The Mismatch - NBA Quarter-Mark Check-In, Plus Reacting to a Wild Night of Games

Episode Date: November 29, 2022

Verno and KOC recap some of the exciting games from last night, including Lakers-Pacers, Magic-Nets, and more (02:05). While discussing the Wizards-Timberwolves game, KOC mentions that Tim Connelly could have other moves in mind to fix the struggling T-Wolves (20:41). In looking at the Thunder-Pelicans game, they discuss two of the league's up-and-coming stars in Shai Gilgeous-Alexander and Zion Williamson (28:54). They also discuss the Celtics' blowout win against the Hornets and the 76ers sneaking by the Hawks. The guys lastly discuss teams that are and aren’t playing up to expectations (46:57). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey everyone, it's Kevin O'Connor, aka Kevin O'Bomber, aka Kevin O'Connor. Wait a minute, you're not Chris Vernon. No, Kevin, sadly, I'm not as cherubic or as raspy as Verno, but it is I, Jay Kyle, man. And folks, basketball has been and continues to be so very good. That's exactly why Kyle and I are hosting a brand new basketball show on a brand new podcast feed, the ringers NBA draft show. We're going to have you covered every week as we go in-depth and deep dive in hopes of answering an ever-important question in the NBA. Who's got next?

Whether it's an international phenom like Victor Wynbenyama or the G-League Scoot Henderson. Or stars from Overtime Elite like A. Men Thompson, as well as a full-blown swarm of talented prospects from the promising 2023 NBA draft class. For sure, Kyle. And we're also going to get into players from the college ranks because this is a loaded class. for us to discuss prospects rising and falling, and we're going to revisit and redraft recent draft classes and get into how the league's evolution could help inform what's valuable in a prospect of the future.

This is a podcast for a fan of every team, whether you're losing and have high draft lottery odds or you're looking for sleepers later in the draft. We're going to be covering everything in the months to come, so please make sure you follow and subscribe to the Ringer NBA Draft Show. And hit us with those five-star ratings. Welcome to the Miss Manor.

I'm Chris Vernon and joining me as he does every Tuesday from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, aka Kevin Obama, Kevin O'Concer, Kevin O'Climber, Kevin O'Climber, Kevin O'Conflict, Kevin O Candyland, Kevin O'Conflian, Kevin O. Burnow! It's Tuesday. How are you doing, man? What's up? I'm doing great, and it just so happened that last night, Monday night, we had a ton of games that were going on and were able to bounce from channel to channel. A lot of them came down to the wire, but there was some interesting stuff that took place, so we'll jump off with that. I guess the first is Andrew Nemhard.

Ooh, that was wild. The killer hits a three-pointer to push the Pacers over the Lakers after being down 17 in the fourth quarter. This Pacers team, great fast by Halliburton. He finds Nemhart, who's a rookie, And he knocked out a three for them to get the win.

And you know the first thing I did, I went to the Kevin O'Connor ringer draft guy. And I said, because I'm always fascinated by this stuff. I'm like, this NAMR guy, this guy was on good teams at Gonzaga. This guy was probably overshadowed, certainly overshadowed by Chad Holmgren and Drew Timmy and that group there. didn't have crazy stats. And then I go and I find them on the draft guide and the comp is Malcolm Brogden. And I thought, isn't this perfect?

Like Malcolm Brogden, who ended up winning that rookie of the year, which is an odd rookie of the year because MB only played X number of games. But Brogden was that guy that was passed by because he was a senior, not unlike Nemhart, totally solid at basketball like Nemhart. Now, Nemhart would be well served to have anything like a career like Brogden has had. But I did find that super interesting because the ageist thing got him to,

and here we are watching to make a big play. And he's been a contributor and a starter, for goodness sakes, for easily one of the biggest surprises in the entire NBA. Absolutely. I mean, you know, in that draft guide profile, I had him ranked 33. He goes 31st in the drafts. You know, like you said, it's an ages thing, right? You know, these older guards, these older players tend to drop to the second round

in favor of higher upside players. But, you know, the one-liner scatter report there says, mistake-free point guard who could come in right away and contribute. But, you know, you still don't expect him to be as good as he's been. I mean, Carlisle had that comment after the game about how good he's been defensively. He was really harassing LeBron in some of their matchups all game, and that's as a 6-foot-2, 6-3 guard. I mean, Nemhard has just been the rock, solid backup behind Halliburton

and able to play with those guys, with Buddy Heald, with Benedict Mathron, who's arguably the rookie of the year so far, him or Apollo Bancaro. Like, the Pacers have nailed some of those picks and trades and big decisions that they've made, Because that Halliburton man, 40 assist to zero turnovers in his last three games, leading the NBA and assists. Talking about like mistake free, right? Like Halliburton does not make mistakes out there.

And that task he made to Nemhard to win the game, dude. Like when he, I was watching the game live, when he made it, I didn't think there would be enough time for the receiving, you know, player to release the ball. And Nemhard got it off with 0.4 left on the clock because Hallel Albertton made that pass with velocity. Like you watch it back, it was a fastball, and it was a bullseye. Nemhard didn't even need to move, dip the ball or anything to get the shot off cleanly. It was right in the shot pocket.

And in that clutch moment, with his offhand, whoa, whoa. I thought it just summed up everything Halliburton's been this year. That's an absolute point God. Yeah, two things on that. First, not only is he leading the NBA and assist, he's leading. leading it by two full assists a game. Not even close. Not even close.

He's over 11. Trey's at 9. Trey Young is second on that list. Yokic's third at 8.8. But he is averaging over 11 assists a game. The other thing is... What's he after turnovers? He's under three, right?

It's like 11 assists to like 2.5 turnovers. Something like that? Wild. Very, very difficult to be that good on a regular basis, even through a quarter of the season. The other thing is I had to laugh at your, the clip that you put up was the proper clip, right? Which is you were showing, you put this up on Twitter, the past, and you stole the virtues of the past, and then this shot by Nemhard for them to win this game.

Right before your clip starts is Miles Turner, who publicly lobbied to become a Los Angeles Laker, trying to win the game with a pull-up three from the top of the key that bricks so hard that that's how Halliburton gets the ball in the first place. I thought that was so funny. I'm like, of all the things, this guy, the guy that went on Woj's podcast to publicly lobby to become a Laker, he's trying to have his moment. Now, I'm not saying that Miles Turner should never shoot threes. But given the circumstances, I would have liked a better shot than that if I'm the Pacers.

It ended up working out and Nemhard saved the day. To be fair, Turner's been crushing. Like, he's been so good. Yeah, he has been great this year. I just thought that was really funny. I wonder if they kind of, you know. He was like, I got this. Well, they probably want, maybe they wanted him to have that moment, too, you know.

So then the Lakers will give up both first round picks and something? We can't beat him. We'll go get him. Anything else from the Laker game? I just can't believe they actually blew that lead. I mean, 17 points. The offense fell apart, you know, some really unwarranted shots by LeBron and Russ down the stretch. Only two field goal attempts for Anthony Davis in that fourth quarter.

And, I mean, you can distribute blame to LeBron. You can distribute it to Russ and Darbinham a little bit for not forcing the ball to their center. but I think for the Lakers here, they get such a top upcoming schedule here. They're 7 and 12 now. They got Portland, Milwaukee, Washington, Cleveland, Toronto, Philly, then Detroit, Boston, Denver, Washington, Phoenix, Sack, Charlotte, Dallas. Like, there's a lot of tough games coming up for the Lakers here.

Blowing that lead, it's just one of 82, but just feels like one of those games that they'll look back at, especially given the Miles Turner, Buddy Heald's storyline. that's been a thing all week in LA. It just feels like one of those games that kind of shows this team is fraudulent. Yeah, it's a team. They're screwing around and they have no room to screw around. Yeah.

I mean, you only blow a 17-point lead at home to the Pacers by screwing around, not taking it seriously and thinking we could turn it up when we need to. That other team is playing it out, and you're not. And so you're not treasuring the basketball. You're not making sure you take good shots. focused on defense. That's the, that's the anatomy of blowing a lead like that. And especially on the defense event, just a wild lack of focus. Because all you need to get is a couple stops. That's it. And you win the game. But that's what would worry me is that the team

screwing around with very little room to screw around. The record already stinks. And the West is clogged up with good teams. There's only a few. that are not teams that could catch you on a given night. And you got to be able to, I know Indiana's got a good record this year, but you at minimum, you got to be able to take care of the Indiana's of the world if you're going to be a team to be taken seriously and a team that's not going to have to play its way into the playoffs.

I wonder how much that groin injury is still bothering in LeBron. I mean, I know he had two good games against the Spurs after coming back. And he got, like, he had 39. He looked great. But he's never looked slower, less explosive. I think he's one of those that's going to be every once in a while. It's just not going to be an every night thing. Other games that went on last night, the Sons keep on rocking.

While we have these two outstanding teams in the Eastern Conference in Boston and Milwaukee, now after, as we get to the quarter mark of the season, the Sons are at the top of the Western Conference, where they have been in recent years. And Devin Booker has been fantastic, and they did not get to light the beam in Sacramento last night. I mean, and they're doing this without a lot of the parts that have made them what they are,

i.e. Chris Paul, I.e. Cam Johnson, I.e. J. Crowder, who was expected to be on this roster this year, and it's just basically an empty roster spot. and they just keep on trucking. And so how are they doing this? The easy answer is David Booker. I mean, he's playing a better basketball than he ever has in his life.

I know, you know, prior to Chris Paul, the talk was he, is he a good stats, bad team player? I mean, he's been doing this for years now, but I think Booker, the way he's developed over the years, he's a more refined player, a more efficient player, more dynamic player. He's not shooting his highest three-point shooting percentage right now, but he's just a much more diverse

offensive force. He's a better playmaker. He's hustling on defense. That was the pre-CP3 conversation. Well, he doesn't play any defense. He doesn't get stops. Booker is a tone setter now on this team and he has support. Like, Mikkel

Bridges, better. DeAndre Aten, better. They have guys like a Torrey Craig who were stepping up in place up Cam Johnson and your guy Jay Crowder, you know, posted highlights on Instagram away from the team. So I think for Phoenix here, it's really a big group effort, but more than anything else, though, it's a testament to the greatness of Devin Booker with what he's capable of as an individual

player on any particular night, 44 points last night, getting whatever the hell he wanted on the court. He might not win MVP. He probably won't compare to some of the other big number guys. Janus is number one right now for me. It's early. But Booker right in there in the all-N-BBA conversation is one of the best players in the league so far this season. I don't think he gets talked about enough when it comes to why are the sun so good without Chris Paul, Cam Johnson? And Jay Crowder, it's because

of David Booker, simple as that. Well, and part of it is those other two that you mentioned. Bridges and Aiton, that triumphant together. If you've got those three guys, you can fill in the blanks on the other two. You just got, you know, because Bridges has proven

many nights to be more than just a solid role player. he's a guy that can get you bucket, you know, and obviously shut down, he could wreck your offense on some given night with his defensive ability and just his length. Yeah, I don't think it's a demarred on Sacramento. Sacramento's not to that point yet

where they're beating the Phoenixes of the world, even though they played Phoenix pretty well last year during the season. But very entertaining game for sure. Those are two great offensive teams, both in the top five in offense at the quartermark of the season. Kings never gave up. No. You know, like down the structure of that game, they're down five, push back, down six, push back. I mean, like that team is, they lose the game, but like they have some real, real grit on their team.

The first game I had on last night was that Brooklyn Orlando game because, oh my God, not only was Kevin Durant unbelievable on one end, never in my life. that I think I'd be watching a KD. Bull, Bull shootout, but that's what I got involved in. At one point, Bo Ball took it, crossed over,

shot this, like, runner that went in, and Iron Eagle was like, bowl, bowl, I don't know what that was, but it went in. And he's in his bag. He's pulling up like Steph Curry,

Bull, who after the game, by the way, you're going to love this. After the game, have you seen the Paolo Ben-Caro quote? No. Quote, everyone talked about this Victor dude from France. I'm not trying to compare them. But Bull 7-2 shoots threes, brings it up the court, makes passes, and blocks shots. I feel like people kind of forgot about him. But Bull's a freak of nature.

that was Paolo who nice to see Paolo back in the lineup and being Paulo during that game but anyways you know the Nets needed every single bit of Kevin Durant's offensive

brilliance to knock off the magic who just kept on coming even though they're depleted team right now and yeah Durant was great but I think it does say something when they need to

hated every bit of that to knock off the magic. And on the other hand, you have Simmons. He got hurt. He's out of that game last night. And so we'll have to wait and see on that one. What did you make of the Bull Bull versus Kevin Durant show? That is not something I expected that we'd be talking about on the mismatch this year.

It's glorious. I don't know what other way to say it. I mean, Katie, like what else is there to say that we haven't said in our years doing the show. He's magnificent. He's a mid-range maestro. It's amazing to watch Katie do his thing. And he did it last night. He said it after the game. How do you know you're going to be on one when I wake up? Right. Okay. But Bo Bo, Bo on the other hand, I mean, Paulo's right to an extent. I mean, I think what separates Wenbenyama from Boa Bole is the fact that like Victor Wenbenyama is a more physically imposing force

an interior guy, an elite defensive prospect, highly versatile, computer brain potentially on that end. Bowl Bowl is not like a defensive stopper, right? But at 7-2 with the handle and the fluidity that Bobo has, yeah, he's unique. He is.

We haven't seen many guys with his size of his style of scoring. He's like, you know, Bulbul's like, he plays like a 6-foot-6 wing, right? Like kind of shifty, fluid, right? Victor Weniama is a true 7-4 guy with a

guard wing like skill set. I think that's a very subtle difference there, but that doesn't change the fact that Boobo is very unique and the stuff he does is just, you remember you saw me post, I think it was like a week into the season, the distracted boyfriend meme with me looking away from

Obama towards Bowl Bowl. Yes. I mean, that's the way I feel. bomb against the DMP last night because of back spasms. But I had my eyes all on Bull Bowl last night. Bo Bo. It is, he is one of the most entertaining things going in the NBA for sure. Yeah, he really is.

It's crazy. I'm flipping back and forth. You got this 7 foot two guy pull it up, knocking down threes on one channel. I flip over to the other channel and there's a 7 foot three guy knocking down threes as Porzengis is lighting the Minnesota. Timberwolves on fire. And that Kuzma has been great. Porzengis had like as good a first half as there's been in the NBA this year.

It felt like the T. Wolves came out of halftime, loaded up, ready to go, played inspired, got on that big run to start the third quarter to make a close game. And then it just petered out and they ended up getting run out by. by the Washington Wizards and all the while Towns goes down, can't put any pressure on his leg, suffers a calf injury

in the middle of the game, which is probably the best case scenario given how it looked when he first went down. But that kind of, that whole Towns thing kind of took away from the fact that this team is downright bad

defensively. And it's a team that Mortgage its entire future to get what they thought was the best defensive player that they could possibly attain in Rudy Gobert. But we're a quarter of the way through the season, and it just hasn't worked. I know they had that short little win streak, but if you go back and look at that win streak, I mean, they're playing a lot of depleted teams. meant nothing. Now, they're playing depleted teams when they were winning those. games. And now you saw them blow that Charlotte game and then just recently we watched them against that Wizards team last night. And so it's going to be interesting to see if they have to

play for some amount of time without towns. But still seems to me like a lot of guys unhappy with their plight. Edwards isn't particularly happy with his plate. I'm sure Gobert's not happy with his plate. Towns for sure he's getting regularly frustrated. But, before his his, uh, before his, uh,

Caff thing last night. And so, I don't know. And the Wizards are better than I thought they were going to be, for sure. Yeah. It kind of been one of the surprises,

even at five hundred. It's because Kuzma's way better than Jay Crowder, right? I don't, I mean, look, when it gets to the playoffs,

we can discuss. Yeah. Well, we'll see. But I mean, so, like, that game last night,

with Minnesota, there's something wrong. I mean, like, there's something fundamentally wrong. I think with the defense, of communication. I think it was one of the first buckets KP scored.

It was a couple, maybe a minute into the game, where the Wizards ran a double high screen with Porzingis and Kuzma setting a screen. And both Gobert and towns followed the guard curling towards the middle of the floor and left both Kuzma and Porzingis open behind the arc. There's just like a really weird, strange defensive coverage of how both Biggs did what they kind of like intuitively feel like they should do. And then like Kuzma's open.

Both of them close out towards Kuzma. And then Porzingis is open for the swing. And Gober is like has to be there late after closing out to Kuzma. Usually you X out in that situation. One guy closes out to Kuzma and the other guy goes to Porzini. They both went towards Kuzma. I think a lot of this is due to towns needing to adapt

to playing the wing. more so, and like, of course, I'm not blaming Rudy, like that's what you'll say, but more so than Gobert, but Gobert is supposed to be the low man. There's been so many times this season where he's pointing out defensive coverages in transition where he's getting the low guy, but then somebody else isn't picking up the wing. They're taking the low position instead, and whether that's Gobert's fault, Finch's fault, Towns's fault, it's everybody's fault.

But there's just something fundamentally wrong with the build of this team with two bigs, with what they intended to do and thought they could do versus what they've been able to do. I mean, I... Man, who could have seen it coming? Well, I mean, listen, like, part of me wonders,

is Tim Conley, you know, seems like a very good general manager. He's made great decisions over the years. I wonder if there's any part of him that made this deal knowing that it might not work out with the intentions of flipping Carl Anthony Towns elsewhere.

It's just been a thought on my mind because everybody knew there was a chance it wouldn't work, right? Like we all agreed. I like the deal because I like Rudy Gobert. I like what he brings defensively. I like what he can be offensively when he's on high pick and roll. He has less blocks than

Walker Kessler. Yeah. But to the point though, Chris, I wonder if Tim Conley in that front office made the deal with any thought in the back of their mind that I know this might not work, but we want to move on from towns anyway. We can't win a championship with that guy.

I wonder if that was the mindset. No way. Oh, wait. Wait, hold on. Can't win a championship with that guy so you go get the guy that's been ousted in every playoffs? What the hell? Yeah, but it's,

but can we at least agree it wasn't all Rudy Gober's fault in Utah? No, it wasn't all of his fault. There was no wing defense on those teams. He's also a terrible pairing with Edwards. He just is. It was always going to be. Yeah, but why? Edward, why? Because the best thing you can have when you've got somebody like Edwards is guys that can space the floor.

That's the best thing you can have. He is unguardable, unguardable. He's too big, he's too strong, he's too fast. So you want them to be like the Houston Rockets with Hardin, with, you know, five out spacing, ISO. I don't think you always have to be five out. I don't think you always have to be five out. But. So you think the wolves could have won a championship with Edwards and Kat as their two best players? I don't know. I don't know if they could have won a championship. Look, Edwards is nowhere near being that guy yet. But again, you tried to speed this up.

How many times are we talked about it? It takes time for all of these guys. And so you take the guy and then you build out. I would look at it and I would have decided my best player, my future of my franchise is Anthony Edwards. And I am going to make every decision from Kiron out based upon how these players will fit to the prism of Anthony Edwards and what he's going to be in two to three to four years. Because that's when you're ready. That's when you're ready. Edwards is a ready.

He's still immature. He can't even play back to backs without him bad. He can't even throw a lot. No. He stands in the corner with his hands on his hips. Like people are posting this, you know, like, the view. videos every other night of them coming out of a timeout and him just, he might as well be just sitting down.

Yeah, but that's on him. In the corner. I know, that's on him. Again, you got to grow up. I'm with it. I understand, Kevin, but what I'm saying is that guy is not ready to be the best player on a great team yet. He will be, but they tried to speed it all up.

Didn't it feel like he could have been during the playoffs last year, though? He took a major leap in that series. He was unbelievable. He was great. So I can understand them trying to accelerate things because you're like, okay, we're investing in a rising star young player and giving him the best lob threat, the best interior defensive player in the league as a teammate. I mean, to me, it's about Kat and Edwards need to grow.

Edwards needs to grow as a playmaker. He needs to become more consistent on defense, takes him accountability. Cat, like you have to learn how to adapt and play more on the wing and make smart, focused decisions on defense and learn to play your role now that you have Rudy Gobert protecting the backline. In theory, in theory, at a minimum,

it should work better than it has. At a minimum, it should work better than it has. I'm not saying like this could be a title team, but it should be better than what it's been. You mean giving up 150 points to the friggin' wizard? Yeah, I think it should be better than that. Yeah, no doubt. Strange decision by Finch to put Gobert on poor.

to start the game. I thought you would put Gopair on a crappy wing wing, you know, wing shooter, have him closer to the basket and then have cat on Porzingus. But anyway, that's a different story. And then they ended up in the, when they came out in the third quarter, they started Kyle Anderson to put him on Porzengis. And that was the best anybody had done on him. Which is what I, you know, I thought it would have been cat on Porzengis,

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In Wyoming, call 1-800-5-22-470-70. And in West Virginia, visit 1800 gambler.net. Also was flipping around and watched the Pelicans Thunder last night. That one came down to the very end of the game. Thunder with this extraordinary SGA season going on. they were in it until the very end of that game. You saw Zion, you know, trying to take over at the end of the game, missing some shots, made a few down the stretch.

But, I mean, he was kind of the guy, especially with No Ingram, McCallum not there. So it was the Zion show. And then Oklahoma City had a chance there at the end of the game. and it came down to SGA versus Herb Jones. I thought that was a horrendous call. The block charge. Obviously, you had one ref call it a block,

one ref call it a charge. And Daggnault, right? That's how you say it. The Coach of the Thunder. I mean, he's already used his challenge. So he didn't have a challenge. And that's how the game basically ends. SGA's flying towards a goal.

I thought that was a very, very, very questionable charge. But it speaks to, like, Herb Jones is there making everything difficult, as he usually does. Ended up being a very good game. I kind of, I came away. That Thunder team, let me tell you something. The record's not that great, though nobody really expected all that much. But, man, when you watch them, they make.

you win. That's the best thing I could say about them, right? I mean, Poku's an intimidating player, Chris. Stop it. Did you see that jump ball at the end of the game? You saw SGA go in there. I mean, Poku would have been the guy on the jump ball. But he was like touching it.

Like my daughter touching the lizard when they say, do you want to touch the lizard at the zoo? Like, you know, you're kind of worried to touch it. it's what like it's a it's like it's like Cam Newton looking at a fumble

in the Super Bowl oh God geez that that's insulting that's what folks who look like oh my God it's like

but I'll say that look the thunder they make you win they make you make the play to win to win the game against them and if you're

if you're gonna be half step and they're gonna they're gonna beat you on a given night and obviously SGA this season. Where to the quartermark? He has been otherworldly.

He's third in the NBA in scoring behind only Luca and Curry. That's how good that kid's been this year. And that's how great Herb Jones had to be to slow him down. I mean, Herb Jones played probably better defense against SGA than anybody else has so far this season.

Sliding around laterally. We're already going to forget last weekend's Dylan Brooks. That's why it's a problem. You're already? You're already going to act like it didn't happen? Probably. Probably. Maybe.

After the guy was averaging 40 a game, up there. Yeah. One of the better defensive performances against. I mean, Herb was amazing down the stretch. He bothered every shot. He was in his airspace, constantly mirroring all his little weird, herky jerky side-to-side movements. It was, it was a, he helped win him the game.

And I think with Herb Jones, he's well on his way to becoming an all-defense a player. And, you know, I know a couple weeks back after I posted my quote-unquote Pelicans love letter, they've been pretty kick-ass since they're one of three teams with a top 10 offensive and defensive rating in the league. Zion, now that he has his legs underneath them, has been better, more competitive on defense after his... Well, I tell you, if he ever gets in shape, he's still not in shape.

You watch him. Imagine Prime Zion. Like Zion with LeBron James, like $1 million into his body every year. Imagine that investment. Every time you watch him in these games, he runs like it's the, he constantly runs. Like it's the last 20 yards of like a marathon, like a race, like a very long race. Like the last 20 yards before the finish line where you're just kind of getting there. That's what it looks like he's running.

I never see him like sprinting. He's always running at this very deliberate, wobbly pace. And I thought to myself, as I was watching it last time, I'm like, man, I don't know what that weight thing is that they put in his contract. Man, if they would have made it a little bit more, there's going to come a time where the kid dedicates himself to, you know, getting his body in the best possible. shape it can be it. I hope. I mean, he's already got in the bag without that. But if he does,

he's already at his size right now, unbelievable. If that guy ever gets in like the best shape of his life, he would be the best player in the NBA. I believe it. I really do. Because he's already like too much to deal with. He puts that shoulder down and guys just go flying. You know, And he's got to add some things. You know, you can kind of sit on his left hand and make him, like, I just watched him in person last week against Memphis, and they knew exactly what he wanted to do. Going left.

Every time he got the ball. And so they made him play a different way than what he wants to play. And that's part of just getting the reps and playing a lot. But he's still, I mean, every once in a while, he just decides. I'm getting to the basket, and good luck. Good luck. I mean, because he has such a unique combination of power, right? Also, his height, all that, you know, weight and muscle and strength in like a six-foot-six frame.

And speed, burst, agility, vertical explosive ability as well. Like, it's just such an unbelievable combination of skills that makes them hard to stop even doing what you know he's going to do going left. It doesn't make a difference, even when you do game plan for him. You can slow him down a little bit, but you're not going to slow him down entirely. Also, the other part with him is what's going to happen once he starts getting like a superstar whistle? You know, with all his hard drives to the basket, he only gets to the line once last night. Not that I'm saying he should have got, you know, hardened treatment, 10 free throws or whatever. But I think he gets one of the worst whistles in basketball because you can't officiate him like Shaq, you know?

Right. Right. That's what it's like. It's like Janus, right? Because it doesn't appear to be phasing him. Exactly. He is getting hit, but it makes no difference. Exactly. Because he still gets the shot up. Most guys, they hit fouled and it impedes the progress.

But he just plows through. It's shack-esque-esque. It really is. Or you saw Janus. What was that? Last week when Embeddied body checked him, Embedd ends up on the ground, and Yonis is just like laying the ball up. You're like, what is going on? He's got me of metal.

You know, I mean, and that was, the guy got, it was a flagrant two, they called, right? On Embed in that game last week? I believe so, yeah. Yeah, a flagrant too for like basically lowering his shoulder. Oh, it was. Yeah, just a flagrant one. Flagrant one. Oh, it was?

Okay. Loweres his shoulder in the Janus. He somehow ends up on the ground and Janus like powers through his. mammoth of a man dropping his shoulder into it. Yeah. He's crazy. Yonah's kind of like, you know,

there was like a pause in his movement, but he still kept moving forward. And then Bid ended up on the ground. Yeah. Figure that out. He got trod. Yeah. Those guys, how are you supposed to,

how are he supposed to officiate that? You know? A couple other things that happened last night. Looked like we had a chance at seeing a team score like maybe 150. or 160 points if they wanted to, and that being the Boston Celtics, against Charlotte. And Kevin, the numbers that the Celtics are putting up so far are downright freaky. You know, you mentioned New Orleans earlier.

The offensive efficiency, as we look at the quarter mark of the season, offensive efficiency in the league. Number five is New Orleans, who you had mentioned. number four is Sacramento three is Phoenix two is Denver okay all those teams are in the

113s so it's 113 for New Orleans all the way up to 113.9 for Denver and then you have Boston who is 119.3 so far this year

and they are number one in point they are number one in three-pointers made. They are number one in three-point percentage. They're shooting, not only do they take the most and make the most, they shoot the highest percentage of them. They're shooting 40% as a team from three, and they are number one in free throw percentage at 85. So when they drive and you foul them,

they're the best at making the free throws too. And it all adds up to, again, we'll see how it all plays out over the last 60 games, but through the first 20, this would be the greatest offensive team in the history of basketball. By a wide margin, too. I mean, like a lot of people were posting the numbers on Twitter yesterday. With their offensive rating, it's 9.5 points better than the league average in the season. So it's the highest relative efficiency and recorded history compared to other offensive ratings in their particular years. it's the highest individual offensive rating number ever.

And I mean, look, maybe they don't sustain this particular number. But the way the offense is clicking, the way Tatum has grown, getting to the basket, finishing, you know, much better around the rim, drawing more files, the depth they have and the amount of options that they have with different guys that they can play through, whether it's Horford at the post, whether it's a Jalen or Brown pick and roll or isolation, or Marcus Smart running the show, or Malcolm Brock. kicking out to Luke Cornyett off the bench, right?

The Sam Houser, they just have so many weapons and ways that they can beat you and attack and really pick on your weaknesses as a defense to create good offensive opportunities in their defense. Been better lately. Robert Williams coming back sometime soon. That should only get better. More stops leading to even more transition opportunities. I think the Celtics could get even better, even if their offensive rating ends up

dipping from this historic level, they as an overall team are not yet at their peak. Yeah, and by the way, Blake Griffin and Grant Williams and Derek White started last night in the absence of Jaylor Brown, alongside Marcus Smart and Jason Tatum, and did you ever think we would come on the mismatch

and talk about Marcus Smart's 15-assist game? He had 15 assists last night. It's been pretty cool to see him get empowered as a point guard. Wow. It's been really cool. I mean, I remember him coming out of Oklahoma State when like him as a young player with Boston where he'd be moving too fast. And it's like he would, he had an idea of what he wanted to do, but he wasn't slowing down. And I don't know, it's just been cool to see Marcus Smart's progress over his almost 10 years in the NBA now becoming a real reliable point guard who has always done a good job of limiting turnovers. But now he's really like kind of tempered his shooting. He's not taking his, many, you know, shots that infuriate Celtics fans, right? And I mean, he's just found a perfect balance for himself on offense. Ever since he's really been empowered to run the show.

It's been cool to see. Well, and you look at these assist numbers over the last 10 games. 12, 11, 4. He didn't play as many minutes in that game. 10, 8, 8, 9, 5, 7, 15. And, of course, that was a career high last night with the 15. Yeah, and all the while, and Marcus Smart is shooting 44% from the field and 35% from 3. I mean, when the Marcus Smart's are knocking down, you know, they're not dragging down your percentage.

I mean, his highest was 36% from 3, and that was in the 18th season. He's usually been about a 33-34. So, I mean, yeah, he's at 35.1. And as I said, there is a team. They're shooting 40% from three. I mean, that is ludicrous. It's a ludicrous. It's to take the most and make the most

and make them at the highest percentage. I mean, that's how you get this kind of freaky offense that they've got going on so far. All other things. The only other one that we didn't mention that we wanted to from last night was the Sixers beating the Hawks. And the Hawks, 0 and 3?

Since the Trey head tap? Sixers are playing really well, man, without some of their guys. Shake Milton. He's been better. Better than could have expected. I mean, I remember at the beginning of the season, we talked about how, like,

even Shake Milton, you know, he won't be in their rotation after, you know, being a fixture in the rotation last year. But he came back a better player. More efficient from three, getting where he wants on the floor. Looks great in the pick and roll with Joel Lombie. Like their chemistry,

their years together playing is really starting to show. I wonder what Doc Rivers is going to do with that rotation once Harden and Max your bat because Milton's play to me looks sustainable. He looks very good. Do you have him coming off the bench every single night? Maybe you do at this point. So he's been playing almost, he's been playing over 35 minutes every single night. That first game that he played 38 minutes, which was November 20th.

So it was a Minnesota game, okay? He had 27 in that game. Next game, 16, next game, 22. These are the last four games. 22, 24, 29, 21. And that's to go along with rebounds and assists. I mean, he is at five rebounds, seven assists, five rebounds, seven assists, nine rebounds, ten assists, seven rebounds nine assists, six rebounds five assists. I mean, he's doing everything. You always kind of figured Jake Milton's the kind of guy to come off, get you some buckets, right? So we figured he's been given this opportunity and has just absolutely made the most of it. Does this make hard and expendable? In your dreams, Chris.

Who needs Hardin when you got Shake? But yeah, Shake Milton and my guy at the Anthony Melton, the Anthony Belton getting, he was not as good last night, but had been on a run there where he was 19, 22, 20. He was giving them really good production on regular way. So they've kind of patched it together. And the most hilarious is, of course, P.J. Tucker, who just does not take shots. I don't think we've ever seen a player like this unless you want to go to another PJ Tucker season.

A guy that plays, the guy that plays that amount of minutes that just does not shoot the basketball, ever. in fact in the last well he has not taken a shot in the last two games and the game before that he took three and most of these are like

one for one or one for two or zero for zero so far this year he is going to shatter the all-time usage rate he's going to shatter it yeah watch out Alan Iverson

There's no way. No, no, no, no. I'm saying in the opposite direction. Yeah, I know, I know. I was joking. I'm saying in the opposite direction, he is going to, no one's going to be able to sniff this ever.

No one has ever played 25, 30-something minutes on a regular basis and never shoots the ball. That it works. I guess it works. Well, stat news tweeted out last night after the game, how in the last eight games, PJ Tucker has one made basket, but he's a plus 48s, you know, more rebounds, more assists, more steals than points.

He's such a funky player. He really is. He really is. I can't imagine that you're going to be able to play minutes and have a lower usage than him. And to think it, he's on a winning team. He's on a winning team. So he lets the other guys shoot. We are through the quarter way.

of the season, as I mentioned. So those offensive efficiency numbers that we talked about earlier, Boston, Denver, Phoenix, Sacramento, New Orleans. No real surprises there of the top five. I wouldn't say, I guess Sacramento, you know, that they're in the top five

within 20 games of the new roster, new coach thing. You know, it is not taken very long. They're dynamite offensive team, for sure. defensive efficiency, Bucks, Clippers, Philly, Cleveland, New Orleans. New Orleans is surprising.

It is. I mean, I mean, yeah, right? Yeah. I mean, we talked about it, you know, weeks back after that love letter. Yeah. With how much they needed to grow, they've grown. They've gotten much better.

And I think for New Orleans, maybe you could have expected them to be in the top half of the league, but top five, impressive. I think the Clippers once a, surprises me, just them being second in the NBA in defense. I feel like nothing surprises me with that team. Like they're just such a weird.

I mean that because they did well last year without, without Kwai Leonard, it's a testament to Ty Lu and I think more than anything else. We saw Zubats get his 30 point 29 rebound game the other night. So close. He's been spectacular defensively all year. I mean, he's an all defensive candidate. He's been excellent in drop coverages for them.

A great rim and forward. obviously a great rebounder too, communicating constantly, holding down, you know, really being an enforcer inside. I think with Zubots, he hasn't gotten enough love this year for the way he's developed as a player

and what he's turned himself into, especially on defense. And they got wings on wings on wings. And so they can keep throwing them at you. You know, they can typically, they've got guys that can guard your wings. They also can put some of their big wings on guards. And if they've got Zubats, you know,

playing at a high level can certainly turn them into something. Scores, top five scores through the quarterway mark, Luca Curry, SGA, Janice Tatum, SGA, I think the only surprise there. I mean, he said 31 points per game.

And while we all thought very highly of Shaggilders-Alexander, the fact that he is vaulted amongst that group, the surefire Hall of Fame level players Luca Curry Janice and Tatum

and he's right in the middle of that mix Embed where's Embed Embed he's not in the top five He's not he's at thirty-two points per game What list are you looking at? You got like Is he not playing enough games?

I don't know I don't know what minute qualifiers you got on whatever standings you're looking at but he's he's played 13 games That should be enough Okay yeah yeah okay Yeah he's 32 Okay so he's second Yeah

I mean it still puts Gilz-Ox-Xand at four. Yeah, it's amazing. Yeah. And we still got seven guys averaging 30 plus. Katie at 30, Tatum at 30.8. It's remarkable. Yeah, this has been a unbelievable season so far for scoring.

Top five teams against the spread. This is not going to surprise you, I don't think. Because I think it speaks to not only have they surprised us, but also surprised Vegas, obviously. Portland? Yep. Indiana. Sacramento, and then the Bucks and the Celtics.

So the two best teams. Yeah, right? That are even covering numbers. But those other three, Portland, Indiana, and Sacramento have been better than we expected them to be, better than the general consensus. Expect them to be. I think you're going to find it fascinating. The worst teams against the spread to the quarterway mark of the season, Atlanta, the last. Lakers, the heat, the T-Wolves, and then by a wide margin, the worst, 4, 14, and 1 against the spread for the Dallas Mavericks.

Wow. How about that? Wow. So I hope you don't have Mavs betters out there because this has been a bloodbath. 4.14 and 1. So the expectation of what they were going to pull off versus what they have, at least Vegas-wise. They're 4-14 and 1 against the spread. And then, you know, Minnesota, Miami, the Lakers, Atlanta, I think all of us thought they'd be better than they'd fit.

You know, even if you were down on some of these teams, they have probably been a little worse than what you would have expected through the first 20 games in season. But, you know, I always try to remind myself, you don't want to make too much of the first 20 games of the year. You just don't. Because these things change. What happened last year? Boston was in the toilet. They stunk.

That's right. And then they made the NBA finals. Dallas started the year last year. Luca was fat, overweight. You know, he didn't look like he looks sluggish. And then he ends up leading a team to the West finals. It closes the year unbelievably. I've talked about this before.

I don't know if I've ever been more down walking out of an arena than last year the Atlanta Hawks came to Memphis and absolutely destroyed the Grizzlies. I mean probably 30 points, something like that. And dropped the Grizzlies to 9 and 10, I believe, all the while John Morant was carried by two people. off the court. It was a sure fire. Oh my God. This guy just blew out his ACL. It's already been this massively disappointing first 20 games of the season.

And then they went on the run of all runs. I think they won like 21 of their next like 25 games. It was something crazy like that. They ended up with the two seed and won 56 games last year. You know, and if you would have asked me at the 20, game mark of the season. So I always try to keep that in mind. They were the worst defensive team in the league. And then they became the number one defensive team in the league. Like these things over the course of 82 games can change drastically. And you've seen a lot of teams that have not

been healthy so far. You've had some teams benefit greatly from extreme health so far. So who's the team we're too high on or too low on right now that could turn around? Well, you're already see in Utah, you know, they're... Yeah, but it's not like we had belief in them. No, no, no, but they flew up. But I'm saying this, this just speaks to the difference between the first 10 and the first

20 games. Yeah. Because they're, they won three of their last 10. And so now it's like, okay. They get some catching up to do. I mean, to the top of the lottery standings. Yeah, right. I guess they do. San Antonio's doing a damn good job. I think Miami will end up getting up there. You do? You still really have belief in them.

Despite how Lowry looks, You still believe in Miami? Yeah, I think that with Butler and Hero and out of bio, I mean, they still got, he's still a better team than several teams that are ahead of them, I think, so far. So I think they'll end up moving up the standings. Are you sure? You said, yeah, I'm just curious.

You said, I think. Like, are you, are you sure that they're even better than, like, Indiana or Toronto? Yes. Are you sure? Better than Toronto? Over the course of the next 60 games? Better than Toronto, for sure. Do I think that they're going to be better

than at least three teams ahead of them? Yes. Indiana, Toronto, and Washington, you think? How about Atlanta? Brooklyn? Oh, it's as good as it. Yeah. It's just as good as Atlanta?

Do you think they end up with the top six seed? Right now, they're only a game and a half back. It's not like it's a massive separation behind a six seed. Yes, I think. they, yes. I don't know if you noticed, Bam out of bios had 70 points in the last two games.

Bam has been really good. I love to see it. You know what I mean? And so, I mean, obviously, they got to have their guys healthy, but it's a veteran team. And I think over the course of the season,

this stuff is going to flush yourself out. You know who else I think is going to be better than they have been so far? I do think the Knicks will be. The Knicks. I think they're still getting used to it. I do. I think they're still getting used to the whole Brunson thing, and I think it takes time. But I think that they are going to, I think they're going to be better than what they've been so far. That's what I'll say.

Well, you saw R.J. have a good night against Memphis. It's had a lot of bad nights, man. No, I did not. I don't even care about R.J. Brunson was out of this world. Out of this world. He scored 16 points in the fourth quarter. He was unbelievable. Yeah. You know? I just think that they've got like I think that as the season goes on it's still it takes a while

and they've got their their go-to guy, the guy that can get them home Brunson on many cases is a new piece and I do think it takes some time I just think they'll be better than what they've been so far how about Chicago a couple weeks ago I wrote about them I said on the ringer how they're a team that maybe could

decide to blow it up you know they can't they get their well they they they Yes, they can. It's a top four protected. Yeah. They could if they wanted to. Yeah, but the pick's gone.

No, it's not. It's top four protected. It might be gone. There's like an over 50% chance it's gone. But they could blow it up still. So you want to throw away an entire season for a chance that you get a top four pick? And then if you don't get a top four pick, you've pissed. to weigh a whole season for the sixth pick in the draft or the seventh pick in the draft?

No way. Maybe. No. No. I think they're in a tough spot, though. I mean, I might flip Levine for as much as I can get. For other good players? Yeah.

Okay, so you're trying to fix it and build around it. Try to win with Nikola Vosovitch. Congrats. Good job. Stuck in the middle. No, you don't have to do it around Nikola Vosovic, but I mean, you can. I like to assume, moo. I like Caruso.

Maybe they get Lonzo back at some point. Obviously, the Rosen is still very, very good. Pat Williams not come along. Like, you'd want to have come along. But no, I mean, I think that I think that you could probably get

a lot of good stuff. They're kind of in the middle right now anyway. Yeah, they are. I mean, look, I think there's, they're going to lose either their pick this year or next year. If it were to land in the top four this year, next season it's only top three protected.

It's just this year's, you know, you get Scoot Henderson, Victor Wenban Yama, among other highly talented prospects. To me, if you can get down to like fifth, sixth, seventh worst record with 37, you know, 32% odds of landing in the top four, I'd be fine with losing the picnic this year, then going full rebuild next year. I'd be okay with it. You're going to lose one anyway. amongst the teams that are not in the mix right now.

I mean, the safe bet is Dallas in the West, right? It's been disappointing for sure. They're nine and ten so far this year. The whole Christian Wood thing is a incident. What is going on? I don't know. It is strangest thing, man, with Jason Kiddler. You start the year with Javall McGee, who stinks.

Did you see that one the other night, this quote? Yeah. Oh, we have a lot of. Biggs in this locker room. No, but he said something defective, you know, they started out the third quarter with Christian Wood and Luca, like, kind of praised it. Yeah, yeah, Luca liked it.

And then Jason Kidd said, yeah, that third quarter, we didn't get enough stops. And it was like the only quarter they had won in the game. I mean, it just goes to show. And I've covered a million coaches like this. These guys only care about defense. Seriously. Oh, come on.

There's so many coaches. You know, so what? So, oh, I care about defense. I'm going to throw Javelle McGee out there who can't move. Be serious. It's crazy. It's not, it's something else. It's not that he just cares about defense.

I'm telling you. He wants wood to prove himself. I'm telling you. He's trying to make him earn it. No. It's some stupid mind games. I promise you, if you ask these guys, it is always defense. Yeah, let's put out.

Dwight Powell. He's our, he's our enforcer inside. Yeah. Let's put him out there. I'm not defensive. ending it. I'm telling you the way it is. I know, but the logic from it, you're right, maybe that's his logic, but it doesn't make sense. Of course it does.

It makes zero sense. Christian Wood is by far the second best player on that team. No disrespect to Spencer Deadwitty. He's having a very good year. He looks back to being himself. I'm very happy. But Christian Wood is the better player. He can help enhance and compliment Luca in ways that Dinwid can't in that backcourt, where it's more ball sharing.

I flipped on their game last week. It's absurd. When he sat out, I mean, it is dismal. It's ugly. It is dismal. It's ugly. You're like, how are you going to score? And here's the thing, right?

Like, you got, you got Jaden Hardy right now in the G League. Their former top five high school recruit who sucked last year in the G League, falls to 37th in the draft. He is killing people in the G League right now. when he gets called up soon, the fact that Kit is not even giving, you know, regular minutes to Christian Wood, I have zero confidence that he's going to be playing Jaden Hardy any valuable minutes out there over some of these vets are doing nothing. How about this? Hardaway, Bullock, doing nothing.

And they keep getting thrown out there. Makes no sense. Hardy is averaged in 29 points a game in the G League. he's shooting over 50% from the field and over 45% from three. He's killing him. And guess what? I may go down and see him tonight. Wow.

He's in Memphis. Oh, hell yeah. The Texas legends are playing the hustle. Now, I may just watch it on TV because my producer for my local show is the color commentator. The games are on ESPN Plus. So I may just watch it on ESPN Plus, but the next two nights, the Memphis Hustle play the Texas Legends and I went and looked it up

and I saw that that Jaden Hardy kid who played for the Ignite last year is playing for them. He's leading the league in scoring. He's leading the G-League. 29 a game. He looks like the guy that I kind of expected to see last year

for the night. I mean, he was a huge, huge five-star recruit. I had Hardy ranked top five, you know, before the season. I had him ranked in the top 10, top 12 the entire year. I dropped it down.

to 17 on my rankings. And that might be fair. Like he gets drafted at 37th. I have him 17th. Like we'll see how it pans out with him. But like if you're doing a redraft right now, like he's going top 20, top 25. Like he said, he did this last year in the G league.

There's no way. No way he falls outside the lottery. I'm going to tell you something. And I and I watch those games and I'll go down to those games every once in a while. Average of 29 in that thing is not easy. No, not at all. Like there are a lot of really good players. That G-League has gotten so much better.

It's ridiculous. So much better. The quality of players and the quality of play and the coaches so much better over the last five years. And so if you're averaging 29 in the game and shooting high percentages, you've got me impressed for sure. And that kid is, he's laying waste to everybody's face so far. I may have to drive down there and see him in person just to check him out.

You can always watch the highlights of Rosa later. Yeah, right. I mean, I'm right. There's part of it that I want to just watch it on TV, right? Because it is on ESPN Plus. I love that the G League, for the most part, is all on ESPN Plus, so I can just flip it on my whatever, that app. So I can just pull it up on my TV.

Or the ESPN Plus app too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's that. Yeah. You can just pull it up there and the games are on there. And then the Ignite games are all on the NBA app, which is cool for watching Scoot Henderson and all that. Those Scoot's been out with a concussion, I believe, miss some time. By the way, speaking of our redrafts on the Ringers NBA draft show with me and Jay Kyle, man,

we are going to be doing a redraft of the lottery on Wednesday's episode. So, I mean, it's a way too early redraft. It's more like a re-ranking. But it's a good way to talk about, you know, quartermark of the season like we did on today's show, just talking about the quartermark of early impressions of NBA Roe's, I can't wait to hear that. Take it a little easy on Jabari. Books not written.

I agree. It's going to take some time. I'm with you, Chris. I agree with you. You can't give up on Jabari Smith Jr. right now. That dude's too good defensively, man. Like, the shot's going to fall at some point.

He's going to be fine. I think so, too. I can't wait to listen to it. Thank you to our executive producer, Jesse Lopez. As always, Kevin, I will talk to you on Friday. Talk to you Friday, Chris. Have a good week, everybody. You know,