The Mismatch - Luka’s Laker Debut, Mavs Karma, Depressing Magic Free Fall, and Better Off Without Mark Williams?

Episode Date: February 11, 2025

Verno and Jacoby recap Luka Doncic’s Laker debut and explain how Luka and LeBron can successfully coexist (00:46). Mark Williams is headed back to the Hornets after the Lakers failed his physical, but the guys debate whether the failed deal could actually be beneficial to the Lakers (08:10). They then discuss the massive amount of bad luck that Mavs have gotten since trading away Luka (22:53), and how Jimmy Butler has impacted Steph Curry and the Warriors since his arrival in the Bay Area (31:17). Next, Verno shares why he was extremely impressed by the Thunder after they blew out the Grizzlies over the weekend, as well as the disappointing free fall from the Magic (38:32). Finally, the guys applaud Hubie Brown for calling his last game at 91 years old, Jacoby shares why he’s a fan of the Clippers signing Ben Simmons, and more possible Joel Embiid excuses (54:36). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Chris Vernon and David Jacoby Producer: Jessie Lopez Social: Keith Fujimoto Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey y'all, Sirot Sohi from The Ringer here, and I wanted to let you guys know about a new show that I'm hosting. The Ringer WNBA show. We're going to be talking about all the biggest personalities, breaking down and analyzing the latest happenings that make the W so fascinating, featuring some of the best guests and experts from around the league. Tap in with us on the brand new Ringer WNBA show feed on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to The Mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon. And join me to see us every Tuesday from The Ringer.com. as Dave Jacoby Jacoby.

Duo with more potential. You and I or Luke and LeBron. You and I. I think so too. Now, LeBron and Jordan Goodwin? There was a lot of Jordan Goodwin last night. Big debut. Ripped his mask off.

Mask on Mask off, Future vibes. Big debut for the Lakers' big acquisition, Jordan Goodwin. Jordan Goodwin. Obviously, the headline was that Luca Donchich made his debut. for the Los Angeles Lakers. 14 points, five rebounds, four assists,

five of 14 from the field. And had a couple of highlights, a couple plays where he and LeBron connected, had his patented step back three from the top of the key, right, a little reminder of what Luca Dodgich is in spurt. You know, they've got a good break here where they're not having to walk into any kind of

lion's den before they get the full All-Star break to be able to get you, all right? You're going to be able to get this thing all in motion and then come out of the All-Star break, totally refreshed with a theoretically healthy Luca Donchich, who is going to be more used to maybe get a couple of practice with those guys, certainly get a few game reps against a team that's not going to cause you a tremendous amount of problems. And that was kind of step one where they got to play against the Jazz.

last night who I believe they get to play against the game. Yep. Yep. It's two games against the Jazz and the All-Star break. Right. It's great. Great welcome to the Lakers for Luca Donchich. And so I've been curious to see how this would work from like a basketball standpoint with the two of them just sort of being ball dominant, quote unquote, heliocentric players. And they, that's a good strategy for them when you have them because they are so good. And listen, there's one game against the jazz. But watching it, you're like, oh, I see how. this works. This works really, really well.

When they play together, when they stagger. I almost felt like their passing was on display in a way that it's not so much like what Luke and LeBron are going to do together. It's just like watching Rui Achaimora just get like butt-naked corner three after butt-naked corner three

and making Jackson Hayes look like, like, you know, Lob City, DeAndre Jordan. And it was just like the first play of the game was a lob to Jackson Hayes. Then they would back-to-back LeBron to Hayes and Luke good to Hayes. And you can really see that with what they're going to do is make the role for every other Laker that much easier. It's going to make it easy on everyone else. Just do what you

do and everything else will work itself out. And I loved it. I was I was really enjoying it. And that is going to be the trick though, right? Can those others step up? Because it's cool to watch and think about it through the course of the regular season and the last 30-something games. But we think about them through the prism of, do they have a chance at the West? Do they, is this a team that we could foresee in a Western Conference finals? Of course, with the extreme talent level of adding Luca Donchich,

and we thought this with the Mads. If you've got Luca Dantz, you've got a chance every year. Okay, he's that good. But what we know is in the same way that you had team, Loading up on Luca teams would load up on Kyrie and then it had to be Derek Jones Jr. It had to be PJ Washington like these are the guys that decided and so the Rui Hachamuras of the world the Austin Reeves of the world you know whoever is playing in those other roles that are alongside those two because what you can trust and believe is that those teams are those guys are going to

command two right they drive now you're commanding a second to defender. And so you're going to have guys that can finish at the rim and then you're going to have guys that can knock down open shots. But you better believe when we get to the playoff time, there's going to be a ton of those. And it's going to, it's going to be can Austin Reeves and Rui Hachamura and the rest of those guys knock down those available open shots. And it's, I think the biggest question is they, I think they're not a dream duo because there is a lot of redundancy and what they do and how often they have the ball and they're both so good at it. But what it really is, it's interesting, is they are just so thin up front.

We're going to talk about the Mark Williams things later. But, like, Mark Williams is not, like, defensive player of the year candidate, like Anthony Davis is. So they're so thin up front. And when you look at the Western Conference playoff matchups, you look at like a Yokic or even a Zubach, and you're like, well, I can't imagine a world in which they even slow down opposing centers that can score. but then you look at Lucas LeBron you're like, well, I can't imagine a world of which their opposing wings can slow them down.

One of the things to remind me of, and this is a very obscure, strange comparison, but I'm going to make it anyway, especially early in the pod, just to turn off as many listeners as possible, is we used to rent like the original UFC fights. And before the current UFC, it would be like a sumo wrestler against like hoist Gracie.

Or they'd have like a Canadian lumberjack against like a boxer with gloves on. And it was just these like mix of style. where I was with my friends on the couch, he'd be like, he's a sumo wrestler. Like, how is he going to lose to 140 pound dude? And then you're like, well, how is the 140 pound dude who's been training his entire life to choke people out,

going to lose to a fat guy that can't catch him? And that is how I feel about the current Lakers construction against these potential playoff matchups. It's just the styles are so dramatically different in what they are good at that you just don't, it's hard to predict how it's going to play out. Does that make any sense of all? And the other thing, and again, we're going to get to the Mark Williams thing because that was a deal they really wanted to make is, to your point, they can't really go big and supersized, but they don't have some kind of great small option.

Like they don't have that gnaws read at the five kind of option that they can just go with. And so that's going to be the interesting one. You're right? Because one of the things you can do is, okay, you're big, we're going to go small, and you can't match up with this. But I don't know what their great, small option is that doesn't get them demolished on the board. 20 second timeout. They always have a you can't match up with this option.

They have Luca, Donchich, and LeBron James. They always have a you can't match up with this option. I'm talking about up front. It's like Reeves, Rui, Reeves Rui LeBron Donchich Like what are you going to do DFS? Who's rebounding?

No, who's missing shots On either side? That's what I'm saying. That's the whole like silly example about the UFC thing Is you're like the sumo wrestler against the Jiu-Jitsu master. They're just not it's not boxer against boxer. It's just like there's such different strengths

that is going to come down to fourth quarters and I believe in Luca Donchich and LeBron James in those scenarios. I just do. Let's talk about the trade that did not happen, which was they did not attain Mark Williams, though the last time we spoke, we talked about them attaining

Mark Williams. And then over the weekend Charlotte Hornets, after the trade was reportedly rescinded, Charlotte Hornets put out the following statement. We are excited to welcome Mark back to our Hornets organization. After the other team aggressively pursued Mark,

we made the difficult decision to move him. We have always held great respect for Mark's talent, work ethic, and character. We are thrilled to see him rejoin our roster as a dynamic presence at the starting center position. His return strengthens our team, and we look forward to the impact he will make on and off the court. I mean, I couldn't even finish it without laughing.

I mean, this is outrageous. It is an outrageous thing to put out that statement. And then it is followed with the report last night that the Hornets are fighting. They're exploring, exploring ways. I don't even know what the ways are. Like, I know you are, but what am I? Like, no backsies? Like, what ways are they exploring?

I mean, they're trying to say that, hey, we need to get a, like, this getting called off for a physical is not right. I understand that, but like, I think that's going to be very difficult to prove. I think that's going to be very difficult to look at Mark Williams and be like, perfectly healthy. No issues here with this professional basketball player. Never had a problem with him once. He's Bale Bridges. Forget the, forget the physical. There might, I thought, you know, all right, look, you probably failed a physical, right?

But was there, it dawned on me, was there a moment? You know, Rob Polinka likes, he likes coffee, right? We know that. He pulled off the biggest deal in NBA history over a coffee that maybe Rob Polenko was out with a coffee with, say, a friend. And the friend said, hey, man, I saw that Mark Williams deal. Rob Polico's like, yeah, that was great, huh? He's like, why would a rebuilding team trade a,

you a guy that is averaging almost 16 and 10 at a block of game and is less than 25 years old and is their starting center. Like, why would they do that? And then Rob Poling is like, oh, well, uh,

they told me they really believe in Diabate and they want to build around him. And then the more the guy questioned him over coffee, Rob Poling is like, wait, hold on. Did I get the booby prize? And they're like, let's, we got to run a physical on this guy. And then they on the physical and they're like, oh, no wonder they traded a 20-something year old up-and-coming center

for a re it made no sense on the surface that they would move him unless, of course, they thought this guy has already missed 60% of the games that he was supposed to have played already in his NBA career. And this is not. This is the same way that the Dallas Mavericks in most of our minds, foolishly are shorting Luca Donchich, this is just like, hey man, we're trading you damage goods. And now, and now they're mad

they got found out for trading of damage goods. And I honestly don't, I said on this podcast last episode that I don't think that Mark Williams is the answer to the Lakers problems, right? I think that he is more of a problem than an answer to the problems, even when he's healthy. But it is, my

question for you, which I'm sort of going back and forth, on is like, are the Lakers in a better position? Sort of next season, long term, with Dalton Connect and that pick and the swap, sort of getting that package back and saying, you know what, we've got Jackson Hayes and like whatever else we'll figure it out this season, but we can, this offseason make moves that will put us in a better position moving forward as a franchise. I mean, for sure, if he's damaged goods, of course, you're, in a better position. If you told me Mark Williams that this has all just been bad luck and he's

not just a tragically injury prone guy and is going to be able to have and fulfill his potential and have a long career, then it's great trade. But the circumstances are the circumstances. And I don't know if you saw, and I know they've gone out of their way to say, it's not the back, it's not the back. But you saw the Jared Greenberg thing that took place over the weekend, right. Jerry Greenberg came out, who's an outstanding NBA reporter, Mr. Crunch, Captain Crunch,

I think they called him last night on Crunch Time. Game Crunchy. Greenberg comes out, and he's got this report that Charlotte is even scared that the guy can't get in the wait room because of his back. And then comes out and says,

I hold myself to the highest standard that was inaccurate information. and I'm sorry, it'll never happen again. That was a bad report. Like, that all happened. His report and that apology happened over the weekend. And then the trade was rescinded. And I was like, holy hell, he was right.

And then they went out of their way to say, it's not his back. It's not his back. It was his foot earlier. But I'm like, hold on. Look, even if he says that wasn't right information, right? That feels like somebody called him and been like, dude, right? It feels like it. How else does he take back the report?

Right. Somebody told him that. He said that was not correct information. But who told him it wasn't correct information? Right. Somebody, I mean, obviously. So he issued, like, you can go look it up on Twitter. He issued an apology for the report.

And then the trade ended up being rescinded. And I was like, oh, wow. Like, he said they are scared for him. to go in the white room. He said that. Do you know one thing I loved last night was just watching Dalton Connect in street clothes, just like on the bench,

just kind of there? You know what I mean? It's just like, well, and the announcers was like, I got in late last night, so he's not dressing for today. Just thought they were giving some rest. NBA players get in late last night

all the time throughout the season and have no trouble dressing for games. It was just too awkward and weird and the idea that he could potentially get injured in the middle of all of this is just like no chance he's playing in that game. And you have no idea how awkward that truly is. Years ago, I used to be in the locker room every night, pregame and post game. And trade deadline comes around.

And Memphis, I break a story right at the trade deadline that Memphis is trading OJ Mayo to the Indiana Pacers for Josh McRoberts and a first round pick. Oh, I remember McRoberts. Okay. So that's what that's what the trade is. Report the trade. Trade goes through all the thing. So I am actually, at that point, I was doing afternoon radio. I start getting these texts and they say the deal's falling through. So what do you mean the deals falling through? Now this is like imagine this is getting reported at like 205 of a two o'clock deadline.

Okay. I'm on the air. I'm freaking out. I'm like, what are you talking about? The trade's not happening. Like, trades to trade. They traded OJ Mayo for Josh McCrard. Like they had already told OJ. Mayo.

They'd already told him you've been traded to the Indiana Pacer. Okay. And so he gets traded and the NBA comes back. People could go back and find this story. They ruled that the facts. That's how long ago this was. You had to fax it. in. The facts came in after the deadline. It was like 201 or 202. So the facts came through after the

deadline. Therefore, the trade is nil. So now you have to go back to this guy and tell him, no, actually, you're not being traded. Like, he's already figured out, like, all right, I'm having to move to Indiana. I'm having to do this, whatever. Man, I mean, the whole rest of that time was so, awkward. Like every time I was around him, every time I saw him, I was just like, it's just bizarre. And by the way, you want to hear some crazy NBA history on this? Here's like one of those Paul Harvey, the rest of the stories. So that deal gets rescinded, right?

Josh McRobber to the first round pick. Fast forward to before the draft, Indiana trades their first round pick to San Antonio. for George Hill. And San Antonio with that pick takes Kauai Leonard. It could have been OJ Mayo for Joshua Roberts and Koff. I mean, of course,

the Grizzly sucked in drafting so bad. They would never draft their Kauai Leonard. But it is kind of crazy in retrospect that that ended up being the player. And the deal just didn't happen. And the point is once that happens, like, you just feel weird around

Dalton Connect. And Dalton The neck feels weird around everybody else, and everybody can say everything they want to, and Charlotte can put out this cockamamie, you know, a statement and whatever. But, you know, it's just with these guys, they got egos, and it's such like a breach of trust. Like, no matter what you say, it's like, bro, you didn't want me. And also it's, you know what? We rescinded the trade, so you're back. But we're just going to use that same package to get a better, healthier center in three or four months.

So don't get too comfortable. Don't get too comfortable because you're still going to get traded, just not to there now because we didn't like the return. But hit some shots for us in the meantime, please. Do not buy rent. Here's what I want to say. There was a brilliant PR move that's not being discussed today, which is just chef's kiss perfect. This release came out. The day of his L.A. debut, quote, the Luca Donchich Foundation is donating $500,000 towards the wildfire relief efforts in L.

also promises to help, quote, rebuild courts, playgrounds and fields that were destroyed because every kid needs a safe place to play. This is brilliant. First of all, it's always good to help people in need, right? That is good, right? I mean, you know, I can be negative and skeptical and all of that, but like, come on, there's tragedy all over the city that he is moving to and he is putting time, energy, and money into helping that, and that is great.

but I love that it comes out the day of the debut when they've got his number and his name on a t-shirt in every seat in the arena where ESPN is changing the entire schedule of the evening to show the game where LeBron is like, we'll introduce you last. It was the whole Luca Laker day, and Luca's like, oh, by the way, Los Angeles,

I'm going to try to help fix your problems. It was just brilliant PR move from Luca right there. Love it. And look, shout out to the Lakers. That was unbelievable to have a shirt on every single. triangle chair. Oh, yeah. And LeBron Ward during warm-ups.

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However you want to play, now is the perfect time to join. The Super Bowl's over. We've all turned our attention to the NBA, and the NBA is on fire. We all know about the Luca trade and all the moves made at the deadline, and we'll be looking at some of the impacts of those moves. This Wednesday night, I've got my eye, of course, on Luca Donchard's. second game against the Utah Jazz. If you remember the game from Monday, it was interesting. I think that they will have no trouble beating the Jazz easily as they did last time.

And I would expect Luca to be even more effective, especially from behind the arc. There are many things that you can do. I bet LeBron James will have some assist. I bet Lucas production will go up. And I'm going to bet all of that on Bandwool. I'm also going to bet because Chris Vernon does not listen. to the reeds, I bet that his Memphis Grizzlies lose to the clippers. And I'm curious to see if Ben Simmons will be in a clipper uniform. And of course, we have Nicola Yokic and the Denver

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Got a gambling problem. Call 1-800 gambler or visit R.G. dash help.com. What did you think about Dirk? Dirk at the game with a friend of the pod, guest of the pod. The only guest we've ever had in the pod, Sasha Dantitch is dead. I think one of the worst feelings you could have

if you're a Dallas Meperk's fan, right? Because you know, because on one hand, you know Dirk's with you, he tweeted out, right? Look, I'm a mag for life, but this guy is my friend. And I think the reason it hurts

is because he, is representative of all of those fans as well. Like, Dirk is a diehard Mabbs guy. All of these people that are fans of that team have dedicated themselves to be die hard Mabbs fans. And it's like, but we don't, we don't wish him any ill will. Like, you're, you're not going to stop loving him. Like, there's no way to. No. There's no way to. You spent. so much time and he gave you literally no reason ever not to love him which leads to the intense vitriol that has taken place in Dallas they played a game last night and man things just they

can't get anything good to happen it's bad yeah on the other side of the trade is the Dallas mavericks you go back to Saturday they had the protest they had the calls for the owners to sell the team the owner takes his court side seat to raucous booze. It was reported. And then Anthony Davis makes his debut. He is as dominant as you could ever imagine and then heads back to the locker room. I mean, the full on Anthony Davis experience, which just makes you sick to your stomach again. I have been empathetic towards Mavs fans in this situation.

And it's like, you. can say, oh, well, that's just bad luck. But they traded for a guy that has been injury prone. He played a lot of games last year. But generally, over the course of his career, he has been an injury prone player, and they didn't even get him for two games before he got injured. And God forbid the guy has to have surgery, which is season ending. He looked so good in those three quarters.

Oh, my God. And I'm sitting there watching this. this is like how ridiculously overreactionary that we all are. I was like, all right, so what does this mean for the Western Conference? You know what I mean? I was sitting there being like, okay. I was like, I didn't really expect this wrinkle to like this puzzle piece to fit in here so well. I was like, maybe he should be playing with the center.

I was like, what does this do for their defense? Kyrie, it seems like his back is okay. I'm sitting there thinking all of that. And then to have like a non-contact just like grab my balls fall on the ground, to make this crazy face Anthony Davis thing. And then after the game to act like it's not that big a deal, and then we get a report that it's a month. And if they're in a very precarious position in the standings right now.

And then, of course, last night, they lose Gafford. So now they don't have AD, they don't have Gafford, they don't have live. Well, and a double whammy because they lose to one of their peers that is also going to be fighting for one of those eight through 10 spots. Oh, and so. Because that's what Sacramento is. Sacramento's right in that mix,

fighting with them for one of those 7, 8, 9, 10s, if you're, you know, if things really went well, the last 30-something games of the season. And they kicked the fans out that had the Fire Nico signs. I don't know if you saw this, but they did a karaoke during the game. And the guy started mouthing Fire Nico instead of the lyrics to the song. I mean, it is just hell. And then, of course, it looks like they're going to get this unbelievable. victory with Clay Thompson

hitting a game winner. Even before that, it was so weird. I know. So, DeMarra Rosen, the kings are up by two, and Rosen has the ball with 11 seconds left, right? And you watch so much NBA, you're like, oh, great. It's going to get fouled.

That was madness. That was truly madness. He dribbles the baseline and then shoots a layup through the underside of the hoop. And it was just like, of all the things to possibly happen in this to not go to the line, to not get a point, to not even like truly get a missed field goal in that spot.

And then the announcers are like, they show Clay Thompson. And so now the Mavs had the ball down to it. They show Clay Thompson. The announcers are like, wow, a huge splash would really change the energy in this building right now, literally. And it was like, and then Clay Thompson hits a three, and all that negativity, Gafford going down, fans getting kicked out, protest outside,

billboards being GoFundMead. All of that energy does change, just like the announcer predicted. And then they had De Rosen a double team in the corner, and he splits it and hits a floater. Splits it and hits a floater, rips their hearts out. Oh, and we got to mention, then they don't have a time out so they can't advance the ball. So Spencer Dinwiddie just goes and truck someone. Loved it. And the great totally anticlimactic review to end the game.

Right. Hey, how can we prolong the misery? So they review it for way too long, and then they're like, oh, guess what? You lose? The offensive, no, no, not just that. The offensive foul happened with 0.6 seconds on the clock. So everybody come back out here because we're going to inbound the ball. It's literally impossible to impact the play whatsoever.

There's nothing that could possibly happen that the Mavis are in. So we turn that into another 10 minutes of just nonsense. Can you imagine? I mean, it's the only way, I would rather lose by a thousand and then just be cursing Nico Harrison in my car all the way home as I'm driving home in the fourth quarter, then now you are prolonging my misery. And it's not only that it's, to be, to be that lose by a thousand and just to be hopeless is ultimately like better

than to be filled with hope and joy after all the vitriol just to have that rug taken out from under you. Now I do have a piece of sound for you which I found really fascinating coming out of last night's game. And that was Max Christie, who might be the most valuable asset

in this trade outside of Luca Duktujuch. Been playing well so far for the Mavericks. And his teammate Clay Thompson, remember they're playing the king. and Doug Christie is the opposing head coach. And after the game, Clay Thompson of the Mavs had this to say about his new teammate. Well, I thought that was Doug Christie's son for a year.

The thought crossed my mind when I saw something like that. I'm clarified that with them and they're not really. So you didn't know a whole lot of measurable, you know, six six off guards, so. I definitely thought Max Christie was Doug Christie's son for a very long time as well. I'm not afraid to admit that. Really?

Yeah. I just assumed so. They kind of look alike. Right. Another Christy. Yeah, it's in California for some reason that swayed it for me. You know what I mean? He was like on the Lakers and then I looked it up and I was like, oh, it's actually not.

And there's so many sons of ex-players in the league. You sort of like assume it with a name like Christy. Yep. But that was, I found that hilarious. Tough go for the Mabs, man. I'm sorry to all you fans. This has been, this has been hell. And then Gafford goes out last night.

It's like broke. And they like, well. Can you stop just stomping on them karma? Like, this is terrible. It's so bad. I mean, if you were thinking about it and you were just to list all of these events in order, I mean, it's like a worse, it's a worse case scenario for the Mavericks who are now, there's definitely a world in which they don't even make a playing game.

And then you're like, oh, we traded Luca Donchich. We traded Luca Dodgers for what? Now we're in the lottery? No, and part of that is because of a team. team that we're going to touch on next, that Golden State Warriors team who attained Jimmy Butler. And so far, things have gone exceedingly well since they attained Jimmy Butler. It's interesting last night, this lineup that they rolled out there, he has been, Kerr has been reluctant to play Draymond at center, but he played him at center last night,

along with Moody, along with Butler, along with Heald, along with Steph Curry. and it was the Janus Les Bucks, but Curry's caught fire recently heading into this All-Star break. He had 38. Jimmy Butler had 20 points, 9 rebounds, 6 assists, and he has gone to the free throw lines 28 times in two games. And that is enormous for them

because not only is it free points because he's a good free throw shooter, it's also giving them the opportunity over and over again to set up their defense. They get to set up their defense every time he goes to the line. And so one of the things we talked about with Jimmy Butler is, look, when Jimmy Butler is happy, Jimmy Butler is awesome. And watching him, he certainly has been mega engaged these first two games with them. and we said that it's not only the effect that you can have personally,

like as an individual, but also the effect that you can have on the rest of the team. Most importantly, does this give you a better Steph Curry? And I think at least through the first couple of games, now Curry was already going before this, but at least for the first couple of games, you can see it makes life easier on him. And so just by the acquisition, you are going to get a better curry.

It's going to have an effect on that. And so that is something that is not always taken into consideration. You look at the individual player and you say, here's what this guy is doing and here's the effect he's head on team and here's his plus minus or whatever else. But what kind of effect does it have on Curry and making his life a little easier because he doesn't have to see three friggin' players every time he tries to dribble. with the ball somewhere is watching this game it was it was closing the first half and then the second half the you know the the warriors ran away with it and won it pretty easily but one thing that came to my mind is just like everyone was having such a quintessential game for their role you know what i mean like draymond green like literally did not contribute offensively he had five assists i think

but like he didn't like make any shots or really do anything if he had like seven points or whatever and he had five steals and five assists and he was anchoring the defense exactly what you need Jimmy Butler, if you look at it like, ah, 20 points, 9 rebounds, 6 assists. Like, oh, great game. But it's like Jimmy Butler didn't shoot that well. He just got to the line over and over and over again because he's tougher and stronger and more determined than the defense. And you mentioned that they get to set up their defense,

which is a really nice byproduct of going to the line that much. But for me, it's almost like a psychological thing. You're just basically looking at the person across you and being like, you can't fucking stop me. You have to break the rules to stop me from scoring. And I'm going to spam it. I'm going to do it over and over and over and over. I'm going to put my head down, put my shoulder into you, and you're going to contact me

and I'm going to draw a foul over and over and over again. And, oh, by the way, here's Steph Curry hitting a bunch of threes, like getting on fire in the third quarter. And Quentin Post. Quinn Post. Oh, my God. If he didn't see this one, Quinn Post was hitting threes and blowing kisses to the crowd. It was ridiculous. Like he was Trey Young in the garden.

Yes. Like he's just like, just like ladies. And then he hit his third three and like he reacted. Remember when Luca hit the three on Gobert to win the game? That was basically the same thing that Quentin Posted. Fiss pumping. He's giving high-fives while his teammates. And you were talking about Draymond quarterback in that defense.

You know, this has given the opportunity by virtue of getting rid of some of your wings and Addig Butler. It has cleared the way for a guy that I was a big fan of coming out of the draft who has this just absolutely freakish wingspan, Moses Moody, who has just been like a bit player for them for most of his first couple years in the league. But I've always had a belief in, and you see them last night when they've got those wings, both big wings, and then you've got Dremont behind them. You mentioned that Dremont had the steals. Between Butler Moody and Dremont, They had 12 steals last night.

I mean, that's 12 possessions. And I think Dame had set a career high in turnovers last night. Yeah. Yeah. Because, I mean, it was all him. They had like 16 offensive rebounds. Yeah, I think he did all the hustle stuff. And Jimmy had like six offensive rebounds.

You know what I mean? It's again, it's like that, like, listen, I don't buy too much into like the woo-woo sort of like team personality thing. But with Jimmy, he does impact you and just he's just toughness. He's just getting to the line. He's getting offensive rebounds. And like between him and Draymond, it's just like another one of these teams where if you're like a team like the Grizzlies who are great in the regular season, and then you get these guys in like a two seven, just like you're screwed.

That's why I told you some of these teams made me less fearful of them as a high seed. Golden State was not one of those And right now, they have surpassed Phoenix where they are at 10, and they are, look, they're a half game back from Dallas. They are, if we're putting bets down right now, who you want the rest of the way, do you want Dallas or you want Golden State?

It's not even close. So that's a spot. What I'm saying is they're a half game back. I would not be surprised if they were able to catch the Clippers and T-Wolves group because they're two and a half back from those. The idea that they could play three games better than those teams down the stretch. The rest of the way is not crazy, yeah. No, no.

There's going to be some really impactful regular season games when we get down to like the last six or seven in the Western Conference in particular. It's going to get really, really good. And another team in this grouping, it's interesting. Like, if you look at the standings right now, the way I feel about the teams and where I would power rank them is very different than the way their wins, lost records are now, especially after the trade deadline. You look at the Spurs and what they've been able to do since adding Fox.

I wouldn't be surprised if they climbed over the sons and the kings. Would you? No, they're all in that same barrel. they're all in that same barrel. Now I'll tell you this, the only thing we know in the Western Conference is that nobody is going to catch Oklahoma City. No.

We've probably spent too long into this podcast for me to talk about it, but it did happen, you know, over the weekend. What happened? On Saturday night. What happened Saturday night, Vernal? Bro. Nick's loss?

Oklahoma City, the way they looked on Saturday night, Saturday night in Memphis without Dort, without Chet, without Kason Wallace, was absolutely unbelievable. They punked the Grizzlies. Like, they're up 21 at halftime of that game. Like, every offensive rebound, they were flying around for those offensive rebounds. they got Morant crazy frustrated to the point where he started one for nine

and I think he ended up like four for 17 but a couple of those are at the very end of the game after the whole thing was over. I was absolutely blown away at their level of intensity and then obviously on a night like that every offensive rebound they get there kicking it out and they're just burying everything they take. Caruso's making threes. Wiggins was out of control great. Wiggins has been on fire. Oh, my God. He's been on fire.

I did not see this coming from Aaron Wiggins. Look, I have been one of those that said still a young team, still going to have to take their lumps. Which about the Grizzlies or about the Thunder? Well, both. Okay, thank you. I was about to say, I don't know how far away from that group. No. Grizzlies are either.

No, I, like, what we know is that typically older veteran laden teams are the ones that are there at the end. but you could not have been more impressed than I was with them walking out of that arena. I mean, I was like, they were so much better than Memphis. It was embarrassing. They son the Grizzlies. The Grizzlies have officially been sunned by the season. And they're going to play two more times the rest of the way. But Memphis better figure out how to play against the best of the best teams because they have won 10 of their last 12 games.

But those two are getting run out of the building by the Knicks and getting run out of building by the Oklahoma City Thunder. Those are the, and those very well, again, it's one of those things where you sit back and you go, yo, you ain't close to Oklahoma City and you've got the Knicks. They beat the Celtics and that was a weird game, but they did beat the Celtics. And then you've got some of those teams in the east, Cleveland, etc. But in the Western Conference, as we have said, like, I've got to come in terms of it.

It is Oklahoma City and everybody else. Because I do think that that proved once you have a one and two matchup like that, because look, everybody's talking Houston, Houston, Houston, they lost Van Vleet for a couple of weeks and now they're down five. They're just falling apart. Yeah. I'll say that it's not what you do, it's how you do it. It's not losing twice to the thunder.

It's losing twice to the thunder like that. Smack. It's just like that. I think they're down 28 and 30. both of those games. Yeah. Smacked around. It's like this is,

it's not even competitive. Not even competitive. And that was without three of their guys. Mm-hmm. I mean, you got to mention that. They were without three of their guys. The first time they played Memphis was without seven guys and John

Cardinshaw started at Power Forward. So we're allowed to write that one off. You've mentioned that. There was no excuse. And that was walking your trap, take over your trap. And a tremendous amount of back to the drawing board stuff has to go on with Memphis.

Because in the end, you know, Gildes Alexander didn't have that great of a game. Not as he has against some other teams, but if John Morant's not going to be a superstar, you have no prayer against a team like that. And John Morant was not a superstar against the Knicks, and he was not a superstar against the Thunder. No. And that's what you have to have. And if, again, like, I think a lot of how successful the Thunder will be not just in the playoffs, but also the rest of the very good season, which isn't really a concern.

It's just like it's those guys. It's Wiggins and Joe. You know what I mean? It's just those guys are going to get open threes and can they knock them down? And how long will it take Chet to kind of come into form? I mean, he's played a couple games so far. And, you know, he's, he's rent-protecting. Because you know they're going to direct the shot.

Yeah. They're going to direct the shots. When we get to the playoffs, you're not going to get to have, you know, massive SGA, massive J-G. William generally, right? But those

Wiggins, Isaiah Joe's, Kesar and Wallace, Lou Dorts, like those are the guys that are going to have to step up. Crusoe. Crusoe is going to take

seven threes in playoff games because he's not going to be covered. Yes. And it's something. And they crushed the Pelicans last night. The Pelicans are like, just play out the string. Yeah.

Another one that's worth mentioning is the Cavs smacking around Minnesota last night because it's one of those things where you tune it on, tune it in. And Ant's been going crazy recently. He's had a lot of big games, but it's Ant and nothing else. It was, it was 16 to nothing to start the game. I know.

They scored 12 points in the first quarter. And Mowgli had 28 and 10, and Allen had 14 at 13. So that is 42 and 23 from the two big guys against what I was told is the best defensive center to ever walk the planet. So that was interesting. Well, you've been told that, but you know that's not true. And I will also say that the DeAndre Hunter fit, it's one game, not going to overreact. You know what I mean?

I will overreact to Luca in a Laker uniform because it's shocking. But DeAndre Hunter fit seems to fit, you know? It's like they need a wing that can play defense and hit shots. And that's what he does. Okay. When we need to mention a game that you and I were both watching last night because we were texting about it. Well, oh, no, wait, hold on. Give me a second to slander Julius Randall because he's been out.

And guess what? They put Nas Reid in the starting lineup. Oh, huh. Offense gets better. Defense gets better. Team gets better. Huh. Interesting.

I don't know. Interesting. Noz Reed needs to get a rebound. Interesting. What would you trade on the Grizzlies for Julius Randall right now? What? Would you trade Huff for Julius Randall straight up? I don't want Julius Randall.

What? I'm not watching. A game that you and I were both watching, this magic free fall is so depressing. Oh, God. They are, they are now. They're in ninth, Jacoby. They're in ninth.

They're playing Chicago in the play-in. Oh. This is just, I mean, and they lose to Atlanta last night, 112 to 106. Atlanta had that crazy Trey Young game winner, like that broke a losing streak that had lasted three weeks

it's a month for that it's like so they're no great shakes and by the way they just traded away D'Andre Hunter as well and it's like at the beginning of the season one of the things

that I said about the magic as well as at that time the Clippers and Golden State for that matter at the very beginning when we're talking about like the first 20 games of the season. We were looking

up and it was like, how are these teams doing it? Then you'd go and you'd look at the defensive metrics and you'd be like, oh, they're doing it with defense. And one of the things I said to you is I said, as the season goes on, you're not going to be able to do it with defense and depth in the

same way that you do it at the beginning of the season because inevitably, your depth gets carved down and your defensive intensity bringing it every single night. That is a really hard way to win games. And so you are going to have to be, because those teams were, it was odd, really good records, surprising starts the regular season, amazing defense, still really not very good offense. So they were winning with defense. And you look at

the magic, they're 30th in made threes, they're 30th in three point percentage, they are 28th in assists. They are 30th in point scored. They are 27th in field goal percentage. Like, it's not that their offense is bad. Their offense is horrendous. Horrible. Horrendous. And I texted you, I said, man, this team needs Sugs back. Like, it reminded me of watching Houston. And it's, again, the effect that the players have on the other players. You just need somebody to bring the ball up and organize the thing. Houston without family. We can run some actions off of it. I don't need the ball in. It's cool that Franz Wagner's got 37 points. I don't need him bringing up the ball and running point. Like, I need the ball. I need him coming off a screen and me delivering it

to him. And now I've got their defensive motion. I could kick out and maybe get an open shot. Or I could get a cut to the basket. Or I could get to the free throw line, whatever it may be. Like just having somebody to settle it down, organize it, because I watch that happen with Houston. and now there's a lot of Amman Thompson's got the ball. Amman Thompson's going to take the ball. Jalen Green's got the ball. Jalen. You see Just Van Fleet going out and the effect of the tad on Jalen Green.

Right? I don't need the ball. I get it. These guys need the ball, but I don't need you bringing it up. I want to deliver the ball to you. I don't want you to have it to start things off. And, man, I mean, obviously they need Suggs back in a,

in the worst way because then at least they might, might be able to have a passable offense and then play great defense, right? Because in the end, I mean, in this day and age in the NBA, you give up 112, you should be able to win. You should be able to get to 113, but they can't even get to 113. Like 106 felt like it took a massive effort to get to 106. Palos scoring 37, or France scoring 37, Palos scoring 31, and there's just nobody else. Nobody has scored.

How can you not get to 113 versus Atlanta? Yeah. That's crazy. And this was not, these two teams are two teams that I thought would overperform expectations. And I was watching this game last night being like, I hope neither of these teams make the playoffs. Seriously. Well, now you watch Atlanta and they get George Nying out there in crunch time. They don't have DeAndre Hunter anymore.

or they don't have Jaylon Johnson anymore. Like, they look a lot different than they did earlier in the year when some people were like, hey, man, maybe they could be dangerous. Remember they beat the Cavs twice and they beat the Celtics? Right. They beat the Knicks? Right. That was the Atlanta Hawks team that was dangerous.

This team is not dangerous. This team is a danger to itself. Trey had nine turnovers. And I'm sitting there watching the game. We're texting back and forth. He gets the switch, goes between the legs 47 times, dribbles it off his own leg. The other team gets a break. he goes for a steal at mid-court

instead of going back. Guess what, Trey Young, you're not going to get that steel against a professional basketball player in transition. It was just like, and then they give the ball

to Trey Young out of bounds again so he can do it again. I mean, I will say, there's going to come a time where you're going to get a lot more good day, good instant reviews

for Carislevert and for Terrence Man. Both of those guys gave them like good minutes, really good minutes for Atlanta last night. And so makes your wing rotation look a lot better than offensively than what they start with. Because, I mean, God, they started, you know, Dyson Daniels and Riseschet.

Good luck. No wonder Trey Young had nine turnovers. Yeah. Look, their starting lineup last night was Trey Young, Zachary Riseshay, Dyson Daniels, Aneka Okongwu, and Muhammad Ghee. Gie? Yeah. Familiar with his work? Who's going to dribble besides Trey Young?

Right. That was the point. Literally dribble. Carus Levert. Yeah, I know. Caris Levert. He'll, he'll,

put a shot up. The magic thing makes me depressed, though. It is. It does, because it was so fun. They were such a fun story. I know. They were playing so hard.

I remember that game when I left my pregnant wife who was sick to go to see the Magic Nix game? Because it was like two good teams in the Eastern Conference. I couldn't miss it. And I loved when they would win and the song, Orlando Magic,

Orlando Magic. Yeah, they don't get to play that anymore. Well, it's also like, what was the problem with the magic last year? They played great defense. They couldn't make any threes. It's like, oh, we addressed that. We brought in Contavius Caldwell Pulp.

Oh, what's the problem with the magic this year? They play defense. They can't make any threes. Well, all right. It's going to be interesting to see over the course of these last couple of days before we get to the All-Star break, you know, how many teams already have their bags packed? Because you do get some, you get some odd outcomes this week every year.

There's going to be some odd outcomes. I wouldn't be surprised if we see somebody get like a 50 or 60 ball like that. Like a lot of times what you'll see is like these teams that already have their one eye towards wherever they're going to get to go in a couple of days and sometimes you will get these either massive

scoring results from a team there's usually some record set it feels like and so you'll keep an eye out for somebody dropping a 50. Especially the teams that don't have all-star players on them. Right. You know what I mean? If you're an all-star

list team, there's a lot there's a lot of just a hotel booking, bagpacking. Yes. You know, there's a lot of just like, oh, this is exciting. I get my summer break.

It's like the last week of high school senior year, kind of. Let's try to find it. Let's see. So we've got Wednesday. You want to see like teams that are playing like, say like the Wizards, the Pacers play the Wizards.

Well, the stupid Lakers jazz game. That's like, that's the stupid Lakers. It's frustrating. I can't believe the Lakers got Luca Dodgers and they play the jazz toys in a row. row.

By the way, we're going to have that, we're going to have that Lakers Jazz game, but the ESPN game on Wednesday night is Warriors Mavericks. Yeah. Mabs. Golly, they can't even get out of town. Wouldn't you wish you were out of town for a while? At least get out of town. Can we at least like, I tell you, Nico might not even be at that game.

Yeah, Kyrie Irving had to cancel his plans. Now he's an all-star. He's like, wait, what now? Oh, I know. Gary Irving, and irony of all irony, he's replacing Anthony Davis. Yeah, Anthony Davis. Yeah, yeah.

That is rough. Also, one thing I do want to mention before we get out of here is a salute, homage, whatever word do you want to use to QB Brown, who called his last game after 90, at 91, years old, which is incredible to be able to call a game at 91 years old. He was one of, when I first started covering the NBA, the Grizzlies were coached by a guy named Sidney Lowe, and Sidney Lowe was fired, and Jerry West, who was the GM at the time, did one of the, it's hard to describe how insane this was at the time, because now a lot of

broadcasters are then ending up on the sidelines. But Hubey Brown had not coached in forever, like since they, 80s and he announces that Hughie Brown is going to come coach the team and I remember there was Earl Watson who was a player at the time who ended up becoming a head coach himself

Hubie Brown walked in he's like listen and he started yelling at all the guys and he said I'm only here because you guys are losers and there's a whole bunch of coaches and coaching staff and everybody else that's having to pick up, they're having to sell their house, they're having to move

their families, they're having to do everything because you guys weren't living up to expectation that that's why they brought me in because we've got to get up to snuff, blah, blah, blah, and I remember Earl Watson, I'm telling the story poorly, but Earl Watson said, bro, this guy is mean. And Hubey Brown got them in order, ran this 10-man rotation, won 50 games, one, of the year for the Grizzlies. And I went to every pregame show. I went to every post game.

And I learned more about basketball in that year than I think I've learned in the rest of my time combined. He is an absolute genius who always speaks like a clinician. And I was friends. His son was on his staff, Brendan Brown, who was a Knicks broadcaster, no less. And Brendan passed away like a month ago. suddenly. And Hubey has gone through hell over the course of the last like year. I mean, wife, daughter, son.

He lost all of them in the last year. I cannot imagine what he has been through trauma-wise. But had a profound effect on Memphis basketball and the Grizzlies becoming, instead of people talking about them moving, becoming a market that wasn't going to be able to survive, they won 50 games, they got to the playoffs, and then they started, then Mike Fertello came in after him, and they went to the playoffs three times in a row and kind of established themselves. And so I'll always have a super soft spot in my heart for Hubey Brown beyond the fact that he was a broadcaster,

because he was a great broadcaster for 60 years. Oh, yeah. He was crazy, right? He's good. Great. And I was kind of sad that it was his last game that he was. calling over the weekend, but I'm glad he got to do it. I'm glad he got to do it at 91.

I've got some bits of pieces of news that I'd like to get to before we wrap up here. Let me hear. Ben Simmons has a clipper. Oh, who cares? I kind of like it. Who cares? Who cares? I kind of like it.

In the words of like Francesa, who cares? I kind of like it. And here is why I like it. I'm so done caring about Ben Simmons. Oh, I am not done caring about Ben Simmons. I care about Ben Simmons now more than ever because once you get a defensive-minded athlete like that in the hands of the brilliant Jeff Van Gundy, who knows what they can put together in Los Angeles? Will Ben Simmons or Luca Donjuch have more impact in the Los Angeles

teams postseason? The better question is will Ben Simmons or Jordan Goodwin have more impact? Jordan Goodwin. call me when Ben Simmons has 18 points. That's what Jordan Goodwin had last night. Well, I also... He had 18 points and 9 rebound. Did he? He was doing stuff.

I'm sorry, 17, 8, and 2 steals. He was doing stuff out there. He played for the Grizzlies last year, Jordan Goodwin. Finally, a couple more. Let me hear it. Random Sixers game, National Televised. It's on Super Bowl Sunday, right? Sixers bucks.

Lisa Salters has a report. The announcers tossed to her. Joel Embedd is on the free throw line. Now, they're showing a head to toe shot of Joel Embed as this report is over the picture. And Joel In Beatt's left knee brace is just, it's huge. It's huge. It looks like, it looks like a cryo chamber thing when you see those people after they work out, they put those things on. It's huge.

And Lisa Salter says, I spoke with Joel Embed, and he says that. After the season, they might need another surgery to clean up the left knee. And it made me feel, because I knew it came directly from Embed, and Embed has taken a lot of shots this year, and he deserved a lot of it. It made me feel that it was just sort of like another excuse and another reason that it's not his fault. You know what I mean? It just felt like another, like, the problem is the surgery didn't stick, The problem is, these doctors aren't right.

Came back too fast. Didn't heal properly the last time around. Or it's because I give so much to the city. I sacrificed so much. I wanted to get back because I love the Sixers and I love Philadelphia so much that this is what happened. And I'm sorry. You know that Joker's knees, bone on bone. It's going to swell up forever.

Gone. I don't care what you do. You're going to have to cut off the leg and get a new leg. You want that thing to not swell up. Because that's just the way it's going to be. It's just going to be like that. It's tough. Joel and Bid and Zion Williamson get traded in this absence.

But we can talk about that in the opposite. I really thought that when you said, hey, a couple other tidbits, I thought you for sure were going to talk about Ryan Hollins. No. Ryan Hollins apologized. I know Ryan Hollins. I've worked with Ryan Hollins. Oh, I do too.

He tried to get me in trouble. Uh-oh. Yeah. What do he apologized for? He apologized to you? I didn't see this. This is new information. No,

I've not seen this one of the movie. You know what? I don't even care. I will tell this story. That dude called my program director and said, so Tony Allen is a regular guest on the show. This is years ago. This is when he was playing for Memphis.

Tony Allen was a regular guest on the show. And we brought back, like we would keep on signing Ryan Hollins to like these 10-day contracts. Okay? Keep bringing it back. Tony made the joke on the, the air. He's like, yeah, we call him the booty call. Every time we need somebody, we call Ryan out, right? So then we started calling. I always say you could be mean if you're funny. That's pretty

funny. Hilarious. So then we started calling him booty call and jazz. He calls my program director. And he's like, please have your host stop calling me booty call. I'm a grown man with a wife kid. And that is not. And then somebody like put it as one of his nicknames on basketball reference and he got mad. And I don't know. Like I was like, bro. have a sense of humor, right? And then I got blamed for it, even though it was Tony and whatever. Anyways, the point is, Ryan Holland,

that's kind of, Ryan Holland apologized this week because he said they got dick in the face on a play, I sent you this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He says, and he got dick in the face. And then

like, he, right now he, right on the He does, Ryan's doing rocket games right now, right? Yeah. He apologized for saying dick in the face. I make no apologies. How did you not, how did you not, how does that not one of the things that you mentioned? I want to apologize. I want to apologize for not mentioning, Ryan Holland's mentioning that he got dick in the face.

I want to apologize to you and to mismatch listeners. If somebody got dick in the face, Craig, see if he's okay. There you go. There you go. Someone got dick in the face, Craig. I do have one before we go. Let's see if he's okay. I do have one before we go.

What was your Super Bowl experience, right now? What do you think? Horrible. I'm a Cowboys fan. It was the worst thing ever. It was pretty. I hated it. It was just like I kept waiting for Patrick Mahomes to come back and be Patrick Mahomes.

I kept waiting for this to turn to it. I was like, this is going to be a great story when they come out of halftime and turn it on. I was going to be amazing. It was a disaster. I ate a ton of food. I lost a bunch of money and a team that I hate one. So yeah, it was all, it's just terrible. I lost a bunch of money, but then my buddy texted me and he was like, you won the boxes.

Oh, the squares? Yeah, I never win those ever. He'd been on me 500 bucks. I was like, oh, look at that. Wow. I was like, look at that. Because I was kind of bummed out. I was like, man, really tough teams are going to win.

Took some L's. Yeah, I got. I had the moment where I was actually, that was the only thing to keep up with. I had the moment where I was winning one of the squares. The squares. Yeah, but it was at like at my golf course. And so it was like $250 in, you know, store credit or whatever. But I needed.

It's more balls in the woods. No, I needed them to not score. in like the last four minutes of the game and like they scored twice. And so I was like, I don't even get to win that. It was a pretty boring Super Bowl game. Did you hear, did you hear KD sound on the game? No.

Someone asked KD about the game. He was just like, yeah, it's pretty boring to be honest with you. And I go, what are you think about Kendrick's? We're going to think about Kendry's halftime performance. He was like, I don't. And I was like, KD, keep being KD. Oh, he's a Drake guy. Oh, he's a Drake guy?

Big great guy. Because he did have this look on his face like he was being insulted or trying to trying to be baited in something? He's a big Drake guy. Well, good. So it's terrible. Terrible for big Drake guys. Oh.

Yeah, that was the worst. That was the worst. Oh, end of the pod. Quick Drake story. I missed out. He was hosting the SB Awards, right? It's really good, by the way. He was really dedicated.

He wrote songs. He was really, really good to work with it. Oh, no, that was Jamie Foxx that did the Serena song. The tennis ball one. He did that twice. I used to work on the SB Awards. I'm very familiar with SB history. I'm an SB historian.

And Jamie Fox did that, Can You Be My Tennis Ball? And he did a sequel to Can You Be My Tennis Ball? Google it. It's hilarious. Smack you up against the wall. Hilarious. But Drake was a really, really good host.

And he had this really good group of people around him, very organized, very like, this guy does logistics. This guy's my writer. This guy does the music. It was just like, really, just like, he was just funny and engaging. He would like smile and shake your hand.

It was just like, really great guy to be around. And he had this house. like in where everyone lives, Calabasas, right? And my wife was like, I don't really work on the SBs. My wife is like really, really like one of the producers of the Esbys.

And he had a writer's retreat out of his house. And I was going to show up later for dinner. And I got there. And as I pull up and get out of this Uber, I walk up and they had just finished a pickup basketball game in the parking lot. And it was just over. You know what I mean? And it was clearly,

There's going to be no more basketball. And I was just like, oh, man, what am I even going to do? Was he cool to you? I didn't talk to him that much because I wasn't really engaging with him that much. But like my wife talked to him a lot and said he was just like the absolute best. Yeah. Oh, wow. And that later that night, which is like probably not very PC and I might not regret setting that

don't sue anybody. Later that night with all the writers, like a bus pulled up. And they turned his house into a nightclub and he gave everyone dollar bills. and they, like, partied for like four hours, like after they were done working. Just seems like a really thoughtful, great guy, to be honest with you. But I thought of the Kendrick performance... As long as everybody was of age, you know that has been in...

Yes, yes. All I'm going to say is this about the Kennedy performance is like, I am so tired of scrolling Instagram and having these 17-minute videos of people explaining to me the intricacies of the symbolism of the Kendrick Lamar performance. I'm just like, enough already. Oh, it's actually a video video. game because he's been playing games.

It's a squid game because a squid has eight arms and he's put out eight albums and he's wearing Celine jeans and Celine Dion is from Canada and Drake is from Canada and Serena Williams used to date him and I'm just like I don't I don't care. It was fine. All right. It was okay. But like I do not. If you have a 45 minute expleter video about how I missed out how great this performance was

because of all the nuance and subtleties and Easter eggs, just spare me with it. I'm good. You know, there's that big Bob Dylan movie that's out right now with Timothy Shalabay. And I remember years ago, there was a guy that there's like a 60 Minutes interview with Bob Dylan. Guys like, how did it feel to be the leader of like a revolution where all of these people,

you know, whatever, and, you know, these profound impact that you had on this entire generation of people, whatever. And Bob Dylan, like, I remember thinking, oh, my God, he just crushed every baby boomer's heart because he was like, it just sounds. You know what? It's like, it's like, it's like, I bombed something over this. Yeah, I just had a few beers, wrote a couple rhymes, played a riff, smoked a joke. He's like, record an album. He's like, they're just songs. First of all, you do a pretty good Bob Dylan impression.

First of all, let's not just breeze over that. Yeah, yeah, that was, just wanted to listen to know, that was not sound on tape. Watch out, Shalamey. Watch out, Chalemay. Watch out. Just on that before we go for real, for real, real. One time, the ghost face killer was interviewed about his, like, interesting, like, crazy lyrics. And he's just like, dude, I just get into the booth and say stuff.

He's like, I'm just. He's like, y'all can figure it out later, but I'm just going in there just saying words. So, okay. That was his version of, they just sounds. They just sound. All right. Thank you to our executive producer, Jesse Lopez, as always. Jacoby, I'll talk to you later this week.

You're just sound.