The Mismatch - Listener Mailbag Part 2! Plus: Will Ben Simmons Be Playing in a 76ers Uniform in October?

Episode Date: September 3, 2021

Before opening up the mailbag, Verno and KOC talk about the recent reports that Ben Simmons has informed the 76ers that he will not show up to training camp in September (0:30), as well as the news that LaMarcus Aldridge has been cleared to play in the NBA again and that Paul Millsap has signed with the Nets (17:12). Then they get into some listener questions, such as what the Kings should do with Buddy Hield (21:20), what the Rockets should do with John Wall (29:25), whether the Cavaliers’ small backcourt can work (39:45), and much more. Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Associate Producer: Sasha Ashall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, I'm Shea Serrano. And I'm Brandon Jinks Jenkins. We have a new show called No Skips with Jinks and Shea. In it, we discuss the most unskippable albums in hip-hop history. New episodes drop on Thursdays, only on Spotify. Welcome to The Mismatch. I'm Chris Varney and join me as he does every Friday from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, A.K.K.K.O. Concer, Kevin O'Clymer, Kevin O'Contin, Kevin O'Contin. Kevin O'Crant, Kevin O. Verno! It's Friday.

Hey, it is Friday. We have not had a tremendous amount of NBA news this week, but of course we are going to be getting to our mailbag. Before we get to that, it was right after we got done recording on Tuesday in our epic episode in which we played, Do You Believe, that right upon us finishing, there was news that came out that Ben Simmons is not going to go to training camp for the Philadelphia 76ers.

Now, one of the questions I do you believe was, will Ben Simmons be in the opening lineup on opening night for the Sixers? You said, yes, would you like to change your answer? No, I mean, I think I'll stick by what I said on Tuesday. Like, this is all about leverage and negotiation. This is Clutch and Ben Simmons threatening not to show up at training camp unless he's traded. And then it's versus Daryl Morey still the same thing that we've been talking about for months now, Chris. For months, he wants Damien Miller. Is he willing to wait for Damian

Millard? Maybe not. Maybe he'll settle and accept C.J. McCollum, which really isn't settling at all, right? Maybe that's what you end up doing. It's something like that, something in that same spirit. Maybe it's a trade package from like Cleveland or Sacramento or Golden State, whoever it might be. This is all just leverage on both sides with Clutch and Simmons trying to push their way out. And then Daryl Morey and the Sixers trying to get the best possible return that they can get for Ben Simmons. There's still a chance he just shows up at training camp or maybe he skips part of training camp and then shows up days before the start of the season. We don't know how this is going to unfold. But this is all just about leverage. Okay. So I don't know if you saw the Patrick Beverly tweet that came out. Okay. So we had talked about the fact that Minnesota had kind of gotten in there as maybe like a three team

or whatever we know Gerson Rosas and Daryl Morey are not only friends. They were co-workers. Moray! Yeah, they were co-workers. So somebody tweeted out Ben Stenar

tweeted out, add Ben Simmons to DeAngelo Russell, Kat and Anthony Edwards and you got a contender. And Pat Bev retweeted it and put facts. I did not see that. You think that's a contender? I mean, Ben Simmons,

DiAngelo, Russell, Anthony Edwards, and Kat? Not compared to some of the other teams in the NBA. It's a very good team. That's for damn sure. Contender, that's a bit much. I think the challenge here for Minnesota, and I responded to some tweet in that threat, I didn't see the Patrick Beverly tweet itself.

But ultimately, for Minnesota to get Ben Simmons without giving up DeLo or Edwards. I responded to a tweet saying the only path without them that I can think of is something like a three-way trade that would send Tarine Prince and draft picks from Minnesota to a third team for a good veteran player. And then that veteran with Jada McDaniels, Malik Beasley to Philly. Something like that, maybe would appeal to the Sixers if it's a good veteran player. McDaniels is a great, you know, defender as a young player, Beasley. We know what he can do

is a three-ind East type of guy. But like the Sixers want to do way better than that, which is why, you know, like, listen, I've been so critical of Ben Simmons over the years. I mean, Sixers fans as I and I have gotten at it over the years about Ben Simmons. But the fact is, is despite how poorly things ended with him passing on that dunk opportunity, despite how obvious it is that his shooting can be a detriment in the half court, he is still a very good basketball player. And for the Sixers here, they need to be careful about accepting some porous offer.

Yeah, they're not going to do that. It's just not going to happen. I just don't see it happening. That deal, that deal is not as good as, if you're Darrell, you go for a superstar, right, obviously, and then maybe the second tier stars,

but you're not getting down to like Malik Beasley and Jaden McDaniel's packages. I mean, before you do that, you would try to get a buddy healed Marvin Bagley, et cetera, deal type of done. You know, we talked about that a couple weeks ago or months ago, which was kind of like the packaging stuff together with the Simmons contract in order to attain like a healed bagley. Trading up, trading up essentially, right?

Halliburton. You know, like you're trying to get a package out of it. You know, so you're getting a collection of good players, you know, if you can't get the superstar. You know what I mean? But I don't think, I think it'll go kind of one of those two ways. I would be very surprised

if they don't end up getting a return that we think greatly improves their chances because you don't move him unless you can greatly improve your chances. Do you think there's any law, when it comes to the idea of improving your chances, improving your chances means getting some good, you know, players who can help you today, a veteran maybe.

a good young guy could improving your chances also mean like a draft picks based no package it doesn't well why here here's let me i agree i agree you mean accepting it i i mean accepting accepting hell no i let me let me just play devil's advocate here chris is that sort of kicking the can down the road in terms of you're getting a if you get a whole bunch of picks those picks could then therefore be flipped for you know potential star player or potential very good player here, potential good player here. Like you can get multiple guys in return for those picks.

I'm just, you know, throwing the idea out there. No, this can be a potential. You want what's real today if you're trading Ben Simmons. You look,

you have a potential MVP that has had injury things in his past in the middle of his prime. The guy average almost damn near 30 points a game. You can't be moving when now, pieces for future pieces that might become better win now pieces. I agree. That's terrible.

You want to get what's real today. Yeah. You know, I'm with you there. You got to take advantage of these MBEED years. Well, and that's why, you know,

we talked about this last week. John Krasinski from the Athletic is reporting about Minnesota's looking for a third team because they can offer the draft picks based package. Philly doesn't want the draft picks. They want the player today who can help them when, a championship. So, you know, unless that deal's out there, and maybe it will be. Like, we'll see how things, you know, play out over the next couple of weeks. I would expect that unless a deal reaches a threshold that can help the Sixers win a title,

Daryl Morey's going to kick the can down the road. He's going to deal with however weird and frustrating and ugly things might get. Just like, you know, I mean, we have seen in the past with players that have traded stars. Sometimes they wait for the right moment of the strike. Sometimes that hurts you. I don't think that'll be the case here with Ben Simmons. Ben Simmons has four years left on his contract, right? So it's an interesting situation here because this is very much unlike James Hardin last year. With Hardin, Hardin, first of all, is in his 30s.

He only had two years left. So when he showed up the training camp and, you know, there wasn't a lot of effort. He was angry. He didn't want to be there. He only had two years left and he's in his 30s. Very few teams would want to go after him. Very few teams could. He was in a position.

where he could say, I want to go to team A or team B. And of course, he wanted to go to Brooklyn. With Ben Simmons, he doesn't quite have that leverage. He's in his mid-20s. He has four years left in his contract, guaranteed. So for Clutch and Simmons here, like any team could trade for Ben Simmons. Any team, including teams not on your list. So for them, they're in a tough spot here where I don't know if making things ugly

necessarily helps you because you still might get traded to a point. you don't necessarily want to go. The best thing might actually be to come back and play. And then perhaps those other teams are willing to go for you, a willing to give up a lot to get you if that drives up the price. Rather than driving, because driving it up increases the chances that maybe you get to go to a team that you want.

Driving it down decreases those chances. It's very complicated, but we'll see how it plays out. I don't think you'll be there on opening night. I think, no, no. Because the way this is- How about training? camp late September. Let's say three weeks

from now. You don't think it even makes the training camp. I don't know. So you think this month we're doing a podcast about the Ben Simmons trade? Yes. I hope it doesn't happen when we're like on like this weekend or something. And there has to be some kind of emergency podcast or something. Here's the thing. Here's the thing

once you get to training camp, now all of a sudden and throughout this year, that becomes a massive distraction. It just does. It's reached that point to where it's with the best play. and it's with the best and it's with the coach. They said what they said.

I don't give it crap what they tweet out. I don't care what they say now. They said what they said at the end of last season. And it obviously bothered him enough that he doesn't want to be there anymore. And it just doesn't serve anybody any good to be able to come back and then end up making a deal eventually. Look at the deal that if you want to use the whole. Hardin was as a template, they didn't get it off. Didn't get a better deal.

It got to the point where it was a mess. He wasn't trying. The coach is beyond himself. He's damn near crying at press conferences after the game. And it was a mess. And I just don't even think, especially in a big market like Philly, where every podcast, every radio show, every newspaper article is about this. And every reporter is talking to them about.

this. It's a thing that is not healthy for your franchise to be hanging over there. So you try to make that happen so you can all go in and start a new chapter this year with MBE and everybody being happy. And for

that matter, Ben Simmons getting a new lease on life, wherever he is going to be next. It's a tough situation, Chris. You're right. You're right. In that market, especially, it's going to get ugly if Ben Simmons is still with the Sixers and training game. It will get extremely ugly.

And that's not worth it. It might be worth it. No. It might be. Very rarely do you see the deals get better, Kev? Very rarely. But the opportunities can get better. I mean, I'm just saying like there's not an, right now we're talking about things where you're trading Ben Simmons for multiple pieces.

What the Sixers want to do is combine Ben Simmons with multiple pieces to trade up. But you and I, you and I accept it's going to get ugly. When it gets, when it gets. When it gets ugly, the deals don't get better. They get worse. That's the way it works. I mean, sometimes things get ugly and then, like, they settle down and things are normal for a while when people kind of like just, you know, swallow it and, you know, deal with it. And then they just move on.

Like, sometimes that can happen. They know they need to move them. That's the problem. You know what I mean? It's got to get ugly at some point. It's just a matter of if they go through that ugliness or if things break in the middle of that uglyness. It's also better to have your squad going into training camp and practicing together and playing preseason games together rather than trying to.

I don't know if Darryl Mori believes that. Darry in the past has spoken about like a roster is not done being built until the buyout period. He's spoken openly about that. I think Sloan conferences, media availability, I have no idea where he said it. But he said before, like people look at the roster on opening night and think it's done. So I don't think Darry looks at it that way. I think he looks at it like the roster's incomplete.

It doesn't matter what it is on training camp or opening night. It's a matter of what it is come playoff time. And I would say that is a blind spot that many at an MIT conference have regarding these are not numbers on a piece of paper. These are actual people. And this is a team and you need to build that out. And a lot of the most successful teams can go back and they can tell you that the time they had prior to the season or the bond.

that they make as they as the season goes on that that strengthened them a great deal and they leaned upon that when times got tough rather than just being arranged marriages that happen in the middle of a season and then you're in the middle of the season right everybody's and now all of a sudden you're not you're not relationship building as much as the season goes on you do have that opportunity when you're kind of going through it all together at the beginning um so I don't know. I just, I do. I think I'll be gone. And Clutch is obviously extremely powerful right now. You know, now maybe you just stand up to them and say, we don't care what you want, but I don't know if that serves you all that well going forward. I look forward to seeing how it plays. So I really look forward to it because as I remarked on Tuesday show, even if you theoretically wait and you go through all this ugliness the next couple weeks and months into the season, regardless of how it plays out.

And let's say come late January, Damian Lillard's like, I want out. There's still no guarantee that you are the team with the best offer for Dame. So, like, this is a tough spot for Philly. And I don't know. I just look forward to seeing how this plays out. It's going to be interesting. And for Ben Simmons, I hope he falls into a better basketball situation so we can see him in a totally different context. Well, and it's an interesting thing, Kevin, because we talk about Damien Lillard and the Darrell Moore wants,

Darien Lillard and all this kind of. Like, as far as I know, I have never read anything. about Portland wanting Ben Simmons. Well, and that's the other side of the two. Like I said, nobody ever mentions that. That's cool. All right. You know what? There's a lot of things I want.

You know, if I'm a GM, of course, I would love to have Damian Lillard on my team. What matters is does the other team want what I have to give up? And as far as I know, we've never heard anything about Portland to have some, some like incredible interest in Ben Simmons. Maybe they do. But I certainly don't know that for fact. along that same note so gina mazell from the philadelphia inquire had an interview with aaron fentress uh recently who writes about the blazers and he said to gina um that he's heard

that some people within the blazers organization aren't you know totally sold on how dame and simmons would fit together in the sense that simmons and his camp want him to be like the the star the magic Johnson running the show, right? Like the centerpiece of the offense, the Janus, if you will, right? Whereas, you know, with Dame, that's not possible. With Damian Lillard, he's the guy, you're the Draymond Green. So, you know, that's a difficult thing there if you're trading, you know, Dame for Simmons. If you're trading CJ for Simmons, there's still the question fits about how happy he would be there in that role, at least according to Aaron of Ventress within the Blazers organization. Personally, like if C.J. McCollum were to get traded in a

Simmons deal. I'd love McCollum on the Sixers. I think that would be a fantastic fit. I think it would be a great return. And for Simmons with Lillard, I mean, what a, what a perfect pairing that could be. Like, they would have elements of Steph and Dremont with the things they could do on offense. With Simmons on defense, he would add exactly what they need with his versatility, his ability to defend multiple positions. Like you get Larry Nance to as a role player. You get Ben Simmons a star player, you know, who can defend the best players in the world. That would be a perfect fit with Dame. if Simmons accepted the role. But like I said, and like you just remarked Chris, the Blazers, we don't know for sure if I want Simmons, and he suggests that there's questions within the organization

about those two fitting together. So just something to keep in mind. All right. Other small news, a couple of these veteran guys, it sounds like Alderge wants to play basketball again after he was, he left last year from the Brooklyn Nets.

And he got cleared. Yeah, and it was kind of sad because it was kind of like a retirement that he was not ready for, that he thought it was the end of basketball. He even wrote that thing saying, never did I think that last night or the night before was going to be my last game that I ever played.

So good news for him. And then the other one is Millsap. Do you think either of those two players move the needle with teams that they could join? Well, Paul Millsap did join the Nets. he signed with the Nets. Aldridge, according to Shams Trania, is the favorite to go to the Nets. So Paul Milsap, definitely not the same player he once was in his prime years with Atlanta, Utah, or even just early on with Denver. But I think he can still offer something to that team. They needed rebounding.

They needed size with Milsap and or Aldridge. You're getting that with Aldridge's rebounding ability, with the size he brings, the brute force. they needed that and they missed that last year in the postseason with Millsap. You bring another veteran presence, guy who can shoot threes for you a little bit, make the right plays, plays hard. He's not going to have to play 30 minutes per game anymore.

He played 20 minutes per game in the last couple of years. And if you can get that out of him, it's a nice addition for them. It's going to be interesting to see what happens next with the Andre Jordan. There's been the rumors about him being a potential buyout, maybe going to the Lakers even. but it seems like DeAndre Jordan's role with Brooklyn will be further diminished

if they signed Aldridge in addition to getting Millsap. Yeah, it could be certainly. I mean, that's a team just absolutely loaded with veteran guys. Like, truly. That Ned's team. There's not a lot of, like, Brown's going to be like almost by his lonesome

in terms of younger guys that are getting, that might get on the court. Nick Clarkson as well. Well, and maybe, And, you know, the kid at Summer League was fantastic. Kid they drafted from LSU. Yep, Cameron Payne, Dayron Sharp, both of them. Oh, Thomas, Thomas, Thomas, right?

Cameron Thomas and Dayron Sharp. Who does I say? Did I say Payne? Campagne. Yeah, Cam Thomas and Dayron Sharp. They're two late first round draft picks. Sharp looked pretty solid, pretty solid, but you're not going to rely on a rookie in playoff minutes, which is why you have Blake Griffin and Paul Millsap,

ahead of him on the Dept chart and maybe Lamarcus Aldridge as well and why you have Nick Claxton. Nick Claxton's very good. He might be the best big of that group in terms of the versatility he has on the defensive end of the floor. That's the cool thing about Brooklyn, Chris.

They can play so many different ways. And they got, and now maybe a little bit better equipped when they're going to lose guys for an amount of time. Oh yeah. You know what I mean? Now, if you lose Kyrie Irving for an amount of time, if you lose James Harden,

even if you lose Kevin Durrame, for an amount of time, you're able to withstand it even better this second time through with that version of the team. One quick thing before we get to the mailbag. A trade happened after we finished recording, and that is Wancho Hernig Gomez is going from the Grizzlies to the Celtics for Chris Dunn, Carson Edwards, and a 2026 second round pick swap. This deal happened after we finished recording, but it's worth mentioning so you know about it. We'll talk a lot more about that on Tuesday's show. Not that there's a whole lot to discuss

here. Herni Gomez provides another floor spacing big for the Celtics. They open up a roster spot. And for Memphis, you get two guards. Duns a good defender. Maybe he works things out. Edwards, he can shoot a little bit for you. Adds more depth to that team. This isn't really a big trade, but because it involves to Grizzlies and the Celtics, I look forward to talking about it on Tuesday with Chris Vernon. With that said, let's move on to the mailbag. All right, mailbag time. So again, flooded with questions for the week. We'll try to get to as many as we can.

I will say that regarding last weeks, I saw a response that you got, which was mega fascinating to me. After we had goofed about how many questions that we were getting from Denmark, someone responded to you with a reason as to why we were getting so many questions from Denmark, which was crazy fascinating. There are announcers, if you watch NBA games in Denmark, that there are announcers that

do those games, and you get a couple of games a week. And evidently, the announcers on that broadcast have mentioned the mismatch several times. therefore people in Denmark have gone and become subscribers and started listening to the show. And so that's how they are ingesting their NBA content is through

their broadcasters in Denmark. Yeah. And the announcers there. Peter and Thomas. Peter and Thomas. Shout out to you guys, man. Because they've, he said, the guy had said they've mentioned the show many times on the broadcast in reference to different things.

and so then I guess if you're in Denmark and you're watching the game you're like oh okay now I'll go listen to that podcast which is super cool yeah no super cool reasoning I was like wow how about that Chris are Denmarkian friends right that's who they are are denmarking and friends did you go and look where it is on a map what are you talking about look where it is on a map doesn't matter what does it matter All right. Sasha Eschel is here. And she has our mailbag questions. All right, Sasha. What do we got? I do. I have one from Jacob. First things first.

What should the Kings do with Buddy Healed at this point? Do the Kings have any shot at Ben Simmons? What would you try to do? Well, we actually just kind of talked about this, right? Kev. A little bit. They should definitely go for Simmons. Yeah, Simmons wants to do this.

I mean, I think you have a package there that you could put together. And the truth is this, you're not going to be able to have Fox, Mitchell, Halliburton, and Healed all thrive together. It's just an impossibility. They can't all be at their best, right? And so, but you got really good players that I do think have real value. And I think you could package them together and you could get something for them. And so whether that is buddy, whether that is Halliburton, whatever it may be. I mean, obviously, Buddy is the one because he's got the contract right now. And

you're not extending Marvin Bagley. So you might as well, you know, package that with something. And there's probably somebody out there that's still a believer. And you've got enough where you've got the money to be, you know, Heald's contract is a real contract that carries a lot of dollar signs with it. And so you could get really good return. He is also one of the best. three-point shooters on earth in a league that values that greatly. So I don't think it's the worst idea if you're trying to, you know, fix your roster and you're trying to smooth it out, that having three guards is a lot different than having four.

And that's why I say, you've got to make a choice there. And I would say the easiest choice is probably healed. And then Halliburton can play alongside Fox. And you've got Davion as a third guard. in that rotation. And so I think that's, I think it's possible. And I do think you could get really good return. They're actually set up to be able to trade to get something really good.

Let's say you're negotiating, you know, you're McNair with the Kings. You're McNair. And you're negotiating with Daryl Morey and negotiations reach a point where he's like, look, I'm not doing this deal unless Deeran Fox is in it. Are you willing to at least consider giving Deeran Fox up? in a trade for Ben Simmons. Consider, not do, consider. Yes.

Me too. 100%. I know people crap on him all the time. He made all NBA teams. You know what I mean? And again, what I've said is one of the grand mistakes of that Philly team was not having somebody to take that perimeter load off of him. Therefore, the spotlight not shining so bright on.

Nobody was talking about how sorry Ben Simmons was when they lost a Kauai. They weren't because Jimmy Butler was the dude, you know? But when you're flanking it when it's going to be Danny Green and it's going to be Seth Curry and it's going to be Maxi and it's going to be these other guys. Now it's expected like you need to be the perimeter guy because that's going to when you're the all NBA guy, then that stuff's going to come and go. And so I do think if he is flanked by outstanding perimeter shopmakers that he sets them up perfectly. He's a great assist guy on three-pointers. Like that has been so. He's one of the league leaders like Luca is, like these other guys are.

So he could set up really good shooters, which they did not have an abundance of last year. So you're setting up Simmons why the appeal would be for Sacramento. What's the appeal of giving up Fox, though? The appeal of giving up Fox is because I've got the guards right now. I believe, if I believe in Mitchell and I believe in Halliburton, but I'd have to believe in them wholeheartedly, you know what I mean? But if I believe in those guys and I think they're, you know, I envision them as guys that I'm going to be paying a lot of money

and, you know, part of a core that I'm building my franchise around, then that's what you do, right? Because that's what I'm saying. you use those picks on guards, right? So if you're going to, and the other thing is, does their timeline fit foxes anyway? I don't know.

I mean, Fox is, Fox is only 23 years old. I know. Just signed a new contract. You know, so, I mean, he fits the timeline. Are they all great together? You know?

I mean, I wonder, I wonder what the ceiling is with, you know, all of those guards. I think it can work. I think it would be fun and excited to work. Let me just get this right.

When I'm saying timeline, when you've already played four years in the league, and I'm saying it the soonest, it's the three more until you're going to be any good, that's not the timeline that we work on in the NBA. Now you're going to have a disgruntled guy. I'm looking up seven years. I've played it in a playoff game. Then you get the Anthony Davis thing going on. Then you get the whoever.

Devin Booker, if they wouldn't have made a run last year, it probably would have reached a head where it's like, bro, I don't want to be watching the playoffs for my couch every friggin year. And so how long is it until you're good? You're probably three years out. I kind of love, I love the idea on paper of plugging Simmons in place of Fox in Sacramento. Like the high basketball IQ you have the fusion between like him and Davyron Mitchell and Tyrese Halliburton, you know, the defensive intensity you'd have with Mitchell in the backcourt, Simmons, with his versatility across positions.

That would be a really strong young core to have. What if I'm not giving up healed? I mean, now, of course, I got the shooter. Exactly. Yes, exactly. So I'm very much into the idea. I'm Sacramento. Obviously, you're negotiating from a standpoint not to give up Fox,

but I'd be very willing to give up Aaron Fox in a deal. What else we got, Sasha? Yep. We have from Mark, what should the Rockets do with John Wall? what's the best move the Rockets could get for him? Should they trade him? I mean, it's very, very difficult to trade John Wall because of the money, the absorbent salary that he has.

He'll be making $44 million this year. He has a player option for $47 million next season. It's a lot of money. I think you're in a position right now where if you're the Houston Rockets, you need to develop with him in the sense that, like, you have a young team. You have Jalen Green, your rookie draft pick. You have Christian Wood. You get Kevin Porter.

You get a bunch of young guys. Jayshon Tate on this roster. Allow John Wall to be that veteran stabilizer for now. And then maybe come deadline time, something pops up, a team might be saying, we want John Wall, we're willing to package these salaries together. Maybe it's next off season. But I think for now, I'm not even thinking about John Wall, Tray. I'm thinking about how can we best utilize a veteran like him to spark player development

and ease the development of some of our younger guys. That's what's on my mind right now for Houston. Look, here's the truth. Unless you could trade him to Sam Presti, you ain't trade them. Sam Presti'll trade it to you for your next 50 draft picks, and then he'll just buy him out. But other than that, I think you're going to have a tough time finding somebody that's going to take on 44 and 47 billion

over the course of the next two years. What teams would even want them right now? Think about like the contenders. I just said there's one. But like the winning teams who even needs a point card. Like you could say Nix, but they just got Kemma for $8 million annually. Maybe.

I mean, like it's not Miami anymore. They just got Kyle Lowry. Right? Like it wouldn't be them. It's not Utah. It's not, you know, Denver.

It's not. I don't know. Who is it? It's not the Lakers. They just got Westbrook. I would look at it and I would say if he comes a buyout guy or what. I don't look. I don't know.

I would hope. I'm just throwing names out there. Okay. I would hope and I think this could happen. I would hope that, you know, when this time is over in Houston, that we are now to the point where much like an insanely dynamic point guard who was a huge star in the league that got ravaged by injury that he could come back and have a second act like Rose has as a backup guy off your bench that can change pace, it could get you buck, you win you a game one night.

I mean, that's the best case scenario is that John Wall can go the Derek Rose route, where he's not your starter on a good team. He can be the starter on a sorry team, but he is a guy that could have tremendous value as a backup guard, you know? I think that's what you hope. You hope that Wall could be like that. And I don't think that that's impossible to foresee happening that we could look up. And John Wall being a backup on a really good team is something that's real.

Even a starter just on a lower salary. I just think on this salary number, it's hard to find a place for him. What's the next, Sasha? From Michael in Toledo with Summer League in the books and Jalen Green shooting 50% from three, do you feel like G-League 3-point percentage was properly weighed compared to college percentages? Since G-League Ignite prospects take actual NBA range threes, and since this was the first year for the Ignite moving forward, will you put more stock into it? I'm not sure about putting more stock into it. It's still such a small sample size from what we saw,

but I think, I think with Jalen Green specifically, it just speaks to, again, like small sample size. for the G-League, small sample size for his summer league percentages. So we'll see how things pan out. But I think with him, it's just another example of many players in the past where his touch on floaters and layups and his percentages from the free throw line going back to high school are more indicative of future three-point shooting success than a small sample of three-point shots in college or G-League or international. Historically speaking, that's what, you know, has always, you know, projected three-point percentage in the NBA the best.

That's free throw percentage and just touch. So I think with Jalen Green, we'll see if he continues shooting the lights out in the NBA for Houston and that changes things. Like if you have a back court of Jalen Green looking like a rookie of the year, if John Wall is looking pretty good, Houston is like one of those bad teams, Chris, that could end up looking competitive, right? Like, not that they'll be good, but if John Wall is good, if Jalen Green is like the rookie of the year or like in the running,

if Christian Wood continues doing what they're doing, you know, Houston could look competitive. Catch you some nights. Yeah, exactly. I don't think Houston's going to be a team, you know, opponents are just rolling over every night if they get that out of them.

But I think, I think Jalen Green's going to be really good. I'm very impressed with the development. Regarding the G League thing, I mean, I've watched a ton of G League games because of the Memphis hustle, and it's not,

it's not the same. No, it's not the same. It's not the same. It's not the same. It's because the level of defense isn't the same. Yeah. It's, and the other thing is there's guys switching in, switching out. There's guys that have come down to play for a couple of games.

And the other thing is regarding the whole Jay LaGrean and what he did in the bubble, that was a, as you said, very small sample size. And not a lot, not a lot of games that they played there. They didn't play a lot of games. The truth is this, Jay LaGrean's always been good at shooting. Like, that's not surprising. I don't think I need to weigh anything more because I saw him shoot the ball and make shots playing in the G League and Summer League. Guess what? I think he's going to make shots in the NBA too.

He's not a guy that I've ever looked at as, well, let's see if that holds up when the competition gets better. He's a Kduke's score. I mean, for real score. This guy is going to be a big time scorer in the NBA, like 25 plus points per game at some point in his career. He can score, flat out score. And so, I don't know. I don't think, I think he's in an elite level prospect. And so going and looking at his numbers and seeing like, hey, maybe there's these other guys because they really scored in the G League or they scored in the summer league that that might mean something.

Of course, you could probably find instances where it does mean something. But generally, that's not across the board. It's a different game. There's a lot of guys that can be awesome in the G League that can't in the big show. It's the same thing with AAA baseball. They call them quad A players, right? You put them in AAA, and they'll murder everything.

And then you put them up in the majors, and they can't really hit. And so that's not untrue in basketball either. What's next? This is from Nicholas from Tulsa. If you were a GM for a team with championship, hopes, what under the radar player from a rebuilding team would you try to target to help win over the upcoming seasons? All right.

I jotted a couple of these down, Kiv. The hard part about this is that there's not many rebuildings, okay? But the ones that stood out to me just from teams that, you know, they got veterans that don't fit right now. Now, they would have moved him last year, but he got injured. So I'd want to see what he looks like now. But one of the first ones I jotted down was Eric Gordon. That's a no-brainer, right? Eric Gordon could really help somebody.

If he's healthy, if he's healthy, he can really help somebody. And obviously you could get him for, I would think, a small amount now, right? He's the kind of guy that I could see going to a really good team and that moving the needle for the really good team. Derek favors, I get, I mean, he could help you, right? And it's probably get him for nothing. And then I don't know on the contract, but obviously Fultz is there. He looked pretty good before his devastating injury. And now that they drafted Suggs and they've also got Cole Anthony, I don't know, you know, I don't know where he fits in on that.

That's a good one. I haven't thought about Fultz. Fultz, yeah. And then obviously, look, my beloved Marvin Bagley, somebody goes, somebody goes save him. He's been on the island with a volleyball for too long. Go get him. Maybe the Memphis hustle. How about that?

Oh, how dare you? You know, there was a story that came out that they, that was one of the possible deals that the Grizzlies didn't do. I would have exploded. Oh, my goodness. How about two OKC players, Lou Dort and Kenrich Williams, those two? Those are the guys that came to mind for me. Lou Dort, I mean, like, I don't know if he even counts as under the radar. But he's on a rebuilding team with OKC.

He's still only 22 years old. So I'm sure O. Casey would be very happy keeping him. But if I'm a veteran team, I would absolutely love to trade from one of the best defenders in basketball. That seems like a pretty smart thing to do, get one of the best defenders in the league. The torture chamber. What a nickname, right? And then with Williams, he's just a rock, solid role player. You know, I think another good defender makes the smart right decisions on the floor.

He's not a like he shoots a good percentage from three, but he's not a higher volume guy. guy. But if you can, you know, get him, you know, to maintain that even a low volume at his size, you can get something out of him coming off your bench in a rotation than a playoff series maybe. But Lou Dord's the number one guy that came to mind. What's next, Sasha? Okay. This is from William. The calves have been pursuing the small backcourt lineup with Sexland. And it seems the experiment is going to continue seeing as how the team has and move Sexton or Garland yet this offseason.

This model always drew strong comparisons to the Dame McCollum backcourt in Portland, but now that Portland is on the verge of shaking things up, what lessons can be learned from that pairing? Is there anything Cleveland or other teams can do to make the small backcourt work, or is it doomed? And you really just need a six-eight star in the mold of Luca or Kauai in the modern NBA. Oh, boy, are you going to, they get to fire me up. Go off, Chris.

Go off. Doomed? Doomed! bro, if you're Cleveland, and I tell you, you're going to win 50 games are damn near, and you're going to be in the playoffs every single year for the next decade, and you're going to get a Western Conference finals appearance out of the deal, that ain't doomed. Like, we talk about this stuff, like it didn't work.

It didn't work if you are only going to talk about the championship as the goal. But those guys are going to be beloved forever in that market. And they had really good basketball teams with a chance. year after year after year. And one year they caught the breaks. Other years, they didn't catch the brakes. But I don't think that I don't, when I hear people talk about like, oh, it's doomed to fail. Like what is failing being a really good team that we've penciled into the playoffs for damn near a decade who's got an all NBA performer that everybody in the stadium has the jersey?

You sell a million tickets and you're getting to watch playoff basketball. every year. Like, to me, that ain't doomed. If you turn out like Portland with that back court, you should thank your lucky stars that you turned out like Portland with that back court. Now, I don't know if those guys are ever going to become that level. Probably not, right?

Damien Lillard's one of the best five to ten players in the entire NBA. But you think about all the memories they have with him hitting the shot on Chandler Parsons, with him hitting the shot on Paul George with him. I mean, like, man, you. You trade that crap for a, I don't want to hear about Doom. Bro, if you could be Portland, you should sign up for that shit right now. Right now, sign up for it. Because one team wins a title.

You'd have a fun team for 10 years. Okay, I agree with you, not doomed for like, scratch that part of it. I'm with you completely. What can we learn from it, though, in terms of how to best maximize building around two smaller guards. I think we're kind of seeing it in Cleveland, though, in the sense that with Portland, what's been missing? It's been, you know, a great big man, a great rim protector.

It's been switchable, versatile wing defenders. Cleveland's trying to work that out. Like, they have Jared Allen, a very good rim protector. They took Evan Mobley, who can be, potentially be a super switchable piece, you know, on perimeter guys as a rim protector in the interior. they got out Isaac O'Coro last year, a very good defender even as a rookie. Like, he still needs to work on his offense, but you're hoping you get your offense from other guys with O'Coro, like he could be your potential lockdown guy on the wing.

So I think what we learned from it is that Cleveland is trying to fill those gaps in ways that Portland just couldn't. You know, Portland tried things out over the years. They tried getting, you know, Nassir Little. They tried drafting Anthony Simons. They tried Zach Collins. and a lot of these younger guys, they tried signing some veterans to bloated contracts.

And a lot of it just didn't work. With Cleveland, maybe it will work to an even higher level. Like you said, it worked in the sense they made the playoffs every year. It didn't work in the sense that they didn't advance past the first round besides one of those years. So for Cleveland,

I really think they are building the type of roster that can succeed. What's going to be interesting, and I know Derek Bodner from the athletic mentioned this earlier in the week, he said like Cleveland's the dark horse for Ben Simmons. I've heard the same thing that the calves are a team to watch out for for Ben Simmons. And if that were like a Colin Sexton deal, I'm intrigued there. I mean, I'm very intrigued by what that would mean for the cavaliers because I really like Colin Sexton. We talked about him recently, Chris, about how much we like Sexton.

Really good player. But I'm very intrigued with how Ben Simmons would fit into the context of that. in the sense that there are some backcourt limitations with what your defense can be if you have Garland and Sexlin together. Adding Ben Simmons into that, boy, like the front court versatility you would have with Evan Mobley, Ben Simmons, Jared Allen. Oh my God. Like the amount of stuff you could do in that team could be crazy with the lineups

you could throw out there. You could have like a lineup where the smallest guy would just be Darius Garland and the others would all be like over 6-8, 6-9. Like, that's crazy. And regarding the small guard thing, I do think it's actually better equipped now with the way the NBA is played that maybe it was when they started that whole thing. Because, I mean, look, we just saw Trey Young and Bogdanovich as a back court that's in an Easter conference finals. You could try to poke holes in it any way you want. They were there.

They were there in that Easter conference files. And that's not exactly, you know, Gary Payton and Nate McMillan in their back court. shutting everybody down. Come on, Ma. I mean, you can win with it, especially if they're elite-level players offensively. All right. What's next?

From Lucas. If you could put one player on another team just for entertainment purposes, who would they be and where would you send them? I'll let you take a shot at this first, Kiv. Any player go to another team simply for entertainment purposes. Steph Carrey to the Lakers How dare you How dare you?

It's the obvious pick. No. The uncontrollable vomiting I would have would be too much. I think it I mean a couple of things popped in my head seeing Kyrie and LeBron together again just would be kind of hilarious.

For entertainment purposes. Seeing all the Duke guys paired together again. R.J. Barrett in New Orleans or Zion in New York. How dare you? How about the Clippers trading Kauai back to San Antonio?

I mean, if we're just doing entertainment. You think he retires? Or Dallas trading Porzingis back to New York. Yeah. I mean, again, we're just talking entertainment here? Is there anybody that really hates

each other's gut? Oh, look, your answer should have been I mean, this was, this is disgusting. This was the layup of all layups for you. Well, what layup did I miss, Chris? Is it a Ben Simmons thing? No, you would say Rudy

Gobert to Memphis. That would be, there would be nothing. There would be nothing that would make you happier. If that train came down the pike and you saw that, I don't think we would, I don't think we would be able to do the podcast anymore together.

Seriously. You would grow to love Rudy. That's what would happen. After all I've said and done, you would grow up. You'd grow up loving me. Have them on your show. You'd grow up to love Rudy.

Become best friend. Yeah, can you imagine that? He's someday like Tony Allen's like, I don't want to do the show anymore. It's me at the Rudy Gobert. Yeah. Yeah. Tuesdays with Rudy. You never know.

Maybe it'll happen someday, Chris. That would be your favorite. That would be your favorite thing ever. Yes. That would be fun. I'd love to see that. All right. What's next?

Okay. This is from Ricardo from Italy. Oh, can I say Jimmy Butler back to Minnesota also? Oh, that's a good one too. Can I throw that in there real quick? That's a good one too. that wouldn't be awkward. I think he would be so sad.

How about Kevin to rent back to O'KC? Oh, gosh. Unbelievable. All right. I'm sorry. I shouldn't have interrupted. Oh, okay. Ricardo from Italy.

As an Italian, I've been keeping up with Palo Boncaro really closely as probable top five pick in the 2022 draft. What's your opinions on him? Have you watched them much at all, Chris? Boncaro, going to Duke? No. All right. So he is 610, 250, 7-1 wing span.

He'll be nearly 20 years old when he gets drafted next year. And with him, I haven't done my rankings yet. I've been working on my scouting report of him. I think you could compare him to like a Julius Randall, like prime Julius Randall last year that we saw or maybe a Chris Weber, even. This dude, I'm loving his game. And I think like he's the favorite for me to have ranked number one of my. board. He has the versatility to score from the perimeter. He can shoot off the dribble for you.

He can post up. He's a good rebounder inside. He is a good interior finisher. He's so fluid with the ball on his hands and his size. Like I said, it's 610, 250 pounds. Like that's an NBA body coming out of high school. This guy, he can pass off the dribble a little bit. He shows creativity for you. Versatile on defense when he's really hustling on that end of the floor. Like he's one of those guys where there's really not many weaknesses. Like if you're nitpicking, you can say, well, he's still inconsistent as a shooter, but he's gotten a lot better every year. You can say he's inconsistent on defense, but you can say that about a whole bunch of guys

with Bankero. I'm a big fan of him, and he's the favorite to be ranked number one on my board. And I think Duke has a really special player in him. All right. Here's what I'll say. I have not watched him. First, I've heard of him. as you were talking about him,

I've pulled up this YouTube clip on my phone and I'm watching it. And my God, this is a man amongst children. No kidding. This is ridiculous. He's a grown man. This guy.

Whoa. Yeah. Yeah, I'm excited to see him too now. It's going to get me here. Good grief. It's going to come here for college basketball, isn't it, Chris? Man, he's got pull-up jumpers. Yeah.

I mean, he wins. mills crap lord because a lot of people have chet holmgren right the head of him and i like chet holmgren too like he's a seven footer chet homeran's got skill he can shoot it he can play make he can defend it a really high level but homegrin's under 200 pounds like the bancaro has 50 pounds on him homegrin like holman's got to really beef up he's a seven footer who weighs like 195 that's poecoo measurements you better watch your mouth you better watch your mouth not talking about imani bates come on now Don't you dare. Oh, what I think about Bates?

No, no, I'm saying like you're trying to decide who you're going to write number one. Come on now. Well, I mean, Bates won't be in the 2022 draft anyway. So don't need to think about him there. You get me at least one year of Bates. Yeah, then maybe he'll come back for a second year. It's pretty cool. And you got the other kid.

What about the other kid? Jalen Duren. You like him? Pretty good. I like him. He looks like a grown man too. Yeah. This isn't the same anymore.

I mean, this is ridiculous. Memphis, Memphis is having a pro day. I saw. They are reported. Pretty cool, man. Like, Memphis is becoming a serious place for high-level basketball prospects. The new Duke, the new Kentucky? Is that what's happening, Chris?

Penny Hardaway? The year they had Wiseman and Precious and that crew, like, they had a big recruited class. Boogie Ellis had come in out of California. He just transferred. And a couple other guys. But I think, I think that they had a pro day over at the Finch Center. there was over 60, I think. It might have been more than that.

It was certainly over 60. NBA representatives. Think about that in a college gym. I mean, they lined up the entire wall, just watching a workout amongst Memphis players. And that was the year they had Wiseman and precious. This one will be even bigger. Bigger.

Yeah, no doubt about it. It'll be big. It's going to be a wild. It's going to be a fun team to watch, dude. It's a serious talent. I'm looking forward to it. Yeah, that's fair. I forgot he wasn't going to be in this upcoming draft, that's right.

Which is weird, you know. It is weird. I guess it's because his birthday's in January or something. Exactly. Yeah. Tough break. Need to fake his birthday. Say, actually, he was born in December.

Yeah, call Buddy Healed. How weird is that? Like, one month is, that that's the difference. Like, if he was born in December instead of January, he'd be able to call buddy Heim. It ain't that hard. And that was mid-NBA career with Buddy Heel. We thought, oh, actually, he's not 24. He's 26.

Oh, well. Tomato tomato. What else we got, Sasha? All right, let's do a couple of non-NBA questions at the end here. Joe Cummins asks, what is your favorite musician band that your parents introduced you to? Mine is Rolling Stones. That's his. mine is Paul Simon.

Oh, that's a good one. Pink Floyd for me. For sure. Yeah, definitely Pink Floyd. I remember I was first introduced to Pink Floyd back in, I think, 05 with the live 8 show. And I remember watching that with my dad on TV, yeah, July 2005. And that was the first time that I heard a classic rock band. And I was like, huh, I kind of like this.

and then it kind of set me off on a journey to exploring other types of, you know, music from back that I listened to Van Halen, listen to, you know, a bunch of people. I found Woodstock. I saw Joe Cocker, you know, performing with a little help for my friends and going crazy on stage. I was like, well, that's, that's cool. And then I found Jimmy Hendricks. And then it kind of all brought me back.

Like, Jimmy Hendricks was really the first when I fell in love with. Then that brought me back to Pink Floyd. But, yeah, Pink Floyd. I saw, I saw David Gilmore in concert with my. dad the guitarist from pink floyd saw roger waters uh four times in concert with my dad those are memories i'll have for a lifetime uh seeing them perform live the music of pink floyd but um yeah pink floyd memories for a lifetime and music i still listen to all the time now yeah this is probably uh this is actually very good for the mismatch because what i grew up on my parents were huge motown

fans. Both time. Yeah. So like the both the temptations and the four tops. But the one I recall the most, because there was a record player in our in our living room, because I'm old. And it was Songs of the Key of Life. Stevie Wonder.

My dad, like one of his favorite songs ever is Sir Duke from that, from that album. And I remember that playing. Like I remember that vividly. It's one of, it might be the first. like song i remember um and i remember that playing all the time and i love stevie wonder so that's probably a big stevie wonder also uh my mom loved sam cook loved sam cook and so she listened to that a lot at the car my mom had like uh a lot of that 60 stuff and gladys knight she loves gladys night um And so yeah, it was a lot of that stuff, honestly, when I was growing up.

And I would say probably, I guess Stevie Wonder's probably in terms of introduced to and that being like probably my first memory just because they played that song all the time when I was a kid. Did you ever have a phase where you like didn't want to listen to the music your parents did? No, and it's odd. Now that I've gotten older and I've gone back and listened to stuff like from when I was in high school and whatever. and my dad told me my music sucked. Like I do my son several times when I hear what he's listening to. I mean, he was right.

He was right. In retrospect, there's a lot of it that really does suck. Like, I go back and listen to it and I'm like, and I defended it to my father, but he was right. Did you have any examples? Who did you listen to that sucked in your youth? Well, like, I'm just saying like the stuff that you liked when you were in like the 90s. If you go back to, you know, I don't know if you watch that Woodstock thing,

but I mean, that's when I was in like, high school. You were like a limp, Blimpitzget fan? Yeah, like if you turned out of the nookie. Everybody was. It wasn't like, it wasn't like that was like, they were the biggest thing going. But there's also great music in the 90s too, though. No, of course there was great music. But I'm saying, but I'm saying by and large, their music was better.

Objectively, if I go back and listen to the stuff when I was in high school and then listen to the stuff when they were in high school. it's better music. It's like limb biscuit or Sam Cooke. Yeah. There's no lead zeppelins from my, you know what I mean? When I was in high school, there's no Beatles. There's no Elvis. There's no like, none of that.

For when I was in high school, none of that. We don't have those kind of bands. We got like the food fighters, I guess. But that was really Nerfana. Isn't it crazy Paul McCarty still touring, still going? Still performing in stadiums. Because it's good. People want to hear it.

Yeah. You know what I mean? I saw Paul McCartney once, I think at Fenway Park in like 09 or 10, MGMT. Have you heard of them? Yeah. They opened for Paul McCarty. MGM. We're a weird like, you know, line up there.

Are you kidding? Do I know MGMT? I'm just checking. That's all. My man, Andrew Van Wynne, Wygartener, wore a Chris Vernon So shirt on stage. Really? He's from Memphis.

He wore the Tony Allen all-heart grid. Seriously. Wow. The All-Heart Grigrind Tony Allen shirt. He wore it. That's crazy. I had no idea. Yeah. On stage at a big festival. Wow. Yeah. He went to high school here. Andrew Van Wigel. I didn't know that. Yeah. He'd Memphis. That's crazy. Yeah. I had no idea.

idea, but yeah, they kick ass, dude. Like, I saw them. I think it was like their, I think this is 09. So this was before, like they kind of blew up. I think, uh, Oracular Spectacular had just coming out their first album. And, um, yeah, dude, they were super fun live and Paul McCartney was great. Saw them at Fenway Park back in the day. That's pretty awesome from Memphis.

Hey, so there's probably like where you're, uh, like the old weekly, wherever you live. You know, there's that kind of like, you know, where I grow up, But St. Louis, it was called the Riverfront Times. There's one in every market, right? So the one in town is the Memphis Flyer. And the guy who was in charge of the Memphis Flyer is a guy named Bruce Van Wynigarten. That's his dad. And he ran the flyer.

But yeah, Andrew's his son. And Andrew, of course, had this band. He went to like. That's crazy. Yeah, he went to high school here. Is he a basketball fan? Blue-A fan? Yeah.

Bruce fan? Yeah. Yeah. He is. Yeah, he reps. Okay. That's cool. Pretty good.

Learn something there on. I know. I'm a bigger GMC fan because they're a fan of you. No. All right. What's the next, Sasha? Kevin, are you playing any games right now besides Warzone? What system do you play on and what did you grow up playing from Casey Miller?

I'm only playing Warzone right now. I play it on Xbox. I will hopefully play Battlefield if that's good or Halo. If that's good. I'd love to get a new console, having a hard time finding. one, so we'll see if I worked that out at some point before the end of the year. But yeah, just playing war zone right now. That's pretty much all I do besides basketball stuff.

And that's it. And watch Mac Jones highlights. And watch Mac Jones highlights. Yes, that's pretty much it. I love playing war zone. It's a good time. You're going to get your son playing that sometime, Chris. I don't know.

He's 11. Is it too mature? Maybe. Yeah, maybe. I don't know. maybe in a couple years. Like the Warzone or the Call of Duty in four years, five years from now. I got you.

It's just a good, it's a good shooter. I'm a big war zone fan. It's fun. It's a rewarding. It's a fulfilling experience. Understood. No, I get it. What did you grow up playing?

I've always been a PlayStation guy. I played Legend of Zelda, Ocarina out of time. I'm super smash bros. When I had my best friend when I was a kid, Jamie, who over the house, would play Super Smash Brothers all the time. What else did I play? I don't know. Resident Evil. Games are just popping up in my head. Probably a bunch of games that I'm missing.

Grand Theft Auto. Have you always been an Xbox guy? No. I was a Nintendo 64 guy and then I was a PlayStation 2 guy and then I was an Xbox 360 guy. And then I'd stopped playing consoles for five years and then I got the Xbox one just last year during the pandemic to keep in touch with my friends. And I bought Warzone thinking yeah, I don't care about all the extra goodies in the game. I'm not going to spend money on skins or anything like that. And then a year later, I'm buying a Rambo skin of Silverstone in the game for like four bucks, five bucks.

It's amazing. So I'm Rambo running around. All right. Last one. All right. My name is Alex. I'm a junior at Washington State University. What are the creative freedoms you're allowed in podcasting versus

television. It's a good one for you, Chris, because you do both. I would say the TV that I do is not necessarily, it's not necessarily fair. I mean, there's a template and you're talking about a game before and after a game. And so that's not, you know, it's not exactly, I mean, I've never been like reprimanded or anything, you know, and I've never really had a conversation about it. But it is what it is. You're talking about a game before and after the game, generally in the television stuff that I do. Podcasting-wise, creative freedom?

I mean, as far as I know, I've never had anybody say anything to me about what I can't or cannot, you know, can or cannot say or, you know, I mean, I don't, we're rarely, I mean, you could probably speak to this better than we could, Sasha. I mean, I don't go back and listen to every episode, but I mean, we're rarely edited on content stuff. I mean, it would be, you know, maybe if there was something that, like, happened that just isn't relevant anymore, then maybe it would be taken out. But in terms of creative freedom, I have always felt like I have had complete creative freedom. I don't, I don't feel like I'm edited and I haven't

been told what I can or can't say. So with podcasting, it's like it's just more freeform. Yeah. You're just kind of speaking sometimes off the cuff. Sometimes pause are scripted sometimes, but like not ours necessarily. With TV, it's like A block. You're discussing, you know, this, B block. You're discussing this and that.

And then you get an ad break that you get a throw to. Then you get a C block after the commercial break. You know, like it's very structured and regimented. So like your answers, you need to kind of speak in sound bites more. Whereas on a podcast, You just, you're having a conversation. I think, like, a podcast feels more natural, whereas TV feels a little bit more prepped. So in that sense, with, like, creative freedom, I mean, podcasts are more fun in that sense

for me personally, just because it's, you know, it's free flowing. You know what? TV, I would say this. TV, you don't get to call your own shots. You're going to talk about what they tell you you're going to talk about. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's not necessarily a bad thing. That's just the way TV works.

You're not just going to go on there and get to do whatever the hell you want to do, whereas we can talk about literally anything we want to talk about every single episode. You and I decide what we're going to talk about. Like nobody else decides what we're going to talk about. We have that. And that's just not so. You're not going to have your own TV thing where you can just do whatever the hell you want unless you're like maybe like Jimmy Camel or something like that. He probably gets to do whatever he wants to set up the show. But then he has, you know, television executives telling him, hey, we want to do it like this.

This is how you, you know, we do a monologue and then we do a guest and then we do this. And so there's a template for it. But yeah, generally. Did you see Stephen A. Smith on Jimmy Kimmel hosting? I watched that night. I thought he was pretty good. Yeah, I thought it was pretty good. I see the potential of a Stephen A late night show.

Definitely. People can hate on Stephen all they want. Stephen is an insanely talented guy. I would be unsurprised if he'd be good at anything. I mean, he's kind of, he's talked openly about wanting to do late night. Yeah. It's possible. I thought he was good.

I enjoyed it. I thought he was good. He hasn't made the kind of money he's had by not being, by not entertaining people. That's what I mean. People watch him, you know? Same with like Skip Bayliss in a way, you know? Like people, some people love that type of format. That's right.

The debate shows. It's just purely entertainment, you know, and debate and arguing more so than, you know, not everybody likes in-depth, you know, breakdowns of basketball analytics and all that. Sometimes people just like to be entertainment, people shouting at each other.

Two things about Stephen Knight, because I've been around him a couple different times. He was the nicest guy ever to me. He really was. He's very nice in person. The other thing, shockingly tall. Yeah.

When you see Stephen A. Smith Smith in person, you can't believe it. What is he, like, I mean, he's tall. He's tall. He's a lot taller than you think he is when you watch him on TV. That's what I'd say. You know what I mean? There's a lot of people that like you see him on TV and then you've just got this idea of kind of what they would be like if you saw him in person. No. He is he is much taller than the average person. He stands out. He's that tall. So whatever that is. I just Googled Stephen A. Smith Heights says 6-1. I think he's taller than 6-1. I've been around. I've been around. a lot of basketball players. He is not 6.1. I think he's taller than Matt.

No. I'd be surprised if he's actually only 6-1. Yeah. He's tall of the 6-1. Yeah. All right. It's going to do it for the episode. We will be back on Tuesday. Thank you, our executive producer, Sasha Ashall, as always. Kev, I'll talk to you next Tuesday. Looking forward to it.