The Mismatch - Pacers Pull Off Another Comeback—Is OKC in Trouble? Plus, the Knicks’ Future Without Thibs.

Episode Date: June 6, 2025

Verno and Jacoby recap a wild NBA Finals Game 1 that saw the Pacers come back yet again to beat the Thunder and take a 1-0 series lead. They go through all the stats and numbers and try to figure out how the Pacers came back, as well as how they continue to have these impressive wins in the playoffs. Is it time to finally put some respect on the Pacers? What adjustments will OKC make for Game 2? Next, the guys briefly discuss the fallout from the Knicks firing head coach Tom Thibodeau. (0:00) Welcome to The Mismatch!(0:23) Pacers Stun Thunder: 111-110 (IND 1-0)(11:17) Finals Odds: Oklahoma City Thunder [-320] Indiana Pacers [+260](14:15) Breaking Down the Matchup Adjustments(25:20) Can The Pacers Win This Series?(52:25) Knicks Fire Coach Thibs Leave us a message on our Mismatch Voicemail line! [phone] Visit creditkarma.com or download the app today. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Chris Vernon and David JacobyProducers: Jessie Lopez and Tucker TashjianSocial: Keith Fujimoto Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon and join me as he does every week from the ringer.com is Dave Jacoby. Jacoby. What just happened? It is now seconds ago was the final buzzer in Oklahoma City. And I'm shocked. I'm floored. I'm absolutely floored.

Everything changes. Imagine that feeling of being one of those fans that were there. Put your shirt on, walking out of that tunnel. Walking down the stairs to leave that arena, imagine feeling that feeling right now if you're a Thunderfair. I couldn't care less. With 252 left in the game, the Indiana Pacers are watching Shea Gildjus Alexander take another free throw

and put Oklahoma City up by nine. This is again, Jacoby, the story of the playoffs, where we are coming on to an episode going, I can't believe they just did that. They are down nine in the finals game. Their first lead of the game was taken with 0.3 seconds left in the game. And so, look, I think, I'll say this. I don't want to, look, I do feel bad if you were an Oklahoma City fan and you had to witness it.

But no, you can. Hey, hey, look. Look, you can have communion with Bucks fans and Cavs fans and Knicks fans because now you're in the club. You have gotten done to you what they have been doing throughout these playoffs. And we think at some point we've seen the last of these what just happened. And yet here we go again. I swear to God, I joked earlier in these playoffs. I said, you remember when they used to always have after the championship, they would say,

and don't forget, subscribe to Sports Illustrated and get the championship DVD. And throughout these playoffs, I've said, bro, if there is a DVD theory, these guys have the most unbelievable DVD ever. Like, and then this happened. And then this happened. You're watching it. You're like, no way. No way.

And so now, this is now four consecutive fan bases that have been rooting for their team against the Pacers and have been up by a margin that seems totally insurmountable given the circumstances of the night. And then they just steal it away. Again, they were down nine with 252 on the road in a game where they had turned the ball over a thousand times. and never had the lead. I don't even know where to start, but I'll say this, lightning struck once and then twice, and then three times,

and then four times. It's unbelievable. This episode is presented by Intuit Credit Karma. Navigate the world of credit cards with Credit Karma's tailored recommendations. It's suitable for anyone interested in taking control of their financial journey with cutting-edge technology. Start at Credit Karma.com to find

cards that fit your financial lifestyle. Credit karma, finding the right card for you. I do want to start here. I thought that the decision to give Andrew Nemhardt the keys to the car and say, down the stretch, you're going to be our guy to say, Halliburton doesn't have it tonight. He's getting deed up. Andrew Nemhard, take us home. And there was two minutes left.

And he was just working from the top. it's on the left side. He goes between his legs three times, and he creates a three. It was just like, I mean, they treated him like he was like, James Harded.

There was like, hey, Andrew Nempard, you just cook. Hallie doesn't have it. And that brought it to 105, 108 with two minutes left. And that's when I started thinking like, oh, they might do this.

Like, they might actually do this. Because it seemed as if, down the stretch, I would have to go back and look at the chart, But down the stretch, you think about the Oklahoma City shots that were made, and it is very hard to think about them. You think about the inbound pass that failed that was the runout to Jalen Williams. You remember the very tough finish by Shea Gilgis Alexander under duress going to the rim.

Other than that, I mean, I feel like it was all free throw line. Like it's hard to remember the field goals that they made. There's tons of the field goals you can remember that they missed. But the field goals that they made down the stretch, it just feels like, I mean, I'd have to go back and have to look at it. But I'm just off memory and trying to think about what are the Oklahoma City shots. Because for so long in that game, it felt like every time Indiana went through those stretches where they were getting a couple of stops and they would get like at one point,

I think Breen said that's a 601. run, which is the biggest Pacers run of the game at that point. And then that became part of a 10 to 2 run. And then they had another 10 to 2 a little bit later. But what felt like for the first three quarters of the game is every time they would start to get in a range where you and I are texting like, hey, they're kind of hanging around. Hanging around. I texted you hanging around like four times.

They're hanging around. But how, I mean, I swear to God, has anybody ever hit more significant timed threes than Lou Dork did throughout this game? Like, every time the lead got to 10, bang, Lou Dork three, or then it would get to 11, bang, it's back to 14. And Caruso made some huge plays down the stretch. I thought Crusoe played great. Yeah, at the beginning of the fourth quarter as well. but it's just one of those games where now it just ended and you're trying to compute all of it. We probably should take it a little bit of time to go through it.

But like, probably. I mean, I mark down on my notes. They're down nine with 252. How? How? How? Like, they dominated them for 45. minutes of this game.

That was like, and eight, you know, even then it got to, at one point it got to four a little bit, earlier in the game. And guess what happened? Dord hit a three. Three for the back. Yes. That was the story of the game. It was just answer, answer, answer, answer.

And then finally it was like this relentlessness of the Pacers, this, it goes all the way to 48 minutes. minutes, can you hold up for the 48 minutes? And in the second half, started not turning the ball over. In the second half, started knocking down corner threes at a good rate. Obie Toppin start, who started the game in maybe the most disastrous fashion in NBA finals history. Obie Topping's first five minutes were just like, oh, you can't play him for the rest of the series. No. He might as well, like, not fly back Sydney Naples, but then he turned it around.

because he's getting naked threes. Yes. Like if you give Obie Top, unlike when he was with the Knicks, if you give him open butt naked threes, he'll knock him down. And he's proven that throughout the playoffs, and the Thunder gave him naked threes, and he knocked him down.

He did. And you thought even, like, when you're thinking about, like, the plays down the stretch, there was, you know, Nemhard took the, you were talking about the hardened stepback. So he knocked down the one.

Then he tried it again, but he grazed the front rim. Missed. Siakum puts it right back. Seacum got it. Yeah, Seaccom put it right back in. And like,

I do want to talk about those top and threes because some of the top and threes were like, you're down 12 and now you're down nine. It just, it just seemed like they were always kept themselves within distance. They always kept themselves. Oh, they're down. They're down.

What were they down? The most 14. Yeah. And then bring it back to nine really quick. And then when you get to the closing minutes, they're down eight and eight's like you know a couple stops a couple shots like they kept themselves in the game there were very many points because you and i both do this for a living you're taking your notes i'm taking my notes and i'm taking my notes as if the thunder are going to win and right

around two minutes left i was like oh wait a second maybe i should look at what chet shot from the field maybe I should look at what J. Dubb shot from the field. Wait a second here because I'm ready to celebrate the Thunder in their defense and Alice Caruso. And then I said to myself, wait a second, let me look, let me look a little bit at what these other players that aren't named Shade Gilders, Alexander did on the Thunder. And it's not pretty. It's not pretty. Chet Holmgren, Chad Holmgren didn't do anything tonight. Nothing.

Nothing. No. And it's one of those like, yes, you evaluate now. the way you evaluate people as winners and the way you evaluate people as losers is quite different. And shout out to Richard Jefferson, who went ahead and started to evaluate the losers talking about maybe the most ill-timed, hey, is it safe to go ahead and kill this guy moment of an NBA finals broadcast where he's like, you can't have your best player have concert dates. He's talking about Tyrese Allerburt.

Oh, yeah, true days. And fast forward. and the guy, it's one of the biggest shots in NBA finals history. Well, it's shot to Richard Jefferson because I love that, dude. I spent a lot of time sitting next to that guy. I love that guy. But that Halliburton shot was a bad shot. That's like a 20-foot jump shot.

Like that's not even like mid-range. It was like a long two. It was a bad shot. And he knocked down. In fairness to Richard Jefferson, I thought it was probably safe to go ahead and talk about how Tyreys Halliburton hadn't been good enough. But this is the lesson for broadcasters, for fans, for media, for everyone else. Until it's 48 on the clock, it's too early to say anything bad about the Pacers. It's crazy.

Unheard of. Unheard of. Wild. I mean, first of all, if you have a Fandle account, I think the Thunder going to win this series. and I think the odds might have shifted in your favor. So I would put a little, I'd put a little penny or two on the Thunder right now because I think the Thunder played better.

I think they were the better basketball team. I think they had no answer. I think Halliburne had no answer for their defense, just as we expected. But man, I thought that having Nemhardt be the ball handler and be like the focal point of the offense in the fourth quarter was such a wild thing for Kyle Al and the Pacers to do, and it paid off.

Yeah, sometimes it paid off because he missed a shot and see I can put it back. But he also hit a three. And I think that saying it's not going to work with Tyrese as the main guy was really, really smart. It was a really smart adjustment on the fly. Well, Tyrese Halliburton, his bad game was 14 points, 10 rebounds, six assists, and a game winner. That was the bad game.

It was a bad game, though. He did not play well. He did not play well. Well, and I know you say they outplayed them, but the. The Thunder shot a tick under 40% from the field, and the Thunder got outscored by seven three-pointers. The two things we talked about were you're going to have to win the three, the way the Pacers could have a chance against the Thunder. And the way we could be talking about this series for at least six games, as we talked about, was you're going to have to win at the three-point line by a wide margin, which they did. They won that by 21 points tonight.

and you're going to have to keep your turnovers low because you know they score 20-something percent of their points off of turnover. So what if you could just make that 10 percent of their points? And that's what we talk about. And then they turned it over 20 times in the first half. The fact that they were not getting run out of the building by halftime is a miracle. And they just had not given up an excruciating amount of points. They even showed Rick Carlisle in the locker room saying, look, we have to clean this up. Can't be dribbling in traffic, which side note, hilarious.

They showed the in the locker room speech where Rick Carlisle is telling them, hey, don't dribble in traffic. And you know how they have to do that during the course of the game? Here's what Rick is. Oh, well, sort of a half time, right? And so then they, hey, then they come back to the game and Ben Matherer like turns it over immediately trying to dribble against Caruso saw the ball. And I'm like, hey, I'm like, I guess

Ben wasn't listening. I wrote it down. He said, you can't dribbling to a crowd against this team. You can't throw tight bounce basses against this team. And then Matharin, of course, turns it over and Caruso steals it.

Right. Immediately. At the same exact time. But one of the things that was fascinating about this was at the very beginning of the game. There was a starting lineup change. And one of the things we talked about was,

and it's interesting that you talk about Chet and not really noticing Chet tonight in this game and not being impressed with the game that Chet had. Did he play? Look, I will say this. I always think that these kind of string beanie type guys need to have the brute force next to them because they are not, their calling is not to be the brute strength, right? This is, it reminds me a lot of when we used to watch, and it would get to the playoffs and it

would get to these times. And, and Jaron Jackson Jr. is playing alongside Stephen Adams and then Stephen Adams is out of the game. Or Stephen Adams is hurt. And now you're watching Jaron Jackson Jr., who was in a position that Ched is in now, and now he's playing center. And now he's having to do it. It's a different role.

It is a different role and it's a lot to ask. And I thought, especially because you're dealing with Seacom and Turner and this is not a rebounding murderer's row, I thought that was going to provide a very big advantage for Oklahoma City. And instead what happened is they tried to match up small tonight and they got destroyed on the board, 56 to 39 for a team that bench their center. 56 to 39 was the final tally, Jacoby, in this game. And you didn't start Hartinstein.

It's interesting to look at in retrospect. Because I thought that the Chet Hartenstein front line was going to provide quite the advantage for them. And obviously, Mark Dagnold wanted to try to match up. small for small. And, you know. I have it as 64 to 47, which is a huge gap with the rebounds. And, and honestly. Am I looking at the wrong thing?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's refreshed. I have 5639. Okay. I got 6447. And let me tell you, man. I mean, it's still 17 spread. It's, I didn't, I didn't see Chet getting back down or getting back down. or getting bodied or like,

I didn't, I didn't see that as the problem. Honestly, it was just, they couldn't break away. It was a Nemhard three, a Miles Turner bucket, a Seahum just going to the line.

Like, they just could not get it to 15, 16, 20 points. And I honestly think that Obie Toppins' threes were so insignificant in the exact moments in which he hit them. But in the grand scheme of the game, that's what kept them in the game.

It's what kept them in the game. The other thing is, I mean, for the Pacers to play at this kind of range, this was interesting to watch this game kind of turned into a half-core basketball game. Think about the transition baskets you can really think of. And while we talk about this extreme number of turnovers that the Pacers had, you did not text me one night about pick-sixes. because it just was not They were all in the first half.

It wasn't, but even then, they only scored nine points off those turnovers in the first half, and there were a million of them. They had 20 in the first half, they had four in the second half. That's the difference between the Knicks and the Pacers is going into halftime,

having a conversation, then having your players execute the details of that conversation. Like, they tightened up in the second half. Man, like, I, I can't say enough about Andrew Nimhart. I'm shocked. They're down nine with 252 left.

I mean, teams, this just doesn't happen. And yet it has happened now for the course of the last month and a half we've been coming on here going, I can't believe that just happened. And it's always the Pacers that we're talking about. It is. And that SGA 10 footer, You thought that was going in. I thought that was going in.

He had a 10-footer. He was fading away, but he was naked. He hits that eight out of ten times. And it just happened to be one of those times where he missed it in this moment, which makes me break out my pacifier, which I have in my pocket because I have a new baby. There you go. And I don't know, Verno. There you go.

The fetus? The fetus? Did the fetuses do a little fetus? A little. A little. A little. A little. A little.

A little bit. I mean, I will say, did you think they were going to call Kaysan Wallace for a foul for the body foul on the on Siakum where the ball went out of bounds in the corner? That's what led to that. Right? I mean, it was just contact. And I was like, they're challenging it because he's trying. They're obviously not challenging whether or.

or not it was out of balance. That's how you use the challenge, though. If it's zero, you know, there's like whatever, seven seconds left, like use the challenge then. That's when you use it. Just burn it. Like, why not? You know what I mean?

Oh, by the way, Mark Dagnall, who's usually great at this as well, burn the challenge on a terrible. Terrible. Terrible. Now, it did not cost him greatly because, hey, can we talk about the unbelievable defensive efforts that took place, the Matherin block, the Lude Dorp block that at the moment felt like won the game, the Niesmith run out, and Niesmith goes up,

and then the replay of that is even more impressive. I mean, if you are teaching defensive clinics on how to go vertical without fouling, I mean, it was unbelievable. But that led to an SGA bucket, which puts them up five. At that point, I'm like, can't lose this. Two possessing game. Can't lose it. It's impossible.

How could you possibly lose this game? When did Miles Turner bank the three? That's when I was like, okay, okay, maybe, maybe they could do this. Definitely did not call bank on that. How about the pump fake, step to the side and then bank? You're a center. You're like a potential defensive player of the year like four or five years ago. Like you don't do side step threes.

Well, and I know you say, I know you're sitting there saying, hey, I thought the thunder out played them or whatever. But you also on the same, look, look, on the other side of your mouth, you just said, I'm looking up and down and I'm trying to analyze who did it for Oklahoma City. And it's like, uh, it was a lot of shade gilded as Alexander. And Lou Dord, who's been shooting 30% in these playoffs, turned into Clay Thompson. Now, on the other side, you can say, well, Obie Toppan did too. But, I mean, the Pacers have been the best three-point shooting team of any of the teams in the NBA throughout these playoffs.

They have shot 40% as a team. So, yes, 47 is high for tonight. But they have shown to be the best three-point shooting team as a team in these playoffs. And there's a reason why Rick Carlisle's halftime speech included, we're getting a lot of good looks from threes. Trust the process. Keep shooting them. Keep shooting them.

And we talked about corner threes, the available shots versus Oklahoma City. This is something that they have been very successful at, and it was something that showed up for them tonight because they shot an insane clip from corner threes, including another appearance by the great Thomas Bryant. I can't believe this guy. Again, he's only there because Tony Bradley's not available.

There are so many fan bases. They're like, how come you didn't do this when you were in our uniform? I mean, he is giving them good penit. He's given him good minutes. I will say this, though, is I'm looking at you, J-dub, and I'm looking at you, Chet. and I'm saying where is it guys

it's the finals like J-W you're supposed to be the second banana I saw you against Minnesota those last couple games you were efficient

you were effective you brought us across the finish line when SGA couldn't and I'm looking at those two saying this man can't do it by himself it's one of those weird things too

because Gildiz Alexander I believe I just read was it's the most points at a finals debut since Iverson. Bro, that's... Oh, game one when they beat the Lakers? That's like 24 years ago. It's a long time.

Tyler stepover? That's a long time. That was an 01? Yeah, 24 years. So, I mean, that's a long time since somebody's had this many points in a finals debut. But you're right.

That was the wonder. What about the second fiddle? Who's the Robin? and is that Robin going to be able to show up at a big way? And on the flip side, it's like, okay, here are the questions that you had about Oklahoma City, if there were any. And then let's also be fair. Like, everybody thought this was going to be a malling.

Everybody. I don't care what anybody says now, right? Like, everybody said, I think if I heard one pick, I heard a thousand people pick Oklahoma City in five. I saw that story you sent to me today. Jay-Z bet a million dollars on it. And I text you back. And I text you back. I said, they will not win in five.

If there's one thing we know, it's that if everybody thinks something's going to happen, then it won't. How many football Sundays do you see the desk And they have the graphic on the bottom And all five analysts pick the same team And you're just like, oh, I'm better than their team now That's how it feels in this series. I still think the Thunder win the series And they could win in five or six

But man, we We ended the last pod by saying When we go live on Thursday night I hope we have a competitive basketball game And man, we got one. Here's what I say to go to Kobe. what do they have to do? What do they have to do to make you believe in them?

That you just watched them do it again. You just watched them do it again. And here, what are the first? You think they're going to win the series? And within the first, Malika Andrews, who was promoting tonight's game leading up to tip-off said, guys, everybody stay tuned in. Like, like anybody just tuned in for the pregame show. But make sure, hey, this one is huge.

Over 70% of the teams that one game one have gone on to win the NBA finals. So tonight's game is massive. So she said, over 70%? I think they absolutely can win the series. I think they absolutely can. It's a different than saying they will. They will not win the series. Why not?

Why not? I just think that the three. The funders defense. The Pacers turned the ball over 20 times in the first half and won the game. You don't think they can't. What happened when the Pacers cleaned it up? What happened after they felt the pressure for two, a half of basketball,

and then adjusted to it? Do is there anything that happened in the second half of that game that made you believe that the Pacers can't compete in this series? Come on. Come on. You watch the same thing I did. Do you know how many times the Thunder turned the ball over tonight? I would guess.

Six. Come on. That's like near perfect. That's near perfect. Six. I'm shocked. I'm floored. I'm floored.

I mean, I think the youngest team in the league did that. Is this your victory lap after a game one in the finals? No, I'm just asking you. can't believe it. Come on. Come on. I can't believe it.

I cannot believe it. I thought that SGA shot was down. It's a 10-foot fadeaway that I've seen him hit, I don't know, 400 times the last three months. Like, that is such an easy bucket for him and he just missed it. Harry's Halliburton doesn't miss those ever. Well, Hallibund's shot. It feels like, feels like, feels like he never misses him. Feels like he never misses him.

And do you know who was there to watch it? John? Yeah. John Allenberg. Oh my God. I will say this. Don't you think they'll put Hart and steam back in the... They'll put Hart and steam back in the starting lineup.

Yes. I thought that was very... I thought that was very strange. Very strange. Bro, you just put up a historic season. A historic season. Truly. They've been...

Amazing. And Kaysan Wiles played 33 minutes tonight, had six points and was a minus 13 as you installed a minute. I just don't understand the drastic change. It almost was the only, the thing I didn't like about it. And I, look, whether they would have won or they would have lost, I still would have felt the same way. to me, when you don't start Hartenstein, to me, you're saying we think that having Hartenstein out there is a bigger disadvantage to us than it is an advantage to us against this team.

And that was something, and look, Mark Dagnall knows his team better than me, but that was something that I thought was an advantage for them in the, like, here's how we're willing to, here's how you want to play. Okay, well, if your front line's going to be Miles Turner and Pascal Seaccom, my guy's getting every rebound. And my guy is going to set every screen for Shaggildas, Alexander, and we're going to play off of that. And they're going to work.

And my guy can play off the short role. And I just, I don't know. I just thought it was odd to try to match up with that. And again, the results are the results. They turned them over 20 times. but they didn't convert off of those. And as we mentioned, they got smashed on the boards.

And there's no way you can't look at their lineup and what they went out there with and say that's not a massive factor in getting smashed on the boards because Hartenstein would be the advantage. Hardinstein played, he played 17 minutes and got nine rebounds. So one would wonder,

hmm, maybe if he played longer and he's three for five from the field, nine points, three for three from the line, whatever. But nine rebounds in 17 minutes, you get out rebounded like that. You wonder. You wonder.

Well, but you were small. You played small. You played small. Yeah. I think Chad only played 23 minutes. So it's like they wanted to play small and play fast. And it worked until the last three minutes of the game. Well, it's always 48.

It's, if there's anything we have learned throughout these playoffs, it is always 48 minutes versus the Pacers. See, I just don't, I don't think the Pacers played well tonight. and still came away with the win. Don't you, I guess you could say Oklahoma City can play a lot better than they did tonight. We know when we have seen that.

But I was more surprised that Oklahoma City in their home arena where they have boat raced people struggled. And they had been off for an extreme amount of time, you know, resting up for this and preparing for this. I was surprised that they did not run out after the Pacers. Like, they felt that pressure and just were throwing the ball all over. People are trying to dribble against them. And it's like, bro, did you all see any of the tapes of Oklahoma City this entire playoffs? Like, there is a, there's an incomplete graveyard of guys that have attempted to dribble around these guys. Like, that's not.

the way. And I don't know. I guess I'm more surprised that Oklahoma City didn't run out on them when I thought the Pacers played damn near pitiful in the first half of that game. And it wasn't, what was it, 12? I think it was 12. At the end of the half? Yeah. I think it was 12. I thought It's one of those things where like you feel like you should be up 20 but you're happy to be up 12 but you really should be up 20. The Pacers did not play well in the first half at all and the Thunder didn't take advantage.

And that's what kills you. They never extended the lead to a margin which felt natural to the way the game was being played. The Pacers played terrible in the first half. I can't name a single Pacer the play, maybe Obie Topping. Outside of him hitting a couple three, he's like no one played well in the first half. And man,

Like, when it got down to it, like, But did anybody play out of their mind? Is there anybody on the Pacers that you went, that won't happen again? Maybe Obie, if you want to say that, but we've seen that before. But we've seen him do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And he ended up like five for nine for three. Like he didn't, it wasn't like knee-smith. He was fine. Well, he's one of those guys that we joked about earlier in this season, where I told you, he's the weirdest.

If you give him a bunch of minutes, he gives you a bunch of production guy. It was the night we did the podcast after that crazy Minnesota game where he just went nuclear against his heroes. Right? And it was like, this guy, for whatever reason,

he's kind of logged in at this amount of minutes that he plays. But every time he plays big minutes, he gives you big production. It's the damnedest thing. and so nobody really played out of their mind on that team. Oh. No.

There was a Seyakum block on Shea Gilders-Alexander to keep it 107, 110. It seems at the moment you're like you still feel like the Thunder going to win. It's not that big a deal, but that was a huge block. And then SGA missing another shot. Like, I have to say it, he had opportunities as the MVP. as the star, as the future face of the league, whatever you want to say, he had opportunities to win this game and didn't do it. And they will probably win the championship.

I don't think this doesn't change my mind about the way the series is going to go. It does feel very Denver-y in that sense with the Gordon shot, where we watch that, Gordon hits that game winner, and we're like, what the hell just happened? We just read, re-evaluate everything we just thought about this game. right is the Russell Westbrook throw it over to Aaron Gordon he makes it and he's like what just

happened and that's kind of what this one is as well and Gilson Alexander did rebound from that in a huge way and they ended up winning that series all I'm saying is he's not the problem he played great he played great but he had opportunities to win the game and didn't do it and I honestly feel like that Halliburton shot

there's when you're defending a player there's obviously the three point line And then when you get under the three-point line, you just don't expect somebody to pull up from like just inside the three-point line. Look at SGA. Kurt Goldsbury has this wonderful thing for the ringer. I'm sure we all saw it on Instagram with all of SGA's buckets at the basket and in mid-range and behind the three-point line.

And the animation, I don't even know how they do it or where they got it. It's fantastic. I fucking love to watch every second of it. But you never see someone pulling up from one step inside the three-point line. It's just so unnatural of a motion for an offensive player that I felt like Halliburton used that to his advantage. The defender says, all right, now you're inside three points. I'm going to give you a little extra space. And he just rised up and fired it and hit like a 21 foot jumper, which you don't see.

You just don't see those in the league. I loved him not taking a time out. I loved that the recourse for most coaches in that spot. They get the stop. They get the stop because Gilders-Ox-Ander misses his shot. And so it's a live ball right there. There's no dead ball in this situation. And it's like, go, go, go, and go make this happen.

Because I think there's a lot of coaches that want to, they love these out of timeouts. Oh, they love, that's their chance to be, yes, that's their chance. They're going to get to draw it up. It's hubris. It's saying, I'm going to be the timeouts. the guy who's going to win us the game. I'm the one who's washed all the tape and drawn up all these plays. I have the fun.

I've got it. I've got the idea. But Rick Carlisle's been around. The worst thing you can do is let that. My ego and my hubris is not in the way. It is not my hubris is going to win us the game. My ego is not going to win us the game. It's that guy, Tyrese Halliburton.

I've seen him do it for the past two months and he's got the ball. I love that. And I am not going to let that Oklahoma City defense set up. Nope. I'm not going to let them substitute. We're going to be a scrambled mess. We're going to be cross-matching. We're going to be right. Like this is all the worst thing I can do.

And I can't wait to watch his press conference back to talk about it. But I mean, I think he knew. He knew the ball is going to get in the right guy's hands. And we're going to win or lose depending upon what happens right here. This guy's got to go make a play. And he did. He did it again. I'll be damned.

He did it again. Halliburton. I mean, he is on the run of all runs. Seriously. He really is. Dude, he did this. To do this. The offensive rebound against the calves and then running back to the three point

line and hitting that shot to get the ball and drive against the Knicks and then turn your back to the basket. Look at the opposite shot clock and then turn around and hit a three that bounces up out of the frame of the television and in, and then it hit, like, literally, I think it's like the first 21-foot jumper that everyone's taking this entire season. And to hit that,

to leave 0.3 left. And I heard Mike Breen be like, there's plenty of time for O.K.C. to take a shot. No, there's not, Mr. Breen. There'll be no bangs. There'll be no double bangs. There'll be nothing. Point three, it's happened once.

And that was Derek Fisher. That's the only time it's ever happened. It ain't happening. Now, and look, I will say that they, as that whole thing was unfolding at the end of the game, that felt very odd for them to be talking like this, this game is a, you know, to be like, I don't know, it was very strange.

It felt like the Halliburton thing was so dramatic. And yet we were focused on, hey, it's ain't over yet. It was like, way over. It's because they're in the building. When you're in the building on the road, It's like when you're in the building with that home crowd and you're surrounded by the energy of 20,000 Oklahomans willing this team to victory,

you can't help but mention that there's still a chance. There's no chance. But a couple plays I want to mention, there was a knee-smith three to make it 102-108. It's 99 to 108 with 230 left. That game is over. 230 left.

You're talking about five possessions apiece. Like, it's like, there's 2.30 left. Like, you can get four or five possessions. You're up by nine and Neesmith hit a three. And I'm just saying to myself, like, man, like, six point game, 102, 108. You just never know. Like, these Pacers make you feel like the miraculous is possible. And they've had miracle after miracle after miracle.

They were losing the entire game, Jacoby. Literally the entire game. their lead was taken with 0.3 left. It's unfathomable to be losing a game for 47 minutes and 59.7 seconds. 47 minutes 59.3 seconds. That's how long they were losing that game. Just two minutes left in the game. and basically the Pacers were like

Halliburton can't have the ball. Let's just give it to Nemhard. And he's the one who brought them home. It's shocking. Dude, the finish through contact on Caruso is something that you just don't. There was a lot of

we're physical two moments in this game. Whether it was the Ben Matherin block, whether it was the finishing through the contact, whether it was Siakum grabbing a ball off the rim after Nemhart, you know, a bunch of offensive rebounds down the stretch. And it was like, look, the dirty work guys for Oklahoma City were doing dirty work. Lou Dorton, the first half, Caruso in the second half. I mean, it just felt like those 50-50 balls. Crucible. How many extra possessions were those guys creating for them?

And obviously we've already chronicled the Dort 3s, which were tremendous. But it was, I don't know. We did our show last week and we said, or I guess on Monday, and I said, we just want, we're trying to figure out how we can have a game six in Indiana. And I know that you think the Thunder will still win this series. They will still be favored to win this series. Well, they'll still be favored to win this series. They were the sixth most favored team in the history of the finals, betting odds. So they will still be a prohibitive favor to win.

But I promise you this, we're going to be talking about a game six that was played in Indiana. That's what tonight was. Tonight was we are going to be talking about a game six because they're not going to, they're not losing four straight. And now, as we've always talked about, you're in the position where you're Indiana, you've got to go three and three versus them in six games. And that feels a lot more doable than winning going four and two against that team, right? Can you split against them?

I'm saying it's now plausible that we could be talking about Indiana because they were able to get this one. It becomes realistic. Much like me looking into this camera and talking into this microphone and saying Julius Randall will disappoint you in the playoffs. Perhaps the Oklahoma City Thunder are too young and inexperienced to win it all. Perhaps it's just going to take a little bit longer than you think for your take to fully vest.

I kept telling you that- Because Julius Randall, the Larry O'Brien trophy had not been hoisted yet. But I also, in fairness, we did the Monday episode, and it was very tough to read all the finals previews. It was tough to read those. Because it was like, oh, no. I mean, it was daunting. But I guess here's the deal. it is the hardest thing for us to do is to get out of our head this season in totale right

that post-January first this Pacer's team has been the second best team in the NBA to only the Oklahoma City Thunder we are treating them like a four seed in the Eastern Conference. But they have played like the second best team in the NBA. And then they have done literally nothing wrong in these entire playoffs. It's truly just their fault for starting the season with a losing record until January 1st. Because if we could just say the season started on January 1st, and we could just, you know, do the mind-zap thing and just say, okay, that didn't,

2024 never happened. Then we would think about this all so differently. Their record would be the second best record in the NBA. Their performance would be the second best performance in the NBA. And they have only lost four playoff games, including knocking off Janus, knocking off of 64-win Cleveland team that had home court events. and knocking off the New York Knicks. Like, that's happened.

And I don't know. It's here we are again. We're going to do this all the way to the damn end. It's going to be, this is the most unlikely, craziest thing that's ever happened. Honestly. But a couple of things. If you were to say to me before the game started,

the thunder are, because what did everybody say? Like, it was so reductive the discourse about the finals before the finals. because we had four days to talk about it, it always boiled down to pace and turnovers and transges and transition baskets. And if you were to say to me,

the thunder are going to turn the ball over six times, not in the first quarter, not in the first half, in the entire fucking game, they're going to turn the ball over six times and lose. I wouldn't understand it. This doesn't make logical sense,

but when something doesn't make sense for so long, it's actually you have to look at yourself. The Pacers have been making miracles happen. Series after series after series, we have to just accept it as logical fact.

So that's why I'm so confused as to why you came out of this game and you thought, pick the Pacers. Go ahead. Pick the Pacers. Pick the Pacers. This is not about picking the Pacers.

Look, you know where I stand. I'm literally the only human being on earth that did not believe in Oklahoma City being able to do this. And this has gone tragically wrong for me. So I've picked every. I mean, not tonight. Not tonight. Look, Oklahoma City just took 16 more shots than them. It took 16 more shots than them in this game.

Wait, really? Yes. 98 field goal attempts to 82. And that's while losing the rebounding in a dramatic fashion. Figure that out. Then what happened? The turnovers. The turnovers.

They turned it over 24 times, Jacoby. Those are lost possessions. Those are lost possessions. They took 16 more shots. them tonight and lost. What happens when that evens out? What happens when the Pacers don't turn it over a million times? I mean, unless you want to tell me, oh, yeah, the Pacers are going to turn it over.

What makes you think the Pacers aren't going to turn it over 24 times again? Like, that was crazy. That was extreme. They turned it over four times in the second half, right? They felt it. They felt the pressure. They stopped doing dumb shit. They stopped having the wrong guys dribble into traffic.

They stopped having the wrong guys trying to throw cross-court passes. I mean, Obie Topping threw the ball everywhere for five straight minutes. The first five minutes for talking. And credit to Rick Carlisle, that's a veteran coach that's been around the long time that's stuck with this guy and raped the benefit for sticking with this guy. They do not win the game. Because, again, it's those threes that take you from down 11 to down eight that don't seem. that significant in the moment. But man, when you win the game like this,

like it was just, I texted you at least four times hanging around. Hanging around. They were just hanging up. They wouldn't let it get to 1718. They wouldn't let it get to a point where it seemed an insurmountable lead. They just kept it within arms distance,

the entire game. And one thing I do want to say about this game, I really enjoyed it. Look, there's going to be a whole community of these people, Jacoby. When we started the show, I told you, there's Bucks fans, they're Kaz fans, there's Knicks fans, and now there's Thunders fan, and they can all get on a conference call with each other and talk about,

I can't believe we lost that game. And they will all have the most amazing story ever told of why they can't believe their team lost that game. I think the difference will be the Thunders fans will be having a parade. The Thunder fans will be having a parade. They will. This game does not change the way I feel about the series. Okay. It really doesn't.

Why are you making that face? Because what do they have to do? I haven't heard you pick the Pacers yet. I haven't heard you pick the Pacers in the series yet. What do they have to do is what I'm telling you? I have not heard you pick the Pacers in the series yet. What do they have to do? You're not going to believe until it's over, until they do it?

No, I do not. I believe that Thunder are going to win the series. Okay. I do. I'm asking you what the Pacers have to. Oklahoma City needed to get it. this one because the Pacers played like crap. It really did.

The first half was ugly. It was not. Because it's so easy to focus on the last three minutes for the Pacers was the great, but they looked like trash for the entire first half. And we're down trashed. It was bizarre. I kept telling you like, how were they not getting blown out?

How were everybody getting blown out? I've watched this happen a thousand times. That Oklahoma's. city crowd goes crazy. They're dunking in the transition. Margin of victory. Alex Caruso was beating his chest and Lund or it's knocking down threes. And it's like, as you said, every time it got to 12, it got to nine.

And every time it got to 14, it got to nine. But when you think about, hold on, Verno, when you think about those thunder winds and those thunder rallies and those thunder things where everyone's playing well, J. Dub and Chet are involved in that. And tonight, can you think of the two makes that Chet had? Because I can't. I think he had a dunk. He had one dunk.

I think he had a dunk. But like he had two made field goals. J. Dub barely. Just like you'd need other guys to contribute. I mean, they are young. Jill Williams is two for, he mentioned they're young again. Jalen Williams played 36 and a half minutes. He was six for 19, one for four.

four from three. You just need to be better. They are young. You know, first go around. It's the finals. It's the finals. All right, before we get out of here,

I've got to ask you, we do a whole damn show Monday. Oh, my God. Talking about how we wouldn't fire tips. Why would you fire tips? You just went to the conference finals. You're one of the four teams still playing basketball in

June. Why would you ever fire the head coach? You know what I lament? It really is just going to be like, and I'm glad Rick Carlisle won tonight because he's not the, he's not the player's friend. He, like Rick Carlisle and like Eric Spolstra and I mean, God, we lost pop. So, you know, as a as a head coach in the NBA, I guess Kerr, Kerr certainly is not player's friend necessarily. But I mean, like there is a player friendly fella.

He is a player friendly coach, but don't tell Jonathan Kaminga. I just think that Tibbs feels like part of Last of Dying breed, you know, where it's like I'm the coach, you're the player, I call the shots, and you know what I'm saying? And now I do wonder if we're going to look up and those kind of guys are just not the head coaches anymore. It's going to be young guys that all pulled the same rope as the front office that was hired that are very open to analytics. And you know what I'm saying? Like that that's the, that's the NBA now. I mean, that is honestly, that's also, that's the NFL now.

I mean, like, and the guys they hire, right? It's the new up and coming guy that's very open to analytics and is very open to this. And I like, I like the old school guys still being. good and having relevance and being good teachers and being no bullshit and not caring if the guy on your roster gets paid $35 million, I'll still bench him. You know what I'm saying? Like, I like that. And I don't know. That's part of why I was so sad to see the Tibbs news, besides the fact that it's like, I don't know. There's this feeling that I guess you create your own monster in some ways where it's like, here, I just had this success and now I'm expected

to do more. And when I don't do more, now everything turns into, did we not win in the end because of the coach? Or do we not win in the end because of the front office? And then the front office says, hey, we had good enough players. The coach effed it up. And the coach said, what if we had good enough players I wouldn't have to play seven guys you know right and then the GM's like well you should have played more than seven guys

I just hate it all you got it was a great season they went to the last four teams and they got beat by this same Pacers team that very well may leave all manner of coaches and players in its wake

you know I'm I'm shocked that they fire Tibbs it's been the best next season in 25 years. They beat the Celtics in a playoff series. A lot of people, don't forget,

a lot of people pick the Celtics to win the championship. And the Knicks beat them, a healthy Celtics, went up 3-1 on the Healthy Celtics and beat the Celtics in a playoff series. That is success. That is success.

That's a successful season. So who are you going to bring in that's going to be better? And here's what I think it is. I think, and again, like, I think it's important

for people in our business to understand what we don't understand. We don't know what goes on behind the scenes with NBA teams and the relationships between coaches and players. We just don't know. I think with football, you can kind of look at a coach and you look at play calling

and decisions that are made and you can sort of critique what happens on the field and directly attribute it to the coach. But in the NBA, so much happens that we don't know about that my only theory is what happened here is in the exit interviews, star players said negative things about Tom Tibido. And ownership or Leon Rose or whoever decided to side with the players.

That's my theory. I don't know anything from the inside, but that's my theory. And I think that sometimes you want your kids to have a tough teacher. Sometimes you want your kids to have a hard teacher. And I feel like these, I think Tibbs is a tough coach to play for. And maybe he's not your favorite guy. Maybe you don't have dinner every night. But you're winning basketball games. What else do you want?

Why would you fire the guy when you just beat the Celtics in a seven-game series? Why would you fire the guy that brought you to the Easter Conference Finals for the first time in 25 years? Why is he fired? Who are you going to bring in? And then I get these reports. I'm looking on Instagram. It's like they're interested in Jason Kidd and E-May with Doak. I'm like, they're coaches for other teams.

There are few franchises that will stand by the coaches over the play. and in fact that is what's gone. It used to be that they would say that's the head coach, right? Once upon a time, Pat Riley He's the authority figure. No, no.

Pat Riley stood by a young Eric Spolstra. You've got to believe LeBron and the boys wanted a different coach. Oh, do you remember when LeBron bumped him on the way after that timeout? Remember that bump? A little shoulder bump.

Jimmy Butler, you could have very well, gotten rid of Eric Spolster when him and Eric Spolster got into it a couple of years ago. And like there's very few of those, right? You feel like Steve Kerr would be stood by. I mean, I don't know,

it wouldn't be stood by over Steph Curry though. I mean, so maybe that's, I mean, clearly Popovich just was stood by year after year, even though Kowai Leonard won a title in Toronto. And that didn't, you're right. It didn't end up wavering. And so it's interesting now, to your point, I don't know how many organizations would stand by their coach and just say, this is our coach and you're a part of our organization. You're the player, right?

We hire the coaches. Because now the players do have an extreme amount of power. And if they are uncomfortable, I got it. I understand the, I understand the way it works. but, I mean, it used to be, and you can argue whether that's better or worse, that the employees didn't get to pick their boss. You know what I mean? I don't know if it makes better or worse.

I'll take the other side of that for a second. I'll take the side of that for a second because when Mike Malone was relieved of his head coach duties at the Nuggets, right? There were reports after that. They're basically like, to paraphrase all these, you know, well-reported reports, the vibes were bad. Like, everybody hate each other. It wasn't a good time around the team. And I understand that, but I didn't get that from the Knicks.

And now it's Rick Brunson is a problem being there. Okay. And the exit interviews, people had things to say about Tom Thibodeau. Who? Who said what? Who on that roster? Besides Jalen Brunson, would I say, oh, oh, McCall Bridges doesn't like Tom Thibed?

We got to get rid of them. Oh, Carl Anthony Towns, like Tom Tibido, we got to get rid of them. And who are they going to bring in this is going to be an improvement? Who are they going to bring in? I got to be honest with you. Right after the Knicks lost to the Pacers,

by far, New York-wise, like when I would see like the clips from New York radio or I would read this stuff, by far the most criticism was towns. Wasn't even close. Wasn't even close. That felt like the focus of the ire. it was like we can't have brunson and this guy this guy can't play i mean it was podcast it was

radio shows it was like and then two days later so i i was like just under the impression okay everybody's decided like if we're doing blame game why did this end the way it did it felt like the focus of much of the ire was about towns and like hey we've got brunson already we can't have this kind of defensive liability where they're or as our two best players and so we need to figure out what is our solution for

either getting the best out of a different version of towns or moving on from towns but it just felt like towns towns towns was the conversation after they lost to Indiana and then it was like oh actually it's tip's fault I was like

I thought everybody I said on this show on Monday You can't revamp the roster. You're not going to trade Carltonty Towns for Kevin Durant. It's not going to change anything. You're not going to bring in Eme, Doca. He's the head coach of the Rockets. Like, you're, I'm getting frustrated even talking about this.

This bothers me a lot. As a former player of Tom Tibado, and again, I am biased. As a former player of Tom Tibado, I just feel like he's not the problem. And I think that tonight's game is a very good demonstration. between the difference between the Pacers and the Knicks. The Pacers turned the ball over 20 times in the first half. They go into the locker room and you know what the coach says? Stop turning the ball over.

And then the Knicks go into halftime after getting beaten transition, I don't know, 10, 12 times in the first half. And the coach says, get back on defense. And they just don't make the adjustment. The Pacers made the necessary adjustment tonight to win the game. They played poorly in the first half and they made adjustments in the second half whether it's coaching or execution on the players, who knows. But it's a bit of both.

And I thought they did a really good job of saying, here's what we did wrong in the first half. Here's what they're trying to do to us defensively. Let's make adjustments. Let's change our behavior in the second half. And they did so. They did so. And the Knicks did.

Sorry, buddy. It's going to be weird seeing a different guy on that side lines. It is. The Van Gundy thing would be fun. It would be fun. This is Jeff Van Gundy. That would be fun. There's no chance.

There's no chance. That's like a buddy that breaks up with his high school girlfriend and gets married to somebody else. They're like his second marriage is to his high school girlfriend. That would be the Jeff Man Gundy hiring. That's what it would be. It would be like all along. It was you, JVG. All along.

It was you. All along. Well, Jacoby, we've gotten very lucky with this NBA finals because now it has turned out to be extremely interesting. We said on our Monday show, the worst thing it could happen would be what has happened to other teams, and that is like a mauling in game one.

They just got fed to the lions, and they lost by a million. But for tonight, you can swaddle your Ted Holmgren and Jalen Williams. You can give them their baby bottles, and they can get

a good night's sleep and get ready for game two. Swaddle, though. swaddled them. Thank you to our executive producer, Jesse, as always. Thanks for our video producer Tucker and Jacoby. I'll talk to you on Monday. Must be 21 and over in present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 over and present in D.C.

Got a gambling problem? Call 100 gambler or visit RG dash help.com. Call 1-888-88-98-9-77-77 or visit C-CPG. dot org slash chat in Connecticut or visit md gambling help.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit Gamblinghelpline.m.m.m.m.m.m. or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts. Or call 877-8 Hope N.Y or text Hope N.Y in New York.