The Mismatch - Pacers Force Game 7, Lakers Sell for $10B, and an NBA Draft Sneak Peek

Episode Date: June 20, 2025

The Pacers take Game 6 and force a Game 7 back in OKC, so Verno and Jacoby discuss the Pacers' dominant performance and their expectations for the first Game 7 in the Finals since 2016. They discuss the performances by T.J. McConnell, Obi Toppin, and Tyrese Haliburton; the difference a small-market home crowd makes; which Thunder players they trust to perform; and their overall excitement for a decisive Game 7. Next, the guys discuss the impact of the Lakers being sold, the expected extension of Ime Udoka (and the unexpected extension of Billy Donovan), what’s going on with prospect Ace Bailey, and more on next week’s draft. (0:00) Welcome to The Mismatch!(0:54) Pacers Force Game 7: 108-91(28:34) Game 7: Pacers vs. Thunder [-8.5](51:31) Lakers Sell For $10 Billion(54:27) Expect NBA Expansion Teams This Summer?(57:26) Ime Udoka and Billy Donovan Sign Contract Extensions(59:25) NBA Draft Preview(1:11:54) Game 7 Picks Leave us a message on our Mismatch Voicemail line! [phone] Visit creditkarma.com or download the app today. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Chris Vernon and David JacobyProducers: Jessie Lopez and Tucker TashjianSocial: Keith Fujimoto Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon and joining me to this every week from The Ringer.com. It's Dave Jacoby. Jacoby. Verno. What did I just watch? I love doing these immediate reaction pods because I'm going to be honest. And I know you did the same thing. Today during the day, don't lie into a microphone.

You did a little prep just in case the Thunder won the championship. Not even one second. No, I did some prep. I was ready to like, where does this? mean historically what are their contracts like what who are the threats next year like there's a part of me that was like that they could have a celebration at center court tonight in indiana and what i never even considered it never even considered no you're a liar we talked about this on monday night and in the words of the great justin beber i'm standing on business um you're

attributing that to justin beber you haven't seen that video that was going around when he yelled of the paparazzi this week. Oh, I didn't see it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what he's saying. They've already made a remix. Don't yell at the paparazzi celebrity. Just don't do it.

Here's what I'll say. He was at the beach, bro. I'm at the beach, bro. That's what I can say it. All right, look, you and I both said on Monday night, we think this is going seven games. Oh, yeah.

I never, I thought it was going seven games. Like, that's been the ebb and flow of this series. Was there a moment when, when Shams reports kept getting worse about Tyrese Halliburton that it gave me cause for pause, as I'd say. Sure. Because it was like, this is a multi-week injury. He shouldn't be playing.

You know, it was very Aaron Gordon-esque. And then we saw Aaron Gordon and it was like, yeah, he probably shouldn't have tried to play on that. I'll say this to that point, though, is you and I went on right. after game five and said he didn't look hobbled. And then the report of the injury comes out and you're like, hey, man, it was right after the game. I was kind of feeling what I feel. But he didn't look hobbled. Like he played.

He shot shots at the end of the game. He drove at the end of the game. Like he didn't look like he was struggling through an injury at the end of the game. So I felt pretty confident that not only would he play, that he would play with effectiveness. Oh, he was great. And it started out, you know, by the time they got to halftime and they had blown up that lead. It was a 34 to 33 game, and then the Pacers went on a 30 to 9 run to close the half and ended up going into halftime up 64 to 42. And at that point, Tyrese Halliburton had

12 points and 4 assists and was a plus 25 in the game. And it showed, right? Like it was one of those times where the plus minus equals what you're watching on the court, which is, when he's been out there, they have been trucking this team. And that first half told the story because it started off where they couldn't make a shot. They missed like the first eight shots of the game. I want to talk about the very beginning of the game. Yeah. Like the first four minutes, Halliburton had two field goal attempts, missed them.

And I forgot what the exact score was. It was like 10 to 2. And they didn't, I don't think the Pacers didn't get a field goal. I have my note somewhere. They didn't have like a field goal for the first five minutes. First four minutes of the game. Yeah. And I'm sitting there watching the game being like, I guess I am going to see Larry O'Brien.

Well, but I did, I text you during that and I said, look, they've got the energy and they've got the effort and they're causing these turnovers and they're not turning the ball over. The shots will eventually fall. And not only did the shots eventually fall, I mean, it was an absolute tsunami for them. This episode is presented by Intuit Credit Karma. Navigate the world of credit cards with Credit Karma's tailored recommendations. It's suitable for anyone interested in taking control of their financial journey with cutting edge technology. Start at credit karma.com to find cards that fit your financial lifestyle. Credit karma, finding the right card for you.

Nobody on the Thunder just to, because this game was really decided in that first half, okay? So that's why I'm going to talk about the first half, because the second half, it's almost useless to analyze. I mean, they're up by 20. 22 going into halftime, and then they pushed that up to 28 soon after the third quarter began. But in the first half, nobody had more than four for Oklahoma City outside of Shea and Jay Will. And their whole bench had three points. Wiggins hit a three. That was it.

The Pacers, meanwhile, had the T.J. McConnell 11-minute tsunami, and they had the Obie topping shots, and they had 19 points off their bench. Like the things that we talked about that needed to be done, which is win the depth, when the depth score, win the three point line by a large margin, which in the first half, the Pacers hit nine threes,

Oklahoma City hit one. All right? And then Oklahoma City had three assists total in the first half. Wait, what? their baskets. They had three assists. Wait, what? And they had 12 turnovers. Are you sure?

Yes. They had 14 assists for the game. They had three assists and 12 turnovers in the first half. Also, and this is the craziest one, they had zero steals. The Oklahoma City Thunder did not steal the ball one time in the entire first half of this game. In fact, I marked it. The first live ball turnover that the Pacers committed was with 630 left in the third quarter. Well, they had a call in a second.

But they weren't live ball, they were dead ball. Right. That's incredible versus that team. Like, truly incredible. Meanwhile, in the first half, Pacers 13 assists, they had eight steals of their own. And they only turned it over twice in the whole first. half. I mean, they just dominated it.

They dominated them in that first half, and then the rest was obviously elementary. We'll talk about game seven in a second, but this was just inconceivable to me, to quote both of our favorite movies, Princess Bride. Like, I just, if

you would have told me this is how it was going to play out this morning, I just wouldn't believe it. Because I make the mistake of like reading all the stuff, listening to all the stuff, And like consuming all the media coming into the game. And I will say this, though, is there's a few things that we've been consistent about, right? It is the old cliche that role players play better at home.

And they just do. And it was so evident. Obie Toppin hit like, what, two threes, his first two threes of the game, T.J. McConnell. When I said you can't win a championship on the back of T.J. McCona, I might be wrong. I might be wrong. They could have subbed in T.J. McConnell's dad in the first half and he would hit two threes. Like, it was wild. It's crazy.

For anybody that, like, didn't watch it, it is hard to, it's hard to put into words how devastating he was in those 11 minutes. He had nine rebounds. Nine rebounds. He also, but he was also like the steel and then the kick out to OB, topping for a three after they had just scored. He's going to the basket. He's breaking down Kendrick Williams off the dribble and hitting like a little fade away at his elbow.

He's like, and the crowd is just going absolutely bonkers for the guy. And you can see this entire collective level of energy in the whole building go up. I mean, it's like, he becomes honestly, that that 11 minutes he played in the first Taft was unbelievable. Unbelievable. I don't know if you saw this. They asked Tyrese Halliburton about him after the game. And listen, I'm not going to sit here and talk race on an NBA podcast, but he was like,

we call him the Great White Hope. It is. He's a little white guy dominating a finals game, six an elimination game. Like, I'm not afraid to talk about race. Like, we have a little tiny white guy dominating a finals game. You still see it. that often. You know what I mean?

It's just like, what are we doing? Like on ESP? No, you know what do you see it? On ESPN classic. Yeah. John Halmache.

Yeah, the game's in 1962. The game was played in 1962. And he has that kind of a game. Like those dribble under the basket and then dribble away from the basket and shoot a turnaround. Like it was, there was not a single.

One of the things that really rocked me. mentally was the end of the third quarter. I forget who was. Shepard hit a three. And it was 90 to 60. And I was like, wait a second. I was like, the Thunder have 60 points.

Well, okay. After three quarters of basketball. Let's just say this. That's the crazy thing. Okay. The crazy thing is that that was the lowest scoring output. There are a lot of worse of, which is crazy to think about. Game six elimination.

Right. You have a chance to win the championship and the Thunder played their worst offensive game through three quarters pointwise. They had their most turnovers of any game they've played all year. They've played over 100 games, Jacoby. And when you look at the schedule, there's certain games where it's like,

oh, we have an L.A. game on Wednesday. And then we fly to Minnesota for Thursday. like there's certain schedule games where it's like we're not going to perform that well we're not going to be their best like there's like there's like four or five games a year that's schedule losses like we're not going to do it it's impossible like the human body can't perform given the schedule constraints and this game is their worst after two days of rest because it's all built up on this do they have the killer instinct to get this done do they have and like they decided tomorrow morning no i'm saying they decidedly did not and now they're playing a dangerous game. They're playing a dangerous game relying on a game seven. Because, and in fact, you know, we probably buried the lead. Jacobi, we don't get game seven to the NBA finals. Like, the last time, the last time we had one of these?

No. It was the 3 to 1 LeBron series. No. Yes, it was. 2016. That's the last game seven. that we have had. Do you know how many times I've watched that game?

It's the favorite games to rewatch. During COVID, I watched that game like three times. When I went back and looked at it, you know, here's an aside from all the things we're talking about tonight. Okay. So I go and look at this 2016. That's a, because, of course, that's a reference point. Last time we had a game seven was 2016 when it was the 3-1 lead that the Warriors

blew and the Cavaliers won the title, right? And so I go back and you look at that game seven. And it's one of those times that obviously, you know, chase, chase down by James, right, blocked by James, you know, you remember,

everybody remembers. Of course. Okay. What nobody remembers, what nobody remembers is go pull up that box score. Traymond Green. Bro, he had 30.

The game is life. 32, 15, and nine. Oh, I got a sides about that game too. Honestly, He is in five for five from three in the first half. He was unstoppable.

That would be like the greatest finals line for a game seven. You could ever have. I wonder what if Iguadala doesn't get blocked. I wonder how differently the world looks at Freibon. Not only that, it's one of the best playoff performances I've seen. There's two other things about that game. We'll get back to it tonight's game, whatever, is they're so exhausted. And this might come into play on Sunday night.

We talk about the Kyrie 3. We talk about the chase down. But we don't talk about just how exhausted these human beings were in the fourth quarter of that game. Because I've rewatched it during COVID just for like funsies because there's nothing happening. Like they're exhausted. And another thing that no one talks about is this. LeBron James was so close to literally dunking on Dremont as a dagger dunk on Dremont. He just didn't finish it.

He got fouled. He was in line to hit his shots. But he was like, he rose up chest to chest in the air and almost like top three player of all time dunking on Draymond Green to win the title. I mean, you would replay that for ever. So the point is that's the last time that we have had a game seven. Obviously, it's a fact. Now, look, I'll go back and I'll list these off to you. These are the ones that you will remember because it's been, this is how rare they are.

So in 2016 we had one. 2013 is one that everybody doesn't remember, but it was heat and spurs, and that's the LeBron win when the heat beat the spurs in 2013. Everybody remembers game six. Game six is the game seven in everyone's mind. In everyone's mind, game six was game seven. Yeah. The 86 Red Sox is the same thing. The Bill Buckner game was game six.

It wasn't game seven. 2010, the Celtics and the Lakers, and the Celtics were up three, two, and lost six and That was a, it does a blowout though, right? If I remember right, didn't they lose that by like 30? Yeah. And then you have to go all the way back to 2005. Really? And that's Piston Spurs.

How about this, Game 7? 81 to 74. How gross is that? 81 to 74 game seven, the Spurs win the title. And then the 94 Rockets were down three to two to the Knicks. and came back in one game six and seven to win that one. But it's pretty rare, man. I'm surprised.

If you were to ask, if you were to ask me, how many game seven NBA finals have we had in the last, what, 40 years? No, that's, yeah,

I went back. So if you're talking 94 rockets, that's 30 years. And I listed one, two, three, four, five,

five. Wow. Five. Five. This is, Sunday night's going to be special. But let's talk about tonight a little bit. I want to talk about, so here's a question that happened for you.

Well, no, I've got one for you here. There's a little fun fact. So we started Monday show talking about Jalen Williams 40, right? And I told you how rare that is. Also rare Jalen Williams minus 40 tonight. I saw that. Oh, the irony. You know I hate, I hate single game plus minus and you know that.

Oh, the irony. He was minus 40. But when you want. watch the game, it's not like, oh, Jalen Williams didn't show up. Literally, no one for the Thunder showed up. No one did. And it,

all right, I'll save that question for later. Here's the question I have for you that was going through my mind the whole time. I'm like, are the Pacers playing great defense? Or are the Thunder just not present? Did they just not show up for the game? Look, this has not been a thing.

in NBA playoffs and maybe even NBA finals as of the last several years. But it's one of the things that we talked about going into this that I believed would be true and absolutely has been, is that when you get two small market teams and especially teams that have not been in this spot, the home crowd is going to make a profound difference on the level of play. from the home team. And I believe that with all of my heart. You watch that tonight and you watch those games in Oklahoma City. And it is not like what we have seen in some of these others, right? And again, we've talked about it. There's more blue collar people. The tickets, you're right? It's not New York and Boston where you can't get into the games and you're having to spend, you know, a grand just to get a seat

upstairs or whatever else. It's $600, Verno. Sorry, sorry. But whatever, for a single. Like, these are like families of four that are going and cheering together and have been to all the games all season. Right. Like there is a, there is a, you know, these fans are so into it. They have lived and died with their teams. They don't have as much going on, right?

Like, this is the team that they have fallen in love with and they're there. And it's a lot of the fans that are probably. probably been there the entire season that are the ones that are in the stands. And I do think that I think that you see the you see the tide rise for both of these teams in response to their crowds. When they went on that 30 to 9 run, I mean, that place was an absolute Hornet's nest. A Hornet, you can't hear yourself think in these arenas. I will say, Indiana and Oklahoma City. Yeah, Oklahoma City too.

huge ovation for both of these cities. You both have just totally shown out in these finals. And your teams have responded to that, right? They have responded to that in a massive, massive way. And so, look, I mean, that's Oklahoma City's going to have people cheering for them on Saturday. And I'd imagine that place is going to be the Hornets Nest of all Hornets Nest. So it's not going to be easy for Indiana to be able to go in there and be able to win a title. but this tonight, this was a pitiful showing by Oklahoma City.

It really was. It really was. It wasn't just they got beat. That was a humiliation. But I also, I really was wrestling the whole time because I know we're doing the pot after the game. I'm like, is this the Pacers playing great? Oh, I thought they played great. No, I thought the Pacers played great.

I thought, you know, the same way that we talked about in game five, where it was like this combination of, this was not a good showing for Indiana. But I thought Oklahoma City obviously getting a 40-point game out of Jaila Williams and getting those Kaysan Wallace threes and getting those Aaron Wiggins threes. We were like, this is, you're getting the full Monty on the Oklahoma City side and Indiana played like crap. And I do think.

Not a single thunder played well tonight. No, and I think that was true. And every PACER did exactly. did exactly what you asked them to do. Except for Matherin. I would say Matherin. Oh, and Miles Turner. Yeah, Miles Turner too.

Yeah, but like it didn't matter. And I did feel a little bit like the gum churer, Dr. Bubblegum was outcoached a little bit. Oh. I feel like Mr. Bubba gum, the gum churer. It was interesting when they came out and you saw Siakobal

on Jailin Williams. You're right? Like that was kind of wild. It was like, oh, okay, this is the guy that had 40. Now we're going to put it like, you know, and you kept seeing different stuff being thrown at them. And obviously, I just thought this was, this is kind of what I expected in terms of the energy and effort that you are going to see from the home team.

And look, everybody always says this. It's like backs against the wall, you know, one team's got their backs against the wall. And we're going to find out. don't want their season to end. And the other team, no matter what you say, no matter what you talk about, no matter what pregame speech you give them, in the end, it's not life or death. It's just not. Yes.

They've got another game and it's at home in their home arena. And I don't care what you try to do psychologically to your team. Whereas those Indiana guys, this has to be the game of their life. life or else it's over. It's over. There's a finality to that. They don't get to win the championship. They don't, like, their offseason starts tonight.

And I will say, like, we have seen that throughout the playoffs. Like some of these teams, it's more depressing when you're feeble in your last game. As sorry as my team was this year, you go back and look. Oh, game three. No, but they lost game four by two. Oh, and game four was, yeah, they play well. say a couple things I want to say about this one is I think you can

make that statement and if you didn't watch the game you didn't see how it started because the thunder started hot and the Pacers did not have a field goal back against the wall they got good shots. Yeah but knowing you could end your season you're looking up that they called a timeout early Carlisle call a time out early and you're just

like there's no momentum the crowd was so excited they've been thinking about this game all day long they showed up an hour before tip off and they just did like it started slow for the Pacers, which makes what happened after that so much more impressive for me. But there's some key points that I want to make about this game.

That Halliburton Steel spinning pass to the Siakum, right? For the dunk. Like that was, that was like, if you really are hobbled, if your right cap is not feeling well, you don't put that little extra hot sauce on there.

He's a little, put a little Texas Pete on there, put a little tapetio on that one. And then I was just like, when I saw that, I was like, oh, we're, oh, we're cooking. Like, the patients are cooking tonight. Like, I am super impressed with you with the Texas Pete. Do they have that up north? Oh, I'm a hot sauce guy. I've got, I've got 20 hot sauces at my house.

Oh, I matched my hot sauces to the ethnicity of the food that I am eating. Texas Pete's used to be a big sponsor of SEC football when I, when I first came to the south. And you would watch, they would call the Jefferson Pilot game, right? the first SEC game of the day would be on your local channel on Jefferson Pilot. They had these three announcers called The Three Dave's. But it was brought to you by Texas Pete. It's good stuff. And I always thought it was hilarious.

And now, it was like them, Texas Pete and Golden Flake, golden flake potato chips. And it was like these, that's the only reason I'm mentioning this, because it was like these decidedly Southern things that you were like, what? The game's brought to you by Texas pizza hot sauce. Okay. If I'm eating Mexican, it's Tapitio. If I'm eating southern, it's Louisiana. If I'm eating, I have an Old Bay hot sauce, which is fantastic.

People don't even know about Old Bay hot sauce. It's fantastic. And if I've got some really good Caribbean hot sauces, if I'm eating Caribbean food, my wife's Jamaican. There you go. I match the hot sauce to the ethnicity of the food. Other things I want to mention. Yeah.

Oh, no, no, no. That's not, don't push past Halliburton. You want to stand hot sauce? You want to stay on hot sauce? No, is Halliburton hurt? Yes, but he's not, he's not injured. He's hurt. There's a difference.

He's not injured. He's hurt. Did that look like a guy who would be out for multiple weeks? Bro, we said it in the last podcast. We were like, he doesn't look hobbled. We said it. Like, I watch him play the basketball game. I'm just asking, did they play possum with this?

I think it's a little bit of, was it? built up a little more than it. His performance in game five was so bad that you kind of want to put it out there that there's a reason it was so bad aside from the fact that I've been

saying this since the beginning of the playoffs. He's an up and down guy. I know. I don't think he was great tonight. He had some big shots. But look, dude, groins, calves, hamstrings, those soft tissue things, they're usually debilitating. Especially if they're multi-

week. We watched Aaron Gordon play game seven, bro. Did that, you try, you saw OG and Anobi try to go out there from game seven last year. All right. Did that look like those guys? There's levels to it. And also, I saw a ball go out of bounds, insignificant play in the game. The ball's on the baseline. It's going out of bounds. And he's hustling for it and reaches for it and tries to save it and throw it to a teammate. When I saw that, I was like, there's no way you do that if you feel like you're risking injury. There's no way. It was it was, it was sort of like an extra effort play that did not affect the game or the possession. When I saw that, I was like, oh, he's fine.

And it also might be worse for like, I know this sounds crazy, but for like the Uber fast Twitch guys, right? Like that are, I'm talking about that are running a jump. Like the Aaron Gordon's, his soft tissue injury is, is much harder to deal with than a guy that moves and plays like howl. Oh, did you see some of stuff on social today? He's not an explosive player. The algorithm is giving me tons of like NBA finals content because it's like listening to everything I say or whatever.

And it's just like I saw like some doctors be like he shouldn't play. He's risking injury. Oh, Kevin Durant had a calf problem that turned to an Achilles. Oh, he probably shouldn't play. This is this could be a real problem, whatever. I was in there being like, he's never been to the finals before. It's an elimination game at home. Like that man is going to, he's going to suit up and play on the court.

Whether he's, you know, what level of injury he has or hurt he has, we'll find out. He was really good. But he looked good. And I also felt like he missed his first couple, which I didn't love. But once he started hitting shots, that is a rising tide that floats all the pacist boats. They're like, oh, our guy is here. You know what I mean? Like, he hit a deep three.

It was actually like a bad shot. It was a bad shot. He hit like a Gaines, what's it called, Gainesbridge Fieldhouse. He had his foot right next to the G and hit a three in the first half. And he hit that. You could feel the crowd and the band. and everyone just be like, all right, Tyrese is here.

And I have to say something. I think I like Tyrese Halliburton. Oh, he's won you over. I think I like him now. You like him? I hated him a month ago. That's because he's playing the Knicks. He was him a month ago.

No, before the Knicks. From last season, I hated him. Yeah. But man, he's won me over. Do you know what else he saw? I was shocked when I watched the Goldsbury video. I love those graphics that they're using. Shout to anyone who works on that.

But the fact that he hasn't made a field goal from the left side of the court through five games of the finals blew my mind. Also never goes to the free throw line. It was so funny when he went. That was his first point tonight. On the weird like Hartenstein line of scrimmage play the doors per installment to start the game. It was weird.

But like, then he's because he's online. You know he's online. He saw that video. He was like, I got to go left a couple times tonight. And I think he made like I want to call like a lefty floater going to his left and looked at the announcing booth. He knows. He's he's

cognizant of everything's going on. He listens to the mismatch twice every episode. I hope so. He does. I hope so too. All right. So now we've got to get to game seven. Did this humiliation change your mind at all

about the way seven can play out? I loved the fact that Rick Carlisle called a timeout with like six minutes left in the game. And I don't have the details in front of me. I took notes, but I kind of stopped taking notes after three quarters. I was like, this is over. But it was like six minutes left in the game. It was like a 24 point lead. And like the pace was going to like a four nothing rolling.

Carlisle was like, nope, nope. I'm not letting you guys go on a 10-0 run. I'm not letting you guys go on an 80 run. I'm not letting I'm not letting Dylan Jones get a bucket. and he's like, we're going to blow you out tonight. This is not going to be one of those. We had a 30-point lead, but we win by 14 games. And I felt like that was very intentional from someone who has coached in the league for a quarter century being like, we're going to walk in that building with our heads high.

And everybody's going to feel good when they lace up their sneakers before game seven. Who do you trust more in a game seven on Sunday? I'm not going to predict it right now. but there's been a distinct pattern in this series that the home teams role players have played better. And Caruso, did Caruso Dord play tonight? They suited up, right? I didn't see the injury report. Did they, they played, right?

Lou Dord had made one shot. Chet Holgren, four points. Yeah, yeah, four points. Lou Dord, one for five. Alice Caruso, O for two. He took two shots. like none of this makes any sense game sevens get

hey hey here's what I'm saying game sevens get tight too it's a wild car game it's a wild car game there is a pattern but patterns get broken in game sevens and I've told you that I doubt and I have been the only one doubting young teams being able to do this I guess look if they do it this is the highest

pressurized situation right they pass the test in the Denver game, right, by winning that game seven. Oh, yeah. But, I mean, they did. They passed that test. And that's how they ended up in the NBA finals. Obviously, there was no challenge for them against Minnesota.

But now we're back to a game seven, and it's like, who's going to step up this time around? And is that stage, are those lights, which group of these guys do you? trust more in that spot. It's hard to say. I mean, look, you don't know how, this is why game sevens are amazing. You don't know how everybody's going to react. You don't know

how everybody's going to react. Because it's not another game. It's for sure. I think you make a good point. When I say there's been a pattern that's been set, when you put the two words game seven, I think that all of that goes out the window. All of it. It all of it goes out all of it. And it's not like

the basis. How can you not be, how can you not be tense in a game seven. I mean, how? I'll say a couple things I saw tonight that will inform game seven. I think that the Pacers have started to sort of like look at SGA's

habits and they're starting to really catch on to the patterns. Like the same way that even Dora said tonight, because everybody saw the Halliburton Kurt Goldsbury video, which I absolutely love. Like I blew my mind. absolutely blew my mind. I'm like, this man's only shooting from one half of the court.

Like, he's using 25% of the court to score. Like, it blew my mind. But I think that everyone's been watching SGA pull up from 16, or sorry, 18 to 12 feet all season long. And the Paisers were ready for it tonight. I can't tell you how many times I saw, well, Siakam switched on to him or Nemhard on him. And they're like, we got a guy behind us if you're going to the rack,

but we're not going to let you score from mid-bram. range. And they didn't block a bunch of shots on SGA, but man, they made everything so tightly contested and didn't foul. And it does feel like that's something I have my eye on for game seven. I've got to see, you know, I have not, obviously we're recording this right after the game ended. So I have not pulled up what the line for game seven is. You want to take a crack at it before I pull it up? Guess the lines? Guess the lines is a very popular. Except you're the rare. Understood.

Thunder minus four and a half. Eight and a half. What? Points? Yes. Eight and a half? Eight and a half. That's live right now.

Yep. That's the number. On the Fandle sports book. That's a lot of Jacoby line value right there. You said four and a half. I mean, they scored 60 points in three quarters. It should be a war. and then it's who's going to deliver.

Like if this is, if a seven is a blowout, I will just be absolutely floored. I didn't think, you didn't think this was going to be a blowout? Maybe not a blowout, but I did think the Pacers were going to beat them. I just, again, these teams had proven to be not that,

like, we said this after game three. After game three. After game two. I predicted every game right. since game two. I don't know, but I'm saying after game three, we watched that game. And then we watched even game four.

And we were like, we have been treating this like Indiana is the massive underdog because Vegas told us that they were a massive underdog. But when you watched the games, it did not. Once Indiana won that game without winning the three point line, without winning the turnover battle, without winning the free throw battle. It was like, oh, these teams are even. Like, these teams are not far off from each other.

This is not one team that's got to be perfect. Look, the analysis coming into the series was they're going to have to win this three point line by a huge margin. And they're going to need to keep the turnovers anemically low. And basically, the idea was the Pacers were going to have to be perfect to even have a chance versus the Thunder and that's just not

how this is played out at all at all. One thing that, and again, like, you've been wrong about the Thunder for a couple series.

I thought the Pacers would lose to the Caps. I thought the Pacers would lose to the Knicks. Like, I've been wrong so many times. Like, I'm wrong all the time. But we did,

when we did the pod, I texted you before the pod before the finals. And I was like, let's try to make a case for the Pacer. because everything you read, everything you heard was Thunder, Thunder, Thunder. And one of the things that we said was,

if they can't shoot and hit threes, it's going to be a problem for the Thunder. And in the games they've lost, especially tonight, because I think they ended up with like six, but when it mattered, they had two. Well,

and the other, it says eight for 30 tonight. But man, when it mattered, they had two. But the other case that I made, two i made two cases one was carlyle guys been our coached the gung chur he's been but he's been a great coach for decades now

and has won an NBA finals and has been in a myriad of situations versus a myriad of star players and teams right if you are going to trust somebody to be able to come up with a game plan for your team rick carlyleow is at the very top of the list we all agree on that the second thing was And I said this. I remember using the old adage of Greg Popovich, where Greg Popovich, you know, was lamenting what the NBA had become. And he said, just show me what the three point line.

Who won the three point line? And I'll tell you who won the game, right? That's what basketball is now. These teams have not played that way at all. In fact, we had one game four with three, three-pointers. We also had another game where the two teams combined for less threes than what Boston takes in a game. I think it was 39.

I think the patients took 22 and the thurns took 17 if I'm on top of my head. And Boston would take 50. Yeah. In the first half. Okay. In the quarter. So look, the other thing was, but when I brought up that stat,

I said that's not the one. It's not going to be the three point line as much, even though they do need to win that. It's going to be that over and over and over again. We have heard that a fifth, in between a fifth and a fourth of the total points that the Oklahoma City Thunder score in games is off of turnovers. That is a very, very high percentage. And that percentage was even applicable in the playoffs. That was not just something they did during the regular season.

It carried over and proved to be true where I believe. it was 24% of the points that they had scored were points off of turnovers. And so it was, if you tell me that Indiana, again, that number does not have to be, you don't have to get it down to zero, like the choices are not, but what if 10% of their points could come off turnovers? Because you're knocking off a huge chunk of scoring, a huge chunk of scoring. if you could just get that down. And then you've seen a couple of these games, i.e.

two of the ones that have taken place in Indiana recently where that turnover thing has switched. Oh, but the active defensive steals of blocks team, the Pacers have been doing that to Oklahoma City. And Oklahoma City, I just told you, they didn't have a live ball turnover until 630. If you tell me that Indiana's not going to turn the ball over a lot in game seven, they'll win game seven.

They'll win if they keep their turnovers low. End of story. Not only that. They've had 20 turnovers in halves. There's a difference between turnovers and points off turnovers. Correct. I'm old enough to remember game one. They had 20 turnovers in the first half.

And that turned into like eight points. Yeah, exactly. It's like. And also game five, the first half they did, it's 17, but it led to a bunch of points. So it's not necessarily just whether they turn the ball over or not is what happens after those. And tonight, the Pacers were scoring after the turnover. They were. Well, and then when that game was decided, five, no, no, no.

When four, no, five, when five was decided. Yeah, that was under convincing win. and and well, pacer's were in the mix there and then they turned it over four straight times. Oh, yeah, like straight possessions. Yeah, they got it to within two and then, yeah. It was a two-point game with 830 left. Yeah.

And then you think about the way they lost it. Turn over, turn over, turnover, turnover. I mean, it's a disaster, an absolute disaster. So if you tell me Indiana takes care of the ball, I mean, that has been, that has, that has borne itself out, right? when they have taken care of the ball, they have been the winning team. When they have not taken care of the ball,

it's wildly in Oklahoma City's favor. Except for game one. You look back at these series. As a Knicks fan, I'm like, man, game one, this guy hit six threes. Like, knee-smith. But that was a weird circumstance because you said, as you said,

they didn't score off them. Yeah. They didn't take care of the ball, but it wasn't a punishment. And it wasn't even like, but these other games, they have gotten punished for it. I mean, like 30 points off turnovers. What was the one?

It was one of the games. Was it the last game? I think it was the last game. It's like 30 points off turnovers or something. Yeah. But I think I'm so excited for Sunday night for a few reasons is because you just don't know. So here's what happens. And I'm not, listen, I've played in zero NBA basketball games.

I've played in zero NBA finals games, but there's got to be a different feeling in the locker room. In both locker rooms, when you know the Larry O'Brien trophy is there, you know that there's goggles, champagne, beer. You know that someone on the staff has made some arrangements for flights and clubs after the game.

And you just know that, like, there's a possibility that tonight is the best night of your life. And it just has to make, like, we're all human beings. We, like, they just have to know what is at stake. Both locker rooms. And I think that that affected the game. You just, you can't deny it.

You can be Bill Belichick and say, oh, another game. We're prepared one, one possession at a time. We're trying to win every possession. Like, you can say all the right things into a microphone. But at some point, when you're walking the arena and you see the guy with the box of goggles, you're like, maybe those will be on my head in three hours, four hours. it has to bleed into your psyche as a human being. And I feel like that affected the thunder tonight.

Wouldn't you think Carlisle is better at handling that? What, then Dr. Bubblegum? Yeah. Yeah. I would. And I think that I don't think coaching is going to really affect Game 7 as much. But I think I always say this, and I was wrong tonight. I think you have to kind of like start strong.

And the Pacers didn't start strong. Won the game. You know? And I could see it happening just like game won. Didn't start strong. Won the game. The Pacers at this point seem to have more, um,

better response to adversity. Why could that be, Bruno? Can't think of anything? Nothing comes in mind. Nothing comes to mind. Look, we're down to one game. We're down to one game. One game.

I got one last chance to say the history of the NBA told us that a team this young can't win. I got one chance left. It's literally never happened before at once or something. I think there's like one team in like the 70s that was like as young as this. No, they're younger than them. It was the Bill Walton, trailblazers. Oh yeah. That's a super fun team. Yeah.

You and I were literally fetuses when it happened. Who's a fetus now? Who's a fetus now? Oh, I hated to see him not have the killer instinct. I did. I mean, that's a tough scar to take.

It did it felt like in that second quarter just got away from him. And I can't believe Oh, you thought so when T.J. McConnell was. T.J. McCannell. I said, I can't believe it's T.J. McConnell. And Obie Top, but when they were on a 30 to nine run, you thought it kind of got away from them? It's Obitow. There was a chance from the crowd for both of those gentlemen.

Both of them. I mean, and we're only, we're only, what, 24 hours or no, we're only 12 hours removed from Jalen Williams is the next Scotty Pippen. Oh, and Scotty Pippin said he's the next Scotty Pippin. I heard people talk about 12s. 12 hours. 12 hours. Minus, he went from 40 points of minus 40. 12 hours ago, we had Jaila Williams.

In fact, I thought, I didn't even think they were going to make him play out the rest of his career. I thought next All-Star weekend, they were just going to give him his jacket and induct him into Springfield. I think they should. You know? But instead, they made him play to not. In fact, it's kind of ridiculous that they made it play tonight after he was 40 in the last game. Oh, and does anybody gone minus 40 in a finals game or is that a record too? No, that's not a record.

I'm sure there's been some. But I also want to say this. It's hard to go minus 40, bro. Is someone who's been escaping a lot of criticism who's been dodging it like Neo in the Matrix? Chad Holmgren. Like that when Isaiah Hartstein threw him the lob? Because he's played 80 NBA games, bro. Whatever.

No, not whatever. We got to give him a little bit of a break. Doris Burke, I mean, I tell you this, Doris goes crazy over every Jet Homegren move he makes. He made two baskets tonight. I know, but she loved them both. But that, when Hartishine threw him that lob, it was right there. It was a perfect pass. Like, that's the play.

That's the plan. He was wide open. There was no defenders around him. In a close-out game in the NBA finals, he missed it done. Come on. They didn't treat that like a close-out game. Their level of defensive activity was so much worse than Indiana. Indiana was flying.

Flying around. I think it was, I'm trying to think. It was that, remember that game five in Houston with the Warriors? It felt a little bit like that where there was kind of like, eh. Playing with their food. We'll go back to the bay and win game six. It had a little bit of that. that feeling. A little bit of that. They're like,

I've got another one. They did the audio from Shay. Hey, hey, and by the way, that was a extremely dangerous game to play. And next thing you knew, the Warriors were having to win a game seven on that plane. They were getting back on that plane. Yeah, counting on that, especially

when it's a game seven, all the pressure, all the lights, all the attention, all the everything. And it's just 48 minutes for the rest of your life. It's like, jeez, this, I mean, it's lot. It's a lot. They played the audio from Shea. Like, whatever they call it.

I don't know what they're miced up or whatever it is. And he was like, all the marbles. Game set, all the marbles. And then in the post game, they asked Halliburton about it. And he was like, all the cards on the table. And I got goosebumps. I got goosebumps. I got goosebumps.

I can't wait. I can't wait. I can't wait. That is going to be perfect. I might have to get a hotel room. You know what? family doesn't bother me. I think I might do it.

Bravo to them. Bravo to both of these teams. Yes. This has been a great NBA finals. Oh, well, because I, it's unlike,

you won't admit it, you're lying into a microphone right now, but I was preparing for this to be a championship Thursday night. What do you mean I'm lying into a microphone? You said you're like, no, I didn't prep for a second for the thunder to win tonight. No,

I didn't even cross my mind. I, here, look, anybody can see my notebook. Hold on. Let me get it in front of the camera. What does I say?

I can't read anything from that. Learn how to write. God, don't show that again. That's embarrassing. My mom. It's embarrassing. Every time I write anything, my mom is still mortified. Mine is like that too, and my sons is like,

mine's worse than yours. You know what's crazy? I take notes digitally and print them out. What are you doing, dude? And you know what's wild? So I do write like this, and half the time I can't even read what I wrote. It's that bad. Hey, because I, because so.

Some of the letters are in cursive and some of them are in, like, print. And so, but the crazy thing is my mom is always mortified every time she sees my writing. And she's like, how is that even, how is that even possible? Right. Because my mom, like, I'm not kidding. She's one of those people that, like, she could have written, like, the Declaration of Independence. Oh, yeah. I've a daughter like that.

Yeah. Her penmanship is unbelievable and a source of pride. and then she has this like honestly borderline special kid with the with the with the handwriting I mean mine is I mean it's bad but anyways the point was my illegible writing

is all past game sevens so don't tell me I prepared for a fucking thunder win well you do that in the third quarter you did that in the third quarter you do that in the third quarter no no but my point was not about your hand by you. I didn't even prepare for the Thunder to win because they're too young. I thought it. They're too young.

It can't be. I was, here's what happened to me is I was thinking, I was like, all right, well, this is going to be the end of the season. Like,

I got to get some thoughts together. And one of my thoughts was, these playoffs have been fantastic. Oh, because I'm locked in, last year, last years were horrible too. I know,

yeah, by comparison, great point. Like, maybe that's a little bit of recency bias, but like the first round, whatever. No, no, it's kind of whatever.

It was no. Nick Sixers is the only good series from last year. Honestly. I'm trying to think. Every other series stung. No. It's stung. Denver, Minnesota.

Fine. It was fine. But. Denver blew it in game seven. It was shocking. It was a shocking result. Yes. It was a shocking result.

But yeah, but two series out top of my head. Like the finals were so disappointing last year. And I just think this year there's been. I thought the Pacers were going to, I thought they'd get boat raced by the Cavs. It was the opposite. Honestly, I thought the Knicks were going to get boat raced by the Celtics.

Opposite. I thought the, I thought the Clippers were going to beat the Nuggets. And that was Route 1. I know. Dude, these playoffs have been great. Top to bottom. They have been great.

And we get a game seven on Sunday. We have a pod Monday night to talk about it. All right. A few other things we got to mention. Lakers got sold. Just move you at all? It's a big price tech. I love basketball.

I'm not a big like finance business guy. You know what I mean? Like it's like it's like I love the I love watching basketball on my television. But I'm not like that into like the machinations of what happens behind the scenes. But I think there is something to be said for a mom and pop organization going to a conglomerate that involves like Middle Eastern oil money and like. And I think that you can spend, it's a salary cap sport, but you can spend outside of that that can't improve your team. And I think that with Luca, the Luca trade and LeBron,

and this transaction, it's just the Lakers are not going to falter for another decade. It is kind of crazy to have news about the Celtics and the Lakers, the two most premier franchises, the winningest franchises, and we had to talk about both of them. over the course of the last six months, you know, being moved in sales. And honestly, like, you remember when Glenn Taylor tried to sabotage the deal he had made with Arod? Yes. And it was like, now you realize, like, bro, you got robbed.

Like, no wonder he was trying to sabotage it, because no matter what you want to say about the price of these teams. And obviously, Minnesota is nowhere at the level of, like, the self-ticture. The Lakers. Not apples to apples, yeah. But bro, you got robbed for your team. It's also, I watched the winning time. He just took a bad deal, brother. Didn't you love winning time?

Like, I love winning time. Like, John C. Riley as, that's what's called, right? HBO show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That John C. Riley as Cherry Bus, because, like, yeah, I'm a basketball fan. I know a little bit about the history of the Lakers franchise, whatever, but I don't know the ins and outs. I didn't know he was, like, broke and, like, scratching and clawing to get money together. like me trying to buy a dime bag in eighth grade

and he's trying to buy the Lakers. You know what I mean? It's just like what are you doing, dude? Rally the money together. Yeah. And his daughter's there. Just like she's in charge of like whatever like the in arena entertainment. And now that just to like again,

I didn't know that history with that detail. But to have that experience of it fictionalized totally. But to have that experience to be like, man, they really like scrapped and clawed to like get this in the bus family. you know, this isn't like James Dolan who like got it from his pop. You know what I mean? And the other thing that is interesting, well, he did. Jeannie did get it from her.

I mean, but she was like on the ground floor. I got you. I got it. I got it. I'm affecting the bottom line day one. You know what I mean? Oh, right.

You don't think, you don't think Jim Dolan was? No. No. So here's what I'll say about the, the price of it and everything is it does make you wonder because it feels like we've had that Lakers news. And also. There's like these slow leaks about, hey, expansion could come sooner than you think.

And it's like, whoa, whoa, what? And it's like, okay. Like, are we getting close to announcing something? Because like the values of these franchises is, I mean, it's unbelievable. And obviously the media deal that they got for the billions of dollars. And so just things like things are moving fast on that. We went from, hey, yeah, it is something we've talked about, whatever. to where it now feels like, you know,

Adam Silver is getting serious about it and there's slow leaks about, hey, like, there could, like, if we got an announcement before next season, it would not stun me, you know,

that they are going to be adding two new teams to the fold and here's the going, because the amount of money that they are going to get for two new franchises, which is going to be split amongst everybody, is going to be extreme. And so you'll get that money. And the, the amount of money that these guys spent for their teams and what they can flip them for now is getting crazy.

Well, I think that crazy. Like you can't, the money doesn't really, really change the roster, right? Like richer owners are going to be more likely to go into the luxury tax or whatever. But if you look at Isbio with sons, he's like,

yeah, I'll fire Monty Williams and still pay him. I'll fire Frank Vogel and still pay him. I'll fire whoever and still pay him. You know what I mean? like that kind of stuff. Or like, oh, we're building new practice facility. We're hiring five assistant coaches.

Like the things that aren't capped when you have like a conglomerate. Of course. That invested $10 billion. They're like, oh, we're going to fire JJ Redick. We still own $40 million. I don't care. Right. It doesn't matter.

You know what I mean? The luxuries that go along with it. Yes. It's the things that you don't see. Because we all talk about like this guy makes $40 million and you got to fit him on the cab. They only have the mid-level session, the second apron. Like all that stuff is very fixed.

But everything else involving the organization is not fixed. And it makes a difference. And it makes a big difference. Some of these teams have personal chefs that are at their practice facility 24-7. And some of them have, you know, every technological advance and health-related advance in the world. And some don't. And that's the way it is. When you watch football on NFL Sundays, we talk so much about the offensive coordinator and defense coordinator, right?

But with the NBA, we kind of just talk about the head coach. That's right. And like, those are very important positions. And if you have deep pockets, you can fill out that assistant coach role, player development role, like those sort of like not front and center face forward roles on the bench, but have impact on the franchise become more important. And when you have the kind of money that they're going to have, you can sort of build out at those margins as a franchise.

A couple other things that we need to mention quickly. Ema O'Doka and Billy Donovan, thanks to the New York Knicks, because they both got good contract extensions. After, oh, wait, like, somebody else wants you? Okay, we'll give you another contract extension. Like, email doca is the most obvious contract extension ever. Email makes a lot of sense. But good leverage for him, like, you know what I mean?

The Billy Donovan thing is like, and then they're bringing back the GM too. It's like, oh yeah, everybody in Chicago has done such a good job. Why wouldn't you lock that in? That's a couple things. Number one, EMA. I don't understand. I thought EMA did a great job in Boston. And I heard very many things about what happened there, but apparently it was an untenable situation that he could not continue there. That's the best thing. One of the best things ever happened to the Houston Rockets franchise. No question. They did, they had an interview with them, did a little investigation. They're like, oh, that's what you did? Sure. We can get past that.

And they've turned that franchise around immediately. The Donovan thing, I'm like, okay. All right. They'll be in the play in. Donovan, that extension. You remember when you were a little kid and you would go out back and like,

you didn't have enough players to somebody was an all-time quarterback? Yeah, of course. Yeah, they're just all-time play in. Yeah. Like, they're just all-time playing. The bulls.

You're playing the bulls. When I played football, it was one guy that could throw passes, so he was the all-time quarterback. Okay. So you're playing. the bulls in the play. Just whoever, whatever team's out there,

you hope your team can scrap it together. You're playing the Bulls. That's who you're playing next year. No one cares for a 22nd personal story. My buddy Graham Gill, who I didn't even like that much growing up, but he had a very hilly slope in his backyard and we'd play football there.

Man, that changed the game. Because if you're on defense, you're coming down that hill. You can really lay some lumber. They should put that as the Pro Bowl. Last thing. And we'll get to talk about this in our Monday pod. We got the NBA draft less than a week away now.

It's tomorrow. Dude, you know what's crazy. So locally, of course, I haven't cared. The Grizzlies traded their pick for in the Marcus Smart deal. So they weren't going to have a first round pick. So of course, I'm looking at the draft a little less than I typically would, right, honing it. But then they made that bane trade.

And so now they have the six. 16th picking the draft. So now I've been having to do this like crash course on all these guys. But it's also like number two. You have it. It's like 16. It can go so. And so they ask me,

on our local deal, they're like, hey, we're going to do a draft show next week. Can you be a part of it? I was like, yeah, of course.

Yeah, right. And then I was like, yeah, but like I also record on Thursday nights, whatever. And they're like, the drafts on Wednesday.

I'm like, why? Like, what? And they're like, it's, Two days again. And I was like,

this has really screwed me up, though. Like, my whole life, I feel like the draft's been on Thursday. And they put it, they put up like the national TV schedule upon the broadcast tonight. It was like, Game 7, potentially Thursday.

It was like, draft Wednesday. I was like, really? Yeah. You see, am I wrong? Isn't there like a week? You get like a little breath. Do you know what it is? It's because what you mentioned

to start the pod. We haven't had game sevens in the finals for so long. We haven't had game sevens in the finals. That's what the difference is. So you usually get like 10 days or whatever. It's where you started the pod is what's affected this stuff. So like, man, you usually get a little breath between the end of the finals and the draft. We just haven't had game sevens.

So the draft is going to be next Wednesday night. And there's one story that has taken over the draphosphere in the last 24 to 48 hours, which is this whole what the hell is going on with Ace Bailey? Why is he like canceled the meeting that he was going to have in Philadelphia? and it's like, it's kind of screwing up everybody's mock drafts. It's screwing up all the odds, you know, for where guys are going to go pickwise. If you look at any of the odds. Well, the first report was-

Nobody knows what's going to happen with this kid. Bailey's like the assumed number three or edgecombe, right? Or then if he'd not number three, they'll be number four. But then there was a report earlier today that was like, oh, one player refused to work out with the hornets because he doesn't want to play with La Mello ball. And I was like, huh? Who's that?

And then later you get, he canceled, canceled a workout. It's one thing to not work out for this. Canceling a workout is weird. And then there was a report, I don't know how much I believe in this one. So do they have a promise? From who? Yeah, no. But the only thing that makes sense is if Nico is like, I'm taking you number one.

Fuck Cooper flag. I got you. I mean, that would honestly, be the funniest thing that could ever happen. It's him not taking Cooper flag. But anyways, yeah, nobody knows what's going on with this Ace Bailey thing. It's very strange. I even read, I'm a subscriber to Mark Stein substack, and he and Jake Fisher did this big

thing about Ace Bailey, and they were going through like the different teams, and they're like, you know, is it Danny Aange and Utah maybe? Is it the Pelicans? But the Pelicans, we're told they don't have as much interest as has been inflated. It's like, could he drive? all the way to Brooklyn, who I guess is like eight or something. It's like, what is going on? What is what is going on?

Are we going to have one of these like odd situations where I mean, it has felt like at least since everybody's been doing all these mocks that there was an assumed three. And then you could, three or four, three or four. No, but edgecom, you want to throw edgecombe in there? Sure. But now everybody's in just absolute love with Knieple. You see it all over these. Because that's on Bill's pod.

That's all. No, no, no, no, no. This happened before that. That's the T.J. McConnell bump. You get the McConnell bump. That's what it is. He is helping him. There's no question.

He's like a stronger McConnell. Yeah. Imagine a badger McConnell if he was big. He's like two inches taller and 40 pounds heavier. He just makes the right play. And a better three-point shooter. Why people love T.J. McConnell so much. Well, they don't have anybody else, too.

I love him too. Yeah, I mean, it was. I love him too. I love his dad. I want to hang out with his dad. Honestly, it's almost like $5,000. You can watch Game 7 at the McConnell house. I'd be like, I'll give you six.

I'll give you six. His dad looks like such a good hang. Yeah, so the Ace Bailey thing is going on. And I, as I mentioned when I was on with Bill, about this, I deep dove on, this guy I've just absolutely fallen in love with is this Cedric coward. That's your target. I'm calling him your target. It's the Grizzly's Target. The guy who at Target that told me he was going to be great.

Yes. But he's already, like, did you see today? So I said that on Bill's pod earlier this week. and then today the NBA announced Cedric Howard is now going to the green room no they did like you know they only invite X number of players to the draft in the green room

and I'm like oh my God watch he's going to end up going to the frigging top 10 like you I tell you this you watch his interviews he's the most impressive kid I think I'm seeing in the last 10 years I think we should just call him the target for the rest of his career

because the guy at Target told you about him Because the guy at Target, I swear to God, if I ever, I wonder if I'll ever run into that guy again. I don't know who it was. It was really just a random guy. You'll see him again. Memphis isn't a huge place. For those that don't know what I were talking about, I went to Target two months ago and bought a box of basketball card.

Which is insane, by the way. Who's buying basketball cards? They're 40s, weirdo. Me. Me. It's an investment. It's an investment. in the golden value.

No, I'm a collector. So anyways, the guy says, hey, you should get those Bowman Crohn's. The Cooper flags are in them and the Cooper flag autographs are in them. And those are getting sold on eBay for like a thousand bucks now. I was like, oh, I'll take my shout at it. So I go and I pick up the box. I'm a bite. I'm small talking with this guy.

And he's like, you know, everybody's chasing these Cooper flags. He goes, the best player in this draft is going to be Cedric Howard. And I was like, who? And he's like, just remember I told you, like, Cedric Coward, he's going to end up being the best player out of this graph. And I was like, yeah, okay, man. Honestly, it was a stranger. I don't know who it was. And about three days ago, Rosa is reading off this list.

And it is guys that were like this height with a 7-2 wingspan. And it was like, O.G, and Anobie, Pascal, Seacom. It was like all these guys and every one of them had turned out to be awesome. All of them. All of them. All of these guys of this that fed this criteria where when they did their measurements, they were wing players with the 7-2 wingspan that had this ability. And so he's listing off, he said, and it applies to two guys this year.

And he says, this guy, Cedric Coward. And I said, okay, this is crazy. because I hadn't thought about the name since. And I was like, a guy in Target told me that was going to be the best player. His nickname is the Target. He's going to be the MVP one year. It's like Cedric the Target, Howard.

Dude, hey. So then I, of course, look it up. I'm just deep dove on him. I'm doing it tonight. I can't be in more. Number one, he is absolutely awesome. Number two, his interviews, you and I

if I went into a job and Cedric Coward went into a job there's a zero percent chance I would get the job he would interview so much better than me he would bow out you'd hear his interview he is so

he's so impressive it's unbelievable and check this out he was D3 that late of a bloomer D3 to Washington State then was supposed to be this year going to Duke, but they told him he was going to get drafted too high.

And no, no lie. I said that on Bill's show, and I had a guy that works with NBA players that from, I don't even want to tell you the state, out of state, not anybody in Memphis related.

A guy texts me that heard me say that on Bill's podcast. I wish you never mentioned it. No. He said, I actually know that kid. He's the second best player in the draft behind Cooper Flag. And I was like, come on. Like, this is going to be crazy if the kid ends up.

Again, it's not like I watched him at Washington. I didn't know his name until Target. I see where this is going is like next September. I'm going to get a call from Bill. He's like, hey, man. We've replaced you on the mismatch. That guy from Target is not. Guy knows ball.

The guy knows ball. I thought somebody the other day, we're going to find out his name's like Johnny Presti. And it's a Sam's long-law's brother. Steve Kerr's son, who's coach of the Warriors, was just shopping at Target in the basketball card section. I mean my-existed because they have everything in Target. I meet my draft experts at Target. Just loitering around the basketball card section.

What is this guy's like the best basketball take of all time? He just sits around the basketball card section, just waits for people to stop by, because those are his people, and he drops gems on him. That's who he is. Let's find this guy. If he's listening right now, please just get at me on social. And I'll have you on the pod tomorrow. Imagine if he's right.

Oh, he's right. I know he's right. I don't know who Senator Howard is. I know he's right. It's seriously going to be the funniest thing ever if this kid turns out to be like. I want to start this now. let's call him the target. Cedric the target Howard.

Because I found out about him. It's just such a weird story. I had to relay it. And now he is the player that I loved. I have to love him. You got to one. It's destiny. It's like I loved.

I loved Cnipple and now I'm off of him because everyone's on him. He's too hot. He's too hot. He's like counting crows or something. I didn't even listen to him on Bill's pod. I was like, no. I'm not going to listen. this interview. I was like, no.

I saw, I swear to God, I got a promoted tweet. It was cold. It was, uh, during the finals, I got a promoted tweet that came up and it was an ad for Chipotle with Concanipple. And I was, what? He's already got Chipotle ads?

Yes. Yes. Do you guys have Joe in the juice in Memphis? Who? Joe in the juice. It's like a coffee smoothie sandwich place. No, no. Kevin Durant has like a steak sandwich. Have you or Stephen A. Smith? We don't have anything.

All we have is crime, according to him. What a dick. What a dick. Anyway, go ahead. Yeah, I'd be quiet about that. Anyway, Joe and the juice. Kevin Durant has a sandwich at Joe and the juice. I'm like, how did this happen?

My wife is walking past it because she likes Joe and the juice. She's like, how is Kevin Durant involved with Joe and the juice? I'm like, I don't know how any of this happens. But I'm sure Rich Climman made like a million dollars from it. So whatever. Oh, I heard we were going to get a Joe. in the juice, but they were scared. Joe, so he didn't get one.

Joe doesn't feel safe in Memphis. He saw Stephen A. on first thing and decided not to build it. Go to hell. All right. Let me guess. You have to patience in game seven? 100%.

Me too. Fuck it. The fetus is going down. Someone, someone, someone, D. me the McConnell's address. I will be there. I will be there at 1 p.m. on Sunday,

just loitering outside, waiting to get invited in. I've always wondered, one last thing before we get out of here, are you one of those that wants the team that beat you to win it all because it makes your team look better?

No, never felt that way. The transitive property has never been a thing. Or you root against them because they beat your team. Generally the latter, but the way I feel about Tyrese Hallibur has changed so much over the past two weeks. I can't even help itself. You do not think it is a good thing to have lost to the eventual champion. You don't make any more solace in that.

Doesn't change me at all. But I'm also like, again, like I call myself a die easy fan. Like I change the way I feel about stuff just left and right all the time. And like I hated Tyrese Halliburton a month ago. And now I'm like, I don't know. I think it's like my third favorite player in the little. league right now. Well, Cedric

Coward's on the way. So he's my first favorite to target. He's my first favorite playing. All right. That's going to do it for tonight's show.

Game 7, and we'll be here to be talking about it after it is all said and done. And then the draft will be right around the corner.

Thank you to our executive producer, Jesse Lopez, as always. Thank you to Tucker on video. And Jacoby, I will talk to you

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