The Mismatch - NBA Summer League Standouts and Rumors of Westbrook to the Nuggets

Episode Date: July 23, 2024

Just after the Heat beat the Grizzlies in the nail-biting NBA summer league championship game (0:58), KOC and Verno convene to talk about the standout players from Vegas this summer (8:26). Then they talk about the rumors flying around that Russell Westbrook will sign with the Denver Nuggets (38:14), Team USA’s exhibition games (44:57), and the news that TNT will be submitting a matching offer to retain NBA rights (49:19). Got a question for Verno and KOC? Send them an email at [e-mail]! Or you can send the guys a tweet @ChrisVernonShow and @KevinOConnorNBA! The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producers: Sasha Ashall and Jessie Lopez Social: Keith Fujimoto Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Join me, Danny Kelly and Danny Highfits on the Ringer Fantasy Football Show for all things, fantasy, NFL, and more. But that time you said, join me, Danny Kelly. It sounds like you're Danny Kelly. It's join me, Craig Horlebeck. Right, right, right, right, right, right, right. Okay. Join me, Craig Horlebeck, as well as Danny Hyfitz and Danny Kelly. Nice. Thank you. For all things, fantasy football, NFL, and more on the Ringer Fantasy Football Show. Boom. Welcome to the mismatch.

Chris Vernon and joining me he does every Monday night from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, a.kha, Kevin O'Bomber, Kevin O'Connor, Kevin O'Colm, Kevin O'Clymclic, aka Kevin O'Candyland, Kevin O'Blessarian, Kevin O'Bernow. I'm sorry. The Grizzlies have lost

the Summer League championship in a very painful overtime with a review. I don't know why we have reviews in overtime of Summer League, but you guys lost. I'm sorry. It's a Summer League Championship game. I will never forget. Kevin, these are the score. as we talk about.

You know, these teams have to take them. Sometimes, you know, you want to start the DVD off with, you remember when they missed those free throws in the Summer League title game? Well, iron sharpens iron.

And what was forged then was the resilience that it took to become whatever, I don't know. That game. It was wildly entertaining, honestly. I'm glad it's over.

I'm glad it's over. You're glad the Summer League's over? I'm glad it's over. I'm ready for the, Olympics full on. You weren't overtaken by Jake Laravia, G.G. Jackson, Scotty Pippin. And then on the other side, Olandis Williams, Khalil Ware, Josh Christopher, Pelle Larson. No? Hell Larson's pretty damn good, man. Obviously, he hit the game winner.

Oh, he can go to hell. Yeah. That's another one of these heat projects. It's probably going to end up being good. Yeah. Years ago, I remember watching Max Strues in the summer league. And now, look, Max Drew's going to end up making like a hundred million dollars in his career. Just so hard nose. I do like Khalil Ware. Yeah, where is nice. I mean, he got the first team, Summer League. He shot around 33% from three in Summer League.

And you got Bam out of Bio for Team USA. He's three for 11 in exhibition games from behind the arc. He was at over 40% to close the season for the heat. Didn't shoot as well in the playoffs, but still finished over 40% last 10. last month or so during the season in the playoffs. So you got, you know, clearly the heat are trying to play five out with two bigs. They're trying to be able to do that. So it's nice to see those guys.

If you're a heat fan, seeing Kelle Ware do everything he was doing activity-wise inside, but then also space on the floor. Super tall, super athletic, looks good shooting, looks like the kind of guy that you're not just going to be able to foul when he catches it under the basket because he's going to be able to make free throws. Yes, good touch. That's a difference between him in lively. not a great free throw shooter

right now, but Colel Ware, like he showed really good touch even a little bit away from the basket on some of those offensive rebounds he had in the first half against Memphis tonight and all through Summer League. But I'm been impressed by his touch. Where really hell, he hit that, he hit it

right at the right time. There were not a lot of centers. You had the two big guys in Klingin and Eadie. And if you wanted to get a center, you're kind of down to like Missy, the kid from Baylor and some of the others. And where was, I think he benefited the most from the Derek lively ascension to being able to be a guy that was playing real minutes in the NBA finals for goodness sakes. And not unlike him, five star, five star, five star, McDonald's All-American, Jordan brand classic game like Mr. Everything coming out of high school, struggled at Oregon, had a pretty good year last year.

at Indiana, but the college experience was truly up and down. It certainly did not help his draft stock. He's one of those guys that if you would have drafted him straight out of high school years ago, he probably had a higher rating. That being said, we've learned that it's a different game in the NBA, and I think these guys that are athletic can get to the rim and can do a lot of the things that wear brings to the table, you're also of great benefit to him is where he fell.

And we've talked about this so many times. Is it a chicken or the egg thing? Why are there so many guys that have fallen between 15 and 20 that have ended up being so good? Is it because they have gone to legitimate organizations on typically winning franchises that are able to develop them better and then be part of a good basketball court? culture or is it that these teams consistently get steals when it comes to the draft, right?

There was all those years where Indiana never had a lottery pick, yet they were producing players. We've seen it with Miami. We've seen it with Milwaukee. We've seen it, you know, not the least with the spurs, right, when they did it with Kauai. And so you wonder, you know, if Khalil where what he develops into if he's playing in Washington or something like that, But it's certainly going to be a good situation for him in Miami. And I do think that- Ideal situation. Like this is best case scenario.

Get to the quote-unquote heat culture and a team that's trying to win and compete now. It's perfect for him, a guy that there's questions about his motor and mentality and approach to the game. So then you go to Miami. I mean, I can't imagine a better situation for him from a basketball standpoint. And also, the two big aspects, I am fascinated. by for Miami because you got Bamatabaya who started shooting three to close the year and then you draft Kalal Ware a guy who's been shooting three since high school very clear to me that the Miami Heat want to be a team that can space the floor five out on the offensive end and still maintain

size and room protection you'll probably see Kalal Ware playing the five for Miami this year and then Bamato Bayo will be more in that roaming power forward role where he can just wreak havoc around the floor switch on the perimeter do all the same stuff that he's always done as one of the the game's best defenders, but then also now have the support of a seven-footer protecting the rim next to him. So I'm pretty bullish on the heat front court with what they can be. Obviously, where needs to translate as a rookie, but a very encouraging start, I'd say for him in Summer League. And I liked that Alondis Williams, you know, just looking at a guy that's a free agent and

somebody's going to pick him up, whether it's a two-way deal or it's, you know, however. But that's an ACC player of the year at Wake Forest just a few years ago. And he's a dog. and he obviously had one of the great dunks of all Summer League this year. That was a big, big, big, big, big dunk. That was cool. On the Memphis side, huge step forward for Gigi Jackson, the last part of the Summer League, started off slow, but then was great outside of missing free throws.

Did you see him improve since the end of the season? Did he get it better at any micro skills? No question. I thought he was a mess at the beginning of Summer League. And then at the end of Summer League, he started going to the basket a lot more. He's not taking like 10 threes a game. Even compared to the end of the regular season, you kind of saw new wrinkles.

There's no question. His ball handling and like a couple of the euro moves, his ability to get to the basket. It's just better understanding, getting a little bit older. And he'll probably get some minutes. And then Scotty Pippin Jr. was a huge revelation. He was the best player on the floor

for the majority of the Summer League games that he played in. And he looks like a real NBA player. I don't know if it will be as a backup point card for Memphis or he's going to end up on an NBA roster. I had a triple double last game. No, I know. He's good. He's a good player and he defends too.

I had to change my opinion on him completely because he was on a two-way contract last year and I was like, eh, but he was, he really did look better than his peers in the summer league in a way. We're going to go through all the different guys that stood out in summer league. So I'm just going to kind of go down through the lottery. Rees-ishay, we only saw him in two games. James. We didn't see him enough. You know, he had the bruised quad or whatever, so no real gauge.

I mean. And not a lot to say. He looked okay. I thought Kyle Mann over at the ringer had a good write-up on the website, written, written Jay Kyle, man, not a video, Jay Kyle, man, but, you know, written word, Jay Kyle, man. I thought he did a good job describing how he said, you know, he looks fine. He looked like a guy is going to fit well with that Atlanta offense next to Tray Young,

but we just didn't see a lot of them. Well, hey, and I remember. your argument with Jonathan Gavoni, where Gavoni was pumping him up as the number one pick in the draft and that most teams would take him number one and talking about how willing a shooter he was. He did take eight threes a game in the games that he played and also did not hit them. So, same thing. 25%. If I remember correctly, like those was, you know, weeks ago early and similarly, he had one game where he shot really well from three and then one game, he clunked everything. So typical of his season overseas as well. And also,

only hit 42.9% of his free throws as well. Speaking of missing everything, Alex Sar. Oh, my God. Did we talk about his O for 15? We did not. I don't think we did, right? No, oh my God, that's disgusting. I'm sorry, I missed that in purpose.

I mean, in person. What bothered me most about Alex Sarr's O for 15 game wasn't just the missed shots. Like, you know, everybody has games where they miss shots. Not everybody has games where they go over 15, But everybody has games when they miss shots. But Alex Sar is over 15 game. He didn't just miss shots, but he was passive.

He was settling. He didn't feel like a guy who was playing with strength or power getting to the basket. He was taking these little mid-range shots, settling for threes. And even then he was missing those shots. And that aggression is something that I do worry about with Sar. It made me think about while watching that game, what Damien Wilkins, the head of overtime elite, their GM said, me in my interview with him for the draft show.

Damien Wilkins said, when we got in Sarr, this was now three years ago, he said, when we got in Sarr, I had to tell him, hey, man, you're seven feet tall. Nobody can stop you, get into the basket, because all he wanted to do was shoot, shoot, pull up, you know, three pointer, step back, all that. They had to teach him, be more aggressive, be more aggressive. Well, he did get a little bit more aggressive, but the numbers never really got better for him as an at-room finisher off of self-creator. shots. And that just came back into my mind watching him really throughout the summer league,

but especially in that 0 for 15 game where it's like, dude, you're seven feet tall. Use your size to your advantage. And it doesn't feel like he often does that. I describe him in the draft guide as a wing stuck in a center's body. And that that's like exactly what he feels like to me, especially this summer. And that's worrisome in my eyes. You know, every year when we do this show, I always say, you never want to over react to Summer League, but that guy stinks. He stinks, Kevin. 19% from the field. I know, 19%. He stinks. You can't shoot 19% bro. In four games too. That's crazy. 19% average on the four games. It's crazy. I might have got it pegged right when I said

Alex Sar just sounds like the kind of guy that's going to suck. And that was just judging on his name. But my God, I never counted on 19 a game. Here's the thing. Even if you remove the O-F50 in game, he still only shot 28% and the other- He's seven-foot-tall, bro. It's Summer League. Yeah. There's guys you've literally never heard of in your life and will never hear of again that shoot reasonable percentages in Summer League. And he's been playing again. And he's been playing against he hasn't been playing like college competition. A lot of these kids are coming straight out of college. Some of these are still trying to

make it the NBA after a couple of years. But I mean, theoretically, he has been playing a better competition. I know that you've poked holes in that, that he is not exactly always taken on the greatest of competition. He came off the bench. I got you. You know, 15, 16 minutes a game off the bench.

He might be terrible. It's possible. Yeah. It's possible. Might be. If there is a reasonable summer league overreact, I think a guy that shot 19% it's fair. Okay. I mean,

I'll tell you what, I feel good about moving him down to six on my board. I just wonder if that wasn't low enough. Well, I mean, can you imagine if you're a Wizards executive and you're sitting in the stands and you stuck around for a Reed Shepherd game?

Oh, my God. I know. Oh, my God is right. Yeah. I mean, you could even say that about Atlanta. What have I done? Yeah.

I mean, what have I done? Reed looked in control. he looked dynamic. He looked like the same guy he was at Kentucky except on an even higher usage with more on his plate and he was getting thrown double teams, triple teams thrown at him in one of those games

and he managed to get better from an 04-7, 048 start. And I just think Reed proved a lot about his toughness and grit and scoring ability, creation ability, where you look at his 18% usage rate for at Kentucky last year and you're like, well, maybe Kentucky. like he could have got a lot more out of Reed Shepard and probably won more games and had better seating in the tournament.

You better watch out if he hits threes too because he didn't even really hit threes in this summer league. And he averaged 20 and he averaged three steals in a block every game. So, I mean, he was super active on that end as well. You know, everything we could have wanted to see for Shepard we saw. And certainly looks like he is destined to become the player that you and I were both very high on. One last thing on Shepard. That game against Minnesota, I think.

I mean, I know he scored what, 26 points in his first game. I think his third, fourth game, whatever it was against the Timberwolves, that was the game where he impressed me most. I didn't watch that game live, but I went back and watched it. He struggled first quarter. He had like five turnovers in the first quarter. Minnesota throwing multiple guys at him. You know, Deshaun Nick's doing a good job defending him with his size.

But Shepard's adjustments throughout that game. getting more comfortable with defensive pressure, creating shots for himself and teammates. I thought that was the game where he showed flashes of what he can be down the line in the NBA more than any other. And he really blew me away that game. All right. As we run through the rest of the guys,

Stefan Castle, we only got to see one. Obviously, had the 22 points in that game, and then they shut him down after that. But in the brief amount of time that we saw Castle, impressive. Yeah, impressive. And liked him coming out of college.

Ron Holland is an interesting one because the numbers look pretty good at the 19 points of game, six and a half rebounds, a couple of assists, some steals, some blocks. I'm going to be interested with him because of where he fits in with Cade and Ivy and the rest. Because it does sometimes look like he has, he's just been like, I think he could take whatever shot he probably wanted to for overtime elite. and they were awful. Like you're playing on, you know, when talking about the guys. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm sorry.

G League. When you play for bad teams and you could do whatever you want rather than within a team concept, and I don't know if that necessarily is going to serve him well to, you know, he's the prize possession.

He's like the number one recruit, and they were able to get him to go over there and play for the G League elite team, obviously, with Bezellis. But, you know, he's going to have to, fit in the mix. He likes to shoot and he's not very good at shooting. But by all accounts, mega hard worker and a really good kid. And so I kind of just lean toward really hard worker

and really good kid usually figures it out. But it's going to be an adjustment for him because he's not, you know, you're moving into a situation where you're drafted five, but you're really not one of the leading shot takers on the team probably. I mean, he's going to have to improve as a I mean, he averages 19 points a game, like you said, but he also shot 23.5% from 3, 65% from the free throw line. So if you're playing a, you know, a secondary role on Detroit, which you will be, you're going to have to hit spot-up threes. And so for Ron Holland, like we talked about after the draft, it's the same story. They hired Fred Vincent, one of the best shooting coaches in the world, the most successful shot doctor in recent years with the way he helped improve Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingram, among others. well, let's see what he can do with Ron Holland.

So I'm not really judging Ron Holland off Detroit. I think he still impresses in the ways that he impressed for the Ignite. And he still offers question marks in the same ways he did before. Nothing's changed. Salon we didn't see. Klingin did. Well, he saw Salon, you know, play a little bit. And he shot like 10% from three and still looked like a guy who's still learning how to play basketball.

But it's still like, I don't know, it doesn't matter. Like he's a long term bet. That's what he is. Yeah, I mean, you can't tell anything by watching. Exactly. It's completely irrelevant with him. It's not about the production. It only would be relevant.

I know it's probably unfair to say. It would only be relevant if he suddenly looked ready. Right. And it's no surprising he looked unready. Completely. Klingin, led in rebounding, 12 a game. Did all the stuff that you want Donovan to do, right? He rebounds a lot.

He blocked shots, active. So, I mean, I think if you're Portland, you're happy with what you saw out of in the Summer League. I would agree. Active big guy that does exactly what most people projected him to be able to do. Do you believe in Klingin as a guy that will be able to shoot three someday? Just to give the stats in Summer League, he shot 23% from three, 50% from the free throw line. Those numbers aren't far off from what he was from the line at Yukon or in high school.

He also did not shoot the ball well from three in high school either. But he always has fancied himself as a guy who can someday shoot threes. Do you buy it? no I don't either I think he's gonna be an interior guy and maybe like down the line that he figures it out because he's got some touch on post-ups and whatnot but it hasn't translated

ever from three point range or from the free throw line but that's like a that's the cherry on top that's an additive skill if he starts shooting threes you're talking about someone something much greater than what you imagine he could be but I view him as you know focusing on the interior right now

I also think he's a really good passer oh he's a really nice passer You know what you can do a lot. He brings a lot to the table. More than a finisher. Dillingham turned it up late in the summer league. Man, I tell you this, I ran into him twice while I was out in Vegas. Kev, he is small.

He's tiny. He's 164 pounds. Really, but I mean, he's not tall either. I wish I could be 164 pounds. He's not, but he's not tall. Like, I mean, man, it's, you realize how shifty that dude has to be to be able to get separation between people because he is really at a disadvantage. You walk around all these giants all day and then you see him and he's just like a regular dude. You know, ended up 14 and 8, 36% from the field. He's going to have a hard time

finishing. He's not going to have a hard time like doing the Jamal Crawford bang, bang, step back, hit a three. But as long as he could set up his teammates and be that kind of like, you know, he's in the situation too where it's like, hey man, you can come off the bench and get some buckets for us. You could do the Malik Monk thing. And by the way, you ever run into Malik Monk, you're shocked at how small he is as well. So I kind of fancied, you know, Dillingham is like that monk type guy. And I do think that he is a bucket getter for sure. And he's going to have Mike Conley there in front of him.

He's going to be on, you know, one of the best teams in the Western Conference and be able to fit in. He's playing for a good coach. And so I do think he's set up. to be able to reach whatever it is. I just think it's going to be, it's going to be hard for him to be scoring inside the free throw line. You know, because he's really not the kind of guy that's going to be taking a lot of contact.

And I think it's going to be hard for him to finish amongst the trees because he's not a mega, mega athlete. It's a good athlete, right, obviously, very, very shifty. But he's a bucket getter score. And hopefully,

uh, it looked like by that last game, when he had the 25 and 12, that's like the best of Dillingham. And that's like when you're, when you see into the future and you go, what's the best version of this kid look like? That's it.

Yeah. There were moments like that, for sure, where he can get on a heater. He can score, man. He can score. That's what you want to see is flashes of upside and seeing developmental, you know, progress over, you know,

a period of time and the fact that And what was that? That was his final game or second to final game? Final game, right? Yeah, I think it was the last one. Yeah, I think it was his last one. You know, he had nifty passes, you know, getting into the teeth of the defense. And I think with Dillingham, you talk about the finishing aspect.

Maybe that won't be there for him, especially early on his career. But if he can still get into the teeth of the defense and that activates his playmaking ability, to me, that's the thing that then the playmaking suddenly could help out as finishing. So if Dillingham can continue. proving he's more than just a scorer. That's what could help him over the course of time with being an at-room finisher despite being so small. Next one was Edy.

I obviously saw him in Utah, and then we got, we only got to see him for like nine minutes in Vegas. Why is that? What's going on? Are they hiding him? They just resting him because it's unnecessary? Was he hurt?

No, no, no. He got hurt twice. Okay. So he had a bad ankle turn in the Utah game when they played out there. and then they were like, we're not messing with this at all. Of course. We're going to make sure this guy's 100%.

But then he wanted so badly to play and he was back to being fine and then he came out, played nine minutes, and turned the exact same ankle. And at that point, you're just shut down. And he was furious about it.

I mean, if you were, for any of it is watching the game, he screamed into the microphone. Like, you know, you can hear it under the basket. And he screamed.

F, and then he goes, I just want to play. He just wants to play. I mean, it's not fun for him, a competitor like that sitting on the bench, but he was good in the nine minutes that he played in the second game, too. So we're just going to have to wait until the preseason. Next guy, Cody Williams, I saw him in Utah, and it was like, nah. And then kind of fit in and shot high percentages and fit in as a role player on that team in Utah. and I think they probably were happy with the promise that he showed. He was kind of outshined by Filipowski,

who was drafted in the second round and really turned up when they got out to Vegas. And, you know, maybe it's good to just go and focus on to basketball after all those weird-ass stories that came out about him after the draft with the whole family and the girlfriend and just, do you read all that? That was crazy. Yeah, I know. Like his brother and mom going on Twitter and yeah saying that like his wife kind of like helped He separated him from the family and is like grooming him to be a Mormon.

I was like what in the world? I mean regardless of anything happening off the court, he looked damn good on the court. He did. He shot over 40% from three for the jazz. He looked like one of the steals of the second round. And like I was I've been like a I've been a doubter of Philopowski. But I mean he looked like he's somebody that could prove me wrong. in Summer League.

I was impressed by him. The three-point shot looked good. Everything looked good. And when you consider the fact he was doing it with all that off-court stuff, all the controversy on social media and whatnot, I think that gives some extra bonus points for withstanding that and focusing on the court and producing. The reason I'm bringing it up is

because it became a huge story as to why a guy like that fell in the second round. He played Duke. I mean, he fell because he's not a great basketball player at Duke. He underwhelmed going back to Duke his second year. I don't know. I I don't really don't think they have a lot of high school player who did not have a bad

college year at all. He was solid, but he was good. And he was always projected middle of the first round, though, Ken. That's not true. He was, he was not. I don't know what boards you're reading.

It was a mid to mid, mid to late first or early second guy. That's what I just said. I know, but you said mid first. He was on every board. But he wasn't like a guaranteed guy. He wasn't like a lottery.

He was more like, you know, late team. I got you, but the story came out. Jonathan Gavoni said these teams are all asking him about his girlfriend, and I don't understand why they. I think it has more to do with the basketball aspects. Maybe.

Doesn't seem like they were right then. Maybe not. That's what I'd say. We'll see. The point was, if it was a basketball thing, this guy's a better basketball player than a lot of his peers. Maybe. And so he ends up shooting 46%.

I'd like to know which team would have taken him in the 20s. I mean. Well, you think it's random that that. freaking team in Utah is the one that took him that was comfortable taking him. Come on. That's home. Now, I guess, away from the Philpowski's. I just look at the choices made by teams in the 20s.

I just, I don't disagree with, you know, other than maybe AJ Johnson at 23 to the bucks. And by the way, Johnson was, you know, he had his moments for the bucks. He had his moments. But other than that, when I look at the picks in the 20s and I'm like, yeah, I get all of these. over Philoposky. Philoposky went exactly where I kind of expected him to go.

Late first, early second. Late teens seemed more unlikely in my eyes based off of the conversations I had pre-draft. Bezellis had some moments. He did not shoot very well from the field or from three, but he had some awesome dunks. Yeah, he's a big dunks. And obviously, he had some great stare-downs too.

Good defensive moments, good activity. You know, he showed off some handling ability, but obviously the scoring efficiency needs to get. dramatically better. He did not shoot the ball well at all again. Is it me? He is, like when I saw those like dunk highlight, it's a little Kirillinko reminiscent. That's kind of what he looked like to me. I mean, Buzzel told me in my interview with him, he said like AK-47 is one of the guys that he watches. He wants to model his game after. I believe he said that again during Summer

League. I think he made an all-star game at one point. Yeah, I think so too. And he would have been even better today than he wasn't as actual time playing in the NBA with the way the games evolved. Didn't see Topich, didn't see Devin Carter. Bub Carrington showed well. Maybe that they could be excited. Look, if I'm a Washington fan, I'm more excited about Bub Carreyton than I am Alex Saar, which is super depressing. Yet on the other hand, like, you know, if I'm looking for fun stuff to watch during the season,

you convince yourself, hey, maybe they found something with that 14th pick at least. Carrington 36% from 3. That's good. That's encouraging because at the college level, he was a mid-range assassin. Was not a super high-volume three-point shooter. And the summer league, though, he did shoot only 29% from 2-point range. He still needs to get better at getting to the basket, actually finishing at the basket. But it's at least encouraging that he improved, it seems, as shooting from 3

and the willingness to shoot from 3 instead of from mid-range. So it's pretty clear to me that was a summer focus for him. extending his range off the dribble. So I think if you're a wizard's fan, you feel really happy about that. So, I mean, the ad room finishing, so leaves don't prove,

but that might not happen for years. I mean, anything is promising when your number two picks, it's 19%. Yes, exactly. Anything. In terms of the guys that actually did stay down,

we ran through the lottery. And there were other guys that certainly had moments, forgive us when we leave out your guy. I know Nick's fans got excited about Tyler Colick. a little bit for a minute. And there were some other guys that had some moments. The Summer League teams were Scotty Pippin Jr., Jordan Miller, who we mentioned last week on the pod,

Gigi Jackson, Reed Shepherd, Khalil Ware. We've touched on all those guys, except for Miller, which we talked about last week. Bub Carrington made second team, Jaime Hockas, who barely played, but was obviously better than his peers. Jaris Walker? Where were you on Jaris Walker?

I forget. I believe I had him ranked like five, I think, on my board last year. Okay, so you really liked him last year. Let me, let me fact check myself right there. Got drafted to a good team, didn't see him much. I had him seventh. I had a seventh on my board. Okay, so you were on it.

And he ended up going, I think, eighth, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah, I believe so. Good to see him take a step forward. Definitely, no doubt. I mean, I think he's one of those big-time X factors for the Pacers. Jordan Wilson, who was a, that's a seven. second year guy, right? Or Jalen Wilson.

Jaylen Wilson. Second year guy from Kansas. He, I mean, there's an absolute miscarriage of justice for him to win the MVP over Scotty Pippin Jr. But that's neither here nor there. He did win the MVP. And I think he's a net. So, hey, there's your McKell Bridges replacement for your fun season you're about to watch. And then Donna McLean.

He made it too. So it was Jaylin Wilson that was the MVP. You know who I think should have made it or, you know, I don't know if he played enough games or whatever. I don't know the rules. Tristan De Silva with the magic. Oh, yeah. The Silva was really good, dude. He shot the hell out of it.

He did all the stuff. He saw at Colorado. Good decision making, you know, rebounded defense. Tristan De Silva looked like a player. Like a legit NBA guy. Yeah, because I didn't really like him when I watched him in college. Remember, you told me to go out of my way to watch Colorado. And you like KJ Simpson more.

Yeah, and I was like, eh. Yeah. The Cody Williams gives me Zaire Williams flashbacks. Tristan de Silva, just a guy. But this KJ Simpson, oh my God. Yeah, but, you're right. Tristan De Silva did play well for them in the summer league. Look, here's the point.

This was a crap summer league, if we're being honest. People were not jazzed about it in the same way that they have been in years past. And that is all a reflection of the rookie class. The fact that the banner had Alex Tsar and Brony James on it, tells you everything you need to know about this version of Summer League, right? That's what they were promoting this year. Summer League's always good. It's always fun for the fans.

But this was, as you talked about, I think it's a good draft if you want to get some guys that can maybe have careers, be role players in the NBA. This is not a star draft. And so when you were going to hope to see the next stars of the league, this was not a draft that featured that in the same way as years passed. And the truth is, as I am seeing all of this prep stuff go off in the summer, EYBL stuff that's getting a lot of run online, the peach jam stuff that's getting a lot of run online.

This is the last one, Kevin, that we're going to have for quite some time now. Oh, yeah. That is not like, oh, wow, we're going to get to go see. Cooper flag. We're going to go see the Boozer kids. We're going to go see Ace Bailey. We're going to go see A.J. DeBansta. We're going to go see, like, it's on and on and on. And some of these kids are just different. You can tell at this like sophomore, junior, senior high school level, there are some special, special talents coming down the pike these next three years that we are for sure going to be. I could, totally foresee us doing a show a year from now where we are just raving about what we just watched at Summer League when we went out of our way to watch the two kids that are going to Rutgers and Cooper Flagg and all these other guys. Because I see these, I get it, it's mixtapes, we've made fun of mixtapes.

But, Ro, this is beyond mixtapes. These are like, in between those ones I just mentioned, DeBansta, Boozer, Flag, like, these don't look like future NBA all stars already. I mean, look, the 2025 drafts, I mean, Cooper flag in all likelihood is going to be the number one pick, but there's other guys who are going to be competitive for the number one spot. And they're all worthy number one prospect quality players.

It's not like this year where it's like, I don't know, none of them are really number one pick quality. There's a number of guys next year that could be number one pick quality. And then never mind in 2026 with the, DeBanza, Brockton, Massachusetts, City of Champions, AJ DeBanza, the dude's incredible. Six foot eight, shot creator, versatile player. The dude's going to be filthy.

And he might be the best prospect of anybody coming in the next two to three years, better than Cooper Flag, better than Camboozer. But we're not going to get him until 2026. So, I mean, the focus will be on 2025, of course, this next year. But like you said, the Rutgers kids, you know, another French point guard coming in, another a couple of international players as well. They're going to be sprinkled in through that lottery. But Cooper Flagg going to Duke, Duke of all schools, of course, you know, big time,

lot of attention on them, no matter who's on the roster. Cooper Flagg could have a Zion level type of impact when it comes to interest on the draft, especially if he shines, which I believe he will. I think he's going to be the number one pick. He's number one on my board for next year. But yeah, it's going to be the complete opposite of what we just watched. So I'm very excited for the next draft cycle Because yeah, this year

I mean, I think fans listening to this podcast know that Unless you're a hardcore But even if you are a hardcore, it's just wasn't as exciting to follow as what was last year. And really, I think this was our eighth year Doing this podcast together. This was probably the least interesting draft class. There's no question.

Not even close. I mean, every other year was far more interesting. There's two rookies on the first team, Summer League and it's Reed Shepard and Khalil Ware. Yeah, that's a good point. Good point. On the second team, there's Bubb Carrington and Donovan Klingin.

Yeah, I don't know what it wasn't past years. I don't really have a good recollection of, you know, Summer League first and second team in the top of my mind. But you certainly remember us coming out of Summer League having strong opinions about a lot of what we saw. Yeah. Sometimes

they were foolhardy. Sometimes it was amazing performance. where it just didn't take after that. And then sometimes it was, oh, my gosh, did they blow it drafting Lori marketing? But then it took years. And now he's like an all NBA level player. Or, oh, God, is Trey Young going to be okay? Because he was such a mess at the beginning of that.

But like, there was always a buzz over watching all of these different guys. Even last year, I mean, I had to sit in the upper. deck to see Wemby last year. Crazy. In that game against Kai Jones, that first night. And Jabari Parker, Jabari Parker, Jabari Smith was there. I'm really going to call him Jabari Parker forever. It's going to be awful.

I'm trying. I'm curious about your thoughts on this, because of the quality of the draft class, does it make you worry more about some of the returning second and third year guys that stunk? AJ Griffin, stunk. Jalen Pickett stunk Marjohn Bochamp stunk so like these guys did not score the ball well

did not look like guys that should be dominating as second or third year guys in some cases are you more worried about them more out on some of those guys? I think it's a big warning sign yeah you should be better

you should be dominating really or not it's not dominating but at least excelling like Jalen Pickett for Denver. You and I loved him coming out of the draft out of Penn State. He didn't play a lot this past year under Michael Malone. Didn't play a lot in the G League for that matter either. It's all like he was

a nightly guy there. He just might not be good enough. He just might not be good enough, exactly. He might not be quick enough. He's always been kind of a quirky player. But then again, he was also a very late bloomer in college as well. So maybe he just needs a hell of a lot more time. But talk about SARS numbers, pick it all, only shot

21% from the floor and four games. for Denver. And by the way, we didn't talk about it. The Denver Nuggets have signed Russell Westbrook. Oh, yeah. Your guy, wait till he's cutting off the ball. Jokic is finding him in the dunker spot. He's taking the dunker spot from Aaron Gordon. Aaron Gordon sitting down and now Russ is down there. Just finishing, attacking the rim. And I shouldn't say they have signed him. They reportedly will sign him. Reportedly will. We still are there, right? We're still not to the point that they will sign him or have signed him. We're still at the

reportedly will sign him. And then they're like this will happen level of signing him. But why hasn't it happened yet? What's the weight? What's going on here? What would be of all his amazing achievements, including the MVP's, the title, dominating the NBA finals and everything else,

if Nicoliyokic could make you start liking Russell Westbrook, it would be his greatest NBA achievement. It would be. It really would be. It really would. What if he, We have always said it is such a blessing to get to play with Yokic. He just makes everybody better. He makes everybody better.

That's the kind of player he is. And you know the offense is running through him. And so now I guess we're about to see. But man, that would be, that would be, I mean, that would need to be on his Kevin O'Connor's version of a Hall of Fame plan. Made me warm up to Russell Westbrook. That would be the greatest achievement. I mean, unfortunately, like, you have some people, you know, saying Yokic can solve anybody. Yokic can fix anybody.

Well, anyone. I know, you know, for years, Tom Brady could fix almost everybody. But not everybody, though. He couldn't fix Chad Ocho Cinco. He couldn't fix Antonio Brown. There are some unfixables at the wide receiver position for even the goat, Tom Brady. And I believe for the Denver Nuggets, if they do indeed sign. Russell Westbrook, it will prove to be the case that Yokic can't even fix him because it will be a disaster.

He can't shoot. He's a poor decision maker. His rim pressure is fake these days. He's not an effective at rim finisher anymore. He's a sloppy decision maker. You want to sign him to be better than Reggie Jackson. I'm not sure he's even better than Reggie Jackson for the Denver Nuggets. So never, don't even get started on saying, oh, he can be a supercharged version of Bruce Brown.

No, no, no, no, no, no, not even close. This is your guy, Calvin Booth. It's one step ahead. He's one step ahead, Kev. He sees what no one else sees. Michael Malone and Yokic see what they don't see. Do you think, who do you think is actually the driving force behind? You think so?

Just Yonkich. A hundred percent. He wants him. Somebody reported DeAndre Jordan as well, but why hasn't it happened yet? I don't know. I don't know. I'm my, this is completely unsourced what I'm about to say. But why hasn't it happened yet?

My gut feeling tells me that the nuggets are looking for other guys out there instead of Ross. And Russ is the backup plan. Maybe the finances, you know, and they're trying to figure out what the roster's going to look like is they're figuring it all out. Oh, I mean, I'll tell you what, Jalen Pickett really stinking during Summer League does not help Calvin Booth's case to roll with a young guy. Okay, I'm going to tell you this. There is no greater disparity in NBA history. between how players feel about another player versus how the media feels about another player

than Russell Westbrook. It is unsurprising to me that Yokic wants him. Guys love competitors. They love and they want those guys on their teams. And say whatever you want. At a time when Yokich was not respected, Westbrook also respected Yokich and embraced him when he was an all-star. And so they've kind of had a liking to each other for years now.

And he's the ultimate competitor who, no matter what, What you want to say about his shortcomings. This guy cares deeply about winning, playing hard, being on a schedule, being a professional, playing hard in practice, playing hard in games. Absolutely. All that kind of stuff. He can help energize a locker room that, you know, it feels a little stale. They missed him when he was out for L.A. last year.

They missed him when he went out for that long amount of time with the Clippers. But why do they want to let him go? Well, because they're spending a fortune. on their team and it stinks. I mean, their team stink. And they've put the ball in your guy's hands. James Hardin. Because Hardin's a far better player at this point of their careers.

Well, I mean, always has been. Every stage of their careers is a better player. It's for another day. Okay, see, might win a title of Russell Westbrook isn't shooting more than Kevin Durant. Oh, well, I mean, I guess we could, I guess we can figure out what happened in a lot of those Houston playoff games, but we don't need to recount all those. But why would it be that the clippers would rather have Chris Dunn? Because they're a very average-ass team with the ball in James Hardin's hands.

Okay. You know, what, are you going to hold them up as the beacon of brilliance? No, I'm just saying, but like, why did they want to keep Paul George? I'm just saying, I'm just saying he was so important to the clippers. Why didn't they want to keep Paul George? He was so important that they decided to take on Chris Dunn. signed Kevin Porter Jr. I just said he was important to them last year.

I know. I'm just saying. He was important to them last year. He was. Anybody that watched the Clippers last year knows that he was important to them. They didn't have any two after he was out. Until in the playoffs,

two for nine, 0 for seven, two for eight, two for 11, two for seven. I mean, you got to blame him. Five games. I mean, you got to blame him,

really? I'm not blaming him. I'm not blaming him. He's not even. blaming him. He's a bench player now. I'm not, I'm not blaming him. I'm simply, I'm not blaming him. I have simply detailing what he did in the postseason. That's all. Okay. He's a bench player. Just sharing his stat lines. It's just a fact. Okay. Amongst the reason, kind of like Alex Sar, almost over 15. No, he was honoring Hardin. Because he's gone two for 11 in like

multiple elimination games. Okay. So he's like, I'm the to honor my favorite concert date elimination player and do the same thing. A tribute. I understand. Yes, it's a tribute. I get it. Team USA beat Germany

after almost losing to South Sudan. I got to be honest with you. I'm not feeling the whole I'm happy that LeBron James played well in the fourth quarter and hit the game winner against South Sudan. I'm happy that he turned up and was

it was great against Germany. I'm really not feeling the celebration tweets and Instagrams. Like, LeBron's done it again. I'm like, why are we, why are we playing one-point games against South Sudan and two bucket games against Germany when Dennis Schrooter's four for a thousand? Like, I don't, should I be worried or are they just dicking around until they get to the real stuff? because I'm starting to get a little concerned.

What do you think? It doesn't feel like we're going to mow everybody down in the Olympics, and that's kind of why we recruited the Avengers to go do this. And Embed is, boy, he's talking about how he needs to round himself in shape or whatever. I'm like, oh, God. On one hand, it's just an exhibition. On the other hand, you get Yokic coming up on Sunday on the 28th against Serbia. They popped him the last time.

They did play them. what last week and took care of them. That was the only time I was impressed with them. Yeah, exactly. I mean, on the other hand, that was just an exhibition. And will Serbia turn up for the actual games when Yokic's, you know, might be playing more than just 28 minutes? But against South Sudan, there were 43 and a half point favorites. I know.

They want not the buzzer. And it goes to the buzzer, exactly. So, I don't know. Is the USA just, I'm not reading into it too much. Is the USA just taking it a little easy in these games, or is this team nowhere if they are close? I think that first game against Serbia will be very telling and who they really are. But I do think there are questions about, has Steve Kerr figured out the right rotations, the right lineups here? Should Joe Al-Mabeed still be starting?

Should it be Anthony Davis? Should it be Ban Abio? Because it sure as hell doesn't look like it should be Joe Al-A-Beed at this point. It also just feels like the Lakers to me where it's like, okay, this is all about LeBron. I know he's going to carry the flag and whatever. It's like, I don't know. I don't think Booker should start.

I don't think Embedge should start. I think the team looks better when 80s out there. And I'd rather see Anthony Edwards starting or Tatum. And Kerr needs to start making some threes as well. Of course. I mean, yeah, that goes without saying for sure. Hopefully they can get it together. They have not been together all that long.

but maybe we just keep learning this over and over again. It doesn't matter how talented you are. You can't just throw it all together even and just have a couple of weeks. I hope they can. I hope they can. But, I mean, you see these other teams. You see the way they play together on a string. And you see how disciplined they are.

And you see they're like actually a team, a team. And we can't just throw together like the All-Star game and replicate being a team. And the talent doesn't, you know, I think it used to be that the talent would just totally overwhelm everyone. But it feels it feels very like when I was when I was young, I play in these men's leagues, right? Me and my 23-year-old buddies would roll up into a gym and then we'd play against these 40-year-old guys that have been playing together for like 20 years. And they'd be back-cutting us. I mean, they just mow us down.

We just thought we're right. We'll just outrun, out-jump, out-do everything. and then you get mowed by these, you know, grown-ass men who have been playing in the, you know, they've had the same church league team for the last 12 years. It's like playing the spurs or something. And it does feel like that when I'm watching these, you know, international games sometimes. It's like these guys all know each other. They know where they're cutting. They know how to play with each other.

They've been playing with each other since they were children. And our team just looks like an all-star game. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I think also, you know, Kevin Durant hasn't played. So I think Kevin Durant should replace Booker in the starting five. And if Embed continues to look sluggish and not like his full self, then at some point, Anthony Davis or Bamatabio should be starting over him. A couple other things you need to hit on real quick. The TNT news.

So everybody was celebrating this. Like, oh, TNT's coming back. TNT put out, TNT put out maybe the weirdest press release ever today. A, I don't know what the hell font they used, but it hurt my eyes to read it. And then they spent the first two paragraphs acting like they weren't going to have the NBA. And then in the last said, we're exercising this provision and we're excited to get with the NBA about this. So as it goes, NBA signed all their media rights deals, right? TNT wasn't going to be involved.

Part of it was Amazon. So they said, TNT says, we have the right to match for a portion of the games. So they go, they see the contract, and they say, okay, so it seems like NBC's in the clear, ESPN's in the clear on everything they're going to get in the NBA package, right? Peacock, NBC, ESPN, ABC, all those are in the clear. They said, okay, we'll take the Amazon deal. But I think the NBA wants the Amazon deal. The NBA does want the Amazon deal. And so now this is going to go to quarter some crap?

I think it could go to court. And what I was told today is that NBA owners actually all gone on a call tonight. And there was talk about how shock they were. TNT actually matched the Amazon deal. So I guess there's some surprise on the high-level NBA side of things about that, whoa, TNT actually did it. They actually matched. Why are they doing this?

This does actually make any sense for them? So I think this is really just beginning here. I don't think it's clear cut that T&T will. be getting any games. Well, is it a payoff, right? Is it just, are they doing it just to get a payoff to say, hey, it's not our fault that Charles Barkley and Kenny Smith and Shaq and Ernie and the thing that you guys love and the thing that you're so used to for so many years are going away?

We put our bid in, but really it's kind of like a phony bid because they know the NBA, because they know the NBA wants this other partner. The other partner obviously has a lot more capabilities going forward. Oh, no, no. Because Amazon's also going to get involved in the regionals as well. That's already been a story where Amazon's going to get involved in the regional side. So, like, there may come a day where you're in your local market and your games. You're watching them on Amazon Prime.

On Amazon, exactly, which is one other reason why I think TNT, I think it could be a legal matter here because even within the statement, just listen to the language they use. They can't offer that. Yeah, it's like they said, the league notified us of its intention to accept other offers for the games in our current rights package, leaving us to proceed under the matching rights provision, which is an integral part of our current agreement and the rights we have paid for under it. Like, just that sounds like legal jargon that clearly is framing their decision in a manner that leads them to some type of court case at some point. And we'll see, you know, how this ends up resulting. but like I think for anybody rooting for TNT to get the rights clear cut, I don't think that's necessarily going to happen. And by the way, I think for people who just want to continue watching inside the NBA,

I don't think you can rule out the fact that like say NBC could offer those four guys a big deal to just simply work out of Atlanta. Everybody could still, you know, work out of Atlanta. Ernie could still live there as he wants to and just happen to do it for NBC instead of for T&T. Or Amazon. Or Amazon for that matter. I don't think it'll be Amazon. I think it's more likely that would be NBC.

I think Amazon would do kind of a new thing, like different people. But maybe. I mean, it could be Amazon too. I just think NBC is more likely based off my combo about that. It's going to be very interesting to see how it all plays out.

But yeah, that does seem like, why now? Right? After they already got it done, it's like, hey, no, it's not our fault that the NBA's because let's say you won the case. So now the NBA, now you're in a partnership where the league doesn't even really want you

as a partner anymore. I know, it just doesn't make any sense, right? It's just, it's all strange. It's all strange. But I think the only thing that any NBA fan truly cares about, nobody has any super loyalty towards a network.

They've loyalty towards the people on that network. It's about inside the NBA. The only thing we care about is inside the NBA being on. Yep. That's it. Same thing with, you know, you know, people who, you know, listen to Bill Simmons when he was the Boston sports guy or read Bill Simmons

and he was the Boston sports guy. It doesn't matter if he's at ESPN or Grant Land or the Ringer. He's still Bill Simmons. That's right. Last thing. You just mentioned Boston sports guy. You went back home, huh? I did go back home. I was in Boston from Wednesday until late last night on Sunday when I flew home on like a semi-red-eye, got back to you made it back home. Air travel has been a debacle, huh? I kind of picked the right days to travel. Did you have to Wednesday and Sunday. But, yeah, I organized a big hang with friends.

We went to see Noah Khan headlining at Fenway Park on Thursday night. Mount Joy, you know, you know, I love Mount Joy. My friends in that band, sensational band, they opened for Noah Khan. We all had a great time Thursday night and we had some good dinners. You know, we had a lot of pizza over a couple days, Boston, you know. Two things. I'm going to stop you. Noah Khan, how good in concert?

Excellent. Great energy. The crowd's crazy. A lot of screaming fans. He's definitely a little bit of a Beatlemania-esque style following there. A lot of teeny bopper girls going crazy over him, singing every lyric to every song. He's got a really passionate fan base. It's kind of interesting with Noah Khan. I don't know how much you know about his backstory. He's been with a big record label, Republic for years now. But then last year was when he really started going super viral because of stick season on TikTok. And for a minute, it felt like Noah Khan might be, you know, viral, viral star. But then his whole album started catching fire.

He gets colab after collab, Olivia Rodrigo, Post Malone and Gracie Abrams, like a bunch of different types of people. Oh, Lana Del Rey, I saw. A did one with them. A lot of people. And now I think he's He's the real deal, man. Like he's got a lot of potential still even moving forward Come out with some more hit records.

When I first saw him, I thought he was Aaron Rogers. He's probably half the height of Aaron Rogers. Is Fenway Park a good place to watch a concert? Terrible. Terrible. Yeah, it's horrible. Why? It's a good place for the...

It's a great place for the vibes. A great place for the vibes. Like especially we had, we were sitting like third base sides, you know, city in the background and, you know, near the green monster. Like it's gorgeous. Visually, it's beautiful. But audio wise, awful. It's one of the worst venues I've ever been to for audio. It was that, it was this bad back in 2009 when I saw Paul McCartney with my dad.

I saw Paul McCartney, who by the way, the opener for Paul McCartney, random. You'll never guess them. Take a guess. Take a guess. Who opened for Paul McCartney, 09 Tor. Santana. Who? MGMT.

No way. MGMT. Seriously. What a random combo, right? MGMT. You know them, Memphis, MGMT. Intra Van Wigarmer. I think at the time, only Oragular Spectacular, their first album was out.

Wow. And so MGMT opened, that's how I first discovered them, was through Paul McCartney. What a wild combo. But all that to say. the sound system at Fenway was terrible then. It's still terrible now. It's not the best place to watch a concert for audio. Snobbs like me,

but it is a great place to watch the show for the vibes. It's a beautiful venue. Noah Khan was at the top of the Green Monster for a couple of songs. The Lumineers came out for one of them that they performed together. Yeah, it was a great show. It was a really great show.

Crowd was great. I had a great time with my friends. It was beautiful, you know, seeing so many of my different. different friends. One of my buddies from high school had a cookout on Saturday with his wife. And on Friday, you know, we had a bunch of good dinners in Boston. I ate way too much to way too much South Shore, Massachusetts bar pizza. Oh, boy. Cape Cod pizza. And we also had a town spa, town spa.

Oh, I sent you about to turn back into Kevin O. Peloton. You're damn right I am. I weighed myself. Let me tell you my weight before the trip. and after the trip. You want to know? No. I'm pulling up the stats. One second.

I got my scale on my phone. Technology these days is incredible. Okay. Before the trip, 209.8. Too heavy, by the way. That's about 15 pounds heavier than I want to be. 209.8 before the trip. After the trip, what do you think I was?

After the trip, Wednesday to Sunday. 209.8. I'll say 212. 3 pounds. 214. Wow. Five pounds? I don't know. Water weight.

A lot of water weight, I know. Water weight, it'll come off. It'll be gone before I know it. I'm going to have a full week of eating healthy, including tonight. Yeah, fire up one of those hot instructors on the Peloton. She's going to motivate you to get it off. Charlotte speaks German. She's beautiful.

Doesn't even speak English. I love her classes. Great music choices. All right. I don't need a, I don't need to hear the Peloton. instructor telling me to pedal faster or anything like that. Yeah, get your fat ass moving. I don't need to hear that.

I get the idea. I know I'm on that bike. We know you ate that bar pizza. Boy, you're going to do a Boston trip with me, Chris, and I'll take you down to, you know, Pembroke for some Goopsies pizza or Stoughton. That is one of the very few huge American cities I have not been to.

Let's do it. Let's do a live mismatch next season in Boston. I'll get booed. for being a trainer and you'll be the hero. And yeah. I didn't need to at some point. Yeah. Let's make it happen. Let's get some pizza in Salt Shore Mass.

Let's do it. I would love to. I do need to. It is certainly one of the cities I truly want to go to. Let's do it. That I have not been to. Thank you to our producer, Sasha Ashall tonight. Wow.

A flash from the past. She broke up with us so many years ago, but they never leave forever, Kevin. No. They always come back. Always ask them for more. So thank you to Sasha for producing this episode. Kevin, I will talk to you soon. Have a good week.