The Mismatch - Maxey’s Rise, Steph Needs Help, and The Clippers’ Problems

Episode Date: November 14, 2023

Heading into the second month of the season, Verno and KOC discuss a handful of teams whose stock is trending up, and which teams are trending down. Los Angeles Clippers (01:30) Philadelphia 76ers (14:29) Golden State Warriors (23:01) Minnesota Timberwolves (32:20) New Orleans Pelicans (40:19) Houston Rockets (49:40) Got a question for Verno and KOC? Send them an email at [e-mail]! Or you can send the guys a tweet @ChrisVernonShow and @KevinOConnorNBA! The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming, please checkout theringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What would you do if you got scammed? Would you suffer in silence, or would you do something about it? Well, I got scammed once, and this is the story of what I did. I'm Justin Sales, the host of the Wedding Scammer, a true crime podcast from The Ringer. And for seven episodes, we're hunting a comment. A guy with a lot of aliases, a guy who's ruined a lot of weddings. And with the help of some friends, I just might be able to catch him. Listen to The Wedding Scammer on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome to the mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon. And joining me as he does every Monday night from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, aka Kevin Obama, Kevin O'Connor, Kevin O'Col, Kevin O'Col, Kevin O'Colny, Kevin O'Brien, Kevin O'Brien, Kevin O'Brien, how are you doing today, man? What's up? I'm great. We are headed into week four of the NBA season.

And we are going to take account of some of the things that have taken place. So far this year with some stock up, stock down regarding some teams and some players. All right, I'm going to give you the choice. You want to start with stock up or stock down? Hmm. Let's begin with stock down. Stock down. All right.

Give me the bad news first. All right. The Clippers. So they lost to the Memphis Grizzlies when we last saw them. play, who were one and eight coming into that game. And I obviously, I watched this from buzzer to buzzer. And in the fourth quarter, I tweeted out the prayer emoji and said, Tylo, please put James Hardin back in the game.

In four games, since James Hardin has been a clipper in 67 minutes that he has not not been on the floor. They have won by 24 points. In the 125 minutes that he has been on the floor, they have lost by 67 points. Man, isn't that something? They are, they are atrocious to watch. Look, I was there watching that game. It's ugly.

I'm watching through the prism of watching the team that I cover, which was one and eight, and they made them look like... You got Jacob Gileard starting in the lineup. Together, cohesive, you know, fired up team. And, I mean, it started at the beginning of the game. Arden just pounding the ball into the ground, taking miserable shots and I'm like

how is this even possible remember when he like touched his bottom of his shoes and took the three air ball he gets it back and gets blocked by Beyondbo what the hell man they're terrible

they're terrible and I really don't know how they're going to figure it out in the absence of like they can't play all four of them and I've got to think they're watching it and going like, man, I don't know, I don't know how we're going to figure this out unless we like turn this over to him. Like, how are we going to get the most out of him? Now, his usage rate is not crazy high, but John Schumann had some really good stats in the article that he put out. And interestingly enough, the usage rate, which is for the,

for that team and its players. When they were announcing that they were going to bring James Harden, Ty Lou was pretty insistent that, like, hey, this team still runs through Kauai Leonard because Kauai Leonard is our best player. And the stats that Schumann had were that his usage is the one that has dropped. That it was at 28 and now it's at 22. And the craziest stat was, and this is like when we talk about how you need to have stars and you need to have role players, like, who are the guys that do all the other stuff? Before Hardin got there, there were almost 14 ball screens a game for Kawhi Leonard.

Since Hardin has been in that lineup, that's gone down to 6.8. Wow, isn't that something else? I mean, it's literally taking a role player that whose job is to... Having it. Yes, half now. It's the type of thing where, and we're seeing like all those guys. Paul George has talked about how he had the quote last week where he's talking about while I felt like I would need to be a role player, I'm out of rhythm.

You got Kauai talking about needing to figure out roles where he says all of training camp, we had these established roles and now you get to figure it out on the fly. a lot changes here and the guy that they get just isn't producing at all. Like Hardin, Hardin, I mean, look, you know,

like I say this all the time. I've always been the Harding guy on this podcast. That's obvious. Anybody's listened to us over the years. But he looks like he doesn't have the same level of burst right now off the dribble, even less so than last year, not getting to the rim as much. He's clearly not able to create as much space.

Defensively, he looks like even more of a liability. And he's just changing the way that offense plays because he's still playing the way that he typically always has. He's, you know, touching the ball a little bit less off, and he's taking a couple more spot-up threes, but he's still ball stopping. He's still, you know, pounding the air out of the ball.

And it's just not working the same way that it used to anymore. So I think with these guys, like Russ, the offense ran better, but it's not like Russ is necessarily the answer. That's why they went out and got hard. And I just, I think they're in a situation right now where, even though it's early and you're going to give them a chance and give them time, doesn't it feel like that these early signs may be some problems that

aren't solvable? Like what? Who's to say that Hardin just hasn't continued to decline physically even more than he did the last two, three years? Well, and look, Russ was taking on and we lauded him at the very beginning of the season when we watched him.

It's like, hey man, this guy's like kind of taking on more of the role. You've got the two stars. Those guys are the usage guys. Those guys were getting better shots than they had gotten at any time in their clipper careers, both Paul and Kauai. And a large part of that was Russ taking that severe backseat.

Usage rate plummeted. This is a guy that was in the 30s at one point in his life, but was down to like 17 or something. He knew that that was his role. It's funny, you brought up like, say, Jacob Gildyard, who was the starting point guard for Memphis in that game they won. Again, if you watch the team, though, it's like, Jacob Gilear's job is to get the ball to Desmond Bain and to get the ball to

Jaron Jackson and he knows that. He's a setup man. Everybody knows their role. Bismad Bionbo's job is to go grab rebounds and block shots and set screens and clear out the big guy for Jared Jackson or for Desmond Bain or like there is a pecking order with the team and then those other guys are there to serve the best players. And what I'm saying is Russ at least was getting to the point where he's, He understood.

All right. My job is to serve the best players. I'm not the best player on this team. Those two guys are. And so I'm going to try to make it easy for them. And that's the job of a role player. And in the absence of role players, like, it makes it that much more difficult for everybody. Because nobody is doing that stuff.

And that's why I highlighted the screen. That's just setting screens. who is going to set a screen. Zubats and then the what? It ends? Like Plumley's out now for goodness. So they got like PJ Tucker and Diabate for, you know, 20 minutes a game combined.

But like Zubots, Zubats, I'm curious about your thoughts on him. Like we're focusing on Kauai, George, Hard, and Russ. Zubots has this back injury. He looks completely limited compared to recent years as well. I mean, I felt like in that game yesterday, Bionbo looked like the better five.

And that's saying a lot, considering Bionbo just got signed out of free agency. And Zubots has been the Clippers starting center for years now. Zubots just has not been the guy for them anymore. And the issue for the Clippers is we have all of these issues. The issues with the stars needing to, you know, fill into a role on certain nights, figuring out roles, figuring out the rotation,

a lack of depth now after trading away everybody that they did, Tailu needed to figure out rotation. Zubat's injury, and then there's the lack of assets. They don't have anything to upgrade this team from what it is today. And that's the scary part here for the Clippers. It's like if Zubbots doesn't get healthy and Plumley's already hurt and Plumley is Plumley is nothing special, where's your answer at the five? Like how do you solve some of these big, long, versatile teams?

I just think the Clippers, it's very possible. This is actually not just the beginning and it gets better from here, but it's actually just the beginning of the end. And honestly, like, at the watcht it, what I would do is because I know, and the numbers are still good with Hardin off the court, Tilew, and everybody has said, oh, well, he's going to move Westbrook to the bench. That's how this is going to work. Maybe Westbrook won't even be on the team, whatever.

Like, I'm telling you watching that game yesterday, I was praying for that substitution. And that's what worries me about. the Tailu and how he's going to navigate this because to me the answer is put Terrence man back in get you a role player out there with Zubach

or whatever you want to do. And Harden off the bench? Yes and just let him run his just let him be James Harden. Yeah but the issue is but who's he's going to be his running mates if you have Hardin out there Bone Thailand is already a running mate I know but like Bone Thailand has already

been benched if it's Highland and Powell you're small, do you have enough defense off the bench? There's a lot of issues if you have Hardin coming off the bench. There's a lot of issues if you have Ross coming off the bench. But you're playing second units at least is what I'm saying. You're playing against second units. This all comes back

to the adaptation about James Harden. He has answered the questions about it after every single game. Clippers beat has done a really good job asking him questions about changing his game and evolving. The quotes last week and this week about the spot up threes where he catches the ball and doesn't just shoot cleanly off the catch.

He's shooting two per game. He should be shooting four or five or six catch and shoot threes per game. He's a 40% guy over his entire career. He's been a 40% guy, even as the shots have dwindled over the years. He needs to get back into that into his game because that is one skill he still has at a very high level is catch and shoot three point ability. So can he bring that back and at least can he be the guy who's serves the high-end role player role on certain nights because we know Paul George can hit

threes and cut to the basket. We know Kauai Leonard can crash the boards, the boardman gets paid and all that. We know those guys can. We know Russ can be the setup, man. James Harden needs to prove that he can do the little things as well. It's on Hardin to bring that back in his game. And I'm going to keep hammering that point all year because I know it's true. Well, and he's a pick and roll basketball player.

That's what he does. And there's nobody to run a pick and roll with. Well, that's the other part of it. You're right. Part of it is he doesn't have, he doesn't have his screener to have great chemistry with his lob threat. But when the ball, but we know like he can pass and throw kickouts and all that. We know he can do that and he will have moments to do that. But when the ball is in Kauai's hands and the balls in Paul George's hands, he needs to be ready to shoot off the catch.

What the crazy thing was. It's a pivotal, it's a pivotal skill for this all to work. It is the most important skill, in my opinion, for them to share and actually coexist the way they imagine it. to happen. Yeah, and I just don't think that this is like a short term, like, oh, they'll get it figured out. Like, I'm watching it yesterday and I'm thinking about something. I don't know how they get this figured out.

Like, you would think with the collection of talent, you'd get a better shot. All those guys, all the shots that are taking now are harder shots. Like, it looks like nothing is easy. Yeah. Because it's just also my turn, your turn. like if there was a third or fourth pass on a possession, I would have passed out from shock. Well, put it this way, right?

Like, how many times did I say to you in this whole drama before the trade? Well, Hardin's still one of the 30, 35 best players in the league. He hasn't been one of the best 50 or 60 since he got back, right? So it was assumed that he was still going to be the same quality that it was last year where he helped Joelle LeBeat to an MVP season, and he was a great playmaker. He still had some really good scoring nights. Hardin was like top 30, top 35 last season.

But right now he's like, I don't know. But he hasn't been one of the 100 best players in the league through the small sample thus far. And that like that more than anything else needs to improve for the Clippers. All right. We can kind of bounce back and forth because I don't want to just get overly negative for like a half an hour on the show. Let's do a stock up. Stock up for sure Maxie and the Sixers. I mean, they go.

Oh, yeah, that's the flip side of it, for sure. Look, all right. So, look, some of, it was Garth Brooks, who once said some of God's greatest gifts are unanswered prayers. And what an unanswered prayer. You think about a sliding doors moment, truly, with the Sixers. And how this, we, we, how many times do we talk about the guys and the, we, we, we, we, we, We say opportunity and fit.

And there's just no chance of the world. This is what the Tyrese maxi story is. If Hardin, you know, doesn't opt in and then signs a deal with the 76ers. If the Sixers get a deal done with James Hardin going forward. Like if James Hardin is still on the Sixers, this never happens in this way. It's just an impossibility. And yet, because of that moment and because James Arden is no longer part of this, they have found this, what we thought could be a star is playing at a bona fide superstar level.

They lost their first game of the season on opening night by one point. They have not lost the game since. And in their most recent game, they got a 50 piece out of Maxie. to go along with 37 for M.B. So they're simultaneously great. Attitudes great. Guys seem that Nick Nurse's offense is working unbelievably. And Maxie this year is now, you know, one of the steps to even becoming even greater than he was,

was, okay, what happens when the usage gets higher? Well, one of them was going to be finishing in the pain. He's now finishing 60% of his shots in the paint. He's averaging 29 points, 7 assists, 5 rebounds. He's also getting you a block and a steal, a block and a steal every game. And his assistive turnover ratio is now like 7 to 1, which is a huge increase. The shooting splits, 51, 43, on eight a game, 43% from three, and 93% from the line. I mean, these aren't like star numbers, Kevin.

These are superstar numbers that have taken place from Maxi. And what a gift, because now in the absence of Hardin, this team has been great. And they have opened up the doors. And Maxi has just walked right through them and become this, like, really, like one of the biggest stars in the league, 12% of the way through the season. The 50-point game is remarkable in so many different ways, his ability to score from all levels of the floor. But the thing that is still most impressive to me, this season from him, is not the scoring on a higher ball and with the efficiency. It's the high scoring and the high assists with the low turnovers.

You threw out all those numbers. The other one out there is only 1.1 turnovers per game. 1.1 turnovers per game for a guy who's shooting over 20 times per game, logging over 7 assists per game. The dude does not make mistakes out there. And this is somebody who went to the NBA as combo guard. He's an undersized two. can he be a one? Well, he sure looks like a guy who can be the one for the Sixers, especially

with the way they're playing, sharing the ball, running more dribble handoffs with Embed, which is one of the most potent ways of creating offense for Maxi with that two-man combination, running pick and rolls together. Maxi's not making mistakes out there on the floor. And so you talk about the scoring, the passing is so much better, he's become very clearly the second best player on the Sixers behind Embedd. And so now when you look forward for this team, as good as they are, as well as the offense is being run, as great as the defense still is, for Darrell Mori and that Sixers front office,

if they make a trade ahead of the deadline, it's about finding the third guy. Now, not a second guy. It's the third guy or a bunch of supportive high-end role players. So I think for the Sixers, I said to you before the Harden Trade, you know, like they're going to be patient finding the right deal

because this is what's going to continue, make them into a championship contender or not. I think the response to that, that I saw on social media was like, they're not on the same level as Boston or Milwaukee. Do you think now that it is clear that they are? Have we seen a big enough sample that they are on the same level? Because I believe that they are,

and I think they already are, even without a trade. I thought it was fascinating. I was watching the Celtics and the Knicks tonight, and Gorman and Scalabrini were talking, you know, the game had kind of gotten out of hand late in the game. And there's a game coming up against the 76ers. and they were both commenting that they thought especially with

you know the kind of the mess that's been going on in Milwaukee thus far they thought that the 76ers are the ones and obviously the 76ers beat them earlier this year but that that was that was going to be the Celtics biggest competition in the east and that was the Celtics announcer saying that. Yeah I think

I think that could be very true because of the bucks are still so many questions. There's Adrian Griffin with his system. The defense still looks like a mess even if after they reverted back to some of the stuff from last year. Middleton's still in a minute's restriction. Lillard out. Lillard out. Brooke Lopez

without Drew Holiday fighting through screens in those pick and rolls have not been quite the same level defensive player individually. So there's a lot of questions there with their depth, with their star depth behind Janus. Yonis, like even I mean, as amazing as he still is,

is still not, doesn't feel like without his supporting cast able to reach the best player in the world level that we had seen in previous years when he actually had support. He's been turning it over a lot. Yeah, very sloppy at times. Yeah. You know, and the only thing is 76ers, I mean, the thoughts with Kelly Ubrae, who we have lauded and praised. And then that story comes out about him getting hit by a car yesterday. I'm like, what in the hell?

And a hit and run, too. It's disgusting. And the guy had been so great for the Sixers thus far. He was the guy that actually they used to guard Tatum in that Celtics game, you know, but he had just been, he'd been playing the best basketball. He was his life leading into this. And just good vibes, certainly with the 76ers. And wow, you just never know the way this stuff's going to play out.

But in the absence of Hardin, Maxi has just turned into the star of all stars and better than anyone could have ever imagined, at least of the first nine games of the season. Cash in on bawling out this NBA season with Fandul, America's number one sports book. Right now, new customers get $150 and bonus bets with any winning $5 money line bet. That's $150 if your team wins.

So there's some money lines that I like on Tuesday night with the in-season tournament games back, including the magic over the nets, the Timberwolves, over the ones. Warriors, and those are two underdogs, so let's go with one favorite here, the heat who are very hot lately over the Charlotte Hornets. So if you've been thinking about joining Fandul, there's no better time to join. The app is easy to use, and there's a wide range of ways to bet including quick bets,

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Bonus issued is not-redubable bonus bets that expire seven days after a seat. See terms at sportsbook.fandle.com. Stock down. Let's do Warriors. So they're on a three-game losing streak. They've lost four or five. And it's going to be fascinating to watch them play against the T-Wolves, who we'll talk about here in a little bit.

They played them again. And I love these kind of setups because, as Steve Kerr said, this is more like playoff basketball, right? Instead of bouncing from team to team like you do so many times over the regular season, when you play a team and then you play that team again in your next game, now you get to go and look at the tape and make adjustments and play that team again. And it does kind of mimic some of what we get to see when we get to the playoffs. So I'll be very fascinated to see how the Warriors look and how. how they look different for the Tuesday game.

But Kerr's comments also were about how there was no question that they needed some scoring and some playmaking elsewhere. So now we talk about everybody not named Curry. I have some crazy stats for you, Kev. Fire them away at me. Who is about Wiggins, Green? No, no, no. No. All right. So this year, there has been one player not named Stefan Curry that has scored 20 points in a basketball game. Oh, it's a surge, right?

On November 30 at 20. And he's the only one on the Warriors that has had 20 besides Steph. He's the only one. That is something else, man. And this was an ESPN stats and info that I ran. and Kendra Andrew's article, this one is mind-blowing. Okay. Saturday night was the fifth time in 11 games this season that Steph Curry has doubled his closest teammate in scoring.

That is more times than it happened all of last season. Wow. Five times in 11 games. games, he has had more than double the next guy on his team. And then, you know, I mean, when you look into this. He just doesn't have, he doesn't have that, like, Clay's not that second score or anymore. Well, look, dude, your wings are, like, you got Clay who's 43%, 35% from the field. Kaminga, 39% from the field, 18% from three.

Been off. Wiggins, 41% from the field. 15% from 3 Chris Paul 39% from the field 16% from 3 And it was like Paul's going to run that second unit

They're bench scoring Like if you were to just say like Oh this bench scores a lot Which they do They score I think they're like fifth or sixth in the league They are inefficient as hell

they are 24th in field goal percentage as a bench and they are 25th in 3 point percentage as a bench. So they do score, but that's because they play minutes. They don't score it at a good rate. And it's like Curry and everybody else, truly, everybody else. And I mean, that Sorich thing is insane. how he's the only guy that's had 20 20 points is not a lot to have it a game

there's gonna be 50 guys in the league that average 20 points a game more than that maybe a lot of guys get 20 20's not what it once was no not at all they've only had a guy score 20 once that's not named I mean just and so

I guess the question is where where does it come from I mean Steve Kerr in that Presser you're talking about was like asked specifically about Pajimski and Jackson Davis. They're two rookies. Their first and second round draft pick about can these guys get minutes and Kerr's like, well,

it's kind of hard with a 10 man rotation. And I like all the guys I play, he said. Yep. And I understand. That's cool. However, you also have. They all stink so far. Yes.

You also have Andrew Wiggins playing 10 minutes more than Moses Moody, who's been better than him not even arguable this season. Right. So at one point do you say to Wiggins, well, I mean, you got outperform Moody. It's still early on. I can understand Kirst sticking with the vets for now. But at the same time, Trace Jackson Davis has looked great. Defensively, he looks versatile.

Offensively. He's already a very intelligent screener, great finisher at the basket. Pajimski looks like he's ready to energize an offense coming off the bench as a playmaker and as a score as a connective piece. He looks like somebody that could fit like a Livingston X-esque role next to Stefan Curry, that type of deal. Moody looks like he's better than Wiggins. And Kamenga, I mean, like hopefully he figures it out, but maybe he won't ever. I just think if you're Kerr at some point, you've got to play some of these young guys and see if they can inject some energy into this rotation.

Because, look, Clay Thompson's not the same guy anymore. He's just not. Clay's not a second score anymore. But I also say this. I'm also going to give Clay a little bit of a break, okay? And just say. That he's had cold streaks like this before? No, also, look, you trap or you run to or you try to shade over,

Curry gets all this attention, right? And you face guard Clay. And there's nobody else. I understand. And part of it, part of it is because Draymond is treated as a zero. But he kicks out. He does kick a he passes, but I'm just saying like that is part of it. That is how their offense works, though.

Like, Curry's at the top. I throw it to the, right? I throw it to the elbow to Draymond. Or I throw it to the top of the key to Draymond. Draymond comes in and then he kicks it out to somebody. And he doesn't kick it out to anybody that can make a shot. My point is for a guy who gets so many touches, it'd be nice if he were additionally a scoring threat.

It would add a lot to their offense if he could provide that. The other thing is their transistors defense continues to just be horrendous. It was a problem for them last year, right? And so they got a couple problems. A, they can't shoot. B, they're small. And C, you know, that defense, which they've really been able to hang their hat on. Not necessarily very potent either.

So they got to, they got some real figuring out to do. But look, they're always one that you give them the benefit of the doubt. Right. It's just... Surely all these guys can't keep shooting under 40%. That's ridiculous. It's fair, but I said to you after the first game in the season, our first pod, I said how it feels like the Warriors are too small to be on the same level as some of these other championship contenders.

I've still felt that way through some of the good moments they've had this year. And now there's more reasons for concern with them with everything that we've been talking about here. you can't win small anymore if you're them. Like not in that same way. Like part of, you know, they could run you off the court by playing small with the Dramon thing, obviously. But like, you got to have shooting. That's how they did it. Right?

It was these scoring tsunamis that would hit you where it's like, okay, they're down by two. And you blinked and they're up by 12. and you're like, what the F just happened? They just had a two and a half point or two and a half minute stretch. But if Curry's the only one that makes any shots, unless he's the one dropping the 14-0 run on you, it's not happening. Sure. You know?

One good thing with them, and I'm not sure who it would be. But with those young guys we're talking about and with their draft picks that they have, they are a team that's equipped to make changes. They could use the Wigan salary and flip it at some. point. They have tradable contracts. They have tradable young players that would appeal to other teams. So that's the one thing for the warriors to think about when it comes to the situation as is. Dunleavy in that front office could decide to shake things up. And that's what might be necessary to force Steve Kerr to make changes within the lineup. If he's not going to move a guy

out of the rotation, you move the guy for him and force him into something else. So that's what I would expect to happen if these low times continue for them. And it's just a bad week. You know, I mean, like a lot of these teams, a lot of these teams have been going through it. But, but, Wiggins, Wiggins hasn't been good all year.

He missed three months last year. It's like, you know, there's concern. The scoring thing is a thing. Like, who is the other guy that is reliably going to be scoring? Yep. You know, we're talking about like, there's a lot of size with the best teams, one of which is those T-wolves, the wolves, and Anthony Edwards,

who has another ascension into superstardom, it feels like. He's averaging 28, 6, and 5 on 49% from the field. The aforementioned Warriors is the last one that he did in, and he was matching curse words with Draymond Green, which is no small task. 33, 7 and 6 against the Warriors. They got the number one defense. They're four and one against winning teams.

And most people, if they're picking the finals, you know, this 12% whatever it is through the season, it'd be Nuggets and Celtics. And they got wins over both of those within those four, right? So they've got the best record against good teams, thus far. And the defense has been great. Obviously, Gobert and the big time guards they've got that could guard on the perimeter

have done an unbelievable job of keeping people out of the paint. And then when they do get in the paint, they score at such a low rate. And teams have missed a million threes against them this year, which will, that's going to change a little bit. But they do limit corner threes. and so if you limit corner threes and you protect the rim, that's all going to add up to you have the number one defense. And the biggest thing as opposed to years past is they don't foul like they did.

You know, they've done a very good job of being awesome defensively without putting teams on the line all the time. They were just an absolute foul fest in recent years. And that is just not the same. And so they have been super formidable. Mandy, watch them, and they are big. They've got a superstar level closer in Edwards now. And they've just got a lot of things that cause a lot of problems for opposing teams.

Not the least of which is that just they feel, it feels like overwhelming size. Truly. And Kat's gotten going. Your boy, last three games, he's been really good. Yep. And he's been good in his role defensively, too. You've got to give Kat credit. He's playing the role well.

It sure as hell is a lot better than it was at the start of last season, right? For sure. And look, the numbers with him and Gobert on the court have not been nearly as clunky as they were last year. It's, uh, it feels like they figured out, you know, it took a while. And they had a lot of injuries last year. Cat was out for the season. So you didn't get a lot of reps together. But there's clearly Edwards and everybody else.

Well, the one name you didn't mention either was Mike Conley, your former love of the Grizzlies, talk about a guy playing his role as the setup man, hustling, playing hard as a smaller guard, you know, best he can on defense and being the setup man on offense. He's done a good job with the role given to him. And, I mean, I think for Edward... Thank God, Chris Paul didn't break his leg the other night, barreling into him. I know, I know. That was ridiculous.

And the thing with Edwards is, like, as young as he is right now, it still feels like he's still not where he will be at some point. He's 22 years old. I know, I know. He's only 22. And the thing about him, like, I just pulled up his numbers on Synergy Sports, he's only in the 23rd percentile and scoring efficiency out of isolations. He's shooting 13 of 38 out of isolation so far this season, which is not good.

But he's been good in everything else. So I think with him, like, there's still. room for him to grow and it's such a small sample size at this point. But point being as good as he is, as many boxes as he's checking, there's still more room for him to get even better as a player. This is similar to like three years ago, four years ago with Tatum, where he was good at everything, but he's still inefficient in isolation. He's become a very efficient player out of ISOs. With Edwards, he's been more efficient past season. I'm sure he'll tick up. But it just speaks to how great he is right now where he's an all NBA. guy without a doubt. And yet you're like, hmm, could he even reach a higher level by March and April towards the end of the season? And that's what makes the wolves so intriguing because perfect segue. Finch's comments after that Warriors game, he's like, you know, the trick for us is

getting better while we are winning, right? Because he said there's tons of meat on the bone was the term that he used. And he said, you know, he's talking about that Warriors game and he just was not satisfied. He was like, we were out rebounded. We turned it over. We didn't make easy offensive plays. He's like, there's just a lot of room for growth with this team. And obviously that's something you always want to preach if you're a coach, even if it's going well for your team as to, you know, fend off complacency.

But also it's still in that team like, hey, we are nowhere near what we can't. and B and get them still believing that, right? Like, hey, look at all these things we messed up. Now, they still ran off a win against a Warriors, but him, you know, explaining to them, you know, hey, they're like, we can, we're playing really well. We can be a lot better than what we are. And I actually believe him.

Like, they can be pretty devastating when it all comes together, uh, for sure. And if they, I, uh, not going to. on wood. I'm sorry. I'm not trying to jinx this. I want this to happen. If they win against the Warriors on Tuesday night, that will be a seven-game win-street that they would have. That is the longest win streak for Minnesota since 03-04 when they went to the Western Conference finals. Wow They have not had a seven-game win streak In 20 years 20 years

That's unbelievable isn't it Wow Unbelievable 20 years Since they've had a Seven-game win streak Man I was shot

Aren't they an easy team to root for As well It's all and I mean It's just so likable It's all and Oh, no, Gobert's not likable and Towns isn't likable. Conley is.

Conley is for sure. Chris, how can you not respect Gober's defense, though? Come on. There's a difference between respecting something and being likable. Those guys are not likable. You don't like watching him defend the rim? No one has ever bought a Gobert jersey. I'd wear a Goberr jersey.

I know you would. If the T-Wolfs send me a jersey signed by Rudy-Gobarer. I'll hang it up there. I'll hang it up on my wall. I bet you would. Send me a signed Rudy-O-Ber jersey. I'll hang it up on my wall to anybody with the Timberwolves. Oh, my God.

I'll hang it on my wall and display it over my shoulder for you to look at. Minnesota, don't even think about doing this. I'm not, I'm not recording this pod every week if I got to look at that every week. This is the only Christmas present I'm asking for, Santa. Please, Minnesota. I don't ask for much. All right. Last stock down.

Pelicans and Zion. Okay. It's five straight losses. And honestly, only the Houston game was close. The rest of them, they're just run out. They've been down by 18 points or more six times already this season. T. Wolves had him down by 30. Mavs had him down by 30.

I mean, and I was run over by the Pelicans team account and by Pelicans fans and by their color commentator and by everyone else for being the bozo that was saying, hey, I watch them. This chemistry's weird. And so they were hashtag and be weird chemistry and Trey Murphy tweeted at us and Larry Nance and everybody else. And then last night, one of the Pelicans fans said, hey, I think we all owe Chris Vernon an apology. It's apology I'll probably wait for for the rest of my life. But when I say stuff and I watch a team and I see teams literally three times a week and I watch how they interact with each other and I notice something weird, I'm going to say it. It's not because I don't like your team. It's because I'm seeing what I'm seeing.

And now Zion Williamson walks into a press conference. And he says that he's trying his best to buy in. And he's taking a back seat. And, you know, Jordan Hawkins, who had 31 against Denver, that's six more points than Zion scored in any game this year. And the Zion Ingram thing is a disaster, an absolute unmitigated disaster. All the Pelican fans that love to clip everything

and take things out of context, you can take this one. With Zion and Ingram on the court, their offensive rating is 103. The worst team in the world is the Portland Trailblazers. Their offensive rating is 105. So the chemistry that I was told was the best in the league.

and what I was beaten down for and ridiculed by even the social media manager that I suppose did not have anyone else to go after. Look, there's a Taylor Swift song called Karma, and I'm a fan of it. And it's a great track. Might apply. Might apply. Five straight losses, but the good thing is they've got Dallas, Denver, and the wolves ahead so things will probably get better quickly get off my nuts and I was right

that's all you said everything there is to say um the only thing I'll add is this Zion talks about trying to buy into the role he probably wants to run more pick and roll and have more creation opportunities that's probably what he wants the here's the thing the only role he wants has butter on it Did you watch it? I know the quotes were going around everywhere. Did you see the, did you see the press conference?

Anybody can type in his name and watch it. Why is he so out of breath? He's breathing like he just ran a sprint in the press conference. I'm trying to buy in. You know, we had a team meeting. I'm like, what in the heck is going on? The game's been over for an hour. Why is he, is it from the steps to get up to the podium?

Well, as someone trying to lose weight, I can understand the difficulties in avoiding good food in a great food city. New Orleans po-boy, delicious. The thing is, is with him wanting, you know, a different type of role, this season, in the half court, The numbers just aren't anywhere near as what they were in the past. During the 21 season, the first year he made an all-star team, he was 61% at the rim in the half court.

This season, he's down to 50%. He's not as explosive vertically. He's not bouncing off guys the same way he was before. And he also doesn't have the same burst off the dribble either. That same season in 2021, he shot 58% on isolations, 54% on post-ups, Drew falls on nearly a quarter of those possessions, according to Synergy.

This season, he's down to 44% shooting out of isolations, 28% shooting out of post-ups. Free throw rate is more than half what it was before. So he might want more pick and roll chances than Willie Green's offense and all that. But with the opportunities he's been given, the areas he was very, very good in the past, he's been subpar.

He's just not the same guy right now. Oh, and he's lazier than hell. If you saw that Dallas game, I mean, Grant Williams is just like, running around him. It was just like, it's some indefensible stuff. It's crazy. Stock is probably down more on Zion than anybody that we're talking about here.

He doesn't even get like he doesn't even get defensive rebound. Especially because remember, you know, preseason and training camp, they're like, oh, he took his health and conditioning more seriously this summer than any time ever before. Well, it doesn't look like it physically, but also just the way he's performing on the court. And look. It's not close.

Look, here's the thing. They need, they're ravaged with injury. Alvarado would help a ton. Murphy would help a ton. Big time, yes. CJ, just having them there. Look, they are ravaged. They're ravaged.

The problem is they weren't good with all their best guys either. Like the numbers with those guys, right? They've got this, quote, dynamic duo that doesn't work. Yes, exactly. It comes down to them. It's the stars. That's what it comes down to. And that was who, I didn't even.

to see them interacting with each other. Like, they've got a weird deal. And the games just don't mesh. A choice is going to have to be made. And you know, I've always been an Ingram guy since pre-draft. He's shooting 21% from three this year. He's passing up open shot opportunities from three to take contested mid-range jumpers.

The decision-making's been very poor. He had a possession the other night where he dribbled the ball for like 18 seconds, didn't make a single pass, just hoisting. it up, a contested mid-range jumper. Not a single pass. Not a single pass through the whole possession. And I think Ingram's play has just been

ugly to watch as well. And that duo does not seem like it's going to work. How long are we until Zion starts doing the, it becomes the next guy to say I want, you know. Mid-December. The CIA guy now, right? Like I mean... Yeah, mid-Dcember, if it doesn't get better

by then, once it's trade season, then sure, that the issue is, is we just had a summer where teams were like, eh, about the possibility of trading for Zion. So, like, who is the team that would actually step up for him? I guess that's the discussion for another day. We'll see how this continues for New Orleans, but I'm definitely worried.

I'm bored. Would you take Randall and stuff? I don't know. If that's his desired destination? I don't know. I mean, to me, like, I think. He was actually really good in New Orleans, and I think the fans like him there.

If I'm trading for Zion, I'd probably want to be, I'm not saying I wouldn't trade for him if I'm the Knicks, but if I'm trading for Zion, I'd prefer to be a younger team that can afford to miss. Like if you're the Spurs,

right? You bring him in and have him in a front court with Wembe, that type of thing where it's like, if Zion gets hurt and doesn't work out, okay, whatever, we still have a lot of time and a lot of years I had to build

the right roster around him. Like if a team, like the Blazers wanted to go, after him. Like that to me is Charlotte types of the world. Chicago blowing it up and having Zion come in. Like that's, those are the teams that make sense to me more than the playoffs. And the only reason we're talking about this, look, like I am always, I want the guys to stay in the small markets. I want them to

thrive in the small markets. The reason we're bringing this up is because the guy went into a press conference and said, I'm trying to buy in. I'm trying to. It's fair game after those comments. Yeah, you're putting out. You're putting out right there, your level of discontent. you know, on your plight. What's going on? Especially the tone of voice that he said it. Yeah.

Not just because he was huffing and puffing, but like just like he genuinely. He really was. Why was he so under breath? I don't know. But besides that, like just he genuinely, Zion is a very easy to read guy. Like when you,

I interviewed him last year, he's a genuine kid. Like he's true to himself. Like you can tell when he feels a certain way about a question or whatever. Like you can tell he's emotional and he's kind of bought in. He's sensitive about it.

He doesn't work as hard as he should, but he's sensitive about it. He clearly, clearly doesn't feel good at what the situation right now. Like the feelings that you saw on that podium are very real. All right. And last stock up. The Houston Rockets.

Speaking of wind streaks, I got a six-game. Way up. Rocketing up. 34-point drubbing of the Lakers, wire-to-wire. Beat the nuggets. And earlier, we talked about God, what a blessing from heaven it was for Maxie to get the opportunity because of something that did not take place with James Hardin.

You cannot watch the Rockets. And I heard my buddy Tim McMahon mentioned this and not think about how sometimes, like we were saying earlier, some of God's greatest gifts are unanswered prayers. Brooke Lopez left him at the altar. they thought they were getting Brooke Lopez. That was a rumor for six months. And then it came down in free agency and then Brooke ended up resigning with Milwaukee and staying with Yonis. But Houston, everybody at Houston, everybody knew they wanted them and everybody knew that that's probably what was going to happen in the offseason. And you think about that happening and getting left at the altar and the Shengun thing doesn't happen in the same way.

It just doesn't if they go and they spent that money and they don't. get Brooke Lopez. If Brooke Lopez signs that dotted line with the rocket, you're not getting this Shengoon explosion, which has been 19 points a game, eight rebounds, six assists, and their defense has been good now. I mean, it's by far the biggest improvement in the NBA from last year. Part of that is they just strangle you out in transition. You don't get any buckets. I think Denver had 11 transition buckets the other night. And so they make it a hard game for you. They make you run a play to score.

And Udoka has done a good job. They've got Van Blyte, who's doing exactly what you envision Van Blyt doing, which is able to settle that thing down and run that team. Dylan Brooks has been fantastic for them. if I told you I could not resent that more, it's true. I mean, look, the other night, their game, he took six shots in the game. When I tell you on my local show, there wasn't a day that went by, I would say either make more or shoot less. That's all I ask.

Now he's doing both. That's all I ask. That's all I ask. That's all. That's all I ask. You could be an amazing role player. Make more or shoot less. And it's everything I always wanted him to be.

And it's happening in Houston. And it drives me crazy. He took six shots the other night in their last win. Do you know how many times he took six shots with the Grizzlies? It happened three times last season. The year before, it happened one time. Oh, my goodness. Hey, the year before, it happened no times.

in three seasons, he took that amount of shots four times. On a team that had Jabberant, Desmond Bain, and Jared Jackson, Jr. He had a wake-up call clearly this offseason to adapt to this role, to shoot less and make more. His shot selection has been really great. He's a great role player. He always could have been a great role player. I know. What the hell?

He's figured it out. It's the most annoying thing in the world. He has always been stellar defensively. Always. Super impactful. Like, there's no doubt, like, anytime you're that great defensively, like, I joke this offseason, like, I wouldn't want him on the minimum. Of course, you take any player as great as he is to a minimum contract.

I wonder if the Rockets had some type of intel that Dylan Brooks is ready to accept the lesser role and play smarter basketball. I wanted to give in the contract that they did because right now it looks completely reasonable. Maybe it was never going to happen. If you're the elder statesman and you're the guy, you know, it'd be kind of like anybody. Let's say you're the guy. You were employee number one at the company, right? You can do you can do it your way.

You've been there the longest and you're the kid, right? And then you say this all the time and I get it. But at the same time, and then you go to a new job. But then you go to a new job. But then you go to a new. job and it's like, okay, I got to fit in here. Sure. Sure. I do think that there's. I think there could be something to that, but at the same time, like, he's also going to realize that in his old job, other guys surpassed him, which is what made it so frustrating with him in Memphis. That's what was

so endlessly annoying watching him with the grisleys, where he just didn't get that. So yeah, maybe that is an element to it for Dylan Brooks specifically. And I'm glad he, I'm glad he, I'm glad he does get it because it's turning into great team basketball by the Rockets. Their defense, like with guys like Jashon Kate coming up the bench, Tari Yason, very good. Jeff Green was great the other night. Shengoon has been really rock solid defensively. That's been the weakness for him in past years. We always knew that dude could pass and playmaking and rebound and all that. But defensively, he's been very good protecting the basket on top of everything else. I'll tell you this. my producer, John

Roser, who is the he calls the Memphis Hustle games. They played the Rio Grande Valley Vipers over the weekend. And I mean, the text he was sending me, he's like, oh my God, Cam Whitmore. Yeah. He played two games over the weekend.

I mean, big time and both. Whitmore is just like a different caliber of athlete than what's there on regular occasion. And special, he's a possible special talent too. And so I don't think this Rockets thing is like an early season swoon.

I think they're good. I do. I think they're good. I don't think it's just, I think that EMA's got them playing. There's a lot of things they do that I think can be replicated. And I think there's a reasonable chance. They're like a big surprise team this year. They got good player.

They got good players and they play hard and they defend. They've got kind of like an edge to them now. Well, that comes from Udoca, comes from Brooks, Van Bleet, all those guys. But of those, you say either or not a fluke, I agree with you. Of the teams in the West right now, Denver's the one seed, Dallas is the two. And then Minnesota, Houston, OKC. That's your top five, followed by more of these teams that have been there, the Warriors, Lakers, Kings, Sons, and then Pelicans are currently the 10.

Of those three big surprises, Minnesota, Houston, and I mean, OKC is not really a big surprise, but they're a younger team. Of those three teams, Minnesota, Houston, OKC, do you think all of those three stay in the top six with a guaranteed playoff spot, two of the three, one of the three? I'd say Minnesota is a for sure thing.

They're the only for sure thing. And then of Houston and OKC, they're kind of on that bubble for a guaranteed spot with the top six. That's right. I just think there's going to be, look, I do not think, look, you think about this, and you guys are goofing, there's only 14 teams in the league that have winning records right now. And like, you think about how miserable and how much we've goofed,

and you guys have goofed on me about the Memphis season, there's like three games out of like the six seed. Like this thing, like, it's not that everybody's so good. And so it's going to take a year. ton of wins to have a good seed. It's that they're all going to beat each other up throughout this season. And there's going to be, like, there's going to be a bunch of teams hovering a couple games over 500 at the end of this, you know?

I don't know what the number is that's going to be able to get you into the play in, but it's not going to be that high because I do think that there's, you know, you see these weeks and look if we would we did these pods like early and it was like wow look the warriors look awesome and now the warriors look like crap and i think it's gonna be like that all year like we could do a pod in a week and houston's like oh man that maybe that was a flash in the pan you know they went and then they played the you know because i actually would be desponded if i were them right now it's like they got this huge wind street going on they beat charlotte they beat Sack, they beat the Lakers, they beat New Orleans, then they got that win against Denver.

And that was yesterday. And now they're off until freaking Friday. I know. This is not the time you want to have. And then you're going to come back Friday and you're at Clippers, at Lakers, at Golden State, Memphis, Denver. And it's like, I mean, I don't know. I do think that, again, they're not going to be bad is what I'm saying. they're going to be good and they're going to be in the mix.

And they'll be able to, they'll have good weeks and they'll have bad weeks. And I don't think most of these teams are going to be going on super long win streaks or winning nine out of ten on regular occasion. It might happen here and there. But when you were talking about those teams, Minnesota is 100% a top four seed. my opinion. The other two, they're in the mix with kind of everybody else. But Minnesota, I've seen enough. They're going to be one of the home court advantage teams to me.

Might have the best record in the West. It's possible. We talked about that when we did our game last week. Briefly, if you want to do any other stock up, stock down, I mean, we covered so many of them. I mean, obviously the Lakers thing and seeing them without Davis, they couldn't defend you. I think it's somewhere like the, like the lesser known players, like the Jalen Johnson types. Oh, yeah. Guys like that who are getting new roles, the guys who have stunk in the past, but now are playing pretty well, a killing in Hayes type.

Oh, God. Are you kidding me? No, I'm not killing you. Do you not see that meme that was going around yesterday with him and Kay Cunningham? They were calling them the ass brothers, the opposite of the Splash brothers, the ass brothers? I didn't see the meme, but, I mean, it's. It's not fair to kill him. Yes, it is.

I ask brothers. It's not fair at all to him. Over his last six games, he's averaging 15 points, 39% from three, 5.7 assists to only 0.5 turnovers per game and playing good individual defense on top of that. I'm talking about like those are the stock ups, the stock downs where some of these kind of lesser known players. Like, Jaylon Johnson, he's got a role in Quinn Snyder's offense. and he's been absolutely sensational for them. He was awesome in Summer League two years ago. Yeah.

And just did not play at all last year. Exactly. And now he's having games where he's dropping 20 points. Yeah. And he's got the ball in his hands. He's crashing the boards. He's averaged an eight rebound per game, three assists per game,

14 points per game. Jalen Johnson has been absolutely outstanding for the Hawks. Well, and on the flip side, in terms of guys that have been playing, the you mentioned okay see they got some figure

not to do on the giddy thing giddy's the trade piece simple as that they just got some figure not to do because of the the Gilges Alexander

numbers without giddy on the court you know the team has been really good and like for whatever reason they got a trade giddy for a big they have a big

next to Chet Holmgren in the front court man I don't want to you want to Trade him? Yeah, I trade Giddy. Trade Giddy. I like Giddy a lot.

It's nothing against him. A heartbeat. I love Giddy. It's nothing against Giddy individually as a player. Sounds like it. No, it's not about the greater good of the team and probably the greater good for his own career too. It's not a great fit for him.

It's year three, Chris. That contract is coming up very, very soon for Giddy. I think you could, I think you could really regret moving him. I do. Maybe not. through it. Yeah, I think you pull the trigger on that. Maybe you don't, maybe you don't regret it. out first because that kid is a talent,

man. I love it. I don't know. I don't know. I don't think the fits great. And I worry about the jumper. He had a great stretch last season where he shot like 20. I know. He's just a kid. I worry about the jumper. Oh. I love him. Me too.

Me too. And sometimes to win championships, you've got to move pieces that you love for pieces. that make more sense for you. And then you fall in love with those pieces too. And then the cycle begins. And then someday you're going to trade those pieces and get new pieces. That's what team building is.

And I think with Giddy, he's a great, great young player who's going to have a long, successful career. But it might not be in Oklahoma City. All right. I'd take him in a minute. And that's why OKC, if they did make him available, could probably get something really, really, really good in return. turn that makes more sense next to SGA,

Chet, and J-dub. Zion Williams? All right. Kevin is always a pleasure. Thank you to our executive producer, Jesse Lopez, as always. Kevin, I'll talk to you next week. I'm very much looking forward to it, man. Actually, not next week.

It's this Friday we'll be talking. Yeah, that's what I meant. It's see you Friday. Must be 21 plus in President's Select States. Fandul is offering online sports wagering in Kansas under an agreement with Kansas Star Casino LLC. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler or visit fandul.com slash RG in Colorado, Iowa, Kentucky, Michigan, New Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Tennessee, and Virginia. Call 1-800 next step or text next step 533442 in Arizona. Call 1-888-78-977 or visit ccpg.org slash chat.

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