The Mismatch - Monday Night Revenge Games, Good-Vibe Lakers, Steve Ballmer Is Being Sued, and Just How Good Are the Bulls?

Episode Date: November 4, 2025

Verno and Jacoby return to recap what was seemingly revenge night across the league yesterday. They discuss Myles Turner’s return to Indiana, Deandre Ayton taking control for the Lakers with Luka Doncic and Austin Reaves both out, the latest on Ja Morant, and more. They next ask six questions about the NBA season so far. (00:00) Welcome to The Mismatch!(02:00) Myles Turner returns to Indiana, and Giannis beats the buzzer to win 117-115(10:45) Norman Powell and the Heat edge out the Clippers 120-119(12:26) Deandre Ayton dominates in his return to Portland as the Lakers beat the Blazers 123-115(15:02) What is going on with the Grizzlies’ Ja Morant?(27:30) The Jazz steal a win against the Celtics(29:45) A Knicks vibe check(34:48) Should we take the Lakers seriously?(41:39) Is it time we recalibrate the Bulls?(46:40) Where do the Pelicans go from here?(52:16) How much more does Pablo Torre know?(58:02) Can the Rockets stay this hot offensively?(01:05:16) What was Lester Jones thinking? The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Leave us a message on our Mismatch voicemail line! [phone] Hosts: Chris Vernon and David JacobyProducers: Jessie Lopez and Stefan AndersonSocial: Keith Fujimoto Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to The Misfatch. I'm Chris Vernon and joining me as he does every week from the ringer.com is Dave Jacoby. Jacoby. Vern. Oh, a lot of news out of Memphis. And I've noticed that you didn't really put it on the rundown. I could, I mean, I look at the rundown and I see very little Grizzlies talk on here, which is interesting because it seems like everyone else is talking about the Grizzles. We will get to it for starting with last night, which is Reven. last night. Who's this played last night? They did play last night. I was there.

They lost. We'll get to it. We'll get to it. Can we at least talk about some other things first? You're so sad. You're so sad today. Can we at least talk about some other things first? I'm worried about you.

You're wearing a button up. I've never seen you in a button up in my whole entire life. Yes, you have. Yes, you have. I have on broadcasts. How dare you? On broadcast. You're listening to The Mismatch, presented by Fandual.

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Call 888-78-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. We had a revenge night in the NBA. We'll start. Giannis had a game winner in Miles Turner's return. And so Miles Turner, who, I mean, look, there was a lot of sad feelings around the NBA last night. Miles Turner also had some sad feelings last night in the NBA. So Janice hits this incredible fadeaway and the Bucks win their game against the Indiana Pacers. Indiana Pacers season has started miserably between the injuries. And I mean, this is a team that we just watched in the NBA finals.

And now they've dropped to 1 and 6 to start the season. And Janus is on the absolute tear of tears to begin the season. But the Miles Turner thing, you know, at the beginning of the season, we talk about games we look forward to. And one of the things that we talk about regarding the NBA season is who's going to have, like, the return games. And we said there's really not many this year, right? There's not like a bunch of like rousing returns or big feelings.

Same way we had Clay Thompson or some other ones in years past. And we mentioned in passing, oh, well, I guess we're going to have Miles Turner going back to Milwaukee. Yeah, I think Luca to Dallas was sort of the last big one that you had. Yeah, that was the last big one. Right, and we were going to have Miles Turner going back to Indiana. And then you wondered what was going to happen when Miles Turner went to Indiana, buddy, not the reception that Miles Turner wanted. And after the game, here's what Miles Turner said about the reception he got in Indiana.

It was just hardening, man. It was frustrating, you know, just, you know, You give 10 years of your life, your blood, you sweat, your tears, you take pay cuts, you you know, you survive trade rumors, you know, you try to do everything the right way, and then sometimes that stuff shakes out. You know, it's cool. You know, I take it on the chin. You know, I think a lot of people say I said things, but I think a lot of people want to formulate

their own narratives and spin it to whatever they want it to be. But it is what it is, man. Like I say, you take it on the chain, you just move on. Hmm. Ferneau? you team miles or team pacer fan okay you put me in a bad spot because I love Indiana and I love pacer fans but I am team miles on this hard

a couple things I see both sides of the corn the thing about miles Turner and his relationship with the Pacers is he has been in trade rumors literally for a decade it seems like every time after New Year's the ball drops in Times Square and then Miles Turner is in trade rumors It's been going on forever. And I can understand that that can be difficult. As he said in his quote, I survived trade rumors.

Like it was an avalanche or something. But at the same time, there are reports, and I'm curious to hear what you think about this, that he took less money to go to the bucks. That the Pacers basically offered him the same deal. I mean, look, here, when the story came back, Like, it was very clear that the Pacers were low-balling him, okay? That if we go back in time, one of the things that he says throughout the entire process is that basically everybody told me I was going to get taken care of, okay? So if we go back through it, he ended up signing a four-year deal worth about $109 million, okay?

which was only possible because Damien Lillard's contract got stretched by the Milwaukee Bucks. So that was, they were, there was never competition for this, I think probably in the Pacer's mind, right? They were going to be able to negotiate with him. And there wasn't somebody out there that had the cap room. And certainly in a billion years, you would never have expected. we never expected the situation to play out the way it played out right like poof the bucks have cap room wait wait what how did that just happen right like there's no way like there you can't be more capped out and so anyways he says he went on the nasasanta tecumpo's podcast and he said that his experience

was different than the other guys he said they re-signed pascal siacum they resigned pascal siacum they re-signed obi toppin they re-signed t j mccanell they re-signed erin neesmith and he said everybody got a great run we had a great run everybody got taken care of everybody got paid because we won then you go to the next year we surpass what we did we go to the finals and all everybody told me was miles just keep your head down keep your head down and work and then you're going to get taken care of and then you hear the rumors you know indiana we're going to be in the luxury tax for the first time yaddi yada yada and then it says that everybody gassed me up all year long you're going to get taken care of you're going to get taken care of and then the unfortunate situation happens in the finals with

tyrese and i guess the front office and ownership just basically changed their mind and was like well you know yeah we told you those things but you know and so then it's you know at that point right you got sore feelings about the whole thing and then obviously it plays out the way way it does. And Rick Carlisle at one point had gone on a show. He went on 107 the 5, the fan in Indianapolis and August. He said that he assumed the Bucks had told Turner that the offer he got was contingent on him keeping quiet rather than using it to get a better deal from the Pacers. And he says that happens all the time in our league. But, and, you know, it's, it's still unclear exactly how much

Indiana would have been willing to pay him had it known that Milwaukee was in the mix but that leads to the sore feelings right? You know once you know somebody else would give you more money, you're

sitting there going, why won't my place take care of me? That's my market value. If my market value is whatever it is 27, then why I won't my team that I've spent 10 years with pay me my market value. I'm team miles here. I'm team miles here.

I also do wonder. And this is a, and he said, you know, things are taking it out of context and whatever. Leading up to this homecoming that went wrong, you did have the whole social media blast of Miles Turner says, you know, Tyrese Halliburton's a fake tough guy. Oh, right. Talks big because, and so I do think that, right? Like, it does. I think that probably part of the I or two is, you know, you're kind of booed like,

okay, you left and you left us and you went to one of our big competitors, a team that we consider a rival and you went to go play with Janus. And now you're bad mouth in our guy who's out with the torn Achilles. And so I think that's probably some of it, too, is that there's like, some sore feelings about. And whether or not Miles Turner meant it to come off that way, that's in the social media age. The headlines is the headline.

Yeah, yeah. The headlines is taken out of context. It becomes a headline. I didn't watch the whole interview just like everybody else. I saw the excerpt and the expert looks, looks bad. But if you are a Pacers fan, you have to respect the time, the effort, and the work that Miles Turner put in with your uniform on. And, you know, an Indiana is a great basketball state.

And I'm pretty surprised that it went this way. But, you know, the bucks are pretty good. The bucks look good, man. They do. And obviously, Janus is elevating that entire thing. It's, he is just, he is playing like the bona fide superstar that he is. They've had a find in Ryan Rollins for sure. And again, it's about, do you have enough around the guy that you've built it around?

And so far, so good on the bucks having enough. Absolutely. And it also feels like if you have a superstar, this isn't rocket science. Surrounded him with shooting. If you have a superstar, surrounded him with shooting. And that's what they've done finally. It's not give him a second superstar. It's give him role players that support him. And I think that that is the equation that they're going with and it's working so far. Yeah, other revenge games. Norm Powell wins his return to the Los Angeles Clippers. I know this was really Ballyhooed. People were worried,

were thinking about Norm Powell going back and playing against the clippers. But the he didn't start it off better than I expected them to. And obviously, and then they're going to get Tyler Hero back at the fold. Hey, we talked about this last show, about how I told you like there was, I know he's not on the bench like he was at Memphis,

but he is a consultant, but that La Roach offense, what it did for Jaron Jackson Jr., and what it is now doing for Bam out of bio and Bam, another, I mean, that's a huge game. And like it's for years, people have been like wanting Bam out of bio to be more. And so far, he is more, right?

And just efficient. So. Unbelievable. He's unbelievable. And he said, three, he said 25 and 10 last night. And the Clippers defense is a real defense. And they've got guys to throw at him. Like, this is not an easy night for Bam.

And he made it look easy. I've been really impressed with the heat. I've been really impressed by BAM. And go through your list of teams that are missing their best player that are playing this well. There's one name. It's the heat. That's it.

Right. Or leading score. I don't know if he's their best player, but he's certainly with the guy. I'm a guy. I'm a Tyler Hero guy. I've always like Tyler Hero. Well, and the Norr Powell thing is an underrated acquisition.

There's no way around it. And they will rue the day. I think the Clippers have bigger things to work. about then Norm Powell being in a heat uniform today. We will get to

that a little bit later. That being said, the mother of all revenge games. So Miles Turner was sad after the game and that had a moment

because he got booed. The Norm Powell returned. It was a joke. But the DeAndre Aiton, okay, I decided to play game against the Portland

Trailblazers because they cut him. and having 29, 10, and 3 blocks is literally everything I talk about when I say, there's nobody more frustrated than Diage, more frustrating than Diadre Aiton. This is a possibility that is like freaking Haley's comment. And at least last night, Haley's comet when he was playing against his former team. I didn't watch this game. I wrote this off as a Lakers loss.

No LeBron, no Luca, no Austin Reeves. Where does the offense come from? DeAndre Ate. Apparently. Hello. Hello. DeAndre Ate. I don't even know how they get the ball past half court.

Gabe Vincent? That's where it came from. And of course, the guy ends up with 20, as I mentioned, 29, 10, and three blocks. And I mean, I can only imagine. the best seat in the house had to have been next to the front office of the Portland Trailblazers in that arena. Because I cannot imagine the curse words that were said. Oh, yeah. This game is playing.

Like, are you serious? Like, what is happening? Where was this? Where was this? When we asked you. What is happening? Seriously. And the other thing is, you know, you mentioned how, yeah, no LeBron, no Austin Reeves, no.

Luca. Luca Dodgich. Who needs them when you have Nick Smith, Jr.? And La Ravia. And La Ravia. No, Nick Smith, Jr. Came off the benching at 25 for the Lakers last night. Okay.

I mean, this has been a dream start for the Lakers. A dream. With all the injuries they've had, and you watch them, and the vibes are good. They seem like they've got good vibes going on with the Lakers right now. We'll put a pin in that one. one because I had the Lakers in the rundown later, but I am, I'm shocked at what's happening with the Lakers.

And me too. There's no shortage of Lakers talk around the, the sort of like NBA atmosphere, but they're winning games, man. They are winning games. So then I was at Pistons Crisly. Of course, there was going to be a tremendous amount of focus on this because John Morant was coming off his one game suspension and everybody wanted to know like, okay, is this going to be water under the bridge.

How is this going to be dealt with? Obviously, I went on with Zach Lowe yesterday and talked about this. And I thought, so I will try to make this very quick. I think the general sentiment was something happened at halftime of the Lakers game. We had a awareness that this new coach was going to be the take everything head on, no chatter, no passive aggressive. He's going to call people out when they need to be called out. I don't know what happened, but something happened at that halftime where John Morant came out and just shut it down and was sullen and I guess he got called out.

I guess at halftime of the Lakers game. And so then comes out after the game as everybody knows and every question says, go ask the coach, go ask the coach. So I think the general sentiment was while this was framed in some. quarters as a growing frustration or this things had been you know things had been tense for a while like the last game before

that one he had 28 before the Laker game yeah he had 28 8 and 7 and a game winner so oh that was the behind the back in the lane yeah so we didn't think that like there was no like big signs the thing were they up at halftime

against the Lakers 14 yeah so what happened here And then, so then you figure, okay, this is a blow up and it'll blow over, right? He got mad. The coach got mad at him. He got mad at the coach. He acted horribly and he has been suspended. And then, you know, the only way is through.

They'll come back. They'll talk it out. He'll say, I need you. He'll say, I need you. And then they'll show up to the arena and everything will be fine. And they show up to the arena and there were like no questions pregame. I was like, oh, okay. Like, that doesn't make you feel like things got all hashed out.

And then, I mean, obviously I was there at the arena. Like, he's not himself at all. He's not himself. He's not acting like himself. He's not bouncing around. He's not the guy that I've watched for six, seven years. Like, I've been to every game. I've seen him.

Right? I knew six, seven. I knew the second half of Friday night. Like something happened here. This is not right. Well, I would say the second half of Friday night and last night were two different John Moran's. He looked better last night. But you're saying it's not the guy you've watched.

No. God, no. And then after the game, you have the comments. I don't have my joy and all this. And it's like, oh, my God. Who was the last person to say that? Jimmy Butler. And it was, and it was like directing it back to, like,

again. Obviously he's upset about a loss, right? That's one thing. He's upset about the state of the team. That's another thing. But what you wanted was, okay, this got hashed out, right? This got hashed out and now everybody's going to walk arm in arm through. And he was just like, it wasn't defiant and it wasn't like he was not trying. He looked sad. He looks sad. He looks. He looks sad. Like the whole night, like it wasn't like there was some extreme lack of effort. And it's just the body language, the, and everything feeds off of that. And then you get to the locker room and it's like, bro, what happened? Seriously? What happened? That this went so haywire, so quickly to where your star player had 28, 8, 8, and 7 and a game winner. And we saw

him in the three-game homestand to start the season, and he's bouncing around, he's doing post-game interviews with his daughter and whatever. Like, this can be, again, I understand 99% of people are not paying attention to this, but I'm telling you this is what was happening. And so everybody was like, okay, there was a blow-up, things are going to be fine. But then, by the time you get to last night, you're like, bro, things are not going to be fine. Like, what is going on here?

What has happened? That's what I'm asking you. What is going on here? What is going on? Isn't Tuomaz Isolo Jaws guy? Isn't the whole firing of Taylor Jenkins and getting rid of La Roach? Isn't that like to appease John Morant? I think that the change in offense was certainly in part to please John Moran.

But in fairness, Taylor Jenkins got let go because the defense collapsed to the worst of the league last year. And they were the two seed with a month left in the season and ended up having to play their way in and then had to play against Oklahoma City Thunder. Right. So when you go from two to eight, like that's what happened there. But there's no question he did not like the offense last year, right, which was much more equal opportunity. But now he's running more pick and rolls than ever. I mean, and I express this to low. They are not without,

they are not without responsibility for this in the sense. Like, you have to be a professional and you have to keep on playing and you have to, like, that's the job. Okay. So this is making no excuse for him. They start the worst wing combination in the entire league. I watch games every single night. Every single night.

What about the target? around the NBA. He doesn't start. I know, but he's there. And it's like, and I also think that there, like, the whole idea was that they were going to have, like, maybe this offense, when you have like multiple ball handlers, you know what I mean? Like, this was the, one of the things that happened around the NBA is people wanted multiple guys that can dribble and dribble under pressure because they saw Oklahoma City in that pressure. They also wanted to, and they want to play fast, which is what the Pacers do, right? So these are the lessons learned about the way the NBA is going.

And so then you get into the season and you have this kind of offense that you want to run. And then Scotty Pippin is out for four months. And then Ty Jerome gets hurt before the end of the season. And you look up and you got one guy that can dribble. So that one guy that can dribble now sees three people every time he touches the ball. Right. There is no place to drive into the lane unless you're going to go finish within traffic. because nobody respect.

I mean, you have Contavis, Colwell Pope on one wing, Jalen Wells on the other wing. And so you now have Jaron Jackson Jr. and John Morant. And as I mentioned yesterday, you're playing three fifth options. Jack Landell should be a fifth option. Wells should be a fifth option.

And there's just no shooting. Caldwell Pope should be a fifth option. There's no floor spacing. And so you have this incredible frustration, right? This incredible frustration that comes along with it. And then you have the coach blaming you, right? which is how he took it for why things aren't how they are supposed to be.

And then he took it obviously horribly wrong. Like there's something, we'll never know. I wasn't in the locker room. But whatever was said in that locker room, what you cannot do, and you can either blame the player or blame the coach, but the truth is this, you can't end up with a situation that's untenable.

where a guy gets so mad about the situation that now you've lost him. Like, who is that good for? But what my question for you is, why is it John Morant and the Grizzlies lose a game? And guess what? It's a little awkward in the post game press conference. Fine. But why is it immediately now we have to trade John Moran? Why?

It just seems like, it just seems like a huge leap to me. It's a huge leap to me to be like, oh, now we're going to trade it for 40 cents on the dollar. No, that's what... Because he's upset. I'm not trading John Morant for 40 cents on the dollar. I'm looking at a couple of draft picks in 2030 for John Moran. That's a culture of the NBA. I mean, it just is.

I'm not trading the NBA. I'm not trading John Moran. No, I mean, I think what they'll say is the only way is through. Like, you figure it out. And, hey, let's get that joy back. You know what I mean? Well, do you know what gets the joy back? Wins.

That's what gets the joy back. Wins. No question. Win some games. And also getting some good players back in the fold and switching things up to make life easier for your stars. That's another way. That's all the drama on the other side. You know, coming into the season, I talked about during Summer League,

J.B. Bickerstaff came on with me while we were there, and I told you that he was just, the way he talked about Cade Cunningham was as good. glowing, and I've known him for a very long time, as glowing as I've ever heard him talk about a player, his leadership, his what he brings to the table, like just the kind of guy he is that a franchise can be built around. And getting to see it in person last night, he had 19 in the fourth quarter, 33 in the game. And he is absolutely awesome. And the other thing, that there are certain guys that that I will come on here throughout the season

and I talk about like there's a different experience when you see them in person and he is one of those where you do not realize how big he is until you see him in person and you're like good grief this guy is a house and he is so big and strong and he makes your little guards look diminutive

and he is absolutely awesome. Like, again, I know you have the level of respect for him because of what they were able to do by winning those games in the garden during the playoffs. Like, this is not a guy that got to the playoffs and it was a different world. This was a guy

that got to the playoffs and was able to raise his level of play. And so congrats to Detroit because I don't know if they knew the first couple of years that this was going to be the one to build around but they have one that you can build around

and my God, is he awesome? Awesome. Absolutely. Absolutely. And, you know, I think Jalen Dern has been really good too. Sure. I want to give a shot to Jalen Dern. But the, you know, the Pistons, you were there in the building.

That's not a championship contending team, but for where they were two years ago to where they are now, that's why I'm so high on the Pistons is I do believe in Cade. He is the prospect that we thought he was when he was coming out. The Ivy thing is such a shame. It's ridiculous. It really is. It really is a shame because it's the, and you talked about this going into the season,

that you worried about their lack of shooting in the absence of Beasley, in the absence of Tim Hardaway Jr. And the absence of some of the other guys, right? Like, Cade Cunningham generates all manner of open threes. Oh, yeah. Beef stew took 10 wide open threes last night, it felt like, right? Like, they're there. and but people will leave

Stuart and live with the result people will leave I saw Thompson and live with the result people will leave their guy obviously Durin's not stretching the floor all the way out to there and so you kind of got Duncan Robinson and like you don't have a lot of Debeza was so big for them last year

oh yeah he was so big for them I mean he was led the leak he led the league right I would say 60% of those were from Kate's hands too I don't have the number is in front of me, about say, 60% from me. A couple others. We have Utah beating the Celtics. The Celtics I read this morning.

I mean, it's like historically ridiculous rebounding. And it's one of the things that I talked to you about when I saw them in the preseason. It's like they have no big guys. They have no big guys. Well, and obviously Utah is huge. Right. Like Utah is a huge team. But the Celtics, this is going about like we thought it was going to go.

Jaylon Brown has 37. He's upset after the game and obviously they drop this one to the jazz, but I mean, they can't get the ball. You have a very difficult time getting it. It makes basketball super hard when you can't get the ball. If you shoot it and they get it and they shoot it and they get it, I mean, sometimes it's simple. The only way to get the ball is if they score on you. Right.

The jazz are better than I thought they would be, to be honest with you. I'm watching the jazz. I'm like, they got guys. You figure this is the way they would start. I like George, Harkless. Like I'm watching this team.

I'm like, I don't know. They got guys. This is kind of the way it started last year too, right? Which is, I mean, this is the way the jazz do, which is,

all right, play these first 30, build up the stock. Yeah. Right? Build up the stock so that everybody knows your good players.

And then, okay, like, and especially this year. Yard sale. I mean, I mean, with all. And, and, I mean, you got real competition because typically it's the end of the season.

You got teams like the Nets that are like, you think we're waiting until the next 30? We're going 0 and 82. Oh, yeah. Like that's, I mean, we're going to go, what if they went 2 and 80? I mean, that would be. The Nets? How did they win two? I don't.

Where do those two come from? I don't have the got. I don't, it's hard to see on the schedule. I mean, some night, Cam Thomas or Porter Jr. or somebody's going to hit a bunch of threes, right? I can't believe I paid for the Nets games. I cannot believe I did that. The Knicks beat the Wizards and the wolves beat the Nets, unsurprising.

How are you feeling about the Knicks so far? Fine. I think fine is probably the right word. I don't feel good. I don't feel bad. The heart thing is scary. Yeah. Yeah.

Right. He's a key cog to making that thing work at the highest level. Yes. I felt like Sunday night's win against the Bulls was good. They couldn't miss from three, which helps. But I think beating the Bulls is a nice little feather in the cap, especially after losing two on Friday in the cup game. Well, and just for people that are previously unaware, Josh Hart is dealing with a nerve injury in his shooting hand. That's what I was talking about.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, in his shooting hand. And so, you know, again, we know that he is going to be needed. His quotes, for me, I'm just going through a sort of adversity, myself, both physically and mentally, is what he said. He had suffered a back injury that kept him out of opening night and appeared to hamper him at times throughout the first four appearances. And then now he's got the shooting hand thing. So, I mean, he's at a back and a shooting hand within, I mean, hell, we've only played six, seven games. The tricky part is if you break a finger, there's a track record for that, there's a timeline, it's understandable.

With nerve issues, it's just like, it seems like he's been playing through it the entire year, but you just don't know. There's this sort of like, maybe he'll be back in a month. Maybe he'll be back in a day. Maybe, you know, who knows? And maybe he won't be affected when he does come back. It is a concern. But, I mean, listen, when you're playing the Wizards, you look good, but Kat looked really good last year. The mismatch is brought to you.

you by Fandul. Fandul's putting you in control right from tip-off. That's right. You get to choose your reward. Play it safe. Go for it. Feeling bold, that's your move. Whatever your style, you're in control.

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All right. We got six things that we wanted to talk. about on this beautiful Tuesday morning. I'm going to let you start. You go ahead. What? Yep. You're starting.

All right. Let me look here. I wasn't ready for this. All right. I'm in a collared shirt. You start. Yeah, yeah, you're in a collared shirt. You got a button up on.

I always go with the second button buttons. You've got unbuttoned. You do a little Richard Jefferson on me here. Yeah. Where's the chain? Can't do the chain and the college shirt? I do it. Oh, you got a little chain.

Where's your big chain? Little chain. I don't have the big chain, man. All right. I don't have big chain energy today. I know. I could tell. I could tell. You're sad. When John Morant said, it was a late night. Yeah. It was a late, it was a late night.

And what, go ahead. Here's my question. And I asked this question not knowing the answer. I do not know how I would answer this question. So this is why I appreciate our partnership because I need you to offer thoughts here. Should we take the Lakers seriously? I don't know how to answer that question. I don't think there's any question that we should take the Lakers seriously. You're questioning this?

Oh, no, they should be taken seriously. Why? Absolutely. Because I'm ready to concede on this. I thought that they were going to have a bit cut. Here's the thing. You tune them in in the same way I just talked about how I'm at and I go to all these games and I watch how these teams interact with each other,

and I see the way they communicate with each other. And trust me, I'm covering one that it's a mess right now. I saw that Lakers team on Friday night in person, and I've watched them on TV several times already this year. I like the vibes. I like the vibes. I think you watch them. The body language is good.

The communication is good. and I cannot believe that they are able to defend at the level that they have been already. Luca has been truly otherworldly. Like, bro, I don't know if you watch that Friday night game that I saw in person when he had the 44. I mean, this dude is in one-legged step back? I mean, just everything.

It seems like this is when you know it's cracking. When you start to bring guys off and they're going and everybody on the bench is going crazy. So to wit, Knits Smith Jr. last night. They've had it happen with Nick Smith Jr. They've had it happen with La Ravia. They've had it happen with Austin Reeves. So when you have that many guys that have already cracked 20,

there's that many guys, right? Then to me, you're not a million percent star dependent. And you do have guys that are raising the collective level. And so when you can win a game like that on the road against Portland last night without any of your guys that we think are essential and the reason that you didn't watch, to me, that is a mark that yes, this has to be monitored because most teams dump that game. Right? Like, look up and it's like, oh, no Austin Reeves. There's no. So it's weird.

The way I would look into it is to say, bro, if you can win that. And again, same way I will tell you, Lord knows, the star in Memphis has been out for a lot of games for the past three years. But the same way I would tell you, I watch that. And the reason I would always be positive is because it didn't even matter. Like, you're winning no matter who was able. Because it's a real team. And you've got real depth. And it's like, you can win a game like that.

And again, I understand it's only one game. But to me, it's more meaningful because that, that's, that, shows me you're not just dependent. Like you got something going here if you're not just dependent on who is available that night. There's a lot of these teams absolutely dead in the water if their guys not available. Oh yeah. Dead. Right.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the reason I would tell you that they have piqued my interest is because when Louca, when LeBron's been out, they've been fine. When Luca has been out, you've had Reeves turn into the best player on the team. Then you've had other guys out and La Ravia steps up and he gives you 25. Then you've had Reeves out and Nick Smith Jr. Steps up and he gives you 25. That tells me there's something good going on when that can happen, right?

That means like this is not just player dependent. You've got something good, cracking. That's what I tell you. Concerned about defense. right now they're middle of the pack defensively but I just don't see anybody on the roster that can contribute defensively

Smart has been way better than I thought he was going to be I mean smart He has been way better He has been a Dennett positive forward No sure He's been the best I've seen him in three years

Did he play for the Grizzlies Did he take the floor for the Grizzlies? Did he take the floor For the Wizards or the Grizzlies? I haven't seen him like since the Celtics, we haven't really seen him do anything, but he is, he is contributing. And I'll, I'll deny that I said this forever. You're not recording this, right? Jackson Hayes isn't bad either.

He's been pretty good. He's been okay. Yes. I don't think, look, I, I think what your goal is, is what you were saying, which is, be middle of the pack defensively. And then be amazing offensively. Right. That's what they're doing. That's the plan.

They have no defensive players. No. I mean, and there is a limit to that. There is a limit to that. But over the course of the regular season, you can win a whole lot of games. You know, again, you're not asking them, like, say for instance, last night, right?

That's a good defensive team in Portland. Hell yeah. You're not asking. I love their defense. Again, there's some of these teams. You remember when we talked about the magic last year, And it's like, I mean, you got to give up 97 to win the damn game, right? Because you're scoring 98.

Well, if the thing is, okay, we're not that great defensively, can you give up 120? Because I can get you 123. Totally doable. And that's regular season. And in the playoffs, you're going to have the best player in the series against most teams. There's probably three teams you won't have that's playing in the series. Yes. So I guess we don't take them serious.

so. I guess so. I think they should be thinking seriously, simply because of the offensive, how offensively potent they have been already this year with different guys stepping up. You know, that tells me that there's something good going on that enables you to plug and play and other guys be able to maybe not give you the same contribution as the stars would if they were there. but when you're in a situation where a guy like Nick Smith can come in and give you 25

and Jake LaRavia can give you 25 it's like okay something right is happening here I'm glad you brought smart too because when I watch Lakers games I'm like this guy's car good I kind of wrote him off as a basketball thing guy he's doing the little things you know what I mean doing the little things all right first one for me okay I'll stay along those same lines

do we need to recalibrate the Bulls or is it too soon? Too soon. This happens in football all the time. When some team starts 4 and O and all of a sudden we're putting them in the Super Bowl, like the Bulls are still the Bulls. We're not putting anybody in the Super Bowl. They're still the Bulls. They're still in the play.

It's no matter. Is that the way you feel? Yes. This is going to this is going to calibrate itself. this with the bulls you think it's just hot start yes this is a hot start I mean they are good wins

like you look at I know they lost to the Knicks they got a couple good ones No they're there five wins are Pistons at Orlando Atlanta Nix Sacramento and the Nix

Yeah not bad and they put up big numbers I mean they score a lot and if this giddy again when you say we need to recalibrate like if Josh Giddy is going to be a 40% three points then we're going to have to recalibrate because that is a

all star all NBA level player God's Giddy getting threes off the dribble is wild to me I mean if Josh Giddy is a what what percentage should we put him at like he is truly an all NBA player if he can knock down that what, like 37% of his threes? Like, I mean, the entire thing about Josh Giddy is that he can't shoot. That is the one problem with him.

Because he's awesome and everything else. The beginning, the middle and the end of the Josh Giddy story is he can't shoot. Well, guess what? 2025, he can shoot. Changes everything. It changes everything. And it also makes you look like, okay, their best player is Josh Giddy. but he's like a guy that gets 20-something points, a triple-double and shoots 40% from three.

Again, it's six games. But I think our recalibration is going to fall in line with that. If he really does shoot a high percentage from three. Do you think it is more likely that they continue, and he continues to shoot this well, and they continue to win this much, or is it more likely they fall back into the middle of the pack like they always do? I'm going with the ladder. agree with you, but it's a super fun start. It's not fun.

It's not fun to be negative on the Bulls, but like, let's be honest. They're the Bulls. Who's their best player? Josh Giddy, bro. Buzellis? Josh Giddy. Okay. So do you think Josh Giddy's going to lead a team to a game one at home in the playoffs?

He is not. Again. There is recal. You want this. You want this. Not the bulls to be good, so bad. I'm telling you that there is a recalibration that has to take place if this guy can shoot. Here's one thing I find interesting.

The ceiling for him as a, if he can shoot, but he can't shoot. Don't tell him that. He's shooting 41% to start the season from three. He goes to the line. He averages nine rebounds a game. Like he does everything. He puts guys in good positions. He's like a...

He's been fantastic. He's like a big point guard that like makes everybody better, but the defense can collapse because he can't shoot, but he like is shooting 41%. So like that does change everything. Whenever I watch the Bulls, dude who jumps off the screen for me is Iyo. Oh, jumps off the screen. A dog.

He jumps off the screen. I'm like, I want him on my team. I think I always be great. One thing I find interesting about them is they've got $84 million coming off the books. They've got like Vucevich, Herder, Iyo, Javon Carter, Kobe White,

Zach Collins, they're all coming off the books. It's going to be a really interesting offseason for them. Obviously they're not going to make a title run, but like it's just an interesting transitional year for the Bulls. And if they can continue, I don't think they'll stay this hot, But if they continue to play well, they've got a lot of salary cap.

And why can't they just trade, why can't they just trade Vucevic to the Kings so we can have the Bulls just run it back with the Rosen Levine at Bucovic? They probably should. There's got to be something there, right? Why can't we? If they don't like the way things are going this year, they can just move somebody to the Kings. Always. I'm here's my next one. What do the Pelicans do now?

Like, what do they do? It's the most depressing situation. I mean, the first thing is they're going to end up getting rid of Willie. Oh, yeah. I mean, by the time this pod comes out, he might already be gone. Yeah, I mean, what do they say already

three 30 point losses? Yeah. I mean, that's crazy. That's just point differences like minus 17 or something. It's gross. You can't lose by 30 in the NBA. Three times in six games. I'm saying you can't do it trying. Like, there's no way. There's a lack of effort there.

That can happen like a couple times a season. That cannot happen. No, that usually happens after New Year's. You know what I mean? It doesn't happen in November. It can happen in Toronto. It can happen in Atlanta. It can happen in Miami.

me it can happen when it's one of your best players' birthdays the night before. Right? But three times in the first six games of the season? No. No. You're not going to you're just not going to be able

to survive it. And obviously do you know how a Derek Queen has to be Yokic? He's not Yon. No, no. For that trade to be like seriously. Like you're now if you're Joe Duma like this guy has to turn out to

be one of the greatest NBA players ever. Because last night, we did not include this on the rundown. Last night, there was a video that came across my Instagram feed at halftime of the Grizzlies and the Pistons. And I stopped on it. And it was Darren Peterson highlights from Kansas. I mean, I think he played like 20-something minutes last night. or something in their first game.

And it was like, Darren Peterson's debut. I watched like the two-minute mixtape, and I was like, oh my God, have you seen him? I mean, seriously, the Nets may go two and eighties. In between Peterson, Boozer, DeBansta, I see these freshmen come across my feed. And they, I mean, this Peterson kid at Kansas looks crazy. I can't believe his wingspan looks long as hell

and like he's drawn like Kobe comps in the past Well the Pelicans don't have their picks so I know that's what I'm saying What I'm saying is Derek Queen has to be the greatest player in the history of the world I mean it is a catastrophe An absolute catastrophe It's just the most depressing situation

It really is There's just nothing good happening when you watch a Pelicans game Nothing there's not No. There are, when you watch the jazz, you're like, oh, we got some interesting young players. I can see this turning into a nucleus moving forward. Even when you watch the nets, you're like, we've got a bunch of rookies. Maybe something will happen here.

And when I watch the Pelicans, I'm like, there's just nothing to get excited about. Even Zion. Who's been great? Right. What are you to trade Zion for? What's the market for Zion? What team want Zion right now? Well, and you do wonder with them.

You wonder what the course of action is going to be. And if they just say, you know what, we're going to build around fears, we're going to build around queen, and we're going to get massive assets going forward. We're going to try to get a first rounder back for next year, et cetera, et cetera. Trading Zion is the only way to do it. Well, Murphy would get you real good return. Murphy would get you return for sure. Interesting. I would probably be more interested in Murphy than Zion.

Yeah, Murphy would get you big return. Herb could get you return too. Yeah. And so I would just say, like, if that is the course of action, and again, with a new management, those aren't his guys. He's not married to those guys. His guys are Fears and Queens.

Fears looks good. Fears does look good. Yeah, no question. Fears can thump it, man. He looks good. And so I think that that's what you do, right? Probably, again, most of the time, the coach goes first,

and then the players go second, and then you say, all right, I'm going to rebuild this team in my image. That's why you hired me. Let me do my job. And those guys are all David Griffin guys. I'm clearing the deck and we're going to build this thing out around

our young core. But that's a dangerous game to play for sure. Because it didn't look like it didn't look like they were that far. They've got good and they got some good players. It's not a, the worst part is when you don't have players.

Like they do have talent on that team. But you can either go one of two ways, which is We are going to try to make the, we don't have our draft pick, so we need to make a move to enhance this group, or you say to hell with this group and you start a new group. How could you possibly, how could you possibly say we need to enhance this group and win some games this year

after what you've seen on the floor so far? I mean, because of the lack of draft pick. Yeah, I think you need a draft pick. I think they end up trading sign this year. I think that's kind of their only recourse. This is, it's awful. It's awful. Next one.

All right. I'm going to do the, I'm going to do the Pablo thing here. So as I mentioned, while I also last night, first I watched the Darren Peterson highlights. And I was like, oh, my God, this guy is awesome and worth thanking for. Then Pablo shows up on my screen. Breaking. Of course he does. And I'm like, oh, here we go, Pablo.

and I told you after I watch that thing with Mark Cuban that we're not done with this. We're not done with this, right? He's not taking this leg it down. He's going to, he's going to, every bit of information is going to come out. And so for those that don't know, now last night, Pablo reports on this lawsuit that has taken place with aspiration investors. 11 of them. 11. 11 people. Think about that. It's a lot of people. And so now that, I guess the company is now called Catona and that Steve Balmer infused $50 million into the company and that part of the reason that all of these guys invested is because Balmer invested. But what they didn't realize was that he was investing to do this dastardly deed of circumventing the salary cap and funneling money to him. his players. And so now you have a huge lawsuit. And now we go to discovery. And discovery is when.

I mean, I think that like a Cheshire cat, Pablo's like, okay, let's do discovery. Let's see how that goes for you. Let's give over the phones. Let me see your phones. Let's go ahead and do discovery. And it's like, oh, crap. All right. So though this like died down and they caught a little bit of a break with the gambling, scandal. Here we go. We're back to the clippers. And who knows when this is going to be resolved, who knows how long this takes to go to a court, and then who knows how long it's going to take Adam Silver to levy some kind of punishment if there is a punishment to be levied. And so we told you this story is not over. And I thought this when I watched the Cuban thing, and I will tell you now, I guarantee this

he Toray just comes off like a guy that's got like more folders behind him you know what I mean well that they're going to try to say he didn't do like the story's not all there

he doesn't have the proper reporting and then he's going to throw down another folder in front of you and go okay well what about this and you're going to be like oh shit I think a lot of this is the result of people losing money. And when you lose money, when you lose money, you're pissed off.

And when you feel like you've been taken, you feel like you've been lied to. And I think there's a lot of disgruntled people involved in the quote unquote aspiration business. And I think all of those people are more than happy to open up their hearts and minds to Pablo Tori. And I think they're more than happy to pay the lawyer fees to get together 11 of them and file this lawsuit.

And I think there is I think there's obviously some wrongdoing here from Balmer and the Clippers but I think it's going to be difficult to actually prove in the court of law. Because that's where we're going to end up. His standpoint is

I got scam too. And you got to remember this is one thing that I don't think people talk about enough of this is this motherfucker got on a plane and flew to Bristol, Connecticut to do that interview. I think I'm right about that. I think it was in Bristol.

I don't think it was in Bristol. Los Angeles. No, no. It was with Ramona. It wasn't. It had to have been at L.A. It was with Ramona. Yeah.

Ramona's L.A. based. Yeah. But I mean, it wouldn't be anything for him to get on a plane anyway. Yeah. But the idea that he's just like, I'm going to get ahead of this. My name is in the news. I'm going to own this. I'm the face of this.

I'm going to take this right on the chin. I'm going to put a microphone on and look right at the camera and say, I'm the victim here. Right. I'm not the offender. And the idea that he did this and then everything that happened afterwards looks really bad for him, really bad. Well, the last thing anybody wants to do is go to Discovery. No.

I'm not, I'm Tom Brady with the phone. My phone's going in the, it's going in the sewer. It's going in the East River. No one's touching my phone. Certainly as a tech guy, he would know how to do this, right? Probably not, though. By the time we get to discovery, Steve Bulver, is that even going to exist? He's like he's going to be wiped away for all,

all records of Steve Palmer doing anything are gone anywhere. Yeah. Nothing has ever been in his name and he doesn't even have a phone. I don't even have, what are you talking about? I don't even have a. Oh, hold on. Beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep.

Breaking news in the middle of our podcast. And this changes everything. All right. Do you want to recalibrate the Western Conference now that I'm telling you that the Sacramento Kings have made an acquisition and they have signed precious at Chua. Oh, precious. Do you want to change?

Do you want to change what you think about the game or not? That changes everything. I need to really recalibrate this. I figure. Westbrook and precious. Yeah, that's a deep playoff run. Deep playoff run. Okay.

Okay. Last one. Again, I trust and respect your knowledge of the NBA. Oh, great. So this is why I ask you these questions because I don't know the answer to them. Okay. Can the rocket stay this hot offensively? like they're absolutely scorching.

They're scorching. And they're a defensive team. This is a, this is hard for me because I'm going to see them in person tomorrow night. You know, the bad vibes grizzlies have three home games in a row.

Houston, Dallas, Oklahoma City. So the, it's one and two. That's one and two. You'll get to us. You wondered why I had a colored shirt on. All right. So here's the deal. Houston is, yes, scorching offensively.

Scorching. Okay. Here is the major reason why. So earlier in this podcast, I told you, the basketball is very hard when you shoot it and they get it. And they shoot it and they get it. We were talking about the Boston Celtics. And they're anemic rebounding, lack of rebounding, that costs them. The highest rate of offensive rebounding.

So that means I took a shot and I got the ball back. In the history of the NBA is 35%. That's high. 35%. It's wild. I shot at 20. It was a Pistons team. Okay.

And the Ben Wallace? Or no, no, it is a Pistons. Right now. So right now, the highest is the Pistons. but the highest ever in the past decade. I'm sorry, in the past decade. And this is according to Lev Akibis,

who posted this on Twitter. Okay? 35% is the highest in the last 10 years. Okay? That's really high. The Houston Rockets are rebounding 42% of the shots they have missed. That can't be real.

42. 42%. of the shots they miss, they rebound. Yes. That's real? That's real. I'm floored. I'm absolutely floored by that. That's insane.

That's an insane number, Verno. That's insane. The Rockets enter the NBA's best offense. 126.5 per 100 possessions. By the way, the highest ever is the 2004 Celtics. That was the highest offensive rating ever. That was 122.

Oh, right. Okay. And so right now, they're averaging 126.5. Okay. So it's truly been the greatest, not this year, the greatest ever. Okay?

They're also 28th in the league and three point percentage rate. So it's not like they're just hitting a bunch of threes and they had some sort of like hot shooting start. Okay, but here, when you ask me, is this, of course, they are shooting 45% as a team from three.

45.4. It's insane. Before the season started, we were like, the problem with the Rockets is lack of shooting. Okay. So when you say, you ask me my expertise, is this sustained?

No. It can't. Right? It can't. It's not sustainable to shoot 45% from three. And get the ball back. half of the time that you miss it. If you get

the ball back half of the time you miss it, you don't even have to shoot. You don't have to shoot a high percentage from three. You get two cracks at it. But I'm also looking at their team and obviously Stephen Adams is an offensive rebounding savant. But it's not like he's playing 40 minutes a night.

Right. Like 42% of offensive rebounding. I mean, sure, Stephen Adams is going to contribute to part of that, but I can't even look at the roster and name the other players. that are doing that. Oh, man, it's like, yeah. I mean, there was a rebound last night where it's like,

I mean, do you know how, do you know how what an athletic freak you have to be for a damn rebound that you got to make it on like, it's like a highlight real? Look at this rebound. You got to jump over the whole team. And I have thought about it. this too. So Kurt Goldsbury

had a deal at the beginning of the year where he was talking about league trends and he said last year was the first year that there were more rebounds off of threes than twos. What do you mean?

More rebounds off of threes? No. What are you talking about? Well, people miss more threes and they do twos. Correct. But I'm saying there were more rebounds off of threes than two no think about the way

the game is played and now never before we've had the volume of three I understand okay you know what I'm saying because of the way the NBA has changed where a team may very well take

half of their shots from three they might have 94 shots in the game and they might be 45 of your shots are three is you're going to miss more than you miss the other 50% which are two and so last year was the first year that there were more So to me, one of the things that that signals is, because sometimes you see big guys not getting as many rebounds anymore because there's not as many rebounds close to the basket. And so there's part of me that goes when you say, look, every team that's ever had Stephen Adams is the best offensive rebounding team in the NBA.

Like there is a absolute correlation between that. That being said, we talked about going into the season that they got a whole like lineup, like sometimes with 6-11. Okay, well, what if I'm, number one, they're not missing many threes. And number two, if other teams shoot, like, you've got a lot of open space length rebounds that take place. And they get all of them. They get all of them. Ball comes off the rim. I mean, it just stands to reason.

If I got a bunch of guys with seven foot wingspans that are taller than. Jabari, Durant, Adams, the Thompson. I'm taught. Should we be surprised at the team that is taller and longer than its opponents? He's able to retrieve the ball more often. I mean, but 42% is an insane number. It's, I mean, come on. This is obscene.

It's obscene. I agree with you. This is not sustainable. Of course, it's not sustainable. But it is obscene what's happened so far. And when do they play the Grizzles? Wednesday night. Oh, God.

Yeah, they might set the record. Oh, God. Oh, Joclandell revenge game. You discarded me. I've always liked Jocchland. Huh? What's not the like? Is Australian?

Is Australian? Yes. He is Australian. All right. The last one that I wanted to mention is I know that we spend most of our time talking about the game of basketball, but on the business of basketball, you know, every organization has a basketball side and a business side. This story about the X-Hawks employee is so wild that it bears mentioning. I don't think many people keep up with this. It's certainly when it's a name that you're unfamiliar with,

like it's the only reason you would ever know this name because the business guys are generally anonymous for teams. But a former Hawks executive had been, it was arrested for embezzling $3.8 million. Lester Jones is his name. And he was charged after his alleged crimes were uncovered through a team-backed audit for the report. Team-backed audit means they're looking for something.

You don't do an audit without suspicion. So the issue apparently came to light after he sent a request to the team's accounting department in January, looking for the team to pay off $229,000 on an American Express bill for a stay at the Wing Hotel in Las Vegas. Okay. we've all been to a hotel and had like the bottle of water that cost $8 or the gummy bears that cost $20. But how the fuck do you ring up $230,000? How many people were you paying for?

$230,000 for the wind hotel. How is that even possible? So I guess you would say I'm paying for the team, right? I'm paying for everybody's room. I'm paying, this is the whole bill. This is for everybody. He said the state was the legislation. taking place around the time the hawks were in the city

for the semifinals of the NBA Cup. Okay, they lost the game. So they were there for like two nights. It said well, no, here's the best part. You ready for the best part? There's so much good shit going on here. No, no, no, no, no.

You left that, here's the best part. The federal prosecutors in this deal. They said they didn't stay at the wind. Wouldn't even there. wait what they said he didn't stay at the win he allegedly authorized multiple corporate cards for himself

to Jones allegedly built a lavish lace out for himself while stealing money from the team including purchasing trips to Bahamas Hawaii, Thailand, Switzerland and other countries he also reportedly bought a Porsche concert tickets and more how did he get away with this

for so long. This is unbelievable. I'm not going to lie. I may have gone out with my friends to dinner and expensed it while I was at ESPN, but I would never buy a Porsche or a trip to the Bahamas. Like, what are you doing? A trip to the Bahamas? And it wasn't one trip. You said, Bahamas, Hawaii, Switzerland, Thailand, Thailand,

and other countries. I mean, nobody thought it was odd. The breaking point was, hey, man, did you really spend that much money at the win? Like $230,000. Because I think when you are in the finance department, you are sort of like where the buck stops.

Like you are the person that red flags this stuff. So if you're, it's like a, it's like a bad cops. It's like you're the person who's supposed to stop this. Okay. Also, this is when you know it's an insane story.

Is when you find out, he turned in this. bill to the win, but he never stayed at the win. And then he took these trips to all these different overseas places. And he bought a port. That's all enough, right? Of course. This is when you know the story is bananas.

It's when you get to the fourth paragraph. And it was Jones allegedly charged, changed financial reports, fake emails and diverted personal spending to Hawks operation accounts, right? That's not a big deal, right? but it says also he was reportedly in a romantic relationship with another team employee and used the money to buy her expensive gifts like when that is paragraph four that you were an executive going out with the team employee and buying her like purses and whatever like with team money it's like whoa dude this guy do you i mean jones it's listen to this jones reportedly

faked an email from American Express to trick the Hawks into paying the fraudulent win hotel bill in January. So he pretended to be American Express and wrote an email to himself demanding that they pay the win $230,000.

Do you think a guy like this thinks he's going to get away with it? Or do you think I or do you think it's like, you know what? I'm going to do this for his long as I can. I'm going to go see the world. I'm going to drive a porch. Right. Like,

you know you're not getting away with this. Oh, I like this. Right. Smoke them if you got them. Smoke them if you got them. Yeah. Almost like. This plane is going down. I'm going to have a cigarette. Right. Yeah, yeah. I was just diagnosed. I've got 30 days to live. And I'm going to do like, you know what I mean? You act like you would if somebody told you you've got a week. You've got a week. And And so he's like, you know what? I got this Hawks job. They seem to be like just paying for the stuff when I turned it in. Like, let me see how far I could go with this.

I'm going to go to the Bahamas. I'm going to go to. How could you buy a Porsche? How could you possibly buy a Porsche and act like that is a legitimate expense for an NBA basketball team? Do you think how? How? How, how, Sway? How can you buy a Porsche?

You don't have the answers. You do wonder. Like when he woke up and he found out that it had gotten flagged or somebody asked him the first question about it, do you think he was about time? He's like, finally, I knew this day I was going to cut. Damn. I knew.

You know what? I'm with you, Berneau. He probably didn't think he was going to get away with this. He was just like, you know what? I'm going to go as hard as possible. I've never been to Switzerland. Sure, I'll go to Switzerland. I'll charge it to the Atlanta Hawks.

Like, how do you, how can you legitimize a trip to Switzerland when you work for an end of the finance department of an Atlanta Hawks NBA team. I think I think I've gotten you on the same page with me. I just, I refuse to believe that somebody thinks they're getting away with this. Like, because it gets more brash and brash. It's like,

I'm, hey, you know that hot chink that works over there? I'm going to start buying her. Buyer Gucci purse. Hey, I'm buying a L. I'm buying a Porsche.

I'm going to Switzerland. I'm going to do everything I possibly. on this company card until they flag it. But like I've had a company card before when I worked at ASPN and I would like pay for a taxi cab. You know what I mean? And I would like, oh, I've pretended I took it

to a meeting or something. Like that's sort of like the the lengths of which that I've frauded the Disney corporation. The idea that this guy is going to a Porsche dealership and like test driving a 9-11 and then just getting his corporate card over and signing all those papers is wild. Wild.

$400. bucks, $400. Like, bro, I, you, you just like me have had to like do the expense report. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like, I'm like shuffling through my book bag to find the receipt from Hudson News for the rolled gold

and diet mountain you that I bought. And you have like tape the receipt to a piece of paper and like fax it to a number. I have expensed $8.34 cents before. Oh yeah. I'd expense Metro cards. The idea of expensing $4 million

is wild. There's just no way. That's why I refuse to believe there's a way that you think that it's not going to, I mean, come on, bro. Do you what I do like though? Verno, I do like this, though, because you brought me to this place, which I'm so happy you brought me here. I like the idea that someone was like, Mr. Jones,

you have to come to my office immediately. And then he walked in the room. And the boss looked at him and he looked at the boss and he smiled. Yeah. He smiled. He was like, he wasn't concerned. He wasn't like nervous. He didn't get a lawyer.

He smiled. He was like, oh, you guys finally caught up to me. I thought this meeting would happen a year ago. Also, my name's not Lester Jones. I'm Chauncey Billups. And these are David Jacobi's children. Oh my God. I mean, unbelievable.

Unbelievable story. I respect the fact that he took that many trips drove a Porsche and like, I mean, he did it all. He did it all. If you're going to get caught and you're going to like, this dude went big, he went big. I just love the idea that he's like dating this girl, driving a Porsche, going to the Bahamas, and then going to Hawks games and like joining Zoom calls and like doing Excel Sprint. spreadsheets like he's a normal employee.

Who does he report to? Who's his boss? That's the person that needs to be in trouble. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Truly. You know what? I respect him.

I was upset with him before I started this, but now I respect him. Hashtag free Lester. If you're going to be a criminal, be a criminal. Right? You know what I mean? Go all the way. I might have like gone to a steakhouse with a couple of buddies and expenses. This guy's in.

This guy's in Switzerland at a porch. Yeah. There's a lot of people that get in trouble and you're like, oh my God, you make millions of dollars and you did this for what? How could you do this? This guy? No.

I get it, bro. I get it. I'm hiring this guy. I'm hiring him. Our executive producer, Lester Jones. Yeah, Lester Jones is now the executive producer of the mismatch. Thank you. Our executive producer, Jesse Lopez, as always,

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