It'd be a favor. Do that for a year and then go back to coaching and get Shula's record. He's old, though. He should, I mean, like, you don't know how many years you get. You get a, if you want Shula's record, it might have to be this year. By the way, I say, I say all this, I'd have given anything for the Cowboys that got rid of McCarthy and hired him. Yeah.

But it is very Popovich-esque in that sense. You remember when I used to try to get on Chase Serrano's skin, and I used to say he's just a, Tim Duncan creation. Yeah. Like, go look at what he's done. Like, is it him or is it Tim Duncan, bro? So is it him or is it Tom Brady, bro? Which is it?

The truth is. It's both. Is it? It is. It is. It is. It is. It is both because in the early 2000s, Tom Brady was.

It didn't take both for Tampa to win. It took one. Yeah, but I'm saying in the early 2000s, Tom Brady was more of a game manager. He was not, he was not. was, he fulfilled his role. He was like a star in his role, but he was not the dynamic thrower that he became in the mid-2000s in 2007. In the early 2000s, Belichick built those defenses and constructed those game plans to slow down Peyton Manning to contain a

Ladini and Tomlinson in the postseason. He constructed those game plans on defense. And so I think it's always been collaborative between those two, and both of them deserve immense credit. It's not Belichick or Brady. It's the both of them. It's Brady and Belichick. And if you've got to pick one, of course you pick. Belichick wasn't eating fresh herbs from his garden and managing his inflammation. Okay, but if you're picking one, I will always pick the players over the coach. Always.

Always. I always will. I think it's always the players who deserve credit above all else. But the coach does matter a lot. But it's always going to be in. I can't believe Atlanta didn't hire him. and I saw where that means the GM one. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, the GM one, whatever. And it's like, oh, come on. And then the charges. Frigin. Derridden, you dumb ass. Harbaugh. You got Desmond Ritter. You got Desmond Ritter's your quarterback.

I don't want to hear about your, you got Bijon Robinson and Kyle Pitts and you don't get a ball. Who else? Washington and Seattle, the two teams. And they're not hiring until next week, reports say. Has Belichick even been interviewed or has there been any connection between those teams? No, no, neither connection with those. I think, I think the, Washington, that's the one that

Golden State Warriors guy, Bob Myers is going to make the hire, right? Seattle. I think Seattle's going to be the Cowboys defensive coordinator, Dan Quinn. He used to be their defensive coordinator during the Legion of Boom. Is there any other team that could fire their coach? Fire.

Like a surprise decision, you know, out of nowhere. They fire and hire Belichick. It wouldn't be any of the last four, obviously, that are in these championship weeks. So, you know, it feels like you're kind of either given the, you've either given the vote of confidence or you've bailed on it by now. I think what's kind of done is done. I wonder how much of it is Belichick saying no to the falcons gig.

Is he the one passing on the opportunity to go there? Oh, no, it's power, bro. That's it. So if you want to say that saying no. But most of these places are not going to let you have the power that, that crack gave him. They want you to coach the football team and they want to still have their guys in power.

The power that Belichick gained over the years of the Patriots, but what I'm saying is, of course, the teams are going to spin it as, oh, he didn't, like, we wouldn't give him the power, we like our guys. What's Belichick's actual reasoning? Is he actually saying, you know what,

I don't like the situation here. I'm going to wait for a better opportunity. He interviewed twice and they chose somebody else. They chose somebody they could tell what to do. That is what football, football, basketball, baseball, all these front offices. And it's not, it's not a bad thing. But they want it to be, quote, collaborative.

Yeah. And Belichick is a dictator more so. They're not going to be. Yeah, he ain't collaborating with you. What the hell do you know? I'm Bill Belichick. Like these guys are not collaborating with you. Like they want to run it.

They want to run it. And that was what he was allowed to do. It was very fascinating. I read a book about it years ago where that was as a young owner, Bob Kraft understood where his mistake was. You know, the famous Bill Parcells, you think that if they make you cook the meal, they let you.

choose the groceries. And that was like a big thing. In memory, he kept calling Terry Glenn a girl or whatever. We drafted this girl. Terrible. It's all a mess. It was a different world back then.

But he, you know, it had enough. And Bob Kraft wanted his saying this stuff and the other guys wanted their saying this stuff. And then Bob Kraft realized, like, I don't know enough about football.

That's after the Pete Carroll thing. I don't know enough about football. And I'm going to get out of football and I'm going to turn it over to a guy that this is what he does. And he did. And that's why he became one of the greatest owners ever because he got out of the way. And he let the football guys do the football stuff. You know? And I think that that is very difficult to find now.

I listen to these owners during these. This is not an NFL pod, but I listen to these owners. I listen to that guy in Carolina. And I'm like, oh, God, you got no friggin' chance. I listened to the girl in the Titans that got rid of Rabel, and now is like move Rand Carthon is moving. I'm like, oh, you got no chance. Like, they're just, you know, new owners,

they want to be really involved. And, you know, I get it. If I bought a team, I'd want to, I'd think I'd know what I was doing to. Can I say one more thing about a bell check? One thing he doesn't get enough credit for ever. Bletso gets knocked out by Mo Lewis. And he turned Tom Brady, his second year quarterback, instead of the veteran backup Damon Heward.

That's right. He went with the second year guy with no experience over Heward. He chose Brady. Come on. It's true. I mean, it's true. Brady was rewarded. Belichick, one of the things he always did.

I went to like every Patriots training camp back in, like in 2011, 2012, I forget the year exactly, maybe 2013. Whatever year it was, it began to shift from West Welker to Julian Edelman. And I thought me and my friend Bill, we went to Evert Training Camp together, not Bill Simmons, my friend Bill, who have notes since high school. And we thought Edelman was awesome. We were like, this guy is like popping. He is like, he's going to blossom.

Belichick rewarded him the starting slot receiver position over West Walker. And in Patriots media locally, it was like, this is a disgrace. What's Belichick doing? Let's check did what he always did and rewarded the better performer. That's what Tom Brady always talked about. I got to look over my shoulder and outperform the guys behind me because they're going to get the playing time. They're going to get the starting role.

And that's what happened that year. He always instilled that type of mentality where you've got to be paranoid about the guy behind you who's working harder than you trying to take that job. Brady took the backup gig from Heward. He was rewarded. Just like Edelman took it from Welker. He was rewarded until he got hurt that year. But then eventually,

did become the guy after the following season. So I think with Belichick, that's one of the things, I guess it's that it's that culture that he built of hard work and being rewarded for that and for getting better as a player. So I just, I think that's like that I never ever hear that mentioned. The Mo Lewis hit on Bledsoe and then going to second year Tom Brady with no experience. That deserves a lot of credit too. I had no idea that we would end up talking so much. football at the end of this pod. I'm glad that we did. I felt good.

By the way, just to close out at the very end of the show, Bill Russell went to the most finals with 12. Following Bill Russell on the list is his teammate Sam Jones, who appeared in 11 NBA finals, and LeBron James and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar have been to 10. So there you go. Short list. On your most finals appearances. How about even championships across sports is probably not too many either.

Nine finals, Jerry West, Tommy Hineson, Magic Johnson. And then there's not that. Tom Brady has 10 Super Bowl appearances. Is there anybody with 10 World Series appearances? So just for point of reference. just for point of reference, even though you said it was ridiculous at the beginning, there are more players that have been to 10 finals

than have had 20 All-Star games. Because you're going back to the 1960s with the Celtics. The world existed in 1960, Kevin. I'm sorry. As did basketball. And these are Boston guys. You should be ashamed.

You should be ashamed of yourself. The kid grew up in Brockton, Mass. Oh, I knew that. I knew there was Celtics on the list, obviously. Of course there are.

There's littered with Celtics. It's Bill Russell and Sam Jones, yeah. Sam Jones has been to more finals than LeBron James, okay? Leave me alone, LeBron fans. I'm just kidding. But he has.

You can look it up. Kevin, it is always a pleasure. Thank you to our executive producer, Jesse Lopez, as always, and I'll talk to you next week. Hey, have a great weekend. Must be 21 plus in present in select states.

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