The Mismatch - Picking New NBA Player Islands to Inhabit and Evaluating Old Choices

Episode Date: September 21, 2021

Verno and KOC take a look back to 2019 to evaluate their previous picks for which NBA player islands to inhabit, most of which are pretty unfortunate and some of which have come off well (0:45). Then they choose some new islands from the pool of lottery picks currently in the NBA (23:40). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Associate Producer: Sasha Ashall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's happening, everybody? It's me, Jason Gough. And it's a long-time Chicago Media dude. I'm on 10 to introduce you to the full go. A new podcast at The Ringer and Spotify dedicate to all things Chicago sports. We'll be coming to you on Sunday, Tuesday, and Thursday nights with all the reactions to the locals.

Plus, I'll be chatting with my friends and people who matter in town. If you want to ask a question or fire off one of those absurd barbershop takes, I'll react to your calls on a listener voicemail line too. So whether you're in Lakeview, the Wildhundred's K-town, the burbs, or a transplant, make sure you follow the full go on Spotify, wherever you get your podcast. Welcome to the mismatch. I'm Chris Barney. And joining me as he does every Tuesday from the record.com is Kevin O'Connor, A.K.K.K.O.C.O.C.O.K.K. Kevin O.K.K. Kevin O. I'm back on the West Coast. You are back. So for those of you that do not know, we were off last week. Thank you to all of you that said that you missed us. But we are back as Kevin was. was packing up his bags and moving back out to the West Coast.

And now you have, you've settled in a little, huh, this week? Yeah, settled in a bit. Took a lot of time this past week unpacking, organizing stuff. Yeah, I'm excited for, you know, being in L.A. now again and looking forward to this coming season with the Lakers and the Clippers. UCLA could be good with Zhu Zang back, USC there. So two NBA teams, two,

two college teams and a whole lot else here. So I'm excited for, you know, hopefully what will be my best NBA season and our best NBA season together, Chris. I'm pumped for it. Well, exactly one week from yesterday, teams are going to have their media days and they're going to be in training camps. Hard to believe where they're already. Seriously. I was just texting with a team earlier today because I'm trying to write a story on a team, which you'll maybe we'll see in October on the ringer.com and he's like, it's like in one week, one week we're leaving next Monday,

you know, for a place that they're going. It's nuts, man. So I look forward to getting working on stuff. Because I was having a meeting this morning and someone mentioned to me, they're like, oh, well, there'll be a game that night. And this was in two weeks. And I was like, what are you talking about? And they were like, yeah, there's a game, October 5th. And I was like, Oh, what game? And they said, there's a preseason game. It's Grizzlies Bucks. It's going to be that night.

It's a home game. And I was like, oh, my gosh, it is two, it really is two weeks, two weeks away from us watching NBA preseason games that are going to be taking place. October 3rd is the first one, I believe. That is the first one. Lakers in L.A. Sunday, October 3rd is the first preseason game. And the funny part is, I mean, that could be a finals preview. It could be. Nets Lakers first preseason game.

We'll see how things shake out this season. But Russ, LeBron, AD versus Katie, Kyrie, Hardin, and all the other guys on those teams. I'm looking forward to it. I'm pumped for preseason basketball. Well, and I'll tell you this, Kev, what's going to be very fascinating over the course of the next really week is how much movement there is. how much movement there is. There's a couple things that you think are probably a good chance they get done,

which are free agents that are still hanging out there, get added to be brought into at least to training camps because you'd like to add them into the fold prior to that. If there is a trade out there, Ben Simmons did not get traded last week while we were off. Shout out to him. No need for the emergency podcast. despite the Frank Millikenna news,

him going to Dallas. I tweeted at you twice, Chris, trying to get us to hop on a podcast, do an emergency show because of Frank Millikina. I got to be honest. But we're here today instead. We'll talk about that later, of course.

I'll be honest. I really did not feel like it warranted an emergency pod. I'll be totally frank with you. Frank Nilakina with you. No pun intended. Yeah, pun intended. But you're going to have free agents

being added. And then you're going to have these guys that are up for extensions. Some of these, I think we'll probably, I don't know if there'll be a flood of news, but you're going to see news come out about at least some of them. Because we've only had a few. You only had, I believe, Luca, Trey, Gildjus Alexander. I mean, that might be it, right? because Aiton hasn't gotten his extension yet.

Jaron Jackson hasn't gotten his extension yet. But I think some of those, those are going to get done. I think before training games starts. Usually teams want to knock that out. So that's got to happen within a week's time. In Florida, the deadline is October 18th.

So there's still a lot of time on those rookie eligible players. Like you said, Aiton, you know, Bridges with Phoenix, bridges with Charlotte. You know, there's a lot of guys that, you know,

are still eligible for that. Yeah, but guys want to get that kind of stuff. The teams, a lot of times, want to get that stuff done. Yes. But just get it out of the way. It's not a distraction. You're not thinking about that. You're not worried about if you twist your ankle in the preseason, God forbid.

Of course. They usually like to have that stuff sealed up. And so Colin Sexton's another name. That's another interesting one because like it, depending on what might happen with Ben Simmons stuff. Yep. He's been involved in trade rumors since pre-drafts. So that's something to monitor. too. Yeah. And you wonder if some of those guys are going to try to sign extensions that are

even a little bit less than what you would normally think because that's what they're being offered, but it's a guaranteed four or five years in some of those cases. You know, like the Jonathan Isaac thing that we had. Remember where it was like, okay, there's an insurance policy on the back of it and he got 90. He didn't get max money. He didn't get even close. But he guaranteed himself, you know, 80, 90 million bucks. And so you wonder if some of those guys are going to sign deals like that.

And those are actually the ones that could become tremendous values for teams if those players do reach their potential and then just wildly outperform the deal that they were capable of signing. Once upon a time, organization was able to build an entire, you know, mini dynasty in Golden State in large part because all the ankle injuries, the first couple of years of Steph Curry, and he didn't have a big contract, you know, that second contract, he signed. That one could be Michael Porter, Jr.

Could be. That's really the one name that comes to mind of the remaining players. I mean, you could also throw out Mo Bamba, Mara. Marvin Bagley, the third, could throw them out there as well in the same company. You have no idea if they're going to get deals or not. It doesn't seem like these teams are willing to commit. Totally sarcastic about Bob and the same classes as Michael Porter Jr. Not in that class, but it is fascinating.

They could get deals. Yeah. Do they get deals? They could. Right. Wendell Carter Jr., both guys with Orlando. Yep. Anyways, in honor of Frank Nilakina, which was the massive free agent move that took place since we last spoke,

Frank Nilkela went to the Dallas Mavericks and is there now. And Frank Nilakita, as you have chronicled many times, you are firmly still on Nilakina Island. I am, baby. Yeah. I am. he is 23 years old. Years young, Chris. And he is now joining a guard crew in Dallas that they have acquired this off season.

You know, they got Sterling Brown. They got Reggie Bullock. They also re-signed Tim Hardaway Jr. And so he is going to join in on the mix there. Of course, last year, your guy that you loved in the draft, Terry, right? They drafted him last year from Stanford. And so they got a bunch of guards there now in Dallas to surround around Luca Donchich.

But it was around this time just a few years ago. See, last year, we were busy playing basketball. But a few years ago, 2019, we had our episode about islands. We decided what islands we were still on with guys. now I'm going to give you terrible news Kevin right off the bat are you not on Frank Nilakina Island

with me Chris is that the terrible news I'm about to find out here look if you need me to tell you that news then we got a problem come on no that has nothing I mean I had a little bit of hope

of course I did now now that Nilakina who is a very good defensive player is paired in a back court with Luca, who the game will be simplified for Spot-Out 3 is attacking closeouts. Oh, Spot-up 3s. I thought maybe you might be like, this is it. Let me tell you something.

This is it. Spot up threes. I'll tell you this, if I, if my season tickets were in the first five rows of the American Airlines arena, I'd move back a few rows because you may get clunked in the head this year. I'll tell you what, Chris. I mean one second before your bad news here. I'm still on Nilkeena Island. If it doesn't work here, it's not going to work anywhere.

So, I mean, like playing with Luca, this is the spot for Frank Nilakina to have success at 23 years old. Six, four, seven foot one wing span. You go out there. All you get to do is figure out how to hit spot up threes at a competent rate. That's all you got to do. And do what you do on the defensive end of the floor and make the smart decisions. Like he's always made good defense. He's always made smart decisions, but you don't need a dribble.

All you're going to do is just hit spot-out threes. That's it. Simple stuff playing with Luca. Very simple. This is it. It's going to work. You ready for the bad news? Yeah, I'm ready for the bad news.

I went and looked up our islands. What were our islands? Oh, my God. What year was this? What year? 2019. 2019. Two years ago then.

Okay. Oh, Kevin. Tell us. Tell us our islands, please. It is much worse news for me than it is for you. Oh, okay. Tell us our islands. Give me, give me mine first.

I want the good news first now. Good news. All right. Your islands. Again, this is, look, you can't say somebody like that's been really good generally in practices like this, right? We are trying to find guys that nobody likes anymore. and therefore, and today we're going to do it a little bit differently because we've narrowed it down to just lottery guys that people either have given up on or have a lot less faith in than they once did.

When we did this practice in 2019, we were looking for deep cuts and of guys that we thought, you know, all right, I'll stick around on their island because I did like them at one point. I'm going to, I'll be on their island. Terrence Ferguson was one of yours. Okay. Where's he? I like that. Where's he now? Terrence Ferguson right now is with Philly, I believe, right?

Philly, yes. He's with Philly, yeah. I don't know. I'm not on Ferguson Island. You are. Got acquired last year by Philly, I believe. I had him on my 2019 list. Yeah.

That was year three for him then. He was 27. 17 draft. Who else? Oh, look, it's embarrassing. For the, for the, for the nerdy Kevin O'Connor fans out there,

they're going to love this because it makes you look a lot better. Oh, yeah. Well, not really. Justin Anderson. My God. Tough spot. I still, I will still say,

if Justin Anderson had become a competent three-point shooter, he'd be in the NBA. But he didn't. He never could figure it out as a shooter. Never did. And this is going to be a true test of our stubbornness as to whether or not we still claim to be on these islands. I'm not on Justin Anderson Island anymore. Hey, Ferguson Island, have you abandoned that one?

I mean, I'm surprised I even had him on my list, to be honest with you. Once upon a time you were in love. Mo Bamba, of course. Of course. I'm still on the island. I'm not going to mention him. I'm not going to mention him today because you know, do I even need to bring up the name? you're the only inhabitant.

I don't think that's true. I really don't think it's true, Chris. There are people around the league who still believe there are. There are many of us. Their name is not Steve Clifford. No, it's not Steve Clifford. Steve Clifford, you know, who left the job because he didn't want to deal with a rebuild. I think he left at the wrong time.

I do. Orlando has some nice young talent, dude. They've got the 2000. Good drafts. No, I know. They got the 2017 McDonald's All-American team. There are some coaches who are adaptable, who can coach in any situation. And then there are some coaches who it's my way or the highway.

So for Orlando, it might be for the best. You were feeling the Orlando magic when we did this because you had Aaron Gordon on there too. Oh, yeah. And I still think that was good to have him there. He showed some good stuff in Denver. until we got to the playoffs and he was scoring three points. That's unfair, Chris. No, it's not.

They just pulled up the numbers. He avered 11 points per game, 39% from three. He wasn't outstanding, but it's year one, they acquired a mid-season. Let's see how it works year two. We can't pass judgment on that.

I already did. And then this last one, I jumped you when it happened because I thought it was ridiculous. Who was it? Brandon Ingram. I mean, come on. Nobody thought Brandon Ingram.

You had all these names of guys that hadn't done anything. And then Brandon Ingram, like, he was already good. That was after the deal with the Lakers and Pelicans. Yeah. Okay. That one doesn't really count. I know it doesn't. That's what I said at the time.

All right. Now, one that we both agreed on, that we, I mean, look, this is punt material. I've stayed there as long as I can. I mean, I might have a toe, but I don't even think I've got a toe on the island anymore. Who is it? I feel like we were taken over by a volcano. Ten till Valentine. Oh, yeah.

I mean, the volcano came. What happened to him? And I mean that genuinely. Like, he was such a at Michigan State. He was such a high IQ player. He was so smart. His feel for the game was unbelievable. And then something happened in the NBA

where you're just making so many bad decisions on the floor. Let's blame the Bulls. Yeah, blame the Bulls. Let's blame the Bulls. I don't know, man. It's been tough watching him in Chicago. All right. Other ones I had in 2019,

Jordan Bell. Jordan Bell. Is he back with the Warriors? Are we, are we, he was back at the end of last year? He had a cup of coffee with that last year. I don't know what would become. a little time of the Wizards last season

two. He was on Memphis the year prior, right? Yeah. He never played. Okay. Trey Liles? Oh, God. No. I mean, I liked the pick. I like you having him. I thought the spurs were going to do something with him. He just went there and like, I mean, he might as well

witness protection. No, he was worse. I mean, like, production wise, like it was no better. So that's why he wanted to witness protection. I liked him in Denver. I thought he had some stuff and he fought on boards and could knock down some threes. I don't know, man. It just didn't take. All right.

I'm done with him. Frankie Mason the third. Oh, yeah. Has he played a game since then? Oh, I just pulled out his numbers. He's played in 13 games since then. Oh, my goodness.

That's wild. Frank Mason had some good moments as a rookie with Sacramento, but... I know, college basketball's player of the year, Frank Mason. Man. Oh, man, that transition's tough, man. NCAA to NBA, not easy. Yeah. And you know what?

Like, it's like... And then Devante Graham started making shots everywhere. And I was like, that's what Frank Mason was going to be. I got one that I don't feel bad about. Because nobody cared about him at the time. I said this. And I think he's got like $80, 100 million now. Luke Conard.

I still like Luke Conard. Yeah, me too. He was a diamond in the rough. So I did get that one. I mean, you could argue that he belongs on the list again this year, given what happened last season with the Clippers. That's fair. You could argue, I'm not going to have him on mind,

but I did have him like on the long list in preparation for the podcast. Because just because things didn't go well this year for him and the Clippers. And then here's one that you kind of agreed with me. And man, we just held on, this should tell you, this is two years ago, and we were still holding on to a glimmer of hope as we remained together on Jabari Parker Island. Oh, yeah. And it just, no. I can't get over how awesome I thought he was at Duke and how it's just never taken.

I know he's had a hundred million injuries. I mean, he played Simeon High School. He was tearing his ACL. Chris, he played, he got playoff minutes of the Celtics this year. Stop it. There's still home. They're still home. Javari Parker got playoff in it.

There you got playoff minutes of balls. I think that, I think, is that why Brad Stevens quit? He said, to hell with this. You mean Danny H. He did any age his job. He went to those owners and he said, I'm not. Oh, Jabari Parker, are you out of your mind? Come out here with Romeo Langford and Jabari Parker.

Let me go get some players. All right. So, yeah. But when I looked at some of the responses to our island pod that we had gotten, our listeners, by and large, they can do revisionist history now. They didn't do much better. A lot at that time. And it's only two years ago.

there was a lot of Hosonia Island yeah a lot of Kevin Knox Island which that's still an island um is it an island

Kevin Knox Island I mean his minutes have dwindled every year I mean it's you and a volleyball you and like Tom Hanks I'm not on that Knox Island anymore unfortunately but I will say

there were quite a few listeners that did get one right in 2019. And that was Papianus. No, Monk. I'm just kidding.

Not Papianatus. Bender? Monk. Thon Maker. Thon Maker? Malik Monk. Yeah, Malik Monk. He's working out.

And that Malik Monk stock, it might go boom. Good. This year. It can go boom. Really could. It really could with the Lakers. I know. He was, he was shooting the hell out of the ball

last year before injury. Yeah. You know, he had really carved him. That was a good cut. He finally, like he, because he always shot the ball well at high school college. But for whatever reason, first three years in the NBA, he couldn't shoot anything. He shot very poor percentage from three. First three seasons, only 32%, but he was 85% from the free throw line.

He still had to touch. It's not like he can't shoot. Something either clicked last year or was an outlier season. I'm betting on something clicked because for a lot of these skinnier, scrawny guys without lower body strength, that adjustment to hitting those tough shots from three-point range can be really difficult. So from Malik Munk,

maybe, you know, maybe I should do some reporting about this, but maybe for him just speculating here that something clicked, you know, physically with his mechanics, and he finally was able to start draining those three-pointers that he did in high school and that he did in college.

And if he continues to do that for the Lakers, hmm, I mean, he's only 23 years old, Chris, he's a great athlete, great athlete, yeah,

and finally, away how he could be effective on an NBA court picking his spots. And he is one of those players that, for anybody out there that goes to games, when you see him in person, you are immediately shocked at how small he is. He's so scary. I always thought he was shooting guard size, but there are a lot of point guards bigger than him. Oh, no doubt. He's a little guy.

He's small. I mean, he's tall for like normal people. He's six three, but he's very lean. I'm telling you he ain't six. three either. But what's he listed at on the, I don't know what he's listed. He's listed at six three.

So he is six three barefoot. Look, he must be. Look, Isaiah Thomas was listed at like, you know, six foot sometimes. Yeah,

back in the day he was, but when they changed it to barefoot, they did list him at five nine, which is what he is. Like, I'm like five nine and a half. Five nine and three quarters or something. Me and Isaiah Thomas,

when I interviewed him, we stood like eye to eye. I will tell you this. 6.3 is still now. There's a lot of point guards taller than 6.3 and certainly all the two guards, which is where he usually is. So that's why maybe it

stands out so much more, right? You see these guys that are 6, 7, 6.8, that are out there next to him. And it's like, geez man, that is a little guard. Oh, totally. Especially it's how skinny he is, too. Yep. All right. So now we've

fast forward and in 2021 we have decided to in honor of the great Frank Nilakina make it lottery picks that we feel like people have either given up on or stock is very low that they are

that they have an island of which people dwell maybe some people dwell but what I tried to do when I looked at this Kev was you know when I think about these kind of guys it's usually guys that even the fan base of the team isn't necessarily all that in on, right?

And once upon a time, I covered a guy like this many years ago, a guy that I am not, who I love as a person. I know his whole family this day and everything in Mike Conley. and I did not believe. I thought they were dedicating themselves to something that would never take. And there were a lot of, you know, Grizzly fans back then that believed that also. And so when I look at it,

like even local fan bases may not be all that enamored with these guys. Because they're the ones that are most passionate about the roster because they're the ones that watch every single game. They know these guys, et cetera. So I tried to go through all these different lotteries. It's hard to find long ago's, but it was fascinating to look back at some of the

lotteries and you think about even how much differently we think about even somebody like Zach Levine today than we would have a year ago, right? And it's several years into his career. You can really change the narrative about yourself. and you could change what kind of player you are. Terry Rozier, same thing, right? You think about him differently now than you would have five, six years ago.

We've chronicled that. So try to find some of those. You want me to start or you want to start? Let me start off with the oldest draft. So from the 2014 draft, Chris. 2014. The fifth pick of the Utah Jazz, now playing for the Houston Rockets,

Dante Exum. I really, hey, when you said fifth pick, I said, if this dude says Thomas Robinson, I'm going to die.

I couldn't remember what year that was. Dante, Dante Exum has had a very poor NBA career. He's had a lot of injuries. And the odds are, he's not going to have a long career moving forward either at 26 years old now, not in accomplishing much of anything in the NBA. However,

however, Chris, I thought he had a pretty good summer. I thought he looked pretty good in the Olympics. And with Houston, there will be, I would think, minutes and opportunity available. They gave him a contract with a lot of incentives in there that have to do with playing time and opportunity. So this is like the last chance, you know, for me, you know, when it comes to what Exum can be in the NBA, you know, with his size, with his length and his speed, maybe something clicks for him in his late 20s.

You know, he's 26 now. Maybe something clicks. I don't have a lot of stock left in Dante Ex-M. I don't own much property on the island, but I still have, you know, a small condo near the beach that I've talked to some realtors about just in case I put it on sale. But I do have property on Ex-M Island. I do. Wow.

That is shocking. I do. I mean, I've heard people. I've heard people kiss up. We're a lottery players only. I mean, is this just because that we get so many emails from like down under? Yes, this is in Australia. I look through every, yes, it is.

I looked through every draft since 2013 and 2014 was the oldest I could find. Oh, then you're going to love mine. Do you want me to start with the oldest guy I have on this? And you're going to say, I'm going to let you jump me right off the bat. but I chose, like I was just telling you, you try to find these players that not even the own fan base likes. And there are going to be people out there that go, oh, that's ridiculous, that's not an island.

Come on. But this player, I would venture to say, might be the least popular player in the NBA right now. And that is Ben's, Simmons. Oh, come on. This doesn't count. Yes. Yes. Yes, it does. Yes, it does. Yes, it does count. It does, it does it does it does it does it does it does it does it does it does? Do you see. Did you see today people are talking about like a Ben Simmons for John Walters? Oh my God. Come on. Let's be serious. There's 30 fan bases. How many fan bases? How many fan bases? would you estimate would want to trade some of their favorite players off their team for Ben Simmons. Not many. Not many?

You know, you know, the teams, I went through this the other night. So then I, there is an island. Admit there's an island. Yeah, like there's an island for every player. No, but this is a real legitimate island that I still. That's a Ponzi scheme. No, it's not. I love Vince.

Hey, I think Ben Simmons out. standing basketball player and everybody, the pendulum has swung so far that nobody, nobody wants him. Listen, you know what somebody said to me the other day? You know what someone said to me? You've, you're fair to Ben Simmons. Do you know how many? No, me, like me, they said to me, you're fair to Ben Simmons. Oh, they should have said it about me. For years, I saw it in my mentions. And for years, somebody, I've always been the guy that like, you're a Ben Simmons hater saying he shoots of the wrong hands, saying this and that, blah, blah, blah, blah. Now I'm, I'm the guy who's fair to Ben Simmons.

So, so yes, you're right. You're right. The pendulum has swung too far. You're 100% right about that. Yeah. And so, okay, all right. I'll give you, I'll give you the, the definition that you get happy. If people, if the pendulum is swung so far that people are now agreeing with you, that's way too far.

Okay. That's fair. That's fair. And for what it's worth, the teams that I think would make some sense for Simmons. Oh. And this is like, when I say some sense, I mean like a little ince, weency bit of sense. Orlando, New York, Minnesota, Clippers, Indiana, Dallas, Boston, and then Houston, who has already mentioned Cleveland as well.

Like, those are the teams that I think makes sense. And FC Barcelona also. You left them. According to people who are hating on Ben Simmons. Nobody wants him. That's the thing. Do you know why nobody wants him, though? Like it's understandable why a lot of teams don't want him, though, is because it's the fear.

It's like I said earlier in September. It's the fear that he comes to your team and that he and Clutch are like, we want him to be the guy. We want him to be Magic Johnson. We want him to be the guy with the ball in his hands because that's who he is. That's what he's got to be. When in reality, most teams love the idea of Ben Simmons. They love the idea of Ben Simmons being like a supercharged version. of Draymond Green.

I've said it a hundred times over the years that that's the best version of Ben Simmons. So in that sense, Chris, I'm on Ben Simmons Island too with you because I believe if he were traded to Golden State or if he were traded to Portland, like you could see that version of Ben where he can play winning basketball with a great point guard, where he can create for them and just not be the primary guy. You could see that version of Ben. It's just a matter of if it's going to end up happening.

And in those teams that I listed that make even a little bit of sense. I didn't mention Portland because everybody's talking about them already. But, you know, I could see him fitting on a number of those franchises with the personnel if they have or he's just worth the gamble. All right. I still have faith in him being one of the best players in the NBA. I really did. One of the best in the NBA. Yes.

I think that's situational, you know. I do not think that he has made his last all NBA team is what I would say. And you've got to be one of the top six guards to do. it. So that's what I'd say. Let's do this snake draft since mine was a bit controversial. And this next guy that I am going to say, you could count it as my first one if you want, if you don't accept Ben Simmons. And I, there will be some people out there again that jump me. Again, these are all lottery guys. And I'm not going to pick somebody that sucks. Okay. Because I'm done. I did that two years ago. These guys are all out of the lead.

guy. Who's your guy? The reason I know that everybody's out on this guy is because you know I'm a sports card collector. Is it a James Wiseman or something like that? I'm a sports cards collector and I will tell you that these cards were so expensive and now you can get them for nothing. Literally nothing. Tyler Hero. Really? Those are cheap right now. If you like Tyler Hero, you could go buy every damn rookie card and the autographs and everything. Oh, for nothing. Yeah. Yeah. The ones that hate. me the most look just like me? What did that mean? I just Googled his name. Bluegrass girl, but she got big dreams. Tyler Hero.

I just Googled his name. He just became a father last week. What? Yeah, Tyler Hero just became a dad. Wait, is it the Instagram model? Yeah, I think so. No. Katia Henry.

Katia Henry. Katia Elise. Yes. Yep. So now he's a, he's a father. How about that? Now he's going to get that dad energy on the court, a good time of the buy, right? Oh, my goodness.

Maybe this will center him and focus him. Amazing rookie year, scored over 30 in the Easter conference finals game, for goodness sakes. It's like, what, 19 year old, something like that. And it just felt like people jumped off after he had a down second year. And we've talked about this a lot, Kevin. I really do feel like these first and second year guys that they have had it much more difficult than guys in years past

because in many cases, there was a group of guys that didn't even play the NCAA tournament. Now, of course, he got to the year before. But, you know, you come into the league and you finish the season out, playing in a weird circumstance at the bubble, then you have a short off season, and then your second year in the league,

you played like every other day because you didn't start the season until Christmas and you played every other day. And I think that you are going to get better versions of a lot of first, second and third year players this upcoming year because of how goofy the last two seasons have been. And so I'm still in on hero. but I know that that island has been abandoned during that finals run he was as valuable as you could get in that rookie class in terms cards you could go get any rookie card for nothing

truly truly did uh did you see the video of the girl crashed in her car when he was signing autographs yes yeah that's pretty funny right she forgot to put it into park and just rolled into a wall man if she

Hey, hey, if she only knew, you could just buy one for five bucks on eBay. Should have told her. Oh, my God. Damn girl. You sign on autographs, taking selfies and all that somewhere. Yeah, I don't know what the damage to your car was. And I guess you can't put a price on meeting the guy. Hopefully he or somebody, you know, hopefully insurance covered that for her.

I don't know. Insurance companies are tough, aren't they, man? They want all these receipts and everything. She caught on video. I don't know. Poor girl. That stinks. I got a, I got Zach Collins.

Oh, well, okay. So we did go about this different because I said I wasn't going to take any hoodie that stunk. So, yeah, we did go about this very differently. So with Zach Collins, the only argument is the only argument is this. He's just been in a scooter for four years. That's the argument with Zach Collins. is that he hasn't played.

He's been in street clothes. When I saw him at Momo Fuku in Vegas at Summer League in August, he still had the scooter, Chris. Wait, was he? Oh, I thought you were going to say he was your waiter. No. No, he still had the scooter. And that's worrisome that in August 2021,

two months before the season, one month before training camp, he still had the knee scooter. Maybe he's just lazy. Maybe it's just, I don't want to walk him. I don't know, man. Why are you putting him on this island list? Because I didn't think we're picking good players. All right.

Well, whatever. I mean, like, I got Zach Hollinson list. The fact is, is that if things work out, if things work out, a big, big massive if he could be a guy, a seven-footer who's shooting threes for you, who can pass a little bit, who could theoretically play versatile defense. That's what he was entering the 2017 draft. It's not what he's been in the NBA. It's probably not what he's going to be.

But he's on my list anyway, because I thought the criteria was the guys. Okay. No. Hey, look, I can play your game. You want to do injured seven footers? Let's do the snake. Let's do the snake draft. I got my next pick.

Let's just get, let's just get Wendell Carter out of the way here. Oh, I like it. Okay. Do you have one of no car as well? I'm with you. Okay. Wendell Carter Jr. Okay.

Wendell Carter Jr. It's another guy who's had injuries. You know, he had some good moments with Orlando last season. Still hasn't quite extended his shooting range in the way that I would have hoped for from him. But he shot better in Chicago than he did in Orlando. Yeah. I mean,

he hasn't really shot that well from anywhere, unfortunately. But, you know, he's, he's had it tough. You know, he had Hoyberg and Boylan his rookie year. He had Boylan his rookie year.

He had Boylan his second. season and then he got traded to Orlando last year. So, you know, with him, maybe some continuity and all that could help. Let me tell you something. A, I'm a huge fan. And I think there's a lot there. And I think he's an outstanding basketball player. B, he's like 22 years old.

He was young. Yeah, he is young. He's only 22. Yeah. C, I firmly believe Suggs is the kind of player that makes you better. and I think Suggs could have a profound impact on him specifically. I do. I think Suggs is the kind of guy that can make Wendell Carter the best version of himself.

How about Bamba? Can we rope him into this discussion? Do you have any hope for Bamba in this situation? We cannot rope him into it. I mean, I knew you. I'm serious. He's only 23. And he's been in the doghouse for three years under Clifford,

who insisted on playing Kim Birch. So they can win. Clifford. It's ridiculous. There's so much better off without Steve Clifford. It's unbelievable.

Steve Clifford's a good basketball coach. It wasn't a, it's not a good basketball coach for that, for that. But like, what makes a good basketball coach? No, he is a,

no, it just depends on what your goals are. He is a squeeze every win out of what you give. Yeah, they squeezed out a lot of wins last year. 21 and 51, 33 and 40 the year before. No, they bailed on the season last year. I mean, they traded Vucci, Maine.

They traded Aaron Gordon. I'm just a Bomba defender. I'm just salty. I'm very salty. Well, you need Bamba to be a defender. All right. I raise your Zach Collins, Marvin Bagley. He is not.

I'm not on that island with you, Chris, unfortunately. Okay, look. I love Marvin Bagley coming out. I loved him. I've never acted like I didn't love him. And one of the things that I wrote years ago was if a guy doesn't work out, you blame the coach, which you just gave a perfect example of that, or you blame the crappy organization. And that's the reason you were wrong. It's somebody else's fault. and I believe that wholeheartedly and it was not a terrible evaluation. Marvin Bagley is still an extremely good basketball player

that has been in a miserable situation and I hope he gets out of it and I hope they move him and he can go and find a new lease on life. But he has been so

injury riddled. He has never anytime he starts to get going, it collapses again. I mean, you can go look at his numbers and I know people are going to pull up clips and say, oh, he's a bad defender and whatever. He's one of the worst defenders in basketball. He is not. Yes, he is.

Outrageous. You could do, you could pull clips of anybody. I could find you 10 LeBron clips and I could say this is the worst defender in basketball. And that would be really misleading to do. Yeah. It's not misleaning. It's harder to find the good clips. Look, here's what I'm going to say.

This guy is a profound. He can't pass either. He can't pass, can't make quick decisions on the floor. Marvin Bagley is going to be one of the all-time greats. I will be the only man left on his island. And I am still there firmly planted on Marvin Bagley, the third island. And if we've learned anything, don't judge these guys on their first couple of years in the league. His story is yet to be written.

I will fully admit, the intro and the first few chapters is absolutely, is terrible. And if you didn't make it to the part where it gets to the good part, I will understand. But I am powering through it to get to the good part. That's fair. That's fair. And the same way I can relate because in the same way that I still believe in Moamba, you still believe in Marvin Bagel.

That's no. Two different calibers of player. Two different calibre. Okay. Okay. We disagree in the caliber of player. All I'm saying is the same logic that you have from Marvin Bagley is the same logic that I have for Bobava.

Coaching, situation, injuries, all these reasons. It's just we disagree on the player evaluation aspect. That's fine. That's fine. That's fine. Okay. So we can disagree while agreeing. Look at that. This will be season

six for us. We've gone up. You're ready for you ready for Bonafide Homer pick? Yeah. Give it to me. Jared Culver. Oh, God. Oh, yeah. You see Minnesota.

Timberwolves fans jump down you. You, I'm so tired of hear from Timberwolves fan. You got a backup point guard, and they're mad that we didn't spend 10 minutes talking about it. You got Patrick Beverly, okay? You didn't get freaking Chris Paul. That's right. We didn't talk about Beverly that episode. Yeah, you didn't trade for Chris Paul.

You traded for Patrick Beverly, the one that pushed Chris Paul. You traded for the guy that pushed Chris Paul, not Chris Paul. And you're mad that we didn't talk about it all that long. Jared Culver. Drafted sixth overall. Sixth. He's played less than a hundred NBA basketball games. You can't determine dick in less than 100 basketball games.

And now he moves on to Memphis, great player development place to land if it's going to take. And he was stuck. He played for a couple different coaches. They went and signed, you know, they got Malik Beasley, brought him in. They got Russell came in. They had, you know, they made that trade. Then they, you know, they got the number one pick. They lucked into that and they took Anthony Edwards.

And the next thing you know, Jared Culvers, you know, nowhere to be seen. And it's like, all right, like you got bypassed, man. And, you know, the kid lost all his confidence completely. and like I said, he's played less than 100 NBA games. I was high on him coming out of the draft. Now I'm going to get to see him regularly. I am still a believer. If I was a believer in what he could become,

I don't think it's fair for me to determine what he is in less than 100 games. And then I would say that if Jared Culver got traded somewhere else. I promise you I would. I would. No one would believe that, but I would. I mean, you know, I was high on Colbert. I was high on him coming out of the draft.

I liked him. And I still think that whatever he's going to become, that his past performance is not going to dictate, you know, dictate, you know, what his future is. And, you know, again, it's less than 100 games. He's going to be amazing, guaranteed. I'm going to, I'm not his eyelid. I'm going to pick a guy who I don't,

think should be on this list. But I'm adding him onto this list because of our criteria. And also, I saw a tweet last week. And I forget who said it. I forget who tweeted out this and all that. But I saw something out there that was like critical of Darius Garland, calling him an average guard. Oh.

And I forget who said it. But I think it was another podcast. And Cavs fans were disappointed about it. And, you know, if there's a perception of Darius Garland being average or, or you know, not good. It's wrong. It's wrong. And Darius Garland, I think year three could be massive for him with Evan Mobley,

with Okoro and year two, some of the other pieces that Cleveland team has. We'll see if they make any changes with Sexton, but a move or not, to me, Darius Garland is a guy that could go boom this season. I view him as somebody that could be like a fantasy basketball sleeper. I view him as somebody that's like a good investment for like top shot or a trading car. or whatever else, because I think Darius Garland at 21 years old, he'll turn 22 this season. The stuff he showed last year in Cleveland as a playmaker with some outstanding passes in transition in the half court and pick and roll with his scoring ability to hit spot-up threes,

to hit threes up the dribble. He can get anywhere he wants on the court. This guy figured it out last year. And there's an opportunity for him to maybe go boom this season with Cleveland, which is a very nice young corn. He's right there at the center of it as the guy who's going to be handling the ball more than anybody. So Darius Garland to me doesn't belong on this

list, but I firmly am on Darius Garland Island, and I am happily looking for more real estate on that island. I agree with you. I mean, he's special player. He's special talent. You know, it's funny. So much feel. So much feel. I actually oddly had a conversation about him

last week. I met this it was actually a college football player was telling me that they they played basketball when they were in high school and they played for Ensworth, which is a big private school in Nashville, Tennessee. It's where James Wiseman went before he had moved up to Memphis.

And that he was telling me that his junior year, they went, they had a great team. They had only lost a couple games. And they went to the state championship and they played a, against Darius Garland's team, and he's like, they beat us by like 35.

He was unstoppable. Like, and this was like a great high school basketball team. I don't know if Wiseman was on the team at that time or not, but he was telling me this story about playing against Garland in high school and just what an absolute force of nature he was. And now, like, you know, now, it's funny, you say that because he's in Cleveland. he's not on national TV, right? So he can't get forgotten outside of hardcore basketball fans.

But those numbers, his numbers were good last year. I mean, it's on a losing team, but the numbers are good and the percentages were good. And he can really handle and he can really shoot. Yeah. Really shoot. He makes some outstanding highlight plays. And like when I say it could go boom, I mean, like I think because he plays on a small market in Cleveland, the team that doesn't get a lot of eyeballs, like his cards and top shots,

and all that won't necessarily go up a lot in value. But I think in the eyes of NBA fans and his status as a player, that could change significantly with how people perceive him. Because if you watch that guy, and I think Jackson Frank, who does a lot of great work writing about the NBA podcasting, does a lot of green rooms as well. Jackson Frank last week,

I remember him tweeting out this Darius Garland full court pass. And then, like, he did something in the half court afterwards, a floater inside over a rim protected. There was just an amazing sequence, an incredible sequence that he had. And it's just a reminder of the talent level of Darius Garland. I think Cleveland has, I mean, there's a lot of good young cores in the NBA. Cleveland has one of the better ones. And they're a candidate for my next bright future team, which I'm not sure when we'll,

I haven't pinned that down yet, Chris. You haven't decided. I haven't decided yet who it is, you know, but the cabs are a candidate. You want so badly to say Orlando. Come on, Ken. No, I don't. you don't i don't think i don't think i don't think i'd put them over cleveland oh really i don't know i'm not sure need to dive a little deeper take some time

they need a need to be to dive deep i'll tell you this man you got kevin love your future's bright um great teammate good good veteran leader all right i'm gonna give you a weird one and oh oh i i got to do my wrap around snake draft right here for this is your last one yeah my last one. No surprise here. Who do you think it is, Chris? Who do you think? Who have I not mentioned? Oh, Killian. Yeah, my worst ranking probably of all time. Killian Hayes. But

I'm still a believer in Killian Hayes. I think it's foolish to give up on any player, especially him after his rookie season in which he defended at a high level as a rookie. Showed good passing ability as a rookie. Good pick and roll instincts.

As a rookie. He couldn't score. he couldn't put the ball in the basket. Maybe he'll develop that in his 20s. He was 19 last year. You're talking about like, like I could see him becoming like a rotation guy in the NBA. You don't think he's got a chance to be a star still. I think he has a chance.

I still think he has a chance to be a very, very good player, whether that means star or that means all star, whether that means just a guy who makes, you know, isn't like fans get mad about when they don't make the all-star team. Right? whether he's that type of guy, I still think Killingian Hayes has a chance to be very, very good. And like I said,

will that scoring ability develop? I don't know, dude. It might not. He might be one of those guys where it's like, you know, million dollar move, 10 cent finish. He might be that type throughout his career where he shows off the ability

to do hard and stepbacks, but he can't put the ball through the hoop. But I'm still a believer in him. And I think as he matures mentally and physically, you just like it's really just about the jump shot like that's the main thing if the jumper develops everything else is going to develop after that that's good because you know what this is going to be a perfect way to end this because Hayes was a seventh pick in the draft and the guy that I am saying is on the island which again you want to go and you want to if you believe in him you could go

and rack up on stuff cheap right now I promise you that on sale now and it is is the guy that was taken right after Killian. Obie Topping. Obie Topping. That's a good one. I said this at the end of the season. I said, look,

there's a lot of people I hear, and they've already decided what this guy is, what this guy is going to be. And yeah, and seeing anything. He plays on a team where power forward,

you know, takes all the shots and plays 48 minutes a game. You know, and he's played for Tom Timito, for good of sakes, right? Like, I mean, the book hasn't even begun on him.

He is a freakish athlete, a freakish athlete who will learn how to defend better. He's not going to be able to get on the court if he doesn't defend under Tom Tibodeau. But I think, I don't think they were wrong in their talent evaluation on him. I think he has, I think he has a chance to be a. special talent. I really do. Because he has, he has some stuff that just cannot be replicated in terms of linked

athleticism, you know, you know, he's quick off the jump too. He is, I think he could, I think he could really find a role in the NBA, especially as a finisher around the rim. And again,

you know, you kind of determine like, oh, here's what he did his rookie year. and determine, you know, it's very hard to project out. But I think what we've learned is it's taking these big guys a little bit longer. You know, even when you and I were doing this, you look at that draft. And I goof with you about Bamba.

But look, Mo Bamba's career is like right now, he's played three years in the league. I don't know. I'll be honest with you, I wouldn't give up on any of those bigs that were taken. I wouldn't give up on Bagley. I wouldn't give up on Jaron Jackson. I wouldn't give up on Carter. On Maker. I'd give up on him.

I'm kidding. Papayanas. Yeah. No. I'm saying those like those young ones that have been drafted like in the top 10 though, I do think the learning curve is a little bit harder for the big guys now. I do. You know, you just saw Aiton become somebody that people weren't thinking that it was an outrage,

that he was taking number one. And that was when he got with Chris Paul, you know, that altered his career in a massive way this past year. And if Chris Paul never ends up in Phoenix, who knows what we think about DeAndre Aiton right now? Who knows if they're talking about a match. And fit and opportunity. There are so many variables that play into the success and the failure of NBA players or for anybody in anything, no matter what they do for that matter. in basketball for that matter having a guy like a chris paul that changes what the role is for a big man and what the opportunity is for a big man that's why like with ben simmons relating it to that

conversation earlier the situation he could find himself in post trade could totally change the way in which he is utilized and the way in which we perceive him with what he's capable of um i also just think he's got a bad rap i do yeah it's so tough they were they were a shot of way from having a chance and maybe being in the NBA finals when they had J. Bultler. By the way, the year after the bubble year, he wasn't in the mix and they got their ass kicked without him. Like he does affect winning. He does. With his defense, he does. Yeah. And I just think he needs a dynamic guard alongside him. That's what I think. That makes you forget that he's not having to take the last shot.

And I'll tell you what, I mean, the flip side of this is, and this has been the whole thing with the Sixers for many years now, it can work with it. Embeded and Simmons, it's just an imperfect fit with their two best players. And I think if, let's say Simmons were flipped for a guard and, you know, if Simmons got to play with the Damien Lord and if the call him got to play with Joelle Abed, you could see the best version of Joelle Abed, an even better version. Yeah. Having a guy like that.

But I mean, because Embed, because Abed also has a head of guy that can run high pick and roll for him and can take trees off the bounce. I love Embed. Ambid probably would have an MVP if he stayed healthy, the whole year. gear last year. He was unbelievable. But I mean, again, he's gotten no blood. It's all about Ben Simmons not taking that shot. Never mind, Joel Embed was doing nothing in the second halfs of games. He was doing nothing in those games. He just got off the hook completely. He really did. I mean, it wasn't totally healthy at that point. He never is. I know. And that's part of it.

But listen, this is, this is the thing. I have always viewed Ben, Simmons as superstar insurance. Always, because if Joel Labeed were to ever suffer a catastrophic injury,

which you hope never happens, but if he did, you could pivot to building around Ben Simmons. Or if he were out even just for

a season, you could pivot to building your rotations and your lineups and your moves, your signings around Ben Simmons. If you lose that,

and this is why the Sixers are right to hold out and ask for a lot, you need to retain the ability to change on the fly like that because with Embed I love the guy like how can you not love

Joelle Ambide like everybody has to love Joelle Lebed unless you're going against him in the playoffs or you'd want your team to win but with with Embeded health and durability are always going to be part of it it's always part of it with him he needs a guy who can carry the load Ben Simmons isn't that guy he's not that guy right now in that situation he needs a guard or a wing

like you said they had Butler before having somebody that can shoot off the dribble that that's going to be the priority. Or maybe Maxie can turn into that, but that might take years before it can happen. I like him too. When it's gotten to the point where today, there's a frigging thing out there like,

oh, the rockets are interested, including a package with John Wall. I'm like, are you freaking kidding? What are we talking about? It's pretty funny, right? Good God. I mean, is it 2000 and, is it 2012?

What are we doing? Yeah, I'm not sure. I'm not sure about that. making any sense for Philadelphia. Who knows? I have to give a heck of a lot more with John Wall to do that. Yeah.

Kevin, it is always a pleasure. Your list is astonishingly great, so impressive. Oh, so is yours, Chris. Just absolutely unbelievable. I'm glad that you are, people can send us, look,

the listeners, you obviously did great with this picking his ownia and Kevin Knox a couple of years ago, so we're ready to be embarrassed. We've made it a little bit easier by not taking as many players that there might be no chance of salvaging. So these islands will be a little more crowded to say the least. But look, we're going to do a mailbag on Friday. One last one last one because by the next week we're going to be talking about preseason stuff and rosters and about how these teams are kind of shaping up and what they look like for the first time when we get to see them in the preseason.

So for Friday, we are going to do one last mailbag for the offseason. Give them that address, Kev. NBA Mailbag at gmail.com. And email us there with some questions about basketball, some life questions, whatever it is. We'll answer those on Friday. All right. We will talk to you on Friday. Thank you to our executive producer, Sasha Ashall, as always.

And Kev, I'll talk to you later this week. Looking forward to it.