The Mismatch - No One Knows What’s Coming in the NBA Draft

Episode Date: June 25, 2024

With the NBA draft this week, Verno and KOC dive into the latest draft news, including the uncertainty around the Hawks and the top overall pick and why people are suddenly high on prospect Zaccharie Risacher (01:48). As the conversation continues for who should be the top overall prospect, KOC shares which players he considers to be the safest prospects at the top of the draft, and Verno breaks down why Reed Sheppard would be a perfect fit with the Grizzlies and why the Rockets are big-name hunting (11:21). Next, they debate whether Ron Holland can be this draft’s GG Jackson and talk about the best shooting prospects in this class, Johnny Furphy’s ceiling, and Verno’s favorite college prospects (24:44). Then, KOC ranks his favorite prospect interviews (47:07). Also, what happens with Bronny James? The guys share what they thought about JJ Redick’s introductory press conference with the Lakers and the Cavs' hiring of Kenny Atkinson as their next head coach. Plus, what Scottie Barnes’s max extension means for the Raptors' future (56:19). You can read KOC’s article mentioned in this episode here, and you can find KOC’s Draft Guide here. Got a question for Verno and KOC? Send them an email at [e-mail]! Or you can send the guys a tweet @ChrisVernonShow and @KevinOConnorNBA! The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Social: Keith Fujimoto Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Y'all, it's the Midnight Boys. Poo-Bee-Boo! And we're opening up the kitchen again to talk about the Bears season three, returning to Hulu on June 27th. That's right, the Midnight Boys are taking over Prestige TV. How you feeling, cousin? Cousin! New restaurant, new takes, new ups, new downs, new season. I'm wearing to go, Chuck.

That's what I'm talking about. Make sure you plug in to the Prestige TV feed. Van and I will be talking about every single episode. of the bear. That's June 27th on the prestige TV feed. Welcome to the mismatch I'm Chris Vernon and join him as he does every Monday night from the ringer.com as Kevin O'Connor, A.K.K.A. Kevin O'Bomber. Kevin O'Compel. Kevin O'Col Kevin O'Candil. Kevin O'Brien. Kevin O'Fierre. Kevin O'Brien.

Oh, how are you doing, man? I saw the Mark Stein report today saying Memphis trained up with nine and three. I don't know. How are you feeling, Chris? I am very looking forward to this NBA draft. I have absolutely no idea what is going to take place in this NBA draft. And frankly, as I read and listen to all people banter about this draft, I feel like nobody does. This is going to be one of those. I mean, we will get to it and we could start at one.

you even wrote in your column that published today in the ringer, the number two on your seven observations was the Atlanta Hawks uncertain draft night plans. Kevin, they're the first pick. So if they are uncertain, I think that tells you how this thing might go. And I'm not certain of the player that they are going to take first. I'm not certain that they are going to take a player with the first overall pick,

and that that's where whoever is drafted number one is going to be playing next year. And so I think that's all we need to know about this year's draft is that you could publish a column today with one of the headlines of it being the Atlanta Hawks' uncertain draft night plan. So let's start there with what is going to be taking place starting Wednesday night for the NBA. draft. What do you think Atlanta's going to do? Who knows? Great. Who knows? I mean, I think with Atlanta, they're still figuring out exactly what they're going to do as well, because Atlanta, whether it's Zachary Riseschet, the 6'8 French forward, or whether it ends up being Donovan Klingan, the 7-2 Yukon Center, or whether it's a trade-down. That's always possible as well. There's been,

someone reported out there earlier last week about how maybe they take Alex Sar, number one, forcing the wizards to trade up to number one in order to get the guy that everybody expects them to take it to. So there's a lot of different ways this could go for Atlanta. I think they're still in a process of figuring out what exactly they're going to do. Now, as I reported in my column on Monday, they also did work out Modus Muzellis, a 6-8 G-League forward on Sunday. that's kind of late in the process to be holding a workout.

They got Bozellus in. So clearly they're turning over every stone here in terms of getting everybody in and they can. They still haven't been able to get sore. So I think for Atlanta, it's going to probably come down to what happens on Wednesday. What type of trade offers are made for that number one pick, if anything. And I'm sure they're going to go in with multiple different plans, whether that's keeping the pick or getting rid of the pick.

and we won't really know until Wednesday. So is the idea behind the SAR thing that better fit opportunity from his camp, they're more comfortable with Washington being the fit for him. Obviously, he'd be there with Bilalculabale, and he would start and probably put up numbers and get on the court rather quickly. I mean, he'd be playing for Washington next year, obviously. I mean, you'd expect that the number one pick will be playing anywhere, but that the opportunity to be a bigger part of a team would happen more quickly in Washington

because it is curious when a guy does not work out for the team that is drafting number one. Usually what happens in situations like this, and obviously, you know, I covered a lot of drafts over the years, went to a lot of different workouts, but I'll give you one perfect example. The year that Memphis took Drew Gooden, and this is so many years ago now, but the best player probably out of that top 10, certainly after the first year or two, was Amari Stadamire. Amari Stadamire never came and worked out.

Amar Stadawire worked out for Phoenix, where everybody in the free world reported he had a promise, and then he worked out for Houston, who had the number one pick and they ended up taking Yao Ming in that draft, right? Just to say, even when somebody is, you know, comfortable with maybe going a little bit lower, they almost always will work out for one, no matter who it is.

So this has always been a curious case with you keep reporting that they haven't even seen Sarr up close and personal and that he hasn't gone there. I mean, I think that's just got to tell us he wants to go to Washington, right? Yeah. I mean, I do think that that is clearly the preference is for SAR to go to Washington.

And I think that is due to, you know, maybe the way they outline their vision for him in the future. It could have to do with the lack of uncertainty with Atlanta right now. Washington's more of a clean slate. Atlanta, like, will Tray Young be there long term? will he not be there long term? Who's actually making the final decisions? The lack of organizational stability with the Hawks right now,

I think might be raising those questions with SARS camp. And that's why you're not seeing him there. And also, maybe it is partially just the, like it's a trend with SAR. I mean, I do think, like, I like SARS as a prospect. He's going to end up in my top five or six with my final board that goes up on Tuesday or Wednesday. but at the same time, like he did, you know,

instead of signing with Real Madrid, a big, you know, international team, he went to overtime elite. Instead of staying in the U.S. after OTE, he ended up going to Australia. So, like, he has chosen the lesser competition sometimes over his history. And by not working out for the number one team,

that does follow that trend over the years. And so perhaps there's something to it there. as well in terms of just the makeup and choosing what is best for you. And that might be avoiding the responsibility and the pressures of being the number one pick, especially for a team in a situation that there is uncertainty there with the Hawks. That's fair. The Risa Shea thing. So I was listening to Gavoni, and obviously I heard you guys talking about him together a few weeks ago. And he's been doing all the rounds and doing all manner of interviews. And he said that the majority of NBA teams that he has talked to

have him number one on their board and that's why he has continued to have him number one on his board. If I were going to say these guys all reach their ceiling, even if you're not a believer in Risa Shea today. He's not the number one picket, even if he reaches the ceiling. If all those guys reach their ceiling, he's not the number one, number one guy.

I think he's the number one guy on a lot of people's boards because he's safe It's the same reason why Klingin might end up number one on my board because it's safe and shepard's high because we know He can shoot the basketball. Yes, exactly like there's there's guys that you're just leaning safe And I think Risa Shea is is safe if he's safe if you believe in his jumper He's safe if you believe Risa She will be a high 30 a low 40s percent three-point shooter because he's already a very good defender. He's great off ball, maybe the best in the draft that from the wing forward spot defending off ball. He's versatile on ball. Like that we know. He plays a role. He's willing to take the back seat like he did all year playing in France this season.

Spot-up, attack closeouts, make the right pass. We know those things about him. So his ceiling would mean, you know, improving a bit as a ball handler. You know, maybe there's like a little Harrison Barnes in there. some 20 point per game seasons and all that, but he's not going to be the number one guy on a roster. And I think if all the guys reach their ceilings, as he's asked him the question, I don't see him being the best player in the draft class. I have Sarr more towards the,

like the, it's like seven to nine range this year. I feel comfortable with him there. I think he's a good prospect. I just, I have a really hard time with him at number one. The Rises She thing, and the interesting thing with him,

It's very, as you were saying that, do you know who popped in my mind was Andrea Bognani? Oh, yeah. Who was the number one pick? Who is good? He's good. He had some good seasons. But it was never like, it's not franchise altering. And it's also not the best guy from the draft, right?

You obviously didn't take the best guy. He didn't end up being the best player from that draft. and this could have a lot of those guys this year. And it's interesting that you say that we're watching teams and we're watching these mock drafts kind of evolve into safety. You know, years ago I used to do that. Here's the five guys I feel like will not fail. And I would just say, look, the draft is a crapshoot.

Just find the guys that are going to have 10-year careers, like that you feel most confident are going to have 10-year careers. And I feel like that is this draft. This draft is guys that you're just trying to find the ones that are going to have careers. Guys that are going to have second contracts in the NBA. Like, and hopefully some of these guys will be able to get, you know, big contracts for their second contract in the NBA. But that with so many question marks that there are very few teams, it feels like, have incredible conviction about guys.

Is that kind of what you've found when you've been searching around for how this draft can play out? Yeah, I mean, obviously, like you talk to people around the league and, you know, they'll say, you know, they don't want to reveal their own boards, right? They don't want to do that.

However, you know, I think a lot of people do admit, like, they're having a hard time determining who's number one as well. I mean, it's like a total crop shoot in that sense this year more than any other. It's really an eye of the beholder. draft. And that's where, like, I wish in the draft guide this year that was reflected in the rankings, because I think depending on your team philosophy and your team needs, that you'd have

different number ones, you'd have different number fives, more than most years. Because, like, I think there's certain teams where you could argue SAR should be number one. There's certain teams, you could argue it should be Klingin. There's certain teams where maybe it is Reed Shepard. So I think this year, like, is very unique in that sense. And that's why there's a certain teams, you could why there's so much uncertainty. I do think the one thing where there is certainty, though, Chris, is I think we have a general idea of, like, who the top six-ish names will be. It's just a matter of in what order, who's picking there, and that's ultimately the question.

And I think, I mean, in some order, we'll see Risa Shea, Sarr, Shepard, Klingin, Bozellas, Castle, probably, you know, get five of those. Feels like Connect might be crashing that party. Well, and Connect could be one of the guys that does. I think T. John Salon is another one. Maybe Cody Williams. Like, there's variables that, but I think those six are the safest six names to say, go in the top six. And that be one Atlanta through six, Charlotte.

But at the same time, like, you know, in the case of Stefan Castle, he hasn't worked out for Charlotte. And they're at number six. So you have, you still have him one. on your big board, right? Well, we'll say how it ends up. I think I'm going to change that. You do? Yeah, I do.

Because I have wondered, I would not, I would not disagree with you if you had a conviction that, look, I'm not sure any of these guys are going to make an all-star team, but if somebody does, that's the guy that could.

If it all came together and he put it all together, Like, that's a five-star guy that could obviously play with other good players on a good team and fit in. And he's got both sides of the court. And shooting is something that can come along. We've seen all manner of guys become much better shooters as they have improved and gotten older and gotten into the league. Not the least of which is Jaylen Brown, no less, right? Who we just watched win.

Of course. Eastern Conference and Finals MVP. Yeah, it can happen over the course of time. Yeah, so if you told me Castle puts it all together, I mean, I can see him being great, right? Yeah, I mean, you could also say, you know, similar about his teammate, Donovan Klingin. You could say, you could say Klingin at a minimum,

Klingin is going to be a very high-level room protector, good rebounder, great screener. You can say his improvement from freshman to sophomore season as a post player indicates that maybe he's going to be much more than just like Catch and Finisher guy, which I believe is the case. Like he improved a lot as a post score. He's shown passing ability kind of out of that middle spot in the paint. So that means he could be a short role playmaker, a guy at the elbows with dribble handoffs.

And then, you know, he sees himself as becoming a guy who's a solid three-point shooter off the catch. And if that's the case... It's hard to be an all-star as that kind of guy, though. Like, you've got to be mega-domic. it like Gobert or you've got to be like, you know, you may make one or two if you're like a Brooke Lopez, right? Sure.

You know, but it's hard. It's tough. You know, to be a role playing center because he's not going to be the focal point of any offense. Oh, I mean, unless the passing is part of, you know, what makes him, I mean, in the draft guide I have in their, you know, comparisons, Rudy Gober and Marcusol, those are like higher end comparisons. But some hybrid of that, that's a really good player.

That's a high-level center in the league because of... The Gober comparison is because of their physical dimensions are so similar. It's the defensive comparison. The Gasol comparison is there because of that passing feel that Klingan has. He's not quite Gassol, but he can do some of the D.HO, you know, facilitating stuff out there. So, you know, since we're bringing him up, I mean, that's the rumor that everybody's been reporting on with Memphis that they could be a team trying to move up for Klingin, whether it's number of three. I know Stein had said that, you know, executives around the league are, you know, saying it's

increasingly probable that they could offer nine and smart for three. I've been told that's not going to happen. Like Memphis has not and will not offer smart and nine for three. It seems like that's just more talk out there that's happening around the league, as Stein kind of said. So I talk around the league. That is Houston wanting that out there because I'm Udoca wants him. I'm sure. I'm sure that might be part of it, for sure. I'm the Udoka connection there.

I mean, it makes sense in theory, but I don't think Houston would reasonably even anticipate that much in return from 9 to 3 this year. So I think Memphis has tried to trade up. I know they've tried to trade up, but for who? Is it actually for Klingin? Is that a smokescreen? I don't know.

All I know is that on paper Klingin makes a hell of a lot. of sense for you guys. The only two guys I could see Memphis trading up for would be Shepard or Klingon. Both of them makes sense. Now with Shepard, tell, like the appeal with Klingin's obvious. You guys need a center. Pair him with Jaron Jackson Jr. You guys can still play fast.

You're still young. He fits with Jha. Everything makes sense. What's the appeal of Reed Shepard for Memphis? You need a third guard, right? You can have another third guard. And if you're losing Kinnard in the off season, the more shooting you can get out there with Morant the better. That's the trick, right? You're opening up space for your stars.

And so you're going to need, you know, they've got three needs, right? They've got to figure out whatever they're going to do with at three. And then they've got to figure out a center and they've got to figure out of a backup point guard. And Shepard is the kind of guy that I think you give the ball to. I agree. All right. Right. And then we're going to, and it's a perfect spot for him to develop as well, right? Because then he's running out there with Gigi Jackson. He's running out there with Brandon Clark. He's running out there with Vince Williams. Like he's he's got good players around him on a second unit. And he can also be a guy that fills in for Des, he can also sub out for Desmond

Bain. He can sub out for all manner of guys, just to space the floor. Everybody needs shooting. And I just think he is such a, he is so good at that particular skill. And when you have any of these teams that have stars on their team want to get the maximum amount of space for those stars. And so being the best shooter in the draft is always going to make you desirable. On the Klingin front, that's the most obvious for sure. You need a center. It's a fit next to Jared Jackson Jr.

I'll tell you this, I do not think Memphis is going to stay at nine. I would be stunned if they stay at nine. I think they will either trade up or they will trade down. But if they just stayed at nine and took the ninth player that comes off the board, I would be, I mean, I would be blown away. I think there's a wide number of teams I think that could try to trade up too. I mean, because this is going to be a year in which somebody's going to slip, right? Well, and there's also teams that want to get out of their pick. Yes. You know, I don't know if you saw that report about the Caruso deal, but saying Sacramento almost had him and it was

a deal that centered around the 13th pick in the draft. This was Anthony Slater and Sam Amick had an article about this, saying kind of, they're big game hunting, they're going big, they want to improve now. They got Brown locked up. They got Malik Munknuk locked up. And now the 13th pick is, quote, very available.

And they thought they had that in a package with. But as you were saying with Houston, Houston, to me, and we talked about this last week, you got enough young guys. Like now you're, That is a valuable, valuable asset.

How can I improve my team with that asset? And is the best way to improve my team with that asset, taking the guy who is available at number three and pairing him up with, I've already got six guys I'm trying to develop as young players on my team. So they say they're going to pick up the team option on J. Sean Tate. They are going to guarantee the contracts of Jeff Green, and they're going to guarantee the contract of who is the other one, Green and Jack Landau.

And the idea there is the reason they're picking up those contracts is so they've got something to put together with that pick for whatever they can attain back from a team. That doesn't mean they won't draft the player in this draft, but I think I'd be a little surprised if Houston took somebody three. I think this is their chance to use that asset. And as we talked about, they've got Thompson, they've got Amin Thompson, they've got Jalen Green, they've got Tari Easton, they've got Jabari Smith Jr., they've got Shengoon, they've got Cam Whitmore. I mean, that's six off the top of my head, Kev, that are in the first three years.

They don't need any more young guys on that team. They've got to kind of balance that thing out. And so I don't think they'll take somebody three. I really don't. I don't know if that's a trade with Memphis. I just think whether they've been rumored to, you know, try to take shots at McHall Bridges and players like that before, you know, but that they're kind of big game hunting as well. So then the draft goes, hey, wire, right?

If three gets moved, now who the hell knows? Sure. I mean, well, that's one of the interesting things about what Gavoni had and his reporting on Monday, A draft express reported that the rockets are big game hunting for guys like Kevin Durant, Jimmy Butler, McKell Bridges, Brennan Engram, I mean, like those are some big names that Gavoni just threw out there as dream targets for Houston. Now, I don't think those guys are necessarily available for the number three pick, but it's intriguing with all the stuff out there about Jimmy Butler, perhaps.

I mean, Howard Beck said something on the ringer last week about how. he believes Butler will be dealt by the heat. So would three for Butler, an old man, you know, and Jimmy Butler in his mid-30s really makes sense for the young rockets? I'm not so sure about that. I think that's a bit rich. Well, no things are stocked up. I just listed six young guys.

Yeah. Any of those six could move. Any of them. You could move Jalen Green. You could move Shengun. You could move. Jabari is the one I would not move. Honestly, like he's the one I for sure would not move.

but any of the other ones, again, there is some, you know, there's some overlap with guys. Certainly at the end of the season, you know, when Shen Goon was out, you saw a different Jalen Green, and I'm still a huge Jabari Smith Jr. believer, but, you know, you could get a really good young player, Tari Yucin or Cam Whitmore or like some of these guys that they've got there, they're not all going to get to play. So if you're looking for a rebuild or you're looking for a return from a star, I think Houston's actually got the goods to get you a return for a star. Don't you? Yeah, they do.

That's why those names are all very interesting, every one of them. The Durant thing is crazy, too, because I have wondered a lot about Durant. There were the reports last year that he wasn't so happy, but I know they just hired Mike Boodenholzer, but I do kind of look at their team. and they're in jail in terms of improving their team. And is anybody there sitting back and going, what are we doing? Are we really going to just run this back? Like, we have no means to get better.

And we're not moving Booker and nobody wants Beal. Like, it would be the obvious thing. If Kevin DeRey got moved this summer, it would not shock me. Would it shock you? It would shock me a little bit. I mean, how else are they getting better? I mean, yeah, I mean, I agree with you. That's why it makes sense.

but at the same time he is Kevin Durant and it is a team that's kind of locked up and it feels like they made such a significant investment in him. It'd be a bit surprising. All right, let's talk about some of these other, once we get to three, it could go haywire.

Of the things, oh, and let me circle back to the Bezellas thing. I think if you went back to your Mott that you made like, you know, after last year, like whatever the off season was. August.

I had Bozell's number one in August. So wouldn't it be crazy? That's what I've been thinking about. I'm like, you know, everybody had Bozellas number one in this draft. Well, not everybody. I mean, not everybody had number one. There wasn't. I'll tell you this,

nobody had no Zachary Rishashe. No, nobody has Rishish. Nobody did. There was a lot of Ron Hollins and a lot of Bezellas is what I remember. Exactly. A lot of Ron Holland, a lot of modest Bishishishah. else, but it was pretty mixed. And I've told you, the Holland thing just intrigues me a lot because I just watched a guy in

G.G. Jackson, who was a number one high school player, get drafted way too low. And it's like, oh, wow. Like, geez, maybe we shouldn't have held the South Carolina thing against him so much. I mean, there's a lot of teams that are kicking themselves for how good he looked last year. And I do wonder if he would have played it out this year. Is he number one in this draft? I think it's a possibility. And the Holland thing to me is he was always considered the best guy amongst these peers. And we went through this a couple of years ago for a different reason with injuries with Michael Porter Jr.

Remember? And it's like, this guy was always considered the best guy amongst his peers. And then obviously his career, I think if you redo that draft, Porter Jr. goes certainly higher than he did in that draft. And so Holland is super intriguing to me. And I do wonder if he's a Crash the Party guy when it's all said and done. He very well could be. I think this year that there could be those guys that, you know,

ooh, I don't know where Ron Holland goes number five, goes number six, something like that. but like I said earlier, I think the six names I mentioned are like the safe bets to go top six. He's not a fair to say that if he went and I go to a lot of those G league games, those are men and those are good players. Yep. That kid and his team suck. But if that kid average 20 playing last year for the Ignite, he would have destroyed college basketball. Like to me, I think Ron Holland made, you know, he should have played in college basketball when I look at these mock drafts. I'm like, bro, if you average 20 there, what the hell would you have done playing for Gonzaga or somebody?

I mean, I guess there's a reason why the G League Ignat have shut down. I mean, both Bozellas and Holland. Yeah. Both their stocks went down. And I do wonder if we've held it against them too much. We might have, yeah. I mean, like, I think I get the final, final, you know, weeks I've been reevaluating my rank. is like, you know, thinking, am I too low on this guy?

Am I too high in this guy? And Ron Holland is one of those guys. I've really looked at a lot. And I think I have him 12 on the public board right now. And I think he's going to end up around like eight or something like that for me. I think that feels appropriate considering the downhill attacking, that relentlessness on defense, the scoring flashes, just the attitude that in charisma he has in the court, and the flashes of shooting ability. He has always been an inefficient as a shooter.

The decision-making needs to improve as a passer, but you're betting on character too with him, and he's always been a hard worker, and I feel like eight-ish is appropriate for Holland, but it's a bet on his shot. That's the thing with a lot of these guys. That's why I'm questioning the placement for Castle. Like, shooting is so important.

It is so important at the highest levels of basketball in the playoffs. and, you know, like, Shepard, like, you feel confident with his shot. Connect, you feel confident with his shot. And that's about it. Like, of the top, like, a resacee, you can feel fairly, you know, confident depending on who you ask.

I don't personally, but there's not a lot of guys in that top ten. Like when you ask Giovanni about it? Yeah, because he shoots a lot. He's willing to take him. Yeah, he's willing to take him. Yeah, but, like, there's not many guys in the top ten where you feel like 100% confident. and what they'll become as a three-point shooter.

That's the most important skill right now. Who are those? Because those have been the guys that have proven. Who do you think are some of the best shooters? Like if I just told you, hey, Kevin, this is your only task. I want you to draft me guys that you think are going to be able to make threes in the NBA. That I'm going to be able to play, like, so they're not going to be rendered unplayable, and they're going to be able to make threes in the NBA.

Because I think this, if we've learned anything, these freaking, you know, Sam Housers of the world end up on NBA courts and we're like, who the hell are you? Yeah. So Reed Shepherd, Dalton Connect, Rob Dillingham, Jared McCain. Those are like some pretty, you know,

strong bets to have successes shooters. If you're looking at guys that don't have the highest three-point percentage, but they feel like good bets, I think you'd be looking at, Nicola Topich, he has like an 80 plus percent free throw percentage. He has not translated it to three yet, but over the course of time, maybe that's a good bet. Bub Carrington, freshman guard out of Pittsburgh. What a name.

I know Bob Carrington. I know I should move him up from the rankings from the name alone. Especially in this crap draft. You should get bonus points for your name. I know. But like he's a great mid-range shooter, good free throw shooter, just hasn't translated it to three yet. So I think those are just some names kind of off the top of my head that makes sense. Baylor Shireman for a late first round draft pick.

Oh, the Creighton guy. Yeah, the Creighton guy. Yeah, that's one for sure. Cam Spencer as a second rounder. That's another one. Jalen Wells, if you want to talk deep sleepers out of Washington State. So there's like good shooters in the draft. And I think some of these guys are names that you can.

Like shooting is so important. So that's why, like, you talk to some teams are like, yeah, Reed Shepherds are, you know, my number one prospect, you know, and you talk to other teams and they're like, yeah, I have Kinect Fifth on my board. And so it's like all like shooting, I think, is so favored. And it's so important. We see that every year in the finals. Every year.

Every year. And so I like, that's where it's like, well, that's what's most important at the highest levels of basketball. Why wouldn't you rank that guy higher? Well, because we just saw one of the things that takes place is offense is, offenses can get wrecked by non-shooting. Defenses can protect you. We have seen, we saw Miami do it and be able to protect guys.

We just saw a team get to the NBA finals that could protect minus defenders. You can scheme it up to where you're, even if you're not a plus defender, you're not unplayable, especially because now. you're asked in many cases to guard the three point line. If you get blown by on drives, obviously it's a problem. But, you know, they could scheme it up in some ways. And then your offense doesn't get wrecked by them just disrespecting and being able to throw to it your best players. Yeah.

Well, I mean, sometimes that's the thing. It's like when you're seeing Sam Hauser defend Luca without help. Yeah. Because sometimes defense, no matter how great your defense is. I mean, I think about how last year, Drew Holiday got completely burned by Jimmy Butler or the year before that. Marcus Smart in the finals by Stefan Curry. I mean, like, you can be a great defender, and offense typically wins if offense is on. Sometimes there's only so much great defense can do.

And like, that's kind of the bet Boston made this year with, I mean, now sometimes I threw multiple bodies at Luca, but occasionally they went single coverage. And they said, okay, Luca, we're just going to bet that you're not going to shoot 60% tonight. And it works. I mean, look, for a series I covered, there's a reason two years ago Memphis was infinitely more successful in their series against the Lakers with Luke Knard on the court than with Dylan Brooks. And Dylan Brooks is the defensive archetype. Yes.

But they wanted him to shoot and Lord knows he did. Well, and that's because, like, good three-point shooting is an amplifying skill. It doesn't just, it's not just an individual skill that's important for the individual player on court. It is something that aids everybody else. It improves driving lanes, which it leads to better at-rim chances, more kick-out opportunities, forces help, creates, you know, side-to-side action with the ball, creates better quality shots when you have more shooters on the court. And that's why I would like my conversation with Tom Aversstro on the draft show on Monday, we talked a little bit about the idea of Reed Shepard to the Spurs. Because, you know, my point to

Tom was, well, if you have Reed Shepard, who shot over 50% from three this year at Kentucky and is one of the best shooting prospects we've ever seen into the draft. And if you pair him with Victor Webbanyama, who's going to be one of the greatest at-room finishes in basketball for the next decade plus, you have these two forces, like where defenses need to worry about that guy outside and then Victor inside. Like talk about gravity. People talk about gravity from three, but there's also gravity at the rim. I think those kind of two opposing forces make Reed Shepard a very appealing choice to me if I'm the Spurs,

including in a trade-up. Of course. I mean, if I'm worried about Houston taking Shepard at three, I might be doing really everything I am to trade up to one or two to get them. Because I don't know, like I think Shepard, like Shepard, I think would be at the top of my board if I'm the Spurs. He really would be. I agree with you.

But not every team, but for the Spurs, hell yeah, man. Like, that's amazing. The more space I can create for when Ben, Yes. Yes. Because of the amplifying effect shooting has, it makes Victor even more valuable. And because of what Victor provides, it would make Shepherd even more valuable. And Victor would also minimize the greatest concerns about Shepherd. Yeah, he's smaller. Maybe he gets attacked. Well, you have Victor Wenyama who pretty much guarantees you're going to have a top 10 defense anytime he's on the floor. It doesn't matter who some of the other guys are out there.

let me ask you about some players that are a little farther down on your mock draft slash big board, okay? Okay. And they've stood out to me for different reasons, right? Either I watched them in college or, well, in this first case, I'll just tell you, I looked up, I saw our buddy Kevin Pelton put out his, like, he just does that stats projection thing. and he just plugs the number into the computer and he's got this database and say whatever you want about it. Like sometimes it can sometimes it has hits and sometimes it has big misses, but the numbers are the numbers, right? It's always interesting to see what the numbers say.

Yeah. And one of the guys that is like in the top five is Johnny Furphy from Kansas. And I was like, what in the world? Okay. Johnny Furphy. He's not high on your board. Furfee's going to end up in my top 25. He is. Yeah, he's going to end up in my top 25.

But I know Pelton had him in his top 10 or top five. It's crazy. Johnny Furphy, huh? Yeah, that's in part because Furphy's so young. Yeah. And he's got size. He's got, you know, shooting ability. He's just so raw.

But again, like, again, we're talking about shooting. He's one of those guys on a list of, oh, yeah, I feel pretty good about Johnny Furphy. becoming a good shooter in the NBA. And so when you factor in the size, you know, 6-8 with shooting ability, you can do a little bit off the dribble, that that explains why he's so high on the analytics models that Pelton has. The Christian Brown thing probably helps him a little, little white guy from Kansas and Translate. I don't know if Grady Dick helps him.

Well, Grady Dick closed the year better than he started it. Yeah, maybe so. And he at least took an iconic photo. Yes. Johnny Furphy. So you think he's going to be in, you know, you know, He's going to end up in your top 25. If I told you Johnny Furphy becomes a eight-man rotation guy in the NBA, is that crazy?

No, no, no. I don't know. Totally. Well, then shit, you could get an eight-man rotation guy to, you know, back half of the first round that you take him. I think there's a lot of eight-man rotation guys in this year's draft. I don't like calling it week. I understand why you do, but I don't think this draft is weak in that sense. Yeah, top end a week.

That's all. Top-end week, yes. Deep. It's pretty strong, I think. Well, I'm going to give you three players that I loved in college. Okay. I loved these guys in college. And you tell me which of them you think is the best bet to translate, okay? Darren Holmes from Dayton.

And I think, you know, he's a five out. To me, he's playable in the NBA. Like, because as much as the NBA likes to play the five-out thing, this guy blocks shots, he gets steals, he can knock down some threes. You know, he even knocked out some threes against Arizona when they were nip-tuck against him in the NCAA tournament. Darren Holmes Dayton, I think he was at 32 on your board. KJ. Simpson at Colorado, you made me watch Colorado for Cody Williams, and I came away loving KJ. Simpson. You remember that? Yeah.

I was like, I'm supposed to be watching this for Kristen De Silva and Cody Williams, but the point guard is unbelievable. 35th on the board. And then my little guy from Houston, God, I loved him. Jamal Shed. I loved him in college. It may not translate. He may just be too little.

But Holmes Simpson Shed. You had him 32, 35, 54. Is shed just too little? Yeah. And like the lack of certainty with his jumper as well. That's why I have him, you know, 20-ish spots lower than the others. Yeah, there's just no, I mean, like, you can count on your hand the number of under six-footers. Yeah, and also there's a lot of those guys that come out every year.

Even with KJ. Simpson, there's a lot of those smaller guards to come out every year where it's less of a commodity that you feel like you need to take. Like, you don't feel like you're not going to get a chance at a guy like that in a year or two. And I think that's where Holmes there's appeal in him as a first-round pick, because this past season at Dayton, he started taking threes with, you know, more consistency. He took 83 attempts from three last year. He made 32 of them. So he shot, you know, almost 40% from three. And, you know, there's a lot of split opinions on Holmes. He's one of those divisive prospects. Like the people who don't believe in him, they say, yeah, he was switchable at Dayton, but he's not quick enough for the NBA. They say, well, he only hit 32, three-pointers. He wasn't.

He doesn't have great touch from the line or other areas of the floor. They don't believe in him as a shooter. They view him as just a theoretical guy that ends up not reaching his potential. He plays hard. Yes, exactly. But then the people who believe in him talk about how he's play hard, how he plays hard, how he improved each season at day and how he added to his game every year. And you're projecting forward and you're believing and betting on the improvement of his jumper.

Because not only does three-point percentage improve every year, his free throw percentage improved every year. So I think with Holmes, he's somebody who he tests the waters last year. He goes back to school and he improved exactly on the things that NBA teams wanted him to improve on. So he's a lot of split opinions on Holmes across the league. I think if it's the nuggets, as have been rumored, that they may have promised him with the 28th pick or whether it's a team like the Bucks, a couple spots higher in the early

20s, I think there's teams in the first round that should make a bet on Dayron Holmes. They should. but he's not a guarantee in my eyes. Oh, that's interesting because there's these words that Portis and Conerton are possibly, you know, going to not be Milwaukee Bucks next year. Or Brooke Lopez. No, but he is a little Bobby Porticey. Yes.

You know what I mean? Like this kind of a kind of dog that plays hard. And I just liked that he was, I watched, you know, even when they got knocked out in the tournament there in that Arizona game, And Arizona team was way more talented to them. He's supposed to be their best player. And he, like, he performed like he's the best player on the team, right? Yes. I thought I liked him a lot.

What about KJ Simpson? Too little? God, I love Tim. You made me watch them, and I'm like, okay, I think that Cody Williams guy doesn't even play. Tristan DeSilva looks weak to me. But this point guard is there for it. He was just, I mean, he's awesome college point guard for sure. Yeah.

I'm bumping him down slightly in my final revision for the board. Damn, as soon as I brought him up, you're going to bump him that. I mean, I mean, it's only to like the early, early mid-40s. And that's because. This may have to be my guy then. I mean, I'm putting him behind some of kind of the rangey forwards. And it's like nothing against him necessarily. I still like K.J. Simpson.

It's just, I think, like, you know, like Larson out of Arizona. I mentioned Jalen Wells earlier, a guy like that, Cam Christie, you know, Mogbo, Ingram, Eginza from France. Like, there's just a number of guys I think are harder to find than small point guard. And so even though Simpson could very well carve out a very good career in the NBA, I just think some of these guys are more worthy bets in the second round because of how hard it is to find those ranging three indie style wings that can do a little bit off the dribble as well. Like, that's hard to find. Like, those are the players that make 25 million plus dollars. KJ Simpson, to be that, you know, a lucrative of a player is going to have to really have, like, a Jalen Brunson trajectory, right?

And so maybe he does. Maybe he does. And, you know, we all, everybody looks up, ends up looking silly that he falls to the 30s or the 40s on draft night. But I think some of those wings are better value bets for teams than the second round. Okay. So this could be the ages. thing too. Maybe KJ. Simpson needs to be my guy, even though I didn't watch him enough, but I did love it when I watched it. He's fun. He's a fun player. You know how you're talking

about how some guys like to take all the challenges. This is one of your knocks on SAR. You know, maybe he doesn't want to always challenge himself the most. Forgive me whoever wrote the article that included this note, because I don't have it written down or I would certainly attribute it to you. And it's not exactly some kind of inside scoop or anything. But it said the kid from UCLA worked out for more teams than

anybody else in this draft. The energy guy. And I can't even remember his name. A dem bona. Yeah. He just line it up. I want to work out against everybody. Yeah. He's moving. He's moving. He's moving. I had him too low. I forget where I had him publicly, but

on my spreadsheet right now, I have him 33. So is he the dog that it appears? He is. He's just like, yes. Do you know how hard? You got to just fly to the next city,

throw on some shoes and go and take on another group of guys, whoever's there for the workout. They said he worked out for more teams than anybody. He was like, line it up. I'll do any workout anytime, anywhere, any court.

And I was like, you know what, man, I'm kind of in love. And I didn't even pull the guy up on YouTube to watch him. I just loved the story. And I was like, you know what? Like, if you're willing to work out of age, whether you can play or not, you're there for it.

You are trying to prove your worth and you ain't scared to anybody. So what do we think on him? Is he a good player? Yeah, he's a good player. He's versatile. He brings defensive versatility. I think in the draft guide, the comp for him is Kavanaughn. No, I don't have that in there.

Actually, I have Montrez-Harrel as a comp in there. Maybe I should put Looney in there. Oh, well, Montres-Harre is actually a fair one. in terms of if you told me who is a guy that would walk to any workout? Montres-Aerlo is like that kind of guy. But he's a great rebounder, great screener, great teammate. Like he's beloved at UCLA. He's got like kind of that locker room team leader potential in terms of leader by example,

vocal guy. So he has all those X-factor, you know, qualities as well on top of just being just that like dirt dog on the floor. He'll dive on the floor. who does all the tough things, he'll take a charge if he needs to. And he's a good at-room finisher. I mean, like, I think with him, he's really the big concern is like free-sferr shooting. But other than that, like, I think he's got all the qualities to be a role player for a long time.

And I think me and you are on the same page, which I don't like, but you did bring him up to me during the year. And the Devin Carter kid, in terms of guy, you're higher on than maybe the consensus. Is that fair? He's going to be in my top six. And yeah, I think Devin Carter is going to be a good player for a long, long, long time in the NBA. I wanted to ask you about all of this draft prep that you've done. You've done all these scouting reports.

I know I'll kind of run together for you. But one of the things that you did that 99% of the media did not get to do is you got to sit in a room with a lot of these top prospects over the course of the last two years and sit down and talk with them. You've been effusive in your praise on Jared McCain from Duke. You walked out of there just loving him as a guy, right? Kind of a student body president, charming kind of type guy, right? It's great, very lovable. Very lovable guy. Of the guys, give me your, I'm going to assume McCain, I've asked you this before,

and you said he was the number one guy, right? Forget basketball. We're not talking about basketball. The three that you thought interviewed the best with you. that you did in this draft. So remove Jared McCain from this? No, no, no. We'll put him number one.

Are Jared McCain number one? So then, okay, then let's make it five, because you've talked to at least, what? You probably talked to 10 guys. Yeah, so let's see, who did I talk to? I talked to Ron Holland, Alex Saar,

Devin Carter, Cody Williams, Modus Bezellas, Bobby Clintman, Jared McCain. I think those seven. I'm not sure if I'm missing anybody. Okay,

then let's not hurt, feelings. Since I gave you McCain, let's just do top four. Who's the next three? I thought Buzellos was really good. He was very open, very fun. Is he two? Well, let's just throw some names out there first. Buzellis was very good. I think Bobby Clinton was fun, energetic. He seems like a really good kid. I like them a lot. I think he definitely genuinely likes basketball as well. Ron Holland, big personality, fun. You know, definitely can tell he's kind of the loudest guy in locker rooms.

Devin Carter would be my number two, though. And Devin Carter would be my number two because he just, it was like talking to a 40-year-old NBA veteran. He is just so smart, so intelligent. And I know the question is about like off-court, but that's what made it impressive. Like he's 22 years old, but it's just such like an advanced mind for his approach to getting better and improving. And I thought he had a very articulate way of explaining something that he got better at working with his coach at Providence, Kim English. He talked about

in the interview on the draft show how improving his two-foot finishing. I saw it watching Brunson. Yes, exactly, watching Brunson and how that completely changed his entire game. He's just, he's a very intelligent player. So Devin Carter would be two in terms of the most impressed me as like a person. I was impressed by that whole. And, Me too. You got so many guys that are watching Brunson now. Yeah. I don't think people understand the impact he is having.

And I am seeing it now, even as I am in junior high and high school gyms. And I am seeing it now with the kids that know their dad ain't 6'5, the way they used to watch Curry is the way they're watching Brunton. How can I score when I drive? and Brunson is the one that everybody's watching. I'm serious. It's pretty cool. It really is.

It is. Scoring with footwork and feel and, you know, misdirection and trickery. Brunson's definitely influential in that sense. So Devin Carter would be number two. Number three, I think number three I would go with Bobby Clinton. I just really liked Bobby. He was just a good kid. Again, this is like non-basketball.

I liked our conversation. He laughed a lot when we talked about music. Like he was just like he's just a good kid. Like I can tell he really likes basketball that he wants to be good. I liked Bobby Clinton. He definitely stood out to me for that reason. I wasn't sure how the interview would go. And he was very open about kind of his past and his journey in basketball, born overseas,

moving around in life. He kind of gave his whole life story. Good, good kid. I liked him a lot. So Bobby Clinton would be three. And then four, Cody Williams. Cody Williams, again, like a lot like his brother. Jaylen Williams with OKC.

Jaylen Williams is more of the bubbly, louder, outgoing one. Cody Williams is a bit more subdued, but, you know, definitely intelligent, definitely loves basketball, clearly watches it, has a lot of interest in it. And yeah, just like Cody Williams, he's just a good kid. It was kind of a good wide range of conversation. So I think those would be the four. Are you comfortable with this list? Jared McCain, Devin Carter, Bobby Clintman.

Cody William. Well, and the question was like, like, just impressed me, you know, the interview. If you drafted them off the interview. I mean, I really like the Bezellas interview, too, though. Well, then make a choice. Make a choice, bro. Let's do the top five and put Bozellis in there as well. The Bozellis interview was great because we talked to on a whole bunch of stuff.

All right, aggregators report. Kevin O'Connor says, SARS going to suck. I'm kidding. There's a language barrier. Even after all these years of you talking about French guys, you can't talk to a Frenchman? Come on.

Surely your boy, Gaubert, who's up. All right, one more draft question before we get to, uh, some of the basketball news. What do you think happens was with Bronny? Second round of the Lakers. You don't, I think somebody jams it up. I really do. I just think there's too many good prospects

in the second round for somebody to mess around. No, there's not. Yeah, there is. No, there's not. Yeah, there is. No, there's not. Yeah, there is. We can't even decide who's going number one.

I know, but that doesn't change the fact there's a lot of good role players that are, that are teams would want to take. But what if it meant his dad might play for you? I don't think it does mean that. It's a thing. It doesn't mean that necessarily, though.

I got it. But is it, if there's a one in four chance, that his dad can play for you? I don't think there's a one in four chance. LeBron himself said years ago, his goal was to play with Brony in the final year of his career.

That was the quote. And overtime, I got misconstrued to... It is. And maybe this will be the final year. Who knows? But I don't think it's a guarantee that he'd go wherever. If I draft him in the first round, I've got him for four years. Yeah.

So if his dad wants to play with him, either I got to trade him or his dad's coming to me. Sure. I may take him nine. Bring that show to Memphis. What did the Grizzlies took Brony James Knight overall. It would be the funniest thing ever. I would love if Brony goes first round. I think it would be great drama.

And I hope he goes first round. I bet he will. If the son's taken him at 22 or something like that, I would love that very much. I'm rooting for that to happen. I bet he will because I think it's a better chance than you do. I think it is better than a one in four chance his dad could play for your franchise. I mean, it's also very possible that that's what Rich Paul is doing.

and saying like, oh, LeBron's backed off this. LeBron doesn't, you know, it's not a priority anymore. They want brawny in the car boat his own lane because. For sure what he's doing. Because they're trying to minimize the chance that any of their non-preferred teams screw around and take them. Absolutely. Oh, they are going to try to direct him.

Oh, for sure they are. Just like any other prospects. For sure. There's a better one or four chance. I think if the sons take him, how fast. fascinating would it be if they sign if they get lebron for bradley beale because beale would happily waive his no trade to go to l i what number of the mads uh second round okay because and then he's mentioned masai and he's mentioned minnesota too but like dallas is interesting because it was over a year ago that bill simmons

talked about lebron going to the mavericks that was so long ago but bill was on that early And like it's still floating around out there. I love that possibility. So just something to keep in mind with Dallas. Oh, no. It's going to be, it's going to be a fun one to keep an eye on. And look, we parlayed that and talking about JJ Reddick's introductory press conference today. What a potty mouth.

Oh, I know. How about him dropping the F, Bob? Multiple times. Yeah. I saw one of the clips, Polinka had like a little face on. I wonder if Palinca didn't approve of the potty mouth. The idea was, like, he was asked a question about what misconceptions do you want to prove wrong, like things that are out there, criticisms. I don't give an F.

Yeah, which 100% means you give an F. I know. It always does. It always means that you do. I don't give an F never means you really don't give an F because you gave an F enough to say. I don't give an hour. Like, I think that,

look, I totally believe that he's going to have his, you know, head down, trying to make them better and trying to, good luck trying to convince those maniacs and LeBron's fan base to trust the process, because that was the,

you know, it's about getting better every day. And you have to stop caring about results. And I totally, totally believe in this. Those are great self-help books. I love when people

espouse those things. I follow all manner of motivational accounts. And I hear this type of stuff all the time. And I believe in it and love the application of it. But results

are what people talk about. They're not No one is going on first take to talk about your process of getting better. I get that it matters to you, but it is a lot different when you are in that kind of a bubble with that level of attention where every game you play is going to be dissected. Every game. It is very hard to just stay insulated from everything that is being said in all manner of questions that you're going to get every night. And so I hope that, you know, maybe it's setting a precedent by saying I don't give an F on opening night, you know, with your opening press coverage. Because when our boy, Johan Buba, you know, is asking why Tarine Prince played 33 minutes or why Austin Reeves has been struggling recently, like you can't.

I mean, like, there's a, there's a, there's a politics that are played. and maybe you won't play the politics. I don't know, but it's going to be, it's going to be fascinating to see the way it plays out because I do wonder if, I mean, the first time he was asked about criticism. And this is a guy that's dealt with criticism, his whole life, his whole career.

He was one of the most hated players in Duke history. And, you know, I got it. That was the answer that stuck out to me, Chris. Like, when he talked about the experience aspect, he's like, you know, I feel like I've been, I haven't coached in the NBA, obviously, but he says, ever since I was at Duke playing for Coach K, my experience began.

All the years in the NBA, the years is a broadcaster talking with coaches and meetings for broadcast meetings and talking with people around the league and learning from them. He's like, I feel like it all prepared me to become an NBA head coach. And you're 100% right about he's one of the most hated college basketball players of all time. He's been dealing with this since he was a teenager. So I do think he's equipped to deal with some of that. with the Lakers, where even if he actually does care, even if he is sensitive to it and hears it

and knows about it, clearly it hasn't necessarily derailed him off the path over the years from having great success. And so I think the actions and the results there for J.J. Redick definitely speak loudly about what he's done in his career and what he could do with the Lakers. Thick skin for sure, also probably driven by that type of stuff. But you saw the reaction. You saw the reaction as soon as he was, that kind of stuff was brought up. He didn't play nice about it. No. Right.

He wants you to know because he's on the other side of it now. He's not the media member. And no more podcast. He said no more old man in the three. No, he's done with podcasting for now. What was the word he used excommunicated? Yeah. From the content business.

Yeah. It's going to be a fascinating thing to watch play out. You and I both had our say, on it when he was first hired. And I don't think either of us were overly negative about it. But I told you it's the politics of the job. And for right now, look, you're going to win the press conference and all the

Lakers fans are going to be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, good. He doesn't give an F. But like, you lose a game. You're convincing that fan base and the LeBron fan base that it's a process and we're going to keep getting better or whatever. And it's just really hard. It's really hard to tampa. it down. It's a hard job to have. It's a hard, it's a hard gig.

Cleveland got a new head coach, not that hard of a gig, probably. And Shams is reporting that they've got optimism or there's growing optimism that they're going to get this extension with Donovan Mitchell done. They hired Kenny Atkinson, who I think you and I are both a fan of. Certainly, you and I were doing this podcast long enough to remember when the Brooklyn Nets were the most fun young team in the NBA. They were dancing on the sidelines and Jared Dudley and that whole crew. That team was legitimately fun. Yeah.

And they played a fun style of play to moving the ball around, you know, could Democratic offense sharing the ball. It was a great fun team that Kenny Ackinson. So obviously had great chemistry, you know? Yeah. So I've wanted other teams to hire Kenny Agginson. I think Kenny Aginson, I liked what he did with that team. Me too.

and probably got a raw deal with the KD Nets. Oh, for sure he did. I mean, I think that whole situation was screwed up where, like, Katie and Karee insisted on DeAndre Jordan joining the team, and that cuts into Jared Allen's minutes, and Alan ends up getting traded. Like, the whole thing was a mess with. Yes, that whole thing, that whole thing was a mess, though, with the Nets. I think you can forgive that final year with him in Brooklyn and look more at what he did

from a player developmental standpoint with the Nets, but then also in the years with the Warriors, He's done a good job there as an assistant under Steve Kerr. So I'm glad Kenny Ackins got another opportunity. I think it's well deserved and a very good hire for the Cavaliers. Yeah, we say thumbs up to the Cavs on that one. And then the other one is that Scotty Barnes got his max extension. He turns 23 on August 1st, had a great statistical season, 20 points, 8 rebounds, six assists, get some steals and blocks, 34% from three.

You know, it feels like this is just like par for the course, right? You're an all-star slash fringe all-star, and you're going to get this kind of max extension. And I don't think Scotty Barnes is the best player on a great team. But Scottie Barnes is probably the second best player on a great team. Is that fair? Yeah, second best player. He can be the second best player. I mean, I think you, if you're the Raptors, you have to pay him.

You don't really have a choice. Sure. But it's a hell of a lot of money when he still has room to grow. And so I think further after you hope that he continues ascending air and he takes another step forward. He's, you know, an all-star last season as a replacement guy. But you hope he continues on that trajectory and he could be well worth it in the years to come. Well, when you think about it this way, Kev, what is he in four years? Yeah, that's exactly what you're paying for.

You're paying for future projected future production. He's 27 years old and he could be just an absolute end-to-end monster. Exactly. And four years, exactly. By the end of that deal or the middle of the deal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. By the middle of that deal, he could be. And so you got to do what you got to do.

I don't think there was ever a question that they would lock him up. And so he got his money. This is going to be a fun NBA draft week to say the least because we are going to have two days of it, March on Wednesday night and then Thursday afternoon will be the second round. And Lord knows, look, I bet the NBA is hoping that Brody is not drafted night one. Oh, I know because they want to take the drama into night too. Buddy. I mean, everybody would then be tuning into a second round that nobody wants to tune into.

Right? Like the second round has always been like the one that people like kind of, all right, I'll find out who was taken tomorrow. and then they just go to bed. This being like in the afternoon, and they're doing it in the afternoon because the presidential debate, I guess, is that night. But this being in the afternoon, people would actually watch it

if Bronte James is still on the board for round two. Yep. So the NBA is probably hoping that he's not taken in that first round. But man, this could get fun starting pick number one. Because I really don't know. It will be fun starting pick number one. that's what it's going to start out. It's going to be fun right off the bat.

I'm really excited for this drafts. I think even though there's no clear cut number one and no clear cut number two or three or four or five, that's kind of what makes it super exciting. And I think we're going to get some surprises on Wednesday night. There's no way around that. And then there's going to be some guys of the 24 players that have green room invites that might slip into the second round.

And that's drama in and of itself leading it to date too. And I think, you know, for us, This week, you know. Did he see Edie turned it down? Yeah, because he's got to be watching with his teammates and coaches and family. So he's not going. I don't like it. You don't like it?

No. You don't like it? I love seeing the guys walk across the stage, get the hat to do the terrible interview. He wants to be with his family. I got to. I just like that. I like the walking across. Oh, yeah, yeah.

I feel you. Shaking Adam Silver's hand and then going and doing the awful interview and it all being so awkward. Yeah, yeah, for sure. I feel you, no doubt about it. I mean, I like when they do all that, too, but I respect it from his perspective and doing what he's doing. Yeah, it's hard to walk through doorways for your 7-14. Yeah, I know, it's tough. Probably uncomfortable. I bet bang your head, get a concussion, Fab Mello style. All right. R-I-P-Mello. Oh, it's right. I know. I know. Jeez, Ken. I know, but it's a good story. When did he die? I'm not sure, maybe five years ago or something like that. Too soon. I know, but it's a funny story.

It's from his days of the Celtics. Oh, I thought you meant that he's dead. No. That's hitting his head on the... That's not how he died, right? All right, let's get out of here before we get in trouble. All right. Well, we're going to be recording.

So, draft show, on the draft show, we're going to be doing Wednesday night and Thursday night. And then you and I, I think we're going to record either Thursday night, Friday morning, for our full draft recap show. We'll figure it out. We're going to figure it out. But, yeah. Who you doing the draft show with?

Wednesday night will be Kyle, man, and Thursday night will be Kyle and Tate Frazier. Oh, who cares? You're going to be doing your, you got Tony Allen in on Tuesday for your local? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, man. I'm going to, and then I'm hosting a draft party at like a casino. Yeah, I was going to ask you, you're doing anything special Wednesday.

Oh, yeah, it's going to be a big draft party. Oh, so you're hosting. Big to do in Memphis. Oh, yeah. And maybe they'll trade up, but maybe it'll be wild. What are you going to do? No, I'm not wearing anything cool. Not a cool puff pink puffy jacket or anything like that.

No, I probably should though, since it's the NBA draft. Maybe I will. You know, and maybe I'll put on some glasses. You know what? Do you remember, let me see if they're over here. I might have them. Do you remember when Dylan Brooks did the, I poke bears or whatever? Yeah.

Like I poke bears, like the whole, like LeBron thing or whatever. Bro. These are the glasses. These are actually his. Those are actually his? The ones he's wearing in the, yes. You turn your head a little bit so I can see the sides. They're off white.

Those are actually his? These are the ones he was wearing. And he gave him to you? Hell no, he didn't give him to me. He stole him from the locker room. No, my co-worker, my co-worker Kelsey Wright Johnson had them. Uh-huh.

And then she let me wear him for the master's updates this year. And I never gave him back. So Dylan gave him to her. Yeah. Well, they're friends. They're from Canada. Yeah, that's true. They're both Canadian.

Yeah. She does a good job on the sideline doing Grizzly's games. Yep. And your show as well. She's on your show. Not every day, but a lot of days. Look at this. These off the Dylan Brooks shades.

She's. Maybe I'll wear these for the draft. I don't know. And maybe we'll make a deal with Houston. Wouldn't that be? That'd be cool. Come back around. Just not for Dylan Brooks.

You don't want him back. No. No. Shout out to Doug. All right. Kevin, it's always a pleasure. Thank you to our executive producer, Jesse Lopez, as always. I will talk to you.

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