The Mismatch - NBA Abominations, Wemby's 5x5, and Defending This Year's Draft Class

Episode Date: February 27, 2024

Verno and KOC discuss the wild ending to the Knicks-Pistons game, as well as the weird state of the Nets franchise (01:19). Trae Young had surgery and is expected to miss four weeks, and the guys explain why the Hawks could use this time to evaluate their future (12:36). Also, they discuss how well Jaime Jaquez Jr. has performed this season, KOC’s experience watching the UCLA-USC basketball game over the weekend, and the unparalleled success of Kentucky guards in the league (20:09). The guys examine Victor Wembanyama’s extraordinary rookie season and explain why he is already destined to become one of the all-time greats (46:45). Got a question for Verno and KOC? Send them an email at [e-mail]! Or you can send the guys a tweet @ChrisVernonShow and @KevinOConnorNBA! The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming, please check out http://theringer.com/RG to find out more, or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In a world where coaches are still the main characters, the players are now legally chasing the ultimate bag, and the game of basketball is always the top priority. There was only one brand you can trust to help you wade through all the madness. Hey, I'm Tate Frazier from One Shiny Podcast, and you can join me twice a week as we navigate the always entertaining world of college basketball. Every Monday, the ringer's comment helps me make sense of the biggest stories from the weekend, and on Fridays we talk to our many friends of the program. We're locked in on the best postseason in sports. Make sure you follow One Shining Podcasts on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to The Mismatch.

I'm Chris Vernon and joining me on this Tuesday morning from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, aka Kevin Obama, Kevin O'Connor, Kevin O'Climber, Kevin O'Climber, Kevin O'Champton, Kevin O'Cand, Kevin O'Blessarian, Kevin O'Boh. Oh, how are you doing, man? How's your Tuesday morning? It's good.

I will tell you about the horrible basketball game I went very briefly in a moment, but the big news from last night was the Knicks stole one against the lowly Detroit Pistons. And we got one of the best coaching rants of this season about a one minute to minute and a half monologue from Monty Williams in which he called it an abomination and the worst call of the year in the NBA. You do feel bad for Monty Williams and the Pistons. Nicks get one back after they felt like one was stolen from them

that we chronicled in Houston a couple of weeks ago. But that seemed to be the biggest news on the timeline last night was that a free-for-all at the very end of the game ended with a Josh Hart and one and the Knicks stealing one against the Detroit Pistons. And so the miserable season for the Pistons has another moment for the DVD. And the Knicks, I don't think, can now spend a tremendous amount of time complaining about that one where the Brunson call was made in Houston because they got that one back. And then afterwards, the refs did say, like it's any consolation.

Yeah, we did screw that up. You had like, Dante DiVinchenzo, Troy Palomalu into the guy. Definitely. It was a wrong, no call. It should have been a foul call of DiVenchenzo. With that said, I can understand what the refs saw in the moment, because with the baseline camera view of that play, it didn't look like Thompson had full control of the ball.

It looked like he kind of lost his handle. And even though Devin Dengenjo did get into the knees, he palomalud, as you said, it did feel like a loose ball from that angle, and even Devenchenjo did get contact with the ball first. So I get it from that angle. It should have been a call, but I think in like the heat of the action, in the moment, it did feel like he did lose control of the ball. And maybe he did.

And maybe if, you know, Dante made a cleaner strip of the ball, it wouldn't be a whole thing. It would have just been, you know, a sloppy turnover by Osar at the end of the game. Monty Williams is a good guy, nice guy, done a bad job with the piston, certainly this year. Let me just say, when you get railroaded at the end of a game, you got to know that you're up against Darko and Toronto for the best rant of the year. And while I do think that abomination is an unbelievable word

to use in that moment, like the standard has already been set. Like he has set the bar for my team get screwed, routinely get screwed, and enough is enough, right? Because we had the Dark O one where he was doing the, they had the win tonight. That's the case.

They just let us know and we won't show up for the game. And then he went on to do the, you know, how to play the game, how to play the game. how to play the game, right? And then he went a little far with the Scotty Barnes face of the league and all that, whatever. But you know that the bars up there. And Darko had defeated, there was one earlier in the season where Taylor Jenkins said, effing atrocious, and he got a huge fine when he was talking about the refs.

But Monty Williams, I think he got in the top five of the best coaches outbursts after the game. but certainly the bar you know, I was said earlier in the year with Darko and no one has surpassed it yet. So I was a little disappointed if you know that that's the one then you got this is your moment.

I mean, your team's got nine wins. Why not? You know, and you're going to get fined. You can't expect that for Monty Williams though. Monty doesn't have that in them. This is the first time all year Pistons fans saw him show any heart or enthusiasm out.

all. He is plain Jane boring and that's all there is to it. This is remarkable achievement from him to even show this to walk off the way he did. I mean, by his standards this is incredible. That's interesting. He should feel proud of himself.

So you can't match Darko. There's no chance. So this is Corey Brewer scoring 50 when he was playing for the Timberwolves. You're judging it like... Oh, perfect. Interesting. Okay. Yeah, that's a perfect way to put it.

You perfect way to put it. Corey Brewer, drop in 50. That's what this is. Yeah. So you got to give it to Monty Williams. I'm not in the business of comparing. He did a good job. I don't agree with everything he said,

but he's the head coach. He's got to say it. You know, good job, Monty Williams. I mean, worst call of the year is strong, right? Because there's been a lot of bad calls. Worst call of the year. But not true, you know. If Monty really, that's not exactly true, though.

I mean, it's definitely false. Not the worst call of the year. Osar should have grabbed the ball with two hands and took better care of the ball. He was reckless with the ball and he was losing it. So, I mean, yes, it was a foul because of the contact, but it was a loose ball. So, I mean, it wasn't the worst call of the year. I thought Thompson was reckless with the ball more than anything else. Well, and I will take issue a little bit with the word abomination because I'm a little upset.

Good word, though. Good word. It's a good word. But I'm kind of upset because that was the word I was going to use for the Grizzlies Nets game that I was at. And now I feel like Monty. You are a professional at these transitions, Chris. I just feel like Monty kind of took the luster off of me using what is actually was a real abomination. and that was the basketball game. In fact, I would petition

that if the Department of Homeland Security were to come across those that are engaged in terrorist activity, I would encourage them to throw said terrorists in a room, put on that Grizzlies Nets game, and just press play, and I promise you by the second quarter, they'll be like, all right, I'll talk, I'll talk. Anything you want.

Please don't make me watch the rest of this. I felt like I was held captive having to watch this mess of a game last night. But look, the only reason I'm bringing it up is because there was a moment where I was watching it. And I was like, you know, I am, I got a surprise they suck this bad. Because they've got like, it's all role players. But they don't have a bunch of guys that you think stink. you know, like they should be about average, right? They should be probably about a 500 team.

Maybe Jacques Vaughn did a poor job, and obviously they ran him out. Now they've got Kevin Ali, and they didn't exactly respond to him the first couple of games, but then they saw that they had Biffis on their schedule and just beat them down. And maybe I saw them on the right night because obviously they had scored less than 100 in the games before that. But there was a moment where I was watching it. I'm like, why do they suck this bad? Like they got some pretty good players.

If you were to just line them up, there are a bunch of guys that you would take on your team. Just a bad collection, weird collection of a bunch of role guys, not really star. You know, they don't really have the star. McKell Bridges is miscast as the star. But, you know, you look at the standings and you see the Trey Young injury, and we'll see. That could go one or two ways for Atlanta. obviously they had a good performance and DeJante Murray was awesome. First time out, we're going to pay close attention to that.

But maybe because of that injury and they're sitting at 10, if they falter like a lot, it's not inconceivable that the Nets could actually somehow get into that play in, which we've figured by last week when we did the show that the 10 were already solidified. But I don't know. I mean, they're not any good, but now with the Hawks, who knows, right? And we've got to talk about that because that's happened since we last spoke. Sure. One quick note on your Grizzlies and five games with Memphis.

Lamar Stevens, 12.4 points per game on 59% from the field, seven rebounds a game. I'm in a block. One assists. Oh, man, a 17 points last night, too. What a baller. I don't even want to talk about him because he's an unrestricted free agent. I don't want somebody to sign him. He don't want to boost the stock.

I want him to, no. I want to be able to keep him. That guy comes, I swear to God. He is one of those guys. Before we, before we talk Lamar Stevens, we have to tell the executives to cover their ears who are listening to our podcast. Stop listening. Don't listen. Don't listen to Darry. Don't listen.

I swear, he is one of the. those guys, they're getting blasted. You know, he comes in, it doesn't even matter if he comes in off the bench, you're down 25, or he comes in and it's a two-point game. He goes a hundred every time he's out on the court. I love guys like this. I do. I love them.

No matter, you got a bunch of guys that are just going through the motions, shooting terrible shots. And this guy is, like, playing like it's game seven of the finals. And I'm like, don't tell him it's grizzly. these nets. I love Lamar's David. He's made such an impression on me. He's the only thing worth watching.

Honestly, anyways, the nets are miserable. You all right about the nets, though, Chris. Why are they so bad? I think the nets being bad speaks to how deep the league is. Maybe so. You're right. The vets have a lot of good players. Nick Claxton, an excellent switch

defender. McKell Bridge is one of the best permanent defenders in basketball and a very good, you know, second or third option. on offense. It's just he's being asked to be the number one. I think they have a lot of good talented players. Dorian Finney Smith, great 3 and D guy. Cam Johnson. You're right. It's all you're right. It's all fourth options. All fourth options. Yes. And so they're just, they're lacking the stars that a lot of teams have one or two of. So I think for Brooklyn, that's all that's really missing. They have everything else with the role players. But with Brooklyn, they definitely do

have a chance here. There are three games back from Atlanta. Atlanta is going to be without Trey Young for four weeks at least after surgery on his left hand. I think for the Hawks side of things, this could end up being a good thing for them to be without Trey. For the same reasons we talked about back in January when I made the argument to trade Trey instead of DeJante, because if you don't have Trey, now you can increase the value of DeJante Murray. This season, without Trey Young, he's averaging 25 points per game on 60% true shooting with 7.7 assists. If he does that for the next month straight or the next five or six weeks, however long Trey is out, instead of the numbers that he's been putting up with Trey, 19.8 points per game on 53.4% true shooting and 4.2 assists per game per 36, per 36 on those

numbers, by the way. Those numbers aren't awesome with Trey, but they are awesome without Trey. That can show other teams, hey, here's the value of the Jante Murray. That could allow the Hawks to trade him this summer, get a stronger return back. and maybe you can build around Trey. If you do lose some games here, maybe you slip out of the plane, you get higher lottery odds. Maybe you end up moving up into the top four,

and that gives you more draft capital for trades to build around Trey Young. And also, you're getting an extended look here at Kobe Buffkin. He just had 41 points, their rookie wing. He's had 41 points in the G League recently. Good score. He's got great feel for the game. How does he look next to the Jante Murray?

So I think for the Hawks, They get over the next four weeks or more clarity on what the team could look like without Trey. It gives other teams around the league to get an idea of what these guys look like value-wise. So I think for Atlanta, this is a place to figure out who you are, what you have, and what you want to do this off-season. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that they're better. And if they are, doesn't that give you some extreme clarity, doesn't it? And then you go, hey, better, better.

What if they are? It's not crazy to think that they could be. You've seen a lot of teams band together. We would have never in a million years thought that Cleveland could play great basketball when they are without Darius Garland and Evan Mobley. But they did. They play great basketball without those guys. And sometimes less is more.

And it's like, okay, neither of those two guys are role players. And they both are at their best, to your point about those numbers, with the ball in their hands. And so is there a possibility? You know, we've been talking about this trade thing for a long time,

and I told you, what was it, three weeks ago, and it did not get much attention. But Kendrick Perkins went on ESPN. It was like, right after the trade deadline. They just need to stay pat. I can't say who it is, but there's a superstar on his way to L.A. And I came on here and talked to you, and I'm like, bro, is he talking about, like, because who else he talking about? Seriously.

Yeah, it's Trey Young. It's right. Okay. Well, and you know he's with clutch now. And so, like, maybe they could. Or, and obviously you've got the San Antonio who's got those assets and you had brought that up before as maybe a pairing. And so it's possible that the return you could get if they play well. Now, again, it's also possible they go the wrong.

This is just going to be an unbelievable evaluation. I think you're going to be getting done with this and go, you know what? We could build a Keith Murray and he's cheaper. And it's because you can't imagine, no matter what any Hawks fan think, Well, you're not coming into next year with Murray and Young. No, you're not. It's going to get split up. It will.

It will be split up. So now you have an opportunity to see, okay, what would it look like without Trey? And then with the assets, because you could get by far the bigger return for him. You get a huge return. Yep. You get a huge return. It's very possible that the Hawks lose games.

Like you said they could be better, but they could still be losing games, you know, assure that they're not in the play in or just be in the bubble and get a higher draft pick and still decide to trade trade, tray and they could still decide to trade tray and keep DeJante. It's possible. So I think for Atlanta here, this is where that clarity comes in. You get an extended look to find out what you look like without him. And I think for Hawks fans, this should be a time to be open-minded and look at this team, especially with Kobe Buffkin getting minutes off the bench.

He played 14 minutes the other night. I hope he gets way more games playing 20, 25, even 30 minutes. I want to see extended looks at him. I want to see him play next to the Jante Murray and see how he looks and play with Jalen Johnson. I want to see two-man action with those guys together. This is a time for the Hawks to experiment for Quinn Snyder to find out what this roster really has. And I think for Atlanta fans, you know, be open-minded here because this can end up being a in the skies.

Well, I think you'd feel differently if your team was any good. I mean, you're sitting here. Sure. Yeah. You're in the playing anyway. What the hell does it matter? Yeah. No doubt about it.

If you felt like you were at a chance to win the finals, this isn't the Sixers losing a beat, right? Right. It's way different. That's right. So this is going to be an interesting evaluation over the course of the next month. Get buckets with your first bet on fan duel. America's number one sports book because right now new customers get $150 and bonus bets with any winning $5 bet.

Tuesday night in the NBA, we get the bucks and the Hornets. Milwaukee should win this game. But plus 14 and a half points for Charlotte, the number one defensive rating in the league ever since the All-Star break. I'm intrigued. I think Hornets with the points, they should be able to cover that. And also, I think if you want to look ahead, it's getting their award season now. Now, Wembe is looking like the obvious rookie of the year. Yokic is the MVP favorite.

But if you want to look at some of the underdogs right now for MVP plus 700, Luka, plus 1,500, Janus, I'm intrigued by those numbers for defensive player of the year. Gobert is a heavy favorite right now. But Wembe at plus 1,600, Anthony Davis, plus 5,000 potential value bets there. If their teams close the season stronger, if Gobert were to miss any time at all. And then for sixth man of the year, there's no clear-cut favorite right now. Malik Monk is the favorite at minus 145, but Norm Powell, Nasree, Bogdan Bogdanovich. There's a lot of guys that are intriguing bets for sixth man of the year.

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$10 first deposit required. Bonus issued as non-dithdrawable bonus bets that expire seven days after a seat. See terms at sportsbook.fandil.com. Other thing that happened last night, there were not many games on the slate. The Kings lost one to Miami. And, you know, I kind of feel like the Kings a little bit like I do. the pelicans where it's like every time I'm like I watch them and I get super impressed. Then the next time out, they do something where I'm like, what?

What's your deal? Like they obviously can play with the best of the best. But they obviously could get caught as well. And they had won three straight. They beat the nuggets and the clippers. And then they get punked out on their home floor against Miami without Jimmy Butler. And I was reading this article this morning by Tristi Rodriguez, who writes for NBC Bay area.

And she was, the article was basically the Kings and Mike Brown, they deny what has happened. But it is an ongoing joke amongst Kings fans that as soon as they see somebody's out for the other team, they're like, oh, now we're going to lose. And so you had Jimmy Butler,

who's obviously not playing last night. Rozier wasn't playing as well. There's a couple other guys. No hero either. Well, and she, she went to the, whole article, she's like, these losses, it's like Boston without Tatum, Minnesota without towns, the Blazers without Shaden Sharp and DeAndre Yaten, the Hornets ended their 11 game

losing streak against them, the Pelicans without Zion, the 76ers without MB, the Pacers without Halliburton, the pistons without Cunningham and Bogdanovitch, who were their two leading scorers. And then they beat the nuggets, and then they beat the clippers, and then they turn around and here's another team that's got somebody out. So they faced a bunch of these teams, even some with good records that just happened to be without guys and just have not taken advantage of it over and over again. And so it's hard to figure out kind of where they are.

They're teetering one day they're fifth and the next day they're seventh. And there's going to be a bunch of teams fighting tooth and nail not to have to play their way into the playoffs this year. And the Kings certainly are going to regret not take into. advantage of playing a bunch of teams this year that have been without their guys. And Hockes, by the way, was awesome in his start. I thought the King's Heat game showed why Eric Spulstra is such an excellent coach, showing how he game plans without some of his stars and also some of the flaws on the King's side of things.

Because in that third quarter, when the Heat built their 20-point lead, they used Hakez, the size advantage that he had over Malik Monk, over Kevin Herder. They had him posting up. They had him driving against those smaller defenders, getting anywhere he wanted on the floor. They had Kevin Love posting up, looking like vintage K-love from the post, scoring at will. And throughout the entire game, not just, you know, the third quarter where they built their lead, bam out of bio, I thought showed off some of his subtle improvements as a score, you know, with some good pink touches he had. like a left hook over Harrison Barnes.

He had some kind of mid-range pull-ups, isoing against Trey Liles. He had, you know, drives, face-ups and whatnot from the left block. He showed his versatility scoring out of pick and rolls, you know, short roll, playmaking, kickouts for threes. Bam had a great full game. And I think for the heat side of things, this showed how they get the most out of their guys.

They don't have Butler, they don't have Rozier, they don't have hero. So then they get it from others. And I thought that took great game planning and intent from the Heat coaching staff to dictate who's going to be the focus of that game plan. And for the Kings side, they just don't have size, man. They just don't have size of the wing position. And I thought the Heat did a really good job exploiting that. Some would say that's heat culture. In fact, they would say it.

And they would say it on their jerseys and they would say it with like Warren Peace, War and Peace written out on their court describing. how we're better than you at doing this. But it is kind of crazy. They could always just plug and play. It's not Hami Hockas. It's Caleb Martin. And it's like, I mean,

you see him without Jimmy Butler. And it's like, okay, why is Hami Hockes immediately turning into Jimmy Butler in this game? It's wild. Plug and play. And he is so skilled, man.

Some of the shots that he hit, just like these elite, touch shots where you feel like you're getting a good contest he's just too big you know too skilled there's literally nothing you can do about it he's just going to put the ball in it's you it's like there's not many guys like you look at like yokic is like that where it's like damn man what more could i have done man just got that touch that's what that's and it is wild Kevin because it's like we could go back probably a year we could probably go back a year in Find a podcast where we're talking about

Hamihakis at UCLA. And it's not like he snuck up on anybody. Like, Hamihakis was awesome college. He's there for years. And he was great. Yeah. And yet, people are going to look back and be like,

geez, man, she's just taking it. And I remember going back through it. It's like from 16, 17 with Dilla Brooks, who was, you know, look, I have,

I've had my issues with Dill Brooks. But Dill Brooks is going to make $100 billion dollars. playing in the NBA and was a second round pick. He was Pact 12 player of the year and then D'Andre Aiton and then Jalen Noelle, who I don't believe is on a team right now. He was actually on a 10 day earlier in the year with the Grizzlies, but he's an NBA player. Peyton Pritchard, Evan Mowgli, Ben Matherin,

and then Hamehakis. I don't know who will be Pact 12 player of the year this year, but it's been a pretty reasonable bet to just take the guy who was Pact 12 player of the year. It's turned out pretty well over the years. Even the year before Brooks, how about this one? Yacup Portal. He still has it. He still got a, I didn't even, I don't remember Yacup Portal playing at Utah at all.

But that did happen once upon a time. Anyways, yeah, he's one of those guys where it's like hiding in plain sight. And then when he got drafted when he did, everybody's like, ooh, that's perfect. Yeah. They're really, it feels like the Ravens or the Steelers, right? You'd be watching like a NFL draft and you'd be like, how the hell did they get Terrell Suggs? Like, this is crazy.

Or how did they get, there'd be somebody that dropped and it's like everybody knew the guy is awesome, but somehow the obvious team just took him. And then we were like, yeah, surprise, surprise. And then here we are in his rookie year and Jamehakis is already good. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. That's a miss. miss for a lot of teams.

I'll tell you one player that won't be Paxville player of the year. Uh-oh. Ronnie James. Oh, no. Leave him alone. Yeah. I'm sorry, LeBron.

Did you not read LeBron's tweet? Did you not read his tweet? I know. Yeah. Is it as if LeBron? I know. Kevin is, Kevin is saying, uh, is referencing. ESPN

drop Brony James out of the mock track Out of their 2024 mark draft And then they put him in the second round Of their 2025 mock one year After having him in the top 10 Of the 2024 mark And LeBron reacted And I look

I empathize as a parent Like the Hey leave him alone Because you know this I get it when you're a kid You're probably looking at this and then everybody's, you know, it's big news. It is big news.

But the kid has been big news. Yes. Well, because his name's LeBron James Jr. That's part of it. And because his father talks about him is like, he's already ready for the NBA. He can help a bunch of teams. He could help the Lakers. LeBron, look, when he dropped out of the mock draft,

I'm not trying to jump on him too bad. But when he dropped out of the mock draft, it was leave him alone. But when he was in an earlier mock draft and he was projected to go 17th to Atlanta, LeBron James sent out a message. Looks like the game James gang is headed to Atlanta. Ha, ha, you know, and was celebrating the mock draft. Or last year, LeBron tweeted out that he was watching league pass and LeBroni was better than tons of guys he was watching. So, like, part of the reason that there is all this attention and the reason that it's a story

was initiated by LeBron himself, right? So I think that's why a lot of people, when he tweets out, hey, leave him alone. It's not like he was just able to operate in silence or away from the limelight. His dad, who has literally a billion followers, is telling us he's better than half the NBA. and is celebrating where he is on mock drafts. And then when he's not on a mock draft, it's like, shut up, leave him alone, let him have his career in peace, earned, not given.

It's like, what is happening? This is a bizarre world. You think this is why LeBron deleted the post? Oh, he deleted it? He deleted it. Oh, wow. I did not see he deleted it. He deleted it.

Well, because everybody found all the old promoting Brani stuff. I mean, look, he did promote. He promoted his kid a lot. Yeah. And I don't, I don't fault him for that. That's a proud dad. Yeah. He's a loving father.

But you can't tell everybody to leave him alone because he wasn't in a mock graph. Yeah, for sure. I mean, you know, it's so funny. I see on Instagram he also posted that he got his 500th win online in Madden. Congrats to LeBron for that. That's an impressive accomplishment, 500 wins in Madden. You saw LeBron James, you saw Brony in person over the weekend, right? I was at the USC UCLA game on Saturday.

I think it was on Saturday. What kind of environment? I mean, it's a good environment. I like UCLA games. They're a lot of fun. Yeah, I like the college basketball environments. I always have a fun time with those games. Fans are always into it.

Even though UCLA's not good this year, people around me are like into the game, like live in and dying and every single play. Like it's a cool environment. And it's a rivalry. Yeah, it's a rivalry game too. It was great. Yeah, it was a good competitive game for the most part.

You know, on the UCLA side, there's, you know, a lot of disappointments. Like a daimata, their seven foot Spanish center. He was a guy I had in the top 10 entering the season. has did a lot of people. He looks undraftable. Right now, he looks so soft, doesn't set strong screens. Looks like he lumberes around the floor, just lollygags, you know, in transition.

He does not look anywhere near ready. He's still got some touch scoring. Like, he hasn't really had, he's not in an offense to show off his playmaking skill as a center, which is what I liked most about him playing in Spain. So we'll see if he could still turn into something, but he should not, he should not declare for the draft. He should probably transfer away from UCLA, maybe even go back somewhere overseas, a team that better suits his skill set. And on the USC side of things, Brony will talk about him first, a forgettable game, which most of them have been for him.

He's just, he's competitive defensively. He's definitely got a high basketball IQ. I think with Brony, the thing that, the reason why I was always skeptical about him as an actual NBA draft prospect is the jump. I know you watch the highlights. The jumper looks good. It looks smooth. It looks perfect. But in high school, he shot around 30% from three. He shot around 65% from the free throw line. He's putting up sub 30% from three numbers at USC, sub 70% from the free throw line. So he just might not have touch. And if a 6 foot one guard, and he's definitely not listed 6'4 height, by the way. If a 6-1, 6-2 guard doesn't have a knockdown jumper, and they're not a lead playmaker, like it's, it's a hard path to get to the league

if your name isn't LeBron James Jr. So I think for him, he's kind of on a Davion Mitchell trajectory where it's like maybe as a junior, as an upperclassman, you figure out your jumper and you have a hot shooting season and you turn yourself into a prospect because of your defense and your secondary creation,

your high IQ, your hustle, your heart, and your shooting. shooting, but he needs to have that year as a shooter. And by the way, Davian Mitchell has not been able to carve out a role in the Kings because his jumper has proven to be an outlier that final season he played at Baylor. So I think for Brony, he's got to figure out the jumper in order to be a player, but he's got the defensive ability. It's like a shame you couldn't combine him with Isaiah Collier. Isaiah Collier is the guy that people project potentially into the lottery this year at USC. He's a 6-2-6-3 guard, you know, strong body. He kind of looks like a football player.

He's very shift. Yeah, he's a tank. He's very shifty athletically, you know, downhill burst, getting to the basket. He's a very exciting player to watch. If you could kind of, you know, take some of that and also, you know, improve his basketball IQ. You'd have a clear top five pick. But with Collier, he's sloppy with decision-making, you know, he had some passes, you know, driving the basket where he just threw it out of bounds. The jumper is not that good for him either. He's, again, like a not a reliable shooter, not a reliable outside threat. He doesn't have great size.

I like the fact he communicates. He talks with his teammates a lot. He's clearly a director out there. He's trying to be a leader, trying to be a point guard. That's all encouraging. But I think he just more than anything else needs to improve his passing vision, his passing accuracy. And then hopefully over the course of time, the jumper becomes reliable.

viable. But I don't love him either. I don't love any of the prospects. I do think Collier's too low. I just drafted him on talent. Yeah. It's, you know what? I don't know. You know who it's a little reminiscent of. It's a little reminiscent to me of a guy that I liked who is who's going to have a long NBA career, but never be like an NBA all-star or Cole Anthony. Same kind of deal. Amazing high school player, very highly ranked, but did not have a good college year. how high do I want to take Cole Anthony though? There's a lot of players in this draft. Like, look, this draft, I forget if we talked about this, I think I said this on Bill's Pod.

It's not, it's weak for clear-cut stars. It's actually quite strong for good role players. And it's actually really deep for good role players, like really deep. There's a lot of guys that you can look at. And like if you're a good team already, if you're the Oklahoma City Thunder with multiple players, picks as an example. If you're the Miami Heat drafting in the middle of the first round,

if you're, if you're, you know, even the Grizzlies, you know you've got John Morant coming back. You got Desmond Bean, you get Sharon Jackson Jr. You can find a guy that fits what your roster is missing.

That's what this draft provides. I got you. But I look. And my point is, my point is is what Isaiah Collier, for certain, I think there's certain teams you're willing to take a swing. Like,

the worst, we get a Cole Anthony type of energizer. At the best, maybe he runs into something really good. Like that's for certain teams, I think that's the case. But there's a lot of teams where I wouldn't make that argument. I wouldn't make that for, for like your team Memphis. I wouldn't make it for Houston where you already have a lot of initiators. I wouldn't make it for Oklahoma City where you already get SGA and Giddy and a bunch of guys who are going to handle the ball. I wouldn't make it for Portland when you just drafted Scoot Henderson. I wouldn't make it for a lot of teams that to look for that type of guy. So that's where I'm like,

maybe he ends up in the middle of the first round instead of, you know, in the top five, top seven. You say that, but I mean, you can, I mean, it wouldn't have been necessarily the fit to take G.G. Jackson either.

And again, another guy who was. Yeah, but he's a second round pick. I got you. That's when you take swings, Chris, it's the second round. What I'm saying is,

most of these guys at the top, I'm not all that impressed with. So I would take the body of work prior to the one year in college as evidence that, hey, we lined all these guys up for the last 20 years. And everybody said this guy was the best one. Or one of the three best. And I think you'll be in the NBA for over 10 years. So if I know that for sure, I don't think that it is crazy.

you know, I don't think the ceiling, nobody's got this, like, crazy, obvious all-NBA ceiling from this. So give me the guy that's going to be around for a long time because I do think the guy is going to be a professional basketball player in the NBA for a very long time. How much Kentucky have you watched this year? I'm curious about your Reed Shepard and Rob Dillingham takes.

Love them both. Yeah, they're fun, right? Yes. In their own respective ways. Yes. I mean, Dilliam, that last game that he had last weekend, the 23 point game, I think it was in a loss, in fact. It was, yeah. Very Malik-esque.

He was, right? Like, I mean, man, talent-wise, he is. He can go. He's a bucket. Yeah, he really is. And I saw a monk playing college when he was on the Fox team. I actually went to the game that they got beat. by Luke May at the buzzer.

That was in Memphis. But I like Dillingham for sure. I think he's super talented. And I really do like Reed Shepard. And I like that Shepard does some defensive stuff too. I just think that, look, I covered John CalPerry for a long time. And I saw this year he's got like 700,000 NBA players. Now, you're going to be able to find a couple of them,

Tyler Uless and Daniel Orton and there'll be ones here and there that didn't make it or didn't have NBA careers, right? But there's a whole lot more that were better than the NBA than they were there. Not the least of which is your guy, Devin Booker.

And I think you just take Kentucky guards and you could just close your eyes and draft them and you probably hit it. You know what I mean? Like seriously. Like even Emmanuel quickly.

Like, just was in a huge train. Yeah, Jamal Murray. I mean, you could go on and on and on and on. She gives us Alexander on and on and like, you know, and there are going to be a lot of them. A lot of, Tyrese Maxie. There's a budget like awesome Kentucky guard. Endless. It's endless.

So. How about Kason Wallace? Yeah, Kays and Wallace. I don't even have to over think of it. Deer and Fox. Yes. So how many of them? And you're going to be able to bring up a couple of them. The Harrison twins and Ulyss and a couple others. But generally. The Harrison twins, what a throwback. But generally, you're going to be able to just, who started for Kentucky? Okay. I'll take them. And you're probably going to have a guy with a long NBA career. Does it? Is it? Hell! We just talked about Fox and Monk.

They're both in Sacramento. They were on the team together with Bam Otabio, by the way, and others. But there's a bunch of them over the years. And so I would kind of look at it and go, all right, I'll just close my eyes and take them. And how many of those guys have gone later? Looker didn't go in the top 10. Gilder's Alexander didn't go in the top 10. Maxie didn't go in the top 10

Monk did Fox did for sure Fox did Monk I think did I think he was either 7 or 11 is the number I have in my head So he did Yeah quickly

late Monk was 11th to the Hornets Okay So not top 10 Even quickly late Yeah There's a bunch of them So yeah

Whatever I think about any Kentucky guys. Tyler Hero. Late. I mean, at post, I'm saying, none of them got,

literally, none of them got drafted where they should have. None of them. Yeah. Yeah. Almost all those guys we listed. All of them go higher in a redraft.

Even Fox should have gone before, uh, Lonzo. Yeah. And before faults, of course. Giltz is Alexander goes like, one probably, right?

Like if you're redrafting. Yeah. So you asked me about Rob Dillingham. It's not even about Rob Dillingham. That's what I tell you. How many times do I have to see this? How many times does this have to happen? Because I just named off like guys that are like award winning and or all star level

players. Guys are like six man of the year or in fact. three of those Monk quickly Hero have all been in our six man of the year conversation for the last three seasons and or won the damn award

and it's like Maxie I mean obviously he was unfortunately a six man under Doc Rivers for a minute but another one and none of them get drafted so I don't know you like him I love them both I just close my eyes and draft his ass

Yeah, I like Dillingham. Dillingham's progress this year, I hope it sustains moving forward in the NBA. He was more of like a, you know, a me first player at prior levels. He went to, you know, Kanye's Donda Academy and then he played for the overtime elite. And he was more of a selfish decision maker on the court. But his playmaking has improved. He's putting in more effort on defense on top of the scoring that he's showing. So I hope this is like sustainable for him moving forward. And then with. Reed Shepherd, I mean, the dude's shooting 50% from three and he is like a high IQ decision maker on the floor. And like his defense, I have never seen a guy so small make such an impact in the way that he does. He's six feet tall and he gets five steals a game, three blocks a game. It's every night that he's putting up huge numbers on defense. He's just everywhere on the floor. He has incredible hand-eye coordination, anticipation skills. He knows how to read the defense. He knows what he knows how to read the offense. He knows what offenses are going to be doing. His defense is absurd. So even though he's smaller and even though he'll get overpowered sometimes by bigger,

stronger players, the defensive impact to me is like pretty clear that this guy's going to be a menace on ball and off ball at the next level. And if you put him in the right situation, like if you put him on Oklahoma City or you put him on San Antonio whether there's size and rim protection or even put him, you know, on a team like Memphis with Jaron Jackson Jr. inside. Like if there's rim protection to pair with him, like I think that pick and roll defense could be absolutely outstanding. And by the way, the real stat is 0.7 blocks per game, 2.7 steals per game. I'm exaggerating with those numbers. But he has had plenty of games where he's rocking out blocks and steals at like.

an outrageous level. Yeah. I think you're pretty safe just taking Kentucky guys, even if they're having another disappointing season. Yeah. The tough eval will be

Justin Edwards this year. Justin Edwards has had a really terrible season aside from his lone game against Alabama, where he had 28 points on 10 of 10 shooting, but he was a lottery prospect

entering the year. Some people projected him as number one. I had him, I think, at like 9, number nine back in August. So I wasn't quite as high as a lot of draft evaluators, draft evaluators out there. But, you know, he still has talent. And like, he showed that talent against Bama. And hopefully he has more good games moving forward because,

you know, he's 6-8, it's got size. He's a, you know, smooth shot creator. He's just going to find a way to get those shots to fall. And hopefully he continues that. And he's, again, one of those types of guys you're talking about worth a gamble. He's a Kentucky player. You know, it's tough to get all the touches and minutes and developmental opportunities there. Maybe he ends up panning out in the NBA's worth a swing for damn sure. We got to talk about NBA players and seeing them in person. Bill and Ryan recorded a podcast, and one of their topics was about seeing NBA players in person. As you know, I go to whatever it is, 41 plus the preseason plus playoffs.

What do you think about their lists? Any big disagreements or missing players? Jail wasn't mentioned, right? I know he doesn't, he's not playing right now. But he's not playing right now. Look, I will just tell you, so on my local show post All-Star break, I think there were like 14 home games remaining. And there's like the Lakers, Oklahoma City. Philly, there's a bunch of good ones.

But I said that if I had like, if you could give me tickets to one game, the rest of the year, and this is in Memphis, and I think this would apply to many other markets, too much. me, it's, and maybe it's unfair because I've seen all the other guys before. But if I were just getting tickets as an NBA fan in any market to a game, it is Wembe, and then there is a massive gap to everybody. You have got to see this shit in person to believe it. We're on the same exact page. And so honestly, like mine would be a top two.

And then everybody else. There are two times that I have gone extra early to gangs this year. And it is Wembe and it is Curry. I always do it what Golden State comes in time. Because the warm up is a sight to behold for Curry. It's a show. And he literally starts shooting from half court and just making them one after another. And it's like you're at the damn circus.

And even more circus-like was showing up. And when you walk out there and you're watching Wembe warm up, you can't believe this is a real human. You can't. And then watching him in person, which you had the opportunity to do over the weekend. So this is perfect. And you said we're on the same page.

To me, it's Wembe Yama and then it's everybody else. Because he is literally in 20-something years of going to games, He is like nothing I have ever seen in my life. And I can't say that about anybody else. Nobody. But Yao Ming was like that. The first time, I mean, I'm old. So the first time I saw Yao Ming, I was like, God, this is ridiculous.

It really was. He was just a massive human being, Yao Ming. So that was cool. And I remember that. but not since Yao have I seen something where I just couldn't believe what I was watching that this was really a human. He really is unlike any player we have ever seen

because he has the height, the towering size of a Yao, but he also has the fluidity and the ball handling of a much smaller player of a six foot seven wing. And just seeing him do it all on the floor is just nutty. The way opponents kind of just like steer their ball handling away from him as they attack the paint they're just like I don't

want to mess with this guy it's just so crazy to see it all in person like he is just so big he's gigantic dude Kevin how many people on the planet or taller than him like you can probably not many I love to know the numbers yeah and he's playing basketball and he's playing basketball level. And he's awesome. Like, it's, it really is.

If, if, if they walked him out while we went to, like, uh, Barnum and Bailey circus and my, and they said, though,

and here's the world's tallest man. My kids would be like, ooh, ooh, you know what I mean? Like you literally could be in the circus. He's that ridiculous. And then he's awesome.

At basketball, he's like crossing people over and shit. It's crazy. So to me, they really, that would be my one huge argument. They vastly undersold what that guy is like to see in person. It's crazy. Yeah, I mean, his first quarter that he had when he had like 13 points and six minutes, and he had this crazy block from behind on Austin Reeves where he reached across like half the paint in order to block the shot.

Like that happened right in front of me because I'm on, I was on that right baseline. side in the media section. And like you, you saw it coming from a mile away. As soon as Austin Reeves grabbed the rebound off of his miss shot. And then Wembe's just lurking from behind. You're like, ho, ho, ho.

Like, you know it's coming. You know the block is coming. And it did. I mean, look, Wembe is going to go down as the greatest defensive player of all time. If he stays healthy when it's all set and done, he will be the greatest defensive player of all time. He's already one of the best defensive players in the league.

That's why he's, you know, going to get defensive player of the year votes. I don't think he'll win over Rudy O'Bare this year. But Wemby's right up there right now is the best defender in the league. And offensively, the one stat that I find fascinating with him, Chris, he is shooting over 40% on dribble jumper three-pointers. Over 40% on dribble jumper threes. And some of them he shoots off one leg.

He shoots it like a floater. Yes. Yes, he, he is already comfortable shooting threes off the bounce. Just wait until Wemby is at a point that he's stronger for those postgame turnarounds and pull-ups. Just wait until he becomes an efficient catch and shoot guy off the three. How much more that's going to make him a threat at attacking closeouts, driving the lane, finding teammates with kickout opportunities, as amazing as he is already defensively. He is arguably already the best defender in the league today.

Just wait until the offensive stuff develops. This guy is going to even move. If he's not number one on your list of must watch players today, he soon will be number one on your most, number one on players you get to watch live list. Because the dude is just like, it is unlike anybody we have ever seen in the entire league. No.

You don't understand. And like you got to see it in person to believe how much bigger he is than everyone on the court. You know, he makes Anthony Davis look tiny. I know. It's hilarious. Look, he became the third fastest guy to have 1,000 points, 500 rebounds, and 150 blocks.

The only guys that did it faster than him were Shaq and David Robinson. Wow. Wow. Yeah. Wow. You know how like Yokic and Westbrook, like, like Mr. Triple Double and all that. Like they get him so often like it becomes old news.

That's right. That's going to be five by five for Wemby. He's going to get them so often in his prime. It's like, oh, oh, um, another five by five for Wemby. What's the big deal? Call me when he gets a quadruple double. That's what it's going to be. So he became the 15th player to ever do that, the five by five when he did.

Unbelievable. All right. I have got an unbelievable bar bet for people out there that have not seen this. I think I know I looked recently, so I know some of them, but, you know. No, the last time it happened. Nerkich. Nurchich in 2019. Yep.

And AD did it that season. Before that, it was three years before those happened in 19, and it was Dremont. Here are the other guys that have done five by five. George Johnson, George Gervyn, Dr. J., David Robinson, Derek Coleman, Vlady Divak, Andre Kirillinko, Hakeem Elijah Juan, Marcus Camby, Nicholas Batum, Draymond Green, AD, Nerkich Wembe, and then maybe the most shocking, Jamal Tinsley.

Yep, that's the most shocker one more far. That's incredible. He's got to be, it's only guard, right? I don't know George Johnson, so maybe he was, I don't know. I don't know what George Johnson was. And they didn't start doing, you know, 73, 74 is when they started counting steals and blocks. So, you know, I'm sure Bill Russell would tell us he'd done it 150,000 times, which, well, he might be true. It's kind of like, if you ever watch those old NFL films and Deacon Jones would always be like, I had 200 sacks.

Like, who didn't count them, right? he would always estimate himself yeah he always he always estimated that he had like 180 sacks or whatever it was but yeah

Jamal Tensley shout out to you for the five by five at six foot tall yeah for our younger listeners who are like who's Jamal Tensley he was just like

a average rotation guard you know solid shout out Iowa State yeah solid pacers you know long time point guard for them

in the mid-2000s. It's just rock solid, right? But not five-by-five type of guy. It's cool to see him on the list. Yeah, it was cool to see him on the list. All right, Kevin, it's always a pleasure. Thank you to our executive producer, Jesse Lopez, as always, and I will talk to you on Friday.

Looking forward to. Have a great week, Chris. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. FanDul is offering online sports wagering in Kansas under an agreement with the Kansas Star Casino LLC. Gambling problem. Call 100 gambler. or visit Fandul.com slash RG.

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