The Mismatch - Listener Mailbag Part 4! Plus: the Gersson Rosas Debacle in Minnesota

Episode Date: September 24, 2021

Verno and KOC first dig into the reporting on the sudden dismissal of Timberwolves general manager Gersson Rosas (0:45) and discuss a few of the particulars of the Ben Simmons situation in Philly (15:00). Then we answer listener questions about the Raptors, potential Most Improved Players, and much more in our final mailbag of the offseason (23:00). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Associate Producer: Sasha Ashall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up, everybody. I'm JJ John D. Stramski. And I'm Jason Gough, and if you haven't heard, the ringer has gone local. I'm bringing the fire. I'm bringing the rain from the big apple with my show, New York, New York. And I'm reping Shy Town with my new show The Full Go on All Things Chicago. We've got episodes three nights a week with all the reaction to the local teams and guests. Plus bonus episodes around all the big games and storylines.

So whether you're uptown, downtown, downtown, in the burbs, or a transplant. Make sure you follow New York, New York, and the full go on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. Welcome to the mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon. Join me as he does every Friday from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, a.k. Kevin O'Bomber, Kevin O'Connor, Kevin O'Colimer, Kevin O'Chyl, Kevin O'Chylian, Kevin O'Candyland, Kevin O'Call O'California. Hello!

Burnow! What up? Hey, man. So we ended up having a rather busy week in NBA news. Since we last spoke on Tuesday, not the least of which was the president of basketball operations, Gerson Rosas, being let go by the Minnesota Timberwolves. Now, I think everybody, when this story originally dropped, was shocked. number one, because it's typically not the time of year that someone is getting fired, especially with training camp right on the horizon. And the other thing is, though it has not worked out very well, thus far,

these are things that you typically need to let play out. And he hadn't been there very long. I mean, this was an extremely short tenure for some. somebody to run basketball operations. And so I think that originally there was a little bit of shock and then it was like, all right, you know the reporting's going to come out. You know the stories are going to come out. Why is this happening?

And one of the things we learned, John Krasinski, who we cited a couple of weeks ago, he and Sean Sharania of the Athletic, this is an important quote. It was clear the heap of issues from office morale to the lack of success had decayed the Timberwolds front office and sources say they were the driving force behind the move. But why now? In recent days, the organization discovered that Rosas, who is married, had a consensual intimate relationship with a member of the organization. The athletic has learned from multiple sources.

It made several people within the organization uncomfortable. Sources said, while this was not the reason for Rosas' dismissal, it certainly impacted the timing, quote, this decision was made for performance reasons, one high-ranking Timberwolves source said. All right. So what happened originally was there's a lot of reporting about office morale, a basketball, a performance, and all of that type of stuff. But inevitably, when you hear that there was a front office affair, to me, that's like, you came up with a lot of reasons as to why this guy was not doing his job that well or why you didn't believe in him. And you could try to say after the fact like, ah, really doesn't have to do with the affair.

I don't buy that for a second. I don't buy it for a second. I think that he had the affair. It bothered people. They didn't want to deal with it. And then after the fact, you come up with all these reasons as to why he is not the guy you want to lead the organization, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. What do you think? I think the important thing to remember here as well as there's new ownership.

Granted, Glenn Taylor is still technically the owner. Mark Lores and Alex Rodriguez bought that team. And I'm sure for them, they also want to get going here with picking out who they believe can best run this franchise as well. So whether the affair was their opportunity to do this now rather than waiting, I do buy at least performance was a big part of it, at least in the eyes of perhaps new owners. Like getting along with others. Getting along with others. Like you said, office morale and all that. Regardless of the reasons, it's going to be very interesting to see how this plays out

because they are hiring their, you know, executive vice president of basketball operations, Sachin Gupta, to be their new general manager. He was just hired a little bit over a year ago from Sacramento. He previously had been with a bunch of different front offices comes as like this, you know, highly regarded, super smart, intelligent. cap guy and analytics guy from what i understand is he's very very bright so this is another one of those types of like numbers based gms rather than like the old school you know basketball gms um not that he can't do both so it'll be interesting to see if he actually gets the full

time general manager gig or not because he only has the interim tag now but for the timber wolves here this this overall though regardless of who gets that opportunity this is just another another dysfunctional decision. Another dysfunctional thing that happened to this franchise, the only question that we don't have the answer to it here, Chris, is this the end of the dysfunction? Or is this just a continuation of all of the dysfunction that we've seen from years and years and years with Minnesota?

Well, I mean, you know, we're talking about, and this guy, evidently, I do not know Gupta, but he is highly regarded by many people that you and I know. You know the name. It's not often here a lot of like assistant names, guys in lower levels, but Sachin's the name I've heard about for years. It's like, this guy's a future GM. But this is strange because of the circumstances.

According to the reporting by Krasinski, so these guys, they work together in the front office, and then Gupta wants to go to the Rockets, basically in the same role for more money. So Gerson Roses is mad about the timing of the request. It came right before the drafted free agency, which in their words made it impossible for the T-WOLs to let someone with this much proprietary knowledge of the team's plans go to a competitor. The tension between Roses and Gupta only grew later in August when Rosas banished Gupta from the team's offices. and granted him permission to seek employment elsewhere. The issue was resolved in early September after ownership got involved and Gupta decided to stay. So, look, it's not happening involved.

Ownership getting involved. Yes. They made their choice. Look, the T-Wols were paying Gupta, you know, for his work, right? You know what I'm saying? So I understand that side of it. I understand being irritated by it. On the other hand, you know, when you block employees from going elsewhere, you know, that's going to breed contempt to.

It just is. And so very, very difficult. You know, I think one of the things you wonder is why does this guy want to make what would theoretically be a lateral move and go to the rockets? And so the whole story plays out where it's like these two guys in the front office obviously are not on the. the same page and, I mean, banished from the facilities? And now the guy's going to walk in and he's in charge? Just a strange deal to say the least. I thought the line in that same athletic story was from an anonymous person in the organization

who followed Rosa to Minnesota. And they said, it's hard. He's not who I thought he was. Right. And so I think that that speaks to even if it's like an off the record comment. being quoted in a story, even if people are saying that about somebody who is just being fired or about to be fired, kind of says a lot here. But it seems like with this amount of dysfunction, maybe it was a power struggle between

Roses and Gupta. And ultimately, like I said, I think this is new ownership making their choice. And from a PR perspective, whether it's, whether it's the affair, whether it's basketball decisions, the DeLo trade or, you know, the Culver pick, whatever else it might be, basketball, decisions or a fair or whatever, they took their window here and they chose their guy. And that's Satang Gupta. And the question now is how does this impact the franchise? How does this impact what they're going to do with, you know, Ben Simmons trade negotiations?

We don't know the answer to that. We don't know. We can only guess. All I know is things will be very different there. And this is the question, though, Kev. And this is what I keep asking myself. I get it. I understand the dysfunction, the toxic culture, all this stuff.

It all feels to me he's not the same guy that I thought he was, all this kind of stuff. Those all sound like things that, yes, people feel, but that they're saying now after the fact that the guy walked in and he got fired. Are they just throwing him under the bus? Is that what you're saying? Like just throwing him under the bus? What I'm saying is all of these things that existed in Minnesota, evidently, do they all come to light and is everybody bagging on the guy? if he doesn't have the affair. Because if we're talking about the timeline, like, you know what I'm saying? Like, that wasn't like a small thing.

When I, when I originally tweeted about this story, this timing is way too odd. And I said, and we'll eventually get the stories, something happened. Well, that something wasn't, oh, just accumulation of all of this stuff. And then you just randomly decide a week before training camp to get rid of the guy that's running all of your basketball operations. The something that happened was the affair.

That's what happened. Right? I mean, that's the, if we're looking at why now, and I know they can say after the fact, it's not the affair, this is a performance thing, this is a basketball thing, this is whatever. Bro, nobody fires their president of basketball ops in September right before training camp.

And also, I don't think you can necessarily say it's a performance thing. I think, you know, despite some of the iffy trades like DeLo, some of the iffy decisions like Culver, overall, he dug them out of a hole with some bad contracts. There's a lot more talent on the team. There's a direction for the franchise right now. And the whole reason why they're even in the conversation for a guy like Ben Simmons is because of the amount of talent they've accumulated in the position that they're in. So, I mean, it wasn't all bad on the basketball side. To me, it's pretty apparent that this was about dysfunction with the front office.

And that probably started at all. That started the grumbling about what might happen with him. And then the affair was the final straw. And that's what gave them the window to do it. It was ultimately the reason why they did it. It's the reason why they could do it and feel comfortable doing it at this time because the timing, like, is just weird overall. And that's why I come back to what I said earlier, Chris. We don't know if this is a continuation of the dysfunction for the Minnesota Timber

or the end of it. This could be the end. It could be, right? Like, it could be. But based on history, no reason to feel that way. Yeah, I mean, you're having, the guy that's now going to run your team is a guy that was just locked out of the building. Yeah.

Yeah. A couple weeks ago. Literally a couple of weeks ago. Banished. Yeah. Oh, hey, you know what? We know this guy was banished, but now he's in charge. What?

What you're talking about? And all because he tried taking a job with the Houston Rockets. You know, a lateral move And Rosist didn't want him going to a rival. Yeah. And the other thing that came up, which was fascinating, was, you know, reading about the, yeah, there were some that were upset about the,

you know, the Chris Finch thing, right? That they went and hired an assistant from the Raptors in the middle of season. I'm like, bro, that happened last year, right? Like, if everybody, if people were, like, upset about that, like now it's like, it just feels like an after-the-fact thing, you know, that it's part of. And again, all of these things are part of the story. I just, I roll my eyes at the idea that this, that this wasn't triggered by the front office affair, which is rather embarrassing.

And they, you know, and then of course, I don't deny that all these other stuff is true. What I deny is that things wouldn't have kept on going the same if he didn't have the affair, you know. And so, look, it's another sad tale. I feel terrible for Timberwolves fans. I mean, you go from Kevin McAil to David Kahn to, you know, I mean, to Tom Thibodeau and let him run everything. And then you end up with, you know, Rosas, and this hasn't taken either. And so hopefully at some point they can find some stability.

It might just take new ownership in order to do that, you know? And they're getting that. It's right around the corner. But you'd imagine that probably leads to more. dysfunction before it leads to stability. Because usually they take over and they're going to install their own guys in all of the different positions that they feel comfortable working with. And so a little hectic right now.

And I feel bad for the team too. You know, they're about to start a season. They're about to start a season. And it makes it difficult. Carl Anthony Towns tweeted and shocked about it. I know. The day it happened. Well, look, one of the things that I opined with a note.

news first broke was what happened? Like something happened here. Was it the Simmons thing? Because they had been in a lot of those different articles, talks, et cetera, as part of a deal, maybe a part of a three team deal, whatever that may be. And it seems like that was not a factor in this deal in a major way, right? It's not like him being let go by the Minnesota Timberwolves is in conjunction with, a Simmons deal that hadn't happened yet or wasn't going to happen or whatever.

And then that's a whole other thing on that side, outside of the Timberwolves. Simmons seems rather resolute that he ain't showing up next week. And so it's going to be a fascinating thing to watch and to see how that plays out. I'm telling me, this could get ugly, very ugly. And it's very, I was shocked earlier this week when the Joe Lakeup comments came out, him speaking. I mean, I'm assuming it was supposed to be off the record, but this is the difficulty with interviews sometimes when you switch from on the record

to off the record. And he just straight up a saying, in some ways, he doesn't really fit what we're doing. Speaking of the Warriors, makes a lot of money. Can he finish games? There's overlap with Dremont Green.

Joe Lakeup basically said, I don't want to trade for Ben. Simmons and he got fined $50,000 for saying for saying this guy and another team is fit with us. I'm sure it was all a big mistake, but take a 50K out of his pockets. This isn't such a, it isn't the worst thing in the world for the Lake of family. No. It was very strange to see those comments pop up on the timeline.

And I wonder, though, are his comments a reflection of Bob Myers and the other decision makers in that front office of which there are many? or is it just his opinion in the front office is going to do what it's wants? I think he has his own opinion on things. I mean, you remember, it got very strange. It didn't get a lot of attention. But that whole draft time thing, when they drafted Kaminga, and then he did his media availability,

and they asked him about the conversations he had with Steve Kerr, and he said he hadn't talked to Steve Kerr, and he said he went out to dinner with Joe Lakey. Like, that's just bizarre. Yeah. It is. It's a lot of cooks with the Warriors. A lot of cooks. Wait, the guy that you guys drafted

went out to dinner with the owner without the other basketball guys. It's like I said at the time of the draft, Kerr was part of the draft conversation until he left for Team USA activities. And so he was one of the people that wanted Davy on Mitchell. Kerr did.

Front office did not as much as Kerr did. But then as Kerr leaves, his voices and his loud, in the conversations there. Not that he was the guy making the pick anyway. But I guess it's unsurprising to me, at least because of the timing of everything with Team USA and all that. But yeah,

it's even like a Zoom meeting, you know, not even a Zoom. That part's the weirdest part to me. Not seeing him in person. I get that. Well, and the other thing that you think when you read that is like,

oh, no wonder the Warriors drafted him. The guy, I mean, the owner, like, I'm not saying that he defied his, his basketball people. I'm saying it probably didn't matter what his basketball people's opinion was

after they had had these great moments going out to eat together, which I've just never heard of. That's just odd. It's odd for a draft pick and an owner to just go out to eat without the other basketball people involved. Who's going to coach him? Who's going to manage it? All these different things. It's just strange. So he's obviously very involved in everything. And that's a long-winded way of saying, I don't think it's necessarily reflective of what Bob Myers or Steve Kerr or anybody thinks. They might feel the same, but what we know is it doesn't really matter to Joe Laco. He's going to say whatever he's going to say. Exactly.

Yep. And he got pop for it. The Simmons thing, I mean, look, we're, clutch is very powerful in the NBA. They are. They're very powerful in the NBA. it does feel like this is going to be a big game of chicken between the two, right? Yeah, we're rolling in the deep of this, Chris. Are you really willing to give up the money to not show up?

You know, and, you know, if the deals aren't there and they don't like the deals that are out there, I don't know. I mean, obviously the stock's gone down in terms of probably what you could get. in return leading up to training kit, but I'm not sure it gets any better. I mean, at best, you have a disgruntled guy showing up there, and that's not how you want to get things kicked off to start off your season. It's a mess. It is a mess, you know? For a team with championship aspirations, too.

That's right. And I do want to take up for Ben Simmons in this one sense, okay? I don't think it's fair to put a guy in. trade rumors. Let everybody in the free world know, because you've been on this show too, like, Darrell wants Damian Liller, Darrell wants Brad Beale. And everybody in the media is talking about this all the time. Last year, James Harden, right? And they, and he just, I mean, at some point, after 18 months, if that's always the news about you, at some point you're going to break to. Everybody will. Right. So I don't think.

think they've done right by him. This is not one of those situations where it's like, I don't like the way the team's built. I don't like the, I don't like the way this is all gone. I want out of here at a place to win a title somewhere else, right? And I'm just going to, you know, napalm my team until I get my way. This one is a little different, especially when you've had the best player say things that are not positive. The coach say things that are not positive. and the front office put you in, you know, trade rumors for, you know, a year and a half straight. Like, I understand being like, you know what? No.

I'm not, I'm not, I'm not doing this again. I'm not doing this again. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And I mean, I think Matisse St. Matisse Bible in his interview with J.J. Reddick and Tommy Alter on the old man in the three podcast, he brought up the fact that he thought Ben Simmons was just thrown under the bus.

It was unfair. He said they want to talk about him passing up the dunk and passing him the ball more so than him committing the poor foul down the final stretch of that game. That kind of got overlooked because of the Simmons play. But I mean, he's taking accountability there too saying, hey, this isn't just one one play, one decision that led to a serious loss. It was my mistakes too. It was an overall team loss. And, you know, like he's not necessarily wrong about that either. And so for Ben Simmons, I'm sure for him, he's thinking similar. and like, really, like pointing all the finger at me here? This is the last straw for him. So for Simmons, I think both things can be true. It can be true that Simmons is right to feel slighted and right to be like, get me the hell out of here. I want to be somewhere else where I'm the guy and I have support around me. But I also think it's correct to say that he was babyed and coddled all year long by

Doc Rivers who constantly deflected questions about his usage, about his jumper, about his play, his ups and downs, and his inconsistencies always was in support of Ben Simmons. And so was Joel LeBeed all year long until that moment when all of his limitations came through, not taking shots in the fourth quarter, not being a threat in the half court, being afraid, not making free throws. There's also some accountability that Ben Simmons himself needs to take too. We'll find that out this season if he did that over the course of the off season. If there's been some evolution in his game, in his mindset, an approach to the offensive end of the floor. But it's a if not, that's a problem too.

So I really believe both things can be true there. Ben Simmons is right to feel slighted, but he better be taking some accountability himself too. Totally fair. I would just say it has turned into they lost to Atlanta because of Ben Simmons, and that's been wildly unfair. Absolutely.

He was a big part of that, a big factor, but not the sole reason why they lost it. All right, we asked for, you're going to do a mailbag. Like by next week, going to be talking about preseason games and training camps and rosters and all manner of things. But we're going to do another mailbag to kick or to end this off season.

Our producer, Sasha, always has the questions for us. Sasha, what do we got this week? Hello, everybody. Hey, guys. Hello, Sasha. Hey. Speaking of the Warriors, I have one from Gavin, who says, as a Warriors fan, I've heard analysis and come to the conclusion that the dubs may have more varied possible outcomes than any

other team. If Clay looks like himself, their veteran acquisitions fit in well and young players contribute, they could contend in the finals. If not, they could be back in the plan or worse. Besides the Warriors, what other teams do you see as having high variability of outcomes and which do you see as much more stable in their projections? The Knicks are a team that are variable in their projections, I would say, Chris. I mean, they were the four seed last year at 41 and 31. I could see them exceeding that. I could see Randall either matching or exceeding what he did last year, winning most improved.

I could see R.J. Barrett taking a step forward as well, among all their other young players that they have. But Atlanta could get better. Miami could get better. Boston could get better. The Wizards are going to be better this year. The Pacers could be healthier. The Hornets and Bulls could be better. The Raptors now that they're back in Toronto. could be better.

It's possible that the next slip a little bit. I could see them on the playing bubble rather than in the top four in the Eastern Conference. So they're the number one team that comes to mind for me with a lot of variability with where they could finish in the Eastern Conference. This isn't necessarily fair in terms of the question of they could miss the playoffs. And of course we know that health is going to dictate all of these different teams. That being said, I could see a rather wide variance. I'll give you two that were non-playoff teams and then two that were. The two that were are Dallas and Boston.

And the reason I say that is because I think both those teams were very well coached by Brad Stevens and Rick Carlisle, respectively, right? And those, now it's Jason Kidd, who we do have a track record for, and it's not a good one as a head coach. and E. Mea Udoca, who has been referenced many times for jobs in the past, comes very highly regarded. But again, you don't know until the guy's the coach for the first time. And he's given a roster that's expected to win right now. And so we don't know.

But I thought Stevens and Carlisle were both very good coaches. So to be fascinating to see. And with Denver banged up, with the Clippers banged up, with the Clippers banged up. up, Dallas. If you looked up and Luke is the best player in the league and Dallas and KPs a year removed from recovering from meniscus and they're extremely good, that wouldn't be that shocking. If the Jason kid thing is a disaster, it wouldn't surprise me.

And then in Boston, same thing, right? I guess we'll see. They should be better than they were last year, but they have a new head coach too. And then of the non-good teams, I would say just based on talent and where they could land, Chicago, obviously with everything they had in the all season. And the Pelicans who now rid themselves to Stan Van Gundy, right? Like if the Pelicans were really good and Zion's one of the best five to ten players in the league, it wouldn't shock anybody. and the bulls, I have no idea. I could see that really working or not working at all.

You know? New Orleans is an interesting one. We didn't even talk about the David Griffin report earlier this week about some dysfunction in their front office either. A lot, a lot of front office stories this year. Please tell me that you read about David Griffin in the bubble trying to patch or build a relationship. with Zion, and he pulled him into a room and played piano for him.

Beautiful. I wonder what song he played. You think he played Billy Joel, just piano man, just straight up. She gives me my drinks for free. You're right? And he's talking with Davey, who's still in the Navy, and probably will be alive. And Zion's like, what the hell is going on? How about a thousand miles by Vanessa Carlton?

There you go. I mean, you just, I mean, you want to talk about being in touch with today's players. Someone like you, Adele. Holy mackerel. Goes in there. Yeah.

I mean, I can't. I bought some Alicia Keys. I can't. I can't understand. Some people want it all. You think that's what he's thinking to Zion? Yeah.

Can you imagine? I mean, I would pay $500 to have a video of Zion sitting in there listening to David Griffin play the piano. How lame is that? I mean, you think he was trying to be young and hip, but he just goes in there and he plays

runaway. Maybe it was runaway by Kanye West just a simple thing to play. Maybe David Griffin doesn't actually know how to play piano. Yeah. I wish it was a fly on the wall for that moment. Yes. I did see that story at the piano part. But yes,

variable outcomes. Yes. The Orleans is one for sure. I'm with you on all of those, Chris. Yeah. All of them. By the way, Chris, you mentioned the bulls in there. The bulls actually announced today that Patrick Williams sustained a severe left ankle sprain. And that's going to keep him out for four to six weeks. So that's going to keep him out into the season.

And that's important for them. He's a big part of that team, versatile forward. Despite all their additions, he's a big part in that front court and not having him's going to hurt early on in the year, especially if it lingers throughout the season. I mean,

in terms of like the other side of the question, who do you see is more stable in their projections? I mean, assuming good health, it's the top teams. Yeah. or the bottom teams. It's the teams on the extreme ends, like the Brooklyn's and the Milwaukee's versus on the other end, like the rockets and the magic and the pistons where those teams are probably on the lower end.

And maybe at most, you know, playing bubble. I mean, the most stable is Utah. You're going to win a bunch of games. Yeah, they're going to win a bunch of regular season games. They're going to win a bunch of games and then lose. in the class. Don't you don't you dare slander Rudy Gobert. Oh, Sasha.

I'll tell you what, though. I mean, for this jazz team, this is a big season for them, though. If they just have another year like that, how long is Donovan Mitchell going to be like, yeah, I'm okay with being a good regular season team? How long are these guys going to think, oh, maybe the status quo isn't enough and big changes need to happen? Like, Rudy Gobert needs to, he better come back this season and be. able to beat a switch down low. He's got a.

I think you wonderate him, Chris. We had a question somewhere in there about if you could change the basketball opinion of your co-host, what would it be? For me, it would be your opinion of Rudy Gobert. That's what I would say. That was from Adam from Washington, D.C., by the way. But, like, that's the opinion. I wish I could change with you.

But he does need to improve on offense. And this is a big year for the jazz to make those changes and prove that they can be more than just a great regular season team. Anyway, sorry. Just for posterity, Chris, what's the opinion of Kevin's that you would change? All the French guys. All the French guys. He overrated all of them.

Killing it Hayes, Frank Militina. Every one of them. Timothy Luahu, which was early a podcast topic for us, but that was before we were together. Timothy Luauau. Nobody loves French basketball players more than Kevin O'Connor. The funny thing is. Kevin, who can he?

The funny thing is, is back in 2013, I had Gobert ranked, I think, outside the first round. That's one I missed on of the French prospects. Never again, you said. Miss on Rudy. But hey, I'll tell you what, Victor Webbanyama, the French prospect coming on a couple of years. He's my savior, Chris. He is my savior. I'm with it.

All right. What's the next question? All right. Next question's from Jacob. Are there any players you guys have your eye on as potential most improved player candidates this year. I'll pull out the fan duel odds here for most improved player. Right now they have Michael Porter Jr.

from the Nuggets is the favorite. And then just the rattle off some others. No, no, no, no, no, no. Don't give them to me yet. Let me give you mine before. I haven't seen the odds. Okay. All right.

Okay. See if any of my guys are in here. All right. All right. All right. The first name that I wrote down was Terrence Man. Terrence Man. Let me scroll down the list and see if I can find them on here.

I'm not seeing Terrence man. He's plus 8,500. So he's way down the list. Terrence man shot 51% from the field and 42% from three. Those are pretty good odds. I'll tell you that. If I wasn't a voter, if I wasn't a voter,

that'd be a pretty good bet. Well, Kauai's out, right? Yeah, Kauai's out, the opportunity for him. That's a good one, Chris. That's a good one. I got to give you that. I just thought,

I just thought there's a guy that has not played all that much. We don't know, you know, less than 20 minutes a game. And I'd imagine I'm a fan.

And I think his role will, and he showed up in the playoffs too, and I think his role will, will grow. The other ones I wrote down were R.J.

Barrett, Garland. Okay. Garland was like 17 a game or something like that. Last year, we'll see what happens with the whole Sexland

back court, but yeah, Garland was one. I don't know if you heard Jackie McMullough did this interview with Steph Curry. I believe she said it's for a thing with the ringer that's coming out. Yeah, her podcast.

She said that Curry loves Garland. Hey, I mean, he must be listening to the mismatch, too, Chris. Yeah. Must be listening to us. We love Darius Garland. Is Garland on there? Well, first of all, Terrence Man, I think, is like 50-second. Oh, God.

for odds plus 8,500. Barrett? Barrett is high up there. RJ Barrett has a 22nd highest rank. Garland. Darius Garland has the 15th highest odds plus 3,400. So those are pretty good numbers. Yeah, the last name I wrote down was Maxi,

just assuming Simmons gets traded. But he's in second year. So that's not really fair. Yeah, second year from Maxi. I'm not seeing him on the list from a quick, glance here. Okay. But,

um, there you go. Taco falls on it, plus 25,000. Ha, ha, about, that's a bowl, speaking of giant.

I'm not, the bowl ball on there, plus 13,000. But, but the first person on the list is Michael Porter, Jr. As I said earlier,

plus 950. And then after that, just to rattle some names off, Kevin Porter, Jr., Chris, DeJante Murray, Sheigildes-Alexander, Dearon Fox, Zion, Chris Boucher, O.G. Annan, Obey, Derek White, John Collins, Christian Wood, Nikiel Alexander Walker, then Darius Gall and John Morant. So now we're at, you know,

15 guys deep here. Of those, I mean, Michael Porter Jr., I'd say is rightfully the favorite. Would you agree on that? Rightfully the favorite? Yes, especially in the absence of Murray. Yes. Yeah, I mean, right, even though he may not be the guy who wins it there, rightfully the favorite. I think, I think John Moran. John Moran scored 47 points on the road in a playoff game. Most improved. Okay.

Yeah, but what if he goes from 19 points for game? 60, 60 on the road in a playoff game. But what if he goes from like 19 and 7 to 26 and 9? Yeah, it could. Yeah, now you're getting excited. Yeah. Go job. It's not incomprehensible.

I think Darius Garland's a good one. I mean, they have Kuzman here. I don't see that with Washington. Bradley Beale's going to score more than 31 points per game this year if he successfully extends his range. As he said, he's going to. But Bradley Beal, he's not a most improved guy. He's improved every year of his career.

Like he's like the eight year most improved player of the year, even though he can't get it for one individual year. They have Tyrese Halliburton on here. That's a solid one. DeAndre Aiton, maybe if we, saw more offense from him. I just don't see it. But I don't know. I like the ones you gave Chris. I think some pretty good ones. I do. That's crazy that the first guy I came up with is Terrence Bannon. It wasn't even like a 50 second on there. I really like him. Like he

strikes me as a kind of guy that I think could end up being a real player. Yeah, I like that one too. That's a good one. All right. What else we got, Sasha? From Matt in Halifax, Nova Scotia. As a diehard Raptors fan, I was wondering what your expectations for the Raptors are this upcoming season. Well, we talk about variance, right, Kev? I mean, it's not like they are

without talent, but it's so hard to know in the absence of we have gotten so used to watching the Kyle Lowry Raptors. He has been a mainstay for that organization for a long time. I do like Van Vlead a lot.

I think probably people are a little too down on Siakum, but that whole Seacom getting into it with Nick Nurse and them not necessarily being on the same page. Like you do worry about that a little bit when considering that's one of your best players. Don't they got decent return? At least they got some players for Lowry in the deal. I would just say,

I think you're fighting for a playoff spot. That's what I'd say. So you're fighting for a playoffs spot. I expect them to be better, Chris. Having all of their games in the road last year and imagine it's more difficult than we can even quantify in terms of how they produced.

So now being back in a regular rhythm, being back in Toronto should help that team out. My expectations for them are, will they innovate? Will they be a team that does some weird, wacky stuff out in the court? Because you look at their rock, They just drafted Scotty Barnes.

That's representative of what their roster looks like. These are the players on their team that are listed between 6'7 and 6 foot 9. And let me state, they have nobody taller than 6'9 on their roster. Nobody, but they have a bunch of guys, 6-7-6-9, Wantanabe, Siakum, Gillespie, Decker, Boucher, Burch, Bantan, Bunga, Achua, McIuluk, Barnes, Annanobi. They have a heck of a lot of players. that are big wings.

I'm sorry. I take it back. I take it back. After you release off the roster, I tell you, they're not fighting for a playoff spot. They don't have enough good players. You don't trust Kim Birch?

What? For what? Trust him for what? I agree. I agree. Just to play ahead of Moamba. That's all. Oh, I mean,

to pick apples off my tree. I mean, he's a tall guy, but other than that. Ken Birch is a solid player. whatever. He's a solid player. Are you now?

Are you now on my team, Zach Lois is going to be against you now? Zach Lois going to be on me. But you just listen off their roster. They don't have enough good players. They don't. That's not. Yeah. I mean, if I'm a Raptors fan, I'd be happy being in the lottery again.

I'd be very happy being in the lottery once again. Get ready to be happy. But you have to admit, though, isn't what they're doing at least. intriguing with all of those guys, none of whom are true bigs. Birch and Boucher and Achua are not true bigs, neither is Scardy Barnes. These are a bunch of big forwards, big wings, and then Van Vleet and Dragich and Flynn and Trent in the backcourt. But everybody else is a big wing or a forward.

This team could be like pretty funky with the types of lineups they put out there. And this is a fun thing. The Barnes thing is super fun. Oh yeah. You know what I mean? Like if your team's not going to be that good, you get so excited to, there's nothing better than having a good rookie. And if Scotty Barnes is really good, then you get to tune in every night. You're so excited to just watch Scotty Barnes.

And so I don't think that this is a team that's going to win a boatload of games. Yeah, they might be better than the 27, you know, that they got last year. But I do think the Barnes thing will be fun. If I'm a Raptors fan, that's what I would look forward to. I've lived that life. And you want this to look. This is about did we just draft a guy that's got a chance to be a big star in the league. And those first are 82 games to watch that kind of, you know, where you get those glimpses can be an absolute blast.

And so that's what I'd say. But they ain't fight for me. You just list that off. jeez that roster is a little bleak fight for a plan how about the plan 10 seed you don't think even the 10 seed Chris really no no

they're better than you think no they're not 10th seed not there not even I'm saying play in bubble the 10 seed play in bubble you don't even see that I do I think they're going to be better than people think I see the I see the raptors ranked in the 20s and a lot of power rankings Put them a little higher than that.

Late, like, give me late teens for Toronto, late teens. No way. All right. Good disagreement. But that's a ridiculous.

That's a ridiculous. And by the way, I'm speaking of the top of my head, I haven't done my powering. Maybe it turns out. When you put that 26th, I'm busting your ass. But bottom line,

though, is I think they're going to be more competitive than you give them credit for. They get a lot of talent on that roster. We're going to find out how much does Kyle Lowry's leadership and presence make a difference with the success of that team? Because a lot of their younger guys could get better too. O'GN and Obie's gotten better every year.

Seacom could make a leap forward after kind of stagnating. Van Vleet could get even better. I mean, it's possible. Okay. Scotty Barnes could be really good as a rookie, Chris. He could. That's what I would look forward to if I'm arrived to. Scotty Barnes.

I'd get a Scotty Barnes jersey and just be ready to watch him play every night and be excited about it. I agree. all about Scardy Barnes. And also being in the lottery, it's not such a bad thing. All right. All righty. We have one from Ryan. Which revenge game are you looking forward to this coming season?

I am looking forward to Rick Carlisle against Luca and the Mavericks. Oh, that's good. I mean, look, the answer is Ben Simmons. Whatever he's fucking. I mean, the Ben Simmons Philly game is like, we got to get that on national television for certain. no matter who he ends up playing for. So that's the big one.

I mean, there's not that money. You typically want to find guys that are like discarded. You know, so they got some reason to be mad at the former team. So, I mean, I guess like, I mean, it's not going to be like revenge. Breaking news, Chris. Breaking news. The Pistons are signing Luca Garza to a new two-year contract.

Let's go. Corey the Sham Sharania. The revenge game of the year is Luca Garza every night facing the teams. Yes. Luca Garza versus the league. Luka Garza versus the world. Yes.

That's it. That's the revenge game I'm looking forward to. Draggich. I mean, they replaced him with Lowry. So I guess like, you know, Draggich going back to Miami. Westbrook, he's a red ass about everything.

So he'll probably try to put up 50, 20 and 20 in Washington. You know, playing against them. But I don't know. It's usually something like that. Like the guy that, like, they didn't want anymore or they thought they'd be better off without. And so that's the guy that wants to come back and have the huge game. I mean, little Stephen Adams, Jonas Fallon Judas Showdown.

They got moved for each other. I don't know. I guess Lonso and the Pelicans. I don't know. That Carlis one is good. The Carlisle one's good. I think that's the best one. Yeah.

Because you know he'll, he will prepare for that game for two weeks. Oh yeah. There's nothing more than he wants to walk up and see Mark Cuban disappointed. We're going to see the Luca defense. That's going to be revealed. Luca's going to get like eight points on two of 25 shooting. We'll see.

And her all about. Or maybe. Haralababal will be sitting in the front row in a broad in Jersey. Heralabob, yep. News came out this week. He is no longer with the Mavericks officially. Reported that back in June, July, whatever it happened. I think he's going to be okay.

He owns like half the bitcoins in the world, I think. Yeah, I think he'll be fine. It'll be all right. Yeah. What else we got, Sasha? Okay. This is from Nate and St. Sydney. I listen to a ton of NBA podcasts, and I hear a lot about aggregators and podcast hosting.

They don't want to be aggregated, plus a sense of fear of aggregation. I've looked it up, and I still don't understand why it's such a big deal to NBA media commentators. Can you share your perspective on how it impacts you and why is it such a big deal to the point that podcasters constantly reference it? Oh, I think that's fair. Okay. Um, I'll speak on this and then you tell me what you think, Kev. It is two things. The fear of being taken out of context, right? That it's not all that when you are having a long form conversation in podcast form,

that you are, that many of the things that get spoken about, that if you just extract a sentence and use it as a headline, it doesn't give the full context to what was actually the content. conversation within a podcast. And so that is one of the fears that that happens to you. And the second thing I would say, and this is probably more important, is that we talk to people all the time throughout the league. If you're in this business, I'm a game throughout the entire year. And I will talk to different people about what's going on with an organization or I will talk to people about and then I will share what I have heard on on this podcast.

I don't go there and go on Twitter and go everywhere and say source, you know, the Knicks don't like Frank Nilekeena or whatever, you know what I'm saying, or whatever it may be. And and then you say those things and sometimes if you don't, you aren't necessarily reporting it as news. but what you're saying is here's chatter around the league here's what people have spoken about and then when it gets aggregated it is reported it's almost as if it's hard news you know what I'm saying yeah and that's where that is the difference between conversing you know like you and I do

about things and breaking news and sometimes the conversations or things that take place are then almost described as breaking news when that is not what they were intended to be. Yeah. I mean, I think what's changed with podcasts, you know, compared to like written word, you know, or even just tweets, sometimes like podcasts, it's fun to talk about what you're hearing could happen rather than what will happen. Like I think I love, and I've always loved since I was young discussing the rumors and the, you know, the reports of what could happen.

there because I think like sometimes I don't do a lot of reporting. I dip my toes in it here and there when I when I know I have something solid with what could happen because I love talking about the theoretical possibilities of stuff that could happen. I think that's important because it shares how teams are thinking and what they're angling for and what they're trying to do even if what's mentioned or discussed doesn't actually happen. It gives you an idea of how they're thinking about their roster and how they're reviewing the league. And so I find that fascinating to do. But sometimes if it gets aggregated, it can turn into, like you said, a report.

And that change and that can like create, you know, problem-wise, like, as, you know, a writer that can create a perception like, oh, that person was wrong about that. When really it's like, no, we're just discussing and just talking about it. I think overall, though, the aggregators, I have no issue with what they do. I think if you say something on a podcast, it's free game. I just think a lot of times aggregators can do a better job at framing stuff. Or, and this is true, not just for like, you know, hoops rumors, but like even ESPN when they take a quote card from a podcast and don't, you know, really give credit.

I think giving credit can be done better by aggregators and that would smooth out relationships with a lot of the reporters who get pissed off about it. And I think they can also do a better job of framing and contextualizing what is said on podcast, what is written in articles and whatever else. And that would smooth out the relationship because I think the overall importance of aggregation, it's important because sometimes people don't follow 800 different reporters. They follow the one at NBA Central account and get all their news from there. And that's a way for your news and your reports and what you're hearing about and all the

work you're putting in to get distributed out to the world. And so I have no issue with it. I just think the process can be done better. And that's all. I'll give you, for everybody that might be even a bit confused about what we're saying. Let me give you an example. So let's just say. Something earlier this year.

Yeah, but if some team comes to town next week and I'm talking to some people that are associated with the team and they tell me, you know, I think we're going to end up moving John Smith. And then you and I are talking about something a week later, I'd be like, you know, when they came to town, I talked to somebody, you know, with that organization that thinks that they could move John Smith. And then you and I are talking about something a week later, I'd be like, you know, when they came to town, I talked to somebody, you know, with that organization, they thinks that they could move John Smith. Well, now all of a sudden what happens is somebody puts the headline, somebody puts the tweet, somebody puts everything,

and it says, Chris Vernon from the ringer says, you know, so and so, whatever. The calves are looking to move John Smith. Be like, well, hold on now. You can't trade John. Smith. Yeah, you know what I mean? No training them. Don't do it. That's the concern. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

Another real life example happened on the real ones podcast with Raja Bell, especially if you are like a basketball player on a podcast, you are going to get aggregated. It's just going to happen. So Raja Bell on a video that was framed as like real or fake title contenders as a former Phoenix Sun said that the Phoenix Suns were not, were fake contenders, which they ended up being, by the way. And every single Suns fan lost their goddamn mind. Right. Like they all lost their minds and were like, how could you say this? And it was, that's a situation where all the context is stripped because if you watched a video where we have a binary created in this video of like real

or fake, do you think they're going to win? Like, do you think they're going to win? No. And then also the context of like, the Lakers were not injured. And like, there were teams that weren't injured at that time when he said it. So everybody just lost their mind and like every single website puts that. I take major issue with Raja saying the sons were fake. I take major issue with that.

The bright future sons, the bright now sons are not fake. Sorry, Raja. I just mean like, it's the same thing where he like, he did say that, but also it's completely stripped of context when it like gets put out. I'm going to aggregate him. I'm aggregating him. That was me, actually. I'm the one who tipped them off.

Well, and let's be honest, because the people that need to worry about it more are people that are infinitely more famous than us like Bill Simmons or Arroyo Rissillo. And the guys that are reporters like a Brian Winhorse who. everything he says, you know what I mean? And Wendy's probably the one who says it more than anybody. Yes. About the aggregators.

Everything he says is reported as Brian Winhorse reports or Brian Woodhors says. And it's like, damn, man, that would be a frustrating existence. It's also why basketball players are often don't feel as comfortable coming on podcasts

if they don't like really know the host or like it's another basketball player hosting the podcast because they are worried about something they say getting aggravated and taking completely out of context in a podcast. And that's why their PR teams oftentimes will be like, don't ask you about this, don't ask about that. And that's why some of these interviews are so boring and plain Jane because their PR teams won't allow the interview if they get asked those questions. I mean, like it's it's difficult and,

media in that sense when it comes to interviewing players, but not always. A lot of the time players can come on and shoot the shit and talk about whatever it is that they want to talk about. Especially on the Real On the Rear and the NBA show with Rushabell and Logan Bergdok. They're open, talk openly and have good conversation. I think that openness and honestly is better instead of micromanaging and worrying about what aggregators are going to do and how people are going to react for one day. Everything comes and goes on social media nowadays.

It doesn't mean anything. It means zilch. Doesn't mean anything. All right, let's knock out one more before we get out of here. Give us a good one. I think we can get to these last two. I think DeVerno, this one's for you.

It's from Austin in Los Angeles. This one's for Vernon. What is the origin of the term rat team? I've been dying to know this since I started listening to the podcast years ago. So there is a guy who I have befriended over the last decade or so. His name is Alan Boston.

Alan Boston was one of the greatest college basketball gamblers ever. There's, in fact, a book written by Chad Bilman that features Allen called The Odds. There's a documentary called The Best of It, which is really good, and it focuses on Alan. But he has been a lifelong college basketball gambler. Lived in Vegas for many, many years. And I came across Alan as this incredibly impedionated guy. and would bring him on during conference tournament and NCAA tournament time, you know, and still do to this day in the spring.

One of my absolute favorites, because he is a true authentic. And I took it from him. I took it from him. He would say that. I mean, he's been saying it for years, and I loved it so much. And so I started calling people rat teams too. But that is a credit to Allen Boston. Yep.

It's a great. It's a great term. Every time you say it, it brings joy to my soul, Chris. Yeah. So that's a, that's a, and it's an homage to Alan, my buddy, who, who used to say that. It was talking about these rat teams. And every time he said it, I loved it. And so I was like, you know what?

I'm a start calling it. It's a great description when you're trying to talk about somebody that ain't worth shit. All right. All right. Last one. Okay, last one. And then this one is for Kevin from Michael.

Shout out KOC for being a Mount Joy fan. They were my first concert. What is your favorite Mount Joy song? My favorite Mount Joy song is probably dirty love off their first Elm. But the truth is it's the first three songs off that Elm. I'm your wreck, dirty love, silver lining. It's just an outstanding opener to an. album. I'm excited for them. They're on tour now. I just saw them play in LA a couple of weeks ago.

It was my, it was my last concert before the pandemic. And it was my first concert, I guess during the pandemic post vaccine. So saw Mount Joy in like December 2019 and then saw them last month. And now they're on tour again. I think they're in Milwaukee or Chicago or something like that this weekend. So yeah, shout out to Mount Joy. Sixers fans in that band. They're all stressed out. They're worried about the Ben Simmons situation. They're on stage, you know, fingers shaking, worried about Ben checking their phone between songs.

Looking for that Wojbom. Yeah. They're great. I love Mount Joy. Awesome band. Awesome band. Great people too. Well, by next week,

at the beginning of next week, teams are going to be having their media days. They're going to start their training camps. And then we have preseason basketball right around the corner. Thanks to our executive producer, Sasha Eschal, as always, Kevin. and I will talk to you next week. I look forward to it.