The Mismatch - Mavs Going Full Luka, Watching the Suns Without CP3, and Rookie Growth With Dan Devine

Episode Date: March 17, 2022

Welcome to ‘The Void,’ where Kevin O’Connor brings you deep inside the NBA with the people who know it best. Today’s guest is The Ringer’s own Dan Devine. Dan joins the show to discuss his latest article about the Dallas Mavericks before diving into the hottest topics in the NBA. (02:25)—Why the Mavericks are dominating (10:17)—Can the Mavs make it to the Finals? (18:13)—Steph Curry's Injury (23:56)—Nets' title chances without Kyrie Irving and what the Ben Simmons news means (29:14)—What we’ve learned about the Suns without CP3 (42:22)—Why Scottie Barnes won’t win Rookie of the Year (46:34)—Jalen Green’s development (53:24)—Laker woes with Russell Westbrook (01:03:41)—On RJ Barrett Host: Kevin O'Connor Guest: Dan Devine Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For as long as I've known the NBA, it's been a Stars League. But even among the Stars, there's an exclusive club. Russell and Dr. Jay, Jordan, Kobe. They're all part of a select group that paved the way for the NBA superstar of today. And some even shared secrets with each other along the way. From Spotify and the Ringer podcast network, I'm Jackie McMullen. And this is the icons club. Hey, it's Kevin O'Connor.

Thank you to listening to The Void. Today we're bringing on Dan Devine from the ringer.com, who wrote a great piece about the Dallas Mavericks and Luca and Dinwiddie and how that team has been thriving since the poor Zingish trade. We're going to talk about a lot of news. We've got some injury news with Ben Simmons, with Steph Curry. We're talking about the rookie of the year race. The guys who aren't quite in the race like Jalen Green and Franz Wagner,

but are having great rookie years. I thought this was a really fun conversation. I really enjoyed it, and I hope you do too. Here's my conversation with Dan Devine. What's going on, Dan? How are you doing today? Not much. I like what you've done with this void.

It's not a yawning black chasm that I feel swallowed up by. It's a little homier. It's quite nice. Yeah, I mean, on Zoom right now, I get the fake bricks behind me. It feels very, very wintry right now. It feels very nice. And we have so much to talk about today. I want to start off with the Dallas Mavericks before we go around the NBA

talking about some of the latest news. We get Steph News, Ben Simmons News. We've got a lot else to talk about. But let's start off with the Dallas Mavericks. You wrote about them on the ringer.com yesterday. Since Spencer Denwoodie's debut, the Mavericks are 10 and 2. And since Luca began to explode in mid-January, they're 21 and 7. Since New Year's Eve, they're 27 and 8, the second best record in the entire NBA behind only the Phoenix Suns.

Dallas has been great for a really, really long time. but right now they're even better since that break, since that KP trade. Dan, how have the changes to this Mavs roster fueled this surge by Luca and what's happening with the whole team right now? I think it's sort of like they... Are you understood at the beginning of the season

that the idea was we have to figure out how to democratize this offense? We went all in on all Luca during last playoffs and we saw that at a certain point it wasn't going to be enough for us. And we have Porzingas, we've got everything invested in Porzengis, we've got to figure out how to

feature him and kind of spread the wealth. But it feels now like a little bit like they've just decided instead of trying to make a sports car or a race car into also a minivan, we're just going to make a really fucking good sports car. Like we're going to be, I guess, we're going to open things up one big at a time, you know, shooting all over the place, multiple ball handlers, multiple creators, and give Luca the space to cook. And obviously, I mean, it's not a revolutionary idea. We've seen this sort of construction work really well with guys like LeBron and Hardin in the but it's like if you give a guy that's that good at that many things space to do it, and then all the defensive attention has to go to him,

it makes life easier on everybody else too. So it's a construction we've seen before, but he seems more comfortable in it and like he's more, you know, confident in who's around him. He seems to have meshed with Dinwiddie really well. So it's like it opens up the floor. The defensive underpinnings of what's made them good. A lot of that happened with Porzingis off the floor.

So it's not like they've had to readjust too much in that capacity. so they just wind up looking like a team that's playing, instead of trying to be something it wasn't playing as the best version of itself more often. That's a great way to put it there. They've almost embraced just that, you know, heliocentric, give the ball to Luca and get out the way. I mean, you had the stat in your article that he's possessing the ball for 10 minutes per game, which is something that we've really only seen from a guy like in the 16-17 season

with Russell Westbrook. And yet, though, having Denwitty and having Brunson, having two guys who can handle the ball, make plays, allow Luca to come off some of those dribble handoff actions to get the ball off movement rather than dribbling it up. Like, he's possessing the ball more, and they're leaning more into it, and yet it feels a little different by having those guys around him with the way they share the ball. Totally. I mean, the difference is if he's catching it off one of those handoffs coming out of the corner, he's already on the move. He's already got a head start. The defense has already reacted.

as opposed to he gets the defensive rebound and they kind of plod their way up the court and everybody gets a chance to set up. He can do that. I mean, obviously, we've seen him unlock defenses in all sorts of capacities. But if you can make his life that much easier, the extent, I think that's the bet they're making. Yeah, the workload's nuts. You know, the history of guys with like a 40% usage rate succeeding over the course of the postseason is not very great. You know, it's not a, it's not the kind of distribution of assets you want to have. But if you're making some of those catches easier, some of those opportunities to attack easier, you're decongesting the paint so that basically every time he's in there, it's a layup, it's a foul, or it's a kick out to somebody that can

knock down a shot or make a catch, beat a close out, and go. Like, it just, it seems like even though he's got more on his plate, it's easier for him to bear that burden. And I think what you see is it was kind of hilarious watching the Nets game. Seeing, and I understand that Luca Donchich is one of the best players in the world, but seeing that the defensive game plan on him and on Kevin Durant was like almost the same, like we are going to trap that guy, we're going to force the ball. Oh, wow, you have to treat this guy like he's one of the best players ever. That's what you need to do to beat this team. And then to see Dallas respond to it, like, but we know how to play out of that now. And they're getting so many more reps playing out of it.

So you're getting more opportunities for Brunson to get downhill and create. You're getting more opportunities for Dorian Finney Smith to basically play pop a shot. Josh Green is like catching in the corner and being able to make quicker decisions or go right up with the ball. Everybody's learning how to be in their roles in this structure. And I got to imagine that's going to pay dividends come to playoffs. Yeah, no doubt about it. Like with Luca, it's the type of thing right now where he's averaging since January 19th, which I think is the date where after he came back from his midseason injury, COVID, that's the day where I'll

was like, okay, he's back in shape. Like he looks amazing. He's, I think he had 41 points that eye. But since that date, mid-January, he's averaging 32.6 points, 39% from three, trying nine free throws per game, 10.1 rebounds, 8.4 assists, playing way better defense than he did earlier in the season. And as you said, he's being defended, like, one of the best players ever. Like, that's the way, that's the respect he's being given by defenses, the way in which they are often paying him attention.

But with the roster around them, all playing in this. style, like you said, come playoff time when things slow down and you're not getting those transition opportunities, you're running more half court. Well, that's what Dallas is already doing. They're already doing it and they're already putting up absurd offensive numbers by playing the way teams typically have to play in the postseason. You know, with Luca, like, we've seen him have two incredible postseason runs in the first round, two years in a row against the clippers. And we've seen what he can do against great defense, great defenders. on the biggest stage.

With this team right now, Dan, Luca feels like he's better than he's ever been. Are we underrating what they could be in the playoffs as a collective unit or is it solely reliant on the production of Luca? Like, does he need to be absurd? Or is there something to the collective

of this team that can make a run? Yeah, I think that there's, I mean, it's maybe a little of column A, a little a column B. The team concept only works if he's this guy. The good news, is he's this guy, right? And we've seen him be this guy against, like, can you imagine, it's hard to construct a better defense to deal with him than Kauai and PG on the perimeter, right?

So like, he's been that dude against that defense two post seasons in a row. And so what it comes down to then is, do you believe that that A plus level guy with B, B plus-ish talent around him that fits really well, can that be teams that have two of those A guys or, you know, a slightly higher, I don't know, A plus level guy or whatever. And so the construction, I mean, the obvious point of connectivity is Dallas did it in 2011 with Dirk and with a good defense behind him and role players that fit and who are like ready to rise to the moment. Another one might be, you know, Toronto in 2019. And like, I don't know. I mean, you can't necessarily draw the direct lines like Jalen Brunson is Kyle Lowry and, you know, whatever. You can't necessarily do that. But the idea.

idea of if the fundamentals of the defense are sound, then I think they are. I don't think this is like necessarily smoke and mirrors for them to be good, maybe not like best defense in the league like they were for a while, but good. If that's real and if Luca's real, then what you need is those guys, enough of those guys to make enough shots or enough plays on the ball. And like, you know, we've seen teams in the past when their big number one guy goes off the court, they just completely crater. Well, now if you have Dinwiddie and Brunson able to run together, and they've been doing pretty well with that, the limited minutes they've had, the two of them on the court with Lucas sitting, the offense is pretty much state of float. If you're

like level in the non-Luca minutes and you can go nuts in the Luka minutes, yeah, I mean, why not Dallas at that point? And so obviously matchups are a huge part of it. And, you know, the top six in the West is going to be absolutely brutal, especially as people get healthier, you know, hopefully, you know, knock on wood and knock on the bricks behind you and everything else. But like, I mean, it's hard for me to look at it and say, no, no, no, this is kind of fluky. Because, yeah, even though it relies on Luca being a super high usage guy, I believe he can do that.

I believe he can do that against the best defenses that they're going to face. Tell me this then. I mean, give me a quick yes or no to this question. Would you be surprised if the Mavericks made it to the Western Conference Finals? No, I would not be shocked by that. I mean, I think the- One more. One more.

Would you be surprised if the Navs made it to the NBA finals? Yeah. Why? I don't know why that's different to me. So I've asked that question on Twitter. West Finals was 40% yes, surprise, 52% not surprised. NBA Finals was 79% yes, surprise.

21% not surprised. So you're in agreement with like what people said on NBA Twitter, as am I for what it's worse. But with that said, though, everything you're saying, if you're saying, no, you won't be surprised at the West Finals. If you get all the way there to the Final Four, I don't know, you got a shot.

You get a shot. If they're in the West Finals, they have a chance. Of course. Yeah. I think they're going to have a shot, you know? Yeah. And I mean, I think a lot of it will depend, it depends on seating too, right? Like, I mean, sure.

Matchups. Yeah. And so if you're talking like off the rip, if they got to go, although I guess what we're saying, if they're in the four or five series, they get past, you know, if that's Utah, then they go to deal with Phoenix in round two. So I guess like, it's not necessarily more surprising if they beat Utah. If they beat Phoenix in round two, then I guess you wouldn't necessarily say they're like not, they kind of have to be considered the favor for them.

So, I don't know, I guess the answer is that maybe like motivated reasoning on my part. I'm like, no, no, no, I think it's like I can be fair. I can be like, yeah, it wouldn't surprise me there, but I'm not going to be like, yes, they're going to win the finals because I am a tepid takesman, Kevin O'Connor. Maybe that's the problem here. I have not, I don't have the courage of my convictions, even after having written all that about Luca and the Mavs. I mean, the way I look at it is Dallas can beat Utah.

Dallas can beat Memphis. Dallas can beat Denver, though Yokic is such a challenging matchup with his side. against that leaner, smaller Maverick's front court, that it really depend a lot on the health of Murray and Porter Jr. But I think with those guys or without those guys, I lean Denver, but that's the type of series that could go seven. But I would not pick the Mavs against a healthy Warriors team, but we'll see if they'll actually be healthy with the Steph Curry news on indefinitely.

I would not pick them to beat the Sons. The Sons have Dallas as number. Phoenix is 6 and 0 versus Dallas going back to last season. But those games haven't been close. It's not like they've all been blowouts. And also, the Suns haven't faced these Mavs, these smaller, spacier, scarier mavericks. So I can't, I can't, I might be surprised,

but I can't rule out Luca polling in 07 LeBron. LeBron was 22 when he led the calves all the way to the finals, and I got swept by the spurs. Lucas 22, playing the best basketball of his life, 32, 10, and 8 for two straight months. ever since he got in shape 32, 10, and 8, and his team looks better than it ever has. It looks like it fits better than it ever has for a guy

that just went toe to toe with the clippers two straight years with worse rosters in a broken KP. So I'm warning everyone now. You can't count out the Dallas Mavericks. You can't count them out. Yeah, I completely agree with that. I think that's the thing about the West that's going to be so nuts, is like, I think you could make,

you could sort of cut and paste or find and replace every team in that discussion. Like, it would not surprise me if any of those top six made it all the way there. Like, I mean, it would not shock me, I should say. Like, surprise, sure. You know, as you get further down the bracket, it's a little bit dicier.

But, I mean, I can, you could see, obviously, the sons are the favorites and they deserve to be that. It wouldn't stun me if Memphis did it because this is now you're talking about, like, a young team, but a young team that has gone through the ringer a little bit has

taken its lumps and like play off the game of Jason teams. No pun intended. Oh no. All puns intended. Always. But like they've gone,

they, you know, they've played through the playing tournament. They won the playing tournament. They made the playoffs last year. Like that whole young core had that experience. And then same though you know, you're pointing to Dallas's record for the last few months.

Basically since the first 15 or so games of the season, Memphis has just been this good. Like they're not, it's not like they got hot at the right time. They've been awesome since like they were, I think they were eight and nine. nine and then they've been incredible since. And so there's a question, there are questions about a lot of these teams, but there are also so many potential answers and so many people

that could go on a heater and carry somebody for like three weeks. So, I mean, all that to say, I'm pretty frigging excited about what that's going to look like, because I think it's the opportunity for a lot of these, like, young guys to put their mark on something and make an advancement. And, you know, when we've had those chances in the past, it's led to some pretty special postseason. So Dallas could absolutely be part of that. so could I think a handful of other teams, and that's kind of what makes it pretty exciting. Yeah, no doubt about it.

I mean, even whether it's part two with Devin Booker, whether it's if Jamal Murray were to come back with Denver and have more opportunities to shine, Cat his first time, assuming the wolves get in, I mean, like if they get through the plan or even if they were to move up to the 60,

but like whatever it might be, a lot of young guys are going to have, never mind like some of the rotation guys, like on the Warriors or Kaminga, if Moody gets a night, you know, guys like that are very excited about even besides the Jamarance of the world and Luca too because this is for Luca

an opportunity to get past the first round for the first time. One last question about Luca before we move on. Why is the guy who's averaging 28, 9, and 9 not a serious MVP candidate? Is this just the, it's just a testament to Janus, Yokic, and Embedah, another level? Or are we kind of overlooking the fact that a guy averaging 28, 9, and 9, and the second best team in basketball since December 31st is for some reason just not being mentioned in this. I'm just curious about your thoughts.

Yeah, I mean, I think part of it is definitely that that top three feels like it's kind of trapped in amber. Like in whatever order you want to arrange those guys. Should they be? Should they be, though? With a 2899 guy. I mean, okay, it's a fair question. I think that the consistency of those first two months did happen, you know? And so some of that, you know, out of shape, little chubby, you know, missed time.

He has missed more games than those others. Yeah. So, I mean, there's a consistency of resume component to it. And if it's a, you know, the longevity of, you know, the full season, I think there's that aspect of it. But there's also, you know, he deserves credit certainly for what Dallas, you know, his role in Dallas's evolution on the defensive end. You know, he's playing a bunch of minutes on a still good defense. I think, you know, if you look at it, obviously, if you're considering both ends of the floor, I think you would put Janus and Embed over him in terms of what he can mean.

And then obviously all the numbers on Yokic continue to say, better defender than everybody gives him credit for. And I think maybe less so with Luca. But if you're like, it's like the all the holistic all around component of it, I think those guys for their full resumes and, you know, including the defense event and all that kind of stuff are probably going to wind up ahead on a lot of scorecards. But if you're just talking best player, I mean, he has an argument against basically everybody else

in the league right now. And that is an, it's an, so I mean, all that said, I'm betting you find him on more like fourth and fifth, uh,

spots by the end of the season. Like, as Steph falls off of some ballots, perhaps because of injury and, you know, an extended stretch where he was, uh, lesser than he was earlier in the season without Dremond,

you know, maybe DeRose in, falls down a little bit as the Bulls can, you know, have a struggle, you know, maybe Luca climbs up some of those rankings, but I think it's maybe more the framing of like, if you're fourth or fifth in this class, given how good the top of the league has been, you know, it's sort of no shade on that. We did mention Steph Curry. There was news this morning about the foot injury he suffered and the Warriors lost

of the Celtics on Wednesday night. Adrian and Warjanovsky from ESPN tweeted out the initial evaluation of Steph Curry's sprained ligament in his left foot offers optimism that he can return by the start of the playoffs in mid-April. But he's expected to see specialists soon for further evaluation. Dan, this is one of the reasons why we're talking about can Dallas go all the way? Can Memphis go all the way? Could Denver go all the way? Because the Golden State Warriors, this whole year starts out without Clay, that Clay Thompson,

then he comes back and Draymond's out. Then Draymond comes back. They play a game together. They hug at the after the win. It's beautiful. I feel so great. My life is amazing. I'm watching Steph,

Dremond, and Clay Thompson on the court together again. And then this happens. I pick the Warriors to go to the finals before the season. I changed the Suns mid-year. I don't think I can go back to picking the Warriors to go to the NBA finals. It just feels like it could be one of those years, man. Yeah.

I mean, the fact that it was what is like a, a thousand and five days for them all to get back on the court together. And then now right away, it's going back to it is such a, such a bummer. I mean, it's just obviously the optimism that Woj talks about is wonderful. You know, you'd love to see Steph use it. I mean, maybe this is like a tampering to, you know, get a little bit fresh legs after, you know, carrying such a huge load all season. And if he's able to rehab and kind of rest and come back to it.

But you'd imagine, I mean, just given how their offense has struggled when he's been off the court for much of the season. and I think it's like 7.5 points per hundred or something worse with him off the court, which is a huge, huge gap. You know, even now, obviously, getting Draymond back, getting Clayback, you know, Jordan Poole can play some of that role. You know, there's more options in terms of how to try to plug the gaps, but there is no replacement for Stefan Curry. If you are likely to not, now this, you have to imagine this drops them down out of the two spot,

you know, if Memphis is able to keep rolling with a softer schedule on the way back and returning to hell. So you'd think so. So then this lines it up where you're looking at either at a three-six of or, you know, maybe for the, I mean, there's enough of a cushion between them in Utah, but like three-six. Three and a half with, you know, 10 to 13 games left for every team in the NBA. It's not impossible, but. Yeah. I mean, with no stuff, though, woo, I mean, you can't rule anything out, especially if Utah or Dallas,

especially Dallas just keeps on rolling. Yeah. So, I mean, then you're talking about an opening round series against, I mean, you know, Denver, Dallas, or, you know, Utah, depending on what the slide looks like. And if you're going into that with a less than 100% step and, you know, Clay has been, you know, has been great at times and then obviously had some struggles as these come back from, you know, two significant seasons off of injury. Like, everything, everything is now on the table. Like, I've been saying when I talk to people, I think that the spread of potential outcomes for Memphis is probably the widest in the conference.

Like, I wouldn't be stunned if they got bitten the first round. I wouldn't be stunned if they made all the way to the finals. Oh, yeah. This injury for Steph maybe introduces them into that kind of conversation. Yeah, I mean, and in a way, it almost makes me think about just how much of a, it increases the disappointment for a team like the Lakers, where like it's open. It's open right now. The sons are the favorite in the Western Conference, but besides that, it's wide open.

And if you had a healthy AD and a Russell Westbrook, who was either shooting jumpers at his career averages or just not at all, you'd be in better shape than the guy is shooting 11% from three and 20% from mid-range since the All-Star break. Like, he's in his own head. He is the yips. But ultimately, though, like, it is what it is, and it's these other teams that are going to seize this opportunity to potentially make a deeper run.

And not having Stefan Curry, man, man, like, I, like, it could be bad down the stretch of this season. And if he were to miss time to the postseason, and obviously they're likely going to be an early out. But it's just like for me more than anything, it's just, it's just sad. Like I was, I was personally really looking forward to watching, you know, Steph, Drayman and Clay play down the stretch of this season. You have Draymond after the game the other night on the Warriors broadcast.

He's like, we're going to win the championship. You know, and it's just like, you're not going to win the championship unless you have all three of you guys. It just sucks. I'm just very disappointed by it. Moving on to another injury, Wodge and Ramona Shelburne reported on ESPN that Ben Simmons has a quote, irritation of the L4 disc of the lower spine and he received an epidural shot in his back. The Nets said that he hoped he'll be back the last couple of regular season games before the playing or the playoffs begin. But with only 12 games left right now, the Nets are three and a half back from the calves for the six seed,

and they're three and a half back from the Raptors for the 17. So the odds are, as we just said with the Warriors, it'll be hard to slide down for Golden State. It'll be hard for Brooklyn to move up with so few games remaining. But there are only one ahead of the Hornets, one and a half head of the Hawks. So unless Eric Adams, the mayor of New York, changes laws there with the mandates.

Kyrie's only going to play three of the remaining 12 games from the Nets. Eight games are in Brooklyn. One is in Madison Square Garden against the Knicks. Only three games with Kyrie down the stretch. the dude who just scored 60 earlier this week, only three. So it's going to be tough for Brooklyn down the stretch of this year. Dan, what's your level of belief in the Mets today as a team that can win the championship? I guess I don't know.

Can they tank down to 10th? Can we get them out of the 7-8 with the Raptors where Kyrie wouldn't be able to play any of it? I think you have to, if you're being a pragmatist and a realist about this, you have to say that your level of belief is waning. And like, it's just there are, you know, reasonable people can differ on what they think of Kyrie's stance and his decision making. My personal decision is that this should have been solved a long time ago by Kyrie Irving getting the vaccine shot.

That's my personal belief. But this is, we are here now. We are at this place. And there's a month ago, less than a month to go in the regular season. And they just, they don't have enough time to get everything together. They can be good with Kevin Durant and some of. Kyrie in some games and also I mean they have

Seth Curry's been out they haven't gotten to have like even their full compliment of what's less than their full compliment on the court at this point it's I believe in Kevin Durant to be able to shoulder a heavy burden I don't know that I believe in Kevin Durant to be able to shoulder that level of burden from like the 7,

8, 9 or 10 spot through four rounds so if that's and if like the expectation for a team that's this has invested this much in being this good is that they are a championship level team and there simply isn't enough in evidence of that at this point and there's just not enough time to get it all there. So it seems like your level of confidence right now is fairly low considering the road ahead.

It's not about the team itself. It's the road that they have to take possibly winning two playing games and then a first round series against the beat or bucks, whoever the one or two seat is. And then another tough second round series and then another tough third round series. That's really just about the road you're talking about more than what they could be as a team themselves.

Yeah, I mean, if you were telling me that I could bank on getting Kyrie Irving for 35 minutes a game, every game, then my level of confidence would rise significantly. But especially, let's say you do get full-time Kerry. Let's say the law changes, the private, you know, mandate. It changes in New York. The Kyrie's full-time.

Let's say Simmons comes back. The last couple of regular season games, like they hope. In that case, are you picking them to go to the NBA finals? If we get that, entering the,

no, you're not? No, I'm not. Because of the road still, even that. Because of the road still, also because if you're, if Simmons is on the court, like,

if Simmons had gotten on the court after the trade and had this amount of, like, runway to both shake off the rust and figure out how he fits in on, in a completely new context alongside a completely new set of players, then sure.

But if you're saying, maybe they get him back for two games before it all starts. Like, it just does not seem like enough time for all of this to congeal. Now, I still, I would say that if you have a full-time Kyrie with KD and the rest of the roster as constructed right now with no Simmons,

I would, I would bet on them to come out of the play-in. I would, you know, and I would, but I don't know that I would bet on them to go past the heat, or past either the heat or the bucks, because they've just,

they haven't been good enough. Like, even with their two best guys, I don't know that I believe they would be able to defend either of those teams at a high enough level. I don't know that I believe that they would be able to, you know, sort of congeal in time for that to happen. So it's partly the road. It's partly just, it's late. Like, you needed to figure all this shit out way before now. And they haven't. And there's a lot of reasons why they haven't, but they haven't.

And so then, like, you wind up, it's like handing in your, you know, the deadline's here. What did you write? and if the story's only half written, it's not going to, we're not going to run it, you know? And so I think that's kind of where we are with them right now. Sure. I mean,

and I think even with a guy like Ben Simmons, the value in getting him minutes playing with Kyrie Irving and Kevin Duran, because his role is going to be different than it wasn't Philadelphia. This is a brand new offense, brand new circumstances. Everything's going to be so much different. For a guy like him, I think there's an immense value in getting those reps with the team.

And plus, he still does shoot with the wrong hand. That could be problematic at some point in the postseason. We'll see, by the way, did you see Mason Plumley switch shooting hands from his right to his left mid-season? Did you see that, Dan? I saw somebody mention, I did not see it in real time. I have not been closely tracking. Did you see the Eric Collins clip, the Hornets announcer calling Mason Plumley,

shooting a free throw with his left hand. It was the funniest thing. Well, listen, I mean, we've all long known that Mason Plumley is one of the more versatile big men in our game. He's a triple double machine just waiting to be unleashed. And now, you know, maybe this sort of unlocks his full game. And what a sight to behold it will be. Mason, he's shooting 36% with the right hand. And he said, let's do it from the South Paul side. With the sons, they're eight and four without Chris Paul. What have we learned about them without CP3? that all of the sort of like fringe discussion about how ultimately it's about how CP3's leadership has lifted all boats. It's like maybe just give a little bit of respect to the other dudes too.

Like no shade on Chris Paul's leadership, which is, you know, estimable in its own right. But like, Devin Booker's this fucking good. DeAndre Aten is this good. McHale Bridges is this good. Cam Johnson is this good and is this good and talk about guys that are going to get bags. It's like Cam Johnson is this good and has, like the space that was created through Paul's injury, they have all expanded to fill. And I think it's a testament to those guys individually, first off. And honestly, to Booker more than maybe, you know, more than all, like first among equals there because this was happening before CP got there, right? You know, we watched the bubble. We saw that and even like the first couple of months before the bubble, or the last couple months, rather before the bubble, that lineup with U.S.

in the middle as opposed to bridge it fit it made sense the way that that construction worked with rubio on the ball instead of paul like it the the lineup fit and a testament to you know uh ryan mcdonough first and now james jones the way they've constructed that roster and the way that and monte williams the way they he sort of has everybody knowing exactly what it's expected of them and then when there's more opportunities it's guys the guys who are producing at a lower level over the course of the full season it's because they're sacrificing to buy into a broader team structure, they can do more. And so now you're seeing those guys that are able to do more.

I think it shows just how much overall talent is on that team. And also, how effectively Moni's gotten everybody to buy into being like, I know you can, I know you can get 20. But right now, what we need you to do is this. And so there will be, there will be an opportunity for you to do that campaign. There will be a time where you are going to, I guess, just be like Diet Chris Paul. Like, I don't know how we got here, but there will be a time for you to do that.

But right now, this is what we need. And so, I mean, I think you have to look at it as, it's sort of the opposite of what we were talking about with Golden State. There's no replacing Chris Paul, just as there is no replacing Stefan Curry. But this is a proof in concept, like the sons can win without him. Whether they can win a championship without him, you know, I don't believe that. But if you're expecting he's going to be back and available,

they can win without him. And now we've seen it and we've seen the machine keep rolling. Yeah, I mean, they're eight and four without them. Over the five games without Chris Paul, that Cam Johnson was playing before he went out. He was average 23 points on 12 shots per game, eight shots from three, five three throws per game, up from one for his entire career.

He was running five pick and rolls per game compared to one and a half prior. Mikkel Bridges up to four, five pick and rolls per game as well. He has a big night the other night for Phoenix, 26 points. campaign, Aaron Holliday getting more touches. It just shows exactly what you said. These guys are all sacrificing and buying and even DeAndre 8 and doing a little bit more off the dribble, taking some more big range, a couple of three-pointers here and there. There's more freedom for some of these other guys rather than, hey, we have Chris Paul, who is one of the best isolation scores in the NBA

history. Let's kick it out to him and get a shot from him. Let's have him run pick and roll. We're seeing, though, that if there comes a time in the playoffs, whether it's in injury, or whether it's, you know, a guy's just out because of foul trouble, a suspension, whatever it is, that the sons have guys who can lift their games up to another level, if need be. Like, this team, like, over and over and over again, they've shown that they have more layers. I think this is really the next one, as you said, the fact that this team is sacrificed and bought in.

And yet even without Chris Paul, they keep winning. Because those guys who were sacrificing all for the greater good of the team, could actually do way more when they need to. Yeah, yeah. It's a lot of fun to watch. It really is. I love watching McKell Bridges, run some pick and roll, scored 26 points, do some stuff off the dribble.

Cam Johnson was doing that too. It's just a reminder of how insanely talented this team is and why they're the favorites in the West. Yeah, I mean, their run last year was derailed by the fact, like, we don't have a one-on-one matchup for Janus. Guess what? Basically, nobody else in the world has a one-on-one matchup for Janus, right? So if you can't just find that guy or create him in a lab, what can you do?

Well, we're going to do all the things that made us awesome last year even better. And then we're just going to tinker around until we get to be like 10 deep with guys who have filled larger roles elsewhere, who have experience in the playoffs and who we're going to be able to trust in different circumstances. And then we're just going to be like, well, we think our young guys that keep getting better, which they do year after year. Like, it's the best booker we've seen. It's the best eight. we've seen it. The best bridges we've seen so on down the line, like, we're going to trust that those guys are just going to be able to elevate their games even further. And, you know,

it was funny if you were saying, you know, this is wide open. There's no, you know, no one thing. I'm like, don't let the guys from the timeline here. You say that. They're going to come after you if they hear it. But it's, you have to come away from it feeling like, I don't know where the holes are that you're going to be able to poke through them. And it's going to be awfully tough for some team in the West to, like, ram through them coming from that one spot. I want to talk about a young team that's not good right now, something Devin Booker used to experience, now is being experienced by Shea Gildos Alexander.

Check the segues on this kid, man. Incredible. I mean, Devin Booker, you know, his experiences with the sons and my experience is calling them the bright future sons. Makes it easy. Because right now, it's too easy to say the bright future thunder. They can't be the next bright future team because they have 400 draft picks over the next eight years. But Gildes-A-Alexander right now, 31 points per game, 7 and a half assist, 6.1 rebounds in 11 games since the all-star break.

He had his best numbers of the season after a slowish start prior to his absence in late January. This is his second year in a row averaging 24, 6, and 5, but the Thunder still aren't good. One of the worst records in the NBA. Is Shay Gildes-Alexander's play translatable to a winning situation like Devin Booker's has been with the Sons? Well, I definitely think so because I think it's a level of it's not dominant

or overwhelmingly ball dominant in a way that doesn't leave space for other people. I think that there's, he has obviously developed his own ability to get his own shot more than he's been like

a true facilitator. But he's, that is still part of his game. He's still able to do that. And to the point where I think the analog might be a little less like someone like Booker and maybe more someone like Jha.

because it's all built around rim pressure, right? It's all built around his ability. Now, he doesn't do it at 1,000 miles an hour like Jha does, but the way he gets to the rim, he's averaging 23.9 drives to the basket of game. That leads the league. It's more than Luke. It's more than Jod, it's more than everybody.

Because even though it looks like he's like the herky jerky kind of start, stop, he's able to get there against everybody. Even on a team where you pretty much know, you've got to throw three guys behind him in front of him. him to be to be able to keep him away. He's still getting to the rim. And so what I, and what I imagine will be likely, or the, the framework there is, all right, with Jha, it was like, we know he can get to the rim. We know he can sort of pass guys open. We know he can be that sort of north-south creator. Let's surround him with guys who can shoot and run with him.

And the thunder are working on that. It's, there are, it's not as easy as just saying, like, I'm just going to pluck this one. You've got to hit a lot of home runs in the draft. You've got to be able to nail some of those lower first round selections, things like that. But there's obviously no shortage of opportunities for Sam Presti to be able to do that with the bushel of picks he's got coming up. And with some of the talent they've already got in house. They've already, they've hit on Lou Dort. They've hit on Josh Giddy.

You know, the shot's not there for Giddy, but everything else. Everything else. Everything else. It's disappointing. We're not able to see Giddy right now in the second half of the season. As soon as Dagnold announced, Giddy's going to run our offense the rest of the season. boom, he's out. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, and that's, you know, you talk about reps and, you know, the idea of someone like, you'd love to see Simmons get the opportunity to, at least, you know, figure out what the temperature is like when he's on the floor with Kyrie and KD. Very much the same with Giddy, because, I mean, they played earlier in the season, but the level that Giddy got to while Shea was out is different. And so then it's like, well, now, how do we adjust? How do we, you know, tweak the dials a little bit on who has the ball when, what actions do we run?

if you are able to run Shea off of, you know, off ball more, does that open up with his shooting, with his ability to kind of turn a corner and get downhill? What does that open up for everybody else? And to suddenly, like, is it, you know, as Darius basely, like, expanding his game even further, are you getting more out of somebody like, Trayman. I know what, I know your boy, you know, like, there are so many opportunities you've got. Tremant's good, dude. He is. He's like, no, I shouldn't say he's good. He's not far from being good. That's the way I would put it.

And so that, but so that's the distance they have to travel, right? is there's a lot of guys there that are like not, either not far from being good or a lot of potential opportunities to get guys that are in that spot, but Shay's the one that's going to have to demand the attention and rise, you know, raise the tide.

And I believe that his game is capable of doing that, but it takes A, better talent around him, B, raising his level on the other end. What are you not good at now and where can you get to? That's the Booker comp, right? Booker became a good defender through effort, through consistent, you know, evaluation of I need to be better at this.

So when we're ready to win, I'm not like a drag on the team. Shea, can you do that and be that guy on the ball, off the ball, et cetera? And then that's what elevates everybody else. But I think the talent's there to be able to do it. Yeah, no doubt about it. I'm with you 100% on SGA. His play is translatable to a winning situation. It's just a matter of, is it going to be an OKC or not?

Like with all the trade rumors we heard last year, number one pig, possibly for Kate, if they wanted to reset the clock, then maybe you're getting a significant return. But regardless of where it is, OKC, which it probably would be. I don't see why they wouldn't keep a young 20s point guard doing the things that he's doing. We aren't getting to see Gidey and the Rookie of the Year race anymore, which is unfortunate. He was starting to put himself in that top four, making it a top four instead of a top three with Scotty Barnes,

Evan Mobley and Cade Cunningham. I want to talk about the Raptors real quick. There were 23 and 23 in late January. and they're 16 and 7 since then, which is a 57 win pace. And I find that really incredible because 14 of their last 18 games have been on the road.

They've spent four days in Toronto since the All-Star breaking, yet the team keeps winning. They've just won five in a row on the road against the Clippers and a really awesome win on Wednesday. It was just a fun, just pure effort basketball,

no-quit basketball from both teams. Then they beat the Lakers, the Nuggets, the Suns, in the Spurs. One night it's Seaccom, Impossible Stop. One night it's Gary Trent Jr. dropping 41. It's Van Bleep. It's role players like Achua and Kim Birch.

It's Scotty Barnes going 25, 10, and 8 against Denver, and in that game, I thought Scottie Barnes played some of the best season that we've seen all season against Yokic. And it wasn't just him, though. Like, it was a team effort. The whole team playing consistently physical, consistently focused,

the way they fronted, pressured, doubled sometimes. single coverage sometimes constantly given different looks at the great game plan by the coaching staff perfectly executed by the players and especially by a rookie and Scotty Barnes who's just been absolutely excellent man and my question for you is this will Scotty Barnes win rookie of the year before I answer I want to say it's it is endlessly funny to me that at the deadline when it was like well Toronto could really use an upgrade at center what are they going to do they're like oh well they'll go get a six foot eight guy with long arms who isn't really a center and they get

that young and it's like we're just going to build the whole plane out of the exact same guy. Whole thing. Clippers can do that if Kauai and Paul George come back. OKC is very clearly building with the length and size with playmakers in mind with giddy, even the

Poku Puck, whether it works out or not, they're building big. Other teams are doing that too, including the Raptors like you said, but yeah, sorry. No, it's okay. Well, you're going to need Poku to become about like two or three X Poku. We're going to need to expand him widthwise as a, as also though I like

poker right now. I like seeing him get stripped at half court by the Jonté Murray. It's fun. It's all growth, right? It's all development. It's fun to see that. It's also fun when he's crossing people up as a lanky seven footer. Like, Poku, I love watching Poku all the time, no matter how the results are. Exactly. Anyway, Scotty Barnes.

It's a giant J.E. Skeets. Scotty Barnes. Okay. Scotty Barnes is no, he's not going to win a rookie of the year. Evan Mowb is going to win a rookie of the year. But Scotty Barnes will probably finish second. Yeah. How sure? I feel pretty confident about that.

Why? Why? There's one month to go. I just want to push back. Why? Okay. I think because the thing, well, A, there's like the anchoring effect of like this was the way it was at the beginning of the season.

And so we sort of like, you know, the longer someone has the appearance of being in the lead, the more you think that they just have the lead. So I think that's part of it. And so in the minds of many voters, that will be like, there were people who were like, does Mobley deserve all-star consideration? And there wasn't that for Barnes. Whether that was reasonable or not,

I think that, like those sorts of discussions stick in people's brains. The other thing I would say is the calves lose Jared Allen and they just slide Mobley to starting center. And they, no, they have not been perfect since that happened. But the fact that he went from,

I'm the complimentary guy who plays off of the other big guy, to like, okay, now I'm the starting center. and we're winning games and I'm putting up big numbers and I'm doing it like as the rim protector and facilitator and a role guy like the all around of that on a team that nobody expected

to be a playoff team I think is what will carry that. You can absolutely push back and say all of that is also true of Scotty Barnes because the Raptors didn't people didn't expect that from the Raptors. I was maybe a little higher on them coming into the season than other people but I think that it's that Mobley has a little bit more

of a shine in that case and then I have not gone through like the full suite of advanced numbers recently, but I'm guessing that when you go through that whole exercise, he grades out a little bit better than Barnes, like, across the board. And so I think that kind of stuff, plus the discussions people have had leading up to now is what I'll get you there. Your personal top three.

What would that be right now? Here is the caveat. I think I'm going to wind up with a vote again. I don't know for sure. I've been lucky enough to have a real vote. So this is not. Regardless, official or not. Yes.

Yes. So, but if people, so I don't like, this on a spreadsheet saying we already know what his votes are. So I would say, yeah, I'd say Mobley one, Barnes 2, and then I'd probably go with Cade 3. The name that you need to, or that needs to be in that discussion probably, I mean, Giddy was a good one, but I think Franz Wagner winds up in that discussion too. It depends on how many people have been actually watching the magic. But he's been consistently really good in like a whatever role we need to

to give him across the board spot for a team that has needed somebody to do lots of different things all season long. He feels like the kind of guy who's going to be an apex role player for a really long time and maybe even more than that. I don't know. So Vag... Who gets the three-four between like Cade

who has been just incredible for this month and then also really good going back a couple of months too? And Vagner's just sort of been consistently solid all the way through. That's kind of the question. in my brain right now. Yeah, I think Wagner's definitely fourth right now, but you know, you could make an argument for him third because of the consistency, as you said. I mean, right now,

I'd give Mobley like the slightest of edges over Scotty Barnes at the moment. That could very well change over the last month of season. I think with the way the Raptors are playing, and particularly the way in which Scotty Barnes can be utilized, the way he does different things on a night-to-night basis defending bigger players, smaller players, guards, wings. Sometimes he's a facilitator. Sometimes he's a scorer. He just does everything for that team. And like Evan Mobley does too in his own way for Cleveland.

I'm filling different roles. As you said, Jared Allen goes down. He's playing more of that backline, playing more center. Both of those guys, like unbelievable as rookies. Kate Kenningham's development as a rookie over the course of the year, he starts off out, comes back, a little sluggish to start. He's been so much better, so much more in command. The one guy who's really not in that discussion has been Jalen Green.

And he's not going to be in that discussion because he's only been good since early February. But even then, like, if you're projecting forward for the years to come, Jalen Green, he's averaging 19 points on 39% from three since February 1st, scoring from everywhere, pulling up the shoot from mid-range, stepping back the three against really good defenders coming off screens. hit hit that huge corner three last week against the lakers coming off a screen he looks better in command of the ball in the pick and roll playing with better pace uh like like you watch the progress of a guy like that and it's like wow this draft class could be unbelievable

like it could have a bunch of stars man it's wild all like all time special and because the thing with green too like everybody knew he could he would be able to score walking into the league, right? Like, that was going to happen. It was where does he help you elsewhere? And there was a point recently around, I think that same kind of time span, like beginning of February, or like six week span, beginning of February to now, where he had, I think it was like more steals than turnovers. And you're like, oh, if he's not just throwing the ball over the place. And if the assist of turnovers are coming up, then all right, then like every possession you have in his hand, you feel pretty good about. And if that's the case, and he can just get to the bucket or create,

you know, and he's able to do a little bit of event creation on defense and get out in transition. They were able to sort of pick up the pace that way. His ceiling becomes even that much higher. And so it is an uncommon level of defensive quality in this draft class like you were saying. I mean, the fact that you've got guys, like Mowgli is going to wind up. People are going to be talking about should he be on all defense, whether that's real or not, whether he winds up getting there. It's a discussion.

It's a legitimate discussion. He's on the big pile of names. There's 10 spots, two teams for all defensive. of teams. He's on the big pile of guys that you should at least have in consideration when you're organizing your teams, you know? And I mean, Barnes, like, it is not light that Ty Lou goes and says, like, when I look at him, I see

Draymond Green. You're like, all right, well, if Ty Lou, Tyler's seen that up close and personal in the finals and stuff, you know, like, if that's what he sees, like, you've got to wait that. And both in terms of the, the facilitation and the ability to defend everybody all over the court, it's been, that you have guys, you know, as you mentioned, Cunningham has growth on that end over the year.

Herb Jones has been sensational since the beginning of the season in terms of locking people up. It's rare to get this many guys who come in and you're able to defend at a high level right away. And if you can do that, you'll stay on the floor. And if you can stay on the floor, the other aspects of your game, the touches, the shots, everything else, the reps,

the way to break down the floor and to read the game, that all gets a chance to grow too. And so, yeah, where this class can go is, it's really exciting. I think for right now, I would probably go Mobley, Scotty, Cade, and then we'll see over the next month of the year who winds up winning the vote. Do you have any theories on why that is? Is it just a wave of players who are coming in that happen to be very smart, intelligent, gritty, hardworking, tough hustlers on defense? Or is it there something, some other factors going into it just to have, because it's not just this season.

It's in recent years, too. We've had a wave of rookies coming to the league. league that are ready. They're ready to defend. They're ready to execute the game plan. They're ready to do different things on offense. It's just, I don't know. I don't know if it's just, I'm in two in the moment.

But I don't remember rookies being like this in the early 2000s, in late 2000s, even the early 2010 is not nearly as much as it has been the last four or five years or so. Yeah, I think, I mean, I'd be interested to hear what, you know, like, Charks or Kyle would say about it, you know, plug for upside high, everybody. Yes. But I wonder if as every, you know, like the warriors move to a switch everything defense, right? And then the Rock has moved to a switch everything defense. And I wonder to what degree that trickles down at like the college level or the grassroots level.

And if you're coming up learning how to defend different positions, learning how to sometimes you're in man, sometimes you're in zone, sometimes you're in a switch. Like learning just how to do different stuff earlier, maybe it's a little less foreign when you get to the lead. And maybe then that allows you to be a little bit. little more adaptable. Or, you know, if you are on some AAU teams or in some college structures, you're like, I'm the ball dominant guy all the time. Sometimes you're playing with four other guys who are going to go to the league, so you wind up sliding up off the ball. Or like USA basketball where a lot of these guys in the under 19s, like there's like a whole future all rookie team on the roster and you've got to learn how to get in where you fit in a little bit. Maybe that allows

for greater adaptability and sort of learning more skill sets earlier. I don't know. That's just kind of a theory or, you know, bounced it off the wall. But the result is a lot of guys seem more, you're right, seem more ready to go early and even seem like instead of hitting the rookie wall and sliding down it, like hitting the rookie wall, but then getting stronger the season goes on too, which is kind of wild. Yeah, I know I'm 100% with you. I think that's one of the factors. I mean, when people talk about, like, Steph Curry just tweeted about it the other night.

He's like, stop sending me videos of these kids shooting like, you know, long range jump shots and clanking saying, I ruin the game. Like, Steph changed the game on offense with the range, the way he's taken threes, the way he's shown the potential of the three-pointer, especially the dribble jumper. But Drayvon Green, in his own ways, kind of changed the way teams can defend. And the way, like you said, it might trickle down to lower levels where younger guys are having to play more versatile. Teams are playing more like opponents have to against goal and stay with more versatility.

the teams around the NBA felt like they had to do that. They saw how it can be effective to play that way. We'll see Dallas kind of test that out like we talked about earlier at the beginning of our conversation. They don't have size, but they have versatility. There's so many teams, Toronto, we talked about them, the clippers who we didn't get into. They could have the versatility as well. Teams are playing this way and kids are playing this way too. And I'm sure that that has to be playing into the way in which these guys are operating early

and they're in the NBA careers. And I'll tell you what, man. Like, I'm enjoying watching basketball now more than I have probably my whole life. Like the quality of player in the league, the depth of star talent, the depth of like good role players. Every team has something good to watch on it. There's something fun. There's something exciting. There's something that gives you hope.

And I can't think of a time in my life, a season in my life. a season in my life where I could watch all 30 teams and be like, yeah, I'm having a good time or this is entertaining. Even watching the Lakers fail, it is very, it is entertaining to see LeBron James get pissed off when Russell Westbrook's missing a defensive rotation or Carmelo Anthony's not helping on a drive inside of the room. It's just like, wow, it's something fun to watch with every team right now, man. See, here's what, here's what, here's.

Lakers fans, I'm just being honest. It's fun. Here's what I will be paying attention to. Like, the way that the wolves just acted out against the Lakers last night where it was like, just like Pat Bev going off and cat like making fun of it. The air ball? Yeah, looking for the wind and like cat getting fouled by LeBron and like cursing at LeBron as he walked away.

I'm like, if, because, and like the wolves are good, but they're not like, this is not like the sun's being like, we're going to joke on you because we beat you in the playoffs and whatever. This is like a middle, like a team that they might see in the play. So like if LeBron, like the thing that I will be watching is, A, is it now open season? Is everybody going to be doing this when they stomp on the Lakers? And B, the Lakers could see the wolves again in the play in, right? Like that could happen.

Is this like LeBron just winds up being like, all right, I am going to throw the gauntlet down on this. I don't know what else we can do this season, but I am going to make you pay for what you did. And like that, that will be entertaining in and of itself. But I don't know, yeah, the comedy timing of Pat Bev and Kat last night was, was unbelievable. It was fantastic. I'll tell you what, though. Take your shots now. Yeah, while you can.

Right. While you can, because it may not last long. It really might not. Maybe AD comes back and he's 100% healthy. Maybe Russ is like, you know what? I'll finally listen to the coaching staff and LeBron James and the podcasters and the writers. Yes. That'll be what it is.

Russell be like, you know what? I was listening to a podcast about me and here, this is what will change my mind. Yeah. He's like, oh, I realize I'm shooting only 11% from three, but I'm shooting over 60% from the restricted area. Maybe I just shouldn't take some of these careless floaters and pull up mid-range jumpers of 18 seconds on the shock. Maybe I should just pass the ball to somebody else. Maybe that's what you should do. Or he's like, you know what?

I'm due. I hear that. I hear 11% and I think that I'm going to shoot 90% for the rest of the way. Boy. You keep an eye on LeBron. When Russ shoots, I immediately my eyes dart to LeBron. Right. Immediately.

He knows. He knows when he talks about his quote about, well, Lakers fans can react to however they want to. They know good basketball. They know bad basketball. He is 100% talking about Russell Westbrook. 100%. This is the guy who said it's time to fit in or fit out.

He's always had these passive aggressive. of things that he does or tweets or says, this is who LeBron has been. It's his way of publicly saying stuff like that. Right or wrong, however you disagree, it doesn't matter. That's 100% about Russ.

And I just wonder, I think we're at the point where this locker room for the Lakers is just straight out broken. It's just broken. I think my theory, this is based on absolutely zilch, is that Russ is shooting for his action. the reason you said, Dan, he's trying to shoot through it.

He thinks he's due. And it's also a pushback against the forces telling him, your Westbrook stop shooting. You shouldn't be shooting. It's kind of like just a last hurrah here of the version of Russell Westbrook that we've seen in the past. But I don't think this version of Russell Westbrook can exist moving forward in any winning basketball situation. Do you want your Knicks to trade for Russell Westbrook this off season?

no no i don't want that kevin thank you so much for asking though uh how do you react if they do let's say wodge you know a couple months from now you get a a learn on your phone out of nowhere like one of those things that's out of nowhere the new york nix are in advance talks to acquire russell westbrook from the los angeles lakers what's your first thought in your mind fuck um uh i would i would say that maybe my first thought my gut reaction um yeah no it's just like you can't you can't you can't t it up kevin and say he can't exist in any winning basketball situation

and then go how would you feel if your team traded for him that's not maybe you want a tanking here maybe that's what you want another one yeah maybe i well just keep piling them on i'm going How many more these can we add on before I see something good? I would say, and do this, you'll appreciate this. The thing that I want more than anything else is if they're going to be bad, I'd like to see them be bad feeding RJ Barrett ball handling opportunities and surrounding them with shooters. Because I want to find out if you can make RJ Barrett into a star, right?

He's been moving in that direction for about two or three months, higher usage, more ball handling, getting downhill to the rim. Put some shooters around him, give him a role man, see what he can do. If we're going to be bad, let's be bad with a growth mindset, right? Russell Westbrook does not accomplish that goal, unless he's the role man, which I don't think that's going to happen. So that is like moving in that direction would make me sad, but also, this is we're talking about growth mindset.

I'm learning as I get older and I have other things to focus on, like my children and my family and these things, to decouple my happiness from the New York Knicks. It took me a long time to get here, but now I'm growing, I'm getting here. Last year was hard because it was like, well, now I do want a couple my happiness to the New York Knicks. And then very quickly this season, no, no, no, no. Get away from there. Eject. Pull the ripcord.

Get out of there. You don't need to do that to yourself. And Russell Westbrook, I think, would be a, would further allow me to view it analytically as opposed to investing my emotions into it. Maybe there's a silver lining to that. Has your fandom changed since you, you know, I mean, you've been writing a long time now. With Yahoo and now with the ringer, has your Knicks fandom changed as a result of working in sports and all? Or is it like more you said becoming a father and having more responsibilities?

But I guess has working in sports media changed your fandom? Well, it's yes, but I think maybe not in the way I expected. In part because like you know this. I mean, it's an every night thing during the season especially, right? Like you are almost always watching something. You're almost always reading something. it's a pretty consistent input. So I am less likely now, like during the off season,

to watch a Mets game or to check in on the Giants on Sundays or to watch the Rangers during the next season or whatever else. You know, like the sort of peripheral sports, like I'm, I now mostly just watch the NBA and very little else in terms of sports. Like I'll check in on other stuff sometimes, but I'm much more casual with that than I was

where I was a diehard about everything because there just isn't enough hours in the day for it. And the other part is, yeah, like, it's one thing if you're like, you know, your wife or your kids are like, what's up, what's the problem or what are you upset about? And it's like, I don't know, like this thing happened with work or the weight of the world or whatever. If you're like, I'm really mad because Tibbs just won't play the right rotations. Like your wife tells you, hey, get the fuck out of here. Like, no, all right. Go, go wash some dishes. Go do some laundry. Go play with your kids. Like, you cannot be carrying negative Tom Tibido energy into our family time. together when you are not working. So like, there, and I will say, the funniest thing anyone said to me about basketball this season. Tom Timito is ruining maverages in New York. That's what's happening.

It's a criminal. So the funniest thing anyone said to me about basketball this season, absolutely without a doubt, the first week of the season, I'm watching the Knicks. And if you remember the first week of the season, it was pretty good. And I look at my wife as she walks into the room and I'm like, hey, they're pretty good. And she goes, they're pretty good for now.

Pretty good for now. Don't like don't get yourself all excited about it. They're pretty good for now. And so then, oh, sorry. The dog now, everybody, that's Luger. But, yeah, they're pretty good for now. Don't get yourself all excited about it. And then two weeks later, she was, of course, 100% right,

as she has been throughout our life together. So there we go. There's somebody out there who saw the clip of Tom Tibido saying, Oh, Miles McBride needs to earn his minutes. He's earned, earn, earn, his own minutes. saying everybody else. I always played more young players than anybody else in the old league.

Somebody heard Tibbs say that. Like, honey, we're not having sex tonight. He's ruining marriages. I just can't. I mean, I think if that is what's leading

to the performance problems in the bedroom, and I would suspect there are other issues that you should address perhaps, perhaps with a professional. But, but then again, listen, not for nothing,

Nick's fandom in general should be addressed with a professional. And I don't know that. I don't know that I'm qualified to be the one providing that sort of advice. Oh, boy. I mean, I'll tell you what, though, like you said, it's about losing and focusing on growth's mindset. You do have, you know, Jericho Sims doing some good stuff off the bench. Don't you do this to me, Kevin?

Don't you sit there and try to tell me to get excited about Jericho. I'm not trying to get you excited. I've just listened some silver linings, which you will be writing about on the ringer.com. Silver linings for the 10 worst teams in the NBA. But the biggest silver lining. I'll plug in your stuff, Dan. You read so much great stuff for us. The Dallas article you wrote was awesome.

But it was just so thorough. But with the Knicks, though, the biggest silver lining is RJ Barrett. That guy has just been shredding for a couple of months now. Last thing I want to ask you about is just about RJ. Where are you at with him? What is his ceiling? Where is he going in his career? What is RJ Barrett going to be based off

the development we've seen from him through now three years in his career, and particularly the development we've seen from him averaging, you know, mid-20 point per game on greater efficiency the last two months. Yeah, I think it's encouraging to see that, like, he started the season playing off of Randall even more, and the jumper wasn't going. So then what did he do midway through the season? And Fred Katz, at the Athletic, got a great piece about it yesterday.

It was like, I'm going to the rim. I'm just going, I'm going to get downhill, and go to the rim, get, you know, two feet in the paint, get fouled or get a layup. And that's what I'm doing basically every time, or kick it out. I'm doing that every time. And he's like, I think I doubled his number of drives per game over the last couple of months. He's like, it's way up there. And so that is encouraging to you because it's like, I've diagnosed a problem.

And rather than just trying to do the same thing in the same way, I'm going to figure out another way to be productive. And that to me is like, all right, that's the kind of guy you want to be investing more in. You want to be giving him more reps, giving him more of the ball. The fact that it's, I mean, the three-point shot has come back around. It's not at 40% like it was last season, but I think it was down to 37 or so the last couple of months. The ceiling for me comes down to, is there a way for him? Can he like figure, you guess you can't like breed explosiveness into a player three years into his career.

He just, he doesn't finish well enough at the rim. When he gets there, the interior finishing is a real challenge for him because he can't explode up. through defenders. Getting better at drawing fouls though? Yes, yeah. He's combating that more recently by getting to the line more. And so like if you can't be a high 60s percent finisher at the rim, getting to the to the line seven times a game helps mitigate that somewhat.

But it also makes it harder to just, you are, you are an easier, it's an easier check in that way. So if it's the getting to the line is great. Now can you become an 80% foul line shooter as opposed to a 70%? tough to make those kind of jumps. But I think we're there with him. We know what kind of player he is. He's essentially like a down market point forward a little bit,

but who's got shake to his game, who can create, who's capable of running pick and rolls, capable of getting to the rim and the line. It's just you need all of those. He's made progress in all of those areas year over year, and it's just like it's one leap away from an all star, I think.

But that's like the toughest leap to make. So, I mean, it's exciting, but it's also like that is the it's a really hard jump to make uh but i mean the work ethic is there so i wouldn't bet against it then i want the nicks to be good not as much as i do kevin not as much as i do yeah i know definitely not as much as you do not not as much as any nix fan but i i want the nix to be good i like you bet i think back to bang bong first night of the season that video on the streets in new york and just the smile that put on my face just to see

Knicks fans happy. Just a rabid fan base of hardcore passion of fans that have been losing forever. When this team starts winning again and starts winning seriously, not even winning like last year where it was like, oh my God, they're winning.

I mean winning in the sense that we have a chance to do something special and go a long way in the playoffs type of winning. We can win the championship type of winning. When the Knicks are at that level, I can't imagine what the hysteria is going to be like around that fan base. So I'm just, I look forward to when that day comes.

It will come. We might be old and gray. I was going to say, but, but it can happen fast, dude. Like, can it happen fast? Has the NBA proven, if the NBA has proven anything to us, change can happen like overnight. Like from my fandom growing up, 06, 07, Celtics losing 18 games in a row. Then they get Ray Allen and then they get Kevin Garnett.

And then they start out like, 30 and two that season and they're a dominant force and I'm having the best time of my life after rooting for only, you know, losing or flawed Celtics teams throughout my youth and hearing about, oh, they'll never be like the days of Larry Bird and McCall and Parrish. Like I always heard that when I was a kid. And then they became great and they won a championship. And like, I've seen, I grew up the most spoiled Boston sports fan. Like, I could not have been born at a better time to root for the Red Sox, the

Patriots and the Celtics growing up. It's a good thing you're a nice guy because it would make you insufferable otherwise. Oh, I mean, I was insufferable. I was. I certainly was on the forums I was on growing up. I was certainly insufferable. I was the Boston, I was the mass hole because I was the guy on the forum rooting for the Boston sports teams. I was lucky.

But like the Celtics were the one, that one meant the most because of how bad they were and how great they became. and how sudden it happened. And, like, my, my experiences as a fan show, what we're seeing today, you know, the Grizzlies get Jock, the sons get Chris Paul. Like, things can change really, really fast for your team. And that's the one thing that I look at with a team like the Knicks, and I'm like, I don't know when it's going to happen.

Sure. It might not happen this decade, but it could. It can happen really fast. And I just look forward to that day to come because Nix fans remind me of a crazier version of me when I was younger. Well, I appreciate those well-wishers. There's a lot of years in this decade left, man. I don't know.

Hopefully sooner than not this decade. Do you think we finish this decade? Well, I don't know. In the time we've been talking, it might already be 2032. That's right. Dan, I really appreciate you join the void, man. This is great. Thanks so much, Kevin.

It was very nice of you to ask. Thank you for listening to this week. episode of The Void. A big thank you for Dan Devine for joining. Anthony Jesse Lopez for producing. Please give us a five-star rating on Spotify or Apple Podcasts wherever you're listening to the show. It really does help. Really appreciate listening. I'm looking forward to Friday and Tuesday with Chris Vernon.

Two more episodes of The Mismatch coming up. And then next week's episode of The Void, which will run on Wednesday for sure. It's going to run on Wednesday with two very, very special guests that I'm looking forward to. So stay tuned for that. I hope you have a great weekend. Thank you for listening again. Have a good one.