The Mismatch - NBA Trade Rumors Galore: Scoot, Zion, Beal, Dame, LaVine, and More Leading Up to Draft Night

Episode Date: June 16, 2023

After Verno shares his experience broadcasting the 'U.S. Open All-Access,' he and KOC dive into the NBA offseason, starting with next week’s draft (08:22). The guys debate if the Pelicans should trade Zion Williamson for a chance to enter the top of the draft and get Scoot Henderson (16:08). After discussing possible locations for Bradley Beal, the guys discuss the ridiculous comments made by Karl-Anthony Towns on Patrick Beverley’s podcast (32:27). Also, KOC shares what changes he’s made to The Ringer’s NBA Draft Guide (48:56). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out http://theringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Bill Simmons from The Ringer, and this is a podcast called The Rewatchables. We have been doing it. Really since 2017, it started with how much we love the movie Heat. We decided to structure a whole podcast with categories, most rewatchable scene. Who on the movie, Apex Mountain, what age the best? But here's the thing. If you want the full archive, you can hear them only on Spotify for free, by the way. So make sure do follow the rewatchables on Spotify.

Welcome to The Mismatchable. and joining me as he does every Thursday night from the ringer.com. It's Kevin O'Connor, A.K.K.A. Kevin O'Bomber, Kevin O'Climber, Kevin O'Clymouth. Kevin O'Clymer. Kevin O'Clyland. How was your long day broadcasting golf right down the street here in Los Angeles all the way across the country where you're at now in your studio, Chris? How to go? I was in Connecticut, my first time, to Stanford, Connecticut. kit. And it was the first time that I have been on a golf broadcast. Now, again, we're just doing an all-access channel. So it's kind of like a red zone channel for the golf tournament. But I will say

producers are unbelievable. Set is unbelievable. The guys I'm working with are great. And they all made it very, very easy. It's the first time in a long time that I have been incredibly nervous. I was explaining to somebody the other night. I've been doing my local show now for the better part of 20 years. I have been on with you for seven now. And I have done the TV broadcast, pre and post game for Grizzlies games for the better part of a decade. And so pretty much everything that I'm involved in is old hat. You know, you can just pick it up and do it whenever. And it was, it was, very different. And you're going to appreciate this.

You know what was crazy? I actually said this to Johnson Wagner, who's a three-time PGA winner, who's the guy on with me. I said, you know, the reason that once this all started today that it wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it was going to be nerves-wise is honestly because of those live mismatch shows that we did.

Oh. There is something about doing anything in front of a big live audience. I went through this very early in my career where, I don't know if I were talking about this, but I was in radio very early in my career, and I started doing some sales because I thought, hey, the way for them to really value me is for me to be able to, you know, sell some stuff so that they're going to make money off of me, therefore they're really going to value me. And so I started making some sales, you know, just to help out the station and to show my worth. And then I get called into the office one day.

And the boss says to me, he says, hey, Chris, you are so great at sales that we're going to move you over to the sales department. I'm like, no, no, no. I was doing this to help so as a total backfire. So then now I'm moved over to sales. It's very, I'm in my early 20s. Now I am moved over to sales. Now I'm not going to be on the air anymore. And so I end up going into work.

I would put on a suit every day. I would go into work. I would drive in. I'd say, all right, I'm going to go do some sales. And then I would drive straight back to my apartment and I would play Madden all day. And I had like my two or three accounts. And about after like a month and a half, I'm like, I can't live this way.

Not only do I feel guilty because I'm just coming home. I mean, I was amazing at Madden by the end of the month and a half. But I go back and I just left. I didn't have a job. And there was a guy that listened to me who owned a comedy club. And I went and became an emcee at the comedy club for, and I did this for almost a year, doing different comedy shows, opening up for people and whatnot.

And when I was doing that, I then found that to be, once I went back to radio, insanely instructive because you get to see in front of a live audience each and every night, kind of,

but I had not been in front of like a big live audience in so many years until we had just recently done those mismatch shows. And so anything that you're doing when there's, not somebody sitting right in front of you reacting to it while you're putting on a show,

to me becomes a lot easier and a lot more comfortable. And so it was the first time doing this. I kind of told them like, look, I'm not Bob Costas. I'm not Mike Tariko. I don't know what you think you're getting, but I'll do my best. And they've been great and it was fun. You know, it's, if nothing else, I'm going to always get to say I got to do it. Right. I love golf. It's a golf major. You know, that's something that my father, like when I told him, was super excited about and getting to watch, like, the idea that his son was actually going to be part of a broadcast for something like this. It's all, honestly, like, rather surreal to me still. But it's a very long-winded way to say, while I was very nervous, day one, went infinitely better than I thought it could have gone.

And I think that I think by the weekend, I'm probably going to be the king of peacock. That's what I guess. I think they're probably just going to name me king of peacock and let me have free reign on whatever I want to do on peacock. I'll probably own the channel by the time it's all done. Wow. I don't know.

We're bringing the mismatch from Spotify to Peacock? Is that what's going to happen? I mean, could there be a bidding war? You know, we're now in NBA rumor stage, Kevin. We might as well throw our name. I'm kidding. We do need to get to all of these rumors. While the Denver Nuggets did win the championship.

I'm very happy. That's awesome. Thanks, buddy. I mean, look, I'm trying to be like you. It can't be one. TV star on this pod. And it's not evened out. You're tipping the scales to your fame.

And it's like, all right, I've got to, I've got to turn up. I've got to turn up. I've got to get on peacock. Oh, this guy's on Fandall TV. Okay. Watch this. The one difference is you can be a guest on my show. I can't be a guest on your show.

You don't know anything about golf. Nothing. You would be no help. Look, there have been so many rumors. This is when the NBA becomes so much fun. Once the basketball is over, it generates so much interest throughout these summer months because we've got the NBA draft coming up. That is right around the corner.

And then we have free agency. And we also have these trade. read rumors and we start to look at team building and how big time players could end up in different uniforms for next year. And we've got this NBA draft coming up. Let's start with that. Kevin, you and I spoke about this a few months ago when you were putting together your draft guide and then the lottery came out the way it did. We said, look, the only 100% sure. fire thing that is going to happen in this NBA draft is that Victor Wembeiyama is going to go number one to the San Antonio Spurs.

And after that, who knows? Who knows if the team that has the second pick is going to pick second? If the team that has the third pick is going to pick third. And you could even go down the list even further. You go down to four in Houston if they're going to pick four. It seems like literally everything after one is completely up in the air. And while we opined that long ago, it seems as if I'm even more confident of that today, as we are coming so close to this NBA draft, I have no idea who is going to pick two, three, four,

maybe even five by the time the draft comes around. I know you've been talking to a lot of people. What do you think? Still no idea. None at all. We don't even know who will be picking two and three at this point. Charlotte has the second pick. They are working out, Brennan Miller and Scoot Henderson still in the last week.

I know Gavoni reported that Scoot Henderson outperformed Miller and his workout with the Hornets for the number two pick, but they remain at least listening to trade calls. And then the Portland Trailblazers are number three. Their phone is still getting calls. They're still getting rings from New Orleans or teams like Indiana could be sniffing around come draft night. They have multiple first round picks, including the seventh pick they can offer. I mean, like these teams are going to be getting offers for those guys for Scruton Henderson or Brandon Miller. Forward up north, I think Indiana would be more looking at Brandon Miller.

Some of those other teams are more looking at Scoot Henderson. So it's going to be fascinating to see what happens on draft night there because we kind of know the top three prospects in all likelihood will be Victor Webbenyama, then Brennan Miller and Scoot Henderson in some order. But we don't know the teams that will be slotted there. And then after that, for that matter, I mean, Houston at four, Amman Thompson's definitely the favorite there. But Cam Whitmore is somebody whose name has come up in the last week or so.

I had them when I mock there last week. That was more for, you know, not necessarily intel-based reasons, just more so to get a feel of what the board looks like. Now we're at the point where it's intel-based picks and mock drafts. And Whitmore is a name that's popped up there, but who knows? We just don't know at this point, and that's what makes the draft so exciting. There's a lot of times where, let's just say, that's non-negotiable. The team that's got the fourth pick is not moving off the fourth pick.

But in a year like now where you guys, you've got a young core of guys. You sit there and you go, we've got Jalen Green, we've got Jabari, we've got Shengun, we've got Tari Isan. How many more times

are we going to double down on youth? If we could use that fourth pick as an asset, we may be able to build out around these young guys we already have on our roster. And so I don't know where the pick is that's not going to be moved.

That might depend. Chris, that might be able to. depend on what type of intel the rockets are getting from James Hardin or Kyrie Irving. If Hardin makes a commitment to Houston prior to the draft, you know, through back channels tampering, you know what I'm saying. If they get a commitment from Hardin ahead of the draft or if they get a commitment from a Kyrie or whoever it might be, I think you'll see them off of that number four

pick for a Jalen Brown type of player, whether it's Jalen Brown himself or they're just going to offer that pick around with other types of assets. sets, future picks, young players. Because if they know we're getting this guy, let's go for the second guy now. And I think that's something to keep in mind now when it comes to the next week ahead. Just wanted to color of the thought a little bit there.

Well, and on these draft rumors, you mentioned Portland, and there's some reporting out there about Damia Lillard, and that Damian Lillard is possibly expected to stay. it really feels like whatever they do with three is going to determine what happens with Lillard, that if they can flip three in Simons, which is a package that's been rumored out there, and they can start to build out around Damian Lillard, and they can get great value for that, that maybe that is now you're building with Damian Lillard in mind.

If there's nothing out there of great value, if you're not going to be able to use that in order to bring in the requisite amount of talent you would need around him, then maybe you just bail, use three and move Lillard, and you start the rebuild. It feels like that's that package that Portland has that is going to include three wherever it goes, that that is going to determine the future of Damien Lillard. agree. Yeah, I would agree. I think, you know, it's worth considering what the always plugged in, Brian Windhorst said this morning, or maybe it was Wednesday morning, what he said about Damien Lillard, that it's quiet right now. And we haven't heard anything about Damien Lillard being on the move. And I think that speaks to exactly what you're saying, which is it's what happens with Dame is going to depend on what happens draft night with that number three pick. You know, for Portland, I don't think, you know, I just mentioned Jalen Brown in regards.

to Houston. Houston would have actual interest in training for Brown because Emé Adoka has a connection with him. They could feel confident about him resigning. I don't think Portland would feel that with Jalen Brown. I don't think Portland would necessarily feel that with a say Pascal Seacum from Toronto if he were offered to the Blazers. But as Zion Williamson, who is already locked up long term, that's the type of player that the Blazers I would see targeting more so than the guys who are free agents in the next year or so, like Siakum, like Brown. They'd want the longer-term player

who's guaranteed to be part of this next tenure with Damian Lillard, if they even move the number three pick. Well, and this is really fascinating because you mentioned Portland with Zion, and we've always thought that since the lottery

shook out the way that it did, Scoot Henderson, let's just say that that is the team that, or that is the player, that some teams coveted, and they feel like they need to get up to two in order to get him. I have never felt like Scoot Henderson and Lamello ball is a good fit next to each other. I don't think you're ever going to maximize either of those two guys.

I think both those players need the ball in their hands. And I think Scoot Hempel. Lamello would have to buy in big time. Yeah. He just don't buy it. I think they both need the ball in their hands. And I think both of them are all-star level point guards when we're looking up. in a very few years. With that being said, you know, you said Portland, that pick right above them, which is Charlotte, has been connected possibly to the New Orleans Pelicans and the aforementioned Zion

Williamson because of their want to possibly get up and get Scoot Henderson. Mark Stein reported on the situation and said that it has reached a point where the Pelicans, It makes it sound like they're exasperated and that they would consider trading Williamson if it meant moving into the top three of the draft to get Scoot Henderson. That's what he wrote. I heard this week from one well-placed observer who is convinced that the Pelicans would indeed consider dealing Williamson away if it meant they could draft Scoot Henderson, pointing to a rising level of exasperation within the organization regarding Williamson's ongoing availability issues and overall approach. My read at this juncture is that the Pelicans are less inclined to consider trading Brandon Ingram in the same scenario. Brian Winhorse said he doesn't think Williamson's trade value is all that high right now, but that non-guarantees on his contract could possibly make him more appealing.

He said the Pelicans are attempting to move up in the draft to select Scoot Henderson, which means they're almost certainly open to trading away Zion Williamson. I don't think his value is sky high right now, Windhorst said, but he has a contract that protects the Pelicans or whatever team from further injury. It's not fully guaranteed. Obviously, his value in January was a lot higher after another injury-plagued season. And so, man, oh, man, you know, you kind of floated this last episode or a few episodes ago,

and I was like, geez, I never even considered that they would possibly be, trading Zion Williams. Now we're to the point where not only do you have two very well-respected reporters reporting, like, hey, yeah, it has reached that point. You have one saying, you know what? Yeah, they would consider it. But I don't even know how high his value is right now, which is kind of crazy to think. It's almost like, I guess on first blush, I would go, okay, look, I know the guy's been injury-riddled.

But Zion Williamson. Like, of course, if you could get him, you're getting Zion Williamson. But I guess it's just gone so far. And people have so many questions that it's like, the idea that they're wrestling with moving the second pick of the draft or the third pick in the draft to get a guy who looks like when he plays is one of the best players in the entire NBA. every time he played.

One of the 10 bests. The Pelicans had the second best record in the West at one point with Zion looking like an all-NBA guy. And how many times have we said this when he's playing, Keth, whenever we bring up the top 10 thing, I said, look, we line all the NBA players up, but we're going to pick teams,

you ain't getting past 10 before somebody takes Zion Williams. Just not. Yeah. Well, I mean, that's the thing. And I know Stein in that same article over on his on his substack, he wrote how, for the Charlotte side of things, Michael Jordan still owns the team. He hasn't sold yet.

And Zion is a Jordan brand athlete. So Michael Jordan, through his own connections as well, I'm sure he's got strong intel on Zion and a sense of how he would fit into that Charlotte Hornets atmosphere in North Carolina, close to home with Zion being from Carolina. I mean, being close to home isn't always the best thing. in Zion's case, it could be a good thing. But I think from Michael Jordan and the Hornets, that they have a fair amount of intel there.

With Ingram, it is interesting how Stein says that the Pelicans are less inclined to move him. And I get that as well. I don't know what I do if I'm the Pelicans. I don't know. I mean, I'm so split on and I kind of change hour to hour. And I would imagine a lot of the people in that organization feel the same way.

It also does, Kev, can't speak to what they think. Well, I think a lot of that depends on what your level of conviction is on Scoot Henderson. And they know more than anybody about Zion, Chris, too. For sure. But if there's anything we know, we know what level of conviction they must have that Scoot Henderson is going to be a big star in the NBA. If they're even considering it. No, you may not agree with that. But like, if you're even thinking about that.

I know, I know. In regards to a top three pick, and it's not like because they might want somebody there. It's very specific. Everybody says the Pelicans want him. It's Ions played 114 games in four years, Chris. I think it speaks more to that. 114 games, four years. I get it when he plays.

And I think if you were the other team, you would, you'd make every excuse in the world. You'd say, uh, it was that organization. It was where he got drafted. It was he's, and we're going to get him in here and we're going to, you know, we're going to treat him differently than he, then the treatment he has gotten already this season, that there's going to be an expectation about him. And, you know, everything that's going on with his injuries, you remember how strange it's

all been anyway. And these are sometimes the pressures of a small market team not wanting their star to want to be elsewhere. And so I do think it's fair to opine whether or not they drop the hammer on him like maybe another organization would regarding his weight, regarding his rehab, regarding anything. you know, because you're a lot more timid when you're a small market team who's got one of these big stars. It's a criticism that's come across in some ways for Memphis that, you know, there's always a fine line that you walk because you don't want to. In this day and age, every organization, whether it's a big market or small market is worried about their stars level of discontent with the organization. They want everybody to be happy. And maybe there are some things they wish they would have done differently with Zion.

And I think if you were trading for him, you'd convince yourself of that. That like, amen, we'll get him to lose the weight. We'll get him to take his rehab seriously. And God forbid this guy ever stay healthy for an amount of time. He is literally a franchise altering. player and there just aren't many of those in the world. And so I get it. He's only played 114 games.

It's been a sad story thus far. What would you do, Chris? Would you put him on the table for number two? Or let's just say not for not for two necessarily, but for Scoot. Would you put him on the table for Scoot? I would not trade him. I would be tearified. And you're the guy sang the Zion song to me.

I know. For all the Pelicans goofing, you have never heard me say one false word about him as a basketball player. There are very few guys in the over 20 years that I've been going to games that I've ever seen like that. I mean, he might truly be one of one where I saw him some nights where I thought, what the hell are you supposed to do with this guy? Just an absolute force of nature. and I would be terrified that you look back and that this guy becomes, like, there's very few guys that have a chance to become one of the best five players in the league.

He's in that category. I just would not. I would not be able to do it. I wouldn't be able to do it. Not for an unknown. Not for an unknown. Because, yes, he's only played 114 games. But man, if you could ever get him healthy for 65,

he could be the best player on an awesome team. And I love Scoot. It's still, as we know, a question mark. There's no question mark on Zion when he plays. This isn't like a bus situation. Like Greg Oden, you go out there an average 8 and 8 when you play. Every time he plays, he's awesome. Every time he plays.

Like it's not like kind of awesome. Not even like he gets you 16 and 9. He gets you like 28 and 9 on high efficiency. But Chris, not just 28 and 9. He gets you and 5. He's also a playmaker too. High efficiency. Unbelievable.

Yep. He's just too big of a talent. I couldn't do it. Not yet. I couldn't. And it might be too late by the time I would. It depends on the deal. You know, he comes back next year.

He comes back next year and he plays, you know, 30 games. Now you're effed. I get it. I mean, listen, like I said, the horn, the, the pelicans know more about Zion than any of us. And if they feel like his value is indeed depleted, then I would understand. Mariah Mills and then. Who's that? Oh, right.

Yeah, yeah. She knows quite a lot. Very, very intimate details. I don't. Well, maybe not. Maybe not yet. Maybe. Maybe not now.

It's fresh, fresh for her, you know. Still. Still, she's still tweeting to this day. To your point. Yeah, not, but yeah. The Pelicans know more than anybody. And if what they know is extremely troubling, and they,

they don't see him as a hard worker, they think he needs to work harder on his body. Zion thinks he's work, he works hard, but he doesn't. He was like the least hard worker on the team. I don't know, man. It's really tough.

Like, it's such a tough issue there because, like, good as you are and you wouldn't even do it. So I think that says something there about where we're both coming from. There's just not many guys in the world like him. And I'd be so terrified for him to like commit himself, get healthy and fulfill his potential. Because if he ever did fulfill his potential, it's curtains.

He's truly, you and I both agree, one of the best players in the world. world if you could get him to fulfill that potential. And I would still just be so scared that there's time for him to do that. It's not like he's old. No, he's just a kid still. And then the interesting thing from the New Orleans side is they got rid of his favorite coach on the staff, Teresa Weatherspoon. And that was the person who was very close with him. And there were stories written about her being, you know, a nice advisor on the staff to Zion with him.

going through stuff. And then poof, they just got rid of her now. Today that news came out. So I don't know if that says a lot or nothing. But I think it definitely says something that they got rid of her. Zion's favorite coach. So maybe they think it's for the best for Zion if they end up keeping him. That he just has a clean slate entirely.

But the fact they're thinking about it, they should be thinking about it. They may just have this opinion that he's not fulfilling his potential here either way. That's a possibility. In New Orleans, no matter what. Yeah. He needs the first start. It's not going to happen in New Orleans. It's not out of here.

We've tried. We've done it all. There's too much water under the bridge. We can't get this guy to do what we need him to do to become the franchise star that we want him to be. And if he does it somewhere else, we can live with it because it was never going to happen here. for whatever reason. Because the thing is, Chris, we talk about potential, right? And we see the flashes from Zion for 114 games in four years.

But what works against potential is lack of work ethic. Zion checks that box. Lack of conditioning. Zion checks that box. Injury concerns. Zion checks that box. I mean, like that's like a lot of strikes against them for reaching his potential.

Look, Kevin, you go through a fifth season and it's the same that has been the first four, you're never getting the number two pick of the draft for that guy. Hmm. So that's the risk. They just have so much other young talent, too, man. That's why I've been so high on the Pelicans,

aside from Zion and Ingram, you got one of the best defenders in the league in Herb Jones, Trey Murphy, one of the better young players, three-and-d guy, knocks down shots, scores at the rim in a high rate. Dyson Daniels, an up-and-coming guy off their bench, had amazing defensive positions against Luca. This team has so much talent on the roster,

so many quality future picks of value. In some ways, I'm like, yeah, if you can get, if you can kick the can forward with the value of Zion, even if Zion works out with Charlotte or Portland or whoever you trade them to, and you get another great player in your own right, and maybe you get more than just, the two or three pick. Maybe you do end up getting another future asset or a second round pick or something

like that or a player. You have so much other young talent for that player to grow with. It just changes what you are and how you kind of envision this team building out. And I get it. If they're just saying, look, they could convince me, I could listen to it and I'm sure they could make a very persuasive argument that like, yo, we just spent four years. years getting he's holding this hostage like we got to figure out what we're doing and we tried and we tried for four years and it's not taken and so we've got to decide that we cannot allow

this situation to hold us hostage any longer and we can't get him to do what we want him to do we can't get him to rehab like we want him to rehab we can't get him to be monitored like we need him to be monitored and he needs a fresh start and we need to stop making our future plans around this guy we can't do it any longer and i would understand i would understand that i would i understand the exasperation for goodness sake i'm just talking about it's either a lot of easy for me to say that I wouldn't want to do it. I'm not the one that's been held hostage for four years and trying to make my off-season plans every year only to have them foiled by the fact that this guy is unavailable and seemingly

unwilling to work hard to be available. I'd be pissed about that. I get it. I get it. And it's going to be fascinating. It's more likely at this point that we see a Bradley Beale. trade than we do as I on trade with Beal being now

in conversations Miami possibly interested New York possibly interested that like that that feels like something that's far more likely that we see next Thursday then as Ion trade bucks have come up kings have come up

as possible Biel surprises me would you trade Drew Holliday for Bradley Beale uh I actually think, because what I was going to say is, if you could pull off having Brad Beal as your second banana, he has been woefully miscast as the best player on a team.

But if he can be the second best player on the team, now you've got something. And man, if you've got Janice Ante Cumpo and Brad Beal, Yeah, I sure do love the idea of that. I think that that's actually perfect. Like, he's in that terrible spot. Well, I don't know if it's terrible, but he gets paid like the best player on a team,

but you've got to have somebody better than Brad Beale on your team. Okay, we know that. You need to have, he can't be your best player. He could be your second best player, but he can't be your best player. And that's like the perfect situation because there's not that many guys, not a huge list of teams that actually do have a better player than Beal and have a star that he would fit with well. And I do think Beal and Janus would be rather devastating. I agree.

I get this terrible situation with the guys that are having to. run the Wizards now where Tommy Shepard inexplicably gave him a no trade clause. And he's the only player in the league. I mean, not only did they give him $251 million, he's got the no trade. So he has the ability to veto. So now you're hamstringing yourself into what you might be able to move, or a team you might be able to move him to that would give you the best possible return for Beal, where you get to the point of you're dealing with a team that he would okay a deal to.

And that just whittles it down so much. He basically can choose where he wants to go and for how much he goes to that team. I mean, there's a reason nobody gives guys this. Yeah, I know. So if the bucks make an offer that the Wizards are willing to accept, he could very well say, you know what, I want to go to the heat. And then it's over for the Bucks at that point. It's kind of like free agency in a way for Beale where he gets his choice.

For the Buc's side of things, Drew Holliday very quietly. Yes, he's an outstanding defender, one of the best in the world. But in his three years in the playoffs with the Bucks, 40 total games, he's 39.6% from the floor, which includes 45% from 2, 30% from 3. like he has not been a productive score. Those are Eric Baletso-esque numbers in the postseason from Drew Holiday on offense. Bradley Beale would be a significant boost on the offensive end for Milwaukee. Granted, he's not anywhere as good in the same stratosphere as Holiday on defense.

Neither is, you know, the difference is similar for offense with what Beal provides rather than Drew Holiday. And if they build a system that's, you know, that enables Beal as an off-screen guy and a pick and roll guy. You can use him with Janice and Brooke Lopez in so many different ways. And if Middleton can get back healthy, that back court would be so dynamic. They can share ball handling responsibilities,

maybe target a playmaker that you bring off the bench to settle the offense. Because Drew Holiday is not a traditional passer either. They've always kind of done it by committee. I get it, but you brought up the holiday stuff. I'd move off Middleton. That's what I'd try to.

I try to make Beal my Middleton replace. I just don't think, I just don't think that's going to happen. Chris Middleton was in the coaching meetings. He was part of the conversations for who they hired at head coach. I'd be surprised if it were Chris Middleton that gets moved. Drew Holliday himself has already said he's going to retire after this current contract. And whether he sticks to that or not, he does seem like somebody who's potentially going to retire for the 2025 season after 2024, 25. I just think it proved that it's going to be hard.

Again, I guess we don't have the best read on what the new owners would think, but good grief, Kiv. You're going to pay Middleton, what his going rate is going to be once this contract's up, and then you're going to have debt deal contract, and you're going to have the Janus super duper quadruple max. I mean, you can't afford all that. Can't afford all that. Yeah, well, you could, but it's going to restrict you. Not without being second aproned out unless you've just got a bunch of men's around everywhere. Yeah.

You're not affording all three of those guys. That's why you have to make a choice on that. The penalties, you know, some penalties go in this year, some go in next year, some go in the year after. So it's three straight years where the second apron penalties are kind of, you know, layered in. It's not all at once. Like the harshest tax effects go in for the 25-26 season. Next season is when the frozen draft picks happen.

Right. And it's triggered after multiple years. And then this year is where you get the trade restrictions, can't use the mid-level and some other stuff like that. So, yeah, it'd be restrictive still considering the new rule. Yes, that's true. but it is an upgrade. The reason it's being brought up is because of the honest stuff, right?

It's like, hey, we got to give this guy a team he can win the title with. And we got to do it soon. You know, because we don't want to. Pressure on, man. Yeah, with him feeling like he can't win with the roster that we have. You know, you mentioned Miami as a possibility on a Beal thing. Barry Jackson of the Miami Herald suggested he threw out there that maybe there could be a path. And obviously we take a lot of cooperation to where the heat could get Damien Lillard and Bradfield.

I'm not highly unlikely. I'm sitting there reading that. I'm like, well, you're going to pay $200 million from Damian Lillard to Bradfield? Like both of those guys have contracts that you're going to look up and you're paying them a combined $130 million in a couple of years. What? I like my idea much better. Go get Dame or Beal and then Chris Staps, Borzingus. You like that Porzingis to the heat thing.

Yeah, I mean, he just had his best season defending the pick and roll since 2017, 18. He shot the heck out of the ball, 39% on catch-and-shoot threes. We talk about Brooke Lopez. I said it on Tuesday show. There's nobody like Brooke Lopez. If you're looking for the closest thing, it's Chris Staps, Porzingis. and you yourself said, imagine if you could allow BAM to play in a Janus-like role, well, you're not getting Brooke Lopez,

so maybe you get the next best thing and go get Chris Staps for Zingis and roll the dice for the one-year player option for KP. Maybe he stays healthy, and you end up winning the championship, who knows? I just think KP is worth the gamble for some of these teams that don't have a ton of other options. Oh, I've been waiting my whole life to ask you this very question. Your whole life? Would you rather have? Oh, boy.

not really my whole life really since about 10 seconds ago when I thought of it would you rather have Chris Taps for Zingas or Carl Anthony Towns

can I ask a follow-up question before I give the actual answer is this for this one season It's not the way this game works Kevin I don't think Chris Staps for Zingas Wow you really hate Kat now

even though what he did with Pat Bev was more impressive than the Denver Nuggets title, according to him. What, what, what, what were they smoking? Something good. No, I'm serious. Like, what, what, what were they smoking on that pot? He said, they only have the stuff that's come out.

They didn't have long, hey, they didn't have long to throw it all together. That's what's impressive about it. They threw that together. Hey, they made the play in and the eight seed with just, with just having a training camp. Like the nuggets have been around forever. Man, I watched that, and I'll tell you what, I saw the social clip come up first.

It was like 1 a.m. in the morning when I saw it, I was about to get ready to go to bed. And before I did that, I pulled up the YouTube video, because I was like, I get to listen to the context here. What was the question? Like, what set him up to say this? Oh, yeah, for those that don't know what we're talking about,

please explain. It's almost it's hard to believe almost that it's real. But Carl Anthony Towns on Pat Beverly's podcasts. Yes, Patrick Beverly has a podcast if you did not know that. He said the Timberwolves making the 2022 playoffs was more special than the Nuggets winning the championship. And his rationale for that was because they had. like four months to prepare for that, whereas the Nuggets had like four years. And also on that podcast, where he said he will change the game.

Like when his career is over, people will say he changed the game of basketball. I say it again, Chris, what were they smoking on that podcast? I don't, I don't know. Like, I watched that and I'm thinking to myself, if I'm, I'm a Minnesota Timberwolf's executive. I'm like, can we really win with this guy? Can we? Really?

With that type of mindset and approach to the game? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. It's one thing to like do it at the lunch table or do it in a barbershop or do it when you're at the club with your buddies or whatever. He had a microphone in his face on something that is actually going to be broadcasted and said that.

And he totally believed it. Like he said it with conviction that what they did was more special. It's truly unfathomable. Unfathomable. And I don't know what he's, how is he changing the game? I don't know, man. He did say he's better than Dirk Novitsky.

Remember when did that quote a couple years ago or he said he's better, the greatest shooting big man of all time, which is greater than Dirk Novitsky? That was last year he said that. maybe he's just doing like a he's probably listening to those like positive thinking podcast you know like positive affirmation where you like just you just got to say crap in the mirror like every morning and then you start to believe it oh yeah like you know you get up in the morning that he walked to the mirror and you're like I am handsome I am handsome I am handsome and then like you know you start

to believe that you're handsome even though you might look like gargamel or something whereas he just stands there and he looks in the mirror. He goes, we were more impressive than the Nuggets. We were more impressive than the Nuggets. Yeah, we lost to the... I guess it's just all... I'm better than Dirk. I'm better than Dirk.

And he just says it. And then he just starts to believe it. And that's the only thing I can come up with. I'm going to blame some kind of power of positive thinking, something that he've read or listened to, where it, you know, forces you to say things that as cockamamie as they may be, you start to believe. So anyway. Or he smoked incredible amounts of marijuana.

Yeah. Another possibility. Maybe both. Possibly both. Possibly, possibly listening to the pod while drinking or while smoking insane amounts of marijuana. I feel like there that there's a lot of people that smoke a lot of weed that do love podcasts like that.

Yeah, I'm sure there's people listening to our podcast right now, cackling while their edibles are kicking in. We certainly... I still haven't used marijuana since last August, Chris. I haven't called you Kevin O'Cannabis in so long. I think it's going to actually... When I, I'm allowing myself to use, to use weed again on a limited basis when I hit 200 pounds, right? So when I, when I lose 30 pounds, that's what I'm going to allow myself to give the reward of being able to use it like, you know, here and there during the summer.

I don't think I'm going to hit 200 until August would be my prediction. So it might be a year. Oh, come on, Kevin O'Peloton. You'll be there before you know it. No, I think I might, my projection is honest. You'll be there before you know it. late i mean but the thing is it says i'll be on the road in Vegas i got Vegas coming up

don't make excuses then my birthday in late july there's some stuff that's you know even during the playoffs you know i kind of i kind of plateaued which is fine i was maintaining but not losing which is okay i'm happy to maintain but not gain um but i would project late july early august

is when i'll hit 200 so i know i to motivate you Let's just get you booked on that K. Adams show a couple more times. And you'll be $195 before you know it. You don't fool me. Yeah. You're going to be $195, K.F. Get you booked on that K. Adams show on Bay andool TV.

Down to 180 real fast. So start taking that, like, diet shot, you know, the diabetes weight loss thing that people are doing, you know, you saw that? Or whatever. Yeah. Yeah, what is that? I'd be scared to take that. I mean, like, it's medicine for diabetes. It's what your guy Elon Musk took.

He did? Yeah. I know. I'm not going to say their name, but I know I've, I know one person that uses it. And, like, they say, oh, I love it. I love it. It works great. Well, you know that.

I don't know that. I don't know which one he took, but you know, that, you know, that pitcher that was going everywhere with he's like out at the lake with his shirt off or whatever. Somebody brought that. Yeah. And then they asked him how he lost the weight. He did this intermittent fasting and then took that whatever that was. Interesting. Pep type, peptide thing that so many people in Hollywood are taking.

The thing is, like, I've read, you know, if you use it, yes, it helps you drop weight quick, but then you stop using it, your weight comes back. I don't know. And it is Kay Adams. Last thing before we get out of here, do you think Zach Levine is a Chicago Bull next year? That's another name that's being thrown around as possibly a big-time player that could move somewhere, right? I don't know. I mean, look, he's making $40 million this coming season.

He'll be making $49 million. dollars in 26, 27 when he's 31 years old. I just, and by the way, he's also got a 15% trade kicker in the deal, too. I just don't know who's going to make a move for that deal. Last thing. Draft is right around the corner. Anything that, any opinion that you have changed recently or somebody that you have moved up or moved down significantly recently as more Intel

comes in? Anybody that you maybe started to like more, the more you dove into it and the more people you've talked to about what they think about a guy? I think, I think like this is the point where, you know, most of the draft profiles that will post in the guide are made. We're going to add probably a handful more next week,

or it's 63 total profiles in the guide right now. I expect that to get over 65 next week. So most of the profiles that we're going to have are done. I'd say in terms of my rankings, I've kind of moved some guys back to where I had them before, like Noah Clowny, Jet Howard. I've moved them both back into my top 20 after they kind of just slipped out a little bit. Because now you're at the point where you're reevaluating a lot of guys. You're having conversations with people about them getting intel.

But for the most part, I think everybody's generally in the range that they'll be in. I mean, I'll shuffle some things with my big board. next week. Mock draft, I mean, we'll see. Like, this is going to be a weird, a weird draft. Like, I think you're going to see some guys surprisingly go into late teens or 20s and some guys surprisingly drop to the 30s. So I think it's going to be that type of year in terms of the mock drafts with how things result on draft night itself with the actual draft. But my big board, it's pretty pretty set for the most part. Is there anybody you think or you have found that you have a conviction about or you are higher on than most?

I mean, at one point, that was Taylor Hendricks. I think that was the first person or one of the first people that had him in the top 10. Like, a lot of people have moved in that direction now. I don't think there's anybody I have ranked tremendously lower than the consensus right now. Maybe I have Kim Wentworth a little lower than some people. I have him at nine. Some people have him in the top five.

I saw Sam Bacini has him number three on his board, but, you know, three to nine, you know, that's not a dramatic difference in my opinion. But, I mean, maybe Bryce Sensible, I have Sensible 16 on my board. I've played around with having him at 14, 15. He's somebody I've seen others have him in the late 20s. So I think Sensible is a guy out of Ohio State. He's a 6 foot 6 wing. He's a go-to-scorer type guy in college. He didn't play a lot of defense.

except for some games he didn't pass the ball a whole lot either but he's one of the best three-point shooters in the drafts he's a pull-up guy from mid-range with kind of a vintage you know slower-paced style you know it looks like a tj warren type of guy um or like a paul pierce imitator you know what i'm saying like that type of player just to give you a visual for the people who don't know his game so sense of all i like a lot and um i think i probably like him more than the average but i don't for the most part i feel like this year is from the 20 to 40 range. It's more about, you know, to each their own. And I'm sure I have some guys ranked higher than others and vice versa. But, you know, that, that range is all, like, it's a big lump, 25 to 45 or so. But in the top 25, like I said, Bryce Sensible is probably the one that comes to mind first above all everybody else. There is no telling what all is going to happen in the next week and what this NBA draft is going to look like big names that could be moving around, You know, some of the names that we've talked about, Damian Lillard, Zion Williamson, like, who knows? And it's all kind of in connection with the draft.

And so who knows who picks where and who knows what players are possibly moved in conjunction with those picks moving elsewhere. We may just show up in a week and everybody picks where they were going to pick. Yeah, there could be no trades at all. We know this. There's going to be a million room. until then. Oh, boy. We're going to have a lot to talk about.

It's going to be super fun. We'll do it again. We're going to be, what are we going to do next week? We're going to be Monday night again, right? So we'll be doing a Monday night recording and then probably a Friday morning recording, right, is our plan. So we'll do Friday morning after the draft and then we'll sum up all the rumors earlier in the week, Monday night, Tuesday morning. It's going to be a blast.

It will be a fun, fun week. Thank you, our executive producer Jesse Lopez, as always. And Kevin, I will talk to you early next week. Looking forward to it.